Dayānanda: Isn't laziness one of the demonic qualities, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: It is less than demonic. Demonic qualities, they have some activity, and laziness is ignorance, darkness. Therefore too much sleeping is very, very bad. That is another part of laziness. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau: one has to conquer over this sleeping and laziness. Eating, nidrā, ahāra, vihāra, sense gratification. Vihāra means sense gratification. One has to minimize these things up to the point of nil. That is perfection. When there is no more sleeping, no more eating, no more mating and no more fearing, that is perfection of spiritual life. And that is not possible, but as much as possible. (break) ...some cases they cannot sleep more that the culture is very great gain, profit.
Hṛdayānanda: Consider a rich man. A rich man can sleep, a poor man must work.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Hṛdayānanda: They're always making agitation to reduce what they call the work week. Formerly they were working so many hours per week; now they want to reduce it down to forty, thirty, twenty hours per week.
Prabhupāda: So why they're inventing machine? Machine means no work.
Hṛdayānanda: They think this is progress. Everyone can lie down, and the machines will work.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Machine, inventing machine means one machine can work for fifty men. The banks are using this, what is that, computer?
Hṛdayānanda: Yes, everyone is using computers.
Prabhupāda: To save money. Machine means unemployment for many. Tractor, they're using, they're unemployment for bulls and plowmen, and then they, bulls, have to be killed. This is going on. Unemployment, then kill them. Vietnam, send all the men to fight, and kill them. As soon as there is overpopulation, they declare war so that people may be killed.
Hṛdayānanda: Sometimes the soldiers became so disgusted that they would shoot their own officers.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hṛdayānanda: But they would do it in such a way so it appeared to be accident. Sometimes they would take little bomb and throw it into the tent of the officers, and they would all be killed.
Prabhupāda: What was the reason?
Hṛdayānanda: Well, because the officers, they were not qualified. They were simply foolish. They were directing them in such a way that they were all in danger.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Hṛdayānanda: And they could not understand why they were there. It was a foreign... They were used to America, and so they had to go to the jungle, but they were..., they could not see the point of fighting.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. Service.
Hṛdayānanda: So many times they would become so disgusted they would simply kill their own officers—shoot them or throw a bomb. Also, in Vietnam, the majority of the soldiers were fighting intoxicated—marijuana and different drugs.
Dayānanda: Also, I think people have no respect for authority any more.
Prabhupāda: No.
Dayānanda: There's... All over the world people are not respecting any kind of authorities.
Prabhupāda: No.
Dayānanda: There are so many false authorities.
Prabhupāda: Especially the students. That means chaotic condition. (break) ...type of civilization, this material world.
Dayānanda: Therefore it is so nice that Your Divine Grace is presenting the perfect authority, Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And one who follows His instruction, he also perfect. That we are pushing. Admit Kṛṣṇa conscious—everything will be all right. Everyone is following. I asked this question to Kotovsky: "Sir, you have got a leader, we have got a leader, so where is the difference?" And then I said, "Only you have got a fool leader, we have got intelligent leader." Otherwise you cannot avoid leadership, authority. That is not possible.