Cheating propensity's there. To the imperfect person, there is cheating propensity. He knows that this point, "I'm not very clear, but still he gives some idea." That is cheating. There are so many... Darwin's theory. Others. "Perhaps, it may be." Like this. These words are there, used. What is the use of this "perhaps?" That means imperfect knowledge. "It may be. There is something missing." So how we can believe all this imperfect knowledge? Now we don't take this knowledge, "perhaps, maybe." Just like in the śāstra it is said: jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi. There are nine-hundred-thousands forms of aquatic life. Nine hundred-thousands. In the Vedas, it is said. It doesn't say: one more or two less. Nine-hundred-thousand. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati kṛmayo rudra-saṅkhyakāḥ. The living entities. So Veda, that is Vedic knowledge. Veda means knowledge, perfect knowledge. So this is the process. Our Vedic civilization, all the great ācāryas, teachers, they accept knowledge from the Vedas. Because we accept it, Veda is perfect. Sometimes they say that Vedas are also written by human beings. No. It is not written by human being. It is heard. Therefore it is called śruti. So tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye. The knowledge, Vedic knowledge was first impregnated by the Supreme Lord in the heart of Brahmā. (end)
What is the use (Lectures, Other)
Lectures
Nectar of Devotion Lectures
Just like Arjuna. In the beginning he declined to fight. He was thinking favorably to his own senses, that "If I kill my brother, grandfather, nephews, those who are on the other side,... They have come to fight with me. So I can kill them. I can own victory over them. But what is the profit? If my relatives, friends, and all others die, then what is the use of my become victorious?" That was his... That means he was thinking in his favor. Kṛṣṇa wanted that "You must fight. You are a kṣatriya. It is your duty to fight. You are My friend. If you go away, fly away from this battlefield, what people will say? That 'Kṛṣṇa's friend has gone away.' So this is not good." So when he could not be convinced, then Kṛṣṇa had to speak the whole Bhagavad-gītā. Then after hearing Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa inquired from Arjuna "What is your decision now? Are you going to fight or not?" Arjuna said, "Yes, my illusion is over." Naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā tvat-prasādān madhusūdana. So kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). "Yes, I shall fight." So this is favorable to Kṛṣṇa.
The elephant... Hasti-snāna, hasti-snāna. This is very practical example. The elephant takes bath in the lake, very profusely throws water on his body, and becomes cleansed, and as soon as he comes on the shore, he takes again dust and spreads over his body. So these are natural examples. Similarly, there are different processes for getting out of the reaction of sinful activities, but you..., we take it. But if we again commit those sinful activities, then what is the use of such penance or prāyaścitta? Hasti-snāna. The example is given as hasti-snāna. Take, for example, it is said by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra one is released from all sinful activities immediately. Eka hari nāma yata pāpa kare, pāpī haya tato pāpa kari bare nare. It is a fact. Just like Ajāmila. His whole life was full of sinful activities, but at the time of death, because he uttered the holy name of Nārāyaṇa, he became immediately released. That's a fact. But if we commit again sinful activities, then what is the use of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra? Nāmno balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ. This is one of the ten offenses. If anyone thinks that "I am chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. It is reacting all the effects of my sinful life. Then again I can commit and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. It is very good business..." No. That is great offense. Nāmno balād yasya hi pāpa-buddhiḥ. One should not indulge in such a way. Jagāi-Mādhāi was accepted by Lord Caitanya only on the promise that they would not commit any more any sinful activities.
In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam the, the process of prāyaścitta, atonement, is discussed, and Śukadeva Gosvāmī has recommended that this process of prāyaścitta, ritualistic ceremony... After committing some sinful activities to counteract it, there are, in every śāstra there is some counteracting formulas. The people generally follow that. In Christian religion also, there is confession, atonement. A sinful man goes to the church and confesses. Similarly, in every religion, there is such atonement process, but Parīkṣit Mahārāja refused to accept this atonement process. He protested that a man commits sinful activities and executes some atonement process—again he commits the same thing. Then what is the use of this atonement? So Śukadeva Gosvāmī understood it because he was a serious student. And Śukadeva Gosvāmī was also a serious teacher. So he then said, "No. Atonement process cannot rectify one. Only prāyaścittaṁ vimarśanam. One must be thoughtful. One must be in knowledge. Then he can give up sinful activities." So he recommended the process of knowledge. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa tyāgena yamena niyamena (SB 6.1.13). These are the processes.
Mādhavānanda: "In the Seventh Canto of the Bhāgavatam, Sixth Chapter, 23rd verse, Mahārāja Prahlāda says, 'My dear friends who are born into atheistic families, if you can please the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, then there is nothing more rare in this world. In other words, if the Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa is pleased with you, then any desire that you may have within the core of your heart can be fulfilled without any doubt. As such, what is the use of elevating yourself by the results of fruitive activities, which are automatically achieved in all events by the modes of material nature?' "
Prabhupāda: Yes. In the śāstra it is said:
- akāmaḥ sarva-kāmo vā
- mokṣa-kāma udāra-dhīḥ
- tīvreṇa bhakti-yogena
- yajeta paramaṁ puruṣa
- (SB 2.3.10)
Akāma. There are three classes of men. Akāma, without kāma, without any desire, that is devotees. And sarva-kāma means the karmīs; and mokṣa-kāma, the jñānīs. So whatever you may be, you can engage yourself in devotional service.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, ei ājñā pāñā: "I received this order from My spiritual master, and I follow it strictly." Nāma la-i anukṣaṇa: "Because My spiritual master told Me that 'You don't touch Vedānta. You, You fool. You just go on.' " Or, in other words, Caitanya Mahāprabhu was not a fool. He was a vastly learned man. He's representing the fools of the present age. What they will understand, Vedānta-sūtra? Their life is so molded by the present atmosphere, materialistic atmosphere, that they are unable to touch Vedānta-sūtra. They are unfit to touch even Vedānta-sūtra, what to speak of understanding it. Therefore they'll create more rascaldom to create so many Vedānta societies and they are the same rascals, still. For hundred years they are studying Vedānta-sūtra, and the same thing, the same bad habit—same illicit connection, same intoxication, same gambling. Everything is going on. And they're Vedānta-sūtra student? This is rascaldom. There must be change in life. Otherwise, what is the use of Vedānta-sūtra? Veda-anta. Vedānta means... Veda means knowledge, and anta means end, end of all knowledge. Everyone is searching after knowledge, but there must be some end. What is the ultimate end? The Bhagavad-gītā says, vedānta-vid vedānta-kṛd ca aham: "I am the compiler of Vedānta. I am the knower of Vedānta." So, if you simply understand what Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, you are Vedantist. And what says Kṛṣṇa? What does He say? He says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: (BG 18.66) "You give up all rascaldom. Simply surrender unto Me." This is Vedānta. This is Vedānta. Ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim (Nārada Pañcarātra).
So that is the representation of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He says that "My Guru Mahārāja found Me..." It is better if you remain a fool always before your spiritual master. Then you'll make advance. And if you think yourself, even for a moment, that "I know something more than my spiritual master," you are fallen. This is called vyavasāyātmikā buddhir ekeha kuru nandana (BG 2.41). That one vow, that "I have to follow the order of my spiritual...," that will make you advanced. The more you strictly follow the order of spiritual master, the more you become advanced. You do not become fool. Actually you become advanced. Otherwise, what is the use of...? It is not a formality. It is actually fact, if you at all want to make advancement in spiritual life, you must follow the orders of the bona fide spiritual master. As Caitanya Mahāprabhu, such a great scholar, and He's accepted as the incarnation of God, and He's showing us the example that "I followed the order of My spiritual master because he found Me a nonsense."
So when rascals and fools think in their imperfect stage as perfect, the whole anomalies of this world begins. The rascals and fools, they do not think themselves that "I am rascal and fool." Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu presents Himself before His spiritual master... Not He presented—His spiritual master found Him, that "You are fool number one." So we should be always prepared to admit our imperfection. But such imperfection is not in, on the īśvara. Īśvara means "controller." If the controller is imperfect... Suppose a man is in charge, director of such and such a department, education department, and if he's a fool, then what is the use of keeping such man? Therefore īśvara, those who are controllers, they have no such flaw. That is to be admitted first. They are flawless. And what to speak of the Parameśvara. There are two kinds of īśvara. Īśvara, you can, you are also īśvara, but you are now in imperfect stage. When you become perfect, you become īśvara, controller. For example, just like, at the present conditioned stage, we are all controlled by the senses. So when you at least become the controller of the senses, then you become īśvara. Now we are controlled by the senses, but when you become actually controller of the senses, then you become īśvara. Then there will be less mistake, less illusion, less cheating, and perfection.
So Caitanya Mahāprabhu first of all establishes that in the Vedānta-sūtra you cannot find any flaw; therefore you have no right to interpret. Because you are nonsense rascal, so how you can touch and comment on the sūtras which is compiled by God, the Supreme Perfect? But we do not admit that "I am rascal." I think that I am very much learned, I have no flaw, I am perfect. So these are foolishness. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's point is this, that why the foolish persons go to interpret and comment on Vedānta, which is perfect itself? Do you require to see the sun with this light? How it is possible? The sun is itself illuminated so nicely that you don't require any other light to see sun. If I say, "My dear boy, please come with me and take this light. I'll show you sun in the sky," oh, you'll think, "Oh, Swamijī is a nonsense. What is the use of this light? What is the use of this light?" Similarly, what knowledge you have got that you have to..., you want to comment on the Vedānta-sūtra? It is already illuminated. In the beginning: athāto brahma jijñāsā. Now you have got this human form of life. Now you have got full consciousness. You are not like animal. We are not like dogs and cats. Now you try to understand what you are, Brahman, what is spirit. Is it not your duty? You should simply be satisfied like animals, eating, drinking and mating and begetting children, and sometimes death is come and gone? Do you think that is your perfection of life? No. The Vedānta says, athāto brahma jijñāsā. This life is for spiritual realization. It is not meant for cats' and dogs' life, sense gratification. They are doing, the hogs are doing sense gratification all day, eating, and as soon as there is female, oh, there is sex. Do you think this is human life? No. Vedānta says it is not human life. The human life is to understand what is spirit, what is the background of this manifestation, janma. So at once the Vedānta-sūtra replies, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). "Brahman, the Supreme Absolute Truth, is that who is the background of all this manifestation."
We should worship Kṛṣṇa. We should think of Kṛṣṇa. We shall chant of Kṛṣṇa. This is the straight meaning. But the commentator says, "Oh, not to Kṛṣṇa." Just see. "Not to Kṛṣṇa." So this nonsensical commentation is... Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, mukhya-vṛttye. Mukhya-vṛttye, directly, as you understand it. If I say, "My dear such and such, give me a glass of water," now you interpret, "Oh, Swamijī wants water. Oh, he has taken water. Let me supply this or that, interpretation," what is the use of interpreting? I'm asking for water. Give me water. Call a spade a spade. This should be the... This should be the understanding of Vedānta. Because all foolish nonsense, they are interpreting... "Such and such person's commentation of Vedānta-sūtra." Because they were trying to manifest and expose their thinking power, that "I think that this should be like this." What nonsense you are? What you can think? You think as it is. This is... Caitanya Mahāprabhu says. Don't think otherwise. As it is. In the Upaniṣads, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam: "Everything belongs to God." Believe it as belongs to God. Don't interpret. Then you'll understand Vedas. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ yat kiñcit jagatyāṁ jagat: (ISO 1) "Anything, any minute thing in this material world, everything belongs to that Supreme Lord." Who can deny it? Why do you interpret? Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā: "So you enjoy as He orders you."
So do you want that is freedom? This is not freedom. This is, I mean to say, going to hell. This is not freedom. Therefore Vedic literatures enjoins that if you want sex life, then you become householder. You marry a nice girl, and then you have got very good responsibility. This, this concession, sex life, is allowed so that you have to serve the all others. That is the responsibility. Now there are four divisions of social order—brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. The brahmacārī does not, I mean to say, earn anything. They depend on the society. Sannyāsī—depend on the society. Vānaprastha—depend on the society. Only the householder who is living with wife and children, he has got the whole responsibility to provide these brahmacārī, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. You see. In India still, if a brahmacārī, if a sannyāsī goes to a householder, immediately offers something. So they do not want more, but they want little for their maintenance of this body and soul together. It is the duty of the householder. So unless one becomes responsible householder, how he'll execute his responsibility? If he thinks, "Oh, what is the use of keeping a cow when the milk is available in the market? Oh, sex life is so cheap. Why shall I take the responsibility of marrying?" This is going on. This is going on. Just like cats and dogs. So the cats and dogs cannot understand Vedānta philosophy. First condition. It is not meant for the cats and dogs. It is meant for human beings. So we should be human being first of all. Then we shall try to understand... Our life is so wretched that it is less than cats and dogs, and we try to understand Vedānta philosophy. It is not possible.
Oh, how can you do that? If a person is not willing to take medicine, how he can be cured? He'll go to death. He must be willing to. That is a, I mean to say, explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. So that is very dangerous position, one who does not take care. Suppose if one wants to be educated without going to school. How it is possible? If somebody says, "Oh, I don't care for any school, colleges. I'll be educated at home," this is nonsense. Is it possible? Or will anybody recognize you? Then what is the use? Waste of time. That is the disease. Everyone thinks, "Oh, I am everything. I am perfect." That is the disease, material disease. Everyone is thinking, "I am independent. I am perfect. Whatever I think, oh, that is all right." This is going on. First of all, if anyone wants advancement, he must first of all think just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu is pretending, that "My spiritual master found Me a great fool (CC Adi 7.71)." So one must agree to become a great fool and study these scriptures from bona fide spiritual master. Then there is hope of advancement. Yes?
That you have no intelligence to understand. But what is given by Vyāsadeva, that is accepted by all the ācāryas. We are not so learned as you are, but we follow the ācārya. And it is recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā, ācāryopāsanam. You must follow the ācāryas, the Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, even Śaṅkarācārya, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Then you'll get the real answer. Ācāryavān puruṣo veda: "One who follows the ācārya, he knows." Others, they do not know. So you cannot question "Why? How Vyāsadeva wrote?" That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Sañjaya says vyāsa prasāda. How one can understand? By the mercy of Vyāsadeva. So we have to see. Instead of criticizing in that adverse way, we have to follow the ācārya. Ācāryopāsanam. So you'll find Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Nimbārka, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, they have accepted in that way. So what is the use of our questioning? We should follow. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). Otherwise it is not possible.
"My Lord, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, very kindly You went to my place and You have delivered me so that after Your visit I decided to resign from the government service, and I have come to You. So You have delivered me from the pitfalls of this materialistic way of life. Now tell me what is my duty." This is student. This is disciple. Approach a bona fide guru, a spiritual master, and abide by his orders and do accordingly. Then your life will be successful. And if you keep yourself in the darkness, that "I am very rich man. I am very learned man, but unfortunately, I do not know what I am," so what is the use? The Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura: vidyā-kule hi karibe tāra. So if you do not know yourself, then what your so-called education and high family, high nationality, will help you? Nature's law is different. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). If you do not cultivate spiritual knowledge, if you remain like cats and dogs, then prakṛti, nature, will give you the cats' and dogs' body next life. Suppose you become very big businessman and you have got nice, very big balance and so on, so on, but by your activities you remain like a dog mentality is, then you are going to get the body of a dog. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran loke tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). The test is at the time of death. At the time of death, if my mentality is different, so according to that mentality I shall get the body. This is called transmigration of the soul. There is no teaching of this science throughout the whole world, and we are trying to educate people. Of course, it is very difficult to understand, but this is the science, that there is transmigration of the soul. And if we do not take care of this, that "What I am going to become next life?" if you simply waste your time simply on the matter of eating, sleeping, mating and defense, then we are wasting our time. This is the subject matter of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
So the Sanātana Gosvāmī came to Caitanya Mahāprabhu, accepted Him as guru, not for any material benefit. Because he was minister... Tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tucchavat. He gave up his position, very high position. What is that? Aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīm. Because he was minister, his associates, his friends, his business was with big, big men of the state, maṇḍala-pati, big zamindars, big kings, big ministers, big so on. Everyone is big. But he preferred to give them up, tyaktvā tūrṇam aśeṣa-maṇḍala-pati-śreṇīṁ sadā tucchavat, that "What is the use of this association?" Sadā tucchavat. Bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau karuṇayā kaupīna-kanthāśritau. And he preferred to do something beneficial to the public, bhūtvā dīna-gaṇeśakau, in the public, general public. Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau. This was the business, not that he was very busy while he was minister and when he retired he became a dull and sat down in one place. No. Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau. He was studying different types of literatures and scriptures. Why? Sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau: just to establish real purpose of religiosity. Sad-dharma-saṁsthāpakau. These are the qualifications of six Gosvāmīs.
So we cannot believe this version that there is no living entity in the sun, moon, or... There are living entity... Full of, janakīrṇa, this word is used. Congested. Just like here in this planet we are congested: so many living entities, different varieties. Similarly, the same congestion is there in all other planets. So do not try to poke your nose which is inconceivable. And that also not assertion. You say, "Perhaps," "Maybe," "Millions of years," "It might have been." All suggestion. So if you want knowledge, then you have to consult this Vedic knowledge. Veda means knowledge, the source of knowledge. That is called Veda. And the ultimate knowledge is Kṛṣṇa. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). That is the version.
What is the use of studying Vedas? To understand Kṛṣṇa. So if you simply understand Kṛṣṇa, then you understand everything. Try to understand Kṛṣṇa thoroughly. And if you understand Kṛṣṇa thoroughly... Of course, it is not possible thoroughly, but it is possible also. Just like Kṛṣṇa is the source of everything. So if you believe it, it is understanding thoroughly. If you believe that what Kṛṣṇa says is fact, then it is understanding thoroughly. If you don't believe, then it is not thoroughly. Because if you make research that "Kṛṣṇa says 'I am the origin of everything.' Let me make research," that will not be possible. Inconceivable. But if you believe in the words of Kṛṣṇa, then you've studied thoroughly.
So I have to revive my relationship. Relationship is there; simply I have forgotten. So I have to revive it, or remember it, that "Oh, I am such and such." Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ (BG 7.19). I have to become a great soul by surrendering unto God. So that surrendering process is bhakti, or devotional service. My relationship is eternal with the Supreme. I have forgotten it. Now, that relationship is that He is the original father of everything, and we are all sons. So we have to become... We have... So long we have been disobedient. Now we have to become obedient. That's all. This obedience means that... What is called? Obedience, the first law of discipline. So as soon as the people of this world, so-called advanced world, they become obedient to God, then there will be discipline and there will be peace. There is no discipline now. They are not agreeable to follow any rules and regulation. Everyone is God. Everyone is dog. Everyone can do anything, whatever he likes. So there is no discipline. So bhakti, bhakti, devotional service, means to undergo a, a disciplinary system of our life so that automatically we can revive our lost relationship with Lord, God, and we become happy. This is called bhakti. Abhidheya-nāma 'bhakti', 'prema'-prayojana. And why? What is the use? Suppose we don't revive our relationship? Then you'll be disturbed. You are after peace and prosperity.
One who chastises the whole universe, whole creation, He is afraid of His mother. He becomes dependent as He likes. It is said in the śāstra that "When My devotee thinks Me dependent on him, oh, I like that. I like that." People always worship God as the sublime, but the devotee, they do not worship. They want to serve God as dependent. Just like mother serves the child as dependent. There is no purpose. The mother is satisfied simply by keeping the child in perfect order. Yes. There is no purpose. Similarly, when we shall be inclined to see that He is always satisfied, that is devotion. Then you can have God in your grip. You see? God is so kind, Kṛṣṇa is so kind, that He becomes just... Ajito 'pi. Nobody can conquer Him, but He becomes conquered by this kind of devotional service. You see? Ajito 'pi jito 'py asi. He becomes conquered. This is the process of conquering. What is the use of becoming one with God? You can conquer Him. You can have Him within your grips. Such is the process, devotional service. It is stated here. Ataeva. Therefore, Lord Caitanya concludes, ataeva 'bhakti'-kṛṣṇa-prāptyera upāya. Therefore, if you want Kṛṣṇa, then bhakti, the devotional service, is the only way.
So in that blindness he was penancing, austerity in Vṛndāvana. So by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa came like a boy. "Oh, my dear sir, why you are starving? Why don't you take some milk?" "Oh, who are You, my dear boy?" "Oh, I am a boy of this village. I am a cowherd boy. If you like, I can give you daily some milk." "All right." So Kṛṣṇa supplied him milk. So there was friendship. And he has written that bhakti is such a thing that muktiḥ mukulitāñjali sevate asmān: "Mukti, mukti is nothing for me." So this is his verse, muktiḥ mukulitāñjali sevate asmān: "So we have no desire for mukti. When Kṛṣṇa comes to supply milk, oh, then what is the use of my mukti?" You see? That's a great soul, Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura. It is worth to remember his name. For seven hundred hears he lived in Vṛndāvana, and he has written a nice book which is Kṛṣṇa-karṇāmṛta. That is a very authoritative book, Kṛṣṇa-karṇāmṛta. Lord Caitanya picked up this book, and He recommended all His devotees to read that Kṛṣṇa-karṇāmṛta book.
"The Absolute Truth, those who know about Absolute Truth, they say..." Śrīmad-Bhāgavata describes about the Absolute, vadanti tat tattva-vidaḥ. Tattva-vidaḥ means "those who are in the knowledge about the Absolute Truth." Vadanti tat: "They describe that thing as Absolute Truth." What is that? Advaya-jñāna: "There is no duality of knowledge." That is Absolute Truth. Vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvaṁ yad advaya-jñānam (SB 1.2.11). Advaya-jñānam means just like you are Mr. such and such, and when you are not present, if I ask, "Mr. such and such, please help me this way." But you are not present; you cannot help. Therefore it is duality. Your name and you, person—duality. And advaya-jñāna means, nonduality means, the person and the name is the same. Otherwise what is the use of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare? Then in that way I can chant anyone's name? No. This Kṛṣṇa name and Kṛṣṇa is Absolute Truth, advaya-jñāna, nonduality. Nonduality.
O the great, O the Supreme Personality of Godhead, O the Supersoul, O the master of mysticism, how You are acting tri-bhuvane, tri-bhuvane, within the three worlds?" Three world means that in the materially there is lower planet and middle planets and upper planets, these three worlds. So "How You are acting within these three worlds, and how You are utilizing Your internal potency, yogamāyā, extending Yourself in so many expansions, plenary expansions? Who can understand You? Nobody can understand You." You may say if nobody can understand, what is the use of discussing such things? That is the qualification of the devotees. In spite of their inability to understand His supremacy, the expansion, the extension of the Supreme Lord, still, by discussing about the Supreme Lord, hearing and chanting, they take transcendental pleasure. It is not that anybody can understand Kṛṣṇa, but still, it is a transcendental pleasure to try to understand. Not that we shall be able to understand Kṛṣṇa fully; it is not in our power. But still, bodhayantaḥ parasparam, tuṣyanti ca ramanti ca. Mahātmā, those who are great souls, in their society, in their spiritual society of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, by discussing about Kṛṣṇa in terms of the Vedic literature and authoritative literature, they enjoy transcendentally. This is transcendental pleasure. (end)
If you go up by a sputnik some few hundreds and thousands of miles, that is not joke. That is not to be ridiculed. But the danger is that if you do not have shelter, then you come down. If you have no shelter, then what is the use of going up? That shelter is Kṛṣṇa, that supreme abode or Vaikuṇṭhaloka, kingdom of God. So because they have no idea that there is kingdom of God or God is person, you can reach there, you can talk with Him, therefore they have no shelter and their intelligence is not purified, because they have not still completed what is actual knowledge. Actual knowledge, it is stated in the Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā: bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). That is actual knowledge. When he comes to the point of understanding the Supreme Personality of Godhead and surrenders: "My Lord, I have simply wasted my time in this way. Now I understand vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19), You are Vasudeva, Kṛṣṇa. You are everything." That is the ultimate end of knowledge. And so long one does not come to this point, it is to be understood that he has no shelter. And because he has no shelter, he has to come down again. Again. Again to the opening of hospitals and giving medicine or so many things philanthropic, what the ordinary men are doing. What is the use of your sannyāsa, renouncing this world? Brahmā satyaṁ jagan mithyā. Śaṅkarācārya's first principle is, "Give up this material world. This is all false, nonsense. Come to the Brahman platform." So if you go to the Brahman platform, why again you come to this nonsense platform? That means patanty adhaḥ. That means patanty adhaḥ.
So this kind of law student, that he has learned all laws and he has become lawyer officially by his degree, but he's not going to practice... So similarly, if we simply know what is Brahman and what is not Brahman, but do not practice, it is just like that. It is useless waste of time. If you become a medical man, but if you don't practice as a medical man, then why should you take so much trouble? Similarly, those jñānis and yogis, they do not take to the devotional service, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which is practical. If you... So far, we are trying to be practically employed in Kṛṣṇa's service. That is our business. We may not be haṭha-yogi or dhyāna-yogi or this yogi or that yogi or a very learned scholar, that we can distinguish and interpret that "Not to Kṛṣṇa but to myself." In this way I can waste my time. But if I do not apply myself (to) the purpose, then what is the use of? That is stated:
- ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas
- tvayy asta-bhāvād aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ
- āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ
- anādṛta-yuṣmad...
- (SB 10.2.32)
Such class of men simply trying to understand what is Brahman, what is not Brahman, but practically, he will simply be engaged in material sense enjoyment. He'll not give up anything, even not smoking. Anything will not give up. Everything he'll keep in contact, but he'll discuss very scholarly, "This is not Brahman, this is Brahman." This is simply waste of time. Teṣāṁ kleśala eva śiṣyate.
So there are six kinds of philosophers. Out of them, only the Vedānta philosophy is compiled by Vyāsadeva. So it is considered that Vedānta philosophy only establishes the existence of God. All other philosophies, they do not admit the existence of God. They are atheistic philosophies. Mīmāṁsaka. Mīmāṁsaka means they have decided that "There is no necessity of worshiping God. If there is any God, all right, you do your duty nicely, and He will be obliged to award you the required result. Then there is no question of flattering Him." That is mīmāṁsaka philosophy. Just like in government, there are so many departments. So you need not to flatter him, but you do your duty, you pay your tax, you abide by the laws, then everything will be right. You need not worship any person. That is their philosophy, mīmāṁsa karma-mīmāṁsa. Everyone is... Under the spell of karma, everyone is suffering or enjoying as the result of his past deeds. So the karma-mīmāṁsaka philosopher says, "There is no necessity of worshiping God. You do your duty." Just like some moralists say that "What is the use of God, God, Hare Kṛṣṇa? Just do your duty." But he does not know that what is his duty. The duty is only to worship God, and nothing more. That is the duty. All other duties are māyā's spell only. There is no other duty. Because this human life is meant for that duty. The animals cannot execute that duty. Only the human being. Therefore our only duty is to understand God and engage ourself in that way. So these different kinds of philosophies are there. We shall gradually discuss.
Sri Isopanisad Lectures
No, I wanted that śloka, kurvann eva. That is 2, yes. That's all right. So anyone will explain this,
- kurvann eveha karmāṇi
- jijīviṣec chataṁ samāḥ
- evaṁ tvayi nānyatheto 'sti
- na karma lipyate nare
So you should try to read the explanation, these word meanings. So kurvann eveha karmāṇi jijīviṣec chataṁ samāḥ. Samāḥ means years. You can live hundreds of years if you understand the philosophy of life. Otherwise, what is the use of living? The trees are also living for five hundred years, for thousands years. There is one tree in San Francisco... What is that wood?
Redwood. No. There is some wood, I forget. Crossing bridge. Anyway, they told me that this tree is standing for seven thousand years. So the trees are also living, and you are also living. You are trying to live. Whenever there is question of death, you resist. That means you do not want to die. That is natural sequence. So here it is said that why should you live? Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura says, ke lāgi āche, āchi...: "Why I am living? I could not achieve love of Godhead. Then what is the use of my living?" He's lamenting. Narottama dāsa kena na lāgilā māriyā. Kena vā ahcaya prāṇa kichuka lāgiyā (?). He said, "Why I am living? What is the purpose of my living? What is the ultimate happiness?" (end)
Sri Brahma-samhita Lectures
But we don't find so long yogis and prāṇāyāma wallas know anything about God. We have tested so many. They remain the same rascal. I have seen it. They do not... Ask him, any yogis, "What do you know about God?" Ask him. You can ask. You are press reporter. You can ask, "What do you know about God? Describe Him." So what is the rocket? Rocket means you should go immediately. But if you do not know, then what is the use of this rocket? If you do not know what is God, then what is the use of this rocket? Just like they are going to the rocket planet, moon planet. Now the American government stopped announcing this rascaldom. You know that? Yes. So if you actually have got rocket, then you must approach that you must know the thing. But simply waste your money and come back. So any sensible man will not allow this. This is good, prāṇāyāma. Rocket process, it may be. But we don't think that it is rocket process at the present age.
What is the use of that persons? Here, the mass of people take. All over the world. Suppose if there is some process, if, and one percent of the whole population, what is the use of such process? So that is very important thing. That is important process also, but it is not possible to be practiced by the present age. This is... (break) ...become purified, you understand that Kṛṣṇa is present on your tongue. (break) ...waterpot, you put it in the water. So long it is not filled up, it will make some sound. And when it is filled up and goes down, down to hell, then there is no cut, cut, cut.
Festival Lectures
A section of people, they are engaged in different activities. Not that a man is working as a carpenter and he's called, "Come on. You have to go to Vietnam to fight." This is not very scientific. He has been trained up as a carpenter, and now he's called to fight. That is not perfect division of... The fighting is required, but there must be a class fully trained up for fighting. That is kṣatriya. There must be a class of men simply for cultivation of spiritual knowledge. There must be a class fully for business, cow protection, agriculture. That is also required. Nothing is neglected. Just like in our body there are four parts; the mouth, the arms, the belly, and the legs. So everything is required for proper upkeep of the body. Not that you ask the mouth to walk or ask the leg to eat. How it is that? The modern civilization is defective. They do not know how to maintain society. There is therefore no peace. Especially there is want of brain. Crazy. Just like throughout the whole body, the head is the most important part of the body. If you cut your hands, you can live, but if you cut your head, you cannot live. Then whole thing is gone. Similarly, at the present moment the society is headless, a dead body, or head cracked, crazy. There is head, nonsense head. Nonsense head. What is the use of nonsense head? Therefore there is a great necessity of creating a class who will act as brain and head. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious movement.
Seriousness? If you become serious then you become, develop seriousness. If you are fickle, then how you can develop seriousness? Therefore the injunction is: yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. You should be very serious to abide by the orders of the spiritual master. Then you are serious. If you think that "Spiritual master is a man like me. Why shall I follow his instructions so strictly?" then you are not serious. Then what is the use of your being initiated? This is seriousness. And we are singing daily, yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ. What is the meaning of this?
So, to understand Kṛṣṇa, simply if we read as a formality the Vedic literature, it will be very difficult to understand what is Kṛṣṇa. Vedesu durlābhaṁ. Although all the Vedas are meant for understanding Kṛṣṇa. In the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyo. Aham eva vedyo. What is the use of studying Vedas if you do not understand Kṛṣṇa? Because the ultimate goal of education means to understand the Supreme Lord, the supreme father, the supreme cause. As it is said in the Vedānta-sūtra, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Brahma-jijñāsā, to discuss about the Supreme Absolute Truth, Brahman. What is that Brahman? Janmādy asya yataḥ. That Brahman means wherefrom everything emanates. So science, philosophy, means to find out the ultimate cause of everything. That we are getting from the śāstras, Vedic literature, that Kṛṣṇa is the cause of all causes. Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam. Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam.
So out of that independence we have come to this material world, to enjoy freely. So Kṛṣṇa has given us freedom, "You can enjoy freely." And we are trying to do that. But the result is that we are becoming entangled. We are given the freedom to work in this material world. Everyone is trying to become the master of the material world. Nobody is trying to become the servant. Only we, the Vaiṣṇavas, we are trying to become servant. The karmīs and jñānīs, they do not like to become servant. They criticize us that "You Vaiṣṇavas, you have got slave mentality." Yes, we have got the slave menta... Caitanya Mahāprabhu has taught, gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ (CC Madhya 13.80). That is our position. What is the use of claiming artificially, "I am master"? If I had been master, then why the fan is required? I am servant of this influence of summer season. Similarly, I shall be servant in the winter season, too much cold.
So mistake, illusion, and cheating. Everyone wants to cheat others. This is the dealing. Suppose we are businessman, making some agreement. So I am trying to make the agreement in my favor; you are trying to make the agreement in your favor. I am thinking, "I have cheated this person. I am so clever." You see? So the cheating propensity is there, even we hide something. Even husband and wife, we cheat one another, what to speak of man... Even sometimes father and son, what to speak of other relation. So cheating propensity is... First that we commit mistake, we are illusioned, we cheat, and at the end, all our senses are imperfect. Just like we are very much proud of seeing. Everyone says, "Can you show me? I want to see." And what can you see? What is the power of seeing? At night, if there is no sunshine, you cannot see, so what is the use of your seeing? If there is wall, you cannot see what is beyond the wall. You are seeing every day the sun, but we are seeing just like a small disc. But actually it is fourteen hundred thousand times bigger than this earth. Similarly, we cannot see which is situated a very long distance. We cannot see even the eyelid which is actually with the eyes. But we cannot see it. In this way, if you study, every one of your senses you will find imperfect.
So your senses are imperfect, you are cheating, you are illusioned, and you commit mistake. How you can give perfect knowledge? Therefore we don't accept any knowledge from an imperfect personality. Because that is imperfect knowledge, what is the use of that knowledge? Theorizing. No theory. We want to know fact. That is perfect knowledge. So that perfect knowledge can come from God. And one who distributes that knowledge exactly as God has said, he is perfect. Just like a post peon comes and delivers you, say, one hundred dollars. So he is not delivering that one hundred dollars. Your friend has sent you one hundred dollars, and his business is to hand over that one hundred dollars as it is, without any change, without taking one dollar from it, no, or adding. No addition, no subtraction. His honesty, his perfection, is that he delivers you that hundred dollars which is sent by your friend. That is his honest..., perfection. He may be imperfect in so many others ways, but when he does his business perfectly, he is perfect. Similarly, our, this Vyāsa-pūjā means we receive perfect knowledge from Kṛṣṇa through the agency of spiritual master.
You cannot have spiritual knowledge simply by speculating. Impossible. Simply waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). You must go to the... In the Bhagavad-gītā, therefore, it is recommended, ācāryopāsanam. Ācārya-upāsanā. Not only worshiping the Lord, but also the ācārya. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpayā pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). Guru, ācārya, and Kṛṣṇa. One should seek favor of both of them. Not that "I am now seeking favor of Kṛṣṇa. What is the use of guru or ācārya?" No. You cannot overlap ācārya and go to Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. Kṛṣṇa will not accept you. Just like if you want to see a big man you should go through his secretary, through his orderly, doorkeeper; similarly, our process is ācāryopāsanam, go through the ācārya. That is the injunction of the Vedas. Tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ. If you want to enter into the spiritual world, you cannot get through simply by arguments. Because there is no limit of argument. I place my argument in one way. Another man, who is better arguer, he places his argument in a different way. So if you simply go on arguing, it is not possible. Tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ. It will never help you. Argument. Śrutayo vibhinnāḥ. If you think that "I shall read scriptures and I shall understand God," no, that is also not possible. Śrutayo vibhinnāḥ. Scriptures are also different. Because scriptures are made according to time, circumstances, people.
No, no. Bona fide spiritual means he must get knowledge. He must get knowledge. He must inquire from the... The student must inquire from the spiritual master. If he remains dumb, then what bona fide spiritual master can do? Ādau gurv-āśrayaṁ sad-dharma-pṛcchat, jijñāsuḥ. He must be jijñāsuḥ. He must be jijñāsuḥ. We get so many letters daily. So many inquiries. The student must be very inquisitive. Otherwise how he shall make progress? If he remains dumb, then what the bona fide spiritual master can do? If you go to a very nice school but if you do not study, if you do not inquire, then what is the use of going to the nice school? You must be also very alert to inquire, to understand, to make progress. Then it will be all right. If you do not utilize the benefit of having a bona fide spiritual master, then that is your fault. You must utilize the opportunity. We are publishing so many books, so many literatures, magazines. Why? Just to enlighten more and more. But if you don't take advantage of this, then how can you make progress? Change of spiritual master requires when the spiritual master is not bona fide. Otherwise there is no necessity of changing.
This very word is used here, that "He knew everything," Bhagavān. Because Bhagavān means He must know everything, past, present future. There is no lack of knowledge. I have several times described before you. Bhagavān means He is full of all opulences, and there are six opulences: riches, strength, fame, beauty, knowledge, and renunciation. So Bhagavān cannot be in lack of knowledge. He must know everything. That is Bhagavān. So therefore it is said that "What is the use of asking His father what they were going to do? He knew everything." But it is specifically mentioned, atad abhijño'pi. Although He knew it, because He was playing the part of a boy, and the father knew that "Kṛṣṇa is my son..." They did not recognize Him that He is Personality of Godhead. They knew, "Oh, He is my ordinary son." Tad abhijño'pi bhagavān sarvātmā. Sarvātmā means one who is situated in everyone's heart. Sarvātmā sarva-darśanaḥ. Sarva-darśanaḥ means one who can see everything past, present, and future. Still, praśrāyavantaḥ, "Just like an obedient son, submissive son," apṛcchad vṛddhān nanda-puro-gamān, "the elderly persons of His father's friends and associates, with very humbleness, He inquired." He inquired.
"Now, supposing there is somebody." Because these atheists, they do not believe in God, now they are giving arguments. "Now, suppose there is somebody as God or some supervisor or something like that. But still, he is obliged to give Me the effect. Therefore I am not going to ask mercy from that superior personality, God or something else. I have to work." And this is also fact. Suppose you are going to appear in some examination. Now, the university is giving you some designation. Now, that designation practically depends on your passing the examination. What is the use of flattering that examiner? That is the argument. There is no... His argument is that "You are after the sacrifice of satisfying the Indra." So indirectly He says that Indra is appointed by the Lord and he has to supply water. He is officer. So what is the use of flattering him? Just like there are many officers in the New York City. One is in charge of the waterwork department. So there is no question of flattering that waterworks department officer. You pay your tax, you work nicely, and water will be supplied to you. But if you don't pay your tax, however you flatter that officer, your connection will be cut off. So it depends on your work. It depends on your work.
So, asti ced īśvaraḥ kaścit: "Supposing there is some God..." "There is some God." Just see. A God is preaching atheism. He is God Himself, and He says, "Supposing if there is some God." "Supposing if there is some God," kaścit phala-rūpy anya-karmaṇām, "and He gives the result of your work." The karma-mimāṁsā philosophers, they accept God in this way, "Suppose there is God and He is to give us the result. So He is obliged. If we do nice work, He is obliged. So what is the use of flattering God? Let us do our duty nicely. Then He will be obliged." So Kṛṣṇa is following that argument. Asti ced īśvaraḥ kaścit phala-rūpy anya-karmaṇām, kartāraṁ bhajate so 'pi: "He also worships the worker. The worker has not to worship God. Because God gives you good result out of your good work; therefore, because you are doing good work, therefore God is worshiping you." Just see the argument. He says, kartāraṁ bhajate so 'pi na hy akartuḥ prabhur: "And one who does not do good work, even God does not like him. So there is no necessity of worshiping this heavenly god or any god, so let us have our duty done nicely. That will fetch us the desired result."
"Now, according to scripture, we are vaiśya, and we should live not in the brahminical way or kṣatriya's way or śūdra's way, but we should live just like vaiśyas; and we are actually agriculturists, and we are actually protecting cows. Therefore we are vaiśyas. Our duty is to stick to our, faithfully stick to our business, stick to our work. What is the use of worshiping this god or that god?"
- sattvaṁ rajas tama iti
- sthity-utpatti-anta-hetavaḥ
- rajasotpadyate viśvam
- anyonyaṁ vividhaṁ jagat
Now He is forwarding the atheistic theory of Kapila, sāṅkhya philosophy. Sāṅkhya philosophy. Sāṅkhya philosophy theory is that there is no controller, there is no God, but the world is moving under nature's interaction. Just the modern scientists also say like that. The world... Every action of this material world is being acted... Just like sāṅkhya philosophy is based on this philosophy, that a man and woman is attracted and they have sex life and the son is produced, and there is no other reason for population. Simply a man wants a woman and a woman wants a man. That natural tendency is there, and when they combine together there is a birth of a child. So this is a natural sequence. Sāṅkhya philosophy is based on this principle.
If he becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious by bona fide process, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśrityā. Vyapāśrityā means bona fide process. Not an imitation, bona fide. And bona fide means as they are depicted, as they are described, as they are enjoined in the authorized śāstra like śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi-pañca... (Brs. 1.2.101). Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśrityā ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ. Never mind in whatever family one is born, sinful family, never mind. Striyaḥ śūdrās tathā vaiśyaḥ, including woman and śūdras and vaiśyas, they are considered as less intelligent. They are considered as less intelligent. Therefore, according to Vedic system, a boy born in a brāhmaṇa family, he is allowed all the saṁskāras, reformatory, purificatory process, but the girl is not. Why? Now, because a girl has to follow her husband. So if her husband is brāhmaṇa, automatically she becomes brāhmaṇa. There is no need of separate reformation. And by chance she may be married with a person who is not a brāhmaṇa, then what is the use of making her a brāhmaṇa? That is the general method. So therefore the, even born in a brāhmaṇa family, a woman is taken as woman, not as brāhmaṇa. But Kṛṣṇa says, "Never mind. Even if she is woman, even she is śūdra, even she is vaiśya, or any other, I mean to say, family born in, never mind." Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśrityā (BG 9.32), if anyone is bona fidely made Kṛṣṇa conscious, te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim, so his way is open to the path of Vaikuṇṭha, parāṁ gatim. Kiṁ punar brāhmaṇāḥ puṇyā bhaktā rājarṣayas tathā (BG 9.33).
Arrival Addresses and Talks
Jayatīrtha: By the end of July they'll be... So it is going very fast now.
Prabhupāda: Very good. Tūrṇaṁ yateta. We should try very fast before the next death comes. And death will come. So we shall prepare in such a way that before the next death comes, our, we finish our Kṛṣṇa consciousness business and go back to home, back to Godhead. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). This is perfection. Because if we wait for another birth, maybe we may not get. Even Bhārata Mahārāja, he also slipped. He became a deer. So we should always be vigilant that "We have got this opportunity, human form of life. Let us utilize it to the fullest extent and be fit for going back to home, back to Godhead." That is intelligence. Not that "All right, I shall get again chance next birth." That is not very good policy. Tūrṇam. Tūrṇam means very hastily finish. Tūrṇaṁ yateta anumṛtyuṁ pated yāvat. (sound of men practicing karate outside has pervaded background of entire room conversation) These people are wasting time, as if they will live forever. (chuckles) What is the use of this kar...?
Jayatīrtha: Karate.
Prabhupāda: Karate. It is very popular in Mexico.
Jayatīrtha: Everywhere.
So despite artificial distinction... Just like a man's body and a female's body, woman's body, the bodily structure is different. How you can say they are equal? No. When you see the external structure of the body of man and woman, there is difference. But despite this difference, when the man and woman think in connection with Kṛṣṇa, they are equal. That is wanted. Our proposition is that artificially you do not try to make equality. That will be failure. It is already failure. Now how you can...? Just like I have seen in London, woman police. So woman police, so I was joking with her, "If I capture your hand and snatch you, what you will do? You are policeman. (laughter) You will cry simply. So what is the use of your becoming policeman?" Policeman requires bodily strength. If there is some hooligan, you can give him one slap or catch him, but what the woman will do? So we say that be practical. Artificial equality will not endure. We are equal, undoubtedly, because we are all spirit souls. Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prā... (BG 2.13). Asmin dehe, within this body, there is the spirit soul. That we have to understand first of all. And then, if we cultivate on that platform of spirit soul, then we shall feel equal and there will be no disturbance. Everyone will be peaceful. That is wanted. We are stressing that point, that artificially, if you say that "We are all equal," it will not act. But spiritually, when you understand equality, that will continue, and that will bring peace and happiness all over the human society.
Devotee: What is the best way to deal with skepticism?
Prabhupāda: Skepticism, rascalism. (laughter) We are not going to deal with rascalism. We are going to deal with sense. Skepticism means they do not believe in anything. Everything is false. They are so disappointed, they think everything is false. We are not going to deal with such men. What is the use? Is not that skepticism? What is that skepticism?
Devotee: Disappointment.
Prabhupāda: That's all. So why one should be disappointed? We say that "You come to the spiritual platform. You will be happy." We want to deliver him from the platform of disappointment. Sometimes one, being very disappointed, he commits suicide. But will anybody recommend that, that "You are so disappointed. Now you commit suicide"? Nobody will do so. So similarly, the skepticism is disappointed. We say, "Why you are disappointed? You come to the spiritual platform, and you will be happy." That is our version. So we are not going to accept his philosophy, skepticism, but we want to deliver him from this fallen condition. That is our mission. He is in false conception, that disappointment. Why? Our Vedic literature says, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). The living entity, the spirit soul, is by nature happy. There is no question of disappointment. You see Kṛṣṇa's picture anywhere, how they are happy. The gopīs are happy, the cowherd boys are happy, Kṛṣṇa is happy. Simply happiness.
Indian man (1): What sister wants to know is that how can we add in innumerable, rather, uncountless schools and colleges? The management will be most willing, I mean, the progressive management will be most willing to introduce classes where such laws of nature and such-on scientific line, without giving it a Hindu or religious name. That should be taught. A curriculum should be drawn up. Because we control some of the schools.
Prabhupāda: That is my program. I am writing all books just only on this point; therefore they are coming. Otherwise, what is the use? They were Christians and Jews. What is the use of becoming Hindus? So anyone wants to understand what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, they can understand easily if he joins Hare Kṛṣṇa, chant. That is all right. If he wants to understand scientifically, there are eighty-four books. Come on. Which way you want?
Indian man (1): No. What we want is a very simple curricular. Elementary type.
Prabhupāda: Simple, this is simple curricular.
Indian man (1): So that they gradually, as a child grows into adolescence, when his intelligence also grows, his knowledge also grows. And then we give him still more deeper knowledge of the various things which we have been teaching on elementary basis. And still deeper. Just like this.
Prabhupāda: Just like this child, this boy inquired, "What is God?" So he can be instructed that "God is the Supreme Controller, just like your father is your controller." He'll accept this. Can you go against your father's will? He says no. He'll say naturally.
Initiation Lectures
First of all name, then quality, then form, then pastimes, then entourage. In this way God has everything. When we say "king," "king" means his kingdom, his palace, his secretary, his queen, so many, his government, go on expanding, so many things, simply by one word, "king." "King" does not mean simply one person. Similarly, when we say "God" or "Kṛṣṇa," immediately it is to be understood that He has so many things behind Him. So many... The whole world is behind Him. So how to understand? Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi. His name, His quality, His forms, His entourage, His expansion. Na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ. These indriya, these senses, materially contaminated, cannot understand, cannot grasp what is the name of Kṛṣṇa, what is the form of Kṛṣṇa, what is the quality of Kṛṣṇa. Then? "Why you are taking so much trouble? If by these senses we cannot understand Kṛṣṇa, then what is the use of wasting time?" No. The next line is, sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ (CC Madhya 17.136). You cannot understand by exercising your senses, but He reveals. To whom? Who is in the service attitude, jihvādau, beginning from the tongue. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau. Of all the senses, the tongue is considered to be the principal sense. So tongue, if the tongue is trained, or the tongue is spiritualized, then naturally all the senses become spiritualized. So jihvādau. So our training is the tongue training. Train it chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and let it taste Kṛṣṇa prasādam. Then what will be? The all other senses... There are five senses for acquiring knowledge, five senses for acting. Everything will be controlled. And devotional service, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, means sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). By contacting relationship with Kṛṣṇa, the senses become purified. And what is the symptom of purification? Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam, to become uncontaminated by the designative material identification. There are so many things.
Yes. This is one offense. These are offenses. When we accept spiritual master, it is understood that you cannot deny his order. Just like Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna was talking as friends, but when Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa as spiritual master, he was simply hearing, and whenever there was difficulty to understand, he was questioning. Not that he was equally arguing with Kṛṣṇa. Before accepting Him, he was arguing. So this is the position. Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He said that "My spiritual master found Me a great fool (CC Adi 7.71)." Caitanya Mahāprabhu is not a fool, but it is the good qualification of a disciple to remain a fool before the spiritual master. Therefore he'll never, I mean to say, dare to argue or disobey. That is offense. Now, go on. That does not mean that when you cannot understand, you cannot question. Question must be there. That is stated in this Bhagavad-gītā, tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34). Your relationship is to know from a spiritual master everything, but you should know that with three things. What is that? First of all you should surrender. You must accept the spiritual master as greater than you. Otherwise what is the use of accepting one spiritual master? Praṇipāt. Praṇipāt means surrendering; and paripraśna, and questioning; and sevā, and service. There must be two sides, service and surrender, and in the middle there must be question. Otherwise there is no question and answer. Two things must be there: service and surrender. Then answer of question is nice.
Yes. Those who do not believe in God, atheists, what is the use of...? But not to bother him, but give him the chance of hearing. That will make him competent to come forward. Therefore we are distributing this holy name. Not that everyone will be immediately turned to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but we are giving chance. If they hear... You have got practical experience. Somebody's hearing, he's reforming. So we should give chance. But if one is staunch atheist, we should not talk very much with him about Kṛṣṇa. He may say something against, offensive. Yes. Then?
So now you come here. You have given... There is no āsana, sitting? Give him one piece of... So I shall perform this initiation ceremony. If you kindly sit, you can see. (break) I am traveling everywhere. Next I am going to San Francisco. But my disciples, they will stay here. This Gaurasundara dāsa, Mr. Gary, he will live here with his wife. Yes. So temple, if people come, that is temple. You see? That is temple. And if we, suppose, construct a huge building and nobody comes, then what is the use of spending money? We are not after such thing. But if somebody has got money, he wants to construct temple, it is welcome. We can give nice plan how to do it. In India there are Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa temples, just like one temple is as good as a big fort. They spend so much. You see? But here also, in your country, there are many big churches. So people, formerly they were religiously inclined. So either Christian, Muhammadan or Hindus or anyone, they were constructing temple, churches, mosques. But that mentality is gone. You see? They will spend lots of money for a skyscraper building to get income, and temple is called nonproductive building. You see? They do not wish to engage their money in nonproductive thing because they have become economic. But that is wrong theory. You see? That economic means forgetting God. And that means, I mean to say, animal life. If by becoming a human being, he becomes an animal, if he thinks that he has become economical, that is not very sane conclusion. So godless means animal. The animals, they do not know how to create a church or temple or mosque. The mosque or temple or church, they are done in the human society. So when the human society forgets this responsibility from economic point of view, that means they degrade to the animal life.
Similarly, any lowborn, it doesn't matter what he is, if proper initiation is conducted, then tathā dīkṣā-vidhānena dvijatvaṁ jāyate nṛṇām, he becomes a brāhmaṇa. He becomes a brāhmaṇa. Dvijatvam. Dvija means twice-born. Any man. In India there are many rascals who think that without being born in a brāhmaṇa family nobody can become brāhmaṇa. That is not the verdict of śāstra. Here is a verse in the Bhāgavata, kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ ye 'nye ca papa (SB 2.4.18). Not only all these mentioned, kirāta-hūṇāndhra... Hūṇa. Hūṇa class is found still on the northern side of Russia and Germany. When I went to Moscow I have seen, they're so much addicted to meat-eating. They're simply eating meat. In Russia also. They do not eat much fruits or vegetables, or not available. So these... Low class means the more they are addicted to meat-eating. Just like animals. They may be very strong. A tiger is also strong, but what is the use of it? Nobody cares for the tiger. Although tiger is very strong, one is afraid of it, but if you become a tiger what is the use of it? So this material civilization, they are trying to make this body tigerlike strong. They do not know that what is the usefulness of tiger. No use for... At least, for human society they are simply meant for being killed, shooting. So this demonic civilization is simply meant for being shooted by the laws of nature. Therefore you'll find revolution, war, in the western part of the world. They are being shooted by the laws of nature. They are thinking, "If we become tigerlike, our life is successful." But they do not know that if you become tigerlike, demon, you are just become suitable for being shooted. That's all. (laughter) They do not know this.
General Lectures
So this is the greatest service to the human society, to get out them from the darkness of ignorance. That is the greatest gift. If you put him into the darkness... Suppose a man is suffering from disease and he is asking, "Sir, I am very hungry. Give me some food." If you give him some rasagullā or some very nice foodstuff, neither he cannot eat, neither he can enjoy. And by supplying such things you are making him more and more diseased. You have to cure the disease. Then give him. That's right. So there is no curing process. Simply sense gratification. I want to satisfy my senses, and if somebody talks about my sense gratification, oh, I receive him very nicely. You see? And as soon as one says that "You are diseased. You cannot satisfy your senses without restriction. Then you will continue your disease," "Oh, this is not good. This doctor is not good." This is going on. You want to be cheated; therefore there are..., so many cheaters are coming. Just like this Maharishi came. "Yes, enjoy your senses. Enjoy. Simply pay me thirty-five dollars. I give you some mantra." People gave him thousand, millions of dollars, and at the end both of them became dissatisfied. He said, "It is failure," and who were followers, they left him. So what is the use of? Don't try to be cheated. If you want to be cheated, then Kṛṣṇa will send you some cheater. And if you want to be really profited, if you simply think of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa... (end)
Unfortunately, people in the present age, they think that God is dead. And what is the use of chanting something, somebody who is dead, chanting the holy name of God, who is already dead? The other day I was speaking in the church that God is not dead. God cannot be dead. Neither you or me cannot be dead. There is living symptom in your body, and there is living symptom in the cosmic manifestation also. Just try to understand what is God. Then place your verdict, whether God is dead or not. How God can be dead? Just like when a man is lying on the floor, if his vital condition, his pulses, his heart is going on, then how you can say that that man is dead? Similarly, if you study the cosmic manifestation... Of course, it is a subject matter to be learned very scrutinizingly with calm head, that as your body is functioning nicely by physiological arrangement, similarly, the body of the cosmic nature, by physical arrangement it is also moving nicely. Therefore, so long your bodily functions are going on nicely, you are not dead. Similarly, the Supreme Soul is also not dead because by the symptom of His gigantic body, universal body, we see that everything is nicely going on. So God is not dead.
So one who is inquisitive about understanding that knowledge, he requires a spiritual master. Not that one who wants to keep this body fit or wants to reduce fat. No. For him there is no necessity of spiritual master. That he can go to a doctor or a medical physician. That's all. He can advise. What is the use of going to a spiritual master? Spiritual master means jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. Who can teach you about the highest benediction, he is spiritual master. So we shall discuss in next meeting. This is very interesting, and you'll be profited if you please come and hear.
Our awareness is there. You love somebody. But you are meant to love Kṛṣṇa, that you have forgotten. So forgetfulness is also our nature. Sometimes we forget. And especially because we are very small, minute, therefore even I cannot remember exactly what I was doing last night at this time. So forgetfulness is not unnatural for us. And again, if somebody revives our memory, to accept that, that is also not unnatural. So our loving object is Kṛṣṇa. Somehow or other, we have forgotten Him. We don't trace the history when we forgot. That is useless labor. But we have forgotten, that is a fact. Now revive it. Here is reminder. So take opportunity. Don't try to history why you have forgotten and what was the date of my forgetfulness. Even if you know, what is the use? You have forgotten. Take it. Just like if you go to a physician, he'll never ask you how you got this disease, what is the history of this disease, at what date, at what time you were infected.
So Śukadeva Gosvāmī's question is that suppose a man commits some sinful activities and he executes some atonement. In atone... This atonement is prescribed in every religion... (child sounds in background) (aside:) This is disturbing. Attention is diverted. Yes. So just like in the Christian church, they have the atonement process, confession. So suppose if you go weekly in the church and confess your sinful activities and it is excused, but again, next week you again commit the same sinful activities. Then what is the use of that confession and atonement? If you make it a business that "The whole week I shall commit sinful activities, and on Sunday I shall go to church and confess it, then everything will be balanced, squared-off account," that is all right. Then again from Monday you begin the sinful activities. So is that very good business? So Parīkṣit Mahārāja's question is that, that the atonement is there. But if one commits atonement and again commits sinful activities, then what is the use of such atonement? It is just like... He gave the example, kuñjara-snānavat. The elephant takes bath very nicely in the water, and as soon as he comes on the land, he takes dust and throws over, all over the body. So what is the use of taking bath? Similarly, if I am accustomed to commit sinful activities and for that reason I confess and make some atonement, then what is the use? That is the question of Parīkṣit Mahārāja. He's very intelligent. If I do again and again and again the same thing and make some atonement... So in every religion there are processes of atonement, prāyaścitta. In Hindu religion also there is such thing. Every religion such thing is there. But the purpose of such atonement is to bring the man, criminal man to consciousness. He should be conscious of his sinful activities. That is the idea. Just like a child has committed some wrong and he comes to the father. The father sees that he has done something wrong.
If you do not come to the point of worshiping Hari, then all these things are useless. Tataḥ kim. Antarbahir yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim. If you always see Hari within yourself and if you see Hari always outside, inside and outside... Tad vantike tad dūre tad... What is that verse? Īśopaniṣad? Tad antare... Dūre tad antike sarvasya. Hari is present everywhere, so one who sees Hari, antike, near, or distant place, within, outside, he does not see anything except Hari. How it becomes possible? Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena (Bs. 5.38). When one is merged into the love of God, he does not see anything in the world except Hari. That is his vision. So antarbahir yadi hari, inside and outside, if you always see Hari, Kṛṣṇa, tapasā tataḥ kim, then what is the use of your other austerities and penances? You are on the topmost level. That is wanted. Nanta-bahir yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim. And if you do not see within and outside Hari always, then what is the value of your austerities? Therefore in the morning we chant this mantra, govindam ādi-puruṣam tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. We have no other business. Simply we have to satisfy Govinda, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. Then everything is complete. He is complete and His worship is complete, His devotee is complete. Everything is complete.
Just like when I was in San Francisco, so many reporters asked my opinion: "Swamijī, what is your opinion that they have gone to the moon planet?" I told, "It is simply waste of time." Oh, what is the use of going there and catch some sands and come back? You live there, utilize; otherwise, what is the value? What is the use of spending so much money? Similarly, if you simply realize that "I am Brahman," you cannot utilize the opportunity, then what is the use of realization? You'll surely fall down. Just like the man has come down again. He may advertise, "Oh, I went to moon planet." That's all right, but what you have gained? You are liv... You are here, like me, with me. What is your extra qualification? You are now living with me. Why did you... Rather, I did not take so much trouble. You have taken so much trouble, and you have come back again. So what is the use of such realization if you cannot utilize it? So Brahman realization is not sufficient, that "I am not this body," ahaṁ brahma. No. That is clearly stated in Bhagavad-gītā. Brahman realization is not rejected, but if you do not go further, do not make further progress, then it is useless waste of time. Exactly like that: if you cannot go further, make arrangements how to live... You go with great speed in the space, but if you cannot stay in any other planet, then you come back again here. That's a fact. Similarly, you go, you realize Brahman—that's very nice—but if you cannot stay in the Brahman realization and again come to this bodily realization, bodily platform, then what is the use? Why you have taken so much trouble? Just after meditation, if you come again and you take to these, all these nonsense habits again, then what is the use? You must stay.
So the Gosvāmīs showed us the way. Then next, śrī-gaurāṅga-guṇānuvarṇana-vidhau. They were very expert in describing the transcendental qualities of Lord Sri Caitanya, Gaurasundara, śrī-gaurāṅga-guṇānuvarṇana-vidhau. So in this way they passed their life in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and if we'll follow the footsteps of such mahājana, mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). Our business is, we haven't got to make research work. Everything is there, given by the Gosvāmīs and ācārya. We have simply to follow. That's all. Who, what is Kṛṣṇa, what is God, you haven't got to make research. Kṛṣṇa is personally saying about Himself, Bhagavad-gītā, "I am like this." Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya (BG 7.8), mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. So these are thing there. You have simply to accept it, to know it and follow it. Then your life is successful. We are not so foolish that we are going to make research work. Why? When there are so many things present already, what is the use of research work? First of all assimilate what is already there. And what is research you can make? Your senses are faulty, imperfect. What research you can work? So that is not possible. That is humbug. You simply try to understand, without any malinterpretation, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, and you understand what is Kṛṣṇa, what is God. And you follow the ācāryas, then your life is successful.
So if we want to love Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa will let us know. Kṛṣṇa is within you. Simply we have to decide that we shall love Kṛṣṇa only. That is wanted. Then everything is there. Ārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim, nārādhito yadi haris tapasā tataḥ kim (Nārada Pañcarātra). The kim word is used: "What is the use of?" That is kim. So the śāstra says that if you have learned how to love Kṛṣṇa, then what is the use of these books? There is no use. You can avoid anything, all this reading. But if you have actually developed your love for Kṛṣṇa... And after reading all these books, philosophy, science, if you cannot love Kṛṣṇa, then what is the use of it? Both ways. Useless. If you do not love, do not develop your love for God or Kṛṣṇa, then what is the use of your philosophizing and scientific knowledge? This is all useless. And if you actually have learned how to love Kṛṣṇa, or God, then there is (no) need of philosophy or science or books. So therefore the main point is how to develop. Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommends this. Premā pumartho mahān. Our greatest success of life is how to love God, Kṛṣṇa. That is greatest success. Now you can do it. But there is prescribed method, given by great ācāryas. Just like in this temple we are doing. We are timely giving. The atheist will say, "Oh, these are so foolish that they are taking so much labor for preparing food and offering and wasting time. Best thing would have been to go to some club and enjoy wine and playing cards." They'll waste time in that way, but when... We are not wasting, but they say we are wasting time. They will criticize. You see? They are prepared to waste time in a brothel, but if people are sitting nicely in a temple and talking of Kṛṣṇa, serving Kṛṣṇa, they will laugh. That is our position. So we have to become callous to all these criticisms. We have to go with our business, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That's all.
So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, there is austerity, but it is not very difficult. We recommend our students not to have illicit sex. We don't stop sex, but regulate. We don't stop eating, but regulated, Kṛṣṇa prasādam. No meat-eating. No... We don't say, "No eating," but "No meat-eating." So what is the difficulty? Now see. In our Kṛṣṇa-prasādam, we have got so many varieties of fruits, vegetables, nicely cooked. What is the difficulty? No illicit sex means don't be cats and dogs. Be married man and have one wife, one husband, and be satisfied. So unless we regulate, unless we undergo austerity... We cannot under go such severe type of austerity as Dhruva Mahārāja went, that every three days a little fruit or vegetable, then every six days a little water. That is not possible in these days. If you want to imitate Dhruva Mahārāja, it will be impossible. So we don't prescribe any impossible method, but possible method. But if you take to these principles, then you make advance in spiritual consciousness, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and as you make advancement in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you become perfect in knowledge. Otherwise, what is the use of becoming scientist or philosopher who cannot say what is next life? But these students, they can very easily say what is next life, what is God, what I am, what is our relationship. This knowledge, you'll find perfectly, because they are reading perfect book of knowledge, Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
In America, in New York, there is United Nations. They are spending millions of dollars every month, but they cannot stop war. Simply the flag is increasing. That's all. Because it is godless. They may talk all big, big words in the assembly, but at heart they are all dishonest, politicians. And God consciousness means cleansed heart. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). "I am servant of God." That is wanted. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ (SB 5.18.12). This is the definition given in Vedic literature, that "If anyone develops God consciousness, then all the good qualities will develop automatically. And you give him all kinds of education, but if he is godless, it is all useless." That is compared with decorating the dead body. Just like dead body. A dead body is decorated. So it may be a satisfaction for the relatives, but what is the use of it, decorating a dead body? Bhagavad-bhakti-hīnasya jātiḥ japas tapaḥ kriyaḥ: "Great nationality, great work, great achievement, minus bhagavad-bhakti, God consciousness, is just like decorating the dead body." That's all. What is the use of decorating the dead body? Because actually this body is dead. As soon as the soul is away from this body, it is a lump of matter. So when the soul is off from the body, if somebody decorates that dead body, what is use? It is simply concoction. That's all. Therefore according to Vedic system, as soon as a body is dead, there is no question of decorating. Immediately burn it and finish. Make it into ashes. That's all. The body has no importance. Real, the soul is important, the living force. So we have no education about that living force, and the original living force is Kṛṣṇa, or God. So we have no information. So therefore this education is very, very essential, at least at the present moment. You may educate in any way—Christian way, Hindu way, Muslim—but educate all the people about God consciousness. Otherwise there is doom.
No. Just like in the Bible it is said, "God said, 'Let there be creation,' and there was creation." Is it not? It is fact. It is fact. Now you find out who created this universe. If you deny this fact, "No. God does not create," then you explain how it was created. So there is no difference between Bible and Vedic literature. We accept also, "God created." But in the Vedic literature you will find how God created. That you'll find. So if you are actually serious to understand how God created, why don't you come to Vedic literature? That is the duty of every student. If you are after the knowledge, why should you stick to one particular place or...? If the knowledge is available in other places, you must have it. That is inquisitiveness, seriousness. But if you say, "No. We are Christian. We have studied Bible. That is all. We do not touch," I don't think that is very nice conclusion. You remain Christian, but what is the harm to study other literatures where more informations are there? That is quite reasonable. We are not asking you to become Hindus. We simply want to, everyone, that you become God conscious. That is our mission. Our mission is not that to convert. What is the use of converting? If my habits are the same... Suppose I am Hindu. I become Christian, but my habits are not changed. Then what is the use of becoming from Hindu or Christian or to Christian or Hindu?
There are many other symptoms of the living entity. They are described in the Bhagavad-gītā very nicely, positively and negatively. In some of the verses, the definition is being given in negation: "It is not this." Because with our blunt material eyes, we cannot find out where is the soul in this body; therefore Kṛṣṇa is describing the characteristic of the soul in a negative way in several verses. And you know that sometimes it is required, according to logic, that definition by negation: "It is not this." I cannot express for the time being a thing, what it is, but I can distinguish what it is not. So similarly, at the present moment, everyone is under ignorance. He does not know what is the soul. That is the basic principle of missing point of this material civilization. I talked with many big, big professors in Europe. Most of them, they do not know what is the soul. (aside:) That sound cannot be stopped for the time being? When I was in Moscow, I had the opportunity of talking with some professors. One of them was very interested, Professor Kotovsky. So he said, "Swamijī, after death everything is finished." So I was simply surprised that a responsible professor, teaching staff, he's completely in ignorance about the existence of soul. So that is the defect of the modern civilization. One who is not perfect in knowledge, he is as a teacher, he's passing on as a teacher. Andhā yathāndair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ. Andhāḥ means blind. One blind man, he is trying to help other blind man. So what is the use of such advancement of education? If the teacher himself is blind, then what is the use of taking knowledge from him? That is going on.
Yes. Therefore your material method is imperfect to detect where is the soul. The soul is there, and the dimension is also there: one ten-thousandth part of the tip of your hair. So you have no eyes to see. But soul is there; that is evident. But as soon as the soul is gone, this body—is beautiful body—is a dead lump of matter only. That distinction is there. Therefore we have to hear from the authority what is that soul. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is describing... First of all, He said that there is soul within this body. Dehino 'smin yathā dehaṁ dehī, deha. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam... (BG 2.13). Because the soul is there, therefore we are changing different types of body. Just like because you are living, therefore there is coat and shirt. But if you are not living, what is the use of this coat and shirt? There is no question of coat and shirt. Similarly, because the soul is there, therefore the body has developed, according to the desire of the soul. But it is very, very minute. With our, these blunt eyes and blunt senses, we cannot capture. But there is. We have to conceive it from the authoritative statement of higher knowledge, knowledgeable person. Just like we are trying to learn from the Bhagavad-gītā as it is. It is being taught by Kṛṣṇa. So things which are beyond your perception, you have to know it from authority. Just like the example: Who is my father? We cannot make any experiment.
Because Kṛṣṇa has been accepted as the teacher. First of all, Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna were talking as friends. But when Arjuna saw it that friendly talking will not make any solution of the problem, so at that time, he surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, and that "I become Your disciple," śiṣyas te 'ham śādhi māṁ (tvāṁ) prapannam, "and I surrender unto You." That is the relationship between teacher and the student. The student must receive knowledge submissively, not by challenge. Therefore, one has to select a teacher where one can submit. That is the process. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34). Teacher must be approached with submission. Tad viddhi praṇipātena. Praṇipāt means submission; and paripraśnena, then question; and sevayā, and service also. These three things are the basic principle of receiving knowledge. So submission means I must approach somebody who is actually in better position or higher position. Otherwise, what is the use of approaching? Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā. And sevā means service. You cannot challenge. You approach such person whose instruction you shall receive. You can inquire submissively, but you cannot challenge. That is not allowed in Vedic system. Samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12). Therefore before selecting a teacher, you must decide whether you can submit there. If you cannot submit there, don't approach, don't waste time. So that is the process. And Arjuna submitted to Arjuna, uh, Kṛṣṇa.
So how you can understand whether Kṛṣṇa or God is satisfied by discharging your particular type of duty? That is Kṛṣṇa is explaining Himself: mayy āsakta-manaḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ. You have to increase your attachment for Kṛṣṇa. Mayy āsakta. Āsakta means attachment. You should be attached to your business not for the business' sake but for the attachment of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is to be satisfied. Generally we do business for my satisfaction, for my family satisfaction, for government satisfaction, for income tax satisfaction and so many satisfaction. But when you try to satisfy Kṛṣṇa or increase your attachment for His satisfaction, then your business is perfect. Mayy āsakta-manaḥ pārtha, svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhi.. Everyone wants perfection; otherwise what is the use of jumping like cats and dogs? That is not meant for human being, unnecessarily jumping and dancing. You must dance for satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa. Then your life is... There is tendency for dancing, for chanting, for singing. They are holding ball dances, and musical instruments. The same thing we are propagating—chant and dance Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. This is satisfaction. This is satisfaction.
Guest (4): Who was Meher Baba?
Prabhupāda: Hmm? I do not know. (laughter) There are so many bogus Babas. I do not know. (laughter) What is the use of knowing Meher Baba? If I know Kṛṣṇa, that is sufficient. That's all. Why shall I go to know this and that? That's all right. So is there a question...? All right, what is that question?
Devotee (4): Many people say, "No one can become perfect." How can we help them understand that there is...?
Prabhupāda: Yes. No one is a perfect. Therefore you should take lessons from the perfect. That's all. Then you become perfect. Otherwise why there are instructions just like Christ said, "Thou shalt not kill"? That means "You are imperfect; therefore you are killing. Take my instruction. Don't do it. You become perfect." That's all. We are all imperfect. We have to take lesson from the perfect. Then we become perfect. Yes?
Nirantara: Prabhupāda, what pleases you the most?
Prabhupāda: If you love Kṛṣṇa.
Devotees: Jaya.
So Caitanya Mahāprabhu has therefore clearly said that this Māyāvādī, nirākāravādī, is more dangerous than the Śūnyavādī. Śūnyavādī, they publicly declare, "There is no God," just like modern population, that "There is no need of God." Asatyam aprathiṣṭhaṁ te jagad āhur anīśvaram (BG 16.8). That is also described in the Bhagavad-gītā. The atheist class, they say that "This world is asatya. There is no meaning." Asatyam jagad āhur anīśvaram (BG 16.8). "And there is no God." We can understand that they are atheist. (break)... Māyāvādī philosopher, they take the shelter of Vedic literature and indirectly, directly, they try to wipe out the existence of God. (break) The Caitanya Mahāprabhu therefore has said, māyāvādī-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa: (CC Madhya 6.169) "If you hear from a Māyāvādī, nirākāravādī, then you are doomed." You cannot understand about God at any time. (break) So our request is that if you at all want to understand what is God, don't go to the Māyāvādī or Śūnyavādi, but try to understand about God from God Himself. Sometimes they may say that "What is the use of understanding God? What is the necessity of understanding God?" No. That is not the right conclusion. Human life is meant for understanding God. (break)...God, you may say there is no God, but there is God. There is no doubt about it.
Departure Talks
For the Māyāvādī who wants to become one with the Supreme... You can become one. One means the same thing, a small portion of the water. But our philosophy is not to mix up with the water superficially but enter into the water and live there like fish, big, big fish. That is our philosophy. What is the use of becoming one with the water? Go within the water and live there like a whale fish, perpetually. That is our philosophy. So that is secure philosophy, because as soon as actually you become a big fish within the water, there is no question of evaporation. But if you live, remain superficially on the water, then you will be evaporated again and again thrown outside, then again come as river. So your coming and going, repetition of birth and death, will not stop. But one should become a big fish, there is no evaporation. These things are explained in the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu by Rūpa Gosvāmī. So don't be misled by this Māyāvāda philosophy, that you fall into the water. Tohe janame punaḥ tohe visarata (?). They say that "Enter into the Supreme." You can enter, but what is the benefit? You will be again evaporated. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32). Because living entity by nature is ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12), by nature they want pleasure, every one of us.
So your coming and going, repetition of birth and death, will not stop. But one should become a big fish, there is no evaporation. These things are explained in the Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu by Rūpa Gosvāmī. So don't be misled by this Māyāvāda philosophy, that you fall into the water. Tohe janame punaḥ tohe visarata (?). They say that "Enter into the Supreme." You can enter, but what is the benefit? You will be again evaporated. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32). Because living entity by nature is ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12), by nature they want pleasure, every one of us. Every one of us, we are struggling so hard. Why? To get some pleasure. Nobody is trying so hard to making suicide. Is anybody there in this material world who is working so hard for ultimately making suicide? No. Everyone is trying to become happy. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). Because he wants. That is his nature, sat-cit-ānanda: eternal life, full of knowledge and full of bliss. This is real life. So if we simply accept eternity like the Māyāvādīs, then what about the other two items? Or if we simply live in knowledge... Suppose theoretically I know so many things to prepare-rasagullā, sandeśa, halavā, kachorī—but if I do not practically taste what is halavā, what is kachorī, then what is the use of simply having knowledge? So the Māyāvādī philosophy like that, jñāna, simply knowledge. That knowledge is there in the Bhagavad-gītā in the beginning, the first lesson: dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam (BG 2.13). "Within the body there is the soul. That soul is eternal." Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Na jāyate na mriya... This is the first lesson, that "I am Brahman. I am spirit soul. I am eternal. I do not die even after the annihilation..." This is the first lesson. It doesn't require much time, that we have to devote our whole life to understand that "I am Brahman." It can be understood even by a child. It is not very difficult. But how to engage myself as Brahman, that requires education.
Philosophy Discussions
Śyāmasundara: For example, the idea of the bird flying on the limb and the fruit. Either the bird caused the fruit to fall, or it fell, but the cause is still there.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Either you accept this cause or that cause, that is a different thing, but cause must be there. So this example is given that they are fighting unnecessarily to find out the cause. But cause is there. Just like some foolish person enquired when the living entity became fallen. What is the use of this question? Simply take it is fallen.
Śyāmasundara: There is a cause.
Prabhupāda: There is a cause. Now, you may not find out the cause, just like here is a diseased man, and there is some cause. So instead of finding out the cause, you go on treating the disease. Get it cured. But cause must be there. Otherwise he is infected, why others are not infected? The cause must be there.
Śyāmasundara: So he says that the laws of physics are not inherent in nature, but they are modes of thought.
Prabhupāda: No. This is also nonsense. There is a law. All physical things which are going on, there is a law. Just like while the temperature is below zero, the water becomes solid. That is a physical law.
Śyāmasundara: But his impact upon the thinking of the world so completely changed the whole conception of...
Prabhupāda: That is now changing again. So what is the use of that, such change?
Śyāmasundara: Well, you have to investigate, because he is important for our...
Prabhupāda: No. That's all right. We will investigate; and a theory which changes, it will change, that's all. It is not a fact. The sun rising is a fact. It cannot change.
Śyāmasundara: Still, you say if there were high forms of, say Brahmā, in Brahmā's time or millions of years ago, there were also other high animals besides men?
Prabhupāda: All I say is that all kinds of different classes of forms were existing, since the creation.
Śyāmasundara: On this planet there were higher forms?
Prabhupāda: Why are you taking this planet? We are talking of the whole creation. In the creation everything is there.
Śyāmasundara: No. But why weren't there any tools left behind for us to find, remnants?
Prabhupāda: What?
Śyāmasundara: Why no remains of tools or other evidence of other men.
Prabhupāda: What is the use of tools? Tools are used for the carpenters, and we are not carpenters.
Śyāmasundara: But if there were high forms of men living...
Prabhupāda: Then he's (indistinct) with the carpenters, not the philosophers.
Śyāmasundara: ...they must have lived in cities.
Prabhupāda: My forefathers were philosophers. They did not require any tools.
Śyāmasundara: They required no houses?
Prabhupāda: No. Even they required, they called some carpenter and they did it.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. My point is that there...
Prabhupāda:Because there is no tools, therefore there is no civilization?
Śyāmasundara: But tools, not... Houses or anything that men have to use, there should be some remains left behind when their civilization...
Prabhupāda: What is remains? Remains means just like the coal, that is the remains.
Prabhupāda: This is, this worship and the concept of worship, if actually one believes or knows, so the real worship is that which pleases God. If you manufacture... Just like I want a glass of water, and if my servant gives me a glass of hot milk, is that worship? Worship means what I want, if you give me, then I am satisfied. But if I want a cold glass of water, you give me..., if you think, "No. Milk is better than water," so that, will that satisfy me? So these concocted ideas of worshiping will actually satisfy God, that is wrong theory, that one can worship God according to his own dictation. That means his God is fictitious. He has no idea of God. And he can concoct ideas. But actually if there is God, one should worship according to the dictation of God. But if he does not know what is God, what is the dictation of God, then he is a rascal. What is the use of his so-called worship? It may be to some extent a sentiment, but that is not worship. If you want to worship God, you must worship God according to His dictation. That is real worship. How he can manufacture the way of worship?
Hayagrīva: The prosecutor...
Prabhupāda: What will be the answer? If you want to worship God, you must worship according to the dictation of God. If you have no such dictation, if you have no idea of God, then how you can worship God? You can worship a ghost, according unto you. If freedom is given to your conception, then you can worship a dog instead of God, because you do not know what is God and what God wants you to do. So without the conception of God, real, how one can worship God by whimsical ideas?
Śyāmasundara: Does Kṛṣṇa know beforehand everything, before...?
Prabhupāda: No. How Kṛṣṇa can know? You can change your mind. So Kṛṣṇa says "Surrender unto Me." If you don't surrender, then what Kṛṣṇa can do? That much independence is there.
Śyāmasundara: So even God cannot predict?
Prabhupāda: What is the use of prediction? Prediction is so much, that he will be kicked, kicked, kicked, and some day he will come.
Devotee: But the independence...
Prabhupāda: Independence is there. Independence is always there. When he is being kicked, there is also independence.
Devotee: Then he is so many times falling down, again and again, eventually permanently he will come back.
Prabhupāda: No. There is no question of permanent. Because he has got independence, he can misuse his independence, he can fall down. That's why one man is released from the prison house, that does not mean permanently he... He can come back again.
Śyāmasundara: Since you know beforehand everything before (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: You can change your mind. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says (indistinct). That is explained in the Bhāgavatam... (break) ...progress, why do you talk of these things? What do you think, eh? That is explained in the Bhāgavatam: andhā yathāndair upanīyamānās. Andhā. One blind man is trying to lead another blind man. So what is the use of such leading? You must have eyes, then you can ask other hundreds of blind men, "Please come behind me, I shall get you across." But if you have no eyes, then why you are asking others, philosophizing?
Śyāmasundara: It seems like these two philosophers have two different viewpoints. The first one, Huxley thinks that man can take nature into his own hands and mold his own evolution.
Prabhupāda: That is nonsense.
Śyāmasundara: Whereas this philosopher thinks that we should just..., that the vital force is guiding everyone and is creating its own evolution, that we should just drift in the course of things and the vital force will determine history or will determine our future.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Vital force will determine. That is somewhat...
Śyāmasundara: Without our doing—without anything of our own doing.
Prabhupāda: No. Vital force must know how to make progress, how to do it. Then he'll be... If he does not know how to do it, how it will be possible? Can you do anything... Suppose you are learning some mechanical business, can you do it without direction? You have to learn. You must get a teacher. So, without teacher, that is not possible.
Prabhupāda: Cerebral mechanism, that is a machine. Just like this microphone is a machine. It helps speaking loudly. It has nothing..., machine has nothing to do with the voice, but it helps the voice louder so we can listen, so far the machine is concerned. Actually the voice is different. Therefore our Vedic śāstra is called voice, śruti. So if the śruti, the voice, vibration of this voice is proper, then the machine can help us to understand that. But if there is no voice, what is the use of the machine? Just like dead body: the same brain is there, what is the use? The same ear is there. So it is not the brain that helps; it is the voice, it is the instruction which helps. Therefore we take instruction of Kṛṣṇa. So that is the Kṛṣṇa's point. Kṛṣṇa says, yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati (BG 4.7). When people becomes rascal, without any God consciousness, and the so-called demonic leaders keep the society in darkness, dharmasya glānir bhavati, at that time, to stop these demons talking nonsense, and to raise the devotees who are interested, Kṛṣṇa comes. That is Kṛṣṇa's coming. Then He leaves behind Him instruction of Bhagavad-gītā so that His devotees can preach for the benefit of the society. So it is not the brain; it is the voice, the instruction, which is important. So a human being has got this nice machine and he can take. But if the leaders are blind, they do not know what is the use of this brain, then it is useless.
Hayagrīva: We feel, we feel isolation as individuals, and not only is there isolation as individuals but we feel isolated on this planet. Man cannot communicate with beings on other planets.
Prabhupāda: That is his imperfectness. What is the use of having communications with other planet? The other planets are also like these. They are individual persons. So what is the utility of communicating with the other planets? What is the utility? What does he mean by it?
Hayagrīva: Well, man has always had a desire-basically it's a desire for God—but a desire to communicate with something outside of this world, outside of this earth, something higher.
Prabhupāda: The higher principle is there, Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa. Why does he not communicate with Him? Then he will, that will make him perfect. What is the use of...? Just like that a tree, it has got many leaves, many branches. So if one leaf communicates with other leaf, that will not help him. But if water is poured on the root of the tree, then everyone will participate, sarva hano 'cyutejyā. So if we communicate with God, Kṛṣṇa, then automatically we understand other things. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati (Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.3). Simply by knowing Kṛṣṇa we can understand everything.
yāmasundara: So if I'm feeling happy that means I am proceeding...
Prabhupāda: You must feel, if it is happiness, you must feel happy. Just like eating is happiness. So if you actually eat, you must feel happiness. It is not that (indistinct). Eating, when you are hungry, eating is happiness. But if you are not feeling happiness then what is the use of eating? By eating if you are feeling happiness, then you are eating. Strength, you'll feel strength, "Yes, I was fatigued. Now eating I am getting strength." Satisfaction. These three things are to be there when you are eating. If there is no satisfaction, no strength, then what is the meaning of eating. There is no...
Śyāmasundara: Someone might raise the point, "Well, the man is hungry and he has no food, therefore in order to feel pleasure he must steal it and cause displeasure to someone else." But this Bentham says that there are four natural curves or preventions, preventative forces to keep people from egoistic over-indulgence. One is the physical consequences of over-indulgence. If I eat too much, I get sick. One is political, that I will be imprisoned if I transgress. I will be punished. One is moral, or popular opinion, the public will think badly of me if I over-indulge. And the fourth one is religious, that God will punish me if I am an evil-doer. These four preventions he says, keep us from over-indulging in pleasure.
Prabhupāda: But if there is some happiness, why there is no prevention. That is real happiness. There is no prevention, simply go on increasing.
Śyāmasundara: So it is a matter of degree which is more practical than something else. Sense gratification or communism or any other "ism," it's practiced (indistinct) effect, but that effect...
Prabhupāda: But if it has bad effect then what is the use of it? It must have good effect. Effect must be there, but if it is bad, that is not practical. The effect must be good and continuous.
Viśāla: But that good result is relative, depending upon who is deciding whether it is good. In other words, Lenin or Mao, they feel that the practical result of their philosophy is good.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, but now Mao disagrees with the practical utility of Russian philosophy. So where is the stability? And similarly, the Russians don't agree with the Chinese, so what is practical for China is not practical for the Russians. So which one we shall take?
Viśāla: That which is practical for both.
Prabhupāda: That means both of them are not practical. It will be proved in due course of time.
Śyāmasundara: He says that... This is a quote...
Prabhupāda: Just like in the śāstras it is stated that the human beings, they are being controlled by the modes of passion, so they love to work very hard. And that hard working, they think it is happiness. Actually, everyone is working hard day and night, and because he is getting some money in return, he is thinking that "I am becoming happier." In exchange of a little money he is accepting that hard working is very good. But śāstra says that this hard working for some sense gratification is being done by the hogs and dogs. They are also working hard, and getting some remuneration for food and sense enjoyment. So that business is there already. So does it mean that a human being also works so hard, as a hog, simply to get his food and sense gratification? Suppose a big builder is working hard and getting money. But what will be the result of his work? A little food and sense gratification. A beggar also, he's getting the little food and sense gratification. Then why he's happy working so hard? What is the use? That sense, it does not come to him. He thinks, "I am happy. I am happier than the beggar because I have got so much money, I have got such a big building." But what is in relation to you? You are eating the same four capatis and have your sex life with your wife, that's all. What is the better advantage you are getting than the hog and poor man? This is because he is in the modes of passion, he is thinking, "I am happier than him." This is called māyā, or illusion.
Śyāmasundara: He says that the object of inquiry or asking questions is belief; that because we want to believe something we often ask questions in order to find something to believe in. This is the nature of inquiry.
Prabhupāda: So that is the Vedānta-sūtra: to find out the ultimate cause of everything, the inquiries about the Absolute Truth. So these inquiries should be made to the person who knows; otherwise, what is the use of inquiring? That is the Vedic injunction. If you want to inquire about truth, then you must approach the bona fide spiritual master, guru. Guru means bona fide. But because there are so many pseudo gurus at the present moment, therefore we have to add this word "bona fide." Otherwise, guru means bona fide. One who is not bona fide, he cannot be guru. But people are misled by persons, pseudo or false gurus; therefore you have to add this word "bona fide." Otherwise there is no necessity of adding this word.
Śyāmasundara: He says that "All ideas must be tested in the laboratory of educational experience, where they can be challenged, their consequences evaluated, and where they can be continuously modified or reconstructed."
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because you see how Arjuna was perfectly good man, because he was Kṛṣṇa conscious. He was not willing to kill his enemy. He was hesitating, "What is the use of taking this kingdom?" This is Kṛṣṇa conscious. Because the other side, they were not thinking, but Arjuna, because he is Kṛṣṇa's devotee, he was considering, "What is the use of taking this kingdom, by killing (indistinct)?" In other words, nobody can be perfect without Kṛṣṇa consciousness. No philosopher, no scientist, no sociologist can be perfect without Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Śyāmasundara: But in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness philosophy the ideas are not to be re-evaluated. Aren't they absolute, the philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: Yes, the philosophy is absolute. Kṛṣṇa is absolute, so His consciousness is also absolute.
Prabhupāda: If you do not know, then why do you take the post of teacher? This is our proposition. If you do not know, sit down. It is better not to talk foolish. There is an English proverb: "It is better not to talk than to talk foolish." If you do not know, then don't talk. That is nice. What is the use of philosophically foolishly talking this and that and "maybe," "perhaps," like that, like that? What is the use of such knowledge?
Śyāmasundara: So he proposes these three stages of existence. The first one we talked about is the aesthetic stage of noncommitment—simply sense gratification and speculation. The second stage he says that a man makes a leap in commitment and begins to concern himself or involve himself with the world on an ethical level. And the third stage is the religious stage, or self-realization. But in the second stage he says that "The despair of life has lead one to the commitment to make choices, to commit himself to action and to enter into life's involvement and become ethically concerned; that suddenly he's turned within himself and in his passion and freedom and decision or subjectivity, then he begins to find himself."
Prabhupāda: What does he find?
Śyāmasundara: This may be likened to the people who do pious works, or the people who do good to others, who are morally committed to life, on that level. To feed others, clothe others, like that. They say that that is a step higher than simply sense gratification and speculation. He says that "This is a move in the right direction toward authentic selfhood, and eventually this way we will understand what I am. And because we are at last doing something, we are involved with life, then we are no more abstract. We are existing." Then we are existing. That someone who is doing all sense gratification and mental speculation, they are living abstract life, abstract life, external life. Simply waiting for the enjoyment of life and speculating what is the meaning of things, that is abstract life, and this being committed to action or decision-making is called existence. This is the first step toward real existence. So in this ethical stage he says that by the very act of making decisions that we become aware, that we become more and more aware, and that decision-making means awareness. And if we make choices about anything, that means that we are becoming aware.
Prabhupāda: What is the decision? Why people become moral—to feed the poor, like that, humanitarian? What is the decision, ultimate decision?
Śyāmasundara: He gives importance not so much to the facts of the...
Prabhupāda: Then if there is no fact, then what is the use of such philosophy? It is not based on fact.
Śyāmasundara: Yeah. He gives stress on how the decision is made.
Prabhupāda: When decision is made, then you should go farther. How the decision is made, that is our question. How is this made this decision, that you kill somebody and by killing somebody you protect somebody? How this decision is? That is our question. What is the answer?
Śyāmasundara: His answer is that you make the decision by inwardness, by turning inward...
Prabhupāda: And what is that inward mean? Why you are thinking that "I shall give protection to my brother by killing another gentleman"? Why you are thinking like this? What is the ethic? What is the value of ethic? That is our question.
Śyāmasundara: Well, perhaps his ethical man would not make that decision. Perhaps his ethical man would make the decision to protect the cow also. Because the idea is that through a passionate, feeling, awareness inside that one will come to the right decisions, that, that...
Prabhupāda: But he has no standard of right decision. What is the standard of right decision?
Śyāmasundara: His... It's... It's not so much... His motto is not so much "Know thyself" as to "Choose thyself." He's not so much saying that what you...
Prabhupāda: So how you can make your choice if you do not know yourself? You make your choice, "This is good, this is bad." So this choice is made when you know yourself. So this is my interpretation. I have interest in this; therefore it is good. That, so without knowing yourself, how you can make this choice? How you can make your decision?
Devotee: The mode of passion is truth.
Prabhupāda: Passion is truth, that's all right. But the passion means activities. So where your activity will end? What is the purpose of the activity? You start your car, but if you do not know where to go, then what is the use of starting your car? Simply spoiling your energy and spoiling the petrol.
Śyāmasundara: (laughs) Spoiling the petrol.
Prabhupāda: That's all. They do not know where to go. Is that very good proposition: "I do not know, that doesn't matter; therefore I start my car"?
Śyāmasundara: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: Never mind if I meet with accident. That's all right.
Śyāmasundara: That's their philosophy, that it is not what is done or the object of the doing; it is how it is done. That is what they say. Not what is done but how it is done.
Prabhupāda: That is another foolish thing. Dog's obstinacy that is called. Dog's obstinacy. This philosophy is dog's obstinacy.
Śyāmasundara: No. That's all. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...Caitanya Mahāprabhu, simply we think like this, with Christ. And (indistinct) another thing, against God. Simply (indistinct) say that "I am Christian. We are following Christ."
Śyāmasundara: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes. But doing all nonsense against the instruction of Christ. So what is the use of such philosopher, and (indistinct)? Act.
Devotee: Prabhupāda, before I was going to Vietnam, I did not want to go. I went to a Catholic priest and I brought this Bible, and I said to him, "It says here, that 'Thou shalt not kill,' and yet you are saying that I should go and kill." And he said, "Yes. You should go anyway." He just said, "You should go anyway." No reason, no explanation, just "You go anyway and kill."
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We saw a very interesting thing yesterday, myself and Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa. We were reading in the Time magazine that there is a big fight going on in Ireland between the Protestants and Catholics. Now the Pope and, I think, the Archbishop of Canterbury...
Prabhupāda: Yes, the Archbishop of Canterbury.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The two of them have been trying to work together to come out with a statement which will satisfy both Churches according to the scriptures. So Time magazine reports that after one and a half years of laborious work, they have finally come out with a 2,500-word statement, but the Pope said that this should not be taken as the Church teachings but should only be used for consideration. That means that after spending so much time, and still (indistinct). He said it should not be taken as a teaching, as a scripture.
Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of giving it?
Devotee: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: If people are the ultimate persons to consider, then what is the use of his giving this statement? He is not authority.
Śyāmasundara: That Archbishop of Canterbury, he is a good friend of Mr. (indistinct). They went to school together, and he says that in college they used to jog together. That was their favorite pastime. (laughter) Now he is archbishop.
Devotee: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: And Brahmānanda sent me that picture, Africa, five thousand priests in that hospital, on account of their drinking habits.
Devotee: Five thousand!
Prabhupāda: Five thousand. In America. (break) ...as soon as I cut with knife, the same blood is coming. Here also the same blood is coming. He is also crying, he is also crying. All these things are (indistinct). Then how do you say that this man has got soul and this animal has not got soul? Where is analogy? And points of similarities are there. Analogy means points of similarity. So the points of similarity, while killing either a man or animal, are all the same, then how are you bringing this analogy that he has got soul, he hasn't got soul? Where is his logic?
Śyāmasundara: That's what he sees in it, the irrational.
Prabhupāda: Hitler's plan, Nazism, in so many ways, māyā has broke it into pieces. The Britishers, they also found the British empire, and māyā broke it. Roman empire... So, this frustration. But we are so fooled that in spite of repeated frustration, we are still trying to do the same thing. That is explained in the Bhāgavata, punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed. Chewing the chewed. He has been frustrated in so many ways, in sexual life, divorce this wife, again another accept, another wife. So what is the another wife? The same thing, sex, but he is making he is (indistinct): "Now again another." That is very nicely experienced in your country. In a year, three times divorce, three times accepting. That is named carvita-carvaṇānām, chewing the chewed. He should have experienced that "I am changing, but what is the change? The same sex life. So what is the use of changing?" But he has no intelligence. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). His business has become like that.
Śyāmasundara: He says that because there is no end to our striving...
Prabhupāda: There is end, provided... We can end everything, all these miscalculations, provided he goes to the right person. But that he will not go. He will become self-made philosopher. He will not accept guru.
Śyāmasundara: So because of that, there is no measure for his suffering.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: You don't take... That means that analytical study of the leaf.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. But without any previous knowledge—as if I knew nothing about leaves before, but I begin to look at the leaf and it will be self-evident what that leaf is.
Prabhupāda: So you can talk any nonsense. (laughter) Then what is the use of going to school? There is no need of opening so many schools and colleges. You go on studying, you can know all knowledge and talk all kinds of nonsense. Is that perfect?
Śyāmasundara: No. He says that if a man has a clear intelligence that he will be able to understand the essence of that...
Prabhupāda: But why these schools are there? Every day we see, actually, from the most intelligent persons, scientist, he has to go to a school. Not that at home, by speculating and talking nonsense, they have become a scientist. They will never become.
Śyāmasundara: But if evidence from that leaf—that it is the color green, for instance...
Prabhupāda: Still, you have to learn how the color green comes in.
Śyāmasundara: Well, he calls that kind of knowledge—how the color green comes in—you must exclude that kind of consideration; only...
Prabhupāda: That I am saying. Then he doesn't require to ask anybody. He has to speculate himself and think any kind of way he likes. He wants (indistinct).
Śyāmasundara: His idea is that many of our present unconscious wishes and conflicts have their origin in infantile or childhood experiences.
Prabhupāda: You are going to be again (indistinct). Why you forget Kṛṣṇa? After this life, you will be put in another womb of mother, so that the same thing will again happen. You are not finishing your business, so therefore it is the duty of guru and father and mother to save him from that situation again. Pitā na sa syāt, gurur na sa syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. So that is the opportunity of this human life. They should know that I had such-and-such bad experience. (indistinct), I will also experience the same thing again at the time of death, horrible situation. Again after, again enter, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). You have to again take birth in the womb. The same situation is repeating. You may forget. That is another thing. Just like you had some surgical operation in your body. That was very painful. So even if you have forgotten, that does not guarantee that there will be no more (indistinct) and no more surgical operation. That is not (indistinct). It will be put again. What is the use of forgetting? Even if you do forget, what is the benefit of thereof?
Śyāmasundara: He says there is no benefit of forgetting, but it is a natural tendency.
Prabhupāda: That is natural, and everyone knows that's not a very (indistinct).
Śyāmasundara: So he says that the cure for many of our present conflicts is to try to recall these painful experiences and analyze them and try to correct them.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: He thinks more in terms from the very beginning of birth there is sex impulse.
Prabhupāda: That is admitted. We say that as soon as there is an embodied living being, he must have hunger, he must have sex impulse. (indistinct), we find in the animals these impulses are there, so why so much philosophy? They are already there. What is the use of philosophizing?
Śyāmasundara: He analyzes that besides the id, or these sex impulses, there is the ego, which is the moral self, which tries to adjust these impulses, these sexual impulses, and tries to...
Prabhupāda: That we have already discussed, that because just like that the sex impulse you are giving him some facility that "You have sex life with your married wife." This is real (indistinct). Not (indistinct) because I have sex impulse, I can (indistinct) anyone, never mind mother or sister, and have sexual intercourse. That is not very nice.
Śyāmasundara: No. He doesn't enjoin that. He is a scientist. He doesn't make any recommendations one way or the other. He is merely trying to analyze what is cause...
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) our solution is this: Your materialistic life is painful. That's a fact. This materialistic life is painful. (indistinct). As soon as you have this material body, then you must suffer these three kinds of miserable condition of life. So our whole program is to stop. Everyone is looking after happiness. We say that unless you stop your materialistic way of life, repeated birth and death, there is no question of happiness. So the whole Vedic civilization is based on this, how one can get out of this disease. This is a disease, the repetition of birth and death. We are trying to cure this disease. Then all other symptoms will automatically vanquish. If you are a diseased fellow, you are getting sometimes a headache, sometimes leg ache, sometimes some pain in the stomach. But if your disease is cured, then that there are no more symptoms. That is our position.
Prabhupāda: That is already stated, that the only happiness in this material world, maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukham. Ādi means the basic principle is maithuna, sexual intercourse. And now there are some maithuna-ādi. Or you can take it that one is very happy—just like one gentleman proposed to (indistinct), "Give me a son." But that is also maithuna-ādi, by sexual intercourse. He is thinking that "I will have a son and I will get him married; he will also begin maithuna-ādi—and a grandson." So the whole system, this materialistic way of life, just like Bhāgavata is saying, yan maithuna gṛhamedhi sukham. This is happiness. (indistinct). Suta means son and āpta means friend. (indistinct) wife, mother, sister, they are enjoying this life. (indistinct), that's in the desert, one drop of water. The desert requires an ocean of water, but in the whole desert if there is one drop of water, you can say, "Here is water." But what is the value of water? What is the value of this water? You can say, "Here is water." Similarly, this sexual pleasure society, there is some pleasure, but what is the value of that pleasure? That is compared with one drop in the desert. You are seeking after unlimited pleasure. (indistinct) You are seeking that pleasure. What this will pacify you? Therefore nobody is satisfied. He is having sex in different ways, placing the woman in different ways. Now these young girls are almost naked. They are attractive. But this is not (indistinct) how society is degrading. Now the woman population is greater everywhere. So how to solve? As soon as there is woman population, they say, "Where is a man?" The (indistinct) desire (is) that every woman, every girl is trying to attract a man. But where is the man? And the man will take advantage, that "Milk is available on the market. What is the use of keeping a cow?" So they will decline to keep a cow, because milk is so cheap. So this is social desertion. And the more the man will become attached to woman, the woman population will increase. It is psychological. The whole world is increasing woman population. So therefore there is desire, especially in (indistinct).
Devotee: How is that?
Prabhupāda: The same principle—if milk is available in the market, what is the use of keeping a cow?
Devotee: How does that result in more women?
Prabhupāda: When you have more sex, then you have no power to beget a male child. When the man is less powerful, a girl is born. When the man is powerful, a boy is born. That is Vedic system. In our country, in (indistinct), there are fewer woman because there the men are very stout and strong. When there is discharge, if the man's discharge is larger, then there is a male child; if the woman's discharge is larger, then there is a female child. So when women will be very easily available, the men will be weak. So what will he beget? He will beget female child, because he has lost his power. Sometimes he becomes impotent. So many desertions. If you don't restrict sex life, there will be so many desertions. And that is happening-impotency, no marriage, woman population more. But they did not know how things are happening, how human psychology can be controlled. The perfect system is the Vedic system.
Śyāmasundara: One of Jung's favorite techniques for improving a person's personality is to force that person to bring up the demonic force in himself and treat it as another person. If the demon within me is not really me, it's another personality which causes...
Prabhupāda: That is not very important, how one becomes affected by some disease. But when the disease is there, the treatment must be there. That is natural. Instead of tracing out the history, what is the use? That the disease is there, make treatment and be cured, that's all.
Śyāmasundara: But this demon that haunts me, that is another personality besides my real personality.
Prabhupāda: That is not a... Personality, I am. Just like delirium, the same personality, but he's talking nonsense in delirium. If you remove the delirium condition, then he becomes again the original person. Delirium is not person.
Śyāmasundara: Oh, I see.
Indian man: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: (indistinct)
Śyāmasundara: When we say that a person is ghostly haunted, does that mean there is another personality which is inhabiting his...
Prabhupāda: Influencing.
Śyāmasundara: Influencing.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: Suppose someone is attacking you, ready to kill you. You have the power to choose whether to be a hero and defend or whether to run.
Prabhupāda: It is not hero to defend. It is a natural action. Even a dog can become hero when he is attacked by somebody. Even an ant can become hero. One ant is walking on the table, so if you check his way, he also becomes hero. So there is no use of becoming hero like that. That heroism and cowardice are the same. It is simply mental concoction. Because after, all you are under the control of somebody. He can do as he likes with you. So what is the use of your becoming hero or coward?
Śyāmasundara: Supposing someone else is in danger and you go and rescue them. Isn't that being a hero? Or you decide not to and you go away.
Prabhupāda: But you cannot rescue. You rescue... Just like one man is drowning, and you become hero and jump over the water and take out his shirt and coat, and you come on the shore that "I've saved him." (laughter) This is not saving him. Similarly, you have no eyes to see whom to save. You are simply seeing the dress. So saving the dress, that is not heroism, neither it is protection.
Śyāmasundara: So the real heroes are the devotees, who save actually.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: It always appears that the hero is protected, that nothing can stop him. He is so heroic nothing can stop him.
Prabhupāda: That heroism is just like insect heroism. There is blazing fire, and all kinds of ants and insects are falling in. So what is the use of such heroism? He has no sound knowledge. He is talking speculation. (break)
(next meeting)
Śyāmasundara: Yesterday we were discussing Jean-Paul Sartre. His point was that man finds himself responsible for his own actions—not only individually, but he finds that the world is in his own choosing so that he has a social responsibility as well.
Prabhupāda: As soon as we speak of responsibility, there is no question of chance. We cannot say sometimes by chance, sometimes by responsi... Where is the question of chance, if there is responsibility?
Śyāmasundara: He says that by making decisions and choosing this or that, that one becomes responsible for his actions. But ultimately it doesn't really matter what he chooses. The choosing is the important thing.
Prabhupāda: That is whimsical. And still he is responsible.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. Whatever I choose, I must be responsible for it. But it doesn't matter so much what...
Prabhupāda: But if the beginning is irresponsibility, then where is the question of responsibility? This is nonsense philosophy. If the beginning is irresponsibility... Just like there is a story, some thieves stolen some gold, and there were many, four, five thieves, so they were dividing the stolen property, and one them said, "Now let us divide it honestly." (laughter) The whole thing is stolen property, and they are speaking of honesty. Just like you Americans, you came from Europe and other countries, and you have stolen the property. Now you make immigration, "You cannot come, you cannot come." It is like this philosophy. The whole thing is stolen property, and they are talking of honesty; they are citing scripture. So where is the responsibility, if the beginning is irresponsibility, chance?
Śyāmasundara: He says that this condition of bad faith must be replaced by solid choosing and faith in our choosing. For instance, if one chooses a certain path of action, that he must have faith that by carrying out this action valiantly, heroically, that he will be doing the right thing.
Prabhupāda: But if his decision is wrong, then what is the use of such heroism?
Śyāmasundara: He says there's no such scale of right and wrong. There is no absolute right and wrong, that everything depends upon how...
Prabhupāda: Then where is the question of responsibility if there is no right and wrong?
Śyāmasundara: Whatever I do, I must do it...
Prabhupāda: Whimsically. Whimsically. Whatever you do, you do it whimsically. Does he mean to say like that?
Śyāmasundara: No. Whatever you do, you do courageously.
Prabhupāda: Courageously... Just like the example I gave, the insect goes very courageously into the fire. Is that a very nice decision, to go forward courageously into the fire? He'll go courageously.
Śyāmasundara: Just like when we were discussing Hegel, Hegel's belief was everything was synthetic, that it..., for every thesis there was an antithesis, and each combining made a synthesis, so that all things were related and all things combined together were the world. But his idea is the opposite—that everything is separated, everything is individual.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Separated, but there is sympathy. It is not separated abrupt. There is sympathy. Just like here, all our students, they are individual, separately, but there is (indistinct) sympathy, that every one of you are learning Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is sympathy. Even though you are all separated, you have got your individual opinions, still there is a sympathy in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise what is the use of this assembly unless there is sympathy? (aside:) What you say, Dr. Rao?
Dr. Rao: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: What your science says?
Dr. Rao: Science says that matter is composed of atoms; atoms, in turn, they are composed of the smaller particles like electrons, protons, neutrons and so on. And now scientists, they have found out that these smaller particles, they are also composed of still smaller particles. So there is no end to it. I mean...
Prabhupāda: Then what about the bigger? So what is smaller, but then what about the bigger? (laughter)
Prabhupāda: There is not the question of antagonism. If we actually know who is God and what He desires... I give always this example: if we know the government and the government laws, then there is no antagonism. The government says that "Keep to the right," so there is no question of antagonism; anyone must keep to the right. So there is no question of antagonism. But the antagonism is there when the so-called religious system does not know what is God and what is actually the desire of God. Then there cannot be any antagonism. That perfectness of understanding God and God's regulation or order is clearly described in the Bhagavad-gītā. We are therefore advocating Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that "Here is God and here is God's instructions." So if we deliver it, and the proposal in the Bhagavad-gītā, they are all practical. Just like God says that you divide the society in four division—not only worker, but also the good brain, good administrator, and good producer of food. That is the actually the divisions of the society. So without division of the society, if you simply keep worker, who will give them instruction to work? These are all imperfect ideas. But the perfect ideas are given in the Bhagavad-gītā. If we follow that, then the human society, humanity will be in perfect order. So either you call it religion or a system to..., following which one can become peaceful. Religion means, to understand God means, a system. A system is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā in three principles. God says that He is the proprietor of everything, sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). So we see this planet, and there is different proprietors-individual proprietor of the land or the state proprietor, the king. So there is a proprietor of this earth, either you divide it nationally or you take it wholly. So similarly there are many, many millions of others, so they are called sarva-loka. So there must be a proprietor. So if we know who is that proprietor and how He is working... That is also stated, that the supreme proprietor is the supreme friend of everyone. So if we find out the supreme proprietor, supreme friend, and if we understand the proprietor is the enjoyer of everything, that is real religion. Then peace will prevail. But if we do not know who is the proprietor, what is His function, what is our relationship with Him, that we create antagonism. Somebody will say, "My religion is better," somebody will say, "My religion is better." But we most of all first, first of all know what is religion. Religion, we say, that the order given by the supreme proprietor and to live according to, according to that order, that is religion. If you do not know what is religion, what is the use of criticizing religion or creating antagonism?
Prabhupāda: That I am coming to. Suppose... Just like a living man and a dead man. So what is the scientific statement about this dead man? What do they say?
Śyāmasundara: Well, that he's just a lump of chemicals.
Prabhupāda: All right. Then if you are scientist, then bring that chemical and fulfill it. That is experiment. If that experiment is not possible, then what is the use of your scientific statement, "It is loss of chemicals"?
Śyāmasundara: The idea is that the theories are not practical unless they are tested socially, unless there is social benefit.
Prabhupāda: It is not the question of social. You say that this body is dead because some chemicals are wanting. So you should make experiment that such chemicals be replaced and the body may come out again in life. Then your scientific statement is... Otherwise, it is most unscientific. So how to test the scientist? His theory is not practical. You say that the dead man means some chemical wanting. So you put that chemical. Just like when a motorcar is stopped, so the engineer comes, a mechanic comes, he says, "This part is broken. It should be replaced." All right, replace it and car moves. But you say that "This part is wanting; therefore this man is dead." Now you replace that part. Then it will be scientific because it will be proved by experiment.
Prabhupāda: That is going on. It is not a new thing, that in order to establish peace you kill somebody.
Śyāmasundara: If there's any counter-revolutionaries, you prosecute or repress them.
Prabhupāda: That is going on. That is not a new thing. That is going on in the animal kingdom. What is the use of your philosophy? Without having philosophy, this is going on in the animal kingdom. So what is the use of your philosophy? By philosophy, you give something which will not create any conflict. But by conflict, by crushing, by subduing, if you want to establish your peace, then what is the value of this peace?
Śyāmasundara: He says we also have to prevent foreign intervention.
Prabhupāda: If your theory is perfect, why there should be foreign intervention?
Revatīnandana: How foreign intervention will be dangerous to you if you are perfect?
Śyāmasundara: Well, because the capitalists are...
Prabhupāda: That is bias. Your people also become capitalist. Why Kruschev was driven away? Because he was becoming... So because you are all imperfect, you think in a different way, but ultimately you will find that it is useless. Childish. That's all.
Prabhupāda: That is nice. That immortal stage is described in the Bhāgavatam, or the Bhagavad-gītā. Yad gatvā na nivartante (BG 15.6). Progress means you go, go. Gamati iti gatiḥ, or progress. You go, go, go. So when you come to this śloka... (?) Therefore in the Vedas it is said, oṁ tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ. Sūrayaḥ, means those who are learned, those who are advanced in knowledge. They are called sūrayaḥ. So they are always looking forward to the lotus feet of Viṣṇu. Just like modern scientists are going, trying to go to the moon planet, so when they start, they are looking forward (to) the moon planet. Similarly, those who are learned, they are simply looking forward to the lotus feet of Viṣṇu: "When I shall reach there?" That goal is there. They are not missing the goal. Oṁ tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paśyanti sūrayaḥ. This is the Ṛg Veda mantra. They know their goal. But they have to reach still, yet to go there. Just like our Kṛṣṇa conscious people, they know what is the goal, Kṛṣṇa, Goloka Vṛndāvana. So this is the attempt, how to reach there, how to reach there. That's all. We are not blind, but these people are blind. They do not know what is the goal. By philosophizing, they simply mislead. That is explained in the Bhāgavata: andhā, a blind man is trying to lead other blind men. If you do not know, why you are philosophizing? Unless you have got the ideal goal for evolutionary progress, why you talk of these things? What do you think? Huh? So that is explained in the Bhāgavata. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās (SB 7.5.31). Andhā. One blind man is trying to lead another blind man. So what is the use of such leading? You must have eyes; then you can ask other hundreds of blind men, "Please come behind me. I shall get you across." But if you have no eyes, then why you are asking others? Philosophizing.
Hayagrīva: "Know for action you are here. Your action and your action alone determines your worth."
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, that we are meant for rendering service to Kṛṣṇa. So we do it daily from morning, four o'clock, to night, ten o'clock, they are always engaged to give service to Kṛṣṇa. So this is practical. If you simply sit down, speculate on God and smoke cigarette, then what is the use of such speculation? Here is practical life.
Hayagrīva: Well in this sense Fichte is closer to Kṛṣṇa consciousness than most impersonalists, because most impersonalist advocate inaction and meditation on the void, but, uh...
Prabhupāda: No, impersonalist...
Hayagrīva: ...but how can you have action without action directed toward a person or toward...?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like here in India, impersonalist, they have got also action. Just like the Māyāvādīs, they have also the same principle. The Śaṅkarācārya is teaching vairāgya, "Sit down under the tree, take thrice bath," so many vairāgya instruction. Rather, their instruction are more difficult than Vaiṣṇava. So vaivāgya-vidyā's teaching. Ours is also, Caitanya Mahāprabhu taught by His personal example. There is no question of inaction, sitting idly and gossiping about God imagination. Even an impersonalist or personalist, they are fully engaged. Just like the impersonalist in India, they are reading Vedānta-sūtra, they are trying to understand. They are not idle.
Prabhupāda: Foundation is lost, and what is the use of big building? Any, anywhere you go, even the Christians, they have no faith in the words of Christ. That I point out every time, that Christ says, "Thou shalt not kill," and their only business is killing. Where is faith? The Ten Commandments, that is Christ's word. Who has faith in these Ten Commandments? Then where is Christian? This is going on.
Hayagrīva: For Fichte, faith is innate in all men. He says, "So has it been with all men who have ever seen the light of the world. Without being conscious of it, they apprehend all the reality which has an existence for them through faith alone."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: "This faith forces itself on them simultaneously with their existence."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: "It is born with them. How could it be otherwise?"
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore we should have faith by experience that everything has got some proprietor, so why not the whole cosmic manifestation has proprietor? This is faith. You may not have seen the, who is the proprietor, but it is a question of faith. Everything I see has got a proprietor or owner, so who is the owner of this whole cosmic manifestation? This depends on faith. You may not have seen it. One says, "Who is that God? I don't see any proprietor." Then wherefrom it comes? "Ah, by accident." Is that any explanation? That is faith, that as everything has got some proprietor or some manufacturer, so why not this whole cosmic manifestation a proprietor? But you cannot say that "I am proprietor." There is some proprietor. That is faith. Just like we go, strolling in the morning, by the path. The (indistinct) park is part of high government. You know it is the property of the government. That just three yards after there is sea, now who is the proprietor of this sea? If this land is..., proprietor is the high government, now who is the proprietor of the water? There must be somebody. I may not know. That is faith. It is common sense. If the land is the property of somebody, so whose property is the sea? But there must be somebody. That is faith. Common sense. But they have no common sense even.
Hayagrīva: It tarnishes in time. It doesn't remain.
Prabhupāda: One king, by the grace of Lord Śiva, he got information in the Himalaya some spot of gold, so he hugely manufactured gold utensils. And the yajña, everything is gold, and the brāhmaṇas are given gold plates and gold. And they, in those days brāhmaṇas are not greedy, so they thought, "Who carries this weight? Throw it. It is bothersome." The king thought that "I am giving a very valuable, contributing charity," but they thought that "What is this utensils? I have to carry this. Throw it." So they are stacked up. So when Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira finished his whole treasury on account of the war and he wanted to perform yajña, he asked Arjuna, "You bring some money somewhere." So Arjuna was little perplexed. Kṛṣṇa gave him this information: "You go there. There is stack of gold utensils you can bring." So when he brought it, his name was Dhanañjaya, "conquering over wealth." There are so many gold peaks, gold mines. Who cares for that? Those who are materialistic person, they will give some man, and those who are Kṛṣṇa conscious, they will see, "What I have to do with all gold? I require some money for making propagation. Otherwise what is the use of stacking gold? There is no use."
Hayagrīva: But at the same time the soul pervades the entire body.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tatam. That portion which is spread all over the body, that is immortal. So this is the illumination or the shining of the soul. That the sun is situated localized in a particular place, that we can see everyday, but his illumination is distributed all over the universe. Similarly, although the soul is situated within the heart, his illumination is spread all over the body. So that is consciousness. So as soon as the soul is out from the heart, which is known as heart failure, when he leaves the heart, then what is the use of this heart? It becomes a lump of matter. Immediately consciousness is absent from the whole body. So it is upon the leaving of the soul this body there is no more consciousness. This is reasoning. Why a second before there was consciousness and after there is no consciousness? If you chopped up the body there will be no protest, there will be no feeling of pain, that "What is that?" This is reasoning, that something is missing. That soul has gone out; therefore the consciousness in the body is absent. That soul is immortal; the consciousness is also immortal. Now the consciousness, by the influence of illusory energy, is engaged in so many material things—consciousness of society, consciousness of nationality, consciousness of this, that, so many. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is educating movement, how the consciousness can be purified to remain only Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then his life is successful.
Prabhupāda: They, they will worship any nonsense, but here it is God consciousness. God has said that "I am this," so "I am...," I will worship. That is God, God consciousness. God has said. He has complete faith in God. Just like praṇavaḥ sarva-vedeṣu: "Of Vedic knowledge I am the oṁkāra." Therefore they follow: oṁ tad viṣṇu paramaṁ para..., every mantra is followed by. How he has known oṁkāra is God? That God has said: praṇavaḥ sarva-vedeṣu. So God is giving instruction how He should be realized. So they are following that. They are realized; they realize actually. And what is the use of speculating? He will never understand God because he is speculating with his limited knowledge. God is unlimited.
Hayagrīva: So although God is all animals and all plants...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is...
Hayagrīva: Although God is everything, we concentrate on these particular...
Prabhupāda: No. That is especially prohibited. Mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni: (BG 9.4) "Everything is in Me, but I am not there." Just like the body of a dog. The body is on the soul; the platform is the soul. Otherwise there is no meaning of the body. So the body of the dog is depending on the soul of the body. But that does not mean the dog's body is God. Nāhaṁ teṣu avasthitaḥ. Find out this verse, mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni nāhaṁ teṣu avasthitaḥ. They are taking just as Vivekananda, they, the body of a daridra, poor man, is resting on God, Nārāyaṇa...
Hayagrīva: Yes.
Purports to Songs
Caitanya Mahāprabhu did not teach anything else than what was taught by Kṛṣṇa. Therefore, Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya said, vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yogam śikṣārtham, purāṇah puruṣaḥ. That Supreme Personality of Godhead... Vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yogaṁ śikṣārtham ekaḥ purāṇaḥ puruṣaḥ (CC Madhya 6.254), śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-śarīra-dhārī: "Now You have assumed the form of Śrī Kṛṣṇa-caitanya, but You are Kṛṣṇa." That is also..., Rūpa Gosvāmī said. We have to follow the mahājanas, great personality, authorities. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). We cannot manufacture a way of life. We have to follow the footprints of mahājana, great personalities. That is the way. Here, at the present moment, everyone is speculating. What is the use of speculation? You are imperfect. Your senses are imperfect. Whatever you establish, because you have established by imperfect senses, they are all imperfect. Therefore, that suffering, there is no solution. So speculative method will not help us. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching is It is not as He had manufactured something. He is also following. He quoted one verse from the prayers of Lord Brahmā.
| Page Title: | What is the use (Lectures, Other) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 02 of Mar, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=109, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 109 |