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Theory (Conv. 1968 - 1974)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Radio Interview -- March 12, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Actual identity is that you are spirit soul. And this material body is your covering. Just like dress. Just like when you dress, the real body is there. Similarly, we are within this material body. So we are taking more care for the dress and not for the body actually. But when a body is dead we can understand that there is something missing. That missing thing is the soul. In the modern educational field there is no department of knowledge to understand that what is that missing part. There are so many theories, but they are not practical. Therefore we have to understand the soul and its constitution from authoritative scriptures like Bhagavad-gītā. Then we can understand our identity actually. And in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said that persons who are identifying themselves with this material body, they are not actually human beings. They are counted amongst the asses and cows. So that is ignorance or illusion.

Morning Walk at Stow Lake -- March 27, 1968, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: They kill the grandfather and have a feast, the cannibals. Yes. That is a great sport, that the grandsons will kill the grandfather and have a feast on his body by toasting.(?) Yes. The same idea is being preached by the communists. They want that all old man of the society, they should be killed. That is one of the theories put forward by the communists. Because they are not producing anything. So just imagine, these things will come gradually. So better to leave this place as soon as possible. Not to come again. That should be our serious attention. The other day the radio man was asking, "Swamiji, how to adjust?" "And there is no adjustment. You have to go out of the scene. There is no adjustment." So he was not very happy. If I would have bluffed him, "Oh, you do this, you do that, you do this humanitarian work, you spread(?) education and give foodstuff." No! There is no adjustment. The only adjustment is quit this place. That is the function of this human form of life. You can get out of this show by Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupada Comments on Prahlada Maharaja Slides - August 25, 1968, Montreal:

Prabhupāda: ...from where everything emanates. He is the source of all life. Whatever we see, it is in the Absolute Truth. All these universes, all these planets, all the suns and moons, the sky, and everything, they have come from the original source, the Absolute Truth. Now, in the material world we have got so many contradictions, but that contradiction is there also in the Absolute Truth. Just like fighting. Fighting is not a very good thing, but still, the fighting spirit is there in the Absolute Truth. Otherwise, how fighting can be exhibited? So the theory, nonviolence... Nonviolence is not absolute. Nonviolence and violence, everything is there in the Absolute Truth. But in the Absolute Truth, either nonviolence or violence, they are absolute. Here we have got bad effects of violence, but when violence is performed by the Absolute, it has no bad effect, it has good effect. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā. The Bhagavad-gītā is spoken in the battlefield, and Arjuna was denying to fight but Kṛṣṇa was asking him to fight. So the fighting was good because it was the will of the Absolute Personality of Godhead.

Room Conversation -- October 20, 1968, Seattle:

Jāhnavā: I've heard an analogy to that before.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So this material world is perverted reflection of the original energy. So this "Hare" means we are directly approaching the original energy of the Supreme Lord. "Please accept me, under You. Now I am under reflection. I am trying to get substance from the reflection." Suppose a tree is reflected by the bank of a river, the exact. So if somebody dives into the river and tries to take fruit from that tree, it will not be possible because that is reflection. One has to go to the real tree. So we are hankering after life, we are hankering after pleasure, but we are seeking pleasure in the reflection, māyā. Therefore we are frustrated, confused. Therefore this prayer is to the original energy. Without energy, without energy the Lord is not without energy. Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, Lakṣmī-Nārāyaṇa, Sītā-Rāma. So God is always with energy. Without energy, he is incomplete. Sun without sunshine is incomplete. Is it possible? Can one think of sun without sunshine? Similarly, the Māyāvāda theory that the absolute is without energy, there is no energy, absolute is... They have misunderstood. The energy is not different from the energetic. Just like sunshine is not different from the sun, neither the sunshine has got any existence without the sun, nor the sun can exist without sunshine. They are so intimately related. Similarly, the Lord and the energies are so intimately related, they cannot be separated, but they are not one. This is the whole philosophy.

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Journalist: So I just follow up on this very briefly. In other words, you feel that the western-oriented church, whether it be a synagogue or a church, has failed to present... Would you say that it's message is not relevant or that they have failed to present their message properly?

Prabhupāda: No. The thing is these western churches, just like Christianity, these gospels were spoken long, long ago to the primitive men, you see? Jerusalem. These people were living in desert, and they were not so much advanced. So at that time... Of course, in Bible or in the Old Testament, the idea of God is there, that is all nice. But they... Just like the statement, "God created this world." That is a fact. Now those people who are not advanced in those... Now, at the present moment, people are advanced scientifically. They want to know how the creation has taken place. You see? That explanation is not there, neither the church can give them. You see. Therefore they are not satisfied. Simply officially going to the church and offering prayer, that does not appeal to them. Besides that, practically, they do not follow religious principles. Just like in the Old Testament, there is, I mean to say, Ten Commandments, and there is Commandment that "Thou shall not kill." But killing affair is very prominent in the Christian world. They are maintaining slaughterhouse very regularly, and they have manufactured a theory that animals have no soul, they do not feel—because they have to kill. "Give the dog a bad name and hang it." Why animal cannot feel? Why you are committing these sinful activities? So the priestly class, they will not also say, they will not discuss, everyone is silent. That means deliberately, I mean to say, disobeying Ten Commandments. So where is religious principle? If you don't obey the commandments of your scripture does it mean that you are following a religion nicely? How you can kill which you cannot create? And it is plainly stated there, "Thou shall not kill." What is the answer? Why they are killing? What is the answer? How do you answer it?

Journalist: Are you asking me?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 13, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: People will take advantage of this up to ten thousand years. Then they will...

Allen Ginsberg: So this is like the last rope, the last gasp.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. So the sooner we take to shelter, shelter of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is better.

Allen Ginsberg: Well, then, according to Vedic theory, when did this yuga begin? According to this Vedic theory... Or... This is śāstra?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Allen Ginsberg: When did this yuga...?

Prabhupāda: Begin from this Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He introduced five hundred years ago, and it will continue now.

Hayagrīva: Kali-yuga.

Prabhupāda: Kali-yuga has begun five thousand years ago.

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

Prabhupāda: Oh, very glad to see you. Be happy and make all others happy. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Sarve sukhino bhavantu. That is Vedic idea. Everyone be happy. That is the benediction. Sarve sukhino bhavantu. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says also the same thing, that let this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement be preached in every village, in every town of the world. People will be happy. That is His foretelling. So any missions, any high ideals, should be preached just to make everyone happy. Because in the material existence, there is no happiness. That is a fact. There cannot be any happiness. This place is not meant for happiness because in the Bhagavad-gītā you'll find the Lord Himself says this is a place, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). It is a place of miseries, this material world. And aśāśvatam, and temporary. Everything is temporary. Even if you accept, "All right. Whatever miserable is there, I'll accept this," that is also, has no value. Even if you accept, nature will not allow you to accept it and remain there. Aśāśvatam. You have to leave. So Kṛṣṇa says, mām upetya kaunteya duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam nāpnuvanti mahātmānaḥ saṁsiddhiṁ paramāṁ gatāḥ: (BG 8.15) "If somebody comes to Me, then he hasn't got to return back to this miserable condition of life which is not only miserable but temporary." So we should understand that. Nature is so cruel. In America, President Kennedy, he was thought to be the most fortunate man, happy man, young man, was elected President, nice wife, children, honor all over the world—(snaps finger)—within a second, finished. Temporary. Now what is his condition? Where he is? If life is eternal, if living entity is eternal, where he has gone? What he is doing? Is he happy or he is distressed? Or he's born in America or China? Nobody can say. But it is a fact that as living entity, he's eternal, he's existing. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā philosophy. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). After destruction of this body the living entity is not destroyed. He is there. That we can understand. Just like in your childhood, you had a small body. That body is no more, but you are existing. So it is natural, when this body will not exist, I will exist in another body. It is not very difficult to understand. So this theory that body is eternal..., soul is eternal and body is temporary, that's a fact.

Discussion with BTG Staff -- December 24, 1969, Boston:

Hayagrīva: I cannot edit much faster than forty pages a day.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Don't do it, I mean to say, so hastily. But do it slowly and surely. That will be nice. Yes.

Brahmānanda: One book, one month.

Prabhupāda: No, that you are printing, that "one book, one month" for the last six months. (laughs) That is in theory only. Actually it has not happened. Now do everything solidly so that at least in two months we finish one book. That's all. Is that all right?

Jayadvaita: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You say everything all right. (laughter) Anyway...

Brahmānanda: Today, Pradyumna prabhu, you edited how many pages?

Pradyumna: I didn't edit so many today. I edited fifty yesterday.

Prabhupāda: So I think I want... I shall be very glad to see the Nectar of Devotion is finished before I leave this place and you begin some other book.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Guest (1): No, that is well proved. If there is need...

Prabhupāda: Yes. So our present fighting is atheism, against atheism. They say, "There is no God. God is dead. I am God. You are God." We are fighting against these principles. So our fighting is very strong. You don't think that we are keeping idly. I have come here to fight with these atheists, you see, and we go everywhere. We are fighting with atheists all over the world. So we are meeting so many opposing elements. You see? They say, "God is dead." In America, when I first went, they were popularizing theory that "God is dead." But they again accepted and: God is not dead, but He is here with Swamiji." They accepted. So these atheistic theories, that "Everyone is God," "I am God," "you are God," "God is dead," "there is no God," "God is not person"—we are fighting against these principles. We say, "God is Kṛṣṇa. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is Kṛṣṇa. He is a person, and He is not dead." This is our preaching. Therefore it is a fight.

Guest (1): He is not dead. He is not dead.

Prabhupāda: How He can be dead? How you can think of like that, that God is dead? That is foolishness.

Guest (1): If you say God is dead, that means you are... that is your own ignorance.

Prabhupāda: So we are fighting against this ignorance, so many ignorance. And at the present moment so many theories and religious principles have sprung up unnecessarily. You see? But we are sticking to the principle that the only religion is to surrender unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is real religion: surrender.

Room Conversation -- December 13, 1970, Indore:

Himāvatī: In that same connection, the story of Ṭhākura Haridāsa and the harlot. She began to chant and told him the reason that she was a prostitute, she was no good and simply by that association she began to chant or by previous association...

Prabhupāda: No, by association. By the influence of Haridāsa Ṭhākura. For three days, three days she associated.

Himāvatī: But Professor Sanyal was putting forward his theory that in previous lives she had had association; therefore she began to chant.

Prabhupāda: Why previous lives? That's not very good reason.

Himāvatī: Subconscious, that she had subconsciously remembered.

Prabhupāda: No, no. No, no. That is not.

Himāvatī: In one of the Back to Godhead magazines

Prabhupāda: That is not. He advocates that.(?) Direct association with Haridāsa Ṭhākura. Why previously?

Himāvatī: We want to say that previously she had done some chanting.

Prabhupāda: We don't find any such thing. Professor Sanyal was not very much advanced. He committed so many blunders.

Room Conversation -- December 21, 1970, Surat:

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Just try to understand this philosophy. If when I see practically my father has got head, his father has got head, his father has got head, head, head, head... Go on. And the ultimate father, why he has no head? What this poor person, gentleman, has done that he has no head? (laughter) This is... This nonsense theory is going on, that "God has no head. God has no legs. God has no hand." Imperson means He has no head, no leg, no... That means... And somebody says, "He is dead," and "void."

Revatinandana: They're trying to kill Kṛṣṇa. They're trying to kill Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: That's all. That is their business. Rākṣasa, asura, miscreants, rogues, fools, rascals—that is their business. Envious. Because they are... If I say that "You have no eyes," that means indirectly I say that "You are blind." If I say that "You have no leg," indirectly I say, "You are lame." In this way, when I deny your senses, that means I am calling God by ill names that "You are blind. You are lame. You are headless. You are rascal," like that. And that is their prayer. Calling God by ill names, that is their prayer. What do you think, Girirāja?

Girirāja: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: One respectable pleader in Allahabad, I said, "Why you are eating this?" We also find that he's a very religious man. So I inquired. He was just like our father; still, I inquired. He said, "No, what is the wrong there? Nārāyaṇa, Brahman. So one Brahman is going into the belly of another Brahman, Brahman being absorbed, brahmeti." So they have got so dangerous theory. But still, we shall not hesitate to kick on their face but because they are making a propaganda, it should be peaceful. But I become very much agitated with this nonsense because I know they are creating havoc. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Come on. (door closes) So many rascals. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa...

Haṁsadūta: So yesterday we went to that place, that swami with the silver glasses and black beard that always gives his respect to you.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Haṁsadūta: Well, he has become head swami of this temple, very big, very nice place.

Prabhupāda: Very nice place?

Haṁsadūta: Yes. Hodgepodge but very...

Prabhupāda: They have.

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Still, they are not closed.

Guest (1): Closed... Today they are coming to that.

Prabhupāda: That is another theory. But the process is, our Vedic process, tad-vijñānārtham sa gurum eva abhigacchet: (MU 1.2.12) "In order to understand tat knowledge one must approach a spiritual master." Gacchet. If you don't accept these principles, then how you can make progress? Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsur śreya uttamam (SB 11.3.21). If you don't accept this principle, there is no possibility. Then you can go on thinking in your own way. There is no question of going to anyone. You make yourself perfect by thinking, as many others are doing, speculating. That is possible but never to the perfectional point.

Guest (1): Perfectly, you see... What is the category of different perfection?

Prabhupāda: That you have to learn. That you have to learn.

Guest (1): No, no, learn from whom?

Prabhupāda: From the higher authority.

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Guest (3): It will always be there.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is already there but when you see, you see, you see that it is birth. The sunrise is already somewhere, and the sunset is also already somewhere but in your angle of vision there is no sun. That is going on. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa's birth, every moment; Kṛṣṇa's disappearance, every moment; Kṛṣṇa's existence, every moment. You have to learn that. Therefore Kṛṣṇa said, janma karma me divyam (BG 4.9), transcendental. Yo janati tattvataḥ. Anyone who knows it perfectly, in truth, he becomes liberated. If you have known Kṛṣṇa, then you are liberated. But Kṛṣṇa knowing is not so easy. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye yatatām api siddhānāṁ kaścid vetti māṁ tattvataḥ (BG 7.3). It is very difficult to understand Kṛṣṇa in truth. Then how one can understand? That is also stated: bhaktyā mām abhijānāti yāvān yaś cāsmi tattvataḥ (BG 18.55). Not by speculation of knowledge. Bhaktya. And what is that bhakti? Anyābhilaṣita-śunyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam, ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlānaṁ bhaktir uttama (CC Madhya 19.167)(Brs. 1.1.11). So these things you have to learn. Then there is possibility of knowledge, tad-vijñāna. The difficulty is at the present moment the theory that everyone can invent his way of understanding God. He can speculate. Therefore there is chaos. There is chaos. If you want to save yourself from this chaotic condition of life you must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is our proposal. Give me that knife. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Not so many. Begin. Aiye. (break) ...friend of Kṛṣṇa. How much exalted he is, a great warrior, and he has the right to talk with Kṛṣṇa on equal level. Still, he accepted Kṛṣṇa as spiritual master. And he said, "The confusion which I have created, it is not possible for me to clear it. It is You only who can clear, I know. Therefore I accept You as spiritual master." Therefore it is required that one should know who can clear your confusion, and there you must surrender. (aside:) Anyone? Everyone. Come on. Not in the left hand. Don't give anything by left hand; don't take anything. That is a etiquette. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Yes. Yes.

Discussion with Indians -- January 18, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: That's all... That we understand very nicely. It is not that I have to learn from you. We know it very well. But you should know that we are preaching Bhagavad-gītā. So this jyotir-liṅga, all these theories, they are not in the Bhagavad-gītā. It may be in other literature, but we are particularly interested in preaching Bhagavad-gītā. Because Bhagavad-gītā is wrongly preached all over the world by nonsense commentation, we want to rectify it. Therefore our society is specially named "Krishna conscious."

Guest (1): What is wrongly preached about Gītā?

Prabhupāda: Wrong... Just like yesterday I went that Gītā Samītī. There is a lamp. Why there is a lamp instead of Kṛṣṇa? Why there is a lamp? Kṛṣṇa is a lamp? And it is Bhagavad...

Guest (1): I don't know...

Prabhupāda: You do not know. Therefore I say this is wrongly preaching. Why in the place of Kṛṣṇa there is a lamp? Does Kṛṣṇa say?

Guest (1): Lamp has been with us for more than... In our mandira...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. (Hindi?) Kṛṣṇa is also there.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: But Jesus Christ never said that He is God. He said "Son of God." We have no objection to chant the name, holy name of Jesus Christ. We have no objection. But we are preaching that "Chant the holy name of God." If you haven't got any name of God, then you chant our conception of name of God, Kṛṣṇa. We don't say Kṛṣṇa.

nāmnām akāri bahudhā nija-sarva-śaktis
tatrārpitā niyamitaḥ smaraṇe na kālaḥ
etādṛśī tava kṛpā bhagavān mamāpi
durdaivam īdṛśam ihājani nānurāgaḥ

Lord Caitanya says, in each and every name of God... There are many names of God. But in each and every name of God, the full potency of God is there. So... And there is no hard and fast rule for chanting the holy name of God. Anywhere, at anytime, anyone, in any circumstances, he can chant. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says "My Lord, You are so merciful that in this age..." Why...? Not in this age. Every age. "You are always in full potency in Your name. And I can associate with You simply by chanting Your holy name. But I am so unfortunate, I have no attraction for that." A simple thing, to chant the name. God has become so kind, "You simply chant My name." But I am so unfortunate, I have no attraction for that. Now, these people are being taught... They have got this bead bag. I have also got. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare. Now where is the loss? If I chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, where is the loss? And where is the want of time? They are walking on the street, Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare. I am sitting here, and now I'm talking with you. As soon as I finish talking, I shall chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. So where is the difficulty? But ask people to chant the holy name of God, he won't accept. Unfortunate. And such simple thing. He hasn't got to go to church, to temple, or to go to hell or heaven. In whatever condition he is, he can chant holy name of God. But they're so unfortunate, they won't accept this theory. Etādṛśī tava kṛpā. "So God is so merciful, but I am so unfortunate that I cannot chant His holy name." There is no charges, there is no fee, there is no loss. If there is some gain, why not try for it? And the gain is there. That you practically see. Because these boys from Europe, America, and other places, they were... I do not wish to discuss. (laughter) But just see the process now. Not the process one has... Other has to calculate. Then calculate, then serve. Yes. There is so much profit.

Room Conversation -- August 25, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: They'll like. Enough ingredients to preach. Simply one has to become intelligent how to express. The, what is called, outlines of thought are already there. You read one line, you can speak half an hour. They are so full of meaning. Provided you can express the meanings. So we are not reading all the lines. We are going quickly from one śloka to another. Otherwise, if we explained each line of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam... Just like my Guru Mahārāja explained the first śloka for three months in Dacca. (break) ...after this verse, he explained for three months. Caitanya Mahāprabhu explained ātmārāma-śloka in sixty-four ways. That is described in Teachings of Lord Caitanya. Sixty-four ways. Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya explained in nine ways. He did not touch on those nine ways. Setting aside those nine ways, personally He explained in sixty-four ways. Formerly such scholars were there, such religious persons were there. Therefore people were happy. What these rascals speak? Now there is Freud's philosophy and Darwin's theory.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: The seed. Yes seed. The seed is described in the Bhagavad-gītā: bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10). Everything that is living, the root or the seed (indistinct). The seed is God. Bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām. Just like the rose tree, it has got a seed, but wherefrom this seed comes? (guests entering room) Come on. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Give him another... Seed, original seed is God. Your theory of seed is very nice but the original seed of everything is God, the cause of all causes. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said,

īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ
sac-cid-ānanda vigrahaḥ
anādir ādir govindaḥ
sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam
(Bs. 5.1)

Kāraṇam. Kāraṇa means cause, cause of all causes, seed of all seeds. There are different seeds.

Dr. Weir: Causa causam. (Latin)

Prabhupāda: Ah, cause of all causes.

Devotee: Is that Latin?

Dr. Weir: Yes.

Devotee: It's similar.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Dr. Weir: A Latin legal phrase: causa causam, the cause of the cause.

Prabhupāda: So God is cause of all causes.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Dr. Weir: You can build any theory according to the number of postulates you're willing to accept which cannot be analyzed, including the basis of science, the atom, as originally thought of by Theocritus and others is the thing that you cannot go beyond and count down farther in playing with your philosophy or your theology that you go down until you can find nothing, except that you say that causa causam and then you build back again from that. But that's what I was saying earlier on, the Kṛṣṇa is very close to the Unitarian position in Christianity.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Weir: Far more acceptable to every type of Christian than any of the specific creeds or sects, you know, the Church of England, Anglicans, Roman Catholics, every other form of prophecy. And you have that greater universality. (indistinct) And you've got Tibetans (who) will accept your places in the same way as a westerner could.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Dr. Weir: A Tibetan could accept your position.

Prabhupāda: Tiberian? Tibetians? What is their philosophy?

Dr. Weir: You've heard of the Dalai Lama?

Prabhupāda: Yes. What does he say?

Dr. Weir: Well, his position would be the same as yours. Wouldn't it? In religion?

Mensa Member: You mean the Tibetan Buddhist attitude about the Godhead is the same as the Kṛṣṇas?

Dr. Weir: Yes. They have that same basis.

Prabhupāda: But so far we know that Buddhists they do not believe in God, existence of God.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: So far I remember, I was also a student of philosophy, Dr. Urquhart, he said the philosophy is science of sciences. The science, there, I mean theory, begins from philosophy. Philosophy is the science of sciences. But according to Vedic verses, a philosopher is not a philosopher if he has not a different opinion from another philosopher, nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na... Therefore, through the philosopher you cannot come to the right conclusion. Tarkeṇa aprāptaś ca. If you simply go on arguing that will also not help you. If you simply read scriptures that will also not help you. Because there are different scriptures. Bible is different from Vedas and Vedas is different from Koran. So tarka... by argument you cannot come to the conclusion, by simply reading scriptures you cannot come to the conclusion. By following the philosophers you cannot come to the conclusion. Therefore the truth is very confidential. Dharmasyārtha... guhyam. It is kept very confidential. Then how to have it? Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). You have to follow the great personalities who have actually realized God. That is the conclusion.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Śyāmasundara: The Buddhist thinks that everyone is God.

Prabhupāda: In Buddhist theory there is no acceptance of God. There is simply to diminish, or to nullify the sense of pains and pleasures. That is called nirvāṇa.

Dr. Weir: The atheist is the person who worries most about God. I mean, he really... God must exist but he tries to deny it all. Rather like, I had a lecturer at Oxford who wasn't interested in women. He was a misogynist. He talked, you know (indistinct) and he spent all his time telling you he wasn't interested in women. He thought about nothing but women and the fact that he wasn't interested in them. His lectures were full of it. It was pathetic.

Śyāmasundara: Just like Kaṁsa!

Prabhupāda: Hiraṇyakaśipu. Gold and women.

Room Conversation -- November 11, 1971, New Delhi:

Guest (1): Swami Akhandananda, I see, but yes, in Birla temple.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Birla temple is speaking that Kṛṣṇa is kalpanā.

Guest (2): Kalpanā.

Prabhupāda: Yes, kalpanā. Māyāvādī theory is brahma nirākāra, so... (Hindi) You can imagine that God is so insignificant that you can imagine His form. This dangerous theory is going on in India. God is so insignificant that you can imagine at your whims whatever you like. Ramakrishna Mission is also preaching this, and now this big, big sannyāsī, they also preaching this. God is a subject matter for, of my imagination, He is so insignificant. You have seen the paper?

Guest (1): No. I haven't read this particular statement.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Rayananda(?), can you get that paper, Hindustan?

Guest: Quite surprising. He's quite a learned scholar.

Prabhupāda: The learned scholar, they have been described in Bhagavad-gītā, māyaya apahṛta-jñānā asurī-bhāvam āśritāḥ. Because they have taken this view that God is impersonal, He has no form, this is āsurī. Then māyaya apahṛta-jñānā. Therefore, however learned they may be, māyā takes away their knowledge. Māyaya apahṛta-jñānā asurī-bhāvam āśr... That is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. (Hindi) The Absolute Truth, that is subjected to be imagined by me. I am a tiny soul. And if a learned sannyāsī says like that, how many thousands of people will believe in that, will be wrongly impressed? This paper will be read by thousands and millions. (Hindi) ...hodge-podge.

Room Conversation -- November 11, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: (referring to paper) (Hindi) What is the heading?

Guest: This one? (reads in Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Guest: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: To imagine. By imagination one is going to tattva-vit, Absolute Truth. Just see the theory. By imagination you have to reach the tattva-vit. Tattva means Absolute Truth, reality, and that is subjected to man's imagination.

Guest: It seems, Swamiji, this is the headline which is not a Akhandananda's statement. Only the reporter has put up the headline.

Prabhupāda: But people will read as Akhandananda's...

Guest: Yes, sir.

Guest (2): Why don't you read the whole matter? Śrīla Prabhupāda says, he says, and he says it very wrongly, that (indistinct). You read the whole matter,. The summary of the whole matter is the same. This is very wrong.

Prabhupāda: Vasudeva, you just, you can read the whole thing. It is imagination. Tattva... (break) ...imagine yourself, that "My lover will be like this, like this, like that." In this way he will reach to the reality. Do you think it is very nice argument?

Room Conversation -- November 11, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: What is the nonsense scholar (laughter) if he does not know the truth? (Hindi) Māyaya apahṛta-jñānā. Scholar maybe superficially, but real knowledge is taken away by māyā. Caitanya Mahāprabhu (Hindi) māyāvādi-bhāṣya śunile haya sarva-nāśa (CC Madhya 6.169). If people hear him, then for good he will be lost in bewilderedness. (Hindi conversation) Why do you think you are sinner? (Hindi) Our theory is not that. Kṛṣṇa is fighting, He is inducing fight against irreligiosity.

Guest: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). "There is no higher reality than Me." Are we imaginists? Kṛṣṇa says that mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). "There is nothing," I mean, "as higher reality that Me." And these people are taking Him as mūrta-vigrahaḥ, kalpanā. (Hindi)

Guest: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: No. Why this word kalpanā is there? That is, that is my point. Kalpanā means something false imagination. Kalpanā is not reality, and Kṛṣṇa says that "There is no higher reality than Me." And He became the subject matter of my kalpanā.

Room Conversation -- December 11, 1971, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Therefore it should be concluded that the so-called scientists, astronomers, they are all imperfect, and they are passing off the scientists as learned. So you can challenge them, "What is the guarantee that your knowledge is perfect?" Actually it is not. They do not know how the stars are moving. They are always imperfect. Simply putting some theories. They say all this, Darwin's theory and this theory, that theory. They are simply speculating on imperfect senses, and therefore they're cheating, because the conditioned soul has got a tendency to cheat others. If one can cheat others, he thinks himself as very intelligent. The conditioned souls, they commit mistake, they are illusioned, they cheat, and their senses are imperfect. This is the, the four condition. Therefore, if we receive knowledge from the conditioned soul, there is no possibility of getting perfect knowledge. If by nature you are cheater, then how I can expect fair dealings? It is to be understood that we cannot have any fair dealings with this conditioned soul. And he'll protest.

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1971, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: You take grains, just like paddy or wheat. These plants, after producing the fruit, the grain, automatically they die. You are not killing. So, those who are taking fruits, vegetable, grains, they are not actually killing. You take the milk... What is milk? Milk is transformation of the blood. So, cow's milk means cow's blood, but still the cow is not killed. Cow's blood is nutritious, accepting this theory. Karnish (?), karnish it is called? Cow's blood? What is the meaning of karnish (?)? But by nature's way she is delivering you the blood which is nutritious—according to your science—but why you should kill her? So any circumstances, the direct killing is not approved by any śāstra, any religion. Jīva hiṁsā. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also says, niṣiddhācāra jīva-hiṁsā. So, jiva hiṁsā, violence upon other animals, that is against Vaiṣṇava principle. You cannot be violent, you cannot kill.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation Including Discussion on SB 4.13.48 to SB 4.14.11 -- January 18, 1972, Jaipur:

Prabhupāda: Somebody must be there. So monkeys, they are now taking advantage, that these people have got some eatables. Therefore, Darwin's theory is from monkey. That's a fact. From the monkey, cow, and lion, the next birth is human life. So vimṛśya loka-vyasanaṁ kṛpaya ucuḥ sma satriṇaḥ, they began to discuss how to mitigate the troubles of the people. They began to discuss that aho ubhayataḥ prāptaṁ lokasya vyasanaṁ mahat. People, they are now disturbed both ways. One way, the king is a rascal. Another way is that taking advantage of the bad king, the thieves and rogues, they are also very powerful. So just see how the saintly persons became compassionate to the people that they are both ways. Actually at the present moment, people are disturbed by unnecessary taxes, at the same time bad elements. So without proper king, without nice state, everyone is unhappy. And that is going on nowadays. In the Kali-yuga, it will go on continual, and more and more people will be unhappy.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Then he's an animal. The animal does not know what is God. A person who does not know what is God or one who does not try to understand what is God, he's animal. The animals are with four legs, and that animal is with two legs. And Darwin's theory is they are monkeys. So anyone who does not know God or does not try to understand God, he's nothing but animal.

Bob: What about the people in the...the innocent people?

Prabhupāda: The animal is very innocent. You cut its throat, it won't protest. So innocent is not very good qualification. The animals are all innocent. Therefore you get the chance of cutting their throat. So just... To become innocent is not a very good qualification. Our proposition is one must be very, very intelligent, and then he can understand Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa yei bhaje se baḍa catura. So to become innocent, ignorant, simpleton is not very good qualification. Simplicity is all right, but one should not be unintelligent.

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Just like a gang of thieves gives a signboard, "Goodman and Company." A gang of thieves are giving signboard, "Goodman and Company." You sometimes find such signboard.

Śyāmasundara: Our landlord in San Francisco temple, his name was Goodman.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Their philosophy is that the animal, when it is not properly nourished that is cruelty. Therefore instead of allowing to starve, better kill him. Like that, theory. Is it not?

Bob: Yes.

Prabhupāda: They say, "Oh, it is better to kill him than to give him so much..." That theory is coming in communist country. That an old man, grandfather, is suffering. Better kill him. And there, in Africa, there is a class of nation they eat, make a festival, by killing great-grandfather and grandfather. Is it not? Yes.

Śyāmasundara: They eat them?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Huh?

Pañcadraviḍa: I had an uncle and aunt. They were in the army so when they went overseas, they could not take their dog with them. So they said, "The poor dog, he will be so heartbroken not to be with us," that they had him put to sleep. They killed.

Prabhupāda: In Gandhi's life also, he once killed one calf or some cow. It was suffering very much. So Gandhi ordered that "Instead of suffering, just kill him."

Room Conversation with Gaurachand Gosvami At the Radha-Damodara Temple (Mostly Bengali) -- March 11, 1972, Vrndavana:

Indian man (2): Kṛṣṇa Caitanya dāsa.

Prabhupāda: No, what he is, is he professor or what?

Indian man (2): No, he's not a professor. He's just a sadak(?), you see, interested in reading and writing.

Guru dāsa: So if he will put the name on any foreword, then he can also create any theory. If that man did not give the foreword and he has put the name, he will create any theory.

Indian man (2): Yes, of course, that's what he is up to, that's what he is up to.

Guru dāsa: And if someone doubts that, then they're not strong followers of Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

Indian man (2): Yes. That is a great thing against him.

Guru dāsa: How can you doubt the authority?

Indian man (2): I think he has got certain preconceptions in his mind and, you see, he just tries to prove them by collecting all sorts of data that will just fit into his point of view.

Prabhupāda: Just like Gandhi wanted to prove nonviolence from Gītā.

Room Conversation -- March 12, 1972, Vrndavana:

Dr. Kapoor: Otherwise they would not be scholars.

Prabhupāda: No. Otherwise they will not be scholars.

Guru dāsa: At any rate, where it came from is...

Prabhupāda: Because according to Darwin's theory, your forefather was monkey. So their theory is that long before there were monkeys only. How such high philosophical thoughts could come?

Dr. Kapoor: It is true that in England there were only monkeys there. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: On this theory, all their philosophy is going on. So if they give credit that Indians were so high scholars and philosophers, then the whole theory is spoiled. Because brain is developing, and the background of brain was monkey. So how such philosophical highly moral scholarly work can be done? And this is going on. If Bhāgavata is accepted as we accept that five thousand years ago it was written, then their whole civilization becomes topsy-turvy.

Dr. Kapoor: About the Bhāgavata also he says that there is the mention of Buddha in Bhāgavata and many descendants of Buddha who lived...

Prabhupāda: The Buddhists, they don't accept that verse. Kīkaṭeṣu bhaviṣyati, buddho nāmnāñjana-sutaḥ. They do not accept. About Buddha, in Hindu literature, Vedic literature, there is mention, bhaviśyati, feature(?). That is insult to them. Therefore, they do not accept this verse. Neither we say Buddha is incarnation of God. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra. They do not accept this. They think it is insult.

Room Conversation with Dai Nippon -- April 22, 1972, Tokyo:

Prabhupāda: ..."Necessity and Chance"?

Pradyumna: "Chance and Necessity."

Prabhupāda: That is whole theory of the atheist class men. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Aparaspara... Aparaspara... Just like one man and woman unites all of a sudden and there is pregnancy. This is chance.

Pradyumna: By sex desire alone the world is created by...

Prabhupāda: Sex. Yes. Kim anyat kāma-haitukam. Kim anyat kāma-haitukam: "Except sex desire, where is the other cause of creation?" That is atheistic theory. Kim anyat kāma-haitukam. So all of a sudden two opposite parties become sexually inclined, and by chance there is pregnancy and there is production. This is their theory. There is no plan. It is like this. Because they are creating like that, there is no plan. Then why there is...? Therefore they say, "It is legalized prostitution, marriage. There is no need of marriage."

Pradyumna: Oh.

Prabhupāda: "Why should we go under legal?"

Room Conversation with Dai Nippon -- April 22, 1972, Tokyo:

Prabhupāda: This is... This is their atheistic theory. But our Vedic civilization is putrārthe kriyate bhārya putra-piṇḍa-prayojanam. Prayojanam. Piṇḍa, piṇḍa-dāna, offering piṇḍa by the son, is necessity, puṇyena narakāt trāyate, because the son delivers the forefathers from the hellish condition of life. There are so many plans, and they say, "Oh, there is no plan." Ignorance. We say that there is necessity of a putra, or a son. Therefore to have a son, a wife is necessary. Therefore wife is accepted. This is a plan. But they say that it is... "Whenever you feel, just like cats and dogs, sexually inclined, have sex." That's all. Where is plan? This is difference between atheist and theist. They have no plan. Sex desire is necessity of the body we have, and all of a sudden there is pregnancy. Avoid. Try to avoid pregnancy by contraceptive. Or if it takes place by chance, that's all right. There is no question of plan. These rubbish theories are going on and they are getting Nobel Prize. They are educated. They are philosopher. John Lennon is a philosopher. You see? This is going on. Ginsberg is a big man. George Harrison is a big man. You see? Eraṇḍāpi dhūmyate(?). When there is no tree, that, what is called? Castor tree, castor. Eraṇḍa. It doesn't become higher than this. "Oh, here is a big tree. Here is a big tree." Where there is no tree, that tree is big tree. So when the world is finished of all intelligent men, George Harrison is big man, that Ginsberg is big man, John Lennon is big man. According to Vedic civilization they are fourth-class men. This dramatic art was being done by a professional fourth-class man. Nāṭaka, māgadha. Just like Kṛṣṇa was taking bath with His friends, and there were some professional musicians. They were playing music. And after taking bath, all the clothes were given to them.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1972, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Jalajā nava-lakṣāni sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. And 2,000,000 of leaves and plants, botany, botanical. Jalajā nava-lakṣāni sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati, kṛmayo rudra-saṅkhyakāḥ. Insects, there are 1,100,000 forms. (Sanskrit) Then (Sanskrit). From insect, they become flies and birds. (Sanskrit) One million. Then from birds, the beasts come, four-legged. (Sanskrit). Three million species of beasts. Then from beasts, the human form comes—either from monkey or from lion or from cows. Out of these three, sattva-guṇa, rajo-guṇa, tamo-guṇa. Those who are coming through rajo-guṇa, their last birth before human form of birth is lion. And those who are coming in the form ignorance, Darwin's father-in-law, (laughs) monkey, and ignorance. And those who are coming in goodness, their last form of birth is cow. So this is our scientific information from the Vedas. We haven't got to make research. Everything is there. That is Vedic knowledge. They have got already everything written there. The astronomy, everything is written there; simply you have to calculate. Astrology, we say simply mathematical calculation. If the moon is in this position and the other stars is in this position, the effect will be like this and the result will be like this. Like that. So you haven't got to make search or research. It is already there. Similarly, this Darwin's theory is there in two lines. (Sanskrit) Asati, asati means eighty. Catura means four, eighty and four lakṣāṇi, lakhs, 400,000. Eighty-four hundred thousand, that means eighty million, four hundred thousand. (Sanskrit) Jīva means living entity; jāti means species. Jīva-jātiṣu, brahmadbhiḥ. The living entity is wandering or transmigrating from aquatics to trees, plants, then insect, then birds, then beasts. In this way the last is human form of life. Brahmadbhiḥ, brahmadbhiḥ, wandering. (Sanskrit), last he is getting (Sanskrit), by the evolution of birth. Now this form is for understanding Govinda, God. The other forms, they cannot. So if in this form the living entity does not contact Govinda... Contacting Govinda means surrendering unto Govinda. As Kṛṣṇa says, "Surrender unto Me." Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). So after many, many, many millions of births, when one is actually in full knowledge, he surrenders to Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection. Then he goes back to home, back to Godhead. That is our program, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation -- May 4, 1972, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Helium gas. So that helium gas has entered within the balloon and it is floating. (laughter) So if the helium gas can float, cannot God float? If helium gas has so much power, God is less than helium gas or He is more than helium gas? So what is the difficulty to understand? God says, "I enter." So similarly, the helium gas enters and it makes possible that it floats. So what is the difficulty to understand? I see in my eyes. So He can become big helium gas. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, raso 'ham apsu kaunteya: (BG 7.8) "I am the taste of the water." Water is important. We are drinking water for the taste. That taste is Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, if you explain this law of gravitation, which we have discovered, is Kṛṣṇa, prove it by your scientific knowledge, that will be your service. Actually that is a fact. That is the fact. But you have to explain, just like I have given you this example. This is scientific. As you can float a balloon by creating helium gas, so there must be some gas like that; Kṛṣṇa enters into each and every planet or universe and it floats, that's all. They, not only the planets are floating, the universes are also floating. So you accept this theory or not? If not, clearly explain.

Conversation with the GBC -- May 25, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: It is not the question I believe and don't believe, it is a fact. God is there—you believe or not believe—but God must be there. Your believing, not believing, it doesn't matter. If I don't believe there is no president, it does not mean there will be no president. There must be president. I do not know who is president. (indistinct) So people are in misconception that there is no God, God is dead, I am God, you are God, God is not person, so many God theories. But we have no theory, we have got a positive presentation, "Here is God." With that conviction we have to push on. So you must be prepared in that way. There will be so many questions, so many opposing elements. You have to face them by your arguments, by your knowledge. This is required. At least we must have faith in that way. We have to push on. This is the fact. We are Brahmā sampradāya, Lord Brahmā's sampradāya. So, Brahmā sampradāya, Lord Brahmā is giving. Just like last evening we were reading about Brahmā's thought. He is posing, "Yes, here is, You are God." Although He was child, "He appears to be a child, but You are God." That is Brahmā (indistinct). He is giving support on that point. So if you follow Brahmā then there is no question, here is God. And he writes in his saṁhitā,

isvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ
sat-cid-ānanda vigrahaḥ
anādir ādir govindaḥ
sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam
(Bs. 5.1)

Here is the God. And Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8). Mattaḥ parataraṁ nasti. (indistinct). "There is no more superior truth than Me, I am the origin of everthing." Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate. Everything comes from Him. The Vedānta says, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), so Absolute Truth is there, which is the original source of everything." So, Kṛṣṇa says, "I am the original source of everything." The Vedānta says the Absolute Truth means the original source of everything. Brahmā confirms it and you must also understand (indistinct). So you must spread your conviction by your literature, by your argument, by your preaching, by facing opposing elements. That is the process.

Conversation Excerpt -- June 21, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: All the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Lord Caitanya, all of them become nullified and this rascal comes forward to defy all the ācāryas and push some new theory. Just see. This is going on. (Sanskrit) In the Varāha Purāṇa it is stated that some of the rākṣasas, they will take advantage of Kali-yuga and take birth in brāhmaṇa families, so he is one of them, this rākṣasa. And now he is suffering for that. Greatest calamity, you see? And according to Vedic injunction, the king if he levies tax from the subjects who are sinful, then he has to partake of the sinful action and he'll have to suffer. So, this rascal became the president of India, it is the position of king and on the (indistinct) of him he supported the slaughterhouses and levied taxes and he took high salary, enjoyed it. Now he is suffering the effect, sinful effect. Now in his living condition he has lost his brain. He, practically dead but living condition, it is very precarious condition. One is living actually but his brain is not acting, worse than a madman. So, this is the result of the rākṣasa statement. Yes, go on. (end)

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Why the scientists cannot make it straight?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Ideality is assumed in many scientific theories.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Ideality of certain laws of certain matter, they assume it.

Prabhupāda: Are they not utopian?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they take it as facts. For example...

Prabhupāda: So you take it your things as fact, we take our fact. Why do you say my things utopian, yours fact? Similarly, I can say my fact, your utopian.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: For example, in chemical elements, the elements like helium, neon, argon, these are called inert gasses, these are called ideal gasses, because they behave ideally under the assumptions of scientific theories. It fits perfectly well to their theory, so they call these gasses ideal gasses. And gasses like oxygen, hydrogen, and nitrogen, these are nonideal gasses because they do not behave properly like helium or neon. So the (indistinct), first they develop the theory from these ideal gasses, and then when the theory doesn't fit to the gasses, like hydrogen and oxygen, they modify it. So they call these are nonideal gasses. So accordingly the theory is modified. They put certain numbers to adjust their modifications. So in all..., most scientific theories, they develop something that is called ideal; and from that ideality, they extrapolate these so-called other theories. That is almost in all scientific theories.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...planet, Vaikuṇṭha planet, and Kṛṣṇa comes to show us the ideal place in Vṛndāvana. The sample Vṛndāvana is here. So why do you say it is utopian?

Jayatīrtha: (indistinct) ideal. The material world isn't very ideal.

Prabhupāda: That is the imitation of the ideal.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Same thing when they discovered atomic bomb, they did not know what's going to happen. This Einstein proposed the equation that a small mass can be converted to a tremendous amount of energy, like his equation that energy is equal to the mass times the square of the velocity of light. So he from his theory found that this is happening, this is a physical law. So if we have a small amount of mass, and if we subject to this equation, then there will be a tremendous amount of energy. But later on it happened that they used the knowledge in the wrong direction. So many people got killed. And at the moment, the so-called genetic engineering...

Prabhupāda: That also they do not understand properly, because they do not see the spiritual energy. Just like we know that within this body there is a small bit of spiritual energy, spark, which is ten thousand part of the tip of the hair. How small it is. But due to its presence within the body, the body is working so nicely. We know that, that how a small particle of spiritual energy can work so wonderfully. They do not know it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So nowadays the scientists are also thinking that there have been so many mistakes, so...

Prabhupāda: They will find out.

Morning Walk Conversation -- September 28, 1972, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They cannot go because according to Vedic description, moon is a planet for demigods. So they have got better brain. So they saw that "These rascals are coming here. All right, let them go to desert side." They have got their machine also. If they have got better brain, they can divert you. Why not think in that way? Their theory is that all other planets there is no life. Only this planet is favored by God, there is life. We say even in the sun planet there is life. (break) (indistinct) Here is your transport(?). We are trying to send back to home, back to Godhead. This is real transport.

Jayatīrtha: If you're going to travel, you should go to a worthwhile place. There's no reason to waste time.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) the outer space, but they do not know where to go.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: These scientists, they are trying to travel in the outer space, but they do not know where to go.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, that's a fact. They are just wandering in the wild.

Prabhupāda: That's all. (indistinct) beyond the sky there is another sky (indistinct) and we are trying to go there according to the perfect knowledge (indistinct). (break) ...of knowledge is misunderstanding, so how they can get perfect knowledge? If you begin from mistake, misconception, then where is your perfect knowledge? The beginning is this body. Beyond this body, they have no knowledge. Their rascal knowledge..., this rascal knowledge, how they can help you? Anything, suppose any mathematical calculation, if the beginning is wrong, then how you will come to the right conclusion? What do you think?

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So, if there is no question of independence, then how, abruptly, he can begin from a certain species? You must explain wherefrom this species came into existence. Harer nāma harer nāma...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There are so many books on Darwin's theory. Goes... In the library, if one goes there are hundreds of volumes of books on Darwin's theory.

Prabhupāda: They have accepted or protested?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Mostly they accept and there are some who are also very critical, what they're, what he's saying is really (indistinct) But those are very few. Mostly, most books are supporting.

Karandhara: Recently, there was an issue that some people wanted that the theory that God created the earth and the species to be taught in schools along with Darwin's theory.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Karandhara: But the, it was defeated because the scientists said: "If we make such a statement in our schools, everyone will take us as fools."

Prabhupāda: What is that? I could not follow. Eh?

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Where it is coming now? It came in the past and not in the now, and not at present? Wherefrom an ant is coming from this dust. Is there any proof? Even an ant does not come.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In fact, there are several theories like that, about the origin of life. And they say starting from matter, all the living matters came from nonliving.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Why it is not coming now, rascal? I kick on your face with boots. Why it is not coming now?

Karandhara: If it happened before, it should happen now.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And it is so amazing that people believe it.

Prabhupāda: That means fools.

Brahmā: The blind leading the blind.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). All rascals, mūḍhāḥ. Our simple formula is: Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he's a rascal. Never mind what he is. We immediately reject him, a rascal. Our simple formula. And actually they're rascals. They're talking like rascals, childish, that life came from matter. Prove it. That future. What is this? I am very rich man. And as soon as I ask you: "Give me some money." "Oh, yes, I'll give you in future." What is this?

Devotee: Bluff.

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: In the past, you say, in the past the life came out of matter. Why you again say in the future? What is this theory? You have already committed that the life began from matter. That is past, "began." Then why you say now again "future?" Then where is the beginning? Eh? Why this contradiction? If life began from matter, that is past. That is in the past. Then why do you say again future? What is the answer? Is it not contradiction?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah. That misses the whole point.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is whole, wholesale nonsense, wholesale nonsense. You are expecting the fact in the future, still you say it began in the past. Just see the contradiction.

Devotee: Yes. (Someone hits golf ball.)

Golfers: Fore, fore!

Prabhupāda: So contradiction means childish. Contradiction is not scientist. Contradiction is childish.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They started from a point where...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They started from a point where there's no background. There's no...

Prabhupāda: No background. That is another thing. And still, they cannot prove it at present. They're expecting to prove it in the future.

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No. We refute that. The chemicals are already there. Otherwise how living entities are coming out? We don't say that chemical is missing. Because the same theory: conservation of energy. The chemicals, the energy-producing, that is already there. It may be in different form, but the life-producing-energy is there. Otherwise how the other living entities are coming out?

Karandhara: In a living, in a living entity in the living body, there are so many things, personality...

Prabhupāda: They have got personality, all the living entities coming out, the microbes. They have got their personality. If they're moving in this way, you stop. They'll move in this way.

"There is some block. Let me go this side." So there is personality.

Karandhara: But in the dead body, there's no personality.

Prabhupāda: That means that individual person has left. That is the proof, that is the proof of individual soul. Just like there are so many plants of the same species. One is dead. That individual plant is dead, but other species are living. It is not extinct. How can you say the species is extinct? How you can say? Darwin's forefather might be extinct. But the monkeys are there. What is the time?

Brahmānanda: Six-thirty.

Morning Walk -- April 19, 1973, Los Angeles:

Brahmānanda: Welfare work.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That you can do without taking Kṛṣṇa prasādam. Because you have got stool and urine within your body, and there are many germs. They're eating that. You need not make a separate endeavor to feed them. (pause) The individual soul is never lost. That is our philosophy. Dehino 'smin. He's simply changing different body under different circumstances. That's all. The soul, individual soul, is never lost. Neither he takes birth, neither he dies. He's simply changing the garments. This is perfect theory.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So when they think nicely, there's no reason why they don't accept it.

Prabhupāda: But they are not nice men. They are rascals. They're not even gentlemen. A gentleman will have some shyness, some shame. But they're shameless. They cannot answer properly, still, shamelessly, they claim they're scientists.

Brahmānanda: They're expert bluffers.

Prabhupāda: They're not even gentlemen. At least, I take them like that. They're talking that in the past, from matter, living force came, and when I ask them: "Why don't you produce?", "Oh, that we shall do in the future." Why? You have already experienced in the past, and you cannot do it, and you are leaving the matter for future. So they're shameless. Not even ordinary gentlemen. Shameless. That in talking all this nonsense. That is my charge. What do you think?

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Anthropology. It is a false theory, and upon this so many universities are spending money, professors. Thousands. Rascal theory. You see. In this way, they're wasting money. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8). Aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ (SB 10.2.32).

Karandhara: They always have to revise their theories because about every few years they find something new which contradicts everything they have said before.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is their intelligence.

Brahmānanda: And they think that's progress.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Progress in one sense. Because they're rascals, making little progress.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Advancing in the wrong direction.

Prabhupāda: But the real progress is that when they will understand that: "We are rascals." That will be real progress, when they come to understand that: "We are all fools and rascals." That will be real progress. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu presented Himself that: "My Guru Mahārāja found me a rascal number one. Yes." That is real progress.

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: A group of scientists are now working on the idea that before we start anything, one should think...

Prabhupāda: No, there is the latest theory. What is this, theory of ignorance? Or what is that? Theory of impossibility, or something like that?

Karandhara: Oh, theory of uncertainty?

Prabhupāda: Uncertainty, yes. Theory of uncertainty. Everything is uncertain. And that is little intelligence. That, how to find out the certainty. (pause)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The scientists, they claim that the discoveries are accidental and incidental, by accident, by chance.

Prabhupāda: What is this? That means they're fools.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In many instances, when they try to find out something, they do not find the real one that they want, but in between, along the way, they find something else. So that is why they call it by accident. Because they did not aim for that, but somehow they get it along the way. (pause) (break)

Prabhupāda: ...also know how to keep pace with the big, big waves. They know how to do it. They're not afraid of big waves.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Brahmānanda: Oh, even though he did not see the goat, he knew it was there.

Prabhupāda: No, he's seeing. Otherwise, how does he (makes sound) "Hut, hut, hut." He's seeing. Where is that machine? So this Darwin's theory says that there was no intelligent man or brain but how these books were written, thousands and thousands of years ago? These Vedic śāstras. If there were no intelligent brain? Vyāsadeva, like Vyāsadeva. Before Vyāsadeva also, other great sages, they compiled...

Brahmānanda: They have no explanation.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Brahmānanda: They have no explanation.

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I think it's easier here.

Brahmānanda: They have no explanation for the author who, of the Vedic literatures. They say: "unknown forest sages."

Prabhupāda: Unknown, it may be unknown, but the things are there. Where from they got the brain? That is our question. It may be unknown to you, or unknown to me, but the brain work is there. The philosophy is there, and the... At least, the language, the poetic arrangement, the linguistic strength, everything is there. So you may not know the person, but you can understand the brain.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Whatever he has traced, what is the history of that tracing history? Tracing age?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So he started that life started from very primitive, different primitive forms...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. What is the time of Darwin. Which year he was a professor?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The theory started in 1859, about...

Prabhupāda: 1859. So hundred years ago. So all the brains developed within hundred years. All these rascals came out within hundred years. And before that, there was no other rascal. Just see the fun. All the scientific improvement, anthropology, everything came within hundred or two hundred years.

Brahmānanda: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Brahmānanda: Yes. That is their idea.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Before that, there were no brain.

Brahmānanda: 'Cause they didn't understand his theory.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No proof. How they can say so? (pause) If they accept that life started from life, then they'll have to accept God, the Supreme Person. Just like by practical experience we see one life is produced by another life. The father, mother begets a child. Not that a child drops from the sky. Their test tube experiment also depends on the father and mother. So what is that? Where is the proof? In the test tube you mix some chemical and produce a child. Then your theory is all right. You cannot create even an ant, even a fly. And still you are claiming that you can manufacture human being?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: What they'll say manufacture means they will take a seed, that... But

Prabhupāda: But that means that is not... Originally, it is from life. Seed is from the life. So where is your proof that matter produces life? Then you have to accept: life produces life. According to our śāstra, within the semina of the father, the living body, living entity, takes shelter. And it is injected to the mother's womb and the two matters mixes and the body forms. This is our śāstric explanation. Not that the semina discharged by the father, that is life. No. Within that semina, the living entity takes shelter. And it is put into favorable condition. Then it develops the body. This is... We, we find in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. That putting of the living entity in a particular type of semina depends on higher authorities. The higher authorities will judge what kind of body this living entity, after leaving this body, will get. So by higher authority it will be directed to enter into the semina of such father, and it will be injected into the womb of the mother. Then you'll get, develop a particular type of body and come out and suffer or enjoy. This is the process.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So we can return now. Which way? (pause)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So their statement that life started from matter can be disproved very easily?

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Any child can disprove it. And that theory is also wrong that lower type of animals were first created. No. All different varieties were, all were existing.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Prabhupāda explains that in, in Bhagavad-gītā, in one of the purports.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Whatever desire the living entities had before the annihilation, that became the, the living entities enter into different bodies according to their...

Prabhupāda: Desire.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...desire.

Prabhupāda: He wanted a certain type of life. So nature gives him. "All right, take this body." He desires in a certain way, means he's associating with the quality of nature in a method, and according to that association, he's getting a particular type of body. Mind, mind is the creative force. Thinking. Thinking, feeling, willing. These are the psychological functions. So, first of all, thinking. Then he develops to work. And it is work you get a particular type of situation. (Break) One enters into the body of a pig. Then he'll have to go under the evolutionary process. Just like if you, if you are on the topmost staircase. Somehow or other you fall down. Then again you have to go, step by step. This is the... The steps are always there. Not that the steps are created for you. No. The steps are already there.

Morning Walk -- April 25, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. Therefore we kick on your face. (laughter) Therefore we have got the right to kick on your face. (laughter) Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have now some theories how to prolong life, how to live longer.

Prabhupāda: What is that? Even if you live longer, does it mean that eternal life? That is already there. I'll live for eighty years. Another lives, for, say, sixty years. Another lives for hundred years. That is already there. The trees live for thousands of years. Does it mean it is life? A tree lives for... In your San Francisco there is a tree which is said seven thousand years. Does it mean it is life? To live for so long duration of life? Then the tree is better than you. It is also living. Śaṅkarācārya lived for thirty-two years. Lord Caitanya lived for forty-eight years. So what is the use of living for hundred years? Who is more famous than Śaṅkarācārya and Caitanya Mahāprabhu? So you live for a moment. But live worth. Then it is life. And living for seven thousand years, standing like the tree, is that life?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Like the (indistinct) says, "One crowded hour of glorious life is worth a day without a name."

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact. Kalpa-sthāyino guṇāḥ. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita says that if you have got qualities, then you live for millions of years. Millions of years. If you have got quality. And if you have no quality, then living for thousands of years like the tree, what is the use? Is that very glorious life to stand up in a place like a tree for thousands of years? Actually they do not know what is the value of life. (Break) ...how people are busy here. And we see how people are wasting time. This is the vision.

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: The miserable conditions. So miserable condition is called māyā. The answer is in the Bhagavad-gītā, how we can surpass. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. Clear answer. "Anyone who surrenders unto Me, he can get out of this miserable condition offered by the māyā." They're eating the wet sand...(?) Again trying. This is struggle for existence. Survival of the fittest. Who survives? Who is the living entity who has surpassed the tribulations of material nature. Where is the fit? Darwin's theory: survival of the fittest. Who is that fit? Nobody's fit. Even the so-called scientists, they are also not fit. Professor Einstein, when there was death, he could not save. He must die. So nobody's fit. Where is the survival of the fittest? Simply struggle for existence. Survival of the fittest means Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). This is fittest.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They were talking about the temporary existence of the material body.

Prabhupāda: Eh? That is foolishness. That is foolishness. Just like if you go into the sea and if you want to be comfortable. This is foolishness. You cannot be. You are animal of land. If you are put into the water, however, expert swimmer you may be, you'll not be comfortable. That's not possible. So you are spirit soul. You cannot be comfortable in the material world. You can struggle, but that is not possible. And they are simply giving bluff, "In future, we shall, in future." This is rascaldom. They don't admit that it is not possible. They simply give bluff: "In future..." You see. "In future, it will be," we can also accept that, provided you have taken the proper means. But where is your future if you are wrongly directed? A child's future is bright when we see that he's being educated, he's going to school. But when he's playing on the street, where is his future? He has no future. He's wasting his time.

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is the favorite theory for the scientists.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They like to do things in future.

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. We say it is nonsense. In future, it is all right. You say, "In future...", but where is your method for future prosperity? That I am talking... If a child is getting proper education, then we can say that he has got a good future. But if the child is wrongly directed, then where is his future? A patient who has gone to the physician and undergoing treatment, he can expect in future he will be cured. But if he's lying down on the bed, and does not know who is physician, then where is his future? He has no future. So all these leaders, they're rascals, and who are following these rascals, where is his future? He has no future. They're all rascals. Anyone accepting: "This rascal is a great scientist." So his future is doomed.

Brahmānanda: The blind leading the blind.

Prabhupāda: That's all. They do not, he does not know what is future happiness. He does not know.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They don't want to admit that.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say they cannot do at the moment, but somebody will come up in future so they can show. But they don't want to admit...

Prabhupāda: So that's all right, but, at the present moment, you are rascal. Somebody when come, intelligent, that is another thing, but you are rascal. So why you are leading, cheating others? That is our protest, that you know that you are a rascal, and you are cheating others to become leader. That is our protest. Why should you cheat others? Mūḍhaḥ. If he says that: "How do you know that I am rascal?" Because you do not know God. Therefore you are rascal. Mūḍhaḥ. Na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15). If you are, would have known what is God, then you would have surrendered to Him. Then you are intelligent. But because you do not surrender, you do not know what is God, therefore you are a rascal. This is the definition of rascal. Jñānavān māṁ prapadyate. And intelligent means one who surrenders. He's intelligent. One who does not, he's rascal.

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: What is the meaning of that such thinking, in such wretched condition? But he's thinking.

Brahmānanda: If we tell him to join us, he won't like it.

Prabhupāda: No, because he's thinking this is happiness.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the theory of relativity's everywhere.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is a fact.

Brahmānanda: One man's meat is another man's poison.

Prabhupāda: Poison. (pause) Śyāmasundara has not started from London. You can ask him to bring my overcoat and (indistinct).

Brahmānanda: (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Yes. (pause)

Devotee: How does one practice to keep the mind from being restless?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Devotee: How does one practice to keep the mind from being restless?

Prabhupāda: To have good association.

Morning Walk -- April 28, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the action of force is necessary?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Force.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is some scientists' theory, Newton's? That originally there must be some pushing. What is it? Whose theory it is? To set in motion.

Devotee: Newton?

Prabhupāda: I think Newton's.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The Newton has the laws of motion.

Prabhupāda: Motion. So one must give the motion. Then another motion, another motion, another motion. Just like big, big, that trucks, railway, trucks. The engine pushes one truck. Have you seen shunting? The, the truck pushes. Another truck, another, kat, kat, kat, kat, kat, kat, kat, kat. Like that.

Brahmānanda: Shunting, yeah.

Prabhupāda: So who is giving the pushing? The living entity, driver. A big truck is being pushed: kata kak kata kak kata kak kata kak, one after another. Similarly the whole creation, Kṛṣṇa is giving the pushing. Then one after another, one after another, one after another working. You see. mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). That is stated in the Bha... mayādhyakṣeṇa. Kṛṣṇa gives the pushing first. Then everything comes, one after another. But His pushing capacity is so perfect that everything is coming out perfect, perfect, perfect, perfect. Just like Kṛṣṇa says: bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10). "I am the seed of everything created." Now take the seed of the banyan tree. Kṛṣṇa has created. He says, "I am the seed." Now you sow the seed. A big tree will come out. Big tree will come out. Not only big tree. Many millions of seeds will come out of it. And each seed, again big tree. So the original seed, Kṛṣṇa, pushes. Then one after another, one after another, one after another... So you are simply observing when the things are coming into existence by such pushing. But you are trying out, trying to find out who is the original pusher. That you do not know. That you do not know. Who has originally pushed this energy? That you do not know.

Morning Walk -- May 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So what is origin of life?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He said that there are twenty amino acids, twenty of them which are necessary for the maintenance of life, the living entities. So he was discussing how these amino acids are formed before the dawn of creation, and he had so many theories, all nonsense.

Prabhupāda: So did you not protest?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Then there was... After his lecture... It was a one hour long seminar, and there was question and answer. So they invited questions. Nobody asked.

Prabhupāda: So you did not ask?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, I asked later on. I asked, that "Your topic is about origin of life, but you are not talking about the origin of life. So there is no basis of your argument."

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Morning Walk -- May 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Logic and argument?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Nyāya-pra... Just like Vedānta-sūtra, it is logic and argument to approach the Absolute Truth. Athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now it is the time for inquiring about Brahman." This is logic. Because other animals, they cannot inquire about the Absolute Truth, but human being can, therefore the first proposition is, atha ataḥ, "Now because you have got human form of life, therefore you should now inquire about the Absolute Truth." This is the beginning. It is logic. And actually we feel, "Who has created the ocean? Who has created the stars? How it is floating? Whether there are human beings?" So many questions. That should be solved now. And actually they are doing, the scientists. Scientists means they are also trying to solve so many problems. So that is, human being can be scientist. Not a dog can be scientist. So why not become the supreme scientist to know the Absolute Truth. That is Vedānta-sūtra. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. Now you propose that "Why don't you accept that life begins from life?" What is their objection? This is also theory, and why not accept this theory? And now let us compare, which theory is feasible. Why you are afraid?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are silent.

Morning Walk -- May 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So life is the origin.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Life started from life. It cannot start from matter.

Prabhupāda: No. If you can establish this theory, you will get also Nobel Prize. Yes, try for... Yes, do it. And all these rascals will be defeated. Do that. Their so-called theory that life has come out of matter... Do this by your education. Yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam. Here is life, Kṛṣṇa. Here begins everything. Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). Kṛṣṇa says. Vedānta says, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Everything is there. Simply we have to present it scientifically. That's all. So you were the only person to protest against him in the meeting?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Nobody asked any questions.

Brahmānanda.: Blind leading the blind.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Anyway he has admitted, "I do not know." That is sufficient defeat for him. But they are shameless. In spite of being defeated, they won't admit that "I am defeated." Not gentlemen. Formerly between two learned scholars there will be argument. If one is defeated... Just like Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya. As soon as he became defeated, he became His disciple. That's all. That was the system. Not that we go on arguing for hours, and one is defeated; still, he remains the same. No. If you are defeated, then you must accept the other party as your master. That was the system. As soon as he said that I do not know, he should have become your disciple. That is the system. "If you do not know why you have come to teach me."

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...is that the whole world is running on a false theory that life is born out of matter. But that is not a fact. So how to defeat this theory? That is our business. We have to defeat this rascal theory. We have to challenge all these rascals and defeat them. How it is possible?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: By logic.

Prabhupāda: By logic, by science. Anyway, that we have to make program. Because this is most misleading. The whole human society is affected by this misleading theory. We have to make program, go from place to place and invite all big men, all scientists. That program we have to make. We cannot allow this nonsense theory to go on. We must make something. Brahmānanda, how to make this? This is a fact, that, that life comes from life. In another sense life does not come. Life is existing. It is not exactly the word that life generates, no. Life is existing. The matter is generated. Matter is generating, and it stays for some time, again it is vanished. Just like this body. This body is born at a certain date, and it will be finished at a certain date. This is matter. (break) The wood was born at a certain date from the tree. It remains green for certain time. Then it is not green, dry. Then, after some time, it will be finished. Matter is not permanent. Matter is changing. Ṣaḍ-vikāra. Six kinds of changes, matter. Birth, then growing... Matter grows also. Just like the body has grown. It was very small, pea-like body in the beginning, and it grows. So birth, growth, maintenance for some time, then by-product. There are some by-products. And then dwindling, then finished. This is matter.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The original source is life.

Prabhupāda: Life, yes. They are searching after the original source. That is life, Kṛṣṇa, sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1), cause of all causes. So this is not theory; this is fact. Now we have to prove it. Then the whole program of these rascals' theory will be changed, and people will be happy. Because they are standing on a wrong theory, all their calculations are wrong, and people are suffering. The rascal Darwin's theory. So many, based on this foolish theory, wrong conception of life. So we have to challenge, protest. defeat. This will be our work. Our worshiping of Kṛṣṇa, that is our internal affair. The external affair—we need to establish this theory. Otherwise they'll be leading this society. Misleading. They are misleading, not leading, misleading. So we have to stop this misleading. Make program how to do it. Because it is truth, you will come triumphant. There is no doubt about it. It is truth. Now you have to know how to present the truth. That is your business. We are not presenting something theories, concocted by my brain. No. This is the fact. Rudimentarily we have got evidences, but it has to be presented by the modern ways. They are presenting some wrong principle by propaganda, and we cannot establish real principle by factual presentation? What is the difficulty?

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So you protest, write in book. You are scientist. Write in book. Prove scientifically. That will be your laurel of taking the doctorate degree. If you also become one of these rascal doctors, then what is the use of your Kṛṣṇa consciousness that whatever they say you silently accept? No. Just become Babhruvāhana, Manipur Babhruvāhana, that the fighting is faced. Take assistance, you have got. Ask Dr. Rao to come, join. Make plan. Go from town to town, all over the world. This has to be done. There was a poetry by Rabindranath Tagore. The purport of the poetry is that one who is mischievous, he is culprit. But one who tolerates mischievous activity, he is also culprit. If you are mischievous, you are criminal. But if you tolerate mischievous activities that is also criminal. Challenge these rascals. Stop their rascal theories. They have been described in the Bhāgavata as śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). Saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. The so-called modern leader, he is a paśu, animal. And who exalts them? Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ: other lower animals like dogs, the hogs, śva-viḍ-varāha, camel and ass. So one big animal is being praised by these kinds of animals. So all the population without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they have been described as dogs, hogs, camel and ass.

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Therefore we have to make very strong propaganda against this theory. Otherwise if you sleep only and take doctorate title, what is the use? You have to fight against these rascals. Make your soldier's party and start fighting against these rascals. No more toleration. No more silence. What is that sound?

Brahmānanda: Oh, it's a power saw. They are going to cut the wood.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: If we publish that the original source is life, then everybody has to accept it that the... Everybody has to accept Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our program. As soon as they agree, "Yes, life is...," then they have to accept Kṛṣṇa automatically. Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1). (break) Some of them are thinking that this is a saṅkīrtana party. We are saṅkīrtana party, undoubtedly. But they may not think "They are sentimentalists." They must know that we are scientists. Everywhere is the direction. These high waves, this big Pacific Ocean, they are also carrying out the direction of that Supreme life. Just like this airplane is floating. Is it floating without any direction?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There is direction.

Morning Walk -- May 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Harer nāma, harer nāma, harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). Sattvam... There is an Indian government slogan, sattvam eva...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Sattvam eva jayate.

Prabhupāda: Ah. So this is sattvaṁ jayate. It must come out triumphant. We have to try for... How foolishly they are propagating a false theory, and amongst themselves self-complacent, getting prize, eulogization. What is this nonsense? Expose them. Bluffing. The bluffing should be exposed. What you are doing here?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: What they are doing here?

Śrutakīrti: I think they have been taking out those posts from the sand. A little dangerous.

Prabhupāda: Dangerous, why?

Śrutakīrti: When the water covers them, they can't be seen. Someone can get hurt on them.

Prabhupāda: So many dangers. (break) So there are no more talks in your...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, there is a talk coming next week. There is a lecturer coming next week. He's slightly connected with evolution. He's a Nobel Prize winner. He's from Berkeley. He's coming next week, next Wednesday. He is going to give two lectures in our department. He is going to talk on evolution. The first lecture.

Prabhupāda: Darwin.

Morning Walk -- May 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, there are several theories. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Suppose he knows the cause of cancer. What is the benefit? Neither he can stop cancer, neither a man suffering from cancer, if it is cured, he will live forever. That is not possible. Cancer or no cancer, a man has to die. He cannot check death. The death may be caused, if not cancer, simply by accident you can die. The real scientific research should be how to stop death. That is real scientific. That we are giving. To find out some medicine for some disease, that is not triumph. Real triumph is how to stop disease. That they cannot. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā puts before you the real trouble is this birth, death, old age and disease. That process we are giving. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). After giving up this body, no more acceptance of material body. This is real science. (break) ...suffer from cancer. (laughter) They don't suffer from cancer. So they are in better position than the so-called human society. They are creating causes of cancer disease and then making research and taking Nobel Prize. How foolish society it is, this. Why you create the cause of cancer disease? You accept these four principles of life—no meat-eating, no intoxication, no illicit sex—there will be no cancer. There will be no cancer. You find out, those who are strictly on this line, they never suffer from cancer or any disease. Now take for example, me. I have come here in this country for the last seven years, 1965, and it is 1973, eight years. How many times I have gone to doctor? That once that heart attack. That is serious; that is another thing. Otherwise generally how many times I have gone to? I don't pay any bill of doctors. So if we live very hygienic life, regulated life, there is no question of cancer or any disease.

Morning Walk -- May 5, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Development.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: When a person becomes very old, he should be very intelligent.

Prabhupāda: No no. It is a question of consciousness of the body. That does not mean when a dog becomes very old he becomes very experienced. No. Consciousness according to the body. The same theory. Because a child's body is not developed, the consciousness is also not developed. Hare Kṛṣṇa. And these rascals say that because the consciousness is not developed, he has no soul. Soul is there even within the tree. But because the consciousness is not developed, the sensation is less.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But still the consciousness in a particular species is developing.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere is developing consciousness. And the topmost development is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But the modern science, they say when one becomes old, the memory becomes short and then they tend to...

Prabhupāda: Yes. The body has changed. Therefore you have to accept that body has changed. Therefore next conclusion is when this body is lost he gets another body. Change of body. Seasonal changes. That one verse in the Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). Dehāntara-prāptiḥ, acceptance of another body. Then these modern scientists, they do not know this. They sometimes explain medical science, that blood corpuscles are changing, do they not?

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So anyway, some ideas are there. But in Bhāgavata it is all written.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they do not say that ten times.

Prabhupāda: What do they know? They do not know anything. Know something. (pause)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So when we establish the theory of acintya-śakti...

Prabhupāda: Not only acintya-śakti. First of all you have to establish that life is not from matter. Matter is from life. Then they will be under your control. First of all you have to establish. Because their whole scientific advancement is going on on this basis, that life is from matter. But that is not the fact. Matter is from life, just the opposite. First of all you have to establish this. Why don't you write a theory and get Nobel Prize? This is a fact. Now you have to prove only, by their scientific words. That's all. Fact is this is. Are you convinced about this fact, that matter comes from life, not life comes from matter? Are you convinced or not? Otherwise how you can write?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, I am convinced.

Prabhupāda: Then why don't you write in scientific language. All these material elements have come from life. Not that from material elements, life has come. No. That is not the fact. Kṛṣṇa says mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate, "Everything from Me." But Kṛṣṇa is life. Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8), janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). So... And bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ, bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā (BG 7.4). So many informations are there. Me, "Mine," "I am," like that. So He is life. Our God is not dead. Our God is life, living, just like us, one of us. But He is more powerful. That's it. Our God eats, sleeps, like us, just like we eat, sleep. The difference is that He eats, but He keeps the thing as it is.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the evolution of life... Those who are coming to the lowest living entity, the organisms, smaller units, so once they come to that stage, then they have to pass through the stages stepwise.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just the same example: As you get more money, you can acquire better apartment. The apartment is already there. Not that a apart..., this lower class apartment has become high class apartment. This is their nonsense. The Darwin nonsense theory is like that: "The apartment has become lower class to higher class." That is his theory.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, he is saying that evolving from the smaller units. So they are claiming that there was no human beings at the beginning, so the smaller living entities...

Prabhupāda: But they are claiming that there is no life. That is their defect. Therefore they cannot think how there can be human being. But if you begin from life, supreme life, Viṣṇu, from another life, Brahmā came, then there is no problem. Everything is all right. Because they think that life comes from matter, so millions and millions of years ago there was simply matter. Life was not visible. That is their theory. We don't say that. We say both are the energies, God's energies, life and matter. The life is superior energy; the matter is inferior energy. That is the difference. Both of them are existing. Same thing, example: This nail and this part existing always. This is superior part, this is inferior.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: Oh yes, it's necessary to walk a little.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs) Just get my cloth. Where it is? Missing? No, no, no. Harer nāma... (CC Adi 17.21). Our theory is sound. The rascal's theory is not sound. Ours is not theory; it is fact. Just like Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate: "From Me everything emanates." Vedānta-sūtra says, janmādy asya yataḥ: (SB 1.1.1) The Absolute Truth is that from where everything comes." But everything we see, life and matter. This is everything. What we see in this world? Life and matter. Is it not?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: That is everything. So life also comes from Him and matter also comes from Him. Energy.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But both come simultaneously?

Prabhupāda: No, no, not simultaneously. It is there already. Coming, idea is coming because we are in this limited world. We see everything here, we see there is beginning. So under that experience, we are thinking it is coming. But it's not coming.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: It is done. Just like sometimes I think that I came here alone without any expectation of success, and this movement has become so nice. Actually, by one man's effort it was not possible. But it has become so. This is acintya-śakti, Kṛṣṇa's, inconceivable. Even a modern businessman, he cannot organize such a worldwide organization in such short a time. We have talked with many businessmen in India. Some said, "We have got thirty branches," somebody says, "We have got forty," another twenty branches. Our students say "My Guru Mahārāja has 102 branches." So they say, "No, we cannot compare with your Guru Mahārāja." So this is acintya-śakti. You can see so many things, the acintya-śakti is working. So unless we accept acintya-śakti of God, it is not possible to understand what is God. Inconceivable potency. And that is actually a fact. We want to bring God to our level, that's frog philosophy. Atlantic Ocean to the level of well. That is foolishness. That is foolishness. We have to understand that this whole universe... Just like Arjuna saw the virāḍ-rūpa, universal form. So this whole universe is the form of the Lord. So if in my body there are so many chemicals, enzymes, and other things, so how much there must be, proportionately? Suppose if we find some portion of chemicals in my body, you will find less in the ant's body. Or you will find more in the elephant's body. So if I can create so many chemicals within my body, how much chemicals He can create? On that account... Your theory, that combination of hydrogen, oxygen makes water, that is a fact. But you are surprised, wherefrom such a big quantity of hydrogen, oxygen came so that the ocean is there. That you cannot calculate. But we answer: "This hydrogen, oxygen is there in the body, universal body of the Lord." Therefore you find. Why do they, do not understand this plain thing? Hydrogen, oxygen we accept; that's a fact.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: Prabhupāda, we should start going back.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). Your work, and supervision-higher authorities.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is completely in contradiction with Darwin's theory.

Prabhupāda: Darwin is a rascal. What is his theory? We kick on your face. That's all. That is our philosophy. The more we kick on Darwin's face, the more advanced in spiritual consciousness. He has killed the whole civilization, rascal.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Even all the scientists now, the present scientists, their arguments are based on Darwin's early theories.

Prabhupāda: What they are...?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That life started from matter and is evolving from the uni-cellular organisms to the multi-cellular organisms. So that means they are saying that there was no higher species at the beginning of creation.

Prabhupāda: Nonsense. So why there is now higher species? And the lower species also. As we see at the present moment, there is the most intellectual person and the most foolish ass also... So why do we see all the things simultaneously? Why ass is not abolished? What is their answer? So similarly, formerly also there was.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So if that, even parallel, then there is Brahmā. He is most advanced. Why do you say there was no human being? There was. Therefore their theory, "In such and such era the human life began," that is wrong if they accept parallel. They are existing always. And as we see. Now as we see, the trees are there, birds are there, animals are there, human beings are there, God is there, demigod is there. Everything is there. Where is the question of evolution? Simply we have to enter. That's all.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Do we have anything, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the reference, saying that all the living entities are already there?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that jīva-jātiṣu.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, and that implies?

Prabhupāda: Jīva-jāti, different grades of jīva. Jāti, you know jāti?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...to stop him for taking another Nobel Prize. Where is? (laughter) I am giving him notes that life is not from matter. Matter is from life. So he is going to write thesis on this.

Paramahaṁsa: Jaya. Vedānta-sūtra.

Prabhupāda: This is the fact. The so-called scientists, they are going on a wrong theory. Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ: (BG 10.8) "I am the origin of everything." So Kṛṣṇa is life. Kṛṣṇa is not dead stone. Svarūpa Dāmodara?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says that "I am the source of everything." He is life.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: He is not a dead stone. Then how matter can be the cause of life?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Matter is caused by life.

Prabhupāda: Yes, matter grows upon life. Just like why this body has grown upon me? I am the spirit soul. This is māyā. Just like, this is... I have explained in Bhagavad-gītā. I am putting on this overcoat. The overcoat is made according to the size of my body, but I am thinking, "I am overcoat." This is foolishness. Just like I got my hand, therefore this overcoat is made of warm cloth. It has got a hand also. Because originally I have got hand, therefore the overcoat has got a hand. Similarly, originally I am spirit soul, I have got my spiritual body, and the material body has grown, cut according to the body.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So if the tree can produce so much chemicals, how much the body of God can produce chemicals, we can imagine only. They are giving the theory that "From these chemicals life begins, or evolution begins." But wherefrom that chemical developed? That they do not know. That explanation is here, Kṛṣṇa: "I am the source."

Paramahaṁsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam or the Kṛṣṇa Book, you state that even clouds have souls. But then again they dissipate, in the rain they dissolve. Does that mean they die?

Prabhupāda: No. Just like your body dissolves. Does it mean you die?

Paramahaṁsa: So that means the life span of a cloud is very minute or very short. Is that so?

Prabhupāda: Yes, there are many living entities.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, my understanding of the evolution and the transmigration is that evolution is uni-directional, only in one direction.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- May 14, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, why do you take this step to avoid this?

Kṛṣṇa-kāntī: It's uncomfortable. It's not natural.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the Māyāvāda theory; that everything will uncover automatically, why do you bother? That is nonsense.

Karandhara: They will not be able to be so philosophical in their next lives when they're a dog.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Eh?

Karandhara: The Māyāvādīs will not be able to be so philosophical in their next lives when they're dogs or cats.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Karandhara: They have to have a human body in order to enjoy that philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Their philosophy is that there is only one-God. So cats and dogs, that is God's līlā. That is their rascal philo... God is making pastimes, līlā, by becoming a dog. That is their rascal philosophy. Daridra-nārāyaṇa. Vivekananda's philosophy. Nārāyaṇa has become daridra, poor. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (pause) So with chemists we have no quarrel if they begin from light. They're beginning from darkness. That is our contention. We say, "Begin from light." And they say, "No, begin from darkness." Because they're in darkness. One who is in the darkness, from darkness, if he goes to light, he thinks that the darkness is the beginning.

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Krishna Tiwari: Oh, we know. We know our own measurements, which are very reliable. Different people will come up with the same number, and we do not have to depend upon any, you know, round-about answer.

Prabhupāda: No, we have to depend...

Krishna Tiwari: No, we don't.

Prabhupāda: You theories changes every year.

Krishna Tiwari: No... Well it changes (laughter), because it is very...

Prabhupāda: Therefore we have to depend.

Krishna Tiwari: No. Change is the law of nature. Change is the law of nature. Change...

Prabhupāda: "Change is the law of nature," that's fine...

Krishna Tiwari: And therefore...

Prabhupāda: ...but one should know the whole duration of change. Just like we know that sunrise, from the morning 'till evening, there are so many changes, but I know what is that changes. That is knowledge.

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Devotee (1): So then your process is imperfect. You admit. We're saying that there's a process which is perfect, and it's a process of receiving knowledge which is absolute, that is descending, and receiving that with a submissive attitude. And you're saying that by your sensuous endeavor with your different machines and instruments, you can ascend to the Absolute Truth. But the symptom of a person who is in knowledge is that he's satisfied, he's peaceful within, and we can understand that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness society is developing, is helping living entities, people, become satisfied within by receiving knowledge and actually coming to, to understand themselves and what's around them and so forth, whereas, let me ask you, how many people have actually come to this stage of peacefulness and knowledge, of being freed from the need for intoxication and so many different things, by your scientific method? In other words, has this process helped you to be actually filled with knowledge and bliss, or has it simply sent you into more questioning and more doubt until you come to a point of what we were discussing the other day, the Heisenberg's theory of uncertainty? Ultimately you come to the theory of uncertainty. So we're saying, when you come to this point, then you may as well just relax and try to have a submissive attitude, or any scientist, and try to receive knowledge which is descending.

Prabhupāda: Another, another thing is, he says, he says that he does not know what is there beyond this material nature. But he's still satisfied with that imperfect knowledge.

Conversation with Sridhara Maharaja -- June 27, 1973, Navadvipa:

Prabhupāda: The Russian professor...

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: And the scientific fineness that is also in the jurisdiction of matter. But a more subtle and subtler knowledge is possible.

Prabhupāda: Now we are presenting through two of my scientific students, Doctor of Chemistry, that matter is, the source of matter is spirit. This is our theory. Generally they believe the life, life comes from matter...

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Life comes from matter.

Prabhupāda: Matter. But we, we are presenting, "No, matter comes from life."

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Apparently. This is not appropriate. This is Vedānta. Vedānta...

Prabhupāda: Janmādyasya yataḥ.

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: I said that just examine the healthy body. This material world is an excema expect(?) in the healthy body.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Material, material atmosphere means diseased condition.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: This is the opinion of the demoniac people, that the, there is no God, there is no controller, it has come into existence by chemical reaction, just like a child is born by sex intercourse, reaction of some chemicals. This is the demonic theory. But... What is the next? Go on.

Pradyumna:

etāṁ dṛṣṭim avaṣṭabhya
naṣṭātmāno 'lpa-buddhayaḥ
prabhavanty ugra-karmāṇaḥ
kṣayāya jagato 'hitāḥ
(BG 16.9)

"Following such conclusion, the demoniac, who are lost to themselves and who have no intelligence, engage in unbeneficial, horrible works meant to destroy the world."

Prabhupāda: So work is required. But godly persons, they want to live a simple life and high thinking, save time for understanding of God. The demonic people, they are engaged in horrible activities. They have manufactured so many things. So in this way... There are so many descriptions. Actually, by the increase of demoniac people, people are not very happy, and they are missing the ultimate goal of life. That is the defect of the modern civilization. They do not believe that there is an ultimate goal of life, there is life after death, and what kind of body he's going to get next. These things are not, neither in the university education curriculum, neither people are interested. So at the present moment... This is called Kali-yuga.

Room Conversation with Mister Popworth and E. F. Schumacher -- July 26, 1973, London:

Revatīnandana: No. It's the solution. If you want to stop that treatment of animals, you stop the slaughterhouse. Otherwise, first you keep them in the field to slaughter. That's already brute mentality. That brute mentality means next I think, "I could get more flesh if I didn't let this cow move. So let me keep him in a case, cage, in the dark so they have lighter meat." This is one stage of brute mentality to another stage of brute mentality. The next stage of brute mentality... They're already killing the unborn child. Now, next, the child is born. That's the next stage of brute mentality. That is predicted in the Vedas.

Prabhupāda: Now, their theory is that when the child comes out of the womb, then he gets the soul. Is it not?

Revatīnandana: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Not within the womb.

Haṁsadūta: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: What kind of theory it is? For killing the child within the womb, they have discovered this theory.

Room Conversation with Mister Popworth and E. F. Schumacher -- July 26, 1973, London:

Schumacher: I agree with that.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You can defend your theory but that will not help purification of the society. That will not help. Take it for granted. You can make so many theories but if you remain impure, if you are not God conscious, all these theories will be useless. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā mano-rathe... (SB 5.18.12). This is simply mental speculation. Mano-rathena, hovering on the mental plane, you can jump from this to that, but that will not solve the problem. Mano-rathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ. So we do not act on mental speculation. It may be our credit or discredit. That is different thing. We simply follow the standard policy. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now, everything is described in the Bhagavad-gītā, how to become a brāhmaṇa, how to become a kṣatriya, how to become a vaiśya, how to become a śūdra, or how to remain less important than the śūdras. The societies must be divided in different divisions. They should work conjointly... (end)

Car Conversation after meeting with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Yogeśvara: Then he made the point that in a place like India it's foolish where so many people are dying of starvation, not to kill the cow on some religious principle.

Prabhupāda: That is another story. No Indians are dying, not by eating cow's flesh. That, that is the theory at the present moment given. But there are so many vegetarians in India. They do not touch even fish, or eggs, or animal flesh. They're quite healthy. It does not mean...

Yogeśvara: I think his answer would be that vegetarianism is reserved to the rich people who can afford it. That if you're poor, you have to eat whatever you can get.

Prabhupāda: Well. Now in India, meat is selling at high price than vegetable. Yes.

Yogeśvara: He said now in India meat is selling at a higher price than vegetables.

Prabhupāda: That is no logic.

Room Conversation with French Journalist and UNESCO Worker -- August 10, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Just see. And therefore I say, "Cheater and cheated." Yes. Similarly, scientists also. Recently in Los Angeles, California University, one professor, a big scientist came. He's a Nobel Prize owner. He described, gave lecture. He has written one book, on which he has got Nobel Prize, Evolution of Chemicals. He wants to prove by chemical, combination of chemical, life has come into existence. That is his theory, like Darwin's theory, that life is from matter or chemical. So after hearing the lecture, there is a professor also, a student, yes. He is also Doctor of Chemistry. He is my disciple. He inquired that "If I give you all these chemicals, whether you can produce life?" At that time he said, "That I cannot say." Just see. He is proposing that "From these chemicals, life has begun," and when he is questioned whether by supplying these chemicals he can produce a life, he said, "That I cannot say." This is going on. Then what is the... Then, if you cannot say, then why you are saying that from these chemicals life has come? So when they are caught up for practical purposes, they'll deny. And they are passing on as philosopher, as scientist, priest, and these things. Just see. (someone comes in) What is that?

Morning Walk -- August 30, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Oh? These rascals think like that?

David Lawrence: Yes, you see they say that the, because the Āryans came from or passed through at least the Middle East, that in fact some of the older parts of the Old Testament predate, so they say, and indeed some of the Egyptian higher, some of the better Egyptian stuff...

Prabhupāda: So one should transcend these, what is called, historical references. They calculate in Darwin's theory.

David Lawrence: Darwin's theory's out now isn't it? (laughs) It's sort of old fashioned now. They dispense with these theories as quickly as most people do their newspaper each day.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes.

David Lawrence: One day it's in, and the next day it's out. And while it's in, everybody claps and applauds. One or two other points, perhaps I can raise one or two of them. Some of them are longer in fact. An interesting thing that came out of my study of the Christian, or certainly the Jewish tradition, and I wondered, really, on your views on this, whether it relates at all to the Indian one. It seems when you get to the really high spot of Jewish religion, which many people consider the prophets of Judah...,

Prabhupāda: What is their high spot?

David Lawrence: Well, exactly,(laughs) that is, in inverted commas.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No, then it is skepticism. There is no progress of knowledge. There is no progress of knowledge. As far as man can understand, as Mr., you are Mr. Bannerji?

Guest (1): Mr. Howler. (?)

Prabhupāda: Howler? Yes. So, there is little logic there, as a human being can understand. That's all. And if we accept this theory, that logic, our logic is imperfect, we cannot understand, then we have to accept authority. Just like a child. Mother says, "Here is your father." There is no logic. There is no logic. He has to accept. Only the mother version is logic, That's all. Authority. Is it not?

Guest (1): Yes, that's true.

Prabhupāda: Then where there is no logic, the authority must be accepted. Therefore we accept that authority. Śabda-pramāṇa. The best evidence. Śabda-pramāṇa. There are different evidences. Out of that, veda-pramāṇa, śabda-pramāṇa is first class. All right, thank you very much. Jaya.

Mukunda: Śrīla Prabhupāda, Pearl has been attending our temple and following the regulative principles.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Mukunda: And she wants to become initiated.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Children, small children, they're just like animals. The cats and dogs, just they are playing, they're also playing like that. But he, he does not belong to that category because when he'll get..., he'll get another body in which he'll be intelligent. Another body, he'll be highly educated. Another body, he'll be doctorate. The cats and dogs, they'll have to wait to get that body. So with the body, we are changing our consciousness. So different body, different consciousness. Similarly, why not after death a different body, different consciousness? If you make progress. Yes. This is progressive. So that is confirmed in Bhagavad-gītā: tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13).

dehino 'smin yathā dehe
kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
tathā dehāntara-prāptir
dhīras tatra na muhyati
(BG 2.13)

So people cannot understand. That means they are not dhīra, not even, according to Vedic conc..., not even gentlemen. One who cannot understand this simple theory, that, "After this body, as I have changed so many bodies, similarly, I shall change this body also." That's a fact. So dhīras tatra na muhyati. Dhīra, one who has got brain, one who can think, he'll not be puzzled. "Yes, he has... Death means he has changed body." Any gentle, good brain will understand. But people are so foolish now, they cannot understand. They are not educated even to understand this simple thing. This is the position of the world. Even a big professor like Kotofsky. So this is the position of our present human society.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Haṁsadūta: 1966, in New York City. The teachings are standard, the teachings of this movement are standard, coming down from the original source, Kṛṣṇa, the original speaker. So it is very scientific. It's not manufactured. Today's science... Just like psychoanalysis, so many things, they are created recently. And so there are so many experiments and theories changing every day. But Kṛṣṇa consciousness is different in that it is the standard science for understanding the self. It's been practiced for hundreds, thousands, thousands years. And it has been proved successful by the ācāryas or the saintly teachers. So the same thing which was practiced many, many hundreds and thousands of years ago is being practiced today, and the same result is being achieved. This is the difference between Kṛṣṇa consciousness and..., Kṛṣṇa conscious science, spiritual science, and material science. The spiritual science requires no speculation or experimentation. But one has to accept it from the right, the authorized source.

Dr. Hauser: Yes. And it was that point I was taking up here, that for some people, accepting things...

Haṁsadūta: Everyone has to accept some, somebody. They either accept you or their mother, their father, somebody. At every moment, some, someone has to be accepted as authority for something. So what is the best authority? This should be the question. If I have to accept some authority, either here or there, then which is the best authority? This should be the point. Are you the best authority or this man or this man or this man...? Or who should be the best authority? The best authority is that authority which is perfect. That is God. God is perfect. So this is our, our, this is the foundation of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that God, He is perfect. Whatever He gives as instruction, that should be accepted. But if we don't agree to that, then we have to take instruction from someone else. And that is bound to be imperfect. Isn't it? Because we are working with imperfect senses, seeing, hearing. So whatever our conclusions may be, they're going to imperfect.

Prabhupāda: Because it has began from imperfect. Therefore conclusion must be imperfect.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: But that is going on. Recently it happened in Los Angeles, one big professor came to lecture there, and he has got Nobel Prize. I forgot his name. He has written one book, Chemical Evolution. So he was speaking on that Chemical Evolution, and his theory is life begins from four chemicals. So he gave lectures. After that, there is one student. He's also Doctor in Chemistry. He's my disciple. So he asked that professor that: "If I give you the chemicals, will you be able to produce life?" He replied: "That I cannot say." He says that life begins from these four chemicals. And he lectured hours. And when he was asked: "Suppose I give you these four chemicals, will you be able to produce life?" He answered, "That I cannot say." Just see. Is it not cheating? He's, he's saying that life is produced from these chemicals.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: But we are concerned with the real life. We are consider, concerned with the real life. If you can produce one real life, a small ant, not human being, then I shall think that you are successful in your program. But that you cannot do. Why do you talk nonsense? Therefore you are cheating. Why should he say: "That I cannot say," if he's not confident. That means cheating. Everyone is doing that. He's not confident about his theory, and he's speaking long, long speech. And people are fools. They are hearing. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). One blind man is leading many blind man. What is the benefit? The leader has no eyes, and he's leading many blind men. What is the use?

Dr. Hauser: Hmm. Yes.

Prabhupāda: And these so-called scientists will reply: "Yes, we are trying. In future..." In future, everyone can expect future. But the hearsay is that: "Trust no future, however pleasant." Why future? In past we could not do. At present we cannot not do. What is the guarantee that in future we'll be able to do? There is no history that anyone has produced life from chemicals. What do your, what do you think, that life is a product of chemicals? Do you mean to say?

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Therefore, if...

Dr. Hauser: ...all the different stages of life.

Prabhupāda: Do you think that's a fact...

Dr. Hauser: It's not a fact. I don't know whether it's a fact. I... But that's...

Prabhupāda: Then that means illusioned. You are not confident, but you accept that theory. This is illusion.

Dr. Hauser: But... Yes. But...

Prabhupāda: But you should apply your reason, from practical life, whether life is produced from matter, or matter is produced from life. Our proposition is: matter is produced from life, not life is produced from matter. In the Vedānta-sūtra it is said: janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Absolute Truth is that from whom or from which everything emanates. Now that Absolute Truth, whether he's life or dead stone. So that is discussed: janmādy asya yato 'nvayād itarataś cārtheṣv abhijñaḥ (SB 1.1.1). That Absolute Truth must be cognizant. So as soon as you say cognizant, then He's alive. Abhijñaḥ. That, that means if I say: "I have produced all these things that is within the room," then means I must have brain. I must be experienced how to do it. How I can be dead, matter? Has the matter has got such thing? The origin of creation must be a living being.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Where is that evidence, creation of life from matter? Is there any evidence in the history?

Dr. Hauser: No, but as we know, the evolution of life has gone through different stages of... How do you...?

Prabhupāda: Darwin's theory. Do you mean to say, Darwin's theory?

Dr. Hauser: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: That is nonsense. Darwin was a number-one nonsense. Yes. Rascal. He has confused the whole world.

Dr. Hauser: Hmm. Why...?

Prabhupāda: Evolution of matter. Matter cannot evolve. That is not possible.

Dr. Hauser: But evolution of life...

Prabhupāda: What is that life? That is different from matter. That is a different energy. That I am speaking. Matter is... Life is the origin of matter. The evolution is not of the matter, but of the life. That Darwin does not know. Therefore I say nonsense. He does not know that.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Just like you have got the desire to purchase another dress, garment, nicer, but if you have no money, then how you can purchase? You have to purchase something inferior. So these different species of life is the evolution of the living soul according to his karma. That is Vedic instruction. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). So I am a living entity. If I want to go to better condition of life, then I'll have to pay for it. Better condition is there already. Not this inferior condition changes into that better condition. That is another thing. Just like the condition in moon planet is different from the condition of this earthly planet. That is already there. You have to transfer yourself from this planet to that planet. So that point is missing in Darwin's theory. He says that body is evolving. That is nonsense. The body is evolving, then why the monkey body is not producing a human body at the present moment? Where is the evidence? The monkeys are already there. Where is the evidence in the zoo that a monkey has produced a human being? Do you think it is all right?

Dr. Hauser: Yes, that, that life might have taken different forms, that I'm quite sure of. And that the human being might not have existed for about a hundred thousand years ago.

Prabhupāda: No human beings exists eternal. He's existing. But he accepting, he's accepting different situation.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Paramahaṁsa: Cro-magnon, and it was the same human body as now, as we have now. They have discovered. And with this discovery, they say, completely all of Darwin's theories have been destroyed. This is a fact. Immediately see. He overlooked. He says: "I do not see any proof that human beings lived, millions of years ago. Therefore I think apes were existing." But what proof does he have? And how they have discovered bones and they have proven by tests that Cro-magnon era there was the same human body. It's a fact. And completely his, all his theories have been destroyed. Because he again, he was working with his illusory senses.

Dr. Hauser: Hmm. But there are the dinosaurs for example. The dinosaurs, yes. Which died and disappeared from the earth. And that is also a kind of evolution that has taken place.

Haṁsadūta: He says there are these prehistoric animals like dinosaurs, these big, gigantic animals, they are no longer existing now, but they existed at one time. So there, there was some evolution there.

Dr. Hauser: Yes.

Haṁsadūta: But the point is Vedic, Vedic conclusion is...

Prabhupāda: No, but, apart from Vedic conclusion, this example, that practically, when I go from this apartment to another apartment, so this apartment does not become another apartment. I go from this apartment to another apartment. He's missing that "I". Or "you". That is his nonsense.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: He does not know. The apartment does not change. The owner of the apartment goes from one apartment to another. That he does not know. Therefore he's cheating. He does not, he has no perfect knowledge, and he's cheating. Cheater. He does not know. The soul, from the monkey's body is coming to human body. That is nice. Not that the monkey's body is changing into human body.

Dr. Hauser: But some of this cheating, as you call it, must have, have still been a great use to mankind because it has not been proven at the time when this theory has been evoked by some scientist, it has not been proven that he's right, but he works according to this principle that he has got, and then later...

Prabhupāda: Yes. That, that is explained in Bhāgavatam that in the jungle one big animal is the leader of other animals. That's all. But they're animals. Is it not?

Dr. Hauser: But I don't really understand.

Prabhupāda: In the jungle, in the forest,...

Dr. Hauser: Yes.

Prabhupāda: ...the lion is considered to be the king of animals. So lion is also animal, only big animal. That's all.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Banker: Well, there are metaphysics departments in almost every university.

Prabhupāda: Metaphysics department is there. I was also a student of philosophy. That is theories only. Of course, they are trying, psychology, metaphysics, ethics. You were also a student of philosophy?

Banker: I took some courses. My major courses were in business. But I took some in philosophy, ethic, logic.

Prabhupāda: So apart from that metaphysical, from this worldly platform, there must be divisions. Just like in your bank, if everyone is manager, that is not possible. There must be clerks and other assistants. So that is required. The society must be divided into four classes. That is brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra.

Banker: My question is how does one determine into which part he goes?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is by tendency. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). By the tendency. Therefore one has to approach the spiritual master. He will give direction that "This boy is meant for becoming a brāhmaṇa." Everyone has got some tendency. From the tendency it should be designated. Or by work.

Room Conversation with Indian Guest -- October 4, 1973, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is not your servant, that you can bring it down. That is not possible.

Guest (1): Somebody has to work for it.

Prabhupāda: No, that is another, I mean to say, rascal proposition. You cannot bring that.

Guest (1): Somebody has to. Because the creation can be...

Prabhupāda: No, no. "Somebody has to," that is your theory. But that is not possible.

Guest (1): The creation is always unfolding, more and more, and becoming of more and more.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Creation is already there. Your knowledge is imperfect. You do not know what is that creation.

Guest (1): Few billion years before there was no human being living here.

Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom. That is rascaldom.

Guest (1): Hm?

Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom, that statement.

Morning Walk -- December 2, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, there are many scientists like that. Just like this Marconi, he stole the knowledge from Dr. Jagadisha Candra Bose. You know that?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I have heard this.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Jagadisha Candra... I was present. He said that "This man cheated me. I talked with him. Next morning he published the theory."

Karandhara: About radio?

Prabhupāda: No, newspaper. Because both of them were friends, scientists, they talked. And he took the clue, immediately published the theory.

Bali Mardana: Which theory was that?

Prabhupāda: That Marconi wireless.

Bali Mardana: Wireless, radio.

Prabhupāda: Yes, radio. That was Jagadisha Candra Bose's discovery. But the government will not give the credit to the Indians. Because Jagadisha Candra Bose happened to be Indian. These Britishers they are so much envious. Therefore they will never admit that Bhagavad-gītā was spoken five thousand years ago. They bring all within the Christian period. That is their rascaldom.

Morning Walk -- December 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Floating where. Wherefrom the sky came? They are all nonsense. Simply speculating and consuming cheap money from the government. That's all. This is their business. The government is exacting taxes from the hard-working men, and these rascals are devouring this money. That's all. And making theories. That's all.

Hṛdayānanda: There was one big scandal where they found out all the scientists were just taking money. Even by material standards it was unnecessary. It was a very big scandal.

Prabhupāda: It must be they are scandals. They are after money. That's all. Not after knowledge. And what knowledge they have got? Simply speculating and befooling other fools. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). This is their business. One blind man is befooling other blind men. That's all.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They are very much convinced that this earth was gaseous. So there was no life at the beginning.

Prabhupāda: That may be. That may be that. But wherefrom the gas came?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It was just existing.

Prabhupāda: Bhinnā prakṛtiḥ. The answer is given. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhiḥ (BG 7.4). Vāyu, vāyu gas, it came from Kṛṣṇa. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Vāyu. Vāyu is gas, is it not?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Air.

Morning Walk -- December 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: You see still, gases, I mean to say, cloud is forming in the sky. But you have no eyes to see it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: With this background before, then that is why they start saying that before Darwin's theory there should be one. That is called chemical evolution. That is called pre-biotic-chemistry. Means before biological evolution started there should be chemical evolution.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that chemical evolution is part of life demonstration. That I have already explained. Just like the chemical, citric acid, coming from lemon tree, a life. It is coming. So all chemicals are being produced... Just like in your body, in my body, there are so many chemicals. Because the body is there, the chemicals are coming. In my urine you will find so much, so many chemicals. In my stool you will find so many chemicals. Wherefrom the chemicals coming? Daily, enzymes, so many other chemicals are coming. Simply the medical man analyzes the urine, and so many chemicals are there. Wherefrom it came? Because I am living entity, the chemicals are coming in my urine, in my stool, in my cough, in my secretion. It is coming. Therefore it is concluded that chemicals are produced by life, not life is produced by chemicals.

Morning Walk -- December 3, 1973, Los Angeles:

Yaśomatīnandana: And also, if nature made a mistake, then how could nature supply the necessities of all the living entities? After all...

Prabhupāda: No, no, there is no mistake. Mayādhyakṣeṇa (BG 9.10). It is said, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram. Under the supervision of Kṛṣṇa, God, nature is working. How there can be mistake? In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said, sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā (Bs. 5.44). This nature is working just like shadow. Real direction is from God. Icchānurūpam api yasya ca ceṣṭate sā. By His will, nature is working. So how He can be mistaken? Nature is working under the will of God; so how there can be mistake in the part of God? There is no mistake.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They use these terms to explain their proposed theory. This terminology.

Prabhupāda: Which terminology?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Like "mistake" and all these things.

Prabhupāda: Mistake, There cannot be... That is the difference between God and ourself. We are living entity, God is also living entity. But He has no four defects. We have got four defects. We commit mistake, we are illusioned, our senses are imperfect, and we cheat. God does not do all these things. That is the difference between God and ourselves. He does not commit mistake. He is not illusioned. He does not cheat, and His senses are perfect. Vedāhaṁ samatītāni (BG 7.26).

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: Their logic...

Prabhupāda: No, it's inconceivable by them, not by us. Therefore we call them fools. It is not inconceivable by us. But so you know the Truth from the Truth, Absolute Truth. A layman or a foolish boy does not know where..., which side the sun will rise. His father can say, "This side it will rise." That is the difference. Because he knows how to suggest which side, because there is reddish, how do you say? Illumination. He knows that "This side it will rise," by the symptom. Both of them, the foolish man and the intelligent man, just at present do not see that where is the sun. But the intelligent man knows "Here is the sun," although the sun is not visible both to the intelligent and foolish man. That intelligence means he knows how to find out where is sun. That is intelligence. And this is not discovery. I am intelligent speaking "This side is sun." It is not my discovery. I have heard from authority that from the eastern direction the sun rises, so I know it.

Yaśomatīnandana: They're so stupid they name it Absolute Truth, but still they try to make their own theories about the Absolute Truth.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. He is potent.

Umāpati: He's always the supreme potency.

Prabhupāda: He is potential. That means you manufacture God. Sometimes you manufacture God as male, sometimes you manufacture God is female. Is it not? Is it not your theory? As you say, "Now we accept female as God," that means you manufacture God. Is it not?

Prajāpati: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And what you manufacture, is that God?

Prajāpati: They see...

Prabhupāda: What do you manufacture? You are imperfect. So whatever you manufacture, that is imperfect. How it can be God?

Prajāpati: Well, God is simply the way we view each other, relationship with each other, as the...

Prabhupāda: Well, that is your manufacture. Why do you say like that? Each other's relationship? The relationship already there. What is to make new there? The already... God is great, and we are small. The relationship is already there. So how you can make another relationship? God is great. Is it not? God is great. Is it not?

Prajāpati: Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Bali Mardana: Prabhupāda, when the universes are emanated from the body of Mahā-Viṣṇu, they begin to expand.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Bali Mardana: Is the universe still expanding?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is scientific theory.

Bali Mardana: Yeah. I think Einstein agreed with that also. Many scientists, they also have come to that conclusion.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Einstein followed the theory that the universe is expanding. So people accept it.

Karandhara: While the exhaling is going on, the universe is expanding. In the inhaling...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Karandhara: ...the universe is contracting.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not contracting. They'll be finished. Destroyed. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). This is the nature, material nature. It will grow. Just like the tree has grown. One day there will be no more, finished. Your body has grown and one day it will now finish. That is material nature. Similarly, this universe. It has grown, and one day it will be finished.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Satsvarūpa: What about Śaṅkara's cheating?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Śaṅkara's cheating is also like that, because he was taking, he was accepting from the Buddhists. If he immediately says that "Lord Buddha was, cheated you," they'll not accept. Therefore he made some compromise. The Buddhist theory is "void," and he said, "No form." So it is almost the same. But he said, "There is Brahman." Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. That much improvement. The same process. Just like one wants to eat meat. He is given some regulation, "Yes, you can eat meat. There is no harm. But you do like this: Go to a mosque. On Eid day you can kill one animal." Or "You go to the synagogue under the protection of..." And our Hindu śāstra says, "Go to the Goddess Kālī's temple, and get a goat, black goat." That means under condition. If it is good thing, it would have been sanctioned, "Yes, you can do whatever you like." But it is not good. But if you say, "It is not good," he'll not accept. Therefore under some condition.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Losing the material body.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So that you are losing every day, every moment. You are not today what you were yesterday, that you are losing. So, how can you defeat? You are, every moment you are being defeated.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There are some theories now. By turning the temperature, by cooling down little more than the body temperature, you can live longer.

Prabhupāda: Well, you can live little longer, but you cannot live forever. That is not possible.

Umāpati: They're freezing the body now, Prabhupāda, in the hopes that sometime in the future science will be able to make them come back to life.

Prabhupāda: That is all future. That is all future.

Hṛdayānanda: They take so much money for it.

Prabhupāda: It is not practical.

Morning Walk -- December 7, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Simply read it. There is no question of five thousand, ten thousand, old or new. Just see what is the knowledge there. Lokasyājānato vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitām (SB 1.7.6). Because they are fools, for them this literature is made. Lokasyājānato vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitām. (break) ...accept Bhāgavata, then their Darwin's theory is finished. Darwin's theory is finished.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, if they accept that there is a spirit soul, then Darwin's theory is also finished.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Spirit soul, they don't like to accept it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Prajāpati: The theologians are saying that if we say man is simply soul, he is not his body, we are not accepting the whole man. The whole man means soul and body together.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we say, body, same...

Karandhara: Body, mind and soul.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Gross matter, subtle matter, and the spirit.

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: He's a duṣkṛtina. Demon. Yes. Māyayāpahṛta-jñānā āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ (BG 7.15), moghāśā mogha-karmāṇaḥ. (break) So what is your theory? Do you think that God is under theory?

Prajāpati: They think so. They concoct. They make up God.

Prabhupāda: So if you make up God, then is that God? If God is subjected to your manufacturing process, so what kind of God He is?

Prajāpati: Largely they've come to realize that, so they've turned away from even discussing God. They use their theology simply to make comments about the world situation. Theology today, they do not even discuss deity.

Hṛdayānanda: Sometimes they argue that "God has revealed Himself within my heart, so I don't need to read any books because I have a special connection with God."

Prabhupāda: But your revelation and my revelation different. Why?

Hṛdayānanda: "Because God has so many different aspects that He reveals a different aspect to everyone."

Prabhupāda: That is their argument. Then what is the standard of that aspect? Just like in the material world we see, somebody richer than others. This is also aspect of material situation. So if one is millionaire, he is better than a person who has got a few coins. So similarly, your realization of God and my realization of God, different. So I may be greater realized than you. What do you say, theologian?

Morning Walk -- December 8, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So maturity, you must give what is that standard God, if it is mature. Mature means you must give the real standard. That is mature. But if nobody of you can give the what is the real standard, then how it is mature? Bali Mardana Prabhu, what do you think? Mature means the final conclusion. Just like in scientific theory. All the scientists come into conclusion, "Yes, this is the..."

Bali Mardana: It's just an excuse because they don't know.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes, they don't know. That's it.

Karandhara: No, they've just become mature atheists.

Prabhupāda: Mature atheists, yes.

Karandhara: Even though... at most they say God just means goodness or truth.

Prabhupāda: But they do not know what is that goodness. They have no knowledge what is the standard of goodness. Somebody is cutting the throat; he's also good. And somebody is very sober; he is also good. So what is the standard of goodness?

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Light year. That is beyond our estimation. And that, such forty thousand. But it is just in your front. We see so many stars out there. You cannot go. Even if you can go, are you going to live for forty thousand light years? So what is your power? Why you are so much proud.

Karandhara: They have a theory that if they can get a, if they can get a machine to go at the speed of light...

Prabhupāda: That, that is their... That is rascaldom. They'll say like that, but nobody has become able, neither they are able.

Karandhara: They say they can stop time.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Karandhara: They say if you travel at the speed of light, time stops.

Prabhupāda: Time stops... Anyway, nobody has gone. They have gone to the nearest planet, they say. I do not know whether they have gone at all.

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1973, Los Angeles:

Yaśomatīnandana: You don't think, Prabhupāda, they have reached the moon?

Prabhupāda: No. There are so many invisible planets. Not that all the stars and planets, you can see, just like Rāhu planet. That is not seen. And when the Rāhu planet passes through, that is eclipse, but they describe in a different way. Actually, it is the Rāhu planet which passes before the sun and moon and there is eclipse. There are so many questionable things of the theory that, the eclipse theory of the modern view. That is not correct according to Vedic theory.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The eclipse?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But the science proves it.

Prabhupāda: Science proves everything. That is their nonsense. They, amongst their community, they have proved everything except what he is, he does not know. Except that thing, what he is, he does, he does not know. And why he dies. He does not know. That is his knowledge.

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. You say that it is a combination of such and such chemicals... Just like these rascals say, "Life..." Now he said that "You take the chemicals. Can you produce?" He said, "That I cannot say." You see? Avoiding the issue. This was discussed in the meeting. What is that gentleman?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Professor Stanley Miller. He's from San Diego, physicist.

Prabhupāda: Miller. Yes, he has got Nobel Prize. And his theory is that from chemicals, life has begun. So he said in the meeting that "If I give you the chemicals, can you produce life?" He said, "That I cannot say." Just see. And he has got Nobel Prize. He has no pure idea, still he has received the Nobel Prize.

Prajāpati: Number one speculator.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Prajāpati: They're giving prize to the number one speculator.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's all. Jugglery of words. That's all. Speculation means jugglery of words. Just like doctors prescribe. They give the medicine, and then water mixed. So they will never say "water" because ordinary people will understand. They'll write "aqua distillata." So ordinary man cannot understand whether it is water or medicine. But that is water. But they'll... So these scientists, they'll manufacture some word which you cannot understand... "Vyāghra mane śārdūla." One student asked the teacher, "What is the meaning of 'vyāghra' ?" He said, "Śārdūla." It is still difficult. You see ? This is going on.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Not sectarian. You do not know. Why do you say sectarian? How it is sectarian?

Devotee (1): They say that it represents...

Prabhupāda: We are preaching God consciousness. So is it not for everyone? God consciousness is sectarian? Is it meant for certain sect? Or it is meant for human beings?

Hṛdayānanda: The difficulty is that nowadays every common man has his own God..., theory of God consciousness.

Prabhupāda: No, no, every common man he says "I got my mathematics." Will he be accepted?

Hṛdayānanda: No.

Prabhupāda: So why these things should be allowed? That is our proposition. Every man will say, "No, I've got my own mathematics." Will he be allowed? So we have to fight, otherwise what is the meaning of preaching?

Hṛdayānanda: Fight.

Prabhupāda: If you think that everything will be accepted very easily, then what is the necessity of preaching?

Hṛdayānanda: Jaya!

Prabhupāda: And propaganda.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Hṛdayānanda: Jaya, Prabhupāda! As your example.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We do not expect that everyone will agree. Everybody will disagree. Just like our book. Say, four, five years ago, nobody knew these books. So there was no market. But we have created our market. That is preaching. We have created our market. Nobody was dying for want of these books. So that is preaching. Preaching does not mean everyone is ready to accept your theories. You must expect that everyone will not accept it. Now it is your power to convince him, "Yes, you must accept." That is preaching.

Hṛdayānanda: Jaya, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: They must know what is God, how to trust Him, why we shall trust God, what is the benefit. These things should be known, properly educated.

Morning Walk -- December 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But when the cells, my cells in the body, they are not working, my soul goes away. As so long as I am here...

Prabhupāda: That is your theory that because the cells were working, the man was living. That is your theory. But our theory is that because he was there, the cells were working. That is our theory. Because the soul was there, therefore the cells were working. But you take... That I have already explained. You take the cause as effect, and effect as... Because you have no sufficient knowledge. Therefore in illusion, you take the cause as effect or effect as cause. You do not know what is the cause and what is the effect.

Prajāpati: But the doctors, they can say, "Oh, this man has disease of the blood. He will die in six months."

Prabhupāda: That is experience. Suppose if I can say that "If you go hundred feet, then you'll fall in the water," is that very good scientific knowledge? It is a question of experience. Why do you take it as wonderful? "Oh, he said that if you go a hundred yards, you'll fall in the water. Now I have fallen in the water." That is your foolishness. Any fool can say like that. He must have little experience, that's all. That is not very wonderful thing. Neither it is creation by him. Experience.

Morning Walk -- December 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is another rascaldom. Why God should share the sufferings of man?

Candanācārya: I asked him this, and he said, "So that man would accept more as reality, suffering."

Prabhupāda: Very good theologician. A rascal number one. You are trying for becoming happy, and his theory is that man will accept suffering. You see? The very proposition is rascaldom. Everyone is trying for to become happy. That is progress. Ātyantika. In Sanskrit it is called ātyantika-duḥkha-nivṛttiḥ. There is suffering, and our struggle for existence means to, I mean to say, mitigate the suffering, to minimize or to make it nil. That is our struggle. We are not submitting to suffering. Then what is the civilization? What is human civilization: We don't want suffering. That is our position. Why this rascal says that "We shall suffer"? Just see. The theologician is a rascal. Therefore we say everyone rascal.

Prajāpati: The same theologician, Prabhupāda, he calls himself an atheist theist.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Candanācārya: He said, "I am an atheist theist."

Prabhupāda: Atheist theist? What is this?

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: There is no chance. That is rascaldom. There is no chance. There is no chance.

Karandhara: By their theory of evolution, selectivity, that whatever develops, develops out of necessity, but not out of design.

Prabhupāda: No, there is design. They do not know it. Mayādhyakṣeṇa (BG 9.10). It is said in the Bhaga... Adhyakṣeṇa means "under My superintendence." That means under some plan. What is the plan of this material world? The plan of material world is that some rascals, living entities, they wanted to enjoy. So God has given this plan, "All right, you enjoy." This is the plan. And not only enjoy. "You enjoy; again come back." This is the plan. Pravṛtti-nivṛtti. First of all he is given that "All right, you take all facilities of enjoyment." Therefore Veda is that "You enjoy like this, and after you have fulfilled your enjoyment, come back again." This is God mercy.

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: There is need. (break) ...not falling down. Why the law of gravitation is violated?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They say the cells are alive when the...

Prabhupāda: They say. They have got this cell theory. Therefore under condition, this law of gravitation works. It is not unconditional. Then the question is who will make the condition?

Karandhara: Well, they say that the green apple's not falling is just a case of an opposite factor being stronger than the pull of gravity. The strength of the twig holding the apple on is stronger than the pull of gravity.

Prabhupāda: That I say, that the law of gravitation acts under certain conditions. This is also conditional.

Karandhara: Well, the law of gravitation is always working, the energy is always there. It is just not strong enough to pull the apple down.

Prabhupāda: Working under condition. Working under condition. Just like you take a little needle, it will go immediately down the water, and you give a big log, it will not go. The weight of the needle and the weight of the big log, much different. Still, the needle will go; the gravitation will work. But to the log it will not work.

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The calculation is given.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Every planet is described, what is the constitution, what are the forms of the living entities there. Everything is there. Bhāgavata never says that "These, all the other planets are vacant. Only this planet is full of living entities." Bhāgavata is not so rascal. These rascals may say. Their theory is that "All other planets, they are vacant. Only this planet is filled with..." This rascal theory is not in the Bhāgavata. We see that there is living entity in the water. There is living entity within the sand. How you can say there is no living entity in other planets?

Rūpānuga: They say that "Life as we know it here does not exist." Human life.

Prabhupāda: No, how you can say so? The condition is the same. Every planet is made of earth, water, air, fire, the five elements. So if under these condition there are living entities in this planet, why not in that condition living entities in other planets? That is their ignorance. That is their bluff. The different condition of the planets is that some planet is fiery, some planet is gaseous, some planet is watery. That may be, but after all, they are made of these five elements. And each element, we find there is living entity. So it may be mixture or pure, there must be living entities. And in Bhagavad-gītā it is said sarva-ga. Even in the fire there is living entities. And why not? If living entities can stay in water, why not in fire?

Rūpānuga: On the sun planet.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Girirāja: Most of the things in their theories they also have not seen.

Prabhupāda: They have so many things. They simply speak like rascals. Therefore our conclusion is: Anyone who does not know what is God, he is a rascal. That is perfection of knowledge. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). These rascals, they do not know that all knowledge is imperfect unless he comes to the platform of knowing God. All knowledge imperfect. And that is confirmed in the Bhagavad..., bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate: (BG 7.19) "When he (is) actually wise in knowledge, then he surrenders to God." That is knowledge. That is knowledge. One who has surrendered to God, one who has known God, one who is abiding by the order of God, he is the perfect man. All others, they are rascals.

Morning Walk -- December 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: He is a rascal.

Karandhara: Another very prominent... He's a psychiatrist and a theologian. His name is Menninger. So about ten years ago he wrote a book that the conception of sin and evil was unnecessary, and one should give up considering that some things are sins. Now he just wrote a book saying that he was wrong, that since he has promoted this theory everyone is degrading, and that the theory of sin and evil should be maintained to keep the people in good order.

Prabhupāda: So these rascals will change every year their theology. So what is the value of their words? Childish. (break) ...changes, he is a rascal. That is our... We say, "Kṛṣṇa the Supreme." We never change it. And "Surrender is the only process." We shall never change it. In any circumstance we will not change it. That is the difference. And these rascals will change every year their opinion. They are rascals. (break) ...They are rascals. (break) Kṛṣṇa said that "I am the Supreme." So Arjuna accepted, the Supreme. All the ācāryas accepted the Supreme. Caitanya Mahāprabhu accepted, Supreme. My Guru Mahārāja accepted, Supreme. I am accepting, Supreme. I am teaching the same thing. So there is no change. Not that after a few years it will be changed. That never be. That is our position. (break) Changing means material. Anything material is susceptible to change. Like this material body. I am changing my body, but I am the spirit soul. I am not changing. That is the difference. So all these so-called theologicians, they have no idea what is spiritual knowledge. All rascals. They cannot understand what is God. That I have explained. Simply speculating. It will not help. (break) (Hindi) (some Indian people have joined the walk) Now we are talking of one theologician. Some years ago just... Narrate the... Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So that is not perfect.

Guest (1): And when they see that the conditions and the things in the world as they are, they don't fit in with their theories, then they change their theories.

Prabhupāda: No. So they are opportunists. They are not learned scholar. Our proposition is that five thousand years ago Kṛṣṇa taught that "I am the Supreme." So Arjuna accepted, paraṁ brahma, paraṁ dhāma: (BG 10.12) "Yes, You are Supreme." Then all the ācāryas later on, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, even Śaṅkarācārya, all accepted. "Yes," kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). Then after that, ācārya system, Lord Caitanya accepted, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord." So after Caitanya, five hundred years, all the ācāryas, they are accepting. So we are accepting or teaching the same thing. No change, no change. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yam. If there is change, that is not nitya, that is not śāśvata. That is circumstantial. That is material.

Morning Walk -- December 29, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Astronomy, yes. Astrology is part of astronomy. Yes.

Sujit: It's part of the science. It has been accepted as part of the science.

Prabhupāda: No, it is...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Astrological science is mostly speculative theory.

Prabhupāda: Astronomy also.

Sujit: They are proving a lot of things. They are calculating when a certain star can be in certain positions.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, that can be done.

Prabhupāda: So our astrology is calculated by the position of the stars. By astronomy you calculate the position of the star, and they know, "If the star is in such and such position, the result will be like this." That is astrology.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: This looks like collecting some facts from some experience.

Prabhupāda: No, no. It is calculated by the astral movement. It is a great science. People do not know it now.

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Well, in politics, unless there is violence, you cannot take. Simply by sweet words, not possible. That was the difference between our political leaders, Mahatma Gandhi and Subhash Chandra Bose. So Subhash Chandra Bose was of opinion that—and that is a fact—that "You are agitating non-violence. These people will never care for your non-violence. Unless there is violence, so these Britishers will never go away." So Gandhi would say, "No, I am not going to accept this violence theory. I shall continue." So for thirty years... He started from 1917 and up to '47, the Britishers did not go. But when Subhash Chandra Bose, he saw... He took the political power. He became the president. But Gandhi was angry. So because he was old leader, out of respect, he resigned the presidentship. Then he though that "So long this man will live, there will be no independence." So he went out of India and joined with Hitler, and Tojo, Japanese.

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Nara-nārāyaṇa: The food and the sand looks exactly the same. So how they are immediately able to tell which is which?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just see their intelligence. You are very much proud of your intelligence. Just see their intelligence. Everyone is intelligent. Therefore actual intelligence is he who knows Kṛṣṇa. He does not know Kṛṣṇa. He has got intelligence. You cannot deny that. But he cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. That is the defect. You have got intelligence; you can understand Kṛṣṇa. So if you don't use your intelligence for understanding Kṛṣṇa, you are nothing but cats and dogs. Kṛpaṇa. They are called kṛpaṇas. Kṛpaṇa means miser. One has got money, but he does not know how to utilize it. He is called kṛpaṇa, miser. They are so rascal that they cannot conceive that there is something as God and He can be known. Hopeless. That is the real point. Otherwise why so many scientists are...? They know, "This is idea only. There is nothing like God. So let us put our theories." That's all. That is your business, theology. They are so rubbish. That was the first publication in (the Village) Voice paper. They wrote when I first began in 1965 that "We thought that God is dead, but Swamiji has brought God with kīrtana." They admitted this. I think the paper, you have got copy. You can see it. It said exactly like this, that "We thought God is dead, but here we see, Bhaktivedanta Swami has brought God in kīrtana." That's it.

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: We have all the theology then. This is theology.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You present Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in true perspective. Then it will be perfection of your education. The so-called theologicians, they cannot understand God. It is not possible. That is not the way, that "I put my theory." He does not understand his value first, that "What is the value of my theory? If I am imperfect, so what is the value of my theory?" He does not understand the first principle, and he puts theory. Another rascal, he is putting theory. So what is the value of these theories?

Nara-nārāyaṇa: Actually they are simply selling their theories. Whoever will buy it, they are selling it to.

Prabhupāda: Another rascal is buying. We are not buying. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam amalaṁ purāṇam, spotless knowledge, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Amalam. Amalam means without any spot. (break) ...of God is given in the dictionary, "Supreme Being." That is very nice. Everywhere we see that on the top there is a supreme being, just like in your state, the president. So why not this big government, a Supreme Being? Where is the difficulty? Without something supreme, controller, things cannot go nicely. Otherwise why you select a president? Why you select a supreme being and give him all power that "Your order will be final"? Why you do that? Because you want the government must go on nicely. Otherwise there is no need of electing a president. So supreme being must be there, in every management.

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: All right.

Karandhara: Walk down here.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's all right. They say, "Conservation of energy." So why there is crisis? Find out the reservoir and find out the energy. That is the scientific theory, "conservation of energy." Find out where the energy comes from. When it is finished, so I ask, "Just go to the kitchen. Find out some more to eat." So that is the source of energy. You find out the source of energy. Then there is no crisis. (laughter) But the rascals they do not know where the puri is being made. He is going to the privy. (laughter) "Might be puri here." That is their mistake. He does not know the puri is being supplied from the kitchen, not from the latrine. That is their mistake. Instead of going to the kitchen they are going to the latrine. Their advancement of knowledge is up to latrine. That's all. That is the Vedānta information. The conservation of energy if first explained in the Bhāgavata: janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), that here is... (break) (end)

Morning Walk -- December 31, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...theologician?

Prajāpati: Here I am, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: No theory?

Prajāpati: Actually, I was concerned this morning about inflation. The government and the newspapers, they say the biggest problem today is inflation. From our Kṛṣṇa conscious standpoint, how can we cure this problem of inflation?

Prabhupāda: It is very simple. Don't accept paper currency. It must be gold or some metal worth. Just like one dollar, it must be worth one dollar metal. Then it is solved. But they want to cheat. How it can be solved? Because if I pay you one dollar, I must pay you value for one dollar. But it is the cheating process is going on, "I pay you one dollar, a piece of paper. That's all." So you accept cheating, and I also cheat. Government allows. So how the problem can be solved? It is cheating. But the government allows it as law. And you accept, I accept. Then how they can be solved, solution? This is the solution.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Nāsato vidyate bhāvo nā..., asataḥ vidyate bhāvaḥ. What is the next line? So, we take things which is conclusive. The scientists, they are making experiment, where is the beginning of life. Misled. They are thinking life is from matter. They have no experience. Still, the rascal Darwin gave a theory. They are persisting on it. They have no practical experience that life is coming from matter. That is called vṛścika-taṇḍula-nyāya. You have no experience in your country. We have got. Sometimes you'll find, scorpion is coming out from the stack of rice. You have seen it?

Karandhara: I haven't seen it, but I have heard of the example.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So they are thinking the rice is..., rice is producing the scorpion. It is called taṇḍula-vṛścika-nyāya. But rice cannot produce a life. The real fact is a scorpion lays down the egg within the rice, and by the fermentation it comes out. Just eggs. And the small creature comes out. And foolish creatures, they think it that the rice is producing scorpion. That is not possible. So they are putting forward this evolution theory that man is coming from monkey, but no monkey is producing a man. Nobody has seen. There are so many things. They put forward some theory, but it is not fact.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: And therefore, mental speculators, they have been condemned. Manorathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). Because they carry on, or they are carried by the chariot of mind, manorathena. Manorathena asati. Manoratha, when you drive on the chariot of mind, you cannot get any fixed idea. Because mind is flickering. Saṅkalpa-vikalpa. Mind's business is "Accept this, and again reject it." So all these speculators are doing. Somebody is putting forward some theory, and after some years he will himself reject or somebody else will reject. So manorathena, by mental speculation, you remain on the material platform. You cannot get any spiritual idea. Therefore harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. Anyone who is not in the spiritual platform... Spiritual platform means to be a devotee of the Lord. The Māyāvādīs, because they are not devotees of the Lord, they are not on the spiritual platform. They are on the material platform. They are speculating, spirit—"something negation of matter." That's all. That is mental speculation. It is bad. "Good means negation of bad." They are thinking like that. They do not know, in this material world, bad and good are both the same thing. Because it is matter. That they do not know. They think, "This is bad, this is good." But they do not know, materially conceived anything, good or bad, they are the same thing. That they do not know.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Manorathena, yes. Manorathena means if you remain on that platform, then you have to reject again. Just they are doing, the so-called scientists, philosophers. They are putting forward some theory, and after some time they reject it. So if you remain on the mental platform, then this business of accepting and rejecting will go on. You'll never come to a conclusion. Therefore one has to rise to the spiritual platform. That is nityaḥ śāśvato 'yam, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). That is eternal, everlasting.

Prajāpati: Not a theory.

Prabhupāda: No. Yes.

Umāpati: They just constantly speculate on the material nature.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Umāpati: They speculate on the material nature.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Number of zeroes never make one. It is zero. You add thousands of zeroes, one after another, the value will be zero. Not one.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But there is a theory, Śrīla Prabhupāda... Not theory. It's a fact, that if some number is raised to the power zero, that becomes one. In mathematics.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But I am speaking that you combine millions of zeroes. That will never become one. That I am speaking. Zero is zero. Zero plus zero equal to zero. Zero minus zero equal to zero. Zero multiplied zero, zero. Zero divided by zero, zero. That's all. Where you get...? And by the side of zero, if you bring one, eko brahma, immediately it will become ten. And add another zero, immediately hundred, ten times increased. That one must be there, one God. Then zero increases value. Similarly, this material world is zero, but if there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then it is valuable. Then it is valuable.

Prajāpati: But that manorathena, the chariot of the mind, that is never valuable.

Prabhupāda: No, it has no value.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Manorathena asati dhāvato bahiḥ. By mental speculation, you will remain on this asati, in this temporary field. Asat means "which will not exist." Anything in this material world, you take, that will not exist. Anywhere man can say. The skyscraper building is constructed, but everyone knows that it will not exist. Some day it will fall down. Everyone knows. It will never exist. That is explained by Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad-gītā, that "If you think that by combination of matter, life has come, so life was not there before the combination. And this combination will dismantle. So life, there will be no more life. So why these three period you are lamenting? There is life." Because according to this theory—"The combination of matter makes life"—so before combination there was no life, and the combination dismantled, there is no life. So beginning and end no life. Why you are lamenting in the middle? Very good reasoning. Just see. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja says, māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). Māyā-sukhāya, that illusory, illusory happiness. Māyā-sukhāya. And for that reason, they are making huge, gorgeous arrangement and working day and night, which will be zero. It has begun from zero and it will end into zero. In the middle they are busy. Just see. Therefore vimūḍhān.

Morning Walk -- January 22, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: ..."Unless we see." But you see, but you cannot go. Your argument is, "Unless we see," but you are seeing there is another planet, so many hundred and thousands, millions of planets. But you cannot go there. That is your inefficiency. How can you say? Because your theory is "I must see," but you cannot go there. First of all, admit your inefficiency. Why you conclude, what is it called, abruptly, without seeing. Because seeing is your experience. But you cannot go and see. Why you are trying to go to the moon planet? Just to see. Similarly, there are so many other planets, but you are not efficient to go and see. How can you conclude?

Nitāi: Well, they don't conclude. They say, there may be possibility of higher life.

Prabhupāda: So that's all right. Maybe...

Satsvarūpa: Agnostic, "There may be; we don't know."

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Satsvarūpa: "There may be God, but we don't know."

Prabhupāda: That you don't know, but if somebody knows... That is not a proof, that because you cannot see. That is not proof.

Morning Walk -- January 22, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: That you don't know, but if somebody knows... That is not a proof, that because you cannot see. That is not proof.

Nitāi: No. They just... They make this theory based on the fact that the most advanced that they've seen so far is man.

Prabhupāda: Who is advanced? Nobody is advanced unless one has seen or known God. That is actually advancement. They're putting so many theories... I have not seen. Why shall I believe you? You are talking so many nonsense which is not in my experience. Why shall I believe you? Hm?

Nitāi: Well, then they, then they'll tell you that, "Well, come and we'll show you this experiment."

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Nitāi: We show you these experiments, and then you can see too.

Prabhupāda: What is that experience? You show, make experiment, that from the monkey's body a man is coming. Show me the experiment. Nobody has seen the experiment.

Morning Walk -- January 22, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: That is your concoction. We get so many literatures. Huh? The Bhāgavata literature, five thousand years old. You have no history beyond three thousand years. Neither even at the present moment you have got such nice literature. When you say that people are very much advanced, who has produced such literature? Where is a book like Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam or Bhagavad-gītā, whole world? If you say that this book was written, say 1,500 years ago, but where is a similar literature in any other part of the world? Eh? Is there a similar literature? Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa...

Satsvarūpa: When Darwin's theory was first being taught in America, there was opposition from the Christians, and there was a famous court trial called the Scopes case, and the Bible was used to, against this so-called scientific theory. But the Bible is so inadequate that they lost.

Prabhupāda: Yeah, Bible cannot be because it is itself unscientific.

Satsvarūpa: The lawyer proved that the Bible could not disprove the Darwin's theory.

Prabhupāda: Then why do they not reject Bible altogether?

Nitāi: Sentiment.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Why do they not reject? Why still? Of course, it is sentiment. They do not accept Bible. The so-called Christians, they do not accept Bible.

Morning Walk -- January 22, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Then the spiritual master has to go every time, to fall down? Because people will touch. That is natural. And he has to jump over the water every time?

Nitāi: In the purport you gave recommendation that generally it is not a good practice to let them, unless they are at least your devotees.

Prabhupāda: Generally, it is not practiced, but if people come, how can you check them? (pause) So we were talking about Darwin's theory, eh? What is that?

Nitāi: It is survival of the fittest, his evolutionary theory?

Prabhupāda: Now, we talked about that if you do not take my documentary, what is called, evidence, why shall I take your documentary?

Bali Mardana: I think the only reason it is accepted is because it was very popular among the atheists. They said, "Oh, yes, let us support this idea."

Prabhupāda: Yes, but there is theist class also.

Bali Mardana: So whatever we put forward is at least if, is more authoritative than what they can propose 'cause ours is based on śāstra.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Room Conversation -- February 13, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That's impossible. So this is a wrong theory. Because I am a living entity, I have got my activities. I can remain void for few seconds, for few minutes. (Guests enter and pay obeisances) Very glad to see you. (indistinct—break)

Dr. Kapoor: As I understand (indistinct). The export minister (indistinct). (indistinct) C. D. Gupta, the old chief minister, you see. He is coming and I take they have arranged a program in his honor. I don't know how they will make this program fit in. I don't think..., huh? (break)

Prabhupāda: In the road they are announcing that Śrī Bhaktivedanta Swami American śiṣyas...

Dr. Kapoor: I heard the announcement but that was on the (indistinct) hari-nāma-saṅkīrtana (indistinct). You have your (indistinct)?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): You said this population is increasing. According to Hindu theory, we say that human life is very difficult and you get this human birth after great karmas and good deeds and all that. So this population is increasing and we are putting the birth control; and then the population of beasts and others that, the wild beasts, that is decreasing, although almost it has decreased.

Prabhupāda: But they have no birth control.

Guest (1): No, no, just see. And then you see the population of these, for instance, chickens, pigs, and those, they have increased. So the population of human being that is increasing, is it due to these wild animals and other they have done good deeds, so they are coming up as a human being?

Prabhupāda: First thing is, I am asking you, why you are bothering about the increase of population? First, that is my question. The animals, they do not bother. You are so advanced in knowledge. Why you are bothering? First of all answer this question.

Morning Walk -- March 2, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Gurukṛpā: From the Ganges?

Jayapatākā: What is this land? (?) (break)

Prabhupāda: "...near the brahma-jyotir, I don't want. Now I have merged." This is Māyāvāda theory.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is all that silt from the Ganges River, Prabhupāda.

Jayapatākā: This man, he wants to sell this land, seventeen bighās, for seven hundred rupees. (break)

Madhudviṣa: How is that possible?

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Madhudviṣa: How is the Ganges flowing through the planetary systems?

Prabhupāda: So? It is not possible?

Madhudviṣa: I don't know. It is possible, but it is incomprehensible.

Prabhupāda: Everything is incomprehensible. How the planets are floating in this air?

Madhudviṣa: Because Kṛṣṇa is in them.

Prabhupāda: Then, similarly, Kṛṣṇa desires; everything is possible.

Morning Walk -- March 3, 1974, Mayapura:

Nitāi: What's the story behind the rediscovery of Māyāpur?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Nitāi: Is there some story related to the way in which Māyāpur was found by Jagannātha dāsa Bābājī?

Prabhupāda: The Ganges is going sometimes that side, then this side. So it was under the impression that original Caitanya Mahāprabhu's birthsite is now under water. Or there were many theories and suggestions. Later on, Jagannātha dāsa Bābājī said that "Here is the..." Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Nitāi: In previous days, it was a very big city.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Indian: Ācchā. (end)

Morning Walk -- March 6, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...sness movement is all-embracing, all problems. People should carefully study and take it. Then they will be happy. Otherwise all plans are nonsense, the scientists, the philosophers, the... All rascals. Māyayā apahṛta-jñānāḥ. They appear to be very learned, but māyā has killed them already. They have no knowledge. Māyayā apahṛta-jñānāḥ. Just see. Why? Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ (BG 7.15). Life is created by God. They'll not accept. "Life is created from dirt." That's all. Māyayā apahṛta-jñānāḥ. Where is the instance that you create life by chemicals? "That we shall see in the future." Kick him immediately on his face with boot. Rascal. Will you accept any check, "It will be paid in future?" Will you accept? So why shall I accept this rascal's theory? If somebody gives me check, one million dollar, payable three hundred years after, shall I be inclined to accept such check? So why these fools accepting this post-dated check?

Viṣṇujana: Prabhupāda, they say they've already done so much. The scientists will say...

Prabhupāda: What they have done? What they have done? Why people are starving? What you have done?

Viṣṇujana: But they'll say we have created so much machineries and gone to the moon.

Prabhupāda: You cannot eat machine. You produce. You produce rice, wheat in the machine. What you have done? You have simply misled the people that instead of tilling the ground, they have come to machine, and there is no food.

Morning Walk -- March 23, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...commissioner is not the politician. Why do you mix them?

Dr. Patel: But Kṛṣṇa was never a politician. He was a...

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. That is a wrong theory. This is a wrong theory. You can approach somebody through somebody, but they are two, individual persons. (break) ...He is bhakta, yes.

Dr. Patel: "I am enjoyer of all the yajñas to whom, whatever and to whomever you are doing." How would you accept that...

Prabhupāda: No, no. The king. The king is the proprietor of all taxes. But he's not a tax collector.

Dr. Patel: Now, now, Chando Bhai, come here.

Prabhupāda: The king...

Guest (3) (Indian man): What do you want?

Prabhupāda: ...is the proprietor...

Dr. Patel: Ahaṁ hi sarva-bhoktānāṁ bhakto māṁ parameśvaram (?).

Prabhupāda: Just like the king, and there are many tax collectors. So tax goes to the king.

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is not Māyāvāda. But the Śaṅkarācārya's interpretation is that ghaṭākāśa-potakasa (?), ghaṭākāśa-potakasa (?). Just like within the pot there is ākāśa. And outside the ākāśa, outside the pot, there is ākāśa. When the pot is broken, both the ākāśa becomes one.

Guest (1): One, yes.

Prabhupāda: That is his theory.

Guest (1): That is his theory. That is my...

Prabhupāda: But he does not accept that individuality.

Guest (1): Ghaṭākāśa is not... Ghaṭākāśa is not...

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: If he does not... (Sanskrit)

Prabhupāda: Eh? No...

Dr. Patel: There is only one ākāśa. There cannot be multiple ākāśas.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no.

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Asaṁśayaḥ means at the present moment...

Guest (1): Without any doubts.

Prabhupāda: No... People are in doubt whether there is God, or "If there is God, He might have died by this time." So there are so many... (laughs) Yes. When I first went to U.S.A., the theory was "God is dead." But when I began to speak, they realized, "No, God is not dead. God is with Swamiji." They wrote. They wrote articles. So asaṁśayaṁ...

Mr. Sar: Samagraṁ māṁ. From all aspects.

Prabhupāda: From all aspects. Yathā jñāsyasi tac chṛṇu. So Kṛṣṇa is speaking about Himself. We can speculate about God. That way we'll never be successful. Because we have got limited senses. Therefore you hear from Kṛṣṇa about Kṛṣṇa. This is called bhakti-yoga.

Mr. Sar: And He wants to tell the jñānaṁ te 'haṁ sa-vijñānam (BG 7.2). "What I have realized, I tell you."

Prabhupāda: No, not realized!

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Just like practical science. If you want to pass B.A. examination, you have to appear for theoretical and practical, both.

Dr. Patel: Theory and practice both.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So this bhakti-yoga means to know God, at the same time, practically employ yourself in the service of God, or in the transaction between God and yourself. That is vijñānam. Sa-vijñānam.

Guest (1): What is the distinction between jñāna and vijñāna?

Prabhupāda: Jñāna means theoretical knowledge, and vijñāna means practical knowledge. Simply to know "God is great," that is not sufficient.

Guest (1): No, that is theoretical.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is theoretical. You must know how great He is. That we have to learn from the śāstras, from the guru, how great He is. Just like in the Brahma-saṁhitā, Vedic, yato vā imāni bhūtāni jāyante. He's the source of all material elements. In Him everything stays, and after annihilation, everything goes into Him. This is one understanding. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13).

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Ah, tattvataḥ. They do not know. They say,"Kṛṣṇa is nirākāra." God is nirākāra. "I am as good as God." These theories, encumbrous theories... because they do not know. Yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3).

Dr. Patel: Kaścin māṁ vetti...

Mr. Sar: Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ...

Prabhupāda: So when one has come to this knowledge perfectly, that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul, ahaṁ brahmāsmi," that is brahma-bhūta stage. So, so after brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20) stage, there are so many other things. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu (BG 18.54).

Dr. Patel: Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu.

Prabhupāda: These bhūteṣu.

Mr. Sar: Mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām.

Prabhupāda: Then he comes to the bhakti-yoga. Not that only daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā, not dhani-nārāyaṇa-sevā.

Dr. Patel: You came out with that.

Prabhupāda: No, no that is, that is the deficiency. If daridra is Nārāyaṇa, why not the dhani?

Dr. Patel: Again, we are not (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: No, no, we have to accept. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. A devotee is equal. Either he's daridra-nārāyaṇa or dhani-nārāyaṇa.

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And that has been commented by Dr. Rādhākrishnan. When Kṛṣṇa says that man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65), he says that "It is not to the Kṛṣṇa person, but what is within Him. Within Him." That means he is under the theory that Kṛṣṇa's body is māyā. So you haven't got to surrender to the body of Kṛṣṇa. But this fool does not know that there is no such distinction in Kṛṣṇa.

Mr. Sar: Avyaktaṁ vyaktim āpannam manyante mām...

Prabhupāda: Ah! No, Kṛṣṇa has no such distinction as body and soul. Prakṛtiṁ svām adhiṣṭhāya. He comes in His own, original body. Sambhavāmi yuge... Prakṛtiṁ svām. Not this prakṛti. Svām, the spiritual body. That they do not take.

Mr. Sar: Paraṁ bhāvam ajānanto mamāvyayam anuttamam.

Prabhupāda: Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ (BG 9.11). That Kṛṣṇa is so powerful that He can come in a spiritual body. Otherwise how He remembers millions of years. If His body's changing, it is material, then how He can remember?

Mr. Sar: Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga-māyā... (BG 7.25).

Prabhupāda: Ah. Yogamāyā-samāvṛtaḥ... Therefore He's not manifest except to the devotee.

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now visṛjāmi. The Gods, He creates. Here they comes. The rascals, they do not believe it, that "There is no creator." The Jains, they do not believe it, that creator has done it. "It has come automatically." Buddhist philosophy is like that, that "Everything is coming by combination..."

Dr. Patel: Prakṛti and puruṣa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is wrong theory. Actually, He says visṛjāmi, ahaṁ visṛjāmi: "I do."

Dr. Patel: Prakṛtiṁ svām avaṣṭabhya: "Controlling my prakṛti."

Prabhupāda: Avaṣṭabhya, now entering.

Dr. Patel: "Entering into My prakṛti, I am sṛjāmi, punaḥ punaḥ."

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. He is outside; He is inside.

Indian: And then leave it in the control of the prakṛti, prakṛter vaśāt, avaṣaṁ prakṛter vaṣāt. Bhūta-grāmam imaṁ kṛtsnam avaṣām prakṛter vaśāt.

Prabhupāda: Bhūta-grāmam, not He.

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: "And I am ātmā, Guḍākeśa. I am ātmā. Therefore, because My part and parcel is spreading, so that part and parcel, particle, that is the basic principle of everything." Just like this body. This body is based on that part and particle, soul. Because the soul was there, the body has developed.

Dr. Patel: Otherwise body would perish. It does rot.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The body develops so long the ātmā is there. So similarly, because Kṛṣṇa is there, therefore whatever manifestation you see, that is due to Kṛṣṇa. Now here the latest theory of the rascals, that life has come from matter, is refuted.

Dr. Patel: That is Carvaka's theory, this Karl Marx, the communists.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now He says aham. Aham is living entity. So living entity is the origin of everything.

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But just like Kṛṣṇa says, "They are just like moon." Just see. Nakṣatrāṇām ahaṁ śaśi. So śaśi means the moon. Moon is like one of the stars. So if you say the stars are sūrya, then there is contradiction. How the moon and the sun can be equal? But actually, that is not. According to our Vedic astronomy, there is one sun only in one universe, although there are millions of universes, we cannot count. So there are millions of suns. That is another thing. But within the universe there is only one sun, and by the brilliance of sunshine, all these stars and moons are glittering. Just like moon shining, being reflected by the sun, similarly, all the stars they are glittering, being reflected by the sun, not that all of them are different suns. This theory is refuted.

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. So because Arjuna was not accustomed to this impersonal theory...

Dr. Patel: Even the pastime, rūpa vi...(?)

Prabhupāda: Yes. But he wanted to see the virāṭ-rūpa. Therefore he said, "If you think that I shall be able to see, then You can give me."

Dr. Patel: Shall I read further?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Śrī bhagavān uvāca, paśya me pārtha rūpāṇi śataśo 'tha... (BG 11.5)

Prabhupāda: So it was not difficult for him. Immediately He showed him. That is Kṛṣṇa. Not that "I shall show you some day privately."

Morning Walk -- April 6, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So? (break) ...civilization.

Bhāgavata: You are giving all the information, cent percent.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...win's theory is that from that lower animals to go to the higher animals, but in the creation we find Brahmā is the first creation. So he is the topmost intelligent man.

Bhāgavata: Is there anything in the Vedic literature which supports Darwin's theory?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not Darwin's theory. Darwin's theory is no explanation that whose evolution? Evolution is of the soul. The soul is changing in different bodies, one body better than the other. That kind of evolution.

Acyutānanda: Darwin has no individual evolution, but the evolution of a species, like, they say, there were horses. And then when they had eaten up all the food on the ground, so they started to get the food on the trees. So their necks became longer. And those with longer necks lived, and the others died. So then there were the giraffes. So they moved like that. "Survival of the fittest." That's his theory. Then the more intelligent animals will live more than the less intelligent. So they will die out and then they will be up to the human. But that doesn't explain why there are still lower species of life, that why are there still animals?

Girirāja: (reads) "...we are given the histories of Kṛṣṇa's appearances and disappearances millions and billions of years ago. In the Fourth Chapter of the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa tells Arjuna that both he and Arjuna had many births before, and that He, Kṛṣṇa, could remember all of them and that Arjuna could not. This illustrates the difference between the knowledge of Kṛṣṇa and that of Arjuna. Arjuna might have been a very great warrior, a well-cultured member of the Kuru dynasty..." (break)

Acyutānanda: In the last part of Kṛṣṇa Book, Mahā-Viṣṇu says that Arjuna is of the capacity of Nara-nārāyaṇa. So they are avatāras also.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1974, Bombay:

Yaśomatīnandana: Only the zoos.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...animal-eaters, later on, they will not find animals to eat. They will eat themselves. Because animals are not being maintained, they may be, according to Darwin's theory, extinct.

Satsvarūpa: In the US and everywhere they maintain them just for slaughter. So will that dwindle out?

Prabhupāda: Yes, slaughtering, slaughtering. When there will be no more, where this question of slaughtering?

Yaśomatīnandana: Yes. When there are no more animals, where will reproduce?

Prabhupāda: They maintain elephant also for slaughtering?

Satsvarūpa: No.

Yaśomatīnandana: When I was in America I heard last year there was a beef shortage. There was a meat shortage.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Meat shortage, yes.

Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: God did not... That means you have to eat only meat. You have nothing to eat?

Pañcadraviḍa: But if I eat a plant, it is also killing.

Prabhupāda: That is your argument. But God says that "Thou shalt not kill." You cannot argue. This is the first theory... Suppose if I say something to you, order, you cannot argue. That is not obedience. Obedience means without argument accepted. That is obedience. That is love.

Satsvarūpa: The other important point is that we love God not for getting some reward. You say that the other important thing is that this person claims to be pious, but he approaches God for material reward.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is business. That is not love. I go to somebody and flatter him to get something. Just like a shopkeeper does also like that. He flatters the customers in so many ways to sell goods so that he can make some profit. So there is no question of love.

Akṣayānanda: But that "I am following Jesus Christ and I am a vegetarian," so that's all right, isn't it?

Prabhupāda: I am following Jesus Christ?

Akṣayānanda: That "I am a vegetarian. I do not eat meat. I don't kill. I do not kill."

Prabhupāda: Oh, therefore I am a better Christian, better than you. Love... Therefore the Bhāgavata is perfect. Bhāgavata says that... Bhagavad-gītā says... Kṛṣṇa says that patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). So we are obeying Kṛṣṇa. We offer patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ. And we eat the remains of the foodstuff. Therefore we love. That is the proof. But you are not loving Jesus Christ because you are disobeying the order.

Morning Walk -- May 30, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: So śāstra says, labdhvā su-durlabham idaṁ bahu-sambhavānte: "My dear human being, please note. You have got this form of life after many many births, bahu-sambhavānte. You had to undergo the aquatic life, 900,000 species, the birds, trees and plants, two million. How much time it has gone by for this evolution. Now you have come to the human form of life." Labdhvā su-durlabham idaṁ bahu-sambhavānte mānuṣyam: "This is human form of life." Artha-dam: "Now you can achieve success. Although it is temporary, but you can achieve the highest perfection of life. Therefore," tūrṇaṁ yateta anumṛtyu yāvat, "before next death, you be very dexterous to complete the success." And if you think, then what about my sense enjoyment? Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt: "It will be available any life. This life you spend for this purpose. Don't waste simply for viṣaya." Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt. This you will get even if you become cat and dog. But in the cat and dogs, I will not get this opportunity, how to get out of this material existence. Labdhvā su-durlabham idaṁ bahu-sambhavānte. These are the instructions of Prahlāda. These rascals have no education to understand. Therefore we must give this education. We must induce them to read these books in the school, colleges. That is propaganda. Now we have got books. These rascals, they have no books to read about this realization. They have got only Freud's philosophy and this... What is that? And Darwin's theory. All rascaldom, simply rascaldom. Let them read these books. This philosopher, that philosopher. What is that? Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). The same philosophy, repeatedly for sense gratification, that's all. That rascal Mahesh Yogi, he also said that, "You take this special mantra; your material enjoyment will be easier." The same: the punaḥ punaś carvita. He has no other information. "It will be better." And they accepting. "Oh, my enjoyment will be better? All right, take $35. Give me that mantra." They like it because they are promising that "You will get this..." Politicians also, they are promising, "You take this ism.

Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: So he condemned, "No, no. I don't care for your Vedas." So he defied Vedic injunction. Because otherwise, he could not establish his theory of nonviolence. The violence, in a certain way, is recommended in the Vedas. So if he says, "No violence," then it is against Vedas. Therefore he had to declare, "No, no, I don't follow the Vedic injunction." And because he did not, he publicly declared that "I don't follow Vedic injunction," therefore he is taken as atheist. Atheist means who does not take the authority of the Vedas. Nindasi yajña-vidher ahaha śruti-jātam. But he did it. He is all-powerful. He can do it. Why? Sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. We worship him like that. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa. From philosophical point of view, he is taken as atheist. But we Vaiṣṇava we know that He is God. He is God, incarnation of God.

Morning Walk -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Yogeśvara: There's a theory of the psychologists that—in some ways it's similar to our idea—that people are conditioned, that according to their environment, according to their upbringing, according to their parentage and so on, they have a kind of way of acting and thinking. So their argument is that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is just another kind of conditioning, that you leave one kind of conditioning, a material conditioning, but then you also enter into another kind of conditioning when you live in the temple.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is conditioning, certainly. The position is that you must be under certain condition. That is your position. So if you become conditioned by God, that is your perfection. And if you become conditioned by māyā, that is your trouble. You must be conditioned. That is your position. You cannot be independent. And therefore, if you become naturally conditioned, then that is your happy life. Just as child, he must be conditioned. But when he is conditioned by his parents, that is his perfection of life. Your position is that you must be conditioned. Why you are thinking to be independent? That is your rascaldom. You should always know that "I must be conditioned. That is my life." Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ (BG 9.13). Condition. Still conditioned, but daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, under the spiritual nature. That is Mahātmā. Mahātmā is not independent. He is also conditioned. So first of all, we must understand that our natural position is to be conditioned. Now, why, where I shall be conditioned? Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). You condition here. "You become conditioned by Me. Then you will be happy." Those who are thinking that "We shall not be conditioned," they are still in māyā. You cannot be without condition.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: So? Do you agree or not? (laughter) We welcome scientific knowledge. We don't say that scientific knowledge should be stopped, but it should be utilized to glorify the Lord. Then it is perfect. Otherwise useless. Means you don't get perfection. Perfection is when you scientifically describe the existence of God and His different energies, how they are working. And that is scientist, real scientist. Otherwise, theories, you can give your theory, I'll give you a theory... Temporary. That's all. So everything is there in Bhāgavatam, all knowledge, full knowledge. Vidvān bhāgavata-vādī. So vidvān means, vidvān means one who has learned Bhāgavata, Bhāgavatam nicely. He's vidvān, factually. So you do not read all these things?

Robert Gouiran: I am sorry.

Prabhupāda: Always read. So many information are there.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Does this mean, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that if the scientists of the world become little bit directed and they use their science to glorify Kṛṣṇa, then they're actually practicing yoga?

Prabhupāda: That is success. Their scientific knowledge will be successful when by scientific knowledge they prove that God is the origin of the universe. That is success. That is... Another verse you can read. Idaṁ hi puṁsas... No. That...

Morning Walk -- June 6, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Oh, then whose bomb?

Yogeśvara: Well, their point is, like, for example, Albert Einstein. His idea wasn't to create the atomic bomb, but with his theories, the government agencies had men produce the bomb. So they're saying: "Why should you blame us for all the chaos and havoc? All we're doing is simply researching nature."

Prabhupāda: This is child?

Satsvarūpa: He has got animal hoofs, though.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Satsvarūpa: From the waist down, he's an animal. He has hoofs instead of feet.

Yogeśvara: What are they called?

Satsvarūpa: Centaur?

Yogeśvara: Centaur, centaur.

Satsvarūpa: That's in the Greek... (break)

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: ...if they give up the four sinful activities, then they might be able to understand the Vedic philosophy. So does this imply...?

Prabhupāda: Not Vedic philosophy. They will understand God.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: A girl is pregnant, suppose, then, during her pregnancy period, ten months, there is no sex, and unless the child becomes six months old, there is no sex. The thing is that in the modern world, sex life has become the only pleasure. They do not know anything else. Therefore everything is discredited. And another thing is they are afraid of keeping more than one wife for population. But if they produce sufficient food, where is the question of overpopulation? Another thing they have made, especially in the western world, they don't want to produce food because they know, "We shall kill one animal and eat. Why take so much trouble? Let me increase industry, and I shall push my button. Money will come. And the slaughterhouse there. We shall eat." So they are getting money. By money, they are getting women to the choice. They are getting food, meat, and they're enjoying drinking. So money has become the whole thing. "Bring money some way or other and enjoy." This is the purport of civilization. They do not care what is God, that human body is meant for God realization. They have no such ideas. "There is nothing after death. So so long I am living, let me enjoy by the tongue, by the genital and by the belly. Use the tongue for eating anything which is palatable, which I like. Never mind what it is. And then genital also. Bring as many women..." This is civilization, modern. There is no question of sinful life or pious life, next life. (laughs) Another, their theory is that only on this planet there is living entities... (break) If there is sufficient rain in the desert, it will be also hot. (break) ...tells us in the śāstras how to live comfortably and advance in spiritual life. And they should give advice to others. That is the business of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Morning Walk -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Bhagavān: So we can walk to the car through here. Will there come a time when people will become disgusted with the scientists and reject them?

Prabhupāda: No. They'll more and more forget Kṛṣṇa. This is Kali-yuga. On account of these blind leaders. Don't you see that this rascal Darwin's theory, that is very much appreciated? Any movement which tries to get out God, very much appreciated, that is very much appreciated. That is scientific. "You forget God," that is scientific. And as soon as you speak of God, "You are primitive, old type." That's all. "You are conservative." That, another rascal, Allen Ginsberg, he was speaking, "Swamiji, you are very conservative." Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa... (pause) (break)

Bhagavān: ...discuss that the fact that when people die in different modes of nature, how they come back, and you say that (if) people die in the mode of passion, they come back in human life, if they die in the mode of ignorance, they come back in demonic species of life. So the people today seem to be... Is it that they'll all come back as animals in their next life?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Russian Orthodox Church Representative -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: He says that's not necessarily the logical conclusion. He says he's familiar with that theory, but it's more a question of faith. He says it's not actually a logical conclusion that if the soul leaves this body it must take another one. (French)

Prabhupāda: What does he mean by logic?

Yogeśvara: He says that means that it's not something that's very evident to me.

Prabhupāda: It may not be evident to him, but why not others? (French)

Yogeśvara: He says one thing is that he feels kind of glad that it's more or less a question of opinion because if it was Absolute Truth, then it would be too restricting for everyone.

Prabhupāda: No, it is Absolute Truth. But there are different ways of understanding Absolute Truth. He is taking only one way, direct perception. (French)

Yogeśvara: He said, if it were an absolute truth, it would be evident to everyone.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But everyone is not advanced in knowledge.

Morning Walk -- June 14, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: You are all fools. You are all fools. Therefore you have no philosophy. You cannot understand philosophy.

Yogeśvara: He says, "God is beyond philosophy and words."

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: That is how he brainwashes them.

Paramahaṁsa: The impersonalists have agreed amongst themselves that "As many theories, as many ways to God."

Prabhupāda: But God says, "Although there are many ways, you give them up. You take to this only. Surrender unto Me." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Their many ways means there are many kinds of men. So in the śāstra sometimes the attempt is to bring every one of them to bhakti-yoga.

Paramahaṁsa: But they argue that no matter, all ways, all paths lead to Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Paramahaṁsa: They argue that all paths lead to Kṛṣṇa. So why is one better than another?

Prabhupāda: If you know that all paths leads to Kṛṣṇa, then why don't you take this path? Why you are going round about way? If somebody asks you, "Where is your nose?" What is the use of showing like this. (laughter) Show like this. If you know really nose. But you do not know. Therefore you are going like this.

Room Conversation -- June 28, 1974, Melbourne:
Prabhupāda: They know it, how it is done. It has been done, or it is being done by somebody. That they do not know, who is that somebody. And when we say it is Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa says, "It is I am," they'll not agree. This is their position. They do not know who is that somebody, and when we say, "Here is that somebody," they'll not believe it. This is mūḍha. Therefore it is said... The mūḍha cannot explain all... And at the same time, will not accept the real thing. That is mūḍha. Mūḍha means rascal. And they will set aside the thing, "Yes, scientifically we are searching. In future, we shall be able." And when that future will come? Past, present and future. The future will become past also. Just like tomorrow, 29th June, this is future. Now, day after tomorrow, it will be past. (laughter) So if you are talking of future, but where is the history... In the history the future is past. This is common sense. So therefore they have discovered this nonsense ad infinitum that future will never come. And still, they will set aside the business to some future and take the credit. Yes. "In future we shall be able to do it." And that future will never come. And still, they will take the credit. (laughter) Just see. Therefore mūḍha. This is the explanation of mūḍha. It is just like somebody offered you a post-dated check, and then he wants to clear his debt. Suppose I am debtor by hundreds of dollars to you. I give you a post-dated check, and still I say, "Now I am clear of your debt." And that post-dated check will never be paid. This is their theory. Na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhāḥ duṣkṛtino narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). (pause) The government has recognized us as bona fide religious sect.
Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā, yes.

Guest (2): We were very interested in your comments on the dairy industry in particular. Dr. Harrap is in charge of the dairy research. How do you relate your strong interest in dairy products to modern thinking on cholestrol and similar problems? This doesn't disturb you?

Satsvarūpa: There are modern theories that milk is actually harmful.

Dr. Harrap: Well, that butter...

Dr. Muncing: The milkfat and...

Dr. Harrap: Yes, milkfat.

Prabhupāda: Milk is harmful? How it is harmful? If it is harmful why you are giving milk to the child?

Dr. Harrap: There is a certain difference here in that milk that we get from cows has a very low proportion of what we call polyunsaturated fatty acids, only about two per cent, whereas in human milk this is about ten or twelve percent. It's a much higher level. So milk from cows, which are ruminants, is quite a lot different from the milk that we get from the non-ruminants, and of course, humans are non-ruminants.

Prabhupāda: But I think there is a book, "Miracles of Milk," written by one American gentleman. He has greatly valued the milk and milk products. Similarly, we Indians, we give very, very importance to milk and milk products.

Morning Walk at Marina del Rey -- July 12, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Then where is the creation.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: When, they say, the earth, first the earth was formed, and after that, it took some time to make some living entities.

Prabhupāda: That may be, but how the earth came into existence?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have several theories about that.

Prabhupāda: Not only one earth, but there are so many. (pause)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They speculate that at the most the human form of life started about five thousand, about fifty thousand years ago.

Bali Mardana: What?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's what they think. From similar type of species like human beings, started about fifty thousand years ago.

Room Conversations -- September 10, 1974, Vrndavana:

Devotee (1): "Without envy"?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The whole world is envious, whole world. I am envious of you, you are envious of me. That Bhāgavata is not meant for such envious persons. Paramo nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2), those who are no more envious. How they will have a devotee envious? He loves Kṛṣṇa and in relationship with Kṛṣṇa loves everyone. In that position, in that state, one will not try to suppress another. Otherwise, it is material life. To live at the cost of others, to suppress one, to take other's money and become rich. There is story in the Aesop's Fable that—you perhaps know it—that a dog took the flesh in his mouth and was crossing a river, and the shadow was in the water. So he thought there is another dog with the flesh, so he wanted to..., he lost this, and that was a shadow. So he has got a flesh in his mouth, but he is an animal, it was deluded that "Another dog is carrying, so I shall take." So even in the cats and dogs, this tendency is there. Even the cats and dogs, they are also. So how can you stop it? That will be not stopped. They do not know. Therefore, these theories, they are simply theories; they are not practical. They do not know what is the nature, how nature is working.

Page Title:Theory (Conv. 1968 - 1974)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:23 of Nov, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=167, Let=0
No. of Quotes:167