Prabhupāda: Jñānī means one who can defend by knowledge Kṛṣṇa's identity. That is jñānī.
Mr. Sar: Or he's āsthitaḥ...
Dr. Patel: "Perpetually welded with Me."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mr. Sar: Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). (laughter)
Prabhupāda: And the so-called jñānavān, they'll take many, many, many births.
Mr. Sar: So-called, so-called, yes, so-called.
Prabhupāda: So-called. Because actually when he becomes wise, he prapadyante, he surrenders. That is the sy...
Mr. Sar: If he has become jñānī with bhakti...
Prabhupāda: Then you'll find, you'll find that he has surrendered. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam... He has no... "No, Vāsudeva, Kṛṣṇa, is everything."
Mr. Sar: Real jñānī is that who...
Prabhupāda: That is real jñānī.
Mr. Sar: ...who has surrendered himself. That is correct. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19), jñānavān ..., vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti, sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ (BG 7.19).
Prabhupāda: Sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ.
Dr. Patel: Vāsudevaḥ sarvam etam...
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Mr. Sar: Sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma.
Prabhupāda: Vāsudevaḥ sarvam idam means Vāsudeva is everything. Because... We already explained: There are two energies, prakṛti of Vāsudeva, one aparā and para. And whatever you see, this is combination of this aparā and para. Therefore Vāsudeva is everything.
Dr. Patel: Sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ.
Prabhupāda: Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ (BG 7.19).
Mr. Sar: Kāmais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ...
Dr. Patel: So that way Vāsudeva is sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Hogya. Same thing He is...
Prabhupāda: Huh. But Vāsudeva is there. It does not mean... Māyāvādī says, "Because Vāsudeva has got everything, He has become everything, He's finished."
Mr. Sar: Vāsudeva still above.
Dr. Patel: That is... Nobody says that.
Prabhupāda: That is Māyāvāda. Yes. That is Māyāvāda, impersonalism. They don't accept the person. That... "Because Vāsudeva has expanded Himself in so many ways, therefore the identity of Vāsudeva is finished."
Dr. Patel: It cannot be exactly. Pūrṇam idaṁ pūrṇam adhaḥ.. (Īśopaniṣad, Invocation).
Prabhupāda: That's all right. But because they are fools, they cannot understand.