Prabhupāda: The outcome is that Sārvabhauma was impersonalist and Caitanya Mahāprabhu was Vaisnava. Then by argument, logic, and everything, that is shortly described here, Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya became a disciple of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and he became a great devotee. That is the outcome. And it was a great victory on the part of Caitanya Mahāprabhu because Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya was known as the most stubborn scholar of logic of that time and he became a devotee. By Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya's becoming a devotee of Lord Caitanya, practically He became victorious in His missionary activities because Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya was the learned scholar in the assembly of the King of Orissa. So the King of Orissa also became a devotee. And many other scholars and big men.
Victory (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1967 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: The outcome is that Sārvabhauma was impersonalist and Caitanya Mahāprabhu was Vaisnava. Then by argument, logic, and everything, that is shortly described here, Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya became a disciple of Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and he became a great devotee. That is the outcome. And it was a great victory on the part of Caitanya Mahāprabhu because Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya was known as the most stubborn scholar of logic of that time and he became a devotee. By Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya's becoming a devotee of Lord Caitanya, practically He became victorious in His missionary activities because Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya was the learned scholar in the assembly of the King of Orissa. So the King of Orissa also became a devotee. And many other scholars and big men.
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: The nature is forgetfulness. But God does not forget. He knows past, present, and future. That is the difference between Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa. So the fighting spirit, it is to be understood. The fighting spirit is there in the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and it is exhibited at a certain period just to teach us that when fighting should be taken. Fighting is not very good thing, but if there is necessity... Just like in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra. The Battlefield of Kurukṣetra was organized by two rival parties. One party was pious; another party was impious. So Kṛṣṇa took side of Arjuna, and he was victorious. That is the history of Kurukṣetra fight. So the Lord wanted to exhibit His fighting spirit. And who will fight with Him? Therefore two of His devotees were resigned that they should go in the material world and fight with the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Prabhupāda: You have got experience, some of you, that if you speak something about God, they become very angry: "What nonsense, God? I am God. Everyone is God. What special qualification of God?" This is demonic principle. So there is always... Not now, there is always fighting between the gods and the demons. So when these demons grew up with full-fledged strength by the grace of the Lord, so they fought with the demigods in other planets. And sometimes the demons became victorious, sometimes the gods became victorious. So when the gods became victorious, Hiraṇyakaśipu, his wife was arrested. At that time, his wife was pregnant, and the demigods arresting the wife of Hiraṇyakaśipu were dragging her to take her into their, I mean to say, planet.
Prabhupāda: This verse was twice explained, two times explained: once before Sanatāna Gosvāmī and once before Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya. Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya was considered at that time to be the greatest learned man in India. At that time nyāya-śāstra, logic, amongst the learned scholar logic is the greatest weapon to get victory over His opponent. So learned scholar is always a very learned scholar in logic, nyāya-śāstra. So this logic was taught in Bihar, Dharvanga. India, in different parts of India, different kinds of education was imparted. In Benares, the Mayavāda philosophy was very prominent. In Dharvanga, logic was very prominent. In Navadvīpa, philosophy was very prominent, and nyāya also. Similarly, in Bharampura, Bharatpura. There are many places, just like at the present moment there are many places, university. So He was great logician, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. In His boyhood He would ask His contemporary friends to argue with Him on a subject matter, and He'll defeat him.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Oh, that is... Yes. That is Sanskrit scholar. Not in prose. He'll go on composing verses. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu at that time was sixteen years old boy, but He was very learned logician. So the Keśava Kāśmīrī, he was traveling all over India by, I mean to say, competing other paṇḍitas, other learned scholars. So he, everywhere he was victorious. So he came to Navadvīpa. And in those days Navadvīpa and Benares and Udipi and Kashmir, four, five places, were very scholarly.
Prabhupāda: So when he came to Navadvīpa, that was the... In all other places he was victorious. So all the Navadvīpa paṇḍitas, they conferred that "Nimāi Paṇḍita should be forwarded to talk with him. And if he is defeated by Nimāi Paṇḍita, then we'll become victorious because a boy has defeated him. But if Nimāi Paṇḍita becomes defeated, then we'll get another chance: 'No, you have defeated boy. Let us come.' " In this way they make. So Keśava Kāśmīrī was informed that first of all he'll have to talk with Nimāi Paṇḍita. So one day Nimāi Paṇḍita, boy Nimāi Paṇḍita, was talking with his disciples, students.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Vidya, the goddess of learning, Sarasvatī. In our childhood we used to worship Sarasvatī: "Please, mother, give me pass this examination." That was our prayer. So other students, they laughed very loudly. They thought that "Caitanya has come out very victorious within a second." He said, "No. Stop." Then He stopped all these talkings, and... "So you are so... I have to talk with you. You are very learned." Ordinary formalities. Then he went away. And he was also great worshiper of mother Sarasvatī. Then he began to pray to Sarasvatī, "Mother Sarasvatī, by your grace I have become victorious in so many places. And what is this, that I am defeated by a boy who is a grammar student?" So he began to pray, and mother Sarasvatī informed her (him) that "He is God, my husband. So you speak means I speak. So how can I defeat my husband? That is not..." (knock at door) Come on. Come on. (someone enters) Yes, come. Yes. You can put there. (someone offers obeisances) Put there. All right. Put there. That's all. Very good. So then he further did not attempt to talk with Him. He went away, and the mother Sarasvatī advised him that "You surrender unto Him. That will be your nice role. Yes." So later on, he became a great devotee of Lord Caitanya, Keśava Kāśmīrī.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No, there will be fight. That is the prediction of great politician. There will be war between these Communist and anti-Communist. There are two parties now. The anti-Communist will be defeated. The Communists will come out victorious.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: You analyze cow stool; you find all antiseptic matter. So therefore we accept the Vedic injunction as truth. We haven't got to make research. We save time. So according to Vedic civilization, whatever is stated in the Vedas, we take it-fact. That's all. Śruti. Śruti-pramāṇam. Śruti means Vedas. Pramāṇam means evidence. According to Indian system... There are two persons talking, arguing, but the person who can give Vedic evidence, he is victorious. That's all. That is the system. Just like in law court two lawyers are fighting, but the lawyer who is giving evidences from the lawbook, he is accepted by the judge. And therefore, generally you will find, whenever we speak something, we give evidence from the śāstra in Sanskrit, in all our books.
Prabhupāda: But we have tried to explain how He is person. Just like we try to explain how God is working. So one should have brain to study things. One must have clear idea how God is person, how He is working, how this cosmic manifestation is manifested by God's energy. Kṛṣṇa says, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagad avyakta-mūrtinā (BG 9.4). "In My impersonal feature, everything is manifested there." Tatam idaṁ sarvam. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). So one has to apply his brain—that is intelligence—how it has become person. That is not false, that is fact. You cannot understand; your brain is teeny. That is different thing. Now you make your brain competent to understand this philosophy. (break) ...vijñātaṁ bhavanti. So take this philosophy nicely, understand this philosophy, and preach. You will be victorious everywhere, because we can challenge anyone. If you know the trick, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you can challenge. Nārāyaṇa-parāḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati (SB 6.17.28). One who is nārāyaṇa-parāḥ, he is never afraid of anything.
Prabhupāda: So, therefore, they are all animals. Fools, rascals. Abodha-jāto, they have been described—all rascals, fools. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma. So long they do not come to the point of understanding spirit soul, they are simply rascals. And whatever they are doing, simply being defeated actually. The so-called scientific research, simply their defeat. What they have gained? That is stated in Bhāgavata. Parābhava. Parābhava means defeat. So long they do not come to the understanding of self, the spirit soul, they are simply rascals and fools. And what the rascals and fools can become victorious? They will never become victorious. They will always be subdued by the laws of nature. Parābhava, defeat simply. Whatever scientific discoveries, there is simply defeat, not conquering. That old scientist, he could not check his old age, so what is the value of his scientific discoveries? He could not check his growing in age, so what is the value of scientific advancement? He will die. They cannot check death, they cannot check old age. Nobody can check death. Then what is advancement? The real problems are there. Parābhavas tāvad. Parābhava, simply defeat, wasting time being defeated by the laws of nature. They cannot understand anything properly.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No, you are...(laughter) I am giving an example. This is going on. He is going to die. He has adopted a process by which he will die, and he thinks that he is enjoying. This is called māyā. Māyā means things which is not, māyā. Mā means not, yā means this. "What you are thinking, it is not that." That is called māyā. So they are in māyā means, they are thinking, these rascals, they are thinking, improving, becoming happy, advancing this māyā word will finish everything, mā, yā: "Not this." Bhāgavata says that "You are thinking you are becoming victorious, but you are being defeated." Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. These rascal, abodha-jātaḥ, born fools and rascal, they are becoming defeated in every step. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. So long he does not inquire about his self, "What I am," he is simply being defeated. That's all. This is the verdict.
Umāpati: Walking further into the cave.
Prabhupāda: He's working foolishly like animal. He does not know what is soul, what he is, nothing of the sort. He is working hard day and night and he is thinking, "I am becoming victorious." This is called māyā. What victory? Have you won victory over birth, death, the real problem? "No. We have won victory. We can now, without horse, we can go with a car." So what is that? With a horse or without horse, you cannot go anywhere else. You will be here within this world. That's all. Just like these rascals, now they have invented car. You know that? Formerly they were walking.
Prabhupāda: So everything is being defeated. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. Abodha-jāta, these rascal fools, born foolish. He does not inquire about the self-realization, so whatever he is doing, it is all defeat, he is spoiling his time, because he does not know. Ātma-tattvam, the science of self-realization. So in ignorance, whatever you do there is defeat. And they're being defeated and they're thinking "I'm victorious." This is called māyā. This is called māyā. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very scientific. We are trying to save the living entity from disastrous condition. This is the aim and mission of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not a religious sentiment, no. It is a very scientific. And we have got so many books already printed, and many books coming. Each and every one.
Prabhupāda: He died, but became victorious. Yes. I think during Queen, last Elizabeth's time, or something...?
Prabhupāda: He followed the moral principles of this material world. He thought... He expressed that "Duryodhana...," he knew that "Either be on Arjuna's side or not, Arjuna will be victorious. Because Kṛṣṇa is there. So let us fight with..." Because kṣatriya, this fighting is sporting. You see. That is not any difficult task for them. So he showed these moral principles, that "These people are maintaining me, Duryodhana... They are maintaining me. I am old man, and they are taking care of me, and they are expect... So when they are in danger, I shall go to his enemy's side? Oh, this is not good." That he saw. And he knew that, "Even if I do not go to this side, he'll be victorious." So he showed these moral principles. "So one is maintaining me and he is in now danger, I go to his enemy's side, that does not look well."
Prabhupāda: They will not be able. Now, if they are serious to check this communistic movement, save the American country as well as the whole world, then they must be very serious to understand what is God and what is trust in God. Otherwise this communistic movement will finish the civilized human society. So you are thoughtful. They must be very serious about it. And this is the only movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which can make all people actually trust in God and explain what is meant by God. Demons, they... If the communists are demons and the capitalists are also demons, fighting between demons, there will be war and loss of life, but nobody will come out victorious. That is going on. There is occasional world war, but the situation of the world remains the same. No party has become able to change the situation of the world. What do you think, Karandhara?
Prabhupāda: Simply they fight and loss of life and money, energy. War must be for the good. If there is some war, it must be for some good. But where is that goodness? The world remains the same; rather, it becomes more worst. Then why fight? But they will fight. Because both of them demons, they will fight. But not for any good result. War means... War is not bad. Just like disease. If somebody is diseased, then he becomes healthy. The whole polluted situation of the body becomes repaired. Just like when you get a boil or dysentery, all the poisons of the body, they become purged out. Then your health becomes nice. That is the law, nature's law. Similarly, war or famine or pestilence, they are meant for purging out all undesirable men. But the demonic principle is so strong that it is not becoming so. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Make this approach. The Americans have placed in their constitution, "In God we Trust." It should be done very scientifically and philosophically, what is God and what is that trust, not a vague idea. Vague ideas will not help. They will not be able to conquer over the atheistic world. Actually, if there is organized party who believe in God factually, then this demon class of men will always be vanquished. Yes. Just like there was war between the surāsura, demigods and the asuras. God, Viṣṇu, took side of the demigods and came out victorious. But if both of them are demons, why Viṣṇu will take side of anyone of them? "You fight and go to hell." That is going on.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Pāṇḍu-putrāṇāṁ jaysam pakṣe janārdana. Pāṇḍu-putra, the Pāṇḍavas, are glorified because on their side, Kṛṣṇa is there. Therefore, victory for them. One very big doctor of Allahabad, my old friend, Dr. G. Bose, he is also D.T.M., M.A.B. He wants to join this movement.
Prabhupāda: Nītir, by argument, by logic, when one becomes victorious, that victory is Kṛṣṇa, nītī. Without Kṛṣṇa...
Chandobhai: It is God's victory, not his.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: ...there is a temple, Tarakeśvara, in Hoogli district. So Lord Śiva... So people, I mean to say, pray that "If my this disease is cured or if I get this victory, I shall become a sannyāsī for a month." (laughs) So that system is going on. They become sannyāsīs for one month. There are hundreds and thousands.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You have created all these things. God has not sanctioned. God has not sanctioned for running on a factory. Therefore as soon as you run on a factory, you simply commit sinful activities. In the Bhagavad-gītā we don't find any such sanction that you run on a factory, a slaughterhouse or the brothel and this business and brewery no such sanction. But you have done at your whims. Just like in the last war, Mr. Churchill sanctioned or requested everyone to go to the church. What is that "V"? Victory? Yes. And now... Before starting the war, Mr. Churchill and company did not take any sanction. And when they were in reverse condition, then, that time, they are going to the church for victory. So God cannot be made in such a way as order supplier. That is not possible. This is not prayer. You start war whimsically, and when you are in a precarious condition you go to the church and pray God, "Give us victory." What is this? This is commanding God. But you have to follow the commands of God. That is your position.
Prabhupāda: Very recent, very recent future. This Communist and Capitalist mentality will bring the next... The Communists will be victorious.
Prabhupāda: No. When there is political game, everyone does everything to gain his victory. In politics, these things are allowed. Just like killing, fighting, kṣatriya's fighting. That killing is allowed. But killing is not allowed generally. Kṛṣṇa has killed so many. If you take from moral point of view, He's sometimes immoral. He has killed His maternal uncle, Kaṁsa, and Śiśupāla, Śiśupāla, his cousin brother. And Balarāma killed Rukma. Once He saved him, and another time, that Aniruddha's marriage, or something like that... Balarāma killed Rukma, the brother of Rukmiṇī. They were family relatives. But there was some misunderstanding in chess playing that other party, Rukma, he was cheating by tricks. The Balarāma became so angry, they killed him. So in politics amongst the kṣatriyas, these things are not uncommon.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: And we have come out victorious.
Rāmeṣvara: You wrote that if the Communists are victorious they would destroy whatever is left of the culture.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Victory for the Communists means the whole human culture is lost.
Nalinī-kānta: If after the war the preaching will be still good, that means the Communists will not be victorious.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Nalinī-kānta: The Americans will win?
Prabhupāda: Honest people will take to religious way of life. The Communists becoming victorious means they are also ruined. Who is that saintly person, sitting under the tree?
Prabhupāda: But they are uncompromising. The communists, they, they are staunch enemy of the capitalist. Their whole philosophy is against God and against capitalism. So if America becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious and fights, they have got strength plus God's blessing. They'll come out victorious. Fight is going on. We cannot stop. But if the American people take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and fight with the communist, they'll come out victorious. Then the menace of communistic movement will stop. And we want that. We want that these demonic communists should be finished. The Russians, as people, they are not communists. They are not communists. A certain class. Just like in India, a certain class is communist. The mass of people is not communist. They cannot become communist. It is not possible.
Prabhupāda: No. Yes, when there is politics, that is necessary. I am speaking of politics, not of love. You cannot create love by violence. That is another thing. But if you want kingdom, there must be violence. By violence you cannot force a woman, agree to love you. That is not possible. Then there must be love. The business must be done accordingly. But when there is politics, there must be violence. Otherwise you cannot come out victorious. (break) ...in a friendly way. "Might is right." So Gandhi did this foolishness and he died of violence. (laughs) He praised the philosophy of nonviolence, but he was himself killed by violence. That was his foolishness.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is called pravṛtti, pravṛttir eṣā bhūtānāṁ nivṛttis tu mahā-phalā. This is natural inclination, but if you can stop it, that is victory.
Prabhupāda: No. That is war tactics. That is war tactics. Sometimes we have to use war tactics because we have to own victory. But they were generous because in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra they would fight like anything, like enemies, but at night they were friends. The one man is going. Just like sportsman. They fight during the play, but after that, they are friends, talking together, drinking together, like that.
Prabhupāda: Determination, and yuddhe ca apalāyanam. Now when there is war, these politician will remain in their room safely. They will not go to the war. And why these people are voted for political post? Formerly the king would first of all stand. To the other side also, the king is there and this side also. The fight is going on. If the king is killed, then the victory is there. Yuddhe ca apalāyanam. The formula is there. So these classes of man should be on the administration, not anyone coward, nonsense, and by hook and crook they get some vote and take the political leader... How you will find peace? The fourth class is required. Just like in your body you have got brain, brain is required. Then hand. Whenever there is some attack, consciously, unconsciously, I forward my hand. So the division is already there. If you come to attack me with a knife, I don't push my head. I push my hand. So when there is attack, the brāhmaṇas are not expected to go forward; the kṣatriyas. So this is training. Everything is perfectly there.
Prabhupāda: Now the nuclear war means it will not continue very long. The first party who will drop the bomb on the other party, he will be victorious, and immediately the war will stop. They are simply arranging how to drop the atom bomb first. So one who will be able to drop the bomb first, he will be victorious. It doesn't require long time. Just like in Japan, as soon as the Americans dropped the atom bomb in Hiroshima, immediately they surrendered. This will be the result. Now the question is who will be able to drop the bomb first.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that will do. But the war will stop because the party which will be able to drop the bomb first, he will be victorious.
Prabhupāda: No, no. (break) ...our practice, then they are defeated. That they... (break) What they can do? But at heart they know what is their value. (break) ...and push on. You will come victorious everywhere. (break) ...sūrya-sama, māya andhakāra yāhān kṛṣṇa, tāhān nahi māyāra adhikāra. If you remain seriously in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then these people will have no, I mean to say, right to come before you. Adhikāra. They will remain far away. (break) ...how to make my watch right time?
Satsvarūpa:
- yatra yogeśvaraḥ kṛṣṇo
- yatra pārtho dhanur-dharaḥ
- tatra śrīr vijayo bhūtir
- dhruvā nītir matir mama
- (BG 18.78)
"Wherever there is Kṛṣṇa, the master of all mystics, and wherever there is Arjuna, the supreme archer, there will also certainly be opulence, victory, extraordinary power, and morality. That is my opinion."
Prabhupāda: Where there is Kṛṣṇa and His devotee, all opulences, all power, all strength, everything is there. Yatra yogeśvaraḥ kṛṣṇo yatra dhanur-dharaḥ pārthaḥ. Wherever there is Arjuna... Just like Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa were on the chariot. Whole battlefield became victorious on behalf of Arjuna. That is wanted. A devotee must be there, and Kṛṣṇa must be there. Then all opulences will come. That is the secret. Why a devotee shall go to the forest for meditating or acquiring some mystic powers? He doesn't require anything. If he keeps Kṛṣṇa always with him, then everything will... Yes. Is there any purport?
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. Paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. Śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtana is so powerful that it will conquer. It will be victorious. So I am very glad to meet you. And do this program. And if you like, I shall come back after a week and do. Utilize me in this way, I shall be very glad. That's all right.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because you have no conception of God, how can you deny or accept? Remain fool, that's all. That is the difficulty. When you ask them, whole world, "What is the conception of God?" they'll not be able to answer. Still, they will say there is no God. This is the foolishness going on all over the world. Actually they are not concerned with God. They accept the idea of God or so-called God for their material facilities. "O God, give us our daily bread. That's all. If You supply daily bread, then I accept You. Otherwise I reject You." This is their... When there is a war, Churchill will ask them to go, victory, "V": "Go and pray to God." God is order-supplier. And when they declare war, they do not consult God. When there is reverse condition they go to it. This is going on, that God means order-supplier. "Whatever I desire, if You are God then You supply me. Otherwise I reject You." What they will understand, intimate relationship with God, to serve Him as father, as mother, as friend? What they will understand, these rascals? It is not possible. They have no idea of God. Therefore they cannot understand. God is asking, sarva-dharmān parityajya. (BG 18.66) "What is this?" They cannot understand. Therefore they misinterpret.
Prabhupāda: Why God? Why not scientist ? (laughter) Pray to scientist. Why the order was for God, not for the scientist? Churchill also, when the war condition was very, very severe—they were going to be finished—then he asked everyone to go to church and pray. That "V"? "V"? Victory: "For victory, go and pray."
Prabhupāda: So, my problem, there is no problem, because as soon as there is Kṛṣṇa, śrīr, vibhūtir, victory, everything is there. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. So we have got everything, but I am not a yogi. We must believe in the words of Bhagavad-gītā. Yatra yogeśvaraḥ kṛṣṇaḥ yatra dhanur-dharaḥ pārthaḥ tatra śrīr vibhūtir vijayo. Everything is there. That art we have to learn, that let us become dependent like Arjuna on Kṛṣṇa, then everything is there.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That you have to prove. You can eulogize your Guru Mahārāja, but you have to learn it and face the public and be strong to defend yourself. That is success. Not by praising your Guru Mahārāja. You'll praise your Guru Mahārāja. That is not very difficult. But be victorious to the opposing elements. Then you will praise your Guru Mahārāja nicely. At home, you can praise your Guru Mahārāja, and Guru Mahārāja be satisfied, "Oh, my disciples are praising me." That is not very.... That is good. Respectful. That is the qualification. But you have to fight. Then your Guru Mahārāja will be glorified.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: (break) ..."victorious flag," "Jayapatāka." (break) ...to walk in this place. Very nice. Oh, yes. Sun is rising. (break) ...dolls?
Prabhupāda: They should follow what their spiritual master says. Book selling, there is no question of moral and immoral. They must sell. Just like in fighting. Where there is fight, the soldiers, to gain victory, there is no question of moral and immoral. He must.
Prabhupāda: So in this way... You are all intelligent, you can plan. The aim is how to distribute books. That is first consideration. (break) In Bhāgavata it is very figuratively described that we have got this body and the different parts. Just like Arjuna is sitting on the chariot. There is chariot driver, there are horses, reins. There is field, and the arrow, and the bow. They have been figuratively. So this can be used for killing the enemies of our Kṛṣṇa Consciousness and then give up all this paraphernalia, chariot, we... Just like after fighting, only victory, then you kill them. And similarly this body is there, the mind is there, the senses are there. So utilize it for conquering over this material existence. And then give up this body and go back to home.
Prabhupāda: My family members are very nice, well-educated. I have got good bank balance, and I have got respectable position," so on, so on. He is thinking, "These things will save me." This world is struggle for existence, and when there is struggle, there are some soldiers. So ātma-sainyeṣu asatsu api. One is thinking that "These are my soldiers. I'll own victory in the struggle for existence." But pramattaḥ tasya nidhanaṁ paśyann api na paśyati. But he's so mad, he knows that these things will be vanquished, and still, he does not see to it. Paśyann api na paśyati. Therefore his anxiety. So Prahlāda Mahārāja is, this version, sadā samudvigna-dhiyam asad-grahāt: "On account of accepting nonpermanent things as permanent, therefore he's full of anxiety."
Prabhupāda: They were happy. Otherwise they could not fight. They are not Vietnam soldiers, when they are attacked they are going away. They are not like that. They are determined that "I'll either lay down life or gain victory." That is their... They were not afraid of fighting. Do you think they were afraid of fighting? That is real kṣatriya. Yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam. That is real kṣatriya training.
Prabhupāda: You are Jaya-tirtha. You are victorious. Now whatever is being done, it is by his blessing. Let us work sincerely. Things will be all.... Otherwise it is humanly impossible. It is by his grace.
Prabhupāda: That's a fact. If one actually interested in real philosophy, they must come to spiritualism. Ātma-tattvam. That is ātma-tattvam. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. So long they do not come to this platform of understanding ātma-tattva, whatever rascal they are doing, simply defeat, that's all. Parābhava. Simply frustration and defeat. This very word, parābhava, means defeat. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. Why he's defeated? Abodha-jātaḥ. Because by birth he's a rascal. Abodha-jātaḥ. And this will continue yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. So long he's not enlightened to inquire about spirit and the science of spirit, he'll remain in that, that, what is called, defeat position or conquered position. So we have to now increase our scope. Everything we have got. And if you don't come to this platform, ātma-tattva, then your all attempt will be defeat. You are already defeated, frustrated, simply struggling, that's all. Either take the capitalist or communist, who has conquered? Everyone is defeated. One party may be proud that "We have been victorious." What victory you have got? What is the victory? Not that the communist countries, they are all happy. This is not the fact. Then where is your victory? Simply beating the drum that they have got victory, victory? "We have gone to moon planet. We have gone to Mars." Cheating innocent public. Is that victory?
Pradyumna: "Wherever there is Kṛṣṇa, the master of all mystics, and wherever there is Arjuna, the supreme archer, there will also certainly be opulence, victory, extraordinary power, and morality. That is my opinion."
Prabhupāda: So understand Kṛṣṇa like Arjuna. Then Kṛṣṇa is there, Arjuna is there, and all victory is there.
Mrs. Sahani: And the victory is there.
Prabhupāda: Yes, then victory is there. But if one can avoid Kṛṣṇa or kill Kṛṣṇa, then where is victory?
Mrs. Sahani: Victory.
Prabhupāda: Victory, any man you can say victory. Where there is Kṛṣṇa, there is victory.
Prabhupāda: Sometimes here, sometimes there, sometimes on the street, sometimes on the restaurant, sometimes a hotel. Regular prostitution. It is called tongue prostitution. There are prostitution of three things: prostitution of the tongue, prostitution of the belly, and prostitution of the genital. Three kinds of. Udara-upastha-vegam. Jihvā-udara-upastha-vegam (NOI 1). Straight line. So to stop this prostitution is to control the tongue. The tongue prostitution means he wants to eat varieties of foodstuff. Kṛṣṇa is so merciful, "All right, you eat varieties of prasāda." Then tongue prostitution is controlled and naturally the belly and the genital controlled. Kṛṣṇa baḍo doyāmoy koribāre jihvā jay. To own victory over the tongue, He has given varieties... Therefore all nice things should be offered to Kṛṣṇa and then take prasāda. They will be benefited.
Prabhupāda: If there is war they were not affected. And the soldiers would not bother the public. It is said during Mohammedan period the soldiers of one party will ask the cultivator, "Where the other soldiers gone?" They would say, "I have seen and they have gone this side." The cultivator is going on. The fighting is going on, but the cultivator is not affected. He is free. "You fight between themselves and whoever the victor is, I shall pay taxes. That's all. I have nothing to do with politics." This was... Between two parties of king or political, they may fight. Citizens, they have nothing to do who is the victorious. "You fight and one of you will become victorious. So you take taxes. I am concerned with paying tax. And tax, tax means whatever I have grown, you take one-fourth. You see this I have grown. Now you can take away one-fourth." No income tax, no sale tax, no this tax or that tax. And if some year, by chance, he has not grown anything—no tax. "I have not produced, I could not produce anything." Very simple. Soldiers, they were not paid. They were given land by the king. "You enjoy this land without any price. But when there is fight you have to come out." Fight is not going every day. It may take place after some years. So they are living peacefully.
Hari-śauri: Great victory for the enemy.
Haṁsadūta: Great victory for the enemy. Just like because a high ranking officer in the army was captured by the enemy, then they would brainwash him. They had this, some process...
Prabhupāda:
- udilo aruṇa pūraba-bhāge
- dwija-maṇi gorā amani jāge
- bhakata-samūha loiyā sāthe
- gelā nagara-brāje
This is nagara-brāje, walking. Everywhere it will be victorious.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That is our victory. That is victory because Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura said that viṣaya viṣānale, dibā-niśi hiyā jwale, taribare nā koinu upāy, golokera prema-dhana, hari-nāma saṅkīrtana, rati nā janmilo kene tāy: "This material world is the burning fire of anxiety. So in order to get rid of it, we have to take shelter of Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, which is imported from the spiritual sky." That is a fact. So as soon as you take shelter of Hare Kṛṣṇa, naturally we are relieved from this blazing fire of material existence. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Finished. Bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. Mahā-dāvāgni, this fire of material existence, finished. That's a fact. So they have pointed out. This circumstance, it is good. Yes. That is the position. Yes. Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommends that. In order to get rid of this blazing fire, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21): chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. When there is fight these things are studied. (Hindi) When there is fight there is no question of immoral or moral. "We must get victory," that's all. Kṛṣṇa did it. Kṛṣṇa asked...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our victory, when there is opposition, and that is our victory. In spite of opposition, we are selling our books in large quantity. Yes. Large quantity. What is the one week sale that? Eighteen lakhs or something like...
Prabhupāda: First of all thinking, then feeling, then willing, then working. (break) ...and spending for military strength. They are not performing yajña, so how there will be rainfall? There will be warfare, devastation. Most rubbish civilization, modern misleading, soul-killing. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Very difficult to live with them. Still, we have to do this Kṛṣṇa's business. So we have to do our business. Let the dogs bark on. We don't care for it. If we remain sincere to Kṛṣṇa, that is our victory, not the result. Karmaṇy evādhikāras te mā phaleṣu kadācana. We have to act according to direction of Kṛṣṇa, that much. We want to see good result. Even there is no good result, we don't mind. We must be sincere to Kṛṣṇa that "We have done our best." That's all. Without cheating Kṛṣṇa. That is our duty. As servant, we shall not cheat the master. Result, no result—that depends on Kṛṣṇa. We should not be sorry if there is not result.
Prabhupāda: So you are scientist, devotee, and kṣatriya. As kṣatriya you'll force: (laughing) "You must believe this, or I will kill you." (laughter) And as scientist, the convincing argument... And as devotee, Kṛṣṇa will help you. That's all Yuddhyasva mām anusmara (BG 8.7). That is Kṛṣṇa's word, "Fight! And remember Me." That's all. Combination kṣatriya, devotee, and scientist. Very good combination. Kṣatriya does not know beyond two things—victory or death. No third thing. That is kṣatriya. In a fighting, if I do not gain victory, then I must die. Two things. That is kṣatriya spirit. Whenever there is fight between the two kṣatriya, one must die. That is last word. No compromise. Jarāsandha and Bhīma, fighting for twenty-eight days, in the evening they were friends, but the fighting went on until one is dead. That is kṣatriya's fighting. Where is that spirit now? I think in Europe also there was the knights.
Prabhupāda: So... And Kṛṣṇa also confirms, ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati, na ca tasmād... (Bg 18.68). You'll be recognized by Kṛṣṇa. Simply go on sincerely working for this movement. Nobody can defeat you. Take all strategic point, fighting with māyā, and become victorious. From any point of view, come on. We shall fight with māyā. It is a great declaration of fight with māyā. Not with māyā. Our fight is with the demons. Māyā is servant, maidservant of Kṛṣṇa. She can withdraw by the order. But she cannot withdraw because people are demons. So this European opposition, American opposition is that the demons are now feeling the pressure. That is recognition that "Now it is a fight. We have to defend."
Prabhupāda: (laughs) And that's a fact. (laughter) Well, let us see. (laughter) It is a fight between Kṛṣṇa and demon. Let us do our duty and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Everything will be all right. There are so many demons. Prahlāda Mahārāja was five-years-old boy, and his father, such a big demon... The fight was at home. Still, Prahlāda Mahārāja gained victory. Similarly, you are all Prahlāda Mahārāja, (laughs) and your fathers are great demons. The fight is there. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Depend on Kṛṣṇa. You'll come out victorious. Nṛsiṁha-deva will come. So the poison of (laughing) Kṛṣṇa consciousness is acting now. That is good. If we come out victorious, then it will be a great victory.
Prabhupāda: So this will give impetus to Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati (BG 4.7). Don't be disappointed. Kṛṣṇa will act through His movement and kill them, these demons. How it will be done, that you cannot know now, but it will be done. Let us remain true soldiers. That's all. And if it is a fight, suppose we die in the fight. The fight means with vow, with determination either to gain victory or die. Because it is fight against māyā, why we shall be afraid of being killed? Where there is fight, one must know that "Either I am going to be killed or gain victory." Jīvo vā māro vā. Those who are devotees, either they live or they die—the same thing. While they live they are serving Kṛṣṇa; when they die they will serve Kṛṣṇa. Jīvo vā māro vā. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). He goes to Kṛṣṇa. (laughs) So what is the loss? We are working for Kṛṣṇa, and if we die we go to Kṛṣṇa. So what is the loss? Same business.
Prabhupāda: Now immediately a vote should be formed. You cannot do independently. That will not be allowed, anything. In Bengali there is a word, pañce mili kare kārya, hari duḥkhi nāhi lasa(?): "If you do something, combined together, five men, then whether you are defeated or you are victorious, there is nothing to be shameful." Hari duḥkhi nāhi lasa. So you are doing everything independent. We do not like to interfere with your business. You become angry. So that should be stopped. You cannot be allowed. You'll be (indistinct). It has no meaning.
Prabhupāda: ...owned victory with the court by keeping shaven hair.
Hari-śauri: They won a victory in the court by keeping a shaved head.
Prabhupāda: Shaven hair. So why you should be victimized by keeping hair? What victory you will gain? Conquer over the whole world, Roman Empire, by keeping hair? Hippie mentality, that's all. That is within the core of the heart. As soon as get some opportunity... Just like during summer season the field appears to be dried up. And as soon as there is some rain, oh, it is green, immediately green. So things are already there. Hm? Is it not?
| Page Title: | Victory (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur, Rishab |
| Created: | 15 of Dec, 2010 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=68, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 68 |