Yes. This is very important point. The atheist class men, they say, "Can you show me God?" There are statements of atheist class, or sannyāsī even, that he demanded his spiritual master "Whether you can show me God?" So God cannot be seen by such demand. In the śāstras it is said, ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ (CC Madhya 17.136). Śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi. Śrī Kṛṣṇa is present by His name, by His form, by His pastimes, by His paraphernalia, by His qualities. Anything about Kṛṣṇa is non-different. Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's name, it is the same. There is no difference. In the materialistic view, there is difference between the substance and the name. Just like water. If you are thirsty, simply if I chant, "Water, water, water," it will not quench your thirst. You require the substance, water. So similarly, a, a person's photograph or a statue is different from the person. If there is a photograph of a certain gentleman and if you want to do business with the photograph, it is not possible. You'll have to seek for the actual person. But in case of Kṛṣṇa, it is not like that. Kṛṣṇa, the person, and Kṛṣṇa's name, Hare Kṛṣṇa, the same thing. It is not that we are chanting "Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa" and this Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is different. No. Nāma rūpe kṛṣṇa avatāra. The name of Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa, the person, identical.
View (Lectures, Other)
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Lectures
Nectar of Devotion Lectures
Prākṛta-bhakta means he's situated on the material platform, but under the direction of spiritual master, under the direction of the śāstras, he's trying to improve his condition of material existence. That is called prākṛta-bhakta, sa bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ.
So we should not remain perpetually a prākṛta bhakta. We must improve, madhyama-bhakta. Madhyama-bhakta means he knows what is God, what is Kṛṣṇa. He knows what is Kṛṣṇa's devotee. He knows the people in general, and he knows the atheistic persons. Four categories of persons manifest before him. It is not that the... Artificially, if we say that "In my view, everyone is the same..." That is, of course, higher stage. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). But we should not imitate that stage. Because we are in the neophyte stage, we should not imitate the vision of mahā-bhāgavata. Mahā-bhāgavata does not see anyone nondevotee. He sees everyone better devotee than himself. Just like Kṛṣṇadāsa Kavirāja Gosvāmī. He writes in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta:
- jagāi mādhāi haite muñi se pāpiṣṭha
- purīṣera kīṭa muñi se lagiṣṭha
So he's not pretending. Actually, a mahā-bhāga, bhāgavata, thinks like that, that "I am the lowest." But he's the highest. One who thinks like that, humble...
So everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram: (BG 5.29) "I am the supreme proprietor, Mahā-īśvara." Mahā īśaṁ parameśvaram. So everyone, īśvara, but nobody is Mahā-īśvara or Parameśvara. Mahā-īśvara is Kṛṣṇa. Sarva-loka-maheśvaram. Mahā-īśvara. Mahā means the great. So everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. This is unknown to the nondevotees. The karmīs also do not know. The karmīs think that the resources of the world, that is given by nature for our enjoyment. This is the modern theory of economic development. Everyone is thinking like that, that by nature we have got the gold mine, so we shall take it and use it and enjoy. This is karmī's view. And... But there are many karmīs. Everyone is... Just like what is that land where there is too much gold, in South America?
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
The trees, the plants and the aquatics, for many, many years they are in the water. The flies and insects, for many, many years they are in that condition. And gradually, by evolution, we come to this form of human life. Especially the Aryans, the advanced, civilized human being, he has got all the facilities. The uncivilized men live in the jungle, and they cannot utilize the resources. (people making noise) Ask them to stop. Somebody must remain there.
So therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura, in very simple Bengali song, he says, hari hari biphale janama goṅāinu. This is our life. We have got this human form of life, but we are simply spoiling it. This is the whole situation. In our this movement we are traveling all over the world, and according to our views, how they are spoiling their very valuable human life in false identification that "I am this body," everyone, in big, big names, "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am German," "I am...," and they are spoiling their life under this bodily concept of life. According to śāstra, anyone who is identifying himself, this body... That is the first instruction of the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa brought Arjuna to fight with the Kurus, and he identified himself as this body, and therefore he thought, "Killing of my cousin-brothers, it will not be good because I have got bodily relation." So to dissipate this conception of life—that is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā—Kṛṣṇa chastised him, Arjuna, aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase (BG 2.11). We are talking very, very big, big talks and plans, but actually we are nothing better than cats and dogs. This is our position because we are identifying with this body. "My country, my community, my society, my family, my..." Ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8). Jīvasya moho ayam ahaṁ mameti. They do not know. This is the ignorance, basic ignorance. "I" and "my." "I am this body, and anything in relationship with the body is mine." This is ignorance. But this ignorance is going on all over the world. That's a fact, this ignorance.
We should pray to Rūpa Gosvāmī for his blessings so that we can understand what is the actual position of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is the most merciful incarnation to bestow upon us Kṛṣṇa-prema. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī understood it, Śrīla Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya understood it, and we should take their viewpoint of view, what they have studied about Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī says... In the beginning Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu was appreciated by Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī as mahā-vadānyāvatāra. There are many incarnations of Kṛṣṇa, keśava dhṛta-mīna-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare, keśava dhṛta-nṛsiṁha-rūpa jaya jagadīśa..., many incarnations. But this incarnation, Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, is anarpita-carīṁ cirāt. The mercy of this incarnation is unlimited. It was never given before. That is Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mercy. He distributed the most confidential part of love of Godhead. Although we are living in this fallen age, Kali-yuga, but He is giving the topmost platform of loving Kṛṣṇa. Anarpita-carīṁ cirāt. Therefore He is supposed to be the most munificent incarnation. Namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te (CC Madhya 19.53). He is giving directly Kṛṣṇa-prema.
And here is also, Caitanya-caritāmṛta kaja, Kavirāja Gosvāmī, says, advitīya: no competitor, sir. Here we are all gods, the rascaldom, that "Everyone is God." But there is competition of Gods. But in case of Kṛṣṇa there is no such possibility, no competition. Nobody can compete with Kṛṣṇa. When Kṛṣṇa was present He showed it by practical example. Nobody could compete Him in either knowledge, either strength or love affairs or any field of activities. There was no competition.
Now, Kṛṣṇa, when He was present, He married sixteen thousand wives. Where is competition? One cannot marry even sixteen wives—and he becomes God. Just see the foolishness. Even from materialistic view, who is that god who can marry sixteen thousand wives? Is there any god, so-called rascal god? Is there any possibility? Kṛṣṇa showed, yes. Kṛṣṇa was attempted to be killed from the very childhood when He was three months old by Pūtanā. But He killed the Pūtanā rakṣasī, not He was killed. Similarly, Aghāsura, Bakāsura, this asura, that asura, simply from the beginning of His life, Kaṁsa and others, from the rogues, the asuras, they were making plan to kill Kṛṣṇa as soon as He is born. Kaṁsa, he was planning that "As soon as Kṛṣṇa is born..." He was trying to kill Kṛṣṇa's Mother Devakī, but with argument of Vasudeva that "Don't do this. Your sister's son will kill you, but your sister will not kill you, so let the son be born. I shall bring it to you," Kaṁsa believed the honorable words of Vasudeva. Because he knew that "Vasudeva is very respectable, honorable man. He has promised the children, the child, will be brought to me," so he saved his sister. He was such a cruel. The rogues and cruel, they do not care even for mother and sister. They can kill anyone, you see. That is the roguism. So Kaṁsa was that type of rogue. But Vasudeva, by his intelligence, saved the situation, but as honorable person, he brought all the children to Kaṁsa. You know this history.
The reason is that Vedānta philosophy, because the Māyāvādī sannyāsīns... The Vedānta philosophy actually belongs to the Vaiṣṇava sampradāya because it was compiled by Vyāsadeva, who is the original spiritual master of this Vaiṣṇava sampradāya. Of course, the Māyāvādī philosophers, they also accept Vyāsadeva as their original spiritual master, but they have interpreted Vyāsadeva's views; therefore they are not considered to be bona fide disciples. Just like you'll see in the Bhagavad-gītā that Arjuna, in the beginning he was arguing with Kṛṣṇa, between friend and friend, but when he surrendered himself as student, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam... (BG 2.7). He said, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, now I am surrendering unto You. I accept You as my spiritual master." Śiṣyas te aham: "I am Your disciple, not friend." Because friendly talks, arguments, there is no end. But when there is talk between spiritual master and disciple, there is no argument. No argument. As soon as the spiritual master says, "This is to be done," it is to be done. That's all, final. So you'll find, throughout the whole instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, not that blindly. There is submissive presentation, "Kṛṣṇa, I cannot understand this." That is allowed. But it is not that you have to change the decision of the spiritual master. No. If you cannot understand, it is..., you should know it that "Due to my less intelligence, I just now do not understand what the spiritual master said, but that is already concluded. But I may try to understand so that I may not be misleading." That is the position. So just see. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that "My Guru Mahārāja saw Me a rascal, fool. Therefore he asked Me, 'You don't touch Vedānta-sūtra. It is not for You. You simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.' "
Just like a fire situated in one place distributing unlimitedly, or limitedly, its heats and energies, heats and light, similarly, whatever we are experiencing within our views in this material world, they are simply manifestation of the energy of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is also confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagat avyakta-mūrtinā: (BG 9.4) "I am all-pervading, spreading, in this material manifestation, jagat, in impersonal feature, avyakta-mūrtinā." Everything... Avyakta means Kṛṣṇa is not manifested there, but we can feel. Just like when you see some smoke from a distant place you can immediately understand that there is fire; it is very easy. Similarly, if everything is going on nicely—the sun is rising exactly in the time; the moon is rising exactly in the time; they are illuminating; they are appearing, disappearing; everything is going on, seasonal changes—so if things are going on nicely you cannot say that these things are automatically happening. No. There is no such thing within your experience which is automatically managed. We must appreciate there is some brain behind it. Professor Einstein, the greatest scientist, he admitted that "As we are advancing in scientific research, we are coming to the conclusion that there is a very big brain behind all this."
So śāstra therefore forbids or gives warning, āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32). The same example. With great endeavor, with much expenditure you may go eighty thousand miles per hour, but unless you get shelter, you have to again come back to this, either in America or Russia. They tried, but they could not get shelter. Similarly, the one may understand that he is spirit soul and he may try his best to merge into the spiritual effulgence, Brahman—ahaṁ brahmāsmi, "I shall remain in Brahman"—but because he is person, the impersonalism condition will not be helpful to him, and because he has no personal view of the supreme spirit—he cannot surrender to Kṛṣṇa—naturally he again comes back to this material world and surrenders to the material subject matter. Sometimes he is engaged in philanthropic work or altruistic work. He thought, "This is the best service. instead of serving myself, let me serve the whole humanity, whole community, whole nation," so on, so on, so on. But they are all asad-dharma. They are not sad-dharma.
So when one is actually in sad-dharma or he is hankering after sad-dharma, then Kṛṣṇa helps him. Kṛṣṇa helps him. That we get information from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Because Kṛṣṇa is situated in everyone's heart, so Kṛṣṇa gives him opportunity. Buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi.
The duṣkṛtinaḥ, the miscreants, those who are always engaged in mischievous activities... Such persons are called duṣkṛtina. So duṣkṛtina class, na māṁ duṣkṛtina mūḍhā. Mūḍha means less intelligent or foolish class men. Na māṁ duṣkṛtina mūḍhā prapadyante. "They do not accept Me," narādhama, "the lowest of the mankind." "No, they have got very much educated." Kṛṣṇa says, māyayāpahṛta-jñānā. "Yes, they are educated, but their knowledge has been taken away by māyā." Why? Āsuri-bhāvam āśritāḥ. "Because they have taken to this view, 'There is no God.' " On this account they cannot understand in spite of high degrees of university education. Māyāyapahrta-jñāna. So Kṛṣṇa says like that. The only reason is because duṣkṛtina mūḍhā māyayāpahṛta-jñānā āsuri-bhāvam... Therefore, in spite of all evidences from the śāstras, they'll not accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Lord, Personality of Godhead. That's it. Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja requested his father so many times, but still, he did not agree that there is God. (break) But he agreed there is God when he was killed by God. Yes. That you cannot escape. Then you'll see God: "Here is God." The asuras, they'll never accept God, but when they are killed by God, they understand that "Yes, there is God." That is the difference between asuras and devas. The devas, they accept God while living, and the asuras accept God by being killed. That's all. And who can escape killing? Is there any scientist, is there any philosopher, any great man who can stop being killed by the cruel death? Is there any man? That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). "I am mṛtyu." Mṛtyu means death, which takes away everything at a time. Just like "I am very rich man," "I am very big industrialist," "I am prime minister," this, that, so many things.
One should know that this is a condemned place. Unless one is fully convinced that this is a place, condemned, one cannot make progress. If he is satisfied with this condemned condition... Just like these Bowery Street men, they are lying on the footpath. They are satisfied. Condemned condition, but they are satisfied. We should not be satisfied in that way. That is very wretched condition. So we are all in wretched condition under the grip of material nature, always suffering threefold miseries. So we should be conscious. Unless we are conscious about this fact, then our human life is spoiled. They say that you spiritualists, you are very pessimistic. Yes. He should be pessimistic. There is no question of being optimistic. Where is the optimistic view?
So unless one becomes very much pessimistic of this material world... Actually, they are, but they want to forget. Somebody is trying to forget it by liquor. Somebody is trying to forget by LSD, and somebody is marijuana, or gañja. But that forgetfulness will not save you. You have to actually forget it, that "This is a condemned place," and you cannot forget this unless you have got ideal place before you. Therefore this śruti-pramāṇa, the Vedic knowledge, will give you: "Here is your ideal place, Kṛṣṇa. Come back to Kṛṣṇa. Try for it. Try your best for this." That is the life. That is human life. And unless one is not conscious to this platform, he is defeated. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. We are born ignorant. And if we are educated more, more, more into the platform of ignorance, then our life is all defeat, parābhava. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam.
So far the forms of Kṛṣṇa are concerned, they're also unlimited. Śākhā-candra-nyāye kari dig-daraśana. So śākhā-candra-nyāye. There is a logic, śākhā-candra logic. What is that? That the sun, uh, moon, at night, is far, far away, but one is pointing out that we can see the moon through the branches of the tree. So there is a location. So through that location one can see the moon. Similarly, although kṛṣṇa-līlā and Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, Kṛṣṇa's forms, no human being can describe, still, as far as possible, Lord Caitanya says, this śākhā-candra logic: just like the branch of a tree is far away from the moon, still, one can see it by perspective view through the branches of the tree.
- ihā yei śune, paḍe, sei bhāgyavān
- kṛṣṇera svarūpa-tattvera haya kichu jñāna
Now here is Lord Caitanya's order. Whether we do understand or not understand, if we simply submissively give aural reception to these messages of Kṛṣṇa, then gradually we shall understand the whole philosophy and science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the summary. You may not understand at the present moment about the extensive constitutional position and philosophy of Kṛṣṇa. Still, if we submissively give aural reception to these messages, as it is described in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta by Lord Caitanya, that will help us—Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Caitanya-caritāmṛta. This hearing process is very nice. That is recommended by Lord Caitanya. Simply by hearing. We do not require to be very highly educated or very good scholar in Vedānta philosophy. Whatever you are, you remain in your place. That doesn't matter. Simply try to hear, and by hearing everything will be... Svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ. Because the process is that we cannot understand God or we cannot see God unless He reveals. So this revelation will come if we submissively hear. We may not understand, but simply by hearing, we can achieve that stage of life.
"So we belong to this Māyāvādī sect. Although we hear the Śārīraka-bhāṣya of Śaṅkarācārya and we say, 'Yes, yes,' but actually, it does not appeal to us."
There is the important point of Māyāvādī philosophers. Every one of them, they say that "I am God," but actually he thinks within himself that "What kind of God I am?" That is the position. But for argument's sake they will play so many things in support of their views, but actually, any sane man will think that "What kind of God I am? I cannot defend myself from the slightest attack of this material nature, and still I claim..." But they cannot admit frankly. They think like that. That is being admitted here by the chief disciple of Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, that "Although we say, 'Yes, this is...,' but it does not appeal to our mind." He is frankly saying.
- śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-vākya dṛḍha satya māni
- kali-kāle sannyāse 'saṁsāra' nāhi jini
Now he says that "What Lord Caitanya, Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya, has said, that is very nice. And we simply accept this sannyāsa order. Oh, that will not help us. Simply by accepting, changing the garment, colored garment, and without understanding anything properly or dealing properly, that is not the way for salvation." Because according to Śaṅkarācārya, anyone who accepts sannyāsa, he becomes immediately Nārāyaṇa, God. He immediately becomes God. So that is being refuted by one of the disciples, that "This is nonsense, that simply by accepting and changing the garment I become God. This is not..." Actually, one has to understand things as they are. So therefore, the explanation as given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, that is right.
Sri Isopanisad Lectures
He can surpass all restrictive regulations. This question was put to Parīkṣit Mahārāja after rasa-līlā that "Kṛṣṇa came to establish the principles of moral and religious life. How He enjoyed the company of so many young girls who were not...? They were wives of other persons. So how it is so?" So the answer was given that Kṛṣṇa cannot be contaminated. Rather, anything comes to Kṛṣṇa, even with contaminated mind, becomes purified. The same example: the sun cannot be contaminated, but anything contaminated, if you put into the sunshine, it becomes purified. So you approach Kṛṣṇa with any desire... Akāmaḥ sarva-kāmo vā (SB 2.3.10). The gopīs... Of course, that is not this material thing. Still, as young girls, they were captivated by the beauty of Kṛṣṇa. So they approached Kṛṣṇa with a view to accept Him as paramour. But actually, they became purified.
So some way or other, if we can develop our Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then immediately we become purified. That is the process. Kṛṣṇa gives chance to everyone. Just like Kaṁsa. Kaṁsa was thinking of Kṛṣṇa. He was also Kṛṣṇa conscious, always thinking of Kṛṣṇa, "Oh, how shall I find out Kṛṣṇa? I shall kill Him." That was his business. That is the asuric mentality. Āsuriṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. But he also became purified. He got salvation. The same example again: somehow or other, if you come to the sunlight, you become purified and you get warmth. Not that sun becomes contaminated by you. No. That is not possible. Sun is so powerful that even you are contaminated... You cannot contaminate the sun. Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya (SB 10.33.29). When one is very powerful, there is no contamination. Therefore here it is said, apāpa-viddhaṁ śuddham. Always purified, Kṛṣṇa. This is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā when Arjuna accepted Kṛṣṇa, paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān: "You are the supreme pure." Pavitraṁ paramam.
Ordinary people, they do not like our activities, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They are surprised. Gargamuni was telling me yesterday evening that people ask, "Where do you get so much money? You are purchasing so many cars and big church property and maintaining fifty, sixty men daily and enjoying. What is this?" (laughter) So they are surprised. And we are surprised why these rascals are working so hard simply for filling the belly. So Bhagavad-gītā says, yā niśā sarva-bhūtānāṁ tasyāṁ jāgrati saṁyamī. We are seeing that these people are sleeping, and they are seeing we are wasting our time. This is opposite view. Why? Because their line of action is different, our line of action are different. Now, it is to be decided by an intelligent man whose actions are actually right.
These things are very nicely discussed in Vedic literature. There is another... Just like this is Īśopaniṣad. Similarly, there is another Upaniṣad, Garga Upaniṣad. So that is the talk between husband and wife, very learned. The husband is teaching the wife. Etad viditvā yaḥ prayāti sa eva brāhmaṇa gargi. Etad aviditvā yaḥ prayāti sa eva kṛpanā. This real culture of knowledge, one who... Everyone takes birth and everyone will die. There is no difference of opinion about it. We shall die and they shall die. They can say that "You are thinking of birth, death, old age and disease. So do you mean to say that because you are cultivating Kṛṣṇa consciousness knowledge, you will be free from these four principles of nature's onslaught?" No. That is not the fact. The fact is, the Garga Upaniṣad says, etad viditvā yaḥ prayāti. One who quits this body after knowing what he is, sa eva brāhmaṇa, he is brāhmaṇa. Brāhmaṇa... We are offering you the sacred thread.
Festival Lectures
So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura became very much... Because a devotee cannot tolerate blaspheming another devotee or God. So as soon as he said that "Why shall I go to Jagannātha Purī to see the wooden Jagannātha? I am personally Viṣṇu," Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura immediately ordered his constables, "Arrest him. Arrest this rascal." So he was arrested. And when he was arrested... He had some yogic mystic power. All the constables, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, and his family members became affected with high fever, 105 degrees fever. So when he came back, his wife became very much disturbed that "You arrested Viṣṇu, and we are all going to die. We have got now high fever." Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura replied, "Yes, let us all die, but this rascal must be punished." This is the view of pure devotee. So he was put into the custody. And there was a date fixed for his trial, and all these days Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura himself and his family especially, they were suffering from high fever. Maybe that yogi was planning to kill the whole family. But it was going on as fever. So on the trial day, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, Kedāranātha Datta, when he came to the bench the man was presented, the so-called yogi, and he had big, big hairs. So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura ordered that "Bring one barber and cut his hair." So no barber dared. The barbers thought, "Oh, he's a Lord Viṣṇu. If I offend, as he's suffering from fever, so I shall also die." So Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura ordered that "Give me the scissor. I'll cut." So he cut his hairs and ordered him to be put into jail for six months, and in the jail that Viṣṇu incarnation managed to take some poison, and he died.
Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ. Narādhama means "lowest of the mankind." Anyone who does not accept the Supreme Personality of Godhead and does not surrender unto Him, he is considered the lowest of the mankind. It is not sectarian. It is a fact. Because the Supreme Personality of Godhead says Himself. If we say somebody that "You are the lowest of the mankind because you, you are not Kṛṣṇa conscious," it may be called sectarian view, but when the Lord, Himself, says that,
- na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
- prapadyante narādhama
- māyaya apahṛta-jñānā
- asurī-bhāvam āśritāḥ
- (BG 7.15)
Asurī-bhāvam āśritāḥ. There are two classes of men: asurī-bhāvam āśritāḥ and daivī-prakṛtim āśritāḥ. In the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find these two words. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ (BG 9.13). Those who are mahātmānas, broad-minded... Mahātmā means broad-minded. And durātmā means cripple-minded, just the opposite word. Durātmā. Dura means far away from Kṛṣṇa consciousness, dura ātmā. And mahātmā... Mahān, mahato mahīyān, Kṛṣṇa. So whose ātmā is attached to the Supreme, the great, he's called mahātmā.
Similarly, when there was Muhammadan kingdom, people learned Sanskrit, Arabian, and Persian languages. So Sanātana Gosvāmī was expert; both Rūpa Gosvāmī and Sanātana Gosvāmī were expert in three languages: Sanskrit, Arabian, and Persian. So he was not a fool. He was very learned man. From his later contributions, we can see how highly learned he was, he, how he gave references from Vedic literatures in their writings, Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, Līlā-smaraṇam and others, books.
So unless one approaches a bona fide spiritual master, his so-called knowledge has no value. māyayā apahṛta-jñānā. This atheistic view of life means he has no knowledge. Anyone who denies the existence of God, superior authority of God, he must be considered as māyayā apahṛta-jñānā, asurī-bhāvam āśritāḥ. "I was suffering in the dark well of material enjoyment, and I never knew the actual goal of my life." That is the position of everyone. We get here a little material opulence and we forget our real business. We remain intoxicated in material enjoyment and forget the real business of life. That is a great blunder. So Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has sung this fact: hari hari viphale, janama goñāinu. "My dear Lord, I have simply spoiled my life." How? Manuṣya janama pāiya, rādhā kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā, jāniyā śuniyā viṣa khāinu. Any human being who has no knowledge of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he's committing suicide. Jāniyā śuniyā, knowingly, knowingly. Everyone should know, at least, that human life is meant for developing Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and if he, if he knows, at least he gets this information... Just like we are broadcasting this information all over the world, that everyone should become Kṛṣṇa conscious. So in spite of this knowledge, broadcast of this knowledge, if a person does not take advantage of this movement, then it is to be understood that knowingly he's drinking poison. Jāniyā śuniyā viṣa khāinu.
"My dear learned brāhmaṇas." All the sages, they were brāhmaṇas. So, "My dear learned brāhmaṇas," ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ, "according to the division of social system..."
What are the division? The first-class man is a brāhmaṇa, full of knowledge, spiritual knowledge; the second-class man is the administrator, maintaining the state; and a third-class man, economic development, mercantile people; and fourth-class men, they are laborer class. This is the division of the society. And there is division of spiritual advancement. What is that? That brahmacārī, the beginning of spiritual life; then gṛhastha, householder, to live just like gentleman, with responsibility with spiritual view, householder; then vānaprastha, retired life; then sannyāsa, renounced life. These are the divisions, varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. Varṇa means four division of the social system, and āśrama means four division of spiritual enlightenment.
So He is everywhere. Simply you have to catch Him. And He's also ready for being caught. Yes. If somebody wants to catch Him... Suppose you are a devotee. If you want to catch Him, He comes forward ten times than your desire. He's so kind. Therefore, we have to simply receive Him.
So this Deity worship in the temple means worshiping Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He's akhilātmā-bhūtaḥ (Bs. 5.37). Where you shall find Him? He's everywhere. Therefore, He has very kindly accepted to assume a form which you can handle. This form of Kṛṣṇa, the atheist will say that "Here is a form made of marble. How is that they are worshiping God, Kṛṣṇa?" That is atheist view. But from the śāstra, we understand Kṛṣṇa, if He is within the atom, why not within the marble? It is simply understanding. Not only within, the marble itself is also Kṛṣṇa. Because in the Bhagavad-gītā we understand: bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva ca (BG 7.4). These material elements, earth, earth, water, fire, air, they are Kṛṣṇa's energy. Kṛṣṇa says bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā. They are My energies, separated energy. So even if you consider that here is not Kṛṣṇa but a marble. No, that marble is also Kṛṣṇa. Marble is also... And Kṛṣṇa is, being omnipotent, even for your logical argument... Even if you say that this is a marble statue, still Kṛṣṇa is so powerful, omnipotent, that He can accept your service even through this marble. Actually, it is not marble.
Arrival Addresses and Talks
So at least the basic principles is being done, and I am very much thankful to you, you American, European boys and girls who are helping me in this mission. So go on cooperating in this way, and I am sure this mission of Caitanya Mahāprabhu will be successful. It must be successful because Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu wanted it to be done. Simply we, the workers, the servitors, must be very sincere. Then Caitanya Mahāprabhu will give us more and more facilities so that we can work very well. So keep this mission always in view and do your best. That is my only request.
Indian man: What are the, our Prime Minister's view regarding this movement?
Prabhupāda: So far I know, she likes this movement. But she is also not independent.
Indian man: That's true. Nobody is independent. Even she.
Prabhupāda: Recently one of my students met the Home Minister. He said, "Yes, this movement should be spread all over the world." They are appreciating. But there are different parties, different circumstances. Our four items—no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication, no gambling—so I think they are taking some steps on this ground. They are trying to stop cow-killing.
Indian man (2): Yes, they have already banned cow-killing.
Prabhupāda: And they are going to take steps for intoxication.
Indian man (2): Stopping intoxication also. Actually, these are the things which can bring up the character of the nation.
Prabhupāda: We are already intoxicated in material existence, and if more intoxication is there then...
Indian man (2): From bad to worse.
Initiation Lectures
This is the bhāgavata-dharma everywhere. So the human form is not to become a dog, hog, pig. You should become a perfect human being. Śuddhyet sattva. Purify your existence. Why you are subjected to birth, death, old age, and disease? Because we are impure. Now if we purify our existence, then there will be no such thing as birth, death, old age, and disease. That is the version of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu and Kṛṣṇa Himself. Simply by understanding Kṛṣṇa, you become purified and you escape the contamination of birth, death, old age and disease. So try to convince the people in general, the philosophers, the religionists. We have no such thing, sectarian view. Anyone can join this movement and become purified himself. Janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra. So I am very much pleased. You have given already service to the society. Now you take up sannyāsa and preach all over the world so that people may be benefited.
General Lectures
Tarkaḥ apratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnā. Śruta means Vedas or books of knowledge. There are different kinds of theories and doctrines. So if you read those books, unless you are very nicely directed, that will create also perplexity. Śrutayo vibhinnam. And so far philosophical speculation is concerned, the Bhāgavata says that nāsau muni yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. Muni means mental speculator. So you cannot find any mental speculator who is not differing from another mental speculator. So tarkaḥ apratiṣṭhaḥ, the path of so-called logic and argument, is not perfect. Then, simply if you study different books of knowledge, that will also not give you perfect knowledge. If you consult so-called mental speculators, their different views, then dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyām. The ultimate goal of life is very confidential and mysterious. And how to know it? Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). Mahājana means the perfect realized souls who have realized, you have to follow them. That's all. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. Therefore this process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is accepting the mahājana, the authority. The first authority is Kṛṣṇa. From Kṛṣṇa, Arjuna is hearing. There is no question about it. Now if you simply understand as Arjuna understood, then you have got the perfect knowledge. And if you speculate, if you try to comment in your own nonsense way, then you are misled immediately. So this is the way. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). Mahājana means those who are perfect personalities. That will give you (?). That will do (?). Now, there are, according to Vedic system, there are twelve mahājanas. They are all in agreement that the supreme power is the Absolute Personality of Godhead. And they have become all devotees, they have served, they have prescribed rules and regulations. You can... So if we follow these rules and regulations and the mahājana, and many... As it is stated in Bhāgavatam, that those who have followed, they have got perfection. You can get also perfection, there is no doubt about it. Simply you have to follow the footprints of the ācāryas. Then your life will be perfect.
He thinks that "I am very busy." He is very busy. He is businessman. But you are calling, "A nonsense dog is running here and there." Similarly, all these activities by your motorcar, they may think it is very important, but those who are in higher status, they are thinking like dog is going this side, that side, this side, that side. So the activities are temporary.
So we have to find out our eternal life, our eternal activities, our eternal place, and eternal bliss. Those things are explained in the Bhagavad-gītā and further explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And that is, we are moving as Kṛṣṇa consciousness... (break) A sane man should take very serious view of this movement and it should be pushed all over the world. Otherwise you remain in darkness. You never become guḍākeśa. You remain in guḍāka. Never īśa. Guḍāka-īśa, guḍākeśa. Guḍāka means darkness, and īśa means master. So you remain in guḍāka, but not guḍākeśa. So if you want to become guḍākeśa, master of this ignorance, then surrender to Kṛṣṇa. You'll get it.
Prabhupāda: But there must be one standard temperament. What is the standard temperament? You may have different views of something, but there must be some standard view. We are not concerned with the different views of different persons. We have to accept the standard view.
Young man (6): What's that?
Prabhupāda: That Kṛṣṇa.
Young man (6): Well, but don't you think that perhaps bhakti-yoga isn't the way for everyone?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Young man (6): That for some people other yogas would apply more to their...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is in the preliminary stage. Just like the same example, that you have to go... In New York that Empire State Building, 102 story. So everyone is going to the top, but somebody has passed ten steps, somebody has passed twelve steps, somebody has passed twenty. But there may be thousands of steps. So one who has gone to the top, he has passed all the steps. Similarly, there are different process of yogas—karma-yoga or jñāna-yoga... They are divided into three. All these three yogas are described in the Bhagavad-gītā, karma-yoga, jñāna-yoga, dhyāna-yoga and bhakti-yoga. But you'll find the yoginām api sarveṣāṁ. When yoga is described in the Sixth Chapter, you'll find the Lord says, yoginām api sarveṣāṁ: "Of all the yogic process," yoginām api sarveṣāṁ madgatenāntarātmanā (BG 6.47), "one who has taken Me within himself," śraddhāvān bhajate yo mām, "and with faith and love is engaged in My service, he is first-class yogi." So the first-class yogi are all these Kṛṣṇa conscious boys and girls. First-class yogi. Because they're always thinking of Kṛṣṇa within. And that is recommended by Kṛṣṇa, the author of all yogic principles.
We don't teach that you press your nose, you put your head, you go up and down. Nothing required. Simply to know that "God is my father; I am His eternal son. My duty is to love Him," that's all. There is no secrecy. There is no so-called bluff or mystical, this or that. It is simple truth. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). God is teaching that "You simply surrender unto Me, My dear son. Why you are independently...?" Just like here is one of my students. His father is a very big doctor. But he said, "My dear son, you come home." He's very moneyed man. He can give him some few hundred thousands of dollars. "But you don't go to Kṛṣṇa consciousness." That is his view. Similarly, as the father is claiming from the son, "My dear son, you just surrender unto me. I shall give you my wealth, my everything," similarly, God is also canvassing us, "My dear sons, why you are unnecessarily traveling here and making plans to be happy here, nonsense place? You just surrender unto Me. I shall give you all protection." Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi mā śucaḥ: (BG 18.66) "I shall give you all protection." Father is always ready to give son all protection. That is natural. So we are all sons of God. We simply surrender to Him and the business finished. Then where is the mystical and this or that? There is nothing secret. So simply one has to agree. But if the rascal son does not agree: "Oh, why shall I surrender unto Him? I shall remain independent," all right, you remain independent. You remain and suffer. So there is no mystical. Everything is clear.
People are unwilling to accept the Kṛṣṇa consciousness because they are blind. They do not see actual position of their life. That is the position (of) conditioned soul. They are busy simply for sense gratification. So vairāgya-vidyā means not sense gratification, but to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanam: (CC Madhya 19.170) to satisfy the senses of Kṛṣṇa. Material life means satisfying our own senses, and vairāgya-vidyā, or devotional service, means satisfying Kṛṣṇa's senses. That's all. What is the difference between material so-called love and Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa love? The difference is, in the material world, both the parties, they are trying to satisfy their own senses. It doesn't matter. When a boy loves a girl or a girl loves a boy, the motive is his or her own sense satisfaction. But the gopīs, their view is... Not only gopīs. All the cowherds boys, Mother Yaśodā, Nanda Mahārāja, the Vṛndāvana party. So all of them—ready to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa, when He was a boy, His father was arranging for Indra-yajña. Kṛṣṇa said, "My dear father, there is no need of arranging for Indra-yajña. Better you offer these materials to Govardhana Hill." The father answered, "My dear boy, if You want to offer some sacrifice to the Govardhana Hill, I shall arrange for another yajña. This is our custom. We are observing this traditionally. So let us perform this." Kṛṣṇa said, "No, there is no need." The old man immediately rejected, "All right. Kṛṣṇa, to satisfy Kṛṣṇa." The old tradition immediately gave up. And Indra saw, "Oh, this boy is so impudent. He has stopped my yajña. All right, I shall teach something."
People are hooked on matter and on their own identity in matter, taking their own identity from their faces, nose, bodies, and immediate physical city-complex around them, and not realizing another, sweeter, deeper but wilder or "transcendental" identity than the identity of the one-dimensional man that Marcuse has talked out. So what we are proposing here is a modern-minded view, or some indications of a modern Western, i.e., gnostic, Marcuse view of Kali-yuga, as applying to our own situation, rather than being an oriental fairy tale. As it stands, I read in the paper today, the prognosis for our... According to U Thant in today's paper, according to the head of the U.N., mankind has only ten years to reverse the political, social, moral, emotional, bhakti course of the planet, and alter our technology, alter our consciousness radically enough to preserve human existence on the planet. (applause) So this is not only the official U.N. pronouncement; it's also the pronouncement of most of the ecologists, biologists, and ecosystemic students of the planet that are presently considering the ecological disruption that we have caused through our greed and destructiveness.
The oriental tale, or analysis, has it, however, that we have a good deal more time. The Kali-yuga, or age of heavy metal entanglement, iron age, lasts 432,000 years, and we're only five thousand years into it. So there is 428..., 427,000 years to go. In a conversation with Swami Bhaktivedanta today, I was inquiring more about the details of the mythology, which are found in a book called the Bhāgavata Purāṇa. He explained that according to Hindu analysis we are five thousand years into the descent from a lighter age, the age of brass, the disappearance of Lord Kṛṣṇa, an aspect of the Hindu Deity Viṣṇu, preserver, or perhaps the supreme form of the preserver aspect of the universe, of ourselves, or of Viṣṇu.
As soon as He leaves this universe, in another universe His līlā becomes manifest. Kṛṣṇa is born... Kṛṣṇa is born here at Janmāṣṭamī, and as soon as Kṛṣṇa is taken to Gokula by Vasudeva, Kṛṣṇa is seen in another universe, born again. Just like our sun. As soon as it rises at six o'clock or, say, five o'clock... So as soon as here five o'clock finished, in another place five o'clock begins. But it is going on. Ananta-cakra. The five o'clock is permanent. Anywhere, there must be some five o'clock. Anywhere, there must be six o'clock. Anywhere, there must be seven o'clock. Just like the twenty-four hours is going on. You cannot say that the sun's rising at five o'clock, because it is finished within your view, it is finished. No. It is not like that. The five o'clock is permanent to the sun. If it is so possible to a material thing, why not Kṛṣṇa? Therefore it is called nitya-līlā. Nitya-līlā means eternally Janmāṣṭamī is going on. Eternally everything is going on, eternally. So one who is liberated from this world and he is given the spiritual body, he's immediately transferred to the place where Kṛṣṇa's līlā is going on. Just like in Vṛndāvana, when Kṛṣṇa was present, all the Vṛndāvana-vāsīs, they were not ordinary men; they were liberated. They transferred to associate with Kṛṣṇa, practice. And after this complete practice, they were transferred to the Goloka Vṛndāvana. So therefore, Śukadeva Gosvāmī says about the boys, cowherd boys, playing with Kṛṣṇa, kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ. "Oh, how much these boys have accumulated their pious activities! Now they are transferred here to play with Kṛṣṇa." Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ.
In this way the whole world is maintained by one animal is eating another animal or one living entity is eating another living entity. That is the law of nature. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. So you (we) are not interfering with the right of the living entities. A tiger has got the right to eat another animal. So we are not going to preach amongst the tigers that "You become vegetarian" or "You become Kṛṣṇa conscious." That is not our business. Our business is that we are inducing, we are entreating, we are requesting people that "You take Kṛṣṇa prasāda." That is our business. To become vegetarian or nonvegetarian is not very big business. We do not admit that vegetarians are very much pious and nonvegetarians are not pious. No. Not like that. We say that everyone is impious who is not taking foodstuff offered to Kṛṣṇa. That is our view. Anyone. That is stated by Kṛṣṇa. Yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo mucyante sarva-kilbiṣaiḥ: "Anyone who is eating foodstuff offered to Yajña, to Viṣṇu or Kṛṣṇa, he is diminishing his volumes of sinful life." Bhuñjate te tv aghaṁ pāpā ye pacanty ātma-kāraṇāt: (BG 3.13) "And anyone who is cooking for himself, not for Kṛṣṇa, then he is simply eating a lump of sinful life." It doesn't matter whether he is vegetarian or nonvegetarian. This is the philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We have to eat what is offered to Kṛṣṇa. Yajña-śiṣṭāśinaḥ santo mucyante sarva. Yajñārthe karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). If you simply work for Kṛṣṇa... That is called karma-yoga. One who is working simply for Kṛṣṇa, he is karma-yogī. You have got tendency to work. You have got tendency to flourish yourself by advancing industrialism. That's nice. You go on, do it. We don't forbid it. But do it for Kṛṣṇa. Make Kṛṣṇa center. That is the whole teachings of Bhagavad-gītā. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). You offer... Kuruṣva tad mad-arpaṇam. Yat karoṣi. "Whatever you do, it doesn't matter. Whatever you eat," yat karoṣi yaj juhoṣi, "whatever you sacrifice, whatever you give in charity, give unto Me." Kuruṣva tat mad-arpaṇam. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
So ladies and gentlemen, I thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to place before you our views on saṅkīrtana movement all over the world. This saṅkīrtana movement, don't take it as a religious movement. As you generally understand in the Western countries, the word religion is used as "a kind of faith." Faith you can change. Today you are Christian; tomorrow you can become Hindu. But religion cannot be changed. What we mean by the exact word, Sanskrit word, corresponding to religion is dharma, d-h-a-r-m-a. That dharma is different thing from the word religion. Religion is generally understood as a kind of faith, but dharma is not like that. Dharma you cannot change. Just like water. Water is liquid. You cannot make it solid. If water becomes solid, then it is not in the natural state. If you can... You can say the water becomes sometimes solid by less temperature under certain condition. But the tendency of water is to become liquid again. Water cannot stand solid for good. This is called dharma, religion. Or, say, take it for example, a stone. Stone is solid. Stone cannot be liquid. If by chemical process you make stone liquid sometimes, as you transform stone to glass, that liquidness of stone is temporary. Similarly, the solidity of water is also temporary. So similarly, our religion, the dharma... Try to understand the word dharma. Dharma is a permanent occupation of a certain thing. Just like sugar. Sugar is sweet. You cannot make sugar as salty. Or pepper is pungent, hot. You cannot make it sweet. So try to understand the word dharma, that it cannot be changed. Similarly, we living entities, we have got a dharma, or religion.
Devotee: She's asking if you are the first master, what you are teaching.
Prabhupāda: No, we have already explained. From Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the first teacher of this Kṛṣṇa philosophy. So we are taking it, carrying the same instruction.
Devotee: She wants to know if you're the first to come to New Zealand.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. This is first time I have come to New Zealand. So thank you very much. Now have saṅkīrtana. (break)
Guest (1): ...views of Kṛṣṇa towards Westerners and drugs, especially by the young?
Devotee: "What is the views of Kṛṣṇa consciousness in regard to the people using drugs for spiritual enlightenment?"
Prabhupāda: That is not very palatable. Kṛṣṇa does not allow drugs in our movement. No. Kṛṣṇa says,
- yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ
- janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām
- te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā
- bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ
- (BG 7.28)
One cannot take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness unless he is completely washed of all sinful activity. So we forbid four things because they are pillars of sinful activities: illicit sex life, intoxication, meat-eating, and gambling. Unless one gives up these four sinful activities it is not possible to approach Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa clearly says in the Bhagavad-gītā, yeṣām anta-gataṁ pāpam. Pāpam means sin. One who has finished the sinful activity...
So that is a very abominable condition of life, less than animals. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). The atheist class men are described as the lowest of the mankind, duṣkṛtinaḥ. Why? Narādhamāḥ, na duṣkṛtinaḥ: always engaged in sinful activities. That na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ, and rascals. Prapadyante narādhamāḥ, and lowest of the mankind. So "They are very educated." Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā: "Their knowledge has been taken away by the illusory energy." Why? Āsuri-bhāvam āśritāḥ: "Because they have taken to the philosophy of atheism." So their position... Of course, we approach everyone to preach this science of God consciousness, but it is very difficult. Those who have taken to this atheistic view, āsuri-bhāvam āśritāḥ... Āsuri... Just like we have got examples in our Vedic science, Vedic knowledge. There were many atheistic persons like Kaṁsa, Rāvaṇa, Hiraṇyakaśipu, Dantavakra, they never accepted existence of God. But they had to accept the existence of God at the time of death. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś ca aham, that "Death, which takes away everything from everyone, that is... That death I am." So if we don't try to see God during our lifetime, then there will be an incidence which is sure—"As sure as death." That death is God. So to the atheistic person death is God. And to the theistic person, they can see, premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). Those who have developed love of God, oh, they are enjoying the transcendental pleasure in every moment by seeing the artistic work of Kṛṣṇa. So that is the position of a devotee.
Woman: The second of either Christ or a total changeover in the evolution of this planet.
Devotee: Here it is. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Devotee: Hare Kṛṣṇa. She says do you have any views that for the past fifty or hundred years people have been predicting that there is going to be like a second coming or a spiritual changeover which will have an effect on the whole planet.
Prabhupāda: So that is being done now.
Woman: There's a time, they say, the late 1980's or the 1990's, there is to be...
Prabhupāda: Yes, the signs are like that. People are taking this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement very rapidly all over the world.
Woman: But it's just the general way.
Prabhupāda: So it is not very astonishing if by 1980 there are majority population, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and dance. There is no... Because it is growing. Now, here is a girl, my disciple. His (her) original name was Janne. Now he (she) is devotee. And she was dancing in a different way. Now she is dancing Kṛṣṇa conscious. She was a very reputed artist, you know, in Australia. Now she has given that. She was earning hundreds and thousands of dollars, but she has given up everything. Now she is Jagat-tarani: she is delivering the world by dancing with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So that is quite possible. It is very simple. Therefore there is every possibility. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā, when one sees better thing, he gives up the inferior thing. That is nature. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is better engagement of life. So as soon as one understands this philosophy, he gives up the lower engagement and comes to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
So I had some correspondence with him, and he admitted: "Swamijī, your people know much about these things than we know." So there is no question of you and me. It is simply education. Just like these boys. Four or fives year, ago, they did not know anything about this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But because they have been educated with this Bhagavad-gītā, they are also following me. And they are very sound in their conviction in this Western, Eastern culture, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Of course from my part of view, I do not think there is any East and West. Any knowledge is meant for the whole world. Any scientific knowledge. Just like Professor Einstein, if he discovered the law of relativity, it is not for the Western people. It is for the Eastern people also. So there is no such question. When there is culture, when there is knowledge, there is no question of Eastern and Western. But the difference is the Eastern people may know something very nicely and the Western people may take some time. Similarly, Western people may know something very nicely, the Eastern people may take little time. Just like for technology, they go to Western countries to learn how machine works. So they also learn it. In Eastern..., in India, they're also learning. So now the time is ripe that we should not think in terms of Eastern and Western. We should be hankering after real knowledge. That is wanted. That is the point of unity.
The father was atheist, and the son, by nature—not by nature; he was instructed by Nārada Muni about devotional service, so he became perfect. That was the quarrel between the father and the son. The son was a great devotee and the father was a great atheist. The father did not like that his son should be devotee, and father..., son did not like that his father should remain an atheist. So there was misunderstanding. The son was right, but the father will not change his atheistic view. So anyway, after all, father and son, the relation is very affectionate, filial affection. So father asked that whether his son has changed his views. "My dear son, will you kindly explain what you have learned best." So he said, tat sādhu manye-asura-varya. He's addressing his father, asura-varya. Asura means demon, and varya means the top, varyam, the first-class asura. He did not address his father as "father." Asura-varya: "My dear first-class demon, I think you are asking me what is the best thing. So, in my opinion, everyone is very, very anxious." Tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehinām. Dehinām. Dehinām means one who has accepted this material body. He's called dehī. Practically we do not require this material body, but we have accepted this material body for enjoying in this material world. In the spiritual world we can simply remain as servant. We cannot become master. Because in the spiritual world the master is one—Kṛṣṇa, or God—and everyone is servant. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). That is, that is our real position. Our real position is to serve. Now in the material world we have come here to enjoy, but we are serving. This is called māyā. Actually we are not enjoying; we are serving. Suppose I become president of a certain state. What is my position?
Prabhupāda: Jesus Christ, Lord Jesus Christ, is... He is son of God, the best son of God, so we have all respect for him. Yes. Anyone who is teaching people about God consciousness, he is respectful to us. It does not matter in which country, in which atmosphere, he was preaching. It doesn't matter.
Madhudviṣa: (repeating question) St. Francis, the founder of this particular order which we have been invited to speak to, found God in the material world. And he used to address the aspects of the material world as "brother" and "sister." "Brother tree," "sister water," like that. What is your view upon this?
Prabhupāda: This is real God consciousness. This is real God consciousness, yes, not that "I am God conscious, and I kill the animals." That is not God conscious. To accept the trees, plants, lower animals, insignificant ants even, as brothers... Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. This is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Third, to bring the members of the Society together with each other and nearer to Kṛṣṇa, and thus to develop the idea within the members and humanity at large that each soul is part and parcel of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. Fourth, to teach and encourage the saṅkīrtana movement, congregational chanting of the holy name of God, and to reveal the teachings of Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Fifth, to erect for the members and the Society at large a holy place of transcendental pastimes dedicated to the Personality of Godhead. Sixth, to bring the members closer together for the purpose of teaching a simpler and more natural way of life. With a view towards achieving the aforementioned purposes, to publish and distribute periodicals, magazines, books, and other (indistinct).
So we can see that actually Śrīla Prabhupāda has in almost a hundred centers and āśramas throughout the world, this has been established in less than ten years. One gentleman recently was saying, one respectable gentleman was saying, "I do not see how this society has spread all over the world (indistinct)." And I explained to him what we have done already has been in ten years. Just imagine twenty, thirty, forty years, like that. He was so surprised to see that actually in ten years alone all this has been accomplished. And revealing Kṛṣṇa's (indistinct) Bhagavad-gītā and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Śrīla Prabhupāda's books are now printed in almost fifteen languages around the world and distributed in millions every year.
Philosophy Discussions
Prabhupāda: Shadow is called not independent-moving. Here is shadow; I move this hand, then it is moving. She is called (indistinct). But the movement is from Kṛṣṇa. Sṛṣṭi-sthiti (Sanskrit). All our activities are just like shadows. Icchānurūpam (Sanskrit). She is working under the direction of Govinda. Therefore, "I worship Govinda, the cause of all causes." This is stated in Brahma-saṁhitā.
So these rascals, foolish, they are thinking material nature is for our enjoyment. That is the materialistic view. There is a flower. "Nature has produced this flower for me. Everything is for me." Just like in the Bible, Jesus Christ says the animals are given under the protection of man. So they are thinking, "They are given to us for eating. God has given." Suppose I entrust Brahmānanda Swami that you give him protection, but if you think, "He's in my protection. I can eat him..." How intelligent! How magnanimous! They are giving protection by eating. And the Māyāvādī philosophers support them, that when they eat animals, Vivekananda's philosophy, "So what is there? I am Brahman, he is Brahman, so we become united." What is that? And I ask him, "Why don't you go to the tiger Brahman?" Because they are thinking that he is Brahman, the goat is Brahman, so when the man Brahman eats the goat Brahman, they unite. So why don't you unite with the tiger Brahman? This is rascaldom. They are all rascals. Anyone who has no trace of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is a rascal. There is our challenge. (indistinct) He may be great philosopher, religionist—he is a rascal, degree only. Cent percent rascal, or maybe ninety percent rascal, or seventy percent rascal, but they're all rascals. The same example: stool, this side and that side. Because the upside of stool is dried up, you cannot say, "It is very nice." And they're all stool. Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, who does not know the science of Kṛṣṇa, he's useless.
Prabhupāda: So simply by understanding that he is spirit, gradually he understands that there is a spiritual world. This spiritual world is full of varieties. Everything is there, exactly like this, but that is eternal and this is temporary.
Śyāmasundara: He says that this pure reason has a regulative value, that is, by attempting to grasp the totality of conditions by connecting a particular phenomenon with the whole experience. In other words, for example, the idea of a supreme being is a regulative principle of reason because it tells us to view everything in the world in connection, as if it proceeded from the necessary cause, or the Supreme Being.
Prabhupāda: The Supreme Being is the cause of all causes.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. So he says to suppose, or to use my pure reason, to come to the conclusion that there is a Supreme Being is a regulative function, because it makes everything regular. By coming to the conclusion that there is a Supreme Being, the rest of everything, all phenomena, become regulated in relationship with the Supreme Being. This is the natural impulse.
Prabhupāda: That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram: (BG 9.10) "Under My direction the whole material nature is working, and everything is going on," hetunānena kaunteya, jagat viparivartate. On this account, everything in this cosmic manifestation is going on regularly. All Vedic śāstras describe like that, that behind these phenomena there is a direction of a person, and He is the Supreme Person.
Prabhupāda: That is nice, this definition also, but if we put to test all our so-called happiness, it will not be possible to come out successful.
Śyāmasundara: He realizes that this view could give rise to egoistic over-indulgence, that someone could think, "Well, if pleasure is my only goal, let me do anything, never mind others."
Prabhupāda: But then how long it will stay? To come to the test, that it will not stay. Suppose one has decided that I have learned how to cheat others so you can cheat for some time to all men or all men or some men for some time but you cannot... You'll be caught, you'll be captured as a cheater. Then you will be punished. So the duration is not permanent. The test is duration.
Śyāmasundara: One of the tests is duration.
Prabhupāda: Duration, that duration will not allow to enjoy that kind of cheating happiness.
Śyāmasundara: He rejects duty or sense of duty or conscience to be the guide for moral conduct, good and bad conduct, and he accepts only the amount of pleasure or pain as the criterion of right conduct.
Hayagrīva: This is William James. All of these quotations are taken from his most famous book, which was entitled The Varieties of Religious Experience. He's an American philosopher. He defines religion in this way: "Were we to limit our view to it, we should have to define religion as an external art, the art of winning the favor of God. The relation goes direct from heart to heart, from soul to soul, between man and his maker."
Prabhupāda: The man or not man, there are living beings, varieties; we simply do not see the man as a living being. We see there are varieties of living beings, beginning from water up to the higher planetary system. There are different forms of living being, we have several times repeated. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati, like that, nine millions, ah, nine hundred thousands forms of body within the water; then plants, trees, creepers, insects. So all of them are living beings. God is concerned with all of them. Why man is created? Every one of us in different form we are created. Or exactly not created; we are part and parcel of God. In one word God is the father of all living entities. So the simple relationship is that God is maintainer, we are maintained. This is our relationship. In the material world, as a man may have more than one wife, so similarly God has two prakṛtis, or subordinate energies—material and spiritual. So in the material world the material nature is the mother, God is the father, and varieties of living entities, they are all maintained by the father, supreme father. This is the conception of universal brotherhood. And if we understand our relationship with God as father and son... There are so many sons. That is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-yoniṣu. All different forms of life, the mother is material nature, and God says, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā: (BG 14.4) "And I am the seed-giving father." So that relationship should be known, and if we act according to that relationship, there will be actual peace and prosperity and advancement of all knowledge. That is wanted.
Hayagrīva: He sees two basic types of religions. One he calls sort of a naive optimism that says "Hurrah for the universe. God's in His heaven, all is right with the world." He calls this "the sky-blue optimistic gospel." And another type of religion, which he calls pessimistic in the sense that these religions recognize the inevitable futility of materialistic life, and they offer deliverance, or mukti, from the fourfold miseries of material existence. He says, "Man must die to an unreal life before he can be born into the real life." So he felt that the comple test religions take a pessimistic view of life on this..., life in this world, materialistic life.
Prabhupāda: Yes, unless one is pessimistic of this material world, he is animal. A man knows what are the sufferings of this material world: ādhyātmic, ādhibautic, ādhidaivic. There are so many suffering pertaining to the mind, to the mind, sufferings offered by other living beings, and sufferings imposed forcibly by the laws of nature. So the world is full of suffering, but under the spell of māyā, illusion, we accept this suffering condition as progress. But ultimately whatever we do, the death is there. All the resultant action of our activities, they are taken away and we are put to death. So under these circumstances there is no happiness within this material world. I have fully arranged for my happiness, and any moment, just after arrangement, we are kicked out; we have to accept death. So where is happiness here? The intelligent man is always pessimistic, that "First of all let us become secure," that we are trying to adjust this material position to become happy. But who is going to allow us to become happy here? This is pessimistic view. And then further advancement of knowledge is there, and when he understands the orders the orders of Kṛṣṇa, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), to surrender to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and after surrendering and understanding Him fully, then we go to the world which is full of bliss, knowledge and eternal life, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya. That is perfection of life. So unless we take a pessimistic view of this material world, we shall remain attached to it, and there will be repetition of birth and death—sometimes high-grade life, sometimes low-grade life, but this business is very, very disturbing. We make some arrangement to live here permanently, but nature will not allow us. Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). We work very hard; there is unhappiness. And sometimes we may get good results, sometimes bad results, sometimes frustration, so where is happiness? Happiness is only to understand God and act according to His advice, and then go back to home, back to Godhead. That is happiness.
Prabhupāda: So these things are very nicely described in Vedānta-sūtra, and Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the right commentary on Vedānta-sūtra. Just like it is also philosophy, that what is the actual aim of life, or what is the Absolute Truth. So the Vedānta-sūtra is so nicely made, the answer is also there. The Absolute Truth must be that thing which is the origin of everything. Now Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam discusses what is the nature of that origin. This requires philosophical as well as authentic proof. Now, that origin, first of all the origin is conscious or not conscious. Origin, just like these some philosophers, they are tracing life from bones, tracing life. So now one should be intelligent enough to understand whether actually life can begin from bones and stones or life begins from life, actual life. So if the origin of everything, you can say the original source of creation or the creator, if you take it as creator, that we have to take. But creation does not take automatically. There is no proof. There is no proof. From matter, automatically creation takes place, that is not very perfect philosophy, neither one can support this view in the long run. Therefore Śrīmad-Bhāgavata says that the origin of everything must be conscious. And that consciousness, also, existence, existing eternally. Not that consciousness has developed under certain conditions. In this way Bhāgavata has explained, Vedānta-sūtra has explained the origin very logically and sensibly. So these answers are there in the Bhāgavata and Vedānta-sūtra.
Prabhupāda: Time is eternal. There is no past, present, future. We perceive past, present, future due to this body. Just like Kṛṣṇa has no past, present, future.
Śyāmasundara: Wittgenstein noted that his own propositions are nonsensical; that is, they are devoid of any sense content. Therefore he held that...
Prabhupāda: Why he is bothering all nonsensical (indistinct)?
Śyāmasundara: He held that at first we must transcend that, in order to view the world correctly.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that we are. (laughter)
Devotee: We are transcending.
Prabhupāda: Let him study philosophy from us.
Śyāmasundara: Even his verification principles cannot be verified by any other criterion; therefore it is self-refuting. And moreover, this limits the person, the individual, to his own sense experience. So how can the individual refer to himself as part of an existing but not yet experienced external world? In other words, if a person followed his philosophy strictly, he would not be able to put himself in the context of the world.
Śyāmasundara: There's another school of modern philosopher who has the same idea of existence and essence, but they say that there is only existence, that there is no essence, therefore there's no meaning to life.
Prabhupāda: No. According to our..., essence is reality; existence is temporary.
Śyāmasundara: Well, he opposes these philosophers by saying that there cannot be existence without essence.
Prabhupāda: That is our view also. Essence... Just like Śaṅkarācārya says, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. The existence is mithyā. He says mithyā. But we, Vaiṣṇava philosopher, we say not mithyā, not false, but temporary. But temporary. So mithyā we cannot say, because anything coming from God, it cannot be false, but it is temporary. He can change it as He likes; therefore it is temporary.
Śyāmasundara: So he says that existence is the coming into being of the essence.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: The inbetween stage he calls becoming.
Prabhupāda: How he can go deep into the matter? Because he doesn't want to consult anybody, and he cannot see beyond that superficial greenness. There are so many things which are not visible to our view. They are outside.
Śyāmasundara: Just like you have said that the sound was a symptom of the sky, that...
Prabhupāda: That..., that..., that symptom the sky we understand from the scientist, not that personally I have understood that sound is a symptom of the sky. It is the scientists, those who are dealing with physics, they say that the sky, the symptom of sky is sound.
Śyāmasundara: Well, it seems like I could...
Prabhupāda: That is (Sanskrit). That is not sense perception. That is a perception received from other authorities.
Śyāmasundara: So it seems like I could come to that same conclusion without consulting a scientist, that I could...
Prabhupāda: You cannot. That is our version. You cannot. Because simply you are puzzled with the sound, that's all. So wherefrom the sound comes, you have to approach the authorities.
Devotee: It seems like with his method he could get to the point of ahaṁ brahmāsmi. He'll recognize the spiritual substance behind everything eventually, just like the growing..., starting with the point of the leaf. He can gradually reach the point of understanding that it is spirit.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is not that "It is a small child. They will not understand." But they can understand. So what to speak of having sex intercourse before the child? They will learn it. I've seen it. They do not know what is sex intercourse, but they have learned it from their rascal father and mother.
Śyāmasundara: So Freud, actually his psychology depended upon a rather pessimistic view of human nature—that we are all beset with these uncontrollable impulses...
Prabhupāda: This in not only pessimism, but due to poor fund of knowledge. He has no perfect knowledge, neither is he trained up by any perfect man. So he is talking all nonsense.
Śyāmasundara: His conclusion was that it was impossible to be happy in this material world, but we can alleviate some of the conflicts through this psychoanalysis. You can try and make the path as smooth as possible, but it is always...
Prabhupāda: That is one (indistinct) that you cannot be happy in this material world, but if you are spiritually elevated, spiritually trained up, then you will be happy. The same example. Just like iron is not fire, but you put it in the fire, it will act like fire. Similarly, although there is no possibility of happiness in this material world, if you are spiritually trained up, if your consciousness is changed into Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you will be happy. (end)
Revatīnandana: But we say that originally there were desires to enjoy coming from the soul. If it is channelled to the body it becomes sex lust, but if it is channelled higher it becomes higher (indistinct) for advancement. It's not coming from sex, it's coming from the soul, is that correct—the desire to enjoy?
Prabhupāda: No. Try to understand. Sex desire is there in everyone. So once sex desire is (indistinct) up, male sex desire and female sex desire. The sex desire is there in both male and female, but some from impartial view, it appears that the male is the enjoyer and the female is the enjoyed. So both of them are (indistinct). So the female, if she agrees to be predominated, enjoyed, then naturally she also becomes enjoyer. So living entities are described as prakṛti, female. So when the living entities agree to help Kṛṣṇa's sex desire, then they become happy.
Devotee (2): But it's not by Kṛṣṇa's sex desire. What is the meaning of the words "Kṛṣṇa's sex desire"? Kṛṣṇa's satisfaction?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Sense enjoyment, you can say. Sensual enjoyment. Kṛṣṇa is the supreme proprietor of the senses. So when we help Kṛṣṇa for His sense enjoyment, then naturally we also (indistinct). Same example, just like a rasagullā. A rasagullā is to be enjoyed. So the hand takes it and puts it into the stomach. The hand does not enjoy it directly. And when it is put into the stomach, the hand also enjoys, the stomach enjoys, the eyes enjoys—everything. The direct enjoyer is Kṛṣṇa, and all others, indirect enjoyer. By satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa, others will be satisfied. Not directly. Just like a beloved wife, when she sees the husband is eating nicely and he is enjoying nicely, she becomes happy. She becomes happy. So there are two different categories: the predominated category and the predominator category. So by seeing the predominated happy, the predominator becomes happy. That is (indistinct).
Hayagrīva: Concerning God's personality, he writes, "According to the Bible, God has a personality and is the ego of the universe, just as I myself am the ego of my psyche and physical being." But here...
Prabhupāda: Yes, God... So that is our view, that consciousness, just like I am conscious, but I am conscious about my body. I am not conscious of your body. This is individual consciousness. You are conscious of your body, but you are not conscious of my body. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, kṣetra-kṣetrajña, that individual soul is conscious of his own body, each and every individual soul, but there is another consciousness, that is superconsciousness. That is God. God is in everyone's heart, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata (BG 13.3). I am also within the body, but He is not like that individual soul, limited within that body. He is residing in everyone's body, so that He is superconscious, Supersoul, Paramātmā.
Hayagrīva: Continuing on this, God's personality, these are his recollections of his spiritual encounters. He says, "But here I encountered a formidable obstacle. Personality, after all, surely signifies character. Now character is one thing and not another, that is to say, it involves certain specific attributes. But if God is everything, how could He still possess a distinguishable character? On the other hand, if He does have a character He can only be the ego of a subjective, limited world. Moreover, what kind of character or what kind of personality does He have? Everything depends on that, for unless one knows the answer, one cannot establish a relationship to Him."
Hayagrīva: Despite so many interesting points, Jung appears to have a somewhat limited understanding of Indian philosophy. He did not appear to understand that saṁsāra, although it appears to be endless, can be ended if one surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, that there is mukti, that saṁsāra can be overcome by surrendering unto Mukunda. He writes, "The succession of birth and death is viewed as an endless continuity, as an eternal wheel rolling on forever without a goal. Man lives and attains knowledge and dies and begins again from the beginning." He says, "Only with the Buddha does the idea of a goal emerge, namely the overcoming of earthly existence."
Prabhupāda: Hm. So overcoming the earthly existence means you enter in the spiritual world, because spirit soul is eternal. So from this atmosphere to another. That is explained clearly in the Bhagavad-gītā, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). After giving up this present body, this is material, so those who continue to, in the cycle of birth and death, they get another material body, but those who are Kṛṣṇa conscious, they do not get another material body, but he goes to Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference.
Hayagrīva: Kṛṣṇa says that over and over in Bhagavad-gītā. He says it many times.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that, that is for the dviṣataḥ krūrān (BG 16.19), those who are envious of Kṛṣṇa. For them, continuous. And those who are not envious, accepts Kṛṣṇa's instruction, surrenders unto Him and understands Kṛṣṇa, for them this is the last birth, material birth. After this he goes back to home, back to Godhead.
Prabhupāda: No, not only good deeds, that is our aspiration. We don't want emptiness.
Hayagrīva: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Because these materialistic persons, they do not want emptiness, they think that "After finishing this life everything will be empty. So let me enjoy as much as possible in this life." That is their view, that "I am going to be empty. Now before becoming empty, let me enjoy as far..." And the sense enjoyment is the center of material life. Therefore these materialistic person(s) are so much after sense enjoyment. Propriety is one of them. Because their life is empty after death, so because, be..., "Before it becomes empty, let me enjoy as far as possible."
Hayagrīva: He believes that karma brings rebirth. He says, "If a karma still remains to be disposed of, then the soul relapses again into desires and returns to life once more..."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: "...perhaps even doing so out of the realization that something remains to be completed. In my case it must have been primarily a passionate urge toward understanding which brought about my birth, for that is the strongest element in my nature."
Prabhupāda: No. That they do not know. The same soul is, is passing through another gross body with his mental, intellectual identification. He is..., that is nature's gift. That is said in the Bhagavad-gītā: kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). As we have infected a certain type of modes of nature, he is getting a similar body, but the person is the same.
Hayagrīva: Now the, this would be the view, the second view, that is reincarnation. "This concept of rebirth necessarily implies the continuity of personality. Here the human personality is regarded as continuous and accessible to memory, so that when one is incarnated or born one is able, at least potentially, to remember that one has lived through previous existences, and that these existences were one's own, namely that he had the same ego form as the present life. As a rule, reincarnation means rebirth in a human body."
Prabhupāda: Not human body. Just, we have got historical references in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. A king, Bhārata Mahārāja, he was king, and in next life he became a deer, and the next life he became a brāhmaṇa. So the soul is continuing, changing. The example is given, just like a man changes his dress. The man is the same; the dress may be different. That is going on. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). This very word is there. Just when the dress is old it cannot be used any more, he has to change another, to another dress. It is very common sense. So now that next dress you have to purchase or you have to prepare according to your money. Your dress is something now; the next dress you will purchase according to your money. So the exact example is very nice—to change the dress. The man is the same, but he exchanges dress, and the dress is supplied according to the price he can pay. This is common sense. So the price means karma. According to karma he has done, he gets a particular type of body.
Prabhupāda: That's all right, what is that life? Does he know anything? Without life you cannot speak. But he has not established what is that life.
Hayagrīva: Marx opposed Comte's view of the worship of women, and he also opposed the worship of God in nature. He writes, "There is no question of modern sciences which alone, along with modern industry, have revolutionized the whole of nature and put an end to man's childish attitude toward nature as well as to other forms of childishness. The position as regards to the worship of female is the same as nature worship."
Prabhupāda: But how the science or the scientific brain has surpassed the laws of nature? Has man stopped the nature's action—birth, death, old age, and disease? So how the scientist has conquered over nature? What is the meaning of this conquering? The nature's law is going on. Before Marx, his father died, his mother died, and he also died. So how he has conquered over the nature? The death is continuing.
Hayagrīva: He felt...
Prabhupāda: What is the improvement?
Hayagrīva: Yes.
Prabhupāda: What is the improvement?
Hayagrīva: He felt that there has been no improvement because religion has kept man...
Prabhupāda: Actually the main philosophy is Socrates. He is (indistinct).
Hayagrīva: Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, these have been done. Just a little, a few additions. But then there's Plotinus, Origen, and Augustine, and these were the three philosophers who shaped Christian thought or Catholic, the Church thought, Church fathers, and St. Anselm, St. Thomas Aquinas, Scotus and Eckhart, these are Christian...
Prabhupāda: So they are not philosopher; they are Christian with different point of views. So we are not going to discuss with a person he is from the stand..., deviating from the standard way and thinking in their mental speculation.
Hayagrīva: But these, these are considered philosophers...
Prabhupāda: Considered, but because they belong to a certain sect of religion...
Hayagrīva: Because they are followers of Christ?
Prabhupāda: Yes. And they are deviating from the original Christian father, so they are useless.
Hayagrīva: They do, they do deviate. They...
Prabhupāda: No, you can not deviate. Then no more you are Christian. So you can..., you have no platform to talk from the Christianity. Therefore they should be rejected.
Hayagrīva: Uh huh. So Plotinus was not Christian, neither was Origen...
Prabhupāda: If you say Christian, you must follow the four..., ten commandments of Christ. If you don't follow, you make your own ways to escape, then you are no longer Christian. So you cannot talk.
Hayagrīva: In his Politics, Plato changes his mind later in life. In the beginning he believed that in an ideal state the leaders should possess nothing of their own, neither property nor family. He felt that they must live together in a community where wives and children are held in common to guard against corruption, bribery and nepotism in government. He felt that the elite philosophers should mate with women of high qualities in order to produce the best children for positions of responsibility. Now, how does this view of common wives and children correspond to the Vedic version?
Prabhupāda: Yes, Vedic civilization is that, that putrārthe kriyate bhāryā. A man should accept a wife for putra, for son. Why son? Putra-piṇḍa-prayojanam: a putra should be responsible for offering piṇḍa, so that after death, even by mistake or somehow or other I am in a wrong position, by the piṇḍa I am elevated. This is idea. So marriage is for having good son, that's a fact, who will deliver me even if I am in the hell. Therefore the śraddhā ceremony in there. So even the father is in hell, by this śraddhā ceremony he will be delivered. This is the idea. So unless one has got son, nobody is going to offer him śraddhā oblation, and even one may be very benevolent, but it is not expected. But it is the duty of the son, as it is said, putra. Pu means there is a hell pundama (?). The hell's name is pundama, pun. So I mean, pu and tra, tra means one who delivers. If by chance I am put into pundama naraka trayate, one who delivers me from that hellish condition of life, he is putra, and for this kind of putra I accept a wife, not for my sex enjoyment. And it is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, one who uses his sex for these religious activities, that "I shall get good father, a good son who can deliver me," then marriage is required. Otherwise it is useless. Dharmāviruddho kāmo 'smi. Kṛṣṇa says, "Sex life which is not against religious principle, that is I am." And sex life which is, which has no religious principle, that is sense gratification leading one to hell. So this theory: that we should marry, we should have sex life for creating good progeny.
Hayagrīva: In his Ethics, Nicomachean Ethics, Aristotle writes, "Moral excellence is concerned with pleasure and pain. It is pleasure that makes us do base or ignoble action, and pain that prevents us from doing noble actions. For that reason," as Plato says, "men must be brought up from childhood to feel pleasure and pain at the proper things, for this is correct education." So how does this correspond to the Vedic view of education?
Prabhupāda: Vedic view of education is, actually there is no pleasure in this material world, because we may arrange for all pleasure artificially in the material world, but all of sudden one has to die. So where is the pleasure? If you make arrangement of all pleasure and all of a sudden death comes upon you, then where is pleasure? So first of all they must, if they are intelligent, they must make arrangement that they will be able to enjoy the pleasures they have created. Otherwise, where is pleasure? It is disappointment. That is going on. They are trying to become pleased by inventing so many things, but because they are controlled by some superior element, so at any moment they will be kicked out of the pleasure platform. Then where is pleasure? Therefore the conclusion should be: there is no pleasure in this material world. If one is searching after pleasure in the material world, then it is the same thing as the animal is searching water in the desert. There is no water in the desert; it is simply illusion, and he is preparing for death. Because he is thirsty, he is searching after water, and in the wrong way he is searching water. The ultimate result will be he will die of thirst.
Hayagrīva: One last statement from Aristotle. He states, in his Politics, he says, "The beauty of the body is seen, whereas the beauty of the soul is not seen." Is this true?
Hayagrīva: And, uh...
Prabhupāda: Mind is an instrument through which the soul acts. Mind is rejecting and accepting by the dictation of the soul.
Hayagrīva: He looked on animals as machines that react, and the basis for this view is..., he called it radiosenation, or language, because they do not have language...
Prabhupāda: They have got language.
Hayagrīva: They react as machines.
Prabhupāda: They have got language. You do not understand it.
Hayagrīva: It's been proved scientifically...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: ...that they actually... Dolphins, we, we have been able to even speak to dolphins, to communicate verbally. That also...
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa was speaking with everyone. With the birds He was speaking. One old gopī went to the Yamunā to take bath, and when she saw that Kṛṣṇa was speaking with the bird, then she, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa can speak with the birds." She became surprised. So because Kṛṣṇa is God, He can understand everyone's language. That is God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So if God is Deity, He is also not subject to these created living being. That is condemned. When one thinks God's Deity as one of the deities within this material world, he is condemned as mūḍha. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam: (BG 9.11) "Because I appear just like a human being, the rascals, asses, they think of Me as ordinary human."
Hayagrīva: Now in this book Space, Time and Deity, on page 380, Alexander writes... Alexander takes the Aristotelian view of God in saying, "There is no reciprocal action from God, for though we speak as we inevitably must in human terms of God's response to us, there is no direct experience of that response except through our own feeling that devotion to God, or worship, carries with it its own satisfaction."
Prabhupāda: That is his imperfectness. God is omnipotent. He comes before Kṛṣṇa, er, Arjuna, and He speaks Bhagavad-gītā. So because he has no advanced knowledge, he cannot understand how God, omnipotent, all-powerful, can come and speak with His devotee. That is his poor fund of knowledge.
Hayagrīva: Yes, that...
Prabhupāda: If God is omnipotent, why He cannot come and talk with His devotee? Then where is the omnipotency? These rascals cannot understand.
Hayagrīva: That was...
Prabhupāda: There is no meaning of omnipotency if God cannot come and talk with His devotee.
Hayagrīva: Because they have no experience, they think that...
Prabhupāda: There is no meaning of omnipotency if God cannot come and talk with His devotee.
Hayagrīva: Because they have no experience, they think that...
Prabhupāda: That means poor fund of knowledge. The knowledge is imperfect. They are talking of God omnipotent, and He cannot talk with His devotee. Just see. He is restricted by his own law, by his own experience. He is such a fool.
Hayagrīva: This was also Aristotle's view. He said it's foolish for, he says man directs love toward an object that can reciprocate love.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hayagrīva: Therefore it's foolish to love Zeus because Zeus does not extend his love to man. This was the Aristotelian view, that there's no reciprocation.
Prabhupāda: No, Zeus? Zeus I, I don't follow.
Hayagrīva: Oh, Zeus is a, the Greek God, Greek name for God.
Hayagrīva: He felt that more..., even more than the vaiśya, the merchant, or the kṣatriya, the administrator, that the man who will usher in positivism will be the working man, or the śūdra. He says, "The occupation of working men are evidently far more conducive to philosophical views than those of the middle classes, since they are not so absorbing as to prevent continuous thought even during the hours of labor." In other words, when a man is working he can think of philosophical issues because he doesn't have to use his mind, oh, like a merchant or a kṣatriya.
Prabhupāda: He, he, he has used this word kṣatriya, brāhmaṇa...?
Hayagrīva: Oh, no. I'm using this.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Hayagrīva: He says..., he's speaking of the working man.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Hayagrīva: In this he is a..., he influenced Marx considerably in his belief in the worth of the working man.
Prabhupāda: But so far we have seen that even the working man requires a director. In the present Communist society there is working man and the manager class. So as soon as you have to accept a manager, then simply working man will not help us. There must be a managerial person. Otherwise, how the working man can be, I mean to say, systematically engaged in working?
Purports to Songs
Vande 'ham means "I am offering my respectful obeisances." Vande. V-a-n-d-e. Vande means "offering my respectful obeisances." Aham. Aham means "I." Vande 'ham śrī-gurūn, all the gurus, or spiritual masters. The offering of respect direct to the spiritual master means offering respect to all the previous ācāryas. Gurūn means plural number. All the ācāryas, they are not different from one another. Because they are coming in the disciplic succession from the original spiritual master and they have no different views, therefore, although they are many, they are one. Vande 'ham śrī-gurūn śrī-yuta-pada-kamalam. Śrī-yuta means "with all glories, with all opulence." Pada-kamalam, "lotus feet." Offering of respect to the superior begins from the feet, and blessing begins from the head. That is the system. The disciple offers his respect by touching the lotus feet of the spiritual master, and the spiritual master blesses the disciple by touching his head. Therefore it is said, "I offer my respectful obeisances unto the lotus feet of all the ācāryas." Śrī-yuga-pada-kamalaṁ śrī-gurūn vaiṣṇavāṁś ca. Gurūn means spiritual master, and vaiṣṇavāṁś ca means all their followers, devotees of Lord.
Spiritual master means they must have many followers. They are all Vaiṣṇavas. They are called prabhus, and the spiritual master is called prabhupāda because on his lotus feet there are many prabhus. Pada means lotus foot. So all these Vaiṣṇavas, they are all prabhus. So they are also offered respectful Not that the spiritual master alone, but along with his associates. And these associates are all Vaiṣṇavas, his disciples. They are also devotees of the Lord; therefore they should also be offered respectful obeisances. This is the process. Then śrī-rūpam. The spiritual master is descending from the Six Gosvāmīs. Out of the Six Gosvāmīs, Śrī Rūpa Gosvāmī and his elder brother Sanātana Gosvāmī are heading the list. Śrī-rūpaṁ sāgrajātam. Agrajātam means his elder brother, eldest brother. Śrī-rupaṁ sāgrajātaṁ saha-gaṇa-raghunāthānvitam. They are also associated with other Gosvāmīs, two Raghunāthas, raghunāthān, plural number.
The next line is viṣaya chāḍiyā kabe śuddha ha'be mana. (spells out) This kabe means when, aspiring. Śuddha means purified. Ha'be, will be. Mana means mind. So when actually our spiritual master or Nityānanda Prabhu is pleased upon us, at that time the symptom will be that we shall no longer hanker after material enjoyment. When that stage of life is arrived, at that time only, we can understand what is Vṛndāvana, the abode of Kṛṣṇa. Vṛndāvana is not a material place, just like ordinary city or country. It is transcendental. So appreciation of Vṛndāvana will be possible when our mind is free from all material desires. Viṣaya chāḍiyā. Viṣaya means eating, sleeping, mating and defending. They are called viṣaya. Viṣaya means objects. In the material world there are, these four objects are in view: how I shall eat, how I shall sleep, how shall I mate, how shall I defend. So as soon as one is purified of all material desires, these material objectives will not be a problem.
- viṣaya chāḍiyā kabe śuddha ha'be mana
- kabe hāma herabo śrī-vṛndāvana
So then we shall be able to understand what is Vṛndāvana and what is kingdom of God or Goloka Vṛndāvana.
And the next stage is that one has to understand what is the loving affairs, conjugal love, between Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa. And that will be possible if we carefully study the literatures left by the Gosvāmīs. Just like Rūpa Goswami has left behind him bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, Vidagdha-mādhava, Lalitā-mādhava. Many books. Especially that Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu.
| Page Title: | View (Lectures, Other) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 21 of Nov, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=64, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 64 |