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There is no question (Conversations 1977)

Expressions researched:
"no question" |"there can be no question" |"there could be no question" |"there is no question" |"there was no question" |"there will be no question" |"without any question"

Conversations and Morning Walks

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Everyone will throw a stone. Very tortuous death, stoning.

Hari-śauri: I remember my auntie's mother. She was Italian, and she used to wear black all the time. Just like the widows here, they wear white, so she was wearing black. She was a widow. So all the widows, even I saw some young women...

Prabhupāda: Here also, in Gujarat, they wear black, black sari.

Hari-śauri: Yes, right. And they wear black, and they don't dress attractively at all, and there's no question of marrying again.

Prabhupāda: And Russia also, respectable widows, they used to live in widow's home. They would never marry.

Hari-śauri: And they would wear black too.

Prabhupāda: I have seen that house when I was in Moscow. That was one of the... What is called...? They go to see, especially tourists.

Hari-śauri: Red Square?

Prabhupāda: Red Square. No, I mean to say what is that called when they go to see specially something? Foreign Mecca(?).

Hari-śauri: Sightseeing.

Prabhupāda: That, no. Sightseeing. So anyway, they took us to a house.

Hari-śauri: Oh, you went on a sightseeing tour.

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This, falsely to become proud: "We... We have done." What I am at the present? That is to be taken, not that... Now in Bengal... "Fourteen generations before my father took ghee, and I have got a smell." (laughs) What is that? Whether you are eating ghee or not, that is talk, not that "Fourteen generations before my father and forefathers ate ghee, and I have got the smell here." (laughs)

Dr. Patel: No, we talk of Vedic culture, sir.

Prabhupāda: Vedic culture is all right now. There is no question of "we" or "you."

Dr. Patel: But why it is not with them?

Prabhupāda: Why it is not with you? First of all say why you are challenging them? (laughter) First of all challenge yourself.

Dr. Patel: (laughing) That's right. But they have not, their forefathers have got. We have at least with our forefathers.

Prabhupāda: No, no, their forefathers are the Aryans, the same forefathers, your forefathers.

Dr. Patel: They're Aryans, but they did not take the Vedic culture with them.

Prabhupāda: They did not take. You are not taking. That's the same thing.

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Mahāṁsa: Don't be extravagant.

Prabhupāda: You should always know that hard-earned money is... By working at night I am producing book, and they're working there hard, selling the books, and money is coming in that way. So either he or me, mine or yours, it is hard-earned money. It is not easily coming. And therefore we should be cautious. But there is no question of curtailing. There is no question.

Mahāṁsa: Now we are in the process of making a brochure so that we can present to trusts and foundations for bigger donations for the farm project.

Prabhupāda: That's nice. They have amassed money. Let them spend for this village organization. This is real Gandhi's program. He wanted this village organization. But because they manufactured their own way, it was not successful. But if we follow this principle, it will be successful, without any doubt. These big, big āśrama... Gandhi's āśrama is vacant. No. They are getting money, but they have no such program.

Dr. Patel: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: It must be, because there is no solid program. There is no solid program, simply imagination.

Dr. Patel: No. Because the followers...

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Mm, hm.

Indian Lady: (reads a paper praising the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement and describing activities of groups against the movement-much of this indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Actually you have seen in our Māyāpur there is no question Hindu, Muslim, everyone takes prasādam. There is no question.

Indian Lady: (continues reading)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) It is great, fortunate that you are trying to understand. So if you try to understand this philosophy, you understand it is not the so-called religion, it is a culture for benefit of the whole human society, para-upakāra. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, para-upakāra. Because people are in the darkness of knowledge, to enlighten them, to come to the light, that is Vedic injunction, tamasi mā jyotir gamaḥ. Do not remain in darkness, come to the light. So our attempt is to bring these people who are kept in different types of, or different standards of darkness, to bring them to light. This is our position. It is not sectarian. Not for the Hindus, not for the Indians, but it is meant for the whole human society. Kṛṣṇa never said that He's Hindu or He's Indian. He says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ tāsāṁ mahad yonir brahma ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). He never says that "I am for the Hindu or for the Indians." Sarva-yoniṣu. There are 8,400,000 species of different types of life. That is the fact, bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10). Wherefrom the life is coming? These rascals, they do not understand what is actual science, how things are going on, how the laws of nature is working. Simply superficially, "We have got some ideas." Fundamentally they have no knowledge. So we are trying to enlighten them with our teeny effort.

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, Brahma-bhūtaḥ... Where is that brahma-bhūtaḥ?

Dr. Patel: Then he mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param. Then he gets the real... Otherwise body conscious people cannot do the bhakti without becoming brahma-bhūtaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Brahma-bhūtaḥ. Everyone is śarīra-bhūtaḥ.

Dr. Patel: That is what I was telling you. And everyone was śarīre kuṇape tri-dhātuke.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So unless one is brahma-bhūtaḥ, there is no question of advancing in spiritual life. (break) ...parihṛtya kartam.

devarṣi-bhūtāpta-nṛṇāṁ pitṟṇāṁ
nāyam ṛṇī na kiṅkaro rājan
sarvātmanā yaḥ śaraṇaṁ śaraṇyaṁ
gato mukundaṁ parihṛtya kartam
(SB 11.5.41)

Finished, no more duty: "I simply surrender to Kṛṣṇa." He is liberated. Sarvātmanā yaḥ śaraṇaṁ śaraṇyaṁ gato mukundaṁ parihṛtya kartam. "I have no more duty." That is the brahma-bhūtaḥ stage, when one thinks, prasannātmā, "Why I am suffering this unnecessary...?" (break) Devarṣi-bhūtāpta-nṛṇāṁ pitṟṇām (SB 11.5.41).

Morning Walk -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You can know from Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā. It is open to everyone. If you cannot understand, then go to guru. He will explain to you. "And how to know it?" You cannot say. "Keep to the left" is there. You cannot say that "I did not know the law." You have deviated. Why you have gone to the right? The signboard is there, "Keep to the left." You have gone to the right; you are criminal, must be punished. So Kṛṣṇa comes personally, and He is giving instruction. How can you say, "How to know?" This is criminal. This is criminal to say that you do not know what to do; you do not see God. God has given the law. There is no question how to know. Know it! Tad viddhi praṇipātena (BG 4.34). Tad viddhi. Know it! Why you are neglecting? Tad viddhi. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). That, if you do not... What is called? Ignorance of law is no excuse. You cannot say in the court, "Sir, I did not know the law." Aiye. You know or not know; you have violated the law; you must be punished. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Trivikrama: Once you know, then everyone is benefited. Your family is not neglected.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Girirāja: They won't understand.

Prabhupāda: Mass of people, let them chant and dance and take prasāda. So these centers are being opened for mass movement as well as class movement. In the village there is... Hardly you'll get good, educated men. So there is no question of philosophy. Given them chance of chanting and take prasāda. It is useless to talk before them our philosophy. They'll never understand. But they will understand prasādam. Prasādam is so nice. If there are few grains of prasāda, even the crows will come, the condemned bird. (laughs) He will also come. You do like this. So if this has been settled, do that.

Haṁsadūta: I think Mahāṁsa would rather manage the farm himself.

Prabhupāda: Then... You think... I do not know, but manage somehow or other. I want that prasāda distribution must go on. People should come in numbers, increase. Whatever you can produce, spend for that purpose. We are not going to produce foodstuff for our starving... It is for them. When they'll understand, they'll work voluntarily: "Yes, it's for us." We are not capitalists.

Trivikrama: Now there's ārati, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Girirāja: It is a big philosophy, that everything is simply based on following the order of Kṛṣṇa without any expectation of any gain.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Asnani: So he's the head of the department and entire building, that Sarvaji about whom I'm talking to you. Earlier he was at Hykerbol(?) and that is the flow(?) on fourth side, near Churchgate. And, Prabhupāda, I may give him... (break)

Prabhupāda: It is a superstition that one should not lie down keeping the head on the northern side. So one says that "I have no head at all. So why shall I bother about keeping my head this way or that way?" Similarly, keep no head, so there will be no question of keeping northern side or southern side. That I want. We have no such program. You spend all money. I want that whatever collection is there, you spend. There is no account, and there will be no question of income tax. We are beggars. Whatever money you get, you spend. That's all.

Mr. Asnani: So your books will also show you, ultimately at end of year, expenditure, income, equalized, neutralized.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I am insisting: whatever money we have got in the bank, spend it for printing. Keep the books. That's all. I am insisting this point everywhere. You kept that money seven thousand, seven lakhs or what?

Haṁsadūta: I was going to spend it. I spent every month, but they came at the end of the month.

Prabhupāda: Therefore the botheration came, in Germany. He was waiting for sending the money for food distribution. In the meantime, they created trouble. Anyway, we should be free like that. Spend all money immediately. (break) I say that, that don't keep any more money in the bank. Spend it.

Mr. Asnani: And keep the receipts and vouchers.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Why this Bhārata-varṣa, Bharata Mahārāja, at the twenty-four years of age and his wife was young, children were young, and he was emperor of the whole world, so why went voluntarily to become empty stomach? He was not poverty-stricken. But why he accepted?

Devotee: Tapasya.

Mr. Asnani: No, he realized that the material world is not the solution.

Prabhupāda: There is no question of empty stomach. God is supplying food to the ant, and why shall I remain empty stomach? Śukadeva Gosvāmī has said, cīrāṇi kiṁ pathi na santi diśanti bhikṣāṁ. Find out this verse. Kasmād bhajanti kavayo dhana-durmadāndhān (SB 2.2.5). Cīrāṇi kiṁ na santi, pathi.

Girirāja: Is it the First Canto?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The first word is cīrāṇi. C-i-r-a-n-i.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Cīrāṇi.

Girirāja: Is it cira-vasa...?

Prabhupāda: No, no, cīrāṇi there is. I think it is Second Canto. Maybe Second Canto.

Girirāja: Yes. I have it.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not? He says ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo (BG 18.66). Distress will be if I am disobedient. This is nature's law. And if I surrender to Kṛṣṇa, where is the question of distress? Sukha se saba hari bhaje duḥkha se haje. This is one Hindi poetry, that "When one is in distressed condition, he goes to God: 'Please save me. Give me this mercy.' " So duḥka se means: "In distressed condition he becomes a devotee." But if he becomes a devotee when he's happy, then where is the question of duḥkha, or distress? Sukha se saba hari bhaje. When you are happy, at that time if you worship Hari, then there is no question of duḥkha. That Vivekananda's policy, daridra-nārāyaṇa-seva. Why not seva-nārāyaṇa? Why He should become daridra? Why not engage in? That he does not know. "He becomes a daridra-nārāyaṇa, and I become his servant." Foolish rascal. A discovered philosophy. (end)

Arrival of BBT Manager -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (break)

Rāmeśvara: I can show you this later. This is a copy of a newsletter that we have intercepted from the enemy camp. We have our newsletter, and they also have their newsletter. So we have gotten ourselves on their mailing list, so we can find out all their strategy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. When there is fight these things are studied. (Hindi) When there is fight there is no question of immoral or moral. "We must get victory," that's all. Kṛṣṇa did it. Kṛṣṇa asked...

Hari-śauri: According to this, they've made it legal, deprogramming. They're making it legal that they can hold a person by force until they break him mentally.

Jagadīśa: Rāmeśvara? Are there many of our devotees who've been deprogrammed, or are they mostly other groups?

Rāmeśvara: Mostly the others. Śrīla Prabhupāda, the business of the Book Trust has gotten very big. So the warehouse in Los Angeles has become too small. So we have gotten a new warehouse.

Prabhupāda: We have got a warehouse like Howrah Station.

Rāmeśvara: This is a picture of the new building.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Looks very nice.

Rāmeśvara: It's not yet completed. They are building it just for us.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Believe or not believe, that is another thing. But if you want to live worthy, then you have to study Bhagavad-gītā. You believe... Just like somebody believes or not believes in dehāntara, but nature's course will go on. Young man thinks "I'll remain young. I shall not become old man." He may believe like that, but he has to become old man. That is nature's law. So there is no question of "believe" or "not believe." If you believe, then you are benefited; if you don't believe, you go to hell. It is not the question of belief. I was speaking in South Africa in a university. So one gentleman, Arya-samāji said... When I was explaining tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ, so he objected that "Why you bring Hindu belief?" "And, nonsense, it is Hindu belief?" It is said that kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā: one boy is becoming young man. Is this for Hindu? It is not for the Muslim? And he said "Hindu belief." Such a fool he is. He said, "It is Hindu belief." Kṛṣṇa is giving this example. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanam (BG 2.13). Kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. So does it mean that Hindus only from kaumāra become yuvaka, and from yuvaka to old man, and the Muslims, they do not? It is science! You believe or not believe. If you don't take the fact, then your life is missing. What is the question? Two plus two equal to four—it is not Hindu calculation, Muslim calculation or Christian calculation. You cannot say that "No, according to our Muslim calculation, two plus two equal to five." Two plus two is always four, either for a Hindu or Muslim or Christian. So whatever is spoken in the Bhagavad-gītā, that is for understanding of the human society. Why do you take: "It is Hindu belief. It is Indian belief"? It is science. That is our misfortune, that a science we are accepting as a kind of belief, faith. And that we are neglecting. That is our misfortune.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is... You... You have been taught that Kṛṣṇa is an ordinary person, maybe little more in knowledge. That you are taking like that. Kūpa-maṇḍuka-nyāya. Kūpa-maṇḍa, the toad in the well, he is informed, "Oh, I have seen one Atlantic Ocean." So he is thinking "Atlantic Ocean may be.... This well is three feet. It may be four feet. Or five. Come on, ten." These rascals are thinking like that—avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā (BG 9.11)—that "Kṛṣṇa may be more intelligent by one feet or two feet. Let us compromise-ten feet." This is going on. And Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat: (BG 7.7) "I am the Supreme." They won't believe. They'll manufacture their ideas. This is going on. Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). They won't believe that. And still, they'll declare, "I am student of Bhagavad-gītā." They won't believe a word of Kṛṣṇa, and they'll say, "I am student of Bhagavad-gītā." This is going on. This is our position. In India everyone says, "I have read Bhagavad-gītā three hundred times," but he does not know even a word. So this should be stopped. If we want to advance actually, you take every word of Bhagavad-gītā and try to apply in life. Then everyone will be happy. That is a fact. The instruction is there. There is no difficulty to understand. There is no question of interpretation. Simply take it as it is and try to apply it in life—you'll be happy. And your human life will be successful. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). Up to this human form of life, we have passed through so many evolutionary process, but if you understand Kṛṣṇa, then, after leaving this body, no more material body.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) The starting is there. Icchā-dveṣa-samutthena sarge yānti parantapa (BG 7.27). (Hindi) Kṛṣṇa bhūliyā jīva bhoga vāñchā kare, pāśate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare. As soon as you desire like this, that "I shall become God," so immediately there is māyā. That is māyā. So when you are entangled in māyā, then there is question of mukti. The mukti means muktir hitvā 'nyathā rūpaṁ svarūpena avasthitiḥ. This is mukti. Mukti means when we are acting differently. That is my condition. That is my bondage. And when I act according to my original position, that is mukti. So everyone is acting here to become master. So there is no question of mukti. As soon as you understand that "My real position is I am servant of God, so let me act as serv..."—then it is mukti. Hitvā 'nyathā rūpam. At the present moment we are trying to act as master. So you give it down, up. Act as servant. Then you are mukta. Therefore a bhakta is mukta. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate. Māṁ ca yo 'vyabhicareṇa-bhakti-yogena sevate (BG 14.26). Anyone who is engaged as bhakta, he is mukta. All are conditioned. So if you become bhakta, if you surrender to Kṛṣṇa, immediately mukti, instantly. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo (BG 18.66). You are conditioned, you are bound up on account of your sinful activities. So Kṛṣṇa says, "I'll give you relief from all the reaction of sinful activity. You surrender." So mukti means one second. You surrender to Kṛṣṇa. It takes one second. But that is very difficult. That requires many, many births. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). After many, many births of suffering, when he comes to the knowledge that "I am servant of Kṛṣṇa. Why I am trying to become master?" that is jñānavān. And then he surrenders to.... Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā (BG 7.19). That is mahātmā. It takes one second.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Surrender, this is surrender, that... First of all, why you surrender? You must know it perfectly well that "Kṛṣṇa is master; I am servant." Otherwise there is no question of surrender. Then you have to believe that "Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi. So now I have surrendered. I have no more fear. Kṛṣṇa will give me protection." To believe firmly... "Kṛṣṇa is all powerful. Kṛṣṇa is my master. He is not a fakir, that He's talking nonsense." We have to believe that. This is surrender. If you think, "Kṛṣṇa is another fakir like me. He's talking nonsense," then that is not surrender. You have to believe that. That is explained in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, that śraddhā śabde viśvāsa niścaya. This is śraddhā. Sraddha is the beginning. That śraddhā means when you firmly believe in Kṛṣṇa: "Yes, He'll give me protection." That is surrender. Kṛṣṇe bhakti kaile sarva-karma kṛta haya. When you come to this stage, firmly believe in the words of Kṛṣṇa, that is surrender. First of all, you have to check yourself whether you firmly believe in the words of God. If you don't believe, there is no question of surrender. Then you remain where you are. This is firm belief: "Kṛṣṇa says that He will give me protection. So let me surrender. I have surrendered to māyā. I have not become happy. So why not surrender to Kṛṣṇa?" This is intelligence. You are not free. Then why you are declaring yourself as free? This is your disease. So intelligent means that I have no freedom actually. I am acting under the dictation of my senses. I am servant of my senses. So why not become servant of Kṛṣṇa? This is intelligent. Everyone is acting under senses, order of the senses. Kāmādinām kathidhā na kathidā palitā durni-deśaḥ. Even I don't want to do it, something wrong, but my senses are dictating, so "All right, let me do it." So we are... I am servant of the senses. My position is twofold. Either I become the servant of the senses or I become servant of Kṛṣṇa. My position is the same. Simply I have to change it.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is... The significance is sādhu-saṅga, purification. Our Vedic principle is: whatever is enjoined in the Vedas, we should accept it without any argument. That is Vedic injunction. This example we give generally: just like śaṅkha. Śaṅkha is the bone of an animal. So according to Vedic system, if you touch the bone of an animal, dead body animal, then you have to take bath immediately. But the śaṅkha is pure. Now, you cannot argue that "It is the bone of an animal. You say one place that 'Bone of animal is impure. You have to take bath; you have touched it,' and this śaṅkha is in their Deity worship? It is contradictory." But because it is stated in the Vedas, you have to accept. This is Vedic injunction. You cannot argue. There is no question of arguing. Just like cow dung is the stool of an animal. Even if we touch my own stool, I take bath. But cow dung, it is said, it is pure. If there is anywhere impure, you smear the cow dung; it will be pure. Now, you can argue that "It is stool of an animal. How it becomes pure?" This argument will not... So Vedic knowledge means don't argue. You have to accept it. Acintyaḥ khalu ye bhava na tas tarkena yojayet. Things... There are many things which is beyond your perception, so you have to accept the Vedic injunction. Then you are right. So if the Vedic injunction is: "In such and such moment you take a bath in the Ganges; you become purified," you take it. There is no question of argument. That is faith. Now faith must be there. Vedo-praṇihito dharmaḥ. Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Everything is there. Can you find out this verse from the Sixth Canto?

Jagadīśa: I know the verse.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That's it. Sthito 'smi gata-sandehaḥ. Kariṣye vacanam. This is liberation: "Now I am fixed up," sthito 'smi, "All doubts gone." This is real study of Bhagavad-gītā. And promises, kariṣye vacanam: "All right, I shall fight. I shall kill Bhiṣmadeva. Never mind he's my grandfather. No question of nonviolence. I shall commit violence." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Because naṣṭo mohaḥ... "It was my mohaḥ. I was thinking in that way, that 'He's my grandfather. He's my brother. He's my nephew.' These are all nonsense. I have to satisfy You." Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). That is ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167). Bhakti means to act to satisfy to Kṛṣṇa. That is bhakti. Without any argument, what Kṛṣṇa says, that's all right.

Guest (10): Unconditional.

Prabhupāda: Unconditional. That is surrender. If we read Bhagavad-gītā in that way, then sthito 'smi, then sthita prajñā. And if you make cut short... Arjuna said, sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yan māṁ vadasi keśava (BG 10.14). "Keśava, whatever You have said, I accept it in total." That is surrender. No cut short.

Guest (12) (Indian man): Fulfills all requirements, mental requirements.

Prabhupāda: I'll request Bajaji. You are, yourself, your wife and your sister, and our Śrīman Nārāyaṇaji, all, you are all very intelligent. You take this Bhagavad-gītā preaching seriously. That is my request. Not cut short (Hindi). No cut short. Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye (BG 10.14). What is that verse?

Hari-śauri: Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yan māṁ vadasi keśava (BG 10.14).

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: If they have no conception, we should give them conception that the body is dead, decomposed, then where is the sex? Where is the inclination? Similarly, the soul originally... As it is said in the Vedānta-sūtra, that "Everything is coming from Brahman." Athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now let us talk about Brahman." This is the meaning of athāto brahma-jijñāsāh. Then next verse is..., sūtra, code-janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). And Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo (BG 10.8). So unless sex comes from God... It may be perverted in the material world. That is another thing. But originally, pure sex must be there in God. Otherwise how it comes? Everything is emanating from the Supreme. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). So how you can say there is no sex? Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura explains that janmādy asya, ādi-rasa. Ādi. Ādi-rasa means sex enjoyment. So he has explained that sex has come from... Because we have used perverted sex, we have got a very bad idea. But actually sex is there in the original. Otherwise there is no question of mādhurya-rasa. Hlādinī-śakti. There is no question of sex. You do not understand Absolute. The opposition party will inquire you, but sex is originally from Brahman. That is why...

Rāmeśvara: His argument was that when Kṛṣṇa was here, He was having friendship with the gopīs, who were married to other men.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: This is immoral.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: No, at least we shall try to make closed. And if people become localized, then this traffic will be little. Just like I am trying to organize the farm. If people do not come out of home, then this system will be obsolete. There will be no more department. They have created hundreds. They do not know how to manage it. For livelihood they have to go to Bombay, and therefore they require so many local trains. But if they localized, they can get their livelihood locally, there is no question of these all...

Rāmeśvara: In America this is becoming the number-one problem—unemployment.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They must be. Artificial employment. (train re-starts)

Rāmeśvara: People go to college in America; they can no longer get jobs. They spend so many years going to college getting their degree. So now they cannot find any jobs.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the position in America. And what to speak of this country. Therefore, after being educated they go to foreign countries. You'll find so many Indians in educational labs(?) in your country, because they don't get any suitable jobs. (break) ...their so many departments will be closed.

Rāmeśvara: It's possible in India but not in America.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: No argument! This is fact!

Rāmeśvara: Yes, this is fact.

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Prabhupāda: There is no question of argument.

Rāmeśvara: No. He's not arguing that.

Prabhupāda: You cannot do. You are so poor that you are afraid to marry because you have to take so much responsibility.

Rāmeśvara: He wants to know, then, why didn't Jesus Christ say all these things about Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Jesus may be fool. That doesn't mean everyone should be fool.

Rāmeśvara: They believe Jesus came to this world to teach people about God.

Prabhupāda: "Jesus... Jesus had to speak to rascals and fools like you. Therefore he did not speak." This is the argument. "Because you are such a fool that Jesus said, 'Thou shall not kill'—your first business was to kill him. So you are so nice, advanced men. Now, what he'll speak to you? He knew that you are all rascals. Even the one word you cannot understand, 'Thou shall not kill.' So what you will understand? Therefore Jesus Christ did not say." Give them this answer. Jesus Christ was perfect, but because you are rascals, he did not say, because you could not understand even his one word. You are so intelligent. His commandment is "Thou shall not kill," but your business is to kill him first. How far you are advanced and civilized, just imagine. And you want perfect instruction. You cannot follow even one instruction. That is your position. In this way try to understand. "Jesus had to deal with rascals like you.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: No, my... Of course, I did not attempt in the beginning. I started my activities when I was seventy years old. So they thought, "This man is gṛhastha. He is embarassed with family life. What he'll do?" (laughs) That was their impression. But I never neglected. Guru Mahārāja told me. I was simply thinking, "How to do it? How to do it?" I thought, "Let me become a rich businessman. The money will be required." That was my thought. But Guru Mahārāja was asking me, "You give up this. I'll give you money." That I could not understand. I was planning. My plan was not wrong. But I was thinking "The money required, so let me earn some money. Then I shall begin." And Guru Mahārāja said, "You give up this money-earning endeavor. You come completely. I'll give you money." I can understand now. But my desire was there. Therefore he guided me. So I was... In 1936 or '35 in Bombay, after installation of Deity, so—I was gṛhastha—I helped them to collect some money. All my Godbrothers applauded and recommended to Guru Mahārāja that "Abhay Babu is so influential. Why he lives outside the temple? He can become the temple commander and manage this Bombay temple. Why he is living outside?" Mean "Guru Mahārāja may ask him." So I was... From this Allahabad I was going to Bombay. I had one small office there. So after hearing, he said, "It is better that he is living little away from your Matha. And when time will rise, he'll do everything. He hasn't got to be advised." I could not understand why he said like that. That means he was so kind that he expected that I shall do something. That was my asset, his blessing. And I was thinking that "His, this mission must be done very nicely." Although I was not capable to do anything, I was thinking like that. So desire was there and maybe blessing was there. Yes. There was no question of qualification.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: And we are not taking any profit. Neither the seller, neither the author is taking any profit. So there is enough money. You haven't got to pay either to the seller or to the writer, then why not spend the whole income? No profit. So we save income tax. And whatever little excess is there, (indistinct), advertise or pay some gṛhasthas some pocket expenses. In this way make it meet. No profit. By our arrangement there is no question of profit but even there is profit, we should pay the gṛhasthas some expenditure. He has... Family man there is... In this way, make always no profit. I was doing from the very beginning (indistinct), then I began to sell books. I was working, I was selling, I was collecting, I was spending, going to the printer, everything. Forcing (indistinct) I was publishing. Work nicely. If I don't force (indistinct), they'll not give me the concession rate, still I am doing. So I think this book department (indistinct) all right, you don't require to invest. But whatever income you'll get from this record business, spend it for giving prasādam. So we have got so many centers, they will feed.

Rāmeśvara: But they... That way a whole new...

Prabhupāda: Therefore I started Māyāpur this prasāda distribution. And it is coming to be successful. People are, politicians are appreciating that here is Hindu-Muslim unity.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: That will not do. This is our first business.

Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda, in the Back to Godhead magazine, one question has come up. Now that England is printing their own, India is printing their own, so this magazine that we print in America, ninety percent, ninety-five percent is sold in America.

Prabhupāda: But that is English and in India vernacular so there is no question of competition.

Rāmeśvara: Right. So the question is that the magazines in America, the readers like very much to have a feeling of who the author is, who the different writers are, the editors. So we are using our spiritual names on the list of writers and editors and so on. So they have asked me to enquire whether in parentheses they can also have their legal names.

Prabhupāda: Why not?

Rāmeśvara: That way, because they cannot pronounce these names, Gopīparanadhana.

Prabhupāda: Fine, allow this.

Rāmeśvara: Then it seems like a foreign thing.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes, you can...

Rāmeśvara: So should we have both names?

Prabhupāda: Oh yes.

Rāmeśvara: Use both names.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: No, no... Death means all previous experience forgotten. That is death. Otherwise there is no death.

Hari-śauri: Yes. The key here is that all these people actually came back into their bodies. They actually didn't...

Rāmeśvara: They didn't fully die.

Hari-śauri: It was just before...

Prabhupāda: They... It cannot die. There is no question of death. Simply changing the body.

Hari-śauri: But they didn't actually get to the point of transferral to another body.

Rāmeśvara: No. What's being described in this journal is that a man leaves his gross body, and then he exists in a very subtle state.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is subtle body.

Rāmeśvara: And then he goes back to the same gross body.

Prabhupāda: Not exactly the same, but another. This body is useless. By accident he loses. Mutilated, it cannot be accepted.

Rāmeśvara: But somehow they revive him. Somehow he is revived.

Prabhupāda: Revived means the body was in order.

Rāmeśvara: Temporarily he left.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam: (ISO 1) "Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa." We are all children. The America is protecting for Americans "No! No American. Let the Chinese. They are so well congested. The Indians, come on!" You came here. It is not your father's property. Why do you check others, rascal? You stolen this property from the Red Indians, and now you have become proprietor.

Rāmeśvara: And they're paying the farmers not to grow food in America.

Prabhupāda: Just see. There is pūrṇam idam (Īśo Invocation). By God's arrangement everything is full. There is no question of overpopulation. Just see. So much land is lying vacant. There is no utilization.

Rāmeśvara: No, they should use their science for developing the resources for the benefit of all people.

Prabhupāda: There is no needs of science. This is the science: chant Hare Kṛṣṇa; there will be sufficient rain, and you till the ground and grow food.

Hari-śauri: Actually by their science...

Prabhupāda: This is the science.

Hari-śauri: Their science is incapable.

Prabhupāda: Yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14). If there is... What is your nonsense science? If there is no rain, drought, what you can do?

Hari-śauri: They can't develop their science to that point where they can...

Prabhupāda: No, these... These scientists are rascals. I call them rascals. That's...

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Special for this millennium. But the thing is going on like that, rotating.

Rāmeśvara: But in general, first it gets more and more degraded. Then it's all finished.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless there is degradation, there is no question of improvement. So this is going on. This is nature's way, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19), appearance and disappearance.

Rāmeśvara: Now, this Kṛṣṇa conscious government... Will many of the things that are going on in America, like schools and education, teaching people to read and write...

Prabhupāda: They'll have to reform.

Rāmeśvara: That will all continue, but it will be adjusted so that Kṛṣṇa consciousness...

Prabhupāda: Yes, Gurukula, Gurukula education.

Rāmeśvara: Still we'll be teaching subjects like history and math.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Without teaching, how the human society will exist? There must be.

Hari-śauri: No, he's talking about some of the subjects they teach now.

Rāmeśvara: Material science as well as spiritual science?

Prabhupāda: No. No, no. There is no need of so-called material science—how to kill children in the womb. These things will be kicked out. Nonsense.

Room Conversation with Film Producer about Krsna Lila -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the beginning. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekāṁ śaraṇaṁ (BG 18.66). Unless Jagāi-Mādhāi surrendered and stopped their sinful activities... That is wanted.

Guest (1): But there are some ways. Even I am influenced by your ideas. That is some other thing. Somebody's influenced by your appearance. Somebody's influenced by your dialects.

Prabhupāda: No, there is no question of amendment.

Guest (2): No amendment.

Prabhupāda: You can... Yes. You say that "Somebody does like, somebody does like, somebody..." No. Full surrender. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66).

Guest (2): No conditional. Conditional means that we have hidden here any enemy to fight over his property.

Prabhupāda: If I would have compromised, then many millions of students I would have got. Anyone comes to me—"First surrender."

Guest (2): But Guruji, kindly excuse me. There is Droṇa and Ekalavya.

Prabhupāda: That's nice, but...

Guest (2): But if I have got the concentration, I can find you in me.

Prabhupāda: That is special case.

Room Conversation with Film Producer about Krsna Lila -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Surrender means full faith, that "Whatever Kṛṣṇa said is all right. I'll not do anything, and I shall simply surrender to Kṛṣṇa." That is surrender, not that one may be attracted by this, one may be attracted by this, one may...

Guest (1): No, we read literature, and we are surrendered.

Prabhupāda: Simply I am attracted with the words of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. No compromise.

Guest (2): No compromise. No compromise. There is no question of compromise.

Prabhupāda: That is not surrender.

Guest (1): Guruji, we must get your blessing definitely. In future we are...

Prabhupāda: Then, if you make conditional blessing...

Guest (2): No, no. No condition. With full devotion, full surrender...

Prabhupāda: Best thing is... This is the formula given by every big personality. The Rūpa Gosvāmī, he is authorized person for bhakti-mārga. He says, ādau śraddhā tato sādhu-saṅga.

Guest (2): We are so lucky. We are writing the letter... We wrote here that "From distant land of Orissa, Guruji... This is... Your literature has tempted us, and perhaps it is your intention that we should go upon..., with Nitai Gaura..."

Prabhupāda: Just like our this Kṛṣṇa book, from the very beginning, or Bhagavad-gītā. You try...

Guest (2): So eleven or twelve days' time... We have posted the letter on seventh, and yesterday this gentleman from here rang me that "You were searching for the Guruji, and he is at..." "Nonsense." When I am busy giving some dictation to my steno. "He is humbug." So from there we came here.

Room Conversation with Film Producer about Krsna Lila -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: You just now told. And your Orissa man says, "What is God?" Just try to understand your position. You are advertising that you know Kṛṣṇa very well, and again you are asking, "What is God?"

Guest (2): No, devotees...

Guest (1): Kṛṣṇa, I mean to say that Kṛṣṇa devotees.

Prabhupāda: No, no, Kṛṣṇa devotee... You are saying that your Orissa is very much great advanced in understanding Kṛṣṇa, and your Orissa man is asking, "What is God?" This is contradictory. He does not know what is Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise there was no question to ask, "What is God?" Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). He should have known. But you have forgotten. Admit this.

Guest (1): Oh, definitely.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore you have to learn from the very beginning. In foreign countries, Indian students, they say, "Oh, Swamiji, what will be done by this Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa? We require technology." They say like that.

Guest (2): Indian students.

Prabhupāda: We have rejected. Otherwise why there was so much talk, yata mat tata pat? Why yata mat tata pat? The Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa is saying, mām ekam. And yata mat? What is this nonsense? Admit that you have forgotten Kṛṣṇa, or you do not know what is Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise why bring this all question—"What is God? Yata mat tata pat. Why Kṛṣṇa was killed?" Kṛṣṇa can be killed?

Guest (2): He asked?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Who asked?

Evening Darsana -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Udaraṁ bharatā. Dakṣyaṁ udaraṁ bhāratā. Bas, Kali-yuga. Somehow or other, if you can fill up your bellies, then you are very expert. That is going on. If you can maintain your family nicely, then you are dakṣya. Dakṣyaṁ udaraṁ bhāratā. These symptoms are there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Because the Kali-yuga, it is so condemned that it will be difficult to maintain one's body and soul together, that udaraṁ bharita is very expert. He's maintaining. (laughs) Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā (SB 1.1.10). All unfortunate, they have no certainty. In Western countries they have voluntarily given up regulative life, the hippies. No certainty where he shall eat, where he shall lie down. Voluntarily. Coming of very nice family. In Europe, America.... Especially in America there is no question of becoming poor. Everyone has got sufficient means. But still, voluntarily they have accepted this poverty. Voluntarily. A father is rich man. Grandfather is rich man. And besides that, the government maintains. If you have no engagement, the government will give you at least $25 per week. Is it not?

Satsvarūpa: More than that.

Prabhupāda: More than that. You were in the welfare department. What is the minimum?

Satsvarūpa: It keeps going up. I think it's more like forty, fifty dollars for one person.

Prabhupāda: Forty means at the rate of nine rupees.

Guest (2): Nine-fifty.

Prabhupāda: No, not fifty. Per week, yes.

Mr. Pandiya: In Western countries they give wages in terms of weeks.

Prabhupāda: Yes, weekly.

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Satsvarūpa: And that they're not allowed to mix freely. They say, "Well how do you know who you want to marry unless you can mix with that person?"

Prabhupāda: There is no question of "how do you want?" You require, and the parents is the best selector. It is not the question, "How do you like?" It is the guardians' duty to find out a suitable husband or a suitable wife. Nowadays the boys and girls, they do not take parents' guidance, and they are not happy.

Hari-śauri: The thing is the parents are not qualified to give any guidance any more either.

Prabhupāda: Qualified, that is not very difficult. For the girl, find out a boy who is hard worker or a little educated. Bas. That's all. That was the selection. Then fortune. You give a daughter under the care of the boy who can work hard. That's all. They then will earn their livelihood. Even there is no education, a hard worker will do. A boy, as soon as has got the sense that "I have got a wife to maintain," he'll work. That is impetus to give him to work for the family. And if a boy gets wife or woman without any hard working, they why he should marry? And if he has got responsibility that "I have to maintain my wife; then I can enjoy," then he becomes responsible. Wooden bridge?

Gurukṛpa: That is like Australia. That is Australia.

Prabhupāda: Australia?

Gurukṛpa: Yes, the whole country is...

Prabhupāda: Wooden bridge.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Satsvarūpa: "Although celestial beings are not visible to the naked eyes of the inhabitants of this earth, it was due to the influence of Mahārāja Parīkṣit that the demigods also agreed to be visible. The kings used to spend lavishly during such sacrifices as the cloud distributes rains. A cloud is nothing but another form of water, or, in other words, the waters of the earth transform into clouds. Similarly, the charity made by the kings in such sacrifices are but another form of the taxes collected from the citizens. But as the rains fall down very lavishly and appear to be more than necessary, the charity made by such kings also seems to be more than what the citizen needs. Satisfied citizens will never organize agitation against the king, and thus there was no need of changing the monarchial state. Even for a king like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira there was needed a spiritual master for guidance. Without such guidance one cannot make progress in spiritual life. The spiritual master must be bona fide, and one who wants to have self-realization must approach and take shelter of a bona fide spiritual master to achieve real success.

(text 4)
nijagrāhaujasā vīraḥ
kaliṁ digvijaye kvacit
nṛpa-liṅga-dharaṁ śūdraṁ
ghnantaṁ go-mithunaṁ padā

(translation) "Once when Mahārāja Parīkṣit was on his way to conquer the world, he saw the master of Kali-yuga, who was lower than a śūdra, disguised as a king and hurting the legs of a cow and bull. The King at once caught hold of him to deal sufficient punishment." (purport) "The purpose of a king's going out to conquer the world is not for self-aggrandizement. Mahārāja Parīkṣit went out to conquer the world after his ascendance on the throne, but this was not for the purpose of aggression on other states. He was the emperor of the world, and all small states were under his regime. His purpose in going out was to see how things were going on in terms of the godly state. The king, being the representative of the Lord, has to execute the will of the Lord duly. There is no question of self-aggrandizement. Thus as soon as Mahārāja Parīkṣit saw that a lower-class man in the dress of a king was hurting the legs of a cow and bull..." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...there the injunction of the śāstra, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. Go-rakṣya. Cow should be protected. Kṛṣṇa said, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. Kṛṣṇa did not say chāgala-rakṣya or hog-rakṣya. Go-rakṣya. So it is the duty of the king or the state or the government to give protection to the cows. This is śāstric injunction. But nowadays neither the state or government is giving protection to the cow. They are becoming implicated with so many problems. I heard that India again is now slaughtering cows. (break)

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Yes, why not?

Gargamuni: They are offering their food, they have...

Prabhupāda: There is no question. Community means to help one another. If you can help yourself, do it.

Satsvarūpa: But at least meet with us for training, for classes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is training. Community means I learn from you; you learn from the principles. But if you don't like community, you do it yourself. But this is opportunity. You learn it. Sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83). By association of... And we must be sādhus. If we are also dogs and hogs, what they will learn?

Gargamuni: Rāmeśvara told me that in ISKCON mail order there are many people outside who are following. They are offering their food, having kīrtanas.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, you can accept a suitable situation according to your convenience. There is brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. Four orders are there. Whichever is suitable for you, accept. But don't forget the problem and the aim of life. And we don't want men giving some quotation from a book just like these so-called scholars do. He has not gone through the book, but take some suitable passage and note, and then he advertises himself that he has studied so many book. "Bibliography." Is it not? So-called scholar?

Satsvarūpa: Footnotes, bibliography.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: That is my duty. You are trying to brain, my brainwash; I am trying yours. That is going on. That is the tussle. You are trying your best. It is a wrestling. You are trying your strength; I am trying my strength. That is... Otherwise where there is fight? There is no question of fight. You don't agree with me; I don't agree with you. You have got right to not agree with me; I have got right not to agree with you. Now let us settle.

Hari-śauri: Well, the thing Rāmeśvara Mahārāja was saying was that they're bringing all these psychiatrists and psychologists in to make so many statements.

Prabhupāda: Let them bring. We have got our own psychiatrists.

Hari-śauri: He was saying in order to defeat them, we have to bring in other psychiatrists and psychologists.

Prabhupāda: The psychiatrists mean... Do you mean to say whatever they will say, we have to accept?

Satsvarūpa: Well, they're considered authorities.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Satsvarūpa: The foolish public considers them authorities of behavior and the mind.

Prabhupāda: Then everyone, a psychiatrist's recommendation. Even a sane man can be proved that he's a madman by the recommendation of psychiatrist.

Morning Walk -- January 28, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: This is also arrangement by Kṛṣṇa. Vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām. "I will arrange soldiers. Russia will arrange for military power, America will arrange for military power, and they'll be engaged in fighting so that the overburdened earth will be released from these, all these demons. And it will pave the way for Kṛṣṇa consciousness." And so long they're alive, they'll protest against Kṛṣṇa consciousness: "This is brainwash." So Kṛṣṇa will arrange war between them. Then they'll be finished, and it will be easy for us to make progress. So paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8).

Satsvarūpa: Why will that be favorable for us? You said that will be...

Prabhupāda: Paritrāṇāya sādhūnām, that we are meeting so many obstacles for these rascal demons, and when they will be killed, then our path will be easier. And they will also understand that "This demonic way of life is not good. Let us take to Kṛṣṇa." (break) ...that unnecessarily they fight occasionally between themselves. There is no question of fight. There is a Malthus's theory in economics that when the population is increased, there is... (end)

Room Conversation -- January 28, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Pṛthu-putra: Yes. But this thing was just confirming. When I saw you the first time in Amsterdam, you were the same person that I saw in my dream one or two years previously.

Prabhupāda: That... You have read Caitanya-caritāmṛta? Guru-tattva. Guru-tattva. So there it is clearly said that guru is the manifestation of God. So it is confirmed in the śāstra. And all the ācāryas accept it. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **.

Satsvarūpa: But is it possible to also learn spiritual truths from this..., from representatives on the subtle plane?

Prabhupāda: There is no question of subtle plane. You are on the gross plane. You first of all study gross things, and subtle, we shall see later on.

Pṛthu-putra: Of course, that was never a doubt. That's just the way I came to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And when I saw you...

Prabhupāda: So the guru is the representative of God. That's all right. Then what is your misunderstanding?

Pṛthu-putra: So then after I had some other things. For example, when I went to Egypt, in these pyramids one day I had some kind of contact on the subtle plane with persons who were supposed to live inside of the pyramids, and they gave me some kind of instructions.

Prabhupāda: Inside of the pyramid?

Pṛthu-putra: Yes. That was (wasn't) in the dream. But people, they were quite clear.

Prabhupāda: These are just like we know gold and we know mountain...

Pṛthu-putra: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 28, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: These are just like we know gold and we know mountain...

Pṛthu-putra: Yes.

Prabhupāda: ...and sometimes we mix together and we see golden mountain. So in dream we see like that. We have got hundreds and thousands of experiences in our this life and past life. They are all stocked there, and they can sometimes get like a bubbles. You have seen the bubbles come out? It is like that. We should not give much importance to these things. But it is a fact that bona fide spiritual master is bona fide representative of Kṛṣṇa. That's a fact. So there is no question of subtle or gross. It is a fact. That's all right.

Satsvarūpa: But we've been discussing, and Pṛthu-putra Mahārāja is saying that some devotees are very sensitive about thinking that they're having these experiences. And if we tell them, "Ignore this. It's not important," that will not be good for them, because they are definitely feeling visits from persons from another plane, and if you simply tell them, "No..."

Prabhupāda: No, that's all right. You say that "You are fortunate that you're having, but do your business." That's all.

Pṛthu-putra: They want to feel satisfaction from Kṛṣṇa consciousness point of view.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Sometimes it may be fact. There is no wonder. But we have to proceed with the figure. If I dream that I am getting one lakh of rupees, so it is better if I get five rupees in figure. Is that all right?

Pṛthu-putra: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Simply dreaming I am getting one lakh of rupees, that is good, or actually, if you get five rupees, that is good? Which is good?

Room Conversation -- January 28, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: We have got everything clearly stated, that we observe these regulative principle, chant, minimum sixteen rounds, and act as far as possible for the service of the Lord. Where is the difficulty?

Pṛthu-putra: Maybe the realization may not be there.

Prabhupāda: What is that realization? This is the prescribed duty. So there is no question of realization. You must do it.

Pṛthu-putra: Yes. They must and they do also. They also do it.

Prabhupāda: Then where is the doubt? Let me go on with my duty. That's all. Why I shall be disturbed by so many things? Let me see whether I am discharging my duties properly. That's all.

Pṛthu-putra: That is what should be told to them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He may be very fortunate that he's dreaming. "All right, keep aside. Do your duty. You are very fortunate, but don't bother now. First of all be strong and follow." Otherwise ei chure pākā. Ei chure pākā. Ei chure (?) you know? Stunted jackfruit. Jackfruit becomes so big, but one fruit, it is so small and... Taya eka channi sa. (?) And it has become ripened. So it has no taste, neither it can be used for cooking-useless. Ei chure pākā. A small fruit ripen, it is useless either for this person or for that. So they are called in Bengali, ei chure pākā. Do your duty. Guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā..., āra nā koriho **. That is bhajana. And as soon as he deviates-yasyāprasādān na gatiḥ kuto 'pi. He is finished. That has happened to Nitāi. Ei chure pākā. So what these people will do? It is the effect of bad association. That's all.

Pṛthu-putra: But in that particular thing there is no...

Morning Walk -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: One person said, "This kind of thing reminds me of Hitler's Germany. If there's too much authority or blind following, it's not healthy."

Prabhupāda: No, too much authority if the authority is wrong... But if the authority is right, then it is very better to submit in one place and get everything. Just like we go to some supermarket. We get everything there, we go there.

Hari-śauri: And there's no question of blind following either.

Prabhupāda: No.

Hari-śauri: Otherwise why would we distribute so many books?

Satsvarūpa: I went to one professor who refused to help us, and he said the reason is... Although we may be being persecuted now and we're a small movement, by reading our books and talking to the devotees, he thinks that if we ever did become powerful we would also become intolerant and we would not allow people to have any other religion. So he said, "Although you're small, I'm afraid to help you."

Prabhupāda: That means he does not understand us.

Satsvarūpa: Is it a fact that if Kṛṣṇa consciousness was the main power, would people be allowed to...?

Prabhupāda: Which way? Which way? This way?

Satsvarūpa: In the Vedic culture, are people allowed to follow any other belief? In a society where there is Kṛṣṇa conscious king or president, say someone doesn't want to be a devotee. What happens to him?

Morning Walk -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. No, jungle, we have no business to go there. We have rejected jungle. Let them live there. But in the human society, if the animal disturbs, it must be punished—with stick.

Satsvarūpa: What about say a Buddhist who practices ahiṁsā...?

Prabhupāda: Now, Buddhist... I say there is no question of "Buddhist," "Christian." One must know what is God.

Satsvarūpa: But he would say, "I follow our leader, and we don't believe in the Personality of Godhead."

Prabhupāda: But if you follow... Then leader is a wrong person. You cannot follow. You must follow the right leader.

Hari-śauri: One cannot say that he does not believe in the power of the state.

Prabhupāda: Then that is not leadership. That is misleader. These are very intelligent questions, nice. King means he has to see that the citizens are doing nicely, and that is king's duty.

Bhāgavata: The king is like a father.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated. Lord Rāmacandra treated His subjects as sons and they also treated Lord Rāmacandra as father. That is the relationship between the citizens and the king-father and son.

Bhāgavata: The chastisement that the king gives...

Prabhupāda: That is out of love.

Bhāgavata: Out of love.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: And this jñānavān is possible after many, many births; not so easily, to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. But if he's there, such a person—vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19)—he is mahātmā. That is mahātmā, not by stamping, anyone, a person, can become mahātmā. This is the symptom of mahātmā, one who has surrendered to Kṛṣṇa fully. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. So that is guru, mahātmā, who knows vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). Such mahātmā is guru. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, bhajanty ananya-manasaḥ (BG 9.13). The guru has no other business than kṛṣṇa-bhajana. So that you have to see. You have to learn. You have to appreciate with persons who are actually engaged in kṛṣṇa-bhajana. Then you'll understand. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgaḥ (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15). Sādhu means bhajate mām ananya-bhāk sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). He's sādhu. Who? Who has no other business than Kṛṣṇa. Mix with such sādhu who are actually executing kṛṣṇa-bhajana. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgaḥ. This is the description of the sādhu. Bhajate mām ananya-bhāk sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). These things are there. There is no question of being misled. But if you purposefully mislead yourself, who can check? In the beginning you may commit some mistake, but when you study Bhagavad-gītā—who is sādhu, who is mahātmā, who is guru—then why shall we make, commit mistake again? If you have done mistake—you have gone to a rascal who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious—then when you read Bhagavad-gītā, you can understand. Why you are misled? Why you should be misled? If it is written on the road, "Keep to the left," why should you be misled and go to the right? Go to the left. Then you are not misled. So here it is said, mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ (BG 9.13). A mahātmā means who is always engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Why do you accept somebody as mahātmā who does not speak about Kṛṣṇa? Then you are misleading yourself. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). Everything, direction, is there.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Guest (2): Daily how many times you'll utter the names of Lord Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Twenty-four hours. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). There is no question of "How many times?" But if you have got other business, make some minimum quantity.

Guest (2): Minimum?

Prabhupāda: Quantity. Minimum number.

Satsvarūpa: If you can't chant all day—you have other business—at least make a quota and chant that every day. In our... Prabhupāda's disciples, we promise to chant at least sixteen rounds on the beads, japa-mālā, every day. One round is 108 mantras.

Guest (2): Sixteen rounds.

Satsvarūpa: Yes. Sixteen of those rounds at least.

Prabhupāda: It comes to twenty-five thousand. So Haridāsa Ṭhākura was chanting three lakhs. That is not possible. Twenty-five thousand minimum. Now you can increase as much as you like.

Guest (3): Is there a difference between Rāma and Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: No difference. Rāma is Bhagavān. Kṛṣṇa is Bhagavān. Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu. Bhagavān has got many incarnations: Nṛsiṁha-deva, Varāhadeva, Rāma, Rāma, Paraśurāma, Balarāma, Dāśarathi Rāma. So whomever you like, you can worship. (pause)

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Child cannot see. He's a rascal. He should be beaten with shoes. Then he will see. The child cannot see. Putraṁ ca śiṣyaṁ ca tāḍayen na tu lālayet: "Sons and disciples should be always chastised." That is Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. "Never pat them. Lālane bahavo doṣās tāḍane bahavo guṇāḥ... "If you pat, then he'll be spoiled. And if you chastise him, he'll come out a very nice person. Therefore, either disciple or son, they should be always chastised." This is the injunction of Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. There is no question of patting them.

Gurukṛpā: People want to be flattered. They don't want to be told very strongly.

Prabhupāda: And that is the position of disciples. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, guru more mūrkha dekhi' (CC Adi 7.71). Caitanya Mahāprabhu was God Himself, and He said that "My Guru Mahārāja saw me a fool rascal number one." Chastisement. That is required. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita, a great moral instructor. He has advised, tāḍayen na tu lālayet: "Always chastise them. Otherwise they'll be spoiled."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The intelligent boy knows that, that chastisement is mercy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Devotee (2): The scientists are saying that instead of everything coming from the micro organism, instead of that happening now, that it's coming from man. Life is created from man.

Prabhupāda: Then life is life. Life coming from life.

Morning Walk -- February 2, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes. But you are so rascal that you do not know who should be maintained at your cost. Those who are learned scholars, those who can give you good direction, they should be allowed to live very comfortably, without any want. That is Vedic civilization. Brāhmaṇas... Dātavyam iti yad dānam. Give them charity. All the big, big kings, they used to give charity. Give them cows, give them ornament, give them money, give them gold. Brāhmaṇa-bhojana. Invite the brāhmaṇas, give them sumptuous food. They never said, daridra-bhojana, daridra-nārāyaṇa-bhojana. They never said. And there was no daridra, because the brāhmaṇa was there. There was no question of daridra. Why do you pay the lawyers? Why do you say that "These people are living at our cost"? They're charging big, big fees. Why do you pay?

Gurukṛpā: Thousands of dollars.

Prabhupāda: Why do you pay? One man is earning ten rupees a day, but when there is some case he is paying fifty rupees a day or fifty rupees per standing a lawyer. Why does he pay? No, you say to them that "We are brāhmaṇas. The more you pay us, you'll be benefited." What do they say? That "You are living at the cost of others"?

Gurukṛpā: Yes. We are taking from the society.

Satsvarūpa: They don't recognize our activity as work, honest work.

Gurukṛpā: Think we're cheating. Many people interrupt our book sales, saying "These people are simply taking money."

Prabhupāda: Where do they say? In your country?

Gurukṛpā: Yes. They come, and they stop the sale: "Don't give him anything. He's cheating."

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Room Conversation -- February 3, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: More yes. Oh, yes.

Hari-śauri: Because we actually understand the value of the guru.

Prabhupāda: We are the greatest Christian. We follow his instruction; we accept him as guru.

Hari-śauri: Yeah. Without following the guru's instructions, there's no question of appreciating who he is or his work.

Prabhupāda: And this word, Jesus, the Christ, it is not?

Hari-śauri: Well, originally they say it was "Jesus of the Christ."

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) Christ means...

Hari-śauri: God.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: So they... Originally it was "Jesus of the Christ," meaning he was son of God.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That Christ is Kṛṣṇa.

Hari-śauri: Yeah. Same word.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Krisht, Krisht. Christ means Krisht, Krisht. Krishta is vulgar expression of Kṛṣṇa. No, from his teaching, we can understand he is representative of God.

Room Conversation -- February 12, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Where you have?

Jayapatākā: Where... Just the place would have to be... Their place is a bit irregular. Seeing the ultimate plan, we have to find out one place. It would be in this area somewhere. Now they're keeping records of how much is spent on agriculture, and how much is received. So what is the profit or loss, that can be ascertained. And actually that's not such a threat because I know that many of the things he is doing by contract. If at some time we need outside laborer for, say, harvest time, we need to harvest—so we pay them ten rupees or twenty rupees to harvest one bighā. So there is no question of labor. That is the contract.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayapatākā: In so many ways we can...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayapatākā: ...go around that.

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Jayapatākā: Envious people just trying to upset. The Western devotees that come, they are amazed that all of the devotees that are here, all the families are living separate from their wives. No temple has achieved that yet.

Prabhupāda: Everything can be done by practice.

Jayapatākā: The hari-nāma is purifying them because they are chanting so many hours. Now, when we give class, they also ask questions.

Room Conversation Varnasrama System Must Be Introduced -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Kaniṣṭha-adhikārī means he must be a brāhmaṇa. That is kaniṣṭha-adhikārī. The spiritual life, kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, means he must be a qualified brāhmaṇa. That is kaniṣṭha. What is esteemed as very high position in the material world, brāhmaṇa, that is kaniṣṭha-adhikārī.

arcāyām eva haraye
pūjāṁ yaḥ śraddhayehate
na tad-bhakteṣu cānyeṣu
sa bhaktaḥ prākṛtaḥ smṛtaḥ

The brāhmaṇa means from the material stage gradually he is elevated to the spiritual stage. And below the brāhmaṇa there is no question of Vaiṣṇava.

Hari-śauri: No question of?

Prabhupāda: Vaiṣṇavism.

śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ
puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ
hṛdy antaḥ-stho hy abhadrāṇi
vidhunoti suhṛt satām
(SB 1.2.17)

By becoming a brāhmaṇa, hearing, hearing, hearing... Or by hearing, hearing, hearing, he becomes a brāhmaṇa. The other qualities, śūdra quality, kṣatriya, vaiśya, means finished. So then next stage is, śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ, hṛdy antaḥ... Naṣṭa-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu. By this process, hearing... Without becoming a brāhmaṇa nobody is interested to hear. Then, by hearing, naṣṭa-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu, then abhadra, means the base qualities, means ignorance and passion... These are the base qualities. So naṣṭa-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu. When these base qualities are finished almost, not complete, nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā, by hearing from Bhāgavata or by serving the spiritual master and Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement-

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Farm project is very nice. Kṛṣṇa gives. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). This is economic problem solved. And brāhmaṇa, brain problem solved, and kṣatriya, protection problem solved, and śūdra, labor problem solved. Four things combined together, live peacefully, happily. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Introduce this farm project. In America there is enough scope. So much land is lying vacant. And if there are jungles, cut the jungles; use the wood. Just like our Virginia. Big, big jungles. You cut the woods, you get ground, open field, and utilize the logs for house-making. Food, shelter, everything there. In Africa, everywhere, the nature's way. Pūrṇam idam (Īśopaniṣad, Invocation). Everything, complete arrangement by Kṛṣṇa. We have to little work. Śarīra-yātrāpi ca te na prasiddhyed akarmaṇaḥ. If you sit idly, then you'll starve. Otherwise everything is there. You work little and get your all necessities. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. That one person, God, He's supplying everyone whatever necessities. You have to simply work little. That is material world. In the material world you have to work. And in the spiritual world there is no question, work. Whatever you require, you desire, everything is there. Cintāmaṇi-prakara-sadmasu kalpa-vṛkṣa (Bs. 5.29). You get everything as soon as you desire it. You haven't got to work. That is spiritual world. In material world, to get your necessities you have to work. You get this flower, little working. You grow the seeds, put little water, and it will be... And in spiritual world, as soon as you desire, "I want this flower," it is ready. There also māyā is working. Māyā means energy, Kṛṣṇa's energy. Here also energy is working. Bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10). Kṛṣṇa is preparing the seed. You have to work little. You cannot prepare the seed. That is in Kṛṣṇa's hand. You cannot prepare the seed in your so-called rascals' laboratory. That is not. Is it possible.? Hm? Why now they are so much proud with their scientific knowledge? Our Svarūpa Dāmodara is convinced this so-called scientific knowledge is bogus.

Morning Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So my royalty would have been one lakh, fifty thousand daily. Big authors, they take twenty-five percent. So that is not the ambition, but my ambition is these books shall be sold. That's all. Whole... Every house should have our books, every gentleman, in any language. It doesn't matter. That is our propaganda. Now you are getting all languages, so we can capture the whole world.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Increase the book sales more and more.

Prabhupāda: And we are getting success, at that. There is no question of discouragement.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Especially here in India it's becoming more and more encouraging.

Prabhupāda: Now these books I have read, either Bengali or Hindi, they are well-written, very convincing. All our books are convincing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is a very handsome type of binding. It's called... I'm not sure who has done... I think the libraries do. It's called "permabound." It's your pocketbook edition but bound into a hard cover. Very handy book.

Prabhupāda: Recent publication?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I don't... I'm not... I don't think that actually the BBT did this binding. This is done by someone else, but somehow I managed... It was in my office, so I brought it with me. But it's very nice to get the small pocket-size book but with a hard cover. For traveling it's very handy. On the back it gives mention inside of..., what the binding is.

Prabhupāda: Where it is done?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In USA. "Permabound" it's called.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Pradyumna: Yes.

Ādi-keśava: That's right.

Prabhupāda: "It is not brain-washing, but you have no brain. There is no question of washing. We have to give you brain."

Pradyumna: The brain...

Prabhupāda: Brain means proper intelligence. That is brain. Dhīra, sober, that is brain. Anyone who has got brain, he will understand the simple logic, that how the body is changing. There is something; therefore body's changing from childhood to boyhood. And as soon as that important thing is missing—no more change of body. It is a dead matter. So where is your brain to understand this simple truth? Hm?

Pradyumna: Because it's dulled from sense gratification, they can't under...

Prabhupāda: "So whatever the cause, but you have no brain. Cause may be so many things. But you have no brain to understand the simple truth. Where is your brain? So this movement is not brainwashing. Brain-giving. You have no brain." Therefore śāstra says, sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). Animal has no brain. They say animal has no soul, but that's not the fact. Animal has no brain. Otherwise, all anatomical, physical, physiological conditions are there. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna. But they have no brain. They cannot understand what is the difference between dead man and living man. That is the distinction between man and animal. But if you cannot understand, then where is your brain? On this point. Actually he has no brain. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). That was the point Arjuna was chastised, that "You rascal, you have no brain. You are lamenting on this body and talking like very learned man." Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca... (BG 2.11). The whole world is going on like that. They're talking like very big scientist, big philosopher, very big, big, big, but real thing they do not know.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So you explain. Then Kṛṣṇa can do.

Ādi-keśava: They're always accusing us that we are the cheaters. But every time, when we answer them, they are exposed as the cheaters. They are shown to be the ones that really don't know, yet they're all saying that they know.

Prabhupāda: It is a good chance for explaining our mission. You should very carefully do it. Finish. Lay it... (break) (someone enter and offers obeisances) I was talking with Ādi-keśava that "There is no question of brainwash, but you have no brain." You have to prove. "How I have no brain?" "Because you do not know what is the difference between a dead man and living man. For centuries in the history, you people, you had no brain that whether the body is important or the active principle which is working within the body, that is important. You have no brain." Challenge them. Which one is important? The body's important or the active principle which is moving the body, that is important? What is important? Hm?

Tripurāri: Active principle, the soul.

Prabhupāda: So what information you have got about the active principle?

Tripurāri: They have no information.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No information.

Prabhupāda: Then there is no brain. Where is the question of brainwash? You have no brain at all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They'll say that they have so much science and culture.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Abortion, child-killing. They are civilized?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're becoming very quickly rākṣasas.

Prabhupāda: And eating fetus. So you are rākṣasas, less then rākṣasas. And they're criticizing us.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's really a question of the demons and the devotees, Prabhupāda, this whole issue. It's polarizing both sides. It's nothing else but that. We are not doing anything wrong. Our devotees should not compromise.

Prabhupāda: No, there is no question of.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're up against demons. We should not think that these people will become satisfied. They're demons.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're not going to be satisfied.

Prabhupāda: Then description is there in the Sixteenth Chapter, exactly of the Western civilization. Read it.

Room Conversation about BTG the Moon -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are very clever. But even now they're coming under great criticism. They're starting to become criticized also. But they are much... He has so much watered down the whole thing that it doesn't disturb hardly anybody. It's no... It's like ten minutes a day. "Keep your job. Keep your position. Do everything you're doing. Just ten minutes a day go to sleep. Say some mantra and sleep." So no one is very much upset by it. It doesn't demand anything, doesn't demand very much at all, like taking a pill.

Prabhupāda: He's very clever.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. A good businessman. They outright... This they outrightly say. "This is not religion. No question of religion, nothing about God." They advertise like that. "It is not religion."

Prabhupāda: That is true.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The Army has taken it up now.

Prabhupāda: He has not any new writings?(?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He had one, but I heard that they had some difficulty in preparing it. (indistinct) (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the leaders agree, organize it. Then others take it. We can begin there this varṇāśrama program.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Are you planning to go there, to Manipur?

Prabhupāda: I shall expect to go. It requires...

Hari-śauri: Svarūpa Dāmodara.

Prabhupāda: No, on our part.

Evening Darsana -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: They're alive. Sarva-ga. Therefore we say that "Why not in the fire?" If there is life in water, why not in the fire? You cannot see. You have no eyes. There is life, and Kṛṣṇa says, nainaṁ dahati pāvakaḥ. Fire does not burn the living being, so why they will be not in fire? And Kṛṣṇa said, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham. He entered the sun planet.

Acyutānanda: So nothing material can divide the soul, but spiritual, when it enters the spiritual world, then it is dividing.

Prabhupāda: No, there is no question of dividing

Acyutānanda: Māyāvādī.

Prabhupāda: Sanātana. That is Māyāvāda. Kṛṣṇa says, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ jīva-loke sanātanaḥ (BG 15.7). Sanātana means eternally they are divided. And Kṛṣṇa says further in the Second Chapter that...

Hari-śauri: Na tv evāhaṁ jātu nāsam.

Room Conversation with Adi-kesava Swami -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Because unless you give up this business of vagina-licking, you'll have to be entangled in this body. Either as a dog or as a hog, as a human being or as a demigod, as a tree, as an insect, it will go on. In this way plead. Let the people understand what we are preaching. Advance this philosophy, widely discussed. Then our success.

Hari-śauri: There's no question this will be widely discussed.

Prabhupāda: And... (someone enters) (Bengali) (break) Smelling the aroma, such a nonsense.

Hari-śauri: As you say, just like dogs.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Hari-śauri: Just like the dogs.

Prabhupāda: Dogs and all animals, smelling vagina. They think, "Here is real pleasure."

Hari-śauri: There's no need to move around, Śrīla Prabhupāda... (break)

Prabhupāda: They're going for vagina and paying heavy toll: fifty dollars for entering the club, then two hundred dollars for drinking. You know this?

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Prabhupāda: This is their civilization, vagina civilization. In Florida they go, Miami, to spend money weekly, five hundred, five thousand dollars for naked dance. You know that?

Hari-śauri: Yes. So many places. Las Vegas. Every big city has...

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Then that will be very nice. I want to have a small Vaiṣṇava state-varṇāśrama ideal.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This is possible in Manipur.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore I thought it. Ideal Vaiṣṇava state. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, they are doing very nicely, and people will be surprised, "Oh." There is no question of hatred. It is division for proper discharge of duty.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But I saw in the airport, the policemen, they have this tilaka.

Prabhupāda: Tilaka.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Policemen, they are dressed, but they have tilaka.

Prabhupāda: Manipur? Manipur?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Manipur. And always give respect. Though I am nobody, but...

Prabhupāda: Tilaka.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow. The policemen wear tilaka. There is justice for sure.

Prabhupāda: So immediately do it. I shall go. If there is such possibility... Let us have a small ideal state. If respectable gentlemen take it, oh, it will be a great success, an ideal state throughout the whole world, Vaiṣṇava state.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Example. You can show that example.

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: I don't want to stay anywhere. I want work.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So there's work everywhere. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Staying, I have stayed big, big palaces, big, big cities. That is now complete. I have no other desire.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How long do you want to work in Bombay? I mean, till...

Prabhupāda: So long there is work. There is no end of it. Our Bombay should be organized. Work is our life. There is no question of "How long?" As long as possible. Kṛṣṇa giving us good opportunities. Now we should take it seriously. It is not joke. "Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is bona fide religion."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, that will be...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very important.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, especially in the United States.

Prabhupāda: New York high-court decision.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very important. This man is senior man too in the courts, very old, conservative.

Prabhupāda: But I think he's sincere.

Evening Darsana -- February 26, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So ordinary man is foolish. Learned man is intelligent

Guest (2): But it is very difficult to think of a naked soul.

Prabhupāda: Naked, there is no question of... Naked soul is there, but you have no eyes to see it. Naked soul is there, but it is so small you cannot see it. The dimension of the naked soul is given in the śāstra. Keśāgra-śata-bhāgasya śatadhā kalpitasya ca (CC Madhya 19.140). One ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. So it is not possible to see by your these present eyes. But there is. There is no doubt about it.

Indian man: How is it opened, the eyes?

Prabhupāda: By knowledge, therefore... So therefore Kṛṣṇa giving you the knowledge. That you have to hear. Knowledge which you cannot experience by your senses at the present moment, you have to hear from the authority. Avan manasa-gocara. Which is beyond your mind and intelligence, you have to hear from the authority. Just like father. If one wants to know who is father, he cannot see it. He must know it from the authority-mother. Similarly, therefore called Vedic knowledge. Vedic knowledge means whatever is beyond the capacity of your senses, that you have to hear from the right source. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). And that is the teaching in the Bhagavad-gītā. When the things became so complicated, Arjuna submitted to Kṛṣṇa: śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). And then He taught him Bhagavad-gītā. And the first teaching of Bhagavad-gītā is this, that you are not this body.

Room Conversation 'GBC Resolutions' -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So I... What do you think, all GBC? He should be restricted in that way?

Rāmeśvara: There's no harm in being cautious.

Prabhupāda: Cautious we must be in every action. That is another thing, but for canvassing business, why one should be restricted?

Harikeśa: There's no question of restriction.

Haṁsadūta: No, it's just a matter of being cautious. That was his whole point.

Hṛdayānanda: It could be stated in such a way that Harikeśa will simply help. It's not a question of restricting the BBT salesman, but just to help him.

Prabhupāda: That is all right.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: We have sent them also books.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Ekala eka.(?) One man's conclusion is not good. Better consult with him. Then?

Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: World Health Organization. Rascal, who is healthy? Everyone is going to die. "World Health Organization." They are manufacturing. They do not think that "Where is health?" Such foolish things are going on all over the world. So organize something reality and spread, slow but sure.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We shouldn't be impatient to compromise just to...

Prabhupāda: There is no question of becoming impatient. You have got diamond. No buyer of diamond—that does not mean you have to throw it away.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And sell something less.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Diamond is diamond. It must be purchased by the suitable customer. Because there is no customer I shall throw it away? So we have got diamond. It is not possible that everyone will purchase it, but there must be diamonds. People must know that "Here is diamond. If I want it, I must pay the proper price." That I want to establish. Why India's culture should be lost in this way, in the wilderness?I am not cheap patriot like Gandhi and... I want to give Indian culture to the whole world. I'm not going to cheat people, taking Bhagavad-gītā and speaking all nonsense. I want to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is. That is my mission. Why shall I cheat you, a gentleman? (Hindi)

Guest (1): We'll try to follow your message properly.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now you have got science background, book background, knowledge background—everything is there strong. Make this movement... Art also. Art, literature, science, philosophy, religion, culture, character—everything, strong background. Let everyone come. You have to try to fashion this. Nārāyaṇa-parāḥ sarve na kutaścana bibhyati. If you have got Nārāyaṇa background, then what is the cause of being afraid?

nārāyaṇa-parāḥ sarve
na kutaścana bibhyati
svargāpavarga-narakeṣv
api tulyārtha-darśinaḥ
(SB 6.17.28)

Prahlāda Mahārāja, so much obstacles by his father at home. Still, he is speaking to his father:

tat sādhu manye 'sura-varya dehināṁ
sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt
hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ
vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta
(SB 7.5.5)

The father was astonished that "After so much chastising, still the boy is speaking the same way. He has not changed?" Hitvātma-pātaṁ gṛham andha-kūpaṁ vanaṁ gato yad dharim āśrayeta. "Incorrigible. Kill him." "All right, kill me. I don't care." They have got so exalted character like Prahlāda Mahārāja, Dhruva Mahārāja, all great personalities. Apart from big, big devatās... Svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ (SB 6.3.20). We have got small boys also as good as Brahmā, more than Brahmā. Svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ prahlādaḥ kapilo manu, prahlāda. Immediately comes Prahlāda also. Amongst svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ.... janako bhīṣmo balir vaiyāsakiḥ. Read Bhāgavatam, amalaṁ purāṇam. Read yourself, let them read. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. There is no question of cheating or getting some some material profit out of this movement. We have no such thing. Material profit will automatically... My Guru Mahārāja used to say, "You are thinking of material things so. We should come and fall down at your feet, 'Why you are worrying? You go and speak the real truth.' " (Bengali:) " 'Go and speak the truth.' " No compromise. So I never had scarcity of money. He is from the very beginning.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And anthills. Yes, it's a very unique presentation of the philosophy. They have never heard it so nicely adapted to the modern situation.

Prabhupāda: So they have got farther two days, so I think they will be able to do it. That, my, apartment in Juhu.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, there is no question. Actually, they were ready tomorrow.

Prabhupāda: Still to...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Finished completely. We'll be going there tomorrow morning to see how much they've done today.

Prabhupāda: Some first-class ḍāb should always be in stock in the refrigerator.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Keeping cold. Yeah, the Marwaris, they always drink cold. They always keep in the refrigerator. I'll tell them to do that.

Prabhupāda: This miśri water and ḍāb water.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very good.

Prabhupāda: Always ready. That will clear my urine. That I have experimented. And I don't require that exacting tablet. That tablet by chemical reaction exacts. And when there is no urine, it exacts blood.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what's wrong with these modern medicines. They work mechanically. They don't take consideration of the particular conditions.

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think that Bombay is very important, so Morarji Desai must visit here. And when he visits here, he is a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, so we can invite him to our temple. And at that time he can see you.

Prabhupāda: With his associates, invite him, give him prasādam.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That will be more impressive then. You should not have to go. The administrator comes to the guru. And if he won't come to you, then there is no question of his helping, anyway.

Girirāja: Right.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If he comes we shall speak on this.

Girirāja: Now, for tonight's program, I was thinking that actually there is no need for you to come to the pandal, because it's very strenuous and Dr. Jawar knows us very well. He won't take offense. And he could, if you wanted, he could come for your darśana anyway, which would be less taxing.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Bhavānanda: This Dr. Oja says that your blood pressure is about 210 to 220 over 100. He said it should be about 150 over 90. He said any strain moving around will cause this.(?)

Prabhupāda: But if required, I can go. If it is required, I can go.

Girirāja: Well, I don't think it is actually required, because we have a very nice program.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about tomorrow?

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Therefore they say something, we say something, he says something. That you manufacture something. But nobody know what is reality. That is the difficulty. Unless you know the reality, to suggest something, "I suggest it," that does not mean it is solution. That is going on, all over the world. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). Bahir-artha. The external features, these material features, they are concerned with that. Earth, water, air, fire, mind, intelligence. But they do not know that beyond this, there is another element. Unless you come to that knowledge, there is no question of welfare activities. That knowledge is available in India. India should understand. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41). Not only India, but he must be a human being. Not only human being, but also systematic human society. (break) Of course, we are trying to give this knowledge. These American, Europeans, they are taking it. It should be done very systematically, not alone tried.

Mr. Rajda: No, but in spite of that your efforts are have even got effect on the Western world also.

Prabhupāda: (interference) ...because it is genuine.

Mr. Rajda: Genuine, correct.

Room Conversation First Day in Juhu Quarters -- March 30, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So make arrangement so that they are not displeased.

Saurabha: Yes, I am very careful, and at the moment it is going very nicely.

Prabhupāda: So keep that standard. Money scarcity we shall not allow. We shall put.

Saurabha: I pay exact what they are working for.

Prabhupāda: Money's, Kṛṣṇa's supplying; so there is no question of scarcity. Finish it as soon as possible. There is no question of money supply. Yes. So Lokanātha Swami, your bullock cart program, how it is going on?

Lokanātha: I have got just one letter from them when I was in Vṛndāvana. They were doing good, but there was not enough men with them. I left five boys when I left Māyāpur for Vṛndāvana. One of the boys, when he came to know that I am not traveling, he decided not to go. And one other boy was approached and was asked to stay in Māyāpur. So there are only three boys on the bullock cart.

Prabhupāda: Nobody is joining?

Lokanātha: Yeah, the boys who are on the party, they are confident that in Bengal they should get some more boys to join. That's what they wrote to me. So I did not get any more reports. They are pretty good boys, they should be doing...

Prabhupāda: It is difficult to make one devotee. That is... Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). So if two, three men are there, that is sufficient for preaching also. You have to sit down any place and chant, and people will join. Local men. Not permanently, but at least to continue chanting.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: What is the use of giving me quotations from...? We are talking about practical things.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. The only point I was going to bring out was that it is clear how they misread the Bible. Just like one of them says, "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son, that whoever believeth in him should not perish but have everlasting life." But you pointed out that to believe means to follow his teachings. That they don't understand. They say, "We believe in Jesus," but they don't follow his teachings.

Prabhupāda: Then where is his belief? Where is the question of belief? Unless strictly follow the teachings, there is no question of belief. It is bogus principle.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, it's all... His next question is, "The essence of Christianism is to believe that Christ is our saviour and redeemer, but the final test of one's faith in Christ rests upon one's hope that he will come back down to earth from heaven to establish his glory and his realm of justice forever. Is this second advent of his to be taken as a symbolic one, or will he actually come back?"

Prabhupāda: I do not know. What does he say? What does he say? Explain.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What does he say?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, he quotes, "And then shall appear the sign of the son of man in heaven, and then shall all the tribes of earth mourn and they shall see the son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." In other words... "And shall he send..." There is so many statements in the Bible to allude that Christ will come again.

Prabhupāda: What is the harm if he comes again?

Room Conversation -- April 13, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is a dangerous civilization. You... You should... (pause) Dangerous civilization that labdhvā su-durlabham idaṁ bahu-sambhavānte. After many, many millions of years one gets the chance of becoming a human being, especially civilized and especially in India. They will bring the same. And Kṛṣṇa personally says that if this chance is missed and a person does not become God realized, then he again returns back to the..., to the... Today I am a prime minister. Tomorrow, if I become a dog... What is this civilization? And they will have to become. Nature's law we cannot avoid. And there is no question, "Why you are touching me? I am prime minister." Who cares for you? You have to take account of your activities, karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). So human life is so important, and we are simply wasting this valuable life with this temporary adjustment of so-called happiness or distress, big, big plans. Simply bluffing. Indira Gandhi, one daridrāṇaṁ hata(?): "Poverty drive away." Now she is poverty-stricken. "Oh, you want to drive away poverty? Now drive away your own poverty. Where is your position? How you can drive away? You do not dare to come out." Twelve nights. Within one day. Who has made this? This is possible for everyone. Why do they not care, this important knowledge? This knowledge is India's knowledge, and India government is callous. They are not interested in distributing this knowledge. Sarasvatī jñāna-khale yathā satī. Just like a person who has got enough knowledge, but he does not give it to others, it is to check the flame. Such a risky civilization... The knowledge is there, and people are kept in darkness. What is this? Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So we are the only friends, within this world, of the human society.

Girirāja: That's true. It's a fact.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So He declares that bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra: (CC Adi 9.41) "Anyone who has taken birth as human being, not cats and dogs..." Cats and dogs, they simply jump whole night: "Gow! Gow! Gow!" That is another... We find so many dogs, whole night busy, watching. Whose property he is watching? But he... He has got this business, very busy. As soon as some motorcycle or some..., "Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" watching, watching, watching. So therefore this is business of cats and dogs. But human being's business is different. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, bhārata-bhūmite haila manuṣya-janma yāra: (CC Adi 9.41) "Anyone who has taken birth as a human being in India, bhārata-bhūmi..." Janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra: "First of all make your life perfect"—you have got the opportunity, Vedic culture—"and then distribute the knowledge all over the world for doing good to the whole human society." That will glorify the prestige of India. So why not continue this? Let there be an institution fully following the principles of Bhagavad-gītā, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Then people will be benefited. If you say, "It is secular," Bhagavad-gītā is for every man. There is no question of Hindu, Muslim, Christian or this or that, no. When Kṛṣṇa says,

dehino 'smin yathā dehe
kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
tathā dehāntara-prāptir
dhīras tatra na muhyati
(BG 2.13)

So this growing... A child is growing to become a boy. A boy is growing to become a young man. A young man is growing to become an old man. So what is the secular? Everyone grows. Does it mean, when it is spoken in the Bhagavad-gītā, it is only meant for the Hindus?

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. First of all you can talk. It is not expected that everyone will be able to understand. It is not expected.

manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu
kaścid yatati siddhaye
yatatām api siddhānāṁ
kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ
(BG 7.3)

It is not easy job. But still, some ideal institution should be there who are actually serious to understand. They may be given the chance. That must be there. In the university, when we were students, there were some postgraduate classes that no student was coming. But still, the university maintained that class, paying, in those days, 1,200, 1,500, salaries to the professors. They maintained that. So here there is no question of salary. Here the institution must be maintained, strictly following the principles of Bhagavad-gītā. It is open. It is not difficult at all. Just like Kṛṣṇa says the perfect life, how one can become perfect, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru: (BG 18.65) "Always think of Me," man-manāḥ, "just become My devotee," mad-bhaktaḥ, "worship me," mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru, "simply offer your obeisances unto Me." One, two, three, four-four items. If you do one item at least, your life becomes successful. Even this child can do this. So to understand Bhagavad-gītā and follow the principle—not at all difficult. It is not reserved for any particular class of men or country or society, such a nice thing, and the human body is meant for understanding this knowledge, not to imitate the cats and dogs, jumping. This is being done by the cats and dogs. By evolutionary process, when we come to the human form of life, it is meant for understanding this science. So this opportunity there is, but we are blocking them not to take this knowledge and try to understand how to jump like cats and dogs. Greatest disservice to the human society. We have got such chance, so instead of helping you to get the chance, if I mislead you another way, is it not greatest disservice?

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Everyone is doing(?). But we have rejected. Our misfortune is that our property, we have rejected.

Mr. Rajda: Instead of rejecting, it would be correct to say that we have locked it up.

Prabhupāda: That means we don't take any importance. But now, if you want to do something, then you maintain this institution rigidly, follow the principles of Bhagavad-gītā. It doesn't matter. It doesn't require many men. Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tārā sahasraśaḥ. If there is one moon in the sky, that is sufficient. You don't require millions of stars, twinkling. So let there be an institution, and it is open to everyone. There is no question of "secular" and particular.... Let them learn this art. That is wanted. Not blindly, but apply your consideration and take it after mature judgment. No, what is that? Everything is there. There is no difficulty. Why you are neglecting this important business of India? Do you think it is right?

Mr. Rajda: One should not neglect. And as real it is done, it is better, not only for the world, for India also.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mr. Rajda: Rejected... The impediment was that all those rulers, most of them gave up believing in religion.

Prabhupāda: Why you are bringing religion? It is science. Why you are mistaking again? Is that religion, a child is growing to become a young man? Is that religion? It is science.

Mr. Rajda: But they do not look at from that perspective.

Prabhupāda: That means rascals. They do not accept "Two plus two equal to four."

Mr. Rajda: Yeah, correct. Intelligent...

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian (1): That, Mr. Ratensingh is bound to do.

Prabhupāda: Kindly help me.

Mr. Rajda: No, no, we will think ourselves duty-bound. Oh, I feel intensely about it. There is no question about it.

Prabhupāda: And I guarantee that if they take any part in politics, you can drive away immediately. They have no.... They have given everything. They are not thinking that they are Americans. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). This is the process of bhakti. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam. Upādhi. This is upādhi. I am living being, but I have got some designation, "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim." These are designation. So then they are M.P... This is designation. You are not M.P... You are living being, part and parcel of God.

Mr. Rajda: Correct.

Prabhupāda: And this designation can be moved, removed at any moment. Indira Gandhi, no more prime minis... Designation finished. So sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170), when one become free all designation, tat-paratvena nirmalam, simply by Kṛṣṇa consciousness he becomes purified. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhakti... Then bhakti begins.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Now read the purport.

Lokanātha: "The basic principle of economic development is centered on the land and cows. The necessities of human society are food grains..."

Prabhupāda: About the land and cows, this is Bhagavad-gītā, mentioned, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). Never recommends factory. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). So there is no question of giving protection to the cows if it gives milk only. No. Go-rakṣya. There must be protection to the cow. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Even the cows pass urine and stool, that is beneficial. And if it gives milk, then there is no question. Hm. What is that?

Lokanātha: "The necessities of human society are food grains, fruits, milk, minerals, clothing, wood, etc. One requires all these items to fulfill the material needs of the body. Certainly one does not require flesh and fish or iron tools and machinery. During the regime of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, all over the world there were regulated rainfalls. Rainfalls are not in the control of the human being. The heavenly King Indradeva is the controller of rains, and he is the servant of the Lord. When the Lord is obeyed by the king and the people under the king's administration, there are regulated rains from the horizon, and these rains are the causes of all varieties of production on the land. Not only do regulated rains help ample production of grains and fruits, but when they combine with astronomical influences there is ample production of valuable stones and pearls. Grains and vegetables can sumptuously feed a man and animals, and a fatty cow delivers enough milk to supply a man sumptuously with vigor and vitality. If there is enough milk, enough grains, enough fruit, enough cotton, enough silk and enough jewels, then why do the people need cinemas, houses of prostitution, slaughterhouses, etc.? What is the need of an artificial luxurious life of cinema, cars, radio, flesh and hotels? Has this civilization produced anything but quarreling individually and nationally? Has this civilization enhanced the cause of equality and fraternity by sending thousands of men into a hellish factory and the war fields at the whims of a particular man?

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Ram Jethmalani: Rāmādi.

Prabhupāda: Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu.

Ram Jethmalani: Rāma comes later according to this.

Prabhupāda: No, no, there is no question of later or former. These are always existing. And They appear, disappear according to the necessity. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham (BG 4.7). The mūrtis are there, permanently, and They appear and disappear according to the necessity. Suppose in a case you require the reference to a law. It is not that the law has appeared for the purpose. The law was there already. You have to simply bring it for your business. Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat paramaḥ (Bs. 5.39). Any sweets?

Indian man: Here.

Prabhupāda: Oh, you have got. Madhureka samapayet.(?) At the end you must take some sweets. Then it will be digested. (Hindi)

Ram Jethmalani: In U.P. they give you sweets first.

Indian man: First, at the time of taking water even.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is the system in your society? Sweet first or last?

Indian man: In here also, they are given first sweet.

Conversation with Patita-pavana -- April 20, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Why not?

Patita-pāvana: Okay. There's two especially, Dr. Arkasomayaji and Agnihotram Rāmānuja Tattvācārya. Spiritually, from what you've taught me, I can understand they have some limitations. Their spiritual understanding is not as high as the Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava...

Prabhupāda: There is no question of spiritual understanding.

Patita-pāvana: Yes, but...

Prabhupāda: It requires real scholar.

Patita-pāvana: Yes.

Prabhupāda: If they understand.

Patita-pāvana: Yes. Both have received President's Award.

Prabhupāda: Yes. One who can understand that description in the Fifth Canto rightly, it is... There is no question of whether he's spiritually advanced or not. It is simply academic qualification.

Patita-pāvana: Yes, that is there.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It has nothing to do with spiritual understanding.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So why not let them come here now immediately.

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It was failure.

Mr. Dwivedi: ...he could not succeed.

Prabhupāda: It was failure.

Mr. Dwivedi: If he had tried only religion or only social reform...

Prabhupāda: There is no question of religion. Religion is... Dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90), they are everything. Religion follows same thing, not that religion is impractical.

Mr. Dwivedi: It is nobody's religion, what little I know of the few religions, that to advise that "You must take a particular type of flesh and not the other type."

Prabhupāda: No, flesh you can take if you are carnivorous, but not this cow's flesh. That is particularly instructed in Bhagavad-gītā, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya. Kṛṣṇa did not say that "You be non-meat-eater." That is not possible. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. Every living entity is living by eating another living entity. That is the laws of nature. But there are different types, so in the human society, if there are persons who want to eat flesh, so they can eat that nonimportant, small animal. But don't touch cow. That is Gītā's instruction. Go-rakṣya, He has particularly said. If you are so mean that you have to eat some flesh, there are hogs, dogs, and... And you can eat. But don't touch cow. Gandhi posed himself as a great student of Bhagavad-gītā, but he did not understand a single line. That is the defect. Gandhi took it, Bhagavad-gītā, as a childish play. Dangerous... Therefore country is ruined. You must take Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Then there is authority. You cannot change it. If you change it, where is the authority? Can you change the simple law, "Keep to the right; keep to the left"? No. It is authority. If the direction is "Keep to the right," you must keep to the right. You cannot say that "What is the wrong if I keep to the left?" Then there is no authority. So Gandhi, Tilak, and Aurobindo and so on, so on, they took Bhagavad-gītā as a childish play. Whatever they want, they interpret that. And Vivekananda supported, yato mata tato patha: "You can have your own opinion." These are all nonsense. Therefore country is ruined. You must take as it is. Then it will be... You cannot change the authority of Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa says, kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya... (BG 18.44)..

Mr. Dwivedi: Vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam.

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Dwivedi: There is no question of cooperation. We fully believe what you say. Cooperation means...

Prabhupāda: Cooperation means what we say they must do.

Mr. Dwivedi: We have firm faith in what you say.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then we can take any...

Mr. Dwivedi: Cooperation can come even from a person who may not understand a whit.

Prabhupāda: No, cooperation means that.

Mr. Dwivedi: In our own small way we try to live to what Your Grace has been telling me. We live actually in life.

Prabhupāda: Don't try to... That is cooperation. Don't try to amend the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. That is cooperation. The rascals, they amend. And what can I do? I can use this strong word. This is used in the Bhagavad-gītā, mūḍhāḥ, narādhamāḥ, duṣkṛtinaḥ. So it is not my manufacture. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). Why we should amend Kṛṣṇa's word? Surrender and do. That is cooperation. All these swamis who...

Mr. Dwivedi: Are we even one millionth of what Kṛṣṇa was? If we are even one millionth of what Kṛṣṇa was, we...

Prabhupāda: No, you are. You are. Kṛṣṇa says. You are sample of Kṛṣṇa.

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa condemned it, kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam: "You are trying to become nonviolent." And Gandhi became more than Kṛṣṇa, nonviolent. What is this nonsense? Kṛṣṇa chastised Arjuna, kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam, anārya-juṣṭam: "These things are spoken by the anāryas, not by the Aryans."

Mr. Dwivedi: No, He advised, quite right, hato vā prāpsyasi svargaṁ jitvā vā bhokṣyase mahīm, tasmāt...

Prabhupāda: No, no, in politics, when you deal in politics there is no question... Kṣatriya therefore. These things should be trained up. Some of them should be trained up as brāhmaṇa. Some of them should be trained up as kṣatriya, some of them as vaiśya. They are required. So these things we want to organize. We can give you instruction. We can give you help. Now you have to do it, the leading... But it will be done. If you follow our instruction, it will be done. So the buildings are there. There is no...

Mr. Dwivedi: The buildings...

Prabhupāda: Simply it has to be repaired. Climate, I think, it is good, eh? Eh?

Mr. Dwivedi: Climate is fine, particularly of the place where we have our headquarters, very pleasant, in summer especially, very pleasant. We don't have bad nights.

Prabhupāda: Why not go? If we go there, eh? In this time?

Mr. Dwivedi: The... In the way it might not be so pleasant, but when we have reached there it is quite pleasant because we are at a height of about 684 feet, then surrounded by forest. So therefore we don't have this heat wave in that area. And especially when we are at our college building we can telephone not to...

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: If you understand Kṛṣṇa, then kuṭumbakam. If you don't understand your father, where is kuṭumbaka? (Hindi) Kitna (Hindi) ...foolish idea. You do not recognize the father, and crying for brother. If you understand Kṛṣṇa, then vāsudhaiva-kuṭumbakam. If you do not understand, it is foolishness. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). If you can understand your position as part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, Paraṁ Brahma... Kṛṣṇa... Paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). Everything in the Bhagavad-gītā... If you understand that "I am part and parcel of Paraṁ Brahma. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. I am also Brahman," that is brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20). Prasannātmā na śocati..., samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Then you can claim this vāsudeva... If you do not understand Kṛṣṇa, it is all nonsense, simply slogan. Where is kuṭumbaka? Then where is nationalism? I have gone to preach in the foreign countries—really on kuṭumbakam, not that "I am Indian. He is American. He is Englishman." Then there is no question of kuṭumbakam. And people are fighting on this plane. This vāsudhaiva-kuṭumbakam... Then why you asked the Englishmen to go away, quit India? What do you say?

Mr. Dwivedi: Narrow nationalism.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Mr. Dwivedi: Narrow nationalism.

Prabhupāda: If you... If you think kuṭumbakam. Suppose some kuṭumba has come to your house. You ask him, "Go out"? This is our system. Gṛhe śatrum api prāptam. This is Indian culture. When you receive somebody at your home, even if he's your enemy-gṛhe śatrum api prāptam—you should treat with him in such a way that he'll forget that he's your enemy. Viśvastam akutobhayam. That was India's culture. Bhīma went to Jarāsandha to fight. Whole day it was fight. It was kṣatriya's fight. Unless one is dead, the fight will continue. So Bhīma and Jarāsandha were equally powerful, so no decision. But still, he was guest at Jarāsandha's house. At night they were eating together, talking together. This is India's culture. They forgot. Arjuna went to see in the battlefield to Duryodhana. And Duryodhana immediately said, "Come here, my brother. You have come. What do you want? How can I help you? You want your kingdom without fight? I can give you." He said, "No, no, that is not my business." This is kṣatriya. He... He thought that "He has come to beg." "No, no, that already... That we shall decide in the battlefield." This is kṣatriya. But when he's at my place, I offer, "All right, if you want without fight, you can take." This is... They... This is India's culture. Ei sab mahābhārata hai, "History of Greater India." (Hindi) Apkara Gandhiji (Hindi) fiction hai.

Conversation: Vairagya, Salaries, and Political Etiquette -- April 28, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Gopāla said.

Girirāja: Yeah. So I thought it would be better just to...

Prabhupāda: No, there is no question of.

Girirāja: Yeah. No, I agree completely. I mean, you're millions and billions of times greater than anyone, so there's no question...

Prabhupāda: No, apart from that, if one has no proper respect for a saintly person, he's useless man. You cannot have any benefit. Or neither he can derive any benefit.

Girirāja: Yeah.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: From all sides.

Girirāja: Because he'll think he has nothing to learn, that he is already in the best position.

Prabhupāda: And we don't require any from, anything from them, but for the whole human society's welfare we can suggest him, "Do like this." That is our... But we don't require anything from them.

Girirāja: I know that. This is your...

Conversation with Vedic Astronomer -- April 30, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So you'll go there, then... But we have brought him to make here.

Patita Uddhāraṇa: Can you not work with us here for some time on this chart?

Prabhupāda: No, no, why sometimes? This purpose, you went there to bring him, and now he'll go to town and do.

Patita Uddhāraṇa: When I met...

Prabhupāda: No, no question of when you met. This was the purpose.

Patita Uddhāraṇa: Can we not begin the chart immediately?

Prabhupāda: I wanted to make it before me.

Indian Astronomer: The difficulty is, we never studied in this way Bhāgavatam, so it is not easy to paint a diagram immediately. It will take time. Studying Bhāgavata, simply what is the text...

Prabhupāda: So you have no practical idea?

Indian Astronomer: Eh?

Prabhupāda: You have no practical idea?

Indian Astronomer: No, have so many ideas, vague, not practical. This is here in five days(?).

Prabhupāda: No, no, vague idea is not good. You for some days stay here and do it here.

Indian Astronomer: I am told that Arka-somayaji is also coming here.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Why one? Let him come. (Hindi) I think I speak in English. Otherwise they will not understand. The first thing is that "I am not this body." This is the first instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. And if you do not understand the first instruction, then where is the use of going ahead? This is the defect. Bhagavān said,

aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ
prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase
gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca
nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ
(BG 2.11)

"My dear Arjuna, you are lamenting for your family and bodily relationships. But this is not the subject matter for learned persons. And you are talking just like a learned man, 'What will happen if these, my brothers' wives become widows and this and that?' " That means in a gentlemanly way He said that "You are talking like a nonsense because you have no real subject matter." Agatāsūṁś ca. So far this body is concerned, either living or dead, it is a not a subject matter for learned talk. It is a lump of matter. And what is life? Then He said that

dehino 'smin yathā dehe
kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
tathā dehāntara-prāptir
dhīras tatra na muhyati
(BG 2.13)

Life is within the body, the soul. And because the soul is there, therefore a baby is becoming child, a child is becoming a boy, a boy is becoming young man, young man becoming old man, and the old man, when he passes, he gets another body. Very simple thing. As you are changing your body, now you're changing this body—you are there actually—so you accept another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati: (BG 2.13) "Those who are sober, intelligent, they are not disturbed." So if this is the fact, dehāntara-prāpti... After this body you have to accept another body. If you do not know what kind of body you are going to accept... There is no question of acceptance. You'll be forced to accept. It is not that your choice. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ asya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. You have to accept one body according to your karma. If you have behaved like a human being, you can get the body of a human being. If you have behaved like a dog, you'll get the body of a dog. And if you have behaved like demigod, you'll get.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: This is going on. Therefore this life is preparation for the next life. These are simple truth. But people are in ignorance. They do not know anything. And they're keeping them in ignorance and bluffing them in so many ways. The whole duty, I am going... If I am going to accept another body, then where is the question of my nationalism? If I am eternal... Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), na jāyate na mriyate vā. If I do not take my birth, if I do not die, and na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), and I'll have to accept another body, then, so long I have got this body, I may be big politician, big philanthropist, but next life, if I am going to be dog, then where is the value of this prime ministership, big, big...? And where is my nation? Where is my country? Where is my family? So things are going on in ignorance. And they are kept in ignorance. And big, big worship, your... Nānuśocanti. This is going on. And the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is meant for reforming all these nonsense activities. This is sum and... Everyone's kept in ignorance, and being frustrated, they want to make it zero. Where is zero? Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). There is no question of zero. Na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). But the rascal are thinking, "Make it zero," in gross disappointment. But there is life, just hope for a blissful life, for eternal life. And that is really we want to make. And you want to make it zero? Actually it is not zero. You do not know your ignorance. So this rascaldom is going on, and there are many supporters. What can be done? We are trying to reform the society.

Indian man (1): What is the nature of the jīvātmā?

Prabhupāda: Jīva is explained. You do not know? You have not read Bhagavad-gītā?

Indian man (1): Hm hm. But what...?

Prabhupāda: Then say. You do say. You do not know?

Indian man (1): Hm.

Prabhupāda: Then tell me what is that.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Dog is also doing that. Is he householder? Taking care of children, the dog is also doing that. So is he householder? First of all, you do not know what is meant by householder. Taking care of children, that is done by the birds. In the nest the small kiddies are there, and they are bringing food and pushing in the mouth, (makes bird noise:) "Tee, tee, tee, tee, tee." Are they householder? And if you think they are householder, you are also householder like the dogs and birds. You do not know what is householder. Therefore you have to consult śāstra, who is a householder. Śāstra says, pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum: "You should not become a father and mother unless you take the responsibility for children that no more birth." Because this is the problem, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). If you are so able father and mother that you can stop this miserable condition of your children, then you become householder. That is householder. Otherwise what is the use of becoming a householder like dogs and cats? There is no use. There are so many cats and dogs. What is use of increasing? Now government is forcing: "Do not produce cats and dogs. Take these inhibitions(?)." Because the whole world is fed up with these cats and dogs householders. Real householder is, śāstra says, "Don't become a father, don't become a mother, if you cannot protect your children..." Samupeta-mṛtyum. And they are required. If you can do that, then you are welcome. You can produce hundreds of children. But you cannot protect yourself; how you'll be able to protect your children? All bogus. Householder is allowed, as brahmacārī-āśrama, gṛhastha-āśrama. It is not meant that... Big, big personality were householder. Lord Rāmacandra was householder. Arjuna was householder. Prahlāda Mahārāja was a householder. Janaka Mahārāja was householder. But they were not cats and dogs. So be householder. You do the duty of real householder. Don't become cats and dogs. Then where is human civili...? What is the distinct between cats and dogs and human civilization if you do the same thing? Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna. Then you are huma..., not even human being. What is the question of householder? Be householder as it is in the civilized codes, human history, they are... Otherwise refrain. Householder does not mean to satisfy, what is called, itching sensation of the genitals. That is not householder. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). To satisfy the itching sensation, that is not householder. Here is householder. Protect your children from death. Can you do that? That kind of householder, at least, the trees on the street, everywhere... There is no question of becoming householder. The whole Bhagavad-gītā... Arjuna, he was householder. He was politician. So he did not give up anything. Before his hearing Bhagavad-gītā he was the same, a large family, and he was fighting for some material interests. And after hearing Bhagavad-gītā he remained the same, not that he gave up fighting and went to the forest. These things are not required. But he changed his consciousness-kariṣye vacanaṁ tava (BG 18.73). And that is required. You remain in any condition of life, but follow the instruction of Kṛṣṇa. That is the perfection.

Room Conversation -- May 8, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Indian man (1): In that state also, there will be compassion.

Prabhupāda: There is no question of compassionate. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. You are in a normal stage. Śocati. Compassion is also śocati: "Oh, this man is poor. I'll help him." That is śocati. That brahma-bhūtaḥ, na śocati na kāṅkṣati. That is really... Where is compassion? He has taken this material body. He has to suffer. What is, your compassion will help him?

Indian woman (5): But it seems to come...

Prabhupāda: That first of all you understand. You have to die. If I think, "Oh, you should not die," so what my, this compassion will help you? You have to die. Then what is the use of this compassion? If you give him something that he will not die, that is real compassion. Suppose if there is a boil here, I am suffering, and you come, "Oh, you are suffering?" is that compassion?

Indian woman (5): But you feel a pain also in your...

Prabhupāda: You feel, but what is the meaning of that feeling? You cannot do anything.

Indian woman (5): No. It is not possible.

Prabhupāda: So this kind of compassion also, it is all useless. It is wasted.

Evening Darsana -- May 9, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Yes. From historical reference it is so, but it can go still farther, and in that way India's glories will be magnified. But unfortunately our leaders and government are callous. They do not know what is India's glory and how India's glory can be distributed. They are trying that India's glory will be magnified by imitating Western way of life. This is the defect. They can understand that the Western way of life has not given them actual happiness. Otherwise why these boys, they are coming to India? They are young boys, and they are coming from very respectable family, rich family, rich nation. They have no economic problem. They have not come here to earn their livelihood, as we go to England to learn something, technology, and earn our livelihood. They have not come here for that purpose. They have enough food, enough everything, material. They are hankering after some spiritual... So there are two sides. (aside:) Why you are reducing? So our leaders, rather, they are misinterpreting śāstra, our leaders, and trying to mold it to the material way of life. This is the pity of the thing. Now you should reform them in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and real United Nations will be formed. There will be no question of nationalism. In the Bhagavad-gītā... Big, big leaders, they are reading Bhagavad-gītā, but is there any word as "nationalism"?

Indian man (1): None.

Prabhupāda: And big, big leaders, they are utilizing Bhagavad-gītā for so-called nationalism. Why? There is not a single word as "nationalism." As Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). Where is nationalism? There is no question of nationalism. So the difficulty is they do not understand even a line of Bhagavad-gītā, and still, the so-called scholars, philosophers, politicians, they are advertising that "I am student." They do not understand even a line of... This is my challenge. What do you think? They do not understand. Even Gandhi did not understand, not a single line.

Indian man (1): Gandhi did believe in trusteeship theory.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Evening Darsana -- May 9, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Indian man (1): You have cautioned that hither, to read the Bhagavad-gītā as it is.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the way. And their purpose is that "Bhagavad-gītā should be utilized for my rascaldom." This is going on. (Hindi) This is our mission. Don't manufacture nonsense. It will never be successful.

Indian man (3): This, all about Russian international...

Prabhupāda: First of all, there is no question of nationalism. It is all bogus.

Indian man (3): No, that you have spoken. Our request is how best we can intimate the teachings of Gītā in the spreading of this...

Prabhupāda: It is already there. It is already there. You kindly take it.

Indian man (3): How to intimate in our daily life...?

Prabhupāda: You understand. The difficulty is you do not understand even a line of Bhagavad-gītā. Still, you say that you are student of Bhagavad-gītā. This is difficulty.

Indian man (3): I see. Then how to understand it?

Prabhupāda: It is there already. But you are blind. You are cheater. You see things, one thing, and you speak another thing. You are cheating. Now, in the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā, when Arjuna surrendered to Kṛṣṇa as a student-śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam: (BG 2.7) "Kṛṣṇa, there will be no utility by arguing. I know that I am not doing my duty. I am kṣatriya. I am in the active field, and I am declining to fight. This is not good for me." Kārpaṇya-doṣopahata-svabhāvaḥ: "So I can understand that I am puzzled that how I can kill such enemies who are my family members? This is my problem." (aside:) Here is a monkey. (Hindi)

Evening Darsana -- May 12, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: What?

Indian man (5): And Kṛṣṇa had promised definitely that He would appear whenever there is...

Prabhupāda: Yes, He has appeared, nāma-rūpe avatāra.

Indian man (5): So I think we are passing through a greater hell than what was...

Prabhupāda: No, no, the disease is there; the remedy is there. If you take the remedy, so there is no question of suffering from the disease. But you refuse to take the remedy. Just like this verse from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Twelfth Canto. This Kali-yuga is the ocean of faults. Why should we lament for that? The remedy is there. Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta... (SB 12.3.51). You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. You'll become relieved immediately. So why don't you take the remedy? Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti. Why you are so much disturbed by māyā? Just surrender to Kṛṣṇa. So it is our choice. We do not do that, and we suffer. Mām aprāpya nivartante mṛtyu-saṁsāra... Kṛṣṇa is giving personally. He has taken you, and we are not accepting. What can be done? The knowledge is there, the process is there, the authority is there, all the ācāryas, they have accepted, but we are so stubborn, we'll not accept. That is the difficulty. We'll manufacture our own ways. Yato mata tato patha. That is the difficulty. So it is past six. Have some kīrtana. (kīrtana begins) (end)

GBC Meets with Srila Prabhupada -- May 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā (CC Madhya 7.128). One can understand the order of Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he can become guru. Or one who understands his guru's order, the same paramparā, he can become guru. And therefore I shall select some of you. (hums)

Satsvarūpa: That's all the questions.

Prabhupāda: So there is no question of changing GBC.

Satsvarūpa: No.

Prabhupāda: Rather, one who is competent, he can be selected to act by the board of the GBC.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Of course, if someone has a falldown, just like in the past some GBC men have fallen down...

Prabhupāda: He should be replaced.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then he should be replaced. But that's a serious falldown, not some minor discrepancy.

Prabhupāda: They must be all ideal ācārya-like. In the beginning we have done for working. Now we should be very cautious. Anyone who is deviating, he can be replaced.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So Śrīla Prabhupāda, there's chanting party ready to do saṅkīrtana. So may they come in?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Srila Prabhupada Vigil -- May 28-29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, I am very much confident of this medicine because nobody is prepared to die, but I am prepared to die. That much strength I have got. Generally people do not like to die. But I will be very glad to die if Kṛṣṇa wants. This is... And I shall stay with you. I have no objection either way. But I am not afraid of death. That much strength I have got. Why shall I be afraid? There is no cause of...

Jayatīrtha: Jaya.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Bhakta-sane bās. Such a great opportunity. You are all pure devotees. To live with you and to die while you are chanting, such a great opportunity. So there is no question of being afraid of death. (break) Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, of course, we have our preference.

Prabhupāda: I have no objection. I have no... (break) Whatever His desire is, I... (end)

Conversations with Kirtana Groups -- May 29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Silicic acid, it forms with water and silicon.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So... And without water, where silica comes? They are all rascals. Wherever there is silica, there must be water, dried up or existing.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's true, though, that there is water, but not as much as we find...

Prabhupāda: But that is another. Water must be there. Without water, there is no question of silica.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I was thinking that... Just like in the sun planet, you said the body has to be fiery, like the sun, so in that sense the...

Prabhupāda: That does not mean there is no water.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There is water, but it's very small amount.

Prabhupāda: Small or big, that is another thing. There must be water. Even within the fire there is water.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So life has to develop through that water.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That water, that small amount of water, the life has to develop.

Prabhupāda: There is no question of... That small amount is sufficient, according to the circumstance. Just like in the desert they don't require much water, the camels. Once drunk, they can go on the desert for three days. You cannot do that. There is water. Otherwise how watermelon is coming?

Conversations -- May 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Rāmeśvara: If we did it in America, it would not be less expensive. It might be even more expensive, because you have to order a special font for the Hindi alphabet. I've gone over this with Gopāla, and he says that so far, he is able to keep up with the translators. He is just now in Bombay, giving some more books in Hindi to the printer. Bhāgavatam 1.3 and Bhagavad-gītā in Hindi are going to the printer. And the translator is just still working on the first volume of Second Canto. As far as printing, this printer in Bombay called Usha is giving us very good service at a very low price. So it's a good place to print the books, the Hindi books. (pause) There's no question of buying equipment in India because it's too expensive for us to buy our own equipment.

Prabhupāda: No, that is...

Rāmeśvara: Plus it will not be repaired when it breaks.

Prabhupāda: That is very risky.

Rāmeśvara: We can tell these composers that "We are offering so many books for many, many years to come. We will give you so much business if you work faster." (pause)

Prabhupāda: Bring little bhaskar lavan.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Little bhaskar lavan. (pause)

Indian devotee (1): They are just coming with it, Prabhupāda. (pause)

Jayapatākā: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Discussions with Devotees and Conversation with Dr. Ghosh -- June 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is natural. Causing everyone else means the same group. Andhā yathāndhaiḥ. One who is blind, he can be cheated by another blind man. But one who is not blind, if the blind man wants to cheat him, that "I can help you crossing the room," he will laugh, that "This rascal is blind, and he has offered me to help me. We take this, that if a person is... We know that he is defective. His knowledge is imperfect. What knowledge he will give? Immediately reject him.

Harikeśa: He can give good knowledge on how to accelerate death.

Prabhupāda: That is natural. There is no question of his accelerating. It is already going on in this world. (pause) So many things we have to discuss. Is it not? People are in darkness in so many ways. Therefore we have to take the standard knowledge.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Always comes to the...

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Little cold water. And our mission is to deliver them by giving knowledge. Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Our mission is not to keep men in darkness. Otherwise "Let them go to hell, śūnyavādi. We don't..." No. They should not remain in that way. They should come to the real light. This is our policy. (pause)

Bhakti-caru: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Nārāyaṇa Mahārāja (Bengali).

Harikeśa: When we finish this description, our understanding of this description of the universe, and present it to the scientists and to the world, people will become astounded.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) (loud fan noise) What is that jīva-bhūta? They are living entities. Jīva-bhūtāṁ mahā-bā... Yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat. Without that these jīva-bhūta, these material elements are developed? Where is that? Find out this verse.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In Gītā?

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The reaction from that Dr. Kundu... As soon as I said Bhaktivedanta, he immediately realized that this is the personal aspect or, they would say, the personalism or Vaiṣṇava philosophy. So it is also a good fact on those who know some meaning about this. So we can make it...

Prabhupāda: Unless there is personal conception, there is no question of bhakti. (break) Bhakti means the way to understand the person. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). Mām means person, aham, mām. Vague idea, Brahman; distributed idea, Paramātmā; and the personal idea can be applied here. It is said, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). It is not impersonal, not scattered. Particular person, Kṛṣṇa. When Yaśodā-mā was allowing her child to suck her breast, the child was.... And Yasoda mother was enjoying the beautiful face, patting. But all of a sudden she saw within the mouth the whole universe. Immediately she became disturbed: "Another danger is coming." She's not concerned with Kṛṣṇa's expansive, gorgeous.... She's only concern is to Kṛṣṇa, what.... She became disturbed: "What is this nonsense? Again something is coming, danger? Let me remember Nārāyaṇa. He'll save my child from all..." The personal conception is so strong that he (she) disliked to see gorgeous opulence of his (her)...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Therefore it transcends jñāna.

Prabhupāda: That is jñāna.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's so scientific, it's very difficult to also describe it, especially in scientific language.

Prabhupāda: Why you have to do?

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Not thousand. Millions, the very beginning. God has brain; therefore we have got brain.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They call Creation Research Institute. They have office in San Diego.

Prabhupāda: There is no question of creation. God is not creator, er, not created. He is creator. And as long as God is there, the living beings... It is not uncertain. The nityaḥ, śāśvataḥ. Then these two words would not have been used if it is created. He never said.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is eternal.

Prabhupāda: Na jāyate na mriyate. He never said. Cannot create. They want to create life. Rascal, you cannot do. Not at all. You have got sanity?

Śatadhanya: Śrīla Prabhupāda, can you sleep? It's time.

Prabhupāda: I can give you idea. Now you develop. Whatever ideas I am giving, it is nonrefutable idea, final.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It also makes difficult for others to argue.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) When there is argument? Nonsense, how you can argue? And therefore you are rascal. And that is also forbidden. Acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet: "Things which are beyond your conception, don't foolishly argue, rascal." That will prove your rascaldom. Better accept what the authority says. It is beyond your conception, rascal. Why you are wasting time? That we want to say, that all of them are rascals, and they are simply wasting time by false idea. Cheating. You know, there are companies. They'll... They have got photographic studio. So they adjust their moon hoax. They'll help you. If you have got particular idea... They are going to the moon planet, Mars. Nowhere the rascals go. There is no knowledge. How they can go? Teeny, imperfect. So if we can prove that they have no knowledge of the universe, neither of the position of their...

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They must accept. They have to accept.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: You are all young men. Who wants to become an invalid man like me? With three men I have to walk. Nobody wants. But you have to accept. I did not like. But you have to accept, compulsory. What is the use of saying, "Why shall I accept?" You... "Why?" There is no question of "Why?" You have to. That is the control.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They might argue that...

Prabhupāda: What is the meaning of argue? I'll beat you with shoes. You have to accept. What is the use of argument?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Like a madman.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Nature will beat you with shoes. You have to accept.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They'll say, "We have seen old men, but we have never seen anyone change their body."

Prabhupāda: This is not change? You are a young man; now you have become old. Then you have no eyes. You are blind. I was not a young man?

Devotee (3): But they will argue, "What is the necessary..."

Prabhupāda: What is the use of argument? You have to change. You are going to be hanged. There is no argument. You must be hanged.

Devotee (3): But why a dog's body?

Conversation, 'Rascal Editors,' and Morning Talk -- June 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So you do not... You live. You go along with him. You'll see. Change means that... That is their defect. The change... Change means you have to accept any change. You see or not see. Tathā dehāntaram. Deha, the body, will change. You have got eight millions bodies. It can change to any one. There is no question of seeing. The suggestion is that you have to change. Now, in which body you are going to change, that you cannot see. So how you claim that "I cannot see"? That you cannot... There will be change. So how the change will take? Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1), by superior administration and by your karma.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Subtle law.

Prabhupāda: Subtle law.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Beyond physical laws.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, physical law. Just like worm will change into butterfly. You can see.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Science accepts that all the cells in human body changes completely in seven years.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Every seven years...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...all change. So change is actually...

Conversation with Surendra Kumar and O.B.L. Kapoor -- June 26, 1977, Vrndavana:

Surendra Kumar: I told him, first thing, that I am here because I am a life member and I am a devotee of Prabhupāda. That's why I'm here.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Surendra Kumarji praises your efforts very much.

Surendra Kumar: No, there is no question of my praising. The world knows about in fact. His wonders may be...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: This is Prabhupāda's Īśopaniṣad in Arabic. The Middle East countries are buying it.

Surendra Kumar: These people from Tehran... And my friend is a Muslim. He is very... He is just like my sister and my wife's very intimate friend.

Prabhupāda: We have no such question, Hindu, Muslim...

Surendra Kumar: She said, "I'm going to become a devotee. I'm going to become a life member."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, very good. She's from Delhi?

Surendra Kumar: No, from Aligarh. So yesterday my wife said that "I am going to see Prabhupāda," she said, "I am coming with you."

Mrs. Kumar(?): (Hindi)

Surendra Kumar: She was there when you were there in Aligarh, in my house.

Prabhupāda: I have many Muslims.

Talk About Varnasrama, S.B. 2.1.1-5 -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Ornament for the wife.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That could be...

Prabhupāda: Because she likes ornament, gold, and they have got molten(?) in the jewelry.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How do you get the money back? Sell it?

Prabhupāda: Hm? There is no question. It is saving. Suppose you want two hundred rupees. After spending, if there is three hundred rupees, invest hundred rupees in ornament.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But how do you save enough money to get the house if you have all ornaments?

Prabhupāda: You keep it. Don't deposit in bank.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They don't trust this banking system.

Prabhupāda: No, formerly there was no bank practically. Now they... Generally, ordinary man, whatever little saving is there, they will invest in metal utensils, in ornament, in Benarsi sari, like that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Benarsi sari also considered very valuable.

Prabhupāda: It is golden, gold border. You can... When you want to..., mean an old Benarsi sari..., you can go. There are persons, they'll take it, and they'll burn it, and the borders will take care, either silver or gold. Still in Delhi we find. Any investment were... Not this plastic plate and paper plate.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. Whenever they buy something, it must have value.

Prabhupāda: Must have value. That is Indian investment.

Conversations -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And... What do you call, this science?

Śatadhanya: Anthropology.

Prabhupāda: Anthropology. Anthropology we believe; as it is stated in the Vedas, we believe, one after another. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarāḥ... That is the... The soul is changing. So there is no question of... "Survival of the fittest." Nonsense. Who is fit?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No one except the devotee is fit.

Prabhupāda: Everyone is dying. Who is the fittest?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The devotee is alone eternal.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore the devotees, they do not know. They are all rascals, animals. But here, this statement, "fittest," who is fittest?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really no one.

Prabhupāda: Still the theory is going on, "Survival of the fittest."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say some are more fit than others.

Prabhupāda: But who is that fit, rascal?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who is the most fit?

Prabhupāda: Who is that? Show me.

Conversation with Bhakti-caitanya Swami-New GBC -- June 30, 1977, Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: No, "try..." Actually prove. No, don't try.

Akṣayānanda: I'm doing it, actually, at the expense of... They get angry but...

Prabhupāda: There is no question of angry. It is not our...

Akṣayānanda: Just recently I sent about three or four of them out, and they all became...

Prabhupāda: If they want to live without any payment, let them go to Māyāpur. There is enough place. We don't deny that. But here, in the guestroom, they will occupy without any payment.

Akṣayānanda: No, there's only one big room. It's right at the back, and it's not a very nice room. The guests do not like that room. And they have... I sent two or three to Ahmedabad also. They have a little room, Ahmedabad, especially now.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Akṣayānanda: Yaśomatī-nandana, he has also facility, so often I send them there.

Prabhupāda: Yaśomatī-nandana? Ahmedabad?

Akṣayānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Akṣayānanda: Especially single women.

Conversation -- June 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Gargamuni: Nowhere in the world. Everyone has money.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Money is coming there. Guru Mahārāja said that "You do the right work, money will come. Money will fall down on your feet." There is no question of flattering. Do. Work sincerely. Everything will come, whatever you want. I wish I could go there. I would have told(?). Even in this state I can go. There is no difficulty. But little difficulty... And carried in this chair, I can go anywhere. And what is this? No, where is the difficulty?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, yeah, as long as you're sitting...

Prabhupāda: Even I require four men to take care of me, that's all right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Whether you're sitting in here or sitting in Colombo, it's the same.

Prabhupāda: It is same thing. And I am taken from one place to another by chair. So where is the difficulty? There is no difficulty. It is difficulty by imagination.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise no difficulty. Jaya Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma. Nitāi-Gaura Rādhā-Śyāma, Jaya Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma. It is symmetrical.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very symmetrical. Very... Actually it goes in my mind a lot now.

Conversation -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But you had... But he had a reservation that before any change like this can be made, Akṣayānanda Mahārāja should also be acceptable to his proposal, because right now he's managing everything himself. So...

Prabhupāda: That... Whatever I'll say, he'll accept. There is no question of refusing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right.

Prabhupāda: Whatever I'll order...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I mean, he has to hear that from you. That's what I was trying to indicate.

Prabhupāda: I'll give you whatever you demand.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, he is completely surrendered.

Prabhupāda: There is no problem. Now show us. Let us practically see that what has happened by changing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Changing. You have to show some results now.

Mr. Myer: Quite right. Quite right.

Prabhupāda: Or doing something or not doing, whatever I'll order...

Mr. Myer: No, this may mean certain major reorganization in terms of the managing account. It is sort of personal. So it will have to be...

Prabhupāda: They'll do. They'll do whatever I ask.

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They do not marry for being... Or they kill children. They are doing that. Where is the question of "four," "two"? These are all nonsense program. They do not know how to do things. We welcome. Four, nei. Four hundred. Come on. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that "I am a brahmacārī-sannyāsī, but if I can bring Kṛṣṇa conscious child, I can beget hundred children. I have no objection." And that is... There is no question of four or two. Four hundred—if you can make them Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the criterion. That is required. But that, they do not know. They'll not be able to maintain properly even one children, one child. That's not possible. But that is the difficulty in In... They do not know the laws of nature, the laws of God, how things are going on, although they are being explained. They'll... There are so many things. They are jumping like monkey. That's all. They... They take photograph for "Gītā student," and they do not understand one line, even one line. In the beginning, the Bhagavad-gītā is tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ: (BG 2.13) "This body will change." Do they take it seriously? So what is the use of their reading Bhagavad-gītā? Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara, na hanyate hanyamāne (BG 2.20). Do they take seriously, that "I am eternal. I do not die after the annihilation of the body. And the body will change. What I am going to do?" So this is going on, and still, they are... Gandhi is... "He is great student of Bhagavad-gītā." He is... "Tilak is a great student." "Dr. Radhakrishnan..." All rascals. All rascals. They do not understand even one line. If they study only one line, they'll be able to bring a great transforming to the... Do you think they do understand this line?

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Then it is not helping ISKCON.

Mr. Myer: No, you see, they're...

Prabhupāda: It is not helping ISKCON.

Mr. Myer: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Within the scope the support is gone.

Prabhupāda: There is no question of support. It is etiquette.

Mr. Myer: It is etiquette now.

Akṣayānanda: Etiquette.

Prabhupāda: American is giving. I am permanent resident of America. If they are giving Indians permanent resident for some business, why not Americans?

Mr. Myer: Well, that is because Indira... She was prime minister, you see. She was very bad...

Prabhupāda: So that is gone.

Mr. Myer: They have all exploded that wall, you see. That's what, how the government... So people said that... They're giving money for vague and, which is, at the time, I think... Now I think they have met recently in England. So there is some programs in India. Even Terawal(?) now... Everywhere there is some... After Morarji Desai has taken over, our relations are improving with all the countries.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now who is correct? Who will decide? I accuse you, you accuse me. But who is correct? Who will decide? That is śāstra. There is no question of argument. That is called pratiṣṭhā. You will never come to any conclusion by arguing. I think you are wrong, you think I am wrong. Somebody must decide. Judge. And that is śāstra.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Supposing they say...

Prabhupāda: They say, we are saying so many things. In the court there are two parties. I say something, another party says. The judge is there. He has now decision.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then they'll ask for the verse to prove it, and we must quote the correct śloka to substantiate our claim.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That the judge gives. Judges according to lawbook. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). So we have to approach the right person who can give the judgment. What is their answer about this, that by chemical combination they cannot produce life? Still why they are insisting?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are rascals.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the value of rascal's statement?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No value. Lunatic asylum.

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, these things cannot be tested.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, I'm not saying...

Prabhupāda: Mother says, "Here is your father." That's all. Finish. No test. No question. That is foolishness.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I was using the word "task." That to... I'll have to bring in Bhakti-prema Swami. Maybe he can speak better. I'm not able to explain. But according to the description in the Bhāgavatam, everything that we've read, it is not petals. So let's... I don't know. On one hand you are asking us to follow the...

Prabhupāda: Bhāgavatam, one portion may not be exactly like... Just like if you are in the midst of the petal, you cannot understand it is petal. You see it is flat. You have shown in the map, there is a point so many miles. So that petal, middle portion, you can take it flat. It is not flat. It is curved. Whatever conception you make, that is defective. Rascals. First of all you have to understand this. So don't make it like this, like this, like this, like... Whatever it is said, that is all right. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said aśraddadhānāḥ. No faith. Faithless. We have challenged, by chemical combination make a small egg, sparrow's egg, and produce.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They can't do anything.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the value of your experiment? And still they are saying. This one point will kill them. Why do they not take this challenge? Huh?

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhakti-prema: How to take them to (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: There is no question of take them. If you take, he's all right. If you don't take, we cannot change.

Bhakti-prema: As long as we cannot show them.

Prabhupāda: First of all you have to prove that you are imperfect.

Bhakti-prema: That has already been proved.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You're simply insisting on things by "probably." "Probably beyond the Himalaya there is something." That is one thing. We say "Definitely, here is. Beyond the Himalayas like this, that." That is the difference. You say "probably," I say "definitely." Father, mother said, "Here is your father." You can say "probably," and mother is saying "definitely." She knows perfectly. You may say probably he may be your father, but mother knows that definitely. Therefore we take Vedas as mother, Purāṇas as sister. Śukadeva Gosvāmī is explaining it. Iti śuśruma. But śuśruma, why he should waste his valuable time? He knows it is definite. So unless you come to this standpoint that whatever is spoken in the Vedic literature, that is definite, you cannot be convinced by argument. Tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnā nāsāv ṛṣir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam, mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). Śukadeva Gosvāmī said—that's all. Mahājano yena. Vaiyāsakiḥ.

svayambhūr nāradaḥ śambhuḥ
kumāraḥ kapilo manuḥ
prahlādo janako bhīṣmo
balir vaiyāsakir vayam
(SB 6.3.20)

These mahājanas. This is our argument. And for common-sense argument, the Himalaya is very, very high. Very, very broad. You have never crossed and you have met with so many accidents. They avoid that portion, flying plane. And I have seen how high has it gone, then it will be in the clouds. Still they say twenty-eight thousand. Huh? Twenty-eight thousand?

Room Conversation with Vrindavan De -- July 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You have so many places that you cannot visit them all in a year.

Prabhupāda: In everywhere. I have got now 120 places, palaces.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And each place with fifty to one hundred servants.

Prabhupāda: Yes... So happiness, unless Kṛṣṇa gives, there is no question of happiness. Our business should be that we may not be uncomfortably living which will disturb our progress of Kṛṣṇa consciousness—that much. Other things? Depend on Kṛṣṇa. If He wants to make you Indra, you become Indra. There is no happiness even by becoming Indra. You... We read from books. Indra is how much disturbed, always fighting, devāsura. He has to fight. The same thing as here. Only difference is the standard of living in the heaven and the duration of life are greater. But if you have to struggle for existence, then what is the use of this duration of life, greater? Simply struggling, where is happiness? So in different planets, in different species of life... I see at night these small bugs. They have got the same happiness. The husband and wife or the male and female together, jumping and having sex, and everything in a different body. And same thing is going on in higher planetary system. There is no other business. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam: eating, sleeping, sex, and defense. But breath must be there. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). So one who is intelligent: "So here is unhappiness. Why I'll have to die?" And that can be solved only by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no other.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No more death for a devotee.

Prabhupāda: No. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9). If you don't attain Kṛṣṇa in this life, then again you go back to the process of birth and death. That's all. And in that process of birth-death, sometimes you become Indra and sometimes you become that small bug, that's all, according to your karma. So our struggle should be how to stop this birth and death, punar-janma-jayāya, to conquer over rebirth. That is real life. Again dying, again entering in the mother's womb, lie down packed up for ten months and then again come out, again another chapter begins—is that life? These rascals, they do not understand.

Room Conversation with Vrindavan De -- July 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He cannot express what is his inconvenience, and he's feeling one inconvenience, and the mother is trying to make him happy in other way. He's crying more, more, more, more. Where is happiness? Within the womb there was unhappiness, packed-up. When he comes down there is unhappiness. Then go to school, take education, appear for examination—that is unhappiness. Then grow up, then engage in some earning money—that is unhappiness. Then maintain your children, and that is unhappiness. Where is happiness, rascals? Rascal. Both are suffering.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Without Kṛṣṇa, there is no question of happiness.

Prabhupāda: This is simply anarthas, unnecessary creating unhappiness. Unnecessary.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But with Kṛṣṇa, all those things you describe become happy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa makes adjustment. Therefore Kṛṣṇa comes and He is giving advice that "Do like this. You'll be happy in this life and next."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually we work all day long—no salary, no vacation—and we're...

Prabhupāda: Still, they are happy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...feeling ecstasy.

Prabhupāda: Every letter I receive from my disciple, how happy they are, it is explained.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Every letter it's the same.

Prabhupāda: Cakhu-dān dilo jei, janme janme...

Room Conversation with Vrindavan De -- July 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Bandoṅ mui sāvadhāna. So fortunately we got right guru. He has given us the way how to live, and that is happiness. Munayaḥ sādhu pṛṣṭo 'ham... (SB 1.2.5). What is that verse I referred?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Today? Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2).

Prabhupāda: No, no. Munayaḥ sādhu pṛṣṭo 'haṁ bhavadbhir loka-maṅgalam, kṛṣṇa-sampraśno yenātmā suprasīdati (SB 1.2.5). Happiness is there. Unless you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, there is no question of... This is a false happiness, that "If I get money, I'll be happy." That is false. So many men, they have got money. We see practically. The whole European civilization, American civilization, is based on this fundamental idea that "Let us have money and we shall be happy." And nobody is happy. Nobody is happy, a single man. Very big, big buildings, very nice car, very nice road, but there is no question of happiness. Always restlessness. Is it not? They are practically proved. And becoming implicated, karma-bandha, loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9), one after another, one after another. Because he is not independent, he is under karma-bandhana. If you touch fire, it must burn you. You cannot avoid it. That is not possible. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sar... (BG 3.27), ahaṅkāra-vimūḍha. Are you independent? Suppose if you touch fire, are you independent that your finger will not burn? It must burn. So you'll search after so much so-called happiness—they're simply burning their finger, that's all. Karma-bandhanaḥ. Yajñārthe karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). So I'm insisting you about this distribution of the book. That is a service. If you can do some pushing on these books some way or other, you get material profit; at the same time, it is service.

Room Conversation with Vrindavan De -- July 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No. That is not my proposal. Why shall I engage you in business, karma-bandhana? That is not. If you can give little service, that is benefit. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. They are doing without any personal profit. You are gṛhastha. You can take some profit. That's all. But it is service. Anyone who will give some service to Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, he'll make progress. Therefore I'm trying to engage everyone in this movement some way or other. A little help, svalpam api. It is such a nice thing. With that spirit you do and live comfortably. There is no question of unnecessarily taking a life of poverty-stricken. There is no necessity. But there is no necessity of luxurious life. And luxurious will already come for devotees. That I have already example. Who can live more luxuriously than ourself? Where is that? It is practical. All over the world we are living like princes. Princes even cannot live like that. All our devotees, and what to speak of myself? Six crores of rupees one house, who can possess? How many men there are in the world who has got many houses, each six crores of rupees? Hm? Bolo.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Another letter just came today about the property they want to purchase in Washington. Ambarīṣa wants to purchase?

Prabhupāda: Now this Ambarīṣa, Alfred Ford, he is prepared that "Here is two hundred seventy crores of rupees for you. You take it whenever you like." Two hundred seventy crores. He has got his property. He has offered, "You take it immediately, and I'll give you." So you are engaging that money to construct a huge building in Washington for showing this planetary system. What shall I do with the money, two hundred seventy crores? (chuckles) Three hundred million? No?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: About thirty million. But he has other, plus other... That he has, money in the bank.

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So both consulting, you can see.

Yaśomatīnandana: Oh, yes, I can sell. I think this will be very successful.

Prabhupāda: So far the printing is concerned, there is no question. First class. Very nice.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, this is costing the BBT only...

Prabhupāda: Whatever it costs, I don't mind. You make some profit. That's all.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, and actually, all these books that I'm now printing in Hindi, I'm all printing these from the profit of this export order. Even though I have...

Prabhupāda: So you have sent the export books?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I shipped 26,000 books this month. That's why I got delayed. We shipped 21,000 books to Australia and 11,000 to England.

Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā is...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They've all gone. Plus, we shipped a big order to Africa, to Fiji...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Africa said they never got theirs.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They got it, and I have a bill of lading. That was a completely bogus letter. I have all the evidence with me. Yes, I've got a bill of lading to show you. Fiji, Mauritius, they've all gone. Plus, I also wrote up a small catalog. This is a very cheap catalog, not like the American. A lot of people write to BBT for brochure or catalog. So this is costing us only about twenty-five paisa but advertises all your books.

Room Conversation With Svarupa Damodara -- October 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Abhirāma: "And you bring those sacred texts which are studied by the holy men in India. These are the only two things I want." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...some way or other it has become successful.

Bhāgavata: There is no question of thinking, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It is a fact. It is reality that you have become successful, because you have converted even now the scientists. Even the scientists are becoming encouraged to take up Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and their minds are being changed. It is history, and we are seeing it right before our eyes. That is another one of your great contributions in your spiritual conquests, that you have converted the scientists. As Caitanya has conquered the Māyāvādīs, you have conquered the scientists. That's why we are very much eager that you shall remain with us more and more, to carry on these conquests, that we can somehow or other in some small way just help you. But your presence is definitely required. Actually all the devotees are just living to see you from time to time, so that they can get your darśana.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's a fact that we live only by Śrīla Prabhupāda's mercy. (break)

Abhirāma: Actually, Śrīla Prabhupāda, even though you're simply lying in bed, whatever instructions you give, those are being broadcast all over the world. Simply from this bed you can preach all over the world. You have established such expert system for preaching, your BBT... You have so many disciples. So now, even lying in bed in Vṛndāvana, your preaching is going throughout the world. In so many languages even. Whatever you are speaking here, the GBC's and older devotees, they're taking back to so many different countries and translating into so many languages-Spanish, French, German, Italian. The devotees all over the world are just waiting to hear every word that you speak.

Room Conversation -- October 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Now stock books immediately.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here is Jayapatākā Swami.

Prabhupāda: You print. They will pay you. Jayapatākā?

Jayapatākā: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: There is no question of becoming miserly. You print as many books as you like. All money will be paid if you have no money. Why? If you are selling books, you must have money also.

Jayapatākā: We have a program to print. We're printing right now. It's in the press at the present time. The Bhakti-kathā, Jñāna-kathā, Bhagavānera-kathā and then hardback Vairāgya-vidyā. And also three issues of Bhāgavata-darśana. We're trying to, within that money also, print the first three chapters of Bhagavad-gītā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We gave him a loan of forty-five thousand rupees, and then another twenty-five is coming. But that's all...

Prabhupāda: So you'll get money. Print.

Jayapatākā: One of our parties has gone to Bihar, and they sold about twelve thousand books and they ran out. They just now ran out of books, so they went to Bombay to get Hindi books, but there was no stock. So they came here to... Spent four hundred rupees going there, they found no books. Then they came here to Delhi, and they got two thousand books from Vṛndāvana here, what stock they had.

Prabhupāda: So why stock lacking? Why this mismanagement? There is no question of shortage of stock. I give you open order. Print more than necessity. If you do not print, what shall I do?

Room Conversation About 10th Canto -- October 16, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That's... Yes. Avirāma, "always working."

Pradyumna: Śrīla Prabhupāda, would you like to do the next verse?

Prabhupāda: If you like. Otherwise, make this verse correctly. Then take up the next.

Pradyumna: Yes. Everything was very nicely explained, Śrīla Prabhupāda, very...

Prabhupāda: Pick up the words? Set up in right place. It will be nice. In this way, slow but sure. Then, even in this condition, I can help you. There is no question of hurrying. Finish one verse, husband and wife, one day. And make it everything clear. Eh?

Pradyumna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Vīrarāghavācārya, Sanātana Gosvāmī, Viśvanātha Cakravartī. We are just trying to explain their ideas. We are teeny.

Pradyumna: I think your commentary on Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam will go down in history as one of the most..., one of the best commentaries. It will go down.

Prabhupāda: Let us try for that. (takes honey) Hm... Therefore I said "Upendra," (laughter) because it is solidified.

Abhirāma: I'll bring liquid. Most of that honey is solidified.

Prabhupāda: Why? He knows how to liquify.

Jayādvaita: You were saying that we should do one verse in one day, Śrīla Prabhupāda? And do it thoroughly?

Prabhupāda: Then I think you can do it very nicely. Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Devotee: This man.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, he is the same caliber. No, they are sending a different man. He is here only until the new man comes. So in... They realize at the head office that to them this ten lakhs is nothing, because they think that we can give much more. So there's no question of them thinking how to steal this money. They want more business. Ten lakhs is nothing. Another thing is that we have amongst our life members, some of them are former... Two of our members in Delhi were formerly the chairman of the Punjab Bank and the second man in charge of Punjab Bank. So our connections are so strong that no one could ever do anything. Tejiyas is very intimate with those members. When Girirāja went to Delhi to begin this, the first person he met was one of the former chairmen who happens to be our member. Girirāja took instruction. The man said, "You'll do like this, you do like...," you know. No one could... A man who's a former chairman is also still very powerful and respected. So no chairman or anyone will play any tricks. It's very good that this was done. Now they understand that they cannot deal with us with harassment tactics. Anyway, the real benefit will come when the new man comes here locally. Then we can start to deal properly. Until then it will always be difficult, because they are so...

Prabhupāda: Now who is...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This Trivedi. He is very bad also.

Devotee: He's worse than Gupta.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he's worse. I mean the whole group of them is worse. There's a whole clique of them. The real thing that was happening is that without the knowledge of the head office they were doing so many things here locally. When it became known to the head office, then the head office became very angry. I can now understand that they had a whole plan in mind. They had it very planned, what they were doing. The plan in my opinion was that they felt here is a sannyāsī, old sādhu, and he has many foreign disciples...

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So there is no...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: That is not standard.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, according to this man, your life should have been over at the age of seventy-five. In other words, when someone is a pure devotee, then he is not conditioned by the laws of birth and death. For people who are conditioned, there is standard. But in your case they cannot... They admit openly that there's no question of material standard. They can simply tell you... According to your birthday they can predict which days will be difficult for you because of the position of the planets. But so far as your ability to conquer over these difficulties and to live, that they completely accept is completely within Kṛṣṇa's hands, that you're not bounded by the material energy.

Prabhupāda: Karmāṇi nirdahati.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: What's that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājām (Bs. 5.54).

Prabhupāda: That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, do things very carefully. I am already dead. But still, I am giving you instruction as far as I can. And this is not life, a bundle of bones.

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Haṁsadūta: Whatever they do when they have to transport someone in emergency... They must have an arrangement.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, they do. They take the seats out and put your stretcher on. But we don't want that. There's no question of that.

Prabhupāda: It goes direct?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. Delhi-Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Then arrange for that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah? It's a lot easier. Plane travel is easier.

Prabhupāda: Ah, ah.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's no doubt about that. It's so much easier and so much quicker.

Haṁsadūta: You should ask Prabhupāda about the stretcher. It may be necessary.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He knows that it can be done. I've seen people laying out in stretchers. It's disgusting. It's disgusting. People come by and you're laying right on the ground.

Haṁsadūta: Oh, on the ground?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah. And they walk right by you, and their feet are right next to your head. It's most dishonorable and disrespectful. You feel... You feel every bit of being a patient.

Haṁsadūta: Don't they have private planes?

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I agree with your suggestion, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I think it's a good idea to stop the medicine for a day and to consult the kavirāja, and also to try to drink something else besides only fruit juice. I think the medicine should be stopped for a day. Haṁsadūta... I was talking with him. He said that he sometimes would do these fruit juice diets. In America this is something that's done a lot of times. He said when he would take this fruit juice diet, he said there's no question of passing stool. He said when you take fruit juice diets you don't pass stool because there's nothing... He says eventually you just pass urine. So the fact that Prabhupāda is passing stool is very unnatural, at least for taking fruit juice. He's not eating anything, so how can he pass stool four times? What is the stool coming from if he's not eating?

Prabhupāda: Whatever little blood is there.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Whatever little blood is there.

Bhavānanda: I think it's a mistake, Śrīla Prabhupāda, to take this strong medicine without having the kavirāja actually come and diagnose himself and...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Śatadhanya: Actually the kavirāja said to me that he never prescribes medicine without first seeing the patient.

Prabhupāda: So bring him. And stop medicine.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They all say that your heart is very strong, therefore what is the question of dying? They all say that point. Their whole contention is on the heart, that because the heart is strong, they say there's no question of dying. And actually that agrees with the astrologers. None of the astrologers say you will die now. They all say it's a difficult time but they never say that you will die now.

Prabhupāda: Hm, hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They all say that you'll overcome this.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And your disciples all say that you will overcome. Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Heart is strong then where is the question of tuberculosis? (laughs) Wrong present (?).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Somebody said tuberculosis.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, that was that allopathic Dr. Gopal.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1977, Vrndavana:

Adri-dharaṇa: He was just guessing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was guessing but he gave the recommendation for a strong anti-tubercular medicine.

Prabhupāda: No, no, therefore I am not going to.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, these allopathic doctors have been totally a failure for you. There's no question of going back to them in any case.

Prabhupāda: He has already concluded something and he wants to prove it by x-ray and this and that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And strong medicine he prescribed.

Prabhupāda: Hm. (indistinct)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He would have created havoc with his testing.

Prabhupāda: I am not going to die, I will remain in his treatment, this kavirāja. The doctors, they create a situation and they have preconceived.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, they make you, if you don't have the disease, then they'll make sure you get it, simply to be right.

Prabhupāda: So I shall remain in his treatment. Good (indistinct), that's all. Take his chart and strictly follow. I'll not object, I will follow. Is that all right?

Prabhupada Vigil -- November 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Because in this morning I was fainting. So there was no strength. How long I (sic:) circumbulate?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: About a half hour.

Prabhupāda: Even half hour, if I am fainting... So if I die without medicine, without kavirāja, what is the harm? Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: According to the kavirāja, his treatment is that first of all he has to take care of your liver and kidneys before giving you strength. He said there's no question of you getting any strength until your liver and kidneys are healed.

Prabhupāda: So take the medicine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. So the first part of his cure is to help your liver and kidneys. Then, when they are functioning properly, you'll be able to eat and other things which will automatically give strength. Medicine will not give strength, but medicine can cure the organs which are now not working properly.

Prabhupāda: No, you take medicine from him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. That was his proposal. His proposal was that you take medicine, and then after ten or fifteen days, you may have enough strength... And he was going to come back and then take you to Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: So do that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The only reason that we were hesitant was because if something along the way happens, had he been here, he could have adjusted the medicine to suit the particular needs. Now, not being here, we'll have to depend upon this assistant in case something changes. If nothing changes, then there's no harm. But if something should suddenly alter...

Prabhupada Vigil -- November 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, no. As I am doing, that much. Medicine, no medicine...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, actually we're also wanting you to do parikrama, but we would..., one day we are hoping to see you walking the parikrama.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. For the time being, if by parikrama, fainting, dying, that is a glorious. That I want. Will it be great burden?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no. That's not the question, of burden. The only thing is that we want you to get better. There's no question of burden.

Prabhupāda: No, no, better...

Jayādvaita: Burden of love.

Prabhupāda: Better... If suppose I am sure to die, then where is better?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, but we don't suppose that. We're not supposing that you're sure to die.

Bhavānanda: We don't feel that at all.

Brahmānanda: I don't think there's any question that you're going to die, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: In the morning this symptom...

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He doesn't expect this consciousness in this condition. Therefore he is astonished. Actually, physically—finished, everything. So wherefrom the voice coming and wherefrom intelligence coming? That he is astonished. (Bengali) (break) So fix up this program, kīrtana and whatever little I want to eat, that's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And you'll continue to take the kavirāja's medicines?

Prabhupāda: That I'll go on. What is that? If there is any improvement, welcome. Otherwise there is no question of moving me.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. (break) There has to be some actual improvement before you should move. Otherwise you are already here in Vṛndāvana, so why move?

Prabhupāda: That is my point.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But if actually you can show signs of improving and recovering, then there is reason to move for health.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Traveling now should only be undertaken for health purposes.

Prabhupāda: That is welcome. But at the present moment, I don't see any such... (Bengali)

Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: Why Tamāla Kṛṣṇa gone?

Room Conversation -- November 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Kavirāja assistant: (Hindi)

Bhakti-caru: He's asking whether, while passing stool, there's a feeling that stomach has been cleared, kind of a constipated feeling, in spite of... Śrīla Prabhupāda said that it was happening like that before, but last few times it was liquidish. It was watery stool, so there is no question of...

Kavirāja assistant: (Hindi)

Bhakti-caru: (Hindi with kavirāja assistant and Prabhupāda)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhakti-caru, what's going on?

Bhakti-caru: He was wondering about one medicine that has some roots and herbs mixed together and boil it for a long time and just give the extract of that. He was wondering whether that medicine, how I have that medicine... There are different items in it. That vaidyajī already made, mixed it together. So he was wondering about that medicine, how it is, how do I keep it.

Kavirāja assistant: (Hindi)

Bhakti-caru: (Hindi) So he told me yesterday also that there should be continuous prayers.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Room Conversation -- November 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Get on...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Does that sound right, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: There is no alternative.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. There's no alternative. There's no question of going to any more kavirājas. This is the last one. He's the best we've found, and if his medicine doesn't work, then let us simply depend on Kṛṣṇa.

Bhavānanda: That was fifty and clear, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Fifty and clear.

Prabhupāda: Bhavānanda, you are not feeling well?

Bhavānanda: No, now I'm feeling better, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're all praying to take some disease from you. We're all praying to take over your disease onto us.

Prabhupāda: That is not desirable.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not desirable?

Prabhupāda: (laughs) If you all become diseased.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, but you single-handedly can spread this movement better than all of us together.

Prabhupāda: That is the problem. You are all become stationed to me.(?) Who will work?

Room Conversation -- November 7, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: It is warm now. Hm. (break) What Shastriji said?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. I had a nice talk with Shastriji, very detailed talk. He explained that the main... He said we have brought you to him at the very last possible moment. He said had we come six months earlier, so much easier it would have been. He said this time that we have called him just now was just timely that he came back again. He said that the main problem is the kidney. He said the kidney is working, otherwise you could not pass urine. And the medicine which he has given over the past week has had an effect, because the urine is increased. He explains that the whole body, there's very little blood due to not having eaten for so many months, and there's great weakness because of this. He says the muscles are all more or less gone; therefore you have no strength, because the blood is not there. And because you're so weak, he can't give strong medicine, because it will be too strong for you. He has to give it very, very carefully and slowly, in small doses. He says the kidney, urine goes downwards, and blood goes upwards. So the urine is passing. Now he's going to give... He started today already giving medicine which will help to form blood. And automatically... He says that... I asked him, "How will we know if it is working? Will Prabhupāda feel stronger?" He said, "Not immediately. I can't give it very much dose." He said, "I'll be able to tell it from the pulse." I guess that's the kavirāja's ability, that he can tell from the pulse. He said, "I'll be able to tell from the pulse that the medicine for creating more blood is being taken up by the body." Then we asked him... He said that it is better you don't sit up 'cause it puts strain on the heart. He said it's better you don't sit up for the next four days or so. Better that you lay down all the time. And that for feeding you, that we can feed you while you're laying down. He said it's not necessary that you take anything solid unless you want it. Liquids are good, he said, for now. Because the whole point is that he has to treat you very, very slowly. There's no question of rushing anything, because you're too weak. He said, if you want solids, that things should not be cooked in ghee. There should be no dahi. He gave some restrictions—not so many, but some. He said just like mālapuyā would not be good because it's cooked with ghee. I asked him frankly what he thought was your chances. He said that he felt your chances were quite good. He said the whole point is that... He said of course it depends on Kṛṣṇa. He said, "But the chances are very good. But it will be slow." I said, "But even if Prabhupāda recovers, what does that mean, 'recover'?" He said, "Recover means to be fit." I said, "What about like walking?" He said, "Fit means walking, talking, eating, everything." He said, "If this medicine works, then he should live for at least ten more years." He said that the treatment will take at least three or four months. It's a very slow treatment. He felt fairly confident. He feels there's a very good... He says that he treated one patient who had twenty ulcers, and every single physician said that the man had to die within a week to two weeks. And he made this man take 34 kilos of buttermilk per day, and the man survived. He got rid of all the ulcers and survived. He said he takes your case as very, very serious, though. It's most..., at the final point. I said, "Well, Prabhupāda says that he's dead. Now he says he even feels practically dead." The kavirāja said, "He's not dead. I have seen worse cases even than this, and they could survive. But I have to work very, very carefully. And Prabhupāda should keep good spirits," he said.

Prabhupāda: Let us see.

Page Title:There is no question (Conversations 1977)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, RupaManjari
Created:01 of Feb, 2013
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=127, Let=0
No. of Quotes:127