Prabhupāda: The practical example is there. In everywhere they are coming to the temple. So in England there is opposition.
Jayatīrtha: Not really. There's none of this deprogramming or any trouble like that. People are pretty peaceful. We have a pretty good reputation. The government doesn't oppose us.
Prabhupāda: They oppose our Ratha-yātrā.
Jayatīrtha: Our Ratha-yātrā, yes. I don't think they'll ever stop opposing. This year when I went to the Ratha-yātrā, when we had the Ratha-yātrā, I saw that their feeling is so strong about it I don't think they'll ever let us have a good cart on that route. I wish they would, but I don't think they will. They told us that they only way they'll let us have a big car is if we change the route. So actually that's one thing I wanted to discuss with you while I was here, whether... If we had the Ratha-yātrā in the Indian district, like Wembley...
Prabhupāda: No.
Jayatīrtha: Then we could have a big cart.
Prabhupāda: No.
Jayatīrtha: Otherwise not.
Prabhupāda: That is not...
Jayatīrtha: The trouble is, with a small cart, people are not very attracted to the Ratha-yātrā.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Jayatīrtha: With a small cart there's nothing so exciting about the Ratha-yātrā that people will come for miles, at least English people. They won't come just to see this small cart. In San Francisco these three huge carts makes it so exciting and colorful that people come just to see the carts.
Prabhupāda: They will not allow.
Jayatīrtha: No. I don't think so. It's a safety thing, they say. The street is such... And they won't stop the traffic, so the traffic is still going on.
Brahmānanda: Has there been any accident on the previous ones?
Jayatīrtha: Well, that argument won't work on the British bureaucracy. There hasn't been any accident in the past, nor in the future there will be any accident. They... Simply they don't want a big cart.
Prabhupāda: But Wembley quarter is not good.
Jayatīrtha: No, that quarter is not so good. There may be other quarters where they'd do it, but...
Hṛdayānanda: New Dvārakā comes down to(?) San Francisco.
Prabhupāda: We can make another Ratha-yātrā from Bhaktivedanta Manor to Wembley and other places.
Jayatīrtha: Hm. Actually we were thinking to have... If we kept a small cart and had Ratha-yātrās, one in London, one in around Birmingham area, there's a lot of Hindus in that area that will come. One in the north around...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayatīrtha: ...Liverpool-Manchester area.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That will be nice. Take the Ratha-yātrā along—we have this bus program—do publicity with the bus program, and then, at the end of the month, have a Ratha-yātrā somewhere in the city. I think if we keep the small cart, do at least three Ratha-yātrās this summer... Our big car is there?
Jayatīrtha: It's still standing.
Prabhupāda: So that we can move? No, that will not be possible.
Jayatīrtha: No.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Could you do big ones in other places?
Jayatīrtha: It may be. We have to investigate.
Hṛdayānanda: There's no place in London where you can do big carts?
Jayatīrtha: It depends. In the Hindu quarters I don't think they could stop us. But in other quarters they would.
Prabhupāda: The Watsford area there are many Hindus.
Jayatīrtha: Few in Watsford. Mostly down by Wembley, which is not very far from Watsford. It's only three stops on the tube. I think they may let us do a big cart there. And in other cities they may also. We just came to this idea recently to do them in other cities, because especially in the Mid... It's called the Midlands. There is Leicester and Coventry and many cities with many Hindus there. And those people up in those cities, sometimes they're more pious than the London Hindus. They're very... One of our life membership makers in the north made twenty-four members in two weeks.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Jayatīrtha: In the north they're very active there, and they're very anxious for some interest by us for them. Anyway, at least we could have three smaller Ratha-yātrās this year in different places.
Prabhupāda: Simply by Ratha-yātrā, you can attract many people. So still we are going to that Trafalgar Square?
Jayatīrtha: Yes. It's hard, though.
Prabhupāda: The crowd is the same? No. Diminished.
Jayatīrtha: Well, the crowd that's in Trafalgar Square is mostly there already. That's the thing, because there's always people in Trafalgar Square. So when the Ratha-yātrā comes they stay and they make benefit by ajñāta-sukṛti. But the number of people that are out in the parade is not very great. I've been thinking how it can be increased, because they keep us in one small lane about as wide as this room along this road, and they make you have this small cart, and the people are spread out for so long. A lot of Hindus come, but sometimes they are so far away from the cart it's hard to keep the kīrtana very nice, so they can't see the Deities. And after being in San Francisco for so many years at the Ratha-yātrā, I didn't feel so enthusiastic. That San Francisco festival is so elevated, so wonderful. Therefore I was thinking that if we could move it...
Hṛdayānanda: (indistinct)
Jayatīrtha: Not in the same way.
Pañcadraviḍa: Do we use like a marching band in the Ratha-yātrā? If we used a marching band, a lot of people come, like a parade, like they use in the parades with trumpets and drums and all these things.
Prabhupāda: I think you can introduce in Africa also. (laughter)