Prabhupāda: Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that na dhanaṁ na janaṁ na sundarīṁ kavitāṁ vā jagad-īśa kāmaye (CC Antya 20.29, Śikṣāṣṭaka 4): "I don't want this." "Don't want, don't want, don't want" does not mean he becomes negative. "I want Kṛṣṇa. So many things 'Don't want,' but actually I want Kṛṣṇa. And that is my life." And not that "Don't want, don't want, don't want, then become zero." Not that.
Yogeśvara: No, they also say, "We know what we want. We want food for everyone, we want..."
Prabhupāda: No, no, he does not know. Therefore he is changing from this place to that place. He does not know. If he had known, then he would have surrendered immediately to Kṛṣṇa. That is the defect. He does not know.
Yogeśvara: But the idea is, "We can accomplish the same good results even without Kṛṣṇa."
Prabhupāda: That he does not know. He is a fool. He does not know what is a good result. He will change again. He is a rascal. He is putting himself in this condition; again he'll desire another condition. That is the change of body. That is his wanting. Sometimes he's taking the body of a dog, sometimes he is taking the body of a demigod. Bhramatam upary adhaḥ (1.5.18). Down, just like, what is that? Merry-go-round.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Ferris wheel, ferris wheel goes up and down.
Prabhupāda: Sometimes "I am so up," and again come down. This is going on. Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān. Therefore, in this way, going round, one who is very, very fortunate, he, guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151), he comes to the devotional life by the mercy of guru and Kṛṣṇa. This is the beginning of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction. They are under the myth, under the spell of māyā. This is going on.
Yogeśvara: Well, they say "You are distributing food, and we are also distributing food. You are opening schools, and we are also opening schools."
Prabhupāda: Yes. But we are opening school for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore the rascals, they cannot understand what is bhakti and what is karma. Bhakti looks like karma, but it's not karma. It is bhakti. They cannot understand what is bhakti. Bhakti means the same karma, but for Kṛṣṇa's sake. That is bhakti. Just like the same fight, battlefield, but because it was done for Kṛṣṇa, Arjuna is accepted, bhakto 'si priyo 'si me: (BG 4.3) "You are My devotee. You are My very dear." But what did he do? His business was to fight. He fought, that's all. But fought for Kṛṣṇa. That is the secret. He did not change his fighting capacity as a warrior. But he changed his mentality. His mentality was that "Why shall I kill my kinsmen?" But Kṛṣṇa wanted, "Oh, that's all right." So therefore service is for Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Not for his sense gratification. Karmī means sense gratification, and bhakta means Kṛṣṇa's sense gratification. That is the difference. Sense gratification is there. When you do it for your personal sense grati..., it is karma. And you do it for Kṛṣṇa's sense gratification, it is bhakti. So therefore they look similar, but the quality is different. Harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). Dhare prema nāma. The gopīs, they acted like prostitutes, but the center was Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommends, ramyā kacid upāsanā vrajavadhu-vargena ya kalpita (?): "Oh there is no more better mode of worship than it was conceived by the gopīs." What is their conception? Prostitution, that's all. Simple prostitute. Kṛṣṇa was a beautiful boy and they were attracted by the beauty of Kṛṣṇa. They wanted Him as their husband, lover, to dance with them. That is the gopīs. And these rascals are taking that "This is very good. Kṛṣṇa also did like this. So let us do; gather some girls and dance, and we become Kṛṣṇa." This is Māyāvāda, Therefore Vyāsadeva has devoted nine cantos just to understand Kṛṣṇa. Then try to understand what is the gopīs' behavior with Kṛṣṇa. But these rascals jump over it. Sahajiyās. Jump over Kṛṣṇa's dealing with the gopīs. And that is Bhāgavata. Because rascals, they shall remain rascal.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: If the Māyāvādī accepts the principle that bhakti is good, but at the end he throws it away, will he have a change of heart?
Prabhupāda: That is Māyāvāda. That is Māyāvāda. They have no conception of the eternity of bhakti. That is Māyāvāda.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Will the change in heart come about for such persons because they're somehow associated with Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Just like Kaṁsa associated with Kṛṣṇa always, their position is like that. That is not bhakti. Bhakti is ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167), favorable, not to reject Kṛṣṇa or kill Kṛṣṇa, and think of Kṛṣṇa, "How to kill Him? How to kill Him? How to kill Him?" That is also Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but that is not favorable. Therefore it is not bhakti. But they get the salvation because they have some way or other thought of Kṛṣṇa. Impersonal salvation. They are not allowed to enter into the pastimes of Kṛṣṇa.
Satsvarūpa: In the beginning of devotional service, the concentration is on the service more than on Kṛṣṇa the person.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Satsvarūpa: But then gradually, as we serve and serve and concentrate on the service, then there's realization.
Prabhupāda: Yes, realization comes.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Of who we're serving.
Prabhupāda: The disciple serves Kṛṣṇa under the direction of spiritual master. Vidhi-mārga, regulative principles. Vidhi-mārga, rāga-mārga. (break) ...gunarna jata nat krta mukha santi (?). So, I think it is mud.
Satsvarūpa: Here it's getting more and more moist, dew. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...friend, but what is my business? My business is to serve the senses, that's all. Kāmādīnām, kāma, krodha, lobha, moha, mātsarya, mada, the six kinds of sense gratification I am doing. This is actual... Just like this man, he is thinking he is very big man, but he's servant of his dog. Is it not? But he is thinking that he is very big man. He does not think that "What is my business? To serve this dog in the morning." He has no sense. Because he has no prescribed duty to serve Kṛṣṇa... He must serve, and therefore he must serve dog. That is his position. But still, he's thinking, "Why these foolish people are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa? I am serving the dog. I am very big man."