Prabhupāda: (break) So if you are not independent, what is the value of your thinking independently?
Keśavalāl Trivedi: Absolutely none. None.
Prabhupāda: But everyone is thinking independently.
Keśavalāl Trivedi: Yes. That is māyā. That is the māyā, that which is not.
Prabhupāda: They are making plans, theories, "ism." What is the value of this?
Keśavalāl Trivedi: Absolutely none.
Prabhupāda: Therefore everything is becoming failure. So preach this truth to the world, that "You are all rascals. Why you are thinking independently?" Huh? "Why I am rascal?" "Because you are thinking independently. That is the proof that you are a rascal." Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Īśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhaḥ. And they are thinking independently.
Keśavalāl Trivedi: Baddha we have got, and still we are thinking...
Prabhupāda: Baddha-jīva, every moment he is under the strict laws of nature. Generally they think that.... They speak also. "I think." Do they not say? "I think," as if he is independently thinking. What you can think? Hm? Acyutānanda Mahārāja, why do they say, "I think," "In my opinion"? What is the value of your opinion?
Harikeśa: Well, I have a certain amount of experience, and with my intelligence and my mind and my scientific method, I can put all that together and come out with some practical solution which I can work on.
Prabhupāda: That you cannot, because you are not independent. Uru-damni baddhaḥ. If you are tied hands and legs with strong rope, how you can think of "I shall become free in this way. I shall become free...?" But your hands and legs are tied up, so why do you think foolishly that you shall become free in this way, you shall become free this way? First of all open this, the tightening knot; then you plan that "I shall become..." But there is no such chance. So what is the value of your thinking like that?
Harikeśa: Well, relatively speaking, it's better to do...
Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. Because you are so rascal, you do not know that "I cannot move even an inch and I am making plan." That is the proof that you are a rascal.
Keśavalāl Trivedi: Tena vinā tṛṇam api na calati. That is the way.
Harikeśa: But why are people in the capital...
Prabhupāda: Therefore we call them all rascals. That is our confirmation of our statement. Mūḍhas, you all rascals, without any exception. Hm? The other day the high-court judge, he's supposed to be the most intelligent person within this state, high-court judge, and he was talking so many nonsense.
Keśavalāl Trivedi: Because he thinks he knows, he does not know.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Keśavalāl Trivedi: One who thinks he knows...
Prabhupāda: Manyamāna, manyamāna. He is thinking he is very intelligent.
Acyutānanda: While he was saying that, I was thinking, "I hope I never have him for a judge."
Prabhupāda: You'll find everywhere such.
Acyutānanda: Ultimately he was saying, "It is not Kṛṣṇa or this. It is some 'something.' That is the reality."
Keśavalāl Trivedi: He was thinking that he was bringing about some synthesization.
Acyutānanda: Yes.