Prabhupāda: So the more you enthuse yourself with these six principles, patience, enthusiasm, then confidence, then engaging in the activities, keeping association with devotees and avoiding association with nondevotees. That is also another thing. Just like if you want to ignite a fire then the more the dry wood is, you get good fire. If you get wet wood, the fire is very difficult to burn. Therefore we should keep ourself dry from being wet by the association of nondevotees. That is also another process. You see. If you come to our class and go to some other class, some nightclub class, then it is counteracted immediately. You see. So you have to, if you want to ignite fire you must protect it from water. And if you ignite fire and pour water then what is the benefit? Nothing. So to make progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness you have to keep company with devotees. Similarly, you have to avoid the company of nondevotees.
Wood (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"wood"
|"woodcut"
|"woodcutter"
|"wooden"
|"woodfree"
|"woodland"
|"woodlike"
|"woodman"
|"woods"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Wood? It can't be.(?)
Kṛṣṇa dāsa: No. I'd cast it in gold.
Prabhupāda: Oh. This ivory?
Kṛṣṇa dāsa: Yes, that's ivory.
Prabhupāda: So what do you want to do?
Kṛṣṇa dāsa: That would be on the head of the flute.
Prabhupāda: Flute? Oh, nice.
Kṛṣṇa dāsa: Oh, the lion's all right.
Prabhupāda: Very good. Generally, on the head of the flute is given the mouth of the shark. Shark fish. You have seen shark? Like that... But that is also good.
Prabhupāda: Expert means whatever he is doing, he must do it very nicely That's all. Suppose you are sweeping this room. You can do it very nicely, to your best knowledge. That is expert. The people will say, "Oh, you have very nicely done." Any work you do, do it very nicely. That is expert. Don't do it haphazardly. To your best talent, to your best capacity, try to finish it very nicely, whatever it may be. You are entrusted with some work. Do it nicely. That is expert. If you think that you are unable to do that work, then whatever work you can do, you take. But do it nicely. That is expert. Don't imitate. "Oh, I have no capacity to work in that way, but I want to imitate. Oh, he is doing that. I shall do that." Don't do that. That is not expert. You take up what you can do very nicely and do it nicely. We have so many works. Kṛṣṇa is not that He is static. He is dynamic force. Just like Arjuna, he was not a Vedantist, he was not a brāhmaṇa, he was not a sannyāsī. He was householder. He was military man. But he knew his business, how to do it nicely. So you do your business nicely. That is expert. And when it is dovetailed in Kṛṣṇa, there is no gradation that this business is better and that business is lower because everything is for Kṛṣṇa. So that business becomes Kṛṣṇa. Do it nicely and Kṛṣṇa is satisfied. And that is your success. Avyāpare suvyaparam yo naraḥ kartum icchati, sa-mulo hanyate 'khila pārthiva vānaraḥ.(?) Expert. There is a very nice story in Sanskrit. A monkey. A monkey... You might have some experience, that sawmen, who cut wood? Sawmen. So a sawman was cutting wood by the saw.
Prabhupāda: Our process is to accept everything which conduces to develop Kṛṣṇa's love. So those methods are given by experienced ācāryas, that "You just follow." Just like when a child tries to walk, the mother gives some direction or some help in a wooden plank, that "You try to move in this way. You will learn how to walk," similarly, there are certain principles given by experienced ācāryas. If we follow those principles, then we can work or we can go to the perfection of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is not the method that is important. The real important is how to develop your love of Kṛṣṇa.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Cow, yes. And in Vedic literature you'll find, a man is... Richness of a man is estimated by the possession of grains and cows. Dhanyena dhanavān. If he has got sufficient quantity grain, then he's to be... Formerly, even still in India, when a daughter is offered to a family, they will go and see how many morais(?) there are. Grain stock. If he sees that he has five, six, big, big grain stock, then he can... "Oh, this is nice house." You see? "They can feed." So in India still, the arrangement is that every family has got at least two years grain in stock. You see? And cow at least one dozen. No economic problem. And actually, that is the fact. You keep cows and have sufficient grains, whole economic problem solved. Eating. And sleeping, you can take some wood and four pillars.
Kīrtanānanda: There has to have sufficient wood sawed up.
Allen Ginsberg: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Formerly, in Europe they were also living.
Allen Ginsberg: Man lived this way for 20,000 years, 30,000 years until the 19th Century.
Prabhupāda: So we have to live that. Plain living, high thinking. The necessities of this bodily existence, that should be minimized and not unhealthy. Healthy. To keep oneself fit. But the time should be utilized-develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness, spiritual life. Then his whole problem is solved. Here is the big man.
Hayagrīva: Gurudāsa has some very excellent pictures from the archives taken from books that were printed several hundreds of years ago, Bhagavad-gītā and some woodcuts of Nṛsiṁha, which would be considered quite artistic, but maybe we can send them to you to see if they meet your approval and maybe reproduce them.
Prabhupāda: No, whatever card, form, we get, unless we have got arrangement for worship... Of course, we can keep, but our, any form, wooden or stone, that should be worshiped.
Hayagrīva: These are photographs, these are pictures.
Prabhupāda: Oh, pictures. Then it is all right. All right. It is all right?
Satsvarūpa: Yes. That's all.
Prabhupāda: That's all. So now distribute prasādam. First of all, chant once more Hare Kṛṣṇa.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Karandhara: Made out of steel instead of wood?
Prabhupāda: Steel is cheaper?
Karandhara: No, steel is more. Wood is cheaper.
Prabhupāda: So steel is, I think, nice.
Karandhara: Okay. We'll look for one.
Prabhupāda: And one stove.
Karandhara: A small stove?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mohsin Hassan: There is another question many people like to know about. They visit the temples in Chicago and many temples all over the United States. They are fascinated in the ritual things, the ara..., during the offering pūjā to the Deities and especially this initiation service. I would like to record the meaning of these ritual things because it's very important to explain in great detail about it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is, this is essential for advancing in spiritual consciousness. Just like kindergarten system, the children are given some wooden, I mean, some plans to form some A, B and C like that, (indistinct). So this not like, exactly like the (indistinct) system. This system is introduced by great ācāryas, authorities. So we have to follow. In the beginning we have no love for Kṛṣṇa, so this process will help how to invoke his love for Kṛṣṇa. This is standard process.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: In every respect.
Sudāmā: The president seemed very interested, somewhat, in our philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Hm. He's a nice gentleman. (pause) They are still satisfied in wooden house?
Sudāmā: The Japanese people?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Sudāmā: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Practically our sales are improving only for their printing. Their printing is very attractive, I think.
Prabhupāda: ...because you have got material eyes. Because your, you have got your material eyes, you cannot see the spiritual form. Therefore He kindly appears to be in a material body so that you can see. This is the point. Because He has kindly made Himself just fit for your seeing, that does not mean He is..., that He has material body. Just like President Nixon, if he kindly comes to your house, it does not mean that his position and your position is the same. It is his kindness, out of love, he may come to your house, but that does not mean he is on the same level with you. Similarly, because we cannot see with our present eyes what is Kṛṣṇa, therefore Kṛṣṇa appears before us as painting, as made of stone, as made of wood. And Kṛṣṇa is not different from these paintings and wood because everything is Kṛṣṇa.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: The same, it has grown green, and vegetation. Now the same wood is there. Why it is not coming now? Let scientists explain this.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That simply shows how ignorant the understanding is.
Prabhupāda: Therefore we say rascals, simply.
Karandhara: Well they would say the chemical composition has been changed.
Prabhupāda: All right, give the chemicals. You are now advanced in knowing the chemicals. Inject the chemicals.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they never talk about the soul, the nature of the soul, the consciousness existing within the living.
Prabhupāda: No, because there is consciousness, therefore the living being can create. Because I am conscious, I am thinking of marrying, begetting children. Because I am conscious. And because there is no consciousness, therefore this wood cannot think that he'll beget. The original consciousness, in the Vedas, it is said: eko bahu syām. God says: "I'll become many," so because there is consciousness, therefore He's saying that: "I shall become many." Without consciousness, there is no question of by-products. (Pause) Now they are supplying water to these green trees. Why they do not supply to that wood, and get it green?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: 'Cause from experience they know that it is not going to grow.
Prabhupāda: That means nonsense, that there is something else. Because the same tree, now it is growing, watering, but when it will be dead, you pour water... The medicine is the same. Why it is not doing now, and why it was doing formerly? Then what is the thing that is lacking in it?
Brahmānanda: Similarly, if there's a dead body and they just add some chemicals, that doesn't necessarily mean it will come alive again.
Prabhupāda: No. No. Chemicals are already there. If you say that the chemical is the cause of life, that chemicals are there. Because other lifes are coming. How do you say the chemical is wanting.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That is conservation of energy. Pūrṇam idam, pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate (Īśopaniṣad, Invocation).
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The understanding in science is that if I burn a piece of wood, that wood contains originally cellulose. So it has certain amount carbons, and a certain amount hydrogens. So if I burn it, that carbon will be converted to smaller molecules like carbon dioxide and water. So if I balance it, starting from the original cellulose, so I'll get a certain number of carbon atoms and hydrogens. So the matter is conserved. In other words, it is not lost. That is the understanding of the science.
Prabhupāda: No, we also, we also say. The energy, we take the sum total, material energy, that is conserved. It is displayed again. When there is annihilation, the whole energy goes back to Kṛṣṇa. Yānti māmikām, prakṛtiṁ yānti māmikām.
Prabhupāda: When the waves bring the food, so immediately they capture. So there is no scarcity of food, even for the small birds. And we are in scarcity. The scientist is manufacturing tablet.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They're going to convert the wood, the big woods to food also, by treating with the enzymes. That is one of the...
Prabhupāda: Programs.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: The wood that grows big, big trees, they say, in a few years, then these will be converted to food by treating with enzymes.
Prabhupāda: That means there will be no food, natural food. That is stated in Bhāgavata. You don't, you'll not get these grains, sugar, milk. This will be stopped. You have to eat woods. Yes. By your advancement of civilization, you have to eat woods.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So in any case, everything is controlled by the superior energy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That superior energy is life. A small seed of banyan tree fructifies; there is life, and the big tree comes. So many wood, so many twigs, so many things, huge quantity. Here is the proof. Life is the origin. According to our Vedic description, Brahmā is first created. He is life. Not that matter is first created, then Brahmā comes. No. And Brahmā comes from Viṣṇu. Viṣṇu is life, the supreme life. Then Brahmā creates this universe. That is Vedic version. What do you think?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So life is the origin.
Prabhupāda: By logic, by science. Anyway, that we have to make program. Because this is most misleading. The whole human society is affected by this misleading theory. We have to make program, go from place to place and invite all big men, all scientists. That program we have to make. We cannot allow this nonsense theory to go on. We must make something. Brahmānanda, how to make this? This is a fact, that, that life comes from life. In another sense life does not come. Life is existing. It is not exactly the word that life generates, no. Life is existing. The matter is generated. Matter is generating, and it stays for some time, again it is vanished. Just like this body. This body is born at a certain date, and it will be finished at a certain date. This is matter. (break) The wood was born at a certain date from the tree. It remains green for certain time.
Prabhupāda: Therefore we have to make very strong propaganda against this theory. Otherwise if you sleep only and take doctorate title, what is the use? You have to fight against these rascals. Make your soldier's party and start fighting against these rascals. No more toleration. No more silence. What is that sound?
Brahmānanda: Oh, it's a power saw. They are going to cut the wood.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: If we publish that the original source is life, then everybody has to accept it that the... Everybody has to accept Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our program. As soon as they agree, "Yes, life is...," then they have to accept Kṛṣṇa automatically. Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1). (break) Some of them are thinking that this is a saṅkīrtana party. We are saṅkīrtana party, undoubtedly. But they may not think "They are sentimentalists." They must know that we are scientists. Everywhere is the direction. These high waves, this big Pacific Ocean, they are also carrying out the direction of that Supreme life. Just like this airplane is floating. Is it floating without any direction?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: There is direction.
Prabhupāda: So therefore that nature's potency is acintya. That is beyond your calculation. That is our point. How nature is supplying, that you do not know. How there is very common thing. Just like from my body there are so many worms and germs will come out from the stool, there are so many worms. I am also producing life. I am not going to add some chemical. But the chemical is being supplied by me, by my potency. Otherwise, why so many worms are there in the stool? Hookworm and this worm and that worm? Sometimes from wood, what is called, termite? They come. And who is going to supply there chemical? And not from all wood. At a certain stage, it will come, without your adding chemicals.
Paramahaṁsa: The Buddhists also say that the body is like a house. You put the house together, you put the body together with chemicals. And when the bodies die, just like you take the house apart, all the wood, and then there is no more house... no more soul, no more life.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is called nirvāṇa. And with the chemicals you can build another house. Buddhists they do not give any information of the soul. That is Buddhism. What...? Oh, wet? (the ground?)
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, it's dry.
Paramahaṁsa: There's another very interesting factor that scientists, they state that matter is, or that there is, they dispute the fact that there's one soul within the body. There's a special kind of worm, it's an earthworm, that if you cut it in half, both parts will live.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Kṛṣṇa-kāntī: If someone looks at the Deity of Kṛṣṇa and thinks it's only stone or wood, for him it's still material?
Prabhupāda: That is his ignorance. How it can be material? The stone is also Kṛṣṇa's energy. Just like electricity energy is there everywhere. The electrician knows how to utilize it, how to take electricity. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is everywhere, even in the stone. The devotees know how to utilize stone to appreciate Kṛṣṇa. The devotees know. The rascal, they do not know. Because the devotee has no other view than Kṛṣṇa. Why stone should be without Kṛṣṇa? Here is Kṛṣṇa. That is real oneness. And the Māyāvādī philosopher they say oneness, but divide. This is stone, this is not Kṛṣṇa. Why second? Why you bring another thing?
Devotee: Good and bad, evil and...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Then... (break) ...We have not very many followers because we disagree with all rascals. We are not rascal. (break) Mūrkhāyopadeśo hi prakopāya na sāntāya (?). Mūrkha upadeśa... (Hindi) If you give some lessons to the rascal, he becomes angry. Payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam. If you ask a serpent, "Sir, you don't bite anyone, you take your here, milk, (indistinct)," the result will be he'll increase his venomous poison, and one day—"Phansss." (Sound imitating biting) You know the story? The kuta..., (?) the wood-cutter and the snake. He found a snake... Snake, if it is not killed, then if you simply beat and becomes dead, again he revives life. You know that?
Guest (1): Yes.
Prabhupāda: By air. So somebody killed, but he did not cut or burn. So he again, into life. So a wood-cutter, what is called? Who cuts trees and wood? He felt sympathetic. He took away the snake and kept at home and gave him some milk. So one day, when he was strong. (makes hissing sound) So he thought, "Oh, I gave you life, I gave you milk, and now you are trying to attack me?" He cut into pieces. Therefore in the śāstra it is said, modeta sādhur api vṛścika-sarpa-hatyā (SB 7.9.14). When Prahlāda Mahārāja's father was killed by Hiraṇya, I mean to say, Nṛsiṁha-deva, Prahlāda Mahārāja prayed, "Sir, You reduce Your anger now. Nobody is displeased with You because my father was just like a scorpion and snake, and when a scorpion and snake is killed, nobody's unhappy. So nobody is unhappy. Your action is not decried by anyone. Please now become in Your sense."
Prabhupāda: There are eight kinds of Deity. Picture is also Deity. Even the thinking of Kṛṣṇa within the mind, that is also Deity. But we are not so expert that within the mind we can worship the Deity. Just like yesterday I gave you the example, the brāhmaṇa. He was worshiping Deity within the mind. There was no temple, no Deity. But within the mind, everything he was doing. And he got salvation. So that depends on particular person, how to worship Deity. So far we are gross men. So we must have Deity worship. Otherwise you can worship Deity anywhere, sit down and think, just like this brāhmaṇa was thinking. Because Kṛṣṇa is available in any way, because He is everything. But the method must be there. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano (BG 7.4). So mind is also another material thing. So if you think of Kṛṣṇa's form within the body, mind, it is as good as you worship the Deity in the temples made of brass or wood or stone.
Prabhupāda: What you mean, "By nature"? That is another rascaldom. Why this wood is not moving by nature unless somebody comes and moves?
Prajāpati: They will say, "That is just the way things are."
Prabhupāda: But it stops. Your body is moving. But when it stops, you cannot make just the way it is going on.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They also say, "That is also by nature."
Prabhupāda: What is that nature? Nature means an instrument. Instrument, there must be one player. Nature is instrument. Just like this is an instrument. It is not recording by itself. When you push the button, then it works. You cannot say that "It is working by nature."
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Whether he is connected(?). Encourage him to the deity worship, Yamunā. What can we do? (pause) So wood has come?
Guru dāsa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So they're arranging for roofing?
Guru dāsa: Any for roof? No, this is for scaffolding. Actually, also some wood planks for the roof to be casted with the steel. So that plank wood has also come, and the (Hindi) for casting, uh, for scaffolding has also come. And Guṇārṇava spoke to Tejīyas on the telephone, and he said that within a few days the steel would be ready. So I'm also going to go to Delhi the day after tomorrow and check on the steel, and I think we'll bring it down and start.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Guru dāsa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: This is the position. "You wanted to become a sera. All right, you become a sera. Jump over some animal and immediately suck his blood." All facility is—the nails, the teeth-given. But is he happy? But everyone thinking that "If I could become like this, I would have been happy." So Kṛṣṇa gives all chance. "All right, you become this." This is transmigration. This is transmigration. (break) ...yathāndhair upa... We are thinking something like that, and Kṛṣṇa is giving us chance, "All right, you take this chance; you become like this." Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante (BG 4.11). But it will not make you happy. Therefore ultimately says, sarva-dharmān. "You give up all this rascaldom. What I speak, you can accept. That is your dharma." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam... (BG 18.66). That will be beneficial for you, the most confidential instruction. There is that story that one old woman, she was suffering. And she had to collect woods from the forest and sell in the market.
Prabhupāda: That is avidhi-pūrvakam. That is said, avidhi-pūrvakam, "Not in order."
- ye 'py anya-devatā-bhaktā
- yajanti śraddhānvitāḥ
- te 'pi mām eva kaunteya
- yajanty avidhi-pūrvakam
That is not vidhi. Vidhi is here. Śravaṇam kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam. The first word is Viṣṇu, of Viṣṇu, not of any other. So these are the demonstration of bhakti. Śravaṇam kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam arcanaṁ (SB 7.5.23). This is arcanā. Just like we perform in the morning, in the evening, at noon, arcā-vigraha. Viṣṇu, arcayam, Viṣṇu. It is not idol worship. Arcayaṁ viṣṇu-śilā-dhiḥ. If one thinks the arcā-mūrti, the worshipable Deity in the temple, as stone or as wood, arcayaṁ viṣṇu-śilā-dhiḥ guruṣu nara-matiḥ... To accept guru, in the paramparā system... All the gurus in the paramparā system... Evaṁ paramparā prāptam (BG 4.2). Nara-matiḥ, consider him as ordinary human being... In this way there is a list. Vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. A Vaiṣṇava, a devotee: "He is brāhmaṇa Vaiṣṇava. He is American Vaiṣṇava.
Prabhupāda: That is in Bengali. (break) ...tomara kukkura, bhuliya janaha more. (break)
Girirāja: "...all the residents of Vraja cut the gigantic body of Pūtanā into pieces and piled it up with wood for burning." (break)
Prabhupāda: Because she was killed by Kṛṣṇa, the whole body has become sanctified. So when the body was burned, there was good aroma. (break)
Girirāja: "...aroma was due to her being killed by Kṛṣṇa." (break)
Prabhupāda: ...that qualification, satya, always truthful.
Dr. Patel: But still, I mean personally, for myself, I don't have any taste for any food. In fact I have been taking all the food together just like the sannyāsīs and I don't have any taste. But still I have from within me I don't find that form of sex carrying out even though I am a scientist.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to say that "Sex life is so strong that even if I see one wooden female form I become excited."
Dr. Patel: I feel the same thing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is not unnatural. Caitanya Mahāprabhu tells this because this cannot be avoided. But by knowledge it can be avoided.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...wood is the strongest of all wood, this. (taps wood with cane or something) Very strong.
Pañcadraviḍa: What kind of wood is that?
Prabhupāda: It is guava tree.
Mahāṁsa: Guava, oh.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You know what is that lattu, we used to play? What is the English?
Mahāṁsa: Spinning?
Prabhupāda: Like a small, and we used to...
Mahāṁsa: Oh, top, a top. Like that. It's top.
Prabhupāda: Top. What is called, top?
Mahāṁsa: That is made of this, Prabhupāda? Oh. (laughs)
Prabhupāda: Very strong.
Prabhupāda: Madana-Mohana temple door?
Yamunā: Yes, putting the wooden bolt so I can't come inside. Yesterday this was. After leaving here for pravacana and going there, he had locked the gate. Then I knocked until he came.
Prabhupāda: Madana-Mohana Gosvāmī or Rādhā-Ramaṇa?
Yamunā: No, Madana-Mohana Gosvāmī.
Prabhupāda: So what business you have to go to Madana-Mohana temple at that time?
Yamunā: Madana-Mohana Gosvāmī of Rādhā-Dāmodara temple.
Prabhupāda: Ohhhh.
Yamunā: Gaurachand's other side, where we live.
Prabhupāda: Ah, Madana-Mohana Gosvāmī. I thought from Madana-Mohana temple.
Prabhupāda: So this problem will be solved as soon as we are localized. Petrol is required for transport, but if you are localized, there is no question of transport. You don't require petrol. Suppose in New Vrindaban, we stay, we don't go anywhere. Then where is the need of petrol?
Bhagavān: Petrol they also use for heating. And electricity.
Prabhupāda: No, heating. Heating we can do by wood. By nature.
Dhanañjaya: I remember, Śrīla Prabhupāda, you were saying that all we require is some oxen, and the oxen can carry.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The oxen will solve the problem of transport. That bullock cart. Just like Kṛṣṇa, when He was transferred from Gokula to Nandagrāma, so they took all the bullock carts
Bhagavān: What is our solution to heat? Wood?
Prabhupāda: Heat? Yes, wood. Sufficient.
Dhanañjaya: But they are saying they used all the wood for paper, so there's no more wood.
Prabhupāda: No, no. Paper you can make from grass, from cotton. So many other fibers. You don't require wood. You grow grass, sufficient quantity, and you make paper. Why should you publish so many rubbish literatures? Just like you were telling. The Times of India, the newspaper. (Sound of cars) This is the difficulty, walking on street. Therefore I wanted to go to the park. This is disturbance. So paper, if we don't produce unnecessary paper, there is no scarcity. From grass. You produce grass, huge quantity of grass, you will get paper. Cotton also. First-class paper. In India also, the rejected paper. From rejected paper you can get another paper also. But they throw it away in your country. Collect this rejected paper and again put it into paper. And why should you publish all rubbish literature? Simply publish Bhāgavata and Bhagavad-gītā, that's all. What is the use of this newspaper, nonsense newspaper, huge, huge quantity? So everything will be nice provided you become ideal. Live in community. Produce your own food. Even you can produce your own paper. You don't require printing of so many books. If there is one book, others can imitate, or copy. There is no need of printing. Formerly they used to do that.
Prabhupāda: Water skiing?
Yogeśvara: Yes. They stand on two pieces of wood and they hold on to a rope, and a fast boat pulls them along the water, like that.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Like, what you have? Surfer? Surfer?
Karandhara: Surfing. Yeah, similar.
Prabhupāda: Surfing. Surfing or suffering? (laughter) Unnecessarily, whole day and night they are... This is also another example of māyā. He is actually suffering, but he's thinking, enjoying. It always remains calm and quiet? There is no waves?
Guru-gaurāṅga: Sometimes. In the morning it's very calm.
Prabhupāda: But there cannot be any big waves.
Pṛthu Putra: (correcting Yogeśvara's translation) No, it's not question of body. If you receive an arrows. You have to translate clearly. If you receive an arrows, it doesn't matter if the arrow is made with wood, with iron, with anything. But just to take out the arrows of your body because that's the cause of suffering.
Prabhupāda: Why the GBC men are not interested in these talks?
Satsvarūpa: I'm interested, I was just doing secretary work.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. How you will do secretary work if you do not hear? These are the important philosophy is going on. Where is the other man Bhagavān dāsa? These important talks going on and you do not..., you think that you have learned everything. What is this?
Yogeśvara: This young gentleman's question is: if you are pierced with an arrow, it's not so much important to discuss how the arrow has got there. Just like you suggest we define the disease before we try to cure it.
Prabhupāda: No, we are not caring how the arrows, but you have got the arrows, you must take out the arrows.
Madhudviṣa: Sometimes a question is arisen that devotees are working hard to serve Kṛṣṇa, but sometimes they don't feel that they are working in love and devotion. They are doing the work, but sometimes...
Prabhupāda: Yes, in the beginning there is no love. Let him work on the direction of God's representative. (break) Therefore it has been warned, arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matir vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. The Deity of Viṣṇu, if one thinks, "This is made of stone; this is made of wood; this is made of metal," and spiritual master as ordinary human being, these are hellish considerations. Arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matiḥ. Guruṣu means the spiritual master. Nara-matiḥ, a ordinary human being. And vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. And Vaiṣṇava, a devotee—"Oh, he is brāhmaṇa Vaiṣṇava. He is European Vaiṣṇava.
Prabhupāda: So what will wealth do? If it does not appeal to the people, what wealth will do? In Chicago also, the Christians came with some wooden signboard. You have seen?
Bali Mardana: No, I didn't see.
Prabhupāda: "It is through Christ. It is through..." They were showing me. So that has been criticized by the newspapermen, that "Nobody cares for you." (laughter) Yes.
Bali Mardana: In New York also, we have to do negotiations very secretly because if they find out, they would not want to sell to us. They would be afraid.
Prabhupāda: Oh, New York, there was Ratha-yatra?
Bali Mardana: No, no. For purchasing the church.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guru-kṛpa: So they say, "Then my chanting is useless? So I should stop?" That's what they say.
Prabhupāda: No, not useless. But just like if you kindle fire and at the same time pour water, it will take long time. To kindle fire, make it dry, keep it dry. Then it will be very quickly successful. So you are committing offenses, at the same time chanting, so by chanting effect, you will come to that stage, but it will take time. If you want to be transferred to the spiritual world quickly, just like if you want to ignite the fire very quickly, you must keep it dry. If you simply put on the wet wood, then the fire will not be very powerful. It will be... It will take time. The fire will be blazing fire. Then it will dry. It will take... Better put dry wood to make it successful. This is the process. The effect of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa will not go in vain, but it will take time. Nāmnad balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ. Because he is thinking "By the strength of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, I can do anything, all sinful activities, and it will be adjusted," that is the greatest offense, not only offense, the greatest offense. Nāmnad balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ.
Prabhupāda: Therefore it is recommended that you live with devotees. But if you cannot agree with the devotees, you have got your own opinion, then you cannot make a new opinion so far the process is concerned. That must be followed. This is not good idea, that "Whatever I do, it is my independence, and I will chant." So that is good in sense that some day he will come to senses. Otherwise, for the time being, the chant is not very powerful. The fire in wet wood is not powerful. It will create some smoke. Although the fire is there. But if you put dry wood, immediately it will be blazing, and your business will be quickly done. This is intelligence. There are many examples. A patient suffering from disease, a doctor said, "You should do; you should not do." So if we follow "You should not do," then it becomes quickly recovered. But if he becomes under the treatment of the doctor at the same time he does all nonsense, then how it can be successful? It will take time. That is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. Pāpi jane aparādha āchāya pracūra. Pāpi jane aparādha āchāya... Offenseless chanting is the ultimate goal. In the beginning we are not offenseless, but by chanting, chanting, by practice, we gradually become offenseless. But this is necessary, that you should be offenseless.
Prabhupāda: That's all. You cannot produce petrol. Just like gold is already there, manufactured by God. You can make only different types of ornaments, that's all. Everything. This metal covering of this body, you have not produced this metal. They are like the carpenter. The carpenter has not produced the wood nor the metal instrument nor himself, but he is working. This body is also not produced by him. That is also made by Kṛṣṇa. His intelligence is also made by Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is giving the body. Kṛṣṇa is giving the intelligence. Kṛṣṇa is giving the wood. Kṛṣṇa is giving the instrument. Now, if you produce some furniture, to whom it will belong? To the carpenter or to the supplier of everything? Who will enjoy it? Who will enjoy it? If the carpenter claims that "I have done it," that is foolishness. You have done it as a worker, and you have been supplied with everything, your intelligence, your food, your instrument, your ingredient. Therefore the supplier should be the proprietor, not the carpenter. That is real philosophy.
Young man: All the religions that have been taught to me have not given me a clear view of God, a clear concept. They didn't seem to know it themself.
Prabhupāda: No, concept is there as you told me: "The God has made human being after His own image." Then we can get the idea that God is a person like a human being, He has got two hands, two legs, one head, because after His image we have been... Now, if we study ourself and increase that quality... Just like I am. I can eat. I can eat a certain amount of foodstuff, but God can also eat, but He can eat the whole universe. So eating is there. But the difference of eating is there also. I can create one airplane, but God has created very, very big airplanes like these planets, and they are floating in the sky without any power crisis. That is God's creation. Here we are floating the airplane or running the car with the power, petrol, given by God. You cannot manufacture petrol. Just like in your country there is enough stock of petrol. But you have not created it. So who has created? Your creative power is to drill and get the stock. So much creative power you have got. But you cannot create petrol. Then the Americans would not have come here to beg petrol. That is the difference. You can create something by the ingredients given by God. You can create this table. Because wood is given by God, the instrument is given by God, and the intelligence given by God, the hand is given by God, so in this way you create the table. Then whose property it will be, your property or God's property? Whose property? If I give you wood, instrument, your salary, and you create something, the ultimately the thing created, to whom it should belong? To you or to me?
Prabhupāda: I'll do. Mūḍhas. They are mūḍhas, means rascals, and they're exposing more and more that yes, they are mūḍhas. And another set of rascals, what is called, recognizing that "Yes, take this degree." Avyāpare suvyāparaṁ yo naraḥ kartum icchati sa mūḍhaḥ hanyate 'khilotpad iva vānaraḥ.(?) Vānara means monkey. Monkey... One monkey... there was a woodcutter. What is called, woodcutter?
Paramahaṁsa: Carpenter.
Devotee: Lumberjack.
Prabhupāda: Eh? Lumber...?
Sruta-kirti: Lumberjack.
Pañcadraviḍa: Cuts trees?
Prabhupāda: No, no. Formerly, with saw, they used to make planks from big, big... What is that?
Madhudviṣa: Sawmill?
Sruta-kirti: Carpenter.
Prabhupāda: Not... Sawmill is now. Formerly they were doing it-hand.
Prabhupāda: The same example, just like...
Jesuit: It still remains wood.
Prabhupāda: ...the church is made of matter, wood and stone, but it is spirit, because here there is nothing other business than God. So the real thing is, matter means forgetfulness of God. Read that, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ.
Prabhupāda: That's it. So God being all spirit, His energy is also spirit. His energy cannot be different. But in this material energy we forget God. Therefore it is called material. If we know that this wood is also energy of God, that is spiritual understanding. And if we think that wood has come independently from any other source, that is material. In the Vedānta-sūtra this is discussed in the beginning athāto brahma jijñāsā, to inquire about the Absolute Truth. The answer is janmādy asya yataḥ: (SB 1.1.1) "The Absolute Truth is that, or is the source of everything, Absolute Truth." So there are two things, material and spiritual. So both are coming from God. Just like darkness and light, two sides of the sun. So when there is light, we call day; when it is darkness, we call night. But they are simply two sides of the sun, the supreme light, or the material light. Similarly, material is darkness, and spiritual is light. Both sides. Sometime it is said "The spiritual is the front side of God, and material is the back side of God."
Siddha-svarūpa: No, they're not fire-proof.
Prabhupāda: No, they are concrete. There is no frame work.
Bali-mardana:. There is no wood.
Prabhupāda: No.
Siddha-svarūpa: Then how is it they had a fire in one? They had a fire in one recently.
Bali-mardana: Sometimes a fire starts in the kitchen or...
Prabhupāda: Kitchen, yes.
Bali-mardana: Because there's gas. And the furniture...
Prabhupāda: Not in the house. Wooden houses, they are just like match box. (break) ...Australia, they like cottage house. They don't like this skyscraper.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. He was so respectful to the brahminical culture. Many places it is described. Therefore His another name is namo brahmaṇya-devāya go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca, jagad-hitāya kṛṣṇāya govindāya. In the Kali-yuga the so-called brāhmaṇa means having a two cents thread. Not that brāhmaṇa. Vipratve sūtram eva ca. "To become a brāhmaṇa, just have a thread, sacred thread, and then do all nonsense." That kind of is not required. That is Kali-yuga brāhmaṇa: "I have got the sacred thread. I have become brāhmaṇa. Now I can do all nonsense. Never mind." That will not help. (break) ...giving sacred thread on the Pāñcarātriki-vidhi, the same principle. There is a little spot, fire. Fan it. The process of fanning. But the fanning is stopped; then small spot of fire also extinguished. It will have no effect because the small fire cannot do anything. It must be blazing fire. So our this process... We are accepting from the most fallen condition. Because he has little spark of fire—he wants to get Kṛṣṇa consciousness—so our process is: "Fan it." And then it must be blazing fire. But if you say that "Now that small fire is sufficient," that will not act. It must be blazing fire. A small fire is the potency. But potency should be brought to... Just like wood. There is fire. Everyone knows. But that will not serve your purpose. Fuel wood, unless there is fire... So there is fire, but it has to be increased. The wood... First of all set fire. Then there will be smoke. The smoke is also not fire. Smoke is another condition, symptom of fire, but smoke is not fire. The smoke must come into blazing fire. Then it can act.
Bahulāśva: That verse about how wood is better than raw earth and fire is better than wood?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Fire is better than smoke. Smoke is better than wood. Wood means tamo-guṇa. And smoke means rajo-guṇa, "Now it is coming." And fire means sattva-guṇa. So you have to go still above. That is called śuddha-sattva-guṇa. Here, simply blazing fire, it may also extinguish, but the platform where it is never extinguished, that is spiritual platform. That is spiritual. That is not material. Not only fire, but ever-blazing fire. That is spiritual platform. You cannot stop even, "Oh, here is now fire." It must be ever-blazing fire. Then it will act. But that is said when there is no chance of extinction. Nitya-yukta upāsate. That is stated in the Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā, nitya-yukta, ever-existing, eternal. That is wanted. Sometimes our devotees fall down because he has not come to that platform, ever-existing. Therefore the fire extinguished. That is possible, but everyone should be very, very careful that the fire may not be extinguished. Then again māyā. There are two things: Kṛṣṇa and māyā. If Kṛṣṇa fire is extinguished, then māyā, ignorance, darkness. Two things.
Jagadīśa: Lord Brahmā was attracted...
Prabhupāda: Yes, to his daughter. Just see. There is the example. Lord Śiva was attracted by the Mohinī-mūrti. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "Even if I see a wooden woman, I become attracted." (laughs) He is giving this from his..., to teach us that it is possible. So we shall go now? (break) (in car:) ...takes my advice, then I can keep her on the post and she can do greatest, service to India immediately. Immediately whole public will be her support.
Woman: I have just one more question, and that is also from an outsider's point of view. It appears to me that one of the most difficult aspects of Kṛṣṇa consciousness for someone to accept who's been brought up outside of that point of view is the Deities and the idea that they represent Kṛṣṇa. Could you talk a little bit about that?
Prabhupāda: Yes. At the present moment, because you are not trained up to see Kṛṣṇa, so Kṛṣṇa kindly appears before you as you can see. You can see wood, stone. You cannot see what is spirit. Even you don't see yourself. You are thinking, "I am this body." But you are spirit soul. You are seeing your father and mother daily, and when the father or mother dies, you cry. Why you are crying? "Now my father has gone." Where is your father gone? He is lying here. Why do you say he is gone? What is that thing which is gone? Why you say, "My father is gone," although lying on the bed? You have seen daily your father. Now you say, "My father is gone." So... But he is lying on the bed. So who has gone? What is your answer?
Prabhupāda: Therefore you cannot see the spirit, and God is Supreme Spirit. Therefore, to show kindness upon you, He has appeared just like wood and stone so that you can see.
Woman: Oh, I see.
Prabhupāda: He is everything. He is spirit and matter, everything. But you cannot see Him as spiritual identity. Therefore He has appeared in material form so that you can see. This is Deity. He is God, but you cannot see Him in His original spiritual form at the present moment. Therefore, out of His unbounded mercy, He has appeared before you just like made of wood and stone so that you can see.
Prabhupāda: What is the betterment?
Jagannātha-suta: "Yes, because years ago people would have to go out in the cold and chop a tree to get wood for fire. Now they simply turn the stove, and the fire is there."
Prabhupāda: That you say, that the wood was there and people were taking. You do not know. You are so foolish. The woods were there already and people were there. They were taking advantage.
Jagannātha-suta: "Yeah, we've arranged it in such a way. Now it's easier for us to carry on our daily lives by adjusting things like this. Where it comes from. It's already there. We admit it's there. Where it comes from, it's not so important."
Prabhupāda: They used to create fire by mantra. Can you do that?
Brahmānanda: They need natural gas, and the natural gas is running out.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: In India still, in the villages they do not know, other than this wood fuel, anything else. They are misusing these trees by cutting, manufacturing paper, heaps of paper, in each house throwing daily. They do not read, but they are supplied heaps of paper and cutting these trees. Simply waste. Now wood and paper shortage all over the world. It takes so much time to grow, and one day they cut hundreds of trees like this and put into the paper mill. And heaps of paper is given every house, and he throws away. Then you bring garbage tank. In this way, waste.
Nityānanda: Metal?
Prabhupāda: Yes, they manufacture, hand, hand in the sugar cane, two men. Even we can prepare hand machine by cutting the wood. They do that. We are not against machine. You can utilize machine. But we should not allow others unemployed and use machine. This should be point. You can use. Use machine, that's good, but not at the risk of keeping others unemployed. This should be noted. First thing is that everyone should be employed. If you have got many men, then why should you engage machine. These rascals, they do not know. They're taking machine and keeping so many men unemployed. And the welfare department is paying them. They do not know how to organize society. And therefore hippies are coming out. Crime, criminals are coming out. (indistinct) The government is paying for becoming criminals and hippies and prostitutes. And how you can be happy, a society full of prostitutes, hippies, and criminals.
Prabhupāda: No, no. What is that tree?
Ambarīṣa: It was a fir tree. Fir wood. It's a type of pine tree.
Prabhupāda: Oh. It is good.
Ambarīṣa: OK. Jaya. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: This tree is very common?
Ambarīṣa: Yes. There are quite a few around Michigan.
Prabhupāda: So you have seen the tree?
Harikeśa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: You collect the wood. (break) ...monkey in this country?
Ambarīṣa: No, no wild monkeys.
Brahmānanda: Only civilized monkeys. (laughter)
Ambarīṣa: We(?) are living in the cities.
Prabhupāda: At least civilized man's forefather. (break) ...bigger than monkey. You remember? We were walking in that park?
Brahmānanda: Yes. Oh, yes. Many were in the trees, jumping. (break)
Prabhupāda: Birds who eat monkey. You know that? I have seen in Los Angeles zoo, monkey-eating bird. They capture the monkey by the neck and drop it. And when it falls down it dies, and meat. And I have seen one statue in the Central Park. They are catching goats-eagle. And there are big eagles. They catch up elephant.
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be. Just like this is earth. Now you prepare hundreds or thousands of earthen pots and dolls. When it is destroyed, again it is earth. So when it is manifested, it is earth. When it is not manifested, it is earth. So from the spiritual energy of Kṛṣṇa everything becomes manifested, and therefore originally it is spiritual. Kṛṣṇa said, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir..., bhinnā me prakṛtiḥ: (BG 7.4) "It is My prakṛti, energy." So how Kṛṣṇa's energy can be material? Because we forget Kṛṣṇa, therefore it appears material. (Aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (Hindi) (break) ...Mahāprabhu, as soon as He entered the Jagannātha temple He immediately fainted. Did He see the wooden Jagannātha? It is a question of seeing and prepare the eyes to see.
Prabhupāda: Lord Rāmacandra worshiped His devotees. Just like sometimes Kṛṣṇa worships Rādhārāṇī and touched His feet..., Her feet. That does not mean that Kṛṣṇa... Just like Kṛṣṇa was tolerating ear pulling by Mother Yaśodā. That does not mean that Mother Yaśodā is the Supreme. Hm? Kṛṣṇa was carrying the wooden shoes of Nanda Mahārāja. So that does not mean Nanda Mahārāja is greater than Kṛṣṇa. It is Kṛṣṇa's pleasure. Just like sometimes a father takes the son on the shoulder, carries. Does it mean the father is inferior than the son? So this is third-class man's conclusion. They do not know what is Kṛṣṇa, what is Rāma. Kṛṣṇa says that aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). So He is the origin of Lord Śiva. So how Śiva can be the Supreme? We have to consult śāstra. Kṛṣṇa does not say that Śiva is Supreme. So if a third-class man says Śiva is Supreme, we have to accept it? We are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Whatever Kṛṣṇa says, that is Supreme, not a third-class man's version. Is it clear? Yes. We should not take a third-class, fourth-class man's version. We should take from the śāstra.
Prabhupāda: That's nice. Last night you were present in the meeting? Read our books very carefully, and as soon as there is some doubt, inquire. Here wooden house, practically none.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Mostly bricks.
Prabhupāda: Hm. That's good. Wooden house-matchbox. So there is no, I mean to say, fire brigade disturbance.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, there is fire. Yesterday, few weeks ago, across the street in the field there was a bush fire.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. But in your country, always fire brigade: "Dung, dung, dung, dung, dung, tunga, tunga, tunga, gara gara gara..."
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, there is always fires in America.
Prabhupāda: Because all wooden house.
Prabhupāda: Ah, fumigation.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: When the termites get into the wood they eat up the wood and they hide in nests underneath the house. So the way that they try to kill the termites is by gassing them. They cover their house with a tent, and then they gas, and it goes into the nests and kills all the termites. They are perfecting this art of killing. You said that in Calcutta in a very expensive cloth shop... Your father's brother used to have cloth shop?
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That when there was rats and they would eat the cloth that he would simply put some prasādam in the room.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Such a nice arrangment.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why they should charge for education? They'll not cut the tree. The dry branches or dead tree, they'll take the wood for utilization.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We can walk down this way, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break) ...parents who would give up their children to gurukula, they would never see them for about ten years?
Prabhupāda: Never see. Ten years? Twenty-five years. They may go and see, give some gifts to the guru.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Every one of them like that.
Saurabha: The building will be about big like this, this size.
Prabhupāda: So do it. (break) ...please come and take prasādam. (kīrtana) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Make a plan here?
Saurabha: This one. The other one is very complicated with very big... It's got wood, very big columns.
Dr. Patel: Gurukula. Kula of guru.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Brahmacari gurukule vasan danto guror hitam. This is the beginning. A brahmacārī should live in the aśrama of guru, danta, self-controlled, and only for the benefit of guru, not for anyone's benefit. Brahmacārī guru... They'll go, collect alms, and everything should be delivered to guru.
Dr. Patel: When Kṛṣṇa was sent to collect the wood.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Guror hitam. The brahmacārī life means only for the benefit of guru. Everything is there in Bhāgavatam.
Dr. Patel: That mode of teaching, I mean...
Prabhupāda: That can be introduced.
Prabhupāda: So near. You can come. (break) It is published, that the wood... Now it is no green leaves. Why? What is missing? If they are so expert, inject something and it will have green leaves like that. (break) ...I mean to say, trucks they are rejected in your country. We do not see such buses. What is this house?
Harikeśa: It's a college. It's a girls' college.
Prabhupāda: (break) How to kill child. This is education. Huh? Educated girl means how to divorce husband, how to kill child. Is it not? Educated, modern educated girl means how to become unfaithful to the husband, how to divorce and how to kill child.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He says that "My mind is disturbed even by seeing a wooden doll of a woman." So that is also there.
Dr. Patel: I mean the Vaiṣṇavas, sir, sādhus, they are not expected to look at the pictures of women.
Prabhupāda: No, no. That is not... Then how Caitanya Mahāprabhu allowed the woman to stand on His shoulder?
Dr. Patel: He is, was a mahaprabhu. Not for us...
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. That is the criterion, that if one is perfect devotee, then it is all right. And so long he is not or she is not perfect devotee, then there is restriction.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Jayapatāka: Those two big wooden boats back there? About two-third that size but not the same exact shape. Those are also big dinghies. (break) ...sagara, Midnapur, Diamond Harbor, that area, where...
Prabhupāda: Those places are good places for preaching.
Jayapatāka: I went there when I bought the boat. People there are so hungry, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Angry?
Jayapatāka: Hungry. Hungry. They're very.... I was eating a banana, I threw the peel on the ground and a boy picked up and ate the peel. I saw. They are so hungry. If we went there and distributed prasādam, so many people would be...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Jayapatāka: And the bigger ones, a full man size, about forty-five.
Prabhupāda: Very good. It is nice.
Jayapatāka: That's solid wood with mingo(?) top or turta(?) top.
Bhavānanda: (break) ...stay here.
Prabhupāda: How many boys to stay in one room?
Bhavānanda: Two boys to three boys, depending on their size. Little ones, three and four, and the bigger boys, ten, twelve years old, two.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...rooms.
Prabhupāda: Break? Why break? Another expenditure. Simply you make two brackets, wooden brackets, like that, and have a tin. That's all.
Jayapatāka: Tin.
Prabhupāda: Tin or steel. Why breaking, again another?
Jayapatāka: There's already a.... I was thinking about the rain, if it's falling straight down, that will be somewhat protected by this arch. Only if the rain is coming from this side, and even then it won't protect...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. The arch will.... That's all right. Then don't require. Then it is all right. Don't require. (break) It will be colder in Bengal. Māghi, Māgha-māsa. Who has done this mischief, "Māyāpur"?
Jayapatāka: Someone put mud over "Māyāpur." This is our land, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: So he is making some propaganda that he is the...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, just like in the woods the jackal is always crying that he is the king, but who cares for him? What is his qualification?
Prabhupāda: So do we require to...? There is no use.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, our answer is all of these books.
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Prabhupāda: I knew it, that they were preparing some sand, because Dr. Bose had a bottle factory. So he was melting the sand. Therefore I asked him. You cannot manufacture anything. You simply collect the ingredients given by God and you can transfer into some other form. You cannot manufacture. This building is also the same way. You have got the cement, the wood, the iron. Wherefrom you have got that? It is Kṛṣṇa's property. So those who are manufacturing or constructing big, big houses for their living, they are simply eating their sinful activities. Ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt (BG 3.13). We are also... They can say that "You are also con..." But we are not doing it for ourself. It is for Kṛṣṇa. Therefore karma and bhakti apparently looks the same activity, but one is for Kṛṣṇa, another is for one's personal use. Bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpāḥ. What is that verse? You know? Bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt. Hm? What is that book? Oh. Today there is no fog, or there is, that side, fog. (break) ...all convinced that our only business is to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Huh? That is required. We have no other business. "We" means we human beings. We have no other business.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, supposing in the woods. You're in the woods and I kill you during your sleep. There is no other human being there.
Hṛdayānanda: "But you were conscious of it. You were conscious of my death, so therefore my death is a fact."
Prabhupāda: Then in the forest there are no animals?
Hṛdayānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: They cannot... They are not conscious?
Hṛdayānanda: Well, if an animal hears, that's all right also. As long as someone is conscious.
Prabhupāda: In the forest there are many animals, hundreds and thousands. They are conscious that tree has fallen.
Prabhupāda: If he is so sincere.... Just like dried wood immediately ignites. And if it is moist, it does not. It is the quality of the wood. One takes three hundred years; one in three minutes. That's it. (break) One is dry from the material moist of contamination, he becomes immediately ignited in spiritual...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is that drying process?
Prabhupāda: Drying process is for many, many years one has tried to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, for many, many lives, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). When he actually becomes man of knowledge he surrenders unto God. Otherwise he is lost. His drying process may take three minute or three millions years.
Pañcadravida: Then you don't even have to hear from a self-realized soul. Simply by seeing him you can become completely purified.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Both required. The matches must be also all right, and the wood must be also. Then there is fire. If one of them is defective, then, it will not.... But when you go to the fire, you become dry. But willfully we put again water. This nonsense business makes us late. This process is already there, how to become dry. But instead of taking the process, we put water. Then how it will be ignited? The rules and regulations is the drying process. But without following the rules and regulation, if you again become a victimized by māyā, then there is water and again dry it. So this is going on, watering and drying, watering and drying. No straightforward process for drying. That will help. But difficulty is that we dry and again water.
Prabhupāda: Hm, (indistinct) are here. Why is it? Some wood. (break) ...grow foodgrains, simple living.
Devotee (1): The house is there, under the trees.(?)
Prabhupāda: Yes. (aside:) You have got this card.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In the Western countries they would call this primitive.
Prabhupāda: They do not know what is civilization, that is there. The difficulty is they have no education about human civilization. Bahir-artha-māninā. They are simply captivated by the external energy, bodily conception of life. They do not know what is the aim of life. This is Western civilization. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). This is not Western, this is the demonic civilization. They do not know what is the aim of life. Our..., the material atmosphere, they're not happy, they're failing always, missing the real point.
Prabhupāda: Nothing. Artificial blood.... Superficially it is red water. So if red water is the life, then why you are spoiling so much blood? Keep it scientifically and push it into the dead body. I say it is, that way, it is the red water, nothing but red water. Urine is white water. I am coming to the five elements, air, water.... Then what is this bone? Earth. You can manufacture bone, hard bone, with earth or wood or something plastic. So we are analyzing the combination of the body, so everything you can manufacture. But where is the life you can manufacture? Why do you say? That is our challenge. All the ingredients of the body you can manufacture exactly like that. Ultimately you can give the beauty also of the woman or the man. But where is life? Bring life by all these things. Then I will say that you are scientist. Otherwise cheater, simply bluffing people. This thing should be stopped. Where you get the information that this, from matter life is possible. "In future." But in future.... In inceptive condition you show something. Just like formerly they were flying balloons. So because they were flying, they could say that "Future we shall fly a big city." And in the history we can see that that is not impossible, because in the inceptive condition or initiative condition we see that big things can be flown. But here you cannot even prepare an ant. You have not been able to prepare even a small ant, germ. Show me. So why do you say, "In future I shall do it"?
Prabhupāda: That is the difference. I have already told you that the soul is in the child, and the soul is in the body of the father, but the child's soul is.... Or.... Soul is everywhere, but the proportionate consciousness is not developed. Just like wood. In every wood there is fire. Do you admit?
Brian Singer: In every...?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Wood.
Brian Singer: Oh, yeah, yeah.
Prabhupāda: Now, if a small piece of wood, a small piece of fire. And big piece of wood, big piece of fire. Similarly, according to the body, the consciousness of the soul is present.
Brian Singer: In proportion to the form of life.
Prabhupāda: In proportion to the body the.... The same fire, but the proportion of the fire is different, in proportion of the piece of wood. Similarly, according to the body, the consciousness is manifest. The consciousness of a child is different from the consciousness of the father because the body is different. So in the human form of life it is expected that the consciousness should be fully developed. If it does not develop by some reason or other, then it remains like animal. In the human form of life it is expected that the consciousness should be fully developed.
Prabhupāda: Huh? That is not desire. It is a natural. That is natural. Obedience to Kṛṣṇa, that is my natural business. Servant's business is always ready: "What can I do, sir?" This is not desire. This is natural position. He's not desiring anything. He's simply ready, "What can I do?" Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167). That is, he's not desiring anything. Desire means when I want something for my satisfaction, that is desire. (break) ...mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā aikya. He's simply expecting what spiritual master will order. Citta. Āra nā koriho... He has no other desire. That is desirelessness. (break) Desireless means a wooden stone. It has no mind, how it can de.... But every living entity has got mind, so this is desirelessness, that "I'll wait for the order of my master and immediately execute." That is desirelessness. .... (break) stop functioning, then what is the meaning of guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā aikya **? That means awaiting the order from the mouth of guru. Āra nā koriho mane. He has no other desires. That is to be under.... (break) Nirvāṇa, nirvāṇa means that you give up all material desires. Not that "But he did not say anything more than that." Because it was meant for the fourth-class men, so he did not say. He simply asked that you finish this material desire.
Prabhupāda: ...by taking birth of any, whether the tree is taking birth or the ant is taking birth and the fish is taking birth. Everywhere, living entities, they are taking birth, that's all. And they are dying also. And between birth and death there is disease and old age. So during birth one cannot understand, because there is unconscious stage. So even the fetus is killed, it cannot under..., because fully unconscious stage. And there is life undoubtedly; otherwise how the fetus all of a sudden gets life? But these mūḍhas cannot see it. Here in this matter there is no life; therefore many thousands of years, if you kill, it will never show any symptom of life. But if there is life, at a time it will come to consciousness. Just like fainted man is lying like a dead man, but he is not dead. There is life. It is fainted, unconscious state. So because there is life, he may lie down in that unconscious state for two, three hours; again he'll come. It is common sense. And if a log, wood log, is lying flat, will it come to life, anything? But because these mūḍhas, they are taking that "Fetus has no life. Kill it, finish it and eat it." It is going on. You know that?
Prabhupāda: They are being carved, Kṛṣṇa's wood form, but he was so impatient, he said "Whatever is done now, establish." It is said that Viśvakarmā was enquiring. So the term was, Viśvakarmā said that "Unless I finish, don't open the door." So this king, he went impatiently, and calling out whether he is finished. Then he forced, forcibly opened the door, and it was unfinished. So he said "Never mind, (indistinct)." Unfinished Kṛṣṇa (indistinct). So Kṛṣṇa, finished or unfinished, is Kṛṣṇa. That is omnipotency. That is Jagannātha form, (indistinct) doesn't matter finished or unfinished.
Jagannātha-suta: Śrīla Prabhupāda, when I was in New York recently to check the color printing of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 7.2, we were presented with two awards which your books had won for color and design, two awards from the Printing Industries of Metropolitan New York. They gave us big wooden plaques with a certificate of excellence, yes, for Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and for Caitanya-caritāmṛta.
Hṛdayānanda: You should show Prabhupāda, bring him those plaques.
Jagannātha-suta: Yes, we have those plaques hanging up in the Press building now.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Bring it, I shall see.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (break) ...diminution on this path of devotional service, nehābhikrama-nāśo'sti (BG 2.40). So does that mean that once one enters the material world, there's only progress in going back to Godhead, although it may be slow, over many lifetimes?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. One is going slow, one is finishing very rapidly. If one is serious, he can finish very rapidly. If one is not serious, it will take time.
Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu said if there is no Kṛṣṇa, then everything is useless. Śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvaṁ govinda-viraheṇa me. (long pause) (break)
Mādhavānanda: ...attach a rope to the back of the boat and they have wooden skis...
Prabhupāda: Plank.
Mādhavānanda: ...and they ski on the water for sport.
Jayādvaita: Satsvarūpa Mahārāja and I were at some place where there was a lake, and on Saturday and Sunday so many speedboats with people playing and enjoying, and on Monday, no boats. Everyone was working again.
Prabhupāda: They do not want to work. Therefore they take advantage of Sunday. Inclination is not to work. But unfortunately that is not possible. If they do not work, they cannot eat. But if we say that "There is a place, without working you can eat, and for example come to us," they will not accept. Then they will say, "You are escaping. You are escaping." (laughs) If you work, that you don't like, and if somebody does not work, he's escaping.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's just like, say here's a field, and it's full of wood, so a farmer comes and he cuts down the trees and then he plants grain, and then it comes up as wheat. So he'll say, "Well, God did not do it; I did it." So his proposal is that under such circumstances how is the idea of God practical?
Prabhupāda: So then practical is if God would not have given you this land, then where is scheme of tilling it? Can you till in the sky, in the air? Who has given you the land, hmm? You are very practical, but where you get the...? Can you manufacture this land? Can you? Then God comes, immediately. Where you get this water? Can you manufacture water? Where you get this air? Can you manufacture? Where you get this fire? Everything, there is God.
Prabhupāda: That is the nature's way. You cut the lumber and make cottage, and the land is clear, then cultivate, get you food, and cows, give them grass.
Kīrtanānanda: (break) ...woods around here.
Prabhupāda: Why it is there is no fog here? Due to the trees? It is clear.
Kīrtanānanda: There's a river up that way, and I think there's more fog up that—it's always like that, I don't know exactly why. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...in the jungle?
Kīrtanānanda: Deer.
Prabhupāda: Deer only.
Kīrtanānanda: Few fox.
Prabhupāda: Fox also. And fox, they come to our temple?
Kīrtanānanda: No.
Prabhupāda: No. Fox, they eat men? No.
Kīrtanānanda: Not usually. Only if they get sick, rabies, then they'll attack. They eat rabbits and rodents.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break).... in the kitchen, this wood or gas?
Kīrtanānanda: Both. Mostly wood.
Prabhupāda: There are so many jungles, we can use wood.
Kīrtanānanda: Actually we like it better.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, it is better, nice.
Kīrtanānanda: But it is a little dirty. Unless you change it to charcoal, there was always some smoke. This is not ours. Our property comes down this way, but not on this corner. (break) ...land, Prabhupāda, and they say overpopulation.
Prabhupāda: In the beginning, I protest against this assertion, there is overpopulation. I never admitted. Perhaps you know.
Prabhupāda: You can utilize this water for fertilizing, drain water.
Kīrtanānanda: Well, first of all, we have to satisfy the health department.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...wood as fuel so that gradually this jungle will be clear. Thank you very much.
Devotees: Śrīla Prabhupāda ki jaya! Śrīla Prabhupāda ki jaya! Śrīla Prabhupāda ki jaya! (break)
Kīrtanānanda: (in car:) It's sand, yes. It's not from our property, but it's gotten locally. It comes out of the river.
Prabhupāda: Everything you had to purchase?
Kīrtanānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: It will be required.
Prabhupāda: Never mind. Do slowly, that is pleasure.
Kīrtanānanda: Well, we could do it much faster if we didn't try to utilize the wood, but we want to utilize.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Unnecessarily you should not cut. When it is necessary for Kṛṣṇa, then you cut. This is also living entity. We cannot kill them without any sufficient reason. (sings) Śrī kṛṣṇa caitanya. This is our property?
Kīrtanānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Oh. This side also.
Prabhupāda: Cement wall or wooden?
Kīrtanānanda: No, a combination of masonry and fancy iron so that people can see through.
Prabhupāda: Reinforced.
Kīrtanānanda: Yes, but also so they can see through at certain points.
Prabhupāda: Jaya. With sunshine this wood becomes very, very beautiful. Tapo-vana. (break) ...in this house.
Prabhupāda: Agriculture is the noblest profession. Give him some land, he cuts the wood, makes cottages. The land is clear, now till it, keep cows and grow foodgrains.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Doesn't put any local men out of work.
Prabhupāda: Simple thing. And then live comfortably, eat comfortably, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Comfortably does not mean satisfaction of the senses. Comfortably means we require primary necessities, to eat something, to sleep somewhere or have some sex—this is also bodily need—and to defend, that's all. These are the primary necessities. That can be arranged anywhere. God has given all facilities. Grow your own food, eat, and live anywhere. Just this place was rough like that, now it is handled nicely, it is very attractive.
Prabhupāda: That is... Karma jagat means that if you have to raise this house, then you have to cut the wood somewhere. You have to destroy somewhere, and then you can make house. You have to adjust things like that. You cannot create. This house was constructed, created, by destroying somewhere else. Is it not? So where is your creation? Creation is God's creation. He has created everything, and if you want to create, you have to destroy somewhere. That is karma.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes these people are called duṣkṛtina. And you've mentioned that the duṣkṛtina, actually he has some intelligence, misused.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Intelligence. After destroying the wood, you use your intelligence to construct this house. You have intelligence, there is no doubt. Human being must have intelligence. But that intelligence is given to him for getting out of the clutches of birth, death, old age and disease. He's not utilizing that intelligence for that purpose, therefore duṣkṛtina. Intelligence he has got. We don't say that modern world, they are unintelligent, fools. No, they have got intelligence. But the intelligence is being utilized for duṣkarya, which he should not have done. Duṣkarya. Karya and duṣkarya-work and bad work. His intelligence was given so that he could get relief from these clutches of birth, death, old age and disease, but that he's not utilizing. He's opening factory and creating another bad atmosphere. Therefore duṣkṛtina. To open a factory requires intelligence. So many machine is working, that's all right, but how this intelligence being used? To keep man in a hellish condition of life. Therefore duṣkṛtina.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Do you know how to work? No. (devotees laugh)
Kīrtanānanda: That is a heater, it's burning wood. (break to walking outside, kīrtana going on.) ...growing mung beans in this little field over there.
Prabhupāda: (kīrtana ended, conversation in car now) Jaya. ...horse? What do they do, plowing?
Kīrtanānanda: Yes. They do some plowing, they do some pulling wagons. Mostly they are used in the woods for logging.
Prabhupāda: Oh. This land is very nice. For mung beans?
Kīrtanānanda: Yes, those are all mung beans up there. (break)
Children: Haribol!
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Kṛṣṇa Balarāma used to practice race with the birds.
Kīrtanānanda: Our community is gaining in opulence.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Dhānyena dhanavān. If you have got grain, then you are rich. And if you have got cows, then you are rich. This is the standard of Vedic richness. Dhānyena dhanavān gavayo dhanavān. They don't say, "Keep some papers and you become rich." All rascal, one thousand dollar I promise to pay, a piece of paper. Practical, we have got enough food grains. We have got enough... That is richness. What is use of paper? Even gold you have got, you have to exchange. And if you have grain, immediate food. Just boil with milk, and it is nectarean, param anna, immediately. Take some wood collected from the wood and have fire, put the milk and the grains-oḥ, you'll get so nice food, nutritious, full of vitamin, and so easily made. It is practical. So tasteful, so nutritious, and don't require. If you simply boil little milk and little grain, whole day, so much sweet rice, you take-bas. You don't require any more. And if you add little apples and fruits, oh, it is heavenly. Your whole day free from any food anxiety, and you can work. And you can work. You can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Make this ideal life here. America has got good potency. We have got so much land here. We can have hundreds of New Vrindabans or farms like that. And people will be happy. And invite all the world, "Please come and live with us. Why you are suffering congestion, overpopulation? Welcome here. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." Make that. Indian culture and American strength make the whole world happy
Prabhupāda: That's good. This wooden wall was there?
Vipina: Yes. We refinished them.
Vṛṣākapi: It was all dirty.
Prabhupāda: It was not used.
Rūpānuga: It was simply for office, like that. And the temple building was a gymnasium. It used to be a gymnasium, and we have converted the whole thing.
Vipina: That was one reason that we were very much attracted to the property. The property itself was not very beautiful when we came, but the gym was built, and we saw it as an immediate temple where we could hold kīrtana and preach. So we then made a contract and the fish bit.
Prabhupāda: Nobody was taking.
Prabhupāda: Then? What happened, he was not identified?
Vṛṣākapi: They said that he lived in these woods back here, way back in the woods.
Prabhupāda: Oh, drunkard.
Vṛṣākapi: Yes. They had many cars here all day for two days. All the police, ambulance, TV.
Prabhupāda: To take photograph?
Vṛṣākapi: To take photograph of the place. It became a monument. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Just to see a dead body.
Prabhupāda: And I was playing a broken mṛdaṅga.
Rūpānuga: It was wood. Was it wooden?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I think they had that at the New Vrindaban farm.
Rūpānuga: We had borrowed it from an Indian man.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It was a little one-sided drum?
Rūpānuga: No, it was a big, two-sided wooden drum. That was another drum. (break)
Prabhupāda: That was 1966.
Prabhupāda: Because the living entity is there, matter is generated. Just like a tree, living entity is there, and big log, wood is generated.
Rūpānuga: Like that stone. That stone is increasing it's weight, so when someone goes to see the stone he sees, ah, the stone is bigger and heavier also. So that increased material or matter that makes up the bigger size of the stone, is that matter being generated from the soul?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Just like this house, a combination of matter. But I am within this room, that does not mean I am this matter. Similarly, I am within this body, but that does not mean I am this body. This chemical composition is suitable arrangement, like this house is made with bricks, with lime, with stone, with wood. But as a living being, I am not identified with all those. Similarly, the body, it may be combination of chemicals, but the life is different.
Prabhupāda: Just see, why this wood is dried up? Why?
Hari-śauri: There is no spirit soul in it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It has been severed from the tree.
Prabhupāda: Yes, from the, it is out of touch from the original bark. Similarly, any civilization which is out of touch of God consciousness, that will dry up in due course of time.
Bali-mardana: There are not many termites in New York. We are fortunate. In Hawaii there are many termites. But here you don't usually have to protect wood against termites. Here the wintertime kills them. It gets so cold.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, very cold.
Prabhupāda: In Hawaii there are so many tulasīs dry wood. We can make those.
Bhagavān: In our preaching this is good point, that we do not alienate the communists and stress on the differences between us and them.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Harikeśa: In illusion I think I come back here, I get healthy. In illusion I think if I leave India and come here I will get healthy. But I come here I also get sick. I go there I also get sick. (laughs) You seem to be much better now.
Prabhupāda: Yes, little better. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...thinking of how to utilize the whole land. The situation is very good, good prospect. I want that self-independent here, as far as possible. But you have got enough materials. With woods you can make cottages. Then land becomes clear, then utilize it.
Prabhupāda: Plan is that we have got woods. Cut the woods, make small cottages, and engage them for growing fruits, flowers, grains, and make the complete arrangement nicely. Water...
Hari-śauri: Irrigation.
Prabhupāda: In this way make it ever green.
Bhagavān: There was a question about the cows, that at what point should the calf be separated from the mother. Because sometimes when the calf is separated, the mother, she cries.
Prabhupāda: No, they should not be taken away.
Prabhupāda: Material universe is caused by, that is...
Hari-śauri: They say that it is causeless, there's nothing beyond it.
Prabhupāda: No, how it can be? Material... Suppose matter. Now this wood is dead matter. Wherefrom it has come?
Hari-śauri: Well, the...
Prabhupāda: Not "well," first of all, study this. Wherefrom this wood has come?
Hari-śauri: From a tree.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And wherefrom the tree has come?
Hari-śauri: From the ground.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Hari-śauri: So the material elements are already there and...
Prabhupāda: Bīja, bīja. Bījāhaṁ sarva-bhūtānām. You sow the seed, there will come out a tree, and from that tree there will be big trunk and you cut the tree, then you get wood.
Prabhupāda: Don't talk now.
Harikeśa: Okay. (long pause)
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Hari-śauri: Everything is going on. Wood carving, cement lay, painting, marble polishing. The yajña.
Prabhupāda: If we would have remained there. These people are coming. How they could see?
Hari-śauri: Still, it would have been very quiet.
Prabhupāda: We are not (indistinct). Besides that, we don't want quietness. We want how many (indistinct).
Hari-śauri: Jaya. If you wanted quietness you could have stayed in Vṛndāvana.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is the speciality. The guru... One should go to guru to serve him as menial servant. That is acceptance of guru. That is required. Nīcavat. Nīca, nīca means menial. Just like menial servant, he does everything. Similarly, to live with guru means to serve him as a menial servant. That is Vedic injunction. Nīcavat. You should not be puffed up, that "I am coming from such royal family, I am coming from such rich family." And that tendency is trained up from the childhood. A child does not know. Just like Pradyumna's son. You can engage him in any menial service. He does not discriminate. He's trained up. So this is gurukula. Very word is used, nīcavat. He gives service to the guru just like a menial servant. And this training being given from the childhood, he does not know what is low or what is high. His spiritual master asks to do something... Even Kṛṣṇa went to the forest to collect some dry wood. Vasudeva's son, in royal family, but he had to go. And all of a sudden there was storm and, what is called?
Hari-śauri: Nationalism.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Internationalism. Why it is a short-sighted view, "They cannot come here"? Everyone is God's son, and everything belongs to God. If one finds opportunity in some place, let him have it. I think if this is adopted by the United Nation, immediately the face of the world will change. The Chinese and the Indians, they are very expert. If they are given place, they can immediately turn that place into a nice food-producing village. They can do that. And you can produce anything usable from anywhere according to the climate. Especially in America, the facility is very, very great. So many jungles. If the jungles are cut, the woods can be used for making house and the field can be used for producing food and milk, cows, everything. Around our New Vrindaban there are many places.
Hari-śauri: Both our... Pennsylvania farm has 100 acres of woods.
Prabhupāda: Especially in America. There is enough place. And England also. There is enough place. They are not being utilized.
Prabhupāda: Even though they're not... You cannot say not... They are clean. I have seen in Bombay even the poorest man, his house, and a Parsee gentleman, his house. Kitchen habits. A Parsee's kitchen is so nasty. And here you see this poor man's house, they are neat. Their utensils how much cleansed. I had been in Parsee kitchen. All the pots black. Nothing is cleansed. For eating they use this China. So clean or unclean cannot be understood. Simply washed. But so far the kitchen pots, all are... In our also, when it is handled by this European, American devotees, the black. Down, it is black. That should not be black. It must be cleansed.
Mahāṁsa: By the heat with these wood, it brings up a lot of soot.
Prabhupāda: But it must be cleansed daily.
Prabhupāda: So first of all finish your construction. Then you go to (indistinct).
Saurabha: (indistinct), they carving the wood and everything, the shape of the...
Prabhupāda: Now, we shall bring priests from Hyderabad.
Saurabha: Aha. That is the technical thing. But I was speaking regarding the construction because I want to know whether you want to have the bathing ceremony only taking place on the opening day, or also later on the facility can...
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Saurabha: Only that day.
Prabhupāda: Only that day.
Prabhupāda: In this way be encouraged and in full capacity do business and get others.
Dhanañjaya: There was one boy who just came from Italy and he's expert in wood carving.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Dhanañjaya: So we can take artists for wooden siṁhāsanas. Siṁhāsanas he said he can make. He even brought his tools. He has a whole box of tools he brought just for carving and he studied in the south of Spain, religious architecture.
Prabhupāda: He can make a small siṁhāsana for the Deities, collapsible. So that if anyone wants, he can dispatch them.
Mahāṁśa: ...a trench and a hedge, which has been planted here so that people and animals... Animals is the main problem. They come and they eat up the plants which we grow. So by having this trench we avoid animals from getting in and a hedge also. There'll be a lot of... One big problem that the Badrukas faced was that there was tremendous pilferage. These village people, they live on this land. They used to cut all the wood here for fire, they used to take whatever grows here, maize, and they used to steal in the night everything. Many times...
Prabhupāda: So ask them to chant and take prasādam. They will be rectified. Make them friends, family members. Just we organize, everything is there.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Hari-śauri: See, they have all the wood now for the doors, and they need one more day and then all the doors will be fitted in the whole house.
Prabhupāda: So do that tomorrow.
Hari-śauri: And that will be a lot safer too. Security reasons, it will be a lot better.
Prabhupāda: Tomorrow morning we can go. That's all right.
Hari-śauri: Yes.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...śuddhyed sattva, purify your existence.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Jagadīśa: As in Hyderabad.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then our movement is success. Our only motive is how people become interested in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We have no other motive. No economic problem... Economic problem is... What is economic problem? We produce our own food and cloth, barely, and spiritual life... On the farm it is easier. And if they are dispatched to the city for livelihood, there are big, big roads and big, big cars and big, big anxieties. Then wine, meat, and so on, so on..., suicide, their spiritual life finished. These rascals are protesting. They have no ideas of spiritual life. They think this is life, to be merry, enjoy and drink. "Eat. Drink. Be merry." How they are committing suicide, they do not know. Nature's law is very stringent. They are foolish rascal. There is no education for them. Still, if we try, many men will be saved. So write very elaborately how to do this. Increase. And in your country, we increase this farm project any unlimited number... So much land is lying vacant. We can utilize the wood for constructing residences. And as soon as the jungle is clear, we can utilize it for growing food and keeping cows, as exactly they are doing in New Vrindaban. The cows are very happy. In our original New Vrindaban... What you have named it?
Jagadīśa: The original farm? I think they still call that New Vrindaban.
Prabhupāda: No, New Vrindaban, whole thing. That is called Bahulaban or something like that? So the cows are free moving. They're very happy.
Prabhupāda: That idea I'm still maintaining. Yes.
Pradyumna: "The necessities of human society are food grains, fruits, milk, minerals, clothing, wood, etc. One requires all these items to fulfill the material needs of the body. Certainly one does not require flesh and fish or iron tools and machinery. During the regime of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, all over the world there were regulated rainfalls. Rainfalls are not in the control of the human being. The heavenly king Indradeva is the controller of rains, and he is the servant of the Lord. When the Lord is obeyed by the king and the people under the king's administration, there are regulated rains from the horizon, and these rains are the causes of all varieties of production on the land. Not only do regulated rains help ample production of grains and fruits, but when they combine with astronomical influences there is ample production of valuable stones and pearls. Grains and vegetables can sumptuously feed a man and animals, and the fatty cow delivers enough milk to supply a man sumptuously with vigor and vitality."
Prabhupāda: Now Kīrtanānanda has sent so nice sweets.
Prabhupāda: Cooking is being done with wood? That's nice. That is very good.
Gurudāsa: Yes, very nice. And in the morning, the first morning... When I went there, actually nothing was happening very much. So the first morning... It's so cold, the devotees were just staying in their blankets. So I got up at four o'clock and bathed and started a fire. And I said, "It's warmer here than in your tent. Come around the fire."
Prabhupāda: Yes, and around the fire, it is very warm.
Prabhupāda: Ah! Tamasa... "Don't remain in the darkness; come to the light." So this is the Vedic injunction. But we don't take advantage of the instruction. We think that "If I can make one table from a ordinary wooden plank, that is advancement." This is technology. This nice polished table is a transformation of the crude wooden plank. So if a crude wooden plank is transferred into nice table, we see: "Oh, this is advancement." What is actual benefit? I can do without this table. But we have taken: "This is advancement. Transforming the form of an element into another, that is advancement." So asate vilāsa. This is asat, this wood, either in crude form or in transferred form. So I am taking credit because a crude wood has been turned into a table. So that is my vilāsa. So sat saṅga chāḍi kāinu asate vilāsa. So I am now bound up. I can become a very nice carpenter. Does it mean that I am self-realized? If you have learned the art of turning crude wood into a table, nice table, you may get the credit of becoming a nice carpenter; that does not mean you are self-realized. They are taking credit of this turning crude wood into nice table, and they're thinking that "Our life is successful."
Prabhupāda: Yes, Dacca University next to Calcutta University. Just see how human beings are becoming less than ferocious animals.
Gargamuni: Even one man, he was making a plaque in your name in thankfulness for preaching this Vaiṣṇava-dharma. He was making a wooden plaque, and he was a doctor of physics at the university. And one night they came in and shot him and his whole family, this man. He was very helpful to us while we were there.
Prabhupāda: Only fault that he was making some...
Gargamuni: No, his fault was that he had some education. Anyone who was doing anything... This one boy who was translating your books, he was a very educated person. He was about thirty years old.
Prabhupāda: Hindu.
Gargamuni: Hindu. Yes. He was brahmacārī there at the āśrama. He was the chief pūjārī. But he joined us. We toured a few areas, and he came with us and arranged for everything. And he joined us, and he was translating.
Prabhupāda: (aside:) Now take this.
Prabhupāda: Why so much? Few lakhs?
Gargamuni: Well, it's a huge thing. It's made of solid teak wood. It's a huge thing.
Rāmeśvara: It's dangerous, going on the sea.
Gargamuni: No, not if you have proper navigation. And this sea is not so... It's not a rough sea.
Prabhupāda: Bay of Bengal is rough.
Gargamuni: I've been on the Bay of Bengal. No, actually I was not on the Bay of Bengal. I was near the mouth, in Bangladesh. It's rough...
Prabhupāda: Bay of Bengal is very rough.
Prabhupāda: No, the Indians, they do not like to sit down...
Gargamuni: No. Indians don't like to mix, and Africans also, they like to be with their own. The instruments we use... They make their own instruments out of different materials. They have these pieces of metal and wooden blocks. They love it. They can make much noise. Actually the Asians like it very much when they see the Africans doing that. So both are very happy.
Prabhupāda: That's nice. All right.
Prabhupāda: Qualified, that is not very difficult. For the girl, find out a boy who is hard worker or a little educated. Bas. That's all. That was the selection. Then fortune. You give a daughter under the care of the boy who can work hard. That's all. They then will earn their livelihood. Even there is no education, a hard worker will do. A boy, as soon as has got the sense that "I have got a wife to maintain," he'll work. That is impetus to give him to work for the family. And if a boy gets wife or woman without any hard working, they why he should marry? And if he has got responsibility that "I have to maintain my wife; then I can enjoy," then he becomes responsible. Wooden bridge?
Gurukṛpa: That is like Australia. That is Australia.
Prabhupāda: Australia?
Gurukṛpa: Yes, the whole country is...
Prabhupāda: Wooden bridge.
Guest (1): No idol. No, that idol is actually, they are planned to...
Prabhupāda: No, no, that is actually happened. The so-called idol, He went to be witness. He came from Vṛndāvana to Cuttack. So "idol worship" is they say. But devotee... Just like people are coming by thousands to see Jagannātha. Do they come to see idol? Wooden Jagannātha? They come to see real Jagannātha, Bhagavān Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise why they will spend so much money and take so much trouble and come here? The atheists may say, "How foolish they are. They are coming here to see a wooden figure and spending so much money." That is the statement of the atheist. But a devotee comes to see—"Kṛṣṇa is here." Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu saw—immediately fainted. So there are two visions. Therefore it is forbidden. Arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matir vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. So the atheist class, they see, "Here is a wooden... Oh, what is the Jagannātha made of? Wood or stone?" They're seeing wood and stone. Similarly, Vaiṣṇavas also they're seeing, "a American," "European." They are blind.
Brahmānanda: Yes. But he's our good friend and supporter. He will help us in Mombassa very much.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Farm project is very nice. Kṛṣṇa gives. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). This is economic problem solved. And brāhmaṇa, brain problem solved, and kṣatriya, protection problem solved, and śūdra, labor problem solved. Four things combined together, live peacefully, happily. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Introduce this farm project. In America there is enough scope. So much land is lying vacant. And if there are jungles, cut the jungles; use the wood. Just like our Virginia. Big, big jungles. You cut the woods, you get ground, open field, and utilize the logs for house-making. Food, shelter, everything there. In Africa, everywhere, the nature's way.
Prabhupāda: Acchedyaḥ, yes. Acchedyo 'yam. Now, chedya means which can be cut by... Just like this is wood. It can be cut by the saw. This can be separated. Then? Acchedyo 'yam adāhyo 'yam. Adāhyaḥ. The wood can be burned. So it is denying, that "The soul cannot be cut and it cannot be burned." Then?
Harikeśa: Akledyaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Akledyaḥ, that... The wood, if you put into the water, it will be moist. But it is not... Soul never becomes moist. That means the five elements—earth, water, air, fire, ether—all these five elements can be cut, can be moistened, can be burned, can be dried up. But he is giving negative definition that "Soul cannot be done like that." So therefore it is not fallible, material.
Prabhupāda: I think this cooler keeps the whole block...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, it does. It does. I keep the wooden doors separating your room and my office open, and my room is quite cool. Only a curtain is there. Air blows through.
Prabhupāda: So let it go on like that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You could purchase. In our family or every family, they used to purchase gold from the currency and melt it and make ornaments. There was no restriction. "Guinea gold." Gold was purchased and sold as you like. Where is that gold? Refusing gold(?) and taking.(?)
Yaśomatīnandana: You want me to read the purport? "The basic principle of economic development is centered about land and cows. The necessities of human society are food grains, fruits, milk, minerals, clothing, wood, etc...."
Prabhupāda: I am not interested in (indistinct). These I have already written some years ago. This is my idea.
Prabhupāda: Two servants always cleansing. As soon as somebody eats, the servant cleanses the place, take the plates and washes, return to kitchen. You have seen cut rows, wood. Devotees have seen. You can purchase. Engage one wood cutter. Then that will be... Everything can be arranged. Simply good management. Sleeping management will not help. And everyone... Such a big hall. Everyone should eat.
Prabhupāda: Hm. A small ratha the father give. The height, about this, made of nice, strong wood.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All the boys would pull it?
Prabhupāda: Everything small scale.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Small pullers also.
Prabhupāda: Eight days, eight kind of varieties of prasādam, my mother will prepare.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She would take part by preparing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And now... Whether the... Make very nice bannerjee(?). Formerly people were engaged in these things. There was another Mullik family, Rajen..., Raja Rajendra. He was distributing jagannātha-prasāda, daily, two thousand portions.
Prabhupāda: Brick building?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not a big building. It's not that big.
Prabhupāda: Wooden.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, brick building. Yes, Prabhupāda, brick building. It is brick.
Prabhupāda: In London mostly they are brick.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: 'Cause of the cold climate. But the location is...
Prabhupāda: Very costly.
Prabhupāda: Strong?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And this says, "His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, Author of Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Śrī Īśopaniṣad, Nectar of Devotion, Nectar of Instruction, Back to Godhead Magazine, Founder-Ācārya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness." This is placed in prominent museums and libraries. There's four different models. This is solid wood, and this will be a bronze plaque, and this is made of bronze, metal. You can feel it. Nice?
Prabhupāda: Very nice.
| Page Title: | Wood (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Rishab, Mayapur |
| Created: | 05 of Jun, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=131, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 131 |