What to speak of... (Conversations 1976)

Expressions researched:
"what to speak of"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: Mahārāja Pratāparudra, when he was refused interview by Lord Caitanya.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: He was thinking, "He saved Jagāi and Mādhāi, but I am so low that I am not able to see Him."

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Jagāi-Mādhāi was delivered, but I am so lower that I have no chance of being delivered." Pratāparudra Mahārāja.

Harikeśa: It's inconceivable how he could think like that.

Prabhupāda: No, every Vaiṣṇava thinks like that. A Vaiṣṇava never thinks, "I have become perfect." Even Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, what to speak of others. (break) ...are carrying cement? Hm? (end)

Morning Walk -- February 6, 1976, Mayapura:

Dayānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, that tendency to be puffed up seems to be so strong, as soon as they get just a little bit of so-called qualification, then they... Everyone is becoming puffed up, even great personalities like Lord Indra and Lord Brahmā.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dayānanda: What to speak of all the...

Prabhupāda: Lord Brahmā is also one of the living entities.

Dayānanda: So how is it possible that... We're so insignificant, but at the same time we become so puffed up? How is it possible for us...?

Prabhupāda: That is material consciousness, that you are nothing you are thinking very big. That is material consciousness. And as soon as you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, you'll simply think, "Kṛṣṇa is great; we are nothing, insignificant." That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And so long you think that you are independent of Kṛṣṇa—you are also another Kṛṣṇa—then you are fool, rascal. Mūḍho 'yaṁ nābhijānāti loko mām ajam avyayam (BG 7.25).

Hṛdayānanda: That's our madness.

Prabhupāda: Madness. The whole world is going on on this foolish understanding. Therefore they have been described, mūḍha, all rascals. Anyone who is thinking, "There is no God, there is no Kṛṣṇa, it may be He is impersonal, there is no personality, and I am equal to Him"—these are all rascals, fools.

Dayānanda: So actually there is no way to become detached.

Morning Walk -- March 17, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Within that temple, there will be the tree of planetary system, electric bulb, and they'll move round. And upon that, sun will run. That requires electrical mechanism. (break) ...all side, other, different planets, Vaikuṇṭha-loka.... There will be escalator to go.

Yaśodānandana: I think in some of the Western countries they have these elevators with brass windows all around, so that one can, even though he's going up, he still sees all around. It would be very fascinating for these people.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What to speak of escalators?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What to speak of escalators?

Yaśodānandana: And that light system.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: People will pay just to get on that escalator every day. (laughter)

Pañca-draviḍa: In Los Angeles they have installed a speed walk at the airport, an escalator that you can walk on.

Prabhupāda: So you are not going to Calcutta? Calcutta?

Jayapatākā: I was going to go in a day or two.

Prabhupāda: So there is no news? (break) Of course, if there is devotee. Otherwise not.

Hṛdayānanda: I was thinking perhaps this year to begin with one car.

Prabhupāda: Hm? Yes. Last year, Philadelphia, there was one car. Oh, crowd was.... Like that.

Morning Walk -- March 18, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: And still, they cannot assimilate it, so much, so-called civilized men, they cannot understand even the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), that there is transmigration of the soul, these rascals. And who is tribal chief?

Haṁsadūta: Just to master the language takes twelve years.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Haṁsadūta: What to speak of understanding the content.

Jayapatākā: (break) ...exhibit the farce of modern science.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jayapatākā: Farce of modern science, and every philosophy and science group, where they are just cheating the public. Then exhibit how Kṛṣṇa consciousness is showing the real way.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So do that in this planetarium.

Pañca-draviḍa: That will be very nice.

Prabhupāda: That is...

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Eh? Eh.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Para-dāreṣu, para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat. The.... Is.... It is moral instruction, what to speak of high education. Means it, preliminary moral education. That is,

mātṛvat para-dāreṣu

para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat

ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu

yaḥ paśyati sa paṇḍitaḥ

This is learned. What is the meaning? Explain.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: One who sees...

Prabhupāda: No, no. He'll explain.

Devotee (1): Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu. Para-dāra means "every woman." "Who can see every woman like, like mother..."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk Excerpt -- April 2, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Dilemma.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I mean, it's obvious if it was detrimental to our devotional service, then Prabhupāda would correct it.

Prabhupāda: They cannot also keep clean even Central Park. Then what to speak of Vṛndāvana? Things are becoming very, very...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Here in Vṛndāvana the people also pay taxes?

Prabhupāda: Yes, without tax.... (break)

Tripurāri: ...in the day sometimes, and now they are giving prasādam to the devotees free, without charge. (break) ...stay?

Prabhupāda: They stay at the Rādhā-Dāmodara temple. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Tripurāri: Those are the originals?

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Jaya. Jaya.

Ādi-keśava: (break) ...the devotees are asking one question. They're wanting to know how it was that even though there is so much distance between, let's say, Govardhana and Rādhā-kuṇḍa and Vṛndāvana, Nanda-grāma, Varṣāṇā, how it was that still Kṛṣṇa and Rādhā could go and meet, and the cowherd boys could go and meet at these various places. They could go such great distances.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Pañcadraviḍa: They cannot give anything.

Prabhupāda: Māyāvādī-bhāṣya sunile haya sarva-nāśa (CC Madhya 6.169), finished—his spiritual progress is finished if he associates with a Māyāvādī.

Madhudviṣa: It says in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, even if we look upon the face of a pāṣaṇḍī, we should jump in the river with all our clothes on to become immediately purified, what to speak of giving any aural reception to them. But then again we see that Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu listened, you know, attentively for so many hours to Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya and also Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī. How is it can we understand...?

Prabhupāda: Just to see how the animal is jumping. (to passers-by:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya, jaya. (chuckles) Just like a fish is given freedom, even if he's caught up by the trap. It is like that.

Madhudviṣa: So Lord Caitanya had him on the line all the time.

Prabhupāda: Lord Caitanya was waiting, "Let the rascal go on speaking. How long he can speak?" (laughs)

Hari-śauri: He just waited till he dried up.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. He's foolish. He knows that he has got some limited stock; it will be finished very soon, so "Let him finish, then I shall capture." That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's policy.

Madhudviṣa: But should we take that example or...?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not?

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That "probably" again. That is not possible.

Carol Jarvis: Oh, I don't know. I don't know.

Prabhupāda: You do not know. That is I say. Therefore I say you cannot do it. You do not know it. You cannot manufacture even a small germ, what to speak of pilot. That is the problem. The modern education is they do not know it. "Perhaps," "maybe," this is not scientific proposal.

Guru-kṛpā: Perhaps they can keep you young.

Carol Jarvis: That's just what I was going to say. Perhaps they can build something without giving him...

Prabhupāda: Who is.... Who is...

Carol Jarvis: ...giving him command, a free mind.

Prabhupāda: So suppose if you say, "Perhaps I'll be able to keep my young age continually," is it possible?

Carol Jarvis: I don't know.

Prabhupāda: Then? You don't know. Then learn it. It is not possible. You must become an old lady. (laughter)

Carol Jarvis: How do you know?

Prabhupāda: Yes, I know. You know also. You are denying only. You know that you shall become...

Room Conversation -- May 1, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: Yes. They're eating meat. They have no even human sense. What is that religion? They have no even sense that "I am cutting throat of one poor animal under my protection. If somebody cuts my throat, how much I am unhappy. And I'm doing the same business and I'm human being? How can I call myself a human being? I have no sense even of compassion." Cats and dogs are passing on as religionists. Some hogs and pigs are going on as philosopher. And other animals is going as scientist, Darwin. They're animals only, cats and dogs. They are the leaders of the society. How you can expect any benefit from them? The leaders themselves are cats and dogs, pigs. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). These leaders, they are saṁstutaḥ, they are very much worshiped. By whom? Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ. By the dogs, by the pigs, by the.... śva-viḍ-varāha..., camel, and by the ass. Because these particular names, I have explained in the Bhāgavata... So suppose one man has become lion, and he's praised by dogs, camels, asses, and pigs. Naturally, they will praise, "Oh, sir, you are the king." Does it mean he's king? He's animal. So it is going on. They are electing a big animal as president. And when he begins to eat, animal, big animal, then they protest, "Oh, now he's not proper president. Get him down, get him down." But why you sent him? "Because we are pigs; we have no other knowledge. We another, appoint another big pig as our president." Everything is explained in the Vedic literature. If you can present them properly, it will act. The voters are śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-khara. And the president is another big animal. That's all. This is transaction of animal kingdom. A lion is the king of some asses, pigs, dogs, and hogs. What business you can expect there? This is their real picture. One who is a human being, he's seeing that how the animals are enjoying by voting and electing president. But they are thinking, "We are busy in a very great business. We are electing president." (laughter) This is going on. (break) ...you say that these rascal pigs, hogs, they elected president, and this president will eat them, and they will understand what kind of president they have elected. This thing is happening in the most advanced country of USA. And what to speak of other animal kingdom. Even the topmost state at the present moment, there also is happening the same thing. And what to speak of other small states.

Room Conversation -- May 1, 1976, Fiji:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "...I am speaking to you this most confidential part of knowledge. Hear this from Me, for it is for your benefit."

Prabhupāda: "That is especial friendship and especial love; so I give you this. Keep it confidential." This is real. Other rascals will not value this. They will protest, "Huh? Why shall I surrender to Kṛṣṇa?"

Guru-kṛpā: So what is that confidential?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65).

Prabhupāda: Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). "So we have spoken so many other things for other rascals. But you are My friend, very intimate. I tell you, this is real fact." So fact is fact. If you take earlier or later, that is different thing. You have to come. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). One has to take many births before coming to this understanding. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. So everyone is not mahātmā even, what to speak of sudurlabhaḥ. (laughs) (end)

Room Conversation with Siddha-svarupa -- May 3, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: No, it will go, because they are becoming more mūḍhas. There is no intelligence. Therefore I say that we are giving this intelligence. This is the only movement to make these mūḍhas intelligent. This is the only movement. Otherwise they are becoming more and more and more and more mūḍhas. So under the circumstances, if we also become mūḍhas, then who will make the other mūḍhas intelligent? That is my point. There are so many things. I'll begin this, I mean to say, recitation of Sixth Canto. There are so many nice instructions. So this... (break)...even they are kept to remain as mūḍhas, all other so-called attempts... There are many other attempts for awakening the human society to right platform, but their basic principle is wrong. They cannot do it. It is not possible. (pause) So there is no kīrtana?

Guru-kṛpā: Yeah. At seven. The āratika is at seven. Ten minutes. Now it's tulasī worship.

Prabhupāda: So this movement should be pushed very vigorously. And so far, we have become successful. And enemies will be always, as soon as there is something good. That is the way of material world. Even Kṛṣṇa had enemies, what to speak of us. Eh? So many enemies, but He was powerful; He killed all them. Nobody could kill Him, but there was attempt to kill Him from the very beginning of His birth. He had so many enemies. As soon as Kaṁsa heard that his sister is now newly married, but as soon as there was some foretelling, "Ah, you are taking care of your sister so nicely. The eighth child of this sister will kill you." "Oh, where is your child? Where is pregnancy?" Nothing. He became angry. "So why wait for eighth child? Kill my sister." Long, long before taking birth of Kṛṣṇa, the mother was to be killed. This is the position of this material world. So he became so bad that "My sister..." He did not consider that "She is my sister, and she is just newly married. Where is pregnancy? Where is child? And that is the eighth child, and what will happen after that?" No consideration. Immediately, "Kill him, kill her." This is the position. So we are instructing: no intoxication. So those who are flourishing by selling cigarettes and wine and liquor, they do not... "Immediately kill him." Oh, yes, in this way. "If they, the movement goes and becomes very strong, then our business will be lost. Kill him." So naturally they will be enemies. The same thing, the Kaṁsa saw that "This my sister, now she is married. So although it will take some long time, but here is the cause." So they are thinking like that. No meat-eating, then all slaughterhouses will be closed:

Room Conversation with Siddha-svarupa -- May 3, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: 11.34, that is good rate. So I wish that... We should combine the work very vigorously when this (indistinct). They are just like women, equal in preaching (indistinct). You keep some women together, and they fight. The children together, they will fight. Dogs together, they will fight. Sane man, why they will fight? Where is the cause of fight? Then you are (indistinct) to become woman. Worse. This material world is such that even you keep some utensil together, when dealing, tung, tung, tung, tung, tung, what to speak of individuals souls. But our cause is the common, how to push on. That soberness must be there. I can give you points, instructions, you will have to put it into shape; otherwise how it will go on?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We can understand that Your Divine Grace does not want factions.

Prabhupāda: That will better the movement.

Guru-kṛpā: Sometimes, Śrīla Prabhupāda, it just seems there is a... The (indistinct) is that there seems to be a difference in the way Kṛṣṇa consciousness is being...

Prabhupāda: Why different?

Guru-kṛpā: Well, there's only one way...

Prabhupāda: So now why there should be different? The formula is there. Why there should be difference?

Guru-kṛpā: Then there is someone who's not doing it properly according to the...

Room Conversation -- Honolulu, May 20, 1976 :

Prabhupāda: People are so intelligent that when the representative of Kṛṣṇa speaks, they (indistinct) enemies, and sometimes they crucify, kill. So people are so kind that they are not killing. Otherwise, why Christ, (indistinct) was killed? What fault? What is his fault? Just see. Was there any fault in his words? He advised, "Don't kill," and he was crucified. We have to deal with such rascals. I may be representative, but he is directly son of God. People are so rascal that they did not believe even the son of God, what to speak of His representative. What is that? Why Jesus Christ was killed? What was his fault? People are (indistinct). What the Christians will ask? Therefore we are (indistinct) and not only that, they have been giving this idea that "For our sinful reaction Christ has taken contract, so let him suffer being killed(?)." Cow-killing is very, very sin, "That's all right; don't mind. Christ will suffer." How easy understanding they have.

Devotee (2): They...

Prabhupāda: Huh?.

Devotee (2): They call it love.

Prabhupāda: This is love? If you say, "Prabhupāda, I love you. Now I want to kill you. Now I will kill you." Please don't love me! (laughter) Please get out. "I love you so much that I will kill you."

Devotee (2): They like to keep the, Christ, the deity of Christ, they keep him nailed on the cross. They think that's very...

Prabhupāda: Therefore you see all the pictures in the Church, he is carrying the cross, and he is pushing, pushed by the government men. How miserable condition they show.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: ...that the trees and plants, they have got life? Do they accept or not?

Hari-śauri: Yes. They say they've recorded different types of living symptoms in plants and what have you. They see how plants react to different stimulus. And there's experiments that they actually react out of fear. They show symptoms of fear.

Prabhupāda: So, they have soul or not?

Hari-śauri: Well, they say that the human beings haven't got a soul, so what to speak of animals and plants.

Prabhupāda: What do they mean by soul?

Hari-śauri: (laughs) They don't mean anything. They think it's all just chemical reaction. But nowadays they're doing more research into things like telepathy and what they call ESP, extra-sensory perception. Rather than just put it down to basic chemical reactions, they're thinking that there's something on a more subtle platform.

Prabhupāda: What is that platform?

Hari-śauri: It's what they call ESP, extra-sensory perception, something that you can't see but it's still there, the influence of the mind over material objects.

Morning Walk -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). Yes, that's nice.

Rāmeśvara: (Maharishi Mahesh) Yogi, he tried to file a trademark on the words "Transcendental Meditation" with the United States government. So we protested that actually he cannot claim that he is teaching transcendental meditation, what to speak of prohibiting anyone else from using those words. So they accepted our claim and kicked out his application.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: They were writing, their lawyers were writing our Society letters that "You cannot use the words 'Transcendental Meditation.' Maharishi has made up this process and you are stealing from him."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's stealing from Kṛṣṇa.

Bharadvāja: Yesterday you gave an example of a man who was lying asleep in bed, and he is transported somewhere in dream, walking on the beach. What is the full...? Because we're going to try to make an exhibit of it. So what is the full analogy? Is he actually going to another place by his mind, he's actually transported?

Morning Walk -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Why Kṛṣṇa? Everyone knows. Suppose you have got this body; next body he's a dog. I can say you'll bark.

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: What you'll do? That's all. What to speak of Kṛṣṇa; I can say.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That was Satsvarūpa's question, Satsvarūpa Mahārāja's question.

Prabhupāda: No, this is the answer. Kṛṣṇa's position is always the same. He knows past, present and future.

Rāmeśvara: This is Karandhara's problem, this point of philosophy. He cannot understand it. His argument is that he is having so much trouble due to his sense attraction. And Kṛṣṇa gave him the sense attraction, or Kṛṣṇa gave him senses; now he is having trouble controlling his senses. But he argues that Kṛṣṇa knows everything, so Kṛṣṇa knew that he would have trouble controlling his senses; therefore why did Kṛṣṇa give him senses?

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense.

Rāmeśvara: He says Kṛṣṇa is playing games.

Prabhupāda: I have given you charge of this BBT, millions of dollars you are dealing, but it is not for your misuse. As soon as you misuse, that is your responsibility.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, but he says but still, you'll know that I'm going to misuse it.

Morning Walk -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, no, machine we are, but still there is independence. That means you are not absolutely independently, relatively. The state, you say we are American-independent. But that does not mean you can do whatever you like. As soon as you misuse, you are arrested, punished. Even the president is not independent. As soon as he misused his power, drag him, "Come out." What to speak of you.

Hari-śauri: That's like an impersonalist. He doesn't want any individual existence.

Prabhupāda: And he does not agree to be guided by the supreme controller. He does not agree that He is supreme controller. "I am everything." Therefore they are called mūḍhas, māyayāpahṛta-jñānāḥ (BG 7.15). Mūḍha. He's being controlled. As soon as there is some toothache, he goes to the doctor. And he says "I am God." He's becoming old, and he says that "I am God." Why you are becoming old? God is always young.

Rāmeśvara: He has another argument. He says that he's in the grip of māyā.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: So even though he wants to go back to Godhead, he cannot be freed from the influence of māyā. Māyā is keeping him.

Prabhupāda: Unless you are fully surrender, sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66), you cannot do it. Māyā will not leave you.

Rāmeśvara: But in order to fully surrender, you have to be free from māyā.

Garden Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: He is addressing his friends, "born of demoniac families, my dear friends." (laughs) Give him one chair, Dr. Wolfe. Yes, that's nice. He used to address his father also as "the best of the demons." Once his father asked him, "My dear son, what nice lesson you have learned in the school? Please tell me." So he addressed his father, asura-vārya, "the best of the asuras."

tat sādhu manye 'sura-vārya dehināṁ

sadā samudvigna-dhiyam asad-grahāt

hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ

vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta

(SB 7.5.5)

So, "My dear father," not "father," "the best of the asuras," asurya-vārya, the chief asura, "in my opinion," tat sādhu manye, "I think, so far I have studied," tat sādhu manye, "I think that is very nice, very honest profession of occupation for persons who are always full of anxieties." In the material world everyone is full of anxiety. That's a fact. Even in your country, the President Nixon, he was full of anxiety while he was in office, and now, out of his office, he's also full of anxiety. So just see. This is the best man in your country, president, the foremost man. So if he is full of anxiety, the others naturally... Everyone. So what is the cause of the anxiety? Asad-grahāt. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyam asad-grahāt. Asat means that does not exist, "not eternal," it is just opposite. Eternal is called sat, om tat sat, and asat means just the opposite. So here in this material world everything is asat. Even this body is asat; it will not exist. And what to speak of other things with reference to the body. Everything is asat. Anything material is asat; it will not stay, either these trees or this land or this world or this country or this, anything, asat.

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: They say that as the population increases in the cities, there must be rioting and fighting. There will be so many people without the minimum necessities of life, so much exploitation of the rich upper class.

Prabhupāda: Why not go to New Vrindaban? That they will not do.

Rāmeśvara: There is no training how to live in New Vrindaban. They are educated only to live in the cities and work like mūḍhas. Even now.... One of the biggest problems that they're predicting is unemployment. They cannot...

Prabhupāda: Yes. In America it has begun, what to speak of other countries.

Hṛdayānanda: Worse in other countries.

Rāmeśvara: Today there are many articles in the papers that college students graduate and cannot find any jobs, so their degree is useless.

Prabhupāda: This.... This was the problem in India, and now it is also in America. (break)

Mahendra: Graduating with Ph.D.'s and then becoming truck drivers.

Candanācārya: Śrīla Prabhupāda said years ago that our colleges are producing beggars. They get a degree and then they beg.

Prabhupāda: Śūdras and beggar.

Interview with Jackie Vaughn (Black Congressman) -- July 12, 1976, Detroit:

Hari-śauri: Nobody's got any?

Prabhupāda: Idea of God, and what to speak of faith in God, or trust in God.

Jackie Vaughn: It's true. Very little faith. "In God We Trust," your original statement.

Hari-śauri: Prabhupāda wrote one letter to the secretary of the President explaining that you write on your bills "In God We Trust," but who is it that knows about God? So he was asking if it was possible for the government, they could give us some aid and we would educate. We can educate the people.

Prabhupāda: No, I did not ask for any aid.

Hari-śauri: Oh. If they would...

Prabhupāda: You can get the copy. I never asked for any aid.

Hari-śauri: No, I didn't mean monetary or anything like that. (pause)

Prabhupāda: Read it.

Room Conversation with Mother and Sons -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Because they are spiritually enlightened. That is the cause of brightness. And materially involved-moroseness. Because it is ignorance. Material life means life of ignorance. And spiritual life means life of enlightenment. That is the difference. Material life is called tamas. Tamas means darkness. Tamaso mā jyotir gamaya. This is the Vedic mantra. Don't remain in darkness. But people cannot understand. "I am living in the light. Why I'm darkness?" Darkness means without any spiritual enlightenment. That is darkness. So the Vedic injunction is "Don't remain in darkness. Come to the light." The light is my spiritual life, and material life means darkness. Because he does not know what is going to happen next. You are under the laws of material nature. The nature will act according to the association you make, exactly. You do not know that you are infecting some contagious disease. You may not know it, but it will act. In due course of time, you'll develop that disease and suffer. Similarly, without knowledge, in ignorance, imperceptibly we are associating with a certain law of nature, and we shall be victimized. We may not know it, but we shall be victimized. That is the life of ignorance. A child does not know that if he touches the fire it will burn and it will cause some disease, some sore. He does not know. But he, somehow or other, if he touches fire, these things will come. This is the life of ignorance. You do something, you do not know what is the effect. But the effect will come, and you'll have to suffer. You know or not know, it doesn't matter. That is ignorance. Life of darkness. The Christian theologicians, they say that "Why shall I suffer for my...?" They do not believe in the karma, fruitive activity. But that means ignorance. They have no sufficient knowledge. Karma is there and effect is there, but they do not know it. Poor fund of knowledge. Therefore it is failing. They have failed, these Christian priest, to explain everything philosophically. So advanced Westerners, they are now educated in science philosophy, they are not attracted with these dogmatic views. So to remain in ignorance is animal life. To be enlightened is human life. And the topmost enlightenment is to understand God and to love Him. That is the topmost enlightenment. Unfortunately, there is no education to know what is God, and what to speak of loving Him.

Room Conversation with Mother and Sons -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Yes, put this chemical together and bring life. Where is the life? We ask, prepare one egg. You can analyze the white part and the yellow part of the egg, and you find some chemical properties. You bring them together and put in the same layer and everything. Now produce life. Where is that science? Simply talking. "Yes, we shall do. We are trying." Nonsense, trying. What is the use of trying? It is already there. God sent egg through the chicken; it will produce life. So why you are wasting your time in this way? Rather, try to understand the person who has got such a brain that within this chemical composition there is life. You cannot do it; therefore you inferior. Somebody has done it. Even if you say "Nature has done it," nature is then powerful. You are not even to the level of nature, what to speak of God. Nature is only one of the energies of God. You cannot understand even the energy. How you will understand the energetic?

Hari-śauri: It's difficult to understand how they could possibly say that there's no intelligence.

Prabhupāda: That is their.... Therefore we say these are all rascals. Therefore generally I say this very strong word, but that is the only word to be used for them. Rascals, simply rascals. We have no business with them that we have to flatter. "No, no, sir," you have to be saying "a great scientist." We say you are rascals. That's all. Straight, blunt. Four annas worth. (break)

Hari-śauri: I saw a lot of Indians walking around this morning even.

Prabhupāda: In our garden? Yes, they have found a good place, temple.

Hari-śauri: It's a fact. This is the best place in all of Detroit.

Prabhupāda: And if you purchase that land, it will be very beautiful.

Mādhavānanda: Oh, yes.

Room Conversation with George Gullen, President of Wayne State University -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

George Gullen: These are difficult words to understand, but I appreciate them.

Prabhupāda: Therefore dhīra.... Dhīras tatra, dhīra means sober gentleman. Dhīra. Dhīra means gentleman. So if one does not understand this simple truth, he's not even a gentleman, what to speak of learned scholar. Dhīras tatra na muhyati. That means every gentleman must have this education. And what is the use? What is the meaning of dhīra?

Hari-śauri: Sober.

Satsvarūpa: Learned.

Prabhupāda: That is gentleman. So one who does not understand this philosophy of life is not fit to be addressed as gentleman. It is commonsense knowledge.

George Gullen: My father used to speak of the Oversoul that I think had some similarity to these words that we just read, that the soul that is...

Prabhupāda: We call Supersoul, that is God. The idea is in Christianity also, "Holy Ghost" like that. Supersoul and the ordinary soul. We living entities, we are ordinary souls, and God in His all-pervading feature, He is Supersoul. Find out this verse: kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata.

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: You have to learn from a superior person.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But now there is distinction between two types of knowledge. If knowledge means understanding...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Any knowledge, if you want to get it, you must receive it from a superior person. That is the law. That I already explained. If you want to steal, if you want to become a thief, you have to learn it from an expert thief. So any knowledge. Knowledge means you have to learn it from a superior person. And what to speak of the knowledge of God. That is the ultimate knowledge. Yesterday we were speaking that Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja learned how to make samosas. Now that knowledge is distributed. So every knowledge, you have to learn it from an expert. That is called guru. Guru means expert. Heavy. Who's knowledge is heavier than your scanty knowledge. You have to learn knowledge. Guru means heavy. Therefore Vedic injunction is tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). You must. Abhigacchet, this word is used when the sense is "must." Not optional, that I may go or I may not go. No, you must. This is Vedic injunction.

Devotee (2): We can see practically everyone understands that if they want to be a chemist, they study under another chemist, or a doctor goes to study from some doctor. Why they don't approach a spiritual master for religious knowledge? Why do they think they can do it by themselves?

Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness.

Kīrtanānanda: That idea has been encouraged by rascals.

Prabhupada Visits Palace and Garden -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Kīrtanānanda: Then we find so many purported religious people. Just like Christians, they may say "Well, I believe in the soul," but nonetheless they are going on with their materialistic civilization.

Prabhupāda: That means you do not know seriously what is soul. You have simply an idea, but you do not know in detail. Just like they say, the Christians, "God is great." But they do not know who is God and what is the meaning of greatness. That they do not know. They accept this theoretically or religious sentimentally, "God is great." Just like your state says, "In God We Trust." As soon as I inquire what kind of trust and to whom, there is no reply. That means they do not know what is God, what is trust. As a matter of slogan they write, that's all. Even the state heads, and what to speak of the nonsense ordinary citizens. Seriously taking, it is very important question. They should have reply. But they do not know how to reply.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: With all of the situations that take place in the material world, they may not be able to see how God is actually active in the material world, that whether there's a war or whether...

Prabhupāda: Well, that you should.... Why you should remain in ignorance how God is acting? If you are serious about God, then you must know. Just like a statesman, he knows how government is acting. Ordinary man, he knows government is acting, but he does not know how government is acting. But advanced in knowledge, they know what is the constitution, how the government is acting. That is the difference. Therefore lawyer is appointed when there is some trouble. He can find out where is the defect. That is advancement of knowledge. (end)

Garden Conversation -- June 23, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Demons.

Kulādri: When your palace is on the other side, they won't disturb. And we will have walls.

Prabhupāda: No, they don't like us.

Kulādri: They are doing better than before, but still they are somewhat envious.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere this world is like that. Even the father will give trouble, Prahlāda Mahārāja, what to speak of others. Demon father is giving trouble to a Vaiṣṇava son. And not grown-up son, five years old, innocent, but he's giving trouble.

Devotee (3): When we had sickness the state police became very interested in us, and today a state policeman stopped me and asked if you were here. So he seems to be paying special attention that you are here now. He's very interested.

Prabhupāda: However demon may be, they can appreciate that these are ideal characters.

Devotee (4): All these state police, they purchase Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee (4): All these state police, they purchased Bhagavad-gītā. (sound of motorcycle comes very close, idles) (end)

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: One time, one boy said that. So as soon as he said it, I picked up a stick and went like that "Oh!" and said "See, you are afraid." And he said, "No, I'm not afraid." So I went—and he was showing fear.

Prabhupāda: Even dog is afraid, what to speak of man. The animals, when they are taken to be slaughtered, they cry. So animal is afraid of death, why not man? Everyone is afraid.

Kuladri: Prabhupāda? They say why do you worry so much about death? We are living. We are enjoying life, why do you worry about death?

Prabhupāda: Because we are intelligent. I love you. Therefore you'll die and you'll become a dog, so I am taking sympathy on you that "Don't become a dog." Every human being is anxious. The example is given just like a child flying kite and is going this way, this way, on the roof. Now on the edge of the roof, so one gentleman standing, "Hey, you'll fall down." That is his duty. He says, "Why you are checking me?" (laughter) "Why you are checking me?" "Because I am human being. You are foolish boy. Therefore I am checking you." That is natural. Even a child, or the boy is not his son, but because he is a gentleman, he wants to give him some protection. It is the duty of gentleman. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said to the Indians, that "You become perfect and go and give this knowledge to the rest of the world. They are all rascals." Bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra (CC Adi 9.41). It is para-upakāra, humanitarian. You may say "Why do you bother?" But as a human being, I bother. Every human being will do that. Kṛṣṇa comes, bothering Himself. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). "When these have become rascals, fools, I come, again advise them." So those who are servants of God, they are also doing the same thing, on behalf of God. Their position is therefore exalted. They should be worshiped as God because they are doing the work of God. They are not cheating public. So improve this farming very nicely. So the cows, they should be given as much as possible pasturing. If you simply drink little milk, and little vegetables, that will supply all vitamins. You do not require to take vitamin pills. No, there is no need. It has got all the vitamins. That is admitted. Vitamin A, D, in milk, they say... And fruits, vitamin C. In this way, in fruits, vegetables, grains, milk, all vitamins are there.

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: When they heard in the hell there is no newspaper, then came to the idea, "Oh, it is horrible." Otherwise, cold, dark, "Oh, this is our custom. We are already accustomed to these habits, we are working in the mine. So don't make any distinction between hell and our present residential quarters. But if there is no newspaper, certainly that is hell."

Pradyumna:

naiṣkarmyam apy acyuta-bhāva-varjitaṁ

na śobhate jñānam alaṁ nirañjanam

kutaḥ punaḥ śaśvad abhadram īśvare

na cārpitaṁ karma yad apy akāraṇam

"Knowledge of self-realization, even though freed from all material affinity, does not look well if devoid of a conception of the infallible God. What then is the use of fruitive activities, which are naturally painful from the very beginning and transient by nature if they are not utilized for the devotional service of the Lord?" Purport. "As referred to above, not only ordinary literatures devoid of the transcendental glorification of the Lord are condemned, but also Vedic literatures and speculation on the subject of impersonal Brahman when they are devoid of devotional service. When speculation on the impersonal Brahman is condemned on the above ground, then what to speak of ordinary fruitive work, which is not meant to fulfill the aim of devotional service. Such speculative knowledge and fruitive work cannot lead one to the goal of perfection. Fruitive work, in which almost all people in general are engaged, is always painful, either in the beginning or at the end. It can only be fruitful when made subservient to the devotional service of the Lord. In the Bhagavad-gītā also it is confirmed that the result of such fruitive work may be offered for the service of the Lord, otherwise it leads to material bondage.

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: "Whatever you desire to describe which is separate in vision from the Lord simply reacts with different forms, names and results to agitate the mind, as the wind agitates a boat which has no resting place." Purport. "Śrī Vyāsadeva is the editor of all descriptions of the Vedic literatures, and thus he has described transcendental realization in different ways, namely by fruitive activities, speculative knowledge, mystic power and devotional service. Besides that, in his various Purāṇas he has recommended the worship of so many demigods in different forms and names. The result is that people in general are puzzled how to fix up their minds in the service of the Lord. They are always disturbed to find out the real path of self-realization. Śrīla Nāradadeva is stressing this particular defect in the Vedic literatures compiled by Vyāsadeva, and thus he is trying to emphasize describing everything in relation with the Supreme Lord and no one else. In fact there is nothing existent except the Lord. The Lord is manifested in different expansions. He is the root of the complete tree. He is the stomach of the complete body. As such, pouring water on the root is the right process to water the tree, as much as feeding the stomach supplies energy to all parts of the body. Śrīla Vyāsadeva should not have compiled any Purāṇas other than the Bhāgavata Purāṇa, because a slight deviation from that may create havoc for self-realization. If a slight deviation can create such havoc, then what to speak of deliberate expansion of the separatist idea from the Absolute Truth, Personality of Godhead? The most defective part of worshiping demigods is that it creates a definite conception of pantheism, ending disastrously in many religious sects detrimental to the progress of the principles of the Bhāgavatam, which alone can give the accurate direction for self-realization in eternal relation with the Personality of Godhead by devotional service in transcendental love. The example of the boat disturbed by whirling wind is suitable in this respect. The diverted mind of the pantheist can never reach to the perfection of self-realization due to the disturbed condition of the selections of object."

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: And kṣamā, pardon. Then?

Pradyumna: Dayā.

Prabhupāda: Dayā, mercifulness. People will have no mercy. It has already begun. If somebody is attacked, being killed, nobody takes care; he goes in his own way. There is no mercy. There is no mercy to the animals. Now there is no mercy even to one child, one's own child, they killing. Just see how degraded, dayā. What to speak of no dayā, no mercy for the animals—all right, you are not so advanced—but the mother's mercy to the child will be diminished. This is foretelling. This is called tri-kala-jñā. Who expected that mother will kill the child? But Vyāsadeva, five thousand years ago, said, "Yes, mercy will be reduced." Then?

Pradyumna: Āyur.

Prabhupāda: Āyur, duration of life. The maximum duration of life in Kali-yuga is hundred years, but who is living hundred years? It is being reduced, and it will be so reduced that if a man would live twenty years, he is an old man. It will come to that stage. Now it reducing, from hundred years to ninety years to eighty years.

Hari-śauri: The average is seventy-three years now.

Prabhupāda: Seventy, then sixty then fifty. In this way, if a man lives from twenty to thirty years he will be considered grand old man. These are the symptoms, āyur. Then?

Pradyumna: Balam.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Then? It is the same thing. Suppose Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja has brought this car, so he says, "All of you can come." So I go, you go, does it mean that you and your spiritual master is equal? Do you think like that? It is same thing. Everyone can go to Godhead, there is no doubt, but still there is difference between brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, śūdras. So far going into the car, the equal right is there, but it does not mean that your spiritual master or the next group, they are not greater than you. Don't think like that. The same car, Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja is driving, I am also there, you are also there. Does it mean that we are all equal? There must be gradation. The right is given to everyone. It does not mean that immediately they become all one. It is Kṛṣṇa's mercy that He accepted everyone, "Come on." But the distinction is there. We are inviting everyone to partake Kṛṣṇa prasādam. That does not mean that immediately all of them have become of the equal rank. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He was so kind, but still there was distinction. When He was taking prasādam, personal associates, they were sitting with Him. Is it not? So this is called maryādā. Maryādā means honor. That must... Varieties must be there. Otherwise we become Māyāvādīs—everything is equal, all one. This is Māyāvāda philosophy. No varieties. There must be variety. That is Vaiṣṇava philosophy. And as soon as you make it varietyless, all equal, that is Māyāvāda. Just see even in this flower, this is also flower and this is also flower. Does it mean they are of the same rank? This is understanding. Together they look very beautiful, but if you take separate value, then it is valuable than this flower. That distinction must be there. If somebody says "I am accepting even the leaf in this garland," then what to speak of rose? It is like that. Kṛṣṇa says that. That does not mean leaf and rose have the same value. One is making a beautiful garland, "I am accepting everything." Mixed together it looks very nice, but individually the leaf has value, the rose has value, the flower has value. Not that because they are put together they have equal value. This is Vaiṣṇava philosophy.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the way of life, that by reformatory process recommended in the śāstras one should be elevated to the position of brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśyas, and śūdra. Śudra means one who cannot take any reformation. But one who can take up the reformation, he can be situated as a brāhmaṇa, as a kṣatriya, as a vaiśya. This is not by birth, but by education, by training. That is recommended for the all human society. Not for the Hindus or... Otherwise, why Kṛṣṇa says pāpa-yoni? Pāpa-yoni. Striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās. They are also taken as pāpa-yoni. And what to speak of the śūdras and caṇḍālas? They must be pāpa-yoni. Only the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, they are taken as highly elevated. But nowadays, kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. In this age you cannot distinguish who is brāhmaṇa, who is kṣatriya, who is a vaiśya, who is a śūdra. It is accepted that everyone is a śūdra because there is no reformation. So according to Pāñcarātriki-vidhi everyone should be given the chance of becoming a Vaiṣṇava, a dvija. And that is recommendation in the Hari-bhakti-vilāsa, that by the proper initiation process everyone can be brought into the platform of dvija, twice-born, and then he becomes... After initiation, his second birth is there. Saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. Then he's allowed to read the scripture. Veda-pathād bhaved vipraḥ. He becomes vipra. Then when he really comes to the knowledge of Brahman, his relationship with Brahman, and acts accordingly, then he is brāhmaṇa. And when he is perfectly situated in the eternal relationship with God, Viṣṇu, then he becomes a Vaiṣṇava. That is perfection of life.

Room Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Yes, I'll go. So you have given them some prasādam?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We arranged for that.

Prabhupāda: Give them. They have come from distant place. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Jaya Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Jaya. Lord Śiva became victimized by woman, what to speak of others? I am thinking of that boy also, Paramahaṁsa. He was a nice boy.

Hari-śauri: Very much so.

Prabhupāda: Do you know where is Paramahaṁsa now?

Rādhāvallabha: He's in Denver, Colorado. He's not doing so good.

Prabhupāda: Is it not possible to see him?

Rādhāvallabha: Trivikrama Mahārāja went to see him, but he was too much in illusion.

Prabhupāda: No, that's all right. Still, I want to see.

Rādhāvallabha: You?

Prabhupāda: He was very good boy.

Rādhāvallabha: You want us to get the message to him that he should try to come to New York to see you?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Rādhāvallabha: I'll try and get that message to him, to come to New York Ratha-yātrā.

Prabhupāda: He was very nice boy.

Rādhāvallabha: Leads nice kīrtana.

Prabhupāda: Māyā is so strong. Lord Śiva is not excused, what to speak of others.

Rādhāvallabha: I have three sketches from the artists. Would you like to see them? This is for Eighth Canto, Volume One.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the only life, to think of publication and distribution.

Rādhāvallabha: This keeps me alive. If I didn't have this service, I think I would just die.

Prabhupāda: Even in this weak... I am very weak nowadays. Still, I am working.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Nicely.

Prabhupāda: I think I shall not be able to go for walks. This morning my heart was beating too much.

Hari-śauri: It's very strenuous.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Best would be, then, to rest, perhaps up until at least until Washington and see, because in Washington there may be a very suitable situation. It's hard to walk on these roads also. They are very rough, and the altitude is high.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That we will do. Yes.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: The more you go higher planetary system, the standard of living is many, many thousand times better than this. Many, many thousand times.

Rūpānuga: We can't even imagine it now.

Hari-śauri: What to speak of the spiritual world.

Prabhupāda: Just suppose here are stones, there are pearls. You cannot imagine.

Hari-śauri: Lying on the roadside. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...Western scientists, philosophers, they are all Dr. Frogs. They simply calculating three feet water, that's all. As soon as you speak to them about Atlantic Ocean, they say, "Oh, it is impossible." Froggish brain. (break) ...word has come, kūpa-māṇḍūkya-nyāya, the frog in the well.

Hari-śauri: Prabhupāda, is that example also given in the Bhāgavatam? Frog in the well? Sometimes you use all these different examples, and they are all there in the Bhāgavatam. I was just wondering if this frog in the well was also there.

Prabhupāda: No.

Hari-śauri: You use very graphic examples; they're very perfect.

Prabhupāda: No, my Guru Mahārāja used to use to place so many examples, (laughs) I do not know all of them. No, there is a book, Nyāya-śāstra, logic. You'll find all these things.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: These are miracles, that's all. It has no value. People are after miracles. So in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajante 'nya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20). Those who are worshipers of other demigods, they are hṛta-jñānāḥ. Hṛta-jñānāḥ. Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura gives his comment, hṛta-jñānāḥ naṣṭa buddhayaḥ, one who has lost his intelligence. So by worshiping the demigod Kali he is to be considered as hṛta-jñānāḥ, one who has lost his intelligence—and he becomes God. Is it possible? One who has lost his intelligence, he becomes God. With that lost intelligence. And this is the proof that on account of lost intelligence, he says yata mata tata pat. Kṛṣṇa says mām ekam. Sarva dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). And when he became Ramakrishna, same Kṛṣṇa is speaking, yata mata tata pat. So he has changed his view. We have to accept this? And how he gave up his wife, that's a long history, I don't wish to discuss. We know everything. So we cannot accept something which is beyond the instruction of śāstra.

yaḥ śāstra vidhim utsṛjya

vartate kāma kārataḥ

na sa siddhim avāpnoti

na sukhaṁ na parāṁ gatim

(BG 16.23)

If you have no knowledge of the śāstra, then you'll never be successful in your spiritual life, what to speak of happiness and liberation. It is not possible.

Indian woman: Is Mirabai Lord Caitanya's disciple?

Evening Darsana -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes, bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindaṁ bhaja govindam...

Guest (3): Vande Kṛṣṇa jagat-guru.

Prabhupāda: So he's the leader of the impersonalists, he accepts kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). Sa bhagavān svayam kṛṣṇa. Then what to speak of the Vaiṣṇava ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya. Rāmānujācārya has given Bhagavad-gītā comments, every line Vedic evidence. You read Bhagavad-gītā commented by Rāmānujācārya, you'll find every line he has quoted from Vedas. So there is no doubt about it. Simply one has to study very intelligently about Kṛṣṇa, then he will come to the conclusion that He is God.

Guest (4) (Indian man): I'd like to ask a question, but I'm a little bit timid about doing so, but I will ask it. Would it be possible to think of.... Well, first I have to say that I tend to think of religions as personalities. Would it be possible...

Prabhupāda: Why?

Guest (3): All the religions.

Prabhupāda: No, no, why you think like that? You are not authority.

Guest (4): I merely say that I do. I don't say that I'm right to do so. I don't say why, I simply do.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Prabhupāda: Therefore in Vedic civilization they keep, they have more than one wife. So what is the use of killing? Why one should kill? We find from the history, Dhruva Mahārāja's mother and stepmother, there were some critical words, and Dhruva Mahārāja became very, very angry. So the critical words and wives, different wives, that may be, but why one should cut off the head? Dhruva Mahārāja's mother said when Dhruva Mahārāja began to cry before the mother, mother said "My dear child, what can I do? How can I help you? Your father does not care for me, even as maidservant, what to speak of I am queen, I am the senior queen. So this gentleman does not care of me even as maidservant. How can I help you? If God helps you, then..." That was her statement. So that does not mean because the king did not like, she should be beheaded. What is this nonsense? If he is,(?)... may be... After all, he is king. He may not like first wife. Actually, there was no scarcity of comfort, but liking may not be, but that does not mean that she shouldn't be accepted as wife. Kings were allowed to marry more than one wife. Why to accept another wife means another wife should be killed? What is this? Everything nonsense. King can marry more than one wife. And at the time of marriage they were given so many woman. Because the woman population is greater than the man, always. So when the King is married, along with the queen, many other friends of the queen they would go with the king. They live in the same palace, same palace. Sometimes they had children, dāsī-putra. Just like Vidura. Vidura was not queen's son. One of these women friends. So that was allowed.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Vṛṣākapi: Not in the ISKCON society, though.

Prabhupāda: In the Kali-yuga one cannot maintain even one wife, what to speak of more than one. They are afraid to marry one wife. I first heard this, one elderly lady in New York. At that time, I was newcomer. I asked her, "Why don't you get your son married?" "Yes, he can be married, provided he can maintain wife," she said. So these things were unknown to us. In India, whether he'll be able to maintain... Just like I was married when I was third-year student. Where is the income? There is no income, but still I was married.

Hari-śauri: That was formerly the Western system, that the prospective son-in-law would be checked first to see whether he would be able to maintain the girl.

Prabhupāda: No, that is everywhere. But expectation, he is educated, he'll be able. The first thing is in due time, either the girl or the boy must be married, that is Indian system. In due time. Boy not exceeding twenty years or twenty-five years, at most, and girl not exceeding fifteen years, sixteen years, must be. Saṁskāra, this is one of the saṁskāras. Just like garbhādhāna-saṁskāra, this is also one saṁskāra, and marriage is also saṁskāra. Must be married. Daśa-vidha-saṁskāra, ten kinds of saṁskāras, out of which marriage is one of the saṁskāras. And kanyā-dāya. Kanyā-dāya, dāya means by law the father is bound to get his daughter married, by law. He cannot escape the responsibility. This is father's duty.

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Now you were referring to the Vedic principle, but that does not mean you have to open slaughterhouse. But these rascals are opening slaughterhouse. You think it is Vedic principle? Suppose it is recommended that animals should be sacrificed in the Vedic ritualistic ceremony. Does it mean that you shall open regular slaughterhouse? Just as the Christians say that Jesus Christ ate fish, therefore they are right in opening big, big slaughterhouse? Maybe Lord Jesus Christ ate fish in some awkward circumstance, but that does not mean that he is recommending to open slaughterhouse. In the Ten Commandments he says, "Thou shalt not kill." When there is absolute necessity, there is no other food, that is another thing, but if there is sufficient other foodstuff, why should you kill? They are not even human being, those who are animal killers. Vinā paśughnāt (SB 10.1.4). Those who are animal killers, they are not even human being, what to speak of religious system. Nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt ka uttamaśloka-guṇa (SB 10.1.4). If you are animal killer, your God consciousness is finished. You'll never be able to understand what is God. Then your life is finished. This life is meant for understanding God, and if you are animal killer, then your God understanding is finished.

Guest (1): May I ask a question, Prabhupāda? Something that I've wondered about, perhaps you could explain it briefly. I believe that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme God, so don't get me wrong, but since you mentioned Christ, was he an incarnation of Kṛṣṇa? Was Jesus Christ sent here by Kṛṣṇa from...

Prabhupāda: He says that he is son of God; that is accepted.

Guest (1): Kṛṣṇa was Christ's father then.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Satsvarūpa: This is Lord Caitanya. He wrote only eight verses about all this literature. Then there is files and volumes and volumes about love of God. So in this Śikṣāṣṭakam, eight verses, the last verse is translated as, He prays: "I do not know anyone but Kṛṣṇa as my Lord, and He will always remain as such, even if He handles me roughly in His embrace or makes me brokenhearted by not being present before me. He is completely free to do anything and everything, and He will remain my worshipable Lord unconditionally." So this is just the opposite, this is pure love, just the opposite of the, what Śrīla Prabhupāda is explaining that in this material world love is based on some desire that actually becomes a kind of business that "I love you if you will respond in this way." What to speak of someone saying that "I love you, even if you act as a debauch. You don't have to be faithful, that's... You can do as you like in your own way, but my declaration is that I simply want to serve You and You'll always be my worshipable object." So love should be like that, otherwise it is simply business that I will give you the product if you give me the money. But the lover is the living being...

Prabhupāda: You shall not expect anything in return. That is real love. Just like this mother is loving child, expecting anything—no, not expecting any return. But she still she gives service. So that is as a little sample of pure love. But here also some... When the child is grown up, if the child is not obedient, the mother practically withdraws love. But in the spiritual world, unconditionally love is there. As it is explained, āśliṣya vā pāda-ratāṁ pinaṣṭu mām. Marma-hatām: (CC Antya 20.47) whatever you do, I don't mind that but still I love you. That is pure love.

Guest (1): As a mother loves the child in pure love, does that help her to also find the pure love in the spiritual world?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Just like Mother Yaśodā is loving Kṛṣṇa. Nanda Mahārāja is loving Kṛṣṇa. That is pure love.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I don't think human society has been educated to even understand the problem what to speak of a cure.

Prabhupāda: Problem there is, but he's a fool. Who wants to die? Why this fire brigade is running here and there? To save life. He doesn't want to die.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They will say though that everyone has to die.

Prabhupāda: They will say that is... Whatever they... Foolishly whatever they may say, then let them say. Actually he doesn't like to die. Otherwise let there be fire, why you called fire brigade? Let me die peacefully in the fire. (laughter) Nonsense he's suffering, but still he says there is no suffering. That is nonsense. That is ignorance. He's suffering every moment, but he does not know why he's suffering. That is ignorance. Just like an animal, you are taking into the slaughterhouse. He's suffering, he's screaming, but he does not know why you have taken to slaughterhouse (indistinct). And that is animal life. And when there will be question of why I am suffering? I did not want this fire, why there is fire? That is perfection (indistinct). Is there any solution? Then there is human life. And if he remains like animal, and simply try to make some remedial measures... He's suffering undoubtedly, but because he does not take it seriously, therefore he's animal. Animal does not take seriously why he's suffering. That is the distinction between human life and animal life. Suffering is there, but the animal does not take it seriously. But human life must take it seriously otherwise he's an animal. There are so many sufferings. This is adhibhau... adhidaivika. Adhidaivika: by—you say accident—by nature, by superior power. Some miserable condition is enforced upon us. Suppose if there is an earthquake, that is not in your hand, but it may cause some havoc. This is adhidaivika. Similar, adhibhautika:

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: And besides that, even we are claiming to be very materially advanced, we do not know everything of the material world. Just like so big universe, material, what do you know about that? We have no knowledge practically. Even of the material world we have no sufficient knowledge, what to speak of the spiritual world.

Interviewer: Could you tell me something about your altar?

Prabhupāda: Which altar? This Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Lord Nityānanda, we are worshiping Him.

Rāmeśvara: The two figures on the throne of the altar represent an incarnation of God named Lord Caitanya and Lord Nityānanda, and They both appeared in India approximately five hundred years ago. They are incarnations of God, God Himself, who descends into this world. So those forms represent the Supreme Lord. Therefore we are worshiping Them. And below, on the step, are the pictures of the spiritual masters coming in the disciplic succession from Lord Caitanya when He appeared in this world five hundred years ago.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Lord Caitanya started this movement, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa congregationally. It was predicted five thousand years ago in the Vedic scriptures that in this age, the present age, the Lord would appear and would teach the real religious process for this age which is chanting of the holy names.

Rāmeśvara: This is very traditional in India, temple worship and the figures are on the altar. It's very very traditional. It goes back many thousands of years.

Morning Walk -- July 18, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That is described, in the eighth chapter you'll find, er, Eighth Canto.

Rāmeśvara: In the Seventh Canto they described the palace of Indra, because Hiraṇyakaśipu had lived there. How he was living there, and the walls of his palace are studded with jewels. There's a nice description. What to speak of an ocean of milk, there's so many things they cannot imagine. (break) (walking)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The buses, you know the windows, some of the windows are broken a little bit—you saw them. Do you think they will look good in the parade? It's all right if the windows are not all...

Prabhupāda: Who is going to see? (break)

Hṛdayānanda: Great American paintings. What they consider to be great American paintings.

Hari-śauri: It's an art exhibition. (break)

Prabhupāda: In London they have got such a nice...

Rāmeśvara: You think one day, Prabhupāda, maybe these big buildings will be our temples?

Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, our executive office.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Rāmeśvara will have his office here.

Rāmeśvara: Look how interested they are in China. They have a collection of Chinese paintings.

Morning Walk -- July 20, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That will remain everlastingly unknown. They'll never be able to push. Panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-saṁpragamyaḥ. What is this speed? Even with the speed of mind and air they go many, many millions of years, it will still be... This verse of Brahma-saṁhitā, panthās tu koṭi-śata-vatsara-saṁpragamyo vāyor athāpi manaso muni-puṅgavānām, so 'py asti avicintya-tattve (Bs. 5.34). It is inconceivable. It will never be done. They have some vague idea, "There is no life. There is this. There is that." That's... Real knowledge they'll never get. Real knowledge you'll get from Bhāgavata.

Rādhāvallabha: They don't even know what is inside the ocean, what to speak of other planets.

Prabhupāda: And if they take photograph of the ocean, what they will understand what is within the ocean? Suppose they have taken photograph of the ocean. Does it mean the full knowledge of ocean?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Only speculation, only speculation.

Prabhupāda: Simply speculation. They are bluffing, "We have taken photograph." Suppose you have taken photograph. Does it mean that you have known everything? Nonsense.

Hari-śauri: They don't even know all the species of life here, so how will they know which one's there?

Gurudāsa: Just like when a photograph of a person is there, it doesn't mean they know what is inside.

Prabhupāda: But they bluff, "We have taken photograph." And what you have known about it? Simply bluff.

Hari-śauri: The whole thing is so childish, it's...

Rādhāvallabha: They tried to find the bottom of the deepest part of the ocean, and their submarine snapped in half and they all died. There's too much pressure. (break)

Room Conversation -- July 26, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: You are Jaya-tirtha. You are victorious. Now whatever is being done, it is by his blessing. Let us work sincerely. Things will be all.... Otherwise it is humanly impossible. It is by his grace.

Jayatīrtha: George was also commenting on that, how one man could have written so many books.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayatīrtha: He could not even read them all, what to speak of writing them all.

Prabhupāda:

mūkaṁ karoti vācālaṁ

paṅguṁ laṅghayate girim

yat-kṛpā tam ahaṁ vande

śrī-gurum dīna-tāranam

Mūkaṁ karoti vācālam: "A dumb is a great orator." Mūkaṁ karoti vācālaṁ. Paṅguṁ laṅghayate girim: "The lame man, lame man is jumping over the mountain." Mūkaṁ karoti vācālaṁ paṅguṁ laṅghayate girim. Yat-kṛpa: "By the mercy of guru it is possible." So let us cooperate and do this business. Higher authority will be pleased, and that is our success. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. If the higher authorities are pleased, then Kṛṣṇa is pleased. That is our success. What about that French professor who has written an elaborate review?

Hari-śauri: The one that mentions about Aurobindo...

Bhagavān: I sent you this summer.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- July 26, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: No.

Jayatīrtha: This year, by the time he got to Bury Place, he was completely exhausted, Bhagavān. Half an hour's drive.

Bhagavān: Hm.

Prabhupāda: That due to the staircase.

Jayatīrtha: But by the time you sat on the Vyasasana there you were already looking very tired, what to speak of...

Bhagavān: Paris has elevator.

Prabhupāda: Paris, I know, that I have told.

Jayatīrtha: (laughs) He told me that when we got to the top of the stairs in Bury Place. He said, "In Paris there is a lift."

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.

Jayatīrtha: In all respects Paris is superior. (laughs)

Bhagavān: I was just thinking that if you wanted warm weather, it's very warm during the day, and the air is very clean. It's not so dusty.

Prabhupāda: No, in the village there must be.

Bhagavān: The trouble is if you get sick along the way.

Jayatīrtha: On the way back from the airport we had to stop twice.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Nandarāṇī: We find only a very small percentage of the Iranians that can speak English well enough to understand even Īśopaniṣad, which is very simple English, and I give Bhagavad-gītās, I distribute Bhagavad-gītā...

Prabhupāda: If they understand any book, Īśopaniṣad, if they understand, they will get improvement.

Nandarāṇī: Any book. Some Bhagavad-gītās I do, but it's an exceptional Iranian who can even read the book, what to speak of understand the concepts. Īśopaniṣad is easier for them. We are very eager to translate into Persian.

Prabhupāda: Īśopaniṣad.

Nandarāṇī: Īśopaniṣad, yes. I think that will be our first big attempt. Some essays we will try to do. "Who is Crazy?" is very good for them, they appreciate that article, and...

Prabhupāda: They appreciate?

Nandarāṇī: Yes, we have explained to some of them the concepts in "Who is Crazy?" and Īśopaniṣad is a good book for them.

Prabhupāda: So your daughter is good assistant in the matter of cooking?

Nandarāṇī: Yes, they are both very good in cooking. And they clean the altar and they do some maintenance of the altar and the temple room, and they cook and sew, and I give them class in the morning, Bhagavad-gītā in English.

Prabhupāda: Yes, teach them personally. That Aniruddha is always chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Nandarāṇī: They are?

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That is their folly, they are not proprietor. They are not proprietor. That is already discussed. Proprietor is the Supreme Lord; you are not proprietor. That is another point. Falsely you are claiming proprietor. How you are proprietor? Everyone can claim proprietor, that is going on. Everyone is claiming proprietor and they are fighting. That is going on. And if you accept God is proprietor and we are dependent on Him, then there is no fight. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā, this īśa, īśāvāsyam verse is perfectly describing, tena tyaktena, you are not proprietor. You accept things what the proprietor has given you, allotted for you. You are not proprietor. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. Do not encroach upon others. Then how you become proprietor? We are falsely claiming proprietorship, we are encroaching upon others' independence. This is our business. How there can be peace? It is not possible. This property is walled, that property is walled. You cannot encroach on the other side of the wall. Then it is criminal, trespassing. The government's duty is to see that nobody's encroaching on others. Similarly, God's duty is that. That everyone is God's son, you don't encroach upon other son's right, then you'll be punished. You have got right to live and the lamb has got right to live. Why should you encroach upon his living right? Because you are strong. That is not humanity. The animal is therefore benefit. Let him live and you take the fur. You can use it for your coat, but why should you kill it? The cow is giving milk like mother, why should you kill it? This is humanity, to kill the mother? So in this way we are encroaching the rights of others, and we are becoming subject to be punished by God. This is going on. You may say there is no God, but God is there, you'll be punished. The outlaw they will say, "We don't care for government." You may say so, but government will take action. You cannot avoid it. This is humanity. Good citizenship means one who knows the laws of the state, that is good citizen. If one does not know the laws of the state, he's a fool. He's not a good citizen. One who knows the law, he keeps right and left, he knows this is the order of the government, cars should be driven on the right side or left side. He is good citizen. One who does not know the law of the state, he's not a good citizen. He's a fool, rascal. What to speak of humanity.

Room Conversation -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Oh, there is no Kṛṣṇa...

Mahāṁsa: There is no Kṛṣṇa temple. What to speak of Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. And their Deity is Kṛṣṇa, most of the Marwaris. So they will now slowly all of them will come. We had a very hard time. This Inani who was wearing the turban. He's the chief of the Marwaris. If he gives five thousand rupees, then all the Marwaris will give five thousand rupees in that Ganj area. Whatever he gives, the others will have to.

Prabhupāda: He is the head.

Mahāṁsa: He's the head. He himself never gave. And we went a hundred times to him.

Prabhupāda: And now he saw the film...

Mahāṁsa: Yes. And today also he was there in the morning. Now he will definitely give. You had also previously said that they are very conservative. But once they take it up, then they will take it up very nicely.

Prabhupāda: And I also explained, "Nā rūpya, nā rūpya." (laughs)

Mahāṁsa: (laughs) Yes, that's exactly what they do.

Meeting with Endowments Commissioner -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So we have got big program. Any amount of money you bring to us, we shall spend it immediately. (pause) (kīrtana in background) (break) There is a logic, andha-paṅgu-nyāya. One man is blind. Another man is lame. Both are useless. When they combined together the lame man was taken by the blind man. So the lame man has got eyes, he was giving direction, "Go this way." So both their work was done. So I say that India is lame and America is blind. Let us combine together. Then we can give a great culture for the benefit of the whole human society. India has no money-lame. And they have got money but they have no knowledge. So let us combine together. This is logic. Andha-paṅgu-nyāya. So by this cooperation they have... When I was in India I published three parts of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam with great difficulty. And now since I have gone there I am publishing every month a book. So on account of their cooperation we are able to publish so many books and organize the sale all over the world. But it is true that this culture is very much welcome all over the world. That is happening. That is real execution of the mission of Kṛṣṇa. Not to keep Kṛṣṇa within the boundaries of certain areas. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā. Sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). He's the father of all living entities. They should know it. We have got many other films also. How we are giving protection to the cows in different farms, how we are getting sumptuous milk. Two years ago there was an article in the Navabhārata Times in Delhi, big article, one full page, first page. And the heading was that New Vrindaban (Hindi). They gave this heading. And they gave all details how to use the land New Vrindaban in Virginia, we have got one thousand acre of land and they are utilizing it. How they are living peacefully. So we want to make an example here with this six hundred acres of land, if it is given to us. Kṛṣṇa's formula is there. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni. Produce sufficient quantity of anna. Everyone will be satisfied. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni. Kṛṣṇa never says by factory bhavanti bhūtāni. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni. Parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ yajñād bhavati parjanyo yajñaḥ karma-samudbhavaḥ (BG 3.14). Yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). This formula should be... That is Kṛṣṇa's mission. Kṛṣṇa's mission, what to speak of Kṛṣṇa's mission (Hindi). Kṛṣṇa to carry personally, (indistinct), aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). (Hindi) Kṛṣṇa nirākāra. He's personally speaking. And Vyāsadeva writes bhagavān uvāca. (Hindi)

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: You should go to see Visvambhara Gosvāmī also. (Hindi) This is fortunate that you have come in this moment. So I'll give you this inspiration, now combine together all Vṛndāvana gosvāmīs. Kṛṣṇa cult is for everyone, either Gauḍīya or Rāmānuja or everyone. Now all of you should come forward. That you do. Admitting (Hindi conversation). They are concerned with the Kṛṣṇa cult. Kṛṣṇa cult means all the ācāryas, all the ācāryas, either Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nimbārka or anyone, they should combine together. (Hindi) (aside:) Why you are talking? It is not very important. It is for him. It is a very bad habit. (aside ends) So we should be very alert in this point. All the Vaiṣṇavas of different sampradāyas, especially Gauḍīya sampradāya, you should come forward to fight this. They are gathering their strength. We should gather our strength. Fight, Kṛṣṇa never said that "Don't fight." (He) never said (to) Arjuna that "You are My devotee, you don't fight. You are very good gentleman, nonviolent, and I shall do everything for you." (He) never said that. (indistinct) Kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samu.... viṣame samupasthitam. "Now there is a great dangerous fight, why you are saying like a nonsense," anārya-juṣṭam, like non-Aryan. (Hindi conversation) This fight is another good news that they are feeling the strength. Otherwise they would not have prepared to fight. Formerly they were thinking that so many swamis and yogis come, come and go. But now they are feeling the strength, they (are) charging that their young men are being kidnapped. It is strong party. And these boys, they have taken to Vaiṣṇava principles, their parents have tried to take them back and induce them to eat meat and according.... They deny. This is also tried. I have got many disciples, they are coming out very rich family, rich father. So one of the fathers called his son that "I am old man, the business is dwindling, you come and take..." So I told him that "You go. Why not take your father's business and use it for Kṛṣṇa?" So he went, on my order. The father wanted him to eat meat. So he denied that "I cannot do that. I can help in your business, but I cannot accept your way of life. That is not possible." Then the father saw, "Then he is lost, useless. If he's not adopting our life..." So there, that one father, now the all fathers have combined that "Our children are now lost. They do not come home, what to speak of adopting again our way of life." They cannot accept the way of life, meat-eating and.... That is not possible. That they're finding dangerous. And other movement they join and they come back. They remain what they are. Simply they say that "I belong to this grouping." But our is different. Not only he belongs to Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement but a different type of life. (reads something) Mm. Give it. They have taken (indistinct). There are many, many groups like that.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Śarīraṁ vyādhi-mandiram. It is a temple of disease. The temple of di..., temple of miseries. Not only disease, there are so many other things. Huh? Mātrā-sparśās tu kaunteya śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ (BG 2.14), simply giving trouble. Śarīra-bandha, asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4). Deha, deha means kleśada, kleśada troublesome. They do not know this science. And they do not know how to get out of this body, there is no science. This is the only science Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They do not know this science, they do not know what is the real position, how troubles come, how we are suffering. Nothing of the sort. And our Kṛṣṇa Consciousness movement is simply dealing with this, how to get out of this entanglement of the body. That is the only problem. And the materialistic person, they do not think it as a problem. Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7). We are dealing with the real problems, and others they do not know what is the problems, what to speak of dealing with them. Completely in ignorance, how the body is changing, why there are different forms of life, wherefrom they are coming. They do not deal with these things.

Hari-śauri: Everybody thinks their body is for enjoying this. They think it's the source of pleasure.

Prabhupāda: That enjoyment that God's children? They also thought it is enjoyment, you see? The hippies are thinking, enjoying. And others little polished way. They are also the same, in a polished way, by dressing nicely. Eh? Everyone is in ignorance, tribhir guṇamayair bhāvaiḥ. Find out this verse.

Devotee (1): Ebhiḥ sarvam idaṁ jagat.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Devotee (1): Tribhir guṇamayair bhāvair ebhiḥ sarvam idaṁ jagat.

Prabhupāda: Nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam.

Room Conversation About Gurukula -- November 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. "You can do this? All right, do it. Why you should be forced to learn Sanskrit? Not necessary. Not necessary."

Dhanurdhara: What of a boy who does the chanting nicely and the kīrtana nicely but doesn't do the school work nicely?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Dhanurdhara: What of a boy who does the japa very nicely and...

Prabhupāda: Well, japa... Whether his father is doing japa nicely, that is also doubtful. What to speak of children? Japa, children cannot... That should not be taken very seriously. Whatever he can do, that's all right. We should enforce, we should... But not that if he does not immediately, he should be rejected. No.

Jagadīśa: You've often said the first-class intelligent men are the brāhmaṇas, second-class intelligent men are the kṣatriyas...

Prabhupāda: So we have to train like that, guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ, not that everyone should be Sanskrit scholar. Why? It is not necessary. There are so many other things.

Jagadīśa: The inclination depends on guṇa-karma.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Although by nature we should not enforce something. We should see for which work he is suitable. You should engage him. And we must have all departments of work—the weaving department, the plowing department, the cow-keeping department, the Sanskrit department, the English department, the trading department. We should have all the departments. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13).

Room Conversation -- November 11, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Nobody will live. Don't be anxiety. That's all. Anyone who has come to this material world will die. One is going to die today; another is going to die tomorrow. It is a question of first and second, but everyone will die. So before death one should be complete in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is success of life. The tree is standing for thousands of years. So what is the use of living like that? A tree cannot chant Hare Kṛṣṇa but lives for thousands of years. Do you think that kind of living is very worthy, standing in one place, cannot move even, and what to speak of chanting? So you have got the chance to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Utilize that. Don't be anxious that "I am going to die." Who is going to live? Why don't you understand that? Nobody is going to live. So before death one should be complete in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is success.

Manīṣā: (Antardhyāna's daughter, terminally ill) But if one is not, Śrīla Prabhupāda, what will happen?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Hari-śauri: If one is not complete in their Kṛṣṇa consciousness then what will happen?

Prabhupāda: She will get again birth in a human body. That is guaranteed so that he'll get again chance of chanting. That is also great gain. Ordinary person, he does not know what body he is going to get next body. But a person who is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, chanting, he is guaranteed. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe (BG 6.41). He is guaranteed to take birth as human being in a very sacred family like brāhmaṇa and very rich family. So I have to go.

Manīṣā: Thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Room Conversation -- November 18, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So that is capturing the sentiment. There is no philosophy. And who cares for Jesus? First of all they must care for Jesus. So he's... He has got any books?

Jagadīśa: I don't think so. Maybe some pamphlets.

Hari-śauri: No one's got any literature like yours. At the most, they can produce a few pamphlets. They can't even produce one volume the size of the Bhāgavatam, what to speak of eighty. And if they could, no one would read them anyway.

Prabhupāda: No, on the whole there is now attempt to stop this movement. (break) ...but in... We have made so many court cases. Now, only loss we are feeling now—in some airports they have stopped our book selling. So formerly also, they were stopped and again revived.

Hari-śauri: Legally we haven't been stopped in any airport, I don't think.

Prabhupāda: Legally we have been stopped?

Jagadīśa: In Los Angeles, in Dallas and Atlanta.

Prabhupāda: Legally?

Hari-śauri: But that's only temporarily, I think.

Prabhupāda: What is the...?

Jagadīśa: It's a constant struggle.

Prabhupāda: Struggle must be there. You cannot stop it.

Room Conversation -- November 18, 1976, Vrndavana:

Jagadīśa: We had harassment from the police in Montreal for two years. Sometimes they even beat up the devotees. They have put them into jail...

Prabhupāda: They have beaten even our book sellers in airports.

Hari-śauri: Chicago.

Jagadīśa: And the police mistreat the devotees. But still, the devotees continue and now in Montreal there's no trouble.

Prabhupāda: They crucified Jesus, what to speak of devotees. Prahlāda Mahārāja was persecuted, Haridāsa Ṭhākura. I think I shall not go to Europe, America, for some time. (laughter)

Hari-śauri: Not unless this gets cleared up.

Prabhupāda: Because it is being discussed about me. They say, "Old man is behind this movement."

Hari-śauri: Even in Australia now they're having the same thing, kidnapping and everything. It's everywhere.

Prabhupāda: That means they are feeling the weight. It is spreading.

Hari-śauri: Yeah. (end)

Room Conversation -- November 20, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: People are so misled. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We have to change this body. There is no preparation. "As sure as death." Death will take place, and you have to accept another body. Who understands this philosophy? Nobody. They are so dull-headed. This body finished, everything finished. All big, big leaders, scholars, they say. One gentleman, his name is... He was Rabindranath Tagore's brother, artist. So in a meeting he was saying, "We are so fool. Thinking of next life, next life, we are spoiling this life." He said like that long, long ago when we were children, young men, about eighteen years, twenty years. So I remember distinctly, he is saying in the meeting that "Simply thinking of next life, we are spoiling this life." He said. That was his explanation. So at that time we were young boys: "Yes, why we should think of, so much of next life?" Of course, I was not very much convinced, but naturally... I think his name Aurobindo Tagore, like that. Rabindranath Tagore. He is good artist. Artist means latest fashion, like this, like that, like that. He was considered to be latest artist. And his view is that. I talked with Professor Kotofsky. He said, "Swamiji, after finishing this body everything is finished." Communist. This is the cent per cent idea. The so-called scientists, they are thinking, by chemical evolution the body has come in existence. These things are discussed in Bhagavad-gītā. By accident, if it is a combination of chemicals, that means the bodily existence was not before. It has come in by accident, combination. "So why, Arjuna, you are lamenting for the body which was not in existence? And it will not exist after. Then why you are so much anxious for the middle portion?" Good reasoning. The body was not in existence. That is the general... And as soon as you finish, there is no more existence. So via media, between the manifestation and nonmanifestation, in the middle there is some manifesta... Why you are so much absorbed in that part? Therefore the Europeans, Americans, they bring in the charges, "brainwash." "A brainwash movement. It has no actual value. Simply an artificial way of pushing the idea in the brain. And they have to give up. These children are spoiled. They have given up meat-eating and illicit sex. Their life is spoiled, and so on, so on." So their theory is not without background. There is a background philosophy. And for Western countries, this is a completely new idea. Therefore they are charging, "brainwash." They are not to be blamed because they are, I mean to say, raised in that ideas. Hm? Is it not? Yes. "So this is simply brainwash movement. It has no factual standing." Even our country, what to speak of Western countries. Where the spiritual civilization has a strong background, they are also not believing. Nobody believes Kṛṣṇa is God. Even big, big leaders, what to speak of ordinary men. Especially the so-called educated men. "Bring money anyhow and enjoy life." Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). And for money they are doing everything. Black money, white money, yellow money, this money. (laughs) "Bring money and enjoy. Bas. This is life. Why this nonsense Kṛṣṇa consciousness? No this, no this, no this. Ninety-nine per cent no and one per cent yes. What is the value of this movement?" Is it not? Our life is ninety-nine per cent no. No air even. (laughter) So what to speak of other thing. It is very difficult. Therefore in the beginning I was hopeless, that "Who will hear this movement? Simply no." And especially in this country, in Europe. So dull brain. (end)

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Guest (1): Yes, that's right. He admitted also.

Prabhupāda: And what to speak of others. His ambition was Hindu-Muslim unity. So that was banned.

Guest (1): Total failure.

Prabhupāda: His ambition was nonviolent—he was killed by violence. So what to speak of others? A person so dedicated, so nice, but he followed the wrong path. Recently I had been to his Sevasram in Wardha. So there was no Kṛṣṇa worship and he said that he is very fond of Bhagavad-gītā. But he understood Bhagavad-gītā in his own way.

Guest (1): (laughing) In a different way, I would say.

Prabhupāda: And in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, as soon as you try to understand Bhagavad-gītā in your own way, it is finished. It is finished. Naṣṭa. Yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. So naṣṭa cheese, what is naṣṭa, what is the use of...?

Guest (1): It should be destroyed. No use to it.

Prabhupāda: Suppose if I supply you something which is spoiled, then what benefit you will derive? Therefore no benefit is derived by the people in general either from Gandhi or Vinoba Bhave or Tilak because it was naṣṭa.

Guest (1): Sir, how do you compare it with... This Hare Kṛṣṇa movement...

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is...

Guest (1): ...for the common man, for the downtrodden, for the poor...

Prabhupāda: Yes, they can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, and they will understand.

Guest (1): That should be some motivation...

Prabhupāda: Just like if you are hungry, if you get some real food, you'll understand. Example is these American, European boys. They are simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, and you see how they are advanced.

Morning Walk -- December 25, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. But you won't take it. He'll speak so many nonsense; he'll never speak Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is misfortune.

Guest (2): What are the aims of the Indian society. Although it's given birth to so much, it still doesn't take it as success. What is the weakness in the Indian society that they don't...

Prabhupāda: Because they have got bad leaders, the rascal leaders. Just like see. Mahatma Gandhi, he misled. But he did not know how to lead. And what to speak of others. They do not know. I saw this Vinoba Bhave, he does not know anything. He has become leader. I saw in his āśrama about one dozen women, they are reciting Bhagavad-gītā. That's all. And for the last forty years he's working on Bhagavad-gītā, and the result is some forty women is reciting Bhagavad-gītā. So this is the result. So what they will do? They do not know how to lead. And he has written one book on Bhagavad-gītā, but he has become a great leader. And that is also not according to Bhagavad-gītā. This is going on. This is going on.

Guest (1): Unfortunately, he has... There are not very silent...

Prabhupāda: Take for example satyagraha. Satyagraha... What is the satyagraha? That is the child's play. Just like a child, he wants something. You are not giving him. He'll cry. He'll force you. So is there any śāstric injunction? Now these things have become popular. Real thing rejected, and some false thing presented by childish attempt, that is accepted.

Guest (1): But sir, would you not agree that in order to appeal to the masses or to make masses into any movement...

Prabhupāda: No, it is... You see... It is not... If you want to become an educated man or if you want to give first-class education, it is not for the mass. It is for the leader. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tat tad evetaro janaḥ (BG 3.21). If the leaders are educated, then others will follow. But if the leaders are not educated, what the others will do? That is the difficulty. And the so-called leaders, without being educated, they become leader.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Another place, Vaiṣṇava says, either he is businessman, or doctor, anyone, they are all madmen.

piśācī pāile yena mati-cchana haya

māyā-grasta jīvera haya se bhāva udaya

(Hindi) Ghostly haunted. And he talks all nonsense. Similarly, anyone who is in the material condition, he is a ghost-haunted man. So he can talk anything, all nonsense. Piśācī pāile yena... This is applicable to everyone. Anyone who has got this material body, he's ghostly-haunted. Therefore we are explaining that verse, that first treatment is how to get out of the clutches of this ghost which has attacked everyone. So ghostly haunted man, he's himself a victim of the ghost. How he can treat other men? He's also haunted by the ghost. This is the position. You may, one may say, "I am haunted by better ghost." That may be, but every one of us ghostly haunted. And śāstra says this is treatment. Tapasya. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā, yasmād sattvaṁ śuddhyed (SB 5.5.1). Sattva, our existence, is polluted. (break) ...the skin and bone. The skin and bone will continue so long I am in the material condition of life. Either bird's skin... Just like who was talking of evolution, who was? This disease of skin and bone will continue. Because the spirit soul is not the bone and skin. The Darwin's theory, he is putting that the bone is changing. The bone is not changing. You get different bones in different life. I am changing my position. I am going from one apartment to another apartment. The apartment not changing. I am changing apartment. That is the difference between Darwin's theory and our theory. They are thinking the apartment is becoming another apartment. No. The apartments are already there. I am entering different apartments as I can pay for it. That is karma. According to my karma, I am sometimes residing in one apartment, in another apartment. This is going on. The Darwin's theory, the apartment is changing. That's not the fact. Fact is I am living entity. Tathā dehān..., Kṛṣṇa also says tathā dehāntara. Apartment antara. The spirit soul is the same. There is no change. That is spirit always. But according to his karma, he is going from this apartment, or this body, tathā dehān... That is the main point with the modern science and our Vedic knowledge. That is the main difference. They have no idea of the existence of the soul, and therefore say, "We are trying to make, we are trying to make." This rascaldom is going on. You cannot make soul. That is not possible. You cannot do anything. You cannot make even the body, what to speak of the soul. This is...

Morning Walk -- December 29, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They cannot believe that other than this method, there can be civilization. This hoggish civilization is real civilization. To become like hog. That is real civilization. And to give up this process, thinking of soul, elevation of the soul, going back to Godhead, simply imagination, brainwashing. How they can understand? Mām aprāpya nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra vartmani (BG 9.3). Who can understand this? (Hindi) to return (Hindi) to the cycle of birth and death. You believe that. (Hindi) If you do not in this life achieve the sense of spiritual consciousness then you'll have to go back to the cycle of birth and death. Who will understand this philosophy? Mostly they do not know what is the cycle of birth and death, and what to speak of understanding God. This is the position. This is suar (pig) position. A suar cannot understand. The men have become like that. In the name of so-called civilization. Can a suar understand this philosophy? A man cannot understand. And what is the difference between him and the suar? Suar (Hindi) There is a narration, Brahmā came, and Indra became, by the curse of Bṛhaspati, became a suar. So he was living in the forest as suar. Brahmājī came, "All right, your punishment is now over. You come." "Where shall I go?" "The heaven?" "This is heaven." "You have got your kingdom, heaven. You have come to suffer this life." "No no, I cannot go." "Why?" "Now who will take responsibility for my, this suar?" (laughter)

Dr. Patel: I like this tale.

Prabhupāda: Then Brahmā began to kill his sewerni (?) and his pigs and others, and then he began to cry and took him by force. There is a (indistinct). Even Indra, when he comes under the influence of this tamo-guṇa, he became happy in the high life of suar.

Dr. Patel: Māyā duratyayā. Mama māyā duratyayā. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te (BG 7.14).

Devotees: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)