Untouchable (Conv and Letters)

Expressions researched:
"untouchable" |"untouchables"

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Prasādaṁ prāpti-mātreṇa bhoktavyam. That is the Vedic injunction. Even it is brought from distant place, even it is dried up, even it is touched by the untouchable, still it should be taken immediately.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: He says, "Does this Kṛṣṇa consciousness message apply as well to the outcastes?"

Prabhupāda: Outcaste? There are four castes only.

Swiss Man (1): But there are the outcastes...

Yogeśvara: Do you mean the untouchables?

Prabhupāda: Outcaste means those who are less than the śūdras. They are called pañcamas. These are four divisions: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. Śūdra means laborer class but they are also obedient to the other three classes. And less than that, they have been described as caṇḍālas, pañcamas, or untouchable as you say. But for us, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, there is no such distinction. Anyone can become Kṛṣṇa conscious. The pañcamas, the fifth class men are called caṇḍālas. Caṇḍāla means untouchable. So they are also many: kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ (SB 2.4.18). So Kṛṣṇa says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). There is... Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya.

Yogeśvara: (translates)

Prabhupāda: Read it.

Nitāi:

māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya

ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ

striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrās

te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim

(BG 9.32)

"O son of Pṛthā, those who take shelter in Me, though they be of lower birth—women, vaiśyas (merchants), as well as śūdras (workers)—can approach the supreme destination."

Prabhupāda: So in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement there is no such distinction because we are interested with the soul. The soul is the same everywhere and these designations are different. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is above designation. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). One is freed from all designation. Actually, on the spiritual level, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, anyone who is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is above all these divisions.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: He was attacked by a wild boar, and the boars for the Muslims are untouchable. So he was saying haram, haram, which means untouchable. And he was killed by that boar, but it was taken by higher authority that he was chanting "ha rāma," which means "where is Lord Rāma," so he derived liberation. Even unconsciously he was chanting and derived liberation.

Prabhupāda: Although he did not mean Rāma, he condemned the boar as haram, condemned. But the...

Priest: Same story is said in the bhakti tradition of Maharastra of the hunter.

Prabhupāda: Yes, may be the same story.

Priest: Untouchable hunter who was chased by a boar and went to a tree, and then... It is a common story.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, we are recommending "Chant the holy name of God."

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Sandy Nixon: The Gītā mentions the caste system.

Prabhupāda: Gītā, what mentions, do you know?

Sandy Nixon: The four castes and an untouchable caste.

Prabhupāda: What is that? On the basis of what?

Sandy Nixon: I can't locate it directly. But the Brahma...

Prabhupāda: Brahmānanda. Who has said that this is caste system? This is not caste system. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). According to quality and according to work, there are four divisions of men. Just like you can understand there are engineers and there are medical practitioners. So do you take them as caste? "Oh, he is engineer caste. He is medical caste." Do you say like that?

Room Conversation -- October 15, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: ...is generated from dog originally.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The disease?

Prabhupāda: Syphilis. In Ayur-Vedic it is called phairanga, means this disease is imported from Western countries. Every dog has syphilis, and they contaminate the woman, and that is distributed to man. According to Vedic civilization, dog is untouchable. Now in India also, to keep a dog is aristocracy. Yes. Especially the tail cut. Now half-cut tail, that is aristocratic dog. Now they are making dog show in New Delhi.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes, they have taken dogs as God. According to Vedic civilization, dog is untouchable.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Hari-śauri: He's just using the word "harijana" in place of śūdra or what was formerly "untouchables."

Prabhupāda: He can use, but this "harijana" word was manufactured by Gandhi. Vivekananda died some time, 1900... I do not exactly remember. When Gandhi's movement was not started. Gandhi's movement was started in 1917. And long ago Vivekananda expired.

Evening Darsana -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Chakapat. So whatever is going on in the name of religion, simply cheating. Because religion means dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Religion means the laws given by God. That is religion. But they do not know who is God and what is the law. And God is coming personally, giving the laws. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). They'll not take it. In the absence they'll say, "We have not seen God. We do not know who is God." And when He comes, they don't take. They are misguided by the leaders. Bhagavad-gītā without Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Take Bhagavad-gītā, but don't touch Kṛṣṇa. Untouchable. Take the egg and cut the throat of the chicken; it is expensive. Take only the hind part; you'll get the egg. And mouth is expensive, cut it.

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Gargamuni: In some of the American magazines they publish a best-seller list of books, and the number of books we sell goes beyond the best-seller list.

Prabhupāda: And especially philosophical and religious books. These people do not touch. (laughs) Untouchable. Has even Vivekananda has presented so many books? A small book, "Thus spake..." And what he will write? What does he know? Simply bluffers. Chaliots.(?) Our Bon Mahārāja is also one of the chaliots. What is the English for chaliot?

Jayapatākā: Bluffers?

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is all bogus. Bogus. Simply bogus. Politics. In Gandhi's āśrama I saw not a single Vaiṣṇava or Viṣṇu or Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: Photographs, you mean to say.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "He's Vaiṣṇava." Bogus.

Dr. Patel: He never visited any temple.

Prabhupāda: Bogus! Simply politics.

Dr. Patel: He wanted to kill(?) other Muslims and all other... Especially untouchable.

Prabhupāda: The people approached him that "Mahatmaji, you have got influence over the Muslims, why not stop cow-killing?" "I cannot touch on their religious principles." Just see. Cow-killing is religious? Their religious principle. If I say my father-killing, mother-killing is my religion, so Gandhi will say, "Yes, you can do that. Nonviolent." Kill nonviolent. This nonsense contradiction can be tolerated by the fools and rascals. That's all.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are brainwashing from bad to good. That is our business. We are washing the brain from all rascaldom. That is our business. You are... Your brain is filled up with all rubbish things: meat-eating and illicit sex, gambling. So we are washing them. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ, hrdy antaḥ-stho abhadrāṇi (SB 1.2.17). Abhadrānī washing. Abhadrāṇi means bad things. The bad things should be washed off. Don't you cleanse your home? Don't you cleanse your room? Is not that brainwashing? So if you wash your room very cleansed, who blames you? But you are so rascal that "Why you are washing this garbage?" you are protesting. You are such an intelligent man. We are washing the garbage; you are protesting, "Why you are washing the garbage?" This is your intelligence. But intelligent men wash the garbage. That is the law of nature, cleanse. That we are doing. According to Vedic civilization, you are actually untouchable. Now we have come to touch you; therefore wash you must first. You are untouchable. In Indian civilization, dog is untouchable, and that is your best friend. So you are not touchable. Therefore we have to wash you. And unless your brain is washed, you cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. So it is necessary. Is that all right? Dog is your best friend. In India dog is untouchable. So "Man is known by his company." If your best friend is dog, then what you are? We can understand your position because you sleep with dog, you eat with dog, your best friend is dog, so what you are? You must be washed. It is a fact. Every woman, every man, has some dog.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Jagadīśa: Dog or cat.

Prabhupāda: Mostly dog. So "Man is known by his company." Your constant company is dog, so what you are? These are the way. Actually, according to Vedic... Why they do not allow Europeans in the Jagannātha temple? Because they are untouchable. According to Vedic civilization, Europeans are untouchable. Muslims and..., untouchable. Not only foreigners, even in their own country, those who are not very cleansed, they are untouchable. Another's eatable things, they're untouchable. Just like hog. If you give him halavā, he will not take it. He will eat stool. Therefore hog is so abominable. Similarly, in your country there are so many nice foodstuffs. Milk is so abundant. You do not know how to utilize milk. You are cutting the poor animal and the rotten flesh you are... You do not know how to utilize the milk.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: No, no. Apart from Bible, I am speaking from practical point of view. What is milk? Milk is blood. If the mother is unhealthy, anemic, you cannot keep. It dries away.(?) Milk is transformed from the blood. That's a fact. Now our cows in New Vrindaban, they are supplying more milk than in other farms. So you do not know how to utilize blood. You are so uncivilized. And you are claiming to be civilized. You are untouchable. You do not know what is the... Yes, in our New Vrindaban the men from other farms, they come. They are surprised. "Milk can give, this much?"(?) You know that? They are uncivilized, cutthroat. And therefore they are now eating better. You are not civilized. Don't talk of anything. First of all be civilized. Give up sin, sinful activities. Then come to understand what is God.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu didn't kill. He did not kill Jagāi and Mādhāi. 'Cause Kṛṣṇa killed, but in this age that principle of love...

Prabhupāda: And if you kill, then wholesale will be killed. No... There will be no candidate for learning. You have to kill everyone. That will be at the end, Kalki-avatāra, simply killing, bas, finish. They'll have no capacity to understand. Nowadays there are... They cannot understand this philosophy. But there are some, they are trying to understand. But at the end of Kali-yuga there will be no brain to understand or to hear all these things. Mleccha. That is mleccha. Mleccha means they are so unclean, unstandardized, they have no brain. That is Europe, America. That's ... Mleccha. Kill animals. Eat. Mleccha, they are, according to Vedic, untouchable. If you touch, then you infect.

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: In the Kali-yuga, ninety-nine percent, they are sinful and suffering. Pāpī-tāpī. Pāpī means sinful, and tāpī means suffering. All of them, pāpī-tāpī yata chila, they are all delivered simply by this process of Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. Pāpī-tāpī yata chila, hari-nāma uddhārila. Then where is the evidence? Tāra sākṣī jagāi mādhāi. You are a lawyer, you want witness, evidence.

Ram Jethmalani: (laughing) You don't blame me.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, it is not blaming, it is fact. It is the real understanding. Without evidence, without proof, how law can be established? That's a good method. So he is speaking like lawyer, that "You want evidence, you want witness: see here." Tāra sākṣī jagāi mādhāi. So that is five hundred years ago. Now in our Hare Kṛṣṇa movement you see practically. Drunkards, illicit sex-hunters, and so on, so on, they have become saintly persons. This is the effect of it. So... And Kṛṣṇa also says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). It doesn't matter. Pāpa-yoni. According to our Vedic system, low-class, those who are born in low-grade family, they are called pāpa-yoni. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, lower than that—śūdrādhaḥ. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ (SB 2.4.18). They are called pāpa-yoni, untouchables. Of course, nowadays these things cannot go on. But these are there.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Sharma: And the proper facility appears in the rights and democratic (indistinct). But we have a right to live on this planet. Why should we (indistinct) the right of another man?

Prabhupāda: They are... They are... They are described in the Bhāgavata, pāpinaḥ. Those who are killing other animals for maintaining his own body, they are very, very sinful. Very, very sinful. Therefore untouchable. According to Vedic civilization, the animal-killers, mlecchas, they are untouchable. They are so sinful.

Morning Conversation -- April 30, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They created untouchables, repressed, sidual,(?) so many partition.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who created them?

Prabhupāda: Britishers. Then, when Gandhi tried to accommodate them, then rupture between Hindu-Muslim, Muslim League, riot. To keep their kingdom they were doing... So many innocent persons were massacred. Anyāyena artha-sañcayan. The Britishers committed so many sinful activities. They will suffer.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now they're suffering for it.

Talk About Varnasrama, S.B. 2.1.1-5 -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: In our childhood we have seen. The bhangis, they carry stool, walk in the morning with stool, so neat and clean. And if you go to the house, you cannot understand that this is a bhangi's house. So neat and clean. And bathing their utensils, their sitting place. After taking thorough bath, sometimes they are worshiping Deity.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow!

Prabhupāda: Still you'll find.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really?

Prabhupāda: Bhangi. And business is carrying stool.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When they say "untouchables," do they mean those bhangis?

Prabhupāda: They have introduced this word, "untouchable."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But is that the community that they're talking about?

Prabhupāda: Hm hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And still they worship Deity.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. There are many devotees, Vaiṣṇava. Hui(?) dāsa, a great Vaiṣṇava.

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Mr. Myer: They think anything is possible, anything.(?) Do they not preach when they are congressmen? Tomorrow Congress is going to power. Then Janata comes to power. All the time they are changing, everyone. They just want personal gain at any cost.

Prabhupāda: That is why we say the stool, this side and that side... After all, it is stool. Somebody says, "This side is better than that side." Stool is stool when in this side or that side. That is going on. Guer ei pitaro(?). But they are so intelligent, they say, "No, no, this side is better. It has dried up." They are rascals like that. It is stool. It is untouchable. It is... On all side it is bad, but they are thinking, "This side..." This is their intelligence. What can I do? But if they consult us, they'll be benefited. We are not going to be prime minister or this minister, that... We kick out. We want to remain eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. We have no such ambition. So read books. Do things nicely. Serve Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection of life. The direction is there, Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

1947 to 1965 Correspondence

Letter to Dr. Rajendra Prasad, President of Indian Union -- Delhi 21 November, 1956:

In the Bhagavad-gita it is said very clearly that whosoever may adopt the specific principle of accepting Sri Krishna the Personality of Godhead, he will be able to achieve the highest transcendental goal of life,—never mind what he is either a born untouchable, a fallen woman, a laborer or a man dealing in rupees annas pies. His being so, what is there difficulty for a pious "Brahmin" and devoted king for going "Back to Godhead"? Everyone should therefore adopt this principle of going "Back to Godhead" in order to get released from the world of miseries, with temporary existence.

Letter to Sri Padampat Singhania -- Kanpur 7 May, 1957:

Therefore, the Deductive Process is more effective. Man is mortal we have heard it from very authoritative sources like the Vedas and we have accepted it. The Vedas say that stool is impure but the stool of the cow is pure. The Vedas say that bone is untouchable but the conchshell which is also a bone is perfectly pure. For the common man the statements of the Vedas appear to be contradictory. But in spite of such contradiction, because we Hindus accept the Vedas as authority we accept cow dung as pure and allow it to be used even in the kitchen.

1968 Correspondence

Letter to Brahmananda -- Seattle 6 October, 1968:

There is a verse in Vedic literature, Drabyamulyena Suddhati. The source of receipt of the thing, may be not very good, but if one pays for it, it becomes purified. So, vegetable diet when it is paid for, you can offer it in your mind to Krishna and take it. But this Drabya means eatables, and eatables meaning vegetables, grains, milk, flowers, fruits; meat is not considered an eatable—it is considered untouchable. Just like if somebody purchases some stool, that does not mean it is now purified. So meat is like that.

1969 Correspondence

Letter to Tamala Krsna -- Hamburg 8 September, 1969:

The first thing is that nobody should enter my room for any other purpose except cleansing. Nobody can stay there or sleep there or anything. If she wants to worship Krishna in her own way, she must find an apartment outside the temple. She does not belong to the Vaisnava principles, therefore we cannot approve her Deity worship within the temple. Her example may be followed by others, therefore it must be stopped immediately. Regarding the house, it is not possible for us to pay such sums: it is untouchable. But if they are prepared to sell the house at 250,000 dollars when complete and finished, and accept 10% down payment, then we can consider to touch it.

Letter to Brahmananda -- Tittenhurst 16 September, 1969:

I thank you very much for your letter dated September 13rd, 1969. Regarding the press purchasing, it must proceed on, and Krishna will help you. Don't worry. I understand that you require approximately $14,000 out of which Advaita has $4,500 and you have about $5,000. The balance may be asked from Tamala as the house we are contemplating to purchase is untouchable by us on account of too high price.

1970 Correspondence

Letter to Harer Nama -- Los Angeles 11 February, 1970:

Any foodstuff suspected to contain untouchable ingredients should never be used in the temple. Yogurt can be prepared in the temple, it is not very difficult. Boil the milk at night, put a little yogurt in it, and next morning you will find it full of yogurt. You can ask New Vrindaban, they are practically preparing all these things.