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Western countries (Conversations 1976 - 1977)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: These things are not available in the Western countries. They do not know all these.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't think that there has ever been a personality who has ever given such a great gift to the Western world as yourself, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes, actually that is the fact, but let them appreciate, that's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gradually I think they all will. Some are now...

Prabhupāda: No, they are intelligent. First...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The thing is, it seems to me, that we are flooding so many books that they must become Kṛṣṇa conscious.

Prabhupāda: (laughing) Yes, they have no alternative than to read these books.

Morning Walk -- January 4, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: We have to follow Caitanya Mahāprabhu or you? Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). So we have to follow Caitanya Mahāprabhu. What is this building?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is a tuberculosis hospital.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Devotee (2): Prabhupāda, they said that if Caitanya Mahāprabhu wanted Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the Western countries, why didn't He go there Himself? That's what they told us.

Prabhupāda: So He left the credit for me. (laughter)

Devotees: Jaya! Haribol!

Prabhupāda: He loves His devotee more than Himself.

Harikesa: Why didn't Kṛṣṇa kill everybody at the Battle of Kurukṣetra?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walks -- January 22-23, 1976, Mayapura:

Jayapatākā: He also inherits the debt.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is India's law. You cannot simply inherit father's property and no debt. You inherit father's debt also. So a father dies debted, indebtor—he is supposed to be enemy because the son has to pay. Ṛṇa-kartā pitā śatrur mātā śatrur dvicaraṇi.(?)And mother, if she marries for the second time in spite of presence of children, she is enemy. And in Western countries it is very common affair.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Divorce and remarry.

Prabhupāda: All enemies. Mother enemy, father enemy. And then? Ṛṇa-kartā pitā śatrur mātā śatrur dvicaraṇi, rūpavatī bhāryā śatruḥ. And if the wife is very beautiful, she is also enemy. And putraḥ śatrur apaṇḍitaḥ. And the son, if he's a rascal, he is enemy. That's all. This is family enemies. In the family nobody expects enemy, but Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says that these are enemies in the family. Ṛṇa-kartā pitā śatrur mātā śatrur dvicaraṇi, rūpavatī bhāryā śatruḥ. Now everyone is hankering after very beautiful wife, and Cāṇakya Paṇḍita said, "Then you are bringing one enemy." Just see what is the type of civilization. Because if you become too much attached to wife, then you'll never be able to go out of home and take sannyāsa.

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1976, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: They openly advertise that "If you do transcendental meditation, then you can do your business better, you can have better sex life."

Prabhupāda: And that's all. So you can do your sense gratification process, yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi tuccham, what is condemned by Prahlāda Mahārāja, that "This kind of happiness is most abominable and insignificant." Tuccham. Tuccham means very insignificant. Kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham. It is just like itching between the two hand, and after-result is misery. That's all. Iva duḥkha-duḥkham. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ (SB 7.9.45). They know it, that after this enjoyment of itching sensation there will be so much trouble. But neha tṛpyanti: they are not satisfied. Again and again. Bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. Begetting one child... Just see. It is going on. (children in background) No shame. That is animal. No shame. In Western countries they are learning... I have seen. In Los Angeles beach they are having sex open. Just like these birds or beasts. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. They are trying to make birth control. Why? Bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. That illicit or legal sex, the after-result is very miserable.

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1976, Mayapura:

Jayapatākā: It seems that as a country, India's got the best chances for becoming fully Kṛṣṇa conscious again.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everywhere chance. Kṛṣṇa does not say for India.

Jayapatākā: But first.

Prabhupāda: No. That is not... You are making better progress, Western countries. Kṛṣṇa is not limited anywhere. But in India they have got the facilities. But they are becoming rascals, so they are not taking the facility. The facility is there. That is everywhere, especially in India. You see everywhere, every day, the sunrise, so beautiful. In Western country, some places, sometimes. But here you'll find every day. That is the facility. This is Gāyatrī mantra. Oṁ bhūr bhuvaḥ svaḥ tat savitur vareṇyaṁ bhargo devasya dhīmahi. This facility is in here. You get sufficient sunlight, and in sunlight you keep very healthy and happy. That facility is here.

Bhavānanda: Also, Śrīla Prabhupāda, last night you were saying, "The sun is moving." We can see the sun has just come up and is moving across the sky. So what do they base their statement that the sun is stationary? They have no basis in fact.

Prabhupāda: Therefore rascals. They see one thing and speak another. That is rascal. Yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇāṁ rājā samasta... Huh? Yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā sakala-grahāṇāṁ rājā samasta-sura-mūrtir aśeṣa-tejāḥ. Aśeṣa-tejāḥ. The... aśeṣa-tejāḥ, unlimited temperature and light. They are studied. This is aśeṣa-tejāḥ. If they have studied the quality of the sun, how they can say something wrong about the movements? That is also right. Yasyājñayā bhramati saṁbhṛta-kāla-cakro govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. This is statement. Bhramati. It is never discussed, sthira. Fixed up means sthira. Bhramati saṁbhṛta-kāla-cakraḥ. And that is also... That movement is also within the time limit fixed up by Kṛṣṇa: "Morning, half past six, you get up." "Yes." You cannot stop it. Kṛṣṇa's ājñā. It is order of Kṛṣṇa. You stop it, you scientists. You make it conveniently. Not half past six, make it eight. Can you do this? You rascal, you are claiming scientist. Yasyājñayā. It is only by His order you can... You ask him to rise from this side. Why from this side? Is there any scientist can change? Then why they are claiming that there is no God? Huh? What is the answer? Hm? Yasyājñayā. There is some arrangement. What is their answer? Hm? Jagadīśa Prabhu? What is the answer?

Morning Walk -- February 9, 1976, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He rejected that.

Prabhupāda: Not rejected. "Yes, it is not very important." Eho bāhya: "This is external." Āge kaha āra: "If you know something more." So the varṇāśrama-dharma is a good help undoubtedly, but it is not important for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise how could I start this movement in the Western country? There was no varṇāśrama-dharma. But that did not hamper my movement. Now people are surprised: "How these people have become such great devotees." So it was not based on varṇāśrama-dharma, no, because the whole movement is spiritual. It starts from the spiritual platform, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). Samāśritā ye pada-pallava-plavaṁ mahat-padaṁ puṇya-yaśo murāreḥ, bhavāmbudhir vatsa-padaṁ param. Now just like here is a gap. So you can go by the bridge, and if you can jump over, that is also going. That is also going. So to become Kṛṣṇa conscious means to jump over to the spiritual platform immediately. And this varṇāśrama-dharma, sannyāsa, varṇa-tyāga, karma-tyāga, these are different steps only. But if you become Kṛṣṇa conscious seriously, then you jump over all these steps; you go immediately. That lift and the staircase. By staircase you go step by step. By lift you can go immediately, faster.

Morning Walk -- February 26, 1976, Mayapura:

Hṛdayānanda: So he's frustrated.

Prabhupāda: Frustrated? Everyone. Whether young or not, everyone is frustrated. He says that the desire in old man... It is expected because he has gone through the gṛhastha life. Gṛhastha life is a concession for sex life. That's all. It is not needed. But those who are unable to avoid it—"All right, have for some time. Then become sannyāsī." This is the process. It is not needed. So in old age, after going through these stages, brahmacārī is learning how to stop this sex life, and then, if one is still unable—"All right, take concession for twenty-five years. Then give up this habit. Then take sannyāsa." So that is the process, one who has gone through the stages, expected that he has no more... āra nārī bapa (?) "I have done..." But generally, those who are not trained up, their desire is not diminished. They have got the... That you see in your country, Western country. Seventy-five, eighty years old, they are going to the nightclub.

Morning Walk -- March 13, 1976, Mayapur:

Yaśodānandana: I think maybe that along with that commentary from the professor from the University of Mexico to send to Mrs. Indira Gandhi, if all of these quotations are sent, she will understand that you are being appreciated by everyone.

Prabhupāda: No, you can send all the quotations, not only one. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...very enlivening, encouraging, very good. And especially from the Western countries. All classes of academic leaders. It is very good.

Madhudviṣa: I think they should be displayed in all our temples all over the world.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, oh, yes. Oh, yes.

Madhudviṣa: Anybody who comes, they will see how authorized your books are.

Rāmeśvara: That's our idea, that we can mass produce these, and any temple can order the quotes from any school of their choice.

Rādhāvallabha: We can make an announcement to temple presidents...

Rāmeśvara: Every temple can have a room for receiving guests with all the prominent quotes on the wall. (sound of approaching kīrtana party)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All they have to do is hear the party. (?)

Devotee (3): Hawaii.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Come on.

Devotee (3): Jaya.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is wanted. Chinese Communist philosophy, does anybody know? What is that? What philosophy? They have got some philosophy.

Hṛdayānanda: They're emphasizing industrial development. Everyone, the entire country, is mobilized for developing industry, economic benefits, so everyone can enjoy nice material life under...

Prabhupāda: And that is the philosophy of the Western countries.

Hṛdayānanda: Yes.

Siddha-svarūpa: Actually there is.... There is two factions in the Chinese schools now. One is saying to.... They're both materialistically based, but one is trying to stay on a position of self-sufficiency economically and not take from other countries or even trade, and the other school is to industrialize. And they're always fighting with their...

Prabhupāda: Oh, there are two schools?

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is a fact.

Siddha-svarūpa: In their philosophy, in their basic philosophy of life, the Chinese are very conservative, and they're called Puritan. They're described by the Western countries as the most Puritan country in the world.

Prabhupāda: So I think this philosophy, no illicit sex, will be very much...

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. They'll very much appreciate that.

Prabhupāda: And if you explain scientifically as you are explaining, that "This will spoil the brain, you cannot take nice things, so you must observe these rules..."

Siddha-svarūpa: Part of their culture is basically.... It's deeply steeped in what's called Taoism, and it's.... An important part of that is retaining the semen for mental power. (break)

Prabhupāda: So give them attention, yes, even at the..., as far as possible. Jaya.

Morning Walk -- March 17, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Within that temple, there will be the tree of planetary system, electric bulb, and they'll move round. And upon that, sun will run. That requires electrical mechanism. (break) ...all side, other, different planets, Vaikuṇṭha-loka.... There will be escalator to go.

Yaśodānandana: I think in some of the Western countries they have these elevators with brass windows all around, so that one can, even though he's going up, he still sees all around. It would be very fascinating for these people.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What to speak of escalators?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What to speak of escalators?

Yaśodānandana: And that light system.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: People will pay just to get on that escalator every day. (laughter)

Pañca-draviḍa: In Los Angeles they have installed a speed walk at the airport, an escalator that you can walk on.

Prabhupāda: So you are not going to Calcutta? Calcutta?

Jayapatākā: I was going to go in a day or two.

Prabhupāda: So there is no news? (break) Of course, if there is devotee. Otherwise not.

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Yes, because we are supplying real gold. We are giving real gold. We are not supplying imitation gold. That is the credit. If you supply imitation thing, it may go for some time, but it will not endure. So many swamis and yogis go there, but just these.... Ask these American boys. They don't care for them.

Reporter (5): But even Mahesh Yogi has a considerable following in America and a lot of Western countries.

Prabhupāda: No solidified.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Amongst housewives.

Hṛdayānanda: No. Now it is going down, and the followers, they have..., they will not follow any regulative principles. They will not surrender. Simply.... They have no actual disciples who are following principles.

Devotee: Are we going to compare because of the larger following? Do you compare the relative and the unrelative? This is the...

Reporter (5): I didn't meant to compare Swamiji's teachings with that of Mahesh Yogi's, but I...

Prabhupāda: No, how many Mahesh Yogi has brought, disciples like this? Practical, come, come, practical point. Have you seen in India Mahesh Yogi's disciples like...?

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Hm, (indistinct) are here. Why is it? Some wood. (break) ...grow foodgrains, simple living.

Devotee (1): The house is there, under the trees.(?)

Prabhupāda: Yes. (aside:) You have got this card.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: In the Western countries they would call this primitive.

Prabhupāda: They do not know what is civilization, that is there. The difficulty is they have no education about human civilization. Bahir-artha-māninā. They are simply captivated by the external energy, bodily conception of life. They do not know what is the aim of life. This is Western civilization. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). This is not Western, this is the demonic civilization. They do not know what is the aim of life. Our..., the material atmosphere, they're not happy, they're failing always, missing the real point.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The people that live in the cities think that the farmers work so hard.

Prabhupāda: And these rascals rise early in the morning and start their car to go to the office, five hours coming and going, and eight hours working there...

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Mm?

Lokanātha: As Kali-yuga advances, they're mentioning one time, there will be durbhikṣā, means not even bhikṣā will be given to sādhus.

Prabhupāda: Yes, not even bhikṣā will be available. I don't think bhikṣā is available in Western countries, eh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.

Pañcadraviḍa: Bhikṣā? Meaning begging for food? No, they will arrest you. (Prabhupāda chuckles)

Prabhupāda: Arrest.

Pañcadraviḍa: Yes, begging is against the law. (break)

Madhudviṣa: ...alms is very elevated. In Western countries, it is a crime. It's written, "Begging alms." That's one crime that they charge the devotees on sometimes.

Prabhupāda: Electricity is coming?

Lokanātha: Yes, these poles are meant for that.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I doubt, though, if these people can afford.

Prabhupāda: The government can.

Morning Walk -- April 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That I have studied.

Akṣayānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Akṣayānanda: You must have known that before you went to the West.

Prabhupāda: No, it was Kṛṣṇa's arrangement. Kṛṣṇa wanted to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness in the Western countries, so He gave me the chance to take the credit, that's all. It is Kṛṣṇa's arrangement. But He liked that one of His devotee may take the credit. That's all. Nimitta-mātraṁ bhava savyasācin. Kṛṣṇa said to Arjuna that "I have already killed them. They are not returning, either you fight or not fight, but you can take the credit." So it was arrangement of Kṛṣṇa that Western countries should now have this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And He wanted to give the credit to His poor servant. That's all. Kṛṣṇa likes that. He does everything, but He gives credit to His (chuckling) poor servant. That is my..., vairāgya. The whole process is how to achieve vairāgya. Vāsudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ, janayaty āśu vairāgyam... (SB 1.2.7).

Pṛthu-putra: Jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam.

Prabhupāda: ...jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam. That was automatic. And the bhakti-yoga means vairāgya-yoga. Vairāgya-yogaṁ nija-bhak.... Vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yogam (CC Madhya 6.254). So anyway, you have got the right thing. Now make it perfect. Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14). With great vow and endeavor, kīrtana should go on. Then it is perfect. There is no difficulty. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam (BG 10.10). The kīrtana is bhajana.

Morning Walk -- April 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: There is.... The brāhmaṇa... This is brāhmaṇa. This formula is there. Satya śamo damas titikṣā ārjava. So you have to see whether he is possessing this quality. Or train them. Have brahminical school, what I am willing to do. That is required absolutely. There must be a class of men, perfect brāhmaṇa. Otherwise society will be ruined. In the Western countries there is no brāhmaṇa. There may be some kṣatriyas and vaiśyas only, and śūdras. Brāhmaṇa there is none. So the same thing is here also now. Therefore the whole society is going down. There is no brāhmaṇa. What is this? This is brahminical culture. We are asking them not to be sinful, become devotee. This is brahminical culture. Namo brahmaṇya-devāya go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means go-brāhmaṇa-hitāya ca, for the benefit of brahminical culture and cow protection. That is brahminical culture.

Jayādvaita: So to be recognized as brāhmaṇas...

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jayādvaita: To be recognized, our men will have to be, as you were saying yesterday, perfect gentlemen.

Prabhupāda: Yes, brāhmaṇa means perfect gentleman. Brāhmaṇa means perfect gentleman. A rogue, thief, cannot become brāhmaṇa. (laughs) Brāhmaṇa is perfect gentleman. Who feels for others, that is gentleman. Who does not feel for others, for his sense gratification, he is a rogue. A brāhmaṇa, a gentleman, must feel that "Why there should be animal killing?" That is gentleman. If you are killed, you cry and you are.... Hundreds and thousands of animals you are killing on the plea that they have no soul? Lowest class, narādhama. They have been described as narādhama. So narādhama civilization, how he can be happy? There must be frustration.

Morning Walk -- April 13, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: That is what I really meant when I say that...

Prabhupāda: You can do that. You can do that. People will read it, Bhagavad-gītā grammar. On the Bhagavad-gītā teach them grammar. Just like Jīva Gosvāmī compiled Hari-nāmāmṛta-vyākaraṇa, similarly, you write. You have got both the knowledge, Sanskrit, and through English, Bhagavad-gītā grammar. People will take it. I have no time; otherwise I have done it. Simply nominative case, objective case, śabda-rūpa. Jayapatākā's plan is prepared or not?

Saurabha: We are going to do that today, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Dr. Patel: (Hindi) That is taught by the mother.

Prabhupāda: They are killing their children. In the Western countries the mothers are killing children, advising girls, daughters, "Oh, you are pregnant? Kill." (Hindi) (end)

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Mike Barron: And how long.... You'll continue this until...

Prabhupāda: Well...

Mike Barron: ...until you die.

Prabhupāda: The knowledge is already there in the Vedic literature, but there was no discussion, at least in the Western countries. So I am trying to.... We have got so many books, eighty-four books, writing on this science. (aside:) Show him our books. They are being accepted by high learned circle. (break) ...written not jokingly. It is a great science.

Mike Barron: Where do you.... You might think this unusual. Where does it come from, though?

Prabhupāda: The Vedas, Vedic literature.

Mike Barron: What goes into this?

Prabhupāda: Vedas. Vedic literature, Sāma, Yajur, Ṛk, Atharva, Upaniṣad, then Bhāgavata, Bhagavad-gītā, so many. There is no cultivation of this knowledge.

Room Conversation -- April 20, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Day. All over the world.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Devotees are working very hard to spread this consciousness, knowledge. (background talking)

Prabhupāda: Religious book, selling daily so much, huge amount, that is unique in the history.

Carol Jarvis: Are they sold mainly in the Western countries?

Prabhupāda: All over the world. Especially in Europe, America.

Hariśauri: We even had some book orders just recently from Russia.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are also inquiring.

Guru-kṛpā: Every university in America takes complete book. Every book Śrīla Prabhupāda writes, there is standing order. Oxford, Princeton, Harvard, UCLA, University of California...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: All of the leading professors also have written very favorable reviews, citing these...

Prabhupāda: Where is that book, Professor Judah's book? Hare Krishna and Counterculture.

Carol Jarvis: Oh, yes.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Devotee (3): They say it is the upside-down river. It is more blue on the bottom than it is on the top.

Devotee (2): In factories they put all of their waste into the river. (break)

Devotee (1): Prabhupāda, last night you were describing how people serve their dogs. And now, in the Western countries, they have restaurants where you can take your dog, and he sits at the table with you and they serve a meal for him. And they have catering services. You can call up, and they will bring a special meal to your dog, so he can eat at his home. They have beauty parlors for dogs, everything.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they have taken dogs as God. According to Vedic civilization, dog is untouchable. (break) ...all the centers, then how many days it takes?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: To visit all of our centers in the world?

Prabhupāda: No, Europe, America? That is world round.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: About three months if you stayed one day in each center.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, one day only?

Guru-kṛpā: Thirty-five days.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Dhoti, like that?

Prabhupāda: No, you take bath. You have to change your cloth. It becomes wet. This is cleanliness. Satya-śaucābhyām. Śamena damena ca brahmacarya, tapasā brahmacaryeṇa (SB 6.1.13). Tapasya, the first beginning of tapasya, is brahmacārī. Yamena niyamena vā tyāgena satya-śaucābhyāṁ yamena niyamena vā. This is human life, tapasā, brahmacaryeṇa, śamena, damena vā (SB 6.1.13), then truthfulness, cleanliness, controlling the senses. So these things are required. Otherwise what is the difference between dog's life?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: People don't see what the gain will be. If one.... People don't see, in Western countries, or appreciate what the gain will be by exerting much effort in these ways.

Prabhupāda: That they do not know, what is the real gain. They think this body is the gain only. And beyond this body there is another gain. That is not known. They do not know even. That is the defect of their civilization. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). They are taking care of the body, but beyond the body there is something else which is eternal. Even after the annihilation of the body, it does not become destroyed. That they do not know. There is no education. There is no research. There is no college. There is no science to understand. And that kind of taking care of the body, a dogs know. Sometimes the dogs, they rub their body on the ground like that. That.... That makes them rejuvenated. Horse also do that. So how to take care of the body, they know in their different method. But that is known to them. If before the horse you give them some meat, they'll not take. And give them peas; they'll take immediately.

Press Conference -- April 27, 1976, Auckland, New Zealand:

Interviewer: Your Grace, have you been to New Zealand before?

Prabhupāda: Twice. When the Deity was installed, I installed personally. Then I think I came last year here.

Interviewer: You're the leader of how many disciples or devotees throughout the world?

Prabhupāda: Personally, I have got not less than ten thousand. But I was deputed by my Guru Mahārāja to make propaganda in the Western countries. So this movement... Of course, I have started in the Western countries, but in India it is very common movement, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Everyone knows.

Interviewer: Are you at all concerned about the, what seems to be an increasing number of gurus and swamis throughout the world?

Prabhupāda: That I could not follow.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The question is: "Are you concerned with the increasing number of gurus and swamis around the world?"

Prabhupāda: No. We are concerned that in spite of so-called education and advancement of civilization, people have been kept in darkness about real knowledge. So it is our little attempt to awaken them to the real platform of knowledge.

Press Conference -- April 27, 1976, Auckland, New Zealand:

Interviewer: So would it be true to say that perhaps without George Harrison of the Beatles the religion wouldn't be as well known as it is today?

Prabhupāda: No, not like that. That is not that. But in the Western countries nobody comes forward to give us some contribution. But this boy is very nice, he gives us sometimes some thing. He gives, and another boy, who is the great-grandson of Mr. Henry Ford—his name is Alfred—he also helps us. But mostly we get our income by selling these books. We are selling books daily about $200,000 daily. That is our main source of income. And I have made a trust will in which fifty percent of the collection is spent for reprinting the books, and fifty percent is spent for spreading this movement.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: What is God?

Devotee (3): They feel basically that it's an idea. God is an idea.

Prabhupāda: Why it is idea? Explain. What for this idea? Why this idea is necessary?

Devotee (1): Basically I think because in the Western countries there's no conception of God.

Prabhupāda: They.... Those who have no conception, that is another thing. But those who talk of God, that there is God or there is no God, what is the conception of God? That is.... Why do they say there is no God? Why do they say there is God? Somebody accept there is God. Somebody does not accept. So, there are two causes.

Hari-śauri: The basic principle is that God is there, so you either accept or reject Him.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) One is doubtful or one is convinced. God is there. One is doubtful, he says "There is no God." My question is why the question of God is there?

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So sleeping is waste of time. Therefore spiritual advancement means minimizing sleeping. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **. About the Gosvāmīs' life it is said they conquered over nidrā-āhāra. If you eat extraordinarily, then you will sleep also extraordinarily. If you eat frugally, as much minimum required, then you can conquer over sleep. Eating, sleeping. Sleeping depends on eating. Atyāhāra. Atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca prajalpo niyamāgrahaḥ (NOI 2). The people in the material world.... Atyāhāra means collecting more than necessity. One, somebody has got millions of dollars; still, he is working hard day and night to increase the bank balance. Why? You have got sufficient money; now you engage your life for spiritual advancement and take little food. God has given you enough. Why you are wasting your time in collecting money and eating more? That is misuse. Therefore Rūpa Gosvāmī says, atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca prajalpo niyamāgrahaḥ. Āhāra means eating, and āhāra means collecting. So these are against bhakti principles. Collecting more than necessity or eating more than necessity. Atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca prajalpo niyamāgrahaḥ. Prayāsa, things which are not done very easily, I have to endeavor very, very hard, that kind of work should be avoided. Atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca prajalpaḥ, and talking nonsense. No use, you are talking together for hours, what is the use? Prajalpa, it is called prajalpa. And niyamāgrahaḥ, and, without any result, following the regulative principles—or not following the regulative principles. Niyama-agrahaḥ. Agrahaḥ means not to accept. That is also bad. That is bad, actually. And simply to see the regulative principles without any result, that is also bad. Atyāhāraḥ prayāsaś ca prajalpo niyamāgrahaḥ (NOI 2). Laulyam—greediness; jana-saṅgaś ca—and associating with unwanted men, jana-saṅgaḥ. We should not try to associate with nondevotees. You waste your time talking something. Ṣaḍbhir bhaktir vinaśyati. By these six principles one is loser in the matter of devotional service. Āhāra required. Just like we are reading this Bhāgavatam; it is proper utilization of time. Similarly, if we take some newspaper, some statement of the politics, and talk and argue and waste time, there is no need of such thing. I think in our institution there is no newspaper. That is one advantage. In the Western countries, newspaper is very popular thing, a huge bundle of newspaper. Although he'll not read, the newspapermen supplies huge bundle of newspaper. And wasting of paper, printing, unnecessarily cutting the trees, for running on the paper mill. This is sinful activity. They are not reading so many nonsense books and newspapers, but paper is required, there is demand. So paper mill requires cutting of the trees unnecessarily.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Hṛdayānanda: (Purport) "Without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, one wastes twenty years in childhood and boyhood and another twenty years in old age, when one cannot perform any material activities and is full of anxiety about what is to be done by his sons and grandsons and how one's estate should be protected. Half of these years are spent in sleep. Furthermore, one wastes another thirty years sleeping at night during the rest of his life. Thus seventy out of one hundred years are wasted by a person who does not know the aim of life and how to utilize this human form."

durāpūreṇa kāmena
mohena ca balīyasā
śeṣaṁ gṛheṣu saktasya
pramattasyāpayāti hi
(SB 7.6.8)

"One whose mind and senses are uncontrolled becomes increasingly attached to family life because of insatiable lusty desires and very strong illusion. In such a madman's life, the remaining years are also wasted because even during those years he cannot engage himself in devotional service." Purport. "This is the account of one hundred years of life. Although in this age a lifetime of one hundred years is generally not possible, even if one has one hundred years, the calculation is that fifty years are wasted in sleeping, twenty years in childhood and boyhood, and twenty years in invalidity (jarā-vyādhi). This leaves only a few more years, but because of too much attachment to household life, those years are also spent with no purpose, without God consciousness. Therefore, one should be trained to be a perfect brahmacārī in the beginning of life, and then to be perfect in sense control, following the regulative principles, if one becomes a householder. From household life one is ordered to accept vānaprastha life and go to the forest and then accept sannyāsa. That is the perfection of life. From the very beginning of life, those who are ajitendriya, who cannot control their senses, are educated only for sense gratification, as we have seen in the Western countries. Thus the entire duration of a life of even one hundred years is wasted and misused, and at the time of death one transmigrates to another body, which may not be human. At the end of one hundred years, one who has not acted as a human being in a life of tapasya (austerity and penance) must certainly be embodied again in a body like those of cats, dogs and hogs. Therefore this life of lusty desires and sense gratification is extremely risky."

Prabhupāda: Now discuss on this point. If anyone has objection.

Hṛdayānanda: Objections?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Dr. Wolfe.

Dr. Wolfe: Do not some physical means come into the keeping the body strong, healthy, so that devotion is possible at all? Because to produce sick people, of course, is not in the Lord's spirit either, I think.

Prabhupāda: No. Our aim is not to create sick people. That is not our aim.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Devotee (1): I think she was asking also why there are so many young people, why so many young are attracted.

Prabhupāda: Young, they are receptive, and another side is that in the Western countries, your younger generation, they have seen that their father and grandfather are not happy. Is it not a fact? So they are trying to find out something where they will find happiness. As such, they go to so many swamis and yogis who come from India. But there also they are frustrated. But here they are finding the real substance. That you can ask any one of them, they will explain how they have come.

Kathy Kerr: Can you, em, do any of you (indistinct).

Jayādvaita: I can show you downstairs in our magazine, there's an article about our program of visiting India. We have very beautiful centers there. India..., it's not that because we're going to India, therefore it's an Indian idea. Science, it's not "Two plus two" is Indian or American. It's everywhere.

Kathy Kerr: I've asked everything I've been able to think of. Thank you very much for the interview.

Prabhupāda: Very good. You have given prasāda?

Jayādvaita: Yes, we have some downstairs.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: No, there is some pain. My teeth are now useless. So it is all rotten now. Sometimes it becomes acute. There is no strength in the teeth. Some of them, fifty percent, have already fallen. Therefore I cannot eat.

Jagadīśa: I think that a very nutritious diet can be made just from liquids.

Prabhupāda: Liquids, yes. Milk is the best food. Children, when there is no teeth, milk is the food. In Western country also, I think old men, they take milk and puffed rice. Is it?

Hari-śauri: Yes, soft foods anyway.

Prabhupāda: In India, especially in Bengal, there is a preparation, it is softer than the puffed rice-khoi, fused rice. That is very good. Light, at the same time soft purgative. That milk mixed with is a very good food for old men.

Interview with Professors O'Connell, Motilal and Shivaram -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Prof. O'Connell: Swamiji, do you know Professor Bimal Motilal came in during your discourse?

Prabhupāda: Oh, (laughs) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Motilal. (converses in Hindi) That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra (CC Adi 9.41). These things are unknown in the Western countries. So anyone who has taken birth in India, Bhārata-varṣa, they should make his..., one should make his life perfect by assimilating all these śāstras and preach the resultant action to the outsiders. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission-pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma. (CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126) So you Indians, you are here, you assimilate the teachings of Gītā, Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā, and Caitanya-caritāmṛta, and help these people. That is India's business.

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Pradyumna: Dūre vāry-ayanaṁ tīrthaṁ lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dhāraṇam.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Lāvaṇyam, now you know very well in the Western country. Beauty increases by having long hair. (laughter) I was just trying to recite this verse only, and now see how it is current. Who expected that this foretelling is there in the Bhāgavatam? To increase beauty, have long hair. Is it not? Now just see. How five thousand years this thing was foretold? That is the proof. There was no hippie movement then. (laughs) But Vyāsadeva foretold that in the Kali-yuga if one keeps long hair he will think himself as very beautiful. There are so many things. Ultimately, with the advancement of Kali-yuga you'll have no food. Food means there will be no food grains, there will be no milk, there will be no sugar, like that. No fruits. If you get fruits, there will be no pulp, it is simply seeds. These things are there. You get a mango, but a mango means simply the big seed, that's all. So how can you check it? If nature's way, things are going to happen like that, what the scientists will do? If there is no rice, no wheat, will the scientists...? They can say replace with a pill, but they cannot produce wheat or rice or dahl or milk, sugar. That is not possible.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: So the bona fide guru does not claim to be God, but he gives knowledge of God, and he only deals with God.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is bona fide guru.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: A very common occurrence in the Western countries, they say that anyone can be guru. In fact, one Westerner who went to India and came back-he's very popular in the United States today—he says that everyone is guru and everyone is God.

Prabhupāda: And people accept that?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Now you discuss this point. Discuss this point.

Devotee (2): Śrīla Prabhupāda, in Bhagavad-gītā...

Prabhupāda: First of all, you discuss this point, everyone is God and everyone is guru.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Kulaśekhara: So we should simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Yes. No. Try to understand everything, but understanding Kṛṣṇa, you understand everything. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam eva vijñātaṁ bhavanti. And because you do not understand Kṛṣṇa, therefore you do not understand Brahman, you do not understand Paramātmā. But if you understand Kṛṣṇa, then it is automatically understood. We have not understood Brahman, Paramātmā, because we have not understood Kṛṣṇa properly. Kṛṣṇa says, aham sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8), "I am the source of everything." So Brahman is also from Kṛṣṇa, Paramātmā is also from Kṛṣṇa. And so other Bhagavāns—there are so many Bhagavāns also—they are from Kṛṣṇa. So if you understand Kṛṣṇa you can understand everything. And as soon as you say that you have not understood it, therefore you have not understood Kṛṣṇa. They cannot understand, just like Māyāvādīs, they do not understand Kṛṣṇa, therefore they do not understand Brahman also. And therefore they fall down, because they have not understood either Brahman or Kṛṣṇa. Patanty adhaḥ. This is stated in the śāstra. Anādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ, because they have not understood Kṛṣṇa, even they have gone up to the Brahman, they cannot stand there; they fall down. Again they come to the material world. The Māyāvādīs, they say, brahma satyma jagan mithyā, "Brahman is truth, and this material world is false." They take sannyāsa, but after some time they fall down, again take to other businesses than Brahman in the material world. Just like our Vivekananda. He came to the Western countries to preach Vedānta, and he has advertised that "Whole America has become Vedantist." The proof of Vedānta is when he returned to India he became very enthusiastic to open hospitals like the Christian missionaries. So if the material world is false, so why he's trying to open hospitals? Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. Jagat is mithyā. So why in the mithyā platform he's taking credit by opening hospitals?

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: But without personal, direct experience they...

Prabhupāda: For your direct whims you have to spend so much money? The people are so befooled they do not challenge them. Yes. Everyone knows, suppose one is coming to the western country, Europe and America, we knew it, that it is cold country, we must take proper dress. And we have come and we are staying. So this is knowledge. So if you do not know what is the atmosphere there, what do you spend so much money? And again you are going to the Mars. Are you fixed up what is the position there? Then you'll again bring something, some dust and rock. (laughter) This business will go on at the expense of the... You can do. You have got money. You can do that. But we are Indians, we are coming from poor country. If you spend so much money for nothing, that is very, not very palatable for us. If one tenth of the expenditure you would have given to us for spreading this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement... No. Not a single paisa they will give. And they'll spoil money for going to the moon planet and bring some dust. That's ... Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja is struggling to construct a small residential quarter here, and he has to beg, he has to collect, he has done... Why the government does not pay? "Here so many people are living. Let them live comfortably." But they'll spend this money, millions of dollars, and to bring some dust. Is that very sane government? And people are so fool that they do not challenge the government, "Why you are spending for nothing?" They can do that. They brought back Nixon. Why not stop this unnecessary expenditure? Hm? Kīrtanānanda Mahārāja?

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: If you have not learned to love God, then what is the meaning of your religion? Then, when you're actually on the platform of love of God, you understand your relationship with God, that "I am part and parcel of God. Not only I am part and parcel of God, this dog is also part and parcel of.... Every living entity." Then you'll extend love for animal also. If you actually love God, then your love for insect also is there because you understand that "This insect, it has got a different body only, but he is also part and parcel, or my brother." Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Then you cannot maintain slaughterhouse. If you maintain slaughterhouse and disobey the order of Christ, thou shall not kill, and you proclaim yourself as Christian or Hindu or this.... That is not religion. Then śrama eva hi kevalam. Your going to the temple and church and everything is simply waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam. Because you do not understand God. You have no love for God. That is going on, all over the world. They're stamping under some sect, but there is no real religion. So in order to bring them all in one platform, they have to accept the principles of Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. If you do not accept in the beginning Kṛṣṇa, that He is the supreme, then you try to understand that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is education. There is somebody supreme. So if I say, because I am Hindu, I am Indian, that "Kṛṣṇa is the supreme," you may say, "Then why Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa is Indian." "No. He is God. Just like the sun rises first in India, then comes to Europe. But that does not mean the sun is different. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa, although appeared in India, now He has come to Western countries, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You try to understand whether Kṛṣṇa is not God or God. But He is God. There is no doubt about it. If you have got intelligence to understand what is God, then try to understand. But He is God undoubtedly. So take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and abide by the order of Kṛṣṇa. Then everyone comes on the same platform, the religious platform, one religion, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Next question, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Question nineteen. "Do you envisage or envision a different role for Hinduism in the Western countries where the influence of other great religions has been felt for centuries?

Prabhupāda: No. There is no different role. God is one. God cannot be duplicate. As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā that mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). "There is no more superior authority than Me." That is God. Now people is to understand that Kṛṣṇa is God. There is no different role. The role is the same. Five thousand years Kṛṣṇa said that "I am the supreme authority. There is no more superior authority than Me." Still He is so. So we are simply attempting to introduce Kṛṣṇa. Nobody attempted. Although five thousand years past, nobody attempted to introduce the supreme authority Kṛṣṇa. We are just trying to introduce following the orders of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He, five hundred years appeared. He is Kṛṣṇa. He wanted that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness should be spread all over the world.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So the teaching is the same in India as it is in the Western countries.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is being proved. Otherwise how they are worshiping Kṛṣṇa all over the world?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This question here is "In doctrinal content and mode of individual and collective worship..." Is that to say that in your preaching in the Western countries and your preaching in India, you haven't attempted... In the Western countries where there is so many mlecchas, outcastes, so to speak.

Prabhupāda: That is accepted by Kṛṣṇa. Even one is mleccha. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). So there is no question. That is artificial. One is mleccha or one is brāhmaṇa, but that is artificial. That is skin. But within the skin of the mleccha or the brāhmaṇa the same spirit soul is there. Therefore those who are paṇḍita, those who are learned,

vidyā-vinaya-sampanne
brāhmaṇe gavi hastini
śuni caiva śva-pāke ca
paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ
(BG 5.18)

One who is actually learned, he sees the same spirit soul within the brāhmaṇa, within the mleccha, within the cat. (end)

Garden Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Dhana means money. So if you have got money, then everyone will respect you. Personally you may be less than a dog, but because you have got money, people will respect you. Is it not? (laughs) In England I was guest in John Lennon's house. He has taken a photograph, naked. And he's a big man. He gives opinion to the newspaper reporter. People go there to take his opinion about some serious subject, and he speaks, and the man is so shameless that he is standing naked, and he's important man—because he has got money. Especially in the Western countries this is very prominent. If you have got money, then you have got everything. Therefore they are after money only, that "If some way or other, if I get money, then I get everything. I get respect, I get honor. I get everything. Bring money somehow or other." This is the attempt. Therefore there is so much hard struggle. From early in the morning, four o'clock, they are going to the office to get money.

Room Conversation -- June 29, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: What we've been doing with the dead cows is burying them, there's no..., everything's wasted. Śrīla Prabhupāda is proposing that why not the butcher take, we give free, he simply returns us the skin of the cow, and with the cow hide we properly tan it, we can make mṛdaṅga heads for the khol, and shoes, straps, whatever may be needed. The idea being that in the Western countries especially, people are accustomed to eating animals, animal flesh. So we have no objection.

Prabhupāda: Beef, especially beef.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Especially cows and beef. So we have no objection, but they should at least wait until it dies naturally. What is the harm? They still get the same thing, and one devotee, Kīrtanānanda, I think, was saying that when they slaughter an animal even in the slaughterhouse, it has to sit some time, some number of days before they distribute it. So I proposed that the Westerners, they consider that this is superstitious, this protection of the cow. Prabhupāda says Why superstitious? The cow is providing milk. Every child knows that he's getting milk from the cow, the cow is mother. So why in the old age we should slaughter mother? Is this a good argument that like, for example, they say, in India, how so many people are starving, why don't they eat the cows? So Prabhupāda proposed that "If you're starving, does it mean that you eat your mother and father?"

Prabhupāda: If you want to eat, let the father and mother die, then eat. (laughter) Who has objection?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's so reasonable. At least, Prabhupāda says, for the saner section, they will accept.

Hari-śauri: The thing is, people are mad after meat.

Prabhupāda: Madman...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But they still get it.

Prabhupāda: But he'll get meat.

Room Conversation -- July 1, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: His last questions are like this. He's asking about proselytizing in the Western countries, preaching. Is there any hope for preaching? He says Hindi dharma, like this. I think everything is arising because of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement and your Divine Grace's preaching work. Otherwise, they were all sleeping.

Hari-śauri: Ten years ago if they'd have asked these questions before you came to the West, they wouldn't even have thought about going to the West. They are only asking that now because they can see in the last ten years we've been so much successful.

Prabhupāda: They do not know what is bhakti, what is Vedānta. They do not know. Simply aspiring, all after women and money, that's all. First-class rogues. I know all of them, all first-class rogues, after money and women. Beginning from Vivekananda. But they are so popular, if you say openly... Satyam bruhet ma bruhet satyam apriyam(?). "You can speak truth, but don't speak which is unpalatable." But we speak in a different way. And directly we don't speak. People will be angry. They're already fools and rascals.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: This is our philosophy, and the whole world is engaged in economic development. So which is better? (laughs) Here it is said tat-prayāso na kartavyo. We see, especially in the Western country, they are very busy for economic development, and unless one is engaged... I think that Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan, they questioned that in India, people being fatalist...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They questioned, many people think this is a hindrance to progress.

Prabhupāda: So what is progress? In India still, in so fallen condition, we have got practical experience. If there is some arrangement... Sometimes we arrange Hare Kṛṣṇa festival. Each day not less than twenty thousand, thirty thousand, forty thousand people come. Although these, mostly these foreigners, they are chanting, and we are speaking in English, still, to hear the kīrtana, they come from remote villages. In Calcutta I have seen. That is natural tendency of Indians. Bhārata-bhūmi, anyone who has taken birth in India, naturally Kṛṣṇa conscious. By artificial means, they are being suppressed. Just like this Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan, they have questioned that... What they have said?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They said that there are many thinkers in India who consider that the Hinduism is fatalistic, and therefore it doesn't encourage people to make material progress.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That is being explained, that we don't want to stop sleeping, but minimize it. That is being already explained. We don't say complete negation. No. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya. Simply sleep as little as possible. Not that to take, just like in the Western countries, they take sleeping as enjoyment. Is it not?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They call it beauty rest. In Hawaii we went by a Beautyrest Mattress store. They call it beauty rest.

Prabhupāda: Not for beauty rest. (laughter)

Devotee (4): There's a kind of pain also, like when your false ego, when somebody tells you to do something or yells at you or gives you instruction. We all have this propensity to try and lord it over. When that's being denied, we feel a sense of pain, we feel like something, you know, dejected in our service. The tendency is to want to be angry...

Prabhupāda: Therefore you have to be trained up under proper spiritual master. You cannot work whimsically. Then it will not help.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: No, we don't say like that. (laughs) Christian, actually one who is Christian, he's as good as Vaiṣṇava. A Christian means he recognizes God is great. So we also accept God is great. Where is the difference? God is great in all circumstances. So if anyone accepts God is great, that is perfect.

Guest (2): That's what the church board said to me. They said, "You believe in Kṛṣṇa, we believe in God. Why do you go? What's superior?" I feel that your knowledge is superior.

Prabhupāda: The thing is that sometimes we Indians come to Western country for better education. The university in India or the university in U.S. or in Europe is the same, but why does he go after Indian university education to foreign university? Why does he go?

Guest (2): Superior.

Prabhupāda: That's it. God is there, the dictionary is there. Sometimes pocket dictionary, sometimes big national encyclopedia dictionary. The Christians, they have no idea what is God. They believe in God, but if you ask them what is God, who is God, they cannot say. But we can say. That is the difference.

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Janice Johnson: Who have you visited with while you've been here? Have you stayed here, or have you gone out and...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, I am in the Western country for the last ten years, sometimes Europe, sometimes America. I have got more than one hundred temples all over the world, so I go and visit and instruct my disciples about this movement.

Janice Johnson: But you indicated in..., before you came here, that you were interested in meeting some leaders in the city. Have you met any of them?

Prabhupāda: Leaders?

Hari-śauri: She's wondering whether you met with any political leaders.

Prabhupāda: No. I have no interest with the political leaders because it is not a political movement. It is spiritual movement.

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Antagonistic?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Opposed.

Prabhupāda: That is not the remedy, because afterwards he give up and become a sannyāsī, and then again become this gṛhastha. This is not good. Opposition is already there, especially in the Western countries; they will never agree. So why do you marry? That is understood. Huh? Both the boys and girls trained in such a way that there must be opposition. So that is expected, that in your married life there will be opposition. So why do you marry?

Hari-śauri: He's talking about if you're married before you come to the movement and one person wants to join the movement and the other person is not very agreeable.

Prabhupāda: No. Any... It is not because there is opposition, therefore I give up family life. Unless one is mature, there is no need of artificially giving up family life. The best thing is if one can remain without marriage. That is very good. No botheration. Hmm. (devotees offer obeisances) (end)

Evening Darsana -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Guest (1): You've made it very clear, Prabhupāda. I want to thank you for that. I like your purports as much as Kṛṣṇa's actual words, because now I can understand it.

Prabhupāda: Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Otherwise, for the last so many years—I am speaking in Western countries—so many swamis, so many yogis come, they speak on Bhagavad-gītā but misinterpret. So not a single devotee was there. And now Bhagavad-gītā is presented as it is, and so many devotees are coming.

Guest (1): Now we can understand it.

Prabhupāda: You could understand long ago, but difficulty is we accept this misinterpretation, spoiled understanding of Bhagavad-gītā. Just like this gentleman was speaking he did not like Kṛṣṇa, he told me.

Bali-mardana: He did not like Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: They'll read Bhagavad-gītā, and they'll not like Kṛṣṇa. This is their reading of Bhagavad-gītā.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda:

pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma
sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma
(CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126)
bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra
janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra
(CC Adi 9.41)

So Indian life means para-upakāra. They are in the darkness, others, in the darkness. They have no such culture, spiritual culture. India has got that culture, this Bhagavad-gītā. So one should make his life a practically Bhagavad-gītā life. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious movement. And preach it to the world. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's order. And this order was not only... Because Caitanya Mahāprabhu happened to be a Bengali... He appeared in Nadia district, a district in Bengal. But He does not say the Bengalis; He said the bhāratīs. Bharata-varṣa janma haila yāra. So it is India's mission to become exactly on the line of Bhagavad-gītā. That is also spoken by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that perfection of life means to understand Bhagavad-gītā. He said āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa: (CC Madhya 7.128) "You just become a guru and deliver this country." "This country" means wherever you are living—it doesn't matter whether in India or America or anywhere else—you just deliver them. So to become guru means to save a person from the conditional life of matter. So long you become a materialistic person, that means you are under condition of material nature. So you have to get your freedom from the laws of material nature. That is your perfect life. But people in the Western countries, they do not know much of this freedom. India knew it, or some of Indians, they know it. But at the present moment they, being conquered or influenced by the Western culture, they are also losing their identity. Therefore my Guru Mahārāja ordered me to do something about the spiritual life in the Western countries. On account of this I came here.

Interviewer: Can you briefly tell us what the difference, how your approach is different from the approaches of the other gurus who have come? You seen to have rather a unique place in...

Prabhupāda: First of all, we do not accept anyone as guru if he's not competent to understand Bhagavad-gītā and preach it also. He's not a guru. The guru's definition given in the Bhagavad-gītā, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1), in the Fourth Chapter you'll find, vivasvān manave prāha manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt.

Interview with Trans-India Magazine -- July 17, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: And you are journalist, you are not expected to become a motor mechanic or a medical man. But your function is also required in the society. Similarly, the Vedic society was divided into different sections. That is called varṇāśrama-four varṇas, four āśramas. That is very scientific. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra and brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha and sannyāsa. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement includes this system of division of society. It is perfect society. Therefore we are trying to introduce the varṇāśrama system, although it is very difficult nowadays. But if one becomes a devotee, which is above varṇāśrama-dharma, then the purpose is solved. In this age, although varṇāśrama-dharma is very scientific, and Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement includes this, but we are mostly trying to get to the topmost part of varṇāśrama, sannyāsa, or above that. That means Vaiṣṇava. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). One can immediately transcend the jurisdiction of three modes of material nature if he engages himself in the devotional service of the Lord.

māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicāreṇa
bhakti-yogena sevate
sa guṇān samatītyaitān
brahma-bhūyāya kalpate
(BG 14.26)

So actually this varṇāśrama system is meant for bringing the man in the lower status of life to the higher status of life. It doesn't matter one is born in a low-grade family. That is also said by Kṛṣṇa: māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). Pāpa-yoni, lower grade. Striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrāḥ (BG 9.32). In the human society, woman, the vaiśya and the śūdra, they are considered in the lower status, not very intelligent. Te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. They can also become... So in the Western countries, according to Vedic calculation, they are mlecchas, yavanas, low grade. But Kṛṣṇa says ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ, "He can also be elevated, to that extent as he can go back to home, back to Godhead." So this movement is directly giving the opportunity of Kṛṣṇa's service so that they can become immediately bona fide to the position in the highest grade of life, Vaiṣṇava, so that he can go back to home, back to Godhead.

Morning Walk -- July 20, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: These are all rascal, "atmosphere." What atmosphere? Whole world is made of these material elements. Why the atmosphere should be different? Maybe more or less; that is another thing. Just like in the Western country it is very cool and the Eastern it is country hot. But that does not mean everything is changed.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: On this planet we have certain elements, like iron, water, or sand. Could there be other elements on other planets, new elements?

Prabhupāda: No. No.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Same elements.

Prabhupāda: More or less. Just like in the heavenly planets it is said that the roads are built with pearls. So there is more pearl. Here is also. The pearl quantity is there. Therefore they pave on the road.

Room Conversation -- July 26, 1976, London:

Jayatīrtha: It's called a vicious cycle. Because the brain is so dull, therefore they can't understand how to stop performing these activities; and because they don't stop performing these activities, therefore the brain remains dull. In this way they are caught up.

Prabhupāda: No, pramattaḥ, that we can see, pramattaḥ, mad. And everyone, especially in the Western country, so many madmen. The hippies, their whole sect-mad. Pramattaḥ. Then so-called businessmen, so-called scientist, so-called philosopher—everyone is mad. And kurute vikarma, all sinful activities, especially the slaughterhouse, horrible. Everyone is taking share of these sinful activities. They're fighting amongst themselves, this party, that party, communist party, fascist party, then barking in the United Nation and so on, so on. All mad. At least we must know it. Or we are talking nonsense; they are all right. What is your conviction?

Bhagavān: We are seeing that more and more we are having to preach to younger and younger people.

Prabhupāda: Those who are innocent.

Conversation with George Harrison -- July 26, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: They are learning more and more.

Hari-śauri: This one is very good because it explains the breakdown of the social positions.

George Harrison: Hm?

Hari-śauri: The varṇāśrama system. It's very good.

Prabhupāda: This instruction of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam was never given before in the Western countries. This is the first time.

George Harrison: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they're appreciating. We are selling our books daily sixty thousand dollars. All over the world.

Mukunda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you're going to outdo Shakespeare soon. You'll have written more English words than William Shakespeare. (Prabhupāda laughs) Maybe you already have.

Hari-śauri: I don't think Shakespeare's brought out fifty-six books.

Mukunda: The Encyclopedia Brittanica wrote to us asking for...

Prabhupāda: They have said...

George Harrison: These books are such a lot of work. I don't know how he did it all.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):
Prabhupāda: There are so many things in India culture for becoming happy and advancing towards the goal of life. Now I am appreciating for more and more, seeing the whole world, what is India's culture. Formerly I was thinking, "It is custom. To become faithful wife, this is custom." But when I come outside I see what is wife and what is faithful wife. In India, still, in the village, even there is fight between husband, wife, the wife is faithful. Still. Completely dependent on husband. The husband also, in spite of fighting, is always careful that the wife does not get any inconvenience. It was the culture, now it is breaking. (about door or window) You can close that. In material world, for peaceful life, there must be peaceful condition between the husband and wife. Everyone requires wife, everyone requires husband. Sex is necessary, so make the condition of sex very peaceful. Why disturbed? Make the condition that there will be... It is necessary. As eating is necessary, sleeping is necessary, for ordinary man, so sex is also necessary. So make a condition so that nothing will be disturbed, and in undisturbed condition of mind execute spiritual advancement. This is Indian civilization. Aim is spiritual advancement. And to make condition favorable, there are so many things. So unless we get favorable condition... Here in the Western countries there is no favorable condition. First of all, they have no idea of spiritual life, the goal of life, neither there is favorable condition. And gradually things are becoming degrading. On my last tour in Chicago I saw. In three weeks she has twice divorced, one lady's advertised. You remember it?
Room Conversation With French Commander -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Because you do not train the boys to be qualified. You train them to become debauch. What can be done? You train them from brahmacārī, then they'll be responsible husbands. Both the girls and the boys should be trained up. Then they'll be responsible husband and wife and live peacefully. In their young days, if you give them freedom, they'll spoil. What can be done? Young, youthful days, if you give them full freedom, they'll be misguided and spoiled.

Translator: She's asking that since in these Western countries the families are so broken up and the women sometimes cannot find a qualified husband, what should she do?

Prabhupāda: That, here is the society. You train them. You have got all children. You train them in that way, so that... Whatever is done is done. Now you can make very good society, Kṛṣṇa conscious society. Not that one mistake has been done, you should continue. Rectify it. The difficulty is the modern society, the leaders, they do not know the aim of life. They are blindly doing everything like animals. Their philosophy is like the animals. Eat, drink, be merry and enjoy, that's all. This is the philosophy of the animals. And human philosophy is to understand first of all what I am. I am this body or something else? That is human life. But nobody questions this, there is no institution to teach this science, therefore the whole human society is misguided. Just like if I want to train my boy to become a medical man, then I teach him biology, botany, similar... So if... Because I know I shall make my boy a medical man. Similarly, we should know what is the aim of human life. Then we have to construct the social political, everything, favorable to that end. But they do not know what is the aim of life. That is the whole mistake. I think that in Bible there is a story, prodigal son? So we are prodigal son. We are all sons of God, now we have become prodigal sons. What is the meaning of prodigal? "Without any responsibility," is it not? Do whatever you like.

Room Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Then you do not know. You do not know outside, inside.

Moustafa: When I do wrong, for example. When I do lie, when I do something, when I see wrong.

Prabhupāda: Wrong, one thing is wrong in my country, and that is right in your country. Just like animal slaughter is wrong according to our Vedic civilization. Unnecessary animal slaughter is forbidden. But in your country or in other Western countries, they kill so many animals. So what is wrong, what is right? Who will decide?

Moustafa: That's the reason I don't kill animals and I don't eat meat. For three years now.

Prabhupāda: That's very good, very good idea. When we want God, to understand, we must try to understand what is God. What do you mean by God? The God definition is given in the dictionary, what is that? "Supreme being, supreme controller." So how do you understand that supreme controller? What do you mean by supreme controller? In this way we should try to understand what is the idea carried by the word God.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Eh? No difficulty. If you chant Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, where is the difficulty? That is mana-manā. Apply your mind to Kṛṣṇa. Where is the difficulty? The difficulty is that we'll not do it. That is our determination. We shall do everything, but not this. That is the difficulty. Otherwise, there is no difficulty. Everyone will teach about Bhagavad-gītā, so many things they will speak, but nobody speaks that you surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Rather, they will say Kṛṣṇa is fictitious, there was no Kṛṣṇa, there was no... They mislead, that's all. And he becomes a big scholar. The more he deviates you, misguides you, he become a big scholar. This is going on. Is it not? There are so many scholars, politicians, philosophers, they are talking of Bhagavad-gītā. Nobody is talking that Kṛṣṇa, surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Am I right or wrong? They'll say "We have got different meaning of Kṛṣṇa" All the sages, all the saintly persons, they have accepted Kṛṣṇa. Just like Arjuna, when he understood Bhagavad-gītā, he immediately accepted Kṛṣṇa: paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). This is understanding of Kṛṣṇa. Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yan māṁ vadasi keśava (BG 10.14). "Keśava, whatever You have spoken, I take it altogether as it is." Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye (BG 10.14). All fact. And they are manufacturing some meaning. How they'll understand Kṛṣṇa? This is going on. And our, this movement has become little successful.... People give me such credit, "Swamiji, you have done wonderful." But I do not know what wonderful. I do not know any magic. I simply say that you accept Kṛṣṇa or Bhagavad-gītā as it is. That's all. That is my magic. And they are accepting it. They are accepting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. They do not make any interpretation, that "Kṛṣṇa means this, Kurukṣetra means this, Pāṇḍavas means this." No. We are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. You have seen our Bhagavad-gītā? That's all. (break) Before this, before this movement I started ten years ago, so many swamis, philosophers came in the Western country. Not a single person became a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is our challenge. And now you'll find thousands and thousands. Because, what is secret? "As it is," that's all. No change.

Room Conversation with Pandita from Tirupati and Government Minister -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: You see, we have got different philosophical... Ultimately the conclusion is how to surrender to Kṛṣṇa.

Paṇḍita: That is it.

Prabhupāda: So the Western countries, their brain is not so sharp to clearly understand the difference between viśiṣṭādvaita, advaita-dvaita, dvaitādvaita, or advaita. (laughs) Their brain does not allow to think very deeply about... So we are simply teaching them, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). That includes all philosophy. In this way we are preaching all over the world and there is little response. We are selling our books very nicely. So our main purpose is to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is our main... So what is your idea now. How you want to utilize your learning about Vaiṣṇava philosophy? Yes. Yes. How you want to do it?

Paṇḍita: Now, this is my idea. That knowledge that I have must be utilized in this manner. It can be utilized in this manner. You are creating so many disciples. They are interested in learning Gītā and the philosophy and other things. Serious students who are interested in philosophy, who would like to go sit and...

Prabhupāda: You'll find hardly anyone interested in philosophy nowadays. They are interested in technology. In Western countries the universities are closing philosophical class. No student is coming. This is the position.

Garden Conversation -- September 7, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: MRA also?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it is banned now. So Blitz said, "And now it's ISKCON-MRA-Anand Marg." So ISKCON is replying. ISKCON: "Blitz is trying to link us with banned organizations like MRA and Anand Marg. We challenge Blitz to show any of our activity that is dangerous to the Indian society. Our only business is to follow Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is all we are asking others to do also. We're not engaged in any political activity either. So how can Blitz compare us to banned organizations like MRA and Anand Marg?" So this is my reply to point two. "Point three. Blitz: ISKCON was founded in New York in July, 1966. ISKCON: Yes, ISKCON was registered in New York by A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda. Bhaktivedanta Swami went to America at the advanced age of 70 to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness because he was ordered so by his spiritual master, Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Prabhupāda, the founder-ācārya of Gauḍīya Maṭha institutions in India, to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness to the Western countries. Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Prabhupāda strongly desired that the whole world accept Lord Kṛṣṇa's teachings and therefore he ordered his most educated and sincere disciple, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda in 1936 to spread these teachings to the Western world. Bhaktivedanta Swami started translating Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Caitanya-caritāmṛta and Bhagavad-gītā in 1936. When the late prime minister, Shri Lal Bahadur Sastri, saw Bhaktivedanta Swami's Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, he said, "His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda is doing valuable work, and his books are a significant contribution to the salvation of mankind.' Presently Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, a division of ISKCON has published over sixty books of Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda. These include Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, 25 volumes, and Caitanya-caritāmṛta, 17 volumes. These books have been acclaimed by both Indian and Western scholars. The books are being used by about three thousand universities all over the world, including Oxford, Cambridge, and Harvard universities. In India, in the last four months, close to four hundred institutes have placed standing orders on Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda's books."

Prabhupāda: Calcutta University purchased.

Garden Conversation -- October 14, 1976, Chandigarh:

Indian man (5): Mūḍha, you explained last night.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is going on. That's it, that we should take advantage of this human form of life, and we must know what is our position, why we are in this material world. I am this body or so... So many things. This is called brahma-jijñāsā. But nobody is interested. That is the effect of bad education. And especially in the Western countries, they do not believe in the next birth. They do not believe, although it is very clearly pointed out by Kṛṣṇa, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā: (BG 2.13) "The body is changing from baby body, is coming, becoming a boy, a boy is becoming a young man, young man is becoming middle-aged man, and the middle-aged man is becoming old man." The body is changing every moment, and still, they do not believe. Every one of us, we know that we had a childhood body, a boy's body. Where is that body? That body is gone. I am existing, but the body is not existing. Therefore I have changed body. This simple word, they do not understand. Therefore they are called mūḍha. Kṛṣṇa is pointing out, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Similarly, there is after this, after so-called death, the soul changes to another body, and He still further clearly says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre: (BG 2.20) "After the destruction of this body, the person is not killed. He's not dead." Na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācit. These things are there, but nobody understands. And they're very good scholar, big, big student of Bhagavad-gītā. But these things they do not understand. And they're writing very, very big, big comments.

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: And the most dangerous point is that young men are taking part.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The future of the country.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That means it will continue. Young men they take anything very seriously. So this movement is threatening the—what is called?—the foundation of material civilization in the western countries. That's a fact. The foundation is threatened. Their whole foundation is this: meat-eating, illicit sex, gambling and intoxication. They have no other formula. Lord Zetland, when he was asking one of my godbrothers, that "Can you make me brāhmaṇa?" So "Yes, why not? You follow." He said "It is impossible for us. It is impossible for us. And we are no one(?)." That's a fact. If some percentage of the population, European and American population, take it seriously, then it will be dangerous for their government, their economic situation, that's a fact. That, our Sudāmā Vipra is saying that, theatrical...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Sudāmā Swami is in New York.

Hari-śauri: Sudāmā Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: Ha! And whole situation is threatened. Caitanya Mahāprabhu movement. Have you seen that?

Hari-śauri: That play.

Room Conversation on New York court case -- November 2, 1976, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa, in the dictionary it is said, that Hindu God but we are claiming, that Kṛṣṇian, Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa conscious. Kṛṣṇa conscious means "Godder than the Hindus." When you say we are not Hindu that we are not restricted with the Hindi community. That is the meaning. Because Kṛṣṇa says, "I am for everyone." So why should we be restricted to the Hindi community. Kṛṣṇa says sarva yoniṣu, "In all forms of life, I am the seed giving father." Why he should be simply Hindu? This point should be stressed. Sarva yoni means eighty four million..., eighty, eighty, eight million four hundred thousands, all forms. Kṛṣṇa is for all of them. We therefore, why Kṛṣṇa should be restricted to the Hindu community? Hindus are included but Kṛṣṇa is not restricted to Hindus. Kṛṣṇa's picture, that Bal Gopal. He's embracing the calves. Kṛṣṇa does not embrace only the gopīs, He's embracing the calves also. That is Kṛṣṇa. He's equal to everyone. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). Pāpa-yonayaḥ, so many low-grade forms of life, they're also His.... Devotees are part and parcel. Mamaivāṁśo jī... (BG 15.7). Quote this: Kṛṣṇa is not restricted to the Hindu. We say, "We are not Hindu," means we are not.... We embrace everyone. We are not restricted to the Hindus. The so-called Christians, so-called Mohammedans, they.... We embrace everyone, and actually we are doing that. Why should we simply be compact within the limitation of Hindus. That is not our purpose. Then we would not have come to western countries. We actually spreading universal brotherhood. Kṛṣṇa is the father and everyone our brother. We are claiming, all our fallen brothers to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. This is our movement. Caitanya Mahāprabhu (said) pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi grāma, this is our movement. (CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126) Why you should be restricted, to the India, and amongst the Hindus. Our (indistinct) they asked that "Go, go," bhārata bhūmite, you have taken birth in India, that's alright, make your life successful and go abroad, para upakāra. Janma sārthaka kori koro para-upakāra. This is our mission. We have come to you to make you civilized. This is our mission.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? So this is our position. Now you are philosophers. You try to understand the whole philosophy and combine together. People have become all fourth-class, tenth-class, uncivilized men. They should be given the idea of God consciousness. I don't say only in Western country. Everywhere this is the problem, all fourth-class men. So there is possibility to bring the fourth-class men to the first-class. That is educational. It can be done. There is no difficulty. So this is the education, how to make fourth-class men or fifth-class men to come to the first-class standard. What is that? Which verse I wanted?

Jagadīśa:

idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā
sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ
avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito
yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam
(SB 1.5.22)

Translation: "Learned circles have positively concluded that the infallible purpose of the advancement of knowledge, namely austerities, study of the Vedas, sacrifice, chanting of hymns and charity, culminates in the transcendental descriptions of the Lord, who is defined in choice poetry."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, suppose you are a well known philosopher. If you say, "There is God," so many people will hear: "Oh, here is a big philosopher." Therefore your studies of philosophy will be perfect when you establish, "Yes, there is God." Otherwise it is useless because you will waste your time and you'll waste... Already they are Godless.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Jagadīśa: "...International Society for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The two should cooperate. The blind man should carry his lame companion, and the lame man should give guidance to his blind friend. In this way both will benefit. Similarly, the wealthier Western countries should assist the materially exploited East, and the East, particularly India, should help the spiritually blind West to understand scientifically the actual higher purpose of human life. To offer India's transcendental science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness to the West, Prabhupāda sailed from Bombay to New York City in 1965. After a year of great personal struggle, he established the first center of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. In the next few years he attracted hundreds of sincere disciples and opened centers in dozens of American and European cities. He also established gurukula schools and farming communities based on the ancient Indian patterns. In 1970 Prabhupāda returned to India and with the assistance of many Indian gentleman and some of his disciples, he established ISKCON centers in Bombay, Delhi, Calcutta, Madras, and the rural holy spots of Vṛndāvana, Lord Kṛṣṇa's place, and Māyāpur, West Bengal, the birth place of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Soon he attracted many Indian disciples as well, who opened centers in Hyderabad, Ahmedabad, Chandigarh, and in several rural areas. Today ISKCON has about one hundred āśramas, gurukula schools, temples and farming communities around the world. But according to Prabhupāda, his books are his most important contribution. In the last ten years he has published over eighty volumes in sixteen languages. Scholars in India and abroad have praised Prabhupāda's books as classics, scholarly and authoritative. Literally crores of his literatures are sold annually, and this figure is almost doubling every year. How is it possible to sell so many books about Kṛṣṇa? Girirāja, president of the ISKCON center in Bombay, answers, 'People all over the world are looking to India for transcendental knowledge. They know that India's ancient Sanskrit literature speaks of lasting happiness beyond the frustration of material life. They are eager to buy our books because they know that we are presenting the genuine Vedic culture. In fact, many Westerners come here to discover the real India for themselves, (indistinct) life experience. For this reason we are building a model Vedic community at our Juhu center in Bombay, providing all the modern amenities for scholars, students, and sophisticated inquirers from abroad as well as from India who can study the original Indian culture and practice. The center will include a Vedic library, theater, prasādam restaurant, gurukula school, an international guesthouse, as well as a temple and āśrama.' ISKCON is also building a model Vedic community in Māyāpur near Calcutta based on cottage industry and agriculture. The important principle is that everyone must be gainfully employed. In ISKCON's Māyāpur project hundreds of persons operate spinning wheels and more than a dozen handlooms, dye the cloth, and (indistinct) popular design, process rice and dāl by hand, crush sugar cane for sugar products, and manufacture by hand, wooden shoes and other items of daily use. On twenty-five acres of agricultural land in Māyāpur, ISKCON is developing and demonstrating scientific farming procedures such as crop rotation, organic fertilization, and using improved strains. ISKCON is also cross-breeding cattle from Canada and Australia with Indian cows to increase milk production. Thus the community provides (indistinct) daily needs, acts as an agricultural development and demonstration center, and additionally feeds thousands of people twice every week. Within the next ten years, according to ISKCON's plans, the Māyāpur project will extend into a complete Vedic city with fifty thousand..."

Prabhupāda: We have applied for 350 acres of land from the government. The process is going on. If we get, then we shall spend crores of rupees for... The description is...

Jagadīśa: "Within the next ten years, according to ISKCON plans, the Māyāpur project will extend to a complete Vedic city with fifty thousand inhabitants, its own university, airport, and stadium. It will also claim the world's largest planetarium with 410 foot high Temple of Understanding..." (break) ...civilization.

Dr. Kneupper: It sounds like a beautiful project. That is near Bombay, now?

Prabhupāda: No, that is near Calcutta.

Room Conversation -- November 20, 1976, Vrndavana:

So via media, between the manifestation and nonmanifestation, in the middle there is some manifesta... Why you are so much absorbed in that part? Therefore the Europeans, Americans, they bring in the charges, "brainwash." "A brainwash movement. It has no actual value. Simply an artificial way of pushing the idea in the brain. And they have to give up. These children are spoiled. They have given up meat-eating and illicit sex. Their life is spoiled, and so on, so on." So their theory is not without background. There is a background philosophy. And for Western countries, this is a completely new idea. Therefore they are charging, "brainwash." They are not to be blamed because they are, I mean to say, raised in that ideas. Hm? Is it not? Yes. "So this is simply brainwash movement. It has no factual standing." Even our country, what to speak of Western countries. Where the spiritual civilization has a strong background, they are also not believing. Nobody believes Kṛṣṇa is God. Even big, big leaders, what to speak of ordinary men. Especially the so-called educated men. "Bring money anyhow and enjoy life." Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). And for money they are doing everything. Black money, white money, yellow money, this money. (laughs) "Bring money and enjoy. Bas. This is life. Why this nonsense Kṛṣṇa consciousness? No this, no this, no this. Ninety-nine per cent no and one per cent yes. What is the value of this movement?" Is it not? Our life is ninety-nine per cent no. No air even. (laughter) So what to speak of other thing. It is very difficult. Therefore in the beginning I was hopeless, that "Who will hear this movement? Simply no." And especially in this country, in Europe. So dull brain. (end)

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: No insomnia, he becomes mad. (laughter) That is another thing. That is disease.

Hari-śauri: One of my parent's friends, she hadn't been to sleep for 7 months because of a nervous condition when she was going crazy. I saw that.

Mr. Malhotra: There must be sleeping pills.

Prabhupāda: Yes, in western countries, tranquilizer.

Mr. Malhotra: I was in America, you know. So in New York I stayed in one hotel, and every evening, that bellboy, he was keeping two tablets for each of us in the room. Actually I don't know what type of tablets they have done. We have slept thoroughly. In the morning he came to make the bedding. So he said "Sir, you have not taken these tablets?" I said, "What are these tablets?" "Sleeping pills." I said "No, I don't take it." "And you could sleep?" I said, "Yes." Then he said, "Can I have these?" "Yes yes, you can have by all means." (laughter) So he took away all the pills for his own use. So I mean most of the people, they can't sleep without these sleeping pills. Their mind is so agitated and so disturbed. This material...

Prabhupāda: Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām, in the śāstra it is said, "In the material world everyone is always full of anxiety." Full of anxiety.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Indian man: (Hindi) All same...

Prabhupāda: No, actually, India is the best country. There is no doubt. Even these boys, they say India is the best. Puṇya-bhūmi. Religion and other studies of life, India. Communist (Hindi) that (if) you want to study religion then go to India." These boys of western countries, they come to India not to learn the so-called science. They have enough in their country. They do not come here how to manufacture airplane.

Mr. Malhotra: For technology we have to go there.

Prabhupāda: There is no need. It is simply bogus. The first thing you require... You have got this body. You have to eat and you have to dress yourself. You can get from this land. Keep some cows, grow your agricultural products, also cotton, then all economic problem is solved. And save time and understand what is your relationship with God. That is India. This is Vedic civilization.

Mr. Malhotra: This era happened in the past, in the last five hundred years.

Prabhupāda: India is based on this principle.

Morning Walk -- December 27, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That means they are coming to the sense how cow is important. (pause) It is said that he wants to see me.

Hari-śauri: Yes, at Kumbha-mela.

Prabhupāda: That is a fact. Before me, for the last two hundred years, so many swamis and yogis went to the Western countries. Nobody could convert a single person to Hinduism. That is a fact in the history. These foreigners-giving up meat-eating, illicit sex, no intoxication, no gambling—it is a horrible thing for them. Lord Zetland said, "This is impossible for us." Factually it is impossible, because American government spent millions of dollars to stop this LSD intoxication but it was not successful. But they have seen that as soon as the same boy comes to our camp, he immediately gives up, immediately, without any protest, that "Why shall I give up?" No. I ask, "You have to give up." "Yes, we do." That's a fact. Therefore this Swami Chit?

Jagadīśa: Chandra Swami.

Prabhupāda: Ah, Chandra Swami, has strongly recommended that "This is the only movement which is converting Christian into Hindu." He is pleased on this account. He is not interested our Hare... He has said that "I am not very much interested in Hare Kṛṣṇa, but I am interested in this point." That is natural, that nobody could convert the Christian to Hindu, but this movement is doing that.

Room Conversation -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: I will drive the car for today.

Prabhupāda: All right. No, no, why you (indistinct). Young man... (break) ...the world... (break) (laughs) So similarly, if one is giving very important service, then even if there is some faulty thing, excuse. Service is so important. So in the Western country the woman can give very good service. Api cet sudarācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). This, our book distribution is the most important task in our society. Therefore I am giving so much stress and I am working so hard on this. Because this is my life and soul according to the order of my Guru Mahārāja. And by his grace it is to some extent successful. And I took it seriously. I take it seriously still now. That is my life and soul. I never tried in India to construct big temples or even in your country we didn't. I never tried. But I was selling personally books. That is the history. Sometimes they are criticizing, "What kind of sannyāsī? He is doing book business." (laughs) The other day that, what is his name? Bachu Hai came. Bachu Hai Dresswalla. You know him?

Girirāja: I know one Madanlal Dresswalla.

Prabhupāda: I think this is... There are two, three Dresswalla in Bhuvaneśvara.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Conversation with Yogi Amrit Desai of Kripalu Ashram (PA USA) -- January 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is actually a religious conference. All the different groups, they gather in that holy place, and they propagate their philosophy, discussion, like that. India is country of religion. They know how spiritual life more important than this material life. That is India. Now they are diverting their attention to the material; otherwise whole India, they are for spiritual life. They don't care for material ... This material life is brought from Western countries, these railways, these..., so many things, bridges and so on, so on.

Hari-śauri: Factories.

Prabhupāda: Factories and industry and export and import and then slaughterhouse, drinking, prostitute—these are all British contribution. In India, before that, they did not know, although there was Muhammadan kingdom. Muhammadans were happy as ruler. They did not... They thought that "Let them execute their own religion, and let us our religion." That was the relation. And Hindus, they took it that "Somebody must be government..." (break) ...policy that "If the Indians remain as Indian, it will be impossible to govern. Give them education and condemn everything Indian." And they engaged their own men, engaged our men, and gradually they developed the industry. Naturally people became very much astonished: "Oh, they are making such a nice bridge. We have now laid down the railway. We have got facilities, so on, so on..." They gave them, for developing these enterprises, a little knowledge in English, ABCD, they would get good job. In this way they established. Money and export, import... This business enterprise and industry, these..., all these things, were introduced. There was not a single factory before British days. Industry idea is completely Western. And tea garden.

Room Conversation with C.I.D. Chief -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

CID Chief: That is the truth, eternal truth. What you have said...

Prabhupāda: No, we are speaking about Kṛṣṇa. So if I say that Kṛṣṇa says like this and it is a fact, then what is our fault? But they are taking very serious, just like especially nowadays in Western country they are opposing that "This philosophy is a brainwash." So this is our position. Satyaṁ brūyāt priyaṁ brūyāt mā brūyāt satyam apriyam.(?) The world situation is that you can speak truth if it is palatable. And if it is unpalatable, don't speak. But this thing cannot be maintained when you are preaching spiritual life. There we cannot cheat. Spiritual life must be declared very frankly. Not that we have to declare; it is already declared. Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). The spirit soul is within this body. The body is different from the spirit soul, and as it is changing—the body is changing—similarly, after death, so-called death... Because spirit has no death, no birth. Na jāyate na mriyate vā. So this knowledge is the beginning of spiritual life. And if you are preaching, they are opposing us. India also opposing. This is our position. They take Bhagavad-gītā and they mislead them. And we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. That is our fault. So what we can do. Can you suggest?

Room Conversation with C.I.D. Chief -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No... You should be very kind upon... And what we can do? And if I cheat in the name of Bhagavad-gītā, then I become a great leader.

CID Chief: All nation has turned... An extraordinary order, you spreading the message of Kṛṣṇa to the world, message of Bhagavad-gītā.

Prabhupāda: So at least Indians should join this movement. They're feeling the weight, the Western countries. They are opposing means that those who are thoughtful, they are thinking that "If this movement allowed to go on, then our civilization will be finished." That is their... That... They are right. They are right. If these young men, they go on under my instruction, I shall finish their civilization. That's a fact. No meat-eating in Western countries? (chuckling) No intoxication? No illicit sex? No gambling? That means their life is finished. And we are imitating, that "We are becoming advanced in civilization." And we are condemning.

Room Conversation with C.I.D. Chief -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

CID Chief: I read somewhere that this scientist, Russian scientist, was making research through electronics as to what happens to the soul when man dies, what actually happens when man dies. What is...

Prabhupāda: No, no. You may study with electronics and other, but it is a open secret. The soul departs from the body, and it is a lump of matter. What is the difference between a lump of matter and the dead body? We see practically a motorcar, when it is no more workable, it is a lump of matter. What is the value of it? Who cares for the motorcar? Of course, we do not see here, but in the Western countries there are many places. Oh, hundreds and thousands of cars are...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Junk yard.

Prabhupāda: Hundreds and thousands. Here, of course, we have not so many cars, but there in many cities I have seen. They have gathered together, and then they are pressed and thrown to the iron factory and again melted in fire of... So similarly, when the life is not there, it is a lump of matter. So it is lump of matter. Just like the motorcar. When it was being driven by driver, it has value, but when it is not to be driven anymore, it has no value. Similarly... But the motorcar is the same. It is the driver that is important. Similarly, the soul is important, not this body. But the modern civilization, accepting this body as the important, and they have no information of the driver, soul.

Letter to Russian -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Sada? Or I'll get masalā if there are no onions in it. Sometimes they put onions.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: If there's no onions, I'll get one masalā also. Okay.

Prabhupāda: (japa) Except in few provinces, everyone eats onion, all over the world. And garlic. In Western countries I think onion and garlic, cent percent they eat.

Hari-śauri: Not so much garlic but onion anyway. Onions they love, big ones.

Prabhupāda: (japa) Sell books and this principle follow: half construct temple, half print books. That's it. No income tax. "We have spent everything. That's all." (japa) In Vṛndāvana, he was suggesting, that Set, Setterji, that "You make some will. Otherwise, after your... In your absence the government will..." And I'll not keep a single farthing. I shall spend all before I die. (chuckles) Invest in book, that's all. I am insisting on this. But I am simply afraid if we have got enough stock, it may not be stolen and misused. Otherwise I want to immediately invest in books all the money that I have got.

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: No, here... I mean, so far as the Eastern European countries, they are more or less pure. They are mixed in a way.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, we are not on that platform, we or anyone. We think we are on the... Everyone in the material platform, more or less, they are rascals, here or there. The Bengali is guhyera epi han opi. You know this? Stool, this side or that side, Eastern side or Western side, it is, after all, stool. (laughs) If somebody says, "Eastern side of the stool is very good," that is his foolishness.

Dr. Patel: After the scattering of these Aryans, they have come different place. How is it that we brought all the cultural heritage in north, east and western countries? They must have also taken. But because they have to live very hard life, they are in cold countries...

Prabhupāda: And what do you mean by "we"? We are not...

Dr. Patel: "We" means our forefathers.

Prabhupāda: Forefathers may be saintly person, but we are not. Why do you say "we"?

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Indian Lady: Their people don't like us. (indistinct-man says something to Prabhupāda in background)

Prabhupāda: Oh, where is he? Good. Everything is bad.

Indian Lady: German people don't like us.

Prabhupāda: Why we are liked? We are poor, who will like us? Poor man is never liked, especially in the western countries. They hate. And not only there, our Canakya Paṇḍita also says, daridra-doṣa guṇarāśī nāśī, if you are poor then all your qualities are gone.

Dr. Patel: What is the disease?

Prabhupāda: So materially wherever I go, there any gentleman I meet, "Oh, you are coming from India, very poor (indistinct)." This is our (indistinct). Not now, fifty years ago in 1930's when one of my godbrothers, one or two they went to London, Lady Willingdon, she was speaking that "You people come here from India and we give you degrees and you earn your livelihood in India. So what you have come to teach us?" That's a fact. We go to England to take the degrees, MRCT, FRCA, barrister or so on, so on, so on.

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Girirāja: They could see stories of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Mm? Mythology.

Girirāja: That is mythology.

Prabhupāda: And here is fact. So one side is: people are no more interested. (indistinct). This is our business. I think western countries the young men, they're joining this successfully. Adānta gobhir viśataṁ tamisraṁ punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). (indistinct) first part. Find out this matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā. Matir na kṛṣṇe. This is our law book.

Devotee:

matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā
mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha-vratānām
adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisraṁ
punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām
(SB 7.5.30)

"Prahlāda Mahārāja replied: Because of their uncontrolled senses, persons too addicted to materialistic life make progress toward hellish conditions and repeatedly chew that which has already chewed. Their inclinations toward Kṛṣṇa are never aroused, either by the instructions of others, by their own efforts, or by a combination of both."

Prabhupāda: Read the purport.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: In Kali-yuga there is no marriage. Svīkāra eva codvāhe. Agreement.

Trivikrama: By agreement.

Dr. Patel: That is in Western countries.

Prabhupāda: No, everywhere. India also.

Dr. Patel: Marriages are brought in famine (?) and they are never broken down again.

Prabhupāda: No, in big, big cities there is a marriage magistrate. You go... The boys and girls go and register there...

Dr. Patel: Yes, but here...

Prabhupāda: No, no. Marriage is, therefore, what is called primitive. Primitive. Modern marriage is primitive.

Dr. Patel: I think also that is correct. In your time, sir, you never used to see the girl from the year before the marriage. In our times, we never used to see the girl before the marriage. I never saw my wife. She was in Mahatma Gandhi's āśrama, and I was on this side. I never saw. And we lived very happily.

Prabhupāda: No, in my marriage, it was already settled. So one day I was going in cycle. So my father-in-law forcibly took me.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Pālikā: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And the Western countries, they have been taught to become independent. That is artificial. That is all artificial. So, woman by nature... Manu-saṁhitā says, na striyaṁ svatantram arhati: "Women should not be given independence." They must be protected by the father, by husband, and by elderly sons. They are not independent. No independence. Even Kuntī, the mother of such big, big sons, she was not independent. The sons were sent to the exile; mother also went. Sītā... The father-in-law never said that "You also go with your husband." No. He requested Rāmacandra that "Your stepmother wants that You should be exiled. So please accept it. Accept this." And Rāmacandra said that "You are not exiled." But Sītā said, "I may not be exiled, but I am dependent on You. If You go to the forest I must..." You see? Just see, dependent.

Jagadīśa: Most of the women, or at least many of the women in our society, have neither father, husband or sons.

Prabhupāda: It is very precarious condition. So we want to give them, all of them, "Come and live." But when you come here, if you get husband we have no objection. But don't canvass. That is not good. And that is making our sannyāsīs fall down. Of course, it is difficult, that young men, young women living, intermingling. But it is... Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to reform everything. Even there there is such desire it should be checked. And that can be checked if one is strictly Kṛṣṇa conscious. Otherwise not possible.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Guest (1): It's a very good idea, then, to follow it. I'm quite serious.

Prabhupāda: And they are democratic. It can pull down even a President like Nixon. So if they like, if the majority becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, they can make Kṛṣṇa conscious government. There is no, I mean to say, wonder in it. So anyway, because these youngsters in the Western countries, both in Europe and America, are taking... And the recent telegram we have received... Just see how many books we have sold. (aside:) Make it little less.

Guest (2) (Indian man): (reading telegram) "Dear Śrīla Prabhupāda, please accept our humble obeisances. Here are the saṅkīrtana marathon results for all of ISKCON worldwide for the week of December 17th to 24th."

Prabhupāda: One week's report.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Girirāja: No bother.

Prabhupāda: This I want to introduce. And it has become successful in the Western countries. They are doing very nicely, New Vrindaban. Very nice. And Philadelphia, New Orleans. Men, they're happy. So why not in India? India is mainly agricultural country. On this principle you can take. There is no objection. I left Haṁsadūta in charge, but he left everything.

Girirāja: Actually, it seems that in your system of management, the basic principle is to depend on Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not? He says ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo (BG 18.66). Distress will be if I am disobedient. This is nature's law. And if I surrender to Kṛṣṇa, where is the question of distress? Sukha se saba hari bhaje duḥkha se haje. This is one Hindi poetry, that "When one is in distressed condition, he goes to God: 'Please save me. Give me this mercy.' " So duḥka se means: "In distressed condition he becomes a devotee." But if he becomes a devotee when he's happy, then where is the question of duḥkha, or distress? Sukha se saba hari bhaje. When you are happy, at that time if you worship Hari, then there is no question of duḥkha. That Vivekananda's policy, daridra-nārāyaṇa-seva. Why not seva-nārāyaṇa? Why He should become daridra? Why not engage in? That he does not know. "He becomes a daridra-nārāyaṇa, and I become his servant." Foolish rascal. A discovered philosophy. (end)

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I am in the Twenty-second Chapter.

Pradyumna: Yes. You're in Twenty-second Chapter. Twenty-first I'm going to send out.

Prabhupāda: And two chapters more will finish Ninth Canto.

Hari-śauri: You did quite a bit last night.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If people actually taking like that, then there will be a revolution in Western country.

Hari-śauri: I don't see how they can stop it. They can't stop it.

Prabhupāda: Huge quantity selling. Either Kṛṣṇa's desire... It is Kṛṣṇa's desire. Otherwise a religious book which is not their religion, Bhāgavatam, Indian. So somehow or other it is being distributed, and they say it is spreading like...

Girirāja: Epidemic.

Prabhupāda: Epidemic. So it is a kind of revolution.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is personally as a sannyāsī, not that... He never said that women should be refused Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Dr. Patel: No. Nobody has said so. But they should not mix.

Prabhupāda: Here in the Western country it is their custom to mix, intermingle freely. How can I stop it? I may stop in my temple, but they will do it outside. So it is impossible.

Jagadīśa: Nowadays even in the universities, they allow the free mixing of boys and girls in the same dormitories. In the same dormitories.

Prabhupāda: Same room.

Dr. Patel: In the same dormitories they live together you mean. Girls have no separate...

Jagadīśa: Oh, yes. Free mixing.

Trivikrama: Same showers even. Bathroom the same.

Dr. Patel: Oh, were...

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa gives freedom. Striyo śūdras tathā vaiśyās te 'pi yānti parām. "Never mind. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Come on." Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa (BG 9.32). "Anyone. Come on. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Take prasāda." This is my propaganda.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Grace means he'll willingly give you mercy, and mercy means you ask for mercy. Kṛpa-siddha. Sādhana-siddha and kṛpa-siddha. You are trying to earn one lakh of rupees—that is sādhana. But if somebody is gracious he can give you: "Take one lakh of rupees. Don't work hard." That is grace. That is kṛpa. You are ambitious for one lakh of rupees or somebody graciously give you: "All right, take." There are many persons. So that is grace. Otherwise, you earn by your hard labor. That is sādhana. Similarly, by association, by sādhana-bhakti, you attain perfection, and by grace also, you can attain perfection. Two ways. So those who are kṛpa-siddha, they are more fortunate. (Hindi) Preach this Bhagavad-gītā as it is. People will be benefited. You'll be benefited. Don't make unnecessary interpretation, misguide others and spoil your own life. That is very unfortunate. What is the difficulty to accept Bhagavad-gītā? There is no difficulty. Unfortunately we interpret in different way and take it other way. So our little attempt is to spread Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and whatever it may be, it is being accepted in the Western countries. Not by all. But the people in general, now the... Feeling the weight, they have now began opposing.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: They have learned this. They have been accustomed... And by nature they are not, I mean to say, dovetailed to this system of life.

Hari-śauri: Somehow or another, they just can't do it. They can't live like that.

Prabhupāda: And now we are going to Kumbha Mela, a religious assemble. In the Western countries you don't find so much.

Rāmeśvara: No. In the 1960's in America they tried to have such assemblies, but they simply were becoming naked and having drugs—LSD, marijuana—in the name of spiritual festival. I remember very prominent festivals in America, but everyone was simply naked. They thought that was spiritual.

Prabhupāda: Naked? Fully naked?

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Hari-śauri: Nobody mentions Radhakrishnan.

Prabhupāda: Who cares for Vivekananda? Who cares for Dayananda? Nobody cares. They are doing their own business. Still, daily two lakhs of contributions in Vaikuṇṭhanātha temple, Tirupati, still. Who is paying their money? Ordinary payers. Who cares for Radhakrishnan? India is not so fool that by the words of Radhakrishnan they will stop worshiping Kṛṣṇa, will not worship Kṛṣṇa. India, although poverty-stricken, illiterate, but they have got their still... All, millions of people, will come in this Mela. Who cares for Radhakrishnan? There are so many atheists came and gone, things are going on as it is. This is culture.

Rāmeśvara: Now in the Western countries, the standard of culture and education is coming from the idea of the Renaissance in Europe.

Prabhupāda: That is not culture. That is not culture. As soon as you change, that means it is not culture. It is mano-dharma, mental concoction. Culture is never changed, Renaissance and (sic:) Fennaissance.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Rāmeśvara: Chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa is widespread. Because that... They are criticizing.

Prabhupāda: No, no, this, this, this śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ, this śloka, was cited just little after the creation. That means millions and millions of years ago. Now, not recently. Many millions and billions of years ago. That is the oldest. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam (SB 7.5.23). Whichever item you take, it is very, very... Just like this Parīkṣit Mahārāja. That is at least five thousand years ago. So where is the history of the human society in the Western countries? They cannot give history more than three thousand years.

Rāmeśvara: They think it is simply caveman.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: Prehistoric. They call it pre—history, living in caves, monkey men. Also I was thinking, in the movie they can take the testimonial of different scholars and professors in India about your books and about chanting as a process for awakening the mind, because they are accusing us that "By chanting, you are killing your brain." So if we take...

Prabhupāda: That, it is acting, rascal, on brain. We are teaching or giving them process. That you cannot understand. But our mantra is so strong that it is acting on the brain. So why don't you take this side, that "If we are simply chanting and it is acting on the brain, even from your side, that it is so strong that we are giving up everything for this process. So how much this chanting is strong, why don't you see to that?"

Rāmeśvara: We can even take testimony from some scientists...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 15, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: ...in Western countries, fifty years. Twenty years in Durban and thirty years in England.

Gurudāsa: Twenty years in...?

Prabhupāda: In Durban. South Africa. Fighting with General Smuts to give Indians equal rights. They are very conservative. At heart they want "Indians may go away." They don't want Indians. And if they want, it is for their own benefit. The Indians have given some place to develop as marketplace, and as soon as they develop, they ask, "Go there. Leave this place. Go away, other place." This is going on. And they know very well, politicians. The Indians have been given a place where nearby there is a slaughterhouse. They know Indians are sentimental, at least for cow slaughtering. Whole night slaughtering is going on, and there are screaming of the animals. Whole night. Even those who are meat-eaters, they will be disturbed. So the purpose is that "Let them live near the slaughterhouse, so by sentiment they are disgusted, leave this country." They don't want the Asians, especially Indians, and especially due to Gandhi, because they know, due to Gandhi... At least Gandhi organized the public opinion against the Britishers by this noncooperation movement. They were not affected by the... Affected in this way, that public opinion was against them. That is also organization. Otherwise Gandhi's method was not harmful to the..., this noncooperation, nonviolent. That did not help. But he influenced the public opinion against them.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: Research how to get new sources of food.

Prabhupāda: No.

Hari-śauri: Reader's Digest, that "Life After Death."

Prabhupāda: "Life After..." They do not believe. Western countries, they do not believe there is life after death. They are making research.

Hari-śauri: But if it comes in a scientific presentation, (laughs) then they accept.

Prabhupāda: What is this scientific presentation? (laughs) It is simple thing. Kṛṣṇa is giving the example, the dehāntara. A child is changing body to boyhood, boyhood... Very simple thing. But the brain is so dull, they cannot understand.

Rāmeśvara: It is too subtle for them to see or measure with their blunt senses, so therefore they do not accept it. They think of it as just...

Prabhupāda: That is for less intelligent. We accept it, even we do not understand thoroughly. But Kṛṣṇa says, authority, śruti; we believe it.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: Yes. Especially in India now, that's all they want to read, is anything on technology, any field.

Rāmeśvara: They have been brainwashed.

Prabhupāda: No, in the Western country also. Western country, now this higher English, higher mathematics, higher philosophy is no student admission. Nobody's going. They're going to close.

Hari-śauri: Yeah. Philosophy and all the arts.

Prabhupāda: No, anything higher study, don't care for it.

Rāmeśvara: It's true. Technical studies and business...

Prabhupāda: Our Hayagrīva is not getting any employment. Nobody's interested. "Eh. What is the use of higher mathematics, all this, these things? We have to earn money."

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Just like if there are temples, people are accustomed, going to temple, chanting Hare..., there is no harm. But the city like the Western countries, simply sense gratification, that should be stopped.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. Yes. And you mention specifically...

Prabhupāda: Just like in Kṛṣṇa's time there were cities like Mathurā, Dvārakā. They were cities, big, big city. And when Kṛṣṇa came, they were decorating, they were receiving. So that kind of city will continue, but not this hellish city-slaughterhouse, brothel and big, big tin car, and so on, accident.

Hari-śauri: Skyscrapers.

Prabhupāda: We have no objection to this, provided there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Unfortunately these things cover more time for their maintenance, and they forget Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That should be stopped. The main business is development of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Evening Darsana -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Udaraṁ bharatā. Dakṣyaṁ udaraṁ bhāratā. Bas, Kali-yuga. Somehow or other, if you can fill up your bellies, then you are very expert. That is going on. If you can maintain your family nicely, then you are dakṣya. Dakṣyaṁ udaraṁ bhāratā. These symptoms are there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Because the Kali-yuga, it is so condemned that it will be difficult to maintain one's body and soul together, that udaraṁ bharita is very expert. He's maintaining. (laughs) Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā (SB 1.1.10). All unfortunate, they have no certainty. In Western countries they have voluntarily given up regulative life, the hippies. No certainty where he shall eat, where he shall lie down. Voluntarily. Coming of very nice family. In Europe, America.... Especially in America there is no question of becoming poor. Everyone has got sufficient means. But still, voluntarily they have accepted this poverty. Voluntarily. A father is rich man. Grandfather is rich man. And besides that, the government maintains. If you have no engagement, the government will give you at least $25 per week. Is it not?

Satsvarūpa: More than that.

Prabhupāda: More than that. You were in the welfare department. What is the minimum?

Evening Darsana -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Forty means at the rate of nine rupees.

Guest (2): Nine-fifty.

Prabhupāda: No, not fifty. Per week, yes.

Mr. Pandiya: In Western countries they give wages in terms of weeks.

Prabhupāda: Yes, weekly.

Guest (1): So spiritually they are innocent, comparing with India. We have become complicated after passing through many cultural ups and downs.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Due to these blind leaders. You see Bhagavad-gītā.

Guest (2): But, sir, Gandhi told that "You read Gītā."

Prabhupāda: He did not know himself. (laughs) That is the pity. He has spoken in this Gītā lecture that "My imagination of Kṛṣṇa is different from Bhagavad-gītā." A Kṛṣṇa is a subject matter of imagination. Have you read his lecture on Gītā?

Guest (1): Gītā-pravacana.

Room Conversation -- January 26, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Regular business. It is very difficult to consult with a doctor.

Gurukṛpā: And I saw the dentist. He tried to ruin one of my tooth so he could do work on that also and make more money. He tried to damage the teeth.

Prabhupāda: Money is the only aim. And they will talk all nonsense and make experiment, especially in the Western countries. Here also they have got now money-making sight. Lawyers also. Any... I have seen in our relatives, big, big rich men. The brothers may sit down and make some... My father-in-law did that. They sat down, and they were two brothers, and divided his property and got two days. But those who are rascals, they go to lawyer and continually meeting—his man, his man. In this way the whole property is sold. And they get out with this. That's all. I have seen so many cases. Then the property division means there is nothing to divide. Everything is sold, and the money was taken by the lawyers as their fees. I have seen so many cases. These real estate men? Real estate? They also. So many times they complicated our men. You know that?

Satsvarūpa: The first time?

Prabhupāda: Yes. They'll promise... You have got five thousand dollars. They'll promise 100,000 dollars' property you'll get, and how it will be done, this scheme, that scheme... "We'll do this scheme, that..." Then they will take five thousand dollars from you, and they will say, "Now it is finished. Now bring more money." Then further made... That lawyer who was trying to give me a permanent visa?

Satsvarūpa: Yeah, some Greek name.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: And somebody is expecting milk from that nipple. Nature's study. Therefore knowledge is in India. There is no doubt. If you want to become perfect, you have to take knowledge from India, this Vedic literature. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that take, assimilate of the Vedic knowledge, and distribute it to the other parts of world. That is para-upakāra, real welfare activity. Because they are in darkness. What do they know, Western countries, about this knowledge? They think by this dog race... "A dog is running by four leg, and I am running by four-wheel car. I am advanced." That's all. That is Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Moha, another illusion. Rascal, what you will do with this world, four-wheeling? You'll have to die like the dog. What you have done for this? You are very much proud. "The dog is running with four legs, and I have got a Rolls Royce car. I am so advanced." But, rascal, when the dog will die, you'll also die. In spite of four wheel, you'll die. What about that? What is your science says about that? Then he'll say, "Wait millions of years. We shall do that." This is science. When you put him in the corner—"Now, the dog, poor dog, will die, and you'll also die. What you have done for this?"—"No, wait. We shall do it." Is it not?

Gargamuni: "We are trying."

Room Conversation -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Let them remain, family life, but understand what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That's all. We never condemn family life. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa anywhere. That's all.

Pṛthu-putra: Oh, yes. But that will be very difficult for them to become devotee. Instead, they went to the Western countries and become devotees there. But otherwise, in their own country will be very difficult for them.

Prabhupāda: Let us invite them, whole family. Let them come, take prasāda, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Pṛthu-putra: Yes. That I did.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Pṛthu-putra: I was living with one whole family. Sometimes I cooked prasāda for them, and they like it very much. They like us as a person.

Prabhupāda: Simply follow this. Give them prasādam and let them chant. That is preaching. And if they're educated, let them read books. Then gradually, he'll automatically come.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To some extent, yes. But...

Prabhupāda: No. It is prohibited to speak of God among the scientists.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But in India, if he speaks in India to the scientists, they will receive it much more readily.

Prabhupāda: Hm. In Western countries they have no brain.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, cow dung.

Prabhupāda: Cow dung. Cow dung, no. Man's dung. (laughter) Cow dung is pure. Man's dung. In our youthful ages we used to say, dadang dang.(?) Our one professor, Mr. Cameron, English professor, he was Scotsman. In our I.A. class or B.A. class he was... So that time Patel's Bin(?), intercaste marriage... We were young man. We were supporting. So before the professor's coming in the blackboard we wrote, "Dadang dang Patel's Bin dang," (?)and like that, in Bengali. So Professor Cameron came. He saw, "The boys, they have written something." So he simply read it, remained silent. Then he began his teaching. Then when the hour is over, he erased the blackboard, and he wrote. He wrote in this way-jakhan tomār biye pas korbe, takhan tomār biye kote pade.(?) He wrote it and read it. So the purport is that tomār jana.... "When you'll pass your B.A. examination, then you'll be allowed to marry. Now you don't talk of this Patel's..." So we clapped him, and (laughs) it was very nice. Mr. Cameron.

Room Conversation -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Ādi-keśava: What about in the temples, when we're visiting the temples? The temples we're visiting now... That book that Jayatīrtha was making on Deity worship following from the Hari-bhakti-vilāsa, he told me he is making on your order to make a standard of Deity worship. That is the standard we should be advising the temples to follow?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Make it simplified. At the present moment, especially in the Western countries, it is not possible to follow very elaborate program, but what I have given already, that is sufficient, six times worshiping, ārati, just like here going on, just like the same program. Not to make it difficult thing, because with the advancement of Kali-yuga, more difficulties are coming. So simple, things should be simplified. That is wanted. (break) Go on preaching from one place to another, another place. Mahā-vicalanam. Mahātmās should walk. Vicalanam, "movement." Just like I was in Vṛndāvana. If I had not moved, then this movement would not have been started. Because I moved at the age of seventy years, something is now tangible. So similarly, every sannyāsī should move from place to place. Parivrājakācārya, that is... Ācārya means teacher, and parivrāja, movement. Bhavānanda Mahārāja has become very popular in Bengal. You can move from village to village. People will like you. You can speak little Bengali?

Bhavānanda: Little bit.

Arrival of Devotees -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: This is the combination of American money and Indian culture. This is the result. In every field of our activities, this will prove wonderful, American money and Indian culture. Andha-paṅgu-nyāya. Therefore Kṛṣṇa sent me to America. "Go America." Generally people come to Western country means London. But I never thought of that. I thought, "I shall go to New York," from the very beginning.

Rādhā-vallabha: Īśopaniṣad also. "Over one million copies in print" at the top.

Rāmeśvara: It has new color pictures on the inside, the different selections.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There are no such handsome books anywhere else in the world, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Rāmeśvara: This is called a "teaser." All paperback books in America have this kind of teaser to attract the reader to find out more.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The back cover is very good also, the heading.

Rāmeśvara: It says, "Eighteen age-old secrets of inner peace and fulfillment." These are the popular themes in America. Everyone is wanting this. Now we're telling people that "This chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa...," we are describing it using the language of the modern psychologists, that "This will give you inner fulfillment. It will enable you to handle more stress and the pressures of daily life. If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, you get a stronger sense of your real identity. You feel more in control of your life." By using scientific descriptions, everyone appreciates it.

Prabhupāda: Recent printing, how many?

Evening Darsana -- February 26, 1977, Mayapura:

Lokanātha: It's fortune to take birth in the West now. It's fortunate to take birth in America or England? (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Not all. (laughter) Not all. The fortunate, those who are so fortunate, they are now opposing me. The Western people, they are now opposing this movement, so they are not fortunate. So everywhere there are fortunate and unfortunate. But mostly in this age they are unfortunate. Either in the Western countries or in this country, they are unfortunate mostly. They cannot understand. In India at least those who are not very educated, mass of people, they believe transmigration of the soul. They very easily believe it because culture is based on that, pūrva-janma paro janma. They believe that "If I act sinfully, then I'll have to suffer next life, and because I did not do properly, therefore I am suffering in this life." Still they believe. But the so-called educated people, they are trying to set aside this. They say, "Superstition." And the leaders say that "India, giving more stress on the soul, not on the body, India's position is so degraded." This is the leaders' opinion. Big, big leaders, they think. Therefore the so-called leaders or learned scholars, they write notes on Bhagavad-gītā, but they never give any idea of spiritual life. They utilize Bhagavad-gītā for material end. This is going on. Just like our big leader, Gandhi. He was supposed to be very strict follower of Bhagavad-gītā, and he has never instructed about spiritual life.

Room Conversation -- February 27, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Everyone in India responsible. That is Indian culture still.

Rādhā-vallabha: Should... When they agree at this young age, they should wait till they get older, right?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Generally a girl attains puberty at fourteen years, thirteen years. In India because it is tropical climate... I think in Western countries they attain puberty not before fifteen, sixteen years. So although a girl is married before puberty, she is not allowed to go to the husband until she has attained puberty. Formerly, in our days also, after attaining puberty there is another second marriage. Then the husband and wife live together.

Rādhā-vallabha: Is there a minimum age for the man?

Prabhupāda: No. That is... Minimum age means generally the husband must be older than the wife, at least five years' difference.

Rādhā-vallabha: What is the most amount of years they can be different? What is the maximum amount of years there can be difference?

Prabhupāda: Man has no maximum. Even an eighty-years-old man can marry a sixteen-years-old girl. (laughter)

Room Conversation -- February 27, 1977, Mayapura:

Rādhā-vallabha: Jagannātha.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. According to the translation. Not that he becomes a greater scholar than my Guru Mahārāja.

Rādhā-vallabha: I don't think that's possible.

Prabhupāda: Alpa-vidyā bhayaṅkare.(?) This is the Western countries' deficiency. They learn little, and they consider that he has become very learned scholar. This is the defect.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Like a Professor Frog puffing up and then bursting.

Rādhā-vallabha: Nitāi burst.

Prabhupāda: Where he is now?

Rādhā-vallabha: I don't know. I heard that he was heading for America, then wanted to go back to India, some nonsense. I could find out if you want me to. (laughs)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He wrote Prabhupāda, "Your blessings..."

Rādhā-vallabha: I saw the letter.

Prabhupāda: "...to find out better guru."

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa-bhakti nitya-siddha. This propensity is there already. We are simply awakening. That's all.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I found that in India, though, there are some people like that, but they are not as arrogant as... They are a little...

Prabhupāda: Because background is Kṛṣṇa conscious. Sukṛtina. Sukṛtina. They're not so sinful. In India they're not so sinful as the Western. Sukṛtina. Catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ janāḥ sukṛtinaḥ arjuna. And in the Western countries they are simply acting sinfully. Now Kīrtanānanda was prosecuted because he is not killing cows.

Devotee: He's not what?

Hari-śauri: Not killing his cows.

Brahmānanda: By having them grow old, they were saying that "This is cruelty. You should kill them."

Prabhupāda: This is their civilization, that "You are not killing? You are cruel." (laughs) Just see. Christ said, "Thou shall not kill." That is cruel. How can you pull on this civilization? But this is their religion. So what kind of persons they are?

Room Conversation -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. There is.

Hṛdayānanda: All around the world now people, by Prabhupāda's work, can at least recognize Kṛṣṇa. In all the Western countries, whenever we show a book with Kṛṣṇa's picture, everyone says, "Well, this is Hare Kṛṣṇa." Now everyone knows Kṛṣṇa's form.

Prabhupāda: When the books fair opened?

Gargamuni: It opened on Friday.

Prabhupāda: No, is there any time, every day?

Gargamuni: Yes. It starts... They open at one, but everyone comes around four-thirty, five, up through nine. So we get about five hours. In five hours we sold 850 books.

Prabhupāda: Electric? Electricity they supply?

Gargamuni: Yes. They had a loudspeaker next to our stall. So this was hindering the film. And the manager, they wouldn't turn it down, you know, because so many people were being attracted, they wanted to stop us, so I gave some small bribe and made a man climb up and take it down, and now it's all right. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: This is called how to do business, (laughter) natural instinct from his father.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That I have heard it. Maybe in the Bhāgavata. Such a nice thing. Alone in this world I am struggling, and the so-called intelligent persons, they will not come. They have business. Why? If it is actually beneficial to the human society, why I should alone try? I will go on trying so long I'll live. There will be no checking of... But what kind of intelligent persons there are? (Govindam record in background) It has been approved by intelligent men like... From our section. Most wretched rogues. They do work. They are not so. They are intelligent. They have rejected all these "Lord" ideas and the... Because they have sinned, all humbug. Especially in the Western countries, in the Christian world, what is there? It is bogus. I have condemned it. You have seen that book? One Christian boy inquired. Have you got the copy? Bring. (pause) We shall go on playing govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam aham. People may hear or not hear. We don't mind.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This is gotra.

Dr. Sharma: Yes. They maintain a pedigree chart of Alsation dogs and Pomeranian dogs in their houses.

Prabhupāda: Our this gotra...

Guest (2): Not the human being they don't keep it. It is only the dogs they keep in Western countries.

Prabhupāda: Dogs?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He is saying that just like with breeding of dogs or any animals, they keep a pedigree chart: "Here is the father, here is the father," pedigree. But with human beings they don't bother to do this. With the animals they are doing. Just like with our cows...

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say animal civilization. It is animal civilization. They are interested with animals.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I have got it, but I think it is... He has used.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He is using. Yeah, I don't use... Sannyāsī...

Prabhupāda: No, eau de cologne is good.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He may be using.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In the Western countries, they use, everyone.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah. So Gargamuni did pretty well with those standing orders. No sooner... He says that actually you knew that it was going to happen, so you wanted him to get some glory, so you arranged like that.

Prabhupāda: Everyone engaged in some particular department, he must improve and... Then things will go on nice. Upendra is very neat.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is a...

Jayatīrtha: In every home you're staying.

Prabhupāda: The Deity worship and Indian real culture you develop. That is our contribution. Nobody could do before me, in the Western countries, introduction of this Deity worship, śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā **, and large-scale distribution of Indian cultural traditions. This is a new contribution. Not bug-bhak(?). The Indians are realizing. All these rascal swamis, "bug-bhak,"(?) professional... Here there is Śyāmabhāi?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here there is...?

Prabhupāda: Śyāmabhāi.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śyāmabhāi, yes, Surao Sharma(?).

Prabhupāda: She is always in London, constantly.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In London.

Prabhupāda: But not a single disciple.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And they are useless here, waste of time. Neither I wanted to go to London. "New York I shall go."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anyone else would have gone to London.

Prabhupāda: Yes, to go to the Western countries means to go to England. I didn't like that. I thought, "I shall go to New York."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very modern thinking, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa has arranged.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Everybody's attracted to go to the States nowadays. Even I was attracted. When I had a choice to go any place in the world 'cause I got a scholarship from Indian government, a Western scholarship. I could study in any part of the world, and I could choose any school I liked. And I told the interview board in Delhi... There was a man from England at that time. I told him that "I don't want to go to England." (Prabhupāda laughs) So he was little offended.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And I requested him whether he's interested in this type of conference. And I also started talking about evolution. So he told me that it's already proven that life comes from chemicals. Then I told him that "How do you know?" He told me what he had understood, but he couldn't tell anything. And I told him that "These are all stories. So you think that whatever knowledge is coming from the West, the Western countries, the United States, is the ultimate. It's written in books, and you never think what is written in the Gītā, in Bhagavad-gītā." He's also a brāhmaṇa. He's a tri-vedi. So I started telling that "These are all fairy tale stories, and we'd like to prove that whatever science knows so far, it's all wrong." So he was very interested in what I said, (Prabhupāda chuckles) and he said that he's very interested to take part in our conference, and he's coming. So they can bring many scientists from Agra to participate in the conference. So...

Girirāja: Is there many of them?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. And I also started telling him little bit about what the significance of this conference will be. (describes own preaching activities and plans for scientific conference for some time) And I requested him to participate in this program and... It will be very meaningful as a normal...

Prabhupāda: So you are listing all the men who will participate?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. I'm going to have all the... I'm leaving tomorrow in the morning, and I'm leaving for Bombay. From there I'm leaving to the States on Friday morning.

Prabhupāda: I want to give you the best place in Bombay.

Morning Conversation -- June 23, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And everyone is what?

Prabhupāda: Hippie. The result is hippie. In Western countries I see and lament. So many percent of their population are hippies. What is the benefit? They cannot do anything, useless population. They cannot utilize. And in America the Vietnam was selected—"Let them die," in disappointment. Useless waste of... They require... Could not manage. "Let them die." Marawara gar leka.(?) When we have finished all sorts of condemnation, we say, "You die." That's all. Tell them. They have no idea how to reform this degraded population. This is the only way, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. In New York I have seen in ordinary places how niggardly they live. No human being can live like that. In good places, nicely dressed, nicely... But in East... East Village or something?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, in the East Village.

Prabhupāda: No gentleman can live. So niggardly. The shops, the neighborhood, the area, all...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's where you went to begin the movement.

Prabhupāda: No, no, I did not select that. Unknowingly I was thrown. I did not know which quarter is good way.

Talk About Varnasrama, S.B. 2.1.1-5 -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: As soon as they allow young girl to mix with young boys—finished.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This coeducation is very bad.

Prabhupāda: And in the Western countries it is openly allowed, dating. "Please learn this art." (pause) And if you keep woman chaste, then nice children will come, no hippies.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, just like that boy, Dapni, Dapni's(?) grandson. Nice boy.

Prabhupāda: That's it. And if nice children are there in the society, they will become responsible men. Then there will be no disturbance in the society. Everything will go on smoothly. Brāhmaṇa is acting as brāhmaṇa; kṣatriya is acting as... They are both... No quarrel. No animosity. Everyone is cooperating with one another. The whole society becomes peaceful. Family becomes peaceful. The man personally becomes peaceful. Then he will be able to make progress. Kutaḥ śānti ayuktasya. If you are not peaceful, how you can attain? Or if you are not a devotee, you cannot be peaceful. Or if you are not peaceful, you cannot become devotee. But if you can become devotee, you become peaceful. So I have studied practically. Vedic way of simple life is the best. And unless you adopt the Vedic way of simple life, you'll be implicated, material desires. There is no end. The Western civilization, they are after sense gratification, but there is no limit where it will end. The psychology is that everything new.

Conversations -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Switzerland.

Śatadhanya: Switzerland, yeah. They say they are the most liberal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Therefore it's easy to see why your Guru Mahārāja said that this world is not a fit place for a gentleman.

Prabhupāda: As I told you last time, in the Western countries, so long I am in the temple, I am safe. And as soon as I go out of the temple, it is hell. And implica..., as they are attached. How they are doing?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's one thing I noticed when I came to India. I felt, only in India, it's the only place that I could go out of the temple, and still I felt it wasn't so hellish. I actually felt like that. You know, just like when we were living in Kamal Nagar in Delhi. There were many karmīs around, but still... Most of them... Many were vegetarians. Many, I could hear pūjā.

Prabhupāda: No, there is some practical life.

Conversation about Old Days in Calcutta -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Fish. Fish as well. Fish also like that. You haven't got to maintain. They'll grow.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But then, if you cut the chicken's throat, then one day you have to have your throat cut.

Prabhupāda: That is not in the lawbook.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's not a very good...

Prabhupāda: Karma-bandhana. Yajñārthe karmaṇaḥ anyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). And Western countries regularly cultivate chicken producing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah, there's a...

Prabhupāda: Big, big chicken within very short time.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Big business. And unfortunately with beef also.

Prabhupāda: That is their staple food, chicken and beef and wine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't think in Vṛndāvana there's so much of this meat-eating.

Prabhupāda: No. Here they eat meat very secretive, some.

Room Conversation during lunchtime -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: You must be drunkard, you must be woman-hunter, and you must be intoxicated. And that is not... A meat-eater. That is the whole world, going on. Not only in this planet, in upper planets. I have discussed this point in Bhāgavata. The modern economics, earning money very cheaply, has forced men to become drunkard, woman-hunters and meat-eater. But what he'll do with the money? He has no higher idea. You must utilize the money which you have got so cheaply. And in the Western countries, if you have a little business plan, you can sell any damn nonsense things and get money. Is it not? Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes

Upendra: They sell...

Prabhupāda: No, I know that, that... What is that? Spectacle cleaner. It is ordinary tissue paper, and they advertise in such a way, getting money. Make any soda bicarb and advertise it as very good tonic.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, they sell everything.

Prabhupāda: And they know the art.

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Diametrically opposed.

Prabhupāda: Hā hanta hanta viṣa-bhakṣaṇato 'pi. "You are after woman? It is more dangerous than drinking poison." Who will accept? And Western country—"Oh, without young woman, what is life?" Madhudviṣa became victimized by woman. So he became so ashamed that he left, that "My career is finished now." He's conscious.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He is...?

Prabhupāda: Conscious that "I have been victimized by woman, a sannyāsī. So my career in this institution finished." He knows that. "Nobody will take me seriously." Therefore he left his daṇḍa, went away. Good son, another, but he cannot. Therefore several times I called him; he did not come, that "My career is finished." This consciousness, where you'll find? And here, even a man is fallen, he's also conscious, "How much I am fallen." (break) ...is that when a person is fallen, he is conscious that "I am fallen." (break) It was beaten. (pause) (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "You told us about three years ago when we first reported some of our success to you that this was only a beginning. Little did we know at that time how much truth was in this declaration. Now we are literally seeing your fame being spread all over the three worlds."

Prabhupāda: Slow.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: How people were happy in those days. A small income, they were satisfied. Nowadays they simply want money. Nobody was unhappy even if he had very small income. He would adjust, and develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. These things we have seen. I have seen that even the maidservant, what to speak of gentlemen. Where those days gone? And nobody was hungry. What is this nonsense civilization? Simply want of money and unsatisfied in every step. Especially in the Western countries they're becoming hippie. Why? The training is different.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now we are being given a new training by you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We've become happy. Actually, apart from the devotees, there are no happy people in the whole world.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Room Conversation -- August 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They know that we are the only enemy against their movement. Let me...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A letter has come from Haridāsa. In Bombay, your disciple, Haridāsa Brahmacārī? (break)

Prabhupāda: ...by good association. This is the result of our movement. (break) (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhakti-caru? Should I call for him?

Prabhupāda: Hmm... Such nice color display, and there is no brain. The animal-killer civilization, Western country, has killed all their brain, good sense, good sentiment, everything.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gone.

Prabhupāda: Rotten.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's a wonder how they take so many of Your Divine Grace's books.

Prabhupāda: No, they have got the capacity. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). It has to be awakened by process. They've lost everything, but it can be revived.

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think we'll give you another report later on. It's successful. That's a fact. Only these are suggestions how it can be improved. We'll speak with Svarūpa Dāmodara about it. (break) ...from the devotees in France, Bhagavān's zone. In fact, it's a four-page telegram. Should I read it? It says, "Dear Śrīla Prabhupāda, please accept our most humble obeisances at your lotus feet. Knowing how dear your book distribution is to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda, the devotees in France would like to humbly offer you the results of our week-long marathon saṅkīrtana, hoping in some way to please you." Śrīla Prabhupāda? The devotees there, they went out on book distribution for twelve hours every day. All the devotees. They went out every day for seven days in a row, for twelve hours each day. And here is the results of their distribution. This is only for this one temple in France. It says, "We have distributed 25,061 hard-cover Bhagavad-gītās in one week." Twenty-five thousand, Śrīla Prabhupāda. We usually print of a Bhāgavatam 20,000 for the whole society. They distributed 25,000 Gītās in one week in French, Bhagavad-gītās in French. He says, "...to the conditioned souls of this country in seven days. We hope that these results are the biggest in the history of your movement and that they will give you some solace. Our top distributor were Bhakta Richard..." (laughter) Somebody who isn't initiated yet. "...who distributed 1,504 big books in one week." Every day he distributed over two hundred hard-cover books. That's pretty good. (laughter) That means he did about say 240 in twelve hours. He distributed about one book every three minutes for twelve hours in a row, Śrīla Prabhupāda, every day. "Jagad-vaśī dāsa, who distributed 1,125 big books; Ariṣṭa-nāśana dāsa, 864 books; Veśa-kīrti dāsa, 851 big books; Akhileśvara dāsa 835 big books; Kṛpā-siddha dāsa, 760 big books." Then they say, "Thank you for allowing us to assist you in preaching this message of Lord Caitanya in the Western countries. All glories to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Your humble servants, the devotees in France." Pretty big distribution. Bhagavān estimates that they collected over sixty thousand dollars in one week. It's amazing. Seems like Kṛṣṇa is giving unlimited facilities to spread His glories, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We do not want liberation. We want to serve the purpose of the Gosvāmīs, in association with pure devotees. To stop birth and death is not our purpose. Tāṅdera caraṇa-sebi-bhakta-sane bās, janame janame hoy ei abhilāṣ.

Room Conversation With Bharadvaja -- October 16, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: These things can be exhibited. That's all right.

Bharadvāja: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So you have made the outline first class. Now, if it is carefully done, at least in the Western country, it will be a very, very wonderful thing.

Bharadvāja: We're just trying to fulfill your desires, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Do it. Kṛṣṇa will fulfill.

Bharadvāja: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Long time ago, you wanted an exhibit in London. It seemed very important to you.

Prabhupāda: Yes, London there is good place. Many visitors come.

Bharadvāja: We have been considering where is the best place for this next big exhibit.

Prabhupāda: London, it is...

Bharadvāja: That would be better than Washington?

Prabhupāda: No, Washington, it is also... London, there are many hundreds of tourists daily come.

Jayatīrtha: Right now there's a place available, a lot one block from Madame Tusseaud's in London. We thought that to be in the same area might be a good thing, because so many people are coming to that place.

Prabhupāda: Yes, in the center of the city.

Page Title:Western countries (Conversations 1976 - 1977)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:17 of Mar, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=117, Let=0
No. of Quotes:117