Generally people are ātmavit, bodily conscious, mass of people or class of people also. Hardly you will find a person at the present moment ātmavit, self-realized. Everyone is: "I am this body." "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am Canadian," "I am Australian," "I am white," "I am black," "I am brāhmaṇa," "I am śūdra," this way—"I am this body." Ātmavit means "I am the self; I am the soul." Bhāgavata... This is the Vedic word. If one understands that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul," he is called ātmavit, or he is liberated. He is not bodily conscious platform. There are three platforms of identification with self. Those who are grossly in ignorance, exactly like animals... Just like a dog. A dog thinks that he is the body. He cannot think that he is not the body, he is the soul. That is not possible. Because he is born in such a body, he is entrapped in such a body, animal body, they cannot think that the animal, the cat and dog, is different from the body. But at the present moment, so many big, big scholars and professors and educationists, they are also the same category as the dog. As the dog is thinking, "I am this body," he is also thinking, "I am this body." And on this bodily concept there are so many nations, big, big nation, they are on the bodily concept of life. Not ātmavit. Ātmavit is different, that "I am not this body; I am soul," Bhāgavata,.
The mass and the class
Expressions researched:
"YOU SPEAK IF MASS, I SPEAK IF CLASS"
|"and class, not mass"
|"compromise to attract the mass"
|"educated class, like lawyers, professors"
|"first-class education, it is not for the mass"
|"first-class leader. Then mass will follow"
|"first-class population, you find very small number. In a mass meeting"
|"high class of men, not the mass"
|"intelligent class of men and the mass of people"
|"mass is not very good. Rather, a first-class men"
|"mass movement as well as class movement"
|"mass of people or class of people"
|"mass of people, but at least one, two intelligent class"
|"mass of people. The class of people"
|"mass shall support us, but we want that the class shall preach for us"
|"mass there is no influence. In the class, educated class"
|"the mass and the class"
|"the mass but also by the class"
|"the mass of people, they cannot speak English"
|"we are after the class"
Lectures
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
Philosophy Discussions
Prabhupāda: Well, "according to," that's another thing. We are discussing whether this is philosophy or nonsense. That is our question. The greatest number at the present moment in your country, they'll say, "LSD is very nice. We like it." So does it mean government will allow, "Yes, the greatest number of people are wanting it. It must be..."
Śyāmasundara: Mill makes a distinction between quality and quantity. If we are only thinking of quantity of pleasure...
Prabhupāda: Then if you come to the quality, then it will be the smallest, because quality... Suppose the whole population, two million population, if you pick up from the population quality, first-class population, you find very small number. In a mass meeting if you ask in the meeting, "Who has passed M.A. examination?" maybe three or four may come. Quality.
Śyāmasundara: But I mean the pleasure, the type of pleasure, he says it should be qualitatively and quantitatively the greatest.
Prabhupāda: Pleasure also, whatever you take, when you put the question of quality of pleasure... Just like ordinary people, they are taking pleasure in eating, sleeping, mating, drinking, like that. But Kṛṣṇa pleasure is transcendental pleasure. Very few people are taking it. Very small number. So the same question again, why he said that many number of people, they are taking pleasure, so-called pleasure in taking LSD? So will that be taken as pleasure or will that be accepted? We are talking of philosophy.
Śyāmasundara: Qualitatively that's not a very high pleasure, so he would not recommend it.
Prabhupāda: What is his philosophy? First of all he says the greatest number of people, generally... After all, these conditioned souls, they are fools. So if the greatest number you take, that is a great number of fools only.
Conversations and Morning Walks
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Vivekananda has influence here in higher class, among the educated class. They talk about Vivekananda and this and that, nonsense. In your country, fortunately, that opposition was not there. There was no influence of Vivekananda class men. Here amongst the educated class there is influence of all these rascals, Vivekananda, Aurobindo, and... That is one defect. But in the mass there is no influence. In the class, educated class. Because educated class means wine, women, meat, and Vivekananda allows this. That is the point.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Author: Sir, when somebody joins your movement, when they first come to see your movement, what presents itself to them-men with shaven heads and saffron-colored robes who dance in the street and who sing songs, strange songs—these are strange aspects. And in themselves they are not especially significant to an understanding of the philosophy, are they?
Prabhupāda: No, this is... This chanting and dancing is for mass of people, but when you want to discuss philosophy, we have got volumes of books. Yes. Both things we have got. We are attracting both the intelligent class of men and the mass of people, even the children.
Prabhupāda: Just like there is higher studies in science, in so many departments of knowledge. It is not that mass of people is interested in Ph.D. degree. But if one is interested in Ph.D. degree, therefore government provides him: "Yes, in university, you come." That is the real facility. So if anyone is interested to understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness, why it should be denied? Why this should be obstructed because I do not like it? In big, big universities, maybe in higher studies, there may be one student, and for that one student they are maintaining four professors. Each professor is paid two thousand dollars. Is it not a fact? What do you think, you professor. Is it not a fact? Some department of knowledge is maintained, even it is not paying. Is it not? There are so many departments simply for research work because the government knows it is important thing. It may not be for the mass of people, but at least one, two intelligent class of men, he pays, qualified: "Let them have this opportunity." So this is like that. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not for ordinary man, but it is very important movement. Those who are interested, why they should be denied? It should be maintained. We cannot expect everyone can give up all these bad habits, illicit sex, illicit meat-eating, or drink, or intoxication, gambling. That is not expected. But if one wants to be for higher status of life, why he should be denied? This is not a bad thing. Why the city fathers are thinking that this should be stopped? All right, let us now... So my appeal to you, that you are journalist; you at least study this, our movement, and present very nicely. That is my request.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: We have no such distinction. So to the mass of people, we chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. But when there are learned scholars, elevated person, then we present about our philosophy. And we have got so many writings. Both ways: the mass and the class, or the scholars. We are prepared to meet everyone. Our mission is to make everyone, no distinction, that "This class should be given preference, and that should be neglected." No. We have got instrument to awaken everyone. By chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, we can enthuse thousands and thousands of men to join us. And those who are advanced in philosophy and religious system, we have got these books. So we do not neglect anyone. We approach everyone.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes, if you train people to become God conscious, then naturally president will come, God conscious. If you train people like hogs and dogs, then the president will be hogs and dogs because it is democracy. (laughter) Therefore we have taken the task to train people how to become godly. Then naturally the president will come godly. If people decide that "We shall not cast our vote to any man who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious," then the Kṛṣṇa conscious man will come. But people are not trained up. They are fools, so they elect another fool, big fool. That's all. How you can be happy? Just like in the forest the small animals like cats and dogs and asses, they are very much afraid of the lion, tiger. And they accept lion as the king of forest. But he may be lion or tiger and elected by asses and cats and dogs, but he is nothing but animal. Will any human being accept the lion as human being? No. He knows that he is an animal. Maybe he is voted by the small animals. So that is the position. At the present moment the mass of people are kept in their animal consciousness. And therefore they elect another big animal to become president. Their idea is to have animal strength, jaws and nails and very powerful—"Oh, he is God," or "He is president." They cannot select anyone else. But formerly, in the Vedic civilization, a king was elected by the first-class men of the society, the saintly persons, the brāhmaṇas. They did not take part in politics, but they recommended that "This man should..." Just like Kṛṣṇa. He wanted Yudhiṣṭhira must be the king. Because king is supposed to be God's representative, how to rule over, not that these cats and dogs will find out a lion and vote him to the chair. That is not the process. Your modern process is that the electors, they are not trained up, and they elect another big animal to become the president. Therefore it is failure. All over the world this is going on. This so-called democracy... Unless people are very much trained up, the election by the mass is not very good. Rather, a first-class men, they should nominate that "This man should be president." That will be nice.
Prabhupāda: These things in different way, that "Come to your pure knowledge and make your plan. Then you will be happy. And if your basic principle is wrong, then whatever plan you make, it is useless."
Reporter: Yes. But, you see, the thing that worries me is that how do people begin to understand that their basic principle might be wrong?
Prabhupāda: Just as one goes to a school and gradually he understands what is one, what is two, what is three, what is "two plus two equal to four," how to place. It is a question of learning, education.
Reporter: Yes, but this doesn't effect the ordinary man in the street, Your Grace.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Reporter: This doesn't effect the masses.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The mass of people, he says it doesn't effect them.
Prabhupāda: Mass of people will follow. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭha (BG 3.21). Just like everywhere, in politics there is in one leader and people follow him, so we want first-class leader. Then mass will follow. If the leaders are rascals and fools, then what will be result? Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). If the leader is blind, how he can help other blind men? He must be open eyes. Then he can lead thousands of blind men—"Come here." And if he is himself blind, then how he can help? That is wanted. One blind man... One open-eyes man is sufficient to lead many thousands of blind men. But if the leaders are also blind, then it is useless. He must be in perfect knowledge. That is wanted. We do not expect that mass of people will understand this philosophy. It is not possible. But at least the leaders, they must know how to lead people—the father, the teachers, the government, like that. Then people will follow.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest (1): But sir, would you not agree that in order to appeal to the masses or to make masses into any movement...
Prabhupāda: No, it is... You see... It is not... If you want to become an educated man or if you want to give first-class education, it is not for the mass. It is for the leader. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tat tad evetaro janaḥ (BG 3.21). If the leaders are educated, then others will follow. But if the leaders are not educated, what the others will do? That is the difficulty. And the so-called leaders, without being educated, they become leader.
Guest (1): That's why all this trouble.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They manufacture some idea.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: First of all we must attract people, then give them prasāda. If you have no power to attract them, then how..., what is the position? Program means men will do. If there is no men, who will do this program?
Girirāja: In that area, in Thana, they drink at night.
Prabhupāda: Let them do whatever nonsense they are doing. Let them chant and take prasāda. We don't mind what they are doing. That is later on. When I was chanting in Tompkinson Park I never asked them that "Don't come here. You are drinking." Everyone was drinking. (laughs) I know that. Everyone had illicit sex. They were coming with their boyfriend, girlfriend. I didn't know that? Was I going to restrict them from? Let them come, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Caitanya Mahāprabhu stressed on this, mass kīrtana every night. He was not speaking philosophy. Philosophy with Sarvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, not with the mass of people. Mass of people—"Come on! Chant!" Give prasāda. This was Caitan... What they will understand, philosophy?
Girirāja: They won't understand.
Prabhupāda: Mass of people, let them chant and dance and take prasāda. So these centers are being opened for mass movement as well as class movement. In the village there is... Hardly you'll get good, educated men. So there is no question of philosophy. Given them chance of chanting and take prasāda. It is useless to talk before them our philosophy. They'll never understand. But they will understand prasādam. Prasādam is so nice. If there are few grains of prasāda, even the crows will come, the condemned bird. (laughs) He will also come. You do like this.
Mr. Koshi: Yeah, but what we are in the outside world... I am not in the Society. What I see outside is totally... You see, when I see a group of young people like these boys here dancing in the street, it is something jarring to my eyes. I am not used to it. What is the necessity for the chant and the...
Prabhupāda: That is going on. One man's food, another man's poison.
Mr. Koshi: No, no, there is a purpose behind it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Purpose... That is the way. That is the way.
Mr. Koshi: To?
Prabhupāda: To spiritual understanding in this age. Ecstasy. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ (SB 7.5.23). You have to follow the Vedic injunctions. Kṛṣṇotkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau. Utkīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau.
Mr. Koshi: So by looking at him you are trying to rouse the interests of the people, or curiosity?
Prabhupāda: You can take interest in so many ways. If you are not interested in that way, read books. Are you not interested in reading books? Read. We have got many ways. That is for mass of people. The class of people who wants to understand this movement through science, philosophy, come on, read these books.
Correspondence
1971 Correspondence
As for your questions, do the fallen souls leave the spiritual world all at once or gradually, we can answer, do all the prisoners in the prisonhouse free at once—no, some are coming, some are going. Our presentation of Krishna Consciousness must be always very bold-if we are king, we must act like king. The idea is if we speak the truth, those will hear who are intended to hear by being qualified or prepared. It is not that we should compromise to attract the mass—we are after the class. Still, it was my method to make Krishna Consciousness palatable to you Western boys and girls, how else could I attract you to give up your habits of sense gratification? Krishna philosophy can be approached from every angle because it is the Complete Whole, purnam. So if your scientific explanation, beginning from the point that sound vibration is the root cause of everything, and leading to the understanding that Krishna is the Cause of the sound vibration is having good effect, why not continue in this way. Only thing is to remain true to the authorities—Krishna, the great saints and acaryas—and everything you say will come out nicely. People are of different natures so we have to use our talents how to convince people in different circumstances, that's all.
I am very pleased that your preaching work is going on nicely. That is the test, that you are making devotees. Especially I want this school and college program. If only the intelligent class of men understand our Krishna philosophy, then our mission is successful. So try to attract these students with profuse prasadam and nice philosophy and they will appreciate more and more. Slow but sure, that is our motto—and class, not mass. So never mind some other Christian movements are getting many followers. The competition is beneficial for us. Everything is beneficial for Krishna consciousness if it is utilized properly. That is the art. Anything without substance will not last, so just demonstrate sincerely that we have got solid ground beneath us, not that we have only some sentiment, that's all. Many fanatic spiritual movements have come and gone, but without the flawless philosophy of Krishna, they cannot stand. Therefore I want especially that my books and literature should be distributed profusely. This is our substance, real philosophical information, not some weak sentiments. So try for this, to give all men this Krishna philosophy, and many real devotees will come with us back to Home, back to Godhead.
1972 Correspondence
In Bangladesh, we have got very good field. Simply by chanting, dancing and taking a little prasadam. Best thing is to speak among the educated class, like lawyers, professors—the mass of people, they cannot speak English. From Tamala Krishna's letter it is understood that Tamala Krishna has met Mujibar Rehman's son, who is educated. This advantage must be taken. When Mujibar Rehman is seen, he must hear our philosophy, how all peoples of the world can be united under one culture, which will solve all problems of the world. Our culture is faultless, this must be understood. There must be full discussion in the papers, etc.
I like this idea of distributing books and preaching, that is Lord Caitanya's plan, and because you are doing it so nicely you are already making the greatest contribution, so what need there is for some special instruction from me? But if you want, I must give, because you are serving Krishna so nicely, so in that case my request to you is that you enter into the universities and colleges wherever possible and preach there with a view to recruiting some first-class devotees for helping me manage and push on this movement all over the world. Overall there is shortage of first-class, experienced men to manage things just to the highest standard, as you are doing. Therefore I am calling upon you the big leaders to push this idea forward, namely, to attract some educated men to join us. The idea is that they will only agree to join us if we ourselves conduct ourselves intelligently by the preaching approach. The secret will be to engage them as they like to be engaged, that is, supposing I have got some education, I am business student, or I have got some skill or talent, I am typist or musician or something like that, so I will like to utilize these things for Krishna only if I am encouraged in a certain way, very tactfully, and I must not be discouraged by too much forcing me at first to accept everything of shaving the head, rising very early, going for street sankirtana, like that. No, let me come gradually, let me study also Krishna Consciousness and see how it is practical and sublime. Gradually I may get some taste for these other things and agree to do them voluntarily and intelligently. We are not dogma or like army-camp, no. We are servants of Krishna, that means because we understand that Krishna is our Protector under all circumstances, we have no more any anxiety, so we become very liberal and tolerant of all kinds of seeing others' sinful activities, and we see them innocent victims of maya, and we try to help them understand what is the real position of life. So you know this art, how to attract and engage men, so aim yourself at the top-class of men and give them every opportunity and facility to become convinced of our philosophy and engage themselves to their satisfaction. That will be the best contribution. Now spread this idea also to the other leaders. So now I do not think there will be any difficulty for you to fill your Seattle centre with the best devotees in our Movement, and then I shall be very glad to come there at next opportunity to give them all my personal instruction. In this way, appeal yourself to the high class of men, not the mass. Mass, too, we do not eliminate anyone, but if best men are there to run on things, mass will follow later.
I like very much your proposal for approaching all the big leaders of the world and presenting them one Bhagavad-Gita As It Is and one copy of BTG, along with letter of description of our Krishna Consciousness Movement. If you can send me the copy of that Supreme Court Judge's letter? If you simply inform them something, by way of the line of our preaching logic and authority, gradually they may come to know about us and help us. But one thing is, our experience is that such big men will not help us—except if there is some rare soul like Mr. George Harrison, and they must be guided also by our personally contacting them again and again and slowly build-up the relationship. We are more interested that the mass of men shall support us—what good a handful of high-class supporters will do? Just like in your country, there was election, and the opponent of Mr. Nixon, he was supported by all high-class men, but because Mr. Nixon had help of the common men he was successful and won the fight. But, if even one such high-class man becomes preacher on our behalf, if he actually becomes converted to Krishna Consciousness preaching work, then that is the best contribution of your preaching also. Just like George, now he is practically converted and he is only preaching about Krishna, and he has done that from the beginning—I think you knew him in London also, so you know how he is helping us push on the preaching—so that type of big personality, if you can catch one or two such men for preaching contribution, oh, that will be wonderful achievement for you. We want that the mass shall support us, but we want that the class shall preach for us, that is the distinction. Is it clear?
1973 Correspondence
Your program for working with the TV personalities seems to be very nice. Even though the results are not coming so quickly, please do not be discouraged.
But one thing, you should try and get these TV personalities to show our books and advertise them over the air. This will be the real success of our endeavors with the media. I have always stressed that we must become recognized not only by the mass but also by the class. This class section of the society should be encouraged to write letters of appreciation of my books and of our activities.
Just recently Rupanuga Das Goswami has had one very successful meeting with Kenneth Keating, the American Ambassador to India and he has agreed to be our chief guest when we open our center in downtown Manhattan. I have said before, Hearing is the first step in God realization; therefore if we can simply convince these big men to hear, then gradually they will come to the point of accepting us.
1974 Correspondence
VRINDABAN A TOUR NECESSARY LETTER FOLLOWS. ALLAHABAD MEETING OKAY. YOU SPEAK IF MASS, I SPEAK IF CLASS YOUR LETTER ___ ARRIVING NEW DELHI FEBRUARY 1ST
—AC BHAKTIVEDANTA SWAMI
| Page Title: | The mass and the class |
| Compiler: | Labangalatika |
| Created: | 25 of Feb, 2010 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=2, Con=9, Let=7 |
| No. of Quotes: | 18 |