Prabhupāda: Love of Kṛṣṇa cannot be stopped by any material reason. That is love. Nobody can say that "For this reason I could not love Kṛṣṇa." There is no reason. There is no impediment for anyone. Any circumstances. So any religious principle which helps a person to love Kṛṣṇa and God, in that way, without any reason, without any impediment... Just like flow of the river. There is no impediment in this world which can stop the flow of the river. Or the waves of the Pacific Ocean. There is no power in the material world which can stop the waves going on, going on, going on. You see? Similarly, that is the best type of religion. Now just see how Bhāgavata is liberal in the description of religion. Religion... You are religious, you are very pious man—how it will be tested? How much you have developed love of God. That's all. Without any reason, without any impediment. This is test of best religion.
This is the test (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Hṛṣīkeśa, you can read loudly. We'll hear.
Hṛṣīkeśa: "Qualifications of devotee: 1) kind to everyone, 2) does not quarrel with anyone, 3) fixed in the Absolute Truth, 4) equal to everyone, 5) faultless, 6) charitable, 7) mild, 8) clean, 9) simple, 10) benevolent, 11) peaceful, 12) completely attached to Kṛṣṇa, 13) no material hankering, 14) meek, 15) steady, 16) self-controlled, 17) does not eat more than required, 18) sane, 19) respectful..." (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Not insane.
Hṛṣīkeśa: "...20) humble, 21) grave, 22) compassionate, 23) friendly, 24) poetic, 25) expert..."
Prabhupāda: Poetic.
Hṛṣīkeśa: "...25) expert, and 26) silent."
Prabhupāda: These are the qualities.
Allen Ginsberg: Whose list is that? Is that an old list or have you made that up for young Americans?"
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, these are taken from authoritative śāstras. Yes. This is the test, whether you are becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious or not. You have to test yourself, whether you are developing these qualities. This is for testing.
Allen Ginsberg: I'm slowly developing all qualities except sanity. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Insanity for seeking Kṛṣṇa, that is required. Yes. Unless you become insane after Kṛṣṇa just like Lord Caitanya became... Yes. His worship is to become insane after Kṛṣṇa.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: The crow take enjoyment in the garbage, you have seen? They won't go in a nice place. They will come all together. Just like vultures, they come together to take pleasure in a corpse, dead body. But a white swan, rāja-haṁsa, he goes to a place where there is nice water, lilies and lotus and nice trees. You have seen that St. James Park? They will find out such nice place. They won't go to imitate the crows. The crows-like people will take pleasure in such nonsense literature, sex literature, or any such literature. So many nonsense literatures nowadays they are having good sale. Because people are becoming crows-like, they have no high idea, they have no sense of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, naturally they will take. Just like hippies, they have become all bad taste, crows-like. So we have to become swans, rāja-haṁsa, paramahaṁsa, paramahaṁsa. Paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2). Then you can understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If you remain crows, then you cannot, that is not possible. By nature's example we have to see if crows-like and swans-like, pigeons-like, birds of the same feather. Birds of the same feather flock together, is it not? So you have to change your feather, then he will be pleased. If you keep your feather crows-like, then you cannot mix with the swans, that is not possible. This is the test. There are classes of men like crows, and there are classes of men like swans. So we are preparing our devotee... (aside) What is that?
Devotee (1): Is anybody watching?
Devotee (2): No.
Prabhupāda: So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means swan-like, they should be like swans. Their behavior should be like swans. They should live in clean place, at refreshing place.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says, "You fully surrender. I give you full protection." Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi (BG 18.66). He will give you full intelligence. (break) ...these facts in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That will be our great success when the scientific world will admit. Let them admit simply. Then our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will (be) great success. You simply admit, "Yes, there is God and mystic power." Then our movement is very successful. And that's a fact. Simply talking like a nonsense amongst the nonsense, that is not a very great credit. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). One blind man is leading other blind man. What is the value of such? They are all blind. And so long one remains blind and rascal, he does not accept God. This is the test. As soon as we see that he does not accept God, he is blind, rascal, fool, whatever you can call. Take it for granted, however, whatever he may be. He's a rascal. On this principle we can challenge so many big, big chemist, philosopher, whoever comes to us. We say, "You are demon."
Prabhupāda: Sum and substance of sādhu means devotee. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa says, api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). "He's sādhu." Who? Ananya-bhāk: "Without any diversion of attention, he's completely engaged in My devotional service... Even if he has got some minor defects, still, because he is completely surrendered and engaged in My service, he's sādhu." Sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). So this is the test of sādhu. Sādhu means he must be a devotee. Sādhu does not mean having saffron color and long beard and doing all nonsense. No. Sādhu means... First test is that he is unflinching, without any deviation. Api cet sudurā..., bhajate mām ananya-bhāk. Ananya-bhāk means he does not know anything except the service of the Lord. That is the qualification of sādhu. So similarly, in other places also, the definition of sādhu is there. Sādhu means titikṣavaḥ: he's very tolerant because a sādhu has to face so many opposing elements and sometimes very offensive, but he has to tolerate. Titikṣavaḥ. At the same time, kāruṇikāḥ, very merciful. The same man who is torturing him, torturing him, he is trying to convince him about Kṛṣṇa. That means very merciful. He's not rejecting. Although he's torturing him, but he's trying to convince him, Kṛṣṇa. Therefore kāruṇikāḥ. And he is not friend of any particular society or man. Suhṛdaḥ sarva-dehinām. He is well-wisher of all living entities. It doesn't matter whether he's Indian, American, or black and white. No, no conception. Or even human being or animal. He is kind to everyone, friend, well-wisher of everyone. Ajāta-śatravaḥ. He does not create any enemies. Such... These are the qualifications of sādhu.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Gupta: When we pass, people say "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Rāma."
Prabhupāda: This is the test of Vaiṣṇava. If one is actually Vaiṣṇava, then by seeing him one will chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This has been created all over the world. Yes. Wherever we go, they chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Even at midnight in Athens. Yes. That we have experienced. This is the definition given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
Prabhupāda: Paramātmā and jīvātmā, what is the difference? Kṛṣṇa says that sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata. I... This is very practical, that I am the jīvātmā. I am living in this body. I know the business of my body, pains and pleasures, but I do not know what is the pains and pleasures of your body. You also do not know what is the pains and pleasures... Therefore we are individual. But Paramātmā, because He's there, He knows what is your pains and pleasure, what is my pains and pleasure. Not only you, but all living entities. That is Paramātmā. So those who are falsely claiming that "I am Paramātmā," this is the test: whether you are cognizant of everything?
Dr. Patel: Right.
Prabhupāda: Yes. But you cannot falsely claim that "I am Paramātmā," or "I am God." Whether you have got this all-pervading knowledge? This is the only test to the pretenders that he is God, he is Paramātmā.
Prabhupāda: They'll talk of Kṛṣṇa, so many things but they're not devotees. Just like Kaṁsa. They may talk of Kṛṣṇa or think of Kṛṣṇa, but they don't accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme. Therefore they are demons. This is the test. They'll read Bhagavad-gītā, but they'll not accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme. And that is the demonic. māyayāpahṛta-jñānā āsuriṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. Because they are demons, therefore their so-called knowledge is useless. Apahṛta-jñāna. And apparently, they seem to be very learned scholar, but there is no knowledge. There is no knowledge. This is the demonic... Just like Rāvaṇa. He was very much advanced student in Vedic literature. But he was a demon. So simply by studying Vedas one does not become out of the jurisdiction of demons. Just like Jarasandha. He was also worshiping Viṣṇu. But he was a demon. He was a demon. His purpose was different. The yajñic brāhmaṇas, they also could not understand Kṛṣṇa. So this is the crucial test. If one does not understand Kṛṣṇa and become submissive to surrender, he remains a demon, however big scholar he may be.
Prabhupāda: Vishva Hindu Parishad. What is this nonsense Vishva Hindu...? (chuckles) He does not know what is the meaning of Hindu. And his jñāna-yajña. Gītā jñāna yajña. He does not understand even a word of Gītā, and this rascal is preaching Bhagavad-gītā. This is going on. And he has made some name, people after him. People means if you flatter him, that "Whatever you are doing, it is all right."
Mahāṁśa: They will...
Prabhupāda: Then they will be very much pleased. And as soon as you criticize, that "You are doing this wrong, you will suffer." "Oh, yes, this Swamiji is not (indistinct)." That is going on everywhere. In the name of religion you do all nonsense rascaldom, and the leader approves, "Yes, you can do." Vivekananda did it. "Yes, there is no difference between eating meat and not eating eat in terms of religion system." He preached this, and all the sannyāsīs of the Ramakrishna Mission they eat meat, they drink, they have woman secretary, everything. This Chinmayananda is also like that. I know his whole mischief. Unless one is purely Kṛṣṇa conscious, one cannot give up all these bad habits. This is the test. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra caiṣa (SB 11.2.42). One... Unless one is substantially advanced in kṛṣṇa-bhakti, they cannot give up this material attachment—illicit sex, meat eating—they cannot. It is impossible. So even in the name of swami or big, big yogis... They are doing all these things. Especially those who go in foreign countries... In USA illicit sex is very cheap. Everything is very cheap. Yes. Intoxication very cheap, meat-eating very cheap, gambling, very cheap, so when they get this cheap amenities, they forget their so-called spiritual life.
Prabhupāda: Yes, in the spiritual life there is no sex life. In the spiritual world there is no sex intercourse. There is no sex life. Although there is man and woman, there is no sex intercourse. By chanting the glories of God there in the spiritual world, they get so much great pleasure that is far beyond this pleasure of sex life. If you have something best then you forget low grade pleasure. So this sex pleasure is lower grade pleasure. It is not pleasure, it is illusion, but in material world this is the greatest pleasure. Therefore everyone they are coming back to this sex pleasure, everyone. Even so-called religionists and swamis, they are coming down to the sex pleasure. Because in this material world that is the only highest pleasure. So, so long one will be attracted by the sex pleasure it is still in the material world. And when one will be on the platform to spite (spit) on sex pleasure, then his spiritual life begins. That is stated by Yāmunācārya. (Sanskrit). Yāmunācārya, a great saintly person, he was formerly big king, so he said, "Since I have become Kṛṣṇa conscious and enjoying, since that time, as soon as I remember even sex life, I spite (spit) on it and my mouth becomes turned." (laughter) This is the test. Not that you become very advanced spiritualist and at the same time advance in sex life. That is not. (Sanskrit) That is the test that as soon as you are advanced in spiritual life, all these materialistic habits will be rejected automatically. This is the test. Four things are material demands-eating, satisfaction of the tongue or belly and satisfaction of the genital, āhāra, and sleeping and to become a good defender, defense measure. These are material necessity. And the one who is spiritually advanced, these things will be reduced, almost nil.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, how can the position be reconciled if in Kṛṣṇa consciousness one of the two, the husband or the wife, wants to enjoy sense gratification, but the other does not? Should there be separation then?
Prabhupāda: No... They should be trained up. Sense enjoyment means not advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As soon as one is advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, his sense enjoyment spirit will be reduced. That is the test. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra ca (SB 11.2.42). The test is, how you are advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the proportionate diminishing of sense enjoyment. That is the test. Just like cure of the disease means diminishing the fever, temperature. This is the test.
Devotee (1): What if that fever is not being diminished?
Prabhupāda: Then he should try to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, instead of sixteen rounds, sixty-four rounds. That is the way. Sixteen round is the minimum. Otherwise Haridāsa Ṭhākura was 300,000. So you have to increase. That is the only remedy. If one has got determination, he will make progress without any trouble. That determination is very difficult, that determination, "I must be Kṛṣṇa conscious fully." That determination. Dṛḍha-vratāḥ.
Prabhupāda: These rascals say, "No, it will not be accepted." Just like yesterday they came, all the psychiatrists. As soon as we prescribed that "This is the prescription," they said, "Oh, it is impractical." I say that "Send your patients here. We shall make him instantly drugless." They will not accept it. "Oh, why not at home?" At home? And he will remain with the drug addict, and he will become drugless. Is it possible? The surrounding men, all drug addicts, and he will become drugless. How it is possible?
Amogha: Actually their hospital is a society where all the drug addicts get together.
Devotee (2): For a free cup of tea.
Prabhupāda: Good society. The group... We gave reference from Bhagavad-gītā, saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ. Association is required. Otherwise why we are opening so many centers? Just to give them the facility of association. These men are big rascals. The world is full of rascals, and the so-called leaders, they are big rascals, that's all. They cannot make any solution. Simply take salary. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). They are big rascals, and the small rascals accept them as leader. That's all.
Amogha: That is vox populi of the rascals.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. The whole world is rascal. Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is a rascal. Take it for granted. This is the test.
Prabhupāda: So if you come to the spiritual platform, the test is that you have no material necessities. So long you are diseased, you require medicine, but when you are not diseased there is no need of medicine. It is the healthy state. So so long we are materially diseased, we require all these material necessities. So when you are on the spiritual platform there is no material (indistinct). Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **, then you conquer over even our prime necessities, eating, sleeping, mating, and defense, the prime necessities the primary necessities, you don't require. You will sleep less, you will eat less, there is no need of mating, (indistinct), very less. So the lesser, lesser you become, that means spiritual. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra (SB 11.2.42). Your spiritual advancement means you become reluctant, disgusted with this, no more. Just like Yamunācārya, he explains his position,
- yadavadhi mama cetāḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayor
- nava-nava-(rasa-)dhaman(y udyataṁ) rantum āsīt
- tad-avadhi bata nārī-saṅgame smaryamāṇe
- bhavati mukha-vikāraḥ suṣṭhu niṣṭhīvanaṁ ca
"Since I have begun my Kṛṣṇa consciousness the more I advance I become very much detestful for sex life. As soon as I think of sex life I spite on it."
Dharmādhyakṣa: Spit?
Prabhupāda: This is the test. So long we have got taste for this material enjoyment, that means we are not advanced. Therefore the Vedic civilization is, voluntarily they give up this household life and become a sannyāsī, where there is no need of sex life. Then, after sannyāsa life, he becomes paramahaṁsa. That is Vedic civilization.
French devotee (2): They go to cinema because they have no adventures in their life. So they go to cinema. If they become Kṛṣṇa conscious, so they don't need to go to cinema.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa conscious is not so cheap. Have you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Don't take Kṛṣṇa consciousness so cheap that they will go to cinema and become Kṛṣṇa conscious.
Brahmānanda: No, he says that if they become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then they will stop going to the cinema.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the test. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. This is the test. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra (SB 11.2.42). Advancement of Kṛṣṇa consciousness means he's no more interested with anything material. That is Kṛṣṇa conscious. There is a Bengali proverb, ami dugdha khaya eta mako khaya: "The children, they take milk, and adults, they smoke." So one is speaking that "I take milk and smoke also."
Brahmānanda: He thinks he's all right. "I'm okay."
Prabhupāda: Yes. "I go to temple and I do all nonsense also."
Prabhupāda: Unless one understands Kṛṣṇa... Vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ (BG 15.15). Veda means knowledge. So all kinds of knowledge, they are aiming at the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So if one does not understand what is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then māyayāpahṛta-jñānā—he has no knowledge. Knowledge means ultimately he must know what is God. That is knowledge. Ye kṛṣṇa tattva vetta sei guru haya. Anyone who knows Kṛṣṇa, he becomes guru. Otherwise not. The first test is you may be scientist, philosopher, educationist, whatever you may be, but ask him, "Do you know Kṛṣṇa?" If he says, "No," then he is a fool. That's all. This is the test. (chuckles) Hare Kṛṣṇa. So Ambarisa Mahārāja, do you agree?
Ambarīṣa: Yes. It's a good test.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa said, "The rascals do not surrender to Me." So as soon as we see somebody not Kṛṣṇa conscious, we call him rascal. So what is the wrong there?
Indian man: It is not wrong.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says, na mā duṣkṛtino mūḍhā prapadyante narādhamāḥ. So we find out rascals, if he is not Kṛṣṇa conscious. So what is our fault? Kṛṣṇa says this is the test to find out who is a rascal. And who is rascal? Who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is a rascal. So if you are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, you are a rascal. We have to see through the śāstra characteristic of a rascal, that he is not Kṛṣṇa conscious. That's all. We may be fool, but we take lesson from Bhagavad-gītā. That's all. And from the lesson we understand you are rascal number one." That's all.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Bhavānanda: Then we will ask, how do we know who is really guru?
Prabhupāda: That is another rascaldom. You see how others are taking guru, paramparā system. You are rascal. You will place so many questions. But the answers are already there. Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2). Guru is he who knows Kṛṣṇa, who explains Kṛṣṇa. That is guru. Otherwise he's not guru.
Dayānanda: Samit-pāṇiḥ śrotriyaṁ brahma-niṣṭham (MU 1.2.12).
Prabhupāda: Ah. Anyone who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, who knows Kṛṣṇa, he is guru. Otherwise all rascals. Why should you go to a rascal? Immediately you can understand he is guru who has fully surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. He is guru. Others? They are all rascals. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Who has not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he is under these four groups: duṣkṛtina, mūḍha, narādhama, māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. They may talk of so much knowledge, but they are rascal fools because they have not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa. All the Māyāvādīs, they are all rascals. They have not surrendered. This is the test. Why don't you take lesson from Bhagavad-gītā? He is guru. One who has surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, one is servant of Kṛṣṇa, he is guru. That is the test. If you want to select a guru, you have to see "Whether this person is fully surrendered to Kṛṣṇa?" Then he is guru. Huh? What is the definition of guru given by...? Why don't you read all these things? Why you remain fools and rascals? Why...? We are following Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā. You become a guru. How? Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). That's a guru. Why don't you see all these instructions? And you are presenting yourself as following Caitanya Mahāprabhu? Why? Answer. Why you remain fool and rascal? If you want to remain fool and rascal and question, that is not very good. You must know who is guru. And you say, "I do not know who is guru." Why? Hm? What is the answer? Guru is defined by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. We are chanting daily, śrī kṛṣṇa caitanya prabhu nityānanda śrī advaita gadādhara śrī... Take their lesson. Otherwise why you are praying, śrī kṛṣṇa caitanya prabhu nityānanda? You, rather, glorify Hitler or Mussolini. Make them guru. Everything is there. You cannot say that "I do not understand." Do not understand means you do not take. What is the...? All right? (laughter)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What... Śrīla Prabhupāda, what are the qualifications of a perfect leader?
Prabhupāda: No mistake, no illusion, no cheating, no imperfection. Anyone who commits mistake, he's illusioned, he's a cheater and imperfect—he cannot lead. So bring any leader of these rascal groups and test with these four principles; he is misleader.
Trivikrama: They're all servants of their senses.
Madhudviṣa: They will also say that within our movement the so-called leaders also have imperfections.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Madhudviṣa: They will say, within our movement, that the leaders also have imperfection.
Prabhupāda: No imperfection.
Trivikrama: No imperfection.
Madhudviṣa: They will say, "Yes, we can give you examples."
Prabhupāda: No. No, no. Why? Why you shall accept? They will say. Because therefore they are saying, we shall accept?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's Prabhupāda. Here's Prabhupāda
Trivikrama: The so-called leaders, maybe they are imperfect, but the real leader, He is perfect.
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is test of.
Madhudviṣa: They will say, "He is also makes mistakes."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where is that mistake?
Prabhupāda: No, there is no mistake.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have not seen any mistakes.
Gurudāsa: Where is the mistake?
Prabhupāda: There is no mistake.
Gurudāsa: Jaya.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What would you define...
Prabhupāda: If you think your leader is mistaken, then you are mistaken. (laughter)
Mahendra: Like a mirror. You see a mistake but it's yourself.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: The leader of mistake-therefore immediately gives evidence from śāstra. What is the use of quoting from the śāstra? "Just to prove that I am not mistaken, here is the proof."
Madhudviṣa: They would say that there is a way of life which is perfect, but all men are imperfect. There is a way of life.
Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore they... Because you are imperfect, therefore you have to accept the leadership of a perfect person.
Madhudviṣa: They will say no one is perfect.
Prabhupāda: No, that is the... That is your ignorance.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You have never seen...
Prabhupāda: Now, just like blind man says, "Nobody is with eyes. Because I am blind, so everyone is blind." Ātmavat manyate jagat. That is the way.
Prabhupāda: Gentleman means that if you go to a gentleman's store, "Beware of the dog. Beware of the revolver." This is your culture. And when you go to the airport everyone is searched out, pocket. So who is gentleman? Is that gentleman? There is no gentleman in the world. All rogues and thieves, cheaters, bluffers. Now we are creating gentlemen. Otherwise there is no gentlemen. Here is the proof. If we are gentleman, why we are being checked in the airport? Hm? This is the proof. There is no gentlemen.
Akṣayānanda: Because they're not expecting any gentlemen.
Prabhupāda: That means there is no.... In other words, there is no gentlemen.
Akṣayānanda: Yes. They're only expecting rogues.
Prabhupāda: Sometimes.... In most cases they do not check me. "This is gentleman." And there is all..., no gentlemen. And this is the test, how to test a gentleman, that one who is not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa.... Or one who is surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he is gentleman. Kṛṣṇa says that
- na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
- prapadyante narādhamāḥ
- māyayāpahṛta-jñānā
- āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
- (BG 7.15)
So anyone who has not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he is not gentleman. Bas. That is the test. He is not a gentleman.
Devotee (3): Śrīla Prabhupāda, you said that if we serve Kṛṣṇa we will enjoy, and if we serve māyā then we suffer. How can we get over our desire to serve māyā and enjoy separately from Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Pradyumna: Says in the material world when we try to enjoy we suffer. When we try to enjoy we suffer? Then how will we get over our desire? And when we serve Kṛṣṇa we become happy. But how will we get over our desire to serve māyā? The attachment is strong.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Pradyumna: He says how will we get over the desire to serve māyā, to try to enjoy ourselves in this material world?
Prabhupāda: Serve Kṛṣṇa.
Pradyumna: It says here that yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. One obtaining this actual service of Kṛṣṇa, when one tastes the service of Kṛṣṇa, then he sees any other gain, he does not consider anything else. "Established thus, one never departs from the truth, and upon gaining this he thinks there is no greater gain." So when you actually taste the service of Kṛṣṇa, then you won't consider anything else to be worthy of your effort. But when we do think something else to be worthy of our effort then it means that we haven't, we're not becoming advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We're not developed. We should try to develop to that point. We have to develop. Prabhupāda says this is the test of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that you will not want to depart from Kṛṣṇa consciousness to enjoy himself in material nature. And when one still wants to do that, that means he hasn't advanced to that point of stability in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Dṛḍha-vrata, who's completely fixed in his service. Avasthitiḥ. Yatra sthito na calati. When one is situated there, he doesn't depart from there, he doesn't want to go out from there. So we have to reach that point.
Devotee (3): So, Śrīla Prabhupāda, if at this platform we are not yet..., we are still desiring to depart from Kṛṣṇa's service and enjoy, then we are not, we have not yet tasted devotional service, what is it that we have tasted that is keeping us temporarily connected to Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: That is the Vedic injunction: You keep yourself connected with Kṛṣṇa, then you will develop the taste. Just like a jaundice patient does not taste sugar as sweet, but if he continues to take sugar candy, then he will have the real taste for sugar candy, sweet, not bitter. So he has to continue to eat sugar candy continually. Śravaṇam, kīrtanam. Then he'll have the taste.
Kulādri: But the patient must be intelligent to keep.... Even though he does not want...
Prabhupāda: Patient is always rascal fool. You cannot expect him to be intelligent. He must agree to the physician's directions. That is intelligence. He must know that he's diseased, he must follow the instruction of the physician. That much will help him. Unless one is rascal, he does not fall sick. As soon as you violate the hygienic principles, you become sick.
Prabhupāda: So sometimes the spiritual master says that "You remain silent for twelve years." So (laughter) instead of talking nonsense, you remain silent for twelve years. That is mauna. Because as soon as you'll talk, you'll be captured where you are. Better not to talk. This is mauna-vrata. But one who is devotee, why he'll not...? He'll talk about Kṛṣṇa. Vācāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane. Always talking about Kṛṣṇa. Why he should be silent? If he remains silent, then people will not get the benefit. Let him speak always of Kṛṣṇa. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that yāre dekho tāre kaho kṛṣṇa-upadeśa. Whomever you meet, you simply talk about Kṛṣṇa, what He has taught in the Bhagavad-gītā. You become guru. So why guru will stop? Guru will speak. But what kind of speaking? What Kṛṣṇa has spoken. Not nonsense. Not like that: "I have painted so many pictures, therefore I have become God realized." Where Bhagavān says "By painting pictures one may..." He does not say, Kṛṣṇa does not say. He has invented this. So therefore our test is, whether he's a bona fide guru, whether he's talking what Kṛṣṇa has said. Then he's guru. Otherwise a rascal. That's all, finished. Why should we bother? This is the test. If he's speaking, repeating the same thing, what Kṛṣṇa said, then he's guru. If he's talking something else, then he's rascal. Immediately take it. If you know this art, how to detect the rascal and guru, the test is already there. Where is the difficulty?
Indian man: What does, as you were telling about Gandhi and Aurobindo or Tilak or Gyaneshwar. What...
Prabhupāda: No, no. Why you are asking? You study then whether they have spoken something else or Bhagavad-gītā. It is your business. Why you are asking me? But we say anyone who says against Bhagavad-gītā, he's a rascal.
Indian man: No, but they have said something in favor of Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: But I don't see that they have made one single Kṛṣṇa bhakta, neither they were Kṛṣṇa bhakta. What kind of Bhagavad-gītā they have read I do not know. I see by the result. The last word of Bhagavad-gītā is man-manā bhava mad-bhakto... Mām eva... Sarva-dharmān. That is study of Bhagavad-gītā. They do not speak of Kṛṣṇa anywhere, that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person, you become a devotee." Now how he has read Bhagavad-gītā? I shall take it? Simply make jugglery of words? We have to see the result. They have neither made one Kṛṣṇa bhakta, neither they were Kṛṣṇa bhakta. How he has read Bhagavad-gītā? Tell me. This is the test. They... Whole country is after Gandhi or Aurobindo or big, big. But who is Kṛṣṇa bhakta under their direction? Now we are simply following Caitanya Mahāprabhu, yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Just see. Thousands are become Kṛṣṇa bhakta. See by practical.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: The real thing is that guru is there, Kṛṣṇa is there. And we are presenting. We are not manufacturing. I do not say that I am guru. Our business is to present what Kṛṣṇa has said. That's all. Therefore I'm guru. Guru is he who speaks Kṛṣṇa's word. That is guru. And if he manufactures, then he is a cheater.
Guest (1): This is the test of guru.
Prabhupāda: This is the test. Guru... The supreme guru is Kṛṣṇa, and anyone canvasses for Kṛṣṇa, he is guru, guru's represent... Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya. That guru will never say that "Kṛṣṇa is dead and gone. I am now guru. I am Kṛṣṇa. I am avatāra." That is rascaldom. So if you want such rascal, then you'll be cheated.
Prabhupāda: Faith means extreme faith. Not reserved. Faith does not mean any reservation. What is that? Bhajate mām ananya-bhāk. This is... Ananya-bhāk. No reservation. That is... Sādhur eva. He is sādhu. Whatever he does, it doesn't matter. Bhajate mām ananya-bhāk. Sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). He sādhu. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, bhajanty ananya-manaso (BG 9.13). These are the words. Require staunch faithful devotion. Then you are perfect. Then doesn't matter what you are, what you are doing. Whether the real point is fixed up. Bhajate mām ananya-bhāk. Fifty percent, ten percent devotion...
Dr. Patel: Not even .001 percent reservation. I mean so far the bhakti's concerned. Bhaktya avyabhicareṇa.
Prabhupāda: That is. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhuyaya (BG 14.26). Even in the Brahman platform. Not in the material platform. Sa guṇān samatītya. Sama-prakarena utītya(?). Cent percent utītya(?).
Dr. Patel: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is credit.
Dr. Patel: This is credit, and this is also, I mean, that this should happen also...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Here is the right movement. This is the test.
Prabhupāda: Both the dhīra and adhīra will enjoy this kṛṣṇa-kīrtana. This our movement, is for the dhīra. And adhīra also, if he joins this movement, even adhīra also becomes dhīra. This is the test. Dhīrādhīra-jana-priyau priya-karau. So we should not be adhīra. That is the perfection of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Adhīra means to remain in the material world. So long we are adhīra, there is no chance of going back home, back to Godhead. This is the tapasya, to remain dhīra.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (Hindi conversation) So naturally he'll be averse to māyā. He's no more interested. (Hindi) This is the test. Kṛṣṇa-bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavaḥ. (Hindi) There is no need of separate endeavor. (Hindi) The first line Kṛṣṇa says that aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase, gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti (BG 2.11). (Hindi) (Hindi conversation) Find out this, teṣām evānukampārtham (BG 10.11), mṛtyu-saṁsāra-sāgarāt. (Hindi) Read it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
- teṣām ahaṁ samuddhartā
- mṛtyu-saṁsāra-sāgarāt
- bhavāmi na cirāt pārtha
- mayy āveśita-cetasām
- (BG 12.7)
Prabhupāda: No. Teṣām evānukampārtham.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:
- teṣām evānukampārtham
- aham ajñāna-jaṁ tamaḥ
- nāśayāmy ātma-bhāva-stho
- jñāna-dīpena bhāsvatā
- (BG 10.11)
"Out of compassion for them, I, dwelling in their hearts, destroy with the shining lamp of knowledge the darkness born of ignorance."
Prabhupāda: Pāpī tāpī jata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo. This is our position. We have to select our worker from the worst class of the society, pāpī and tāpī. But, we shall prove, by hari-nāma they become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the movement. You trace the history of everyone. All worst, third class. And they come here. And that is Kṛṣṇa conscious movement. How many Doctor Svarūpa has come? If we speak frankly, (laughter) all from the worst class. Those who were finished. And Kṛṣṇa... It is said, pāpī-tāpī jata chilo. Pāpī and tāpī, they are not first class. They are the tenth class. Pāpī-tāpī jata chilo hari-nāme uddhārilo. This is the test of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's movement, that how many pāpī-tāpīs have been picked up. Brajendra-nandana jei, śaci-suta hoilo sei, balarāma hoilo nitāi. This is Gaura-Nitāi. What is their business? Now, pāpī-tāpī jata chilo, hari-nāme uddhārilo. "Bas? This is their business?" Yes, to deliver all the pāpīs and tāpīs. "So how is that?" Tāra sākṣī jagāi and mādhāi. See Jagāi-Mādhāi. It is not imaginary. So we have to deliver all Jagāis and Mādhāis. This is our movement. That is the test of the, of us. It is not sorry for that, but still, they should act like good men.
| Page Title: | This is the test (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Matea, MadhuGopaldas |
| Created: | 06 of Oct, 2009 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=27, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 27 |