Theory (Conv. 1976)

Expressions researched:
"theories" |"theorists" |"theory" |"theory's"

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query: theories or theorists or theory's or theory not "darwin's theory" not "theory of darwin" not "Darwinian theory"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: (break) So if you are not independent, what is the value of your thinking independently?

Keśavalāl Trivedi: Absolutely none. None.

Prabhupāda: But everyone is thinking independently.

Keśavalāl Trivedi: Yes. That is māyā. That is the māyā, that which is not.

Prabhupāda: They are making plans, theories, "ism." What is the value of this?

Keśavalāl Trivedi: Absolutely none.

Prabhupāda: Therefore everything is becoming failure. So preach this truth to the world, that "You are all rascals. Why you are thinking independently?" Huh? "Why I am rascal?" "Because you are thinking independently. That is the proof that you are a rascal." Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Īśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhaḥ. And they are thinking independently.

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: (break) This is basis of Gītā. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā (BG 4.34). Learn from the real person, tattva-darśinaḥ, who has seen, who has actual experience of the truth. Learn from him. The Gītā never recommends that you imagine and make your theories. Never said. That is the Vedic culture. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsur śreya uttamam (SB 11.3.21). This is the way. Take lesson from Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa's representative. Then you will get experience. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. What is the use of imagining?

Harikeśa: I mean, after all, all this talk about God was simply there because of man's desire to explain the unknown. He saw a thunderbolt and...

Prabhupāda: It is unknown to the rascal man. It is known to the sober man. (laughter) He should become sober instead of becoming a rascal. That is required. Vidyā-vinaya-sampanne (BG 5.18). Ācāryavān puruṣo veda: "He knows, who has accepted the ācārya." This is Theosophical Society, I think. Huh? That trademark. Or Rāmakrishna Mission.

Morning Walk -- February 5, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: ...kinds of rascals.

Hṛdayānanda: One theory is that there has always..., the material nature has always existed. It was never created, and it will never be annihilated, and there is no other cause. It's simply an eternal fact.

Prabhupāda: But how always existed? Nothing here ever exists... This house was never existed. It's created.

Hṛdayānanda: But the elements existed.

Prabhupāda: Elements exist, that's all right, but the format, how it is created?

Hṛdayānanda: They say it's not created. It's an eternal, unexplainable fact.

Prabhupāda: Ha ha. That he is a foolish. That is rascal. Immediately rascal is captured.

Morning Walk -- February 5, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That is another rascaldom. "I am rascal, and future I am going to be very intelligent." Talk of presence. You are, at the present moment, you are rascal. That's all. Don't talk. Rascal cannot talk.

Hṛdayānanda: Another theory which is taught...

Prabhupāda: So this theory is rascaldom. Then another theory...?

Hṛdayānanda: Is that actually God created everything, but after creation God is no lon...

Prabhupāda: No, then... No, that's all right, "God created everything." That means acceptance of God. Then we come to the science of God, what is God.

Hṛdayānanda: Well, God created, but now God is...

Prabhupāda: Don't imagine. I am asking what is the current theory.

Hṛdayānanda: Yes, that God is... God now is in a dormant condition.

Harikeśa: God is dead.

Morning Walk -- February 5, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No, doesn't need the man... He is needed for another reaction. That will not take automatically.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So another theory is why you have to say that there is a cause? It was always there. There was no cause. It was always there...

Prabhupāda: No, it is caused. Why do you say "God created"?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we say there is no God, and the creation was always there. There's no question of it not being there.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There was always there. There was always...

Harikeśa: It's eternal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's eternal. There's no question of any creator being required. It is there.

Prabhupāda: No. Then why do you say, "God created and He became...?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We don't say.

Prabhupāda: He said.

Morning Walk -- February 5, 1976, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Why is because it developed?

Prabhupāda: Yes. All rascals, simply rascals.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, it's not very easy for us to give good argument with these bogus...

Harikeśa: We can't even keep up with their theories.

Hṛdayānanda: The main argument among the philosophers, the atheistic philosophers, is that "God could not exist because if God existed, if God were good, then why would we be suffering? God would stop our suffering."

Prabhupāda: Because you are criminal.

Morning Walk -- February 6, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: ...a theory, a species.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Missing link species. And they have... They have models of this missing link.

Prabhupāda: They know it; still "missing."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Although it's missing...

Prabhupāda: "Missing" means they know only, "Oh, he knows."

Hṛdayānanda: When I was preaching in California, one very famous anthropologist came to speak there, and he gave a new theory about the origin of the species. So he said... Before the audience he said that "Actually we have very little evidence of this theory."

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Hṛdayānanda: He said that "We have very little evidence for this theory," but he said that "All of you should not be disturbed because our previous theory, we had no evidence whatsoever. (laughter) So this is an improvement."

Prabhupāda: He admitted. "Previous theory, that was nonsense," and still the nonsense going on.

Morning Walk -- February 6, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jagadīśa: The earth and the sun are always the same distance apart?

Prabhupāda: Same distance is to be supposed according to your theory, because sun is fixed.

Jagadīśa: According to our theory.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The same distance. But you calculate that how quickly it comes. You calculate the distance.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, how can the earth move so quickly?

Jagadīśa: The earth is just spinning around.

Morning Walk -- February 10, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Everything is theory. No practical. (break) ...ten direction. Eight direction, corner, and northeast, east-west, and up and down. So everywhere He is present. So Kṛṣṇa has got ten hands. So my father used to say, "When Kṛṣṇa takes your money or possession in ten hands, how you can protect it with two hands? And when He give you in ten hands, how much you can take in two hands?" (laughs) So in my case it has become practical. Everything He has taken in ten hands, and now He is giving in ten hands. (laughter) I am practically experiencing. My Guru Mahārāja ordered me, "You do this." I was trying to save my business, my family, with two hands, and Kṛṣṇa took it in ten hands. And now, after making me beggar, He is giving me, ten hands: "You take as much as you like." Now I am thinking of my father's instruction. (break) ...ambition was that I become a great de... bhāgavata. That was his... He used to invite so many saintly persons, and he would pray, "Please bless my son"—I was very pet son—"that he may become a devotee of Rādhārāṇī. Rādhārāṇī may bless him." That was his only prayer.

Morning Walk -- February 10, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: He did not discriminate that this is bad. He smokes, and he had some regard for him. "All right, take gāñjā." (laughter)

Hṛdayānanda: So Kṛṣṇa is also like that if we...

Prabhupāda: He was offering him something, "Whatever he likes." That was his theory.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Friendly.

Prabhupāda: Yes. "It doesn't matter." He did not know the gāñjā smoking was bad for sādhu. That is impression in India. We criticize, but in India, in every sādhu samāj they smoke gāñjā.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Still?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Not high class. These bogus swamis and yogis. They...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, that Mr. Das, the lawyer who came here?

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Morning Walk -- February 29, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: This is the real point. All other points besides this, they are Rāvaṇa's point. (Break) ...adjust things, taking Sītā from the clutches of one Rāvaṇa to the another Rāvaṇa. The material... At the present moment... Just like the Communist. They are trying to take away money from the capitalists. So this process is taking Sītā from clutches of Rāvaṇa, and it goes to another Rāvaṇa. Because both of them are Rāvaṇa, so there is no meaning to it. There will be no benefit. It has failed already. The Communist movement, it is simply now Lordism (?). Just like there are many rogues and dacoits. They plunder money and sometimes give to the poor. So this is another edition of the same thing, one Rāvaṇa to another Rāvaṇa. Just like Ramakrishna Mission-daridra-nārāyaṇa-theory only, and that is also not perfect. It cannot be perfect. Communist theory is to take the money from the capitalists and distribute it to the poor, to the mass people.

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Atomic theory...

Acyutānanda: The atomic theory...

Dayānanda: What is the atomic theory?

Hṛdayānanda: Atomic... That everything is constituted of different atoms, and the ultimate truth is the atomic particle, and by different combinations of these particles, different material manifestations are produced, and there's no other cause except this endless combining of atomic particles.

Prabhupāda: Wherefrom the atom comes?

Hṛdayānanda: The atom is the eternal fact. It is inconceivable or it's unexplainable where it has come from.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the use of your explaining? Then you prove yourself you are a rascal. Inexplicable? Why you are trying to explain?

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: So everything is fact. But the real knowledge is to find out the source of the fact. That is real knowledge. Just like if we ask any gentleman—at least in India—for your identification, your father's name is required, your name of the village is required. If you go to the court, then such and such; father's name, such and such; village, this; religion, this; like this.... So father.... Why father's name? "What is the source of your existence? Wherefrom you are coming?" "I am coming from this family." So that is knowledge. Atom.... Atomic theory is there in Vedic conception, paramāṇuvāda. Kaṇada, the great sage, Kaṇada, he gave this theory, Kaṇada. Paramāṇuvāda. Paramāṇuvād. Paramāṇuvāda is accepted in Vedic philosophy also. But we know what is this paramāṇu also. Just like the sunshine. What is the sunshine? A combination of shining atoms. But we can see it is coming from the sun, incessantly coming. We can see. We can, immediately say, "This is.... The source is the sun." Similarly, the paramanu, the atoms, they are incessantly coming out. But wherefrom it is coming?

Morning Walk -- March 13, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: What he says?

Satsvarūpa: "Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the Indian classic par excellence on bhakti-yoga, attributed to Vyāsa, is one of the most important and influential religio-philosophical works within the Vedic tradition. Thanks to the devoted and scholarly endeavors of Śrī A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, the entire work of twelve cantos will be available in a superb English edition for the benefit of the English-reading peoples. In his impeccable style the author presents each verse in original Sanskrit, followed by roman transliteration, English equivalents, translation, and elaborate commentary. The lucid and cogent exegesis brings into relief the theory and practice of Bhāgavata philosophy in relation to contemporary man and his problems of life. I have read the first volume containing First Canto, Part One, Chapter 1-7, with pleasure and profit. A brief account of the life of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu included in this volume illustrates the central theme of the entire text, the loving service of God. A glossary and index to Sanskrit verses and a general index have been added for the convenience of scholars. This monumental work is immensely valuable alike to historians of religion, linguistic scholars, cultural anthropologists, pious devotees, as well as to the general reader interested in spiritual matters. I recommend it highly to every student of Indian philosophy, culture, and religion."

Devotee (1): Then he ordered two standing orders for the library, and they took it. (break)

Prabhupāda: Oh, that Australian...? (break)

Morning Walk -- March 14, 1976, Mayapur:

Gurukṛpā: It's not accident.

Prabhupāda: No, but they say. They have got a big theory, accident theory.

Madhudviṣa: They say that in due course this will evolve, that just as this flower, this tree is giving this flower, this rose tree, so after generations, generations of...

Prabhupāda: And we have to believe these rascals, "in future." That is the same post-dated check, that "You take this ten thousand dollars. It will be paid three hundred years after." So I will have to accept that. I am not such a fool.

Madhudviṣa: They will say, "You have to look back into history, and you'll see how history will repeat itself in the future."

Prabhupāda: What is that history? The rose flower gave birth to lotus flower? Where is that history?

Madhudviṣa: This is what they say, that...

Prabhupāda: That, that.... Therefore they are rascals.

Morning Walk -- March 14, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: That, that.... Therefore they are rascals.

Madhudviṣa: ...at one time that all the vegetation was...

Prabhupāda: Therefore they are rascals. Therefore they are rascals. Now they say, the Darwin rascal says, that from monkey man came. Why the monkeys now do not give men? That is rascaldom, false theory.

Gurukṛpā: They say they can make crossbreed.

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. You are the cause of this crossbreeding. It is not accident. You are making arrangement; therefore it is.... There is cause. It is not accident. There is no accident. (break) ...man promises that "You just surrender to me; I will take care of you, everything," so whether I shall do it or not?

Acyutānanda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1976, Mayapura:

Siddha-svarūpa: A way of preaching is that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness and Vedic communism is the only thing in India that would ultimately defeat the Russian-style communism. Then they would very much appreciate it. If they saw that India would go communist, then they'd rather have it Vedic communist than Russian communist. Their theory is that everybody must go communist for people to be, feel satisfied. (break)

Madhudviṣa: That's their feeling.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: A lot of people come every day.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (Bengali) (break) ...be print in a booklet, that will help us.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Immediately.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Whatever... The system is done by some leaders. Anything... Just like our, this system we have introduced. I am the leader. Similarly, a leader is changed for betterment of the situation. So if the communists and those who have brain, if they find a better leader for better situation, why they'll not? And they want for revolution also. They are in favor of revolution. Their theory is that periodically there must be revolution. That is their theory. I talked with Professor Kotovsky. So why they will not accept another revolution for further advancement?

Madhudviṣa: One of the main problems I can see is to divorce our movement from religious concept because...

Prabhupāda: It is not the question of religious concept. This is nonsense. You have to... Just like when Kṛṣṇa says, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13)—that is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā—so does it mean a religion? Then why these nonsense take it as religion? It is a fact. How you can neglect the fact? Eh? Kaumāraṁ yauvanam jara. A baby becoming a boy, boy becoming a young man, is it religion? Either Hindu or Muslim or Christian or Buddha, everyone is becoming like that. Where is religion? Why do they take it as religion?

Satsvarūpa: It's religion because it's not empirical fact.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That means for advancement of knowledge you have to change. They accept this theory, revolution. So if you get better situation, why you'll not change?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They accept a better theory when it is presented.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is presented. This is the beginning, that "Your knowledge is imperfect. You are believing your eyes, but that is not perfect knowledge. You have to see with knowledge." Paśyati jñāna... Paśyanti jñāna-cakṣuṣā. Śāstra-cakṣuṣāt. That is seeing, not seeing like a child. A child is seeing, a motor car is running, a airplane is running. He thinks a wonderful machine, but it is not the machine. It is the pilot. It is the driver. A child cannot see it. The father knows that it is not the machine. The machine may be however perfectly made; it cannot run. There must be a perfect pilot also. Just like we get on aeroplane. There are hundreds of men. If there is any trouble, then the pilot can stop it, not the hundreds of men.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Then why you change? Why you change?

Devotee: They don't change. They follow Mao.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They... They say there is necessity of revolution. The Communist theory they accept, that periodically there is need of revolution.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: But it all culminates.

Madhudviṣa: That's not to change. That's not to change.

Prabhupāda: You have change, change of the system.

Madhudviṣa: No, that's not to change the system. That's to purify it.

Prabhupāda: That change of the leader...

Madhudviṣa: That's to purge the system.

Revatīnandana: Continuous purification.

Prabhupāda: That's means... Purge out means it is not perfect.

Morning Walk -- March 17, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: It was not chance. You are a rascal, and you were hit on the head.... (laughs) That is not chance. The cause is your rascalism. So you cannot find out anything by chance. Madhudviṣa Mahārāja, you can find out anything by chance? This is simply rascaldom, chance theory.

Pañca-draviḍa: What about...? What about gambling, Prabhupāda? Somebody wins; somebody loses. That's by chance.

Prabhupāda: That is not chance.

Madhudviṣa: They would say, "Everything is by chance." You say green, yellow flower with green leaf. So.... But through evolution there has been so many other combinations. Now we're just...

Prabhupāda: But then evolution is the cause. Then evolution is the cause. How you can say "chance"?

Madhudviṣa: No, it's just many, many different combinations. Now you are seeing the yellow and green...

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Morning Walk -- March 17, 1976, Mayapura:

Trivikrama: Just like he said. All the trees are growing up, not one going this way, not by chance one is...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Nothing by chance. It is a wrong theory.

Satsvarūpa: If you throw dice, they may come up in one...

Prabhupāda: Then dice becomes cause? Chance?

Satsvarūpa: Well, what causes it to be seven or eleven or another number?

Pañca-draviḍa: Chance.

Prabhupāda: Not chance. You do not know. Therefore you say.

Hṛdayānanda: Ah! Because they don't know, they say "chance."

Trivikrama: That's right, because I don't know, ignorant.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They want to cover their ignorance by this theory, "chance." They want to become very intelligent by chance. That is their.... That is not the fact. For intelligence you have to learn from a superior person. It cannot be done by chance. Who has become learned scholar by chance? There is none.

Morning Walk -- March 17, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This chance theory.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They say that "By chance, after some time..."

Prabhupāda: Because they have finished their science. They have researched and done so many years now, their scientific knowledge is liquidated. Now they are giving this chance theory, therefore, because they cannot explain anything. That's all. Their vidyā buddhi is finished. That is the problem now. For the scientists, it is a problem now. Now, so far their limited knowledge is concerned, they have done everything, discovered everything. Now there is no scope of working and discovering. That is the position of the scientists.

Pañca-draviḍa: So they should come to you.

Prabhupāda: Well, that is another thing. Rut this is their actual position. Now their position is how to bluff and get money, because talk is finished. Now bluffing stock is now finished. Now they have to give theories like this "chance" and make big, big words, jugglery.

Morning Walk -- March 18, 1976, Mayapura:

Gurudāsa: It says reflection in the Bhāgavata.

Prabhupāda: No, it is also a fiery place. But it is because it is far away from the sun, it is not so glowing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So it's not a question of reflection only.

Prabhupāda: The reflection theory is the modern theory.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Because sometimes in the books it's stated...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Sometimes I have said or taken this modern theory.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just so that people will understand an example. I see.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Another question is "How do the different seasons come about-winter, summer, spring?"

Prabhupāda: That is due to the movement of the sun.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The...?

Prabhupāda: Movement of the sun.

Morning Walk -- March 18, 1976, Mayapura:

Pañca-draviḍa: So, as it revolves around the sun...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That's another theory too.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There's two different theories.

Haṁsadūta: It's simultaneously going around the sun, and also, in itself, it is turning. And then it's sometimes tilting on a particular axis. It's simultaneously moving around the so-called central sun...

Prabhupāda: But for six months that, it tilts?

Haṁsadūta: And then it also spins, the globe spins, and then it also...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Haṁsadūta: It has different tilts. It takes different degrees.

Morning Walk -- March 18, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: If it is like a tree, then these things can be as dvīpa, island.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow. You know...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The scientists are getting smashed to bits by your statements, Śrīla Prabhupāda. This destroys their whole theory. Orbs, round spheres. I think that this Māyāpur building, we must build a big planetarium in it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That, that I am going to do, Vedic planetarium.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, boy. You're going to bring a lot of.... A lot of scientists will come here just to dispute this.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Wonderful attraction.

Prabhupāda: World people will come to see the way the planetary systems...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We should advertise it very widely that this is the actual, factual explanation of the universe.

Prabhupāda: This will be automatically advertised. As soon as the temple is finished, people will come like anything.

Morning Walk -- March 18, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: How rascal they are.

Pañca-draviḍa: There are a few flaws in the theory.

Prabhupāda: The best class of men, the Aryans, and they were worshiping a tribal chief! And what was Arjuna? He was also a tribal chief? Arjuna said that "I become Your disciple." So what was he, that he is submitting to a tribal chief? Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ tvāṁ prapannam (BG 2.7). And He's teaching Bhagavad-gītā?

Lokanātha: Which is being read after five thousand years.

Prabhupāda: And still, they cannot assimilate it, so much, so-called civilized men, they cannot understand even the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), that there is transmigration of the soul, these rascals. And who is tribal chief?

Haṁsadūta: Just to master the language takes twelve years.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Devotee (1): Kāmāturaṁ harṣa-śoka-bhayaiṣaṇārtam.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone is kāmāturam. Prahlāda Mahārāja, millions of years ago, a five-years-old boy, he's stating what is the position of the materialistic person. This is Bhāgavata. (break) ...education system should be stopped, rascal, producing rascals and hippies in the university. What is the use of this education? Atheists, putting simply theories, and that is also nonsense, and it is going on in the name of education. (break)...Paṇḍita says.... Who is paṇḍita? Recite.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu...

Prabhupāda: Eh? Eh.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Para-dāreṣu, para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat. The.... Is.... It is moral instruction, what to speak of high education. Means it, preliminary moral education.

Morning Walk -- March 19, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Well, secul.... Whatever you name it, you're all set of rascals. That's all. (laughter) You can change the name in different way, but on the whole, you are all set of rascals. This is the whole world's beauty.

Pañca-draviḍa: This modern theory, Prabhupāda, is that if a person wants to.... If he can maintain more than one wife nicely and wants to keep more than one wife, they won't allow. But if he can keep many young girls and spoil every one of them, that is...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Pañca-draviḍa: .... that is praiseworthy.

Prabhupāda: And advertise publicly: "Topless, bottomless women are available here. Come here. School is open at ten o'clock at night. It goes on up to four." I have seen it. This is civilization, nightclub and topless, bottomless shop.

Morning Walk -- March 21, 1976, Mayapura:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That's not the modern theory.

Devotees: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: Is that all right? Explanation?

Devotee (1): Sounds all right.

Haṁsadūta: That's what they say.

Prabhupāda: "They say." What you say?

Haṁsadūta: We don't know anything. After meeting you, we wonder if we know anything, because we thought the moon was going around the earth.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: What shadow is that? The moon casts its own shadow.

Haṁsadūta: That's what they say.

Prabhupāda: They, their explanation is...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Half the moon is in darkness.

Morning Walk -- March 26, 1976, Delhi:

Cyavana: Prabhupāda, in the early fifties the scientists performed an experiment which substantiates their theory that life comes from matter, and they actually created a one-celled being. They made one cell which had life in it. It moved like an amoeba.

Prabhupāda: Then why do they not do now? What is the wrong now?

Cyavana: Well, they've done it. They can do it by creating certain conditions.

Prabhupāda: But why do they not do?

Cyavana: They use amino acids and water and electricity.

Prabhupāda: Bluffing.

Cyavana: But this gave great strength to their theory that life can come from matter because they created a one-celled amoeba. They say they created it, that life actually came into it.

Prabhupāda: They said everything, but where is the proof?

Cyavana: Well, the scientists saw it.

Prabhupāda: Saw it? Now show us. They saw it at their home.

Morning Walk -- March 26, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Cyavana: No, that's as far as they got, but it really boosted their theory, at least so that they thought they would be able to create life.

Prabhupāda: All rascals.

Dayānanda: There's also a scientific argument against that, that there may have been the life conditions or the conditions conducive to life, so therefore life came, but not that that was produced by chemical combination. Just like they're actually opposing that argument, scientific school that opposes the idea that they actually produced the life itself.

Cyavana: Some of them said the life was already there in the water to begin with.

Prabhupāda: In the water, life there is; in the air, in.... That is another thing. But life is different from the water. That is our proposal. (break) They are attracted by these varieties of material things, and when time comes he's put into death. Everything is moved from his sight, aside, and he accepts a body of a dog. (break) To accept by compulsion a type of body according to his activities, that he does not.... Now, that big, big minister, Pandit Jawaharlal, he spent so much time and energy for creating this. Now, if after death he has become a dog, then where is the benefit? You cannot say that he has not become a dog. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). One has to accept another body, and what kind of body one has to accept, who will say? The.... His work, what he has done, that will take.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: They say that this is not incarnation, it is māyā. Just like the sky is covered in a pot, and as soon as the pot breaks, the sky mixes with the big sky. That's all. That is their theory.

Madhudviṣa: So therefore they say God is covered.

Prabhupāda: Not God. You are covered.

Pañcadraviḍa: But you are God, they say.

Prabhupāda: So you are God, but you are covered by this body. So as soon as the body is finished, you mix with. Just like you take one pot and you take water. The water is there, but if you break this pot, the water comes and mixes with.

Morning Walk -- April 15, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: (laughter) And we are indirectly vegetarians if we eat goats.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Even if we vegetarian are, then how you become big? The goats are vegetarian. Huh? Apadāni catuṣ-padām. This vegetable is meant for the catuṣ-padām, for the animals, four-legged animals. If somebody says that "Why shall I take this vegetable? It is meant for the animals. I shall take the animal." That is a good argument. Yes. So to become vegetarian is not ahiṁsā at all. It is a bogus theory. To become a devotee and take Kṛṣṇa prasādam, that is perfect. Kṛṣṇa says, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). So automatically...

Dr. Patel: He does not say, "Give me a, I mean, a (Hindi)."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 15, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Cows are vegetarian. That's all right. There are many animals, vegetarian. So there is no perfection of life unless we come to the point of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Simply by becoming vegetarian, simply by becoming nonviolent, simply by... These are all theories only. It has no value.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The argument is sometimes put forward that not everyone will be able to embrace Kṛṣṇa consciousness fully. Therefore it may be better for them to accept some portion, like, for example, taking up vegetarianism or even doing haṭha-yoga, or something like this is better than nothing.

Prabhupāda: No, that is not very essential. Essential is how to think of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. He doesn't say that you become vegetarian.

Dr. Patel: That said, tad-arthaṁ karma kaunteya mukta-saṅgaḥ samācara: "You must do everything for Him, even eating."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 15, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, they do not know.

Dr. Patel: It is abstract materialism, sir.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Because the very theory of dialectical materialism is against the tenets of religious teachings of sanātana-dharma.

Prabhupāda: No, that...

Dr. Patel: The spirit is more important than material.

Prabhupāda: No, their teaching is to become some strong atheist, because religion has been exploited by the so-called religious leaders. That is the difficulty. So they have become atheist.

Morning Walk -- April 16, 1976, Bombay:

Abhirāma: Actually they did not believe his theory.

Dr. Patel: You are right. I mean, all intelligent men in past used to...

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) ...scientist. Tad viddhi praṇipātena (BG 4.34).

Dr. Patel: But he did not the paripraśnena sevayā. I do it.

Prabhupāda: No, he thinks not yet fit to make paripraśna.

Dr. Patel: I do it

Prabhupāda: That is. That is scientist. He thinks himself not fit to make any question. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena (BG 4.34). When the praṇipāta is sufficiently mature, then he can make paripraśna-accompanied by sevā. Otherwise paripraśna is a waste of time. According to our Vedic system, we should not make any question to any person whose answer I cannot accept toto. Then I shall. Otherwise no use of wasting time. Praṇipāta means that you are accepting that "Here I have come. His answer will be complete." No further question. But if there is little doubt, he can submissively make question. Just like Arjuna made question to Kṛṣṇa that "You say millions of years ago You spoke this science to..."

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...is real scientist. Those who change every year theory, I don't like that scientist. Do you like that scientist?

Dr. Patel: No.

Prabhupāda: Then who? Nobody, no gentleman likes that.

Dr. Patel: He's not a scientist, who changes himself.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You cannot change your position. That is science. Kṛṣṇa has said that mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). So nobody has become greater than Kṛṣṇa up till now. That is science. Can anyone challenge Kṛṣṇa? No. And He has said, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7). So that is scientist.

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then the same theory that "This side of stool is dry. It is good." (laughter) Yes.

Dr. Patel: Because it going to be manure, manure the food.

Prabhupāda: "And the other side is moist; therefore it is bad."

Dr. Patel: Yes, sir. That type of stool which goes and manures the crop, that is good, evidently.

Prabhupāda: No, no, after all, stool, this side or that side.... The whole conclusion is that unless one is surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, he remains in darkness.

Dr. Patel: That's right.

Prabhupāda: That is the point. Therefore we are trying to enlighten people to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation -- May 2, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: Nature.... But we also say, prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). So it is to be understood that it is being done under superior control. If nature is doing, so nature is superior control. He cannot explain. So if he does not know how nature is working, then what is the value of his theory? If he says that he cannot explain how nature is doing, that means he is not expert. He may be mistaken. So why his opinion or decision should be taken final? He does not know how nature is working. That is not perfect knowledge. Does he say like that, "Nature is working"?

Guru-kṛpā: Nature.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Then you are.... As soon as you say "making research," then you are not perfect. Don't say that you are scientist. You are student. Don't say that you are scientist. And you are declaring, "There is no authority, nothing." Why do you speak all this nonsense? Because you are not scientist. You are making research. That's all right. When you complete your research—you come to the conclusion—then call yourself as scientist. Why, as a student, neophyte, you are claiming as "scientist"? Why misleading people? You do not know anything, how things are going on, and you are claiming you are scientist. Our point is, "Don't do this, misleading propaganda. You are not scientist. We protest against this false propaganda. Why you are making.... You do not know anything. You cannot solve any problem, major problem, so why you are claiming scientist? Stop this as a gentleman." (break) And there is the soul within the body, and when the soul is gone, transferred to another body, it is dead. Dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). One who is actually scientist, he is not surprised. He knows the soul has transferred to another body. That's all. That is scientist. (break) ...real scientist, not a rascal like you. We don't give.... (break) You cannot act. We accept Kṛṣṇa as scientist because He explains. You cannot explain. How we can accept you as scientist? You are rascal. Up till now, nobody was able to explain—simply vague. How we can accept these vague explanation as scientist? And daily changing, every year new theories. And I have to accept you scientist? Kṛṣṇa said tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13) five thousand years ago. It was known very well, and it is going on. That is science. You cannot give any solution, you are changing your ideas and theories every year, and we have to accept you as scientist? (break) ...speaking something, and I have to accept him as scientist? Madman, crazy fellow, saying something today, saying something other next day.

Morning Walk -- May 15, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: The hell or heaven doesn't matter. The next life is there. How you say "one life"? That is defective theory. Therefore this philosophy cannot be accepted. Anything which is defective is not to be accepted.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Simply dogma.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...rejected. That is Vedic process.

Hari-śauri: Actually, there's so many different understandings that the Christians have of the same thing. They all have different type of philosophy.

Hayagrīva: No, Christ never said that. Christ never said you only have one life.

Prabhupāda: So that is real philosophy. That is real philosophy.

Morning Walk -- May 25, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Where it was before? (indistinct) Or gas?

Devotee: Well, they basically have two theories. Either the "Big Bang" theory...

Prabhupāda: Theories! Don't take theories. Nonsense. Theory is speculation, nonsense. (laughter)

Hari-śauri: I was just reading last night in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, how Lord Brahmā saw Kṛṣṇa produce hundreds and millions of universes and Lord Brahmās and cowherdboys and cows and calves from His body, and then they entered back into His body within a moment. (laughs) It's going to be a little difficult for these scientists to appreciate the actual creative potency.

Prabhupāda: Because he thinks Kṛṣṇa is like him, but He's busier (indistinct). It is said this water is the semina of Kṛṣṇa. So they will say, "How you can...? So much semina?"

Devotee (2): Well there are some theories where they think the universe was started from a big lake.

Prabhupāda: Wherefrom the lake came?

Devotee (2): Well, actually they say that that's not so important.

Prabhupāda: So your word is also not important. "That is not important. His word is important." Do you see the point? Whatever he'll say, that is important. So anyone can say something that is very important.

Morning Walk -- May 26, 1976, Honolulu:

Hari-śauri: It appears from the Kṛṣṇa book that there were many billions of people more on this planet when Kṛṣṇa was here than there is now. And they had no problems then.

Prabhupāda: Not only that, we have got from history. They were begetting hundreds of children. There was no scarcity of food. And who is begetting now one hundred children? Ha? One or two or at utmost.... Utmost eight, ten. Wrong theory, population increasing. Rascal's theory.

Hari-śauri: It's just that they don't know how to manage nicely.

Prabhupāda: Ha?

Hari-śauri: They don't know how to manage nicely.

Prabhupāda: There's so many, so much land vacant all over the world—Australia, Africa, South America.

Morning Walk -- May 26, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Oh, he was Kṛṣṇa conscious. In those days everyone was Kṛṣṇa conscious. (break)

Devotee (2): There's only a certain amount of grain. There's only a certain amount of water. So...

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee (2): There's some theories, where they think that there's only a certain amount of grains...

Prabhupāda: Their theories we don't accept. There's so much water.

Devotee (2): But, therefore, if they don't, if you don't work to conserve it, then everyone will starve.

Prabhupāda: After all, you produce it, then conserve. These rascals, do they produce water?

Devotee (2): No.

Prabhupāda: Why he's anxious to conserve it? It is not his production. That is rascaldom. Ha. He has taken from some other sources, and he wants to conserve it. He does not think that "I did not produce it. It has come to me."

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1976, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: ...was as you say (indistinct).

Devotee (1): About the origin of the universe?

Prabhupāda: No.

Devotee (2): Chance theory.

Devotee (1): To prove that theory of chance.

Prabhupāda: And still they accept it?

Devotee (1): Yes.

Prabhupāda: What do you think?

Devotee (2): There's no evidence, because you've explained many times that an orange always comes from an orange tree, a banana always comes from a banana tree, man always comes from man, and monkey always comes from monkey. We find that actually things are not happening by chance. That they're very much controlled.

Prabhupāda: There is. Nobody can deny it. Only this tenth-class man will deny it. Even third-class man, fourth class, he'll not deny. But what is that intelligence, one should make it a science. Intelligence there is no doubt about it.

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1976, Honolulu:

Devotee (2): There's another theory that God created the universe, and then things are just happening haphazardly. There's no actual design or ultimate plan of creation. Simply He created, and things were set in motion.

Prabhupāda: That is another foolish notion. Just like the seed, banyan tree seed, every plan is there: how the tree will grow, how the fruits will flower, flowers will come. Everything is there. That is intelligence. Within a small seed everything is there potency. Aśakti vividaiva. Sarvavidya. It comes certainly.

Devotee (2): One thing though, people, they see that there's birth and death, they don't understand the purpose of the whole creation when they see that so many things are going on like this.

Prabhupāda: There is purpose. We have explained so many times. The purpose is that we have come here to enjoy, but this enjoyment is false. God has given us the chance to enjoy, to experience that this enjoyment is not good. They are simply suffering. They cannot enjoy. The plan is that he's given the chance to enjoy and experience that here there is no enjoyment and he's simply suffering. So when he comes to his sense, he again goes back home. The thief, he thinks that to live in the prison house is very good: "I haven't got to work, and I shall get my food and shelter." That is not.... That is a false enjoyment. Outside the prison, that is enjoyment. If one thinks that "I don't have to work; let me go to the prison house." Father wants that the sons should live in the family, but sometimes the son leaves the family and wants to enjoy independently. So he suffers. Jajīva (indistinct) māyā kare japoti (indistinct).

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That means they couldn't. Still, he says. Just see, he has brought as if he was dog, the rascal. The dog is prohibited. Man is.... (break) (walk continues on beach) ...They have got?

Rāmeśvara: Other theories

Rādhāvallabha: Theories?

Rāmeśvara: The scientists.

Prabhupāda: Scientists or philosophers, their only business is to defy God. All demons.

Bali-mardana: Actually, Prabhupāda, the people are turning away from the scientists now, because they have seen that their promises have not brought anything.

Prabhupāda: And simply, if we can expose that they never went to the moon planet, their life will be finished.

Devotees: Jaya, haribol!

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rādhāvallabha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, scientists have this theory called use and disuse. They would say that these birds here that have the long beaks for eating fish, originally, they did not have that, but after many, many millions of years of trying to catch fish, gradually their beaks became longer. And they would say that would be the origin of that species.

Prabhupāda: Huh? What is that?

Hṛdayānanda: He's saying that because the fish are trying to catch fish, therefore...

Rāmeśvara: The birds are trying to catch the fish.

Hṛdayānanda: Therefore a beak comes out. (laughter)

Bali-mardana: No, no. That's not the theory. The theory is that the ones with the long beaks are able to catch the fish. Therefore, the other ones die off.

Hṛdayānanda: Therefore they get the long beaks?

Bali-mardana: Just from mutation.

Rādhāvallabha: That's not. It's another theory.

Hṛdayānanda: Madness.

Candanācārya: It's another theory.

Prabhupāda: Hmm? So that's all right. If we are eager for Kṛṣṇa, we shall get Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So we agree with that theory.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hṛdayānanda: It has been given by Kṛṣṇa because he always wanted to catch fish.

Hari-śauri: They used to give us a simple example at school. They said that the people that lived in Mexico City...

Prabhupāda: No, no, we accept that. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante (BG 8.6). If, at the time of death, he thinks that "If I would have possessed a beak," then he gets the life. That's all. (laughter) That's a fact.

Rādhāvallabha: They say that this is the way the different types of bodies come into being, that by the desire...

Prabhupāda: That we say also. There is no difficulty. Because at the time of death, whatever you are thinking, you'll get the next body. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rādhāvallabha: Their theory is that these bodies never before existed, but by the desire of the living entity, that certain type of body was created.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That means nature is above. He wanted that body; nature has given. Is that correct?

Rādhāvallabha: No, not exactly.

Prabhupāda: Then what is that?

Rādhāvallabha: That they want a particular facility, and...

Prabhupāda: And nature supplies the body, that's all. Simple thing.

Rāmeśvara: But they do not put a limit, 8,400,000. They think that it can keep going on increasing, increasing.

Prabhupāda: Then let it go on. That's all right. What is wrong?

Candanācārya: By their theory, though, a human being would be able to generate wings or a beak like a bird.

Prabhupāda: Yes, there are human beings who can fly in the sky. Siddhaloka, Siddhaloka. There is a planet called Siddhaloka. There the human beings from one planet to another go.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's all. You have now got the power. You cheat more.

Rāmeśvara: The people in America that claim that the American government is controlled by Communists. They say that these big, big bankers, the very rich, rich people, that they are actually..., their theory is Communist government, or, not Communist, dictatorship, and that they are secretly manipulating.

Prabhupāda: What is their aim?

Rāmeśvara: Power.

Prabhupāda: Power..., anyone who has got money, he has got power. That is open secret. What is the secret? (laughs) If you have got money, you have got all power.

Rāmeśvara: They're very expert in making the people think that this is democracy and that the people have power. (static)

Prabhupāda: If you can purchase vote by paying money, then where is democracy?

Rāmeśvara: Just like one of their arguments is that these rich bankers, they can control how much money is being printed.

Prabhupāda: Yes, suppose I stand for presidency, and I take money from bank and bribe and get vote.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, he spoiled these. They are already spoiled, and (static) that the government has done nice thing. What is his value? But because he has got money (static) popularity, he has become big man.

Rāmeśvara: So there is this theory that there is a conspiracy all over the world that the rich men to control.

Prabhupāda: That is, we say. If you have got money, you can make conspiracy or anything, whatever you like. Conspiracy I cannot make, I have no money, I cannot make conspiracy. But if I have got money, I can develop a conspiracy with my money. That one man asked, "Have you got any intelligence?" The man began to.... "Let me see." "What is that?" "I am seeing my pocket." "Why pocket?" "Intelligence means pocket." If there is money in my pocket, then there is intelligence. Otherwise, there is no intelligence. And Cāṇakya Paṇḍita also said, daridra-doṣo guṇa-rāśir nāśī. A man may be very, very big, qualified man, but if he's poor, everything's finished. Daridra-doṣo guṇa-rāśir nāśī.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: The changing.... When the child is born dead, why he does not grow? (laughter) Therefore they are rascals.

Mahātmā: There was one boy in Berkeley, and he worked for a company that would record facts and figures, and he said every year the Navy would pay this company something like sixty thousand dollars and would give them their theories that they knew were wrong, and this company would supply false facts and figures to coincide with the theories—make up facts that would support their false theories.

Prabhupāda: What is that false theory?

Hṛdayānanda: They want to take money, so they say "We need so many things, you have to give us money from the government to buy new weapons," this, that, so they make up false things for money.

Prabhupāda: Befool.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. So two or three or four or five coming from the life. The amoeba is a life. Not that from any stone it is coming. The life is coming from life. But in a different way.

Rādhāvallabha: Previously the scientists used to say that they would put dirty laundry and rotten garbage in a box. Then a few weeks later they would find rats. So they said that rats are made from garbage. So then everyone—this was presented as a very laughable theory. And then the next theory that was presented as the actual one was that life came from chemicals.

Prabhupāda: First of all, life comes from rats (laughs). Every year, they are changing their theories.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Actually, their philosophy came from rats.

Prabhupāda: Hmm? What is that philosophy? Rat philosophy? This is called vṛścika-taṇḍula-nyāya in Sanskrit. The scorpion is coming from the stock of rice. Actually, the scorpions they lay egg within the stock of rice, and by fermentation the eggs become scorpion and come out. Not that the rice is producing scorpion.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rādhāvallabha: The scientists know about that, and they say yes, that is very laughable, primitive. But their new theory is simply that life comes from chemicals. So it is actually the same thing.

Hṛdayānanda: Yes, because life is also chemicals.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But the fact is that they cannot even manufacture a tiny seed which will fructify.

Prabhupāda: Yes, let them manufacture a seed. From that seed a big tree will come.

Rāmeśvara: They cannot do that.

Prabhupāda: Then?

Candanācārya: Some devotees are saying that cockroaches are coming from the vapors of impure things.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they come. That is called sveda-ja. Just like from perspiration, bugs are coming out. Sveda-ja.

Rādhāvallabha: So isn't that life coming from matter?

Prabhupāda: Not matter. From matter is not coming, but they are taking birth.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (in car) Scientists are changing their theories, how we can accept? Reasonably? You are changing your theories, how we can accept you are scientist? You are not sure of your position. Philosophers also, they say "I believe." What is the meaning of this philosophy?

Hari-śauri: They simply give their own opinion about something and present that as being fact, and everyone else has their own.

Prabhupāda: I have got my own opinion. Or anyone can have his own opinion. Why your opinion should be accepted? I have got.... (break) ...is that one does not understand that he is imperfect. Or he knows that he is imperfect, still, he wants to push forward his opinion. That is the difficulty. He knows he's imperfect. But he does not think that "I am imperfect. What is the value of my opinion?"

Rāmeśvara: If I have a bigger brain than someone else, and if I give my...

Prabhupāda: Comparatively, you are less crazy. That is another thing.

Morning Walk -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: In India people believe.

Prabhupāda: No, India believes. India have no authority.

Hṛdayānanda: I think now there is.... People are becoming more interested in this theory. They say theory. I think there is more interest now. I'm talking to common people. They're...

Prabhupāda: So if there is next life—they believe—then what they are doing for the next life?

Rāmeśvara: The Christians only believe in one life, and after that one life you either go to heaven or to hell forever.

Hṛdayānanda: For that reason people have rejected Christianity, because they cannot explain, for example, why a child, for example, is being killed. He's innocent. But by our philosophy it can be explained. For that, people, intelligent people...

Prabhupāda: Christian religion is speculation. All these philosophers, talking on Christian religion, speculating.... No clear idea.

Room Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...can have so many engagements. Simply by making dress, we remain Kṛṣṇa conscious. Simply by cooking, we remain Kṛṣṇa conscious. Simply by cleansing the floor, we remain Kṛṣṇa conscious. Easiest method. Everyone can remain Kṛṣṇa conscious in any circumstance. Ahaituky apratihatā. It is not condition that "You have to become like this; then you'll become Kṛṣṇa conscious." No. In whatever position you are, you become Kṛṣṇa conscious. No extra intelligence required. Śrī-vigrahārādhana-nitya-nānā-śṛṅgāra-tan-mandira-mārjanādau **. Either you dress the Deity or you cleanse the floor of the temple, the same thing. You get the result the same. Tan-mandira-mārjanādau. Anything you do. Somebody is cleansing, somebody is chanting, somebody is cooking, somebody is printing, somebody is selling books—everything is Kṛṣṇa conscious. And that is the best yoga. Sa me yuktatamo mataḥ. Yoginām api sarveṣām: (BG 6.47) "Of all the yogis, who is thinking of Me, always in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is the topmost yogi." "By meditation I am trying to become God. By meditation one can become God." This is their foolish theory. Kṛṣṇa, when He exhibited His godly power at the age of three months, where was meditation? (laughs) God is always God. You cannot become by meditation God. You can become godly; that is possible.

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Dr. Wolfe: Yes, she lives here. She has worked in a clinic for many years, and exclusively with dying people.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that.... One has to come to this conclusion undoubtedly. And that is education. Her education is now complete, that he (she) has understood, he (she) is trying to explain scientifically that there is life after death. That is complete education. So everyone should try by his education to establish what is already said in the śāstras. That is a fact. When Kṛṣṇa says, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13), one gets another body, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre... (BG 2.20). Kṛṣṇa says there cannot be any mistake. So if scientist, philosopher, establishes the statement of Kṛṣṇa by their scientific knowledge, that is real perfect scientific knowledge. And if he wants to defy the statement of Kṛṣṇa, that is māyā. That is not possible. But he's vainlessly trying to do that. But if one by scientific knowledge establishes what Kṛṣṇa says, that is perfection.

idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā

sviṣṭasya sūktasya ca buddhi-dattayoḥ

avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito

yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam

(SB 1.5.22)

That is required. We are publishing one book, Dialectic Spiritualism: Vedic Views of Western Philosophy. We are just going to publish one book, Dialectic Spiritualism. Marx's theory is dialectic materialism (laughs). We are going to establish dialectic spiritualism.

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: If he comes out, he faces unemployment. Better to remain here. (break)

Jagadīśa: ...how to prolong life and stop death. So Dr. Frog has a recent theory that (Prabhupāda laughs) if a person fasts on every third day, he can prolong his life, twice as long. They are experimenting with rats on this basis. (break)

Rāmeśvara: And we take our knowledge from Śrīla Vyāsadeva.

Trivikrama: And here also, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the ocean, they're surfing, extreme cold.

Rādhāvallabha: It's so cold that they sit on the water and they just tremble.

Prabhupāda: That is also another punishment, voluntary.

Hari-śauri: Everybody's doing tapasya, but for their own cause.

Prabhupāda: Hm? Yes. Ugra-karma, ferocious activities.

Interview with Jackie Vaughn (Black Congressman) -- July 12, 1976, Detroit:

Jackie Vaughn: I think it's all in the theory. We are not making first things first.

Prabhupāda: That means whatever we do, we do in ignorance. You do not know what is the first thing or what to do first. That we are correcting. Here is the first thing. Pour water in the root.

Jackie Vaughn: Right.

Prabhupāda: We are correcting-Kṛṣṇa, or God, then everything will be all right. Otherwise failure. Now you American people you write, "In God We Trust." But if I ask you "What is God?" you cannot reply. Then how do you trust in God? Blindly. If we trust in God, we must know that God is actually the only trustworthy person. Then if I put my trust in Him, that is sensible. But if I do not know what is God, no idea, and if we simply write, "In God We Trust," what is this? This is slogan. But actually people are becoming godless. In schools, colleges, they are prohibiting, "Don't talk of God." Do they not?

Jayatīrtha: That's a fact.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: Who travels? You say.(?) Sun is fixed up, they say.

Devotee: According to their theory, it is fixed up.

Prabhupāda: According to our theory.... We don't say theory. According to Bhāgavata statement, in this season, the sun runs slow. In the other season, the sun runs fast. That is understandable. But if the sun is fixed up, why in some season if is going fast and some season it is going slow?

Mādhavānanda: Their theory is because the earth is tilted on an axis, that during the winter season the sun is hitting at a different angle, and therefore it's different time. They say that the earth is rotating also, and the axis is turning from one side to the other, so that north is sometimes...

Prabhupāda: Where is the question of going fast and slow?

Jayādvaita: They say that because the smaller portion of the earth..., the earth is spherical, and by the top it's smaller, so when that top side is pointed toward the sun, the sun is, as the earth turns, the sun is hitting each place sooner in each day. So it's going, traveling less distance on that surface. Then when it turns the other way, it has to go more distance. Some..., they have some concocted idea. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: (laughing) All concoction. That is not explanation. This is nice explanation, that in this season the sun goes faster and in this season the sun goes slower. That is quite understandable. Just like you are walking. Sometimes you walk slow, sometimes you walk fast. That is possible. (pause) So you can convert the down room, one of the down room as reception, like this. This should be Deity room.

Interview with Kathy Kerr Reporter from The Star -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: To understand his spiritual identification. At the present moment, this age, all over the world, things are passing on on the bodily concept of life. But we are not this body. That is the defect of modern civilization, that there are two things—one, the body; and the moving force which is moving the body. So they are taking care of the body, but they have no information what is that moving force. They are presenting some foolish theories that the body is moving by chemical composition, by this, that, but actually they do not know what is there. The chemical composition..., what is that? Frankenstein or something?

Jayādvaita: Frankenstein. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: These foolish things are going on. They think the body, by some chemical and physical combination and electric power.... Although they have not been able to do so, but still they'll theorize like that. In this way the whole human society is going on in a deep, ignorant platform. So, that is the defect of the human society at the present moment, and we are trying to mend this defect by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. People are trying to understand.

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Satsvarūpa: Of course, evolutionary theory is that in the beginning, all the different species weren't there. Only simple forms, and then they..., more complex ones came about.

Prabhupāda: Wherefrom they came? Dropped from the sky?

Satsvarūpa: Some theories.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) has joined us, about fifty friends, Indians, they have left him.

Satsvarūpa: (break) I plan to go to Detroit tomorrow. (break).... shall we leave.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Tomorrow. We are leaving also tomorrow?

Satsvarūpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...of the garden, they are not clean. They should be clean. Just like in front of our, this temple, the footpath is very clean.

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Is there any step?

Prabhupāda: Therefore they support this accident theory. Nowadays they have got the accident theory. Because ordinarily there is no good. There is no possibility. But by accident if some good comes, that's all. Otherwise, jagato 'hitāḥ, it is only fault. They are... But accidentally means good comes. Accidentally, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement came. (laughs) Although it was going on in India. Nobody called Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the scientists, the philosophers, the politicians. But accidentally came. Accidentally, we got result. You cannot explain God, therefore you take it as accident.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This is very interesting, very interesting. In a Vedic community everything is very ordered, and goodness prevails, therefore God consciousness seems very natural.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: So if you want to be a Vaiṣṇava, you must give up the company of these two rascals. Then your progress is guaranteed. Everything is there. There is no difficulty to distinguish between rascals and intelligent, guru and bluffer. Everything is there. And to become a perfect Vaiṣṇava, Caitanya Mahāprabhu said asat-saṅga tyāga ei vaiṣṇava. Don't talk even with these rascals. But sometimes in the preaching work we have to talk with such rascals, but not to take their theory but to teach them our theory. If you become defeated by their theory, then you are not a preacher. Don't preach, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. You are not fit for teaching. If you become overcome by their teaching, then you are finished. A preacher is madhyama-adhikārī, advanced devotee. He can preach. Kaniṣṭha-adhikārī should be engaged in temple worship, very nicely, then gradually he'll come to the madhyama-adhikārī. So the preacher is madhyama-adhikārī. A kaniṣṭha-adhikārī cannot become preacher. He is in the lowest stage of devotional service; he cannot become preacher. He'll be conquered by the asat. And madhyama-adhikārī, he knows how to deal with asat. At least he does not mix with them. That's all.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Because they don't want to accept God.

Prabhupāda: No, no, accept God or not, where the accident theory comes?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Well if they don't give some explanation, then they'll be considered fools.

Prabhupāda: Some explanation, they have to give you something foolish explanation? So foolish man will accept that, not a sane man. If you say "By accident," then I'll say why not accident in the history of the world there is a rose plant some other flower has come out? If man has come from monkey, why not coming now? So they give so may foolish propositions, only fools will accept. Anyone who has a little reasoning power they will not, they'll understand that these are all crazy fellows, talking all nonsense. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. We have got little formula to understand that if one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious he has no good qualifications. He cannot say anything as a qualified person. That is the test. Mūḍha. Immediately take: a mūḍha. Let the mūḍhas speak all nonsense. Why should we waste our time? This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As soon as we find somebody not Kṛṣṇa conscious, not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, we take, reject, he's a rascal, that's all. And he is rascal. Not only blindly we are rejecting, but with reason. (end)

Garden Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Dhana-māna. Because they have got money, whatever they think, that's all right. And their gurus also will say, "Yes, it is all right." If the guru says that "It is not all right," then nobody will come to him. He has to say "It is all right," because he's also after money and woman. That's all. He does not come here to teach something. This is going on. Therefore they come in so many numbers. They have now taken a good field. And in America you go, you say any nonsense, and they'll accept. And pay money for that. From the very beginning it is going on. Now, because it is going on like that, we are also counted amongst them. "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." This is the difficulty. They are also taking this movement, "Oh, these boys are chanting and dancing. This is also another sentiment, another edition of hippie movement." There is a, I think, Gresham's theory: "Bad money drives away good money." You know this? This is a economic theory. "Bad money drives away good money." Because nowadays bad money, that paper money, is going on, that gold coins no more in existence. Formerly we have seen gold coins in our childhood. You have not seen any. We have seen.

Room Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: The scientists' first proposal is, what they cannot understand, don't bring. That is not scientific. Whatever you say, that is not scientific. Whatever they say, that is scientific.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: The word science comes from the Latin word which means "to know." But they simply have theories. They don't know. But we have actual knowledge.

Hari-śauri: Their science means "don't know." (end)

Room Conversation -- July 2, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: What is their scientific reasoning? Talking like fools and rascals? If something is illuminating, why extra illumination required to illuminate.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Their theory is that there's a dark side of the moon that we've never seen.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Their theory is that there's a dark..., that actually the moon is reflecting the sun's light. So there's a dark side of the moon.

Prabhupāda: So far the world is, where is the dark side and the bright side? If you compare like that, then so far this globe is concerned, which one is dark side, which one is bright side?

Hari-śauri: No, they say the earth is spinning on its own axis, so all parts of the earth at one time or another receive sunlight.

Prabhupāda: The moon does not do that?

Hari-śauri: The moon does not revolve on its own axis.

Prabhupāda: Another foolishness.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now these statements are quite scientifically valid and sound. Now this will be verified in our next slide that is called the axioms. This is called structure of a theory. In scientific disciplines, specifically in mathematics, now scientists work with a beginning called axioms. There are two types of axioms. First one is logical axiom, and second one is theoretical axioms. Now from these axioms, by inference, actually one deduces these theorems. That's in the second block. From there, by observation, we have this object of study. Now the basic question is wherefrom these axioms coming from? The starting point, axioms, they take it for granted, and actually there is no proof. It is beyond proof, beyond any scientific proof.

Prabhupāda: Vedānta-sūtra means all axiom. Vedānta-sūtra, that is all axiom. Axiomatic truth.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now understanding these basic differences, to study the origin of life has some meaning. But scientists studying the origin of life, they have no idea about these fundamental differences. So they claim that life actually is a manifestation of matter. In other words, life comes from molecules. They call it "molecule to man" theory. That we will see in the next slide. Now in this slide the molecules is called primordial chemical soup. Now these chemicals are supposed to be formed from simple, reduced substances like water and ammonia and carbon and hydrogen compounds. They are called hydro-carbons. Now these somehow, under the action of ultra-violet radiation or cosmic force, they combine together and form these amino acids. Now these amino acids, in due course of time, form the polymers called proteins. And similarly, several polymeric compounds develop and, given a long period of time, we've shown there chance and given a long period of time, then it's going to bring life, it's going to give life. That is the fundamental background of the scientific study of origin of life. This is what they have proposed. These molecules, somehow they combine, given enough length of time, billions of years as the time period, and then it's bound to happen. They say, given enough length of time...

Prabhupāda: Provided he lives billions of years. But he's finished within fifty years. (laughter) And his theory remains. The rascal cannot remain more than fifty years, and he's talking of billions of years. This is the defect. Who will see after billions of years? He is finished within hundred years. These are theories only. We see practically. Egg appears like chemical combination, but if you give, proper fermentation will come, fermentation?

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: It comes within few days. Why billions of years? Why should we wait for billions of years? This is nonsense. We see practically a bird can give birth to a child within few days, within a week. Why should we wait for billions of years? What kind of scientist you are? (laughter) Proposing to wait for millions... You nonsense. Who's going to accept your foolish theory? We see practically that within a week, and you say billions of years. Nonsense, stop that. Tell them, "You are nonsense, stop. Don't expose yourself any more." We see here, practically, within a week the life comes. Suppose the egg is a chemical composition. It is, it is chemical composition, that's a fact. But it gives life within a week. Why shall I wait for billions of years? Just see their foolishness. And this is being accepted as scientific.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, actually it is taught in all schools. There's a book called Molecules to Man. It's written by a very famous biologist, and it has been taught in school, saying that you come like this, from molecules, now you become human beings.

Prabhupāda: Now what...? Leave aside man. Molecules to chicken. How it is done? What is their answer?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say give enough length of time.

Prabhupāda: Why shall I give them? Here I see. Within a week, I get.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That I have already said. We see practically within five days, within seven days, the life is manifest, and these rascals say millions of years, which he'll never see, neither I'll see. And we have to accept such theory. Before seeing that life system, his life will be finished and the student also will be finished. And who is going to see?

Rūpānuga: Their trick is that they say it has already happened. Over the past four and a half billion years the time has taken place for this complex form of life to evolve. So they say it has already happened.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, we differ in the time. You say millions, billions, and we say seven days.

Vipina: But they'll say that it's able to happen in a couple of days because it's taken billions of years.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The basis of their philosophy is that there's no intelligence behind it, therefore everything is chaotically going on, and by possibility it develops. But our philosophy is that there is intelligence, it can immediately happen.

Prabhupāda: We see practically. The egg theory, we can see practically. It doesn't require millions of years.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we want to completely wipe out this theory.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually, there is, if we think of not in terms of science, but just in terms of our day-to-day experience, in social, moral, ethical, all levels of consciousness, if one analyzes this a little carefully, the root cause of our complete ethical background at this time is mainly due to this theory that "You are from molecules, and when you finish your body you'll also go back to molecules. So don't worry about all these high-sounding philosophical words. You just enjoy whatever you want and do whatever you like to do." So this type of complete materialistic...

Prabhupāda: Irresponsible life.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, meaninglessness. No meaning. So it has no purpose because of this very concept. So at least there's a strong influence, especially in the colleges and the university circles, the students...

Prabhupāda: Educational circles. Yes. In the education circles they are made fools. Education means he's a more fool, that's all. That is education. Mūḍha. Māyayāpahṛta-jñāna. These fools and rascals, their actual knowledge is taken away, and they are coming out as educated. That we are protesting.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes, I have said, yes. Means whatever little education he has, that is also finished.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So, by the mercy of His Divine Grace, if we can eliminate this theory then we can establish Kṛṣṇa consciousness on firm scientific basis.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is there. My order there.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And there is a great necessity...

Prabhupāda: Yes. To save the people from this foolish type of education.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now in the next slide we'll show that... Actually, there were some previous scientists who were not actually atheists, rather, they had some sort of devotee qualities. And one scientist called Pasteur, he actually proved that life cannot come from matter. That is shown in the next slide. So this is the experiment. It was in...

Prabhupāda: This Pasteur? There are many Pasteur Institutes.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: In the Nyāya-śāstra, it is there. Taṇḍula-vṛścika-nyāya. Taṇḍula means rice, and vṛścika means scorpion. The scorpion coming out of the heaps of rice, so therefore rice is producing scorpion. This logic is wrong.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, so but people then believed like that. So Pasteur, actually he believed strongly in God, and he wanted to disprove that theory, and, in fact, he got prize for doing this experiment from a French academy and, during that year... This flask contains sugar solution and with some yeast to ferment at the beginning. But now the experiment was to completely kill any germs inside the flask by heating, in the beginning, and then cool it down automatically and to keep for some time, about two or three days...

Prabhupāda: Sterilization.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is Vedic theory. That is explained in the Bhāgavatam.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And here he has a nice quote, Pasteur. Somebody can read that?

Hari-śauri: Says: "Posterity will one day laugh at the foolishness of the modern materialistic philosophers. The more I study nature, the more I stand amazed at the works of the creator."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So he believed actually completely in the divine concept, divine personality. But unfortunately this experiment has been misinterpreted by these demoniac scientists.

Prabhupāda: That is also Vedic conception, that sex between man and woman is not the cause of life. Unless the living soul comes in the proper situation, the man's secretion, woman's secretion combined together emulsifies, and it creates a proper situation for the rest of the soul. So contraceptive method means that emulsification is disturbed. It does not create the proper situation; therefore pregnancy does not happen. Or imperfect discharge. The main point is that the two discharges, they create a situation wherein the living entity comes and rests. Then it will grow. Not that that is the cause of life. The mixture of two secretions is not the cause of life. That creates a proper situation, and the life comes.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is... When the life comes from outside, then there is germination.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the perfect theory.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So life comes from life.

Prabhupāda: As I have already explained. It is not the man and woman sex creation. The life comes from outside. The solution was there, but life comes out. The same example. The solution of man and woman is there, but life must come there. Then there will be pregnancy. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). Find out this, Third Canto.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: This is outside. This is not the combination of the solution. The soul is coming from outside. The same theory. It is not the solution which is creating life.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: "The materialistic theory that there is no soul and that a child is born simply by material combination of a man's and woman's semina is not very feasible. It is unacceptable."

Prabhupāda: Next verse.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Text two. Kalalaṁ tv eka-rātreṇa, pañca-rātreṇa budbudam.

Prabhupāda: He's giving description of one day, one night, next night, next night, like that, every description.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That may be, but you are responsible for that. Because you are driving me from this apartment by force. Actually, in a higher sense, that is accepted, that he was to be driven away. But because you are driving, you are responsible for that.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now this experiment, another interpretation of these material scientists is that they claim that this experiment disproved the vital theory. But on other hand, actually, the opposite is true, that he proved that there is a vital theory, rather, that spirit must be there. That was actually proved by this experiment also. But the mentality of these scientists are so demoniac that they twist the truth around... (break) RNA is a big molecule and that is actually transferred from this DNA molecule. DNA molecule, they call it the master molecule from which everything comes, all the molecules. Now if we see this carefully, we can see at every step that there is a specific direction and information without which this whole machinery will break down.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca (BG 15.15). Find out this verse. Vedaiś ca sarvair... So "If you want to acquire knowledge how these molecules are working, so you must know it is coming from Me, the direction is coming from Me." You are waiting, wherefrom this direction is coming. Kṛṣṇa says "This direction is coming from Me." Mattaḥ, "from Me." Then the Absolute Truth, it is recognized.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Sadāpūta: This slide shows..., these are the laws of nature according to physicists. And the point we make is that this is their understanding of the final cause of things, and it's very limited. Actually, on this one page, these equations describe everything that goes into all the actions and interactions of chemistry according to their present understanding. And, so there are two main points to make about this. Number one, these are very..., these laws describe very simple forces, pushes and pulls between atoms and things like that. And so intuitively it is very hard to imagine why such simple forces should cause anything complex to organize itself together. Now the scientists customarily make the assertion that laws like this are universal, but one thing we can notice is they have no proof of that. These laws which they say are universal are only studied in certain limited experimental situations with inanimate matter, and then they extrapolate and they say that they apply to everything. But actually the equations are so hard to solve even for reasonably simple molecules that they can't actually test out their assertion. So it's actually just a bluffing statement. So in this slide we wanted to point out how limited these laws are, how limited their concept of the laws of nature is. The next slide, according to the scientist's idea, there are two things going on—these laws and also chance. So this is a calculation showing what happens if you just have chance acting to form one of these proteins that Svarūpa Dāmodara was talking about, and you can calculate... Actually here you calculate, suppose you threw a protein together at chance—and here we even allow a ten percent error, you're allowing to get it wrong among ten percent of the proteins—but still chance comes out to ten minus two-hundred-and forty-fourth-power. Now the scientists are always saying if you wait for a long enough time, even something very unlikely can happen; but here we have a calculation of how long you'd have to wait, according to mathematics and the probability theory, and even if you assume an unrealistically high rate of forming proteins at random, still you'd have to wait, according to this, ten to the hundred-and-sixty-seventh-power billion years. And that's a little bit too long. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is mathematics.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: So the chance theory is the grace of God.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Grace of God?

Prabhupāda: Yes, because if God sees that the rascal is trying for so many years, "All right, give him a chance." (laughter) That is His mercifulness. So what they call chance theory, that is grace of God.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So God is all-merciful.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is the proof.

Sadāpūta: Actually, this couldn't come about by just chance, because the number of possibilities...

Prabhupāda: There is, but he takes it as chance. All the possibilities taken together he is given by God. That he does not know. He takes it as chance. But there is no question of chance. It is the gift of God.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: There is no question of evolution. It is already there. This is a wrong theory. The monkey is there, the man is there. The soul is going from monkey to man. It is not the evolution. Just like you have got apartment, ten rupees, five rupees, twenty rupees, thirty rupees, like that. Now, as you pay, "Come on, here." There is no question of evolution. It is already there. Jantur dehopapattaye. These dehas, these bodies, are already there. So immediately it develops a particular type of desire, "Yes, come here, sit down." First class, second class, third class, fourth class is already there. As you pay, "Yes, come here." It is not evolving; it is already there. He is transferred from one apartment to another. This has to be convinced. We don't find that monkey's body became a human body. That is not in the experience, anyone. The monkey is there, the human being is there. But the soul is going from monkey's body to human's body, or monkey's body to another body. That is by superior administration. Their theory is the body is evolving and some body is missing. Nothing is missing. Every body is there. The soul is being transferred from one body to another. Asatims caturam caiva laksams jīva jātiṣu.(?) Jāti means the form of the body.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There's one strange point here about calculating this that dawn of Brahmā about two billion years old. Now strangely these geological calculations, they also claim that at that time the first free oxygen in the air appeared, first time. The beginning there was no free oxygen. We can accept that? (laughter) Now from here, anyway, this is the basic point, that once this oxygen appeared, free oxygen, then the living entities began to appear slowly. That is the whole theory of this chemical evolution. The results for the chronology is just put it that dawn of Brahmā is two billion years old?

Prabhupāda: You can carefully read the Second Canto, Bhāgavatam, Third Canto. You'll get all the knowledge, how things develop. It is a question of development. So maybe there was something missing, but after development it is manifested there. That is possible.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Fundamental mistake, there. So if we bring up this, scientist are going to believe here, more likely to believe, because this is (indistinct) in the time range that they are talking about.

Prabhupāda: So long. As soon as there is five thousand years, they will (indistinct). The Christian theory used to say that the world is flat. So what is the value of their words? There is no value. You do not try to compromise with others.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, we are not compromising with anybody.

Prabhupāda: You present your own as it is Bhāgavatam, try to explain them to your best capacity scientifically. If you bring this, bring that... All of them are imperfect. So what is the use of wasting time with something which is imperfect?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We want to demonstrate that those points are imperfect.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: My point is that the Christian theory is also imperfect and the scientists also imperfect.

Rūpānuga: We can show both.

Prabhupāda: If you can show that, that is all right.

Rūpānuga: That is why we made this chart...

Prabhupāda: That is all right.

Rūpānuga: ...to show...

Prabhupāda: Show them imperfect. That will be... (break) Actually they're imperfect. Just like they say five thousand years, a ludicrous. They, and the scientists say that the stratum of earth, what is called?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Strata, layers.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: But that is a fact.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But we had one explanation saying that now, the way we percept knowledge, though we understand things, there is also a conditioning behind it. So actually this is a fact, but in Mathematics, if we change the axiom, then we have a whole new understanding, it's almost completely upside down, but still we can interpret the result. It is just like a simple jumble(?), while Nils Bohr, studying the structure of the atom. Now he had a mathematical equation to fit the phenomena of this atom, and actually you can perfectly describe this phenomena by this equation, but, now, at morning times, this quantum mechanics, it turns out whatever he did was completely wrong, but it can be described completely, perfectly well as his model, as is our present understanding. But now his theories (indistinct), he could explain things on his own, but still it's completely wrong. So similarly...

Prabhupāda: They are right. They may present the wrong thing, but still they are right.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Because they know, we can cheat these rascals, government. They are all rascals, we can simply talk in some bombastic words (speaks gibberish). They'll believe it. This is going on. All imperfect knowledge.

Hari-śauri: If they don't produce some new theory, or some new discovery...

Prabhupāda: That means they prove their own foolishness. Why do you produce new theory? If there is perfect knowledge? That proves their foolishness.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's also called intellectual exercise.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They want to...

Hari-śauri: Mental speculation.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Manorathena. Asati dhāvato bahiḥ. Mental speculation.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: If devotees take up the whole world for management, then everyone will be happy. It is no doubt it. Kṛṣṇa wants that. He wanted the Pāṇḍavas should be in charge of the government. Therefore He took part in the fighting. "Yes, you should be the... All the Kauravas should be killed, and Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira installed." That is the dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). He wants everything goes very smoothly and people become God conscious. So their life be successful. That is Kṛṣṇa's plan. That, "These rascal misleading and therefore... the (indistinct) the human life has been spoiled." Therefore I was talking about the "What is the meaning of the independence, (indistinct)?" ? The life is spoiled. And they will spoil their life and become next life a dog, and this big, big building, with stair, that's all. What the big buildings will do benefit to these people who is going to be a dog next life? Taking as a theory, that those who have constructed this big, big building and next life they're going to be a dog.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: We have to hear this thing: "Somehow they have made a mistake."

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually it is very controversial. This... I read an article from the university of Berkeley, Berkeley and some other western campuses, saying that now the theory of this mutation by which the different species are formed is very controversial at this time. Because of the knowledge in our molecular biology, now what they have thought that this mutation is the cause of this variegatedness is a misnomer, being complete mistaken.

Prabhupāda: All mistaken. Where is the difference, then how do you experiment in the biological class by dissecting animal body? What is the difference in the composition of social construction, I er, bodily construction. You have to suffer. That's why I have said, there must be (indistinct). The same principle is there. Otherwise how the mosquito fly like this and...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They can make a mosquito but they...

Prabhupāda: No, they cannot make mosquito. They can make 747.

Room Conversation -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We must be ready for...

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) just like we're opposing their theory. They are not absolute.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Science, science also, Prabhupāda, changing the subject level, science also comes to the conclusion that the stars and this universe have..., they die out and then they produce new ones, just like life cycle of the living body. So...

Prabhupāda: Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So in fact, one of the remarks of a scientist, Nobel laureate actually, in Harvard, Mādhava told me he was in American Association for the Advancement of Science. This professor is a professor in biology in Harvard, Boston. His answer was that, "In order to have man in this planet, the stars have to die." That means we come from the stars. The particles, from the stars, then the main involved from those molecules, that star, that come from the stars.

Prabhupāda: You do something. I can give you the idea. But it is fact. What ideas I am giving, that's a fact. Now it is up to you to put it (into) so-called scientifics. He'll... In future millions of years after it will create one living entity in the laboratory, so he's taking all the credit, and God is creating millions and millions already, He has no credit. You'll see their intelligence. What the people will gain even if you manufacture one life in the laboratory? So what is the gain? Why you are spending so much money?

Yadubara: They want to become God.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Rūpānuga: They are stopping the benefit.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So the human life is meant for understanding God, and these rascals by all dead theories, they are stopping to understand God.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Scientists are responsible for that.

Prabhupāda: Yes, the greatest mischief-maker, in the name of scientific knowledge. We must fight against them. Let them agree, "Yes, God is supreme." Then there is no fight. But as soon as they say that there is no need of God, science will solve everything, then they are rascal, you must expose.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Another point about this Institute, from my experience in the last few days in Washington, there were some Indians who come to the temple, and they are very favorable to the concept.

Prabhupāda: Include such members. Let them...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yesterday this Sharma, Dr. Sharma, he came, and he's going to come this evening, he's quite well known as a scientist.

Prabhupāda: Medical man?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, he's not medical man, but he has two or three Ph.D.'s in two, three different fields. In engineering, in chemistry and in pathology.

Vṛṣākapi: He's becoming a life member, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: That pathologist.

Room Conversation -- July 7, 1976, Baltimore:

Prabhupāda: The thing is that these persons, they are holding the... Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). A blind man, he has no eyes, and still, he's leader of other blind men. Is it possible? A blind man, he is blind man, he has no knowledge, and still, he's leading other blind men. This is a very dangerous position. He has no actual knowledge, simply speculating, putting theories and formulas, and they are leaders of the society.

Rūpānuga: We have to stop this.

Prabhupāda: Yes, otherwise people are misled. It is not the duty of education to mislead people. Real knowledge should be given. To become a great misleader and take some title, that is not good.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The other morning Śrīla Prabhupāda was mentioning about the Institute, the Bhaktivedanta Institute. So is there anything else that your Divine Grace wants to?

Prabhupāda: Institute, you have got sufficient subject matter as I was describing, this original source of life and the planetary system, as you are going to make planetarium. Who can say about so many planets in the sky? Who has got sufficient knowledge? They cannot even give... They think that moon is the nearest planet, but we do not think like that. But still they are unable to give sufficient knowledge about the moon. It is not vacant, it cannot be vacant. We do not find any part of the world vacant. There is living entities.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That's all right, this is one way of studying, but when you have studied the chemicals, combine them and bring a human life. Science means observation and experiment. Simply observing, analyzing that it is a combination of chemi..., that is not perfect science. When you... This is theory. When you practically bring into action, that is called practical... What is called?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Experimentation?

Prabhupāda: No, no, in science there are two con..., theoretical and practical. So theoretical knowledge is no perfect. When you bring it in practical action, then it is science. In the scientific laboratory, they do not simply theorize; they test it in the laboratory. That is science. If you cannot test it by combination of the chemicals which you have analyzed in your..., then it is failure, is it not?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Here is a scientist. You have not studied properly. That is defect. So why defective knowledge you are declaring as knowledge? That is cheating. When you have perfect knowledge, then you declare. That is science.

Interview and Conversation -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: There is soul. As soon as there is living condition, there is soul. As soon as the body is dead, there is no soul. This is difference. It is the Christian doctrine, not scientific doctrine, that animal has... What we have to do with Christian theory?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have poor understanding of the nature of the soul.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In Christianity, they speak of...

Prabhupāda: It is not very advanced.

Rūpānuga: That's not respected.

Prabhupāda: That is true.

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Our challenge should be "Do it." If you cannot do it, then you give up your title, let it go to the chicken. Huh? What is the wrong there, if we say "Dr. Chicken," "Dr. Frog"?

Sadāpūta: These theories of theirs are taught in high schools and colleges as fact, practically. Like the student in Gainesville was telling us that he was taking zoology, and they were teaching evolution, and they were saying that it wasn't a theory anymore but it was a proven fact, and that he was quite dissatisfied with that.

Prabhupāda: Proven fact?

Sadāpūta: Yes, that's how they are teaching it. They don't even teach evolution as a theory anymore, but they say it's been proven as a fact now, what they are teaching.

Prabhupāda: So how it is fact? You cannot do. So what is the fact?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are cheating. There is also a big man in Bombay who is working on this line. He's a member of this International Society for the Study of the Origin of Life. Now they call... In fact, they use a Sanskrit word for this life coming from chemicals, they call jīvana particles of life. So they are also catching this idea that life is nothing but molecules. So along with this article, they are also writing from Bombay. So actually it is worldwide, all over, this concept. In India I think a little more interesting to give seminars along these lines. In India in the universities, the reaction of the... My feeling is that it will be different.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. So do it.

Morning Walk -- July 9, 1976, Washington D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Covered by water.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That can explain many facts, because they're having great difficulty in finding these old fossils, in Siberia, and all these other places, they find some strange fossils, which are not supposed to be there according to their theory.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But if we accept this catastrophism, this can explain many facts.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The rocks also have offspring, if they're living?

Prabhupāda: That offspring is mouse. (laughter) There is information the rocks were flying.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Mountains, some mountains are flying.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In the..., cut off their wings.

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is going.

Devotee (1): They are actually confounded by the element of time. They think that if they go in a spaceship they can then generate another human being by putting a man and a woman in the spaceship, and they can continue on for some time like that.

Prabhupāda: That is theory. It is theory.

Devotee (1): That's their idea to reach very distant places.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Today I was seeing in our kīrtana hall that there must be now about a hundred and, at least a hundred and seventy devotees here, a hundred and seventy-five devotees. But still the kīrtana hall was not even half full, I think. It can hold at least four hundred people, that hall.

Prabhupāda: Yes, it is big hall.

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Just see, how rascal they are.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That should disprove all of their theories.

Prabhupāda: They speak all... That the egg will take millions of years and the chicken is bringing within five days. So why these rascals do not transfer their doctorate title to the chicken (laughter) instead of bluffing other rascals that "We are doctorate"? They should be ashamed to keep their doctorate. "Now let us transfer to the chicken; within five days there is life." Huh? What do you think? Am I right or wrong?

Hari-śauri: I am sure you are right.

Prabhupāda: The chicken is bringing from the egg life within five days, and they are calculating millions of years. Such rascals are passing as scientists. If chemical is the basis of life, just make some experiment, take the chemical and make a small egg and put into the incubator and bring life. Why they do not, hmm? It will take millions of years, and the chicken is bringing within five days?

Bali-mardana: They say in a few years they will do it.

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Foolish policy. Just like the deaf man, he thinks everyone is deaf. You know that? This is psychology. Deaf man will think that everyone is deaf. Broadcast radio message in the Pacific Ocean, the aquatics they do not reply, that means there is no life? Rascal theory.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anyway, maybe they speak a different language.

Devotee: They don't understand that there may be different mediums of communication.

Rāmeśvara: The government announces to the public that so much money from the taxes has to be spent on this space exploration. But according to the information that you're giving us it is not possible for them to be spending so much money to photograph Phoenix so they must be stealing the money.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You mentioned that in previous ages when there was yajña taking place on this planet, sometimes the demigods would come down. So that means that is it possible that they would be communicating with the people of this planet?

Prabhupāda: Hm. They're speaking Sanskrit language. In all other planets they are speaking Sanskrit.

Room Conversation -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: Anyway, there must be defect because the love is reposed in some defective or imperfect personality. It may be Lenin or it may be Washington. It doesn't matter. He's imperfect. Love is there. Otherwise why so many people are working? But because it is misplaced, they are not satisfied. Therefore it is stated, yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. Adhokṣaje, this word, is used. God.... They may say that "Where is God?" And therefore the word is adhokṣaje: "beyond your sense perception." Everything is within sense perception. So therefore this very word is used, that "You cannot see, you cannot perceive, but still, you have to love Him." Adhokṣaje. They say, therefore, that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is some ideal, imagination, Kṛṣṇa. They think.... They say, I have an imaginary form of Kṛṣṇa, a stone, and "Unnecessarily they are wasting their time, loving Kṛṣṇa." What is their theory? You know that?

Harikeśa: Some people think.

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are some. They are not all. Even they criticize that "You cannot see Kṛṣṇa." So similar argument can be, "You do not see Lenin. Why you are worshiping?" That's it. "Is Lenin present before you? So why you are worshiping?" You'll see. You have got, in Moscow got, every street corner a big picture.

Room Conversation -- August 2, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Bhagavān: "Employing pedantry." Look up pedantry. It says, "Usually derogatory."

Hari-śauri: Oh, "Pedant—one who overrates booklearning or technical knowledge or insists on strict adherence to formal rules. One always possessed by theory doctrinaire(?)."

Prabhupāda: Yes, this word.

Hari-śauri: Pedant.

Prabhupāda: Pedagogue?

Bhagavān: Pedagogue is the first, yes.

Prabhupāda: What is the spelling?

Hari-śauri: P-e-d-a-g-o-g-u-e.

Prabhupāda: Pedagogue. Not pedi, but peda.

Hari-śauri: Pedagogue.

Prabhupāda: So they are going on, pedagogue.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Hari-śauri: God may have made everything, but now He has no connection with it now.

Prabhupāda: Why? He has made and He has no connection? What is this rascal theory? He has made everything and He has no connection.

Hari-śauri: No, He gives up the connection.

Prabhupāda: Why He gives up? He has made for His enjoyment. Why should He give up?

Hari-śauri: They say that He's made for our enjoyment and it's for us to divide and enjoy.

Prabhupāda: No. Therefore you are rascal. Everything is done by somebody. Suppose if you organize one business. That is for your enjoyment. God has created anything, that is for His enjoyment. But you are sons of God, you can enjoy the property of the father as far as you require. Not more than, you cannot take more than that. Then other sons will claim and there will be fight. You live. You are son of God, you live at the expense of God. God has sufficient supply. But don't try to take more and stock. That is folly. You eat, you live very nicely. There is no prohibition. But you cannot take more than what you require. This is Bhāgavata communism. If you take more, you'll be punished. (break) ...our philosophy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā (ISO 1). The Indians are trained up like that. He is happy in whatever condition of life he is placed. He doesn't protest. Any Indian villager, he'll say "God has given me this position, that's all right." Therefore the modern man is complaining that in India, this God consciousness has made them lethargic. They do not do... They believe on the destiny. Actually they do. Actually they do. Therefore from the very beginning you'll find so nice philosophy, literature, but you won't find the modernized economic development. Big, big house, big, big road, no. There was no such attempt.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Just see. Here inside the ice there are life.

Parivrājakācārya: They are very surprised. They said how is this happening.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Life is everywhere. This bogus theory there is no life, the atmosphere is different, it is bogus, simply bogus. Because spirit soul is never affected by any material atmosphere. That is the distinction between matter and spirit. It has nothing to do with this material atmosphere. They don't have knowledge, they are baffled. And those who have no knowledge, they are accepting.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense.

Hari-śauri: Yes. They mix ammonia and...

Prabhupāda: Chemical theory. Why do they not in the end mix something and see if life is coming? They are all rascals, speaking one after another, rascals.

Hari-śauri: That's their whole thing, that if...

Prabhupāda: If by mixing something they can bring life, why not in the egg?

Hari-śauri: Yes, they can't even do it here.

Prabhupāda: Simply for... But you rascals you cannot understand how they are speaking rascaldom.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes, everything, if there is no everything, then what is the meaning of intelligence?

Dayānanda: But I may develop more intelligence to create what I lack.

Prabhupāda: That is theory. That is not fact. (break) That is given by nature or God, whatever you say. That is not in your intelligence.

Hari-śauri: God may have given us all the basic things, but it's taken man's intelligence to make the...

Prabhupāda: That is all right, but if God has given you so many basic things, then you can use your intelligence. Otherwise, your intelligence... There is a story that one man was asked by his friend, "Have you got intelligence?" He began to search out here. So, "What is this?" He said, "Intelligence means when there is money here. Otherwise, I am even though I have got intelligence, useless." You can utilize your intelligence provided you have got the means. Intelligence also you cannot utilize properly if there is no supply.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that mathematics department is now being closed. You know that? Nobody cares to attend that mathematic meeting. People are becoming disinterested with these chance theories. There is one Dr. Henderson, you know? He became doctor in that field. He's not getting job, now he's manufacturing incense.

Dayānanda: Oh, George Henderson?

Prabhupāda: George Henderson. He has no job here. All these theoretical doctors are no longer required by (indistinct).

Devotee (2): I was reading the other day that they are doing some experiments on Mars. They have twenty-two different theories about this one idea. Just this one little idea, twenty-two different theories.

Prabhupāda: Theory means they are not certain.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: So you have to create people to have faith in Kṛṣṇa. If people are going by faith, so you have to create this faith that Kṛṣṇa (indistinct). They can create, you can create. And they criticize our destiny theory, believing in the destiny. They criticize it. So why they'll depend on chance theory? What is the difference, destiny and chance?

Devotee (2): Destiny means there is controller.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee (2): Destiny means there is a controller.

Prabhupāda: That's all right, but they cannot explain what is this controller; therefore they disbelieve. Just like yesterday we were discussing that atheist class, that they are by chance there was lusty desires and there was pregnancy and there will be child. So we say, "No. Daiva-netreṇa. These things have been arranged by superior authorities." This is destiny, that what is already arranged by superior authority, that is destiny. You cannot change it. A man is ordered to be hanged by court justice, you cannot change. He is to be hanged. And they will say, "By chance he will be hanged."

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Ātreya Ṛṣi: If the devotee's purified, he's convinced that if he becomes purified he will be free.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The whole devotional process is purificatory process. The more he is purified, he becomes high-class devotee. But the process is the path of liberation. Just like mango. The green mango, this green mango will be ripe mango. The same mango. You cannot say that the ripe mango is different from the green mango. It is a process. By the process the same green mango becomes yellow; then it is perfect. (long pause, devotees chant japa in background) What is that point, there are thirty theories or something about this Mars planet?

Devotee: Twenty-two theories.

Prabhupāda: You just told?

Devotee: They are trying to understand the geology of the planet and how the surface of the planet was formed, what...

Prabhupāda: They have different... (break)

Devotee: They are so foolish that they say these experiments are very wonderful. They are very proud of these experiments...

Prabhupāda: Hm? Because they do not know.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: So how long they'll present the same theory over and over again? They're already putting the same thing. They have concluded in the moon there is rocks and sand, nobody can live. The same thing they are saying in a different way, and in the end they will have to say like that. Because they have no knowledge, it is simply theoretical. And they have no other alternative but to say the same thing again and again. What they will say?

Jñānagamya: They say on Mars there can be life because the conditions are a little bit like earth.

Prabhupāda: Suppose there is life, then what you gain?

Devotee: They say that our knowledge now is not mere theoretical because now we have gone there.

Prabhupāda: But what profit you have gained? You have spent some millions of dollars, that's all.

Devotee: More theories.

Evening Darsana -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Nava-yauvana: There is no controller.

Prabhupāda: No, there is no controller. By chance, they meet. There is no controller that brought them together. By chance they came.

Hari-śauri: Things just combine by chance and develop.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no question of controller. That is their theory.

Harikeśa: By accident.

Prabhupāda: By accident. Accidentally they met and there is pregnancy and there is a child, production, creation. That is their idea. Or what is other argument? So far I know the atheistic, what is called that philosophy? Now I forget it. What is the philosophy of Devahūti-putra?

Harikeśa: Sāṅkhya? Atheistic sāṅkhya.

Prabhupāda: Sāṅkhya, yes, atheistic sāṅkhya. This is the atheistic sāṅkhya. In Bhagavad-gītā there is, kim anyat kāma-haitukam. Find out this. In the Sixteenth Chapter, I think. Jagad āhur anīśvaram, kim anyat kāma-haitukam (BG 16.8).

Morning Walk -- August 11, 1976, Tehran:

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Where, in Koran?

Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say the modern scientists.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Modern scientists. One theory is the evolutionary process.

Prabhupāda: So wherefrom evolution begins?

Ātreya Ṛṣi: They don't know how it began. Some say it came from water. How does life begin? Nobody really knows.

Hari-śauri: They say there has to be certain combination of gases, ammonia, water, some hydrogen.

Prabhupāda: They cannot make this gas and combine?

Hari-śauri: This is the way they are testing for life on Mars. This is one of the tests.

Prabhupāda: No, why Mars? In their laboratory they can make gas and mix.

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Harikeśa: Lust.

Prabhupāda: No, no, that is already discussed. Don't talk foolishly.

Harikeśa: No, but the original cause...

Prabhupāda: Lusty desire, that is their theory, that's all. But the lusty desire is not the cause. The cause is the semina.

Harikeśa: But the lusty desire is the cause of the semina.

Prabhupāda: That is one of the cause, there are many causes. Remote causes, immediate causes, there are many causes.

Harikeśa: But that's the original cause.

Prabhupāda: What is that original cause?

Harikeśa: That lust.

Prabhupāda: Original for you because you are rascal. But there is another cause before that.

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Obstinate rascals. Not only rascal, but obstinate rascal. Their only remedy is shoe. That's all. Obstinacy. There is a story about obstinacy. Two friends were talking. One friend said, "This is cut by a scissor." So another friend says, "No, it is cut by the knife." So then there was fight. So the friend who was talking of the knife, he was strong enough. So he captured him: "You accept it is scissor, otherwise I'll throw you in the water." So other, "No, it is scissor," so he threw him in the water. So when he was dying, he was doing like this. (Prabhupāda makes a hand motion like scissor) (laughter) So he is obstinate rascal. It is as good as that garden here. Rather, here there is no disturbance of outsiders, and there there are so many disturbances. It is better. Our theory is... Not theory, fact-daiva-netreṇa. These things are arranged by superior management.

Jñānagamya: Actually, Prabhupāda, that lust is a perverted expression of love. Kṛṣṇa is creating out of love, and in the material world it becomes perverted. So in the material world lust is the cause.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In the spiritual world, what is love, that is in the material world lust.

Press Interview at Muthilal Rao's House -- August 17, 1976, Hyderabad:

Host: With your permission I must thank with the permission of Swamiji, my friends, I welcome you to my humble house. Today, though you are all very, very busy, but you have made it a point to come and listen to Swamiji speak to you theory, lessons, and his belief and faith. It depends how we take it. Because I have faith in him, I have faith in his teachings, that is why, I being a politician, I being a member of Parliament and the legislative assembly, deputy minister and the ambassador, I have requested and begged of him to come to my humble house to spread his knowledge, which he is giving to the other parts of the world. Last time he visited in a very similar manner, we have got a small gathering here. So at that time I hope you will pardon me, I couldn't think of you all, thinking that, you know, the journalist friends are my good friends, and they are very knowledgeable friends, and that is why they can put so many questions. And by putting so many questions will get the answers by that we are enlightened. So that is why now it is the time for Swamiji to go for maṅgala-ārati. He has given me something. I am a student of Bhagavad-gītā. My guruji is there, he's doing pūjā. He has given me something when I met him, when I heard him, he has given me a gupta-dāna. That is dātavyam iti yad dānaṁ dīyate 'nupakāriṇe deśe kāle ca pātre ca tad dānaṁ sāttvikaṁ smṛtam. It is in the Seventeenth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā, it is as far as sukṛta is concerned. So that is why he has given me something that indirectly gupta-dāna. So I said always I should follow. Unfortunately, I could not meet him. Recently when I was..., till recently when I was an ambassador I was to go to Nairobi, I was in Somalia, but unfortunately things couldn't materialize. But now if at all I get an opportunity of going abroad I shall be visiting all the institutions, their organizations, their temples, because I am a member of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, life member. I have canvassed, some have become. Canvassed means I've just put a word. Some have become, I who requested, some of my friends who have not become, to become members of Kṛṣṇa conscious, permanent members, life members, like Mrs. Yamuna is here. Yamuna's husband, Raman Rao is here. And I would like you also to become, others also to become.

Prabhupāda: I was explaining, imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). If the big big politicians, head of the state, they understand, yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ lokas tad anuvartate (BG 3.21), others will follow.

Room Conversation -- August 20, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: This is morality. "You commit immorality as much as you like. You simply admit it. Then it's right" (indistinct) This is their propaganda. They do not want to stop immorality. "You do, and don't hide it—you admit." But persons are so shameless that they will continually do, and they have no shamefulness to hide even. That is the Christian theory, that "Our religion is so... Maybe we are unable to remain without any sin. Christ will excuse us." Is it not? This is going on. This is.

Saurabha: They're also criticized a lot there. They have been criticized a lot there locally. People, they think they are CIA.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Us?

Saurabha: No. The MRA. Because they have big meetings twice a year only.

Prabhupāda: The MRA, they are Americans?

Saurabha: Yes. Most are Europeans, Americans.

Prabhupāda: This movement was started by President Eisenhower with the help of a Christian priest.

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: It is impractical. Is it possible to import drinking water for so many people?

Prabhā Viṣṇu: No.

Prabhupāda: This is their utopian theory.

Prabhā Viṣṇu: They are thinking that man will conquer over nature. That's their ideal, that man will become God.

Maṇihāra: Just before I left England... They have so many cows in the south of England, they were grazing. But because it was so hot, the grass was not growing. It was becoming very dry, and no new grass was growing because there was no rain. So then they had to move all the cows to the north of England. Thousands upon thousands of cows, they have to move in big lorries to the north of England where there was some grass. And now in the north of England there is no grass, so they're going to have to move them to Scotland. It's costing so much money. And then the cows are going to become thin.

Prabhupāda: They are killing immaturely. Because they die, they cannot eat. They want to eat fresh, huh? The want to kill them alive. (pause) You want? So let us go down to the car. (end)

Morning Walk -- August 23, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: You are less than animal. You are greatest animal. You want to kill your children.

Vāsu Ghoṣa: But they have no life. There is only you know an amoeba in the womb.

Prabhupāda: Don't talk nonsense, waste time. All rascals proposal. Don't indulge in this rascal theory.

Indian devotee: Now there is a society for prevention to the cruelty to animals. At the same time they are killing the animals also.

Mahāṁsa: They think they can adjust and control.

Prabhupāda: Mūḍha.

Indian man: There is a preordained karma that says some human being should come into existence or some spirit soul should take some body.

Prabhupāda: Transmigration.

Morning Walk -- August 23, 1976, Hyderabad:

Indian man: Survival of the fittest theory may be applicable in our spheres because fit means...

Prabhupāda: Fittest means who does not get next a material body. He is fit. He is fit. Because as soon as you get a material body...

nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma

yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti

na sādhu manye yata ātmano 'yam

asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ

(SB 5.5.4)

They are mad, working day and night. Pramatta. And acting just adverse to his interest. So Ṛṣabhadeva says this is not good. You should know that he has already got a body for which he is suffering. Pritar yantra.(?) And again he is creating another body. By his karma he is creating another body. So as soon as you get a material body you'll have to suffer. Either you become a king or a dog. Because you have got this material body you have to suffer. Pritar yantra. So asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4). This body will not exist.

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Krishna Modi: (Hindi) They don't want anything. They say that religious is a opium. So that what you are doing (indistinct). They are not (indistinct). If they are in power then they can do like that.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They did it in Russia.

Krishna Modi: Because their theory is this: That this God and all these religious matters, this is a opium and this is a kind of, you may say it that in the umbrella. Religious in the name of...

Prabhupāda: And what they have done, the Communists?

Krishna Modi: They have not done anything. They should not do anything. It is not their duty.

Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say, countries like Russia and China, what actual progress they have made?

Krishna Modi: That is... They say like that, that we are giving very good food to everybody, very good house, and living, and all their (indistinct), education, medical free. We are giving the to common men...

Prabhupāda: Medical (indistinct) is free. Free medical service, education... (break)

Garden Conversation -- October 14, 1976, Chandigarh:

Indian man (4): In theory everybody believes it, that na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20).

Prabhupāda: No. What is that nonsense theory? We must know it actually. What is the use of theory? Theory is no good. You must know factually. That is knowledge. Theory is not knowledge. Anyone can put forward some nonsense theory. That is not knowledge. Knowledge means factual. That is... So we have to take knowledge...

Indian man (4): How To attain that knowledge then?

Prabhupāda: That also, Kṛṣṇa is explaining. Why don't you take it? The knowledge is there, but you refuse to accept. So what is fault? Whose fault it is?

Indian man (4): How should I persuade myself that that...?

Prabhupāda: No, if you don't persuade, nobody can induce you to persuade. If you are obstinate, who can persuade you?

Garden Conversation -- October 14, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: That is rascals' theory. Nothing extinct.

Indian man (4): This is not correct.

Prabhupāda: No. Just like he says that man comes from monkey. Monkey is extinct? Where is the question of extinction? There is no question of extinction. There are different species of life, and according to your karma... Just like there are first-class, second-class, third-class compartments. If you pay for the first-class, you enter into first-class. You cannot say that third-class is extinct. According to your karma... Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa jantur dehopapattaye (SB 3.31.1). According to... As you pay. If you pay for third-class, you enter into third-class compartment. If you pay for first-class, you enter into first-class. So it is according to your karma you'll get a body. Why it should be extinct?

Garden Conversation -- October 14, 1976, Chandigarh:

Prabhupāda: You do not find. This is only... You simply repeat Darwin, that's all. You do not find. You do not see anything. You simply hear from Darwin. You have taken Darwin as your authority. But you don't take authority, Vedas. That is your fault.

Indian man (4): Darwin had drawn that theory from observations...

Prabhupāda: Wherefrom he has drawn? He has speculated only, like a rascal. That's all. Wherefrom he got this thing? He has said that "It is my speculation." Speculation is no knowledge. You can speculate in your own way. Knowledge gathered from the authority, that is real knowledge. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) We have published even in Chinese language. European.

Room Conversation -- October 31, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (indistinct)...their arguments so strong.

Devotee: (indistinct) ...debaters.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Haṁsadūta: Yeah, and their theories were that because... Because they are, they have accepted your Divine Grace as the absolute authority, that they will do anything that you say and therefore these people are very dangerous. They don't care for anything. They're not interested in the normal standards and goals...

Prabhupāda: Charmistic, charmistic, what is that?

Haṁsadūta: Charismatic.

Hari-śauri: Charismatic.

Haṁsadūta: Charismatic. There is, they usually use this word to describe a person who attracts people, but no one can understand why.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they cannot explain, brainwash, mind control, charismatic, like that they use.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I don't think in any other edition such explanation is there. Dr. Radhakrishnan, other this Dada (?) Krishna. Radhakrishnan and Dada Krishna. Tribhir guṇamayair bhāvair ebhiḥ sarvam. Hm. Nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Therefore they cannot understand what is God, especially the communist countries. Completely in ignorance. (Sanskrit) They're thinking that by external adjustment, by following the Marxist theory or Lenin's theory and killing the capitalists, inventing some bogus ways of happiness... (pause) You have been in Moscow?

Haṁsadūta: Hm, several times.

Prabhupāda: Hm. I think they are poor. Is it not?

Haṁsadūta: Very poor.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Room Conversation with Dr. Theodore Kneupper -- November 6, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Just like you are a philosopher. So you should not make only theories, "perhaps." But actually, by your philosophy, you establish the existence of God. Then you are philosopher. Idaṁ hi puṁsas tapasaḥ śrutasya vā sviṣṭasya sūktasya... (SB 1.5.22). Find out this verse in the Bhāgavata. Avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito yad-uttamaśloka. If by your philosophical knowledge you prove, "Yes, there is God," then your philosophy study is perfect. And if you philosophize, "There is no God," that is useless waste of time. To gain popularity, if you make philosophy like... In your country there are so many rascals philosophers, Darwin, Freud. They are all rascals. They are predominant.

Room Conversation -- November 20, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: People are so misled. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We have to change this body. There is no preparation. "As sure as death." Death will take place, and you have to accept another body. Who understands this philosophy? Nobody. They are so dull-headed. This body finished, everything finished. All big, big leaders, scholars, they say. One gentleman, his name is... He was Rabindranath Tagore's brother, artist. So in a meeting he was saying, "We are so fool. Thinking of next life, next life, we are spoiling this life." He said like that long, long ago when we were children, young men, about eighteen years, twenty years. So I remember distinctly, he is saying in the meeting that "Simply thinking of next life, we are spoiling this life." He said. That was his explanation. So at that time we were young boys: "Yes, why we should think of, so much of next life?" Of course, I was not very much convinced, but naturally... I think his name Aurobindo Tagore, like that. Rabindranath Tagore. He is good artist. Artist means latest fashion, like this, like that, like that. He was considered to be latest artist. And his view is that. I talked with Professor Kotofsky. He said, "Swamiji, after finishing this body everything is finished." Communist. This is the cent per cent idea. The so-called scientists, they are thinking, by chemical evolution the body has come in existence. These things are discussed in Bhagavad-gītā. By accident, if it is a combination of chemicals, that means the bodily existence was not before. It has come in by accident, combination. "So why, Arjuna, you are lamenting for the body which was not in existence? And it will not exist after. Then why you are so much anxious for the middle portion?" Good reasoning. The body was not in existence. That is the general... And as soon as you finish, there is no more existence. So via media, between the manifestation and nonmanifestation, in the middle there is some manifesta... Why you are so much absorbed in that part? Therefore the Europeans, Americans, they bring in the charges, "brainwash." "A brainwash movement. It has no actual value. Simply an artificial way of pushing the idea in the brain. And they have to give up. These children are spoiled. They have given up meat-eating and illicit sex. Their life is spoiled, and so on, so on." So their theory is not without background.

Evening Darsana -- December 3, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. You can have respect for everyone. That is good. But it does not mean that by purchasing ticket for Delhi you go to Bombay. And it does not mean that because you do not go to Bombay you have no respect for Delhi. That is not. But if you want to go to Delhi you have purchased a ticket for Delhi. If you want to go to Bombay you must purchase a ticket for Bombay. Why do you speak nonsensically that "Whatever ticket I purchase, I go to Bombay"? (laughter) This is nonsense. They'll take to the nonsense theory. That is Vivekananda's theory. "Whatever you do, it is all right." Yato mata tato patha. And that is not fact.

Morning Walk -- December 5, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: This rascal theory has meant an atheist. (break)

Vāsughoṣa: ...mānava-sevā say, "I don't have to support your society or your temple because God is everywhere."

Prabhupāda: This is also mānava-sevā. We are giving this knowledge to the human society. Is it not sevā? They are remaining in darkness of their position and we are giving them this knowledge. This is not sevā?

Vāsughoṣa: But what about the poor, hungry, and the suffering bodies?

Prabhupāda: Yes, poor, hungry, come. We can give you food. We are giving, already. Show the pictures. You have not seen the pictures of Māyāpur, how two thousand, three thousand people we are giving. That is included. Bhāgavata-sevā includes that. You do not require to do it separately. It is already there. Just like if you pour water on the root, the watering the leaf is included. But if you water the leaf, then that tree will dry. And that is not complete. But if you pour water on the root of the tree, it is complete. Why don't you give this reason? This is natural. If you give food to the stomach, the service of the other parts of the body is included. But if you give food to the eyes, it is spoiled only. The food is spoiled, the eyes are spoiled, and nobody is satisfied. Why don't you give this reason?

Preparation for Gita Pratisthana -- December 9, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Similarly, whenever there is scarcity of supply or scarcity of food, it is not due to overpopulation. It is due to overcriminality or over-sinful activities, due to over-sinful activities, not overpopulation. It is a bogus theory. That is stated, tān ahaṁ dviṣataḥ krūrān (BG 16.19). Those who are devils, who are demons...

Jagadīśa: What was that verse, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Tān aham.

Jagadīśa: Tān.

Prabhupāda: For the demons. Demons and godless people must be (indistinct), you cannot make a solution. You cannot surpass the law of nature. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). There is enough water in the ocean, but still you are suffering for scarcity of water. Why? What is the answer?

Room Conversation on Farm Management -- December 10, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: So anyway, this is my instruction. We have to written and discuss and go. And I want to see tomorrow many thousand people. If you cannot make attractive, why they will come? Then it is failure. Make attractive. Whatever money is required, I shall pay. Simply theory will not help. Make such prasādam as people will come and be mad after it.

Jagadīśa: Yes, we can...

Prabhupāda: Just explain. You have taken in writing?

Jagadīśa: It's on tape.

Prabhupāda: So go and discuss. They must be attracted.

Jagadīśa: I see.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise it is failure.

Room Conversation with Indian Man -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: This is all very easy to understand. Mother means from whom the child is coming, is it not? That is mother. Everyone knows. So you see this whole world, wherefrom everything is coming, you see, practically, gross knowledge. I see a plant is coming from the earth. A tree is coming from the earth. And according to evolutionary theory... Not theory, fact. The dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). When his plant life is finished, he takes another body, insect life. So the mother is the earth. That's a fact. I am eating the things which are... Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. I am a life. I am taking either grain or I am taking flesh, the material is supplied from the earth. The animal also, he is also eating the grass. That is coming from the earth. The earth is the mother. That is a fact. Now we should be intelligent, that simply mother cannot beget a child. There must be father. So who is that father? The answer is here. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). So where is the ignorance?

Indian man: This is Brahman.

Prabhupāda: And again. Kṛṣṇa says aham, why do you interpret in different way.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Mr. Malhotra: Gold, I think I am also gold.

Prabhupāda: No, gold that is accepted, quality. That if you say, this is explanation. You must have brain to understand. That a small particle of gold and a big gold, they are gold in quality but the big gold is millions of dollars and a small particle is few dollars. Just see this is accepted. This Māyāvāda theory has made people atheists, that "I am God, I am equal to God." Very bad theory.

Mr. Malhotra: From where these things also come? From where it comes?

Prabhupāda: From the Vedas. Vedas says, na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate, Upaniṣads. Na tat-samaś cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate, parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate svā-bhāvikī jñāna-bala-kriyā ca (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport).

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: That also you will find, those who are highly elevated, they can avoid.

Mr. Malhotra: They can completely avoid sleeping! Hundred per cent?

Prabhupāda: No. They can, but they do not show like that. Otherwise artificially one would like to imitate it.

Mr. Malhotra: But in the medical theory they are saying so much insomnia.

Prabhupāda: No insomnia, he becomes mad. (laughter) That is another thing. That is disease.

Hari-śauri: One of my parent's friends, she hadn't been to sleep for 7 months because of a nervous condition when she was going crazy. I saw that.

Mr. Malhotra: There must be sleeping pills.

Prabhupāda: Yes, in western countries, tranquilizer.

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: Politics. Senayor ubhayor madhye rathaṁ sthāpaya me acyuta. Senayor ubhayor madhye. (BG 1.21) "Between the two soldiers, keep my chariot, my dear Acyuta." He is addressing Acyuta. Acyuta, Kṛṣṇa, agreed to become his chariot driver. Therefore he is purposefully using this word acyuta. "Because I know You are the Supreme Lord, and I am ordering You, but because You promised that You will carry my order, Acyuta, You never fail in Your word." So God's another name is Acyuta. God never falls down. This Māyāvādī theory that "I am God, now I am fallen down," That is wrong theory. How God can fall down? If God falls down He is not God. Dog falls down, not the God.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Scientists are rascals. Those who are following Darwin. What is their theory?

Devotee (1): They maintain that from the oceans came one-celled animals. Then from these one-celled animals, they developed into fish and then reptiles. And then these reptiles became very big dinosaurs, and they have put together many big museums. For instance, in Washington the Smithsonian Museum has many, many big bones put together and they date these millions of years ago.

Prabhupāda: So we have got also the same theory. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. (break) ...within water. So where is the difference? We also admit the forms of life begins from the ocean. Then plants. As soon as the water is dried, there are plants, trees. Sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. Sthāvara means "the life which cannot move." So the trees, plants, grass, they cannot move. Then insects, then reptiles, then birds, then beast, then human being. In this way the living entity is changing body. So what is the difficulty?

Devotee (1): But they say that the human body developed right from these other bodies. In other words...

Prabhupāda: Evolution, from beast human body has come. That is the difference? Even there is difference, what is the idea?

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Modern scientists don't say that we can make the soul. Soul is permanent in every man.

Prabhupāda: No, the rascals say, "We can create." So that rascal, number of that rascal is more. They are saying, bluffing, that "Now we shall create chemicals. We are trying." This is going on. Just this morning he was saying.

Dr. Patel: It is the theory of these people I think that...

Guest (4): Communists.

Dr. Patel: Communists.

Prabhupāda: That means rascalism. Not a single soul has been created till now and these rascals are claiming that they are going... And they are scientists. We have to accept them as scientists. Just see. This is... Not only now. One gentleman, one big doctor, chemist, he has got Nobel Prize, he came to California and our Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara, he was in the also in the university, he's also doctor and chemist. So he was speaking on the chemical evolution. So he's my student, he challenged him, that, "If I give you chemicals, can you prepare life?" "That I cannot say."