Śyāmasundara: He says the only criterion for truth is its practical application in society.
Prabhupāda: The practical... First of all, you prove practically that you are independent.
Śyāmasundara: It wouldn't make any difference because...
Prabhupāda: Why not difference? My point is if your basic principle is wrong, then how you can make a perfect proposal?
Śyāmasundara: Well, I'm not concerned with questions about my origin or about the nature of matter except that...
Prabhupāda: Then you are interested in the superficial things.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. Only as it applies to society.
Prabhupāda: That superficial means it is changing. It will never be perfect. If you take superficial thing, then it is changing always. That is nature's law.
Śyāmasundara: My only interest is in the dictatorship of the proletariat, that everyone should have an equal opportunity, equal pay, equal property, everything.
Prabhupāda: That is theory, but it will never be successful. Why in Russia there is manager's pay and the worker's pay? Why not equal pay?
Revatīnandana: He says, "Abolish that." Mao says, "Abolish that system."
Devotee: No, Russia is not a Communist state.
Revatīnandana: The Chinese scoff at the Russians, that they are not Communist. They say we will not abide by this different manager... Only one pay scale for everybody.
Prabhupāda: First of all, this Communistic idea came from Russia and China imitated.
Devotee: Well, it came out of the proponent philosophers.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, the Russia is supposed to be leader of the Communistic idea.
Revatīnandana: They don't accept anymore. There is Mao...
Prabhupāda: Similarly, sometimes after, he will not be accepted. That is my proposition. As Russia is not accepted now, some days after, he will not be accepted. Similarly, your also theory will fail. That is my proposition. Because I challenge that your theory is not perfect. Because Russia's theory was not perfect, it has failed. Similarly, I say your theory is also imperfect, therefore it will fail. Anything imperfect will fail. That is my proposition.
Revatīnandana: His propaganda is that it is perfect because it has made the Chinese people...
Prabhupāda: Propaganda, by propaganda you can do anything. That is different thing. But fact is fact. If you theory is not perfect, you make however propaganda, it will fail.