Story (Conversations 1977)

Expressions researched:
"stories" |"story" |"story's"

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Roof Conversation -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: For satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa. And there compulsory fasting, but he has got desire. So paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate. When you get better taste, when you stop this nonsense for better taste, that is positive. Artificially, if you do, it will not benefit.

Dr. Patel: Ekādaśī, according to the Purāṇas and the stories, all the eleven senses should be withdrawn from their sense objects...

Prabhupāda: No, Ekādaśī, that is automatically... By Ekādaśī is one of the process for... (Hindi)

Indian (2): (Hindi)

Indian lady: May I ask one question? I'm running my own school in Hosharpur, and it starts to A-class, and I want to convert it into gurukula. How I can make arrangements for the books and the examination or the students can take Welley(?) certificate and examination from recognized book? We should make something.

Prabhupāda: Running on...? What is that school?

Indian lady: All kind of school, English-speaking.

Prabhupāda: But if you have to work under government regulation, then you cannot do it. You won't get government help.

Roof Conversation -- January 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: To obey. Śiṣya means to obey, discipline.

Dr. Patel: Live under the paternity of guru to learn.

Prabhupāda: Yes, voluntarily giving him the right to rule over.

Dr. Patel: All gurus are very severe taskmasters. A small thing, they turn away the śiṣya. Sometimes they used to... You hear stories that a boy was sent away with a cow and asked to come back when he had a thousand cows, becoming thousand,(?) and he automatically got all, all the knowledge. These are the type of gurus were there sometimes.

Indian (3): I think the similes can be misunderstood also sometimes.

Dr. Patel: These are similes or metaphor—we don't know, but that is a fact.

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Girirāja: Of course that is our business to construct temples.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Temple (indistinct). Temple means preaching center. This Gurukula I have made for temple (indistinct) center. Now they have made it but that (indistinct). Purpose is, that whole world in the neophyte stage, they will (indistinct), man-manā bhava mad..., think of Kṛṣṇa, offering obeisances, offer (indistinct) from the persons maintaining the temple (indistinct). Therefore they do not like that a temple should be constructed, it is waste of... (indistinct) ...must be engaged to work hard, produce money and enjoy sense gratification. Hog civilization. We are restricting that "Don't work hard like hog and dog or animals, just satisfy your minimal necessities of life, save time and (indistinct) spiritual understanding. This is our mission. Their mission is, "What is this nonsense, spiritual understanding? Simply some sentiment, waste of time. Produce, enjoy, invent so many things for sense gratification." Western civilization. And this is very attractive to the rākṣasa class. Eat, drink, be merry and enjoy. This is the rākṣasa mentality. As soon as there is television, or similar invention, they become very much enthused. They purchase and sitting down, they waste their time. I have seen in America the old man of family, one dog, one television, simply wasting time. And 50 cents for eat. How they are wasting the valuable human life. How they are kept in the darkness. This is life. I have seen television. All some fictitious stories. Here, trained position. They have manufactured one big hammer and training strongly and these rogues they are sending their hammer to train and as soon as the hammer... smashed. They want to see.

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Devotee: There are millions...

Prabhupāda: Shooting, one man. (laughter) At least 50 cents stories (indistinct).

Girirāja: They could see stories of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Mm? Mythology.

Girirāja: That is mythology.

Prabhupāda: And here is fact. So one side is: people are no more interested. (indistinct). This is our business. I think western countries the young men, they're joining this successfully. Adānta gobhir viśataṁ tamisraṁ punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). (indistinct) first part. Find out this matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā. Matir na kṛṣṇe. This is our law book.

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, instead of taking one building, we are in possession of the all the buildings. Then that is my policy, that we must remain on the head of every building. Therefore I constructed. They cannot say absolutely it is tenant, no. Mixed. We are therefore occupying the head of every building, fixed building.

Dr. Patel: There are some grand courts again (?) behind...

Prabhupāda: That is one story. Otherwise we are on the head. They cannot monopolize the whole building.

Hari-śauri: We have a room in that building, anyway, in that one-story building we're storing our books in.

Prabhupāda: That we have taken now, that portion. We have paid for it.

Dr. Patel: This place, that is the worth of that, this amount, was originally bought by Mr. Nyer, for this place, for...

Prabhupāda: Two rupees, three rupees.

Dr. Patel: That one which you bought. This, this, behind, where you call. Nine annas. Nine annas a square yard.

Prabhupāda: Nine annas. (laughs)

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Girirāja: That's true.

Prabhupāda: If I am in power, give the dog a bad name and hang it. Who is going to check me? The same story, the lion and the lamb? No? A lion was drinking water this side and one lamb was drinking water that side. So the lion saw it is very nice food. So he wanted to kill with some plea, "Oh, you are making my water muddy!" "Sir, I am here so far. How I can make your water muddy?" (laughs) In this way he picked up some quarrel and jumped over. So he's lion and he's a lamb. So it is no difficult for the lion to kill a lamb under some plea. "Might is right." There has been so much propaganda and CIA, this Communist propaganda, this Blitz propaganda. In Bengal there was heavy propaganda against our...

Girirāja: Bhavānanda.

Prabhupāda: Bhavānanda. Nothing was done.

Girirāja: Yes. It's true.

Prabhupāda: And Lalitā says that "I know Swamiji is very exalted. I am simply afraid... He has so many American disciples. If some of them do something wrong, that will be very bad thing for him." Lalitā was telling me. What can I do? Come anyone. Who is bad, who is good I do not know. But I know even bad man comes, he becomes a good man. That I know. So who will come? How can I discriminate who is bad or who is good?

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Hm. Caitanya's movement is pāpī tāpī yata chilo hari-nāme uddharilo. All sinful men, all suffering humanity, simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, they were. Pāpī tāpī yata chilo hari-nāme uddharilo. How it is possible? Tāra sākṣī jagāi mādhāi. You see the Jagāi-Mādhāi, how they became Vaiṣṇava. This is Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura's song. So you have to ask anything?

Pradyumna: Just one thing. What does... It said in a text in just one wife-about Jarāsandha. Jarāsandha. Actually the story in Mahābhārata is that one half came from one wife and another half came from another.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Pradyumna: And it said, amyasya mati bayayam sakale dve bṛhad-rathāt ye mātra jarayā cāpi sundite. And they're joined by sundite, by Jara. Jīvo jīvete krīdāṁ kriyā jarāsandho 'bhavat sūta. So jīva jīva? Become...

Prabhupāda: Become alive. Jīva. Become alive.

Pradyumna: You had here, "O living entity, just be alive"?

Prabhupāda: Jīva, addressing jīvete. "Be alive."

Pradyumna: And kridantya. "Playing like that"?

Prabhupāda: Playing, joining. Get, be alive, be alive. Like that.

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: My Guru Mahārāja purchased two camels. I did not... I do not know what happened, but he purchased.

Gurudāsa: I think Tīrtha Mahārāja was fighting with someone else over them.

Prabhupāda: No, it is long ago.

Dr. Patel: We have a story in Mahābhārata that all Ataravart, he can do. The Hastināpura in just when Abhimanyu was going for fight. In those days they were using camels.

Gurudāsa: In Rajastan they use widely.

Dr. Patel: Rajastan is a desert.

Prabhupāda: No, Vṛndāvana quarter there are many camels.

Dr. Patel: Everywhere there is camel.

Gurudāsa: They're using camels at the Mela. For carrying things they're using camels now.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya Kṛṣṇa.

Rāmeśvara: "There are two legal cases in progress at this time that we must support—one in New York and one in Los Angeles. In New York the two ISKCON leaders have been indicted by the Queens County Grand Jury for unlawful imprisonment and attempted grand larceny. In Los Angeles, ISKCON and Madonna Slavin have accused her family of kidnapping, and charges of unlawful imprisonment have been entered against the mother and several other members of the Slavin family and two friends." These two friends are the professional deprogrammers. Then it says, "As in nearly all of these cases, the media will greatly influence the outcome. Do not underestimate the power of the media. We therefore must tell our story..."

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's already become media.

Rāmeśvara: "We must therefore tell our story to them in great number, and in this way the world will hear of it. As of this date, HK," short for Hare Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: They're chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. (laughter) They're chanting Kṛṣṇa. Yes.

Rāmeśvara: They say, "As of this date, Hare Kṛṣṇa has been able to flood both the media and the District Attorney's offices with support for their side..."

Prabhupāda: They're admitting. That's good.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: No woman smaller than Kuntī could have produced an Arjuna.

Prabhupāda: You can produce. That is another thing. A cook can produce foodstuff suitable for rich man, but that does not mean he is rich man.

Dr. Patel: You argue. (laughs)

Haṁsadūta: Prabhupāda, you told one story about the animals having a meeting and trying to become free from the control of (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Our śāstras say (Sanskrit).

Prabhupāda: (Sanskrit) Everyone is (Sanskrit). That is according to his position. That does not mean equal. Kṛṣṇa Himself worshiped Sudāmā Vipra. That does not mean Sudāmā Vipra is as good as the Personality of Godhead. When Nārada was coming in Dvārakā, Kṛṣṇa immediately got down and... Nārada was smiling, "Just see the fun." But etiquette. Nārada never said that "I am better than Kṛṣṇa or equal to Kṛṣṇa." Never said.

Morning Darsana and Room Conversation Ramkrishna Bajaj and friends -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Girirāja: Yes, they take it that the hereditary qualities that a person inherits is determined by these genes. So now they're thinking that if they can control the genes, they can create their own type of human being according to their own...

Prabhupāda: They can't. That, this nonsense speaking, is going on throughout the history, but they'll never be able. That is the fact. "We are trying. We shall do in future"—these things are going on. But this is all stories. We don't believe in these nonsense things. They'll never be happy. That is not possible. Therefore I challenged your technology that "Where is that department? Do it!" First of all do it. Suppose if a man is in business. He may say that "I am trying to become a millionaire." But he cannot say that "I am millionaire." So the so-called scientist, "Yes, we are trying." You are trying, that's all right. But when you become, then you call scientist. There is no possibility, and because you are trying I have to accept you are scientist? Recently in California University one professor came. He has gained the Nobel Prize, Chemical Evolution. They are trying to prove that life is generated by chemical evolution. So in that meeting I had my one student. He's Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara. He's also big chemist. So he knows. He talks with me. He has got the idea. He has written one book, Scientific Basis of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness. So he challenged that "Suppose if I give you the chemicals, can you produce life?" The answer—"That I cannot say." Why he talks nonsense? He is theorizing that life is made of chemicals, but if you give the chemicals, why you cannot make life? When I was in South Africa... Where is that? Pretoria or something? There are many factories for chicken killing. Chicken incubator. So one of the students, worker there, I said, "Suppose this is a chicken factory. So take one egg and analyze the chemicals. There is some white substance, yellow substance. It is covered with some cell. You can do it, and put that in the incubator and get a chicken. Why don't you do that?" The rascal could not answer. "Don't talk of big, big life. Make a chicken." And this rascal cannot do that, and still, they'll talk big, big words. What do you think? Are they not rascals? These rascals they are talking big, big words. First of all prove. Make one egg. Then talk of big, big brain. Make one egg. It is... Everyone can see. There is some white chemicals and some yellow chemicals, and it is covered, and it... You analyze and combine the chemical in the same way and put it in the incubator and get one chicken. Why? You are technologist. Say why they cannot do it. And when they cannot do it, why they talk so big, big word, mislead others and mislead himself?

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: But do you say like that?

Rāmeśvara: No, they are distorting. But that is their ar... And just like they use your Back to Godhead article about Arjuna on the battlefield, that sometimes we may even have to kill our relatives for Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: So, suppose if God said that "You kill," what you will do?

Rāmeśvara: Our argument is just that, that in the Bible, God told Abraham, "You must kill your son Isaac." This is a famous story in the Bible. So Abraham took his son and was ready to chop off his head. And God felt sorry and He stopped him. But that story is there in the Bible, that God told Abraham to kill his son, and Abraham was ready to do it. It does not mean that the Jewish religion is based on killing your son.

Jagadīśa: It was a test of his faith.

Rāmeśvara: It was a test of his faith. The same story of Arjuna, he had to kill for Kṛṣṇa. It's actually a good argument when they say that.

Prabhupāda: You have got sugar candy?

Hari-śauri: I don't think she packed any. Oh, sugar? She must have packed it. I'll have to find Pālikā, 'cause she has everything.

Rāmeśvara: They think that if our devotees are willing to do whatever you say, it must mean that they are brainwashed. They have given up their independence, so therefore they are brainwashed. If they are willing to follow anyone blindly, like a slave...

Prabhupāda: That is your instruction also. Jehovah says that you shall not worship any other God. So, Jesus Christ says also that you shall not worship. So that is the way of preaching. That is required.

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Rāmeśvara: One thing they will like to see in this movie is many different temples, beautiful temples from South India, and also Vaiṣṇava festivals.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: Like Ratha-yatra in Jagannātha Purī.

Prabhupāda: And the stories also, that how by executing one of the items a devotee became perfect.

Hari-śauri: And show how they're doing those...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: ...items in different sampradāyas and...

Rāmeśvara: This will show, this movie will show, that Vaiṣṇava is very authorized.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Rāmeśvara: Chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa is widespread. Because that... They are criticizing.

Prabhupāda: No, no, this, this, this śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ, this śloka, was cited just little after the creation. That means millions and millions of years ago. Now, not recently. Many millions and billions of years ago. That is the oldest. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam (SB 7.5.23). Whichever item you take, it is very, very... Just like this Parīkṣit Mahārāja. That is at least five thousand years ago. So where is the history of the human society in the Western countries? They cannot give history more than three thousand years.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: Yes. They have outdistributed everyone, even in America.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Paraṁ vijāyate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. Just see how small animal it is, and how freely it is going. Let them manufacture a small animal like this with chemicals. It has got all the symptoms of animal. It has got the desire. It has thinking, feeling, willing, then eating, sleeping, mating. Everything is there. And as such, the anatomic physiology is there, within such a full stop. Everything is there. If you check them going here, they'll protest. And wherefrom they are coming? Where they are going? Just see how small it is. You cannot see even with naked eyes, so small. But it has all life symptoms. And they say there is no soul.

Rāmeśvara: No, it is some wonderful chemical mixture that they have not discovered yet, very mysterious chemistry. It is all based on this idea of a study of genes and chromosomes, genetics. They have so many words for describing how it happens.

Prabhupāda: Jugglery, word jugglery.

Rāmeśvara: DNA, RNA.

Hari-śauri: But they still can't explain the power force that activates them. They still can't explain the actual source of power that activates those chemicals.

Prabhupāda: They cannot. It is not possible.

Rāmeśvara: In the late 1800's there was a very famous story in America called Frankenstein.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: ...available plots.

Gargamuni: Yes, there's those two plots on that main... Now, there's many broken buildings there, many. I drove all around. But the plots are too small.

Rāmeśvara: You'd have to buy several of them together.

Gargamuni: Yes. And also they're out of the city. They're more out of reach. They're not in that... That one area is the best area. There's a two-lane road. You know, traffic going one way and traffic going another way with an island in the center.

Rāmeśvara: And all the hotels are there.

Gargamuni: And all the hotels are there, so all the top people are there.

Rāmeśvara: It sounds like Bombay.

Gargamuni: And that Purī hotel was packed up with foreigners and with local people very nicely dressed. And this plot is just near the Purī hotel. So it's a nice area, and the breeze is wonderful, very nice breeze from the ocean. So if we build a nice multi-story, that breeze will be very healthy.

Prabhupāda: So...

Gargamuni: So I have to leave here tomorrow morning at 8:30 and meet with the man at around 9:30, 10:00, and he'll give me all the names and addresses, and he'll show me some other plots. Then, perhaps, if maybe you would like to see it the following day, we can drive there and show you the plot as soon as I get more information.

Rāmeśvara: Would you like to do that, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: No. They never even wrote him. They didn't care. And there's still a foundation. From 1948 there is a foundation there of a building which was started in 1947 or '48, and I was very surprised because the building has a frame of steel girders, not cement but steel, big steel girder. It has a frame. I think it's about a two-story building, say half the size of Māyāpur building, half the size. And the frame is still there. I asked Pañcaratna who went there if it was still there or whether it was blown away by the war. He said, "No, it is still there." So there's already a building. There's a stone wall around the property. I think it's around, maybe, about three-quarters to an acre. But it's in the heart of the city. It's in a good area, a very populated area but very nice area also.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: So I thought I would go there and see and then come back, get a new visa and then return and give a report.

Prabhupāda: So it will be nice. That was started by my Guru Mahārāja. We have to take.

Gargamuni: Yes. Because after he goes there's nothing.

Prabhupāda: Tīrtha Mahārāja was planning to exchange that property with a Calcutta Muhammadan, that he would give him that property, and this Muhammadan would give him this property, his property. I checked it. I approached the donor, the Bali-hatti(?) zamindar, that "You donated this temple and it is going to be in the hands of Muhammadan. Do you like it?" So he said, "No, I don't like it." I said, "Make it inquiry." He inquired, and he immediately wrote Tīrtha Mahārāja that "You are contemplating. This we do not approve. We are the donor." So Tīrtha Mahārāja replied him that "It is no more in the hands of the donor. I am the trustee. Whatever I like, I can do."

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: It was written for this purpose. People are suffering by their concocted culture, suffering. And Guru Mahārāja wanted this. Actually it is his mission, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. But I am... I have tried sincerely. I am not qualified, but only qualification is that I tried to do the best. That's all, that much qualification. I had faith in their program, and I thought, "I shall try my best, whatever capacity I have got." That's all. Yasya deve parā bhaktir tathā deve tathā gurau (ŚU 6.23). Little confident that "Why? If Caitanya Mahāprabhu wants it, my Guru Mahārāja wants it, why it will not be successful? Let me try." That's all. Mukhaṁ karoti vācālaṁ panguṁ laṅghayate girim: "A dumb man can become orator." (laughs) It is like that. I never thought that they will praise so much. What it is possible? Mukhaṁ karoti vācālam. (laughs) "A dumb man can become orator, and a lame man can cross over the mountain." Yat kṛpā tam ahaṁ vande śrī-guruṁ dīna-tāraṇam. By the mercy of guru it is possible. So these are not stories. They are fact. That is spiritual life. All right.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: Then he closes the article by giving references to many books which describe this.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Which book?

Rāmeśvara: He first of all refers to Plato, the old Greek philosopher. In one of his books, Book Ten of the Republic, he describes a soldier. No, he gives a story which supports the idea of transmigration of soul.

Prabhupāda: Plato.

Rāmeśvara: Plato.

Prabhupāda: Hm. That's a fact.

Rāmeśvara: Then he mentions that in the Bible there is no information, so you have to look elsewhere.

Prabhupāda: Read Bhagavad-gītā.

Rāmeśvara: Unfortunately he has not come across the Vedas. I have already written a letter to some devotees in Los Angeles to meet this man and give him your Third Canto, Volume Four, which describes the movements of the living entity, development in the womb... I think he'll be shocked to read these things.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Oh, hundred miles? (break)

Brahmānanda: ...here to Allahabad, I was coming from Bombay on the train. I was riding with some respectable people. They saw this button, and they said, "Oh, you are the disciple of Prabhupāda?" And I said, "Yes." And they were very appreciative of your work. And then I had one Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Eighth Canto, the story of Gajendra. And one man wanted to see the book. And he started reading it, and he kept the book throughout the whole journey, and he read the whole book, and he loved it. He said, "Your guru has written very nicely, very simply, very directly, and everything is there." He wouldn't give me back the book until he finished it.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) So our book-selling appreciated all over the world.

Brahmānanda: Yes. And this is an Indian, he's a Hindu, so he knows Vedic culture, but still he liked your books very much. He said, "I've never read something like this."

Prabhupāda: Our presentation is simplified. That is the beauty.

Brahmānanda: Yes. That's what he appreciated.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We do not make the things cumbersome.

Room Conversation with Film Producer about Krsna Lila -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: No, he asked this question.

Guest (1): Who can kill the supreme power?

Guest (2): Oriya Bhāgavatam also it is said that no one can kill...

Prabhupāda: No, the atheist class, they ask this question: "Kṛṣṇa was killed; therefore He's ordinary man."

Guest (1): It is a story.

Prabhupāda: Not story. So you have to learn Kṛṣṇa. That is my point. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaya... (BG 7.3).

Guest (1): (Oriyan)

Guest (3) (Indian man): Our grandfather, grandmother, all were addicted to Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa. But we have forgotten it.

Prabhupāda: You have forgotten, so that now you are asking, "What is God?" This is your position.

Guest (1): That is what happened now.

Prabhupāda: So you should know your position first of all.

Room Conversation with Two Indian Guests -- January 27, 1977, Jagannatha Puri:

Guest (1): No, that is very difficult. That is very, very difficult.

Prabhupāda: Not difficult, but it requires elevation. So we should not imitate.

Guest (1): No, I mean desires... Just like your idol worship. Idol worship is not actually fruitless or anything. It's only to imagine God in it and just to have the concentration.

Prabhupāda: No, but idol worship is... These atheists, they say "idol worship," but we do not say. The... Here is Sākṣi-Gopāla. You know the story, Sākṣi-Gopāla? Two brāhmaṇas? So he never saw that He is idol. He saw Kṛṣṇa. So he said, "Kṛṣṇa, before You this man has promised. Now he's declining. So please come and give witness." And that is Sākṣi-Gopāla. So for a devotee, no. There is no idol.

Guest (1): No idol. No, that idol is actually, they are planned to...

Prabhupāda: No, no, that is actually happened. The so-called idol, He went to be witness. He came from Vṛndāvana to Cuttack. So "idol worship" is they say. But devotee... Just like people are coming by thousands to see Jagannātha. Do they come to see idol? Wooden Jagannātha? They come to see real Jagannātha, Bhagavān Kṛṣṇa. Otherwise why they will spend so much money and take so much trouble and come here? The atheists may say, "How foolish they are. They are coming here to see a wooden figure and spending so much money." That is the statement of the atheist. But a devotee comes to see—"Kṛṣṇa is here." Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu saw—immediately fainted. So there are two visions. Therefore it is forbidden. Arcye viṣṇau śilā-dhīr guruṣu nara-matir vaiṣṇave jāti-buddhiḥ. So the atheist class, they see, "Here is a wooden... Oh, what is the Jagannātha made of? Wood or stone?" They're seeing wood and stone. Similarly, Vaiṣṇavas also they're seeing, "a American," "European." They are blind.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Tortoise and?

Satsvarūpa: Rabbit.

Prabhupāda: Rabbit. Yes.

Gurukṛpā: You know the story?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Your scientific knowledge, your car, means you are more dependent. Now, suppose you have to stay here. You had to, some very important business. Now whole thing is finished. But if you have calculated without having this car, then you would have done your duty. So the more material advancement means more you become dependent, more you become rascal. That is calculation by Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura. Jaḍa-vidyā jato, māyāra vaibhava, jīvake karaye gādhā, tomāra bhajane bādhā. Anitya saṁsāre, moha janamiyā, jīvake karaye gādhā. My business is that how to leave this material conditional life and become free. Now, with this so-called advancement of science I am becoming more and more attached. So I'll never get freedom. This is the result. Because I am trying in different way how to get, freedom. "Yes, wait millions of years. We shall do it. We shall do this." Gādhā, ass. You'll die trillions of times within millions of years, and he is expecting good result of his scientific... By the time, he'll become a banyan tree and stand there by nature's law, and he's expecting good result after millions of years. So gādhā, ass. Durāśaya. This has been described as durāśaya. He's expecting something, hoping something, will never be fulfilled. They calculate. "Millions of years we shall get how to make life." And the, an ordinary chicken, he is doing this within seven days. And these rascals will have to wait for millions of years and wait that a life is coming from the egg, and other rascals, set of rascals, they are accepting. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's statement is jīvake karaye gādhā. He's already an ass. He becomes a more ass, big ass.

Room Conversation -- January 28, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So simply hear them. That's all. One big barrister, he was my friend. He is dead, M. C. Chatterji. He's a very big barrister. He used to charge sixteen thousand rupees for one appearance. So he was stating about when..., that he came to Vṛndāvana, and he met one boy, and "He asked me some sweets, I gave him sweet. Later on, when I was coming back to Delhi, I saw that boy was running on the train." He said. Such a big barrister, he said like that. "Oh, he was so..." Posturing like this. What can I say? "Kṛṣṇa as cowherd boy was running after you in the train?" This is going on. Another friend's wife, she came to Jagannātha Purī. So Jagannātha Purī, those who are rich men, they are allowed to go near the Jagannātha. So that lady said that "While I was circumambulating, Jagannātha was snatching my cloth." Jagannātha became so much attached with that blackish woman that He began to snatch his (her) cloth. So many stories I know. So what can be said? "Why did you not remain with Jagannātha? Why you came back?" This is going on. So I have got experience of many such stories. Kṛṣṇa as cowherd boy was running with his train. I have to take. And Jagannātha was snatching her cloth. They are very poisonous things. I was never fortunate with such incidences. I am simply trying to carry out the order of my Guru Mahārāja. That's all.

Pṛthu-putra: It was never such story as people having contact with Kṛṣṇa, anything like this. That never went on. That was never going on.

Room Conversation -- January 29, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: Not Delhi?

Prabhupāda: No. Delhi has become important on account of capital.

Satsvarūpa: Politics.

Prabhupāda: Government.

Satsvarūpa: International government.

Prabhupāda: From business point... Now they're making Delhi industrially developed. That is new attempt. But Calcutta, Bombay, Kanpur is old... Calcutta is manufactured by the British. Bombay also manufactured. But Kanpur is older, very old. Kanyakubja. That Ajāmila upākhyāna?(?) Ajāmila?

Hari-śauri: Ajāmila.

Prabhupāda: Ajāmila story, that was in Kanpur. Very, very old city. Kanpur, Mathurā, they are very old cities. Allahabad, Prayāga. Prehistoric. Manipur. (end)

Room Conversation -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. That's all right. But you cannot say that He does not come to showing mercy to a prophet. He may come if He likes. That is mission. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnām (BG 4.8). One who is actually devotee, prophet, he's always anxious to see what they (indistinct). So in order to favor them, (Sanskrit). What is their proposition?

Pṛthu-putra: In the story of Koran they say Muhammad once asked to see God, and God's answer was, "You're not able to see Me."

Prabhupāda: That's all right. At least he could hear Him. So that is possible. Not that necessarily one has to see Him, but he can hear Him. Now, you have said that Muhammad heard Him, so God can speak. So you can hear. So where is the objection?

Pṛthu-putra: No objection.

Prabhupāda: Muhammad... If somebody can hear Him, somebody can see Him also. You cannot deny because they're all senses. To hear God means with my senses we appreciate Him. Similarly, eyes are also one of the senses. Now if somebody sees Him, where is the objection? If somebody can hear Him, where is the objection if somebody can see Him? Reasonably, there is no objection. In this way... So God is omnipotent. If some of His prophet devotees wants to hear Him, he can do that, if wants to see Him, he can do that.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes. In Texas they also produce some books. Where are those books?

Hari-śauri: They have a sample here.

Prabhupāda: Why again?

Satsvarūpa: Who has produced some books?

Hari-śauri: I just saw this one book called The Story of Mādhavendra Purī.

Satsvarūpa: I think they want to do a better quality than that.

Prabhupāda: No, no, why better quality?

Hari-śauri: Actually this man that was here from that college the other day, he saw one of those Gurukula books and he said, "Oh, what is this?" He saw the Gopal Coloring Book. He said, "Can I get a sample?" Very nice.

Satsvarūpa: At any rate, even that one had many illustrations in it, that Mādhavendra Purī. So he was wanting to know if he could... In order to get all these paintings done, these so many drawings, whether he could employ some Jaipur artists that Saurabha is working with, which would be inexpensive.

Prabhupāda: Jaipur artists?

Satsvarūpa: There's some... Just like village craftsmen and workers that Saurabha is working with in Bombay who are making the furniture and different decorations in Bombay, and he says that Saurabha also knows some men in these villages who are artists, and they work for very little, but they can make nice authentic illustrations of all these things, whether...

Prabhupāda: Hm, that is all right. I do not know.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: On the plane?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: On the plane. When I went also, we were in the same plane, because he was making a bridge in Manipur. So he invited me to come to his place in Calcutta, in Balliganj. When also I came back we were in the same plane. It just happened. So he started talking to me that he lost about forty thousand rupees because bridge was broken, and so he said he was feeling very bad, very sad. He was telling me all stories about "Whether I should prepare my life for the future, or whether I should wind up, as he is. Then I started talking about that we always want to be happy, but somehow we misunderstand about our basic position, what position we shall take up, whether... He said he has great difficulty in making decisions, "Whether I shall decide this," so many problems, not knowing what to decide. So we started talking about the real nature of knowledge. The real knowledge is to understand the real difference between this life and matter, the fundamental principle of knowledge.

Prabhupāda: This is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's the difficulty.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, that is the... If one wants to be cheated and wants to cheat others, you cannot... Sarpaḥ krūraḥ khalaḥ krūraḥ. There are crooked living entities; one who is snake, and one is man. So you can control the snake, but you cannot control this rascal crooked man. That is very difficult. Khalaḥ kena nivāryate. He'll remain crooked, however you say. I told you that story? Scissor? Scissor? Yes. Because he's human being, he'll persist, and the other one, the animal, you can bring her, bring that animal under control. But because he is human being, you cannot bring him under control. He will persist.

Gurukṛpā: What was that story of Caesar?

Prabhupāda: Huh? Tell him.

Satsvarūpa: Scissors. Two men were arguing...

Gurukṛpā: Oh, the scissors.

Prabhupāda: Scissor logic.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Yaśodānandana: Yasmād kṣaram atito 'ham akṣarād atito 'ham.(?) One who knows Kṛṣṇa knows everything.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. If you simply study Kṛṣṇa, then you'll study everything. Janma karma ca me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ (BG 4.9). He becomes immediately liberated. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti. He becomes competent to enter in the spiritual world and associate with Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, just like that story with the scissors, how can we force the scientists to accept Kṛṣṇa and the Bhagavad-gītā. How can we force the scientists to accept Bhagavad-gītā? The problem seems to be...

Prabhupāda: No, if it is a fact, you can force, if it is a fact. And if it is not fact, then it is obstinacy. If it is reality, you can force, just like the father forces the child, "Go to school." Because he knows without education his life will be frustrated, so he can force. I was forced. I was not going to school. Yes. My mother forced. My father was very lenient. My mother forced me. She kept one man especially to drag me to the school. So force is required.

Room Conversation -- February 12, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So tomorrow you'll go to see whom?

Jayapatākā: I was thinking to go Monday because tomorrow is Sunday.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Jayapatākā: So many times they've come. I don't see that suddenly their story should change so drastically.

Prabhupāda: They came before also?

Jayapatākā: Oh yes. They came even to Māyāpur. They have shown some enthusiasm and now at the last minute, they'll change their story so much.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayapatākā: It doesn't seem... It might be some misunderstanding.

Prabhupāda: And why they don't reply it? We have...

Jayapatākā: Yes, they have... They should give us, anyway, written reply. Why they are verbally saying? Whatever they say, they should say in writing. We have written. (break)

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...milk, you get gobar.

Room Conversation -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: I wanted that all our books should be given to the court: "This is our statement." Let him read. He can...

Brahmānanda: We received that tape where you tell the story of Mr. Ghosh bringing all the books just to...

Hari-śauri: "Just to teach you law."

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Hari-śauri: "Just to teach you law."

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. There was big lawyer. In those days he was earning not less than thirty-thousand per month. Rajbery Ghosh, Doctor. He was Doctor. So in one case he brought so many books in the court, the judge remarked, "Well, Dr. Ghosh, You have brought the whole library?" "Yes, my lord, just to teach you law." (laughs) No, any statement we give, it has to be considered. They cannot neglect. So you can simply put these books, eighty-four books: "This is our statement. You read them. Then give your judgement." How do you think? Did you consult any lawyer?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We're going to do it. It can be done.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: They were arranging my brain operation.

Brahmānanda: In New York. They threatened us that it must be done, that you must stay in the hospital. The refused that you should leave the hospital, and they wanted to take all these tests, spine..., put needles in the spine.

Hari-śauri: I read a story when we were in the U.S. about one doctor there. They took him to court, and they described how in order to get money, he was doing a very specialized operation on the spine. And he would tell people, for any reason at all, he would tell them that they must have this operation even when it wasn't necessary. And he was taking at the same time eight amphetamines every day to keep himself going. And he made so many mistakes, and all these people after the operations, they would come and they were paralyzed, or one man, his skin became so sensitive that he couldn't wear a shirt or anything because it was too painful, and another person would be crippled in another way from his mistakes that he made. And he was doing it simply on the basis to get more money. And at the same time he was living in a $100,000 house and maintaining big, big cars and like that. Then when they investigated him, they found out all these things.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The whole profession is crooked. She told that they have a cure for cancer. There's a cure for cancer. It comes from a natural herb available in South America. But the American Medical Association has forbidden the importation of this herb, because if they import it, then all of their cancer work is finished. And they're making billions of dollars doing cancer research. So they won't allow this herb to be imported. It has no bad effect, but they will not allow its importation. So one of our devotees, Jayānanda, you know he has cancer now.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Oh, he has very severe case of cancer.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And burn part of the brain, destroy the brain. One girl in our temple in New York, her father is the owner of Financed Foods, which is a very big food market chain like A P supermarkets, very big, and her father owns it. So she... When she was young or before joining, she was a hippie. So her father didn't like that she was a hippie, so he had her put in the mental institution, and for 120 days in a row every day they gave her these shock treatments, and now she cannot remember hardly anything. When we talk to her she is just like, almost like a vegetable. I mean to say she cannot function as a normal person because her brain has been destroyed. Her father was trying to make her normal. Still, she has become a devotee. Now her father has again called her, telling her that he wants to have her go to the hospital to make her more "sane." He's destroyed his daughter, but he doesn't see that. I don't know if I told you about the person in Texas. Did I tell that story?

Hari-śauri: No.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No? Recently, about a month ago... This will give you an indication of the nature of how many people are becoming in America, and especially the authorities are becoming very unjust. One man had a son in Texas and the boy was smoking marijuana. He was smoking for about a month or two. So for two weeks, when his father came to know, his father was telling him, "You should stop this smoking of marijuana," but the boy continued to smoke it. So one night the father came into the boy's room, took out a gun and shot his brains, killed him.

Prabhupāda: Killed him?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Killed his own son because he was smoking marijuana.

Morning Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Profession.

Hari-śauri: One of my friends was considering, "Shall I..." He had come to a point where he was thinking, "Now I'll either become a police officer or I'll become a priest." But he couldn't quite make his mind up.

Prabhupāda: In our college days we read one book. That was our textbook. It is a story, that a boy was meant for church and he fell in love with a girl. That is the psychology. Cloister and the Hearth. What is the cloister?

Hari-śauri: Inner sanctuary.

Prabhupāda: And hearth? Home.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Home.

Prabhupāda: That book was named Cloister and Hearth. So get Bombay finished very quickly and book-printing, stock, propaganda. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...society is growing on that principle.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This I want to increase more and more. No money in the bank. In the books. And as soon as there will be stock of book, it has to be sold. Otherwise you will starve. (chuckling) That I want.

Morning Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is summary study of the Tenth Canto. That is also very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh.

Hari-śauri: Kṛṣṇa book stories are wonderful.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Most popular book.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, they love that. Of course, Bhagavad-gītā is the most well known, but people enjoy that Kṛṣṇa book. From the Kṛṣṇa book they get the clear idea who Kṛṣṇa is.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That was my... "Let them know at least what is Kṛṣṇa." That is selling nicely.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Very nicely. I would say that the lay public, that is to say the people who attend our temples but are not becoming the full-time devotees, they especially read Kṛṣṇa book and Gītā.

Prabhupāda: And that theologian, he says, "I want to support Kṛṣṇa." He said?

Room Conversation about BTG the Moon -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: This... There are some statements. Just like molten iron, a man can break for illicit sex. What is their objection?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well they think it's superstition. They think it is simply some stories.

Hari-śauri: Some fantastic...

Prabhupāda: Story means it is story for you. Do you know the details of the whole universe, where, what is what? Can you do? You go and say there is no moonshine, but this rascal conclusion will be taken. Why there should be shine? From the sand such brilliant moonshine is coming? We have to believe that? So many books have said (indistinct) brilliant. Sun is brilliant. This... So you rascal, you can believe in that, but we'll not believe. You can say. What do you know about moon? It is all rascaldom. It may be good for rascals like you, not for intelligent man like me.

Room Conversation -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: And anywhere there is some connection with Caitanya Mahāprabhu, we shall try push to develop on this principle. Besides that, as many other centers here. Pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi. That will make our movement triumphant. And demons are always against. That is old story everywhere.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In regard to Hyderabad, can we ask Mahāṁśa to send an account of how he uses the money that you give him? You're going to be giving him money from the Trust Fund.

Prabhupāda: I've already given them. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He should send account of... (break)

Prabhupāda: How he may... Some more money is spent or less money, that doesn't matter. We want to see whether the result is there. I understand in that way. Phalena paricīyate. Account... You may spend ten rupees more or less; it doesn't matter. I never kept. I want to see the result, that's all. I was asking Tripurāri that whether this opposition has hurt our book selling. He said no. Is it all right?

Room Conversations -- February 20, 1977, Mayapura:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He can also give wonderful guru.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya bhakti-latā-bīja (CC Madhya 19.151). It is Kṛṣṇa's wonderful mercy that one can get guru. Guru-kṛṣṇa-prasāde pāya. Don't forget for a moment, that Kṛṣṇa is insignificant. He's always the most wonderful. He can do anything, whatever He likes. They have no such belief. They have no such idea. They are different. "We believe in this." Not believe. This is a fact! You believe or not believe, who cares for you? Fact is fact. So arrange. We shall go. (break) "...Kṛṣṇa is wonderful," that makes one perfect. You know that story? The cobbler and Nārada Muni? Hm? The cobbler believed, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is wonderful." And Nārada Muni immediately certified, "Yes, your salvation, this life guaranteed." The cobbler has his conviction, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is wonderful. Kṛṣṇa can do anything. Kṛṣṇa can draw an elephant through the hole of a needle. Why not? It's possible." That faith made him perfect. If Kṛṣṇa is not wonderful, is it possible for me to do all these things? What I am?

Arrival of Devotees -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes, you have seen.

Rādhā-vallabha: Printing quantity is up here.

Rāmeśvara: "Two and one-quarter million copies in print." They can understand that millions of people are studying this. And at the bottom of the back cover there is a review by a scholar, a professor of Humanities, Religious Studies and South Asian Studies at the University of Minnesota, which is one of the largest schools in America, Dr. Robert Tap. He says, "Kṛṣṇa has been too transforming a figure for too many people to remain confined to India or to be known only through the Bhagavad-gītā. Here we have the rounding out of His story that has proven so fruitful for Indian art, song, dance, and devotion." "...the rounding out of His story."

Rādhā-vallabha: Perfection of Yoga also has the printing quantity on the cover, "Over 2,300,000 copies in print."

Rāmeśvara: Gorgeous! Look at those pictures of Prabhupāda!

Rādhā-vallabha: We also calculated how many hardbound Bhāgavatams are in print. That's one million. And there's almost three million Gītās in print too.

Prabhupāda: So this should be displayed here.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: No picture?

Rāmeśvara: They're at the printers. When we return they'll be printed. We left Jagannātha-sūta there to supervise the printing, and we left enough artists to start painting the Third Volume, the final volume. So there are two paintings describing the story of Mahārāja Yayāti...

Prabhupāda: Yayāti.

Rāmeśvara: ...how he was cursed to lose his youthfulness and so on.

Prabhupāda: Śukrācārya.

Rāmeśvara: This first sketch shows Śiva and Pārvatī are passing on the road. These women were bathing, and they are running to cover themselves. And this is the beginning of the fight between the women over the clothing, and Śukrācārya's daughter was thrown into a well.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: Then because of that, Yayāti was cursed, because later on, the woman that threw her into the well, he, she became like a mistress.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They were friends. Then they became rivals. Hm. So that's all right.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Rāmeśvara: Cause the scientists, when they draw pictures of the atom, they show these rings.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Hm.

Rāmeśvara: Now, this picture, this shows the story of King Rantideva's renunciation. He was fasting for so long, and these different personalities were coming.

Prabhupāda: And he was distributing.

Rāmeśvara: They had to give up his food. But actually, it said that these personalities were actually Lord Śiva and Lord Brahmā, testing him. So they've shown... How was it shown?

Muralīdhara: He's semi-transparent, so you get the idea that he's there and not there at the same time.

Prabhupāda: Backside.

Muralīdhara: Right behind the...

Hari-śauri: Both of these two figures are the same person. It's just to show that he's actually Lord Śiva, but he's appearing as a beggar.

Muralīdhara: His whole body will show...

Hari-śauri: So he's like a semi-transparent Lord Śiva.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That's not good.

Rāmeśvara: In the past we were using either a photograph of devotees on the cover doing something or a painting. And in the middle of the magazine we used to have stories either from Kṛṣṇa book or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Rāmeśvara: Then there was the use for some pictures.

Prabhupāda: So, do this.

Rāmeśvara: Sometimes they don't... They print different contents.

Prabhupāda: No, we are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa must be there.

Hari-śauri: We can't produce a magazine without Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Without Kṛṣṇa. That is not good. We cannot allow.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Without Kṛṣṇa. That is not good. We cannot allow.

Rāmeśvara: I mean, the only place for pictures of Kṛṣṇa...

Prabhupāda: No, every, every...

Rāmeśvara: ...is in illustrating a story. When illustrating one of the pastimes....

Prabhupāda: No. We print... We must, therefore, publish Bhāgavatam, Kṛṣṇa philosophy.

Rāmeśvara: We're publishing Bhāgavatam as an insert in each magazine.

Prabhupāda: Yes, so that must be there.

Rāmeśvara: So then there could be a picture to relate to that.

Prabhupāda: A picture of Kṛṣṇa philosophy in the... Yes.

Hari-śauri: There's always an article of Your Divine Grace anyway, and you're always speaking about Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Evening Darsana -- February 26, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Not all. (laughter) Not all. The fortunate, those who are so fortunate, they are now opposing me. The Western people, they are now opposing this movement, so they are not fortunate. So everywhere there are fortunate and unfortunate. But mostly in this age they are unfortunate. Either in the Western countries or in this country, they are unfortunate mostly. They cannot understand. In India at least those who are not very educated, mass of people, they believe transmigration of the soul. They very easily believe it because culture is based on that, pūrva-janma paro janma. They believe that "If I act sinfully, then I'll have to suffer next life, and because I did not do properly, therefore I am suffering in this life." Still they believe. But the so-called educated people, they are trying to set aside this. They say, "Superstition." And the leaders say that "India, giving more stress on the soul, not on the body, India's position is so degraded." This is the leaders' opinion. Big, big leaders, they think. Therefore the so-called leaders or learned scholars, they write notes on Bhagavad-gītā, but they never give any idea of spiritual life. They utilize Bhagavad-gītā for material end. This is going on. Just like our big leader, Gandhi. He was supposed to be very strict follower of Bhagavad-gītā, and he has never instructed about spiritual life.

Nārāyaṇa: Satsvarūpa Mahārāja was telling a story on the way back from the Ganges that you had said that Gandhi, he was supposed to be mahātmā, but after he won victory, independence, by his activities, then they said, "Now you can stop meat-eating. You can stop cow slaughter throughout India." He says, "No, no. How can we do this? The Muhammadans, the Muslims, they are eating meat."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- February 27, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Ah. Now they are... They'll, "Hm." That's all right. (laughter) No, if there is substance they will take it. They're intelligent persons. Yes. Simply by propaganda you cannot make them fool. I know German nation. They're intelligent.

Harikeśa: And in Austria the amazing thing is...

Prabhupāda: And by propaganda you can make anyone fool. Dāsa cakre bhagavān bhūta.(?) You know this story?

Harikeśa: No.

Prabhupāda: One man... So he had many friends. So they made a plea that we shall...

Harikeśa: Oh, say he's a ghost.

Prabhupāda: "Here is a..." (laughter) So he began to think, "Maybe I have become ghost. Everyone said that I am ghost, I am ghost." Soi dāsa cakre bhagavān. He not ghost, but by the propaganda, he began to think, "Maybe I have become ghost."

Room Conversation 'GBC Resolutions' -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So everything is like that. Why do you endeavor to make it easier?

Rāmeśvara: I think their point is like this, that sometimes in Back to Godhead...

Prabhupāda: Give me some example that "This is difficult, and if you put it in this way it will be easier."

Rāmeśvara: It's for telling a story, whereas in the Bhāgavatam...

Jagadīśa: We're talking about children's books.

Rāmeśvara: Children's books.

Jagadīśa: For the gurukula.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. Can you explain that?

Jagadīśa: For example, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we take Bhagavad-gītā...

Gurukṛpā: Eight hundred dollars.

Prabhupāda: Oh. This is American?

Bhagavān: It's French money.

Room Conversation 'GBC Resolutions' -- March 1, 1977, Mayapura:

Jagadīśa: If we take the first purport in the Bhagavad-gītā...

Prabhupāda: Purport is not for the children. They should simply understand the word meaning. That's all. Purport is not for the children.

Jagadīśa: They need something to read.

Rāmeśvara: Stories.

Jagadīśa: Need to practice reading.

Prabhupāda: So that is not Bhagavad-gītā.

Jagadīśa: No. So then we have Kṛṣṇa book. Bhagavad-gītā is not used for the younger children. Bhagavad-gītā is used after they are nine or ten.

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa book also difficult, but there is some philosophy sometimes.

Rāmeśvara: Actually all the time. You have given philosophy on every page.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- March 24, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we haven't seen it yet, but we've heard that there's a full-page feature story about our court case in Time magazine. Bali-mardana saw it.

Bali-mardana: One of the first pages, under "Religion." Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the most important magazine in the world, Time magazine. What is the circulation? Hṛdayānanda: In every country in the world. Devotee: Did I get enough? Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Bali-mardana: The March 28th issue. Pañcadraviḍa: We're planning on showing these things to Argentine government also. Hṛdayānanda: These women leaders are not doing so well. Also, in South America there was a woman leader, and she also was put in jail. Prabhupāda: In the history of India there is no woman leader. Throughout Mahābhārata you'll find... Mahābhārata is the greater history, history of greater India. Mahā means greater, and bhārata. So "Greater Bhārata." That means this whole planet. So you won't find woman leader.

Room Conversation -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It doesn't matter. One...

Girirāja: We can take by palanquin.

Prabhupāda: No, one story I can go. Not now, but I can go. So you are trying so much for my comfort. I do not know whether I shall be able to repay you. Then I shall try my best. It is not possible to repay your debts, that so kind. So I can simply pray to Kṛṣṇa to give His blessings to you so that you may remain very steady in devotional service and preach this cult all over the world. Otherwise, I have no other means. Without your help I could not do anything. So you are very much kind. Kindly continue your cooperation. Paropakāra. This is the movement for paropakāra. I have got report from our other temples all over the world. They are doing very nice, is it not? Other temples outside India, they are doing very nice.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Girirāja: Yes, because that's the rate I established. We checked the market rate. Plus we want them to give six months of rent in advance, plus we want another benefit from them. I was recently in Hyderabad, and I saw an advertisement in the Hindu paper of Madras by a temple, which advertised the deity of the temple and said you can make a donation, and you can make a donation at any of the branches of the Indian bank, Bank of Madras. So one of the things I have been talking to these banks is when we open a Bombay temple we would like to try this approach here, advertise the Deities, have a small story about the Deities, and say anyone who wants to make a donation can make it at any branch of State Bank of India without any charge. And then the bank must agree to give us this service, collect the money and remit to us. So with the banks who have been coming I have been asking them...

Prabhupāda: They will deposit in Bombay.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, any branch. Like this is more attractive, because a branch may be close to their house. They just go in and say, "Take this ten rupees and give to Rādhā-Rāsavihārī temple in Juhu." So the bank... I spoke to three banks. They agreed. So this condition also they must agree, because this will be a very novel way of getting donations in Bombay area. They do this in the south.

Guest (1): (name of a temple)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. I cut that advertisement. I was very attracted when I saw it. Do you think it is a good idea?

Prabhupāda: Hm. Go to...

Devotees: Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Guest (1): Slowly about the program is that. I am trying to liquidate my assets in Allahabad because all this my dead father, dead mother, brother, all the properties are gone now. So when that is free, I'll take up this property here.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Bhavānanda: Our only concern is that in the traveling to get to a place where you may get some strength—may not—that you will lose strength in the traveling. Without a guarantee.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact.

Bhavānanda: You would like some orange, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Anything else?

Prabhupāda: A little salt.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Having Bhavānanda around is... (break)

Prabhupāda: (telling story?) You have taken my watch.

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So bring it now. (laughter) All right, I am going to hand over to police. Very good. He has smuggled it. And the police came. So he was going to arrest them. He was astonished. (break) (end)

Room Conversation about Harijanas -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Read that whole thing.

Bhakti-caru: "As the nation observes this week the death anniversary of Dr. Amritsar, it behooves our news research to face a challenge 'for the plight of this downtrodden community.' " (break) "The story of the vast quantity of harijana in this ancient and illustrious land is a miserable story of shame and sorrow. Harassment and humiliation, operation and separation, poverty and pity. The harijana problems is not merely a social or religious or economic or political one. It is a complex problem involving many factors. It is, however, the most baffling national problem, posing a great challenge to the leaders, rulers and people of India."

Prabhupāda: On the whole—you read this article—why not say that "We can lead you to the highest perfection of cultural, social, religion." It will be...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want us to write a letter to the editor?

Prabhupāda: Not editor. The person who is the leader. Means the harijana movement. They are feeling frustration. Now we can give them the light.

Room Conversation about Harijanas -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's a fact.

Prabhupāda: Sometimes I have said so many strong words. That is my habit. But he is still very humble and meek. I never expected that he would all, reply me.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes in Delhi I would go with him to some minister or something, and he would tell some story. I thought, "Why is he doing this story? He has no sense."

Prabhupāda: He is known to the ambassador, American ambassador.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. He took me there once. He knew him pretty well. But every time he would tell these stories.

Prabhupāda: Keath, Mr. Keath?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Keating, Kenneth Keating.

Prabhupāda: So he was very friendly with him. And he used to talk in his personal room. He made friends with him, his girl-friend. And she offered herself. "Please come in, in our park."

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And if you kill, then wholesale will be killed. No... There will be no candidate for learning. You have to kill everyone. That will be at the end, Kalki-avatāra, simply killing, bas, finish. They'll have no capacity to understand. Nowadays there are... They cannot understand this philosophy. But there are some, they are trying to understand. But at the end of Kali-yuga there will be no brain to understand or to hear all these things. Mleccha. That is mleccha. Mleccha means they are so unclean, unstandardized, they have no brain. That is Europe, America. That's ... Mleccha. Kill animals. Eat. Mleccha, they are, according to Vedic, untouchable. If you touch, then you infect.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Of course, Śrīla Prabhupāda, but you did not become infected by our association.

Prabhupāda: But the danger is there. Danger is there.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Therefore traditionally the sādhus will not go outside India. They won't cross the ocean.

Prabhupāda: And I took the risk. I told you the story, that I was keeping my foodstuff in the same Frigidaire that dog's flesh is here. What can I do? Circumstance. Therefore this rascal, Ginsberg, he used to say, "Swamiji, you are very conservative." And "You do not know what is conservative. I'm so lenient. You do not know what is the meaning of conservative," I used to reply him. If I was conservative, then for a single moment I could not stay here. Immediately I would have gone.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But with yourself you were very conservative. With others you were very lenient, but in your own personal...

Prabhupāda: No, no, strictly I am not doing because I am keeping my foodstuff in the same Frigidaire where there is leftover and meat and dog's food is kept. (end)

Morning Talk -- April 18, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: People are so...

Prabhupāda: Everyone takes this Kṛṣṇa, Bhāgavata and Bhagavad-gītā is a story.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. They have no training.

Prabhupāda: Not they accept that this Kṛṣṇa, historical Kṛṣṇa, He is the person, Supreme Person. Ninety-nine point nine percent, they do not believe. "It is a fictitious story written about God, but not that this Kṛṣṇa is God." This is their opinion. Therefore Dr. Radhakrishnan: "No, no, not this Kṛṣṇa personally." Man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ—he is guiding: "Don't be attached to this Kṛṣṇa." Doesn't want. He was a very good gentleman, at heart devotee of God, but he could not understand Kṛṣṇa. He used to say to me... I was very intimate with, with him, with Dr. Radhakrishnan.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You were intimate with him?

Prabhupāda: Yes. I used to go whenever I liked.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I didn't know that.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. I had many letters, correspondence with him. He promised that "After retirement I shall join." Yes.

Morning Conversation -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: That is Muhammadans' theory. They can do merciless thing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We were discussing that this paper that it came out in is a small, very small paper. Probably... The question is whether any newspaper... I mean, why such a small newspaper carried the story and not a big newspaper? That is the real question. I mean, obviously the man must have gone to many places. But why no one would touch that story? That is the next thing. Because they're all afraid. They're also implicated. They all reported. That means they were also implicated.

Prabhupāda: I don't think we shall add in our...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we concluded that... The thing is that it's clear... This man will probably get no... No one will listen to him. Everybody will think that it is raving of a madman. Just like whenever the reporters... I remember the Los Angeles...

Prabhupāda: He has given very good reasoning.

Morning Conversation -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (indistinct) Lie.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. Why no other newspaper carried the story?

Prabhupāda: It is only because I disbelieved, he disagreed. (referring to Puruṣottama?) He disagreed with me from that moment. He thought me foolish that I do not believe scientific research.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That was in London, I think. I remember.

Prabhupāda: He was a good boy, very good boy. Only for this reason he left. The whole institution he left. Where he is now?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have not heard from him. Last time he was staying with St. Paul.

Prabhupāda: Yes, the incarnation of St. Paul.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Good place.

Mr. Dwivedi: So this is a mile's, hardly, less than a mile's distance from our colony. And the river it is perennial river. We have to just cross it, and it gives good passage, particularly during this season. All seasons practically we go and go over the mountain and the temple. Then, on the roadside itself near our colony, there is a water temple. We call it Jagamandir(?). That is also a beautiful temple. It's like the (indistinct) type. And one story of that temple is always in the water. Even in the summer, when Your Holiness will go there, Your Holiness will find. And that is Kṛṣṇa's temple.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Mr. Dwivedi: And some of the photographs which were shown to me yesterday, I find the ditto in that temple, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa's temple.

Prabhupāda: Good place.

Mr. Dwivedi: This is the... I think I got a view of that temple.

Prabhupāda: Good engagement. So Kārttika, you are coming?

Kārttikeya: If you're not going to Kashmir, I'll come with you.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Very good temple. Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa?

Mr. Dwivedi: Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa temple. This is near our colony.

Kārttikeya: (Hindi) So there is the water all around.

Mr. Dwivedi: All around. And one story is in the water itself. That is not shown here also. But here one story is throughout in the water.

Kārttikeya: Is it an old temple or a new temple?

Mr. Dwivedi: Old temple.

Kārttikeya: Place is old, but the temple is new.

Mr. Dwivedi: No, not new. Temple is also about two hundred years old. And it has a beautiful story behind it. This was the (Hindi), this Pauri. So the cashier, he spent the whole treasury in building up this temple. And when the news went to the yajñirdatta(?)... Then they did not meet very so frequently as they started meeting now in our life. Every six months they tries to come over there. So he took a diamond, and the cashier, then he died. Yajñirdatta was very sorry. He gave, he granted a yajñir(?) for that family of the temple, about six thousand rupees every..., a yearly yajñir for this much amount, some land and yajñir and all that. So this is a public temple that way.

Prabhupāda: There is another story like that, Rāma Mandir. Rāma Mandir. In South India. What is that state?

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So we shall see that temple.

Mr. Dwivedi: But that is with the only Kṛṣṇa with cakra-sudarśana in His hand.

Prabhupāda: Vāsudeva Kṛṣṇa.

Mr. Dwivedi: Ha, Vāsudeva.

Prabhupāda: That Rāma Mandir, there is story that the treasurer, he spent money. (laughs)

Kārttikeya: Spent money.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And the nawab was informed that "He is spending money from your treasury." Then he: "How is that, you are spending without permission?" So he did not reply. "Yes, I have done." "Then you pay." So he was arrested, that "You misspent, misappropriated this money." Then at night two young men, that "You take the money from us and release him." So he said, "If I get money, I will release them." So when he woke up from dream, he saw the money and took up. But the boys were not there. Then he understood that he's a rāma-bhakta, rāma-darśana. So he immediately called him that "You are released, and you also take this money, and do your service to Rāmacandra, as you like." Amernaka. Amernaka(?) (Hindi).

Kārttikeya: Amadara?

Prabhupāda: Formerly India was very advanced in devotion.

Conversation: Animals' Expertise -- April 28, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prevention.

Prabhupāda: Prevention is better than cure. They are meant for that purpose. God has made. So instead of killing them, you protect your... But if you are in the service of the Lord, you are not responsible.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One great Vaiṣṇava was putting the... There were maggots eating in...

Prabhupāda: And that is also story given. Do not believe.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta there's mention of one great...

Girirāja: Vāsudeva. Vāsudeva.

Prabhupāda: Hm? Oh, yes.

Girirāja: There was a leper, and out of compassion for them...

Prabhupāda: Yes. He thought that "I am meant for suffering. Why shall I stop it?" That is exceptional case.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You cannot imitate that. (end)

Morning Conversation -- April 29, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Stryadhīśa.

Prabhupāda: Hm? Stryadhīśa. So after getting that shelter, I began to grow. Everything was very precarious condition-vagabond. I was selling some books. I thought that "This boy will be trained up" when I got that place. He invited me to "Come to my loft." It was very big loft. I was holding class, collecting ten dollars. Then he was not paying rent. He gave me the charge of paying rent. So Kṛṣṇa was giving by collecting. It was on the top. Still, people were coming. Great story. Never mind. Now we... From my part, whatever is possible. Now you take care. That is my request. Don't spoil it. Now it is up to you. My, this ailment... I can pass away at any moment. My health is not good. I am old man. It is not surprising. Now you GBC, young boys, all, American, expert, you have got all intelligence, resources, so don't spoil. Let the movements go forward more and more. Now you have got nice places, filled with devotees. Don't be anxious for me. That, Kṛṣṇa will take. And even if I go, where is the harm? Old man. I have given my ideas and direction in my books. People appreciate. I think from my side I have done everything. Is it not? Do you think or not?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, you have done everything.

Prabhupāda: Hm? So you are young men, American boys.

Conversation with Vedic Astronomer -- April 30, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So how he'll make diagram? He has no idea.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, he doesn't. He never thought about it. No one reads the Bhāgavatam as a scientific book, Śrīla Prabhupāda. That's the point. Except for Your Divine Grace, they are thinking it's story, "It is stories."

Prabhupāda: Yes, they do not believe.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. And therefore no one takes it seriously. Modern people don't take it seriously.

Prabhupāda: There was a Gosāi. He was reading Caitanya-caritāmṛta. So the description of the planetary system there is. He used to say to his audience, "Actually these things are not there. These are imaginary descriptions." He was such a fool. So the whole world has taken like that, "symbolic, imagination."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And he was lecturing on Caitanya-caritāmṛta. I think you mentioned that one of your Godbrothers once said to you, "You really believe that there is such a place, Kṛṣṇaloka, Vaikuṇṭhaloka?" He was himself...

Prabhupāda: Bon Mahārāja did not believe. No... Nobody ever thought of it.

Morning Conversation -- April 30, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, not Madhya Pradesh but especially between Jhansi and Gwalior, the Shivapuri, that is healthy place.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: You used to live in Jhansi before, huh?

Prabhupāda: Hm. Jhansi climate was nice.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Acharya Prabhakar tells me stories of his staying with you. He stayed with you for two years, he says.

Prabhupāda: He arranged for a very palatial building, yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. He says you would make him listen to your writings. Sometimes you would write all night, I think he told me. I spoke to him on the phone when I was at Vele(?). He sends you his daṇḍavats. He says he's ready to move in when the Vṛndāvana gurukula is ready. He says he'll move to Vṛndāvana and do whatever you want him to do in the gurukula.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mr. Mohatta, he also passed through Shivapuri. So he... When I told him there were some woods, some forests, he said, "Oh, then it must be Shivapuri." I said, "How did you know that?" He said, "Because of all the pla... That is the only place where there's even a little bit of forests." He said, "It is not much forest, but there is something." He said, "Otherwise, Madhya Pradesh is generally very dry, but the Shivapuri district..."

Prabhupāda: Hm, Shivapuri.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Yaśomatīnandana: Siṣicuḥ sma vrajān (SB 1.10.4).

Prabhupāda: Ah. Let them remain happy and automatically... Just like in our Philadelphia. Oh, such a big... Giving him thousand pounds. Yes, we are doing this, fatty. Cans of milk. Even the cat is happy. The dog is happy. There is no fight. Cat is so happy, stroking on the back of the cows. Similarly, the dog is... There is no "Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" barking. I have seen it. Only through the medium of milk. These are not stories. I have seen. And who is Satyabhāmā's husband?

Bhavānanda: Oh, Parama... What's his name? (break)

Prabhupāda: ...make the whole land, people, very happy. You show this example all over the world, this example, in America. Don't spoil money. Show by example. Enough science and enough motorcar, that's all. No more wanted. This is wanted. Kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). Bring water from the sky. Keep always land moist and green. This is wanted. It is not my desire. It is Kṛṣṇa's. Kṛṣṇa says in Bhagavad-gītā, annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Here Vyāsadeva says, kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). These rascals, they do not know. They do not consult śāstra, therefore manufacture. In Chandigarh so much land lying vacant. Thirty years already passed. And they are developing the cities. And another four hundred years will be required. The land is lying vacant. And they are making two governors, five commissioners, six ministers and..., drawing fat salary. This is government. Government means to draw fat salary at the expense of poor people. Dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. Rājanya dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. Just like the rogues and thieves, they by force take money from us, these rascal, under some law, they'll take, this government. They will live at any cost. Never mind forty rupees (indistinct) a week. They have got cheap money. Print note and give him forty rupees. What is that? "You want forty rupees? Eh, take forty rupees." This is artificial inflation. They have got power to print notes. "Pay gold forty rupees." "No, that is illegal. Take paper." Means a cheating business from the government. He's giving him piece of paper, and the rascal is thinking, "I am making one thousand rupees." Formerly, in our childhood, we have seen a currency. They will offer, "What you want, gold, silver, or currency?" These three things were offered. If you want gold coins, take gold coins. If you want silver coins, take silver. And if you want currency, you take. We have seen it.

Srila Prabhupada Vigil -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Rāmeśvara: In America.

Prabhupāda: What does he do?

Rāmeśvara: Some karmī job to get money.

Prabhupāda: Just see. (laughs) And he's asking my blessings for a guru. He's a fanatic. (break) ...know that story, punar muṣako bhava. (laughter)

Jayatīrtha: Yes. That's a very suitable story for this case.

Prabhupāda: "Again become a mouse." That's all. "I made you tiger. Now you want to eat me? All right, you become again a mouse." (break) That is called dṛḍha-vrata, firm determination. Hm. Go on. (break) Doesn't create any... That is bhakti life. Yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Bas. So where is the difficulty? The things are already there. I have to repeat it only. Why shall I create, make hodgepodge everything? But that they do not know. Bhaktivedanta has no difficulty. The things are already there. Simply you have to present them as it is. That's all. You become Vaiṣṇava. Where is the difficulty? And as soon as you change, become over-intelligent, spoiled, everything spoiled. That is the... (recording grows very faint, then inaudible) (break) What arrangement is...? What arrangement is made? (break) And if they do not repeat, they fell down(?). You have to bring. You cannot satisfy everyone. That is not possible. Here Nārada Muni is blaming Vyāsadeva, "You have not repeated." And here is a scholar, and he has repeated. The actual position is repetition. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). That is the position. So we shall go on doing that.

Discussions -- June 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: There is a word, devāyatana,(?) Indian. Devāyatana property can never be mortgaged, sold or risked. (background whispering)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In America... Just like in New York there's a twelve-thirteen-story building. The temple only occupies the ground floor. They can't mortgage... Sometimes if they want to get other properties, they may want to use the asset of that building. If they have this clause, they won't be able to.

Rāmeśvara: Also sometimes we have got one property in America, and you have allowed us to sell it. Just like in Miami we had to sell the property in Coconut Grove and we bought that big farm.

Prabhupāda: No, with the consent of the GBC...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Consent of the GBC.

Prabhupāda: Like that.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I made my headquarter in Los Angeles. And they made a conspiracy against me. That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I never understood that.

Prabhupāda: Otherwise I made it my own story(?). (pause)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, whatever the reason, by your coming here it was wonderful also.

Prabhupāda: That means Kṛṣṇa desired. Otherwise I had no plan to come back here.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your business was in the West. Still it is, you said. Still, whatever we're doing here...

Prabhupāda: Therefore I took this permanent residency.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not intention but... Do you regret having come back to India?

Prabhupāda: No, it is well. My plan was like that, but Kṛṣṇa's plan was different. When I was coming back, I was speaking to Dvārakādhīśa, "I do not know. I came here to live. Why You are driving me away?" While leaving Los Angeles I was not happy.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Woman? Woman?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, no, Amrtabal Singh is the name. And he told me he didn't have time to talk with me because, he said, he had a meeting. So I told him that I just came to see the director, but since the director is not there I just want to let him know that "We want to hold a conference on life sciences and Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so if you are interested, I'd like to invite you because you're a leading scientist. And the Bose Institute is quite well known. So I'd like you to participate in our conference." Then he asked me, "What is that conference?" Then I started describing about the way modern science is going at this time. "Science says that everything is molecules. So what do you think as a scientist? Now, the way we communicate... I talk with you, and you talk to me, but the way we communicate, science say that these are just chemical reactions. You talk because of some chemical reactions. And so what do you think about this modern philosophy?" Then I started talking about the very unsatisfactory explanations of these ideas according to modern science and trying to introduce concept of Bhagavad-gītā, that "Life is nonchemical and nonphysical. It is spiritual. When we study physics, chemistry and mathematics, we simply study matter, but actually we don't really study life. But modern science says that life is nothing but chemicals. So we are determined to show to the people, especially to the leading scientists, that the knowledge that we have is all wrong. There must be something beyond that we just know so far." Then he started taking great interest, and I talked with him for a little more than an hour. He... And even he was thinking of postponing that... He had a meeting, and he telephoned. He said... He said he started discussing with me, and the talk became so interesting that he postponed the meeting. He even said. (laughs) So he was very nice, actually. He said that he agrees that in the Western..., especially in the United States, the leading scientists are taking too much for granted. They're saying too much, very unscientific, saying that life started from molecules. He said it's all unknown. These are all stories. So he said that it's a little too much. Science doesn't know these things. He agreed to that point very clearly. I said, "Do you think scientists like...? It is your responsibility, especially from this land, to show that the concept..."

Prabhupāda: We know.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Cheating.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I saw a newsletter issued by the International Society for the Study of the Origin of Life from Chemicals. They just had an international meeting in Japan this April, and I am a member, so they send me a newsletter, national newsletter. They have interesting schemes. The next meeting is in 1981 in Israel. I was actually thinking of presenting a paper in the last meeting, but time was little short for us. So we are thinking of presenting papers in that international meeting. It is a whole scientific community all over. So I thought it will be very interesting to present our viewpoint and make it very strong. We are very small in number, but our thoughts will be very challenging to all of them, especially mathematics and physical chemistry together. They also have a journal, the Journal of the Origin of Life, and there the write only about chemicals. Everything is just like a story. So we make it a fairy tale, the molecular fairy tale, and it's very appropriate. All are stories.

Prabhupāda: They invented stories for going to the moon planet.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yeah, they're making stories about everything.

Prabhupāda: A small toy sputnik, background, a big picture, and photograph.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: "There was..."?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: "There was a blank. There was a void." Everything was blank. And the way he started, the foreword was given by a scientist called Crick, Watson and Crick. Crick is in Cambridge, and Watson is in Harvard. So these two men were the men who discovered the structure of the DNA molecule that they thought that may be life. And they got Nobel Prize for this. And Crick was writing in the first page, saying that "This is the way we have understood about life." But "Everything was started like that, from blank and a blank, blank. And somehow all these molecules get together and then it became Johnny later on." (laughter) And we can make a nice story out of it.

Prabhupāda: No.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They make such a story that sometime they make the little children believe and thought that it might be the fact.

Prabhupāda: Fairy tales.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, so we titled, called, Chemical Evolution-A Molecular Fairy Tale.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes.

Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- June 21, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And I requested him whether he's interested in this type of conference. And I also started talking about evolution. So he told me that it's already proven that life comes from chemicals. Then I told him that "How do you know?" He told me what he had understood, but he couldn't tell anything. And I told him that "These are all stories. So you think that whatever knowledge is coming from the West, the Western countries, the United States, is the ultimate. It's written in books, and you never think what is written in the Gītā, in Bhagavad-gītā." He's also a brāhmaṇa. He's a tri-vedi. So I started telling that "These are all fairy tale stories, and we'd like to prove that whatever science knows so far, it's all wrong." So he was very interested in what I said, (Prabhupāda chuckles) and he said that he's very interested to take part in our conference, and he's coming. So they can bring many scientists from Agra to participate in the conference. So...

Girirāja: Is there many of them?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. And I also started telling him little bit about what the significance of this conference will be. (describes own preaching activities and plans for scientific conference for some time) And I requested him to participate in this program and... It will be very meaningful as a normal...

Prabhupāda: So you are listing all the men who will participate?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. I'm going to have all the... I'm leaving tomorrow in the morning, and I'm leaving for Bombay. From there I'm leaving to the States on Friday morning.

Prabhupāda: I want to give you the best place in Bombay.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Mahārāja told me that.

Prabhupāda: Because you have to invite so many respectable, big scientists.

Conversation -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That.

Mr. Myer: That will be very big event.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: For Them you will do anything. 'Cause actually They have done everything for you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You asked Them to stand there despite...

Mr. Myer: Yati Prabhu was telling me the entire story, how Śrīla Prabhupāda moved into his..., when it was not even completed, and all the devotees had to...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, recently?

Mr. Myer: Yes, I learned about some time back. I was watching big picture and all. There are also...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mrs. Singol, she wrote a letter.

Prabhupāda: Doctor.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Dr. Singol's wife.

Prabhupāda: His wife?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She wrote you a letter, very feelingful letter.

Prabhupāda: Hm hm. She is very attached.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Want to hear the letter?

Prabhupāda: I'll wait.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- July 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee (2): I don't know if you know, but there is a (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: I know that. I have given receipt. There is no... That is all right. Work will go on like that... Now that belongs to somebody else. Anyway, the things are there. There will be no difficulty. But the work is being done like that. He does not know. He does not know. What is called? There is a story. A man went to a shopkeeper. He was shaven-headed. You know that?

Trivikrama: Shaven-head.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Shaven-head.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You know that story?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Devotee (2): No.

Prabhupāda: So he went to purchase something from a grocer. The grocer asked him, "Why you are shaven-headed?" "Oh, such person has..., is now dead."

Bhu-mandala Diagram Discussion -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: According to the modern thinkers, any further back than about three or four thousand years ago, everyone was living in the caves. So they think that all of our books are mythology, some dreamt-up stories by some people...

Prabhupāda: So how they are writing of millions of years ago?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is all according to their mythology.

Prabhupāda: No, they are suggesting.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And, of course, they say that there were no humans around, just dust and water and earth. There were no brains at that time.

Prabhupāda: Only brains are developed now.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, especially now, this century. Before this, everybody was unintelligent, and now man's brain is developing to a higher and higher degree, and he can finally understand what is what. I don't think that... Your descriptions, especially this planetarium, will at first meet with a lot of heavy reaction. It is not going to be embraced immediately very favorably. It means that everyone who calls himself a Ph.D. is a fool, that students will laugh at their teachers, if what we say is correct. There will be chaos in educational circles. (Prabhupāda chuckles)

Prabhupāda: All right.

Devotees: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)

Discussion about Bhu-mandala -- July 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's... We're trying to impose some preconceived idea onto this. As soon as that happens, this knowledge is blocked. Because the whole attitude shouldn't be like that. One should come out of service and devotion, not with some mental, materialistic speculations.

Prabhupāda: Did you know that story, the Nārada was going to Vaikuṇṭha? Nārada came back and replied to a cobbler... Cobbler asked him what Nārāyaṇa is doing. "He has taken one elephant and He's drawing through the hole of a needle like this and again taking." The learned brāhmaṇa, he began to laugh. "These are all stories." And the cobbler began to cry, "Oh, Nārāyaṇa, Kṛṣṇa, can..." Nārada inquired, "How do you believe that elephant is being drawn through the hole of needle?" "No, why not? I'm daily seeing by sitting under this banyan tree, and within a fruit there are thousands of seeds. And each seed contains the big tree." Can the scientists make such small seed contain a big banyan tree? So it is acintya. That's a fact. (break) ...thing is inconceivable. And these rascals want to bring them as conceivable. He's conditioned, and he's trying to bring inconceivable thing to his conception. Useless, futile attempt. How the scientist will answer? We take a fruit. There are hundreds of seeds, and each seed contains a big tree. How you can explain? Is it not inconceivable?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Room Conversation with Vrindavan De -- July 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Who can live in such house? Royal. Royal palace. We have 102 royal palaces. More than that. So even from economic point of view nobody is happier than us. Nobody is happier.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That New York building cost over one million dollars.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you go I shall give you chance to see how my devotees are living happy in big, big houses. Big, big house. Do you think to possess a twelve-story house in New York is joke?

Vrindavan De: Even I cannot think of.

Prabhupāda: Is joke? We have got. In Detroit we have got a house which was constructed at the cost of six million dollars, fifty years ago. What is the price six million dollars?

Vrindavan De: Sixty lakhs.

Indian: Five lakhs forty thousand.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no, no. Six million means five crores.

Indian: Five crores for...

Vrindavan De: No. One million is ten lakhs.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Six crores.

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Restrict, that instead of myself, he has to restrict: "Do this way."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Including go to the court. This boy writes further. He says, "They claimed I was brainwashed by Śrīla Prabhupāda and the devotees, and they were here to get me to think for myself again. They kept me up for ten hours at a time for so-called deprogramming, just blaspheming Śrīla Prabhupāda and Kṛṣṇa and telling lie after lie. Finally they let me go to sleep, and in the morning it was time for more blaspheming and lies. But by Kṛṣṇa's mercy I was able to escape out the front door of the house," he says, "which was unguarded. I ran down my block barefoot and was able to get to my friend's house. I told him the story. He gave me enough money to get to a nearby temple. There I served Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa and had the association of my Godbrothers, who are most dear to me. There I spent the happiest time of my life as a devotee with the association of the Brajabāsīs. Being a devotee of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, there's nothing like it-singing, dancing, taking prasādam, being happy and free from anxiety all the time. It is just a blissful life. All Kṛṣṇa wants is for us to be happy with Him. I called my parents and told them that I was doing fine and that I had even gained seven pounds in weight. They had the police looking for me all over the place in only a minute, and they finally showed up. Mahārāja felt it was best that I go back and clear things up with my parents and with their consent come back. But they refused to let me go, and instead put me through a one-month deprogramming session. This time I was unable to escape. But now Kṛṣṇa has pulled me through, even though I'm forced to live with my parents. They are nice people, but they just don't understand about transcendental life. But they will come around sooner or later. I cannot keep any Vedic literature at home, so a friend lets me keep it at his house, and I read it during my school lunchtime. I am not able to keep japa beads to chant on, so I chant Hare Kṛṣṇa on rosary beads. I'm sixteen years old now and going to school, where I am taught little of any value. It is sometimes difficult to remain Kṛṣṇa conscious out in the material world, but I pray to Lord Caitanya and Lord Nityānanda to help me become strong and desire to serve Kṛṣṇa more and more every day. I will be able to join the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement in person in two years, which isn't very long considering that I have waited to serve Kṛṣṇa for millions of lifetimes. If you have the opportunity to serve Kṛṣṇa, don't waste it, because you may wind up in my shoes in your next life. Hare Kṛṣṇa." This is...

Prabhupāda: If one man is turned by this, the movement is successful. So there is good prospect, good hope. And you all combine together, try. Push this movement more and more.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A lot of encouraging... I mean, everywhere there's victory.

Prabhupāda: Now I am assured. If I die or live, this movement will go on. Is it not?

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Everyone is recommending. All libraries.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: " '...should have on its shelf these works.' " Next is a letter from Trinvak Govind Meinpark(?), Professor of Sanskrit and Head of the Department at the University of Bombay. " 'His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, the renowned Vedic scholar and founder-ācārya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, has translated into English the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Caitanya-caritāmṛta, the Encyclopedia of Vedic Culture.' " Now it's getting to be known like that. " 'The special feature of this publication is to be seen in the explanatory notes, added with a view to summing up the purport of the passages rendered. The Bhāgavatam is a classic of the Kṛṣṇa cult, and in the manner of sweetness, sincerity of devotion and purity of emotion, it surpasses all other texts of the Purāṇas, as well as other texts of the Bhāgavata religion. As such it is no wonder that it has become a veritable scripture of the devotees of this cult. Again, of all incarnations of the highest Lord, the Kṛṣṇa incarnation has a peculiar fascination for the Indian mind and has all along exercised a great influence over the Hindu religious mind—in fact, of all minds that have God consciousness. The Lord's grace, His interest and deep concern for His devotees and even for sinners, His great love for all beings without any distinction of order, caste, creed, and sex, His ever-willingness to look after all ardent devotees, His extreme sweetness, all these qualities have made Him the most easily lovable of the divine manifestations. The text of the Bhāgavata, scenes of the whole life of the Lord from His childhood to His withdrawal from the world, yet the philosophical aspects receive greater emphasis than the historical ones.' " Not simply that it's some stories, but full of philosophy. " 'Along with the Bhāgavata, the Caitanya-caritāmṛta has received as much care and attention in the translation by Śrīla Prabhupāda. The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust is presenting these two sets as an encyclopedia of our culture, and our university has made a standing order of these volumes, which our students delight in reading. There is no doubt that the Swamiji has immensely obliged all lovers of our Vedic culture and devotees of Kṛṣṇa cult by this simple, clear, faithful, and illuminating rendering into English. The notes bring out beautifully the subtle implications of the Sanskrit and Bengali text. The lay reader is thus greatly helped in appreciating and understanding the brilliant simplicity of the path of bhakti.' "

Prabhupāda: What he is?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He is the Head of the Department of Sanskrit at the Bombay University.

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're tremendous. Here is a letter from the member of the advisory board of the Sāhitya Academy. You know what that is Śrīla Prabhupāda? Sāhitya Academy? I think it's a literary academy. " 'No earthly writer today can match the vast outpouring of pure verse which our ancient sages, particularly the great Vyāsadeva, have left to the world. Motivated by a deep desire to give moral, cultural, and educational upliftment to all people irrespective of caste, creed or nationality, they have taught us the higher values of life through the medium of historical narrations, biographies, the lives of great men, and simple instructive stories. The unlimited wealth which they have left behind in the Devanāgarī script is sheer ecstasy to read for the poet, the student and the common man. Since dialectic differences began to splinter men into smaller groups, the original language, Sanskrit, was gradually forgotten. It is special grace upon the denizens of this world today that His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda has done such a tremendous job of meticulously translating into so many languages the sacred books of our heritage. Swamiji's most noteworthy achievement is his Encyclopedia of Vedic Education, the multivolume presentation of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and Caitanya-caritāmṛta.' " One thing, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that this calling it the Encyclopedia of Vedic..., as he's doing...Everyone has always known the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, but fewer people knew Caitanya-caritāmṛta, and now these two are lumped together as equally very important works.

Prabhupāda: Complete.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's very much increased...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh. They held?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah. They held a press conference in Bombay. It says... Here it is. "The Press release, which has been... We are issuing the correct story at the request of the journals to publish the correction."

Prabhupāda: Who said?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gopāla. And Rāmeśvara is doing it from the international side. It came in all the papers. Imagine, they're getting calls from Rāmeśvara in Los Angeles, Jayatīrtha in Africa. Jayatīrtha visited Africa recently. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...they would have done. The first news was that "The founder was not there." Otherwise the police would have charged me that "He has given order."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Order to fire.

Prabhupāda: "Fire it." That we shall see by and by. Police can do that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa would never let that happen to you, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: No, no, that's all right, but that very word, that "The founder was not there," that means they were expecting that if I would have been there, they would have charged that "He is in the spot, and he has ordered."

Room Conversation Mayapura attack -- July 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And telephone was cut.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. We didn't cut our own telephone lines. Whoever cut it should be taken to court. Criminal. Destroying government property. There's no mention here of a cow, that we beat any cow. None of these things are mentioned.

Prabhupāda: So many stories fabricated.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Fifty men stealing our crops. I've seen in Māyāpur. When men steal crops, three, four men go. I never saw fifty men. Highly organized. They must have paid them to do this.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And another thing that they probably told them is that we're trying to get their land by acquisition. "But we won't let them ever get your land. Now you do this. Drive them out of here. We won't arrest you."

Prabhupāda: That is a different issue.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They may have used that, though.

Prabhupāda: The real issue is the Communists do not want any religious movement in Bengal. That is real issue.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: America, enough places.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They have paying a few months' rent, but not pagri.

Prabhupāda: There are so many houses. Why they should pay?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. That's true.

Prabhupāda: Multi-story building. Why people should pay? Now Bombay have got many multi-story building; therefore that demand is reduced. But still, you have to pay in important place, pagri or underhand. What is called?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bribe.

Prabhupāda: Bribe is very bad word. "Under table." (chuckling)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Under the table. Unofficial.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Mean I am paying on the table hundred rupees and under table two hundred rupees.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I think you know everything spiritual and material.

Prabhupāda: Hm? So my fear is that after training our men so much, if he's lost, that's a great loss. Then future of society becomes very hopeless.

Room Conversation -- July 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Very pet child.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Pet child.

Prabhupāda: Whatever I shall want, they will supply. I was not a unwanted child for killing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You told the story that one time, because you were accustomed to liking purīs more than capātīs and your mother didn't supply you, you ran upstairs and refused to eat. Then your father came home and became very sorry. And he made your mother cook immediately purīs for you. Was that one of the sto...?

Prabhupāda: Hm. The name was kept Abhaya. Abhaya means "There is no fear of death of this child." In my maternal uncle's house, because I was born on the Nandotsava, they kept my name Nandadulal.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Nandadulal? Why were you called like that?

Prabhupāda: Because I was born in Nandotsava day.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Did they used to call you Nandadulal?

Prabhupāda: Hm. In my maternal uncle's house I was called Nandadulal. Nandu.

Room Conversation -- July 27-28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He said he wanted to meet Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: No, no. Don't go to him. This Māyāpur incident is a handling of the Communists.

Yaśomatīnandana: Now there is Communist government there.

Prabhupāda: Please try to... Just try to understand. There is a story that a thief entered in a room, and the proprietor, he was in the other room. As soon as there was some sound, he inquired, "Who is there in that room?" The man said, "No, no, I am not stealing." You see? That means he is thief. So this voting board raised the question, "How they are getting visa?" In the Parliament also they are raising the same question. That means it is Communist manipulation, the Māyāpur affair. They put forward some Muhammadans because there are many Muhammadan Communist also. They wanted to give a communal color. But the whole thing is Communist plan. And their aim is to wipe out any religious movement. That is their open declaration in other Communist...

Yaśomatīnandana: This prabhu, Rāma-Krishna Prabhu, is very respectable gentleman. So if I take him to see the Home Minister...

Prabhupāda: Nice.

Room Conversations Bangladesh Preaching/Prabhavisnu Articles by Hamsaduta -- August 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Big, big words, that's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "On the other hand, books like Arabian Nights, Gulliver's Travels..."

Prabhupāda: Whose Arabian Night?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Fairy stories like the Mahā..."

Prabhupāda: Who's talking Arabian Night?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says, "Fairy stories like Mahābhārata, Rāmāyaṇa, Bible, Koran, Pilgrim's..." Oh, this man... "Pilgrim's Progress, Jataka stories, astrology, palmistry, numerology, theology, demonology, etc., are the products of subjective thinkers. While the former are factual, the latter are all fictitious. Some of the marvelous achievements of mankind in recent years are the liberation of atomic energy, radio telescopy..."

Prabhupāda: What is value of atomic energy? A man is dying; you have accelerated his death. That's all.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Landing on the moon..."

Prabhupāda: Have you invented something that man will not die? Then it is approved. They are dying. You have given facilities to die earlier. That is atomic energy. There is no energy which can save him—"No more death." Is that improvement? By nature one dies natural death, and you have accelerated-many millions of people can be killed by this atomic weapon. So what is your achievement? Save millions of people.

Room Conversation -- October 12, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you drop, they get opportunity.

Jayapatākā: Yes. No, we have no intention to drop the charges. That will not clear our name. The day I returned, the Secretary General... Rather, the General Secretary of the State Congress Party, Mr. K. K. Sukla, he just happened to visit our mandira, and he heard the whole story, and he said that he'll give whatever support he can, and if they get back into any power, then he'll see that our programs get full assistance. Then our lawyer told us that he has been talking to some ministers in the present Communist government, and they're saying that they're willing to support our movement if we do some works that are beneficial for the people. They're not saying that we're not doing any so far, but any other things like the bridges or the schemes we have, they're willing to give us support for those. By your mercy everything is gradually changing around. The tantric astrologer there, he gave some predictions.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Jayapatākā: Well, about two weeks ago he had told Bhavānanda that he would be called to Vṛndāvana and that all the GBCs or leaders of the Society would be called to Vṛndāvana to see Your Divine Grace. He said that actually Your Divine Grace is a pure Vaiṣṇava and like type of avatāra, empowered person of Kṛṣṇa, so that he shouldn't really speak anything, because he's simply a tantric type of astrologer, 'cause you are able to change your fate or change according to your desire. He predicted that all the GBCs would be coming. He said that up till the November 28th is the last date of the sickness, and that after that, then your sickness... You would take a month or so to fully recuperate, and then from January on you'd be quite healthy again, and for at least seven years you wouldn't have any trouble with health. The big day... He put the biggest day at November 28th.

Hari-śauri: The worst day?

Jayapatākā: That's the end of the bad period.

Hari-śauri: I'll get the other chart. This man in Delhi did another chart.

Prabhupāda: Why November 28th?

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Purī Mahārāja: (laughs) Dr. Kovoor. He cannot be called as "doctor." How could he be a doctor?

Haṁsadūta: Quack. Quack doctor.

Prabhupāda: There is a story. A bridegroom was selected. So, the other party, bride's party, they inquired how the bridegroom was quite qualified. So they said, "He's a doctor." Then they inquired, "What kind of doctor? Doctor of philosophy, doctor of medicine or...?"

Purī Mahārāja: Doctor which way?

Prabhupāda: So he said, "No, no, no. He's not all these nonsense. He's a big doctor." "What is that?" "Conductor." (laughter)

Purī Mahārāja: He's a big superior doctor, con-doctor. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) ...con-ductor. Bhakti-caru?

Brahmānanda: Just calling him. He's in the kitchen, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (pause)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here he is, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) (break)

Purī Mahārāja: (Bengali)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Maybe Purī Mahārāja would like to see the pictures from the Los Angeles Ratha-yātrā. Remember those pictures I showed you in London?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So I said, "Don't delay. So many doctors..." And next morning he came back and said, "The doctor said, 'You are all right, you can go.' "

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He was just drunk from liquor.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I had a similar story. It is my own personal experience. In 1974 I came here in India. I got malaria in the United States in summer 1975. Then temperature was very high. I went to the Baptist Hospital in Atlanta. They thought it was a virus, viral infection. They couldn't diagnose. Then they gave some medicine, and then I went. But it started again the following day, and I went to another doctor. He could not diagnose. So they gave me glucose injection, a big bottle, thinking it was a strange viral infection. So about six, seven doctors, they couldn't diagnose for three-four days. Then one day there was a doctor who came from Vietnam, he had some experience in tropical disease. So he thought it might be malarial fever. Then, after that, I was surrounded by many doctors thinking that it was a strange disease before, but they diagnosed... But it was not right. They did all the wrong medicine, thinking it was a viral infection.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 22, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I told you the story of my father recently, Śrīla Prabhupāda, how he had the arthritis in the hip, so they gave him a new hip. Then it moved to the other hip, and they replaced the other hip. So after eight weeks he was in bed in the hospital, and then they said, "Now you can try to walk." So they gave him crutches, and they stood him up, and after eight weeks of all these operations, as soon as he stood up he had a heart attack and died right on the spot. They were very sure. "Now you're all right," they told him.

Devotee: My great-uncle, he had tonsillitis, so he went to a friend who was a doctor, and the friend said, "That's all right. We'll operate, and I will not charge you anything." So he went into the hospital, and in the operation the doctor dropped a scalpel, and after that—he was very big, and he became very small, never could eat again. (break)

Prabhupāda: No protection.

Bhavānanda: There's no protection. (break)

Bhakti-caru: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: So? Bhāgavata?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhāgavatam translation? I'll arrange now? (break)

Trivikrama: ...cannot do its plundering business.

Prabhupāda: The sun cannot take life during the Bhāgavata discussion. The more you discuss Bhāgavatam, you keep your life. Who is standing here?

Tripurāri: Now Bharadvāja is chanting.

Room Conversation -- November 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, it's arranged by the head of the chemistry department. There's one professor called Gupta. He's very enthusiastic. And there are also several professors who came to our conference. All of them are arranging together. There's one Dr. Sukla, also there's one Dr. Sharma. Three, four of them are organizing the lecture. They have... Most of the people I found there, they have great respect for ISKCON, and they appreciate Śrīla Prabhupāda's activities so much. I also requested them it is their responsibility to actually try to spread the genuine knowledge as a real science, scientists.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Stories and fables will not convince them.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I want to briefly outline tomorrow the comparative presentation of two aspects of modern science versus the Bhagavad-gītā, the varying concepts of life.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We'll outline, saying that modern science thinks that we are children of chance and chemical reactions. But the Gītā says we are children of Kṛṣṇa. We are coming from the supremely conscious person.

Prabhupāda: Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4).

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So these two views, completely opposed. And I'm going to propose that...

Prabhupāda: No, it is a common sense. There is mother and there is children. Where is the father? They have no common sense even. Everything is produced... There are four kinds of living entities: udbhid-ja, sveda-ja, aṇḍa-ja and jarāyu-ja. They do not know anything. You are taking account of the jarāyu-ja, Not udbhid-ja, sveda-ja, aṇḍa-ja. They think the trees are coming automatically. That is their theory. That's not fact. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). Bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām (Bg 7.10). They do not consider this. A bug is coming from bed—they think it is automatically. No? The bīja-pradaḥ pitā... There are four kinds of births.

Room Conversation -- November 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Jayapatākā: Now planting is going on. Already many flowers and vegetables have been planted, and now the wheat fields are being plowed for planting. (break) ...if the big temple was thirty or thirty-five stories high, there would be any harm?

Prabhupāda: No harm. It is too much.

Jayapatākā: The present design is too much. Yes, the present design means that every month, six hundred thousand dollars would have to be given, and that's just too much.

Prabhupāda: Too much strain is not good.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Also the tendency is that when you make an estimate, you're always higher. You say thirty million dollars-it's very likely that it will go more.

Jayapatākā: Yeah, so then consider. (break) ...his birthday was a couple days ago, and then he invited us. So I sent two brahmacārīs to his āśrama for his birthday celebration.

Prabhupāda: His temple is completed?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: His nātha-mandira?

Jayapatākā: I didn't ask, actually. I think he's a year older than Śrīla Prabhupāda? Or two years older.

Prabhupāda: At least one year. I want to develop Gauḍa-maṇḍala. So in yoga-pīṭha they could not build even a darśana-maṇḍapa in fifty, sixty years. So we can construct a, what is called, hall.

Room Conversation -- November 7, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Do it. That is...

Jayapatākā: And the architect at Māyāpur, he said that the temple that's inside the big temple, that could be opened up to the public within three years by having just some type of false ceiling, and then the upper stories, work can go on. That means within three years people could start visiting the temple and using it, which will also be a big inspiration to the public. And then the upstairs and complete outside would be completed.

Prabhupāda: Do like that. That is very good idea. And different name, you can purchase.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity Trust?

Jayapatākā: Each of the..., like gośāla, handloom, these can be separately formed into societies, which would be easier for bookkeeping and management anyway, and each of those societies can purchase the land on which their handloom or gośāla, whatever is, they can purchase that land in that name.

Prabhupāda: Yes.