Prabhupāda: In Sanskrit it is called (pid?) vastra, backside robe. So under the backside robe He kept one pot of condensed milk by stealing. So the pūjārī woke up and opened the door and actually saw that there was a pot of condensed milk. The priests were very much astonished that "Oh, He has stolen (laughs) kṣīra for His devotee." So the order was that "You take this pot and give to Madhavendra Purī. He is sitting underneath a tree." So they, with the pot of the condensed milk, they began to cry, "Oh, who is that Madhavendra Purī? Oh, you are so fortunate. The Deity has stolen condensed milk for you. Take it." So he came forward and he was so pleased that Lord has stolen. "Because I desired to taste so Lord has stolen one pot." So in this way. From that day He became famous, the thief of condensed milk, Kṣīra-corā. Kṣīra means condensed milk and corā means thief. So the temple became famous as the temple of the thief of condensed milk.
Stolen (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1967 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Nityānanda was going with Lord Caitanya.
Hayagrīva: Narrated this to Lord Caitanya? Nityānanda narrated this to Lord Caitanya.
Prabhupāda: Yes, how the Deity was known as Kṣīra-corā-gopīnātha. The story was narrated that formerly He stole one...
Hayagrīva: Condensed milk.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Pot of condensed milk for His devotee.
Hayagrīva: Now what direct relationship does this have to Lord Caitanya?
Prabhupāda: Lord Caitanya also visited. Anyone in those days going to Jagannātha Purī from Bengal they had to pass that way. And on the way the Kṣīra-corā-gopīnātha temple is there. So everyone used to visit. So formerly Madhavendra Purī, he also visited, and for him the Deity stole the condensed milk. From that time He's known as Kṣīra-corā-gopīnātha. That story was narrated to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. So while sitting before the Deity, the story was narrated and Caitanya Mahāprabhu relished it that God is so kind that sometimes He steals for His devotee. This is the significance of this. So here the scene should be arranged that very nice temple, the Deity within, and Lord Caitanya entered while chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa and saw the worship, ārātrika. These things are to be shown in this scene. And a little story about Him, that's all.
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Typewriter? When?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Last night. Yesterday we just got a new sewing machine. A very expensive sewing machine and they stole it.
Prabhupāda: Sewing machine?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And a typewriter. It was taken from the house.
Revatīnandana: While we were at Griffith Park with kīrtana party they broke into our house and took it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So that quarter is not nice?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, it's not a nice quarter. So we'll take more precautions now.
Prabhupāda: Somebody must remain always. That is the only precaution.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
The Bhāgavata says therefore, even the great personalities like Brahmā, they are also bewildered to understand the personality. He, Brahmā also heard that at Vṛndāvana Kṛṣṇa has appeared and He is acting as a cowherd boy. He was also astonished. "Oh, my Lord? He has become a cowherd boy?" So he came to check. He, I mean to say, took away all the cowherd boys and cows and everything. And after a few seconds he came, he said Kṛṣṇa is playing in the same way. And although the, I mean, stolen cowherd boys and cows they, by the, I mean to say, energy of māyā, by influence of Brahmā, they were kept in a secret cave. They were sleeping. But Kṛṣṇa is playing. That means He has manifested again with the cowherd boys and cows. Then he was convinced, "Yes, He is my Lord." Then Brahma-stava is there. Ānanda cinmaya rasa pratibhāvitābhis tābhirya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ (Bs. 5.37). So Kṛṣṇa can expand in many, many thousand times. What Brahmā will do by stealing His... No, that is not possible. So Brahmā was also convinced. These things you'll find in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Brahma-vimohana. Even Brahmā is bewildered, what to speak of ordinary men like us. So Kṛṣṇa-līlā, to understand... There is no need of understanding. Simply you love Kṛṣṇa, then the whole business finished. Just like if you touch fire, if you understand it or not understand it, the warmness is there. Similarly, either you understand Kṛṣṇa or do not understand Kṛṣṇa, it doesn't matter. Simply if you love Kṛṣṇa, then your life is perfect. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Hm. So engage all yourselves in the service of Kṛṣṇa. It is very pleasing, and what is called encouraging, enlivening. After too much material enjoyment, the next stage is frustration. That stage is coming to your country. Therefore the boys are becoming hippies. After too much material enjoyment, the next stage is—that is natural-frustration. There is a good example in our country, one Mr. C.R. Das. He was a great leader, next to Gandhi, important political leader. So he was on the topmost of... He was lawyer, barrister. He was earning fifty thousand dollars monthly, very rich man. And he was making charity, and he was spending like thing (anything). He was drunkard number one, woman-hunter number one, and everything. Because he had money he could enjoy everything. But he was not happy. So one day he was sitting with his wife. Just like in the street, he was looking over. So his wife asked him—his name was Chittaranjan—"Chittaranjan, you are earning so much. You are spending. People are very much fond of you. You are a great leader. Why you always remain morose? What do you want to be? You have got now everything." So at that time one mendicant, a sannyāsī was passing. So Chittaranjan said, "I want to be like him. Then I will be happy. I don't want to enjoy. I want to beggar, to be beggar-like." You see? So that time is coming to your country. So these hippies, they are frustrating. They have given up everything. We can study their psychic movement. They are not satisfied. That is the main principle. That is natural, to accept adversity voluntarily, adversity. So this is frustration. But before reaching to that point of frustration, if you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you reach the real standard of happiness because everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. I shall give you another example. Suppose you have stolen something from somebody's house or some friends. You will not be happy, even possessing that thing, stolen property. But if someday you come to return that thing to that friend, you will be happy. What do you think, Hayagrīva?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then you will feel relieved. So therefore the real thing is that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. We are artificially enjoying the stolen property. Therefore if you go on enjoying like that, then this frustration will come. But before coming to that frustration, if we return this property to Kṛṣṇa, then we become happy. So best thing is to return everything to Kṛṣṇa. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And you will not be a loser. You will be gainer, just like Bali Mahārāja. Actually, if you think, everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Nothing belongs to you. This is māyā. Kṛṣṇa's property you are thinking, "mine." Is this land of American belongs to you actually? It is stolen property. You have stolen from the Red Indians or from Kṛṣṇa. Everyone is, not you, everyone. Somebody is claiming, "This much my property," somebody is claiming, "This much my property," but this much or that much, everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. It is stolen property. There is another example in Indian words, that hira cauri kiya abhicaurya, khira caurī kiyā abhicaura. Hira means diamond, and khīra means... What is that called? Cucumber, a small? So if somebody has stolen a cucumber from other's tree, so he is captured. And another man has stolen some diamond. He is also arrested. So from the police, both are thieves. If the man says, "Oh, what I have stolen? I have stolen a little cucumber. It is nothing, worth not even two cent or one cent. Why you are arresting me? He is thief. He has stolen a big diamond," no, in the eyes of law, he is also thief; he is also thief. Everyone is thief. Anyone who is not in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is thief. He'll not be happy. The best thing is to return whatever he has possessed: "Kṛṣṇa, it is Yours. Take." Finish business. Mānasa deha geha, yo kichu mora. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's song... Now, everything we possess in mind. Actually we don't possess. Suppose I am possessing all this. As soon as I go from this body, all possession will remain here. I'll not take anything. So I don't possess. But in mind I am thinking, "Oh, this is mine. This is mine. Where is another box? Why it is not coming?" And possessing in mind. If I leave this body, either the box here or in the Chicago or anywhere else, what is the difference? There is no difference. But because I am possessing in the mind, "Oh, that box is mine," so I am asking, "Whether it is Chicago or it is here, it is there? Why it is not coming?" So possession in the mind. Actually you don't possess.
Prabhupāda: That is another thing. It may be understood that he was Śeṣa, but that was the incident. And another incident is that when He was just walking... So it is the system that small children, they are decorated with ornaments here, here, bangle, so many ornaments, here. So one thief saw that... He stole away the child. So he was seeking some secret place, lonely place, so that he can rob of... In this way seeking, seeking, he traveled, and at last he came just in front of the house, and he dropped the child, that "Somebody may see that I have taken this child. Then I'll be beaten, I will be caught." So out of fear he fled away. And the guardians, ladies, they were very much anxious, "Who has taken the child? He was with ornaments." But they saw that the child is there. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu enjoyed for some time on the shoulder of the thief.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Indian woman (Mrs. Singh?): See these two little things standing here.
Malatī: It's Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's teacher's son was stolen, so He got him back. Guru-dakṣiṇā. The guru asked Kṛṣṇa, "I have lost my son. You can..." "Oh, yes." Guru-dakṣiṇā. That is how to (indistinct) satisfy the spiritual master.
Malatī: Sāndīpani Muni has...
Dr. Singh: Sāndīpani.
Malatī: He had sons?
Dr. Singh: Yes, because his wife...
Prabhupāda: That is the duty of the student, to give guru-dakṣiṇā. Whatever he wants, you must give.
Dr. Singh: Like Ekalavya gave his thumb.
Prabhupāda: Ah, yes.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: ...have no attachment. These are all nonsense. You cannot be (indistinct). A living being, to become desireless, how you can? I am living. I am not a dead body. Desire should be to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Attachment should be for Him. That's all. You have to change. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You have now attachment for sense gratification, desire for sense gratification. This has to be changed. Purification of desire, purification of attachment. Tat paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). Eyes, because it is diseased, you don't pluck out. This is nonsense. Cure the eyes of the disease, then you will see things right. The Māyāvādī philosophy is pluck out the eyes. Buddha philosophy is make it zero. That is also same thing, plucking out. Our philosophy is "No. Cure it." That is the difference. It is very simple. Which one is better? Just like a man is suffering from disease, fever, and doctor gives him medicine. He dies. Then the patient's guardian says, "Sir, he is dead now. You have given some medicine, he is dead." "That's all right, fever is gone. Fever is gone. Never mind he is dead." (laughter) These rascal philosophy statement is like that. Make zero. Make imperson. Then the difficulties of personality... Because they have got very bad experience of personality here. He had to become minister, he has become king and this and that, householder, all botheration. So make imperson. That's all. Negation. Personality is giving us trouble, so make imperson. God must be imperson, because as soon as we have person, there is trouble. They have got experience. (indistinct) as soon as they (indistinct), make it zero, then there is no pains and pleasure. The body, because Buddha philosophy does not give any idea of soul-bodily concept. The body is combination of matter, so dismantle this combination. Just like you have got a skyscraper building, so you have to pay tax. Break it, make it zero, so no tax. This is philosophy. Do you follow? You have got a very big building, so you have to pay tax. To save tax, break the building. No more taxes. No more pains and pleasure. No more anxiety. That is Buddha philosophy. That means these philosophers are called fools and rascal, less intelligent. Would you like this advice, that you have got a big building, just like in London there is a big building, and he has got a policy anyway that he does not allow any tenant. Largest building in London, to save tax. But his point is different. In Bengali there is adage that (Bengali), that a man's utensils were stolen by a thief, so he became very angry, that "A thief has taken all my utensil. All right, I shall not purchase utensil. I shall take food on the floor. I shall take food on the floor. No more utensils.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So this propensity will increase in this Kali-yuga.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)
Jayatīrtha: ...so many riots by the students at the university there that the shopkeepers in the local area are suing the State because the windows have been broken so many times and so much merchandise has been stolen by the students, they think the State should pay them back.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they must. The State must be responsible. What the State reply?
Jayatīrtha: Well, they're having to litigate in court over it. The State doesn't want to do it. So this university there is one of the most famous universities in the whole country. They spend so many millions of dollars to maintain it nicely. (break) (dog barking) ...changing their bodies in particular ways to make them look (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: When you do not take care of God, you must take care of dog. (laughter) (end)
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Then He must be proprietor. But we are falsely claiming that, "I am the proprietor." So how you can be in peace? Suppose you steal something, somebody's property, and falsely claim, "I am proprietor," you'll never be peace because it is not your thing. You have stolen it. So in this way, if you... philosophy can be studied that God is the Supreme Proprietor, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthāḥ (ISO 1). You can simply use what is given to you. You cannot claim other's property. Just like in animal life, animal life, they do not claim that "This is my country." The birds, they do not claim, but they live very peacefully. There are crows, there are spa... What is called? So many birds, they live anywhere, everywhere, but they do not claim, "Oh, this is my country. This is my place." They do not claim. Therefore they are free to move everywhere. So we have created a situation, Godless situation, therefore we are not in peace. So therefore, if you want peace, you must accept God, first of all. Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati (BG 5.29), this is the way of śānti. You cannot create your śānti in your own way. That is not possible. Just like the citizens, if they create their own way of śānti, there cannot be peace. If they abide by the orders of the government, by the laws of the government, there will be peace. This is crude example. Similarly, if you do not accept God in the center as the Supreme Proprietor and the Supreme Enjoyer and the Supreme Friend, then there is no peace. This is the problem, I have given in the... What is that? You read it?
Brahmānanda: Fire...?
Prabhupāda: Fire, disease and debt. How he instructed us. If you take loan from somewhere, interest compounded, one day it will become so big, unmanageable by you. Similarly fire may be very, a spark, but gradually it will so increase, oh, blazing fire. Disease also. Now there is little pain. Now, if it increases, it becomes tuberculosis. So therefore he has said: Never neglect these things: fire, or smaller or higher." They're always dangerous. (pause) There is a, in India, there is a proverb, hīrā and khīrā. Hīrā means diamond and khīrā means cucumber. It has no value, a few cents. And diamond is very valuable. But if some, somebody steals khīrā, he's also criminal, and one steals hīrā, he's also criminal. The punishment is equal. If he says: "I have stolen one khīrā. What is the value of it?" But by law, he's criminal. Never mind. (pause) (break) ...that he'll be happy in that way.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: They will say that: "I have taken from the nature."
Prabhupāda: Eh? Nature? That means you have taken from somebody. You have not created. You have stolen. Thief you are. And we say: "Yes, you have taken from the nature, but every property of nature, that belongs to Kṛṣṇa." Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Īśāvāsyam, it is all God's creation. And that is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Yes... If one does not perform yajña, he's a thief. Yajña means acknowledging that things have been taken from Kṛṣṇa. And we must satisfy Kṛṣṇa. "Kṛṣṇa, You have given so many things for our maintenance." This much acknowledgement Kṛṣṇa wants. That's all. Otherwise, what He can expect from you? What you are in His presence? Prasāda. Prasāda means acknowledging: "Kṛṣṇa, You have given us this foodstuff. So first of all You taste. Then we take." This much. Kṛṣṇa's not eating. He's not hungry. He's eating. Although He's not hungry, He can eat the whole world. Again produce it, as it is. That is Kṛṣṇa's power. Pūrṇāt pūrṇam, pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam evāvaśiṣyate (Iso Invocation). Kṛṣṇa is so perfect, that you take from Kṛṣṇa, whole Kṛṣṇa's energy, still the original energy's there. That is conservation of energy.
Paramahaṁsa: Even though the desire exists.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like a thief, he knows that "If I steal, I will be arrested. I will be put into jail." And he has seen that one thief, he has stolen, he is arrested. Still he commits theft. He knows everything. Why does he commit theft?
Paramahaṁsa: Why?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Paramahaṁsa: Ignorance?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda gives the example of the elephant.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Takes shower again and...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Hasti-snāna. Therefore, knowledge giving, that is the beginning of spiritual life. Kṛṣṇa gives Arjuna, knowledge giving, that "You are not this body." This is the beginning of knowledge. What is that knowledge, all over the world? Where is that university? This preliminary knowledge which Kṛṣṇa begins, Bhagavad-gītā, where is that university? Svarūpa Dāmodara, where is that chemical laboratory or university?
Śyāmasundara: That's right. If ...one boy who stole from us, I told the police. We told them exactly where he was, at the airport, Manchester. "He's going on flight such and such to America tomorrow." Plenty of time to apprehend him. They didn't do anything.
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Śyāmasundara: They came... Oh, they sent one inspector to take notes.
Prabhupāda: That's all.
Śyāmasundara: Many notes.
Prabhupāda: Useless, all... And taxation. No security and ninety-nine per cent taxation. Just see the fun. They are very much accurate to take taxation. And there is no guarantee of security. This is the position.
Prabhupāda: ...what kind of service we shall give? I can give you one example. I have seen it practically, that in Calcutta one neighbor, neighboring gentleman, he is (has) a daughter-in-law, he (she) was beating her young son. So I inquired, "Why that daughter-in-law...?" Because her father-in-law was of my age, little older. "So why daughter-in-law is punishing her son? What is the fault?" Naturally, young, a small child. So the report came that the, one of the child, one of the boy, was suffering from typhoid, fever, and another boy stole from the kitchen some parāṭā and gave him to eat. And when the mother came into knowledge, she was punishing, that "Why you have given this parāṭā?" Because in typhoid, no solid food is taken. So he cannot... But the suffering child was thinking that "Mother is not giving me food." So he requested his younger brother, "You give me some food." So he does not know. He has given the food. But the result is that he is being punished. So without knowing how to give service, sometimes we may be punished. What kind of service we shall give? (indistinct) example. So there are three kinds of services: goodness, passion, and ignorance.
Dr. Inger: Little bit.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Karmaṇā daiva netreṇa jantor deha upapattaye. A living entity is getting body by, as a result of his karma. And supervised by higher authority. Now when we speak of karma, or result of karma, there must be somebody who will judge. Just like one has stolen something, and the magistrate is judging the karma, the criminal activity, and he's putting him either in the prison house or getting him released. "No, he's not culprit." So as soon as we speak of karma, there must be somebody else to judge. And that judgement is said: daiva netreṇa. Daiva means divine supervision. So what is that divine supervision? Next question immediately comes. As soon as you accept karma, and the resultant action, and it is supervised by the divine authority, then next question will be: what is that divine authority? In this way, we have to go forward. So that sort of education is nowhere in the world.
Prabhupāda: How Kṛṣṇa is enjoying lugdu with His friends.
Professor: Yes.
Yogeśvara: He's taking lunch.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They're taking lunch, and Brahmā is playing trick.
Yogeśvara: You know the story?
Professor: Of what?
Yogeśvara: Lord Brahmā stole away all of Kṛṣṇa's cows and...
Professor: Yes, yes, yes, yes, I know.
Prabhupāda: And Kṛṣṇa again expanded Himself into so many cows, calves, friends. Then Brahmā thought that he is defeated.
Prabhupāda: Their profession is stealing.
Harry: Ah, but what'd you say then? Would you come and tell me they've stolen? You wouldn't, would you? Would you?
Śyāmasundara: No.
Harry: Would you tell then, would you come up and tell me that they've stolen?
Śyāmasundara: Sure, if we saw them do it or something. Of course.
Harry: You wouldn't charge them, though, would you? Or would you?
Śyāmasundara: Eh?
Revatīnandana: If necessary, we would.
Śyāmasundara: Oh yeah.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Karandhara: Well, about a year ago another scientist came forward, and he charged that those two scientists actually stole the knowledge from him. They were working with him, and they stole it to win Nobel Prize.
Prabhupāda: Yes, there are many scientists like that. Just like this Marconi, he stole the knowledge from Dr. Jagadisha Candra Bose. You know that?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I have heard this.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Jagadisha Candra... I was present. He said that "This man cheated me. I talked with him. Next morning he published the theory."
Karandhara: About radio?
Prabhupāda: No, newspaper. Because both of them were friends, scientists, they talked. And he took the clue, immediately published the theory.
rajāpati: But later, lately, we've been reading in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam how Arjuna's potency was gone. He was not even able to protect Kṛṣṇa's wives. What was missing there?
Prabhupāda: No, that, that, that is a example, that without Kṛṣṇa's help, everything is useless. Otherwise, how Kṛṣṇa's wife can be stolen away by others, the plan was different. But the outward show is that without Kṛṣṇa's mercy, nothing can be successful. Even you have got the same bow, same arrows, same man. But Kṛṣṇa... We must depend... That is trust. We have to depend on Kṛṣṇa's mercy. At the same time, we have to work. That is required. It may be Arjuna was proud that "I am Arjuna. I am taking them. Who can touch them?" That proudness. You see? And might be. It is quite natural.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: But if some of the kṣatriya or the śūdras, they want, so that is our prescription: "Go to the forest and kill some animal and eat that." That's all. You can kill one boar. Some disturbing elements, you can kill. You can kill some tiger. Like that. Learn to kill. No nonviolence. Learn to kill. Here also, as soon as you'll find, the kṣatriya, a thief, a rogue, unwanted element in the society, kill him. That's all. Finish. Kill him. Bās. Finished. So other will see, "Oh, the ruler is very strong." And others will... One killing will be lesson for many hundreds and thousands. No mercy. "Kill him." That's all. That was the system. In Kashmir about hundred years ago. If somebody has stolen, cut his hand. Bās. He cannot steal any more. So one cutting hand means finish. In that part of the world, no more stealing.
Prabhupāda: Take it for granted, different. What is the wrong there? After all, everyone is Kṛṣṇa's expansion. Ānanda cinmāyā-rasa-pratibhāvitābhiḥ (Bs. 5.37). We are also expansion. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. But still, we have got individuality. Kṛṣṇa proved it—I explained that in Vṛndāvana when everything was stolen by Brahmā. Again another batch of cows and calves and cowherds boys. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Immediately. What is the difficulty for Kṛṣṇa? Is it clear or not? You wanted to clarify. Is it clear or not?
Satsvarūpa: Yes, you said the answer is that it's different persons, not just one Arjuna, not just one Yaśodā.
Prabhupāda: Just like I have got hundred branches. Each branch I have got a set of my sitting room, of my books and everything. And wherever I go I see the same place. If it is possible for an ordinary man to have a hundred sets of the same thing, why not for Kṛṣṇa?
Girirāja: So in each branch you have a different cook, different president, different treasurer...
Prabhupāda: But the set is there, what I want. The set is there.
Dr. Patel: In America also, like here?
Prabhupāda: That's all. My things were stolen from my apartment in the beginning, so I went to the police. They simply noted down. That's all. (break) ...you can narrate the incidents when the negro at San Francisco...
Lilavati: Yes, we were...
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) Kṣatriya, this is all finished. Now only śūdras and, little vaiśyas there are.
Dr. Patel: No, here, here you have got also brāhmaṇas.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: But they don't follow them. Nobody follows them.
Prabhupāda: No...
Dr. Patel: Many people.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Mr. Ford is going to be the president now. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...of safety and security. During Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira's reign there was no unnecessary disease and anxiety also. That is mentioned. You have read? (break) Some hundred years ago. When I went to Kashmir, so they said that "Here the law was if a thief was caught and proved he has stolen, his hands would be cut off."
Dr. Patel: That is the law presently in Arabia.
Indian Man: Nepal too. Nepal.
Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. (break) So at the present moment Indians means non-Mohammedans. What he is, he does not know—but he is not Mohammedan. That's all. (laughter) Otherwise he has to be, go to Pakistan. Therefore he's non-Mohammedan. That's all. (break) In big, big cities you cannot safely walk. Here, India still, we lie down in the open air. That is not possible there. In Dallas, Dallas I wanted to lie down in the open air. "No, no, you cannot do that."
Prabhupāda: Just see. They have created such a civilization.
Yogeśvara: The little boy of President John Kennedy was in Central Park last week, and another boy came and pushed him to the ground and stole his bicycle. The president's son.
Prabhupāda: From the very beginning, stealing, and robbing. What is this picture? One horse without any...
Yogeśvara: I think it is the horse of the hunter.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee: They're the knights that live in the mountains here. It's called Alpina, live in the Alps.
Prabhupāda: So why don't you become once more cheated? You have been cheated so many times. Why not try this also? If that is his argument, that means you have been cheated so many times. So why not once more, and see whether it is cheating or reality? That sense will not come. "Oh, I have been cheated so many times. Therefore I shall not take." So why not become once more cheated and see the value? The example, as I say, sometimes. (Bengali) ...that he lost his utensils several times. The thief stole it. Therefore he promised, "Now I shall take my food on the ground. I shall not purchase any more utensils." What is...? This is bathing place or...?
Yogeśvara: This is where they go water skiing.
Prabhupāda: Water skiing?
Yogeśvara: Yes. They stand on two pieces of wood and they hold on to a rope, and a fast boat pulls them along the water, like that.
Prabhupāda: Then immediately you are under prison. It will take some time only. Just like if you infect some disease, It will take some time to manifest, but it will be manifested. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgaḥ. So in the, in the... Ordinarily, you can steal and hide yourself, but in the eyes of God, you cannot steal and hide yourself. That is not possible. You have stolen; you must suffer. (end)
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: "Those miscreants who are grossly foolish, lowest amongst men, whose knowledge is stolen by illusion, and who partake of the atheistic nature of demons, do not surrender unto Me." (French)
Prabhupāda: So narādhama, means lowest of the mankind. In the human form of life one could understand that as there is a pilot in the aeroplane, there is a pilot on this big cosmic manifestation.
Yogeśvara: Yes, but his last reaction to that was that he always finds Indian analogies amusing.
Prabhupāda: But he has no other knowledge. Without analogy he cannot understand. Then it will be dogmatic. So if you go this way you are dogmatic, and if you this way, analogy. Then what way he will take? (French)
Prabhupāda: But you are a fool. In your own way means foolish way. You do not know.
Nitāi:
- na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
- prapadyante narādhamāḥ
- māyayāpahṛta-jñānā
- āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
- (BG 7.15)
"Those miscreants who are grossly foolish, lowest amongst mankind, whose knowledge is stolen by illusion and who partake of the atheistic nature of demons do not surrender unto Me." It is said in the Bhagavad-gītā that simply by surrendering oneself unto the lotus feet of the Supreme Personality Kṛṣṇa, one can surmount the stringent laws of material nature. At this point a question rises. How is it that educated philosophers, scientists, businessmen, administrators and all the leaders of ordinary men do not surrender unto the lotus... (break) ...Manu, Vyāsa, Devala, Asita, Janaka, Prahlāda, Bali, and later on, Madhvācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Śrī Caitanya and many others who are faithful philosophers, politicians, educators, and scientists etc. surrendered unto the lotus feet of the Supreme Person, the all-powerful authority. Those who are not actually philosophers, scientists, educators, administrators, etc., but who pose themselves as such for material gain, do not accept the plan or path of the Supreme Lord. They have no idea of God. They simply manufacture their own worldly plans and consequently complicate the problems of material..."
Prabhupāda: Everyone comes, they say, "Why people are suffering?" They are concerned with the people suffering. Actually not. That is a plea only, as if he has taken the task of minimizing the suffering of humanity. He poses himself as very philanthropist. Actually, he cannot do anything.
Prabhupāda: Let him stay there. Don't allow him to come out. Yes.
Brahmānanda: He was planning to leave any day.
Prabhupāda: No, he cannot go. Then we shall charge you all theft charges.
Brahmānanda: Which?
Prabhupāda: Theft charges. He's, he stolen money, and he has stolen something in Bombay also.
Jayatīrtha: Prabhupāda, they still have so many debts from last year.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Jayatīrtha: They still owe money for last year's festival, so many thousands.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is... And even somehow or other, he goes out, then he should not be allowed strictly either in our, this temple or that temple.
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Let him go to hell.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He's saying stealing is relative. Some people steal because they watch television, some people steal because they're hungry or they need things...
Prabhupāda: Well, in the eyes of the law, when you go to the court, if somebody has stolen some diamond and if somebody has stolen some insignificant thing, in the court the six month prison is there. The man who has stolen an insignificant thing, the judge does not make any concession for him. "You have stolen, you must go to the jail." And the man who has stolen the diamond, he also takes the same term. So stealing is stealing. Either you steal diamond or a little fruit, it doesn't matter. The punishment is the same for the diamond-stealer and anything-insignificant-stealer. That is the law.
Professor (Hṛdayānanda): He still does not understand how we can say that one activity is bad or good. For example, he said that we gave the example of thieves, but that implies that previously there was already a standard that "This is good, and this is bad." But he wants to know how he can know definitely what is good and what is bad.
Prabhupāda: To become God conscious is good, and anything else, all bad. God is good. Therefore, if you are God conscious, you are good, and if you are not God conscious, then you are bad.
Prabhupāda: No, He is not imperfect.
Professor: No, God made us imperfect.
Prabhupāda: No, you have got that... Just like you have stolen, and you have gone to the prison house. That means judge is not imperfect; you are imperfect.
Professor: If God has not created us imperfect?
Prabhupāda: No, God has created perfect, but you have become imperfect by misusing your independence. God is fully independent. You are part and parcel of God. Therefore you have got that quality, independence. When you misuse that, you become bad; when you use it properly, you remain good.
Professor (Hṛdayānanda): Yes. How do we make ourselves bad?
Prabhupāda: Therefore the Bible is there: "You become good like this." If you don't do, then you become bad. The Bible says that "Thou shall not kill." If you don't kill, then you are good. If you kill, you are bad.
Prabhupāda: Gold. So have you created gold? How is your money? The gold is already there. You have stolen. You are thief. You are not laborer, but you are rascal, thief. You'll be punished for this policy. Is gold your property?
Devotee (1): But they say that if the whole world follows our example, then the society will be finished.
Prabhupāda: Nobody follows. We do not follow... There are so many... Why they are struggle? Why they struggle? Why do you fight? Because you are all thieves—you want to steal God's gold-therefore you fight. Why do you fight? Why you declare war from one nation to another? Because you are all thieves and you want to steal God's gold. Therefore there is fight. Why do you claim, "This is America, my land"? Is it your land? Have your forefathers created this? Why you falsely claim like that? What is the answer? You have stolen from another party, Red Indians, and you are now claiming, "We are the proprietor." You are thieves. You are not even gentlemen. What do you think?
Pañcadraviḍa: But they say... They say, "God is up in heaven. What does He need with gold?"
Prabhupāda: That we are loving. We are giving Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is loving, real loving. We are giving him eternal life, eternal bliss. Unless we love them, why we are taking so much trouble? The preacher must love the people. Otherwise why he is taking? He can do it for himself at home. Why he is taking so much trouble? Why in eighty years old I have come here if I do not love? So who can love better than a preacher? He loves even the animals. Therefore they are preaching, "Don't take meat." Do they love the animals, rascals? They are eating, and they love their country, that's all. Nobody loves. It is simply sense gratification. If somebody loves, he is Kṛṣṇa conscious, that's all. All rascals. They are after their own sense gratification, and they will put a signboard, "I love everyone." This is their business. And fools are accepting, "Oh, this man is very philanthropic." He does not love any man. He loves only senses. That's all. The servant of the senses, that's all.
Everyone is working because he is getting money. Where is the love? The minister, the prime minister, everyone, if they say, "No money, no salary," nobody will go. He takes the opportunity of taking money by bribe, by this way. Therefore they are: "I love your country. Elect me as president." That's all. What this president has done, Nixon? He has stolen so many things. So what is his love for the country?
Prabhupāda: There was a great devotee in South India. He was a treasury officer. So he took money from the treasury and constructed very nice temple. (laughter) Yes. Later on, he was caught, and he was put into jail by the Nawab. At that time the Mohammedan king, Nawab, he saw in dream that two boys, very beautiful, they have come to the Nawab: "Sir, what money he has taken, you can take from me and release him." So the Nawab said, "If I get my money, I can release him." Then, when his dream broke, he saw the money on the floor, and nobody was there. Then he could understand that he is great devotee. He called him immediately, that "You are released, and you take this money also. Whatever you have already taken, that's all right. And now this money also you take. You spend as you like." So devotees sometimes do like that. Actually nothing is private property. That is our philosophy. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam: (ISO 1) "Everything belongs to God." That's a fact. Under the influence of māyā we are thinking that "This is my property."
Just like suppose this cushion. Wherefrom the wood has come? Has anybody produced wood? Who has produced? It is God's property. Rather, we have stolen God's property and claiming, "My property." Then Australia. The Englishmen came here, but is that the property of the Englishmen? It was there. America, it was there. And when everything will be finished, it will be there. In the middle we come and claim, "It is my property," and fight. Is it not? You are a barrister, you can judge better.
Siddha-svarūpa: The Japanese didn't have any atom bombs to send back, though.
Prabhupāda: No. It was in possession of Hitler. And your American stolen and kept it. Hitler wanted to use it, but, good sense, he did not like. He said that "I can do it immediately, but I will not do it." So three bombs they kept ready, and when Germany was in awkward condition these Americans, they stolen, and they used it in Japan. This was manufactured by the German.
Bali-mardana: Most of the American scientific knowledge for going to space, etc., is all gotten from the Germans.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bali-mardana: They stole the German scientists. And the Russians also, after the war, they took many German scientists.
Prabhupāda: I think the aeroplane was made by the Germans first.
Prabhupāda: Everything has got proper use. In the material condition we do not know that. Therefore Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has made a list, how to use your, this anger, greediness, like that. He says, kamaḥ kṛṣṇa-karmārpaṇe. We are lusty for doing something for our sense gratification. The same desire, same propensity, can be utilized for serving Kṛṣṇa. Just like we are writing books, keeping night, whole night. So for an old man like me, it is tedious. But we are doing for Kṛṣṇa. So similarly, another author may be writing whole night for some sex literature. So the labor for producing a sex literature and the labor for producing a Bhāgavata is the same. It may be same ambition that "Let me become a big author. My name will be very popular." But one thing is being done for Kṛṣṇa; one thing is being done for sense gratification. So that propensity of becoming a reputed author or the labor, this, same, but it is being utilized for different purposes. Similarly, you take anything, if you use it for... Just like Hanumān. He became angry upon Rāvaṇa. He set fire in his city, destroyed the whole city. He showed his anger, but not for his personal sense gratification. He wanted to serve Lord Rāma. Sītā was stolen by him, so there was arrangement for fighting, and he did the same thing, set fire. To set fire in your home or your country, it is not good, but he did it for satisfaction of Lord Rāmacandra. So everything has its proper use when it is utilized for serving Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are living beings. We are conscious. We cannot give up anything, but we are being trained up how to utilize everything for Kṛṣṇa. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So give him some prasāda.
Brahmānanda:
- na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
- prapadyante narādhamāḥ
- māyayāpahṛta-jñānā
- āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
- (BG 7.15)
"Those miscreants who are grossly foolish, lowest among mankind, whose knowledge is stolen by illusion, and who partake of the atheistic nature of demons, do not surrender unto Me."
Prabhupāda: As soon as one denies Kṛṣṇa is not God, then he comes within those categories: miscreant, rascal, lowest of the mankind, his knowledge is taken away by māyā, and he's a demon.
Prabhupāda: Oh. When I say? That means no brain. I am asking without seeing, and you are seeing for the last one week. You do not know it, that what is secure, what is not secure. That is the defect. Here thieves are very expert.
Dhanañjaya: But the chokidar is there at the front, guarding all night, and the bell is situated very high inside the dome.
Prabhupāda: Still should be secure. (break) ...that in the temple these bells are stolen even it is secure. Therefore we shall be very careful.
Dhanañjaya: But there are always devotees, twenty-four hours.
Prabhupāda: (to passerby:) Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa. But our devotees, the first-class devotee, (chuckles) he is not very intelligent. He does not know what is secure, what is not secure. (break) ...character that we are not very much concerned, but we have to live in a world which is very, very cunning. It is not yet half past six. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)
Harikeśa: Once in Vṛndāvana you were sitting in your room, and I had some bananas on the right-hand side. Do you remember this?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Harikeśa: The monkey opened the door while we were all sitting there, stole the bananas, and raced out again.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Many times, many times. When I was in Rādhā-Dāmodara temple I was eating, and they will open the door and take my food. And who is going to struggle with him? Whole bunch of capatis. Even raw dough taken away.
Harikeśa: We were once walking in the road right in front of Rādhā-Dāmodara temple holding some prasādam, and the monkey came from a tree and knocked down...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Harikeśa: ...the devotee and stole the prasādam and ran away.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: The simple method that everything belongs to God... The king is the representative of God, and he distributes the land amongst the kṣatriyas. Just like knighthood or in Mussulman times, subedat(?), and in Hindu times, the subordinate king. Just like Pāṇḍavas, they were the emperors, and under them there were many hundreds and thousands of kings, states. And everything belongs to God. So why fighting? Take it. It is God's property. We are all sons of God. But there is no culture, Aryan culture. They do not know how to live peacefully and cultivate spiritual culture. They do not know. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśāya ye bahir-artha... (SB 7.5.31). And durāśāya, bad hopes or hopes against hope, they're trying to be happy, bahir-artha, by the external energy, material, most fallen ideas, all foolish theories without any knowledge. Material, that's all. Bahir artha, external energy. Otherwise there is no cause of anxiety or distress. There is enough land. They can produce enough food and live peacefully. They are talking of peace, but they do not know how peace can be achieved. They are hankering after peace, but they do not know how to achieve peace. And that formula is given in the Bhagavad-gītā: Accept God as the proprietor; then there will be peace. Something stolen from the proprietor by some thieves, and when they sit down to take their shares, there will be fight. The property is stolen, and they are sharing. Now, one will say, "Oh, I have worked so hard. You are giving me so little share?" And others will say, "No, no, we have worked equally." Somebody, "No..." In this way there will be fight.
Prabhupāda: It will go because they are all thieves. When the stolen property is to be divided, there will be fight.
Cyavana: Like a band of pirates. They always fight amongst themselves and kill each other.
Prabhupāda: That is natural. When they plunder, they are united, and when they share, there will be fight. This is psychology. When plundering others' property they will unite and take the whole thing, and then, when they come for sharing, there will be fight. This is the psychology everywhere. Therefore there are so many parties. Just like in India the... Of course, Congress Party was the predominant to fight with the Britishers. And as soon as they got independence, so many hundred thousand parties grew up: the Congress Party, the RSS party, the Hindu-mazara(?) party, the Muslim League party, this party, this party. And then they began to fight. This is the way. Senayor eva sa ucyate. All these thieves and rascal, rogues... God's property, why you should fight amongst themselves? Property belongs to somebody else. Insanity. Just like this is government park. Anyone can come in. Everyone can equally enjoy. So why not make the whole world as Kṛṣṇa's park? What is the difficulty? Actually it is the fact. Why do you claim? Now we have come. If you say, "No, this portion belongs to us," and another, "This portion belongs to us," then there will be fight. And if we are Kṛṣṇa conscious, every one of us, that if they see Kṛṣṇa's property, so let us enjoy. What is the cause of fighting? The hotels are the centers for all kinds of sinful activity. Huh? Illicit sex, drinking, gambling and meat-eating. No discrimination.
Dr. Patel: No. They were not able to be successful to...
Prabhupāda: No, no. He knew it, everything, but he did not like to do it. He said. He said. He was gentleman. But these people are not gentlemen. He knew it perfectly well. He said that "I can smash the whole world, but I do not use that weapon." The Germans already discovered. But out of humanity they did not use it. And all the, your American, other countries, they have stolen from German ideas.
Dr. Patel: I think, sir, German scientists ran away during the wartime to America.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Some of them went to Russia, some of them-(aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa—to America.
Brahmānanda: The German scientists, they went to America. But the plans for these things were left in Germany and the Russians came. The Russians got the plans, the Americans got the scientists.
Dr. Patel: I see. So the Russians, I mean, scientists produced from the plan the bomb.
Brahmānanda: That's why the Americans got it first, because they had the scientists.
Dr. Patel: But that man was caught from America giving away secret to the Russians. He was electrocuted, no? The science does not belong to a single race or a nation.
Prabhupāda: No, more scientists were there in Germany.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: And actually that is fact.
Indian man: This was.... Even Acyutānanda said the other day. Somebody asked us that question, "Why not 'God conscious'? Why do you want 'Kṛṣṇa'?" He also said the same thing. (break) "What is the difference between thieving the butter and other things by Lord Kṛṣṇa and thieving by us?" I said "The thieving is thieving." I said, "How can there be theft of..." (break)
Prabhupāda: And if you steal, you will be beaten with shoes.
Indian man: We are beaten with shoes, but He is allowed.
Prabhupāda: Not only allowed, but He is worshiped: "Sir, it is very kind of You that You have stolen."
Indian man: That is what.... In forensic language it is called abet, abetted. The very owner abets, "It is kind of you to have committed theft of this." (end)
Prabhupāda: Then why they are working here?
Bhavānanda: They collect along the road.
Prabhupāda: (break) ...all planner has stolen. And we have no such arrangement. Simply we are purchasing land; we do not know how to utilize it. (break) Whenever I come I see new bhalti, new lota, and the old is stolen. That every time I come I see, a new set. Here also. Who is looking after? Everything is open, no control.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This morning Jayapatāka Mahārāja was talking to me. On the boat program they're having? They want to show that Bengali movie, "Hare Kṛṣṇa People." They have no projector, so he wanted to know whether the money that I want to give him can be used for purchasing a projector rather than the land purchase.
Prabhupāda: Yes, projector is necessary.
Prabhupāda: What is that samosā? Our samosā?
Hṛdayānanda: No. (break) ...two British planes came with medicine and they wouldn't let the planes land because they have some diplomatic quarrel with England. So they preferred their own people die to save the diplomatic purpose. Also another country sent supplies to help, and they said that it was stolen. They don't know where it went.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Hṛdayānanda: Another plane from another country came, and when they delivered all their supplies they said that everything was stolen. They don't know where it went.
Prabhupāda: Stolen?
Hṛdayānanda: Yes. The medicine was all stolen. Also the government was making many people work hard due to the disaster, and when the people...
Prabhupāda: So they are suffering from disaster. Again work hard. Just see how benefit.
Bhāgavata: In New York one policeman admitted that when the police would capture the thieves with the stolen goods, then they would confiscate the goods and keep it privately in their homes and sell the stolen goods and get the money for themselves. They would not return it to the owner, but they would utilize it for making money. So they are also thieves.
Prabhupāda: So if this is the practice in a country which is so opulent, just imagine what is there in India.
Pañcadraviḍa: I had experience, because when I was younger I was stealing, and I was taking to the hock shop one typewriter, and while I was taking to the hock shop this typewriter, the police came and showed me his badge and took this typewriter and one French horn from... He took the money, and he said, "I am going to check to see if this is stolen." So one week later I was worried. I called him. I said, "What is happening?" He said, "That typewriter was reported one year ago stolen from the school." But he said, "Because I think you're a good boy, I'm not going to arrest, you because I don't think you did it. If I thought for a moment you did it, I would immediately come and take you." So I said, "That's all right. What about the French horn? When can I have my money back?" He said, "You just forget about this. You leave it to me."
Prabhupāda: To keep you honest. (laughter) To keep you honest, you just don't hope your money.
Guru-krpa: Their practice is that they watch our saṅkīrtana devotees collect all day, and they know when he has good pocketful of money. Then they arrest him...
Prabhupāda: In Germany they have done this.
Prabhupāda: In Navadvīpa... You have heard the name of Vamsidāsa Bābājī. So sometimes, when his things were stolen, the disciples will cry that "It is stolen." So he said, "Why you are bothering? One thief gives; another thief takes. That's all. Who gave the money, he is also thief, and who has taken away, he is also thief. So why you are bothering?" One thief gives; another thief takes.
Bhāgavata: He learned that the policeman was selling the stolen goods because one morning in New York they passed by the temple, and they said, "We have many cartons of paper towel. You want to buy?"
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Bhāgavata: They came by our temple. They said, "We have many cartons of paper towel."
Prabhupāda: Paper towel?
Bhāgavata: Paper towels, yes. And they asked if we wanted to buy. "Very cheap," they said, "cheaper than in the supermarket." So then we could understand where they had gotten...
Prabhupāda: (break) ...deal with such men. This material world is so corrupt. (break) ...we are not going to get that land, eh? That land? I don't think we are going.
Prabhupāda: I know it.
Rādhāvallabha: Śrīla Prabhupāda, there was one story in the magazine National Geographic of a valuable diamond, the Hope Diamond, the most valuable in the world, that was stolen from a deity of Sītā-devī. So every single person that has ever gotten the diamond has been killed.
Prabhupāda: Sītā-devī?
Rādhāvallabha: Yes, a deity of Sītā-devī. They stole the diamond from this deity in India.
Prabhupāda: When?
Rādhāvallabha: Many years ago.
Guru-kṛpā: This diamond is in the Washington...
Rādhāvallabha: Yes. Smithsonian.
Guru-kṛpā: ...Institute. Washington, D.C. The biggest diamond in the world.
Rādhāvallabha: Anyone that's ever stole it's been killed. Everyone is very much afraid now. They can't understand why everyone is dying that has taken the diamond.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Stolen?
Trivikrama: Stolen from India?
Prabhupāda: No.... Oh.
Gurudāsa(?): Rāvaṇa's. Who stole it?
Madhudviṣa: The largest diamond in the world?
Prabhupāda: Well, the Britishers, they stolen so many diamonds from India.
Trivikrama: The whole British Museum.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Whole British Museum means stolen properties from many countries, that's all, especially in India.
Yaśodānandana: Prabhupāda, I have heard that previously in India, some paṇḍita says, that when they used to put the jewels on the Deities they used to put some mantra that, when they install the Deity, that "Whoever takes this mantra will never be able to have peace or will die," some curse mantras.
Yaśodānandana: Whoever steals the jewels.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is possible.
Rādhāvallabha: Even just recently they were laughing at this curse, and they took the jewel from Sītā-devī in their car to go to the museum, and their car crashed on the way.
Pañca-draviḍa: Did they die?
Rādhāvallabha: No, they didn't die. A severe crash, though.
Prabhupāda: Don't you think the whole British nation is now ruined?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That has crashed.
Prabhupāda: For our personal comfort, we, our students are lying on the floor. They are not using the money for purchasing nice furniture. No personal comfort. But if you say that "You are purchasing big, big car," yes, for going quickly to serve Kṛṣṇa. Our service is main point. If I can go and serve Kṛṣṇa within a minute, why shall I wait for one hour? So we take all advantages. After all, it belongs to Kṛṣṇa. They say that "We have manufactured." That's all.... But we say that Kṛṣṇa has manufactured. So they.... This philosophy, it is little difficult to understand by the dull men, that nothing is without Kṛṣṇa. Everything.... Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Sarvam, when we say sarvam, how we can exclude this and that? Everything is in relationship with Kṛṣṇa, sarvam. Sarvam means everything. So how can you discriminate, "This is material; this is spiritual"? The discrimination is that when it is not used for Kṛṣṇa, that is material, and when it is used for Kṛṣṇa, that is spiritual. That is the explanation of sarvam. Just like a thief has stolen my money. The money will be utilized. He'll spend it. I am spending, and he is.... Then why he's criminal. If you plea.... If you present this plea that "Money's for spending, so either you spend or I spend...," but that is not the idea, that the money.... My money means the money should be spent for my purpose, and because you have taken the money and spending for your purpose, therefore you are criminal. That is the distinction between material and spiritual. Money, or everything, belongs to Kṛṣṇa. When it is utilized for Kṛṣṇa, this is spiritual, and when it is not utilized for Kṛṣṇa, that is material. Where is the difficulty to understand? You cannot say that "Yes, I have taken your money, so you are also spending. I am also spending. So why do you call me a criminal?" The answer will be: "Yes, you are not spending for me. You are spending for you. Therefore you are criminal." Is it very difficult to understand?
Guru-kṛpā: Now they're dividing up the booty, fighting over it.
Prabhupāda: That story, that some thieves stolen. Now, when they are dividing, they say, "Please honestly, religious divide." The things are stolen, and now it is to be divided religiously. The foundation of the thing is stealing, and they are dividing in.... Now they are making laws, morality.
Devotee (1): They have a saying, "Honor among thieves."
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) This has been named by father, kaitava, simply cheating. Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2). The duplicity, hypocrisy, is there completely rejected.
Guru-kṛpā: Kṛṣṇa is a better cheater, though. He will cheat them in the end.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is not cheater. The Kṛṣṇa's energy is so powerful that anyone who is a cheater, he will be cheated, that's all, automatically. (break) If you infect some disease, you'll have to suffer, automatically. It is not that the disease has to be injected. No. Because you have infected, you'll suffer. The same law is there. You have done this sinful. You'll suffer that. That is the cycle of birth and death. You have created mentality. You'll become the same animal, and you suffer. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). (break) ...we have. We have seen this cloud, extraordinary.
Mr. Dixon: Do you watch TV yourself?
Prabhupāda: No, we have no business. We don't wish to waste our time.
Mr. Dixon: Do you read newspapers?
Prabhupāda: No. What is newspaper? "This man is killed. This man has stolen. This politician has captured the government." So why shall I waste time?
Mr. Dixon: How do you become informed as to certain events? Is that...
Prabhupāda: We have got enough books to read, these books. If you read our books, in your whole lifetime you cannot finish it. And that is required to understand Kṛṣṇa. That is success of life. So why should.... Of course, we are in touch in the newspaper, but as much as it is required. We are in touch with the material world as much as it is required. We are interested in Kṛṣṇa. To help our Kṛṣṇa consciousness we may be in touch with the material world as much as possible. Just like we are riding car also, we are also using dictaphone, everything, but it is not for any ulterior purpose. It is for Kṛṣṇa's service. Just like we are writing books. This is Kṛṣṇa's service. People may understand about Kṛṣṇa, be benefited. This is our.... And in that way we are printing books, we are selling books, we are writing books.
Prabhupāda: Laṅgoṭā means the loincloth. So what is it you have given up? And you cannot give up your body. This is made, this kṣitir ap-tejo-marud-vyoma, (indistinct) these five elements, they're also Kṛṣṇa's. You have got mind. Oh, that belongs to Kṛṣṇa. What you have got that you'll give up? You have stolen everything. You don't accept the real proprietor, and you are thinking, "I am the proprietor." That is your fault. That is miscreant. Stena eva sa ucyate (BG 3.12). It is said there. Read Bhagavad-gītā carefully, that everyone is a thief. Stena eva sa ucyate. All thiefs, rogues, rascals. That is the substance. If one does not accept God, the Supreme, and does not surrender, he is miscreant, mūḍha. Mūḍha. He does not know what does he possess, and he's thinking, "I am giving up." What you are giving up? You do not possess anything. A mūḍha, falsely thinking that "I am giving up." What you have got? Nobody can give up, nobody can enjoy. This is real knowledge. Jīvera 'svarūpa' haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa: (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109) "I am servant of Kṛṣṇa. Everything possessed by Kṛṣṇa. So I'll simply try to offer Kṛṣṇa whatever is there for His..." Just like nokara (indistinct), servant, in a house, he's trying to satisfy the master. But the things does not belong to him. The things belongs to the master. But if he serves very nicely, master becomes pleased, "Oh, he is very faithful servant. Perfect." Faithful means he knows that "Everything belongs to master, and everything should be utilized for master's pleasure, not for my pleasure." Then he's a thief, he's a bad servant.
Prabhupāda: Most sinful.
Hari-śauri: Most sinful, or his knowledge is stolen by illusion. (break)
Bharadvāja: I understand, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that the pure devotee can be as pervasive as Supersoul?
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Bharadvāja: By the mercy of Supersoul, he can be present in many places at once?
Prabhupāda: Yes. By the grace of Kṛṣṇa, a devotee can become anything.
Duryodhana-guru: So in other words that means the pure devotees can be omniscient?
Prabhupāda: Everything. God is omniscient, so a pure devotee can become omniscient by the grace of God.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So Prabhupāda replied that "We are not interested in so-called other gurus. Simply we know this, that Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that persons who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, they're either foolish, miscreants, sinful, lowest amongst mankind, or their knowledge is stolen by illusion." Unquote.
Prabhupāda: General definition.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The Los Angeles Times has a circulation of one and a half million daily. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...recently I said all these so-called gurus are either rascals, miscreant, lowest of the mankind, or they have no knowledge. Not directly, indirectly.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How's that, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: That is fact. These rascals come here for women and money, that's all. They do not know what is spiritual life. If I say like that, you think it is right or wrong?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You're right.
Prabhupāda: Formerly in the currency, when you go to take some exchange, it was the etiquette of the teller to ask you, "What you want, silver money, gold money or paper money?" It was their duty. If you say "I want gold money," they will pay in gold money. Not only it is written in the paper, "I promise to pay," but the promise was kept. If he wants, "Give me payment in gold," they will pay. And now, to keep gold, hoarding gold, is illegal. So you cannot ask. This is going on, legalized cheating. You have to accept this paper money. That's all. Don't ask for gold. And there is no honesty at all. I can take paper money for my convenience sake, but how you can force me to take paper money? That is not honesty. So dishonesty begins from the government. You cannot keep gold. If you have kept gold, there will be searching, and if it is found that you have gold, you'll be punished. In India it is now being done. There is no freedom even at your home, in your private life. Formerly, any common man could keep gold according to his desire. There was no such thing. Sometimes he would hide it even within the ground, because there was no bank. At least in India this was the practice. If you have got some gold, you keep it somewhere confidential within the ground so that it may not be stolen. So everyone should have right to keep his money as he likes. Why government should interfere? Therefore you see the Bhāgavatam, rājanya-dasyu-dharmaḥ.(?) The government men will be like rogues and thieves. By law they will take away. It is now going on in India. I think here it is also? You cannot keep gold. Why I cannot keep gold? If I have secured gold, I can keep it. I want gold. You write, "I promise to pay," so there must be gold coins. I must have. So many difficulties will come in the kingdom of māyā gradually. It is already come.
Prabhupāda: It is not residential.
Hari-śauri: Oh.
Prabhupāda: But I was residing there.
Rāmeśvara: That was where the typewriter was stolen?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Tape recorder, typewriter.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, from up here.
Prabhupāda: It was stolen by that caretaker, a black man. He expected some monthly remuneration.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The same thing happened at our temple here. They were employing one man for cleaning the floor. So after a while I told them "Now fire this man." So anyway, they fired him. As soon as they fired him he stole a big air conditioner, worth five hundred dollars. Anyway, he came back later and we got the air conditioner. I caught him and I said "Now bring it back," and I sent a devotee with him and he brought the air conditioner back. (pause) "Hall of Minerals and Gems."
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are having a big exhibit of minerals and gems, Museum of Natural History. One thing about this museum, it can give Bhāradvāja many ideas for doll exhibits.
Prabhupāda: No, they came there, Second Avenue.
Hari-śauri: Mukunda?
Prabhupāda: All of them.
Rūpānuga: That's amazing. How long were you there, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Here? About six months. Then when my things were stolen, then one boy was coming, his name was Paul Murray, he invited me that "You come to my loft." He took me to Bowery Street.
Devotee (1): I met that boy in Amherst. He has a boutique; he sells clothing.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You must have felt very bad when your things were stolen.
Prabhupāda: Yes, I felt little disappointed. But some friends, they offered me, "Never mind, you take my typewriter," somebody, "You take my tape recorder."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. Things were very easy here.
Hari-śauri: Not easy.
Rādhāvallabha: Kṛṣṇa always provides facilities.
Prabhupāda: So there was no difficulty. I got from other friends.
Prabhupāda: Bhakti means yes, exchange of love between God and the individual soul.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This becomes awaking of the spiritual platform. So the Kṛṣṇa consciousness process is gradually to purify one, because that natural loving propensity is there. Our contention, and practically we are experiencing it, is that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is natural way of life. It's not artificial imposition. Rather in this present materialistic way of life, so many artificial standards and impositions have been put upon us. We can see that because culture is always changing. One year this is right to do, the next year that's right. Everything is simply mental concoction. But this Kṛṣṇa consciousness process is eternal, it's never changed. We have history from the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. For millions and millions of years people have been engaged in the very same process that we're following: of chanting the holy names, worshiping the Deity in the temple, taking prasādam, association with saintly persons. The very same process, it hasn't changed. And the very same sentiment of love of God is being awakened naturally. So our contention is that the love is simply misdirected. It simply has to be redirected towards Kṛṣṇa, and the spiritual master, he does this. He takes our energy, our love, our intelligence, our everything and directs it towards Kṛṣṇa. And as a result, you become purified. A very natural process. Just like we have a propensity to love so rather than waste our love on the temporary forms of the material world, because they're all perishable. Dehāpatya-kalatrādiṣv ātma-sainyeṣv asatsv api (SB 2.1.4). First of all we love the body, deha. And apatya, we love the family members, the sons, kalatra, we love our wife, ādiṣu we like our community, nation, so many things. But all of these things, they're temporary. They won't last, they can't endure. So all of our love practically is being wasted. It's stolen.
Prabhupāda: There is an example. In a water tank you throw one stone. It becomes a circle. And the circle expands, expands, expands unless the circle comes to the shore. Similarly our loving affair begins from personal self to family, from family to society, community, nation, international. But still, it is imperfect unless the circle reaches to the lotus feet of God. Then it is satisfied. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce (CC Madhya 22.42). Here, any loving affairs, that is more or less lusty. A man or woman love each other with some desire, not without desire.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Mukunda: There's some books that came out since I brought those last books.
George Harrison: There's also somebody, I think it was a guy who was trying to get his wife back or something. (laughs) I know it was in California, and he was saying "They've stolen my wife." These stories kill me, I mean it's so funny because the way...
Prabhupāda: Find out this verse, brahmacārī gurukule.
Hari-śauri: I think that's in Seven, Two.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is so many times explained. Just like a child wants to do something. The father says, "Don't do it," I have said several times. Reluctantly, "All right, do it." I have given this example of my practical experience in 1925 or '26 when my son was two years old. There was a table fan, "I would like to touch it." And I said, "No, no, don't touch." This is child. So but it's a child. He again tried to touch it. So there was a friend, he said, "Just slow the speed and let him touch." So I did it, slowed the speed and he touched-tung! Then he would not touch. You see. So this sanction was given, "Touch it," reluctantly. Now when he gets experience and I ask him, "Touch again?" "No." So this sanction. All of us who have come to this material world, it is like that. Reluctantly. Therefore God comes again to inform these rascals that "Now you have tried so much, better give up this, come to Me again." Sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). Sanction was given, certainly, and he has experience, very bitter, but still he won't... This is obstinacy. Dog's mentality. The father has come personally. Now we have experimented everything—karma, jñāna, yoga, this, that, all nonsense. "Now I say..." It is said most confidential. Sarva-guhyatamam. "Better give up this job. Surrender to Me, come back to Me." So sanction was there, certainly. Without sanction they cannot do it. God created this. That is sanction. You wanted material world to enjoy. "All right, do it, here is material world. Take as much petrol as you like and drive motorcar and create accident, do, go on. But now I am giving you good advice, that give up this business, come back to Me." This is sanction. Reluctant, the same example. I did not like that child to touch the fan, but he would insist. "All right, make an experiment." And when he got the experience, next time, ask him, "Now do it?" "No." This is going on. The sanction, without sanction there is no possibility. Mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanam—that is mattaḥ, "from Me." But he's insisting, so therefore sanction—"All right, let him experiment." That independence God never touches. So he has got independence. Yathecchasi tathā kuru (BG 18.63). So he is creating problem. Still, Kṛṣṇa coming, that "You have created simply problems. What you have gained? Better give up this all nonsense, come to Me." This is the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. Those who are intelligent, they are taking up. And those who are still remaining rascal, they are going on. That is our choice, if we want to be intelligent or rascal. Practically. What we have gained by this so-called material advancement? They have created problem, different problems. That's all. But still, we think that it is progress. And this is going on. Without God's sanction you cannot do anything, that's a fact. But what kind of sanction it is, that you have to understand. God is creator, God is giving sanction, everything is God. Otherwise how He is God? But He has to do. There is a story like that, that the thief is praying to God, "My Lord, give me the chance I can make some stealing in that house." And the householder also praying to God, "My Lord, please save my house, my things may not be stolen." Now God has to adjust, God has to please the thief and the householder. And both of them are prayers. So God has so intelligence, He can do that. He can give the sanction to the thief and He can give protection to the householder. That is God's position. Because both of them prayers, praying, "Give me the facility." And īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna tiṣṭhati (BG 18.61). And He is situated in everyone's heart and there are so many petitions, and He has to deal with them. That is God. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: So Indians did not like that Mohammedans may go away. Rather, when Shri Raj Birla (?) was arrested by flight, the Bengali zamindars, they protested. Rani Bhavani, she protested. Although it is alleged that Shri Raj Birla (?) kidnapped her daughter. But if Shri Raj Birla kidnapped her daughter, how he (she) supported Shri Raj Birla? There are so many falsehoods. On the whole, the Indians never planned to drive away the Mohammedans. They never. That's a fact. They were happy because there was no exploitation. All these Mohammedans, they made their home in India, so whatever lavishly they were spending, that was coming to the Indians. In Taliganj (?) there is a man. Now they are aristocratic family. He was servant of the nawab, and he stolen one shoes, one feet, which was bedecked with jewels. So by selling that jewel he became a rich man. So although they were using jewelled shoe, but it was in India. They were satisfied that "I am nawab. I am using jeweled shoes." But the jewelled shoes was in India and these Englishmen, they have taken away all the jewels even from the walls and keeping them in their homes, all gold, jewels, everything.
Prabhupāda: And what is British Empire? British Empire could not occupy the whole world. We are occupying the whole world.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: But what they've done is they opened a newsletter which Rāmeśvara Swami sent. And it must have been addressed to Gargamuni Swami. They must have stolen it from the postman by giving him two rupees.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. We are trying to expand our empire, and it is already done all over the world.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay.
Pradyumna: "Now we've become more than the British Empire. Even the British Empire was not as expansive as we are. They had only a portion of the world, and we have not completed expanding. We must expand more and more unlimitedly."
Prabhupāda: You also explain, that British Empire expanded by military strength. And we are expanding by Ratha-yātrā. We are expanding our empire simply by Ratha-yātrā.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Your men you take.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I am only requesting you to return the temple devotees which you have stolen. That's all. I don't want one man from this party. We will manage it. Just return the temple devotees.
Haṁsadūta: (talking back and forth to Gopāla Kṛṣṇa-indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yesterday I told him that temple painting is going on... Who is painting? I never saw. (Hindi conversation)
Akṣayānanda: So we should have one kitchen only. One kitchen? As we had discussed last night. Now we have a Deity kitchen and a devotee kitchen. We also have a guest house kitchen.
Prabhupāda: Why three?
Akṣayānanda: So the devotee kitchen and Deity kitchen could be made into one.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That's decided.
Akṣayānanda: Yes. So I'll give you a list of the preparations we'll offer for your approval. It means we'll be offering less to the Deity.
Prabhupāda: What is difficulty? (Hindi conversation) How many Deities are there? Guru-Gaurāṅga four, Kṛṣṇa-Balarāma two, six, and...
Akṣayānanda: Kṛṣṇa, Rādhā, and the gopīs.
Prabhupāda: Ten.
Prabhupāda: One boy, he was coming to me. In that hundred, about one hundred seventy-first street, all my things were stolen. My tape recorder, typewriter. Fortunately they did not touch my manuscript that I was typing, typing my books. So some money was stolen. Then one boy, he was coming to me, he told me, "Please come to my place." A loft. Bowery Street. I did not know the Bowery Street was not a good quarter. All bums and drunks. When I see there, one Jewish friend, he had electrical shop, he told me, "Swamiji, you have gone to Bowery Street? Oh, it is not your place." I did not know that it is full of drunkards. But they were lying down in front of my door, but they were very respectful. When I'd go, these drunkards comes and they respectfully give me ways. And they would lie down on urine and something like that, on water. Then the boy who took me there... He was Murray. His last title was Murray. And he was taking LSD. So since I went there he did not go to work. Otherwise, he was working and getting daily twenty-five dollars, in some dock he was working. Since I went, he stopped working, and I had to pay 125 dollars for the loft. One lady was the landlord. So I was going on. Some people were coming. That Mukunda began to come, his wife, and another black boy, half-black. Yeargen, Karlapati. I gave him name, Karlapati. He was coming. Then one day that boy Murray, he showed some crazy features. So I thought it is dangerous to live with him. So I approached Mukunda. Mukunda had no place, still I asked him. So I kept my goods at Mukunda's house and went to live with Yeargen.
Prabhupāda: Nobody's bona fide, that's all. This is their conclusion. Because they have confronted with some non-bona fide, they have concluded that everyone is non-bona fide.
Hari-śauri: It's very easy just to try to brush it all under the couch and forget about it.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) A man's household utensils was taken by the thief. He promised, "I shall not purchase anymore utensils, I shall eat on the floor. (laughs) Because the thief has stolen my plates, I'm not going to purchase anymore, I shall eat on the floor. (Bengali)
Hari-śauri: They give the example that just because someone may be passing counterfeit money, that doesn't mean that all the money you get...
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. They conclude that no more take any money, all counterfeit. At least in India, Bhagavad-gītā is there, accepted, the God-science literature all over the world.
Hari-śauri: Hm.
Prabhupāda: Every country. So why they do not take the Bhagavad-gītā as the standard?
Hari-śauri: Eventually they will if we push it on. (pause)
Prabhupāda: My mother was very much fond of pickles. After resting in the afternoon, she would take something very sour, pickle. We used to take with her also. (laughs) We were small children, my mother died when I was only 14 years old. (long pause) (aside) What else? All right bring it.
Prabhupāda: She is expert in typing. Amongst the women, she is expert typist. She is expert in so many things. Only defect is that she is woman. But Kṛṣṇa says, striyaḥ śūdrās tathā vaiśyaḥ: "Never mind woman. If she is devotee, she also comes to Me." Striyaḥ śūdrās tathā, "no one barred." Especially naming, striyaḥ śūdrās tathā vaiśya te 'pi yānti parām. Everyone is to be.... Kṛṣṇa is so kind. There is no restriction. Everyone is open to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Jīvera 'svarūpa' haya-nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). This is open to all living entities. There is no restriction. And so long this body is there, material, there is distinction between this and that. Otherwise, when you come to the platform of spiritual understanding, paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18), then there is no restriction. Higher, lower, this, that, so many. Gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ (CC Madhya 13.80). So any newspaper propaganda against us? No. One complaint is standing, that with our life members and others, subscriber, they always complain they are not getting paper, they are not getting book. That is the general complaint.
Akśayananda: They send regularly. We are sending. But many times the mail is stolen, magazines, Back to Godhead.
Prabhupāda: That is a fact.
Prabhupāda: Here they never satisfied. This is the modern mentality. Nobody is satisfied with his income. He wants more money. And for that purpose he can do anything rascal. I have seen it. This peon puts his bag without any responsibility. Letters are strewn and maybe some letters stolen. Who can say? And he came to earn some money. For some time he'll compose and get some labor. And in Calcutta I have seen all the office peons, they are sleeping in Dalhousie Square, the peon book as the pillow, for hours together. And when they, after distributing, when they return to the office it is going to be closed. And if they are asked explanation, "Why you are so late?" "Oh, he was not there. I had to wait three hours," and so on, so on, so on. Everyone is dishonest. Nobody is working honestly. Especially in India, because poverty-stricken. If they can sleep two hours he thinks that he has made some profit. Formerly people were God conscious. They did not like to cheat, that "God will be displeased." Now they don't believe in God, so they can do anything.
Hari-śauri:
- na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ
- prapadyante narādhamāḥ
- māyayāpahṛta-jñānā
- āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ
- (BG 7.15)
"Those miscreants who are grossly foolish, lowest among mankind, whose knowledge is stolen by illusion, and who partake of the atheistic nature of demons, do not surrender unto Me."
Prabhupāda: That's it. So you'll find everyone of this description, either sinful, or lowest of the mankind, or rascal, or puffed-up with false knowledge, but the basic principle is: no God. So the only solution is let them first of all become God conscious. Then all solution. Otherwise there is no hope.
Dr. Kneupper: The problem is very complex...
Prabhupāda: Yes, it must be complex. They will create complexity.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: (japa) Sell books and this principle follow: half construct temple, half print books. That's it. No income tax. "We have spent everything. That's all." (japa) In Vṛndāvana, he was suggesting, that Set, Setterji, that "You make some will. Otherwise, after your... In your absence the government will..." And I'll not keep a single farthing. I shall spend all before I die. (chuckles) Invest in book, that's all. I am insisting on this. But I am simply afraid if we have got enough stock, it may not be stolen and misused. Otherwise I want to immediately invest in books all the money that I have got.
Prabhupāda: That is Vṛndāvana life, either in rasa dance or the cowherd's play or killing the demons or in dining and dancing. The friends are eating, they are being stolen by Brahmā—but the center is Kṛṣṇa. That is Vṛndāvana. All activities are going on, just like in other place. But here in Vṛndāvana, all activities centered around Kṛṣṇa. When Brahmā is stealing His friends, the center is Kṛṣṇa. The demon is coming to destroy—the center is Kṛṣṇa. When there is forest fire, the center is Kṛṣṇa. This is Vṛndāvana beauty. In happiness, in danger, in perplexities, in friendship—everything Kṛṣṇa. Kāliya-damana. "Oh, Kṛṣṇa has gone to Yamunā. He has fallen down in the..., to fight the Kāliya." It is a very, what is called, calamity. But still, the center is Kṛṣṇa. This is the beauty of Vṛndāvana. "Kṛṣṇa has entered Yamunā to fight with Kāliya." It is not at all good news for Mother Yaśodā, Nanda, friends and family, not at all. Their life is lost. But still the Kṛṣṇa is center. This is Vṛndāvana life. In everything Kṛṣṇa is center, anything. We are having just like: "Kṛṣṇa's a bad propaganda," opposition.
Rāmeśvara: So Lord Caitanya's movement will actually reach that level.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam: (ISO 1) "Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa." We are all children. The America is protecting for Americans "No! No American. Let the Chinese. They are so well congested. The Indians, come on!" You came here. It is not your father's property. Why do you check others, rascal? You stolen this property from the Red Indians, and now you have become proprietor.
Prabhupāda: So why do you make...? Who...? Who do you mean by "we"? It is, everything, belonging to Kṛṣṇa. You have plundered Kṛṣṇa's property. You won't allow others to come in. The Chinese, the Indians, they are congested. Why? What do you mean by "we"? It is your father's property? You have stolen Kṛṣṇa's property.
Gurukṛpa: One may say, "But I myself work hard. Should I support the man who is lazy, doing nothing? Some are lazy. Should I work hard?"
Prabhupāda: Well, that is... If you are humanitarian, you are working for humanity, and why don't you teach them? Why do you not give the opportunity. What is the missionary? You have got so many missionaries. Why don't you feed them by giving them opportunity. They want. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). That is Vaiṣṇava. Engage everything, everyone, to good work. That is missionary. "We, you..." There is no such question, "we." We combining together, that is "we." We are all Kṛṣṇa's sons. Harer nāma, harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21). Their whole philosophy is... Oh, it is very nice beach. All mango trees... Don't think in national terms. That is very heinous.
Prabhupāda: Imperfect idea. He wanted to credit himself. He has stolen the idea from Padma Purāṇa and wanted to explain in his own way, imagination, speculation.
Bhāgavata: The actual evolution is that the soul goes...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bhāgavata: ...from the species, from one species to another in chronological order.
Gurukṛpa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, even if they... In all their researches, if they came across this information, I don't think they would reveal it to the world.
Prabhupāda: How they would reveal? They are thieves and rogues. Their idea is: three thousand years ago there was no civilization. This is their poor idea.
Prabhupāda: It is authorized from the Hindu religious point of view, and it is accepted by the world scholars. So they cannot deny. It is authorized, no, authorized; I can give any statement, and it is up to you to consider. But you have to consider whatever statement. And actually that is done. You have accused me that I have stolen your watch. This is your charge against me. First of all I say, "Oh, this is false charge. I never did it." Now you have to prove that I did it. Naturally this is done. Whatever charges you..., "I've never... I don't accept these charges." Otherwise where there is case? If you charge me with something and if I immediately accept, then where is the case? My statement will be "No, no, I never did so." Now you have to prove that "Yes, I did." That takes time. It is not so easy. You have to give witnesses. You have to give so many things that "Yes, I stole it." But my duty will be: as soon as you charge me, I will say, "No, I never did it." So whatever statement I give, you have to..., the judge has to accept and then scrutinize who is correct. The complainant is correct or the defendant is correct? That is his business.
Prabhupāda: Black snake, yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You helped him so many times.
Hari-śauri: He's a known thief, anyway.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This man stole from his father, and it is clear now that he joined this movement only to get an American woman and to go to America. I think he never had much intention to worship Kṛṣṇa. He's eating meat, and his wife... Even when they came to America he ordered is wife, "Now you cook meat." He looks very different now. He looks like a rākṣasa.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Feature is rākṣasa.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So they're getting this information, but what can they do? They're getting so much information from these devotees who have left.
Prabhupāda: What is that information?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're trying to find some imperfection, but they cannot.
Prabhupāda: We are not perfect. We're trying to be perfect.
Prabhupāda: That's it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...for the rest of the year.
Prabhupāda: That's it. That they actually do. With this festival, they collect. Whatever they collect, they spend twenty-five percent for the festival, and seventy-five percent they keep it for eating whole year. This is their business. That's a fact, they admit it. And they have no other source.
Hari-śauri: They're not very well supported now either.
Prabhupāda: Who knows them? Why they will be support it? My Guru Mahārāja used to, (Bengali): "A pandemonium of eating and sleeping. Joint mess." Joint mess, just without any Deity, nobody will pay. Therefore... Not for preaching. So make this program immediately. Bring huge quantity of books and distribute. And see that books are not wasted, not stolen, neglected. This is our life and soul property. Jaya. (end)
Prabhupāda: There are many places like India.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hawaii they could do, I think.
Prabhupāda: Hawaii, yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This Mr. Punja, I was talking with him. He had a... His suitcase was stolen in Calcutta.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Suitcase stolen?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Calcutta at the... There's a big hotel at the airport, and he left his bags there, three bags. And when he came back, one of them was gone with all of his wife's jewelries. Hindustan Hotel, I think it's called. Yeah, Hindustan, that big airport hotel. When you go down to Māyāpur by that road there's a big hotel near the airport.
Prabhupāda: I do not remember, but may be.
Prabhupāda: Hotel you should not go simply by locking. Somebody must be there. Otherwise they have got duplicate key.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They just stole the whole suitcase.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. They have got duplicate key. They can take.
Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's wondering about his Deities. I told him that the Deities are supposed to be ready by Gaura Pūrṇimā. You gave that time limit. He wanted to know what the size was and how many. So I knew there was Kāliya-Kṛṣṇa and four nāga-patnīs and Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa and Lalitā and Viśākhā and, I think I told him Gaura-Nitāi, Guru-Gaurāṅga, Gaura-Nitāi, and your deity and your Guru Mahārāja's deity. That makes thirteen.
Prabhupāda: So they are preparing?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think. Yes, they were told.
Hari-śauri: Rāmeśvara is supposed to be making all the arrangements.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Bharadvāja is preparing everything. He seems to be a good man.
Prabhupāda: Very good man.
Prabhupāda: Instead of keeping in the bank, keep books stock. It will save. That principles let us follow. Simply keep the book that it may not be spoiled, it may not be stolen. Otherwise it is our..., as good as government currency notes. Take that. As soon as there is money, convert it into books.
Harikeśa: I was thinking also that Gopāla Kṛṣṇa could buy the milk powder from Bali-mardana by printing books for him. He could print the books in India for Australia...
Prabhupāda: I have suggested already, already suggested that "Take milk powder and ghee from Australia, and every center distribute prasādam like anything." And in India at least, if you give them nice puri and chānā preparation and sweet preparation from milk, oh, they'll be so glad, both poor man and rich man. Yesterday I was eating kacuris. What is this kacuri? Made of ghee. Samosā, made of ghee; rasagullā, made of... Cow is so important. She can deliver so many nice preparations, sweet and salty. The whole world does not know how to eat. Like rākṣasas they are killing the poor animals. So we have to teach. This is an introduction of new type of civilization for making life successful.
Prabhupāda: Formerly India was very advanced in devotion.
Mr. Dwivedi: And just near there is moving door, shutting door. It has got nine pillars. If you just push one pillar, the entire structure shifts. And the pity is the archaeological department of government of India has taken no care about this. We had some good statue of Buddha and Mahāvīra and... Two, three were stolen away. We collected at our own institution. Then ultimately I wrote to government. I said, "Already some statue have been stolen away. You kindly left it wherever you like. We can't protect them from thieves." Just three months back. Then they took away another three statue, one of Viṣṇu, one of Buddha, another of Mahāvīra.
Prabhupāda: Stone?
Mr. Dwivedi: One big, one were stolen. Three... I asked government. I asked them three times. Government has not yet taken them away from there. Otherwise we had collected it at our own headquarters and institute.
Prabhupāda: Stole?
Rāmeśvara: "Sold."
Prabhupāda: Sold.
Rāmeśvara: "...or any way shall the ownership or the assets of the trust be alienated or disposed of. This clause cannot be revoked or amended under any circumstance. Section 5: Management of the Trust. The trustees who have herein been designated are appointed for life. In the event of the death or failure to act for any reason of any of the said trustees a successor trustee or trustees may be appointed by the remaining trustees, with never less than three or more than five trustees acting at one time."
Prabhupāda: And the majority decision should be always accepted.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Did you know him, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: No. He was also older than our father. But I have seen him in childhood, when I was ten, twelve years old. Very intelligent man, soft speaker. His... This Marconi's theory is his theory. The wireless... The thief has taken. They have stolen. And the British government gave credit to Marconi. He was very sad.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That everybody knows.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The wireless, there was a system. That was his discovery. He was very sorry. The British government stole the idea and gave the credit to Marconi. The Britishers, they always wanted to minimize the value of India, that "They are not civilized. We are present there to make them civilized."
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very... The English were expert in diplomacy.
Prabhupāda: Therefore they paid.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Did you ever go to the zoo in Central Park? Central Park you would go to also?
Prabhupāda: Alone.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Were you doing any translation work at that time?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes, you said. Then your typewriter was stolen.
Prabhupāda: I purchased one tape recorder, some fifty dollars...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What were you going to do with the tape recorder?
Prabhupāda: I was recording.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then who would type?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You were recording your translation.
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who would do the typing?
Prabhupāda: I was doing.
Yaśodānandana: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)
Prabhupāda: You open the door and close. And keep open. Why it is... (break) They will close the closet, and I'll open the door. Close it and go on, open and go on, throne, this... (Hindi) Very well. (break) There is a agent preparing the stolen papers.(?) That now...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Every time I go to the marketplace... (break)
Prabhupāda: And well done, to the next fair(?). What I have got? In the Deity room silver stand, silver lamp, silver plate. I do not find this. (break) ...is known there.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. Seems like more varieties of living entities take birth in Bhāratavarṣa than anywhere else. I don't find... So many different kinds of bugs are there. Here every day a new bug comes out, new type of bug.
Prabhupāda: Not new. You see new. They are all existing.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They hatch. (end)
Bhakti-prema: But there was no Atlantic Ocean, Indian Oceans, no. But after that, there were sixteen thousand sons of Sagara Mahārāja. Then their sacrificial hearth was stolen by Indra. So it was put somewhere in the earth folds. They began to dig the earth to find out that hearth. So they dug other oceans, (indistinct) Kapila Muni (indistinct), and it explains the curse(?) that he is the chief. And then there's...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says here that "Only our knowledge of the crust of the earth is based on direct observation, but studies of paths of earthquake waves..." Then it goes... The only way they can understand is by direct observation. And that's very limited. Says, "All the planets were probably formed at much the same time." It doesn't sound like they have very much knowledge, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Everything is "probably," "maybe." Says that "Probably all the planets were formed at much the same time from the same great dust cloud." After you create this planetarium, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they'll have to rewrite all of these books. These businesses...
Bhakti-prema: Another book has to be written. Its name should be Easy-to-Read Geography or Advanced Geography. And also about history we have to write. Your Divine Grace will write Advanced History, and there the complete lifetime of Manus and Indras should be given.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: According to the modern thinkers, any further back than about three or four thousand years ago, everyone was living in the caves. So they think that all of our books are mythology, some dreamt-up stories by some people...
Prabhupāda: So how they are writing of millions of years ago?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is all according to their mythology.
Prabhupāda: No, they are suggesting.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And, of course, they say that there were no humans around, just dust and water and earth. There were no brains at that time.
Prabhupāda: Only brains are developed now.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I didn't notice. Here's a little news clipping. It's probably the same. You probably have seen this already. This is from Indian Express. "Why Krishna Mandir Men Fired Salvo." By a... "An attack on the devotees and destruction of the premises of ISKCON Māyāpur Chandrodaya Mandir, West Bengal, led to the shooting incident, according to Mr. Gopāla Kṛṣṇa Dāsa, Secretary, Bombay center of the organization. Mr. Dāsa, in his statement issued on Monday, said the news from their sources in Bengal stated that on July 8th about fifty miscreants were found encroaching on our agricultural field and stealing our crops. When a devotee requested them to stop, they became angry and beat him up, fracturing his skull. Nearly 250 supporters of the miscreants..." Notice how they're not going to use "Muslims." They say "miscreants." They don't say "Muslims." Probably the paper wants to avoid. This is a hot issue. No one wants to write "Hindu-Muslim." "Nearly 250 supporters of the miscreants armed with sticks and spears suddenly appeared from behind the bushes and all of them entered the temple area. Mr. Dāsa said the miscreants beat several more devotees, including the Gurukula school headmaster, whose both hands and skull were broken. They also stripped naked a female disciple. They cut off electrical connections, telephone lines and water pipes. The police did not come for two hours, and meanwhile the group destroyed the gate, broke windows and stole two bulls. According to ISKCON Secretary, as a final resort, one ran for a gun, appropriately licensed and registered with the government, and fired a shot in the air. As the group persisted, he fired again into the ground which injured eleven of the miscreants. All of those injured have been discharged from the hospital." They're not injured seriously at all. "Mr. Dāsa said the police advised the devotees to go to the Krishnanagar police station to report the incident, and when they did go there they were arrested. Two devotees in critical condition were also detained in the jail hospital. Asked why our men have been kept in jail, the police replied, 'As a precaution.' "
Prabhupāda: This report is already there.
Prabhaviṣṇu: Yes. Then we can export the books also into West Bengal.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In this way organize these two places with the courage of an Englishman and the heart of a Bengali mother. And we should ventilate in the papers that this Indian investment of American money is not American money. It is my money. I have written books, laboring whole night. The American boys have cooperated with me by printing, by distributing, and the money was received by selling the books. So the books are mine. I have given to the society. So I have done business, regular, in foreign countries. I have earned money and spending the same money in my country. It is not American money. It is my money. I have done business. That's all. It is a credit for Indian son so to do such tremendous business and bring money for investing in his own country, from the national point of view... Why the...? The Americans are not claiming that this is their money. They are my disciples; they are cooperating with me. Actually it is a business. I have done business, I have earned money and brought it at home to spend. Everyone does. They should not misunderstand that I have stolen money from America and brought it. It is fair business. That's all. Ventilate this. They are under impression that the American government is supplying, the World Bank is supplying. Nobody is supplying. I am earning money by business, by my hard labor.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I think this can be given to the Deities.
Prabhupāda: It can be given everything.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Providing they can keep.
Hari-śauri: That's the problem. Everything that's expensive here gets stolen.
Prabhupāda: So many things have been stolen.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then let Kīrtanānanda offer it to his Deity. But the checks I think can be deposited in your account. And these jewels can be given to Rādhā-Vṛndāvanacandra.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Rādhā-Vṛndāvana...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That will be nice. These jeweled boxes should be given to Rādhā-Vṛndāvanacandra?
Prabhupāda: Everything.
Prabhupāda: So the word meaning you'll be able to translate into English?
Pradyumna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Then I can explain the translation.
Pradyumna: Yes.
Prabhupāda: The... Kṛṣṇa has become everything. After Brahmā has stolen the original cowherds boys and cows and calves, Kṛṣṇa has expanded Himself. So on account of Kṛṣṇa's expansion, the cowherdsmen got a special attraction. First of all they were angry. The cowherdsmen were on the top of the hill. They did not like to come down. But on account of Kṛṣṇa, the boys were very, very attracted, and they immediately come down with special affection. Is it explained?
Pradyumna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: It will help? Eh?
Pradyumna: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: So you can do that.
Prabhupāda: No, just explain it. These were happening by the yogamāyā's manipulations. It is not generally happening, but on account of yogamāyā, it was so happening. Two māyās are working under the direction of Kṛṣṇa: the mahāmāyā, this material world; and yogamāyā, the spiritual world. So this uncommon thing was happening on account of yogamāyā's influence.
Pradyumna: (Sanskrit-tatra to abhūt)
Prabhupāda: So on account of activity of yogamāyā, the day on which Brahmā stolen, and they could not understand how yogamāyā was working. Uncommon thing happening.
Pradyumna: (Sanskrit-kintu to nābhūt)
Prabhupāda: So yogamāyā was acting in such a way that even Balarāma could not understand.
Pradyumna: (Sanskrit-varṣa-paryantam to avasīyate)
Prabhupāda: So as yogamāyā gradually withdrew her action, then others could understand, especially Balarāma, and inquired from Kṛṣṇa. So next?
Pradyumna: Kim etad adbhutam iva vāsudeve 'khilātmani vrajasya sātmanas... (SB 10.13.36)
Prabhupāda: One thing, you can keep open my Tenth Canto, Kṛṣṇa.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: What I'm saying it's very good. A thousand Gītās in two months is very good. Now I'm expanding this to the Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Unless you have good godown, it will be stolen and sold in the market at cheap price.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. A good godown is very, very necessary, so we're starting work on it right away. And in three to four months it will be completed.
Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Can you turn onto your back again so I can do your other leg and your arms?
Prabhupāda: Hm. You can turn me any way. Deal with the Home Minister's letter very carefully.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Deal with the Home Minister's letter very carefully.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Actually the first meeting I had with him was very, very nice, by your grace. He took great interest. He called me for one minute, and he sat down for twenty minutes with me. So... Now, actually, it is his secretary who is handling it. The big thing is getting his approval, which we already have. Now we are dealing with the secretary in the Ministry of Home Affairs.
Prabhupāda: A set of book Hindi may be taken there to the secretary.
Prabhupāda: Oh!
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: In various stages of production. Printing or composing or color... In the next two months, twenty-two books are coming out. By the end of December there will be twenty-two books given to you.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Now you must have good godown. Otherwise books will be stolen.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: At the market.
Prabhupāda: And market it will be sold at cheap rate. Then it will reduce its importance.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That was happening in Calcutta many...
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: I also got the loan for the godown. So in November we are starting construction of the BBT godown in Bombay.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That four lakhs, two lakhs was for the godown and two lakhs for book printing.
Prabhupāda: Money you'll get. There is no scarcity. Ātreya Ṛṣi will give you.
| Page Title: | Stolen (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 21 of Mar, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=97, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 97 |