Advancement (Conversations 1974)

Expressions researched:
"advancement" |"advancements"

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query: advancements or advancement not "advance* civilization*"@5 not "spiritual advancement"@3 not "material advancement"@3

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 7, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...although it appears that he's very stern. But he's friend.

Devotee: The criminal thinks that "Oh, he's my enemy."

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Devotee: The criminal thinks, "He's my enemy."

Prabhupāda: Yes. (Break) They have achieved their advancement of knowledge by seeing a crack in the moon. You know that? Yes. They are now researching, "What is this crack?" For seeing the crack, they spend so much money.

Bali Mardana: They are so foolish.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Bali Mardana: When I was in Hawaii I gave a lecture at one Catholic college, and the priest in charge, he was asking me if in our philosophy we believe that animals have a soul. He's so foolish...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Bali Mardana: The Christians are so foolish, even though they have big learned positions, they do not understand that the animal also has a soul.

Prabhupāda: You told? In that meeting?

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Eh? Mental speculation. When it is dry... So dryness also, sometimes it is, "Oh, it is very dry, bad." And again, say dry, we shall say, "Oh, today is very good." It is simply mental speculation.

Devotee: It is like wet stool and dry stool. It is still stool.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. (Chuckles) Yes, that is the example. The dry part of the stool, they say, "Oh, this part is very nice." He forgets that, after all, it is stool. So what is the dry or moist? Just like they are making scientific advancement. But the death is there. So what is the use of your advancement or no advancement? One who has not advanced in science, he'll also die. And you'll also die, advanced. Then what is the good? You cannot protect yourself from death. Then what is the meaning of this "good"? "This is good. This is advancement, and this is not advancement."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But the distinction, the good and bad...

Prabhupāda: That is your distinction. You have made such distinction.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think that depends on the consciousness of the individual.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Relativity, relativity, law of Relativity. What is, what is food for one is death for other, the same thing. So how you can say the food is good or bad? Is it not? "One man's food, another man's poison." So how you can distinguish this is food or poison? One man will say, "No, it is food." Another man will say, "It is poison." So how you'll distinguish? So this good and bad is simply mental speculation. Because it is in the material platform, there is nothing good. Everything is bad. Otherwise why Kṛṣṇa said, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). In the name of "dharma," so many rascaldom is going on. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya. It is not dharma. And Bhāgavata says, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra: (SB 1.1.2) "This cheating type of religious system is rejected from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam." All so-called religions, they're simply cheating. Cheating. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavaḥ. Kaitavaḥ means cheating. Everything is cheating. They say, "We are advancing." What you are advancing? The problem, birth-death, is there. So what is the meaning of your advancement? Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2).

Prajāpati: This is the only means, then, to get off that manorathena.

Prabhupāda: Manorathena, yes. Manorathena means if you remain on that platform, then you have to reject again. Just they are doing, the so-called scientists, philosophers. They are putting forward some theory, and after some time they reject it. So if you remain on the mental platform, then this business of accepting and rejecting will go on. You'll never come to a conclusion. Therefore one has to rise to the spiritual platform. That is nityaḥ śāśvato 'yam, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). That is eternal, everlasting.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: It is happening because there is discharge of semina, night pollution. But where is that girl? Is it not dream? So similarly this is also dream. You are having the effect of truthfulness, but it is a dream. Māyā... Therefore it is called māyā-sukhāya. The same thing, that at night you are dreaming you are embracing nice beautiful girl, as there is no such thing, similarly, in the daytime also, whatever advancement you are making, this is also like that. Māyā-sukhāya. We are happy, we are dreaming, "This process will make me happy. This process will make me happy." But the whole process is dream only. You are taking this day-dream as reality because the duration is long. At night, when you dream, the duration is for half an hour. And this is for twelve hours, or more than that. That is the difference. It is a twelve hours' dream, and that is half an hour dream. But actually, both of them are dream. And because it is twelve hours' dream, you are taking it as, accepting it as real. That is called illusion.

Bahulāśva: Illusion.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are making distinction between animal and ourself, but we're forgetting, we are forgetting, the animal also will die and I will also die. So where is my advancement? Will you remain? You'll also die. So where is your advancement upon animals? That is stated in śāstra: āhāra-nidra-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca samānam etat paśubhir narāṇām. Business—eating, sleeping, sex-life and defending—this is also animal's business. And you are also doing the same. How you are distinct from animal? You'll die. The animal will die. But if you say, "I'll die after one hundred years, and this ant will die after one hour," that does not mean that you are in reality. It is a question of time. Just like this huge universe. It will be all be destroyed. As your body will be destroyed, this will be destroyed, annihilation, dissolution. Nature's way, everything will be dissolved. So therefore it is dream. It is a long duration dream. That's all. Nothing else. But the advantage is that even in this dream you can realize the reality, God. That is the... So if you don't take advantage of this dream, then you are missing.

Hanumān: So I am half asleep.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is the... Therefore Vedas says, uttiṣṭhata. "Get up, get up, get up!" Jāgṛta. "Become awakened." Prāpya varaṁ nibodhata. "Now you have got the opportunity. Utilize it." This is Vedic injunction. Uttiṣṭhata jāgṛta prāpya varaṁ nibodhata. This is Vedic in... Tamasi mā jyotir gama. These are Vedic injunctions. So we are preaching the same thing, that "Reality is here, Kṛṣṇa. Don't remain in this darkness. Come to this consciousness." That is our preaching. Tamasi mā jyotir gama. (break) ...experienced the sunshine, bright day, and this gloomy day. So when you are in darkness, we must have to admit, "There is light." Because darkness means absence of light. So as we are in the darkness of this material existence, there must be something life of light. That is spiritual world. That is reality. (break) ...ahaṁ brahmāsmi. "Oh, I don't belong to this darkness, darkness atmosphere. I belong to the light atmosphere." That is self-realization. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi.

brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā

na śocati na kāṅkṣati

samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu

mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām

(BG 18.54)

This is brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20) stage. Just like this is a cakra. I am walking on this wheel. But I am thinking I am advancing. What is this advancement? It is already there. Just like they are advancing in science and they must remain here. They are trying for so many years to go to the Moon planet, and no result. (laughs) The same, same thing. "Now we are going to the moon planet." But coming again. That's all. So saṁsāra-cakra. Just like the dog. Dog is sometimes barking: "Gata-gata-gata-gata!" The master says, "Come on." Immediately come. He thinks that "I have got freedom. Let me jump over." You see. So we are thinking like that. We are under the māyā's clutches. "Come on, come on here." Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). He's under the reins of prakṛti. He cannot go anywhere. (pause) (break)

Morning Walk -- January 15, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Simply they're rascals and who are bewildered by rascals, they are also rascals. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). He's an animal, and their work is appreciated by another animal. The so-called scientists' advancement of knowledge is appreciated by another rascal, not any intelligent man. We can appreciate, but when they're godless, we kick him out. Just see. This is the... Now, this is a solid thing. How it grows and how the water comes? Now it will not grow. Because (it is) detached. But if it remains attached, it will grow. So wherefrom the water is coming?

Bali Mardana: From the ground.

Prabhupāda: And you'll find that it is well protected cell, and you find two pieces of cāpāṭi and one glass of water, ready. No need of cooking. Yes. You simply take. Take the water and take the pulp and eat pulp and the glass of water. That's all. Your meal is finished; luncheon is finished. You don't require.

Sudāmā: The atheist class of men, they are thinking "Well, we are watering. We are giving the water with the hose. We are giving water in the tree. Just like this man is cutting the lawn. So we are maintaining it." They are not thinking that Kṛṣṇa is giving the water.

Prabhupāda: Then wherefrom water comes? You rascal, wherefrom you got the water?

Sudāmā: They say, "It's too much to think about."

Morning Walk -- January 22, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: That you don't know, but if somebody knows... That is not a proof, that because you cannot see. That is not proof.

Nitāi: No. They just... They make this theory based on the fact that the most advanced that they've seen so far is man.

Prabhupāda: Who is advanced? Nobody is advanced unless one has seen or known God. That is actually advancement. They're putting so many theories... I have not seen. Why shall I believe you? You are talking so many nonsense which is not in my experience. Why shall I believe you? Hm?

Nitāi: Well, then they, then they'll tell you that, "Well, come and we'll show you this experiment."

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Nitāi: We show you these experiments, and then you can see too.

Prabhupāda: What is that experience? You show, make experiment, that from the monkey's body a man is coming. Show me the experiment. Nobody has seen the experiment.

Nitāi: Well, in that case they say that the monkey looks so much like man; everything is practically there.

Prabhupāda: Well, that doesn't mean... Every man looks like another man; that does not mean he has come from him. He has got a different father.

Nitāi: One experiment that they've come up with is that they study the embryo within the womb.

Morning Walk -- January 23, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Good morning. (japa) (break) ...jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. How one bird or flower should be beautiful, nicely decorated? Kṛṣṇa gives His energy only a little and everything is there. Svā-bhāvikī jñāna... Just as if a very good artist has painted nicely. Svā-bhāvikī-jñāna-bala-kriyā ca. How to do it, that Kṛṣṇa knows. That is His inconceivable energy.

Sudāmā: So then like the sunset; that is also Kṛṣṇa's artistry?

Prabhupāda: Everywhere. (break) ...māṁ paśyati sarvatra sarvaṁ ca mayi paśyati. That is advancement of Kṛṣṇa consciousness: everywhere one sees Kṛṣṇa, and in Kṛṣṇa he sees everything. Therefore he sees Kṛṣṇa only. He sees nothing. And the atheist will say, "Where is Kṛṣṇa?" And advanced devotee will say, "Everywhere Kṛṣṇa, antar bahiḥ, inside and outside." Nato nāṭya dharo yathā (?).

Sudāmā: Then it is a devotee's misconception if he thinks that Kṛṣṇa is outside everywhere, but He's not in the temple. Because I remember...

Prabhupāda: He's not a devotee, he's a rascal.

Sudāmā: Yes, because in one of your... in Nectar of Devotion, you explain about some Māyāvādīs. Sometimes they think that Kṛṣṇa is not in the Deity but He is everywhere else.

Prabhupāda: That is his rascaldom. And these ships require huge quantities of petrol.

Bali Mardana: Many ships now, they are lying idle in the ports for lack of petrol. (end)

Room Conversation -- February 13, 1974, Vrndavana:

Guru dāsa: Nim Karoli. Sorry. Similarly, when we forget who we are, we think we're one with God, but when we remember, we're His bhakta, we're His servant.

Guest (1): Yes, that's also true. It's a fact.

Guru dāsa: When Hanumān, he's a great bhakta. We should follow in his footsteps. "One who says he is My devotee, he is not My devotee. One who says he is a devotee of My devotee, he is My devotee." Very humble. Then we can make advancement (CC Madhya 13.80).

Guest (1): Mahārāja is teaching—you asked his teaching—these things are the same really, I, things that he's told me. But he said that the whole universe was God, and that you should never hurt anyone, that you should serve...

Prabhupāda: How you can serve whole universe?

Guest (1): I beg your pardon.

Prabhupāda: How you can serve whole universe?

Guest (1): How can you serve the whole universe?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): You love the beings that you find yourself...

Prabhupāda: You love? To whom you love?

Morning Walk -- February 22, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And because now it is developed, it is so developed that there is no food. It is so developed that there is no food. One devotee of goddess Durgā, he was a worshiper of goddess Durgā. So Mother Durgā was asking, "My dear son, you are happy?" "Oh Mother! In all respects. Except in two things: there is no food, there is no cloth. That's all. Otherwise I am very happy."

Guest (1): So the main thing is not that.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) So your, your advancement means advancement in everything, but there is no food, there is no cloth. That's all. This is the advancement.

Dr. Patel: When there was no rain here last year... No? Year before last. (Hindi) The men in the medical college were talking, "Why the hell do you want rain?" I said "What nonsense, you are talking?" "We don't want. Our fields are in America. The rain is falling there all right." You know, jokingly. (laughs) There is no other... "Why do you want rain here?" Because people...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Rain, rain...

Dr. Patel: Yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14).

Prabhupāda: Yes. But they won't, won't perform yajña.

Dr. Patel: No. And yajña means there is service to the humanity...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. That is not...

Dr. Patel: "That is giving service to Kṛṣṇa," you'll say. "But humanity is Kṛṣṇa," I say.

Room Conversation -- March 16, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: If he is wrong, that cannot... He will come out.

Harikeśa: Ah.

Prabhupāda: So the steps will be taken by the spiritual master. You cannot, do not try to rectify.

Harikeśa: Our advancement is the same?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Harikeśa: Our advancement...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harikeśa: ...is going on.

Prabhupāda: You follow, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2), gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ (CC Madhya 13.80), servant of the servants of the servant of, then this is our.

Guru dāsa: That's the consideration. Advancement is (indistinct). (break)

Harikeśa: I know I am making mistakes.

Prabhupāda: Why do you preach?

Harikeśa: That's my question.

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Very strong.

Pañcadraviḍa: (break) ...tops to gamble. That's part of the...

Prabhupāda: Gambling religion. Now here also, they are advertising gambling, this government. Deteriorating, the whole world is deteriorating and suffering. Suffering is increasing. Still they are so rascal, they cannot understand that what is the advancement. They have become so less intelligent.

Pañcadraviḍa: Usually, though, it is the children. They gamble for cookies and candy and things like this.

Prabhupāda: No, children they learn it from their parents. Otherwise they do not know. (break) ...by memory, by mercifulness... People are not so merciful now. Suppose in your presence somebody is being killed. You avoid to stand there. No more merciful. What to speak of the animals? If a man is killed, nobody will take care. I have heard it in America that if somebody is killed or attacked, nobody will go to help. Is it not?

Mahāṁsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So the mercifulness has gone. And what to speak of religiosity? That is completely gone. These things will reduce: mercifulness, religiosity, memory, bodily strength, and so many, eight, eight. They are mentioned in the Bhāgavata. Religious principles.

Pañcadraviḍa: And you were writing that it is just a little bit of truthfulness is left.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You secure dhātun from the tree. Ask them. The three dhātun they gave, that is finished. (break) ...water is full, one can take bath.

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He played also. (Hindi) We used to say chor chor kela: "Catch up the feet." (Hindi) (break) ...and wonderful things, as they are mentioned, they were all manufactured by the demons.

Dr. Patel: māyā.

Prabhupāda: No, no, these wonderful scientific advancement, they were done by the demons. So they are demons. These so-called scientist, they re all demons.

Dr. Patel: Palace of Pāṇḍavas were constructed by māyā.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: So they were all engineers.

Prabhupāda: No, no, engineer. Engineer are also demons, but he is no longer demon. Now doctors are demon. (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...land only for this beach.

Dr. Patel: But you are going away.

Prabhupāda: No, I am... (Dr. Patel laughs) I am here. (break) Very soon. (break) Living entities are there in the sand. How do they say there is no life in the moon? I cannot understand. What they are eating within the sand?

Dr. Patel: Not that, but our definition of life is, I mean, not really complete. It is not complete. We mean... Life means anything which, I mean, which breathes, which beats. That is all humbug. Everything is life, to tell the truth.

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: There was a cartoon. When I... One leader is approached for food, that "We are in scarcity of food." The leader says, "Of course, it is very difficult to assure you for food grains. But from next week you will have television." (laughter) Next week you will have television. So these improvements are going on, television, but they are starving. This is going on. Advancement of knowledge and learning is going on in discovering television, but there is no food. This is the mismanagement of the leaders. Dishonest. There is enough food. Punjab still produces food grains. Bengal still produces rice, but they are stocked by government men, and they are mishandling. They are lying on the station for dispatch, but they will not be dispatched. They are rotting. Rainy season spoiled the whole stock; still, they are not dispatched. Official: "There is no dispatch order. There is no wagons available." Simply mismanagement or bribe. This is going on. And people are suffering. How it is possible to purchase? Suppose India's income, the average income, is very poor. Suppose one man earns ten rupees a day, and if he has to purchase ten rupees simply rice for the family, ten..., what for others? Then he becomes dishonest. He wants to earn money by taking bribe in his own capacity. So bribing has become a custom. Anywhere you go, unless you bribe, you cannot get release. And they say that "Whatever salary we are getting, that is not sufficient. Our extra earning is by taking bribe." And now in the Western countries also the difficulty is arising. I do not know whether you are already, I mean to say, aware that so many boys, they are becoming hippies. They are reluctant to do anything. That is a very dangerous sign. If you... If unemployment, no engagement, that is not good for the country. Everyone should be employed. Everyone should be engaged in some service. That should be the policy of the government. And everyone should be happy, without any anxiety. That is good government. So many people unemployed, doing nothing, producing nothing. Is it not a problem?

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are animals. Yes. If they are sensible, they can understand, now, what is the difference. A dog is thinking, "I am very stout and strong dog." He has, on the basis of his body. And another man, a big American, thinks, "We are very big nation, powerful nation." So what is the difference between these? The basic principle is there, the bodily consciousness. Therefore it is animalism. Is it not? The basic principle has not changed. Suppose a pickpocket... The same story, Alexander the Great and the thief. He was arrested, and when he convinced him that "What is the difference between you and me? You have got good military strength. You are conquering. And I have got my knife and another thing. I am just going and plundering. So you are also plundering, I am plundering. Why you have caught me? What right you have got to punish me? Because we are the same. You are doing in a larger scale, I am doing in a small scale. That is the difference." So he was set free, "Yes." Alexander the Great, he was sensible man, "Yes, what I am doing? The same thing in a bigger scale that's all." So these rascal, actually, they are animals, but they are declaring advancement. What advancement? The same thing: eating, sleeping, sex and defending. That is animal... The dogs also do like that. They also eat, they also sleep, they have sex life. Now they are coming to the dog's life. A dog, just like street, they have sex life. They are coming, advance. This is advancement, that "We have become now pure dog. So long it was hidden, now we are open." This is the civilization, animal civilization.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Whatever they, others women, they may take lesson from them that, "If these woman are suffering or these men are suffering, why should we marry?" There is a Bengali proverb, dekhe sekhe and tekhe sekhe (?). One who is intelligent, he can see what is happening, he becomes cautious. And one, when actually experienced, then he becomes cautious. Less intelligent. So if it is not good, why you are marrying? Why you are induced by sex life? Stop it by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you devote yourself, the whole life, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness you will not be agitated by any sex life. And that is yad-avadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-pādāravinde. If one is actually advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he will deride, "Huh! Nonsense! What is this?" That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, advancement. The only remedy, prime remedy for all solution, is Kṛṣṇa conscious. That we have to say. So answers are all right or not?

Yogeśvara: No, very nice. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Our life is so nice. We are satisfied with eating Kṛṣṇa prasādam and chant whole day and night Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. What is the use of this industry and trade. And transport and politics. There is no need. Anartha. It is called anartha, unwanted things.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: This is all described. First of all, the first defect is that you are eternal spirit soul. Why you should be entangled with this material body? That is the first fault. That is anartha. I am spirit soul. Why shall I accept this material body? That is my basic principle of unwanted things. And to make solution how to get out of this material entanglement. And that is... Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). After leaving this body, now this is the last, and then I am not coming to this material world. How? Simply by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt, gurur na sa syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. The Bhāgavata says that "One should not become parent, father and mother, one should not become guru, one should not become friend, one should not become husband"—these are the guardians—"if one cannot release his dependent from this repetition of birth and death." This is civilization. This is civilization. Not that "I am now human being; I shall become demigod. Or I am dog, I shall become human being." The karmīs, they are thinking this is advancement. This is not advancement. Real advancement: no more accepting any material body. That is the real advancement. Just finish. This sense can come in human form of life, that "I have suffered so much. I have come through so many species of life. Now I have got sense." So the reply is there that mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvataṁ nāpnuvanti: (BG 8.15) "Anyone who comes to Me, he does not come again to this miserable condition of material existence." We should take advantage of this. That is human civilization. What is this human civilization? Jumping like dog, in a motorcar, that's all. This is not civilization. This is dog civilization, that's all. And actually what benefit they have derived? They are not satisfied. One man has got this car, and next year another car, another car. And the car manufacturer also giving fashion. "This is 1974 edition, this is 1975 edition." And they are earning money with hard labor. "All right, get a motorcar." And again, next year change. What is this civilization? No satisfaction. They do not know where is the point of satisfaction. It is dog civilization.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Why do you bring Kṛṣṇa here? This is all sense gratification. (laughter) But that is very good that even in talking this material, you remembered Kṛṣṇa. That is very good. You remember Kṛṣṇa. When childish playing, if you remember Kṛṣṇa's childhood, that is very good. That is very good. Some way or other, if you get the chance of remembering Kṛṣṇa, that is advancement.

Satsvarūpa: Even if the example is not so clear or good.

Prabhupāda: That doesn't matter. You remember Kṛṣṇa some way or other. Kṛṣṇa does not belong to this abominable material world, but it is benefit for you because you remembered Kṛṣṇa.

Yogeśvara: The manager of a large factory comes to us and says, "Well, here is my problem. My workers are striking for higher pay and no one is satisfied So what can I do?"

Prabhupāda: Yes, you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Yogeśvara: Well, he wants to know, "How can I apply that in my factory?"

Prabhupāda: You give us the in charge, make us in charge of the factory, we shall do it, and see how we can deal. You can do it. We shall introduce immediately kīrtana and give them prasādam. It will be solved. And give them lecture and philosophy. We can take. Let us have the charge. Then see how we can do. Or you follow our instruction. But that you will not. You want to exploit these poor fellows, and you are coming to us for solution. You first of all give up the spirit of exploiting. Then it will be solved. You have come to take our advice how to exploit them.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: So that enjoyment, eating, sleeping, mating, the animals are doing that. What other enjoyment you have got? The same thing, eating, sleeping, that's all. That can be done without this building. Even the animals, they very nicely sleep on the ground. They haven't got skyscraper building, but they have no disturbance in their sleeping. The birds are sleeping on the top of the tree very nicely. So what advancement you have made than the birds and the beasts? The business is the same.

Devotee: The Communists say that first we must feed the people, give the people the same rights, and after, we will give them a life of spiritual life, a life of...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But you cannot do that. Why there are so many hungry people all over the world? What you have done? There are thousands and thousands. Even in big, big cities like New York, why there are so many people lying on the street? Why the hippies are lying on the street, on the park? So what is the value of your, this proposal? You cannot stop it.

Devotee: Yeah, but they criticize us that we don't want to feed...

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: That's it. He is a dog actually, and he is thinking "That I am very advanced, civilized." This is the position. Because he has no knowledge. Without knowledge, there is no difference between dog and man. Dog is sleeping on the street very comfortably and you are sleeping on the top of the skyscraper building, taking three dozen pills. (laughter) So what is your civilization? Because for want of knowledge they cannot understand that "What is our actual position. The dog is an animal. He sleeps very comfortably on the street, and I have spent so much money, but I cannot sleep without this tranquilizer." So where is your advancement? Such a nonsense he is.

Devotee: No control.

Prabhupāda: No. No knowledge. That is the difficulty.

Dhanañjaya: And no ability even to enjoy.

Prabhupāda: No, because they have no knowledge. How we can enjoy life without knowledge? They also accept that for this comfortable situation they require knowledge. The engineering knowledge, this knowledge, that knowledge. But that knowledge is not sufficient. You require another knowledge. That you are lacking. You are deficient in that knowledge, self-realization. That is the defect. This knowledge will not help you. For eating, sleeping knowledge, this child, if I give him some eatable, immediately he knows the knowledge, "This is eatable. I shall capture it and put it in the mouth." It doesn't require any education. That is natural. If I love this child, he will respond. This knowledge is already there. Even a dog, "Tch, tch, tch, come on, come on," he will come. So for this eating, sleeping, mating, the knowledge is there in the animals, in the children. That doesn't require any advanced knowledge. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (To child) Come on. Come on, yes. Very intelligent. (laughing) Thank you very much.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: So where is equal rights? Even in Russia, there is managerial class and laborer class. Where are equal rights? Why there are managers? Yes. I have seen it. The managerial class and the laborer class. So where is equality? Why the managerial class? You know that? There must be required. The old women, they are sweeping the street. Why not Mr. Lenin come and sweep the street? Why he is sitting in a big palace and the poor woman has been engaged to sweep the street? Where is equality? What advancement they have made? We are following opiate. They are following opiate, Lenin's rascal's philosophy. That's all. That is also opiate. But where is equality? That is also opiate. You are advocating equality, but where there is a man manager and another man is working. So why you are accepting this nonsense philosophy being opiated by rascal Lenin?

Haihaya: They measure everything by the type of work.

Prabhupāda: It doesn't matter. If I become manager, I will pay for that. Suppose there is work as a... Would you like to work sweep the street or become manager? What shall I say? "No, no, I shall become manager." Why this mentality? Why he does not accept, "Yes, I shall sweep"?

Haihaya: Yes, but the point is that equal right is...

Prabhupāda: Where is equal right?

Haihaya: The same possibilities of education to everyone.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: No, no. Where is equal right? That is also with the capitalists also. The same thing, we divide. We divide that "This is brāhmaṇa, this is kṣatriya, this is vaiśya, this is śūdra." We also divide, and you also divide. Then where is the advancement in philosophy?

Haihaya: Because they think that capitalists, they don't give the same possibilities to earn...

Prabhupāda: They think, but we see practically: Why there is difference between this manager and the laborer class? Will the dictator, the manager will take the same salary as the sweeper is taking? Why there is difference? Why the manager is given more preference for living condition? Where is equality? First of all show me. Simply talking will not do.

Dhanañjaya: Actually, the only difference is that in the communist countries, religion is not allowed.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. But their philosophy that everyone is equal... Where is equality? There is no equality. Why you are talking nonsense? And in Moscow I have seen. So many people are walking, and others are going on motorcar. Why? why this difference? Why not everyone motorcar? Then what improvement you have made? You are simply talking. Why this difference? Nobody wants to walk. Why thousands of people walking on the street, and some of them are going on motorcar? Why? Where is the equality?

Haihaya: Śrīla Prabhupāda, they said that equality came by... No, it's not equal, but they must give the same possibilities to everyone.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That they have got experience. Therefore daily they are founding so many parties, manufacturing so many means and plans and this and that, but they are not happy. But they are so fool, great fool, that in spite of being repeatedly baffled, still, punaḥ punaś carv..., the same thing, under different form. What is the difference between these rascal communists and capitalists? After all, they are animals. How they can make things, better arrangement? That is not possible. The only thing... This man will say, "Exploit others," and other man shall, "Give food to the others." What is there? Give food to the others or exploit—the same animal propensity. Where is the advancement? The capitalists are thinking, "Exploit others." The same thing, like animals. This dog, as soon as he saw the shadow of his own body with the food, he thought that "Let me capture that food." This is exploitation. And another will say "No, first of all give food." So they are fighting like this. So everyone's aim is that we shall remain within this material world and happy. Therefore gṛha-vratānām.

Satsvarūpa: If we can get enough to eat and sex, we will be happy.

Prabhupāda: That's all. And then they become impotent and go to the doctor, "Give me sex medicine." You see? Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). The same thing. Not at home sex, but "Let us go to the prostitute, go to the naked dance." They have no other ideas. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). These class of men cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. First of all, one must be in knowledge that "I am not anything of this material world. I am spirit soul. My happiness is in the spiritual world." Then he can be.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is giving you everything in right way so that you can save your time, you do not waste your time, and you can advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is required. We don't say that you stop eating. You eat. Take little Kṛṣṇa prasādam. We don't say that "Don't sleep." No, you sleep, but must rise early in the morning for maṅgala-ārati. This is our philo... Eating, sleeping, and sex. No, we don't say no sex life. Yes, you have sex life. Get your bona fide wife, live peacefully. And defense also, we have. We never say that you forego all these things. No, this is not our philosophy. But similarly, as much as you absolutely require, not more than that. The balance time, save for advancement. These people are simply engaged for eating, sleeping, mating. They have no time for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This condemned civilization must be stopped. Killing, killing civilization. The human being got the opportunity of getting out of this punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), repeatedly, and they are not being given the chance. They are being engaged more and more for sense gratification, viṣaya. Killing civilization. Jñāna-tapasā. Bahavo jñāna-tapasā pūtā mad-bhāvam āgatāḥ. By this process, bahavaḥ, many, by knowledge and tapasya. Pūtāḥ, purified, came back, back to home. Bahavo jñāna-tapasā pūtā mad-bhāvam āgatāḥ. Vīta-rāga-bhaya-krodhā man-mayā mām upāśritāḥ, bahavo jñāna-tapasā pūtā mām... (BG 4.10). What is that, last word?

Nitāi: Mad-bhāvam āgatāḥ.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Everyone is concocting some ideas, and they are going on as different organization. That's all. No standard idea. The standard idea is there in the Bhagavad-gītā, that cows should be given protection, go-rakṣya. Who is following this? Everyone is making plan how to kill cows in a more scientific way. This is going on. Who is taking the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā? Nobody is taking. Even in India where Bhagavad-gītā is originally, these rascals also not taking. And they have become so brainless. Therefore the whole human society is a dead society. And the dead society's dressing, decorating, is useless waste of time. That's all. Their education, their advancement... He has no brain. What is the use of education? That is said by Cāṇakya Paṇḍita, that snake is a snake. Do you think a snake decorated with a jewel on the hood is gentleman? Similarly, a man without brain, so-called education, is just like a jewel on the head of a serpent. Kim asau na bhayaṅkara. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita asks "Whether a snake with jewel on the head is not fearful? He is as much fearful as the other snake without the jewel." Similarly, if a human being has no brain, with his so-called education or no education, it is as good. The education has no value. He does not know what is good work, what is bad work, what is my aim of life, what is this body, what is the soul? If these things he does not know, then what is the value of his education? So the man is not satisfied?

Guru-gaurāṅga: He was in a hurry to get out.

Yogeśvara: Oh, yes. He asked me to excuse him to you. He had a meeting to go to.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They give some light.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: At night.

Prabhupāda: But when there is sunrise, what is the value of this?

Guru-gaurāṅga: (French)

Prabhupāda: So your all this physical scientific advancement will be like glowworms in the presence of the scientific arrangement of God.

Robert Gouiran: But the scientists know that science is not complete, but we try to do it as the nearest approach we could do.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no.

Robert Gouiran: Nobody claims to be complete.

Prabhupāda: It is just like the children. The children are trying to build castle on the sea beach of sand, very busy. Two, three hours, so long the father, mother is there, they're busy. But as soon as the father, mother goes, "Hey, come on," everything finished. So this scientific struggle is exactly like that, all childish, children's play. Therefore this word is used, prakṛti-sthāni karṣati: "The living entities, they are trying to create so many things, but it is simply struggle for existence." It has no value. The same example: a children is building castles, skyscraper building. They're thinking, "This is skyscraper building." But what is the value of it?

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Guṇānuvarṇanam.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Guṇānuvarṇanam. "Translation: Learned circles have positively concluded that the infallible purpose of the advancement of knowledge, namely, austerities, study of the Vedas, sacrifice, chanting of hymns and charity, culminates in the transcendental descriptions of the Lord, who is defined in choice poetry."

Prabhupāda: So if you have got scientific knowledge, you scientifically explain that God is the original source. Then your knowledge is perfect. What is the purport?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Human intellect is developed for advancement of learning in art, science, philosophy, physics, chemistry, psychology, economics, politics, etc. By culture of such knowledge the human society can attain perfection of life. This perfection of life culminates in the realization of the Supreme Being, Viṣṇu. The śruti therefore directs that those who are actually advanced in learning should aspire for the service of Lord Viṣṇu. Unfortunately persons who are enamored by the external beauty of viṣṇu-māyā do not understand that culmination of perfection or self-realization depends on Viṣṇu. Viṣṇu-māyā means sense enjoyment, which is transient and miserable. Those who are entrapped by viṣṇu-māyā utilize advancement of knowledge for sense enjoyment. Śrī Nārada Muni has explained that all paraphernalia of the cosmic universe is but an emanation from the Lord out of His different energies because the Lord has set in motion, by His inconceivable energy, the actions and reactions of the created manifestation. They have come to be out of His energy, they rest on His energy, and after annihilation they merge into Him. Nothing is, therefore, different from Him, but at the same time the Lord is always different from them.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: It may be temporary... That is struggle for existence. That is said here, manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi kartayam (?), they are concocting in the mind that "I am healing," but it is..., there is no healing.

Robert Gouiran: Yes.

Yogeśvara: You see, it's a question of perspective. In a suffering position you may say that some slight remedy is good, but you've not alleviated the suffering, the suffering is still going on. I remember one time Śrīla Prabhupāda, you gave this example, it was very wonderful. You were saying the United States, they're very proud, "We have so many hospitals with very nice equipment, very, very modern hospitals." But factually that's not advancement, that's suffering. It's an indication that there is suffering going on. So depending on your perspective...

Prabhupāda: Now they're saying we have increased so many beds, that means suffering has increased. They are thinking that they have done so good in this so many hospitals, and so many beds have been increased but that means suffering has increased. Otherwise why is the necessity of the beds and the hospitals?

Robert Gouiran: Yes. It's not because some American hospital are not healer that healing does not exist.

Prabhupāda: No, no, they're trying, everyone is trying to heal, American or Englishman or European, it doesn't matter. Everyone is trying but there is no healing. That is our point.

Guru-gaurāṅga: He's saying that there is a value to temporary healing.

Prabhupāda: That's a... Temporary value, we also give but we say there is no healing.

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: What is that freedom?

Yogeśvara: Illicit principles. Sinful principles.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) ...fig, there are thousands of seeds. And each seed contains a tree like that. And there are thousands of fruits, figs. Where is that chemist who can prepare such figs? One, in Delhi, when our festival was going on, we invited a big chemist. He admitted that "Our chemical advance, scientific advancement is like this." He explained very nicely. You were present?

Yogeśvara: Where?

Prabhupāda: In Delhi? He said that a man who has learned the art to, what is called, barking like dog, and people will go to see, purchasing ticket, ten rupees, twenty rupees, how the man is barking like a dog. And there are so many dogs barking. They won't see. This is our advancement. If a man has artificially learned how to bark, they'll go to see by paying fees. And the natural barking, they don't care. So these rascals are like that. They're trying to manufacture life. And so many life is coming by nature's process, millions and millions, that is no credit. And he's trying, utopian, he'll create life by chemical combination, he's given all credit, Nobel Prize: "Oh, here is a man." This is rascaldom. So what credit you'll get. Suppose if you can manufacture a man or an animal in the laboratory, where is your credit? There are many millions and millions are coming automatically. We are trying to give credit to Kṛṣṇa who is making all this creation.

Car Conversation on the way to Chateau -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Bhagavān: No. (more conversation with gas station attendant, etc.) (break) It is very known that the family is very strong, the family attachment is very strong. In America, people separate from the family very early. And in France, the family attachment is so strong. And many people, many families have come and asked us if we will be able to open school here for their children too. The interest is there. Everyone is afraid of this present system of schooling. Because they send their children there, and they come back so crazy.

Prabhupāda: Rogues. Rogues. After education, they are rogues only (pause) (break)

Bhagavān: ...take breakfast a little earlier. Is that O.K? And then this other gentleman can come with us and we can go faster that way. Because their truck is slow. (break) ...human being, those who have system of religion? Is that what makes them civilized? So the society today, even though it seems to be technologically advanced, can that society be called civilized? No.

Prabhupāda: So long technological advancement is meant for bodily comforts, so, so long one remains in the bodily concept of life, he's animal. (pause) (end)

Morning Walk -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Some people use the argument, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that by this advancement of technology, it will free us to think of philosophical.

Prabhupāda: They will free us. They will free us. Oh, that will never come. That will never come. Therefore they are called bahir-artha-māninaḥ. They are captivated by the external feature, and one who is leading them, he's also blind, and one who is following, he's also blind. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). They do not know that material laws are so strong that they are not free to do anything.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: They are thinking that the technology will free them.

Prabhupāda: Eh? No. No.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: The technology cannot...?

Prabhupāda: It will bind them.

Bhagavān: It simply creates newer problems.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Room Conversation with M. Lallier, noted French Poet -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Karandhara: The young man can understand that the degradation has occurred because of ignorance. The knowledge has been forgotten by which the upliftment or evolution can continue. So Prabhupāda and this movement, we're representing that knowledge. The knowledge has always been there, but it's been lost. It's been forgotten. So if that knowledge is represented, and made available, then that ignorance becomes dispelled, and the advancement can again go on.

M. Lallier: Yes, but degradation is not...? Is it not a law of nature?

Karandhara: Well, the law, the dynamic, or the dynamics of the law is the preponderance of godlessness.

Prabhupāda: No, the law is all right. Suppose one is degraded to become a criminal, thief, but he can be raised also to become a high, saintly person.

Karandhara: I think what he's asking, Prabhupāda, isn't the degradation... Because in the Vedas it outlines the ages, succeeding one another, and there're different characteristics, isn't it inevitable that it's going to occur, that the devolution occurs inevitably without anyone's being able to change it.

Prabhupāda: No. It is just like, winter season. The season is winter, but still, you can keep yourself warm. If you like, you can keep yourself in warm. So daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Nature's course is very strong, going on, according to the program, but mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te: "Anyone who surrenders unto Me, he's above this degradation." (French)

Yogeśvara: You tell Prabhupāda how he's (M. Lallier) helping with the translation work.

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Everything is worst. Sinful is sinful. Disease is disease. This body, either it is living or it is dead, it is not very important thing. Now see. And the whole world is after this body. Kṛṣṇa says, "The body, either dead or alive, it is not a subject matter for serious consideration." Now see. And what the world is going on? Simply for bodily... Body means senses. It is very difficult to the, for the western people to understand that body is not important thing; the soul is important thing. First of all, they do not know what is soul and then consideration of importance. This is their position. And if one cannot understand what is soul, what he will understand about God? Soul is a minute particle of God. If one cannot understand about this minute particle, then what he'll understand of the Supreme? In the laboratory, if you can test a little sample, just like take a little sea water, analyze, you chemically test, then you can understand what is the composition of the sea water. But if you have no knowledge even a small drop of sea water, how you'll understand the sea, what... That is their position. They do not understand even the sample of spirit soul, as we are. Simply they are trying to cover it. "There is no soul. There is no soul. Life is generated from matter." Although they cannot prove it. A fool's paradise. The fools, rascals, they are explaining the living force in some way, and other fools are accepting. This is the position of western countries, Europe and America. It is a fool's paradise. It is paradise, certainly. Very, very, big, big building and advancement, but all rascals and fools. Fool's paradise. (pause) And if you call a fool a fool, he'll be angry. Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopayati na śamyati (?). (pause) (break) ...so many, so much production, but if nature's law can stop this production, then the question of over-population. If the nature likes, it can produce three times, four times this production. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi (BG 3.27). After all, nature is producing. We do not know how to deal with nature. Therefore there is scarcity, and we say, "over-population." There is no question of over-population. There are so many hundreds and thousands of birds within this forest, other animals. They have no problems of over-population. Eh? (pause) All these men, who are living in these villages, so what is their means of livelihood? Agriculture or industry? Or service?

Room Conversation -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Devotee: Religious is automatically regulated sex life?

Prabhupāda: If it is religious life. If in the name of religion it is sinful life, that is another thing. Alright Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. samaḥ sarveṣu, mad-bhaktiṁ labhate. That is the stage of making advancement in devotional life. Equality. Equality is possible when we are on the platform of spiritual life. Otherwise the United Nations will never be able to unite. That is not possible. (indistinct) If they unite, if they try to unite on Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then. Otherwise.... We are all part and parcel of God. Somehow or other we are all differently dressed, although we are one. (indistinct) Now just like you are Canadian, I am Indian. (indistinct). There are crows, there are pigeons, there are sparrows (indistinct). Why they are not quarreling? Simply you are designated European, Indian and Canadian, German, so we have to give up this designation. Then they will be united. Otherwise, but they are very much proud of these designations. Therefore, bhakti means sarvopādhi vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). When one is completely free from designation. The designation is (indistinct). And the whole world is being ruled by designation, "I am Indian", (indistinct). Ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8).

Guest: There is a hierarchy of consciousness, of course, but it's not...

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) if I try to develop my consciousness with designation, it will not be (indistinct) It will not be effective at least in the matter of advancing spiritual consciousness. That you have to see (indistinct). Now in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement we have got men from all parts of the world, but they are not thinking in terms of their original national designation. They do not think that they are American or Indian or so on, or Hindu, Gujarati(?), kṣatriya.

Room Conversation -- June 28, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Yes. Formality, you should be respectful. Suppose your enemy—that is etiquette-comes in your room. But when he has come to your room, you should offer him respect: "Come on, come on. Sit down." That is etiquette. You know that "He's my enemy." That... The etiquette according to Vedic civilization: gṛhe śatrum api prāptaṁ viśvastam akuto-bhayam. Even your enemy comes at your home, you should treat with him in such a nice way that he'll forget that you are his enemy. Gṛhe śatrum... That was... Just like Jarāsandha and Bhīma. They, they wanted that "We want to fight with you..." (Break) Unless one of the kings died... (Break) ...a strong flavor, and it is continually, continues. So long it is alive, the flavor is there. So where is that art, where is that science? When you have... Where is that scientist amongst the human society? They are very much proud of their scientific advancement. Everything see, the flowers and leaves, so artistically, beautifully manufactured that simply by seeing them you'll feel pleased. How the man can manufacture it? And still, they are denying the existence of God and taking all the credit. How foolish they are. Mūḍha. (laughter) Yes. Yes, they have been described as mūḍha. Now, we are appreciating immediately Kṛṣṇa's craftsmanship, artistic sense, and we are glorifying. So that should be done by everyone. But the mūḍhas, they will not do that. They'll explain away. They'll never admit God's hand, intelligence, brain is there. They'll never admit. Neither they will explain how it is. They know it, how it is done. It has been done, or it is being done by somebody. That they do not know, who is that somebody. And when we say it is Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa says, "It is I am," they'll not agree. This is their position. They do not know who is that somebody, and when we say, "Here is that somebody," they'll not believe it. This is mūḍha. Therefore it is said... The mūḍha cannot explain all... And at the same time, will not accept the real thing. That is mūḍha. Mūḍha means rascal.

Room Conversation with Bishop Kelly -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That is also stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam by... That is also statement of Prahlāda Mahārāja, this boy devotee. He says, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum: (SB 7.5.31) "These foolish people, they do not know, what is their actual self-interest." So he says, "They do not know the actual self-interest is approaching God. That is real self-interest. But they do not know it." Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā (SB 7.5.31). "They have made their plan wrongly to become happy in this material world." Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). Bahir-artha-māninaḥ means external: "They have taken the external energy, the material world, as very important. And the leaders also, the so-called leaders... They are being led. The leaders, they are blind, and they are leading some other blind men without knowing that they cannot be happy in that way because he is under strict, stringent laws of nature, material nature." That Bhagavad-gītā therefore recommends,

daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī

mama māyā duratyayā

mām eva ye prapadyante

māyām etāṁ taranti te

(BG 7.14)

This is illusion, that they are under the control of the material nature... Just like the so-called foolish scientists. They don't care for God. They think by so-called scientific advancement they will progress..., all the problems will be solved. That is not possible. One of my students, he is double M.A. in chemistry and Ph.D. I asked him to discuss these things. He has written a small, a little book. Find out this book. Scientific Basis of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. Here, yes, this book. So he has very scientifically discussed. The scientists, so-called scientists, they are going to be as all in all... Hm...

Room Conversation with Bhurijana dasa and Disciples -- July 1, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: If you still cannot understand what is my instruction, then how can I help you? New students may say like that. You are intelligent, educated, old student. If you say... (long, silent pause) Our movement is that beginning of spiritual life is to surrender. If there is no surrendering, then it is no advance. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). This is the beginning. If that thing is lacking, there is no beginning even, what to speak of advancement. That is discussed already. Na siddhiṁ sa avāpnoti na sukhaṁ na paraṁ gatiḥ. This is the beginning of spiritual life. The word is called disciple. Disciple means who accept discipline. If there is no discipline, where is disciple? And "disciplic succession." We have used this word. Not that discipline is finished by one man, no. It will continue to go by succession. That is perfect.

evaṁ paramparā-prāptam

imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ

sa kāleneha (mahatā)

yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa

(BG 4.2)

Find out this verse. As soon as the disciplic succession is missing, then everything is lost.

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Read.

Satsvarūpa: Translation: "Learned circles have positively concluded that the infallible purpose of the advancement of knowledge, namely austerities, study of the Vedas, sacrifice, chanting of hymns and charity, culminates in the transcendental descriptions of the Lord, who is defined in choice poetry."

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Satsvarūpa: Human intellect is developed for advancement of learning in art, science, philosophy, physics, chemistry, psychology, economics, politics, etc. By culture of such knowledge the human society can attain perfection of life. This perfection of life culminates in the realization of the Supreme Being, Viṣṇu. The śruti therefore directs that those who are actually advanced in learning should aspire for the service of Lord Viṣṇu. Unfortunately persons who are enamored by the external beauty of viṣṇu-māyā do not understand that culmination of perfection or self-realization depends on Viṣṇu. Viṣṇu-māyā means sense enjoyment, which is transient and miserable. Those who are entrapped by viṣṇu-māyā utilize advancement of knowledge for sense enjoyment. Śrī Nārada Muni has explained that all paraphernalia of the cosmic universe is but an emanation from the Lord out of His different energies because the Lord has set in motion, by His inconceivable energy, the actions and reactions of the created manifestation. They have come to be out of His energy, they rest on His energy, and after annihilation they merge into Him. Nothing is, therefore, different from Him, but at the same time the Lord is always different from them.

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No, actually we are pledged to give something substantial to the human society. This is our mission. We are not that group, that showing some magic and take some fees and... It is not our business. We have got so many literatures full of treasurehouse of knowledge. We have to distribute that. Not bluffing, showing magic or this or that, miracles. No. We are not this. It is an institution for giving knowledge to the human society. The first beginning of knowledge is that at the present moment, people, although very much proud of their advancement of knowledge, he does not know what is the active principle of life.

Guest (2): Could we cover one more subject, sir, before we close, or do you have some...

Guest (1): I would like to ask about the writings and where they came from and so on, but you go first.

Guest (2): You should read the book. I have a very good friend, a brāhmaṇa friend in the Indian Atomic Energy Commission. How do you view the development of the potential for nuclear explosions in India?

Prabhupāda: Yes, from the revealed scripture we can understand from... You have got the first part of Bhāgavatam?

Cāru: Yes, right here.

Prabhupāda: The Aśvatthāmā released the brahmāstra?

Satsvarūpa: That's in three I think.