Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...is in ignorance. Combination of matter and soul, moving animals. Some of them are standing as trees and plant, and some of them are moving. Where is the science to study? What is your value of knowledge? Hm? If they do not know the fundamental things, then what is the value of their knowledge? Simply observation, superficial, externally. There is good scope. They are receiving these books. We should take chance of preaching this Bhāgavatam, and the classes should be held especially.... No, the religious classes are already there. Let them study Bhāgavatam, Bhagavad-gītā. And they will accept it. They are not fools. Simply we have to introduce it. The Western people, they are not fools, but misguided. So you take the charge of guiding them; then Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will be successful. They will appreciate, they will take it up and reform, and their life will be successful. And if they utilize their intelligence how to reduce population and kill child within the womb and "There is no soul in the womb. When they come out then the soul becomes"—what is this nonsense? Unless there is soul, how it becomes manifest?
Successful (Conversations 1976)
Expressions researched:
"succesful"
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Conversations and Morning Walks
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: (laughs) This is nonsense.
Bhavānanda: "...our Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu was born at Śrī Māyāpur, destined to remove the dark clouds which had overshadowed true religious thinking by traveling alone on foot throughout the length and breadth of India. Preaching His gospel of love, He brought about a religious upheaval which put an end to all religious conflicts and suicidal vissiferous(?) tendencies. The benign influence of His love philosophy made the whole of India a spiritually united cultural domain. Soul-enrapturing kīrtana music was organized from one end of the country to another. A neo-humanism based on love regarded as the highest objective of human existence held sway. The difference between man and man was forgotten, and the fundamental unity of human nature and human destiny was stressed upon. But in the early nineteenth century, true religion was at a very low ebb due to lack of proper publicity of literature and also for want of great ācāryas to propagate the cults in their true aspect. It was a dark period for the Caitanya or Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavism when it fell from its highest transcendentalism to the lowest possible degradation because of so many abuses and evil practices which crept into it through plenty of pseudo-followers. Vaiṣṇavism was almost abandoned by the educated section of people. Its literature was hardly read. Kīrtana was looked upon not as a form of prayer but as a means of gratification by people of loose morals. Most of the Vaiṣṇava followers of the period lost their high standard of morality, their loving aestheticism, their intellectual superiority and devotional fervor, which were the main characteristics of the previous masters. The influx of Western ideas came in, and English educated people fell into the hands of Christians. Fortunately, at that time, we got a great Vaiṣṇava savant and scholar, Ṭhākura Kedāranātha Bhaktivinoda, who wrote widely and successfully created an interest among the educated public in Vaiṣṇava religion and literature.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Bhavānanda: You are giving one version of Bhagavad-gītā, but there are so many versions.
Prabhupāda: If you can learn one, then your life will be successful for many thousand years. Hm? Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. You simply understand one verse of Bhagavad-gītā; then you understand everything. This is the meaning. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. (Bengali)
Sudāmā: I remember once you said, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that it took Arjuna less than forty-five minutes. He understood. But for us it is taking, for materialistic men...
Prabhupāda: Forty-five thousand years. (laughter) Who is therefore mūḍhas? Intelligent men can answer, understand everything, in a minute. And if he's a fool, rascal, even forty-five thousand years he cannot understand. We are giving the best service to the whole world, trying to make them educated in Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Sudāmā: (break) ...very curious: "What is the power and mystery of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, how he is doing so many things but yet he does not appear like these others yogis who are..., like Satya Sai Baba who is making magic and..."
Prabhupāda: After all, understanding... Therefore they are mūḍhas. They have to understand. If they do not understand, they remain mūḍha. That is human life. The human being should understand that "I am mūḍha, so I'll have to learn." And the Vedas says, "Then go to guru." Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet: (MU 1.2.12) "You must go if you want to learn." And if he remains mūḍha and speculates, then he remains mūḍha. He never gets the enlightenment. He remains continually... Mūḍhā janmani janmani mām aprāpyaiva (BG 16.20). He cannot get God. Life after life, he will go on like that, mūḍha. Asuriṣu-yoni. Asurika-yoni. He'll remain completely ignorant about God, what was his function, only function to understand God during this life of human form of life. And so-called science wants to keep him rascal and mūḍha, that's all. Therefore we fight so much with these rascals, big rascals. They want to keep them. He is mūḍha, he is blind, and he's trying to lead other blind men. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām (SB 7.5.31). Rascal does not know that he is hand and bound..., hand and leg, bound up by the laws of material; still he denies, that "I am independent. I can think independently. I can avoid God," and so many things. Therefore they are mūḍhas. He cannot do it. In every inch he is bound up, and still he is thinking, "independent." That is the first-class mūḍha. Mūḍho 'yaṁ nābhijānāti loko mām ajam avyayam (BG 7.25). Every... Dark, darkness. He keeps himself in darkness. This life was given to him by nature to become liberated by understanding God, but he does not take care of. He is making plan: "We shall be happy like this. We shall be happy like this. We shall be happy like this." Therefore they are mūḍhas. That will not help him. He does not know that. And if he simply tries to understand Kṛṣṇa, he becomes immediately liberated. Janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti.. (BG 4.9).. Everything is there. But he will do so many plans, and nothing will be successful. He'll avoid Kṛṣṇa. This is the first-class mūḍha. Athāto brahma jijñāsā, the Vedānta philosophy's first instruction: "Now you inquire about God. This is the only chance. As cats and dogs you cannot do that. Now, atha, ataḥ. You have enjoyed your senses so much as cats, dogs, tigers, so on, so on. Now you devote to understand, inquiry." Athāto brahma jijñāsā.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa captured him, (laughs) that "You come to China. You'll be successful." And when you will ask me, I shall go.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When?
Prabhupāda: Among the higher, to speak among the higher circle, philosophical, I'll go immediately.
Hṛdayānanda: Jagad-guru.
Prabhupāda: Jaya. (break) ...to change your dress like gentleman.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's not difficult.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That doesn't matter.
Prabhupāda: Both of you become as gentlemen, American gentlemen. Kibā vipra kibā śūdra nyāsī kene naya. Everyone. Yei kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā sei guru haya (CC Madhya 8.128). (break) We shall talk on the philosophy, or distribution of equal wealth.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So this thing you have to convince them. Why should you allow them to remain a rascal? Now the sun is rising. Does it mean all of a sudden a sun is created? So these are the examples. You have to preach like that. Simply believe your eyes? You believe also there was no sun; now it is sun. That means all of a sudden a sun became created. See the intelligent persons and convince them. Yad yad ācārati śreṣṭhaḥ (BG 3.21). Pick up the best man. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He picked up the best men, Sanātana Gosvāmī, Rūpa Gosvāmī. So His movement became successful. Sanātana Gosvāmī was not an ordinary man. Very educated, learned brāhmaṇa and minister, Caitanya Mahāprabhu picked up. Similarly Rūpa Gosvāmī, similarly Jīva Gosvāmī. Picked up means by His preaching they became converted. So similarly pick up a person like Sanātana Gosvāmī, intelligent, in position, and try to convince him. Why he will not be convinced, if he's a human being? This is not religion. That I am breathing, what is this breathing? Eh? What is the breathing?
Guru-kṛpā: Air going in and out.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, when the breathing is stopped, why don't you manufacture some machine that breathing will come again? Why you cannot do it? Everyone knows it is air. Put some machine within and let there be breathing. Tell me why you cannot do it?
Tripurāri: Some places the police have a conspiracy against our devotees.
Prabhupāda: What is our fault?
Tripurāri: We have no fault except that we are successful. We are so successful, and they are envious.
Prabhupāda: That they don't want.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The people want, but the authorities don't want.
Prabhupāda: You have found out?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, I.... The index is not there, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: There is no index?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No index. First chapter?
Prabhupāda: No, how you'll find it? Give me. Unless you have an index, list.... The purport of the verse is that even Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu—He is God himself, Kṛṣṇa Himself—He felt, alone, unable to do this task. He felt. So this is the position. You are cooperating; therefore I am getting the credit. Otherwise alone what could I do? Ekākī āmāra nāhi pāya bolo. Caitanya Mahāprabhu Himself wanted our cooperation. He is God, Kṛṣṇa. And therefore cooperation is very important thing. Nobody should think that "I have got so great ability. I can do." No. It is simply by cooperation we can do very big thing.
Pañcadraviḍa: Can you repeat why you said you have been successful where others have not?
Prabhupāda: Because I stick to Kṛṣṇa's word. I, therefore, present Bhagavad-gītā as it is. We do not make any amendment nor accept any amendment. And, therefore, we decry everything—Gandhi, Dr. Radhakrishnan, Aurobindo, this, that—all rascals. Because they tried to amend it. That is admitted by the science professor. They have all tried to make it modernized, but I have not done. Here is the spiritual master in the disciplic succession, so we remain indebted to him to understand the original traditional knowledge.
Devotee: Also that professor from Mexico City, he appreciated.
Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone who is after truth will accept. If he's a bogus, if you want to be cheated and cheat others, that will not. Ninety-nine percent, they are cheaters and cheated. This is the position. All these cheaters they are cheating, and they accept to be cheated. If I am very clever that I don't want to be cheated, then nobody can cheat me. But these rascals, they want to be cheated. If you say, "No, no, what is the wrong in illicit sex?" That means you want to be cheated. And if you say, "(indistinct) this swami is very conservative." This is the position.
Guru-kṛpā: You know how to spread Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore I follow. I don't even know what Kṛṣṇa is. I'm just trying to follow. Therefore that will be successful.
Prabhupāda: That is my preaching. What Kṛṣṇa said, you say as it is. Don't change. How you can give interpretation? And if he thinks that he can give another interpretation, what is this nonsense? Then he's not following guru or Kṛṣṇa, both. Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya (CC Madhya 19.151). One has to receive the mercy of guru and Kṛṣṇa. Through guru, Kṛṣṇa's mercy.
Guru-kṛpā: If they go on like this, can this be considered sampradāya-vihīna ye mantras te viphalaṁ mataḥ? That is, their mantra is not so effective if people are surrendering to Kṛṣṇa. Just like milk touched with the lips.... (end)
Prabhupāda: Not developed. But you cannot say there is no soul. Sometimes they say foolishly that the animal, there is no soul. That is foolishness. Everywhere there is soul. It is not developed. So just like a child is as good as animal, but you cannot say in the child there is no soul. The consciousness is not developed. You can say like that. Similarly, there are 8,400,000 species of forms. They are different on account of different development of consciousness. A tree, there is consciousness, but it is very, very covered. If you cut the tree, it does not protest, because the consciousness is not developed. I have seen in children surgical operation. They do not require anesthetics. I remember. My eldest daughter, when she was child, she had some boil here. So the doctor wanted to operate. So I asked him that "Apply anesthetic or do something." "No, no, they don't require." And so the doctor cut the boil, and the child simply, "Ehhh, ehhh," no crying. I have seen it when they did.... No crying. Because the consciousness is not developed. Now, what do you mean by...? When you are unconscious, if your head is cut off, you do not understand. That is practical if by medicinal process you are made into unconsciousness, chloroform anesthetic, so that you don't feel. This is practical. So unless the consciousness is developed, one's soul's full-fledged function does not develop. So this is a chance in the human form of body that the consciousness should be developed. Therefore we are presenting these books. They can understand. We are not presenting the books to the cats and dogs. They cannot understand. Those who are developed conscious, they can understand, and they can understand the value of life, what is the objective of life. Then he acts accordingly, and his life becomes successful.
Prabhupāda: The child can understand, "Now, two finger and two finger, it becomes four finger." In this way we have to learn it. Therefore there are so many books. It is for the human being to learn. But if we simply remain civilized like cats and dog, then what is your advancement of civilization? There is no advancement. If you sit on this chair, and the others, they are sitting on the floor, sitting purpose is served. But if you say, "Sitting on the chair is civilized, and that is uncivilized," that is mental concoction. You have to serve your purpose. If by sitting on the floor you can understand what you are, that is civilization. And without understanding yourself, if you waste your time for manufacturing a chair, that is cats' and dogs' civilization. So that is going on. They are busy in manufacturing chairs, how to sit comfortably, without any knowledge that what is the value of life and what is life. This is going on. They are thinking that constructing big, big skyscraper building and motorcars and high roads and so many, so many, unnecessary things, that is advancement of civilization. No. Advancement of civilization is there when you know what you are. That is advancement of.... You can.... There is no prohibition. The materialistic way of civilization, constructing big, big house, there is no.... You don't stop it, but if you forget yourself—you do not know what you are—then it is wasting time because the human life is specially meant for understanding "What I am?" The cats and dogs, they cannot do. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, to enlighten people actually what he is, what is the aim of life and how his life will be successful, how at the present moment he is living, how he is spoiling his valuable life. These are the subject matter dealt in these books.
Prabhupāda: Yes, brāhmaṇas were controlling the kṣatriyas. They were obeying the instruction of brāhmaṇas. That is social function. The first-class man will give instruction to the government, and the government will carry the order, "Whether people are actually doing this?" Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya. And vaiśya will produce food grain and milk sufficiently. And the śūdras, they will help these three higher classes. That's all. This is social system. (break) The brāhmaṇas, they will be always engaged to make plan how people will be successful in the aim of life. And that will be executed through the kṣatriyas. And the vaiśyas will supply foodstuff. Food is also required. And good government is required, and nice direction is required. This is brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya. And śūdra, they have no brain; they will abide by the orders of these higher sections, that's all. So our movement is creating first-class brāhmaṇa, and the kṣatriyas, if they abide by our instruction-our instruction means Kṛṣṇa's instruction—then everything will be nicely done. Sannyāsīs, they have begun to keep secretaries.
Guru-kṛpā: Yogi Bhajan.
Prabhupāda: Reason is that Hare Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa is the name of God, Kṛṣṇa. So if you... Kṛṣṇa is absolute, God is absolute. God's name and God, there is no difference. That is absolute idea. So if you chant Kṛṣṇa's name, that means you associate with Kṛṣṇa directly, God. And by associating with God, you become purified. Then the dirty things within your mind... You are thinking, "I am this body," as the dog is also thinking, "I belong to America," "I belong to Australia," "I belong to New Zealand," "I... India," and... These wrong conception will go away. Then we'll understand that "I am not this or that; I am spirit soul, part and parcel of God." Then real knowledge begins, and if we act accordingly, our life becomes successful. So this movement is not meant for you and me—for everyone who is intelligent human being.
Interviewer: Thank you, Swami. That wraps it up for me unless anybody's got any more questions? Thank you, thank you very much.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Thank you very much. (end)
Prabhupāda: And you can disvertise(?) it from New Zealand or from Australia. There can be very peaceful condition of the whole world. Simply mismanaged by the rascal leaders. Otherwise, people can live very peacefully, eat sumptuously, save time, and there is no necessity of stopping the bare necessities of life. There is arrangement for eating, sleeping, sex life also. But not like fools and rascals. Like sane man. But this modern civilization, it is insane, crazy civilization. There is a little pleasure in sex life—simply sex life, increase sex life, spoiling everything. That is crazy. Eating-eat anything, any nonsense thing, and become a hog. Sleeping-oḥ, there is no limit, twenty-four hours sleeping if it is possible. Go on, this is going on. Eating, sleeping, mating. And defense—and discover atomic weapon, this weapon, that weapon, and kill innocent persons, unnecessarily, defense. This is going on. But everything can be used properly for peaceful condition, and when you become peaceful, no disturbance, then you can very happily chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and your life becomes successful. This is our program. We don't want to stop anything. How it can be stopped? Whatever is the bare neces.... Just like we have taken sannyāsa. What is that? "Oh, we have no sex life only. Otherwise, we are also eating, we are also sleeping." So that is also stopped in good old age. In old age, if a person like me, at the age of eighty years, if I would have shopped for sex life, does it look very good? Young men, they are allowed. That's all right. But a young..., old man is going to the club and spending for sex life so much money. Therefore younger generation, they're allowed gṛhastha life from twenty-five years to fifty years. That's all. After that, stop sex life.
Prabhupāda: Go on in the standard way, keep yourself pure; then movement is sure to be successful. But if you want to spoil it by whimsical, then what can be done? It will be spoiled. If you manufacture whims and disagree and fight amongst yourself, then it will be another edition of these so-called movements. It will lose the spiritual strength. Always remember it. You cannot.... Now, actually, people are surprised: "What this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra has got power that it is changing so quickly?" And on the other hand, it is to be admitted, unless it has got power, how it is changing? So we have to keep that power. Don't make it an ordinary musical vibration. It is a different thing, spiritual. Although it seems like musical vibration, but it is spiritual, completely. Mantrauśadhi-vaśa. Even, by mantra, the snakes can be charmed. So mantra is not ordinary sound vibration. So we have to keep the mantra in potency, potent, by offenseless chanting, by remaining pure. If you pollute the mantra, then it will lose its effect. (devotees discuss some money matters in background)
Devotee (2): So concerning the temple, Śrīla Prabhupāda, I talked to some boys, and the one boy, Dhūmra(?), he used to be in Australia, he made a fifteen-foot-high Lord Caitanya. Do you remember at the Ratha-yātrā?
Prabhupāda: Hmm. Hmm.
Prabhupāda: So this movement should be pushed very vigorously. And so far, we have become successful. And enemies will be always, as soon as there is something good. That is the way of material world. Even Kṛṣṇa had enemies, what to speak of us. Eh? So many enemies, but He was powerful; He killed all them. Nobody could kill Him, but there was attempt to kill Him from the very beginning of His birth. He had so many enemies. As soon as Kaṁsa heard that his sister is now newly married, but as soon as there was some foretelling, "Ah, you are taking care of your sister so nicely. The eighth child of this sister will kill you." "Oh, where is your child? Where is pregnancy?" Nothing. He became angry. "So why wait for eighth child? Kill my sister." Long, long before taking birth of Kṛṣṇa, the mother was to be killed. This is the position of this material world. So he became so bad that "My sister..." He did not consider that "She is my sister, and she is just newly married. Where is pregnancy? Where is child? And that is the eighth child, and what will happen after that?" No consideration. Immediately, "Kill him, kill her." This is the position. So we are instructing: no intoxication. So those who are flourishing by selling cigarettes and wine and liquor, they do not... "Immediately kill him." Oh, yes, in this way. "If they, the movement goes and becomes very strong, then our business will be lost. Kill him."
Prabhupāda: This is our position. Gradually they will show Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. In India also, although India's... They will want to crush down this movement. So this will be up to Him. Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa's movement, the same thing. And Kṛṣṇa was attempted to be killed by Kaṁsa class of men and his company, the demons. So it will be there; it is already there. Don't be disappointed, because that is the meaning that it is successful. Kṛṣṇa's favor is there, because Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's movement is not different, identical. So as Kṛṣṇa was attempted to be killed, many, many years before He appeared... At eighth child, if the mother produces child yearly, still ten years, eight years before His birth, the mother was to be attempted to be killed. So there may be attempt like that. And Lord Jesus Christ was killed. So they may kill me also.
Siddha-svarūpa: I don't think that is possible.
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) He is the right person.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. And the restaurant is very successful. Also they have not advertised that, but every day about fifty people come for the lunch, and at least another seventy, eighty people come in the evening for dinner. For a full meal each person pays an average about $2.50.
Prabhupāda: That's cheap.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All you can eat for two dollars...
Prabhupāda: And for public it is very cheap.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very inexpensive. And if they advertise it, they won't be able to handle all the people who come. It's such a central location.
Prabhupāda: It will be automatically advertised. When people will say, "Oh, there is a nice ISKCON restaurant, and it is so cheap and so nice," people will come. Just like in our Vṛndāvana temple, we don't advertise. Of course, that's.... People are coming by thousands. I thought that so long distance from the city, nobody will come. But Balarāma is so powerful, He's bringing: "Come out here." (laughter) Otherwise, I was.... What is that? Plowing? Yamunā was threatened.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And you have got the intelligence. I have seen. I have studied you. Now you combine. Both of you, you are intelligent. You turn the whole America Kṛṣṇa conscious. Bas. Then success all over the world. America is the leader of the nations. Now, if the America becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious, then our movement is perfectly successful. And you have got the potency in America.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: These men are all in Asia, though. His father's biggest concern.... See, his father.... The company is divided into two: the American branch of Seagrams, and the overseas, which incorporates the whole world outside of America. His father is the president of overseas. So his father has all connections with all of the embassies overseas, all of the big corporations overseas.
Prabhupāda: So all these big, big men, let them have one set of books and study. It is not any expenditure for them, but if at their leisure hour they read some of the line—they are all intelligent men-they'll get ideas, what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So through the influence of father, just try to introduce our books to these big men. It is not.... They may keep them in library, and at leisure hour, if they simply glance over the line, oh, it will be great success.
Prabhupāda: We are soldiers of Kṛṣṇa, servants of Arjuna. Simply you will have to act accordingly, then you will finish up enemies. They have no power, although their number is hundred times. Just like Kurus and the Pāṇḍavas. They have no power, yatra yogeśvaraḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (BG 18.78). Keep Kṛṣṇa in your side, then everything will be successful. Tatra śrīr vijayo bhūtiḥ.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we have to go now, catch our (indistinct). You'll be coming to America in about a month's time?
Prabhupāda: I think so.
Hari-śauri: Two weeks.
Prabhupāda: Three.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The Ratha-yātrā in New York is taking place on July 18th.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, we simply say that the scientists have done nothing good to further human cause.
Prabhupāda: No, we don't say that. We say that you take credit as far as you have been successful. Why do you say there is no God? We protest against that.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (break) ...there's a God, then they won't be making so many materialistic arrangements.
Prabhupāda: You don't require it. (break) ...so many materialistic improvements, we require open field like this. We require trees. That is nature's gift. Although we have got this car, we come here to take advantage of nature's gift. Why you have come here? The city was there. I don't like. So actually you enjoy nature's gift. Important persons, they work whole week in the city, and as soon as there is weekend they go to the village. Why? The enjoyment is in the village. They do not like to stay in the factory. It is disgusting. (break)
Prabhupāda: First of all, I started the book. That is, by Kṛṣṇa's grace, it is becoming successful. Then diorama. Then I shall give next idea.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This diorama is a major idea.
Prabhupāda: (laughs)
Rāmeśvara: I brought the Time magazine people to see it. They were so impressed they wanted to come when the museum is open, to make a story.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Rāmeśvara: They never saw anything like it.
Prabhupāda: Deal with them very nicely. We get publicity.
Rāmeśvara: It's very costly.
Prabhupāda: Never mind. Cost, Kṛṣṇa will send money.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This project here will cost, how much? About seventy...
Rāmeśvara: The actual project, without considering how much the devotees live on, forty thousand dollars.
Prabhupāda: Now, if He is ordering to become His devotee, how can I try to become another God, competitor? This is the folly, and for this we are suffering. He asked him, "You become My devotee." And I want to become another God, competitor. And therefore we are suffering. We cannot become another God. That is not possible. But artificially you are trying. Therefore you are suffering. Anything you try artificially, you'll suffer. If you try for a thing artificially, then what is the result? Result will be suffering and disappointment. Therefore śāstra says, tasyaiva hetoḥ prayeteta kovidaḥ. Don't try for such things... You have tried all through in different forms of life. You have failed. So don't try for that. But try to become servant of God. Then your life will be successful. Because in the material world the endeavor is how to become God in different varieties: how to become president, how to become minister, how to become master, how to become very strong man, very wealthy man, very beautiful man, so on, so on, so on, up to—when everything fails—then how to become God. When everything fails, then, ultimately, "Now I shall become God." The same disease is there, how to become big, now the biggest. And that is the same disease in a different form. Therefore, Caitanya-caritāmṛta, it is said, kṛṣṇa-bhakta-niṣkāma, ataeva śānta, bhukti-mukti-siddhi-kāmī-'aśānta' (CC Madhya 19.149). Bhukti means material enjoyment. Karmīs... Just like ordinary men, they are working so hard day and night. This airplane is running here and there, (loud airplane passing over) day and night, carrying karmīs. So this is bhukti. How to enjoy this material world fully, this is called bhukti.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.
Richard: But do you think they are successful?
Prabhupāda: They are successful if they follow the education. Just like Christ, he's speaking of kingdom of God. So if you follow Christ, there is hope that you go to kingdom of God. But if you don't follow, you simply rubberstamp, "I am Christian," then it is useless.
Richard: But there are other...?
Prabhupāda: Yes, they are of the same type.
Richard: Yes, but do they have any value as far as you are concerned?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, they have value.
Richard: Okay, that's what I was trying to get at.
Prabhupāda: There is value.
Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda meant that the other branches of knowledge outside of our...
Richard: Oh, yes, right, I wasn't talking about that.
Rāmeśvara: That was mis...
Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. I think of these things. No, there is analogy, just like when you fly in the sky, you take sufficient petrol in the wings, sufficient, so many thousands of gallons. And if there is no petrol, then you'll fall down. So I theorize these things, (laughs) that these planets are floating in the air on account of petrol. If you finish the petrol stock, then we drop. Analogy. Indirectly, my desire is that "Why you are wasting your time in this way? Your life is short here. Then utilize it for self-realization. What is the use of this civilization, civilization that for artificial necessities of life you waste your whole duration of life and next life you become a cat or dog? Suppose you are successful in this life manufacturing these big, big skyscrapers. Next life, if you become a cockroach in the same house, toilet room.... There is possibility." Kṛṣṇa..., tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). You have to change your body, and there is no guarantee that you'll have to change in this type of body. Any body. The cockroach is also a body. Therefore they don't believe in the next life.
Rāmeśvara: You said they have developed so many different weapons, so they must use them.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: That is the difficulty. The government is rākṣasa. So you have to take charge of the government. First of all make propaganda, the majority of population may (be) in favor of you. Then you'll get vote. This is the easiest process. If majority people likes, that "These Kṛṣṇa conscious men are very nice," then you make a candidate—"Vote for Kṛṣṇa conscious person, such and such." They'll vote. In this way, you'll capture the Senate, then government, then President's office. It is very.... At least, there must be majority of the people sympathizers of this movement. Then it will be successful. So you do everything exemplified, and people will vote. But it is difficult in this way, that "These people are prohibiting intoxication and gambling. How we can live without this?" That is the difficulty. They cannot imagine even that without these things one can live. Is it not?
Hari-śauri: It's a fact. If you stop them doing that, they'll have no activity, just working.
Rakṣaṇa: We should expand our New Bhakta program so that they can have weekend stays in āśramas, have practical experience.
Prabhupāda: That they are coming.
Mādhavānanda: (break) ...of birds.
Prabhupāda: Yes. As soon as there are trees, there will be birds.
Prabhupāda: Yasya deve parā bhaktir yathā deve tathā gurau (ŚU 6.23). That is the secret of success. If one has got unflinching faith in his spiritual master and Kṛṣṇa, then he's successful. Two things. Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpā-pāya bhakti-latā-bīja. So if the guru is false, then how they can keep their faith? That will be broken. Our process is very simple. There is no difficulty. You have seen our Los Angeles temple? When we purchased, it was a church, perhaps you know. Nobody was coming, so that they were obliged to sell. They started this Sunday class, this, that, so many things. In Melbourne also we have seen a big.... What was that?
Hari-śauri: It used to be what they call a Christian Brothers school.
Prabhupāda: That we wanted to purchase?
Hari-śauri: Oh, that nunnery.
Prabhupāda: Nunnery. So they wanted to maintain themselves by becoming washermen. Still, they could not maintain. They eventually became washerwoman to maintain. Huge establishment. So I wanted, negotiation was there. They persisted that the church should not be broken. No? To be broken.
Prabhupāda: No, this Jagannātha festival will be participated by all the Indians. There is no doubt about it. So our few men, and with the cooperation of the local Indians, it can be successful.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No doubt, but what about the daily worship? Should we have Jagannātha deities if it's not possible for worshiping them? Should we have them just for the festival?
Prabhupāda: What is the difficulty of worshiping? You are already worshiping Gaura-Nitāi. Then what is the difficulty? The same.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, I'm just afraid that visa problems with the brāhmaṇas.
Prabhupāda: No, no, if you are worshiping Nitāi-Gaura, along with Jagannātha, where is the difficulty?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We only have two brāhmaṇas in South Africa.
Prabhupāda: No, one brāhmaṇa, half brāhmaṇa will do. Only one hand will do.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I suggested Śyāmasundara that on a truck you make a ratha-like dome, and put this. It was successful.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It was in New York?
Prabhupāda: It was San Francisco. The first beginning was in San Francisco.
Hari-śauri: There was pictures of you riding on that ratha cart, that was a truck?
Prabhupāda: No, rather, that was second or third. In the beginning, it was in a truck. So if the people are eager, you immediately organize.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Okay.
Hari-śauri: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Did you want to go out into the garden tonight or not?
Prabhupāda: I have no objection.
Hari-śauri: 'Cause there's no sunshine now.
Prabhupāda: This paper is conducted by the Indians?
Scheverman: So your particular plan is then to provide this kind of enlightenment, this kind of direction and education, through the ascetical process in which your group is involved. Yes. We, of course, have made efforts along this line through our schools and through our religious communities that have been successful more or less depending on efforts given to it.
Prabhupāda: The second-class man is also described, who is the second class.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "Heroism, power, determination, resourcefulness, courage in battle, generosity, and leadership are the qualities of work for the kṣatriyas," or the administrators.
Prabhupāda: This is second class. They are not first class, they are second class. First class is above mentioned.
Scheverman: The brāhmaṇa
Prabhupāda: Yes, then second class. Second class also required.
Scheverman: Also requires training, yes.
Prabhupāda: Suppose if there is war. So first-class men, they cannot go to fight; they are not trained up. But the second-class man who is trained up.... What is that quality?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Satāṁ prasaṅgān mama vīrya-saṁvido bhavanti hṛt-karṇa-rasāyanāḥ kathāḥ (SB 3.25.25). Therefore sādhu-saṅga wanted. Association of devotees. That is wanted. Then our life will be successful. Not mysticism.
Satsvarūpa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I think Bhakta Gene wants to know if you recognize that there are any great devotees in that Christian tradition. Do we recognize that any of those Christian saints were great devotees? Did they develop love of God? Or what's the comparison?
Prabhupāda: I do not know, I have not studied Christianity. But if anyone has developed love, that is perfection. So there is not question of my knowing or not knowing. If actually one has developed love for God, he's perfect. That's all.
Bhakta Gene: This is what prompted me to ask my first question, Your Grace. What has brought me here has been my search...
Prabhupāda: No, it is God's desire that you are sincere, you have come. Now utilize the association and the opportunity, your life will be successful. We have got enough books to convince you about this science. So you read it.
Bhakta Gene: I am convinced.
Prabhupāda: No, no, that has not been properly done. Otherwise, just like here, we have got temple, regulative principle. If it is done properly, the result will be there. If it is improperly done, then there is no result. How these boys, European, American, they never knew what is Kṛṣṇa. But on account of this following the traditionalism, they are becoming devotees. It is practical, you can see. Simply theoretical knowledge will not do. Must be practical. That is traditionalism. Tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt. That is the Nectar of Instruction. Tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt. This is traditional. One has to follow the traditional rules and regulations. Utsāhān niścayād dhairyāt tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt (Upadeśāmṛta 3). First of all one must be enthusiastic: "I shall become devotee." Then, utsāhān dhairyāt, with patience. Then niścayāt, with conviction: "Yes, I am following the rules and it will be successful." And tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt. You have to follow the traditional rules and regulations. Sato vṛtteḥ, you must be honest. Sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83). And these things in the association of devotees. Ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati. Then your bhakti, devotional life, will be successful.
Satsvarūpa: Some of these Christian mystics would say it's more important to directly contact God within your own heart. These traditions are not as important.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I never said that "You have to give up this, you have to do this." Never said. Then gradually ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). When the heart becomes cleansed, then little. There is no hopelessness. So many people have come, and they are coming. Both black, white, everyone is coming. There is no question of (indistinct). But you cannot expect that cent percent people will come; that is not possible. But even, even one-fourth percent people come to this, then it will be successful. Compared to the American population, what percentage we have got? Still they have made some impression, the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. Literatures are selling, they are appreciating, learned circle. Takes some time, but if we stick to our principles and do not make any compromise and push on—in this way, I have given you instruction, it will never stop; it will go on. It will never stop. At least for ten thousand years it will go on. That is your... (indistinct) And this movement is meant for these fourth-class, fifth-class, tenth-class men. Not this movement is fourth class, fifth class. They are so fallen that they cannot be counted even third class, fourth class-tenth-class of men. Deliver them. Patita-pāvana-hetu tava avatāra. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's incarnation is for delivering these classes of men. Caitanya Mahāprabhu never meant to start this movement for high-class brāhmaṇas, sages, saintly persons—no. This class of men. For the all fallen. Don't be disappointed, go on, go on. Stick to the principles. When there was no response, I did not know where to live, where to eat. Sometimes at Dr. Mishra's, sometimes with some friend somewhere. Where to live. And I was going to inquire the shipping company when the next ship returning to India. Still I was renewing my visa: "Let us hope. Let us hope." In this way, we started Second Avenue in month of July, I think?
Prabhupāda: All the duties, the summarization of duty: ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. There are different duties, but the real duty is saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (SB 1.2.13), whether you have satisfied Kṛṣṇa. Then you'll have done all.... Ataḥ pumbhiḥ. Because there are different types of duties. But whatever you do, the success is whether by your duty you have satisfied Kṛṣṇa. Then it is successful.
Indian man (4): Prabhu, how do you regard the detachment idea?
Prabhupāda: There is no question of detachment. These are all bogus propaganda. You cannot be detached. Duty does not mean detachment. You have to do your duty. There is attachment. Where is the detachment? These are simply bogus propaganda. There cannot be detachment. Detachment means, real detachment means that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. So you have no proprietorship. That is detachment. If you falsely claim "It is mine," that is attachment, unnecessary. It is not yours.
Indian man (4): Should we not move from attachment to detachment gradually, and try to...
Prabhupāda: Saṁskāra... The real aim is to bring the rascal to the platform of knowledge. That is called saṁskāra. Janmana jāyate śūdra. By birth everyone is the same, śūdras, means without any knowledge. But the saṁskāra means śūdra, rascal, without any knowledge of spiritual life, to gradually bring him to the spiritual platform. That is called saṁskāra. And saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ. That is essential. The human life is the opportunity for understanding what he is and what is the aim of his life. The aim of life is back to home, back to Godhead. We are part and parcel of God. Somehow or other we are in this material existence. So aim is again come to our spiritual life, spiritual existence, where there is no struggle for existence, blissful, happy life. Because actually we want happiness, blissful life. That is not possible in the material world. That is in the spiritual world. That is the aim. So every human being should be given chance. That is real education. That is called saṁskāra. So these saṁskāra, there are dāsa-vidha-saṁskāraḥ... So in this age it is very difficult, but if one chants Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra without any offense, being trained up by the spiritual master, all the saṁskāras automatically become done and he comes to his original spiritual position, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, "I am spirit soul. The Kṛṣṇa is Param Brahman, and I am Brahman." As Arjuna said, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). Kṛṣṇa is also Brahman, I am also Brahman. But He's Supreme Brahman, I am minute Brahman. So my business is to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is teachings of Lord Caitanya, jīvera 'svarūpa' haya (sic:) nitya kṛṣṇa-dāsa (CC Madhya 20.108). So if he engages himself in his original spiritual business, to act as the servant of Kṛṣṇa, then all reformation is done. So that advantage is given in this age: kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ param... (SB 12.3.51). Reformatory process is meant for purifying him so he becomes mukta-saṅgaḥ. Mukta-saṅgaḥ means liberated from all this bad association of material existence. And he becomes eligible to go back to home, back to Godhead. So this is the special advantage. The question is "Whether they should be revived?" They should be revived to the lowest necessity, but all of them cannot be revived in this age. But people should be induced to take to chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa maha-mantra. Then all reformation will automatically become manifest and he will come to spiritual platform, brahma-bhūtaḥ, the realization of Brahman. Then prasannātmā, he'll be happy. There is no lamentation, there is no undesirable hankering. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. He sees everyone on the spiritual platform. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. In this way he comes to the platform of devotional service, and then his life becomes successful. Is that question answered or not?
Prabhupāda: So the whole thing is that if you chant hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra and give up these sinful activities, automatically you become reformed, come to the spiritual platform, and in this way your life will become successful.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Can we go on to the next question, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Question fourteen. "It is said that the karma-kāṇḍa in the Vedas has almost gone out of use, except for a few rites which remain in vogue for marriage, śraddhās, etc. Is it advisable to revive the karma-kāṇḍa with its stress on the performance of various yajñas?"
Prabhupāda: So that is not possible in this... Taking consideration of the time, circumstances, it is not possible. There are different kinds of karma-kāṇḍīya-yajña. It is expensive also and there is no expert brāhmaṇa to guide how to perform this yajña. So Kali-yuga, it is not possible to perform yajñas. Kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇuṁ tretāyāṁ yajato makhaiḥ (SB 12.3.52). In the Treta-yuga yajñas were possible. Dvāpare paricaryāyāṁ kalau tad dhari-kīrtanāt, that in this age of Kali-yuga the real yajña is hari-kīrtana. Yajñaiḥ saṅkīrtana-prāyair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ (SB 11.5.32).
Hari-śauri: Well, they don't... They're establishing a standard now. They don't have a standard. They are always going to try to claim that it is beneficial. Otherwise, if it's judged a failure, then they won't get any money.
Prabhupāda: That way they are successful—in getting money.
Hari-śauri: So they have to say it's a success. Just like this Mars thing. If they can land a spaceship that takes a few photographs, supposedly of Mars, then that's considered a success.
Prabhupāda: Photograph you can take anywhere.
Hari-śauri: Yes. Could they actually...? Are they actually sending these spaceships to another planet, or...
Prabhupāda: That they know. According to our calculations, they have not gone. Therefore false propaganda. They cannot go. (end)
Hari-śauri: Ten years ago if they'd have asked these questions before you came to the West, they wouldn't even have thought about going to the West. They are only asking that now because they can see in the last ten years we've been so much successful.
Prabhupāda: They do not know what is bhakti, what is Vedānta. They do not know. Simply aspiring, all after women and money, that's all. First-class rogues. I know all of them, all first-class rogues, after money and women. Beginning from Vivekananda. But they are so popular, if you say openly... Satyam bruhet ma bruhet satyam apriyam(?). "You can speak truth, but don't speak which is unpalatable." But we speak in a different way. And directly we don't speak. People will be angry. They're already fools and rascals.
Prabhupāda: Just stick to this principle, then you will be successful. Bhakti śreyaḥ śrutim. That is the real welfare. Śreyaḥ śrutim means "expands auspicity." (apparently talking about a picture) And they want to become one with God. And here is not one, but God is so lower that He carries the shoe of His devotee. Have they got any conception like this? (laughs)
Hari-śauri: They are always talking about...
Prabhupāda: There is a verse śruti mahāpure śruti mahāpure. You know this?
Pradyumna: Śruti apare?
Prabhupāda: Śruti mahāpure. (indistinct) yasya linde paraṁ brahma. "Let others worship the śrutis and others smṛtis, all these Vedic literature, and others Mahābhārata for liberation. But I shall worship Nanda Mahārāja, because in his courtyard the Param Brahmā is loitering. I shall worship Nanda Mahārāja. He's so powerful that he's made the Param Brahman come here and carry his shoes." Śruti mahāpure (indistinct) yasya linde paraṁ brahma.
Prabhupāda: No, no. He wants to talk or you want to talk?
Devotee (2): I want to talk to them.
Prabhupāda: No.
Rūpānuga: I tried that, Srila Prabhupāda. It wasn't very successful. They're not serious. They shake hands and smile, but they don't want to talk any business.
Hari-śauri: They're so filled up with diplomacy anyway, it's impossible for them to understand anything. (break)
Devotee (2): If "Hare" means energy of the Lord, what energy is that?
Prabhupāda: Reply someone.
Prabhupāda: If devotees take up the whole world for management, then everyone will be happy. It is no doubt it. Kṛṣṇa wants that. He wanted the Pāṇḍavas should be in charge of the government. Therefore He took part in the fighting. "Yes, you should be the... All the Kauravas should be killed, and Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira installed." That is the dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). He wants everything goes very smoothly and people become God conscious. So their life be successful. That is Kṛṣṇa's plan. That, "These rascal misleading and therefore... the (indistinct) the human life has been spoiled." Therefore I was talking about the "What is the meaning of the independence, (indistinct)?" ? The life is spoiled. And they will spoil their life and become next life a dog, and this big, big building, with stair, that's all. What the big buildings will do benefit to these people who is going to be a dog next life? Taking as a theory, that those who have constructed this big, big building and next life they're going to be a dog.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: But they don't know that next life they're going to be a dog.
Prabhupāda: That is the difficulty. They do not know it. Therefore māyā. It is same thing (indistinct). The life is meant for spiritual realization. They are not (indistinct) chance. They're going to become dog, and they think that, "Now we have got this big building, that is success."
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They got some experiments that we want to do, on purely scientific level...
Prabhupāda: You can do it, it is a fact. You can do it, you'll be successful.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, there are some experiments that we can do. They have been doing some experiments last three or four months to supplement...
Prabhupāda: So you say, in the history these are two problems...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh yeah, these are the greatest...
Prabhupāda: So we have trust these two points.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Once these two points are solved, then the knowledge will be very clear.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Everything will be very harmonious and come to a common conclusion. But so long as...
Prabhupāda: We are giving the solution, let them take it. This is our greatest contribution.
Prabhupāda: A learned brāhmaṇa, is not expected to manufacture a watch, but he's more honored than one who is actually... This modern age is: if he manufactures watch he is honored. Not the learned brāhmaṇa. That is Kali-yuga. That is Kali-yuga. They do not know whom to honor. That is the Kali-yuga going on. You kill so many souls, and if you have a great big skyscraper building, then you are successful. And those who constructed the skyscraper, they are going to become dog, never mind, the skyscraper building is there. That's all. That is success. This is modern civilization. After they constructed the skyscraper building all the mistris are going to hell, that doesn't matter. The building is there. Is it not?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: This is civilization. Long ago in 1917 perhaps, in our college, we saw one magazine.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: St. Xavier's College?
Prabhupāda: No, Scottish.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, Scottish.
Prabhupāda: So in the Kali-yuga, this age, so many difficulties, social, political, religious, cultural. So in Kali-yuga the practice of yoga is not possible. It was possible in the Satya-yuga. Kṛte yad dhyāyato viṣṇum. That is meditation. That was possible in the Satya-yuga. But in Kali-yuga you can do that, the same achievement you can have by hari-kīrtana, by chanting the holy name of the Lord. And factually you'll find our, these disciples, young boys and girls, they are not practicing in a secluded place the yoga system. They are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. And bring any yogi in the world and talk with them and see the comparison. Because that is fashion only; it has no practical value. And here is practical value. Maybe one or two are successful, but mass of people, yoga practice is not recommended. That is not possible to be executed. But if you take to this hari-kīrtana movement, Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, very soon, kṣipraṁ bhavati dharmātmā śaśvac-chāntiṁ nigacchati. You see practically. They are young boys and girls. At least, they have given up the four principles of sinful life and they are practicing, and they will improve. If they stick to the principles, they will improve.
Prabhupāda: Yes, it's a fact. If you work as a brāhmaṇa, if you are thinking yourself as a brāhmaṇa, then you act as brāhmaṇa. You cannot act as a śūdra. As a brāhmaṇa you cannot accept anyone's service, then you become śūdra. You deviate from your own position. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, they'll never accept anyone's service, only the śūdra. Paricaryātmakaṁ karma śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). When you live at the mercy of others, this is called dog's business. Just like a dog lives at the mercy of the master. So it is strictly prohibited for the brāhmaṇas. Even in very difficult position, you can act as a kṣatriya, you can act as a vaiśya, but never accept the position of a dog, a śūdra. This is the injunction. Sve sve karmaṇi, you stick to your own business. If you claim as a brāhmaṇa, then you must act as a brāhmaṇa. Then you'll become successful. You cannot remain a brāhmaṇa and accept the business of a dog, that is not sve sve karmaṇi. So everything, what is stated there in the Bhagavad-gītā, that is perfect. People at the present moment, they are living at the mercy of others. That is dog's business. Therefore (in) the śāstra it is said kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. In the Kali-yuga everyone is a śūdra. There is no brāhmaṇa, no kṣatriya, no vaiśya. That is generally accepted. Because at the present moment education means to get some service. What is the value of that education? If you become dependent on others, then what is the value of this education? Therefore kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. Everyone is a śūdra. But this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement says striyo vaiśyās tathā śūdrāḥ: (BG 9.32) never mind, even if you are śūdra, take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you'll become perfect.
Prabhupāda: Yes, you act as a brahmacārī, do your brahmacārī work, you'll be successful.
Guest (3): But how do I know that I am thinking properly?
Prabhupāda: Therefore I say it is mentioned in the śāstra, brahmacārī guru-kule vasan dānto guror hitam (SB 7.12.1). If you want to be a lawyer, you must know the law. Without knowing the law, how you become a lawyer? Without knowing the engineering art, how you become engineer? So either you become a brahmacārī, gṛhastha or vānaprastha, sannyāsī, or anything, you must know what you are meant for. Without knowing, how you can become brahmacārī?
Guest (3): I must know what I am meant for.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (3): But that's what my question is, how does one know.
Prabhupāda: Then you have to go to the... Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Just like we were discussing Sanātana Gosvāmī, he has gone to Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he said, "Sir, You have brought me from the entanglement of family life. Now tell me what is my duty." So that discussion is going on. So you should approach guru and take instruction from him what is, how to act.
Prabhupāda: He's an able worker.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then he goes out and leads the hari-nāma party on the street. He's very enthusiastic to make this restaurant very successful.
Prabhupāda: But keep watch on him.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: For the women.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He gets deluded. Well, you know what we've done with all of these people, Prabhupāda, we've...
Prabhupāda: If they are disturbed, let them marry.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He doesn't want, he says he knows it's a waste of time, marriage. What we have done with Ṛṣi Kumāra and Bali-mardana is we are living with them. Like Ṛṣi Kumāra lives with Ādi-keśava Swami.
Prabhupāda: Somebody must be with him. Then it is all right. Not alone. Either Cyavana or him, some experienced devotee must be with him. Then they...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, Prabhupāda said the sun is too much. Toṣaṇa Kṛṣṇa, he's been doing all of our, he's practically done the whole arrangement for the Ratha-yātrā. Jayānanda is building, and he has done all of the permits, advertising, publicity, the poster, working at least fifteen hours a day for the last month very hard, to make it a very successful festival. I was thinking, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that Haṁsadūta was telling me that he is planning to make...
Prabhupāda: I think this article was dictated by Haṁsadūta.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ah.
Prabhupāda: Our interviewer came.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was telling me that he was planning to make thousands of men, convert thousands of Indians. I was wondering, if thousands of Indians join us, how will the government feel?
Prabhupāda: They cannot check.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really, they won't stop us.
Prabhupāda: If they want to stop it, it will increase.
Rādhāvallabha: Here's his method. First they engage in breathing. It says, "The really successful meditator sounds like an exhausted sea lion." He says "If you feel like dancing, dance, laugh, scream, sing, express your love, your hate, your anger, your jealousy. Do not condemn what happens; do not condone it. Just go mad. Express whatever is within you totally, intensity." And here's his mantra, "Who who who." That's his mantra.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They were doing this in Bhopal. In Bhopal, we were there when we had our Jeeps. So in the same place we were staying they let this group Rajneesh do it. So they were going with that mantra, "Who who." So we were standing out from the balcony shouting, "Kṛṣṇa, that's who." Every morning they would do that meditation, and we would answer "Kṛṣṇa." (laughter)
Hari-śauri: They call his method "chaotic meditation."
Prabhupāda: They say?
Hari-śauri: That's the heading, it says "Chaotic Meditation."
Rādhāvallabha: That's the name of it. After they go "Who who who who who who..."
Prabhupāda: What about..., what they have written about us?
Hari-śauri: This thing about alpha range, this is becoming a big thing. They think that if a person gets into this alpha range of brain stimulation, then his meditation is successful.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're trying to figure it all out scientifically.
Ādi-keśava: They're trying to use all kinds of machines and wires to measure consciousness. They have one group that has tin cans attached to wires, and they hold them in their hand, and then they measure it on the machine as they meditate. And when they meditate right, the needle on the machine goes right in the middle, and they think they have achieved perfection.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here is an article called "Travels Beyond the Body: what is it that travels, and what is it that's seen?" They're talking about traveling beyond your body. Here's an advertisement, "Because I have taken the mystery out of transcendental meditation, I will teach you to master transcendental meditation in a single evening." "About the author." Then it says, "Free private mantra based on your own name, selected by the great Norbell, translated by his special Sanskrit system, so that no one else in America has the same mantra twice. No other system of transcendental meditation..."
Prabhupāda: What is this? Maharishi?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Maharishi Mahesh Yogi?
Hari-śauri: No, this is competition.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, this isn't...
Hari-śauri: This is the competition.
Prabhupāda: First class.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...of the human society. But actually it's one body, one entity already, simply that with different activities that we have to perform. The example is given, mukhe bāhūru pāda-ja: That there is the head; there's the arms; there's the belly, the abdomen; and then there is the legs. And all of them are part of the same body. So you might say that the legs are removed from the head, or that the head is removed from the stomach, but actually it's all one body and it works together. But the head gives direction to the whole body, how to act properly, so that the benefit is there to be derived. So Śrīla Prabhupāda is creating a class of brāhmaṇas, or heads of human society, who can give direction to the whole sphere of human activities so that they can become successful in human life. So in reality, we're not trying to create farmers, we're trying to create brāhmaṇas.
Prabhupāda: There is an example. In a water tank you throw one stone. It becomes a circle. And the circle expands, expands, expands unless the circle comes to the shore. Similarly our loving affair begins from personal self to family, from family to society, community, nation, international. But still, it is imperfect unless the circle reaches to the lotus feet of God. Then it is satisfied. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce (CC Madhya 22.42). Here, any loving affairs, that is more or less lusty. A man or woman love each other with some desire, not without desire. That desire is sense gratification. But actually that is lust not love. Pure love can be exchanged in relationship with God. Here there are temporary... A boy, a girl or a man, a woman in relationship of love but it breaks as soon as the lusty desire is not fulfilled. So here there is no question of love. It is all lusty desire. Real love can be achieved when it is exchanged with Kṛṣṇa or God. Premā pum-artho mahān, that is the recommendation given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That is the highest (indistinct) when we come on the loving platform with God, then we are satisfied. Big, big political leaders in our country like Mahatma Gandhi, he loved his country so much. But the result was that he was killed by his own men, by his country men. But this is not possible when the love is exchanged between God. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31), a little love for God can save you from the greatest danger of life. That is real love. So if you love Kṛṣṇa, then you can love with everyone. Just like we are spreading this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is out of love for Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise we would have sat down at home and love Kṛṣṇa. Why you are trying to spread this love exchange to others? Because I know or we know that here in this material world, the so-called love exchange is frustrating, and people are being frustrated. So let him love Kṛṣṇa, then we'll be successful.
Prabhupāda: Give them prasādam. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Both of you were in India?
Satsvarūpa: No, only Mahābuddhi and Vṛndāvana, who is not here right now.
Prabhupāda: Oh. So?
Satsvarūpa: So they were very successful. Now we're thinking we'd like to take this party all over the world if we could.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Do.
Satsvarūpa: Not... So far we've had our scope, the United States, we wanted to make it the whole world.
Prabhupāda: Why not? Books are being appreciated even by rascal.
Satsvarūpa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes, so the scope is everywhere. What is your experience?
Devotee (4): India Prabhupāda, it was very, very large and I wrote him some letters, but the experience is even greater...
Prabhupāda: Oh! Mr. ... Come on. (guests come in) So Mrs. Kallman is going to become a sannyāsī, (indistinct). Gradually you have to become.
Prabhupāda: That gradual, that will never come, and that is their another foolishness.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes they are seeing, though, that by their endeavors they are successful. Just like they may try to cure some disease, and then sometimes they are seeing that they are baffled. This leads them to think they are independent. This is leading them to think that they are independent, that sometimes they are successful.
Prabhupāda: No, they try their best, but still they are baffled. That means they admit there is some controller.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: That is intelligent.
Hari-śauri: But because they are all Dr. Frog, they are thinking that things are so far out of their control that no one can control it, that material nature is not controlled by anyone. They are thinking that because they cannot control material nature, then no one can.
Prabhupāda: That is material life. The material life means falsely he's thinking that he'll be happy by material adjustment. That is material life. Falsely he's thinking. He'll never be happy, but they are thinking like that. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā (SB 7.5.31). Durāśayā means this hope will never be fulfilled. That is called durāśayā, a hope which is not going to be successful at any time. And throughout the whole history they have tried, the British Empire, the Roman Empire, the Egyptian Empire, so many they tried, but all failed. Napoleon, Hitler, but still they have no eyes to see. From the history you see, everything failed. Napoleon started with some ideal, conquering all over Europe, and at last he had to die drinking horse urine. You know that? It was, later on he was arrested by British, and when he was asking drinking water he was given horse urine. That was his last life.
Lady Guest: It's like an hypothesis.
Interviewer: Don't you find the whole Kṛṣṇa movement more successful in an age and era when there is such laxity of moral standards and spiritual leadership and direction?
Prabhupāda: No, at any stage of life, if one accepts the principles of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he can make advance.
Rāmeśvara: She asked, "Is it more favorable for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness if there is some material problems, social problems? If there is a lack of God consciousness, then people become frustrated. Is that a more favorable situation for Kṛṣṇa consciousness to take root?"
Prabhupāda: Yes, if we arrange social, political and everything favorable for spiritual understanding, then it becomes easier.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda is saying the opposite than what you hypothesized. In other words, if everything is arranged socially, politically, everything, in a God conscious, Kṛṣṇa conscious manner, then it is easier to accept the principles of God consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Only one?
- ekaś candras tamo hanti
- na ca tārā-gaṇair api
- varam eko guṇī-putro
na ca mūrkha-śatair api (?)
There is no need of hundreds of rascal child, children. One is sufficient. Varam eka. Varaṁ guṇī-putra, he must be qualified. And who is guṇī, who is a devotee and learned scholar. Ko'ta putreṇa jātena, yo na vidyā na bhaktimān(?). What is the use of such rascal child if he's not a devotee, neither learned? Khanena cakṣuṣā kiṁ cakṣuḥ pīḍaiva kevalam.(?) What is the use of blind eyes? It is simply troublesome. So let there be one child, but he must be like Prahlāda, like Dhruva Mahārāja, and then child production is beneficial. Otherwise, if we beget children like cats and dogs, what is the use? That is Cāṇakya Paṇḍita's instruction. Another example is given: ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tārā-sahasrasaḥ. If there is one moon in the sky, it is sufficient to give light to the whole sky. What is the use of millions of stars? So, it is very good that you can take care of one child and make him a great devotee and learned scholar. Then it is successful. So Dr. Bhagat, I get some pain.
Hari-śauri: 7-UP? We'll have to send someone out for it.
Prabhupāda: So, so far I was there, it was successful. What was the next?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We were selling prasādam. I think we must have made somewhere between five and ten thousand dollars so far from prasādam sales. That's in addition to the free feast. We served a free feast to five thousand people when I left.
Prabhupāda: Oh, you did not stay there?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, still, it's so big. I estimated that through three to four hours there were thirty to forty thousand people that went in and out of that park.
Prabhupāda: Still they are eating?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're still eating. Every piece of burfi we sold cost one dollar.
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just a piece of burfi...
Prabhupāda: Burfi?
Prabhupāda: We are quoting from Bhagavad-gītā the same thing. We are not presenting something manufactured. There is no need, because things in perfection is already there in the Bhagavad-gītā. There is no need of manufacturing by fools and rascals. There is no need. Everything is there in perfection. Simply we have to accept it and apply it in practical life. Then our life will be successful. Simply we have to understand it. Kṛṣṇa says that janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). Simply to understand Kṛṣṇa as He is... Then jānāti tattvataḥ, anyone who is able to understand Kṛṣṇa in truth, then what is the result? The result is tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya: (BG 4.9) "Such person, after giving up this body, he does not accept another material body." At the present moment we are giving up one material body and accepting another material body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13). This is our conditional life, but we are kept in such dense darkness of knowledge that we are thinking that "We are free. We can do whatever we like."
Prabhupāda: We simply suggest that you follow this method and you'll advance. And if anyone follows, he advances, that's all. Our, I am teacher, my business is to give them direction. So if they follow the direction, their business is successful.
Mike Robinson: Yes, but perhaps you could explain to me the different feelings that you've gone through in your life. Is that possible?
Prabhupāda: Everyone—why I, you?—everyone. So long one is in ignorance, there are different feelings. When one is in knowledge, that is permanently. Suppose a man was in ignorance, he was committing a theft and he suffered. And now when he has come to knowledge, that "This business is not good," he does not any more steal and does not suffer. That's all.
Mike Robinson: But there must be different stages that you go through, is that not correct?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, different stages.
Prabhupāda: These farming projects therefore I introduced, New Vrindaban, it is successful; Philadelphia, it is going on nicely; New Orleans; here also. In London we haven't got much land, but still we have got sufficient land. (pause) So if we have to go by jet plane on Saturday, then we shall get down Iran.
Harikeśa: We were just deciding whether.... I think it's easier in Geneva, because the airport is only fifteen minutes from the temple.
Prabhupāda: Where?
Harikeśa: In Geneva. The temple and the airport are very close, and there's a direct plane on Friday from Geneva to Bombay.
Prabhupāda: Oh. How many hours?
Harikeśa: About seven.
Prabhupāda: That's nice, that is also nice.
Harikeśa: So we're just going to decide after this which is exactly the best thing to do.
Prabhupāda: That is also nice. Which day the...?
Prabhupāda: Vasan dānto guror hitam. The beginning of life is how to become cent percent obedient to guru. That is Gurukula. That training should be given. The whole process is that our life will be successful when we strictly follow guru and Kṛṣṇa. Guru means Kṛṣṇa; Kṛṣṇa means guru. Not Māyāvāda, but guru means one who follows Kṛṣṇa, he is guru. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ **. So guru is directly God, sākṣād-hari. Sākṣād means directly. So sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas **, in every śāstra it is said the guru is one, Kṛṣṇa. So, it is stated in the śāstra and it is accepted by authorities. Not that it is simply stated. Samasta-śāstrair, uktas. You understand little Sanskrit?
Jyotirmāyī: Some verses from Bhagavad-gītā.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Ukta, ukta means "said." And sadbhiḥ, "by great personalities." Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas **, tathā, and "accordingly," tathā means "accordingly," bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ, those who are actually in transcendental platform, they should accept it. So why? Kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva... It does not mean Māyāvādī, that he has become God. But kintu prabhor yaḥ priya eva tasya, he is the most confidential servant. He's therefore servant-God.
Prabhupāda: He's good preacher. He's now distributing books very nicely. You are also good distributor books. Huh? In the beginning she was distributing nicely. So preaching is our life. The more we preach, the more we are successful. Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa. This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's preaching.
- āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa
- yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa'
- (CC Madhya 7.128)
This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Every one of you become guru and deliver the residents of your neighborhood. Ei deśa. Wherever you are living, just deliver them. Become their guru. How to become guru? It is not difficult. Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). What Kṛṣṇa has said instruct them. You simply repeat it, that's all. You become guru. So this should be preached all over the world. You learn from Bhagavad-gītā and repeat. You simply say, "Kṛṣṇa said four things: man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). 'Just always think of Me.' Kṛṣṇa said. 'And just become My devotee. Just worship Me and offer obeisances.' Kindly do these things." So if you can induce one person to do these four things, you become guru. Is there any difficulty? Then you become a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. How? Always think of Kṛṣṇa. Worship Kṛṣṇa and offer obeisances. Here is our temple, please come, offer obeisances. Offer little flower if you can secure. Otherwise, obeisances sufficient.
Prabhupāda: Going on. Up to date, to my satisfaction, it is going on.
Hari-śauri: If you're satisfied, then we know it's going to be successful.
Prabhupāda: But they fight amongst themselves, the GBCs.
Hari-śauri: Hm, that's the problem.
Prabhupāda: I did not see Harikeśa.
Hari-śauri: He was there.
Prabhupāda: Oh, he was there?
Hari-śauri: Yes. He's been feeling a bit ill today.
Prabhupāda: This is thyme herbs? No. This is the seed.
Hari-śauri: Oh, them. They grow it in the garden. The first, what you got, that was grown here. Those twigs? They were grown here in the garden. Would you like anything tonight? A piece of chavana-prash? (Harikeśa comes in)
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Prabhupāda: This is not for everyone.
Hari-śauri: There's a nice purport. Should I read the purport? "When we speak of brahmāṇḍa, we refer to the whole universe, or to the cluster of many millions of universes. In all universes, there are innumerable planets and innumerable living entities upon those planets in the air and in the water. There are millions and trillions of living entities everywhere, and they are engaged by māyā in suffering and enjoying the results of their fruitive activity life after life. This is the position of the materially conditioned living entities. Out of many of these living entities, if one is actually fortunate (bhāgyavān), he comes in contact with a bona fide spiritual master by Kṛṣṇa's mercy. Kṛṣṇa is situated in everyone's heart, and if one desires something, Kṛṣṇa fulfills one's desire. If the living entity by chance or fortune comes in contact with the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement and wishes to associate with that movement, Kṛṣṇa, who is situated in everyone's heart, gives him the chance to meet a bona fide spiritual master. This is called guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāda. Kṛṣṇa is prepared to bestow His mercy upon all living entities, and as soon as a living entity desires the Lord's mercy, the Lord immediately gives him an opportunity to meet a bona fide spiritual master. Such a person is fortified by both Kṛṣṇa and the spiritual master. He is helped from within by Kṛṣṇa and from without by the spiritual master. Both are prepared to help the sincere living being become free from this material bondage. How one can become this fortunate can be seen in the life of Śrīla Nārada Muni. In his previous life he was born of a maidservant. Although he was not born into a prestigious position, his mother was fortunately engaged in rendering service to some Vaiṣṇavas. When these Vaiṣṇavas were resting during the cāturmāsya period, the boy Nārada took the opportunity to engage in their service. Taking compassion upon the boy, the Vaiṣṇavas offered him the remnants of their food. By serving them and obeying their orders, the boy became the object of sympathy for the Vaiṣṇavas, and, by the Vaiṣṇavas' unknown mercy, he gradually became a pure devotee. In the next life he was Nārada Muni, the most exalted of Vaiṣṇavas and the most important guru and ācārya of Vaiṣṇavas. Following in the footsteps of Nārada Muni, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is rendering service to humanity by giving everyone a chance to come in contact with Kṛṣṇa. If one is fortunate, he becomes intimately related with this movement. Then, by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, one's life becomes successful. Everyone has dormant kṛṣṇa-bhakti, love for Kṛṣṇa, and in the association of good devotees, that love is revealed. As stated in Caitanya-caritāmṛta:
Prabhupāda: Ācchā. (laughs)
Bhagavān: They are here now. He had his own business and everything, very successful. His children are in the Gurukula and he is doing saṅkīrtana.
Prabhupāda: His wife also?
Bhagavān: She is the secretary. Very nice.
Prabhupāda: Wherefrom they came?
Bhagavān: South of France.
Prabhupāda: South of France.
Hari-śauri: If we had a big farm in the south it would be very nice. In the south of France the weather is always very good.
Prabhupāda: South of France is near Mediterranean. Marseilles is south?
Bhagavān: Marseilles is right on the Mediterranean. We have very big saṅkīrtana there.
Prabhupāda: Marseilles? Oh.
Bhagavān: Many books distributed.
Prabhupāda: How far it is from...?
Prabhupāda: That was my policy from the very beginning, that if the Americans accept, then my mission will be successful. And that is being done gradually, and I am insisting that, preach in America vigorously. If America accepts, then whole world will accept. That's a fact. Anywhere, although America may be fallen, the ideal is American, everywhere. Because they have got money. Kali-yuga means money. If you have got money, then you have got culture, you have got education, you have got everything. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Formerly, they were attached, family, aristocracy, culture, education. Nowadays there is no such thing. Get money and you get everything. It is not? Somehow or other, if you have got control over money then you have got everything. Bring that black Bhāgavatam. What is that sound coming? There is goat?
Parivrājakācārya: I think a lamb, sheep.
Prabhupāda: Lamb.
Prabhupāda: There are so many examples. There are so many examples. The beginning stage and the perfect stage. Perfect stage, designationless. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, in the beginning api cet su-durācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ: (BG 9.30) even he's not completely a devotee, still, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ. You must accept him as a devotee. Why? Bhajate mām ananya-bhāk. He has taken to the process completely. So there may be some designations always on account of past habit, but because he has taken to the process of becoming designationless, he is sādhu. If he sticks to the principles, kṣipraṁ bhavati dharmātmā śaśvac-chāntiṁ nigacchati, very soon he'll become a perfect devotee and he'll get peace-śaśvac-chānti-kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31). These things are there. So one has to take the line of Kṛṣṇa consciousness seriously, then everything automatically will appear. There is no.... That is called utsāhān dhairyāt, dhairyāt, patience. Niścayād; "I have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness exactly as Kṛṣṇa wants, then I'll surely be perfect." That is niścayād. There is no doubt about it. If I am following the direction of Kṛṣṇa under the guidance of spiritual master, be sure that you'll be successful. There is no question of becoming unsuccessful. Niścayād. But if I am deviating, that is my (indistinct). But if you follow, then you'll be sure to be successful.
Prabhupāda: No, the idea is when you talk of talking, there must be two. So self, then you have to admit the self becomes two, otherwise there is no talking. This is good, that one is Superself, another is subordinate self. So when the subordinate self is able to talk with the Superself, then he gets right direction, his life is very successful.
Ali: Is the Superself a spirit?
Prabhupāda: Yes, when you say self, it is spirit. Spirit, the Supreme Spirit, and the subordinate spirit. The Supreme Being and the subordinate being. That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. You find out this verse:
- sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo
- mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca
- vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyo
- vedānta kṛd veda vid eva cāham
- (BG 15.15)
Hari-śauri: "I am seated in everyone's heart, and from Me come remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness.'
Prabhupāda: The Supreme Being, the Supreme Self, is situated in everyone's heart. That is being explained. Go on.
Prabhupāda: Rascal, working, it is already being done, so what is your credit? We are working. You may work also, but what is your credit? Suppose if you become successful. What is your credit? It is already being done by the chicken. Why should you take the laureate title, Dr. such-and-such. Give it to the chicken. What they can do? Can they produce a seed of this, just like one seed produce so many things? Bījāhaṁ sarva-bhūtānām. Where is your credit? (break) Mines, as soon as it is national, nobody will take. In 1950, twenty-five years, twenty-six years ago, I was in Madras, Gauḍīya Maṭha, and there is a bus stop in front of the temple. So every bus was making some sound, huuuuuung, but when nothing was properly oiled. Machine is going to hell when it is managed by the government. As soon as there is government management, nobody wants. So long there is proprietorship, the proprietor takes care that "My machine will go bad if I don't take care." But who cares for that? That showing that so much oil purchased, who is going to check it? People have become dishonest. On account of godlessness, everyone is dishonest. He's dishonest to himself even. Doesn't take care of the body properly. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. Therefore you cannot expect good qualities of the human society without injecting God consciousness. (break) ...in the mass of people amongst themselves. Do they fight very much amongst themselves?
Prabhupāda: Eh? No difficulty. If you chant Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, where is the difficulty? That is mana-manā. Apply your mind to Kṛṣṇa. Where is the difficulty? The difficulty is that we'll not do it. That is our determination. We shall do everything, but not this. That is the difficulty. Otherwise, there is no difficulty. Everyone will teach about Bhagavad-gītā, so many things they will speak, but nobody speaks that you surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Rather, they will say Kṛṣṇa is fictitious, there was no Kṛṣṇa, there was no... They mislead, that's all. And he becomes a big scholar. The more he deviates you, misguides you, he become a big scholar. This is going on. Is it not? There are so many scholars, politicians, philosophers, they are talking of Bhagavad-gītā. Nobody is talking that Kṛṣṇa, surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Am I right or wrong? They'll say "We have got different meaning of Kṛṣṇa" All the sages, all the saintly persons, they have accepted Kṛṣṇa. Just like Arjuna, when he understood Bhagavad-gītā, he immediately accepted Kṛṣṇa: paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān (BG 10.12). This is understanding of Kṛṣṇa. Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yan māṁ vadasi keśava (BG 10.14). "Keśava, whatever You have spoken, I take it altogether as it is." Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye (BG 10.14). All fact. And they are manufacturing some meaning. How they'll understand Kṛṣṇa? This is going on. And our, this movement has become little successful.... People give me such credit, "Swamiji, you have done wonderful."
Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes. That is devotee. Because God wants it that these rascals may be turned into sane man. That is God's plan. Otherwise why does He comes? Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata (BG 4.7). Huh? Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8)—two class, sādhu and duṣkṛtinaḥ. So to punish these duṣkṛtinaḥ there is reformation. That is not God's enemy, reformation. As the father gives slap to rogue child, that is also kindness. So these two processes are going on, paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām. Dharma-saṁsthāpanārthāya. Then what is that dharma? Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). That is dharma. So to deal with the asuras is not so easy job, but we have to do that. You should not be discouraged. So asuras may be reformed or not be reformed, but because you are trying this job on behalf of Kṛṣṇa, He will recognize you. Your service will be recognized. Not that you attempted, therefore you must be successful. You may be unsuccessful. It does not matter. But you have tried your best, and that will be recognized. (pause) And these asuras are trying to become happy by material advancement of knowledge. They're not happy-struggling—but this is called will-o'-the-wisp, phantasmagoria. Actually, they are not happy, they cannot be happy, but they are trying. How they can be happy? Nature is there.
Prabhupāda: Who made sandeśa? It was very nice.
Hari-śauri: Nava-yauvana's wife, Mañjarī.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, she can make sandeśa. And some of these products also can be stocked there. Once we start and it is successful, then we can grow.
Prabhupāda: He knows how to make kacuri.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: You like him to stay here, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: No, I don't say, but he can give you instruction.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: So if you will give us the formulas, we can learn from him the formulas for toothpaste?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: For toothpaste and what else?
Prabhupāda: You remember it?
Harikeśa: Hm...
Ātreya Ṛṣi: No, exactly?
Prabhupāda: But toothpaste, you require collapsible tube.
Prabhupāda: Our Ratha-yātrā in New York was very successful.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, I saw in the New York Times. I went to the American Embassy in Delhi and I saw "East Meets West" that was the heading, and there were picture, and Daily News had it on the first page.
Hari-śauri: Middle page.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: First page.
Hari-śauri: Center pages.
Prabhupāda: Three chariots, very gorgeous.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's due to your causeless mercy this is spreading everywhere. There were hundreds of orders from libraries. Actually we cannot even keep up, there are so many orders coming. Every order has been dispatched, Śrīla Prabhupāda. There's not one order outstanding, but we are getting lot of correspondence, everything. And I spoke to Rāmeśvara two nights ago, he's shipping the books right away. Because we only got the sea. By Kṛṣṇa's grace, first our application for import of books was rejected. Then I went and met this very big man and preached to him. So now he's become a devotee and he said, "You just come to me. I'll give you in one day whatever you want."
Prabhupāda: Jaya. Take prasāda and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, that's all. And we have now nice buildings. Live there peacefully, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Bas. This is my success. If I see that you are living very nicely, chanting very nicely, then all my labor is successful.
Hari-śauri: Hare Kṛṣṇa. So if all the devotees would like to leave now, then Prabhupāda can rest a little bit from traveling.
Harikeśa: You can distribute prasāda in the hall.
Prabhupāda: Oh, you are older than me.
Older man: Your blessings.
Prabhupāda: Live peacefully, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. It is for you, so many buildings. Let devotees come, live here peacefully, and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, that's all. That I want.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a lot of devotees visiting Bombay.
Prabhupāda: How many you are housing?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: On a permanent basis about forty, but there are a few from different centers.
Prabhupāda: Where you have received this?
Kartikeya Mahadevia: San Diego near Los Angeles.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And all of them are successful. This time I installed Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma Deity in France.
Kartikeya Mahadevia: Paris, near Paris.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Near Orleans.
Kartikeya Mahadevia: I am thinking of going again on a world tour for my business, because we want to start some export business. So I'll start with Iran, then some other countries in Middle East, then Europe, America, Australia, New Zealand, Fiji, Mauritius, and Seychelles. I've got friends all over the places, so they will come here, and we have some export business, cloth...
Prabhupāda: Mauritius is not developed. Fiji is good. Mauritius a poor country. Fiji well-to-do, more business, many Gujaratis. Mostly Gujaratis.
Kartikeya Mahadevia: I've got somebody in New Zealand also. They are...
Prabhupāda: Fiji and New Zealand...
Kartikeya Mahadevia: Are very prosperous.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They have got good dealings, purchase and sell.
Prabhupāda: You can bring so many men and keep everyone in charge of such places, and it will develop. Money, there is no scarcity. But the difficulty is as soon as we establish, the immigration, "You go away." This is... What is this? You say the MLA and this Tarun Kanti." This is our difficulty. Otherwise there is no difficulty. We can take all the charge and develop them very nicely." So if one man is kept in charge, and after few months he's advised, "Go away," then all his training goes to hell and we have to spend another ten thousand rupees. This is the difficulty. What... We are not... Not a single case there is that we have taken any part in politics. So give us some facility. We can take charge of everything. Tell them that actually that is fact, that there is no scarcity of money. We can bring money from America and develop. There is no difficulty at all. The difficulty is the immigration department. You can say that "Prabhupāda has put this philosophy, andha..." What is that? Paṅgu. Andha-paṅgu-nyāya. Blind and... Depends on this... Blind and... I think you have already know. Blind man, lame man. One man is blind, another man is lame. Both of them are useless. But when they combine, the blind man takes the lame man on his shoulder, and the lame man gives direction to the blind man, "Go this way. Go this way." So he walks. So both of them are benefited. So America has got money but blind. And India has got culture but lame. So let us combine. Then things will be done very nice. Andha-paṅgu-nyāya. Just like I am the same man. I was finding difficulty to start this mission in India, very, very difficult. With great hardship I published three books. But as soon as I went America, the andha-paṅgu-nyāya became successful. So this is the the position. So instead of becoming envious from political... We have nothing to do with... To the Americans unnecessarily thinking that "CIA, CIA..."
Prabhupāda: This combination of rich men, poor men, for Kṛṣṇa. The same—andha-paṅgu-nyāya. Both of them are useless separately, and when they combine in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are all useful. It is very good example. And there is another example, that a piece of wire is falling, rotting, and a piece of bamboo, rotting, and a piece of squash skin is rotting. And one gentleman collected. He nicely trimmed the piece and dried the squash, the outer portion, and took the bamboo and nicely cut it and joined the string and this became a sitar: "Ting, ting, ting." So it is the intelligent person who joins all these things and makes it very useful. These are the examples. The bamboo alone is useless, and a small piece of wire, useless, and a thrown out squash skin, useless. But if you can join them together,...you can "Ting, ting." Similarly andha-paṅgu-nyāya. Here is a lame man; here is a blind man. All right, combine together and use them. That is wanted. Svakarmaṇā tam abhyarcya saṁsiddhi labhate. This wire does not change. It is wire. But when it is combined, it is useful. So our propaganda is, "They are separately planning useless. Let them combine together in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. All this planning shall be successful.
Jayapatākā: We were all useless in the West, but you have come and then engaged us.
Prabhupāda: Yes, then do that. And we are inviting everyone. We have no distinction. Anyone can come to the park. Convince them. (continued on another tape) "Come on! Take prasādam "sumptuously." They'll be satisfied. They are hungry. Actually they are hungry, poorly paid, capitalist and worker. The trouble is, capitalists, they are taking all the profit, and they are enjoying life in wine and women. Naturally the worker will see that "Why? We are working so hard, and they are making profit, and they are enjoying, and we do not live in a very nice house. It is a slum." Naturally they will be envious. If the capitalists spend the money for Kṛṣṇa consciousness—in each and every factory they hold festivals and give them eatables like anything everything will be successful.
Gargamuni: We tell them that "If you give your Kṛṣṇa tax, this will save you from the income tax.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Gargamuni: Because they are raiding...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Gargamuni: "...because you are hoarding. But if you give..."
Prabhupāda: The industrialists... That is also one of our programs. Let them hold festivals every Sunday, as we hold. And we shall go and have kīrtana and sumptuous feeding give. They'll be very satisfied. And instead of giving the income tax, let them spend in this way. Convince them.
Prabhupāda: But generally, generally, that Caitanya Mahāprabhu's process should be taken. As Caitanya Mahāprabhu represented Himself that "I am fool." He is not fool. He's representing the fools of this age. So if we take that process, it will be successful. It will be successful.
Commissioner: That also, (indistinct) that bhajana and every.
Prabhupāda: Yes, let them come. Let them come in the temple and there may be sumptuously offering of bhoga. Let them chant and take prasāda. In this chanting illiterate, literate, rascal, fool, lower, higher, everyone can join. And give them prasāda. See the effect.
Commissioner: Yes. That is also part of the, that is the other part of it. We are having dhana-prasthānam,(?) bhajana group, hari-kathā group...
Prabhupāda: Anything. It must be sanctioned by the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. Then it will be successful.
Commissioner: For success the people, the local language, so that they may...
Prabhupāda: Language difficulty is there. That we have to solve.
Commissioner: Therefore training has to be done here and in other places, and a center has to be there. You could plan one of those with...
Prabhupāda: Yes, plan is there. Just like we are doing. And we can give you in detail. Provided you accept this principle that we shall abide by the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā.
Commissioner: Who questions the Gītā and the Upaniṣads?
Prabhupāda: It is very difficult. Very difficult. You see. Big, big scholars, big, big politicians, they are supposed to be preaching Bhagavad-gītā. They take their photograph in front of Bhagavad-gītā, but without Kṛṣṇa. They'll never talk of Kṛṣṇa any time. Banish Kṛṣṇa. Even Gandhi has said, "My imagination of Kṛṣṇa is different." Perhaps you have read in his Gītā-Press edition.(?) Kṛṣṇa is speaking... Radhakrishnan said when Kṛṣṇa says man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ, he says "It is not to the Kṛṣṇa person."
Prabhupāda: Yes. (pause) Our farming projects, very successful. Now here Badrukaji is also giving us some land. (indistinct)
Hari-śauri: Vāsughoṣa.
Prabhupāda: So we have got big program. Any amount of money you bring to us, we shall spend it immediately. (pause) (kīrtana in background) (break) There is a logic, andha-paṅgu-nyāya. One man is blind. Another man is lame. Both are useless. When they combined together the lame man was taken by the blind man. So the lame man has got eyes, he was giving direction, "Go this way." So both their work was done. So I say that India is lame and America is blind. Let us combine together. Then we can give a great culture for the benefit of the whole human society. India has no money-lame. And they have got money but they have no knowledge. So let us combine together. This is logic. Andha-paṅgu-nyāya. So by this cooperation they have... When I was in India I published three parts of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam with great difficulty. And now since I have gone there I am publishing every month a book. So on account of their cooperation we are able to publish so many books and organize the sale all over the world. But it is true that this culture is very much welcome all over the world. That is happening. That is real execution of the mission of Kṛṣṇa. Not to keep Kṛṣṇa within the boundaries of certain areas. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā. Sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4).
Prabhupāda: No, I can, (Hindi) (break) (Unless) one is enthused, he cannot preach. It is not possible. I went there when I was seventy years old. I was sitting in Vṛndāvana. So I thought that my Guru Mahārāja wanted me, Caitanya Mahāprabhu wanted me... So in this old age let me try. (indistinct). But by Kṛṣṇa's grace it is becoming successful. Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānāṁ bhajatāṁ prīti-pūrvakam, dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ tam (BG 10.10). So there is good field for propagating this cult. See our young men they are... (Hindi) Juhu mai beef(?) shop (Hindi) And I inquired some of the Hindu boys that "Do you eat meat?" So they began to smile, then they accepted. (Hindi) (break) ...platform is finished. (Hindi) Yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63). Yathecchasi, yathā icchasi tathā kuru.
Minister: No, we are agreed (?) to that. There is actually no difference at all than what you are saying. As a matter of fact government is..., that's what I said, they have started their own society, society of Kṛṣṇa bhaktas. (indistinct) This country, our country, this country itself, it is such a great service.
Prabhupāda: Whole world will accept.
Minister: This country itself is such a great service. It will require miracles.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) We can cooperate.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's bhakti-nitya-siddha is already there. Otherwise it was not possible to become so successful in the foreign countries. They are not fools, accepting something bogus.
Harikeśa: Kṛṣṇa consciousness has succeeded amongst all kinds of religions. It's succeeded amongst all kinds of religions, amongst all kinds of nations.
Prabhupāda: Everything.
Harikeśa: All kinds of economic systems.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7)."There is nothing greater than Me." How anything can exceed Kṛṣṇa? You present Kṛṣṇa right, then Kṛṣṇa will exceed anything. Any department of knowledge, any department of activity. Anything. Supreme, Parataram. Para-taram. Tara is used—superlative. If our men become serious to distribute... Of course it is not possible that the whole world will be Kṛṣṇa conscious, but at least they will know that there is such a thing. I may know at least there is diamond. I may not be able to purchase. That everyone can know. There is a very valuable jewel. Even though he has not seen it, still he'll appreciate that there is a very valuable jewel known as diamond. That much will also help. When he has got money he can purchase it. (break) Because gentleman will come you have to break this wall. What is this nonsense?
Prabhupāda: Mirage. There is no water. It appears there is water, and the animal goes forward and it goes forward, it goes forward. So this material world is like that. Ask anybody, any so-called successful. Unless he's an ass, nobody will say that this is very comfortable. So best thing is to become niṣkiñcana. Niṣkiñcanasya bhāgavata-bhajana... This is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction. Bhāgavata-bhajana means niṣkiñcana. You make nothing this material world. That is real Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And so long I'll make this material world something, then I'll suffer. Best thing is make it... Just like Draupadī. Draupadī, when she was grabbed in the assembly and Duryodhana and Karṇa wanted to make her naked. So generally woman, if you try to make her naked she'll try to save herself. So she was trying to save herself and when she thought, "There is no way. My husbands are here. They are not helping, and..." So cloth is being supplied by Kṛṣṇa, but how long I shall? No, before Kṛṣṇa helping, she was trying to help herself. But when she found that it is not possible, then she did not try to save the cloth. She said, "Kṛṣṇa, save me!" Two arms. You have seen the picture. And then Kṛṣṇa supplied cloth. So it is, "Go on, yes, Duḥśāsana, you go on. You try to make her naked. I'll supply." So this is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction, that one should, if one is serious about bhagavad-bhajana, he should take it, whole material world, as nothing.
Prabhupāda: Last year we introduced Ratha-yātrā in Philadelphia. It was very successful. And this year we have introduced in New York. It is also very successful. Everyone, government official, police, public, all enjoyed. And the Fifth Avenue is the most important avenue in the world, Fifth Avenue. So our procession was how many miles?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: From Washington Square Park... How many miles? At least four or five miles.
Pradyumna: Central Park to Washington Square Park. All the way. Full length of the Avenue. Complete. From one end to the other.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The government had sealed it off.
Indian man: What is the effect on Russians, this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement.
Prabhupāda: Here the Russians are afraid of this movement. They are very much afraid. And therefore they are greatest enemy in India. CPI. They are putting so many impediments.
Indian man: (Hindi) China?
Prabhupāda: So give them chance to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and give them chance to taste prasāda. They'll be... That's all. Jihvādau. Utilize the tongue, primarily. And gradually everything will be...
- ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇaṁ
- śreyaḥ-kairava-candrikā-vitaraṇaṁ vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam
- ānandāmbudhi-vardhanaṁ prati-padaṁ pūrṇāmṛtāsvādanaṁ
- sarvātma-snapanaṁ paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam
- (CC Antya 20.12)
So chant as much possible and eat prasādam. No education required, no philosophy required. But follow the Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction and become guru.
- āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa
- yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa
- (CC Madhya 7.128)
If they have got little brain, then kṛṣṇa-upadeśa. Otherwise, Hare Kṛṣṇa upadeśa, that's all. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Very simple. The preacher does not require to be very highly educated. If he follows simply Caitanya Mahāprabhu's instruction, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128), then he's successful. No ostādi. That is not...
Prabhupāda: Āra saba bhṛtya. God is one and all others, they are subjects. Nityo nityānām. Why these two words are used, nityānām. Everyone is nitya, but He's the supreme nitya. Cetanaś cetanānām. He's not dead body, dead matter. Cetana. Nityam, just as the Himalaya parvata is standing forever. No. Cetana. Living. So how He can be imperson? Himalaya parvata may be very big, the sky may be big, but it is not cetana. Therefore this word is used. Cetana, living. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). What is the difference? Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. That one nitya is providing, maintaining all other nityas. That is God. God is great. That is the meaning. So anyway, make your effort sincerely. The basic principle is this. Induce them to chant and take prasāda. You'll be successful. Not very much ostādi. (Hindi)
Lokanātha: So we'll write to you, (indistinct) books.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Go to village to village. It is very noble attempt. And if you sincerely preach Kṛṣṇa will... buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi taṁ yena mām upayānti te. There is no doubt.
Indian man: (Sanskrit verse)
Lokanātha: He joined us four days back. He's from Maharastra. I'm taking him with me.
Prabhupāda: He understands the philosophy. Wherefrom it is quoted?
Prabhupāda: That is sufficient. First of all, you understand few lines of Bhagavad-gītā; then jump over other. About this only, one line, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13), if you simply understand this one line, your life will be successful.
Indian man (3): Kindly explain this line.
Prabhupāda: This line, it is clear, that you have to change this body. Have you got any objection to take it?
Indian man (4): No.
Prabhupāda: Then why you are not serious, "What kind of body I am going to get?" Here is a body, tree. If you are going to accept a body like this, just how miserable it will be. Why you are not afraid? Just like if you want to go from here, Chandigarh, to Delhi, you have to arrange so many things. So what we are doing, that we have to change this body? And there are 8,400,000 different types of bodies. Which body I am going to get? Why we are not serious? We are spoiling our life.
Prabhupāda: He is the founder of Gauḍīya Math. He advised me to take up this movement when I was twenty-five years old, young man. But at that time I thought that "I am a married man; let me wait." So waiting, waiting. When I retired at the... I was born in 1896. So I retired in 1954. That means I retired at the age of fifty-eight years. At fifty-eight years. Then I remained as a vānaprastha in Vṛndāvana up to seventieth year of my age. Then I thought that "Guru Mahārāja asked me to do this at the age of, when I was twenty-five years old. I could not do it. So let me try." So by his grace and Kṛṣṇa's grace, it became little successful. That's all. In 1965 I went to New York without any help. But gradually, in 1966 I registered this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement in New York. And then gradually, it spread whole America, Europe, Australia, Canada. Like that.
Interviewer: What is the reason of the success of your mission in the foreign countries?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is very intelligent question. We are after material civilization, and they are fed up with material civilization. That is the position. We are now trying to imitate them, a skyscraper building, but they are disgusted with skyscraper building. These boys, they are coming from very respectable family, rich family, and especially in America there is no question of poor man. There is no question of poor man. But still, they do not like the materialistic way of life of their father and grandfathers.
Prabhupāda: Well, initiation or no initiation, first thing is knowledge. (break) ...knowledge. Initiation is formality. Just like you go to a school for knowledge, and admission is formality. That is not very important thing. (sound coming on and off, tape recorder faulty.) So our this movement is successful... On account of this movement... (break) ...learned scholars and those who are inquisitive, advanced... (break)... He Maharishi Mahesh Yogi says that this is material. If you perform this meditation, transcendental meditation, you will be materially benefited. That is not spiritual meditation.
Interviewer: You have said that India should take this movement seriously.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Interviewer: How do you want India to take this movement?
Prabhupāda: Seriously means that a spiritual movement is India's movement. So if some of our leading men take seriously, then whatever I am doing single-handed... I don't get any support either from the Indian public or from the government. But if they take it seriously, then we can present in more organized way and it will be more successful. So far it is done single-handed.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: If we work sincerely then we'll come out successful.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: So there are a few things...
Prabhupāda: We should not be afraid. Yuddhyasva mām anusmara (BG 8.7). Kṛṣṇa advised Arjuna that you fight, not that you shall not fight. We shall fight to the best of our... And this is good, they are feeling the pressure of this movement. Otherwise why they are going to take step?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But they, these parents what they want to do, they want this to be declared illegal. Now they...
Prabhupāda: They can, the children can also, those who are our children they can form an association.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: But they cannot control us, our independence.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: They should form. How the...?
Prabhupāda: Then whole civilization finished. Even theoretically taken, no smoking, no gambling, no intoxication, no illicit sex, their whole civilization is finished. Lord Zetland said... Not only that, one Sir Valentine Chiro (?), I think, Sir Valentine Chiro, British, important, when Gandhi started non-cooperation. So he remarked that "If Gandhi's movement, this non-cooperation movement is one percent successful, then we will have to leave it." And actually that happened. Because they were ruling over India by Indian cooperation. Gandhi struck to the right point, non-cooperation, and he scented the danger, and he remarked at that time, that if one percent of the Indian people non-cooperate then we are, our British empire finished. So there are intelligent persons, they are thinking in their own way that this movement is so strong against this modern material civilization, if it is allowed to spread then our whole civilization, whole economic structure will be finished.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: What they're doing now, these parents are getting in contact with devotees who have blooped, and they're getting these devotees to make statements against us.
Prabhupāda: Just see. They are living peacefully in a villa in Paris so happily that ah... Some, one gentleman came to see me "Swamiji, you are preaching against meat-eating, this cannot be done in this country, then we will starve." I said "No, you will never starve. You take this formula." (laughs) So they are thinking like that.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That is why these leaders are getting confused, so many bogus people are there.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That should, action should be there. If we come out successful in this, how you say, messing, and that will be very good. It is called that, messing?
Hari-śauri: Mixing.
Haṁsadūta: Mixing.
Prabhupāda: Not mixing.
Hari-śauri: (indistinct) together.
Prabhupāda: Messing, that what is called? Chaduni? What is called?
Hari-śauri: Sifting?
Prabhupāda: Sifting, yes. (coughing) It is called not messing also? Hm. Sifting high grains from the small.
Devotees: Yes. Hm. Hm.
Prabhupāda: The smaller grains they fall down.
Haṁsadūta: Straining.
Prabhupāda: You have to fight. Keeping our principles strictly. Yuddhyasva mām anusmara (BG 8.7). We should not be afraid to fight. And it is, there are Indians... It is not the Indians (indistinct). Now Indians and Americans should join for fighting on behalf of Kṛṣṇa. Then it will be successful. How they can say it is not genuine movement. Other so-called yogis swamis, they may be rascal but this is not the rascaldom. It is...
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They are saying, they are saying we are not Hindus.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They are saying this is not Hinduism.
Prabhupāda: Hindus, we are Kṛṣṇian. It they, if...
Haṁsadūta: Kṛṣṇans.
Prabhupāda: The millions of liquor manufacturers, breweries, millions of gambling houses, so, cigarette factories, so theoretically if this movement is successful then whole civilization is finished. So they are now looking... Because these young men have taken seriously so they are threatened and they are making a strong party to fight with us. They cannot safely say that (indistinct) this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement they are (indistinct) a charge against my movement or me that I am kidnapping young men. That is their (indistinct). I am not kidnapping, I am not going to their house to kidnap. They are coming to us. (Hindi)
- kṛṣṇot-kīrtana-gāna-nartana-parau premāmṛtāmbho-nidhī
- dhīrādhīra-jana-priyau priya-karau nirmatsarau pūjitau
- śrī-caitanya-kṛpā-bharau...
The gosvāmīs, they are śrī-caitanya-kṛpā-bharau. Now prove! They are descendants, now prove: come forward. Śrī-caitanya-kṛpā-bharau. Simply sitting at home. And in Bengal there is Nityānanda-vaṁśa. What is Nityānanda-vaṁśa? Nityānanda went forward before Jagāi-Mādhāi and He was hurt. Blood came out. Where is that Nityānanda-vaṁśa? Fight between Jagāi-Mādhāi and Nityānanda. That is Nityānanda-vaṁśa, simply taking advantage of coming from Nityānanda-vaṁśa, "I have become guru, give me your money," and sit down. "Let me enjoy life with my wife and children." That kind of Nityānanda-vaṁśa will not help. Come forward to fight. This fighting is now here.
Prabhupāda: According to the infection of the different modes of material nature, we are creating good or bad body next life. The laws of nature is unknown to the foolish society. They are thinking, "This life is everything. Misled, they do not know the aim of life. That is going on. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). One blind leader is leading other blind men. This is going on. And when we present the real solution, they say it is brainwash. Now against our movement there is propaganda in USA, charging that "He has brainwashed them." (aside:) You can come here. (Hindi) "It is folly to be wise where ignorance is bliss." This is our position. When we speak all these things, they say it is brainwashing movement. Actually it is brainwashing movement because we are dissipating all kinds of misunderstanding, values of life. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). It is not brainwashing; it is heart-washing. Our heart is stacked with so many dirty things, so we are trying to wash it. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. And that is our movement. We are trying to cleanse the heart so that he can understand himself. One can understand his real position and then do the needful and life becomes successful.
Prabhupāda: This is the process of knowledge. Amānitvam adambhitvam ahiṁsā kṣāntir ārjavam ācāryopāsanam. Ācāryaṁ māṁ vijānīyāt (SB 11.17.27). If you go to ācārya, then you'll know the knowledge. What is this, go to a magician, a rascal? Magician is authority? There are so many magicians. So one should go for God to a magician? Ācāryopāsanam. Go to ācārya. That is recommended. Why should you go to the magician? That is your fault. You go to the wrong person, and you are cheated because you want to be cheated. You want to see magic; you don't want to see God. God is personally speaking, accepted God, not that by magical... And who can show greater magic than Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa, when He was seven years old, He lifted the Govardhana Hill. Can this rascal do that? Who can be greater magician than Kṛṣṇa? So we shall go to the greatest magician. Why shall I go to a tiny magician? That is our misfortune. If you want to see magic, see the magic, what Kṛṣṇa has done. This is our misfortune, that we go to a wrong person and misled. If you want magician, see Kṛṣṇa, how great magician He is. He married sixteen thousand wives. Is there any instance in the history of the world that one has sixteen thousand wives and maintaining each of them? And he expanded himself in sixteen thousand husbands. Not that one wife is waiting: "When sixteen thousand, after sixteen thousand nights, He would come here?" No. He is present everywhere. That is magic. Nārada was surprised that "How Kṛṣṇa is maintaining sixteen thousand wives?" He saw in each and every home sixteen thousand establishment and Kṛṣṇa is present everywhere. So this is magic. Why don't you see Kṛṣṇa's magic? Why you are so much allured by a tiny magician? That is your misfortune. Poor heart, poor magic. See the real magic. If you want to see magic, see the Kṛṣṇa's magic. Kṛṣṇa, when He was three months old, the Pūtanā came to kill the child by poisoning but she was killed. So in this way, from the very beginning of Kṛṣṇa's appearance, He's killing so many demons. So why don't you see this magic? If you want to see magic, see Kṛṣṇa's magic. Why the poor magic? Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-loka-maheśvaram: (BG 5.29) "I am the proprietor of all the lokas." And each loka... Suppose this loka, earthly planet. There are hundreds of gold mines. Why you are captivated with the chaṭāka gold? Why don't you be captivated by the person who has millions of gold mines by His wish? So we are poor; therefore we are captivated by poor magician. If we are intelligent, then we should be captivated by Kṛṣṇa's magic. That is intelligence. But we are poor; we are captivated by poor magic. That's all. Don't be poor. Mūḍho nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Don't remain mūḍhas. Try to understand Kṛṣṇa. Then your life will be successful.
Prabhupāda: But attract them. They will come here to eat, "Oh, very nice thing." That is wanted. I made this movement successful simply by love feast. They did not come to hear Hare Kṛṣṇa. They came for love feast. From very beginning, when I was in 26 2nd Avenue, every Sunday I was giving nice foodstuff, at least 200 men. Daily at least more than 15, 20. I was cooking myself. That is the beginning of my movement. The cāpāṭis with Kīrtanānanda, first of all he was taking one and two, then twelve. (laughter) There was another boy...
Devotee: Stryādhīśa.
Prabhupāda: Stryādhīśa. Twenty-two cāpāṭis. (laughter) "Stryādhīśa, can I give you?" "Yes." I gave him four. Finished. "Stryādhīśa, can I give you?" "Yes." (laughter) Very nice boy. He was eating twenty-two. One day there was no money, so he immediately went and came after some time with some money. "And where did you go?" The shoe booth. He polished shoes and brought some money. (laughter) In this way, this was developed. Give them prasādam, nice prasādam. Any gentleman comes, immediately there must be some prasādam. Engage first class cook. Spend money, don't be a miserly. If you have no money, I will pay.
Prabhupāda: The home attachment is so great. These Delhi passengers, they are coming, hanging, and there are so many accidents daily. And few hours he will live with wife. That is his home. And whole other, out of twenty-four hours, seventeen hours are outside, and maybe seven hours at home. But still, he'll come home. The home attachment is very big. Therefore we have to create attachment for this hari-saṅkīrtana. If you create that attachment, then they will give up home attachment, try life, to live here. Athāsaktiḥ. You have to train them in Kṛṣṇa consciousness in such a way. Then
- ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-
- saṅgo 'tha bhajana-kriyā
- tato 'nartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt
- tato niṣṭhā rucis tataḥ
- (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15)
Āsakti. Then they will be attached here. Spiritually if you enlighten them, then they'll be attached. They'll voluntarily say they are accepting here. The chanting, chanting, then... This is the beginning, that "You chant and take prasādam." Then ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). Gradually the heart will be cleansed, and gradually they will be elevated to the platform of āsakti. Then they will not want money, they will not want... Then they will live here, work, just you are doing. That stage, that requires little advancement. Therefore I say this kīrtana program must be continued. Then ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam. As you make the heart cleansed, they become more and more advanced. And then this stage of āsakti, that "This is... We shall live here." Just like we have given up our hearth and home and wife and children. We have given up that attachment. This attachment, practical... That is... You cannot expect immediately. That is not possible. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59). When one gets better attachment, then they can give up this nasty attachment. Therefore we have to continue this saṅkīrtana. This is the psychology. But there is very great prospect to develop this place, and you have got experience. If you can develop, it will be very nice example. Once successful here, we can introduce this program. And India will be easier because they are by nature inclined to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It will be easier. The kīrtana must be there. Otherwise why we have to take so much responsibility?
Prabhupāda: That's all right. So if you can make one thousand person interested, then you'll be successful. So you can engage some worker for cutting the rocks.
Mahāṁśa: Yes. Tomorrow I am arranging.
Tejas: In this Dublipur(?) there's some very good workers. I saw in the village. They have so many places where there are rocks stacked up. And they have many craftsmen in that Dublipur. That's the main village in this area. They have them there, just near...
Prabhupāda: This house, the blocks are prepared, you make huts and engage some men to make that tile.
Mahāṁśa: Tiles. Round tiles.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jagadīśa: The roof tiles.
Mahāṁśa: Yes, just like the ones which are...
Prabhupāda: Then locally you get everything. You haven't have to got to get from outside. Eh?
Prabhupāda: No, in America. We have got farms like this. They are very successful. They are eating fresh vegetables, fresh grains and milk, and chanting. The temple is there. They have left the city life. So I want to organize that here also. We have already one in Navadvīpa. The devotees are there. They are having their own cloth, own food, own milk, residence, and chanting. That's all.
Guest (3): Total membership for around the world?
Prabhupāda: Total membership is practically unlimited because we are now getting opposition, so... But actually dedicated life, about ten thousand like these boys.
Guest (5): What's going to be the name of this āśrama?
Prabhupāda: It is already told. It is ISKCON Venkateshvara Trust.
Guest (5): The name of the trust will be the name of the āśrama.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hari-śauri: New Naimiṣāraṇya?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prabhupāda: No, in America. We have got farms like this. They are very successful. They are eating fresh vegetables, fresh grains and milk, and chanting. The temple is there. They have left the city life. So I want to organize that here also. We have already one in Navadvīpa. The devotees are there. They are having their own cloth, own food, own milk, residence, and chanting. That's all.
Guest (3): Total membership for around the world?
Prabhupāda: Total membership is practically unlimited because we are now getting opposition, so... But actually dedicated life, about ten thousand like these boys.
Guest (5): What's going to be the name of this āśrama?
Prabhupāda: It is already told. It is ISKCON Venkateshvara Trust.
Guest (5): The name of the trust will be the name of the āśrama.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hari-śauri: New Naimiṣāraṇya?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prabhupāda: "...opposition." Therefore he went out and organized the INA, and that was successful. It is not Gandhi's noncooperation movement.
Guest (1): That's true. Now in the British official records which they are publishing their secret papers of twenty-five years, that knowledge is very clearly that it was this armed fight of Indian National Army which convinced the British that they could not rule India with the Indian soldiers.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is real noncooperation. (laughter) What this public noncooperation will do. They are simply clerks. Some of them may be high-court judges, but no responsible post was given.
Guest (1): And all these atrocities were committed by Indians upon Indians at the orders of the British.
Prabhupāda: All the big, big secretaries, under-secretaries, governors... There was no minister, all European, only some clerks. So what is the use of clerks' noncooperation? They didn't care. And in order to pat Gandhi, the governor sometimes used to invite him. "Sir, you are so powerful. Kindly stop this movement." And Gandhi became puffed-up that the Britishers are very afraid of him. "No! I shall do." And Subash Bose insisting, "In this way, they'll never go by this nonviolent."
Mr. Tombe: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then things will be perfect. India, if the whole world can be saved from this chaotic position, India can do. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. But that India leaders first of all make his life perfect. Then it will be all right. Just like our... Of course, I'm not proud, but I am alone. I started this movement alone, without any help. But because I am giving them the perfect information, whole world is taking it. Otherwise, from practical point of view, one man without any help, within ten years he cannot do like this. That's a fact. But I have no difficulty because I am following the Supreme Leader, Kṛṣṇa. People may say that I've done wonderful, but there is nothing magic. Because I am following Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Leader, so far it has become successful. So everyone can do that. Where is the difficulty? Evaṁ paramparā-prāptam (BG 4.2). If we follow the paramparā system it is not difficult.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: These are all of Prabhupāda's books. Eighty books.
Prabhupāda: Eighty-four books we have, I have written within ten years. And our publication house, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the first in the world for publishing religious and philosophical books. We are selling not less than six lakhs worth books daily.
Prabhupāda: Then be beaten with shoes. When you're successful, then say. Otherwise, I shall beat you with shoes. That's all. That is your punishment. You have not come to the experimental stage, and you are talking, "This is science." Science is experiment and observation. Unless the experiment is practical, practical science... It will be accepted as science when the experiment is successful. Not before that. That is scientific method. First of all, observe. It may be happening like this. But that "maybe" should be confirmed by experiment. Then it is science. Even in colleges there is practical examination. Theoretical and practical. So unless... "We are trying." Everyone will say, "I am trying." "I am trying to become millionaire." When you become millionaire, then say that you are millionaire. You are trying for becoming millionaire and you say, "I am millionaire." What is this nonsense? Huh?
Devotee (1): Yes. No one has ever observed the life coming from matter.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just prove that life comes from chemicals. How is that? "I am trying to be millionaire, therefore I am millionaire." What is this nonsense? You are trying to create from chemicals. Therefore you are scientist. What's this kind of scientist? Beat them with shoes. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Refusal, let them refuse, and who cares for them?
Guru dāsa: Actually, if they were successful in any experiment they would be out of a job. So they actually want material life, scientists.
Prabhupāda: And now what is their science? This is science that "We are trying." What is this nonsense science? Do you think this is science? "We are trying." Everyone can say, "I'm trying." Is that science? Then? Any rascal can say that "I am trying." Is that science?
Amogha-līlā: I heard that you had quoted a saying that anyone who goes to Laṅkā becomes a Rāvaṇa, and that similarly, when the devotees come to India, they become Rāvaṇa. I wonder if you would explain that or elaborate or explain how we can avoid this sort of thing happening. (break)
Prabhupāda: Ask the leaders! I was talking that in all our other branches, our men manage the cooking and kitchen and as soon as they come here, they become varalasai. (?) That is Rāvaṇa. Why do they not do here? We have to keep some cook who is neither initiated, nor very clean, a smoker, and we have to keep them. (break) In all other branches, the boys and girls, they manage everything. (break)
Amogha-līlā: ...follow the regulations more strictly?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says... You are taking Bhagavad-gītā, the leader is taking Bhagavad-gītā, and he's speaking nonsense. So we are human beings, we should know what Kṛṣṇa says. Kṛṣṇa says, evaṁ paramparā prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). The paramparā, whether he's speaking paramparā or he's speaking whimsically. That much sense we must have. Otherwise, I am the same sheep. Then why you are speaking which is not in the paramparā? at least, you should be... Now this movement is started, because on this principle, That why these rascals are speaking not in the paramparā? That is my seed of starting this movement. I must start the movement. That is the impetus of this movement, that they must speak according to the paramparā. And someone allowed them to speak otherwise. Therefore I wrote this book, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Don't make interpretations. And by the grace of Kṛṣṇa it has become to some extent successful. That is the impetus. Why they should talk nonsense? It is clear that evaṁ paramparā prāptam (BG 4.2). Paramparā means... That is also explained.
- imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ
- proktavān aham avyayam
- vivasvān manave prāha
- manur ikṣvākave 'bravīt
- (BG 4.1)
So if that paramparā is lost, now you take the next paramparā. As Kṛṣṇa says, and speak that purātana-yoga. Find out this. Sa evāyam... Yogaḥ proktaḥ purātanaḥ evāyaṁ te.
Prabhupāda: But in our Māyāpur, that plant, we spent so much, it has not become successful.
Indian man: No that is mechanical fault. Just like electricity now it has failed. Now sir, we should not stop utilizing electricity.
Prabhupāda: No, any machine, that defect will be there.
Indian man: But that we have been working for twenty years in Ahmedabad. Everybody is very happy there, and they're actually making money out of it. The fertilizer that is there is about four times what is normally achieved. So good maintenance are required for any...
Prabhupāda: (sneezes loud) I have no objection, but I've got experience. In Māyāpur it is failure.
Indian man (2): Sometimes we get a defective machine. I purchased one for my girl's house. I've got a number of about 30. But one was rejected but...
Indian man: Either defective machine or defective maintenance.
Prabhupāda: Maybe. But the difficulty is there. (sneezes) (pause)
Indian man: (Hindi)
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. Now, we're also going to do this in Bombay, Śrīla Prabhupāda because...
Prabhupāda: But first of all, you make one successful here. Then you think of other.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But now we should not teach them any exercise at all?
Prabhupāda: This is exercise. If he sits down two hours like that, it is more than exercise.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But this may not satisfy them. They may want to do...
Prabhupāda: No, we are not going to satisfy them. This is our... This is our process. If you want to learn, then we have to learn according to Bhagavad-gītā. We are not going to flatter you.
Hari-śauri: If we explain that the whole purpose of the exercises...
Prabhupāda: That is the explanation required.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Is to concentrate, and by concentration your health will improve.
Hari-śauri: The idea is to tone the body so the senses are subdued.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hari-śauri: So we engage their senses in kīrtana.
Prabhupāda: That is the actual fact. You read that portion.
Jagadīśa: They are coming to India to learn yoga, right? What is the perfection of yoga? Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Dr. Patel: United Nation of sewers. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Yes. So how it will be successful?
Guest (1): That is all they have. This is disunited nation, not united nation.
Prabhupāda: I said in some public meeting in Melbourne, "The United Nation is the assembly of some dogs. They are barking." And newspapermen added, "The Swami has come to hound you." (laughter) Eh? What is that?
Hari-śauri: "His Divine Grace is here to hound us."
Prabhupāda: Hound. Yes. So I attacked the whole United Nations, and so they attacked me also.
Dr. Patel: No, we have seen the League of Nations was even better than the United Nations. They are all really fighting among themselves very badly.
Prabhupāda: Now how they cannot fight? They are swines and dogs. How they will remain peaceful? It is not possible. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). Unless they are spiritually elevated they cannot be peaceful. It is impossible. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Simply by stamping.
Dr. Patel: And there is another class of...
Prabhupāda: Gandhi became mahātmā, but his mission was, "Get out, Englishmen, get out." Where is samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu? He declared himself mahātmā, but his business was how to drive away the Englishmen.
Prabhupāda: All right. No, no, why you (indistinct). Young man... (break) ...the world... (break) (laughs) So similarly, if one is giving very important service, then even if there is some faulty thing, excuse. Service is so important. So in the Western country the woman can give very good service. Api cet sudarācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). This, our book distribution is the most important task in our society. Therefore I am giving so much stress and I am working so hard on this. Because this is my life and soul according to the order of my Guru Mahārāja. And by his grace it is to some extent successful. And I took it seriously. I take it seriously still now. That is my life and soul. I never tried in India to construct big temples or even in your country we didn't. I never tried. But I was selling personally books. That is the history. Sometimes they are criticizing, "What kind of sannyāsī? He is doing book business." (laughs) The other day that, what is his name? Bachu Hai came. Bachu Hai Dresswalla. You know him?
Girirāja: I know one Madanlal Dresswalla.
Prabhupāda: I think this is... There are two, three Dresswalla in Bhuvaneśvara.
Girirāja: Yes, he's also in Bhuvaneśvara.
Prabhupāda: Maybe their father. In the beginning I had no place so I was staying with, what is that? Prem Niketan?
| Page Title: | Successful (Conversations 1976) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 04 of May, 2013 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=112, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 112 |