Prabhupāda: So St. Paul, he is a sādhu. So our process is that sādhu, guru, śāstra. We have to accept everything through saintly persons, confirmed by the scripture, and described or explained by guru. Then it is perfect. The scriptures are already there, and we have to see how the scriptures are being followed by saintly persons. And if there is any difficulties, they should be explained by the spiritual master. Then it is confirmed: sādhu-śāstra-guru vākya (cittete koriyā aikya). Scriptures you cannot understand directly. Then you have to see how the scriptural injunctions are being followed by saintly persons. Even if you cannot understand, then the spiritual master will explain to you.
Śyāmasundara: And he sees also in the same way two types of religion. He sees the static religion and calls this... Static religion: myths devised by human intelligence as a means of defense against the depressing experiences of life. He says that being fearful of the future, man attempts to combat his fate by constructing religious myths. (break) ...mythology...
Prabhupāda: Well, that I have already answered. Anything manufactured by man, that is not religion. That is not religion. That I have already answered. Religion is not manufactured, but it is given by God. That is our point, that God is giving religion, "Here is religion: surrender unto Me." So any religious system may be different in method, but ultimately if it comes to this point, (surrendering to God), then it is religion. Otherwise it is not religion; reject it.
Śyāmasundara: He says that prompted by this vital impulse, the human will identifies with the divine will in a mystical union...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: ... and that this is real religion.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are teaching people that you agree with the divine will. The divine will is that you surrender. So you agree to surrender. That we are teaching. That is real religion.
Śyāmasundara: He says that real religion is a mystic oneness with God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Oneness means that I agree with God. God says that "You surrender," I say, "Yes, I surrender." God says to Arjuna, "You fight," he fights. That is oneness. That we have no disagreement, in any point, with God, that is oneness. Just like in this institution, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When I say anything, there is no disagreement of any of the disciples. It is being done, taking God's representative, Kṛṣṇa's representative, so similarly with God also. But what I am doing? I am simply taking the order from God, and I am disseminating the same knowledge. I have accepted surrender unto Kṛṣṇa as my life. I am teaching others, "You also surrender." This is called disciplic succession. There is no disagreement with God. It is not that I am... (break) Yes. That means one who is God conscious, he is a mystic.
Śyāmasundara: But the modern interpretation of the word mystic is something different. People take mystic to mean someone who is very mysterious and magic.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It has come to that. God consciousness... Just like at the present moment if a guru can show some miracles, just like that Sai Baba, so they accept. That's a mystic.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. That's the modern meaning of mystic.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Although it may be rascaldom, false, still if they see like that, miracles... That means less intelligent class of men. They want to see some miracles. That is mysticism.
Śyāmasundara: And he says that God means love. And the creative..., thus the creative... Through creative love the world came into being, and the world is a manifestation of God's love.
Prabhupāda: Yes. God loves. Because, unless He loves, why does He come personally? Why He gives instructions through the scriptures? (break) (end)