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Students (Conversations 1975)

Expressions researched:
"student" |"student's" |"students"

Conversations and Morning Walks

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1975, Tokyo:

Prabhupāda: Teletype, yes. You push here "a" and the other end the "a" will immediately strike. There is no need of another person typing. But how it is being done? There is electronic arrangement by higher scientist. Not that, ordinary typewriter will not, no. Suppose if you keep one typewriter at your brother's place and you push it here, will it strike there? (laughter) Why? Because there is no arrangement. There is no arrangement. So these are common sense but the rascals will not understand. That without a touch of the living entity nothing can be done. The supreme living entity is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is said mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ suyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). "I am the cause of the material energy working." Parasya śaktiḥ vividhaiva śruyate. There is parasya śaktiḥ, now who can explain how this flower has come into existence? That is same thing. The energy of Kṛṣṇa is working. Just like you want to paint one nice flower, so you have to take the brush and the color and you have to endeavor. Not that automatically coming, this beautiful flower. So how do you think this beautiful flower has come automatically? This is foolishness. There is also the brush, the paint, but it is so perfect that just like you cannot see how the other typewriter is striking. You cannot say it is automatically striking. There is arrangement. But this arrangement you do not understand. Therefore you are foolish, you are thinking that this typewriter is striking automatically. It is not automatically. Here the other typewriter it is stroken and there is electric arrangement and it is striking. So you have to understand like... That is sura. And asura, they will say, "No, there is no God. It is taking automatically, it is going on," This is foolishness. The asura means foolish, first-class foolish, that's all. Why it has become so? That is explained here. That they do not know how to behave, nāpi cācāraḥ. Na satyaṁ teṣu vidyate, neither they know what is the actual truth. They are defective themself and they are explaining in the defective way that so many rascal chemists they say that the chemical evolution is the cause of life. What is this nonsense? Chemical evolution, you get the chemicals and make a experiment and produce life. Then your proposal is all right that by chemical evolution there is life. No, that is not possible. You have got all the chemicals. Why don't you revive a dead man by injecting chemicals again into life, where is your power? So why do you talk foolishly like that? This should be challenged that "You are foolish number one." Actually it so happened in California. One big chemist he came there to lecture the chemical evolution, by mixing of chemical life has come into existence. So there was one student, he is my disciple, Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara, he said that (break) ...first-class cheater, that's all, mūḍhā. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). (indistinct) ...people are suffering for want of this knowledge. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we are trying to bring people in true platform of knowledge, not to increase death like these rascals and fools. That is our proposal. They are trying to obstruct us because if everyone becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious then they can't cheat anyone. Now Acyutānanda Swami, he went to some place, there was a big sannyāsī, very well-known sannyāsī. So he went to sell some books in their āśrama first of all. So one of his student, one of his disciple, he canvassed Acyutānanda, "Why don't you ask some question to Swamiji?" He clearly said, "I have nothing to question from your Swamiji. I know better than him." (laughter) So actually bring any so-called yogis, swamis or incarnation, our student will challenge him. He does not know anything. We have got such a nice book of knowledge, Bhagavad-gītā. By the arguments and proposition in the Bhagavad-gītā we can capture all these rascals and nonsense. All right? Yes, question is very good to understand clearly. (end)

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1975, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Sarva-śāstre kaya, lava-mātra sādhu-saṅge sarva-siddhi haya (CC Madhya 22.54). For me, personally, I had the opportunity to talk with my spiritual master not more than ten times in my whole life, not more. It may be less than that. But I tried to follow his instruction, that's all, although I was a gṛhastha.

Bali Mardana: You are a much better student than us.

Prabhupāda: So this is the process. That is the... You sing every day. Guru-mukha-padma-vākya, cittete koriyā aikya **. That is the process. Wherever you live, if you follow strictly the instruction of guru, then you remain perfect. But if we create, concoct ideas against the instruction of guru, then we are doomed, hell. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo yasyāprasādān na gatiḥ kuto 'pi **. There is no more shelter, finished. Yasya prasādāt. If guru thinks that "This person, I wanted to take him back to home, back to Godhead. Now he is going against me. He is not following," aprasādāt, he is displeased, then everything is finished.

Bali Mardana: Vaiṣṇavāparādha.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, other Guests and Disciples -- February 12, 1975, Mexico:

Guest (4): But is it possible to jump from brahmacārī to directly sannyāsa?

Prabhupāda: It is not jumping. It is regular process.

Guest (4): One should go through all the...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like student. Then he becomes a family man when he's grown up. Then he becomes again a sannyāsī. So it is a process. It is not jumping. One after another.

Guest (4): Yes, but would you allow one of the devotees to, if he wants to, observe celibacy and then...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is brahmacārī.

Guest (4): And after that...

Prabhupāda: After that, he should continue the life of celibacy. But if he is unable, then he's allowed to marry.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, other Guests and Disciples -- February 12, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: That means in need. So that is the question, that you may be in need of food, I may be in need of some woman, he may be in need of some money... In this way everyone is needy. Therefore ultimately one should search after God, when every need will be fulfilled. Just like Dhruva Mahārāja, he went... He was in need of an empire like his father. For that reason he went to the forest and performed all kinds of austerities, and when he saw God he said, svāmin kṛthārto 'smi varaṁ na yāce: "I have no more need. Everything is fulfilled. I don't want anything." He... God said, "Now whatever benediction you want, you take from Me." He said, "No, I don't want anything. Now everything is fulfilled." So that is the real need. The child is crying, and he is not stopping crying. So many others coming. But as soon as his mother comes, he will stop. He understands immediately, "Now I have got the thing, my mother." So the real need is Kṛṣṇa. That is missing. Therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. All these Western students, they were in need. Now they have got Kṛṣṇa. This young man, twenty-four years old, he has got all the desires for enjoyment, but he's no more after enjoyment. He's a sannyāsī. He's chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Why? (break) ...playing jugglery? He becomes God. So even the so-called yogis, they are in need. The so-called jñānīs, they are in need. The so-called karmīs, they are also in need. Only the bhakta... That Dhruva Mahārāja, he said, "No, I am not in need." Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce (CC Madhya 22.42). So therefore this is the only platform to bring man to feel completely fulfilled. So it is very important movement. So I request you all to study this movement and help and join this movement. It is very scientific, authentic, and real. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ (BG 18.66). If you want to be happy, you have to take Kṛṣṇa. Then you'll be happy. Otherwise not.

Room Conversation -- February 15, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: The main principle is, to understand spiritual subject matter, one must be sinless. You find that verse,

yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ
janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām
te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā
bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ
(BG 7.28)

(break) ...ess, more we can understand spiritual matters. Therefore among our students, the four principles... (break) Explain. Yes, are prohibited.

Mr. Cortez: (Spanish)

Hṛdayānanda: He says if to be sinless is not something more profound than simply restricting the body from some things, if there's not a more profound aspect of sinlessness.

Prabhupāda: The body is consider... Just like if you have got high fever, you cannot act your brain.

Hṛdayānanda: You cannot?

Prabhupāda: Act your brain. Similarly, this is also like fever, sinful fever, so you cannot act your brain for understanding higher spiritual matters.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: Because the knowledge must be perfect; otherwise imperfect knowledge.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying why do you say a perfect person instead of saying a perfect philosophy?

Prabhupāda: No, unless the philosophy is given by a perfect person how the philosophy can be perfect? Philosophy means searching after the truth. So if he does not know how to find out the truth, what is the meaning of his philosophy? I was a student of philosophy. My professor was Dr. Urquhart. He used to say that "Philosophy is the science of science." So unless he is a perfect scientist, how he can give science?

Professor: I have other question. Why do we want to transcend?

Prabhupāda: I am not wanting. I am simply distributing the transcendental knowledge.

Professor: Will not transcendence be an illusion too?

Prabhupāda: No, no, there is proof. It is not emotion. What you say, you have no proof, but what I say I have got proof. What you say, you become your own authority. But what I say, I have got greater authority. Just like two lawyers speaking before the court—the lawyer who gives quotation from the authority, he gains the case.

Room Conversation with Professors -- February 19, 1975, Caracas:

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He says that... It's some story that when Buddha was about to leave his body, he said that... Anyway, the conclusion of the story is that he also considered himself imperfect.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the greatness of Buddha. Because his followers were imperfect, he could not say more than what they could understand. Therefore he said that "I am imperfect." His mission was to stop animal killing. But people are very much accustomed to animal killing, so he did not say higher things that they could not understand. For them, if they could stop animal killing, that was perfection. For primary student, if he understands the mathematics, two plus two equal to four, that is his perfection. That does not mean there is no higher mathematics. Give them prasāda. Wait, wait. Bring it. Wait, wait little minute. (break) ...otherwise one cannot understand spiritual matter.

Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He says, "That's another one of my problems."

Prabhupāda: It is not problem; it is practice. If you come here daily, within a week you will learn.

Professor: Every night?

Prabhupāda: Yes. We can give you hundreds of preparations, vegetarian.

Room Conversation with Psychiatrist -- February 22, 1975, Caracas:

Lady (Hṛdayānanda): She said that she has studied... She's not sure because she herself has, for example, studied two years in theology when she was a student.

Prabhupāda: Theology is different. Not very much different, but the modern so-called theology, that is also different speculation. That is not science. There are different theologists. Science cannot be differently opinion. Two plus two is science. It is always four. Nobody can say that "In my opinion it is five," "In my opinion it is three." That is not science; that is speculation.

Lady (Hṛdayānanda): She would like to know what would be the characteristics of this brahminical class, how would they be selected and what are their qualities and so on?

Prabhupāda: Just find out this, satyaḥ śamaḥ damaḥ, titikṣa ārjavaḥ āstikyaṁ, jñānam vijñānam, brahma-karma svabhāva.

Morning Walk -- February 23, 1975, Caracas:

Hṛdayānanda: They are very much afraid.

Prabhupāda: Very much afraid, yes.

Hṛdayānanda: There is one great scientist when I was a student, and he was trying to prove how there was no God, and he was so nervous, sometimes he could hardly speak he was shaking so much. (laughter)

Vīrabāhu: Oh, yes, that is what happens. When one starts speaking of God, they just...

Prabhupāda: So long you have not solved the four prominent miserable condition of life, birth, death, old age and disease, you cannot say there is no God. There is controller who is forcing you to accept these conditions. Therefore there is authority. How you can avoid this?

Vīrabāhu: They say, "Some day. Some day we will do."

Prabhupāda: Some day, rascal, somebody will come and kick your face with shoes. (laughter)

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1975, Atlanta:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, the nature is not understood.

Prabhupāda: You see? That means you are rascal. You have not understood. You have no knowledge. As soon as you cannot explain, you prove your foolishness, that's all. That is not scientific answer, "chance," "nature." What is the nature? Who is conducting nature? How the nature is going on so nicely?

Rūpānuga: You said before they were acting as teachers, but actually they are still students.

Prabhupāda: No, they are cheater. They are cheater, not teacher, cheater. They have no full knowledge; still, they have become teacher. You cannot become teacher unless you have got full knowledge. That is cheater.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, suppose that they acknowledge the fact that they do not know, but they challenge, "How do you know what you believe is right?"

Prabhupāda: Because I have approached the Supreme, the supreme brain, Kṛṣṇa. He is the perfect person in knowledge. Aiśvaryasya, jñāna. Vedāhaṁ samatītāni (BG 7.26). He knows everything. He is conducting nature. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ suyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). Yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta-kālacakro. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). So we know from the perfect. Therefore my knowledge is perfect. I am not perfect; that's a fact. But my knowledge is perfect. Just like I am not an electrician. But the electrician has told me that "You push this button. There will be light." So I am doing that. What is the use of becoming electrician? I want light, and the electrician told me, "Just push this button." I am doing that, and light is there. That's all. You cannot say, "You are not a electrician. How you can say the light...?" And I know from the perfect person, and it is acting. This is our position. It doesn't require that I will have to become electrician. The electrician has told that "You push this button," and there is light. That's all. Does it require that I will have to become a electrician to conduct this light?

Room Conversation with Tripurari -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: He has got his foreword in the Kṛṣṇa book.

Devotee (1): Now each one, the foreword is there, in every volume. So we always show them that and they're very impressed, especially hippies and students, college students.

Devotee (5): Just like Kṛṣṇa says. What the big men do, the common men follow.

Prabhupāda: He gave me first money for publishing Kṛṣṇa book, $19,000. He is a good boy. He is a good boy, and he has got good regard for me.

Devotee (3): He just recently went on a concert tour around the country, and he was having the young people chant Kṛṣṇa's names in the concert. And because of the concert tour, many, many, many books were distributed, unlimited.

Prabhupāda: Oh, his song, "Kṛṣṇa..." I have forgotten that. That record?

Tripurāri: Yes. And he went on a tour of the United States, playing at different cities, concerts, and he would ask people in the audience to chant, "Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: He was asking?

Tripurāri: Yes.

Room Conversation with Tripurari -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Then you can do it. It makes you well known in the city. And you get the opportunity of criticizing the demons. (laughter) That is...

Satsvarūpa: This boy is Bhakta Doug, and he was a personal secretary of Maharishi for two years.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Satsvarūpa: He traveled all over with him. And one day... He was a very good student, and one day Maharishi said, "If you really want to know the highest truth, it's Kṛṣṇa consciousness." And then he left and he came and joined our tem... (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Maharishi said like that?

Doug: Yes, he did say that. It took me awhile to make the transition, but with Kṛṣṇa's mercy, I saw the way through to become Kṛṣṇa...

Devotee (5): Maharishi must have read one of your books, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: He has read my books?

Devotee (5): He must have, if he said that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the highest truth. How else could he know but reading your books?

Devotee (3): One time we were in Orlando, Florida, at the Kundalini Yoga festival. And they had Yogi Bhajan there. And he came out and we had a chant, and we had prasādam, and we had BTG's, and we distributed some BTG's. And he took a BTG and gave a dollar donation, and he patted us on the head and said, "You boys keep chanting the holy names of God."

Balavanta: That Guru Maharaj-ji, that little fat boy? So he told his disciples that if you want to learn, you should go to the Hare Kṛṣṇa temple and learn pūjā. He said, "They know how to worship." But then they go and worship him. But he told them that only your disciples know how to pūjā.

Tripurāri: They are just imitating the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Tripurari -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: One hundred...?

Doug: The 108. He called it The 108, but the official term was the executive council. And that's what I was with...

Prabhupāda: How many students are there?

Doug: How many students do his meditation?

Prabhupāda: No, the university?

Doug: In the university? I haven't been with them in a year and a half, but they recently bought a college, and they have part of a college in Santa Barbara, the University of California there. So they're pretty well established educationally. But it's losing its potency actually. I think it's actually reached its peak and left, because when I was with Maharishi also I noticed that it seemed that a lot of his potency seemed to diminish, his charisma, over the years. Seemed to me he'd get more and more depressed if people weren't actually reaching the states that he was talking of. It didn't seem like he was satisfied with the advancement people were making. And certainly he wasn't answering the questions, because all that time I was asking him "What is the highest truth." And when he talked to God I would say, "Who is God?" And we'd ask him, "Who is Kṛṣṇa?" and "What about this Kṛṣṇa conscious movement?" And it was word jugglery. He'd kind of evade our questions and satisfy our elan, but... those questions kept coming up. Somehow he kept us from going into too much detail about it. But eventually... I didn't see him for a few days. This was when I was in the mountains with him, some other people. And we were making up these curriculums for this college program. And he was doing some transcriptions on the Brahma-sūtras, and he came out, and he was in a very solemn mood, and he said... We asked him what he had realized, what truths he had realized from the Brahma-sutras. And he said, "Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the highest state of consciousness." So I left shortly after that. I feel that I could have been chanting all those years, making some progress.

Prabhupāda: What is his age?

Doug: What is my age?

Prabhupāda: No, his age.

Doug: His age? He's sixty-eight.

Prabhupāda: Old man.

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: You are not as old as I am. What is your age?

Ambassador: I am fifty-six.

Prabhupāda: Oh, you are just like my child. My first child was born 1921. What is your birth date?

Ambassador: That was three years earlier. So there you are.

Prabhupāda: 1918? In that year I was married. I was student at that time. I was student, 1900 up to '20. Then I joined Gandhi's noncooperation movement and gave up my education. His points were to give up English education, English court, English-manufactured goods, in this way.

Ambassador: How did you feel about Gandhiji spiritually?

Prabhupāda: He was a good gentleman, that's all. He had no spiritual asset.

Ambassador: That's what I wondered. I never met him. I don't know. But he said himself, "I may be a saint among politicians, but I'm a politician among saints." (laughs)

Prabhupāda: He said or the governor said? Anyway, it is... Mr. Casey from Australia—he was governor of Bengal—he said, I think, that thing. His study was like that. He was a politician, that's all.

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Ambassador: So bhakti is really a process of decontaminating the mind.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Right you are. You are intelligent and... Yes. That is the real education. And all this rascal education will not help because all this education will keep him within this material body. And his real relief is how to get out of this material body. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti (BG 4.9). This is required, in Bhagavad-gītā. After giving up this body no more acceptance of this material body. That is real education. And Bhāgavata says, pitā na sa syāj jananī na sā syāt, gurur na sā syāt, na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mṛtyum. There is no need of becoming father unless you train up your child to accept no more this material body. The child should be trained up by the father. The guru should train up the disciple in such a way that the disciple or the child or the student will not have to accept any more this material body. That is education. And the whole Vedic education is meant for this purpose. (break) ...in his original spiritual life, that is mukti. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means that—to educate people how to achieve his original consciousness. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: So, if you don't infect a certain disease, then you don't grow it. And if you infect... Therefore you must know or you must know the rules and regulation, how you can save yourself from infection. If you are ignorant and if you infect some disease, epidemic, then you have to suffer. If you remain disinfected, then you don't get inferior body, you get superior body, in other planets. Or you can go back to home, back to Godhead. Therefore I said that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is for purification so that you may not get infected by the material modes. Therefore we advise our student four regulative principles: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication. Plus chanting the holy name of God. Then you remain immune from the infection. And that you will feel practically also, if you adopt the means. Now it is up to us to decide whether I shall continue the life of infection or I shall remain immune from all infection. That is your decision. Better we should remain immune from all kinds of infection, and that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān (BG 14.26), find out this verse.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Sarvam etaṁ ṛtaṁ manye yad vadasi keśava: "My dear Keśava..." Keśava, the another name of Kṛṣṇa... "Whatever You have said I accept them cent percent." Sarvam etaṁ ṛtam. Ṛtam means fact, truth. This is understanding. So if we accept in that way, then our knowledge is perfect. And if we accept in a different way... Just like Gandhi says that "I do not believe that Kṛṣṇa ever lived." Just see. He does not believe in the ācāryas. All the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, they have written big, big comment on Bhagavad-gītā, even Śaṅkarācārya. He does not believe anyone. He believes himself. And that kind of belief is not help. And our process is: because Kṛṣṇa has been accepted by all the ācāryas, all the great sages, Arjuna has accepted—we accept, that's all. We have no difficulty. If I am child, I ask my father, "What is this, my father?" The father says, "My dear child, it is called coconut." Then, if I distribute this knowledge, "This is coconut," then my knowledge is perfect. I may not be perfect, but because I have heard it from my father, who is perfect about the knowledge of this fruit, so I have taken that word from my father, and I am preaching, "This is coconut," and this is perfect. So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is like that. We are simply repeating the perfect statement of our predecessor. That's all. So there is no difficulty. We haven't got to write thesis on Kṛṣṇa. The perfect knowledge is already there. And supported by the ācāryas. And we are simply submitting that "This is Kṛṣṇa. This is God." That's all. All over the world we are placing this statement that "Here is Bhagavad-gītā, and Kṛṣṇa spoke. He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He is like this. He is the original source of everything." Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ: (BG 10.8) "I am the origin of everything." And Kṛṣṇa also says, "After many, many births one come to this understanding that vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti: (BG 7.19) 'Vasudeva is everything.' " Kṛṣṇa says, "I am everything." And when one understands that Kṛṣṇa is everything, sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ, that mahātmā is very rare. So my point is that simply replacing... not replacing, submitting the same statement as the great saintly person, ācāryas have accepted, we are getting the result very nice, instead of theorizing in my own way, although it is not very difficult. Kṛṣṇa says that "You always think of Me," man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. So we are teaching people the same way, that "You always think of Kṛṣṇa. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." That is thinking of Kṛṣṇa. So that is being effective. We are getting good result all over the world. Anyone who is thinking of Kṛṣṇa, he is becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, fully convinced, dedicating his life for Kṛṣṇa. Nobody can change him. Now any of my students, you ask them to change his position from Kṛṣṇa consciousness to something else. I don't think they will agree. They are not fools; they are all qualified, educated. They are firmly convinced about Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And all of them will explain how they are convinced. If you ask them, any one of them will explain.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:
Prabhupāda: Then in order to increase that faith you have to associate with the persons who are executing devotional service. That is called sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83). The devotees are called sādhu. Therefore we are opening centers, why? To give chance people to make association with the devotees. Sādhu-saṅga. And then sādhu-saṅga, after sādhu-saṅga one who has properly made sādhu-saṅga, the next stage is bhajana-kriyā: how they are executing devotional service. Then anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. Then this anartha. Anartha means unwanted things. Just like illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication, these are unwanted things. It is not necessary. People have learned them by bad association. When one has got his wife, why he should indulge in illicit sex? This is sinful. When we have got so many things to eat, why shall I go to kill an animal, eat it? So these are anartha. Anartha means "without any meaning." So these things become vanquished. If one is actually engaged in devotional service, the first symptom will be that he is not interested in things which are unwanted, artificial. These are the stages. Then niṣṭhā. Niṣṭhā means firm conviction. Then ruciḥ, taste. Then āsaktiḥ, attachment. Then bhāva, and then prema. So as a student is serious, he gets promotion to next higher class, higher class, higher class, higher class, gradually to the M.A. class. That is natural. But if in the beginning he is not serious, no enthusiasm, then what is the reason that he will be promoted to the higher section? That is not possible.
Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Atreya Ṛṣi: Yes, it's not a religion.

Prabhupāda: No, if you want to study something, and suppose you are sometimes from India, the same subject he's going to study in foreign country, farther enlightenment, it is also not necessary that to study a subject matter more and more, we have to remain in the same jurisdiction. If I am actually anxious to know more and more, it doesn't matter whether I get the knowledge from Mohammedan or Hindu or Christian, it doesn't matter. Knowledge is knowledge. When a student goes from one country to another to get farther enlightenment on a subject matter, he does not think that "I'll have to learn it from here, from my university." For knowledge, progress of knowledge, you can go to any university. Because knowledge must be scientific. It is not restricted within the jurisdiction of a particular university. So, sun we are seeing, everyone, the sun, getting heat and light but if anyone is interested (to) know how the heat is coming, how the light is coming, what is the situation of the sun globe, whether there are living entities or not. They're also subject matter. So if you can get enlightenment of the sun, we should not restrict ourselves that we have to study with this jurisdiction of my university, or my country, or my society. If the knowledge is there, we should be prepared to go forward. Mm.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Pañcadraviḍa: No leaning.

Prabhupāda: No. You'll never see any picture, he was leaning. So that Lord Ronaldsey (?) was very good scholar. So we were... When he was invited, he was taken to all the classes. So I was, at that time, in the second year. So I took permission to sit down in the first benches. The... Our college was very big. So in each class there were 150 students. (break) Where is...

Brahmānanda: Tamāla Kṛṣṇa is taking a bath.

Prabhupāda: So they were giving role number according to admission. So I did not know that. So my role number was 105. So I thought it very incon... "I have to sit down after one hundred students?" So I took one certificate from Dr. Karttika Chandra Bose, who became, later on, my boss. Because he was our father's friend, so "Give me one certificate in this way, that I am hard of hearing. I must be given first row seat." So he gave immediately certificate. What is that?

Śrutakīrti: Some juice.

Jagajīvana: Some juice and some watermelon, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Oh, all right. Give it.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prajāpati: Again there's no absolute authority. In the vast Christian tradition we have Origen saying one thing and Saint Francis saying another. Widespread... That's why it is not a science that we can go to like we can to Śrīla Prabhupāda for an exact answer, Bhagavad-gītā, exact absolute authority. In the Christian tradition it is simply defined as faithful men understanding themselves in the light of the scripture, in the light of the tradition.

Prabhupāda: No, that is because you are our student. Suppose our preachers meet the theologicians. How to prove that theology is not the means? Theology... Generally, you say it is speculation. So our point is that nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhyo na medhayā na bahunā śrutena. The ātmā, Kṛṣṇa, cannot be understood or approached, pravacanena, simply by logical arguments.

Prajāpati: The theologian would agree, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's a question of what's called apologetics. Theology has a specific function for the Christian church, to bring people within the fold. Simply to convince them through any means, logical or whatever, to them to come within the church community, and then once they are within that group, then they can participate in what's called the Christian life. You have taking sacraments, engage in Christian fellowship, taking communion, so many things.

Acyutānanda: But their authorities disagree.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: What is that scholarship? Simply...

Prajāpati: The scholarship... They have degrees by their names, and they've gone through listening to other mental speculators, and now their students listen to them.

Prabhupāda: You said there are twelve names?

Ravīndra-svarūpa: Yes. I have a list of them.

Prabhupāda: In the Bible?

Ravīndra-svarūpa: Yes. One of them means "the Lord who sees me." One of them means "the supreme friend," "the supreme father." One of them means "the Lord of the mountain." One of them means "the King, the greatest King." "Brother" is another meaning. So... And these are all in the Old Testament, all these different names. So one of their arguments is that we're presenting a different name. Therefore they think it is a different God. We can refer that there are twelve names. Does that mean that there are twelve Gods?

Acyutānanda: We have names which apply to those also.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: Yes.

Acyutānanda: "Supreme friend."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Dīna-bandhu.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prajāpati: Each of these big theologians has a specific area of specialization. For example, I took a course, when I was a student in the School of Theology, in the New Testament, hoping to learn scriptures, but instead, the entire semester was spent trying to decide which of the books of the Bible came first—the Book of Matthew or the Book of Mark? And they had very detailed ways of what they called "form criticism," taking a particular passage and checking it, seeing...

Acyutānanda: Right. What is their method?

Pañcadraviḍa: Why did you say you joined? What was it? I mean what was it you were trying to study? You said...

Prajāpati: I went three years to a school of theology.

Pañcadraviḍa: But that particular course?

Prajāpati: This was a course in the New Testament.

Pañcadraviḍa: So why, why did you say you took it?

Prajāpati: To study the śāstra, to study the scriptures. What was being said. Instead...

Acyutānanda: No, what was their method for examining their material, research?

Prajāpati: The material research is taking, finding certain forms, certain sentence construction, grammar, and comparing it with other passages in the scriptures as opposed to that grammar, to see if the form is the same, to see, to determine by different criteria which came first, which is earlier.

Acyutānanda: So after...

Prabhupāda: No, their...

Acyutānanda: Since St. Paul did they find out...

Prabhupāda: That is academic. That is not theology.

Room Conversation -- April 4, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhagavān: They are not dramatic like our movement. Our movement is very dramatic and obvious.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhagavān: And we're an obvious cultural movement, whereas they are a hobby.

Prabhupāda: Hobby. That they can understand. So on account of this political situation, the government is not very favorable to our movement. But we have to counteract it by our behavior, by our propaganda. It is not difficult if you do it very nicely. We opened this college program, that foreigners should come here, then it will be solved. If it is recognized by the university and you come, you people come as students, then the whole situation will be solved.

Devotee (1): Here in Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: Hm. (end)

Conversation with Indian Guests -- April 12, 1975, Hyderabad:

Guest (3): Even in the Bhāgavatam you don't see the...

Prabhupāda: No, Rādhā... There, Bhāgavata, there is. That is foolish proposition, "In the Bhāgavata there is no Rādhārāṇī." There is. But at least in the Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa has never said about His Vṛndāvana-līlā. No. That is very confidential. That is not for common man. The common man, first of all let him understand what is Kṛṣṇa. That is Bhagavad-gītā. That they do not understand. Even big, big leaders, politicians, scholars, they do not understand. Because they do not take to Kṛṣṇa's instruction, therefore they fail to understand. And what they'll understand about Rādhārāṇī? You... If you are my confidential friend, then I can take to my family. And if you are outsider, why should you expect to come into my family life? This is common sense. You do not understand Kṛṣṇa, and you want to understand Kṛṣṇa's dealings with Rādhārāṇī. That is very confidential. Rādhā-kṛṣṇa-praṇaya-vikṛtir hlādinī-śaktir asmāt. You have to understand Kṛṣṇa, then His pleasure potency, hlādinī-śakti. The difficulty is that we do not want to become a regular student. Haphazardly, here and there, here and there, but I remain the same thing. It is a science. Jñānaṁ me paramaṁ guhyaṁ yad vijñāna-samanvitam. Tad vijñāna samanvitam. Jñānaṁ te 'haṁ sa-vijñānaṁ pravakṣyāmi anasūyave, yaj jñātvā na anyaj jñātavyam avaśiṣyate... (BG 7.2). But the Vedas do not say like that. Vedas say, tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). If you are serious to learn about that, tad vijñāna. Tad vijñānaṁ, gurum evābhigacchet. You must go to a bona fide guru who can teach you. Nobody is serious. That is the difficulty.

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Therefore you are fool. You have to learn. That means you have to learn, means you are fool.

Yaśodānandana: But we are learning.

Prabhupāda: Don't assert it, that you have done it already, you shall do it... As soon as you say we have to learn, that means you are fools. And while you are student, why you are claiming all these perfections? You have to learn. That you have to learn from us.

Brahmānanda: Actually, when I was in Germany, there was evidence of how the scientists increased disease. They invented some vaccine to counteract influenza, and they injected all of Germany with this vaccine. But what happened is sometimes the body builds up resistance to these vaccines and produces another germ. So, as a result, another type of influenza was created, which was far more worse than the previous. It made people get fever for four and five days straight, 105 degrees.

Prabhupāda: That is the way of... They have discovered this streptomycin, for tuberculosis, that if one takes too many injections of streptomycin, then it does not act.

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. But I'm trying because I have got this material body like you, so I have to suffer like you. But I'm making treatment. You are not making treatment.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But the effects appear to be the same on everyone.

Prabhupāda: No. We are not so much after doctors or medical...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your students also suffer from diseases and all...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. So long the body's there, one has to suffer. That we tolerate. That is advised in the Bhagavad-gītā,

mātrā sparśās tu kaunteya
śītoṣṇa-sukha-duḥkha-dāḥ
āgamāpāyino nityās
tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata
(BG 2.14)

Titikṣa, we know how to tolerate. We are not mad after curing. We know these things will happen so long I have got this body.

Conversation with Devotees -- April 14, 1975, Hyderabad:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about our art and literature which just shows that...

Prabhupāda: No. That is different department so far science is concerned. But pure science is useless, simply useless.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If we acknowledge that, suppose we acknowledge that, but we say that still our cultural advancements are very great. The students say that...

Prabhupāda: That's a fact. That's a fact.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say "Why...?" Many people I meet in the university they're not involved with science very much. Their main dealings are with culture, literature, arts, philosophy, music. They say... He feels we have very wonderful, beautiful things to study so why should we take up studying what you have to offer. There's so much to study with what we're doing. Why should we join your movement? Why should we give up studying such beautiful music and art and literature?

Prabhupāda: Because you'll like it. And there is beautiful sounds, you'll hear it. Even animals hear it.

Conversation with Governor -- April 20, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Vānaprastha college, yes. That is the very essential thing at the present moment, that a class of men... Just like the same example: If one wants to become an engineer he must be properly trained up. If he wants to become a medical man he must be properly trained up. Similarly, if one wants to become a brāhmaṇa, then he must be properly trained up, or even if one does not want, the state should maintain a college where a real brāhmaṇa is trained up. Just like Sir Ashutosh Mukherjee, when he opened some higher studies of academic qualification, so there was one or two students, and there were three professors drawing at least twelve hundred rupees per month. So twelve hundred rupees per month, that means thirty-six hundred, expenditure, and the income is thirty-six rupees. It is not the question of money, but it is the question of culture. So even though at the present moment people are not inclined to become a brāhmaṇa, I tried it. I tried it before starting this movement. I tried to some friends that "You have got four sons. Give me one son. I shall train him how to become a perfect brāhmaṇa." Nobody agreed. They said, "Swamiji, (Hindi)," But if there is not a ideal class of brāhmaṇa, then how you can say that you become moralist? If there is no example of moralist, how you can ask people, "Become moralist"?

Governor: The thing is a very intensive and completely dedicated course on making an individual a brāhmaṇa. (indistinct)... Then the second thing is not that intensively, but in a village (indistinct) all people.

Prabhupāda: All people.

Morning Walk -- May 7, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: Recently we have shown the film and spoken in several Catholic schools in Melbourne. They have comparative religion classes, and they ask us to come to their high schools to teach comparative religion so the students can see what other religions think. Usually they...

Prabhupāda: There is no other religion. All bogus. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo. Only religion is to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. That is religion.

Amogha: They think that if they sin it's all right, because man is imperfect. So they think we should believe in Jesus.

Prabhupāda: Every animal is imperfect, but man—animal can become perfect. If he likes. So it is very important life.

Śrutakīrti: They say it's not possible to become perfect, that that's saying "I can become God."

Prabhupāda: What?

Śrutakīrti: They say only God can be perfect, that we cannot become perfect.

Prabhupāda: No, you cannot become as perfect as God, but near about.

Morning Walk -- May 7, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: They seem to like everything about our philosophy, except when we explain very clearly that everyone is sinning and under the control of lust and that we must become free from lust. Then they become disturbed because they don't know how to do this, and they want to disclaim it. Just when I was saying that in one class, they all understood very clearly by examples that we are all controlled by our senses, and this microphone speaker came on for all classes, interrupting my speech, and a voice announced in the Catholic school, "Would all the students whose parents purchased tickets for the wine-tasting festival tonight please report to the office," and they all began to laugh because they were embarrassed, because they could see that actually they were engaged in sinful activities. They are also very amazed when they see your books. Sometimes we take ten or fifteen books-Bhagavad-gītā, and ten Śrīmad Bhāgavatams, Caitanya-caritāmṛta—and we line them all across the front wall or desk, maybe fifteen books. And I begin by saying, "I'm sorry there's only a few minutes to talk, because our Bible is very big," and then I explain, "This is Bhagavad-gītā, and then Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam's sixty volumes. Caitanya-caritāmṛta-twelve volumes." And they become very much amazed that this is our..., beginning of our Bible. (break) What can we say to Communists to attract them to Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: To make their Communist philosophy perfection. That your Communism is not perfect. By Kṛṣṇa consciousness you can make it perfect. Take for example that you are sympathetic to all living beings that they must eat. But why you are eating animals? They must eat also. Why don't you allow them to eat? That is you defect. We allow everyone to eat. Not only human beings, but also animals, birds, beasts, they should live comfortably and without any disturbance, they must get their food. That is our Communism. But where is your Communism? You are thinking of your countrymen only, or in your country also only for the human being, and you are sending other poor animals, because they cannot protest, to the slaughterhouse. So why do you protest to the capitalists when they send you to the slaughterhouse? You are sending these poor animals to the slaughterhouse. So why do you protest? You protest that the capitalist are slaughtering you. So, if you slaughter others, why should you be afraid of being slaughtered yourself? Is it all right?

Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Then? Do you think the powerhouse is going on?

Paramahaṁsa: Well we could see him. We could go, we could drive there right now and see him.

Prabhupāda: Yes, you can see. You can go to Kṛṣṇa and see Him. That requires qualification.

Paramahaṁsa: That's not as easy.

Prabhupāda: No, it is very easy. It is simply, as we are teaching our students, just become a devotee, offer namaskār, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto, always think of Him, and you will go to Him. It is not at all difficult. Bahavo jñāna-tapasā pūtā mad-bhāvam āgatāḥ. Bahavo, many, did come to Me. How? Jñāna-tapasā, by knowledge and tapasya, being purified, they come to Me. Kṛṣṇa says. Why you are disappointed? You can go. Kṛṣṇa is open. Te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. Striya śūdra tathā vaiśya, even the women, less intelligent, the śūdra, vaiśya, they can come. Where is the difficulty? Even if you are born very lowest, you can go. Kṛṣṇa is open to everyone. Simply you become qualified. That's all. And what is the qualification? Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65), just always think of Me, become My devotee, offer your respects to Me, and man-manā, worship Me. Four things. That... We are opening this temple (in Melbourne) for this purpose, that you always think of Him, you worship Him, you offer obeisances to Him, and become His devotee. And then? Mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ (BG 18.68), without a doubt you will come to Him. What is the difficulty? There is no difficulty.

Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: That's alright, but if you are intelligent enough, if you are a rascal fool, you cannot see, but if you are intelligent, then you'll be eager to: "Who is operating? Let me see?" That is the difference of intelligence. Dull, just like we read one story. One little boy he was beating on a drum. So, he became inquisitive, "Wherefrom the sound is coming? Somebody must be within it." He took a knife and cut it. This is intelligence. Wherefrom the sound is coming? He was beating-dum, dum, dum—he became inquisitive. That is intelligence. A dull student-coming, that's all. And intelligent, he tries to (find out), that is intelligence. Inquisitive. Intelligent boy will always enquire, "What is this, father? What is this father? Wherefrom the sound is coming?" That is intelligence. So, if one is very dull—just like cats and dogs, they cannot enquire. What is this machine? What is this behind? It is the human form of life—these enquiries should come. Otherwise he remains a cat and dog.

Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Gaṇeśa: We can see from the results of those different directions.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Results, phalena-paricīyate. That is required. Now there are so many Gandhi-ite students. They have also read Bhagavad-gītā, and you have also read Bhagavad-gītā. Find out the difference. That is the result.

Paramahaṁsa: We have heard that Gandhi was a great mahātmā.

Prabhupāda: You have heard. You have heard so many things. That mountain gave birth to a mouse. You have heard like that.

Paramahaṁsa: But Gandhi also read the Bhagavad-gītā, and he made so many wonderful comments on the Gītā.

Prabhupāda: That wonderfulness is for the rascals and the fools. What wonderful he has done? He preached nonviolence, but he was killed by violence. That is his wonderful example. He preached the philosophy of nonviolence, which is impossible. Therefore Kṛṣṇa killed him by violence. This is his wonderful. And his foolishness was proved, that there cannot be nonviolence. So he was a fool.

Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Nobody is Communist, but if the demons are powerful, they will declare.

Paramahaṁsa: They will introduce it.

Prabhupāda: They will not introduce; they will declare like that, falsely. That's all.

Paramahaṁsa: Even in some countries where Communism has a very light influence, like in Thailand there's a little bit of Communist influence, when they had a student revolt, the government came in with tanks and machine guns and immediately killed about three thousand students.

Prabhupāda: In Thailand?

Paramahaṁsa: Yes. In Bangkok. That was about two years ago.

Prabhupāda: Oh, just see.

Paramahaṁsa: So the people are very afraid to cause any upheaval. They are afraid that immediately the government will just come and kill them. 'Cause the government has all the weapons. They have the tanks and the guns and everything. And the normal people, they don't have any weapons.

Prabhupāda: This is the age of Kali-yuga. Therefore the only shelter is Kṛṣṇa. There is no other way. In India it's practically dwindling. Now there is no reason they are not sanctioning our temple. They do not give any reason. "No!" Why "No"? "We don't give any reason." And "Kīrtana is nuisance, nuisance." They are doing that already.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Some decomposed things? And this is not good for you. (pause) They fish this side?

Amogha: The birds? Seagulls.

Prabhupāda: He has got the human body. He also... These birds are catching fish. He does not know that he has got other business.

Amogha: At the school, the students say, "Why not eat fish? Jesus was passing out fish, in the Bible. And we all catch fish. We like to catch fish." And then we tell them about meat. So, they think that we are loosing a great pleasure, that we cannot eat meat.

Prabhupāda: You tell them, that you will be very merry—that's all right. But do you want to stop these merry affairs all of a sudden? Ask them, what will they reply?

Amogha: They'll say "No, we don't want to stop."

Prabhupāda: Then, the nature will stop it. What are you going to arrange for that?

Amogha: They say, "We don't know what will happen after, so we'll just enjoy and have fun now, as much as possible."

Prabhupāda: So why have you come to school? Why don't you play all day?

Amogha: Because we need to get a good job so we...

Prabhupāda: Then, they are thinking of future. Now we are thinking of the future. That is ignorance—that they do not know what is future life. They are thinking of the future, that's a fact, but because they are kept in darkness, about future life, they are doing all this irresponsible work.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: So, you are trying to serve Kṛṣṇa very nicely. That is very good. These rascals are in ignorance and you are trying to enlighten them. Very good service. (break) After reading a book does anybody come and ask questions? Do they receive regularly letters and enquiries?

Amogha: Yes. Here they do. I answer many of the letters when they come. Last week, just before we came over to Perth, one boy wrote a letter, he said, "I cannot come to your temple, but I am a student in Geelong"—that's one city near Melbourne—"And when I come to Melbourne I always get your Back to Godhead magazine." So he said, "How can I become a member of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement?" So I wrote him a letter telling him about getting more books and chanting. And one man wrote us a letter from New Zealand. He said, "I have Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam parts one, two and three. Can you please tell me how many other parts I can get, because I want to have them all."

Prabhupāda: That is very good.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: That is very good.

Amogha: And in the schools they have comparative religion courses, and they usually write us a letter saying, "Can you please tell us, for our comparative religions class, what you believe and what is behind your movement?" And things like this. And if they are close enough we usually go there, or if not we write them and send them some literature. Everyone in the classes I find in the schools, everyone is bored with the ideas they are teaching. Everyone has heard it all, and they are bored. But when we come, they become very interested. Just like at one school. We had one hour. We showed the film, then we talked and answered questions for one hour, and then the bell rang. It was time for their next class. So the teacher said, "Students, shall we go to the next class or stay here?" And they said, "Oh, let's stay here. This is much better." So they stayed for one more hour. Their teaching is so dry, but we handed out mahā-prasādam, and it was very interesting. Usually in each class there are three or four students who are especially pious, and they come, they stay afterwards and ask many questions. We can also see that they are more affected by the understanding than the other students.

Prabhupāda: This road is good. There is no traffic.

Paramahaṁsa: All of the temples they are receiving letters regularly from (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: It is not meant for mass people. Only selected fortunate. My Guru Mahārāja used to say, "If I could make one person to be Kṛṣṇa conscious, then my mission would be successful." It is not for mass person. Only the fortunate they can do. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, by introducing saṅkīrtana, even the mass can take part. When there is saṅkīrtana, everyone joins. And by joining in that way, they will become purified.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Amogha: And he ate a big plate of prasādam. He liked it very much. So he was saying that perhaps we can have some regular comparative religion course in the school, and when we show the students, tell them about Hare Kṛṣṇa movement as a study, about, as he calls it, our religion, so they can also come in a bus to the temple.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Amogha: The students will come in a bus and see how we chant and have some prasādam.

Prabhupāda: It is a good reception. So that is still going on?

Amogha: It hasn't started yet. This is the plan. But sometimes he hesitates, because he has doubts.

Prabhupāda: Superstition. That is superstition.

Amogha: He gets in bad association, and then he begins to doubt a little bit, I think.

Prabhupāda: You do your duty, that's all. (pause) What is this? Stone or something?

Amogha: Part of the street I think. I think it's sandstone from the beach. (pause) Many politicians are afraid that Australia may be attacked by the Communists. Everyone is very much afraid of what could happen in the future, because the United States is becoming weaker.

Prabhupāda: Now they are indulging homosex, how they will become strong? And the students, they are discussing, that means they are having. The stamina is being lost. Now what they have created, it will be lost.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Anything they say nice, that means it is guaranteed, next life. Or even in this life it will definitely help. As soon as he reads some pages, then it is guaranteed. Those who are enquiring, that means they are liking. Their life is guaranteed.

Amogha: One man who joined us about Rathayātrā time last year was a solicitor. He used to buy our books but he never read them. But he would keep them on his bookshelf. And he used to always think, "Those are such beautiful books." He used to think like that.

Prabhupāda: This is appreciation.

Amogha: He never got time to read it.

Prabhupāda: It doesn't matter. If he keeps the books with appreciation, that makes his life sure, insured. He immediately becomes in touch with God. Who keeps the book with reverence and love, immediately he becomes in touch with God. Because these books are representative of God.

Amogha: When we go to a school, I first ask, "How many students have seen us chanting in the steets?" Immediately they all raise their hands.

Prabhupāda: It is a very nice service you are doing. Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied, hari-toṣaṇa. As soon as Kṛṣṇa is satisfied, your preaching is perfect. (end)

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Then you do not know. Why he says that Bhagavad-gītā was written five thousand years ago? Why do you say like that? You do not know. It was first spoken forty millions of years ago. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham... What kind of realization of Bhagavad-gītā, you do not know? I am accusing you because you are student of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. How you do not know?

Paramahaṁsa: I think he was posing as a materialist.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But one who does not know, why is he saying that Bhagavad-gītā was written five thousand years ago? He does not know. That is my point. If you had known then you would not have said like that, foolishly, that Bhagavad-gītā was spoken five thousand years ago. It is avyayam, it is eternally there. It is eternally there. Imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1). Avyayam means which is never under deterioration. It is eternally existing. That is avyayam. Just like ātmā, soul, avyayam. There is no deterioration. It is there. So forty millions of years ago once it was spoken, but in due course of time it is now lost; therefore I am speaking it again to you. You did not read Bhagavad-gītā it is said there? How do you say it was written five thousand years ago? It is already there. It was first spoken forty millions of years ago, now it is lost. The material world is like that. One thing is lost sometimes. Therefore I am speaking to you. And why are you speaking to me? Because you are my devotee. This is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. That means only the devotees can understand Bhagavad-gītā, and it is always existing, and because it is now lost... Just like we are putting Bhagavad-gītā, why am I stressing so much? It is lost. By the so-called Gandhis and Dr. Radhakrishnan, they have made it lost. Therefore we are stressing. The thing is there. We are simply trying to revive it again. It is not that it is the beginning. No. It is already there. But these rascals have made it lost. People do not understand it, do not follow it, that is the difficulty. So we are trying to revive it again. It is revival of the whole teaching. Permanent teaching. Permanent beneficial instruction. Now it is lost. Which way shall we go?

Morning Walk -- May 10, 1975, Perth:

Jayadharma: Does fortune mean it's the mercy of Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's mercy is always there. It is your misuse of free will. You are given the opportunity—that is fortune. But you do not accept the fortune. That is your misfortune. That is stated in the Caitanya-caritāmṛita. Lord Caitanya said, ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kona bhāgyavān jīva (CC Madhya 19.151). Kono—some fortunate man can accept it. Because mostly they are unfortunate. Just see, throughout the whole of Europe and America we are making propaganda. How many students have come? A very insignificant number, although they have come. They are fortunate.

Amogha: Sometimes we see that a devotee may be very sincere, but at the same time he becomes weak somehow, and he falls down.

Prabhupāda: Even if he falls down, still he is fortunate, because the injection is there. It will act, some day or another. Still he is fortunate. As fortunate man he took it, but he fell down. That does not mean he's unfortunate. Still he's fortunate, because the poison is already there. It will develop. That is called ajñāta sukṛti. Therefore he is not loser. He continues to be fortunate. It will take some time.

Morning Walk -- May 11, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes. I think it is... Maybe it is described in Seventeenth Chapter. According to our free will, we are associating with certain type of the modes of material nature, and then we become subjected to that material modes. The same example: you infect some disease, contamination, and you gain the result of it. So our endeavor should be how to raise ourself to the first, to the sattva-guṇa. That we can do. And then transcend sattva-guṇa and reach the spiritual platform. Everyone is trying to improve his position, but they do not know what is meant by improvement. Improvement means mostly they are in tamo-guṇa, ignorance. So rise from tamo-guṇa to rajo-guṇa, rajo-guṇa to sattva-guṇa, and then sattva-guṇa to transcendence. That is improvement. So generally, people are suffering on account of association with tamo-guṇa and rajo-guṇa, whole material world, mostly tamo-guṇa and few of them in rajo-guṇa. The symptoms of rajo-guṇa and tamo-guṇa are lust and greediness. Just like yesterday you told me the students are talking about homosex. That means tamo-guṇa, that the education-students, they are discussing about homosex. That means tamo-guṇa, lusty desires, very prominent, and how to fulfill, by homosex or sex with woman. This is their subject matter, kāma. So everyone in this material world infected with this tamo-guṇa, all lusty desires, in various ways, varieties. And some of them in rajo-guṇa-politics and improvement of material condition. So we have to cut down this tamo-guṇa and rajo-guṇa, come to the sattva-guṇa. Then he'll not be disturbed by these lusty desires and greediness. Then he'll be happy. Sthita-sattve prasīdati. When he comes to the sattva-guṇa, now he has to make further progress, sattva-guṇa. And the progress means, being situated in sattva-guṇa if he advances in devotional service, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he surpasses all the material qualities. That is perfection of life.

Morning Walk -- May 11, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: Is there a stage after a person becomes completely purified...?

Prabhupāda: The students, they are going to school, college, and they are talking of sex. Where is tapasya? How it is possible? So therefore bhakti-yoga is the only way of spiritual improvement in this age—all age, especially in this age. No other method will help you-yoga, karma, jñāna, nothing. Bhakti-yoga is always strong, especially in this age, Kali-yuga. Therefore it is said, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva, especially. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam, kalau nāsty eva... (CC Adi 17.21). This is the simplest. But people do not know what is the ultimate goal of life. They are so much in ignorance. They do not know what is spiritual life, what is ultimate goal. Simply like cats and dogs. The dog jumps over with four legs, and if a man can jump over with four wheels, then that is advance. Just see. They think, "Now we are advanced. We have got four-wheel car to jump over. And the dog is jumping with legs. Therefore this is advanced." They do not know this is also the same dog's business. They do not know it. (break) ...again they have made this car, coming from miles away, but the business is fishing. Just see. Bambhārambhe laghu-kriyā. "Advancement of civilization, we have got car, we are nicely dressed, we are human being, ev..." But what is your business? Fishing. Bambhārambhe... Ārambha, gorgeous arrangement—the business is the same. The skylark, what is called? Skylark? These birds?

Devotee (1): Oh, the seagulls. Seagull.

Prabhupāda: Oh, seagull. They are doing the same business, and after his much advancement of civilization, he is doing the same business. The tiger is also eating flesh and blood, and human being—a scientific slaughterhouse. The same business, but they have got scientific instrument how to cut the throat quickly. This is the advance, advancement of civilization. The dog and cat they are having sex on the open street, and now they are talking of homosex in the school, colleges for education. This is their position. They do not know even what is the standard of human civilization. If you are doing the same business like ordinary animals, then where is the advancement of civilization? Where they have gone by crossing here?

Devotee (2): I think they went up that path out there, Prabhupāda.

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, many times when I am seeing professors or students also, they seem to think that traditional Hinduism or whatever they think it is, they say that the Māyāvādī philosophy, or monist, they think this is traditional, and..., because there's so many translations of the Bhagavad-gītā and the Upaniṣads they've read, and they're all impersonal. So I was wondering what is the best way to convince them that actually, that is not actually the original tradition of understanding?

Prabhupāda: How they are becoming foolish, that they are reading Bhagavad-gītā and they are accepting original tradition of the Māyāvāda? In the original tradition of Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, Kṛṣṇa said, ahaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān: "I said. I am person." How these rascals are accepting imperson? Why do they read Bhagavad-gītā? If they have got different theory, let them differently... They are cheating. Bhagavad-gītā is popular. Therefore they are taking advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and pushing on impersonalism. But here the tradition begins, ahaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ. Where is imperson? So if they want to be cheated willingly, who can save them? They are reading Bhagavad-gītā and devīating from the words of Bhagavad-gītā. Then what is the meaning?

Amogha: They don't know. They simply...

Prabhupāda: That means they are so rascal, that... You are reading Bhagavad-gītā. You must take the words of Bhagavad-gītā. Why you are taking other words? What business you have got?

Morning Walk -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: Their whole idea of Indian history, of Vedic history, is completely perverted. When we say five thousand years ago Vyāsadeva compiled this in writing, they say, "There was no civilization five thousand..." They said, "Only two thousand years ago there was some tribes, and they were not very moral," and things like this, all completely nonsense, because they misread the Bhāgavata and things like this. And then they teach some of the students these crazy ideas. Not all of them, but I talked to some who teach like this.

Prabhupāda: The more you fight with these rascals, the more you advance in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You are a fighting soldier. Kṛṣṇa very much appreciates. (long pause) So you take Bhagavad-gītā by your own interpretation, and I take Bhagavad-gītā as it is. So who is right? Who will decide this? You interpret in your own way. I don't interpret. I take it as it is. Now we are two parties. So who is correct?

Amogha: They say because so many others...

Prabhupāda: No, no, there are two parties. That's all. Others means one who interprets, that is one party. And there is one party who does not interpret. So who is correct?

Amogha: They say, "We are right because we are more." They say, "We are many..."

Prabhupāda: Many asses means there is an opinion? Many asses give some opinion. Is that opinion?

Śrutakīrti: They say so.

Amogha: They say we are Ph.D., and there are so many swamis and things like this.

Prabhupāda: Oh, majority.

Morning Walk -- May 13, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: Even the coolies at the train station.

Prabhupāda: And by simply one daṇḍa, one is sannyāsī. This is all over the world. Mussulman, having a long beard, he is Mussulman. Mussuleḥ iman.(?) Musseleḥ means complete, and iman means honest. That is the meaning of Mussulman. Completely honest, completely devoted. Mussuleḥ iman. (long pause) We are not saying just "No sex." We don't say that. We simply say, "No illicit sex," and they do not like it. We don't say "No sex," but simply by saying, "No illicit sex," they don't like. Why? There is a Bengali song, "cakṣe yadi lage bhala kena dadimali" (?) "If I want to see something beautiful, why shall I not see?" That is pravṛtti. "I want to do it. I like to do it. Why should you say, 'No'?" This is the position. "I like to do it. I must do it." This is called pravṛtti (long pause) "I like to interpret Bhagavad-gītā in this way. Why should you say no?" This is going on. (break) The school students, college students, "I like to copy. Why shall I repress(?) ?" This is education. Here also they copy?

Amogha: You mean cheating?

Prabhupāda: No, no, copying in examination?

Amogha: Oh, yes. Well, what they do is someone sneaks the exam answers out before, and they sell the answers to the questions before the test.

Prabhupāda: Just see. Here it is more advanced.

Amogha: Yes. Very scientific. Sometimes they get caught, it's in the newspapers.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Amogha: Sometimes they are caught by the authorities and it comes in the newspapers, and there's a big scandal because all the students are buying the answers to the questions.

Prabhupāda: Just see. The main point is how to get some money. So the teachers are also dishonest.

Room Conversation with Alcohol and Drug Hospital People -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: So you can send all these alcohol and drug patients here and they will be cured. These boys, American and European boys, they were all addicted to alcohol, drugs. Now they have given up. Practical.

Guest (1): In what way would they cure?

Prabhupāda: Simply I say that "If you want to be my student, then you must give up four things: illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication, and gambling." This is my condition. So they give up, and they become my student.

Guest (2): Do they suffer withdrawal symptoms?

Paramahaṁsa: He says, "Do they suffer withdrawal symptoms?" Sometimes when a patient is giving up alcohol or drugs, he goes through various symptoms which are painful.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That should be... But unless... Find out this, paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate. Rasa-varjaṁ raso 'py asya paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate (BG 2.59).

Devotee (2): "The embodied soul may be restricted from sense enjoyment, though the taste for sense objects remains. But, ceasing such engagements by experiencing a higher taste, he is fixed in consciousness."

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Room Conversation with Alcohol and Drug Hospital People -- May 16, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: He says, "Are there cases of..., which relapse? Persons who begin to withdraw from drugs...?"

Prabhupāda: Maybe one in five hundred.

Guest (2): One in five hundred.

Prabhupāda: There is. Everyone is prone to fall down. But that percentage is very low, say, one in five hundred. We have got about ten thousand students all over the world. Out of them, they have fallen about ten or, say, fifteen, that's all.

Guest (2): You means you have ten thousand students who used to be addicted to something?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Addicted to everything—illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication, and gambling. And now they have given up everything.

Guest (2): And those who relapse, can they be treated again?

Prabhupāda: Again?

Paramahaṁsa: Those who have relapsed, can they be treated again?

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes, that I say. Say, utmost, ten out of ten thousand.

Room Conversation with Journalist -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes. The skyscraper is not impediment, it is not impediment. If you remain in the skyscraper and develop your spiritual consciousness, you can do that. But the unfortunate thing is that we are too much absorbed in constructing the skyscraper building, forgetting our real business. That is the defect.

Journalist: What about sex and drugs, sex and alcohol.

Prabhupāda: Sex, yes, alcohol, we condemn any kind of intoxication, all our students are forbidden illicit sex. We don't say, "No sex," but "illicit sex," we forbid. Similarly we forbid meat-eating. We don't say that "Don't eat," we simply say that "don't eat meat." You can eat other things, just like we are eating so many nice things.

Journalist: Why not meat?

Prabhupāda: Because it is sinful, you are killing all animals. Your Christian religion says, "Thou shalt not kill." Why you are killing?

Journalist: Yes. How many followers do you have throughout the world now?

Prabhupāda: No, throughout the world, in India everyone is Kṛṣṇa conscious. In the outside India we have got about ten to twelve thousand dedicated followers.

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: In Calcutta. I was educated in a college. My professors were all Europeans.

Dr Copeland: Which college?

Prabhupāda: Scottish Churches' College. You know that? In our time Dr. Watt, he was principal. And I was student of philosophy of Dr. W. S. Urquhart. He was my professor. And our English professor was Mr. Cameron,(?) Mr. Scrimgeour, Mr. Warren. And I was student of economics also. One Mr. Keith, he was also... All our professors were Scotsmen, Englishmen.

Dr. Copeland: And after you left the college, were you employed?

Prabhupāda: Yes, I was appointed manager of a very big laboratory, Dr. Bose's laboratory.

Dr. Copeland: Ah, yes.

Prabhupāda: You know?

Dr. Copeland: I've heard of it. From another worker. While you were in the college or afterwards, did you participate in any political movements?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I joined this Gandhi's.

Room Conversation with Dr. Copeland, Professor of Modern Indian History -- May 20, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That—because you are student of history-Mahatma Gandhi's photograph with Gītā. Did he speak anything about Gītā or Kṛṣṇa in the history of his life? Then how he is mahātmā?

Dr. Copeland: People called him that.

Prabhupāda: People call, that is another thing. That is the defect of the modern civilization, that vox populi. The people may be asses; still, their votes are accepted. The people are trained up as the fourth-class, fifth-class men, and their votes are appre... This is the defect of the modern... They are not trained up as first-class men, and still, their votes are accepted. Therefore, even a very advanced country, America, there was mistake, Nixon. They elected him president. Then they dragged him down. That is the mistake. Yes.

Dr. Copeland: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: They did not elect a first-class man, and later on, they could understand. So everywhere it is going on. Vox populi, the people, are less intelligent. They do not know whom to vote. And besides that, votes can be purchased. They do purchase by paying according to the country. So what is the value of this vote?

Dr. Copeland: Um, when...

Prabhupāda: Now, what is your opinion? A third-class, fourth-class man, if they vote, do you think it has any meaning?

Dr. Copeland: Well, I don't define the people first, second, third, and fourth class like you do, obviously.

Prabhupāda: You don't find? You don't find first person...?

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: ...defect of the Western country is practically there is no social structure. The father, mother, they divorce, and the children become careless. Most cases this is the defect.

Director: Happens, yes.

Prabhupāda: I have seen many of my students, their family, whole family disrupt on account of father and mother, even in old age, divorce. I have seen Brahmānanda's mother. His father was very... still living. Very good businessman, very nice family, good income. All of a sudden the father and mother disagreed, they divorce. The sons were somewhere; the daughters were somewhere.

Director: That's cases we deal with. Adoption, and...

Prabhupāda: And the father married again, the mother married again. They were not happy, and the business also closed. So by one instance I can understand that how in the Western countries people become out of social structure. The root cause is godlessness. Root cause.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Sanctioning. They are allowing homosex. And there was report that man and man was married by the priest. In New York there is a paper, Watchtower. That is a Christian paper. I have seen in that paper. They are condemning it, that priest is allowing man-to-man marriage. And they are passing resolution, homosex is passed, "All right." And in Perth you said that the students are discussing about homosex, in favor of homosex. So where is the ideal character? If you want something tangible business, train some people to become ideal character. That is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Director: What you people say what ideal to you is not ideal to somebody else?

Prabhupāda: I am giving the example ideal character.

Director: Yeah, but that's one opinion.

Prabhupāda: No. It will not depend on opinion. Opinion... What is the value of opinion if the people are all asses? There is no opinion. One should take as it is enjoined in the śāstra. No opinion. What is the use of taking opinion of an ass? So the people are trained up just like dogs and asses, then what is the use of their opinion? If you are to enforce, you must do like this. Just like when we introduced this "No illicit sex." I never cared for their opinion. The opinion... immediately there will be discussion. And what is the use of taking their opinion? It must be done. That is the defect of Western civilization. Vox populi, taking opinion of the public. But what is the value of this public? Drunkards, smokers, meat-eaters, woman-hunters. What is the... they are not first-class men. So what is the use of such third-class, fourth-class men's opinion? We do not advocate such opinion. What Kṛṣṇa said, that is standard, that's all. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme, and His version is final.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Director: But how do we reconcile the fact that our doctors tell us we should eat meat because of the protein?

Prabhupāda: That is a foolishness. They are not eating meat for the last ten years. Do you think they are reduced in their health? Rather people say bright faces. In Boston one priest, I was going from Los Angeles to Hawaii. One gentleman in plain dress, he is a priest, he said, "Swamiji, how your students look so bright?" And sometimes we are advertised as bright faces. In Boston or somewhere the ladies were asking, "Are you American?"

Director: How would you react if somebody breaks into this place and tries to rob some of the...

Madhudviṣa: He says "How would we react if someone breaks in and tries to rob the building?"

Prabhupāda: Rob?

Madhudviṣa: A thief. What would we do if a thief came in? In other words, would we be violent?

Prabhupāda: If a thief came in we shall punish him.

Director: You should be violent?

Prabhupāda: Why not? A thief should be punished.

Director: You would punish yourself? What would you do? Would you start attacking him?

Prabhupāda: No, ourself or anyone, a thief is to be punished. A thief has to be punished. Ourself or yourself, it doesn't matter. A thief is thief. He should be punished.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Madhudviṣa: ...who are here, they would like to have your association, (laughter) more personal association.

Prabhupāda: I also like. (laughter) Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo yasyāprasādān na gatiḥ kuto 'pi **. This is essential, to be anxious to be associated with the spiritual master. Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). That is the statement of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. By the mercy of Kṛṣṇa one comes in touch with the bona fide spiritual master, and by the mercy of spiritual master, one gets Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa is in everyone's heart. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānām (BG 18.61). Kṛṣṇa can understand what we want. So when we sincerely want Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa sends His representative, guru. Guru is outside representative of Kṛṣṇa. So to the sincere student, Kṛṣṇa teaches from inside and outside. That is the way, so that he becomes quickly fit for going back to home, back to Godhead. So this behavior, to be attached to spiritual master, is a good qualification. Yasya prasādāt, by his mercy, Kṛṣṇa becomes merciful. By Kṛṣṇa's mercy, one gets spiritual master, and by the spiritual master's mercy, one gets the mercy of Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Guest 1: He's medium sized.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is making the theory that life has come from chemicals by chemical combination, chemical evolution. Darwin's theory is also of that. This is their... Big, big scientists, they are so fool that life has come from matter. Where is the proof? He was lecturing in California University, and there was one student. He is my disciple. He challenged him that "If you get the chemicals, whether you can manufacture life?" That answer was, "That I cannot say." Why? You are putting this theory, that life has come from chemicals. So science means observation and experiment. Now experimentally prove that the chemicals have produced a life.

Guest 1: They're trying. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. When you are trying to be a lawyer or barrister, that does not mean you are barrister. When you are a student of law you cannot say that "I am barrister," or "advocate," that you cannot say. You are trying to be, that is another thing. But while they are trying to be, they are taking the position of leader. That is the misleading. That is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). "One blind man is trying to lead many other blind men." What is the use of such leading? If the leader is blind, how he will do well to other blind men?

Guest 3: Beethoven was deaf.

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Ambarīṣa: "So they will understand."

Prabhupāda: Ah, "the parents who will understand them." My students, mostly they are young, mostly within thirty, some of them little above thirty. So some of their parents they come and congratulate me, "Swamiji, it is our great fortune that you have come to our country." That I receive many. But there are other many parents, they are not happy.

Yogi Bhajan: We are starting a parent organization for our kids. We invite the mothers, parents, ask them to stay, and send them back. Idea is basic, and the fundamental idea is: what you are doing is God's will, these people who are following you is God's will, and those who will receive it as God's will... But it is not that everybody sees that God will.

Prabhupāda: No. God's will is open. Kṛṣṇa says, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65). God says that "You always think of Me. You just become My devotee, worship Me, and offer your respect to Me." This is God's will. "And if you do this, then you are coming back to Me." It is clearly said. God's will is declared. There is no secret. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad... Find out this ninth verse, er, Ninth Chapter. Yes.

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Yogi Bhajan: Um hm. That's true.

Prabhupāda: So that's all right. The followers may think of Him. Man-manā. "You become My devotee, become My devotee and worship Me and offer respect to Me," that's all. So we are teaching our student, "Here is God, Kṛṣṇa. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, always think of Him. You just offer your respect and worship Him. In this way become His devotee." We do not... Spiritually, thing is (?) (indistinct) That's all right. And they are doing that and they are getting the result. We do not say that "Sit down, press your nose, and meditate and this, that," or, no. Simple thing. There is God, we have got our temple... (Aside:) Don't make now this sort of thing.... Simple thing. We have got our temple. We say that "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Here is God. And think of Him." As soon as you chant "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa..." Everyone has got the beads. That means you are thinking of Kṛṣṇa, man-manā. And then we are offering respect, go to the temple and offer our obeisance, very simple thing. So we accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So if you don't accept, then you must have your own God. Do that. But the followers of Vedic principle, they will accept Kṛṣṇa the Supreme Lord. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). I think somebody was telling me that Guru Nanak also accepted Kṛṣṇa as the supreme father. Is it a fact? I do not know.

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Yogi Bhajan: That doesn't solve the problem of the world.

Prabhupāda: No, first of all, if we know, "Here is God," then it will solve the problem. But if we do not accept... If I... I can hear from you, provided I know that you are some big man. Otherwise how shall I agree to hear from you? The obedience must be there. A student, a small child, hears the teacher because he knows that "My teacher is very great."

Yogi Bhajan: No, we may try to become limited or unlimited. Question is very simple. There are four billion people on this earth and...

Prabhupāda: And therefore they are not expected to understand, four billion. They should follow the leader. It is not expected that...

Yogi Bhajan: That is what we are trying to do. We are going to get the leaders together.

Prabhupāda: That leaders... the leaders are already there. Now, suppose Guru Nanak says "Kṛṣṇa is God," so will the Sikhs follow Guru Nanak or their own whims?

Yogi Bhajan: No, no, Sikh will follow the instructions...

Prabhupāda: Of Guru Nanak.

Yogi Bhajan: ...Guru Nanak.

Prabhupāda: The Guru Nanak says Kṛṣṇa is God.

Morning Walk -- June 16, 1975, Honolulu:

Harikeśa: The Germans also had the idea that this universe is encaged in some hard layers. And they were trying to bounce waves off of the edge of the universe.

Prabhupāda: No, the Germans, they very much praised Indian culture. That my godbrother Soulier, when he came to India he said that "When Indian students come to our country, first of all we inquire how much he has got asset of his own culture. If we find that he has got some knowledge in his own culture, then we receive. Otherwise we reject." As soon as they found that somebody is made of London culture, then immediately they reject. There are many Sanskrit scholars in Germany.

Harikeśa: All of the good dictionaries are from Germany.

Prabhupāda: No, Max Mueller was German.

Harikeśa: A lot of the devotees have been wondering about book production if there is some war.

Prabhupāda: War? The war will be for a few days only.

Bali-mardana: Then the presses can go on.

Prabhupāda: This war will not prolong. That is not possible.

Morning Walks -- June 18-19, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: I have seen in the Hawaii University, all hippies.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. In Hawaii it's very loose. For instance, even the high schools, they're mostly very loose. But when, after it gets too loose, then the students go so much into sense gratification that then there becomes... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...solution, they will not take it.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes, because it would mean they would have... (break)

Prabhupāda: He is very intelligent.

Siddha-svarūpa: He speaks straight from his heart so you can... (break) ...that Yogi Bhajan's philosophy though. He wants everybody to come to the... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...is responsible for the mistake of the followers.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. So now he must have many leaflets printed up with this information about the prime minister's guru. But now it's out of date. It will be out of date. He will have to print new thing.

Prabhupāda: He was distributing leaflet like that?

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes, literature inviting people, you know, about the conference. (break) Is Cāṇakya Paṇḍita widely available in India?

Prabhupāda: That is not very important thing. It has nothing to do with spiritual..., but moral instruction.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Gerson: I've noticed changes just in the few months that I've been among the devotees, in myself, and they've been in that direction, and it's a very nice feeling to be able to feel, at least in small part, into the spiritual world.

Prabhupāda: The Vedic civilization, therefore, teaches the student, brahmacārī, how to remain without sex life. Those who are unable to continue that, they are allowed, "All right, be married life." And that is also for twenty-five years. A student remains brahmacārī up to twenty-five years, and if we wants to take this sex license-household life means sex life—so he can get the license for twenty-five years more. So at the age of fifty years, fiftieth year, he gives up voluntarily. He keeps his wife with him just to assist him to advance in spiritual life, and they go from one holy place to another. And then when they are practiced, then the woman is sent to his elderly sons to take care and the man takes sannyāsa. This is Vedic civilization, varṇāśrama, four varṇas and four āśramas: the brāhmaṇas, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra... And the sannyāsa is especially meant for the brāhmaṇas, not the kṣatriyas or the vaiśyas because they are not very much advanced. But the brāhmaṇa is advanced from the very beginning. Therefore sannyāsa is for the brāhmaṇa. The system that without being a brāhmaṇa nobody can take sannyāsa. So I am criticized by others in India that I am giving sannyāsa to them. Of course, according to the principle, they are not fit for sannyāsa, but because Caitanya Mahāprabhu also took sannyāsa at the age of twenty-four years... Śaṅkarācārya took sannyāsa at the age of eight years. He lived only for thirty-two years, Caitanya Mahāprabhu lived for forty-eight years. So for ordinary man, sannyāsa is difficult. But for preaching work, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's footprints we are trying to follow.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: I have seen children, on the street they are smoking. I was surprised. When I came in America I saw small children, they were smoking.

Revatīnandana: One devotee boy, a young boy in Laguna Beach, was telling me that in his school, when he was in high school in Las Vegas, even in the classroom the fifteen, sixteen year old students were smoking marijuana in the classroom of the school.

Prabhupāda: In New York University, I think Brahmānanda?

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: The students were smoking.

Brahmānanda: You were the first one to say, "Please stop smoking. Otherwise I will not speak." They were shocked. They were stunned at such a request.

Prabhupāda: So what is the psychology of this? They cannot stop smoking. And smoking is admitted, "It is injurious." So how you will do benefit? If you cannot stop the stop the student from smoking, then how you will do him benefit? You know that smoking is bad. So even if you study from psychological point of view and if you cannot rectify the wrong thing, then what is the use of studying? You cannot stop it. So find out the means how to stop it, and that means is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Gerson: I've started with myself. My patients are not allowed to smoke in my office.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But these general, the students... You are going to study our students, but you see they are not smoking. Why don't you see...? (break)

Dharmādhyakṣa: ...making other people starve by eating so much meat so in the future the other countries might force us to stop eating meat so that we can use the grain to feed people. So actually materially, economically, socially, in every way it is very bad. They are realizing now.

Prabhupāda: And they will say that because they are not eating meat, they are weak in health.

Dharmādhyakṣa: But their children are not chanting and dancing. You see? In their schools... When people come here and they see the young children chanting and dancing and so energetic, they say, "Where are these children getting their energy?"

Prabhupāda: That is real study.

Morning Walk -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh. So let him help that our center be affiliated.

Bahulāśva: Yes. We were thinking if it was, if it pleased Your Divine Grace, maybe he could teach one class in his book, and we can have some students come there.

Prabhupāda: That will be very nice.

Bahulāśva: That would be all right?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Dharmādhyakṣa: There's this one psychologist. He comes every week to study Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and he plays some of the bhajana tapes in his office. And there's twenty doctors in his office, and he plays it so all the doctors can hear. And they all come in and ask him, "What is that wonderful music?" He says, "Oh, this is from the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement." He says, "No, that can't be from the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. They just chant and dance on the street the same thing." He says, "No, no, no, this is the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement." They are very, very pleased. He gives all his patients mantra cards and tells them, "You should go to the temple. This will really help you." (break)

Prabhupāda: This is nudie beach?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The nude beach.

Revatīnandana: It used to be.

Bahulāśva: ...on one side

Revatīnandana: At one time they made it legal to be nude here, and then later on, they repealed the law again.

Jayatīrtha: Venice? It is still nude, Venice Beach.

Revatīnandana: Is it still? Really.

Jayatīrtha: You can either come wearing clothes or not wearing clothes to this beach.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Lucky we come early.

Sudāmā: Just like the monkeys.

Revatīnandana: Oh, it was in Laguna that they repealed it.

Prabhupāda: But why, then, the lavatory they have made distinction for woman and for men?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now in the colleges there's no more distinction.

Jayatīrtha: Co-educational bathrooms.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One bathroom. One residence, one bathroom...

Revatīnandana: The boys and girls live in the same residence on the same floors and use the same bathrooms. Practically there is no restriction on the association. They're not married.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Congress just passed a law that the health education, means the gym, gymnastic classes... Every day there's physical education class?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dharmādhyakṣa: ...the colleges and high schools now that the teachers appreciate the philosophy much more than the students. They have more brain substance, and it's even a possibility many of them will actually become devotees if they have more association because devotees are practically the only intelligent people that they ever get to talk to. Even the other members of the faculty, they are not so intelligent to talk to them. But we went to see one philosopher. He's written seventeen books and he's a distinguished professor of philosophy. We talked to him for three hours, a very famous... His books are used all over the country. He said, "My philosophy is closest to this Hare Kṛṣṇa philosophy, after you've explained it to me." He will be coming back. He's going on tour. He's retiring. We're also going to try to get him to come to Berkeley.

Revatīnandana: Is that the one at Pomona College?

Dharmādhyakṣa: No, this is another one at U.S.C., University of Southern California.

Prabhupāda: So some professors wanted to see me?

Jayatīrtha: Yes. In fact, one is coming over this afternoon.

Brahmānanda: Today two are coming.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Actually at the University of Southern California around three or four members of the religion department want to come, including the chairman.

Prabhupāda: So let them come. (break)

Bahulāśva: ...yesterday that Indian gentleman, Dr. Singh? He had become very doubtful when you told him they didn't go to the moon. He was saying, "Do you think they really didn't go?" (laughter) He never thought of that before, that they might have just made a show.

Prabhupāda: No. If we believe in our Bhāgavata, they have not gone. It is above the sun planet, 1,600,000 miles above. How they can go?

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Regulative principle is the groundwork foundation of everything. Academic career has nothing to do with it. (break) ...bhaktasya kuto mahad guṇā. Anyone who is not factual devotee, his good qualification, academic qualification, has no value.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Many of the students at the Graduate Theological Union, they might want to come to our college to take just one or two courses. Would it be all right for them to do that?

Prabhupāda: No, everyone is welcome. But they must see what is our ideal. Then one day they will also come. So our ideal should be always there, not that we make some compromise. Then it will not be effective.

Dharmādhyakṣa: In the catalogue we say that to get a degree one must be following the regulative principles, that that is as much an important requirement as the study, academic study.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is very important thing. Otherwise, just like in India, there are caste brāhmaṇas, but they have no ideal, and therefore it is not working.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Sattva-guṇa, goodness. In that platform one can understand very quickly. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is little successful because we are trying to bring the students on the platform of goodness. Therefore it is becoming little successful. If you keep them in the platform of ignorance and passion, then it will be difficult.

Dharmādhyakṣa:

naṣṭa-prāyeṣv abhadreṣu
nityaṁ bhāgavata-sevayā
bhagavaty uttama-śloke
bhaktir bhavati naiṣṭhikī
(SB 1.2.18)

Translation: By regular attendance in classes on the Bhāgavatam and by rendering of service to the pure devotee, all that is troublesome to the heart is almost completely destroyed, and loving service unto the Personality of Godhead, who is praised with transcendental songs, is established as an irrevocable fact.

Purport: Here is the remedy for eliminating all inauspicious things within the heart which are considered to be obstacles in the path of self-realization. The remedy is the association of the Bhāgavatas. There are two types of Bhāgavatas, namely the book Bhāgavata and the devotee Bhāgavata. Both the Bhāgavatas are competent remedies, and both of them or either of them can be good enough to eliminate the obstacles. A devotee Bhāgavata is as good as the book Bhāgavata because the devotee Bhāgavata leads his life in terms of the book Bhāgavata and the book Bhāgavata is full of information about the Personality of Godhead and His pure devotees, who are also Bhāgavatas. Bhāgavata book and person are identical.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa created these four division, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, but He does not belong to any one of them. He is neither brāhmaṇa nor kṣatriya nor vaiśya nor śūdra. He is transcendental. Similarly, our philosophy—just to make the human society very peaceful and making progress we wish to establish this system. A first-class man, group of men, brāhmaṇas, they will guide the kṣatriyas, and the kṣatriyas, the administrators, they will guide the vaiśya. Vaiśya means agriculture and cow protection and trade. And śūdra means those who are neither brāhmaṇa nor kṣatriya nor vaiśyas. They are simply worker, assistant. So there must be division like this. The brāhmaṇas should guide the kṣatriyas, and the kṣatriyas will administer the state, and the vaiśyas will produce foodstuff, and śūdras will help. Cooperation for common benefit. But the aim is spiritual realization. That is perfect society. If everyone is śūdra, without any aim of life, then there will be chaos. Just like in your country, in spite of so much facility for education, the students are produced hippies, useless for all purposes. Why? I have gone to so many universities. I have seen the students, hippies. And if you say that "If you act like cats and dogs, you will become dog next life," they say, "What is the wrong if I become a dog?" (laughter) This is education. He is prepared to become a dog. He does not know what is the distinction between dog and human being. He is seeking after the dog's facility that he can have sex on the street. He is thinking the dog life is advantageous. This is the position. Therefore Professor Judah has written me this letter, that "I am simply surprised how you have converted the drug-addicted hippies into servant of Kṛṣṇa and the humanity." This is his words.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: By taking lesson from professors who has mind clear. Why the students are coming to you? Because his mind is not clear. You have to clear his mind by teaching him psychology, feeling, thinking, feeling, willing. Therefore he has to come to a learned man who knows how to understand mind, how to understand the activities of the mind, how to deal with them. That requires education. A dog cannot take this education, but a human being can take. Therefore it is the duty of the human being, how to control the mind, not act like cats and dogs. That is human being. He should be inquisitive, "Why this happening? Why this happening?" and he should take education. That is human life. And if he does not inquire, if he does not take education, then what is the difference between him and the dog? He remains a dog. He has got this opportunity of human life. He should take advantage of understanding what is what, not to keep himself in the dog status, simply eating, sleeping, sex life, and defending. That is the distinction between dog and human being. If he does not become inquisitive how to control the mind, he is not even a human being. A dog never inquires. A dog knows that "When I bark, people become disturbed." He'll never ask, "How to control this barking habit?" Because he is dog, he cannot do that. A human being can know that "People hates me. I do something wrong. How to control my mind?" That is human being. That is the difference between human being and dog. Therefore Vedic injunction is "Go and inquire. You have got this human form of life." Athāto brahma jijñāsā: "Now, this is the time for inquiring about the soul." Tad vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). If you want to understand this science, then go to proper guru and take lessons from him. The same thing, as we instruct our children: "If you want to be educated in higher status of life, go to school, go to college, take lesson." That is human society. The dog's father will never ask the dog child, "Go to school." No. They are dogs.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva: Śrīla Prabhupāda, did you speak about Kant's philosophy in that book also? Yes? He is very popular.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kant is very popular. I was also a student of philosophy. In my student life my professors were all Europeans. I was student of Scottish Church's College in Calcutta. So one professor, Dr. W.S. Urquhart, he was our professor for psychology, metaphysics. Later on, he became the vice-chancellor of Calcutta University. A very nice gentleman.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Dr. Mize finds that he's chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa a little in the shower now. When he takes a shower, he chants a little.

Prabhupāda: One press reporter in the Berkeley University in the beginning, he wrote his article and he wrote that after hearing this Hare Kṛṣṇa for a few minutes, I came home chanting all the road, "Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa." He gave this report.

Garden Conversation with Professors -- June 24, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Judah: If God is known by many different names, though, is it not possible, then, to know God then in many different ways, in many different traditions?

Prabhupāda: No. Just like you are the same person, either as professor in the university or at home before your wife, you are the same person. Your wife may address you in a different name, and the students may address you in different name, but you are the same person.

Dr. Judah: It's true.

Prabhupāda: If the person is the same, so difference of name does not change the circumstances.

Dr. Wolfe: But there are many aspects of God, of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then the aspect... The aspects have been summarized that God is realized in three aspects, brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate: (SB 1.2.11) impersonal Brahman, localized Paramātmā, and Personality of Godhead. Just like the sun. The sunshine is also sun, but you cannot say that you are in sun. Can you say that? But you are sunshine. The sunshine is not different from the sun. Similarly, in the Absolute Truth the first realization is Brahman, and the next realization is Paramātmā, and the ultimate realization is Bhagavān. The subject matter is the same. But according to the degree of advancement, the realization is partial. The subject matter is the same. Now you can study the sunshine, but it is not in your power to go to the sun planet and study what is actually sun. But because it is not in your power, it does not mean that sun planet is less. You cannot go there; it is not in your power. You can simply study the sunshine. But that does not mean the sun globe is false or there is no subject matter of study. You cannot go there.

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: If the God dies and ordinary animal also dies...

Dr. Judah: Yes, it was what they called "atheistic Christianity." (laughter) But as I say, I do not feel that this is representative of Christianity today. And I think that the very fact that this "death of God theology" did become so popular at one particular period is one of the particular reasons why more people have wanted, then have rejected this and have wanted to find some experience of God, find it in their lives to prove, as it were, that He does exist. I think this has been certainly one of the instruments that has caused people to try to seek the reality of God in various ways. In Sufism, I know, in Berkeley they're seeking God, and in the Vedānta and in many other of the different movements, some of them from India and some of them from Japan, particularly in the case of Zen Buddhism which has become very popular. And then, of course, there's always the Sokagaktii(?) in the Bay area which also is very influential among many of the university students, and which, of course, does chanting also. It's a form of bhakti in Buddhism.

Prabhupāda: Actually, nobody has got clear idea of God. This is the difficulty. Nobody knows. We can challenge them. Nobody knows what is God. We can challenge. (break) (in car)

Dr. Judah: ...o'clock this morning.

Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone rises at three o'clock.

Morning Walk -- June 26, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...of God means first of all we must know who is God. This is the first. Then, what is this material world and what is my relationship with this material world and God. This is science of God. (break)

Bahulāśva: ...you wanted the colleges named the Vedic Theological College?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hm. Don't come very near. (break) ...that the college teachers and students must be brāhmaṇa, not śūdras. Śūdras will not be able to understand the science of God. What was the... Now, Dr... What is his name?

Bahulāśva: Last night?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bahulāśva: Dr. Mize.

Prabhupāda: Dr. Mize? So what does he say?

Bahulāśva: He said that he could give up the greed, but the lust was a very hard one for him to give up.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes.

Room Conversation -- June 26, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Then let them follow. That's a good life. But from external features he must be a Vaiṣṇava.

Devotee (2): To get second initiation.

Devotee (1): Does that mean shaved head?

Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when His students used to come without tilaka, so He refused to see his face. He refused to see his face. He said it is a crematory ground.

Devotee (2): Why is that?

Prabhupāda: There is no "why." If you accept it, accept. If you don't accept, leave us, leave us. There is no "why."

Devotee (2): Then that is...

Prabhupāda: You are not following strictly. You cannot ask why.

Devotee (2): We could not ask why when we were following strictly either, Prabhupāda. So I'm sorry that it has to be this way.

Prabhupāda: No, our thing is that we have got some principles. If anyone cannot follow, then we don't accept him.

Room Conversation -- June 26, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Then there is no answer. I cannot attend so many things.

Devotee (2): We are not so many.

Devotee (1): But these are the same questions which we have talked over with Revatīnandana Swami and Jayatīrtha. A great many...

Prabhupāda: If my disciples, advanced students, cannot answer, then I am sorry. I cannot answer. I cannot answer.

Devotee (2): That we did not know. That we did not know.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now you know it. I have appointed so many GBCs because to help me. It is not possible to see everyone, individual. This is not...

Devotee (1): But these are the same questions which they themselves are posing to you.

Revatīnandana: I have never met any other people who asked questions on the level that they are asking questions. I cannot answer many of their questions. I have studied all your books.

Prabhupāda: I cannot. If you cannot, I cannot also. Because you have been taught by me, if you cannot, then it is...

Room Conversation -- June 26, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So what can I do? I say that whatever I have got experience, I am explaining in my books. I have explained. So it is not possible for me to answer every individual person. It is not possible.

Devotee (2): We respect that. We understand. It is just that because they are saying these things...

Prabhupāda: I have got my advanced students. They can answer. If they are unable, answer, if you do not find answer from my books, then it is hopeless.

Devotee (1): Ah! But your advanced students are saying if they give an answer that because they have been appointed by you, therefore their answer is perfectly correct, because, absolutely correct on all things in the relative world because, they have been appointed by you, and because you know...

Prabhupāda: You may... That's all right. If you don't believe them, you can finish business.

Devotee (2): But are they correct? That's what we want to know.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are correct.

Morning Walk -- June 27, 1975, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva: They're going crazy now in this country, Prabhupāda. Men are having operations to become like women.

Prabhupāda: Yes, there is a student here? (laughter)

Bahulāśva: He's in San Francisco. Or she's in San Francisco.

Prabhupāda: Why not woman become man? Then that will be nice. Manpower will increase. Because every country the population of woman is bigger than the man. So if a woman can be made into man, then manpower will increase.

Jayādvaita: Then the women will decrease.

Prabhupāda: No, there is no question of decrease. They are already increased. They will be equal quantity. (break) ...is there, therefore the dogs are not there. Dogs? Best friend, dogs, are not there today because the policeman is there.

Morning Walk -- June 29, 1975, Denver:

Yadubara: Actually, we're more active than ever before.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are rich man's son, Kṛṣṇa's son. Why shall I work? That is the nature. A rich man's son never works. He enjoys. We are dancing and taking nice prasādam. Why shall I work? What do you think? Poor man will work. Rich man, why they will work? He will enjoy. Kṛṣṇa says, bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). He is the proprietor of all planets, and we are servants of Kṛṣṇa, a rich man's servant. Why shall I work so hard? The ass will work hard, not a human being. And that is the instruction of Rsabhādeva. Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye (SB 5.5.1). This human life is not meant for working so hard simply for food and sex enjoyment. That is the business of the hogs. The hogs do like that. They work day and night to find out some stool, and as soon as a little strength, he enjoys sex without discrimination, mother, sister, anybody. Is that life? Tell them, "You are working like hogs, and we are living like human being. That is the difference." If somebody does not work like hog, does it mean he is escaping? (laughter) Just see. And the hog is asking to work like hog. Why human being will accept this proposal? Marshall theory. I was student of economics. He says the human nature is, unless he has got some obligation he will not work. That is the beginning of economics. If one has got sufficient to eat, he will not work. When he is obliged to work for some reason, he works hard. That is the economic theory. So nature is... It is not escaping. If I have got sufficient to eat, why shall I work? What is the answer? This is not escaping, it is comfortable life, not to work and get everything, all necessities. That is comfort. And working hard getting the necessities, that is for the hogs and dogs, not for human being.

Morning Walk -- June 30, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: Nārada Muni was cursed, accepted one curse. And Dakṣa-rāja said that "I curse you that you will stay anywhere." So he said, "Yes, that is very good for me." (laughs) He could curse, counter, but he accepted, "Yes, it is a very good curse. I shall not stay anywhere." "You have spoiled my children to become mendicant, go back to home, back to Godhead. They did not enjoy this material world. You are so heinous," like that. Our students' parents, they are also thinking, "What is this nonsense, no meat-eating, no illicit sex? The enjoyment of life, everything is spoiled. They are becoming sannyāsī." So they are cursing me.

Satsvarūpa: They say you must have hypnotized us to give this up.

Prabhupāda: Dr. Judah, what is that, charmistic?

Brahmānanda: Charismic.

Prabhupāda: Charismatic.

Brahmānanda: Charismatic, yes.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) He also said. Yes, they are thinking it is hypnotism. "All young men, their life is for this material enjoyment, and they are giving up everything and chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa? What is this?"

Brahmānanda: In Māyāpur there is one astrologer and he...

Prabhupāda: Who is that astro...?

Brahmānanda: I don't know his name. He lives in..., across, on the other side there, where the bank is.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Bamanpukur.

Morning Walk -- June 30, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: His parents sponsored him.

Brahmānanda: Yes. From Long Island, Rock of..., Far Rockaway, Jewish area? (break)

Prabhupāda: ...did not come? That student?

Brahmānanda: I think he was afraid to come and see his parents and come back to America.

Harikeśa: He told me in Vṛndāvana that sometimes Bon Mahārāja is "a little too far out." His disciple said this.

Prabhupāda: None of his disciples living with him.

Brahmānanda: Yeah, he also said that. He said "It is too difficult to live with my guru. I must live apart." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the Christian meeting, where it was?

Satsvarūpa: In Toronto, different professors.

Prabhupāda: What was the subject?

Satsvarūpa: Just world religions with representatives from different religions. Each would speak on their understanding. They asked him what is Kṛṣṇa consciousness or Gauḍīya Vaisnavism.

Prabhupāda: And who asked for the Absolute Truth, that...?

Satsvarūpa: Uttamaśloka dāsa.

Prabhupāda: Hmm. So, they avoided.

Morning Walk -- June 30, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: Jugglery.

Satsvarūpa: Yes. Very intellectual description of the psychology. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...result of that meeting?

Satsvarūpa: No result.

Prabhupāda: Simply talking? (break) ...come to take some students to his institution.

Satsvarūpa: Something like that.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: After he speaks, he speaks about his institution.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because the institution is now closed. So he thought that he would bring some student from America. (break) He is also one of the, what is called, trustees of the... So he has said to Bon Mahārāja "You better hand it over to Bhaktivedanta Swami. You cannot do it." (break)

Bhāvānanda: ...is intelligent.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He is businessman. Picking up the... (break) ...in Hong Kong, they are picking up some food from this garbage.

Morning Walk -- June 30, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...you meet Bon Mahārāja, and if he talks again time, say, "You were sent in London for establishing a temple, why you could not do it? You remained there for three, four years. And why you were called back by Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī? What did you do for the three, four years in spite of full support from Gauḍīya Maṭha?" We were sending seven hundred rupees. In those days seven hundred rupees means nowadays seven thousand. He was squandering the money. "Authority, authority, scholarly, how many books you have published from your institution for the last forty years?" He was in London. In the 1930's he came back. Came back means Guru Mahārāja called him back. Then he separated from Gauḍīya Maṭha, and he tried to start this institution. Sometimes in the 1945, '47..., not '40, '30. And it is '75, clear forty years. So what books you have published? Authority, scholarly, what books you have published? And how many scholars you have produced? Why it is closed now?

Satsvarūpa: He's bluffing.

Prabhupāda: He has simply collected money like anything by this bluff. Now people are asking that. Therefore Dalmia said one of the trustees, "You better give it to Bhaktivedanta Swami." They have seen. They have taken money from them. Or for maintaining the institution he regularly gets money from rich men in Calcutta, Bombay, one thousand, two thousand, 1,500, like that.

Satsvarūpa: He has given the school some title, "Oriental Institute." It is called the Oriental Institute?

Brahmānanda: Institute of Oriental Philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Institute of Oriental Philosophy? Yes. And the students are coming to him with knives. That is his popularity. Amongst his own students, he is threatened with knife. And he has to sign something by such threatening. (end)

Morning Walk -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: ...resembling Boston. That students' quarter?

Brahmānanda: Yes. (break)

Prabhupāda: Go to the beach now. (break) Sweet water?

Bhavānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: No.

Bhavānanda: This is fresh water. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...Angeles, I have seen while going to the beach, one man has made a boat of concrete cement. Did you see? Nobody marked?

Viṣṇujana: In California there are such boats, concrete boats.

Prabhupāda: They are used?

Viṣṇujana: Oh yes. They are used for taking cargo up and down the coast. They don't travel in the ocean, but they travel on the coast. They used them during the Second World War all over the United States.

Prabhupāda: Such boat does not drown?

Viṣṇujana: They keep it up by huge air tanks. By holding so much air they keep the cement up. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...ficial means. Otherwise it will drown.

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Jagadīśa: He says young people today have no sense of discipline. They don't know what it means to be...

Prabhupāda: How they can be? They are not trained up. They are not trained up from the very beginning. For being trained up, there is another four divisions, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. These are the training divisions. So for the first-class, second-class, third-class, all the students, they are trained up as brahmacārī, student life. Brahmacārī means celibacy, live under the direction of the teacher and accept all kinds of hardship under the teacher's or spiritual master direction. Children, they can easily take it. If a child, a small child, I ask him, "My dear child, you take my shoes and keep it there," he will immediately agree. He has no sense, "Oh, he is asking me to take his shoes." He will immediately agree. Even he is very rich man's son. So this life is advised that a student live just like a menial servant of the teacher or the spiritual master. And they agree. We have got good instances. And he is coming from the first-class family, brāhmaṇa family or kṣatriya family or vaiśya family, first, second, third. So even śūdra family, he can learn also. So brahmacārī. Then he is, if he can remain without wife or without opposite sex, then he continues to remain as brahmacārī. He is encouraged. This process encourages to remain brahmacārī, that "Don't take to sex life, it is entailed with so many difficulties. Practice to remain a brahmacārī. You'll save so much trouble." But if he is unable—the teacher sees-Then he is allowed to marry, marriage. If he is trained up brahmacārī, when he marries, he lives with wife under rules and regulation, not like cats and dogs. And then, because he had previous training, at a certain age he gives up family life. That is called vānaprastha. Pañcaśordhvam vānam vrajet. The vānaprastha life is accepted, generally, after fiftieth year, not earlier. Then the husband and wife travels all over, I mean to say, spiritual sanctified places. In India there are so many places. So in this way, there is no sex in the vānaprastha. Simply the wife remains as assistant. And she also practices austerities. And then the husband, when he is fully mature, he sends wife back to his elderly children to take care of her and he takes sannyāsa. So this is spiritual advancement, and in sannyāsa life, one is absolutely dedicated for the service of God. So in this way his life becomes perfect. And according to his perfection, he gets next birth in higher planetary system. In the upper planets, planetary system, there is Svargaloka up to the third-class man. And then, above that, there are Janaloka, Maharloka, Tapaloka, Satyaloka, Brahmaloka. And beyond that, there is spiritual world. So in this way life becomes perfect. If you want, you can go to the spiritual world. Spiritual world means no more accepting this material body. And so long we are in this material world we repeat one body after another. And if we degrade ourself to become criminals, then we degrade to the hellish planets down this universe. So human civilization means by nature's way, by evolutionary process, he has come to this body of human being. He should now decide that whether he should remain in this chain of birth and death or he should get out of it and go to the spiritual world. This training required. So throughout the whole world there is no such institution to study all this fact. They are going just like fourth-class men. They have decided out of their own accord that there is no life after death. Young men say that there is no old age, but nature will not agree. Your next life is old age. That is natural. You cannot say, "No, no, I don't believe in it." You believe or not believe, it will come. Similarly, you believe or not believe, your next life is there.

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Śrī Govinda: Possibly we could invite the city manager also to come to discuss with Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: No. So if we get a good place with the cooperation of the authorities, then our simple program is that, as Professor Judah has remarked, drug-addicted hippies, they have been turned into devotees. We shall invite anyone to come and chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and take prasādam and we are... I began this movement in New York alone, and these boys gradually came to me, but my process was this: chanting and giving them prasādam. He is one of the original student. He was. So this process, very simple process, everyone will be able to accept it. Chant, dance, and take prasādam. Within that process, everything is there. Then he will understand. They will read these books... They are practical examples. I am poor Indian, I did not bribe them neither I have money. (laughter) So now they have dedicated their life for this purpose. So I want to do it in a large scale.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Ghanaśyāma: Yeah. He says, "Oh, yes, I know the Bhaktivedanta books. I have just got this book from one of my colleagues." And he says, I showed him the books. He wanted the standing order. He teaches Sanskrit and Indian religions and Indian philosophy. And he said, "Well, there's one book I was just reading. Bhaktivedanta, he mentions the Nectar of Devotion." He says that "You didn't show me that. Do you have that one?" (Prabhupāda laughs) So I brought the books back to him that same day. And when I brought them, his students, they were in class and they came out of the class and they started looking at the books themselves. And they really wanted to be showed they could have a chance to read them in their course. They were really happy that he was buying them. They said, "Oh, these are the Kṛṣṇa consciousness books. We've read some of these before. These are really nice." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...Kṛṣṇa, his all sinful reactions stopped. Kṛṣṇeti varṇa-dvayam. Rūpa Gosvāmī says, "What nectar is there in these two alphabets, kṛṣ-ṇa!" Kṛṣṇeti varṇa-dvayam. (break) ...greater enthusiasm you go on with book distribution. They will be benefited, and distributors also will be benefited. Kṛṣṇa says, ya idaṁ paramaṁ guhyaṁ mad-bhakteṣv abhidhāsyati (Bg 18.68). Na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ (BG 18.69). If you want to become quickly recognized by Kṛṣṇa, then make propaganda, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And once recognized by Kṛṣṇa, then your going back to home, back to Godhead, guaranteed. (break) ...took from London to here come?

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Give the devotees.

Lt. Mozee: Just a personal question, how long has your group been in the United States?

Prabhupāda: I came here in 1965. But for one year there was no program; I was loitering only. And then, in 1966, July, I registered this society in New York, and gradually these students... I rented one storefront in New York, Second Avenue, and in this way practically it was started in 1966. Then in 1967 I was attacked with heart attack. Then I returned India. Then again I came back in 1968. So practically the movement is going on regularly from 1968. Yes.

Lt. Mozee: Do you find that you have—again, a personal thing—do you find that you are having difficulty disassociating yourself with false prophets like the Guruji?

Prabhupāda: No, we don't accept. We don't. Because...

Lt. Mozee: I mean disassociating your group with a man like that.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Certainly, we disassociate. We have no very good opinion.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Mrs. Wax: I can't find any in the society. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: That is the defect. We have no idea who is first-class man. Everyone is drunkard, everyone smoker, everyone is gambler, everyone is illicit sex, where is first-class man? So in the absence of first-class man there must be criminals. Aiye. So there is a need of first-class men, first-class men and second-class men. Third-class, fourth-class, fifth-class, they are automatically there. So at the present moment fourth-class, fifth-class men. Third-class is also very scarcely found, and there is no question of first-class, second-class. But as in the full body we require brain, we require arm, we require belly, we require leg... Everything is required for different purposes of work. But at the present moment there is no place for the first-class men. When we ask our students that "You become free from all these four classes of sinful activity: no illicit sex, no meat-eating," people laugh: "Oh, why you are asking?" They do not know what is the ideal man. They think, "Illicit sex, what is wrong there? Meat-eating, what is wrong there?" They do not know what is right and wrong. Therefore all fourth-class men. They cannot understand even what is the value of these things. So you cannot be happy with fourth-class men. At least there must be a section, first-class men. That we are trying to create, a first-class man from this Gurukula.

Room Conversation with Mr. & Mrs. Wax, Writer and Editing Manager of Playboy Magazine -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Jayatīrtha: Like the frog in the well.

Prabhupāda: Yes. A frog in the well is thinking, "This is the limit of water." (laughter) And if you say there is Atlantic Ocean, he cannot understand it. He will think, "What is that?" "Oh, it is very big." "How much? Is it three feet? It is four feet?" "No, no, very big." "Five feet?" "No, no, still..." "Six feet?" So he is calculating in that way, "Four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten," but Atlantic ocean is beyond his conception. So these are all Dr. Frog's philosophy. Yes. And the so-called philosophers, they are Dr. Frog. (laughter) We consider them as Dr. Frog. Some of my students who are doctors, they are now trying to give up their job because they are understanding this is all false knowledge. Yes.

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, because you are presenting this knowledge so purely, then it's possible for the common man to understand this knowledge without chanting and following the four regulative principles.

Prabhupāda: That is not possible. That is not possible. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). You have to cleanse the mirror of your consciousness, then the reflection will be properly viewed. If you keep it dirty, then it is not possible. Therefore we require first-class men to understand this philosophy, not the fourth-class man. If you keep him fourth-class man, it is not possible.

Morning Walk -- July 6, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: You are already preaching.

Jagadīśa: But many of the devotees are not so inclined to listen to a householder, as to a sannyāsī.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Neither to the sannyāsīs. (break) ...this building?

Brahmānanda: It's the univers... It's a theo... (break)

Prabhupāda: Not for the students?

Jagadīśa: That's what they originally were for.

Prabhupāda: Now? (break) Eucalyptus? No.

Sudāmā: No, Prabhupāda. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...one for the bathroom. (break) Eh? Fifth class. (break) ...fourth-class. (break) class. The same?

Sudāmā: It's the same one.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, When you were... Many years ago you used to have me send you eucalyptus twigs from San Francisco.

Prabhupāda: Hm, yes.

Television Interview -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Woman reporter: In other words, you do not believe this, what they say.

Prabhupāda: Then why do you study different brain?

Woman reporter: I don't study them. I'm just telling you what the scientists say.

Prabhupāda: So scientists, the psychologist... As I was a student of psychology and our professor, a big man, Dr. W. S. Urquhart, he said that "By studying the brains of man and woman, we have found the highest brain substance found in man, sixty-four ounce by weight." You may deny. This is the statement of a big psychologist. You can shake your head, but this is the scientific words by big psychologist. You can note down his name, Dr. W.S. Urquhart, professor of psychology in the Scottish Churches College in 1918-20.

Woman reporter: Oh, dear, no wonder. 1918-1920, that means... O.K. I see now what you're thinking about. That was many, many years ago.

Prabhupāda: So can you give any proof since then that the woman's... In 1920... She does not take it?

Room Conversation after Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Harikeśa: Is that in the Vedas also?

Prabhupāda: No, I am talking of the psychology. I have given the name, Dr. W.S. Urquhart. When I was student, he said. So he is a great authority in psychology. So I have given the date. But they say, "Now they have improved." Then what can be said? But they could not improve this position: they have become pregnant. For the last hundred and thousands and millions of years, in the history we hear that woman is pregnant. We never heard the man is pregnant. So where is the progress? If you are actually making progress, so millions of years ago, the history we hear... Even Rāmacandra, millions of years, Lord Rāmacandra. Sītā became pregnant, not Rāmacandra. If you take history, now where is the improvement? Millions of years ago, Rāmacandra. Sītā became pregnant, not Rāmacandra. The law of woman's becoming pregnant, millions of years was there. And what improvement have they made now? They say, "We have made improvement." What is that improvement? Millions of years ago, Sītā, she became pregnant, and Rāmacandra did not become pregnant. Man did not. So what is the improvement at the present moment? Is there any instance, a man is now becoming pregnant. And not the woman? So where is the improvement?

Jagadīśa: Even all species of life it is the same.

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1975, Chicago:

Brahmānanda: Actually they are simply interested in bones, but this is the activity of the dog. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, he finds, (laughter) like that. So it is dog's philosophy. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...history in the I.A., intermediate. So a big professor, Dr. Kalidasa Nath, he began to speak, "There was stone age, simply stone there was," in this way. And I immediately..., that "What nonsense you are speaking, stone? There was nothing?" According to the anthropology of Darwin... From the very beginning, when I was a student, I did not believe this Darwin's theory. (break) ...study one after another, chronologically, as Darwin says, skull, it is not possible at all. For any single man it is not possible.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: 8,400,000 species.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Has he gone down the water? Then what is the...? simply speculation.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Factual scientific study would mean to study all 8,400,000 species?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is scientific study. But that is not possible. Therefore your theory is always imperfect because you cannot say that "I have studied all." You simply guess, "There is some gap, millions of years." So this is not study.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Who teaches these things—how to know God and how to love Him—he is spiritual master. Otherwise bogus, rascal bogus. Sometimes they mislead that "I am God." Poor people, they do not know what is God, and a rascal proposes, "I am God," and they accept it. Just like in your country they elected Nixon president and again drag him. That means they did not know who is really bona fide president, elected somebody, and again they had to business of dragging out. Similarly, people are foolish. Any rascal comes. He says, "I am God." They accept. And again they accept another. This is going on. So one must be serious student to understand what is God and how to love Him. That is religion. Otherwise, it is simply waste of time. That we are teaching. That is the difference between others and our... We are presenting Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the science, how to know Him. The Bhagavad-gītā is there, Bhāgavata is there. Not bogus. Authorized. Therefore this is the only institution which can teach how to know God and how to love Him. Two business. There is no third business. It is not our business to ask God to give us our necessities. We know God gives necessities to everyone, even one who has no religion. Just like cats and dogs. They have no religion. They do not know what is religion. But still, the cats and dogs are supplied with necessities of life. So why we should bother Kṛṣṇa, asking Him, "Give us our daily bread"? He is supplying already. Our business is how to love Him. That is religion. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavaḥ atra paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ vāstavaṁ vastu vedyam atra (SB 1.1.2). Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmaḥ yato bhaktir adhokṣaje: "That is first-class religion which teaches how to love God." And that love—not for any material motive: "God, You give me this. Then I will love." No. Ahaitukī. Love means without any personal profit. If I love God for some profit that is business. That is not love. Ahaituky apratihatā. And such love of God cannot be checked by any material cause. In any condition, one can learn how to love God. It is not conditional, that "I am poor man. How shall I love God? I have got so many things to do." No, it is not like that. Poor, rich or young or old, black or white, there is no impediment. If one wants to love God, he can love God.

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: So these things are uncivilized way of life, and what they will understand God? That is not possible.

Sandy Nixon: I'm asking these questions for others, of course, a field(?) that is not understanding Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: To understand God means one must be first-class civilized man. Just like university is meant for first-class student, similarly, God consciousness means meant for the first-class human being.

Sandy Nixon: O.K. This question's a hard one for me to ask because it shows ignorance on my part. But I'm not asking it in ignorance. I want your answer on tape, O.K.? Does all desire ultimately have to go, including the desire to attain Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Prabhupāda: Without Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you will have simply rubbish desires. And when you are Kṛṣṇa conscious, then you desire rightly.

Sandy Nixon: The aim of many spiritual paths is to find the guru within.

Prabhupāda: Within?

Sandy Nixon: The guru within. Is this different...?

Prabhupāda: Who says that, to find guru within?

Sandy Nixon: Um...

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Sandy Nixon: How do you deal with negativity? In the outside world do... The devotees encounter negativity every day, people that are not interested. How, not just on the outside world, but how does one deal with that within, how does one relieve oneself of that negativism?

Prabhupāda: Negativity means... Just like we say, "No illicit sex." We say, we teach our students, "No illicit sex." Do you think it is negative? What does she mean by...?

Jayatīrtha: The situation is that other people think that it's negative, and therefore they feel negatively towards us. So how should we react to that?

Sandy Nixon: Well, how to do, you deal with it within yourself?

Ravīndra-svarūpa: What do you mean negativity within yourself?

Sandy Nixon: No, no, not just criticism but if you get a lot of people that are working against you all the time... Here you're surrounded by people that are positive and that are reinforcing. But when you get yourself in the outside world in a position where there are people that are draining you and taking your energy, how do you replenish that energy?

Ravīndra-svarūpa: How do we stay fixed when there are so many people against us?

Prabhupāda: So nobody is against you? Do you think nobody is against you? I am asking you.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prof. Hopkins: I'm not thinking so much of the specific Cantos as the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam as a whole. Is that, for you, as you see it, more important than Bhagavad-gītā?

Prabhupāda: No, Bhagavad-gītā is the preliminary study of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Prof. Hopkins: So you would see the two related to each other.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If one can understand Bhagavad-gītā then he becomes a bona fide student of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Prof. Hopkins: Oh.

Prabhupāda: Because in the... You have read Bhagavad-gītā?

Prof. Hopkins: Oh yes, I have.

Prabhupāda: So Bhagavad-gītā, last instruction is sarva dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja. (BG 18.66) "You give up all kinds of occupation and just surrender unto Me." If one can take it very seriously, understand, then he can enter into the study of Bhāgavatam. The Bhāgavatam begins from the point where Kṛṣṇa left Bhagavad-gītā. So he advised that "You surrender to Me," and Bhāgavata begins, satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi (SB 1.1.1), "I am worshiping the Supreme Truth." And next verse is dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2), "All cheating type of religious system is rejected." So this is rather revolting. Kṛṣṇa says sarva dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66), "Give up all kinds of religious system, just surrender to Me." And from that point Bhāgavata begins, "All cheating type of religious system is rejected." It is meant for the paramahaṁsa. Paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ. Those who are envious, for them is not Bhāgavata. So any materialistic person, he is envious. It is not meant for the materialistic person. Those who are spiritually advanced, one who has understood that "I am not this body, I am spirit soul, my direct connection is with God, therefore my only business is to serve God." One who has come to this conclusion, he is called paramahaṁsa. Haṁsa means swan. A swan, it has got a quality that if you give the swan to drink milk mixed with water, she will drink the milk and reject the water. She has got the capacity. So paramahaṁsa means one who has taken the essence of the existence, Absolute Truth, he is called paramahaṁsa.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Just like I have got so many branches, hundred branches. So everyone knows that I am something, but that does not mean I am present everywhere. My student(?) has got this tape..., hundreds of thousands of tape recorders to record my speech and then you speak the same thing that I am speaking, but I am not there. And that is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā.

mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ
jagad avyakta-mūrtinā
mat sthāni sarva bhūtāni
na cāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ
(BG 9.4)

Hm? Find out. Everything is God but God is not everything. He is simultaneously one and different. We therefore say that everything is God but not that everything is..., not that God is everywhere. But because everything is God, everything, with everything you can realize God.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: You have given him prasāda?

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You are staying here?

Prof. Hopkins: No, I'm going back to Lancaster this evening. I have tomorrow... Tomorrow morning we are getting a group of students together to go to India.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Prof. Hopkins: I am not going but we're sending seventeen students to India, leaving tomorrow evening.

Brahmānanda: You can stay at our guest house in Vṛndāvana.

Prof. Hopkins: Ah, could I pass on the people an invitation from you that that would be possible?

Brahmānanda: Yes. Definitely we can arrange it.

Prof. Hopkins: Because I know there are students in the group who would like to visit Vṛndāvana. And you, I think, talked to some this spring and you were there. I know that the senior student with the group is very interested in going to Vṛndāvana.

Devotee: We have nice facility there. (indistinct)

Prof. Hopkins: That's true. They're going to be in Delhi for a week or so. It would be great if they could get out to Vṛndāvana just for a day. They can come back later when they have more time. So... Would they have to make preliminary arrangements or could they...? Is there some way they could make arrangements from Delhi to do that?

Brahmānanda: Afterwards we can discuss it.

Prof. Hopkins: Okay. So.

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much.

Prof. Hopkins: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)

Morning Walk -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Again chance.

Bahulāśva: This has become a very popular subject, psychology. About 80% of the students take a class in this. And they took a survey, and the reason most students take this class is to find out more about who they are themself. So it is the closest thing in the west to self-realization.

Jayatīrtha: They've found out that "I am no better than the animal"? That's the conclusion?

Dharmādhyakṣa: One school. Then there's another school. They say, "How can you base a theory of human nature on animals?" They do not like this. They are revolting against making man an animal.

Bahulāśva: Bhagavad-gītā gives the best psychology.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bahulāśva: How to control the mind to uplift the self.

Prabhupāda: (break) So why the dogs cannot construct such building? (break) ...psychology? Why they haven't got the same psychology?

Morning Walk -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: So similarly, there may be others who are still advanced. Therefore the most advanced is God. This should be the psychology. As we see there is difference between dogs and hogs and man, so go on. Search out. So when you find out the most intelligent person, then he is God. (break) ...parataraṁ nānyat. That is statement of Bhagavad-gītā: "No more intelligent. Here, ultimate. I am God." So from psychological point of view how they can deny God?

Yadubara: No one is teaching that in this big university. Therefore the students are very discouraged, depressed.

Prabhupāda: Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Paramaḥ, paramaḥ means the Supreme. Our definition of God is that supreme in every respect. What man can do, the dog cannot do. What the dog can do, the cat cannot do. What the cat can do, the rat cannot do. So we see so many differences. Therefore there must be others who are more intelligent than man. That is demigod. And there must be others most intelligent than the demigods. In this way when you come to the final, that is Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). Go on finding out more, more, more. When you come to the final, that is God or Kṛṣṇa. So we take instruction from Him. Therefore we are better than the so-called university professors.

Bahulāśva: In this tower they had to put glass so the students wouldn't jump out. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Ohh! Just see.

Morning Walk -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Touching?

Dharmādhyakṣa: Yes. There's a picture, and your hand is like this.

Prabhupāda: No. (break)

Bahulāśva: Many students are here during the day. They come and set up the Deities and then do kīrtana and give out prasādam.

Prabhupāda: Do that. Continue that. They will be infected.

Bahulāśva: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Infect them.

Bahulāśva: Their brains will be washed. We will have big success with this new temple here, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Many of these students will come and visit us. People like us very much here, at least the students.

Prabhupāda: That is very good. Students are the future hope, young students.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we should teach them to live very simply, to give up all of this complexity that is causing them so much agitation and depression and just live very simply, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is greatest common factor. Whatever he may be, if he is induced to chant, that is very good, and take prasādam. (break) ...canvas(?) pasted there? Granada? Granada.

Press Conference -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Everything will be polished if Hare Kṛṣṇa movement is taken. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ (SB 5.18.12). If this God consciousness is spread, then everyone will be brilliantly qualified. And without God consciousness, the so-called education as we were discussing in the morning, there is no value in it. Simply they are talking. What is the subject matter we were talking?

Bahulāśva: Psychology this morning.

Prabhupāda: The result is the students are falling down from the tower in disappointment. And they are protected with glass.

Bahulāśva: In the bell tower on Berkeley campus students in the 60's would jump from that tower to kill themselves. So they put glass there to stop the students from jumping. So Prabhupāda was explaining that is their education, that after getting their education, they have to jump to commit suicide. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: This is not education. Vidyā dadhāti namratā. Educated means he is humble, gentle, sober, full of knowledge, practical application in life of knowledge, tolerant, control of the mind, control of the senses. That is education. What is this education?

Reporter (2): Are you attempting to form a college?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is my next attempt, that we shall educate according to classification. First-class, second-class, third-class, up to fourth-class. And then fifth-class, sixth-class, that is automatically there. So first-class men, there must be, at least in the society, an ideal class of men, and that is one who is trained up for controlling the mind, controlling the senses, very clean, truthful, tolerant, simplicity, full of knowledge, practical application of knowledge in life and full faith in God. This is first-class man.

Morning Walk -- July 17, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: So he taught you how to use?

Yadubara: What?

Prabhupāda: He taught you how to use H-bomb?

Yadubara: No, he wasn't teaching that. He was teaching some physics. He was not a very good teacher. There were 1500 pupils in the class, students, and we would never be able to see the teacher, so many students.

Dharmādhyakṣa: He recently retired, and he was lamenting how young people are shunning science now. Young people are not so interested in science. He was also very disappointed that the new scientists were not as well trained as the old scientists and did not have the same desire to serve science.

Prabhupāda: What they will do by serving science? The birth, death is already there. So they are becoming saner, that "What is the use of wasting time in this way? We cannot solve any problem." That is sense. They cannot solve any... He is still alive or died?

Dharmādhyakṣa: He's alive.

Prabhupāda: So ask him that "Find out some bomb that you will not die. Why don't you do that?" (laughter) Yes. "People are dying, and you have invented something to die very soon. So why don't you invent something that you will never die? Can you do that? Therefore we are no more interested in science. It is a waste of time." Tell him. You go your professor. "You are regretting that young men are no more interested. So this is our reason because, after all, we have to die. Everything will be finished. Then what is the use of studying? You have not improved anything. The animals have also two legs, and two, four legs. We have got also four legs and where is the difference? You say, the Darwin's theory, from monkey, man has come, but you never shown us that a monkey has ever given birth to a man. So all this false propaganda, we are no more interested."

Morning Walk -- July 18, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Well, money is everyone is getting. The dog is also getting. Sometimes dog is inheriting the property of his master. But that does not mean he is not a dog.

Paramahaṁsa: About one month ago there was a very big story in the newspapers about how this student who went to all the archives in the Washington D.C. library, and from known records he compiled enough information to construct an atom bomb. Did you hear about that?

Prabhupāda: No.

Paramahaṁsa: He became world famous. So they concluded that anyone who wanted to could get normal information from normal sources and theoretically construct an atom bomb. But they don't have the equipment, but they have the knowledge now. So they're proposing in that sense that any terrorist organization within the next five years will be able to invent their own atom bomb.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's a fact.

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Bahulāśva: Would you like to see?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Very good. So they are selling?

Bahulāśva: This is just a display for the students to see, like advertisement.

Prabhupāda: That's nice.

Bahulāśva: Yesterday many people bought your books.

Brahmānanda: And it says here, "Birth, old age, disease and death." What is this? "The Bhagavad-gītā we find information that besides earth, water, fire, air, space as well as the mind, intelligence and false ego, there exists a superior energy form. That superior energy is called ātmā, the self. There is an obvious difference between you and the ground. That factor that distinguishes the animate from the inanimate is consciousness. That consciousness or awareness of being is proof of the existence of the self."

Prabhupāda: Very nice. This is the library? No.

Bahulāśva: No, just student union. Around three thousand dollars of books were sold yesterday.

Prabhupāda: Oh. And sweets?

Bahulāśva: Oh, around five thousand. (laughter) The tongue is most voracious.

Yadubara: I talked to one boy yesterday, Śrīla Prabhupāda, and he was there at the festival because he had found your books in the school library. And he said now he was saved.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) Kṛṣṇa dāsa, some scientists say that there is no life in the other planets, and some scientists said there may be. So who is correct?

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: I think Christ said that there are many things to be spoken but...

Paramahaṁsa: "My father's house has many rooms, but I cannot tell you of it now."

Prabhupāda: Because they were fourth-class, fifth-class men. They will not understand. Therefore it is taken, "dogmas." The modern students, they are advanced in education, and these things are not explained. And besides that, their education is atheistic. Therefore they are trying to reject religion.

Nalinī-kaṇṭha: They say you cannot study Veda because Christ said that there is no other way than himself.

Prabhupāda: Because they are fourth-class, unless he says like that, how they will stick? They were not intelligent men. Just like Lord Buddha also said, "There is no God." "There is no God," but he is God himself.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That means the followers of Lord Buddha are less intelligent than the followers of...

Prabhupāda: "Less" not. They are atheist class. So they will not understand what is God. So he said, "There is no God. You just hear me and become nonviolent." So his idea was, "Let this rascal first of all become nonviolent. Then they will be pure, and then they will understand."

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: I think I may remember. There is economist professor, Marshall? Marshall's economics?

Mr. Surface: Yes.

Prabhupāda: You know him? You must be knowing. I think he gives definition of economic impetus-family affection. I was also a student of economics in my student life, Scottish Churches' College. So we had to read this Marshall economics, I think. That definition, that what is the economic impetus, why people want to earn money? So the reason, he gives-due to some family affection. Am I right?

Mr. Surface: I didn't understand the last part.

Prabhupāda: Family affection.

Brahmānanda: Family affection is the impetus for economic...

Prabhupāda: Development.

Mr. Surface: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So he is dependent on the family affection. Then economic impetus go on. And I think he has given another proposition that if man can easily live, then he will not work. That is the nature of man. Therefore a rich man's son, he does not work. Because he has father's money, he can spend. In America the boys are rich man's son, and therefore so many boys are not working. They have got easy income, and they are not working. And because there is no proper work, they are becoming hippies. They are manufacturing independence. "Idle brain is a devil's workshop." This human psychology is the same everywhere. In India many rich men's son, until he has spoiled his father's whole money, he is restless. And when he is turned to a beggar, then he is satisfied.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: He gets money regularly, and he can never get out of the habit.

Prabhupāda: In your country also. One keeps a girlfriend, the girl's getting welfare, and he is purchasing drugs, and then their husband goes. I have seen. Some of our students have been. I have seen them.

Satsvarūpa: That's very prominent.

Prabhupāda: And making trade. That is going on.

Brahmānanda: So this is the varṇāśrama system that you are...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: This varṇāśrama college...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Varnāśrama means everyone should be engaged. There will be no, I mean to say, (indistinct).

Jagadīśa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what exactly do the... Do the vaiśyas cultivate the fields or the śūdras cultivate the fields?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jagadīśa: Is it the duty of the vaiśyas to cultivate the fields or...?

Prabhupāda: Actually it is the duty of the vaiśyas, but the śūdras can help everyone, the helpers. The śūdras will help the brāhmaṇas, the kṣatriyas, as well as the vaiśyas. Those who have no brain—simply they can carry out order—they are śūdras. And those who have got brain, they can act as brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, or vaiśya. They have got brain to take the initiative. First-class brain, they should be engaged in studying śāstras, writing books and in the worship of the Deity, lecturing enlightened people. This is brāhmaṇa. They haven't got to work as kṣatriya, as vaiśya. They are simply intellectuals. This is brāhmaṇa, with good character.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- August 1, 1975, New Orleans:

Prabhupāda: Cobbler is less than śūdra. Yes. Cobbler means when the cows die, the cobbler may take it. If he wants, he can eat the flesh, and he can utilize the bone, hoofs. He can prepare... He gets the skin without any price. So he can make shoes and he'll make some profit. And because he is cobbler, he can be allowed to eat meat, fifth-class... Not that "Professor such-and-such," and eating meat. This is the degradation of society. He is doing the work of a brāhmaṇa—teacher means brāhmaṇa—and eating meat-Oh, horrible! Śyāmasundara? So make, organize. I can give you the idea, but I'll not live very long. If you can carry out, you can change the whole... Especially if you can change America, then whole world will change. Then the whole world... And it is the duty because they are kept in darkness and ignorance, then the human life is being spoiled. These rascals, because they do not know how to live... Andhā yathāndhair... They are blind, and they are leading... Others are blind, and they are leading and they, all of them, going to ditch. So it is the duty. There is... Caitanya has explained, para-upakāra. Save them. If it is not possible to save everyone, as many as possible... This is human life. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to save others who are in the darkness. It is not a profession: "Now, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is my profession. I'm getting very easily food and shelter." Just like the Indians, they are doing, a profession, say another means of livelihood. Not like that. It is for para-upakāra, actually benefiting the others. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then Kṛṣṇa will be very much pleased: "Oh, he is trying." 'Cause Kṛṣṇa personally comes for doing this benefit to the people, and if you do, then how much Kṛṣṇa will be pleased. Then? Just like I am traveling in my centers, and if I see that my students, my men are doing very nice, everything is going nice, how much pleased I will be, that I'll save my labors and now write books for the rest of my time.

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) ...New Vrindaban... article... last year...(Bengali)

Lalitā: (Bengali) ...Gurudeva's remarks about their remarks. And of his...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: August 24th and 34th issue of (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) "Śrīla Prabhupāda instructs a young American student in Sanskrit at the Gurukula." (Bengali) This is my miracle.

Lalitā: You are changing actually, transforming.

(Bengali) ....Rajneesh... (Bengali) She has to go to the temple, take the prasāda, serve to... (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) ...Kartik Bose... (Bengali) ...Kartik Bose's laboratory... (Bengali) ...Gauḍīya Maṭha... (Bengali)

Lalitā: (Bengali) ...Māyāpur... (Bengali) ...Vṛndāvana... (Bengali) ...Hare Kṛṣṇa mandir... (Bengali) ...Guru Mahārāja... (Bengali) They are so impressed, the way they are putting the śaṇkha and then, you know, ārati... (Bengali) The same time the door opens and the same time the śaṇkha. (Bengali) Sincere, sincere devotee.

Prabhupāda: Sincere devotee. (Bengali) At least... (Bengali) ...hundred men come... (Bengali) They have nothing to do with the

politics. (Bengali) Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). (Bengali) Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅksati (BG 18.54), samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. (Bengali) ...India government... (Bengali)

Lalitā: The project will be failure. (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) ...village... (Bengali) ...the cooperation... (Bengali) I like this position, dictatorship. Personally I like this. (Bengali) ...America... (Bengali) "What is your opinion about this?" Must criti... Yes, criticized policy of Indira Gandhi. (Bengali) ...is spiritually inclined. If she improves, it will be perfect. She wants to be improved.

Morning Walk -- August 25, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: He dictates.

Dhanañjaya: Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: How many students are in this college?

Prabhupāda: When he comes, Bon Mahārāja, here?

Dhanañjaya: Well, yesterday we went to see, but he is suffering form bronchitis and a fever. He was lying in his bed.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: He looked quite sick.

Brahmānanda: You saw him?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what they said. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...teachers' quarter? No.

Harikeśa: This is that part of Agra University. This belongs to Agra University.

Prabhupāda: Agra U...?

Dhanañjaya: Not belonging. It's affiliated, affiliated to Agra University. But it's belonging to this board of trustees, who operate the college. The land is belonging to Bon Mahārāja, but the board of trustees, they control the activities of the Institute.

Prabhupāda: So this building for the board of...

Devotee (1): These are for studying science, politics, geography, economics, and so on. It's just like any other college. There is no oriental philosophy being studied. There is only one student who is actually studying philosophy in the whole college, Vaiṣṇava philosophy. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...Fogel āśrama?

Gurṇārṇava: Fogel āśrama is further down, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: What is this āśrama?

Dhanañjaya: This is no āśrama, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It's just houses.

Morning Walk -- September 1, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They make analysis—"This is good; this is bad." The whole thing is bad; they do not understand. Dvaite bhadrābhadra sakale samana, ei bhala ei manda saba manodharma. A mental concoction we analyze—"This is good." And because the whole population is such rascal, therefore we see whole world they are creating government, they are making this advancement, taking... Everything is spoiled. That they do not understand, that "We have tried so far, scientifically and this way and that way. Why there are so many things disturbing and miserable?" The whole policy is to give you trouble. That is the material nature. You must be always in trouble. Adhyātmika adhibhautika. "No." They will say, "No, this trouble is better than that trouble." (laughter) This is the... This trouble is better than that trouble. Hare Kṛṣṇa. This Dr. Ghosh, he said... When he was student in Calcutta he was doctor of tropical medicine. So one English doctor was his professor, Colonel Maylow(?). So he was lecturing and... Now the friends have come to greet. He said that "In our country 75%, at least, students are infected with syphilis."

Morning Walk -- September 1, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: As if Caitanya Mahāprabhu asked him to give this institution to Vṛndāvana. Such a foolish person.

Brahmānanda: Yet he also admits that any boys who have intelligence, who are good students, they will go to Mathurā and Agra and other places for education. Here only the village boys come.

Prabhupāda: (to passerby:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.

Brahmānanda: Therefore he has very few students. He has very few students.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Brahmānanda: Now he is wearing kuntī beads.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Because he was criticized by our students in U.S.A. (sound of bell) See? The bell is ringing nice. There was no such ringing in this quarter. (break) ...fixed up so that thieves may not take it away? Not so securely.

Morning Walk -- September 26, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: Then why do you discriminate, this foreigner to that foreigner?

Yaśomatīnandana: I don't mind anybody. Whatever you say is all right. But I was just thinking like this because if somebody's going to come for a month, two months, then go, he might not put his heart.

Prabhupāda: That is the position of everyone. When they will go away, there is no certainty. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Rāma... Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Hindi) You are student? You are student? Somebody suggested some meeting here? Yesterday.

Kartikeya: No, that gentleman was there at seven o'clock.

Harikeśa: That man passed us and just kept on walking with his friends. Just when we were coming here, the same man just kept on walking.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Gerau? Gerau? What is that Gerau? Gerau? You know Gerau? Naxalite?

Indian man (2): These are all important things. It is not in our concept. Even a small man, from the starvation, can stay in a hut, inside a bungalow. There the people are making delicious food. They'll starve and die. How? Because they won't give (unclear). It is not because they are taught by some gurus or... Not like that. They are themselves (unclear)

Morning Walk -- September 30, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is must. It is must. But you cannot force in the beginning. That is not possible.

Dr. Patel: But they have to be explained of it.

Prabhupāda: But if they fix up their mind in Kṛṣṇa, the vidhi-niṣedha automatically will come. That process I adopted. When they came to me I never said that "You don't do this, don't do that, don't do that." No. "You simply come here and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." These are... Old students learned. I never said that "You have to follow these rules, these regulations, then you can come..." Because if chanting is properly done, then ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12)—the mind will be cleansed of all dirty things. Śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathā kṛṣṇa puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ (SB 1.2.17). Simply by hearing and chanting, they will be pious. Hṛdy antaḥ 'stho hy abhadrāṇi vidhunoti suhṛt satām. Kṛṣṇa is there. As soon as He sees one devotee is sincerely chanting, He'll help, cleansing the heart. Vidhunoti... You will read Ajāmila upākhyāna. Simply by chanting Nārāyaṇa...

Dr. Patel: Ajāmila got it.

Prabhupāda: Offenseless.

Morning Walk -- September 30, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: That is right, sir. That has been explained from time immemorial, but the world does not understand.

Prabhupāda: No, no, why not? These people are understanding. These all Kṛṣṇa conscious students, they are understanding. Otherwise...

Dr. Patel: These type of students were eternally there with all the religious teaching, past and present. But unfortunately...

Prabhupāda: So those who were there, they understood. They...

Dr. Patel: Unfortunate for the world it is not going to do that.

Prabhupāda: No, there was no preaching. That's it. Now the preaching is going on. They are understanding. Nobody preached this. If you... Just like a big building. If the foundation is wrong, then it will not stay.

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: What is that lecture?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The students have been invited to hear kīrtana and lecture, Prabhupāda, at another place.

Prabhupāda: Kīrtana?

Prof. Olivier: Might I just explain. I don't know whether we will have an audience. May I first of all say thank you very much for coming to the university. We are very honored also, sir, that you have been able to come, also that your guests have come, and that you have been able to come. Thank you very much for visiting the university. I unfortunately have a committee of my council meeting this afternoon, and the chairman is coming over shortly. So I will unfortunately not be able to attend your lecture. Thank you very much for coming. Some of you have been here before. We have this week a student break for a week before they start their examinations, so I do not know whether Professor Oosthuizen will have an audience at all. Maybe a few members of staff.

Professor: I told Mr. Bhoola when he asked me about the lecture, I told him that this would be a problem.

Prof. Olivier: Thank you very much for coming.

Prabhupāda: If there is no audience, what is the use of holding class?

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prof. Olivier: Well, Professor Oosthuizen here will take charge of you, but if there isn't an audience, I agree that one must be careful not to press too far. It may be more in the nature of a seminar. There might be people sitting around like this, and then there could be discussion. So that would depend on whether there is an audience. Students are funny people. They must be very strongly motivated before they will come away from their examination books at this time.

Prabhupāda: So my time for taking bath is half past eleven. They can... You can stay. I can go.

Prof. Olivier: So thank you very much.

Indian man (5): I want to say, professor, that on behalf of the Ārya-paṭha-nīti-sabhā, I would like to request Professor Oosthuizen and to his department of Hindu Studies and Science of Religion to make it known to the students who are interested in the study of Hindu studies that at 21 Kalar Street we have this Vedic temple and that the Vedic temple is open. You can see and also participate in this service.

Prof. Olivier: Thank you very much. Might I apropos of that just say here that we have here a department, Science of Religion. Then we have a department of Christian Theology. We have now started a department of Islamic Studies, which will concentrate more on the theological aspects as we go along. And then, if we can find the right guru, we can start a gurukula, a department of Hindu Studies or Hinduism. And Mr. Chotari and various other members of the local community here are assisting us to find the right spiritual leader. As far as Hindu studies are concerned, we give a course here in Sanskrit at the university.

Prabhupāda: You have seen our books?

Room Conversation with the Rector, Professor Olivier and Professors of the University of Durban, Westville -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: You have seen our books?

Prof. Olivier: I got a copy of the Bhagavad-gītā at the last occassion when your representatives were here, which I thought was a very well brought out and a very well documented edition. The printing is also very good. So we are trying at this university to, slowly, to delve down into the infrastructure of education. Of course, one..., in the Western society one has got to take cognizance of so many developments in the various fields of science. And the element of spiritual science certainly has been neglected. I would concede this point immediately. That is perhaps where this university can also still play a meaningful part. Of course, here we have representatives of three of the world's greatest religions: Islam, Hinduism, and Christianity. This will be part of Professor Oosthuizen's department, to try and take the best out of these and formulate for our students, and maybe for the rest of South Africa and the world that will listen, the essences of religion that would really satisfy as we go along.

Prabhupāda: We say that religion means the law given by God. So any religion must accept God. Then there is no difference. The law may be little different according to time, circumstances. But religion means dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Religion means the law given by God. Just like law means the codes given by the state. That is law. Just like you are keeping, "Keep to the right" or "left" here. In America it is right. So somewhere, "Keep to the right," or somewhere, "Keep to the left," but because it is given by the state, it is law. Similarly, whatever law is given by God, that is religion. This is our definition of religion.

Room Conversation with Bill Faill (reporter) -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Faill: Yes. One can be a student of Kṛṣṇa consciousness while going about a normal daily life.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Faill: Do you think transcendental meditation is beginning to help...

Prabhupāda: They do not know what is meditation. They are... Simply it is a farce. That is another cheating process by the so-called swamis and yogis. They do not know what is meditation. Do you know what is meditation? You are asking me the question, but do you know what is meditation?

Faill: Just a stilling of the mind, trying to sit in the center without swimming either way.

Prabhupāda: So what is that center?

Faill: Oh, I don't know.

Prabhupāda: Then? Why you are asking me? You do not know. So everyone does not know what is meditation, and they talk very much, "meditation." This is going on. These bluffers, they say "meditation," but what is the subject matter of meditation they do not know. Simply bogus propaganda. You see?

Room Conversation with Professor Olivier -- October 10, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Here?

Prof. Olivier: Yeah. It is a scholar from Vienna that we have got to teach this course for us. But what he teaches and what kind of basic philosophy, I wouldn't know. There are about thirty or forty students. So in essence, they ought to start by making at least a detailed study, as I see it, of the Bhagavad-gītā as a basis for their whole philosophy.

Prabhupāda: So why not appoint somebody to teach Bhagavad-gītā As It Is? That is essential. And we have got step by step, so many books, fifty books, simply to understand God.

Prof. Olivier: Uh huh. You mean from the beginning right through the...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. You can make them pass the entrance examination, the graduate examination, the postgraduate examination by studying these books. Yes.

Room Conversation with Professor Olivier -- October 10, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes.

Prof. Olivier: What must you do then?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Therefore in America many of our students, they are teaching courses at the university. I for one, I have a B.Sc. in chemistry. I'm actually a graduate in chemistry. I had a four-year scholarship to medical school and some of the other devotees are also graduates, and they are actually teaching in the universities.

Prabhupāda: If you want some of our student to teach, he can do that.

Prof. Olivier: I think one must make a start somewhere, either by getting specialist lectures or lecturers at least to start.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: We could always assist in some way in an objective presentation so that the students don't feel that they're being biased in any way. This is the idea of science. Let them draw their own conclusions. Just simply present the facts and let them come to their own conclusion. The main idea, though, is the authenticity. There's no use in studying something if it's simply mental speculation, which, of course, the Vedic scriptures mean that. They've been passed down for so many thousands of years intact, and the most important thing is to get a chance to read the originals in our own language, English, or Afrikaans, whatever it may be. We're also translating into Afrikaans the Bhagavad-gītā As It Is.

Prof. Olivier: Is that so?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Some of the girls are very, very proficient and they're doing this now, and we hope that within a year or so's time we'll have a polished copy to print. We're working in this direction.

Prof. Olivier: I see.

Prabhupāda: If this line of activity is taken seriously, sometimes I may come and teach them. Yes.

Room Conversation with Professor Olivier -- October 10, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: If this line of activity is taken seriously, sometimes I may come and teach them. Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It is a very nice opportunity because you have all Indian students and they are eager, eager to know. They want to know. And they want to...

Prabhupāda: And they should be helped to...

Prof. Olivier: They should be helped, yes. They should be helped.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the purpose of education.

Prof. Olivier: Apart from anything else, our Indian, our Hindu community here in South Africa seems to be very loose from any fixed idea of what constitutes Hinduism.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Professor Olivier -- October 10, 1975, Durban:

Prof. Olivier: ...that we don’t know where to start. I was telling them the other day that when the Americans sent their first man to the moon, they had a laboratory of about four thousand men at the controls. The one was doing this and the other one was doing that, but this was a huge human laboratory. That is only while they experiment, and then by that... (break)

Prabhupāda: He is my student. He practices like him.

Prof. Olivier: Yeah, but now would he have what is normally in the Western world called a theological degree?

Prabhupāda: He has...theological degree, he has studied all these books. This is theological. But there is no such thing at the present moment.

Prof. Olivier: Yeah. I can see your problem. But now our problem on this side is, of course, that you...

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Just as in America, I remember at the university...

Prabhupāda: No, you can give an experiment. We don’t charge anything. You see how he teaches. Then if you like, you can appoint.

Morning Walk -- October 12, 1975, Durban:

Indian man (3): You get attracted by a lot of side attractions.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And the education is so defective that even university students, if I say that "You are going to be a dog," they say, "What is the harm if I become?" They say like that. The education is so defective, they don't mind to become a dog. They think, "It is a facility to become a dog because I can have sex on the street without any restrictions."

Indian man (3): Yes. I mean they have lost their self-respect for that.

Prabhupāda: No consideration. They are actually like cats and dogs. This is going on. (break) Nobody knows what is soul; nobody knows what is the goal of life; nobody knows what is the necessity of the soul. These things are not discussed, neither they know it. So-called religious institution or so-called..., they do not know. It is only mentioned in the Bhagavad-gītā, and that... They do not take care of this Bhagavad-gītā. They manufacture their own ways of...

Indian man (3): Is there any other books before Bhagavad-gītā?

Prabhupāda: Yes, Vedas there are. Yes. But what is the purpose of Veda? The purpose of Veda is to understand God. If you do not understand God... Just like the Ārya-samājīs. They are concerned with Vedas, they say. But they do not know what is God. They say, "I am God." This is their knowledge. If he is God, who is going to worship him? Nobody comes to kick on his face, and still, he says, "I am God." This is going on. How you become God? Who worships you? But still, he will say, "I am God." You see. Such foolishness is going on. Ārya. Ārya means advanced, and this is their advancement. Ārya means advanced, and this is their advancement that they think, "I am God." Just see. Everyone can think like that. Then what is the use of advancement? This is going on. (break)...sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ. Veda means knowledge. So the ultimate knowledge is to know God. But if you do not know God, then what is the value of your knowledge?

Morning Walk -- October 21, 1975, Johannesburg:

uṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Ten. Eleven. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...He used to collect all these things for guru's cooking. Kṛṣṇa went to collect with Sudāmā Vipra, and all of a sudden, there was cloud and rain, and there was too much water, and they lived upon a tree for the whole night. Then Sāndīpani Muni, other students, came and rescued them.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Now we have to collect to pay the electricity bill.

Prabhupāda: These things are wasted. It can be utilized. The children, they'll gladly collect it. It will be like their sports. All the children will come and collect. Just see. Their energy is utilized, the nature's gift is utilized, and there is no expenditure.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Such a nice arrangment.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why they should charge for education? They'll not cut the tree. The dry branches or dead tree, they'll take the wood for utilization.

Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: He is Indian or African?

Indian man (4): No, no, African. He's a professor. Oh, yes. You have seen the letter, I think. So when I was in, then I was in Mandena's room. He said "No, you stay with me. Don't stay with the Asians." So I was in (?) university, you know. He said Asian can take this philosophy and not be so serious. Now he has gone to London. He may see you when you will be there, for a year. And he chants sixteen rounds. He has nobody, no picture else in his room. There was one picture of the president there. He took it down and he put a Kṛṣṇa picture there. So it's very serious. And he said, "I don't know. Since I have read the Bhagavad-gītā I go to my class to give a class to the students and I don't speak anything else about the scriptures."

Prabhupāda: That is the sign.

Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: Don't set bad example. That is detrimental.

Devotee (7): Śrīla Prabhupāda, is it for the advanced devotees...?

Prabhupāda: Nobody is advanced. Everyone is student. He must follow. There is no question of advanced.

Devotee (7): I mean, they call śūdras...

Prabhupāda: Śūdras? Śūdra, how he can be devotee? Śūdras are never devotee.

Indian man (4): No, he says sometimes the devotees, they call the other devotee that "You are śūdra."

Prabhupāda: That is jokingly. (laughter)

Indian man (4): Prabhupāda, sometimes you have said that this Gāyatrī was first spoken by the Lord, and this is a sound vibration of the Kṛṣṇa's flute, and it was heard by Brahma. Right? And these brāhmaṇas, so-called brāhmaṇas...

Prabhupāda: There is no question of "so-called." We want real brāhmaṇa. That's all. It was heard by the real brāhmaṇa, Brahma. Brahma, Brahma.

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Take it away and leave here.

Dr. Patel: No, I don't want it. (laughter) This has come from South Africa?

Prabhupāda: No, no. It was presented by Visalini in Vṛndāvana. One American girl student, she has given it. (break)

Dr. Patel: Man-manā bhava. Perpetually. It is just like an insect climbing a wall. Immediately it comes down on the ground. It takes about twenty-four hours.

Prabhupāda: No, no. If you practice... Just like these boys. They are chanting "Hare Kṛṣṇa," so their mind is fixed up in Kṛṣṇa. Man-mana. And they can do it without any being afraid by public criticism because they are mad-bhakta. They have become bhakta. Others, they will afraid: "I am such and such person. If I chant then what the others will speak?" (laughter) But a devotee is not afraid of anyone.

Indian (6): No, sir, but body is the temple of God. Vaiṣṇavas pray that...

Prabhupāda: That everyone... Dog is also worshiping the body.

Morning Walk -- November 13, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But who cares for them?

Yaśomatīnandana: Ninety-nine per cent of the people are completely misled.

Prabhupāda: No, no, not ninety-nine per cent. Maybe nine percent. (break)

Dr. Patel: As a matter of fact, science is not revealing itself now. Science is also realizing that it is not the way to realize God. Science is, when you were a student at college was much different than what it is today, sir, to tell the truth. The scientists have realized that they are nothing before, before all that they observe and the director of all that action, themselves and everything.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.

Passerby: Jaya Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: (break) Svarūpa Dāmodara is real scientist. He is admitting. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. What is that? Yad-uttama-śloka-guṇanuvarṇanam (SB 1.5.22).

Morning Walk -- November 13, 1975, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Because they have already joined.

Prabhupāda: All unfortunate, now they are. They have been so much trained badly. They say frankly, "Oh, this Hare Kṛṣṇa we have seen." In America when they chant... The Americans are chanting on the street, and the Indian students, "Oh, this we have done much. We have nothing to..." Here also they are thinking like that: "What is this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement? Eh? A beggars' movement." śāstra says, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21), and these rascals are thinking, "Oh, Hare Kṛṣṇa we have seen." You see? They have become so greatly intelligent, these rascals. They do not believe in śāstra, in sādhu, in God. All these "incarnations" and big, big men, they say, "Oh, what is the use of śāstra?" Even this Ānandamāyā says that "In higher advancement there is no need of śāstra." He is above śāstra. He, she says like that. And Kṛṣṇa said, yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ, na sa siddhim avāpnoti (BG 16.23), immediately condemned: "If you don't believe in śāstra, you are rascal." Kṛṣṇa said. And they say, "Oh, there is no need of..." And he's an incarnation of Kṛṣṇa. This Bal-yogi rascal is doing that: "There is no need of śāstra." This is going on. Now he's finished, of course. His activity is finished. (break)...strength of śāstra we are challenging that "You have never gone to the moon planet." Who can do so? The whole world is accepting they have gone to moon planet, and we are challenging, "You have never gone to moon." Hare Kṛṣṇa. Thank you very much. (end)

Morning Walk -- November 16, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Dr. Patel: You should never think like that.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is the cause of all causes, sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam (Bs. 5.1). But He has no kāraṇa.

Dr. Patel: This is ādi-praśna. Ādi-praśna. Ma pracasva. Ādi-praśna

Prabhupāda: No, no. He is, after all, a student here. That... This is Kṛṣṇa, that you go... Just like you are caused by your father. Your father is caused by your grandfather, his father, his father, his father, his father. In this way, if you go to Kṛṣṇa, then He has no father, and that is Kṛṣṇa. So long you will find another father, then he is not supreme. And when there is no more father, then He is supreme.

Dr. Patel: It is very difficult for us to understand the divya-bhāva of Kṛṣṇa. That is why people are asking these questions because divya-bhāva is very difficult to be understood.

Prabhupāda: Therefore it is said,

matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā
mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha-vratānām
adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisraṁ
punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām
(SB 7.5.30)

Those who are simply chewing the chewed, they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Naisaṁ matis tavad urukramāṅghrīm (SB 7.5.32).

Morning Walk -- November 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, the professor is also drunkard.

Dr. Patel: Then he may be a drunkard.

Brahmānanda: They drink together. (laughter)

Dr. Patel: That's right. That is right.

Prabhupāda: The professor goes to hell, and the student also goes. (laughter)

Indian man (3): This is their close association.

Dr. Patel: That is the way they...

Prabhupāda: So you know that story, that one man was drinking, so his friend told him, "You are drinking. You will go to hell." "Oh, my mother drinks." "Oh, she will also go." "My father drinks." "Oh, he will also go." "My brother drinks." "Oh, he will also go." "Then where is hell?" (laughter) "Father, mother, brother, myself, if we live together, then where is hell?" Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.

Morning Walk -- November 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Everything farce. There is no education.

Indian man (3): (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: In our time we had so much respect for our teachers and what love teachers had for us. One of my teachers in the school retired some time back and then... (break) They wanted to give him 65,000 rupees because he was a seventy-five years. And when we collected from the old students it came to more than six lakhs of rupees. That was the love of the old students for the teacher in those days. Now it is this.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...infection and disinfection also, but you don't take to disinfection. That is our... Here is disinfection, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Who is going to take it? They will prefer to be infected. (break) ...respectable person will send their children to gurukula. They don't want. I tried in the beginning. It was a failure. They don't want. Just like Prahlāda and Hiraṇyakaśipu. What is the trouble? The Prahlāda was devotee, and his father did not like him, that "Why you should be devotee? You become politician, diplomat." That is the difficulty, that nowadays everyone is Hiraṇyakaśipu, and he wants that his son should be diplomat, politician, black market and... What is the use of this Prahlāda? That is going on, especially in India. (break) Hiraṇyakaśipu, he'll never like to see his son Prahlāda. And our system is to make Prahlāda. So nobody will like it.

Morning Walk -- November 18, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (break) Scientists, do they accept this prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27)?

Dr. Patel: I think many of those wise people do accept. But you have been harsh to all and none, all of them at par. But so many of them are really intelligent people who accept... Because we can't do so many things. Practically nothing we can do. Because we find out something here and there does not mean that we are perfect in knowledge. But the scientists nowadays are different than what the scientists were in those days when you were a student. And you think we are just like that. We are different today. He's a scientist. He will tell you. The scientists do see... Scientists do, does the darśana of God in every part of the science, in every cell of living cell, every atom.

Prabhupāda: No. What was the report?

Brahmānanda: Of the books?

Prabhupāda: No. The report, speak to him, that science...

Brahmānanda: The reporter? Scientist?

Prabhupāda: Scientist.

Girirāja: Oh, yes.

Morning Walk -- November 18, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Majority.

Dr. Patel: Some of them.

Girirāja: I have spoken to many students coming out of the Indian schools, and they all say that "The universe was created by a chunk and it exploded," and they have no training that God is there behind everything that you see.

Dr. Patel: Everything is occuring by explosions. In our mind an explosion occurs, and we start believing in God. So that is not that, sir. I think they are misguided. How can anything happen without a supreme power?

Prabhupāda: If they are misguided, how they are scientists?

Dr. Patel: But we have all learned in the same schools of science, he, I and the rest, also scientists, here. We have learned the same way the science. But it all depends upon how he grasps it, how he thinks about it, how he understands it.

Prabhupāda: So that we can understand, that he is grasping like a fool. Therefore we call them "fools, rascals." There was a newspaper interview with a so-called scientist.

Morning Walk -- November 18, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It has become a difficult task.

Dr. Patel: ...by putting on these clothes, and so many things.

Prabhupāda: Just like the students, they say... What do they say? The students?

Girirāja: That in the beginning there was a chunk, and it exploded, and there's no God.

Prabhupāda: How they are spoiling the career. Whole life is spoiled. They are being taught in this way. Andha yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). This is going on, schools, colleges: "Don't believe in God." That has become a fashion, advancement. Yes. (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: But all are not like that.

Indian man (1): Not all, but some. (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Not some, ninety percent.

Morning Walk -- November 20, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is not for common folk. It is for the rājarṣis-imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ—not for the loafer class. Therefore the whole population was trained how to become rājarṣi. Now the loafer class, they are taking the place of rājarṣi. That is the difficulty. Kṛṣṇa says that this science is meant for the rājarṣi. Imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). He did not go to preach to the loafer class.

Dr. Patel: That is why it became naṣṭa.

Prabhupāda: No. The system was naṣṭa. A loafer class, he became a student of Bhagavad-gītā. That is...Therefore it is naṣṭa. Sa kāleneha yogo naṣṭaḥ parantapa. And anyone, any rascal, is commenting on Bhagavad-gītā. But it was meant for the rājarṣi.

Dr. Patel: Sir, I must have read at least, if not more, at least twenty commentaries on Bhagavad-gītā. But I found the best by Ācārya Rāmānujācārya and yours.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- November 29, 1975, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Again rascaldom, "chance." Who is making this chance? Can I make you by chance a dog? That is not possible. There is no such chance. It is by karma-phala. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ. The chance is that you are rascal, fool; you do not know what chance will make me what. Just like you infect some disease; you suffer from that disease. So this happens to the rascal. One who is intelligent, he does not infect. He is always cautious. Therefore this chance of infection is not there. Actually you cannot say "chance." It is your ignorance. You create chance. Because you do not know what will happen after something, on account of ignorance it is chance. But if you are fully aware, there is no question of chance. An intelligent student, he does not think, "By chance I may be passed." He reads properly. He appears in the examination, give the proper answer. It is not chance. And if he thinks, "All right, by chance I will be passing the..." Is it very intelligent? These rascals are talking like that. There is no question of chance. On account of ignorance they commit something infectious, and they suffer. And because they cannot explain, they say it is chance. It is not chance. It is due to some cause.

Morning Walk -- November 29, 1975, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: That we can say also from our Bhāgavata. That is not a very new thing. Those who are rascal, fools, for them it is new thing, and those who are student of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, it is not new point.

Haṁsadūta: I think Plato also predicted.

Harikeśa: Yes.

Haṁsadūta: We noticed this year at the book fair that they gave so many stands to the Communist publishers. There were at least ten or fifteen stands. And formerly they were not even allowed. They were not allowed. There was not a single one. Three years ago there was not a single stand which had Communist literature in the book fair, and this year there must have been fifteen.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a worldwide trend towards communism today.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: There's a worldwide trend towards communism. In Europe, communism is becoming very strong. Italy has almost become communistic. Communist party has captured...

Kṛṣṇa-caitanya: Portugal.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Portugal, there's a struggle going on. Even in France the Communist party is very, very strong.

Prabhupāda: Disappointment. Disappointment. People are becoming more and more poverty-stricken.

Morning Walk -- November 30, 1975, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Just see. Then where the income? There is no income and there is loss.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Not everyone does it, but students and a lot of young people do that.

Tejās: Students coerce them. They stop the buses. If the bus driver doesn't stop, they'll break the windows and then they all get on and they ride free. They were burning many buses.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But this year, because of the emergency, everyone is behaving all right. They're scared to do anything.

Prabhupāda: How by emergency you can make people honest?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: This house belongs to the (name withheld).

Tejās: This belongs to (name withheld)?

Prabhupāda: Yes. He has got three, four houses like that, separate, I saw, and whole day-two hours here, two hours there, two hours there.

Morning Walk -- December 10, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is the... Say.

Indian man: So we have to ask that. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: If he says, "No, none of my students are efficient," "Then why you are preaching? If you cannot make any one of your students as efficient, then why you are preaching, wasting your time?" No, no, these rascal, they, their face should not be seen even. They are so fallen.

Indian man: But now they all afraid from your stick.

Prabhupāda: Stick?

Indian man: Prabhupāda, they all thought many times that "Prabhupāda he criticize us." You know, they say. We said, "Yes, you are made to be criticized."

Devotee (3): Your stick is Bhagavad-gīta As It Is.

Prabhupāda: They say? They say?

Indian man: Oh, yes. In Mauritius there are many cults. So they invited us, I went to two, three. So they asked me that "We are coming many temple. You people, why not you come?" I said, "Well, whenever you invite us, we are ready to come, but you accept our philosophy." So they said, "How we can accept your philosophy? Prabhupāda, he, wherever, he say that all the other are Māyāvādī. All other are rascal." (laughter) "Well, Kṛṣṇa has said that. Prabhupāda is not doing that. Kṛṣṇa said who don't accept Him, he is mūḍha; he is rascal. So Prabhupāda is giving as it is, whatever Kṛṣṇa has said." Oh, they were...

Prabhupāda: No... (break) Kṛṣṇa said, "The rascals do not surrender to Me." So as soon as we see somebody not Kṛṣṇa conscious, we call him rascal. So what is the wrong there?

Indian man: It is not wrong.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Otherwise even a devotee like Bhārata Mahārāja, he had to accept the body of a deer. A little careless. Then nature's law will act. Hm? If you do not become cautious and if you infect the smallpox disease, you have to suffer. Therefore a civilized man takes process, caution, "Oh there is smallpox disease, I shall not go there. Or if I go there, I must take vaccine." This is human civilization, caution. And if you are animal, you do not know. So human life means not animal life. Very reasonable, very cautious, educated, cultured, that is human life. Not animal life. Drink like animal, or eat like animal, have sex life like animal. Freedom, animal has got all freedom. So that freedom is not allowed to the human beings. That is civilization. The same example. The animal has got freedom and you'll see in Indian market, vegetable market, some cow comes and eats, takes so many vegetables and eats, but he's not going to the court. But if you take one small piece of chili without, then you'll go to the court. So therefore, law is meant for human beings, not for the animals. Those who want to be free, they are animals. So-called freedom means animalism. That is not humanism. Humanism means to follow the rules and regulations and the laws, and then he is human being. Because law is meant for the human being, not for the animals. And when you come out from your home, immediately the law is keep to the right. And if you violate, immediately you go to the law. But a dog, he doesn't care. If you say, "A dog does not obey this law," that is no excuse. You are human being. If you don't obey then you go to jail. So many animals are on the street naked, they're having sex life, naked. You do, immediately you'll be prosecuted. Why? Because you are a human being. You have to restrain. Even if you like. Just like the Hawaii University students, "What is the wrong to become a dog?" So if you think like that then you become a dog, nature is ready to give you a dog's body. That is (Sanskrit). He's thinking, "The dog's life is very nice. This liberation of sex life on the street." "Alright, you take dog's body." Yaṁ yaṁ vā... Bhāvam... ah, what is that?

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, (Hindi). Hm.

Dr. Patel: Same thing—our boys have started smoking LSD in the colleges here. Yes, yes. In Grand(?) Medical College boys have started smoking. They know very well that it is a bad thing, medical students. Never bother the arts and science schools. (Hindi) Because their ideal starts from American precedent. The last precedent (president?) was so idealistic, so... (laughing)

Girirāja: A few days back in the newspapers there was..., smoking causes damage to the brain...

Dr. Patel: It causes damage everywhere, because it damages your blood vessel which carries the vital fluid to all the organs. The blood vessels are spoiled and narrowed down so not sufficient amount of blood will get to your brain, to your heart, to your lungs, your everything practically. Follow? This is not one of (indistinct). They smoke this ganja, sir, because artificially they go into a sort of a trance. That is what the psychedelic drugs.

Prabhupāda: That man also says like that.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Both ways. I cannot violate. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that you simply speak what Kṛṣṇa has said, and Kṛṣṇa says that anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he is a rascal. He is a most sinful man, he is the lowest of mankind. So why shall I not say? It is not firing; it is telling the truth. (laughs with Patel) But I am not loser. I am, I do not make any compromise. All these my students ask, I never made any compromise. But still they understand, and they are with me.

Dr. Patel: But we are also with you.

Prabhupāda: No, I mean to say, those who are outsiders. In Los Angeles, so many scientists used to come, so after talking with them, I used to say, "You are demon, you are rascal." And they tolerated. (everyone laughing) And they remained for two hours talking and then taking prasādam. They were happy that I called them demons and rascals.

Morning Walk -- December 19, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: In London I have seen almost all the churches are vacant.

Dr. Patel: On Sundays? I don't know now. When I was a student I used to see them full, overflowing practically. Because they were beaten down by war very recently, they did not forget God then.

Harikeśa: On Sundays they're pretty full. For a couple of hours they're pretty full.

Dr. Patel: In the morning.

Harikeśa: Then in the afternoon they're vacant. That's when they get their big collection, big collection on Sunday.

Dr. Patel: Sir, everywhere it is the church which has actually distorted the message.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Dr. Patel: It is the church which has distorted the message. You see the Christ's message is distorted by the church; our Kṛṣṇa's message is distorted by our temples, sort of a thing.

Prabhupāda: Why temples? Even your big, big political leaders, they distort. Why do you blame the temples?

Dr. Patel: But Christianity is distorted by the...

Prabhupāda: Everyone. That is going on.

Page Title:Students (Conversations 1975)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:23 of Mar, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=149, Let=0
No. of Quotes:149