So actually he was going to be a pir. They renounced the family life and became gosvāmīs. "So I am sacrificing my life for God, and you just help me in this service. And not only that, you get some material profit also. I have got this, that, about..." First of all, he offered five thousand, five thousand gold mudras (?). But when he was not very happy, then he offered ten thousand. In this way, it was settled and the superintendent of jail let him go. And he inquired from Sanātana Gosvāmī, "What I shall explain to the Nawab when he'll ask me explanation, call for explanation? You are going." So he gave him a trick that... Formerly, people used to evacuate on the field. So he was imprisoned. So he wanted to evacuate in the field. And the superintendent of jail was accompanying him. In this way, he fabricated story and he told that "When he was evacuating, immediately he jumped over the river and the river's waves were so strong, he was carried away. I could not find him." So in this way, Sanātana Gosvāmī escaped after bribing.
Story (Lectures, Other)
Lectures
Nectar of Devotion Lectures
So then... I have heard from a very reliable officer, Mr. MacPherson, in Allahabad... He was my... At that, at that, at that time, I was keeping a drug shop. So he was my customer. And when he was coming, he was talking with me many past stories of the war. So once he narrated... He was also one of the commanders. That the First War, Marshall Foch? He was in Second World War, or First? I think First World War. Or First? I think First World War.
The material world, because everything is temporary, so sometimes when we are fed up with material activities, we stop to do it and become a renouncer. Bhoga-tyāga. "Grapes are sour." You know the story. A jackal entered into a vine orchard, and it was very high. It began to jump to get the grapes, but when he failed, he said, "Oh, these grapes are sour. It is nonsense." (laughter) The karmīs are like that, that they work very hard, but they cannot relish any permanent happiness. That is not possible. Therefore they give up. Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. They give up these worldly activities as false. Jagan mithyā. But they do not relish anything. Actually they do not relish what is Brahma-sukha. Therefore again they fall down. Many... The jñānī sannyāsīs, they give up this world as jagat mithyā, "This world is false." They take sannyāsa. Then, after working for some time, they again take to political activities, philanthropic activities. They see that "The people are suffering for want of education, for want of food. So let me engage in providing food, shelter, education." But this education, food problem is there in the material world. The Māyāvādī sannyāsīs, if they think that this world is false, why he is agitated by the sufferings of the world? It is false. But the thing is that in the spiritual field, because they have no engagement, advanced engagement... (aside:) Come this side. Or do it in this. From the back.
The rascals, they will not understand Kṛṣṇa as Kṛṣṇa says. The rascal will mislead other and mislead himself. He'll go himself to hell and he'll drag all others to the hell. This is going on. This is going on. Everything is there, very plain and clear. One has to act according to that. He gets the benefit. But they, they will not allow. These rascal leaders, they'll not allow. They will be represent Kṛṣṇa as something else. The, the only business is to kill Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Not to accept Kṛṣṇa is fact. All the big commentaries on Bhagavad-gītā, you'll see. They're simply trying to make Kṛṣṇa is not a fact. It is some fictitious. It is some story, mental speculation. This is their business. Demonic. So the condition is very, I mean to say, dangerous. People are being misled.
There are many stories. We have got practical experience that Akbar Shah inquired from his, one of his very confidential ministers that "How long a man is sexually inclined?" So the minister replied that "Up to the point of death." He replied. The Akbar did not believe it. But the minister sometimes took him to a man who was goi..., just going to die, and the minister requested Akbar Shah to get with him his young daughter. So when the Akbar Shah and his daughter was entering, the man on the death bed, he was looking to the young girl, not to the Akbar. So he pointed out, "Just see." And he was convinced, "Yes." So the sex life is so strong that you cannot be satisfied. If you re..., remain in material existence, then this sex desire will never be satisfied. But it can be satisfied only when you come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Just like it has become in our country. Our love is now for material happiness. Poverty for the last two thousand years or one, little above, one thousand years, India was foreign-subjugated. So they are now thinking that some way or other, if we can become like Americans, skyscraper buildings, our life will be successful. So they have... Artificially, now... They're killing their own culture and trying to imitate. This is artificial. But this artificial way, one cannot be happy. They'll be frustrated. Just (like) the Americans have become frustrated. They have got enough. What is the skyscraper buildings in Bombay? They have got hundred times skyscraper buildings in New York. Hundred times. And what is this skyscraper? Say, twenty stories? There are hundred and four,-five stories. When I first went to New York I saw one building, Empire, Empire State?
Yes. It was hundred and two stories. Now the others, they have increased to hundred and four,-five. So... But why these American boys are frustrated. Their fathers, their grandfathers have got enough money, enough skyscraper buildings, but they are not satisfied. They don't want to work like their father and grandfather. They've left. I have got many students, my disciples, their father, very rich man, industrialist, lawyers. But they don't like.
So actual life is that there should be no work. Why? Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ (Bs. 5.37). Just like Kṛṣṇa is displaying how He's happy with His cowherds boys, with the gopīs, with His father, with His mother. And those who are dependent on Kṛṣṇa, they are so confident. Just like the cowherds boys. Kṛṣṇa goes every day to the forest, and there is some demon comes, and simply the cowherds boys, "No, there is Kṛṣṇa. We don't care for this demon." You see? And the demon is killed, and they come home and they narrate the story to their mother: "O my dear mother, Kṛṣṇa did this wonderful thing." The mother is also very appreciative: "Oh, our Kṛṣṇa is so nice. He can do wonderful. He must be some demigod," like that, gossiping. So actually this is life. This Vṛndāvana life is actual life.
When Kṛṣṇa was fighting with Bhīṣma... You know the story, that Bhīṣma was criticized by Duryodhana: "My dear Grandfather, you are not fighting in full strength with Arjuna because the, on the other side, they are your grandsons, and you have got, you have got very natural affection for them. So I think you are not fighting according to your strength. Otherwise, they would have been finished by this time." So Bhīṣma also could understand that, his criticism. Then he promised immediately that: "Tomorrow I shall finish all these five brothers. Will that be happy for you? So I am keeping five arrows to be used tomorrow for killing these five brothers." So Duryodhana became doubtful. So he request grandfather, "My dear grandfather, may I keep these five arrows with me so that you can take it from me tomorrow and use it?" "All right, you keep it."
So next morning, when Bhīṣmadeva asked that "Where are those five arrows? Give me," So Duryodhana said, "Sir, this is the story. It has been taken away by Arjuna." So he could understand it is the trick of Kṛṣṇa. So immediately he, out of devotion, became angry. Yes. So devotion, devotional service can be executed in anger also. Not by simply flowers. If he, there is a devotee, he can serve Kṛṣṇa by becoming angry. So he promised immediately that "Today Kṛṣṇa has to break His promise." Because Kṛṣṇa promised that "Although I shall be in the battlefield, I shall simply drive your chariot, but I shall not fight." That was His promise. Now Bhīṣma said that "Kṛṣṇa has broken my promise. So I shall fight in this way today that either Kṛṣṇa has to break His own promise or His friend Arjuna will be killed." Two alternatives.
So why I am put into this miserable condition of life although I do not know, I do not want it? So what I am? What is my position? That is Bhāgavata decision. The, you don't forget yourself by simply satisfying your senses. Kāmasya nendriya-prītir (SB 1.2.10). Don't be satisfied simply when you see that your senses are satisfied. No. Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā. One should be forward to understand what he actually is. The same, same story, that I am simply seeing dreams, day and night. I am seeing, that's a fact. Law of identity, I am. Then what I am? I'm simply seeing these dreams? What is my actual life? That is tattva-jijñāsā. What is that? Read it. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇanu-śīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167).
You know the story of Yamala-arjuna. So they were given the place in the dhāma, Vṛndāvana-dhāma, as a tree, but they had to waste time for so many hundreds years. Although there is guarantee, anyone who is in dhāma, he'll get the shelter of the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa, but not... Why should we waste your time to become a tree or a monkey or a hog or a dog? Don't waste. You should be very careful. Don't commit any offense in the dhāma. Then one life is sufficient to go back to home, back to Godhead. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaun... (BG 4.9). If you actually live in Vṛndāvana carefully, without committing any offense and sinful life, then in this life you are going to Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ. To live in Vṛndāvana means to know Kṛṣṇa—how He appeared there, how He played here, how He executed His pastimes here. Janma karma divyam. These are all celestial, all transcendental. Jaya rādhā-mādhava kuñja-vihārī.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the best injection. Take this injection and become free from all sinful reactions. Go on.
Pradyumna: "In this connection, Śukadeva Gosvāmī speaks in the Sixth Canto of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Second Chapter, 17th verse, about the story of Ajāmila, who began life as a fine and dutiful brāhmaṇa but in his young manhood became wholly corrupted by a prostitute. At the end of his wicked life, just by calling the name of Nārāyaṇa (or Kṛṣṇa), he was saved, despite so much sin. Śukadeva points out that austerity..."
Prabhupāda: Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. That is stated the Bhagavad-gītā. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya. A little Kṛṣṇa consciousness can save you from the greatest danger. The example is this Ajāmila. Ajāmila, he was the greatest sinful man. Similarly, Jagāi-Mādhāi. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice that from the life of Ajāmila we understand, simply by uttering the name of Nārāyaṇa at the time of his death, he became eligible to be promoted to the Vaikuṇṭhaloka.
So Cupid, Cupid is one of the agents of this material, illusory energy, but if we are perfectly in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, this Cupid cannot pierce with our arrows, with his arrows. That is not possible. As Yamunācārya says, that tadāvadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-pa..., yadāvadhi mama cetaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindo... So to a devotee... Just like Haridāsa Ṭhākura. You know the story of Haridāsa Ṭhākura. Haridāsa Ṭhākura was young man, and the Māyā, and a prostitute, they came, young prostitute, nicely dressed, and proposed her desire. Haridāsa Ṭhākura said, "Yes, please sit down. I shall fulfill your desire. Let me finish my chanting." Just see. At dead of night, a young man, Haridāsa Ṭhākura; in front, there is a beautiful young girl; there is nobody else; and she's proposing. But still, he's steady, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare. So Cupid cannot pierce. This is the example. There may be thousands of beautiful women before a devotee, but that does not disturb his mind. He sees they're all energies of Kṛṣṇa. "They are gopīs of Kṛṣṇa. They are enjoyable by Kṛṣṇa. I have to serve them. They're gopīs.
There is a story, it is very instructive story, that Nārada Muni was passing to go to Vaikuṇṭha, and on the way one very learned scholar, brāhmaṇa, met him, and he inquired from Narada Muni where he was going. Nārada Muni said that "I am going to see Nārāyaṇa, my Lord." So the brāhmaṇa asked him, "Oh, you are going to meet Nārāyaṇa. Will you kindly inquire for me when my..., when I shall be liberated." Nārada Muni said, "Yes, I shall inquire." Similarly, on the way, he met one cobbler. He also inquired Nārada Muni where he was going, and he said, will you kindly inquire from Lord Nārāyaṇa when he would be liberated? So when Nārada Muni met Nārāyaṇa, so he inquired—because he's saintly person; he promised—that "Such and such brāhmaṇa inquired like this, and the, and a cobbler also inquired like this." So Nārāyaṇa said, "The, this cobbler will be liberated in this life, and that brāhmaṇa will take some time, some many births."
So every... Stenayor sa ucyate. Everyone in this material world, one who has no Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he's a thief, he's a rogue, he's a robber. Everyone. Just like the Americans. They occupied the land of America by killing the Red Indians, and now they are claiming proprietor, and there is immigration department: "Nobody can come here. It is our land." This is going on. The first thing is stolen property, everyone. There is another story. A group of thieves stolen some things, and when they were dividing, one of them: "Kindly, morally divide. Morally divide. Honestly divide." The thing is taken dishonestly, and they are dividing honestly. This is going on, whole world. Everything is taken dishonestly, and when there is question of division, the United Nations honestly divides it. The association of the honest men, United Nations. All plunderers, rogues, thieves, and they have made an association, United Nations. You see. Basically they're all rogues and thieves. As soon as there is opportunity, they'll commit all criminal activities. And they're doing. So this is not philosophy. So here happiness by material possession is the happiness of the rogues and the thieves. One who is happy by possessing some material things, he is no better than rogue and thief. And one who is renouncing, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, he is a fool. Because how, what you are renouncing? When did you possess it? If you possess something, then you can say, "I renounce it." But if you do not possess, then where is the question of renouncement? So both of them are wrong.
This is stated, the asuric vicāra. "Today I have got so much money. And tomorrow I am going to increase it to so much." Ko 'sti āḍhyo 'yam. "I am the richest." This is karmī's conception. And jñānīs, because they're fed up, so they say, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā: "This world is false." Grapes are sour. You know the story, jackal? He wanted to take the grapes, jumping, jumping, jumping. When he could not get it, he says, "Oh, grapes are sour. I have no necessity. I have no necessity." Similarly these rascals, they renounce the world. What renouncement? What you had? You are renouncing? This is also wrong. The real happiness is sevā. "This is Kṛṣṇa's, and it must be used for Kṛṣṇa's purpose." That is real happiness. Actual, that is the fact. The same example: If you pick up one hundred rupees' note, if you pocket it, then you are a thief. If you don't touch it, then it will be lost; somebody will take it. You pick up and give to the original proprietor, that will be satisfaction. That is Vaiṣṇava philosophy. We do not say anything bad. We do not say. That is Rūpa Gosvāmī's formula. That is Vaiṣṇava formula.
This Mahārāja Bhārata was the son of Ṛṣabhadeva and under whose name, after whose name this planet is called Bhārata-varsa. This, the same Bhārata Mahārāja, he left this world at very young age, twenty-four years. Young wife, children, kingdom, everything he left. Then he developed some attachment for a young deer. So he had to take the birth in the shape of a deer. The next birth he remained silent, Jaḍa Bhārata. So (the) Jaḍa Bhārata story is there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Very enlightening.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
So tvāṁ śīla-rūpa-caritaiḥ parama-prakṛṣṭaiḥ. Parama means highest class superiority which is not possible for ordinary men. They take it as miracle or something, a story or allegory. But actually it is not. Just like when Lord Rāmacandra appeared, He made a bridge between India and Ceylon. There is no history in the world that one has made bridge over the ocean, Indian Ocean. And how the bridge was made? Not in the present, modern way, that making concrete on the ground and then pillars and then... No. The stones were floating. The Rāmacandra assistants, all the monkeys, what kind of engineers are they? They could bring, order, "Bring some stone." They had very good health.
Suppose a man is trying by his, following the religious principle to go to other planets. What is the purpose of going to other planets, heavenly planets? It is for having a better facility for sense enjoyment. Just like, according to Hindu conception, the heavenly planet, Indraloka, it is said there are very beautiful women and very beautiful gardens, and they can drink soma rasa and enjoy life for ten thousands of years, and their one day is equal to six months of this planet. So opulence, life, enjoyment, far, far greater than this; therefore they want to go to the heavenly planets. Similarly... These are facts. These are not, I mean to say, stories, or fiction. These are facts. Similarly, in the Koran also there is such injunction that if one follows the principles of Koran, in the next life they'll go to Hur(?), the land of the Hu(?), the same beautiful woman. Because we have got this material idea, sense gratification, and the last word in the sense gratification is sex life. That's all. So if we think that "Going to that place, I will have free sex life and beautiful man, beautiful woman, and nice drinking, nice eating," oh, so materialists, they think, "This is perfection of life. This is perfection of life."
Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, presenting Himself. He was a learned scholar, undoubtedly, very learned scholar. In His youthful age He was known as Nimāi Paṇḍita. This paṇḍita title, especially the brāhmaṇas are given this paṇḍita title. But He was specifically known as Paṇḍita, Nimāi Paṇḍita, very good scholar. And He defeated the Keśava Kashmiri, a great, renowned scholar of Kashmir. The Kashmir country is mentioned in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also. It is a very old country. And there were many learned scholars. And one scholar came to Navadvīpa to defeat the paṇḍitas, the learned scholars of Navadvīpa, but he was defeated by a young boy, Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Nimāi Paṇḍita was at that time only sixteen years old. But He defeated only in composition, Sanskrit composition. The Sanskrit composition, there is rules and regulations. So you know the story. He pointed out many defects in the verses composed by the Keśava Kashmiri. So he was defeated.
There is a very nice story in this connection. There was a physician and his servant. So one day the physician was called by some person to treat his horse. So when the physician came, he asked, "What is the matter?" He says that "The horse has suddenly swollen his throat. So please treat." Then the physician took a hammer and strongly struck the swollen portion, and it was at once cured. The servant saw, "So this is the process of curing swollen parts of the body." So on that very day, he resigned his service and he thought that "Now I have learned how to cure swollen parts of the body," and whenever he was called to treat such disease, he used to hammer over that swollen part and the patient died. So when he came to his former master, "Sir, you cured that horse, the swollen part, by beating hammer, but when I treat, it dies, the patient dies. What is the matter?" So he explained, "You nonsense, the swollen is not cured by beating. That was a special case. The horse took a squash while he was in the garden, and he could not swallow it up. Therefore it was swollen. So I struck therefore, and it was broken, and the same thing, his swollenness, cured. But you foolish, you are simply striking on swollen parts?"
The material agent, Kṛṣṇa's prakṛti, or the material nature is supplying you ingredients. But Kṛṣṇa is sanctioning, and you are desiring. You are desiring, "I want this." Kṛṣṇa says, "No, you will not be happy," but you insist: "No. I want this." "All right. You take this." Kṛṣṇa's material energy is there; He is supplying the ingredients. "All right. Take these ingredients. What do you want?" "I want a three-hundred-story skyscraper building." "All right. Take it. Take it." The ingredients... The sky... You cannot create the ingredients. The ingredients is kṣitir-ap-tej-marud-van (?). You take earth, water, fire, air, and combine it and make a skyscraper building. But the ingredients does not belong to you. It is Kṛṣṇa's. Kṣitir-ap-tej-marud-van (?). Prakṛtir me aṣṭadhā. Bhinnā prakṛtir me aṣṭadhā. "They are My property. That is Mine. Actually it is Mine." You cannot create water, you cannot create fire, you cannot create earth. It is God's property. You take it and satisfy your senses. That's all. That's your business. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmaṇī sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Prakṛti is supplying. But how prakṛti is supplying? How the material nature is supplying you ingredients? Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). "Under My direction." So what is the difficulty? And how can you become God? How you can become greater than God? This is all foolishness. You are completely under the control. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You are completely under the prakṛti, this material nature.
So this janmādy asya śloka has been interpreted in various ways, but the most important commentator is Vyāsadeva. He's the original writer of Vedānta-sūtra. Not only he's the writer of Vedānta-sūtra, he's the writer of all Vedic literature. Vedic literature means four Vedas: Sāma, Atharva, Yajur, and Ṛk. And from the Vedas, there are Upaniṣads. There are 108 Upaniṣads. And there are Purāṇas. Purāṇas means those who will not understand the Vedic aphorisms and the Upaniṣads, statement of the Upaniṣads, for them, for ordinary men, there are many stories. The stories are concluded with the Vedānta-sūtra. Then there is Mahābhārata. You have heard all these names. Mahābhārata, the history, history of Indian royalty. The Mahābhārata is the history of fighting between two groups of royal family, the Pāṇḍavas and the Kurus. And in that Mahābhārata you'll find all kinds of sociology, politics, religion, and military science. Everything is complete there. And in that Mahābhārata is put this Bhagavad-gītā. The Bhagavad-gītā is only a portion of the Mahābhārata. This was also written by Vyāsadeva. But at last, he was not satisfied. Or even after writing so many big literatures, he was not satisfied. So one day he was sitting very morose, and in the same time, his spiritual master, Nārada, came to see him. Because Nārada is not an ordinary spiritual master. He could understand that "My disciple is sitting morose. So I must go there and give him some encouragement because he's a great personality. He is giving human society so many nice things, but he's not very happy in his mood. So I shall go and give him some encouragement."
That is not Vedic culture. In the śāstra it is said that śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). Puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. In this material world, without any spiritual knowledge, if one is adored, it is just like the small animals in the jungle is praising the big animal, the lion. The lion is an animal and the small rabbit or other animals, they are also animals. So the rabbits are very much afraid of lion. That is a fact. And they worship the... This morning we were discussing one story, how a rabbit entangled one lion and saved his life. So here in this material world, similarly, the small animal may be afraid of the big animal, but the big animal or small animal, they are animals. They are animals. Therefore Bhāgavata says the small animal may eulogize the big animal. That does not mean the big animal is of any importance. He is animal, that's all. Similarly, our position is that we do not go... We may not go to the big animal, but we may go to like Caitanya Mahāprabhu. Then we will be benefited. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, if we approach Caitanya Mahāprabhu... That is caitanya, living, supreme living being.
Now these Gosvāmīs, the Sanātana Gosvāmī... There is a nice story about Sanātana Gosvāmī, of whom we are now studying. Sanātana Gosvāmī and Rūpa Gosvāmī, two brothers, they went to Vṛndāvana for devotional service. So their all business was... Rūpa Gosvāmī, especially, he was always engaged in writing books. And when he was hungry, he went to some householder: "Give me a piece of bread." And everyone at Vṛndāvana... They were leaders. All the Vṛndāvana inhabitants, they took... Even their household quarrels, they used to represent, "Swamijī, this is our position. Please settle up." So whatever decision he would give to the villagers, they will accept. Their court was Swamijī, Rūpa Gosvāmī. So he was so lovable. So one day Rūpa Gosvāmī was thinking that "If I could get some, I mean to say, commodities for cooking, then I would have invited Sanātana Gosvāmī to take some prasādam." He thought like that.
So then Sanātana Gosvāmī was inquiring, "Where did you get all these things, so nice things, you have prepared in this jungle? How did you get?" So he narrated the story, "Yes, in the morning I thought that 'If somebody sends me something...' So by Kṛṣṇa's grace, somebody, a nice girl, a very beautiful girl, and She brought all these things." "Who?" He began to state about the girl's beauty. Then Sanātana Gosvāmī said, "Oh, I have never seen such beautiful girl. How...?" "Yes, I have also never seen." "Ohhh. Then She must be Rādhārāṇī. She must be Rādhā. You have taken service from Rādhārāṇī? Ohhh. You have murdered me. We don't want to take any service from Kṛṣṇa, and He has taken the opportunity, sent us... We want to simply give our service, not any exchange. Oh, you have done a great mistake. Rādhārāṇī has taken this opportunity." So he began to cry that "We have taken service from Kṛṣṇa. We have given Her trouble." This is pure devotee. They were very sorry that "Kṛṣṇa was troubled to send me all these goods."
So these are facts. These are not stories. But foolish people, they have no knowledge or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Be in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. All your material necessities will be... But don't be extravagant. Take only whatever you need to maintain your body and soul together and execute this... Make this primary and other things secondary. Kṛṣṇa will supply you. But if you want to make your sense gratification, if you want to accept more than what you need, then you'll be in trouble. That is māyā. So Kṛṣṇa has provided for everyone, everything. There is no need of being anxious. But that does not mean that I shall feel, "Oh, I shall do everything and anything." No.
So these things are going on. Not now. Now the number has increased. It is always. So long the world is there, the material world is there, this sort of thing is going on. So māyā-mugdha, illusioned by this external energy, they have no memory that how they are connected with the Supreme Lord. They have no memory. They have forgotten. That there is something like God, altogether they have forgotten by the illusion. Yes. Māyā-mugdha jīvera nāhi kṛṣṇa smṛti-jñāna. And just to revive their memory, Kṛṣṇa... Jīvere kṛpāya kaila kṛṣṇa veda-purāṇa. Veda-purāṇa. Veda means the Vedic literatures. Veda, real literal meaning is veda means knowledge. Vetti veda vido jñāne. There is a Sanskrit root, vid-dhātu. From that vid-dhātu, veda. Veda means knowledge. And Purāṇa, Purāṇa means supplementary, Vedic instruction described in story form. That is called Purāṇa, story. This Bhāgavata is also one of the Mahā-purāṇa. Mahā-purāṇa means the science of Kṛṣṇa is described in story form. This is called Purāṇa. People better understands in stories, in history.
Teṣāṁ satata-yuktānām. Those... The spiritual master's duty is to lead a person, a forgotten soul, to the right way in terms of the śāstra and scripture, and when he begins sincerely and with love and seriously, then the next stage is that God within, who is sitting within you, He'll dictate, "Yes, you do like this. You do like this." So in every respect the Lord is trying to help us. But we are so much stubborn, we don't like to take advantage of this position. Oh, he says, "Why shall I take all this? I am very happy." There is a story in the Bhāgavata that once Indra, the king of heaven, he was condemned by his spiritual master, Bṛhaspati, that "You are so foolish. You should have become a hog." So he became a hog. So after some days, when the throne of the heavenly kingdom was vacant, Brahmā went to reclaim this hog, Indra, that "Come to your place." So when the hog was requested that "You are Indra. Why you are suffering? Now you come. I have come to take you," so the hog says, "Oh! I do not know what I am, Indra. I have got my responsibility. I cannot leave this place." Just see. Even the hog—you can just imagine what is the standard of his living—he thinks also that "I am very happy. I am very happy." The stool-eating and this nasty place, and "Oh, I have got a very comfortable life." So this is the, I mean to say, prakṣepātmikā.
So everything was spoken that is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that "This child will be like this, like this," and it was foretold that the at the last stage of his life, he will be cursed by a brāhmaṇa and he will die out of snake bite. "This child will die by snake bite." That was also foretold. And because the brāhmaṇa cursed, a brāhmaṇa boy cursed him that "Within seven days the king will die by snake bite..." That's a long story. Therefore, Mahārāja Parīkṣit, he was not very old, but he understood that "I will have to die by snake bite, so let me get free from this royal responsibilities." He at once handed over his kingdom to his son and went to the bank of the Ganges and sat down there tight, without taking any food and drink, for seven days, and he heard Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam from the authoritative source of Śukadeva Gosvāmī, and he died at the end of seven days. A snake came and bit him.
So we arrest you." Then they said, "No, sir. We have not done anything such. He faints like that while chanting. Now He'll be... Very soon He'll get up, because we are also chanting. Hearing, hearing, He will get up." So in this way, when He came to His consciousness, the Muslims, these Pathan soldiers, they were very happy to see Him. So there was a Mullah. So he talked with Him. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu... I am summarizing the story; this story is very big. He talked with that Mullah, and He proved from the Koran that there is kṛṣṇa-bhakti. He proved from the Koran that there is kṛṣṇa-bhakti, there is hint of kṛṣṇa-bhakti. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says here also that indirectly... When I speak of Kṛṣṇa, you should know, Kṛṣṇa means the Supreme Personality of Godhead. You may call Him by any other name; that is a different thing. But Kṛṣṇa means the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said,
- mukhya-gauṇa-vṛtti kiṁvā anvaya vyatireke
- vedera pratijñā kevala kahaye kṛṣṇake
You take any literature, any Vedic literature, religious literature, you'll find that the whole literature, whole knowledge is aiming at Kṛṣṇa. That is the purport of all Vedas and religious scripture.
So somebody may say, somebody questioned that "How is that, sixteen thousand? He was very lusty," somebody says, poor fund of knowledge. Or "It is simply story." No. It is... Kṛṣṇa is neither lusty, nor it is story. He is Supreme, full in Himself. He did not require even one wife. Because we require the association of wife or girl because we feel the need, if God is in need, then He is not God. He must be full. But just because His devotees wanted Him her husband, therefore He played the part of a perfect husband. That is the position. Nobody, no husband, can expand himself in many ways. Suppose one has got many girls friend. Oh, he can go to one girl friend, not to many. This is. Another point is that īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe arjuna tiṣṭhati: (BG 18.61) "The Lord is situated in everyone's heart." So if the girls prayed God that "You become our husband," so if God comes out of the heart and becomes her husband, what is the difficulty for God? So not sixteen thousand, if He would marry sixteen millions of wife, still it was insufficient, because He is everywhere. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). This is called vaibhava-vilāsa, vaibhava-vilāsa, inconceivable. Lord Caitanya is presenting the real, factual features of Kṛṣṇa, what is Kṛṣṇa.
So Lord Caitanya confirms that how many līlāvatāras, incarnations, are there. We want to everything make limited because we are all limited sense, limited understanding, limited... Everything is limited, and God is unlimited. That we do not understand. We try to understand God with our limited means. That is our folly. Therefore we don't believe. "Oh, God is doing like that? Oh, God is lifting hill? How it is possible? This is story." How? Why it is story? God is omnipotent, and God cannot lift a hill? He is floating so many planets in the air, weightlessness, and He cannot lift a hill? Because I do not believe He is God. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā: (BG 9.11) "Foolish rascals, they consider Me as ordinary man: 'Not Kṛṣṇa, but me. You offer your respect to me. I am God. I am competitor Kṛṣṇa.' " So these are foolishness. He is unlimited; His everything, He is unlimited.
In the Bhāgavata you'll find, svīkāra eva hy udhvāhe: "In the Kali-yuga, marriage will be performed simply by agreement." Just see. Another... Lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dhāraṇam: "People will think by keeping long hairs they will be very beautiful." It is stated in Bhāgavata. They'll look very beautiful. Lāvaṇyaṁ keśa-dhāraṇam. It is written there if you see. It is not story. Svīkāra eva hy udvāhe. Dāmpatye ratim eva hi: "And husband and wife relation means sex. That's all." If the husband has got sex power, then there will be no divorce. These are all written there. Simply sex life, husband and wife relationship. Simply sex life. Vipratve sūtram eva hi: "And one will be considered a brāhmaṇa simply by this thread." These are all written there. A two-cent-worth thread, you get it..., "Oh, you have got thread. Oh, you are a brāhmaṇa." That's all.
Then it is accepted, not that mental speculationist's theory, "I think this. I think that..." No. Just the same example I have several times cited before you, that the law court, they give evidences from the lawbook, sections from the lawbook. Similarly, the process is whenever we speak something transcendental subject, if we can pick up evidences from Vedic literatures... There are many authentic Vedic literatures. They are accepted by the spiritual societies. And one's learning is proved if he can give evidences from these Vedic literatures. Similarly Lord Caitanya, whatever He is speaking, He's giving immediately references from Vedic literature. So, so far the existence of the spiritual world and different planets, spiritual planets, Vaikuṇṭha and Kṛṣṇaloka, one may think... Of course, those who have no knowledge, they may think that these are all stories. No, they are not stories. They are actual facts, and Lord Caitanya is giving evidences from Brahma-saṁhitā, from Padma Purāṇa, and similar other Vedic literatures.
There are innumerable universes, and each universe contains one Brahmā, one Śiva, one sun, one moon, one Indra, like that, officers just like. So there are innumerable universes, so innumerable Brahmā, innumerable Rudra, innumerable suns, innumerable moons, everything innumerable. But each brahmāṇḍa contains one each. So how it happens? It is explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So Lord Caitanya is reciting that story.
- eka-dina dvārakāte kṛṣṇa dekhibāre
- brahmā āilā—dvāra-pāla jānāila kṛṣṇere
One day, when Kṛṣṇa was king at Dvārakā, with sixteen thousand queens, so one day Brahmā of this universe came to see Him. Brahmā āilā—dvāra-pāla jānāila kṛṣṇere. And as... The same etiquette was there also. This is also coming by paramparā. Just like a big man or a big officer, he has got his doorman; you have to present your card. I do not know what is the system here, but in India that is the system. You have to send your card, and the if doorman takes away that card and the permission comes, then you can go in and see. Similarly, when Brahmā came, he sent his card, informed the doorman, "Please inform Kṛṣṇa that I have come to see Him."
Kṛṣṇa has come just like a cowherd boy." You see? Therefore he... Kṛṣṇe jānāñā dvārī brahmāre lañā gelā. Kṛṣṇa inquired, "Which Brahmā has come?" Now the doorman takes him inside, and he enters Kṛṣṇa's room, offers his respect. Kṛṣṇera caraṇe brahmā daṇḍavat kailā. Now, if Kṛṣṇa is ordinary person, as the foolish rascals think, that avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā: (BG 9.11) "The foolish rascals deride at Me as ordinary man," how it is possible that Brahmā is offering his respect to Kṛṣṇa? If you think that "These are all stories..." Not stories. Do you think Caitanya Mahāprabhu is speaking some stories, some fabricated stories, to get His followers? Do you think like that? No. Lord Caitanya, such a great devotee... Apart from His feature of incarnation, take Him as a great devotee, learned. He was vastly learned, and nobody could surpass Him in His learning in those days. He defeated... When He was a sixteen-years-old boy, He defeated the greatest scholar, Keśava Kāśmīrī. His name was Keśava. He came to Navadvīpa from Kashmir to talk with scholars. Formerly, as nowadays you have got—what is called?—champion, champion. What is the meaning of champion?
Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu the disciple of Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī is quoting one verse from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam in which it is said that simply for understanding, if you waste your time, but if you do not practically apply yourself, then it is simply a waste of time. There is a very nice story. In our college days in logic class of Professor Purnachandra Sen, he cited a very nice example, that a student approached his teacher and the contract was that he wanted to become a law student, lawyer, and the contracts were that when the student will appear in the court after being duly qualified as lawyer, then he will pay the remuneration of the student. This was the contract between the... So that the teacher may very quickly make him qualified. So teacher agreed, "Yes. I shall make you qualified within one year. So you have to pay me five million dollars," like that, something. So when he was qualified, passed his law examination, he said, "Now you come. You practice in the court." So he said, "No. I am not going to practice." "Then pay me." "How can I pay? If I practice, then I'll pay, but I am not going to practice."
Sri Isopanisad Lectures
There is a nice poetry made by a great poet, Kālidāsa. It is called Kumāra-sambhava. This Kumāra-sambhava, we had our prescribed books in our intermediate I.A. class, Kumāra-sambhava. Kumāra-sambhava, the fact of the Kumāra-sambhava is that when Pārvatī suicided herself in the Dakṣa-yajña, then Lord Śiva was very angry. He left this world. That's a Dakṣa-yajña story. You might have heard from Bhāgavatam. So he was engaged in meditation, and there was fight between the demons and the demigods. They wanted a very nice general. So it was concluded that with the semina of Lord Śiva, if a son is born, then he'll be able to fight this great fight between the demons. So Lord Śiva was in meditation, completely naked. So this Pārvatī was sent to worship the Śiva-liṅga just to agitate him for sex. But he was not agitated. He was still silent. So that particular instance is given by Kālidāsa, "Here is a dhīra." Dhīra. He is naked. A young girl is worshiping the genital, touching it; still he's not agitated. So that is the example of being dhīra. Dhīra means there may be causes for agitation, but one shall not be agitated. That is called dhīra. In spite of presence of the agent of agitating... Just like there is a very nice foodstuff, but still, my tongue should not be agitated. There is a very nice girl or boy, still, I shall not be agitated sexually. In this way, when you are able to control the six agitating elements, then you become dhīra. Dhīra. Not that he had, Lord Śiva had no sexual potency, but he was dhīra. That is the example. Just like Kṛṣṇa danced with so many girls, but there was no sex appetite. That is called dhīra.
Any other process means covered. Just like the... You understand the sun planet from here. You are seeing the sun planet, that's a fact, but that does not mean you know what is actually the sun planet is, because you have no access to approach there. You may speculate, that's all. Speculation means the blind man seeing the elephant. Somebody thought, "Oh, it is just like a pillar." Yes. Big, big legs. Somebody understood the trunk. Somebody understood the ears, elephant. There is a story, some blind men studying the elephant. So they were giving different conclusions. Somebody: "The elephant is just like a pillar." Somebody says, "Elephant is just like big boat." Somebody is... Somebody is... But actually what is elephant, if you have no eyes to see, you can go on speculating. Therefore it is here said that pūṣann apāvṛṇu. "Please uncover the covering. Then I can see You."
Sri Brahma-samhita Lectures
The story is, the hunter, a hunter was killing in the forest many animals, because hunter's business is to kill. So, I am speaking very shortly. The story and the picture you will find in Back to Godhead recently published. And Nārada, because he is Vaiṣṇava, he is lover of Kṛṣṇa, when he was passing on the path in the forest, he saw that many half-dead animals are in torture, flapping. So, he was very kind. "Oh, who has done this mischief, these poor animals?" So he searched out the hunter, and he went there. The hunter asked me, "Oh, why you are disturbing my business?" So Nārada said, "My dear hunter, I have come to beg something from you." So hunter thought that "This mendicant is a beggar, so he might have come to me to beg some skins, or deer skin or tiger skin." So he said, "All right, please, let me do my business. I shall give you skins, whatever you like." Nārada said, "No, no, I don't want anything from you. I have come to request you something."
Just like Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya. You know, Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya was a great scholar, and Māyāvādī scholar, but Caitanya Mahāprabhu made him surrender unto Him. He became Caitanya Mahāprabhu's admirer, follower after being defeated in Vedānta-sūtra, understanding. That story is there in the Teachings of Lord Caitanya. So Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya became convinced that Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu is Kṛṣṇa. He wrote hundred verses about Caitanya Mahāprabhu, out of two verses are available in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta. He composed—he was a very learned scholar—he composed one hundred verses about Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and handed it over. But in all those verses he admitted that "You are Kṛṣṇa." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu, of course He was very much pleased that Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya understood, but because He was playing the part of an ācārya, He, externally He became, "What you have written all these things?" He immediately torn out and throw it away. But the devotees saved only two. That two verses are there.
Festival Lectures
Hiraṇyakaśipu became bitterest enemy of Viṣṇu because his brother Hiranyakṣa, he was killed by Viṣṇu taking the shape of Varāha. You know the story. Since then, Hiraṇyakaśipu was bitterest enemy. "Oh, He has, Viṣṇu has killed my brother. So He is my greatest enemy." So he won't hear anything about Viṣṇu. Any Viṣṇu devotee, he will punish him, even his own son. That was his policy. So he immediately called him, the teachers, and addressed him,
- brahma-bandho kim etat te
- vipakṣam śrayatāsatā
- asāraṁ grāhito bālo
- mām anādṛtya durmate
So here... Teachers are generally brāhmaṇas. Not generally. To become teacher is the business of the brāhmaṇas. Brāhmaṇa means they have got six kinds of... Everyone must have livelihood. This material world is that you must work; otherwise you cannot get your livelihood.
So still, they have no eyes to see that "Where we are going?" Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram punaḥ punaś carvita-carvanānām (SB 7.5.30). Because we cannot control our senses, we are driving, we are being pushed towards the darkest region of material existence, very hard to leave. Darkest region means that we are going to become animals next life. Because this is animalistic civilization. Nature gave us the opportunity to realize God, but God-realization is meant for human being. The human being, if he does not realize God, he's simply engaged in animalistic way of life—eating, sleeping, mating—then nature will call, "All right, sir, again become animal." Punar mūṣiko bhava: "Again become a mouse." You know this story? Punar mūṣiko bhava. There is a story. There is a very nice story. One rat, mouse, he came to a saintly person. Everyone comes to saintly person for some blessing, you see. Real blessing they don't want. Some material blessing. Real blessing, Kṛṣṇa, they don't want. If you give him some blessing that "You become very rich man and..." These... they'll be very much pleased. are all very well, this. So this mouse also came and begged the saintly person, "Sir, I am in difficulty. If you give me some blessing?"
So in this way Prahlāda Mahārāja talked with his father, and the father became more angry. Instead of taking the lesson ... Mūrkhāya upadeśa hi prakopāya na śāntaye. If you teach lesson to a foolish person, he'll be simply angry. He'll not take your lesson. How it is so? Payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam. If you keep a snake and if you want to make friendly behavior with him, that, "My dear snake, don't bite any more. I'll give you milk and banana. You eat here and stay here nicely," he'll not... His poison will increase, and one day he will... There is a story in the Hitopadeśa: one day, one... The same thing. So payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam. So these are lessons, stories. So his father, Hiranyakasipu, became more and more angry. So one day... Because after all, son and father... The son was simple boy. So one day he said, "Prahlāda, I shall now kill you. I shall see how your Kṛṣṇa saves you." So immediately, Prahlāda was seeing to the pillars of the hall. He was king. So Hiraṇyakaśipu asked him, "Is your God, Kṛṣṇa, in the pillar?" He said, "Yes, sir. Yes, my father, He is there." So immediately, with anger he broke the pillar and Nṛsiṁha-deva came out.
So this is very instructive struggle between the atheist and the theist. This story of Prahlāda Mahārāja is eternally true. There is always a struggle between the atheist and the theist. If a person becomes God conscious, Kṛṣṇa conscious, so he will find many enemies. Because the world is full of demons. What to speak of the devotee of Kṛṣṇa, even Kṛṣṇa, when He personally came, He had to kill so many demons. There was His maternal uncle, His mother's brother, very keenly related. Still, he wanted to kill Kṛṣṇa. As soon as any son was born to Devakī, immediately he killed, because he did not know who will be Kṛṣṇa. The prediction was that the eighth child of his sister will kill Kaṁsa. So he began to kill all the children. At last, Kṛṣṇa came. But he could not kill Kṛṣṇa. He was killed by Kṛṣṇa.
So we should take lessons from this story that even in dangerous position, we should not be forgetful of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa will save us. It is said in the Bhagavad-gītā,
- yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ
- manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ
- yasmin sthite guruṇāpi
- duḥkhena na vicālyate
- (Bg. 6.20-23)
Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice that if one gets Kṛṣṇa consciousness, yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ, aparaṁ lābhaṁ, any other benefit or gain is never considered. This is so nice. We are hankering after getting this, that, this, that, this, that, so many things. Dehi, dehi, dehi, dehi. But as soon as you get Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you will be satisfied. As Dhruva Mahārāja said, svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce (CC Madhya 22.42). Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. He was offered all benediction: "My dear Prahlāda, whatever you like, you can ask." He never asked anything. But he was so kind. That is the example of a Vaiṣṇava son in the family. Despite so much troubles given by his father, still, he begged from Narasiṁhadeva, "My Lord, my father has committed so many offenses.
So try to understand Kṛṣṇa philosophy very nicely, what is God. There are so many fictitious rogues, rascals, they are presenting themselves God. Try to understand what is God. Don't be misled. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). There is no other God except Kṛṣṇa. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, mām ekam, "Only unto Me surrender." And He has proved Himself that He is God. There are many so-called Gods, but they have not proved that they are God. No. God is one, and that is Kṛṣṇa. So this Kṛṣṇa, Lord Kṛṣṇa, when He was called by His father... People generally did not know that Kṛṣṇa is Vasudeva's son, but later on it was disclosed by talkings one after another. Then, when the fact was disclosed, then Kamsa arranged for a wrestling match, and Kṛṣṇa was called to fight. That you will read in our Kṛṣṇa book. It's a long story. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa went to His father's house, and He came to Kurukṣetra in the chariot. This is Ratha-yātrā. And Rādhārāṇī and the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana, their only business was... After Kṛṣṇa departed from Vṛndāvana to Mathurā and He never returned... Once He returned. So Mother Yaśodā, the cowherd boys and the gopīs, they lost their life and vital force.
Therefore generally, these boys and girls, they looked to some Indian swami to give them some enlightenment. Unfortunately, perhaps before me all the swamis who came here, they did not give them the right information. Perhaps they did not know it. So I am giving, delivering, the right message of spiritual life, Bhagavad-gītā. It is not manufactured by me or concocted by me. It is the old story, five thousand years. Why five thousands years? If we accept the statement of Bhagavad-gītā, this book of knowledge was first discussed with the sun-god some millions of years ago, so it is not a new thing. But in due course of time, sometimes it becomes covered. So Lord Caitanya, five hundred years ago, He wanted to give the spiritual knowledge of Kṛṣṇa consciousness throughout the whole world, and He has ordered to every Indian that anyone who has taken birth as a human being in India should preach this transcendental knowledge throughout the whole world. So perhaps previously..., means somebody have preached this Kṛṣṇa consciousness knowledge, but since 1965 or '66, since I started this movement from New York, generally all the boys and girls, younger section, they are very much kind upon me, and they are coming to me. And I am very glad to have them. I am just training them to the right spiritual standard of life and I am happy they are abiding by them.
Do you think that Brahman pleasure is ordinary, this material pleasure? To achieve a portion of Brahman pleasure, if they are kicking off all this material pleasure... Don't talk of ourselves. We are ordinary men. In the history we have got instances, that of Bharata Mahārāja. Bharata Mahārāja, under whose name this planet is called Bhāratavarṣa. That Bharata Mahārāja was the emperor of the whole world. And as emperor he had his beautiful wife, young children. But at the age of twenty-four years, just young man, he gave up everything. All right. This is very old story, of course, but you know Lord Buddha. He was also a prince. He was also prince, not ordinary man, and he was kṣatriya, and he was always enjoying with beautiful women. That is the palace pleasure accustomed in every, in Oriental countries, that in the palace there are many beautiful girls, they're always dancing and giving pleasure to the kings and the prince. So Lord Buddha was also in such pleasure, but he gave up everything and began to meditate.
So it is a long story, three, four chapters. Of course, it will take some time. I don't think you can give us so much time. The net, the result is that when Kṛṣṇa talked like this, then His father agreed not to perform the sacrifice. Because all the inhabitants of Vraja, Vṛndāvana, they are so much fond of Kṛṣṇa, whatever Kṛṣṇa will say, they will accept. So although Kṛṣṇa was a boy, He implored his father and other elderly gentlemen present there that "There is no need of performing this sacrifice." So they stopped sacrifice. As a result of this stopping, Indra became very much angry, and there was torrents of rain, incessant rain, and very vehemently. So the whole village and whole tract of land comprising the Vrajabhūmi, they became overflooded. And the cows and the animals and the people became too much afflicted. So they had no other source.
So today is the disappearance day of my Guru Mahārāja. As I told you that sādhavo jīva vā mara vā. There was a nice story the other day I told you that a sage is giving different kinds of blessings to different types of persons. So to a king's son, a prince, he blessed, rāja-putra ciraṁ jīva: "You are a king's son, a prince. You live forever." And muni-putra, the son of a saintly person, he blessed him, mā jīva mā jīva: "You don't live." Rāja-putra ciraṁ muni-putra mā jīva. And sādhu, devotees, he blessed him, jīva vā mara vā: "Either you live or you die, as you like." And there was a butcher, he blessed him, mā jīva mā mara: "You don't die, don't live." So these words are very significant. That I have already explained, still I am explaining. A prince, he's enjoying sense, that's all. He has got enough facility for sense enjoyment.
So when I met Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura... It is a long story, how I met him. One of my friends, he dragged me. (laughing) (laughter) I was at that time nationalist and manager in a big chemical factory. My age was about twenty-four years. So one of my friends, he asked me that "There is a nice sādhu, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura. He has come in Calcutta. So let us go and see." So I was reluctant. I thought just like so, there are so many sādhus. So I was not very much... Because I had very bad experience, not very good. So I said, "Oh these kind of sādhus, there are many." You'll be glad to know that even my in young age or early age—it was Kṛṣṇa's grace—even amongst my young friends, I was considered the leader. (laughing) (laughter) In my school days, in my college days, in my private friendship, some way or other I became their leader. And one astrologer sometimes he read my hand. He said in Hindi, kukum calena(?). Kukum calena means "Your hand speaks that your order will be executed."
The disciple, Abhaya Charan Dāsa, was to become His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, founder-ācārya of International Society, Krishna Consciousness." So whatever I appreciated forty years ago, the same principle is going on. We have no change. What I understood my spiritual master... Practically I met him in 1922, and this poetry was written in 1936. That means fourteen years before writing this poetry, I met my Guru Mahārāja in 1922. At that time I was quite a young man, twenty-five years old only, and I was posted in a very responsible position and as the office manager of Dr. Bose's laboratory. And I was fond of in those days, of Gandhi's movement. In 1922 I joined Gandhi's movement, and I gave up my educational career because one of the Gandhi's program was to boycott the universities. That's a very long story. And many students gave up their educational career and joined this Gandhi's movement, and I was one of them.
Kṛṣṇa, Govinda, ādi-puruṣa, the original person, He is taking various forms. Rāmādi-murtiṣu specially. Three Rāma: Paraśurāma, Balarāma, and Daśarathi Rāma. So this Rāma means enjoyment. So Kṛṣṇa's enjoyment... It does not mean, Kṛṣṇa has appeared as the boar; it does not mean He is suffering. Everything is ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis (Bs. 5.37). Sometimes a big man becomes a horse. It is... There is a very nice interesting story that the big Prime Minister Gladstone, English, English Prime Minister, Gladstone?
He wanted from his, all his disciples. Especially he stressed many times that "You do this. Whatever you have learned, you try to expand in English language." And in 1933, when he was in Rādhā-kunḍa, I was at that time Bombay in connection with my business life. So I came to see him, and one friend wanted to give some land in Bombay for starting Bombay Gauḍīya Maṭha. He's my friend. So that's a long story, but I wish to narrate this, the Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī's mission. So at that time one of my Godbrother was also present. He reminded me about my friend's donation, and Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura Prabhupāda immediately took up the land. He continued that "There is no need of establishing many temples. Better we publish some books." He said like that. He said that "We started our, this Gauḍīya Maṭha in Ultadanga.
So unfortunately, later on the paṇḍita title was there, but some of them were great fools. Perhaps you know, our late Prime Minister, Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru... Perhaps you've heard his name, Nehru. He came to your country I think during President Eisenhower's time, and in some meeting some American gentlemen or boys, I do not know, they asked him to explain some of the verses from Bhagavad-gītā. And he, I mean to say, admitted that he was not a scholar in Bhagavad-gītā. So, but his title was there, paṇḍita. Generally, the brāhmaṇas are given this title paṇḍita on account of their scholarship in Vedic literature. So Nimāi Paṇḍita, Nimāi Paṇḍita. Yes. So complaint was lodged against Him, and He disobeyed the order of the Kazi, civil disobedience, and there was a great incident. Then the Kazi became His admirer, follower. That is a long story.
Madhudviṣa: Recently it said in the newspaper where the scientists were sending a sputnik around the moon. I have read in your Easy Journey to Other Planets that no matter how many endeavors they make, they will never reach these other planets. Is this...?
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is not the process of reaching. This is childish. That also I have made statement, this is childish. You cannot go to the moon planet in that way. It is not possible. They'll simply create story, but they'll never be successful.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Will we know Kṛṣṇa as well by thinking always how can we spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Is this the... be good to know Kṛṣṇa as much as if you study thoroughly the Vedas?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Siddhānta boliyā citte nā kara alasa. You have to understand the science of Kṛṣṇa. There are so many books. The Gosvāmīs were doing that. In the next verse... I have explained one verse. The next verse is nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau. They were very much expert in studying very scrutinizingly all Vedic literatures. So, of course, reading or hearing.
Arrival Addresses and Talks
Prabhupāda: Just now I have seen one article in the Times, four five pages article, "Crime...," and what is that?
Brahmānanda: "Why and How to Solve It."
Prabhupāda: "Why and How to Solve It."
Brahmānanda: It's the cover story of Time.
Prabhupāda: So if you are serious, you can take our method and suggestions. Then you can stop this crime.
Royal Kennedy: You have a way to stop the crime?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, I have.
Royal Kennedy: Can you explain a little bit more? How do you do it?
Prabhupāda: That we have to suggest. The social, political, educational, cultural—everything has to be changed. So if you come, we can give you in details how it can be done.
Prabhupāda: So we can solve this. Why not invite them to hear us how we can solve? Arrange meetings in big, big circle. We shall give the solution. It is a good opportunity for preaching. You have got Times paper?
Brahmānanda: Yes, Time magazine, it's the cover story this month.
Śrī Govinda: Not here. In five or ten minutes.
Prabhupāda: Yes, bring. We shall take this opportunity to preach. "Crime, Why and What to Do?" We shall give all solution. We can arrange big, big meetings on this point, "Crime, Why and What to Do?" A very suitable heading it is. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā (SB 5.18.12). Unless he'll take to God consciousness, all this rascaldom, so-called advancement of civilization, all condemned, everything. All rascals. So why we will not, will there be crime? There must be. This is the result of modern civilization, crime. You cannot check it unless you take to Kṛṣṇa cons... They are all violating the laws of nature. Nature brings you from evolutionary process to the human life, and if we misuse, then we suffer. This life is specially meant for understanding God. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is the only business. Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā na yaś ceha karmabhiḥ. Jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā. Find out this verse.
Initiation Lectures
So Lord Buddha, he, of course, did not preach directly God consciousness, but we accept him as the incarnation of God. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. He had to preach amongst the atheist class of men who were too much addicted with animal slaughter and he wanted to stop animal slaughter. That was his main business. So I've several times explained. Therefore he rejected Vedic authority. Because in the Vedic authority there is recommendation, under certain condition, of animal sacrifice. But he wanted to stop completely animal sacrifice. Therefore superficially he said, he denied the authority of Vedic ritual. Because if he accepted Vedic rituals then he could not preach this ahiṁsā paramo dharma. So that is a great story. Anyway we accept, we Vaiṣṇavas, we accept Lord Buddha as incarnation. That is mentioned in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. He is incarnation of Kṛṣṇa. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra. So indirectly the Buddhists are worshiping God. They are denying, there is no existence of God but they are accepting the incarnation of God.
So I was dreaming sometimes that my Guru Mahārāja is calling me and I am leaving my home and going behind him. I was dreaming like that, and I was thinking, "Oh, I have to give up my home? My Guru Mahārāja wants me to give up my home life and take sannyāsa?" So I was thinking, "It is horrible. How can I leave my home?" This is called māyā. Of course, it's a long story, but incidentally I am speaking to you because you are my dear children. So I was thinking that "How can I take sannyāsa and leave my home, my children?" So that was a horrible thought for me, I tell you. I was thinking seriously, "Oh, I will have to take this course. Guru Mahārāja wants me." But actually I did not like to give up my home life. But Guru Mahārāja made me obliged to give up my home life. So now, by his order, or by his plan, I gave up my home life, I gave up a few children, but Guru Mahārāja is so kind that has given me so many nice children.
As I told you, one story, it is very..., not amusing. One boy, he went out of home and mixed with yogis for several years. Then, after some time, he came to his village, and all the friends and relatives gathered: "Oh, you have been so many years with yogis. What you have learned?" Actually yogis can do wonderful things. One yogi used to come to our house. He was my father's... My father used to respect him. So he told us that within a few minutes they will go several hundreds of miles. Simply he will touch his Guru Mahārāja and sit down, and he will see in another place within few seconds some thousands of miles away. The yogis can perform this. So one yogi, he came to his village, and all the people, relatives, surrounded him: "What you have learned, please?" He said that "I have learned this mystic power; I can walk on the water." This is called laghimā-siddhi, to become so light that one can fly in the air or one can walk on the water. So everyone became inquisitive.
So the scientist, the philosopher, they are not studying what is the cause. Everyone is trying to get out of all sorts of miserable problems, but they do not know what is that problem. The problem is this body. But they have no knowledge what is this body, how it is working, what is the soul, how it is transmigrating. They are all rascals, fools. They have no knowledge. And they are trying to make a solution of the problem. There is a story... Not... Yes, take it for story, that sosera bhetare bujugheche (?). If somebody is haunted by a ghost, there was some expert, I mean to say, chanter, who can drive away that ghost by mantra. And they usually use the mustard seed. They chant the mantra and they throw the mustard seed on the person who is ghost-haunted, and the ghost is driven away. So there is a story that the ghost entered the mustard. He is throwing the mustard, but the ghost has already entered the mustard. Similarly, we are trying to solve the problems, but the problem is this body. The ghost is within this body.
That is stated in the Brahma-saṁhitā, sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir eka chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni bibharti durgā (Bs. 5.44). Durgā. What is that Durgā? Durgā is the material nature, very powerful. Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktiḥ. She has got the power of creating, maintaining and dissolving. She is so powerful. You have seen Durgā's picture. She has got ten hands. That's a long story, of course, Durgā, Caṇḍī. These are all described in the Vedic literatures. But she is not the absolute personality. Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir eka chāyeva. She is working simply just like shadow. As the shadow moves when the original substance moves, similarly, she is only working under the direction of Kṛṣṇa. That's all. She is the external potency. Similarly, Rādhārāṇī is a pleasure potency, and these gopīs are expansion of Rādhārāṇī, pleasure potency. So they are not ordinary girls, neither Kṛṣṇa is enjoying like us, that in the hotel at dance and in the morning the garbage. No. It is not like that. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhis (Bs. 5.37).
There is a story—that's very interesting—that one doctor, medical man, came to a gentleman's house, and there were two patients, the lady, the wife of that gentleman, and the maidservant. So the doctor examined and informed to the proprietor that "Your wife's fever is only 100. That's not very... But your maidservant's fever is 104. So she has to be taken little care of." So when the wife heard... (break) So we want like that. This material civilization is like that, to increase the temperature to 108 and then atom bomb fall. You see? That is going on. We should not. Yāvad artha-prayojanam. We should not try for increasing simply the material comforts. No. That is not our business. That is 108 degree, then death. But yāvad artha-vinirṇayam. As far as we want, we must take, that much, not more than that. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā (ISO 1), the same verse. Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. Whatever prasādam you are offered by the grace of the Lord, you accept. Don't take anything more. That is our motto.
General Lectures
There is a nice story. You'll appreciate it. In India, especially in Bengal, there are many rivers. The land is full of rivers. Because it is on the bank of the Bay of Bengal, all rivers are falling. Therefore Bengal, the land of, especially the east Bengal, is full of rivers. One student of technology was going home, and he was on the boat. So the student was asking the boatman, "Do you know what are the stars?" The boatman said, "Sir, we are ordinary boatman. What do we know about these stars?" "Oh. Then your fifty percent of life is wasted, useless." Then he was asking, "Do you know what are these trees? Do you know any science of botany?" He said, "Sir, we are ordinary laborer. What do we know about botany?" "Oh. Then seventy-five percent of your life is useless." In this way the student of technology was asking the boatman, "Do you know this? Do you know that?" And he said that "I am ordinary man. What do I know all these things?" Then all of a sudden there was a black cloud, and there was storm, and the river began to be inflated, and the boatman said, "My dear sir, do you know swimming?" "Oh," he said, "no." Then he said, "Then your cent percent knowledge is spoiled. Now you have to go down to the river. Your life is finished." In this way they dropped in the river, and the technological student, because he did not know how to swim, so the storm and the waves grabbed him.
So Śrīmad-Bhāgavata says that this attractive feature is pulling on this material existence. Therefore the training is how to detract. In the beginning the brahmacārī training is given because to know that this body, woman body, is actually not attractive. What is this attractive? This is made of flesh and blood. Similarly for woman, if I analyze the man's body, or woman's, what is there? Flesh and blood. But that flesh and blood is very attractive? That story, perhaps I have enunciated, that beauty was kept in a pot? Do you remember? Huh? I may repeat that story again, that one girl was very beautiful, and one boy was after him (her). But in India the boys and girls are not allowed to mix freely unless they are husband and wife. So this girl was married, but she was not very rich. But that boy was very rich and he was after her. He was always proposing her. And she became perplexed, that "He is rich man. If I don't agree, then he may do some harm to my husband, to me." So she made a plan that "All right. I agree to your proposal. You come to my house in such and such night. I'll be engaged with you." Oh, he was very... In the meantime, (s)he took some purgative pill, strong.
Yes. That is in the preliminary stage. Just like the same example, that you have to go... In New York that Empire State Building, 102 story. So everyone is going to the top, but somebody has passed ten steps, somebody has passed twelve steps, somebody has passed twenty. But there may be thousands of steps. So one who has gone to the top, he has passed all the steps. Similarly, there are different process of yogas—karma-yoga or jñāna-yoga... They are divided into three. All these three yogas are described in the Bhagavad-gītā, karma-yoga, jñāna-yoga, dhyāna-yoga and bhakti-yoga. But you'll find the yoginām api sarveṣāṁ. When yoga is described in the Sixth Chapter, you'll find the Lord says, yoginām api sarveṣāṁ: "Of all the yogic process," yoginām api sarveṣāṁ madgatenāntarātmanā (BG 6.47), "one who has taken Me within himself," śraddhāvān bhajate yo mām, "and with faith and love is engaged in My service, he is first-class yogi." So the first-class yogi are all these Kṛṣṇa conscious boys and girls. First-class yogi. Because they're always thinking of Kṛṣṇa within.
So in Kurukṣetra—Kurukṣetra is always dharma-kṣetra, pilgrimage—there was some lunar, solar eclipse, and many persons from many parts of India, they came to take bath. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma and Their sister Subhadra, They also came in royal fashion, with so many soldiers, and so many..., just like king. So these residents of Vṛndāvana, they met Kṛṣṇa, and especially the gopīs, they saw Kṛṣṇa, and they lamented that "Kṛṣṇa, You are here, we are also here, but the place is different. We are not in Vṛndāvana." So there is a long story how they lamented and how Kṛṣṇa pacified them. This is a feeling of separation, how the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana felt separation from Kṛṣṇa. So this... When Kṛṣṇa came on chariot, that is called Ratha-yātrā. This is the history of Ratha-yātrā. So any pastimes made by Kṛṣṇa, that is observed in ceremonial form by the devotees. So that is Ratha-yātrā.
There is a very nice story. One rat, he was troubled with cat. So he came to a saintly person: "My dear sir, I am very much troubled." "What is the difficulty?" The rat said, "The cat always chases. So I'm not in peace of mind." "Then what do you want?" "Please make me a cat." "All right, you become a cat." After few days, the same cat again came to the saintly person, says, "My dear sir, I am again in trouble." "What is that?" "The dogs are chasing me." "Then what do you want?" "Make me a dog." "All right, you become a dog." Then after few days, again he comes. He says, "I am again in trouble, sir." "What is that?" "The foxes are chasing me." "Then what do you want?" "To become a fox." "All right, you become a fox." Then again he comes. He says, "Oh, tigers are chasing me." "Then what do you want?" "I want to become a tiger." "All right, you become a tiger." And when he became a tiger, he began to stare his eyes on the saintly person: "I shall eat you." "Oh, you shall eat me? I have made you tiger, and you want to eat me?" "Yes, I am tiger. I shall eat you." Oh, then he cursed him, "Again you become a rat. Again you become a rat." So he became a rat.
Yes. Now, you are already united with God because your relationship cannot be rejected with God. Just like father and son. The son may forget his father. That does not mean the relationship of father and son is no more there. So our relationship is there with God, but we have forgotten. So we have to revive our consciousness. It is not that it has to be manufactured something new. The relationship is there. Just like a son, he has forgotten his father. He is very rich man's son, but he's loitering in the street, and he does not know. Just like there is a story of Tarzan. So we are all Tarzans. So we have forgotten, you see? So the whole process is to revive. That is called ahaṁ brahmāsmi. "Oh, I am the son of God. Then where is my distress?" So revival, Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to free, make free the consciousness from all contamination of material existence. You call it Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God consciousness, the same thing. So this is purificatory process, that "I am Kṛṣṇa's, I am God's." Everyone is God's, but he has forgotten. In the animal species of life, they cannot revive, they haven't got that chance, but here is the chance, human form of life. If you miss this chance, then you again go to the cycle of so many species of life.
There are many yogis: karma-yogī, jñāna-yogī, dhyāna-yogī, hatha-yogī, bhakti-yogī. Yoga system is just like a staircase. Just like in New York, that Empire State Building, that 102-story building. So there is a staircase or a lift. So yoga system is just like a lift to go to the highest perfection of life. (break) ...I mean to say flat (indistinct). Just like karma-yoga. You can approach, you can make progress to the first or second floor. Similarly, by jñāna-yoga, you can make progress to the fiftieth floor. And similarly, by dhyāna-yoga, you can make progress up to the eightieth floor. But by bhakti-yoga, you can go to the highest platform. This is also very nicely explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti: (BG 18.55) "If you want to know Me cent percent, then come to the bhakti-yoga." And the bhakti-yoga means this śravaṇam. The first thing is śravaṇa and kīrtana. You simply chant and hear, simple process. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and hear. Immediately you become benefited, immediately, and you get ecstasy. So our humble request is that this is very simple process, recommended process, approved process, and experimental process. If you try it without any loss, but with a prospect of a great gain, then you are requested that you can accept it.
There are many nice stories... Of course, our time is very short. Still, I wish to narrate one short story, that one man, one boy, was attracted by a beautiful girl. So the girl does not agree, and the boy is persistent. So in India, of course, the girls, they keep their chastity very strict. So the girl was not agreeing. So she said, "All right, I agree. After one week you come." She appointed, "Such and such time, you come." So the boy was very glad. And the girl took some purgative throughout the seven days, and she was passing stool, day and night, and vomiting, and she kept all these vomits and stool in a nice pot. So when the appointed time came, the boy came, and the girl was sitting on the door. The boy inquired, "Where is that girl?" She said, "I am that girl." "No, no. You are not. You are so ugly. She was so beautiful. You are not that girl." "No, I am that girl, but I have now separated my beauty in a different pot." "What is that?" She showed: "This is the beauty, this stool and vomit. This is the ingredient." Actually anyone may be very robust or very beautiful—if he passes stool for three or four times, everything changes immediately.
Just like there is a story, "Alexander and the Cynic." Perhaps most of you know. There was a cynic. He was saintly person. He was sitting in a solitary place, almost naked body. Alexander the Great went there and asked him, "If I can do something for you? You are a great man." He said, "Oh, please don't obstruct sunshine. Please be aside, That's all. (laughter) You may do this. Don't obstruct the sunshine. I am quite pleased. You please set aside." Because he was fully satisfied, why this Alexander Great will, can do him?
- yam labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ
- manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ
- yasmin sthito guruṇāpi
- duḥkhena na vicālyate
- (Bg. 6.20-23)
In Bhagavad-gītā you will find. If you are situated in that transcendental position, then there is no more demand. And if you are situated in that position, the greatest difficult position, you don't care for it. Yasmin sthito guruṇāpi duḥkhena. Guru means heaviest type of difficulty. If you are put in, you don't care for it. This is life. Any condition, in any position, you are satisfied. You are not disturbed. That is required. That is called peace. That can be achieved by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not by any other method. Any other questions?
Well, same goal, you just try to understand. Same goal... Suppose you have to go to the forty-second or one hundredth story. Now, you are stepping one after another. The goal is there, the forty-second story, but you cannot claim, after going a few steps, you say that "I have come to the forty-second story." The path is one. That's all right. But you have to reach the ultimate goal. You do not know what is the ultimate goal. You simply say all paths reach to this goal, but you do not know what is goal.
Then Kūrma avatāra. Kūrma avatāra means the incarnation of God in the form of tortoise. Then Varāha avatāra, the incarnation of Godhead in the form of boar. Then Nṛsiṁha avatāra, incarnation of Godhead, half lion and half man. Then incarnation of Vāmanadeva, dwarf brāhmaṇa. Next incarnation is Paraśurāma, and the next incarnation, Lord Rāmacandra. You have heard the story of Rāmāyaṇa. That is the activities of Lord Rāmacandra. Last, yesterday, we observed the birth ceremony of Lord Rāmacandra. And then incarnation of Balarāma. And the next incarnation is Lord Buddha. And we are awaiting another incarnation at the last stage of this Kali-yuga. This age is called Kali-yuga.
There is a story in the Bhaktamarg grantha that one paṇḍita was reciting Bhāgavata and he was describing Śyāmasundara. Mother Yaśodā was decorating with all jewels very nicely to go with his cowherd boy friends, with the calves and cows. Śyāmasundara. And in the forest of Vṛndāvana. So, one thief was also hearing that Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So he thought it wise, "Why not go to Vṛndāvana and get all these ornaments from these boys? (laughter) They are all boys, so either I can kill them or somehow or other cheat them, get these ornaments." So, that's a long story (indistinct). So, with that spirit he went to Vṛndāvana to find out Śyāmasundara to exploit Him, to take all the ornaments from Him. When he actually went to Vṛndāvana, he was finding out, "Where is Śyāmasundara? Where is Śyāmasundara?" Śyāmasundara came and, "Here I am."
So this is a longer subject matter. It is not possible to explain everything what is the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. But the actual fact is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to bring one to his original consciousness. That is the sum and substance, to original consciousness. That original consciousness can be achieved by simple method. What is that? Chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. It is a fact. Just like we have got so many European and American boys and girls. How they have come to this platform? How they have given up their old habits? Naturally these boys and girls were taught from the beginning of their life so many things which is not accepted in Vedic civilization, but they have now given up. There is no illicit sex life amongst our students. There is no meat-eating, there is no intoxication, including coffee and tea and cigarette, and there is no gambling. And they are practiced to Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra chanting not only as you have seen some of the samples. We have got fifty-two branches. In every branch we have got not less than twenty-five up to hundred. So this is the brahma-bhūtaḥ stage. It is not story, but it is fact. How it is obtained? It is obtained by Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
So our method is very simple, and it is very sublime. And it is not that we are dreaming. Practically it is happening in every part of the world. We have got so many branches all over the world, and each and every branch you will find devotees like this. At least twenty-four devotees up to one hundred devotees we have got. In America, my students, these boys and girls, they have been known as "Hare Kṛṣṇa People," "bright-faced people." You can compare their face with others, how they are feeling happy and blissful. That's a fact. It is not a story. So method is simple: simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. So why don't you accept this formula? You have nothing to lose, and there is no loss, but the gain is very great. So our request is that here is a nice place. You assemble here. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and see the result. That is our request. And if you want to know more, if you don't believe that Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra is powerful, if you want to know about this movement through science, philosophy, logic, we have got ample books. We have got already published at least twelve books, four hundred pages. You try to understand. If you want to understand this movement through science and philosophy, we are ready. But if you take it as a simple method, without any expenditure, without any loss, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Two sides. Any side you can accept. You will be benefited. That is our request. I don't wish to take much of your time, but our method is very simple, and your life will be sublime. There is no loss. The gain is very great. So if you like, you can take it.
So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to propagate this higher scientific idea to the people in general, and the process is very simple. Simply by chanting the holy name of God—Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare—one cleanses his dirty things in the heart and he can understand that he is part and parcel of the Supreme Lord and it is his duty to serve Him. And it is also very pleasant. The process is so nice that we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, dance rhythmically and eat nice prasādam, and we enjoy this life and prepare for the next life to enter into the kingdom of God. So these are not stories. These are all facts, although to the layman it appears like stories. But if one is serious, then Kṛṣṇa, or God, from within, He also helps, and the spiritual master also helps. The spiritual master is said "the external manifestation of God." God is situated in everyone's heart as Paramātmā, as Supersoul. But those who are very serious about understanding the Supreme Personality of Godhead, immediately He helps him by, I mean to say, showing a bona fide spiritual master so that a candidate will be helped from inside and outside how to approach God.
When God created this material world... I think in your Bible also it is said that the Adam and Eve, the forbidden apple... That means He made some rules and regulations, "Do this; do not this." And if you do this, what is not sanctioned, then you suffer. God forbade not to eat the apple—I do not know actually—but by the request of Eve, Adam ate it, and he became conditioned. Similarly—it may be story—but the fact is that God created this world. That's a fact. And He created the rules and regulation also. That is called Vedic knowledge. And in the Vedic knowledge there are injunctions: "You do this; you do not do this." If you follow the Vedic knowledge, then you have come to this world for enjoyment, so your regulated enjoyment will satisfy your senses; at the same time, you will be able to go back to home, back to Godhead, again. But if you do not follow the regulative principles, if you simply try to enjoy, exploit, this material world, then you will be implicated. So in the beginning you may come in this material world as Brahma, and gradually, by your propensities, you may glide down to become the insect of stool. That is... That responsibility is yours. That is not God's responsibility. You can elevate yourself. Just like at the present moment we have got this human form of body. We can hear the instruction of God, and we can again elevate. That is possible.
There is a small instructive story in this—not story, fact—in this connection. In Calcutta there was a great dramatist. He was very well known, government officer. He wrote one book, Shah Jahan. That is very famous book for theatrical play. So in that Shah Jahan, means the king emperor Shah Jahan, the... Practically, the name which is given on the book, the hero title, he's the hero. So one of the friends of Mr. D. L. Raya, he inquired from Mr. Raya that "In your book Shah Jahan, the actual hero is Aurangzeb. Why you have given the title Shah Jahan?" He could not understand it. So I'm just trying to explain that the purpose of the book must be known to the author, not others. So the author replied, "My dear friend, the actual hero is Shah Jahan, not Aurangzeb." Although the Shah Jahan book is full of the activities of Aurangzeb, the fact is that Shah Jahan was the emperor. He had many, four or five sons, and his wife died, Mumtaz, at an early age.
Just like if you are in touch with fire you will get yourself warmer and warmer and warmer, and at last you'll get red fire. Similarly, if we are in touch with Kṛṣṇa, then we advance spiritually, and then we become completely spiritualized, our original Brahman. This is the process. Simple process. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and you'll gradually develop your spiritual consciousness. That is actually happening. It is not story. You can see practically how they are spiritually advancing. So why not experiment yourself? What is the loss? If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, is there any loss? Tell me, is there any loss? But why don't you do it? Why not make a try? Instead of arguing, you see practically what is happening. They are of different civilization, different culture. How they are developing their Kṛṣṇa consciousness? How it is possible? Simply by chanting. This is practical. Throughout the whole world—in Africa, in America, in Canada, everywhere. So this is very simple process. But people will waste their time by arguing. Why not make an experiment and see what is the result? That is our propaganda. (end)
It is said in the śāstra, yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvaiḥ guṇaiḥ tatra samāsate surāḥ. If you have unflinching faith in the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then all the good qualities of demigods will develop unto you. It is not story. It is fact. Just like these European and American students. They, in their previous life, before becoming Kṛṣṇa consciousness, according to our standard, they were all immoral. Our, in India, illicit sex life still, it is admitted, if it is not followed, to have sex relation with other's wife or other woman except one's wife, that is called immoral or sinful.
Either I become president or minister or head of the family, head of the community, society—whatever I may be, my position is servant, but I'm thinking that I have become master. This is called illusion. And sometimes when I become exasperated by becoming such master, false master, I give up this world. I say brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, "This world is false. Now I shall become Brahman, the Supreme Brahman. I shall merge into Brahman." This is... Just like the grapes are sour. The jackal and the orchard... You have knowledge of this story. This jackal wanted to capture the grapes, and when he could not capture, he gives it up: "Oh, the grapes are sour. It is no use." Similarly, first of all we try to become master—master of family, master of society, master of community, master of nation, master of international figure—and when you're baffled, then you give up this world. So-called give up.
Prabhupāda: So then take it.
Devotee (1): Before we were coming every Saturday here to teach their children, just kīrtana and some stories. The children of that man, when I first came there and I was saying Hare Kṛṣṇa, they started saying "Bhīma," "Arjuna," "Yudhiṣṭhira," like this. They know many stories. Of course, many stories are wrongly told, but they have some familiarity with Vedic knowledge, a little. They have paintings also of Kṛṣṇa with the gopīs, stealing their clothes, Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna on the chariot. But they don't know how to present Kṛṣṇa as He is in His original form. They make Him more like a man because they don't know. But it's a basis. (break) ...nice. Maybe we can do that in some of our temples in India. Playing maṅgala āratika over the loudspeaker.
Devotee (2): Like the Muslims, they chant...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: What do you mean by old?
Indian man (1): I mean the history, those stories...
Prabhupāda: That story, that stories... You do not know the science. Why you are talking like nonsense? What do you mean by old? It is eternal. There is no question. Avyayam. Nityaḥ śāśvataḥ. You do not know.
Indian man (1): Therefore they used to pray to God before they used to go to commit theft, and they used to come back again to worship the God and to please Him that yes, they were not caught.
Prabhupāda: So do you think we are dacoits?
Indian man (1): No, but...
Prabhupāda: Then what do you think? Why do you question this? Why do you question these nonsense things?
Indian man (1): That praying to God without...
Prabhupāda: Yes, he is better than you because you do not know what is God.
Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu: equally seeing all living entities. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Brahma-bhūta means he is learned scholar, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, self-realized; therefore he has no such distinction that "Give protection to the human being and send the poor animals to the slaughterhouse. Equality." What equality? What the poor animals have done that you are sending them to the slaughterhouse? Is that civilization, this rubbish civilization, maintaining hundreds and thousands of slaughterhouse? So simply speaking "love," "fraternity..." Where is your fraternity? Where is your love? This cannot be possible. This may be big talks only—but to be understood by the nonsense. Unless you become brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20), self-realized, Kṛṣṇa conscious, God conscious, these things are only stories. It is not possible. This is the description in the Bhagavad-gītā.
How it will develop, that we began explaining yesterday, this Sūta Gosvāmī's instruction. He says, śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ (SB 1.2.17). If you simply hear about Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa You can hear about Kṛṣṇa in so many ways. Kṛṣṇa has got so many activities. The whole Mahābhārata, the whole Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, all the Purāṇas, and especially Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, is full of Kṛṣṇa's activities. So it is very relishing also. Just like we try to read stories and fiction ordinarily—people take pleasure in it—similarly, if you simply read Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, you will relish that fiction reading; at the same time, you will be transcendentally realized. The Parīkṣit Mahārāja, when he was hearing Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, he said that nivṛtta-tarṣair upagīyamānād bhavauṣadhāc chrotra-mano-'bhirāmāt (SB 10.1.4). He admitted that "This kṛṣṇa-katha, narrations about Kṛṣṇa, about Kṛṣṇa's activities, it is relished, it is discussed, by nivṛtta-tarṣaiḥ (CC Madhya 19.170). Nivṛtta-tarṣaiḥ means liberated person. Nivṛtti means finished, and tṛṣṇa, tṛṣṇa, hankering.
Departure Talks
Prabhupāda: Let them read whatever they like. Let them read. They must read something. (break)
Rāmeśvara: ...story of Choṭa Haridāsa. I was very surprised to find that his talking with that woman was actually for the service of Lord Caitanya. It says that he went to an advanced devotee's house to get some rice.
Prabhupāda: No. It is not that. There was some young woman sitting there, and he glanced over her with lusty desire, not that old woman.
Rāmeśvara: That was her sister? Or daughter.
Prabhupāda: No. Daughter, granddaughter maybe. She was a very old lady.
Philosophy Discussions
Prabhupāda: Ultimately everything is spiritual, because the matter is Kṛṣṇa's energy and spirit is also Kṛṣṇa's energy. If Kṛṣṇa is the original cause, therefore the matter can be changed into spirit, spirit can be changed into matter. Just as it is the same electric energy acting as heater and as cooler, but the electrician, he can change the cooler to heater and the heater to cooler, because the original cause is electricity. Similarly, the original cause is Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa can change matter into spirit, spirit into matter. That is in His power. The rascals and fools, when Kṛṣṇa appears in His own body, ātmamāyā, they think it is just like material body, but they do not know that to Kṛṣṇa there is no such distinction of material and spiritual. Even accepting that He had got a material body, there is no hampering—He has changed into spiritual body. Otherwise how is it possible, Kṛṣṇa, He has got material body, now He was seven-years' boy, Kṛṣṇa is lifting the whole Govardhana Hill? And as much as Kṛṣṇa desires, "Let this big planet sun float in the air," so is it difficult for Him to lift the whole hill? There is no difficulty at all. That is omnipotency. And those who cannot understand Kṛṣṇa, avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā (BG 9.11), deride Him, "He is a man, therefore these are all stories," they have no idea of Kṛṣṇa. But we don't take Him as ordinary human being. Therefore He can change anything into anything, matter into spirit, spirit into matter, as He likes. That is His omnipotency. Otherwise what is the meaning of omnipotency?
Śyāmasundara: Like hypnotism.
Prabhupāda: By hypnotism, yes. I think I have discussed in The Nectar of Devotion. So this is possible even by ordinary yogis, and what to speak of Kṛṣṇa, who is known as Yogeśvara. He is the master of all mystic power. So one who does not know these things, they say, "Oh, these are all stories." It is not story. It is no miracle. They are all possible. So there is no such thing as miracle. It is a process of doing. One must know how to do it. There is no miracle. We don't say anything miracle. But for appreciating, you can say it is. You see Kṛṣṇa is said as Yogeśvara, master of all mystic yoga processes: yatra yogeśvara hari. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said. So our yogic power is, our yoga process is to take shelter of Kṛṣṇa. He'll act, and you'll get the credits. (laughter) Just like our movement: Kṛṣṇa is doing and I am getting the credit. (laughter) Yes. Why should we bother about acquiring all this mystic power? Just depend on Kṛṣṇa. He is Yogeśvara. He'll do everything, and you'll get the credit. And Kṛṣṇa wants that. Just like his advice to Arjuna, "This is already planned. You don't think that if you do not fight they'll go back. That is not possible. But you simply take the credit, that's all."
Śyāmasundara: Just like I conceive of a gold mountain. Now in this world there is no gold mountain...
Prabhupāda: There is actual gold mountain. You have not seen. That information (is) from Bhāgavatam.
Śyāmasundara: Then let us say I can conceive of a building eight hundred stories high.
Prabhupāda: Eight hundred, eight million stories. (laughter)
Śyāmasundara: It doesn't exist.
Prabhupāda: It exists.
Śyāmasundara: On this planet, no.
Prabhupāda: On this planet, you can say like that.
Śyāmasundara: So you can conceive of it somewhere so it must exist.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like when many Brahmās came. So not only four-headed but millions of headed Brahmās.
Prabhupāda: Doctrine. So doctrine, doctrine should be fact, but Darwin's theory, so far... It is called Darwin's theory...
Śyāmasundara: It's not called theory, it's doctrine. It should be doctrine.
Karandhara: What they mean by doctrine is that they can't agree on it and say it's fact. That there's so many short-comings that they will call it a doctrine but they won't call it fact. That's practically the whole story in scientific research: the real scientists, they never call anything a solid fact; it's always a theory or a doctrine because they never find a perfect enough conclusion which takes into account everything and perfectly reconciles...
Prabhupāda: What is that uncertainty? What do you call that?
Śyāmasundara: It's called Theory of Uncertainty. Heisenberg's Theory of Uncertainty.
Prabhupāda: That is also theory.
Karandhara: Even if you were to grant that the first life forms on this planet were simple one-celled life, that does not mean that more complex life did not begin earlier on other planets. The theory is not aborted. It may be you can discount the possibility of...
Prabhupāda: The whole thing is that Dr. Frog, famous story. He comes to this country, Dr. Frog's understanding. He has studied the three-feet-wide well, and he says he is satisfied with that. He has nothing to do with the Atlantic Ocean. But Atlantic Ocean is also a reservoir of water, and that well is also a reservoir of water. But (there is a) vast difference. So we take knowledge of who has created Atlantic Ocean. Therefore our knowledge is perfect. What do you say?
Śyāmasundara: I just want to try to cover this from every angle so that Darwinists will not be able to argue. Today I'd like to find out how they date earth layers, how geologists find...
Prabhupāda: No. Your geologists have given, "It may be millions of years ago." They say like that.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They estimate.
Prabhupāda: Estimate.
Śyāmasundara: So even though several million years ago they find no evidence in the rocks...
Prabhupāda: That does not mean that there is no civilization. That is their imperfect knowledge.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Actually, our so-called modern scientific stories, knowledge is so empiric it's now (indistinct) on complete proof. It is always stands to have objectionable work, sides; so it is not perfect at all. Just like from Śrīla Prabhupāda's book on the Easy Journey to Other Planets, Śrīla Prabhupāda mentioned the discovery of the anti-proton, by the scientists who got the Nobel Prizes in 1959, and Prabhupāda gives all information from Bhagavad-gītā, anything, is already there; Prabhupāda has said it. They say anti-proton... They just discovered the anti-proton, but they still think it is some matter, that is not..., they say anti-proton but still they think that it is connected with matter. But Prabhupāda said it is not matter, it is spirit. Differentiation between matter and anti-matter. Matter is material thing; anti-matter is spirit or (indistinct). So Prabhupāda comments so nicely about the so-called modern scientists to do further research on this concept of anti-matter. Perhaps they will come to an understanding about the spirit, they come to a point. Our knowledge is what you call a modern scientific findings or evidences always subject to changes also...
Prabhupāda: This must be changing because the instruments by which we acquire knowledge, they are imperfect. So by our so-called research and sensuous acceptance of knowledge, that is never perfect. It cannot be perfect.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: (indistinct) degrading (indistinct). We see every day, every moment.
Prabhupāda: So we have seen in our childhood, they're also. No voucher or receipt. I'll tell you one little story. My father was dealing in cloth. So supposing he has come, my customer, he wants so many things. So I haven't got stock all of these things, but I wrote down his order, that you are market broker, I say just get these things immediately from the market. You go to the particular person who has got the stock and you order him to my shop, "Such and such you send me." So you have ordered for say twenty, fifty men. So their men are coming with a load of cloth, and he'll simply ask the firm's name: "This is Rajaram (indistinct)?" And someone declares, "Yes, yes, yes." But no voucher. He simply asks whether this firm is Rajaram (indistinct), and somebody nods, "Yes, yes." So he drops the bundle of cloth. It may be five hundred, or thousand rupees' worth or more than that. So similarly, many porters drop, because I require so many things. Now, you are my broker, you come, you see the stack of cloth, you ask my clerk, "Just credit this from such and such firm." But firm has sent without any voucher, without any (indistinct), and the porter simply asks whether this is the same firm, and somebody nods and we (makes noise like stamping something), that's all. Then you come, you pick up so many bundles, "Just note down, 'This has come from such and such firm.' " You note down. Then my clerk notes it. This is transaction. And out of many such bundles, you find that you did not order this, "Wherefrom it came? It is not mine." So we set aside. Three days after, one (indistinct) comes, "Sir, on such and such date I dropped a bundle here which did not belong to you, so please give me this back." "Oh, you will see there are so many. What is yours you can take back." And he picks up, "Sir, this is my bundle," "All right, take it." He's unknown, but simply he comes and says that "I dropped one bundle here which does not belong to you. By mistake I dropped it," and I say, "Yes. So many bundles there are, you can take whatever is yours." This was the transaction. Then on the due payment day, those who supplied the cloths, they come to take payment and they say, "Sir, on such and such day, such and such cloth was supplied to you." No voucher, nothing. I open my book: "Yes, yes. That's all right."
Śyāmasundara: No barbarian could have ever conceived...
Prabhupāda: They have presented all these books as—what is called—allegory.
Śyāmasundara: Fiction, allegory.
Prabhupāda: Story. And the so-called swamis, they have also accepted like this. Therefore you can interpret in your own way. If it is a fact, how you can interpret it? But we are presenting as it is, fact. That is our business.
Śyāmasundara: They present so many newspapers every day and say this is fact, but it's lies, so many lies.
Prabhupāda: Even Dr. Radhakrishnan has said mental speculation is a big thing, of the Western propaganda.
Śyāmasundara: I think he said it is the crowning achievement of speculative thought.
Prabhupāda: He has said like that?
Śyāmasundara: "Bhagavad-gītā is the crowning achievement of speculative thought," as if some sages thought it up.
Prabhupāda: Now what is there? Finished. (break) ...fact. It is known to the Vedic culture millions of years ago. (indistinct) I was reading, aśitiṁ caturaś caiva, this is Brahmā-vaivarta Purāṇa and this Brahmā-vaivarta Purāṇa was written by Vyāsadeva five thousand years ago. And it was known long, long years ago. It was written in the Purāṇas, but it was coming by tradition long, long ago. So (indistinct). He has stolen this theory, this idea, from Brahmā-vaivarta Purāṇa, and he has tried to prove it in a different way. Otherwise this evolutionary theory is already there.
Hayagrīva: This is John Dewey, who believed that religions were basically myths and that experience is of the utmost necessity. He felt that philosophy was superior to religion. He writes, "The form ceases to be that of the story told in imaginative and emotional style and becomes that of rational discourse, observing the canons of logic." So it's apparent that Dewey considers religion simply to be a story told in imaginative and emotional style, and for him philosophy observes the canons of logic. So for him the Vedic accounts of Kṛṣṇa's pastimes would be imaginative and emotional, or mythic. How does one argue against this kind of a...?
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is historical fact. It is not imagination. It is, to think like that, is imaginative. Kṛṣṇa... The Mahābhārata is there. It is accepted by all Indian authority, and Kṛṣṇa is a historical figure. How it can be imaginative? So... he may think like that, like a madman, but India's leader will not accept that. Especially the ācāryas who are controlling the spiritual life of India, they do not accept a lunatic foreigner speaking like that.
Śyāmasundara: You said (indistinct) just the opposite. You said, "Keep me talking. That is my life."
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is a fact. Sa vai puṁsām... Sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayoḥ vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane (SB 9.4.18). That is Ambarīṣa Mahārāja, the great saintly king. About him it is described, sa vai manaḥ kṛṣṇa-padāravindayoḥ. He engaged completely, twenty-four hours, his mind unto the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. And vacāṁsi vaikuṇṭha-guṇānuvarṇane, and he engaged his talking simply on Vaikuṇṭha, on the subject matter of Vaikuṇṭha, Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Prahlāda Mahārāja also speaks like that: tad vijñā, tad vijñā sa (indistinct). Glorifying, he is very (indistinct). So they have no conception of God, and whatever you believe, (indistinct). So God is imperson, He is not a person, so where is the (indistinct)? So they come to the (indistinct), scientist, another politician, another this, (indistinct) and they want to become a hero eventually, "I am a great philanthropist," "I am a great nationalist," "I am greatest philosopher." That... And when they finish their talks, then become (indistinct). No more talks—finished. (Hindi) Prahlāda Mahārāja says that (indistinct). He says that śoce tato muni vimukha-cetasa(?): "I am simply thinking of these rascals who are without God consciousness." Tato muni (indistinct): "They are averse to God. I am thinking of them." Śoce tato vimukha-cetasa, māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). These rascals, simply for māyā-sukha, temporary happiness, they are busy, always running here and there for constructing hundred and fifty-stories' house, and bring your money for that. Very busy, very busy. Just like Mr. Birla, he's always busy, (he) cannot see (you). They do not know that "What happiness I am creating?" (indistinct) Just at the end of my life (indistinct). As soon as I close my eyes and I go away from this body, all these things that I have created will be finished. I cannot remember, you cannot remember what was in your past life. But you are eternal, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So suppose I was a king in my last life, I was another Birla, or Birla's servant, (indistinct). Suppose I was Jawaharlal Nehru, or Gandhi.
āmasundara: So he says that this anxiety and uncertainty is displaced or replaced by the passion of truth or faith.
Prabhupāda: Yes. These modern economic concept, they think that this anxiety is the impetus for economic development. They also say like that. Just like in America especially, they are never satisfied. They are manufacturing another machine, another machine, another machine. That hankering after another, another, they think it is really progress. In one sense it is all right, all right, but the attempt should be made, when there is goal. Just like you know how to rise up to the 102nd story that Empire Building. Now they're going step by step, and you know that "I have not completed the step, that I will go further, further, all right," but you know that "I have to go to 102nd story." But if you do not know, this is simply waste of energy. Or you should take the path of mahājana, mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). Even you do not know where to go, you have seen somebody is going up, so you follow him. You follow him. That is also nice. Even you do not know what is the goal, you see that this man, who is first-class, he has followed this path. So if you follow him, mahājano yena gataḥ sa, that is all right. That is also firm, fixed up. Unless you know the goal, the fixed-up point, then your energy may be misused, misguided. The passion, the energy, will be misguided.
Prabhupāda: That is whimsical. And still he is responsible.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. Whatever I choose, I must be responsible for it. But it doesn't matter so much what...
Prabhupāda: But if the beginning is irresponsibility, then where is the question of responsibility? This is nonsense philosophy. If the beginning is irresponsibility... Just like there is a story, some thieves stolen some gold, and there were many, four, five thieves, so they were dividing the stolen property, and one them said, "Now let us divide it honestly." (laughter) The whole thing is stolen property, and they are speaking of honesty. Just like you Americans, you came from Europe and other countries, and you have stolen the property. Now you make immigration, "You cannot come, you cannot come." It is like this philosophy. The whole thing is stolen property, and they are talking of honesty; they are citing scripture. So where is the responsibility, if the beginning is irresponsibility, chance?
Śyāmasundara: For Sartre there is no absolute right and wrong. Some of his main heroes are great thieves and debauchers, like there's one... What is his name?
Prabhupāda: Alexander. Alexander and the robber. There is a story that a robber was arrested by Alexander and there was talk between Alexander and the robber: "You proved that you are big robber, that's all. Why you are going to punish me?" And he was released: "Yes. I'm a big robber. I have no difference between you and me."
Śyāmasundara: So he says that we can remedy the whole situation of bad faith and being an unsavory character and treating myself as an object instead of a person by choosing for myself the person I ought to become.
Prabhupāda: Ideal person.
Śyāmasundara: An ideal person. And become that ideal person.
Prabhupāda: So what is the definition of that ideal person?
Śyāmasundara: Well, in some of his books it would be the very heroic type person who sees things as they are.
Prabhupāda: A big robber is also heroic.
Śyāmasundara: We can train anyone to become anything.
Prabhupāda: Anything. Just like there is a story, the Tarzan. Tarzan. And he was living in the society of monkeys, and he learned how to jump from one tree to another. (laughter)
Devotee: If someone has a natural kṣatriya tendency, he cannot become a Vaiṣṇava?
Prabhupāda: No. There is no such barrier. Anyone can become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Anyone. Just like...
Devotee: What about brāhmaṇa? Brāhmaṇa too? Someone who is naturally a (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: By coming...
Śyāmasundara: Everyone has become śūdra now. You say everyone is born śūdra.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Indian man: One Marwari first of all thought that his manager was getting two thousand rupees and doing nothing so he said, "I will do all the manager's work," and he (indistinct) scientist, engineer like. So he saved the two thousand rupees a month. After a couple of months that (indistinct) and that nobody could get right. And that man was (indistinct). Then he told that Marwari that you were giving me three thousand(indistinct).
Prabhupāda: There is a story that one king, he had ministers, a prime minister, so other salaried workers complained, "Sir, we are actually working. This minister is giving nothing, you are giving him so much salary. We are so (indistinct). So, "Oh, all right." So he called the minister, and brought one elephant. (indistinct), "Please immediately take this elephant and let me know what is the weight. Take this elephant. Weigh him." So they went to... All market, they went to find out a scale, how to weigh this. Where is the scale for weighing an elephant? So they could not do anything. They came back. "What happened?" "Sir, we could not get such a scale." "Oh, you could not weigh? All right. Minister, will you kindly weigh this elephant?" "Yes, sir." "All right, take it." So within six minutes he said, "It is twenty mounds," and like that. You see? So they were standing. They were surprised: "How is that? Within some minutes he came back and he said the exact weight." So king asked that "How did you weigh? Did you get some very big scale?" "No sir. It is not possible to weigh the elephant in the scale. Very difficult." "Then how did you weigh?" "Yes, I took it in a boat. I got it on the boat. I saw the water mark, and I marked it, and then, after getting down the elephant, I put weight on it. So when it came to that water mark, I understood." So the king said, "Now you see the difference?" They agreed, "Yes." Buddhir yasya bālaṁ tasya nirbuddhes tu kuto bālam: "One who has got intelligence, he has got strength, and one who has got no intelligence, rascal fool, what strength there is?" These people are like that, rascal fools. We don't take advice from them. We take advice from Kṛṣṇa or His representative.
Hayagrīva: Hegel considered history and theodicy to be integral. He looks on history as a justification of God, and he rejects the Vedic conception of history because he doesn't see it unfolding any particular meaning. That is, universes are created, maintained and annihilated in an apparently meaningless way. For Hegel, history has to tell the story of man's elevation to God. Apart from the history of man, God would be alone and lifeless. God seems to depend on human history. God is not transcendental but is manifest in the world.
Prabhupāda: But if He is dependent on history, how He is God? This is nonsense proposal. (laughing) He is dependent on history!
Hayagrīva: Doesn't the history of mankind necessarily...
Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, God is independent, satandhara (?). Janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ svarāṭ (SB 1.1.1). Svarāṭ, independent. He does not depend on anything; still He is God. That is God. If He is dependent on anything, then He is not God.
| Page Title: | Story (Lectures, Other) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 23 of Mar, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=109, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 109 |