So originally we are all persons, no imperson. Kṛṣṇa also says... He'll say that: "These soldiers, these kings, you and Me, My dear Arjuna, it is not that we did not exist in the past. Neither it is that in future we shall cease to exist." So this particular instruction of Kṛṣṇa, that: "I, You and all these kings and soldiers who have assembled here, they existed. As we are existing now, individual persons; similarly, they existed, individual persons. And in future also we shall exist as individual persons." So where is the question of imperson? These nonsense impersonalists, voidists. Therefore, the principle is to understand things in reality one has to approach Kṛṣṇa as Arjuna has approached, śiṣyas te 'ham: (BG 2.7) "Now I am Your disciple. You just teach me. Śādhi māṁ prapannam. I am surrendering. I am not trying to talk with You on equal level."
To accept guru means whatever guru says, you have to accept. Otherwise, don't make guru. Don't make a fashion. You must be ready. That is called prapannam. Tad viddhi praṇipātena (BG 4.34). You can understand simply by surrendering, not to test guru. "I shall test him, how, how much he knows." Then what is the use of making guru? No. Therefore Arjuna says that: "Besides You, there is nobody else who can actually satisfy me in this perplexed condition." Yac chokam ucchoṣaṇam indriyāṇām (BG 2.8). "My senses are being dried up." Because the superficial senses... That are not actually senses. Real sense is within. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanam (CC Madhya 19.170). We have to serve Kṛṣṇa, Hṛṣīkeśa... Kṛṣṇa is real, and we have to come to that position of reality. Then we can serve Kṛṣṇa. Hṛṣīkeṇa. Tat paratvena nirmalam. When our senses are purified. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ, manasas tu paro buddhir (BG 3.42). These are different stages. This bodily concept of life means senses. But when you transcend these senses, you come to the mental platform. When you transcend the mental platform, you come to the intellectual platform. When you come to the intellectual platform, when you transcend, then you come to the spiritual platform. That is spiritual form. There are different grades and steps. In the gross bodily platform we demand pratyakṣa-jñānam. Pratyakṣa means direct perception. There are different stages of knowledge. Pratyakṣa, aparokṣa, pratyakṣa, parokṣa, aparokṣa, adhokṣaja, aprakṛta. These are different stages of knowledge. So knowledge acquired in the bodily platform, direct perception, is not real knowledge. Therefore, we can challenge these scientists, so-called scientists. Their basic principle of knowledge is on the bodily concept of life, pratyakṣa, experimental knowledge. Experimental knowledge means this gross sense perception. That is experimental. Pratyakṣa. Everyone says: "We do not see God." God is not such a subject matter that you can see with this pratyakṣa, direct perception. God's another name is Anubhāva. Anubhāva. Just like in this room we do not see the sun directly. But we know that there is sun. It is daytime. How do you know it? You do not see. But there are other processes by which you can experience. That is called aparokṣa. Pratyakṣa parokṣa aparokṣa. In this way, Kṛṣṇa consciousness means adhokṣaja and aprakṛta, beyond the senses. Therefore, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said: adhokṣaja. Where direct perception cannot reach. So where direct perception cannot reach, then how you can perceive anubhāva? That is śrota-panthā. That is śruti. You have to take knowledge from the Vedas. And the Vedic knowledge is explained by guru. Therefore one has to take shelter of Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme guru, or His representative. Then all these troubles, means ignorance, can be dissipated. Yac chokam ucchoṣaṇam indriyāṇām (BG 2.8).