Śyāmasundara: There is also another psychologist, Carl Jung, he's also very important. He followed Freud.
Revatīnandana: To some extent.
Śyāmasundara: I mean chronologically. Freud's idea was that unconscious processes are invariably infantile, animal, or pathological. Jung said that some unconscious energies are sources of positive and creative activity. That the unconscious is important for the growth and development of the mature and well-adjusted personality. Freud investigated the unconscious and found that the negative side, that our unconscious life is always threatening us, that it is the cause of pathological...
Prabhupāda: What do you mean by unconscious life?
Śyāmasundara: Subconscious, that which we are not consciously aware of...
Prabhupāda: That means it is consciousness but it is covered.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. He says that unconscious part of our mind is dangerous, infantile, animalistic. But Jung says that the unconscious can also be positive and helpful to the growth of our personality, that it can be an asset to understand this unconscious life.
Prabhupāda: But I think that the subconscious status as it is covered by the present consciousness, similarly, it can be covered by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so that those subconscious states will be no longer able to react.
Śyāmasundara: He sees a positive or creative function of this unconscious...
Prabhupāda: Just like the other day I was citing the śloka of Yamunācārya about sex life. The subconscious status is there, sex life, but because he has got Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is spiting on it. That means the subconscious state cannot overcome. So our policy is that you become fully Kṛṣṇa conscious, and then all the subconscious status which is gathered for life after life, and they are stored, they are in stock, they will not be able to overcome.
Śyāmasundara: He sees that the mind is composed of a balance of conscious and unconscious, just like light and dark, there's an equal amount, but that the function of the personality is to integrate the conscious and unconscious functions. For instance, if one had a strong sex desire, if somehow he were able to cultivate or channel that into a creative art or a creative value. Just like this brahmācārya, that sex impulse is channelled into higher thinking about Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: That is our process. Just like sex impulse is natural for everyone in the material (world), but if we think of Kṛṣṇa embracing Rādhārāṇī or dancing with the gopīs, then our sex impulse becomes subordinate, no more stronger. Hṛd-rogaṁ kāmam āśv apahinoti. Hṛd-rogaṁ kāmam, this is a heart disease, to be lusty. But if anyone hears about the pastimes of Kṛṣṇa and the gopīs, through right source, then this hṛd-rogam, this lusty desire in the heart, is suppressed and he will develop devotional service.
Śyāmasundara: This is an example of what Jung would call individuation, where the energies of the unconscious sex impulse are channelled into a conscious and creative activity of God realization. So those energies are being utilized in a proper way. This is what he would call integration or individuation.
Prabhupāda: This thing I was explaining, this prakṛti, it is very scientific. Kṛṣṇa is the only puruṣa, enjoyer and if every one of us serves everything in the propensity of His enjoyment, that is our enjoyment. That is our enjoyment-predominated and predominator. Just like, crude example, it is not exact: husband wants to enjoy wife, and the wife voluntarily helps him in that enjoyment, the wife also becomes joyful. Similarly, the supreme enjoyer is Kṛṣṇa, and if you help Him in His enjoyment, then automatically we become also joyous. Predominated enjoyer and predominator enjoyer. Both of them enjoying but one of them is predominated, one of them is predominator. So predominated, when... He helps to be predominator, reciprocation of enjoyment.
Revatīnandana: Śrīla Prabhupāda, there's one point, I think if I understand it, you will say that from the man or a woman being you can see the (indistinct) sex desire is there, from the body comes sex desire. He says then that sex desire can be elevated for self-realization or for some kind of higher...
Prabhupāda: No, no.
Revatīnandana: No, but for some kind of higher pursuit, that same sex energy can be channelled at what you would call a higher (indistinct).
Revatīnandana: But we say that originally there were desires to enjoy coming from the soul. If it is channelled to the body it becomes sex lust, but if it is channelled higher it becomes higher (indistinct) for advancement. It's not coming from sex, it's coming from the soul, is that correct—the desire to enjoy?
Prabhupāda: No. Try to understand. Sex desire is there in everyone. So once sex desire is (indistinct) up, male sex desire and female sex desire. The sex desire is there in both male and female, but some from impartial view, it appears that the male is the enjoyer and the female is the enjoyed. So both of them are (indistinct). So the female, if she agrees to be predominated, enjoyed, then naturally she also becomes enjoyer. So living entities are described as prakṛti, female. So when the living entities agree to help Kṛṣṇa's sex desire, then they become happy.