Prabhupāda: This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is composed of four different stages. The first stage is to understand the relationship with Godhead, or Kṛṣṇa. Because the conditioned souls at the present moment, they have forgotten self. They have forgotten their relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Actually the relationship is there, eternal, but under the influence of māyā he is thinking that "I am something of this material world," identifying himself with this body. So we have to awake them from that illusory existence, what he is not. The whole mistake of the modern status of life... I don't say modern civilization. This is coming up since the creation of this material world. Sometimes it is in greater degree and sometimes in lesser degree. In Satya-yuga the same condition, but in lesser degree. But in Kali-yuga the condition is in greater degree. So the first business is to awake the conditioned souls from their illusory position, that he is thinking, "I am this body and anything in relationship with this body is very important." Janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8). This is illusion. We speak of illusion, māyā. This is illusion, that "I am this body and anything in relation of this body..." I have got special relationship with certain woman, so I think, "She is my wife. I cannot do without her." Or another woman from whom I have taken birth, "She is my mother." Similarly father, similarly sons. In this way, country, society, at the most, humanity. That's all. But all these things are illusion because they are in bodily relationship. Yasyātmā-buddhiḥ kunape tri-dhātuke sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). Those who are passing on on this illusory condition of life, they are compared with the cows and the asses. So our first business is to wake up the general mass of people from this illusory condition of life. So Back to Godhead is specially meant for that purpose. We are pushing our Back to Godhead to the general mass of people to the first condition, first status of enlightenment. And then those who are becoming enlightened, coming forward, "Swamiji, or the society, please make me a member. Please initiate me," he is coming forward, understanding his position. So that is second stage, to train him how to awaken his, that dormant love of God. That is another stage, training. Sambandha abhidheya. Then, when he is actually in love of Godhead, then he can understand the higher status of loving exchange between Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa and the Vṛndāvana. This is third, third stage, yes. And the fourth stage is paramahaṁsa stage, who is always enjoying. Santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti... When one is completely merged in the ocean of love of Godhead, he will relish in any condition of life Kṛṣṇa, present. Kṛṣṇa present means, Kṛṣṇa present, His name present, His form present, His līlā present, His paraphernalia present. Everything. Kṛṣṇa is not alone. We are not impersonalist. As soon as we say, "Kṛṣṇa," Kṛṣṇa means with His name, fame, opulence, entourage, pastime, etc. So Back to Godhead generally deals in two stages of understanding, the, to awaken the relationship and to train them. Although our aim is... That is our aim, to come to the highest platform of loving exchange, but generally, we are dealing with the mass of people. Therefore our propaganda should be how to, by reasoning, by philosophy, by science, by argument, how to convince him that he is in illusory stage. These politicians, these scientists, these philosophers, they have no advanced knowledge except the human being. That's all. Their ultimate goal is that if they can do something, humanitarian work, welfare work to the... The Vivekananda, or the Aurobindo, or this, what is called, the Russell, or Romain Roland, and so many, they are coming. And the yogis, they are trying to be self-satisfied by meditation. But nobody is concerned with God, or Kṛṣṇa. Nobody is concerned. This is the position of the world. So under the circumstances, our first business is how to awaken people from this illusory condition, that he is thinking, "I am this body," or the most well-being is taking care of this body or bodily relationships. So we have to take out from that illusory condition. So that should be the policy of our Back to Godhead. And the, so far the editors are concerned, they are supposed to know all these conclusions. Now we have got two editors, Hayagrīva and Satsvarūpa. I believe both of you know the conclusion which I am trying to push on within this movement. So you should work cooperatively in such a way that you don't deviate from the policy, and conjointly, consulting together, so that I may be relieved from petty minor things. But if there is some difficulty, I am at your service. Now what is the difficulty at the present moment? (break)
Hayagrīva: So we want to discuss content first? I have a list. Do you have a list, Satsvarūpa?
Satsvarūpa: I have a different list.
Prabhupāda: And so far the article Hayagrīva written, it is very nice. It should be published. Yes. I have seen it.
Satsvarūpa: That means that we can make reference to the gopīs.
Prabhupāda: Oh, it is done. Gopīs are boycotted.
Satsvarūpa: No, gopīs are not boycotted.
Prabhupāda: The policy should be that the people may not understand gopīs like ordinary girls or like that. You should be careful to present the gopīs. It does not mean that "We shall not utter even the name of gopīs. We have taken vow to boycott the gopīs." No. They are our worshipable devotees. How we can avoid them?
Satsvarūpa: What about writing down "kissing the lips of Kṛṣṇa"?
Prabhupāda: No. That we should avoid. That we should avoid. But that is not abominable. According to time and circumstances... That thing I have described. The fact is fact. Just like when I am describing Kṛṣṇa's līlā—I writing Kṛṣṇa's life—so I cannot give up that portion of His life, when Kṛṣṇa is actually kissing the gopīs in rasa dance.
Satsvarūpa: But that's in the books. Not in the public...
Prabhupāda: Yes. So in such circumstances, of course, we can give. But as far as possible, very cautiously and very rarely we shall present. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's life we see that in public He never discussed about Kṛṣṇa's līlā with the gopīs. That was very confidential discussion amongst His own circle, Rāya Rāmaṇanda, Svarūpa Dāmodara, like that. And He inquired... Even a learned scholar, He discussed about the philosophy, that Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya. But when there was a great devotee like Rāmānanda Rāya, He relished gopīs', I mean to say, intimate behavior with Kṛṣṇa. So we should remember this, that public may misunderstand this. Therefore we have to present these things very cautiously, not very openly. They may misunderstand. But so far this article is concerned, that is nicely written. That is quite in order. So this should be published.
Hayagrīva: There is nothing specificially objectionable?
Prabhupāda: No, no. There is nothing.
Hayagrīva: Our process thus far has been to halve up the material about 50-50. He takes half, and I'll take a half, and that seems to be working fairly nicely.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But first thing is that when you are in the post of editors, you are supposed to know. But whenever there is some difficulty, either you get it solved by consulting amongst yourselves, or if it is not possible, then refer to me. That's all.