Prabhupāda: Why should you manufacture liquor? Why should you manufacture slaughterhouse? We don't eat meat. Are we dying ninety percent of Indian population, they don't eat meat. They're simply vegetarian. Yes. And you can see how they are healthy. They cannot get sufficient food, that is different thing. That is maladministration. Kṛṣṇa has given sufficient food for all the people of the world. Somewhere the foodstuff is being thrown in the sea, and somewhere people are starving. This is want of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If a man becomes, if the president becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious president, then he'll think "This foodstuff is Kṛṣṇa's. It is not our result. So Kṛṣṇa claims all living entities as His sons. So we are sons of God, and the Indians or other poverty-stricken countries, they are also sons of God. So if we have got enough, why not send there?" Why you are putting the foodstuff, which no human being can produce, you are throwing it in the water. This is lack of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness education is greatly needed for human society. Do you follow, Guru dāsa?
Starvation (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: We don't eat meat. Are we dying ninety percent of Indian population, they don't eat meat. They're simply vegetarian. Yes. And you can see how they are healthy. They cannot get sufficient food, that is different thing. That is maladministration. Kṛṣṇa has given sufficient food for all the people of the world. Somewhere the foodstuff is being thrown in the sea, and somewhere people are starving. This is want of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If a man becomes, if the president becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious president, then he'll think "This foodstuff is Kṛṣṇa's. It is not our result. So Kṛṣṇa claims all living entities as His sons.
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: In God's kingdom there is wheat, there is rice, there is water, rainfall, and the production. Everything is there. There is fruit, there is flower. So either you be religious or not religious, it doesn't matter. Your economic problem is settled already. Just like in the prisonhouse, they are all criminals. That does not mean they will starve to death. The government has all arrangement to feed them. Similarly, although this material world is prisonhouse, all criminals are here, revolt, to a person are here, those who do not care for God. But still, their fooding problem, their lodging problem is there by arrangement of God.
Prabhupāda: When the cause is there, they throw it, everything, and go away. Similarly, this material world, the activities of the material world is like that. Somewhere digging and somewhere piling. Somebody is independent and somebody is dependent. Somebody is very luxurious, somebody's starving. So there cannot be any adjustment. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā the Lord says, duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). We are digging somewhere and piling somewhere; so digging is also labor, and piling is also labor.
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: The other day I was reading in the, that paper, Moscow News, there was a congress, Communist congress, and the president declared that "We are ready to get others' experience to improve." So I think the Vedic concept of socialism or communism will much improve the idea of communism. Just like we are thinking in terms of human beings, the commu..., socialistic state, that "Nobody should starve. Everyone must have his food." And in the Vedic conception of gṛhastha, householder, it is recommended there that a householder shall see that even a lizard living in the room or even a snake living in that house should not starve. They should be also given food. And what to speak of others?
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Viṣaya, these physical necessities, the devotee is advised to accept the necessities of life without any attachment. Physical law is take the boiled water, but if boiled water is not available, does it mean he'll not drink water? If it is not available, you drink ordinary water. (break) We take Kṛṣṇa-prasādam. But while in touring, in hotels sometimes we have to take some food in the hotel. Does it mean, "Oh, I do not take any foodstuff from the hotel, I shall starve"? If I starve, then I'll be weak, I cannot preach.
Prabhupāda: Just like a gang of thieves gives a signboard, "Goodman and Company." A gang of thieves are giving signboard, "Goodman and Company." You sometimes find such signboard.
Śyāmasundara: Our landlord in San Francisco temple, his name was Goodman.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Their philosophy is that the animal, when it is not properly nourished that is cruelty. Therefore instead of allowing to starve, better kill him. Like that, theory. Is it not?
Prabhupāda: Just like I'm living in this house. I shall have to take care even for one lizard, that is also living entity. I shall have to take care of one rat, one mouse, even one snake, if he's living in one's house. That is spiritual community. The idea is nobody should starve. I have to see whether the leader is also given proper food. Just like people generally save foodstuff from the attack of other animals. But spiritual communism... (break) We ought to make them happy.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Umāpati: The same scientists will point to India and say, "Look at all the dying and starving people over there."
Prabhupāda: No, no, why Indians? We are talking of the whole world. Why you take the example of the Indians? Indians may be backward. We are talking of you, so forward. What you have done? Indians may be backward. We are not talking of any particular nation or particular people. We are talking of general people, people in general. India, why bring India?
Prabhupāda: Śūdra. Unless he gets that post, he'll starve. He has got some talent in some particular subject but he must get some service. By serving others, he'll be able to utilize his talent and get some money, then he'll eat. This is śūdra's business.
Prabhupāda: Real education is how to solve the problems of life, birth, death, old age, and how to go back to home, back to... That is education. This is not education. This is simply waste of time. Because you cannot change your destiny. Now, take for example, there are so many agricultural improvements. Does it mean that there is no person who is needy? There are so many needy persons. But has the agricultural education improved their lot? No. Starving people are still there. Rather, those who can produce, they're producing and throwing into the sea. They'll not part with it for the poor men who are starving. Then where is the advancement of education? You produce more by advanced agricultural process and then throw it into the ocean. Real purpose was to produce more to see that nobody's hungry. That is not being done. There is no sympathy. This is not civilization.
Haṁsadūta: They always argue that "In India they should kill the cows and eat them, and then they would not starve" because they're so foolish.
Prabhupāda: You have got your natural teeth? Your teeth?
Lord Brockway: No, not natural.
Prabhupāda: Not natural.
Yogeśvara: Then he made the point that in a place like India it's foolish where so many people are dying of starvation, not to kill the cow on some religious principle.
Prabhupāda: That is another story. No Indians are dying, not by eating cow's flesh. That, that is the theory at the present moment given. But there are so many vegetarians in India. They do not touch even fish, or eggs, or animal flesh. They're quite healthy.
Prabhupāda: No, no. That is artificial. That is artificial. We are not concerned with artificial things. Just like you require to eat. Now artificially you can increase so many things for eating purposes. But you must eat. That is the economic question. It is not that you should starve. It is not our proposal that you become Kṛṣṇa conscious by starving. No. You must have sufficient necessities of life.
Prabhupāda: Everything, I have explained. Now our socialist idea is: God is the father of all living beings. And whatever there is on the surface of the globe, on the sea, on the sky, everything belongs to God. And all the sons of God has equal right to enjoy it. But nobody... (aside:) He is finished? But nobody is allowed to take more than he requires. If one takes more than he requires, he's to be punished. This is our socialist idea. As we think all living entities sons of God, therefore even a lizard in my room should not starve.
Bhagavān: He should not starve is the point.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bhagavān: He should not be allowed to go hungry.
Prabhupāda: Even a snake is there, he should not also starve. He must have food. We do not support such rascal philosophy that you give food to the man, and send the animals to the slaughterhouse. We do not support this rascaldom, our philosophy is: as human being has got the right to take share of God's property and live, similarly all other living entities, they have got right.
Guest (Indian man): ...Yes, yes. I ask him why, after such a long lapse of time we could see this trait of Hindu dharma.
Prabhupāda.: Yes. Not Hindu dharma.
Guest (1): Or Vedic dharma.
Prabhupāda: ...but spiritual, satisfaction of spiritual starvation. Because we are spiritual beings. That I was trying to explain. That we have bodily necessities, at the same time we have spiritual necessities. This Western civilization, they are simply after the bodily necessities. Just like here is a qualified medical man. He's made... What for, medical man? He knows how to satisfy the medical necessities of the body. He has no information of the spirit soul. Is it not a fact? Have you got any idea what is spirit soul?
Guest (2) (Indian Doctor): Not from the medical knowledge, certainly not.
Prabhupāda: God is not poor. Ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇa. Six kinds of opulence fully. So why are you talking of this over-population, scarcity of food? Why? Actually the father is God. He's maintaining. And factually we see how many human beings, civilized human beings, are there. The other living beings are many hundred thousand times bigger quantity. If they can be maintained by God, what we have done, that He'll not maintain us? He'll maintain us. He's maintaining. So many people they say, "India is starving." I am Indian. I never see any man starving and died. I've never seen. This is simply advertisement. What is your opinion?
Ambassador: There is poverty.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Ambassador: There is poverty.
Prabhupāda: Poverty, there is poverty in other countries also.
Prabhupāda: Oh, where we are getting money? Where we are getting money? Just like In London, George Harrison has given us a house, fifty-five lakhs worth. So if I wanted to possess this house by doing this business, three lifetimes would have been required. Not even three lifetimes. We are spending like anything. But we have no stock. We do not know what we shall eat tomorrow morning. We do not know. It is our position. We do not know what I shall eat tomorrow or this evening. But do you think we are starving? We have no problem.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Here it is. Kṛṣṇa is giving opportunity of eating for the cats and dogs, the birds and beasts, and I am engaged in His service, He'll not give me food? Because we are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, therefore we are thinking, "If I do not work like these cats and dogs, I'll starve." That is my imperfect Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And perfect Kṛṣṇa consciousness means he knows that "I have engaged my life in Kṛṣṇa's business. Kṛṣṇa is..., Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. He's feeding millions and millions of living entities. And he'll keep me starving?" Is it possible? That means he, he does not know what is Kṛṣṇa. He's thinking Kṛṣṇa is a fictitious thing. That is his position. He does not know what is Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...then they would have been confident, "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is feeding everyone. Why not me? What I have done? Because I am engaged in His service, therefore I shall starve?" And the devotee has no such question also, whether he'll starve or eat. It doesn't matter if he starves. It doesn't matter. He thinks, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa has put me in this position, to starve." Just like in hospital. A patient is ordered by the physician: "You should not eat anything." So he knows, "It is good for me." Similarly, a devotee, when he's starving, he knows, "Kṛṣṇa has put me in this starving condition. It is good for me." He never complains.
Guest (1): But what should be the first step to become a devotee.
Prabhupāda: Yes, dadāti. That I have already explained. Dadāti. He must give. Give. Everyone goes to God to beg, "God, give us our daily bread." But one must go to God to give Him. If I do not give bread to Kṛṣṇa, he will be starving. This is devotee's mentality. Yaśodāmāyī, Yaśodāmāyī is thinking, Kṛṣṇa, "If I do not feed Kṛṣṇa well, my child will die." This is devotion. Otherwise everyone is asking from Kṛṣṇa.
Guest (3): Now people... There are drought conditions, people are starving. Cattles are dying. There are no rains.
Prabhupāda: Yes, because they are not God conscious, they are thinking like that. Now, suppose in the hospital, there are many patients. They are starving, many patients in the hospital. Do you know that or not? So why don't you give them food? They are starving. Why? Why don't you go to the hospital and you'll find hundreds of patients, they are starving... So similarly, why you are bothering? You are not bothering the hospital because you know that is right, they are starving. That is the physician's prescription. They must starve. So if you know God, then you will understand that you cannot help anyone. They are put into the starving condition under certain condition. So you cannot help them. You are simply thinking that "I will help." There are hundreds and thousands, millions of people starving. What you can do? Even if you try to give some something. Just like this Vivekananda philosophy, daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā, to serve the poor Nārāyaṇa. Nārāyaṇa has become poor. These are manufactured things.
Prabhupāda: Therefore in Vedic culture, other section, the kṣatriyas and the vaiśyas, they would call the brāhmaṇas to take food. Brāhmaṇa-bhojana. Because they know, "The brāhmaṇas, they will starve; still they will not ask anybody to give him food." Therefore brāhmaṇa-bhojana. And now they have discovered daridra-nārāyaṇa-bhojana. There are so many things. Vedic culture is the perfect for human society, perfect culture. And this is not bogus humbug, go into the darkness and do something nonsense.
Karandhara: The saying is "Even the pauper is proud of his penny."
Prabhupāda: Yes. He is also... You see... In Vṛndāvana I showed you? The dogs were starving, but as soon as he gets another female dog, oh, he is satisfied. To have sex. Oh. You see. So is that satisfaction? He is starving. The belly has gone down, and still, he is satisfied with sex. You see.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's called illusion.
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is illusion. Actually, he is not satisfied.
Karandhara: You once gave the example, Prabhupāda of the drunkards in New York.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Karandhara: If they just get a bottle of wine they are satisfied even though they are freezing and starving and have no place to stay.
Prabhupāda: Yes, they are satisfied. Real satisfaction will prevail when one knows God. That is real satisfaction. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). A devotee will see how by God's design the sea is working, how the sky is staying, how the sun is rising. He is satisfied, "Oh, how my Lord is great, how He has arranged." That is satisfaction.
Prabhupāda: "If you want to stop this chaotic condition, then accept Me that I am the enjoyer and proprietor of this whole world, and I am your real friend. Let the business be done on My account, you take your right salaries, you be happy, and there will be no chaotic condition." But here the position is that everyone is thinking proprietor, and as far as possible, he is taking all the money, and other is starving. He is not getting his salary even. So he also, because he is weak, he cannot steal. The stronger, he is stealing. There is fight.
Prabhupāda: Everything is God's property. You take your share. You have got right. Just like a father and the son. There are ten sons. Everyone has got the right to share the property of the father, but as the father gives, not that I take away the whole property and others, brothers, may starve. That is not allowed. That is criminal.
Karandhara: Well, they say there are discrepancies in that supply. Some people starve to death and freeze to death.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is not discrepancy. Just like a mother, when the child is diseased, "Ah, don't take. You cannot take. You must starve." If he thinks it is discrepancy, that is his foolishness.
Karandhara: Well, just like that one Indian chemist Svarūpa Dāmodara brought. He said that philosophy is killing India. People just sit by and watch each other die instead of trying to help each other.
Prabhupāda: No, that he is rascal. No Indian is dying. We are going three times, four times India. Who is dying? Everyone is dying natural death. This is all propaganda, to make their position secure. That's all. I have never seen anyone dying for starvation. I have pointed out so many times that fifty years ago this class of men lying on the footpath... Now the foodgrains has risen price fifty times. Still he is living. Still he is living. But he has to live in that condition. Although he must have increased his income, otherwise how he is purchasing foodstuff, fifty times? But in spite of his increasing income, he must live like that. Apart from India. Why, in your country or in Europe, so many hippies are lying? Why? They have no want.
Karandhara: But not as many.
Prabhupāda: Oh, you have not seen Amsterdam. Full, one big park, hundreds and thousands hippies are lying on the ground. Hundreds and thousands. You have been in Amsterdam? I have seen it personally.
Karandhara: Yeah. But not like India where there is millions of people...
Prabhupāda: No, no, India you will not find that in the park hundreds and thousands are lying. You never find.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It is just like the concept that if God is all-merciful, why He is so impartial, somebody making happy, somebody making suffering?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is mercifulness. Just like when doctor says, "You don't take anything today. You fast," that is mercy. That is mercy. It is good for him. By starving, he will be cured. That is mercy. And according to Manu-saṁhitā, when a man is hanged, that is mercy. If he is hanged... He has committed murder. He should be hanged so all his sinful reaction finished. Otherwise next birth, he has to suffer. He has to be killed by somebody else.
Karandhara: Well, that is why they say we must work to help poor people and starving people.
Prabhupāda: Why poor people? You starve. You are already yourself a poor people. How you can help them?
Karandhara: No, they say if we find poor and starving people, we must go and feed them.
Prabhupāda: So you feed them. But we also feed them. But we feed them with Kṛṣṇa prasādam. That is the difference. You do this. That will be actually beneficial. By distributing Kṛṣṇa's prasādam, you will be benefited, they will be benefited.
Prabhupāda: Then what is the use? Because under democratic government, your order is not final. So if the people are demons, then what you will do? You cannot do anything. Therefore the people's mentality, consciousness, should be changed by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. When they become God conscious, Kṛṣṇa conscious, they will select Kṛṣṇa conscious president. Then everything finished. Formerly people used to accept the king as the final authority, but at this present moment, that is not accepted. People must accept. Now it is people's government. So unless people are God conscious, you cannot find good government. In comparison to other governments, your government is far better. People here (are) not starving.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In other governments the people are starving. They have no food. That is the worst government. First necessity of life, that one must eat, one must have shelter, but other governments cannot even do that. But in your country, you have got enough food, enough shelter, everything is there. That consideration, your government is very nice government. Bare necessities of life must be supplied. Here the fault is extravagancy.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: With simply negative, what you'll do? Simply negative? You must give something positive. Then you'll be satisfied. You are serving somewhere. You don't get sufficient salary. So you desire to give up this, this service. Resignation. But if you don't get any better service, then what will be the result of resignation? You'll starve. Again you'll go, "Master, I did wrong. Please give me that service." So that is... The Māyāvādīs' position is like that. They want to become merged into the Supreme. But that is not possible.
Prabhupāda: What posterity. You cannot take help from your machine. What posterity you will take? It is nonsense. You are starving, and you, you want to speak that "I will distribute prasādam." What is this nonsense? You are starving, and you are proud of distributing food to others. Is that very good reason, a reasonable proposal? What...? First of all, you stop your starvation. Then you can say, "Now I have stopped my starvation. I'll distribute food to the hungry men."
Prabhupāda: The rascal, being bewildered by, he's thinking, "Without me, everything will be spoiled. I am the director. I am the director!" So I requested Gandhi, "Now you come out of this turmoil, politics. Just preach Bhagavad-gītā." No. He'll be killed. That's all. This is the way. Going on. Even a Gandhi commits mistake, what to speak of others. What is the effect of this sva-rājya. The effect of sva-rājya is that people are starving. That's all. At least, British government would not allow like this. That's a fact.
Guest (2): Take this beedie out. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. She was telling.
Prabhupāda: Just see. "He's smoking beedie." This man became little ashamed. "Yes, my girl, I'll give it up by and by." She was surprised that a man is smoking. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa... (break) ...dṛḍha-vrata, vows, very rigidly. Bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ. So if I'm unable, there is no need of starving. No. Because if you become diseased, then your bhajana will be hampered. So you can do it.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) (break) ...the anxiety of Prahlāda Mahārāja, "How these rascals, who have made a plan for happiness of a few men, gorgeous plan." And they're... For happiness of the government servant. That's all. You know in Delhi there is Planning Commission? What is that plan? That people may starve, and Indira Gandhi and company may flourish. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Machine. And he's very expert. He'll take three thousand dollars. And others will be unemployed. This is going on. And they are thinking: "Advancement of civilization." Advancement of civilization means "Exploit others and you become happy." This is advancement of civilization. "Others may die for such, out of starvation, and one man takes all the money and spends it for wine and women and motor car." That's all. This is advancement of civilization.
Dr. Patel: Americans are very clever at using money.
Prabhupāda: Yes. They have made a clique with the managers of the foundation, and they present by literature all lies. The subject matter is India. "Oh, so many people are starving, so many..." In this way they take money from the managers, and it is divided amongst themselves.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Tapasi, tapasya. There are many, they are very much addicted to tapasya, suska tapasya. Śūṣka tapasya. There are many stages. Unnecessarily starving, fasting, unnecessarily.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) We also say that "You take advantage of this, and also produce sufficient food grains so that people may not starve." Parjanyād anna-sambhavaḥ. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Unless there is sufficient grain... People are giving more stress how to produce machine, but they are not giving any stress how to produce foodstuff. So many land are lying vacant. You go in India. So many lands. Not only in India. In other countries also. In England also we have seen. They are not taking care. Because it is very troublesome to put... "Better start a factory and get money easily."
Prabhupāda: There was a cartoon. When I... One leader is approached for food, that "We are in scarcity of food." The leader says, "Of course, it is very difficult to assure you for food grains. But from next week you will have television." (laughter) Next week you will have television. So these improvements are going on, television, but they are starving. This is going on. Advancement of knowledge and learning is going on in discovering television, but there is no food. This is the mismanagement of the leaders. Dishonest. There is enough food. Punjab still produces food grains. Bengal still produces rice, but they are stocked by government men, and they are mishandling. They are lying on the station for dispatch, but they will not be dispatched. They are rotting. Rainy season spoiled the whole stock; still, they are not dispatched. Official: "There is no dispatch order. There is no wagons available." Simply mismanagement or bribe. This is going on. And people are suffering.
Bhagavān: Now they have... the other day in the paper that India exploded its first atomic bomb.
Prabhupāda: Yes, and therefore yet it has become very great.
Yogeśvara: Now its in the top six.
Prabhupāda: But there is no food. Never mind, you starve, but get your atom bomb. That's all. This is civilization. There was a cartoon. Somebody approached some politician, and he said, "Yes, I know there is food problem. So I cannot say what can I do for you, but from next week, you will have television." This is their program, "From next week you will have television." As if television will minimize my hunger. This is the civilization.
Satsvarūpa: They say, "Look, all these people are starving and these people have all the money. Let us make it equal. And the people become slave..."
Prabhupāda: But that is not being done. Therefore I said... I go to their country. "Why in your country there is inequality? Why in your country?" That was my point. "Why you have made a class of men as manager and a class of men as worker?" Nobody wants to be worker.
Haihaya: The communists asked to us what we do for the starving people.
Prabhupāda: Rascal, what you have done? You are simply talking. What you have done? There are so many starving people all over the world. What you have done? "Starving people." I have seen. They cannot give starving people. Just like we went to Russia. So we wanted rice. There is no rice. There was no good rice. We wanted fruit. There was no fruit. So what you have done? I am starving for fruit and rice. You cannot supply me. That is practical. I have seen it. They will offer, "Take this beef instead of fruit." Then I will starve. So what he has done for me? I am starving. I cannot take beef. I want rice, but you cannot supply me. That I have seen. One Madrasi gentleman was bringing rice for me. It could not be purchased in the market. There is no fruit. So if I want fruit and rice and if you give me beef, it is as good as if I want bread, if you give me stone. So where is the capacity to satisfy the starving? I am starving for rice. You cannot give me. Why do you propose like that, that you can satisfy the starving man. You cannot do that. You are talking nonsense. Can you satisfy everyone? Somebody is starving for knowledge. So how you can... This bluff will not satisfy him. So where is the question of starving, satisfying the starving? It is not possible. Unless he is satisfied, nobody can satisfy others. That satisfaction is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. "I am fully satisfied. I don't want." Where is the satisfaction? You cannot satisfy everyone. That is not possible. In Russia, there are so many unsatisfied people, so many millions. Where they are satisfied? If you think that "You must eat what I give you," that is not my satisfaction. That is your satisfaction. So where is the question of satisfying the starving? How it is possible? You cannot force me to do something and say, "Be satisfied." That is not possible. If you satisfy me as I want, then you can satisfy me. Are they able to do this? Then where is the question of...?
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Especially in the western countries, Śrīla Prabhupāda, the people do not like to think that they are controlled or that they are...
Prabhupāda: Therefore they are rascals. He is controlled in every step, and he is thinking... Therefore rascals. In spite of this big, big house, nice road and good car, they are rascals. But he thinks falsely. He thinks that he is independent; He will not die. Then why does he think like that, like a foolish man? As soon as māyā kicks on his face, he will die. That's all. Immediately. "I have got some business, sir." "No, no, you must die immediately." And still, he thinks that he is not controlled. What is this nonsense? We shall go that side? That is knowledge, that "In spite of my all so-called advancement of civilization, I am controlled." That is knowledge. That is the beginning of knowledge. Then he should think how to get out of it. That is intelligence. And if, like cats and dogs, he thinks that "I am not controlled," then he is no better than cats and dogs. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni (BG 3.27). By prakṛti, by nature, he is pulled by the ears, "Come here!" "Yes, sir." "Come there!" "Yes, sir." And he is thinking, not controlled. As soon as he eats little more than he requires, "You must starve three days!" And he is not controlled. Just see. How much foolishness. And they are getting Nobel Prize.
Yogeśvara: That how can we say that to give people..., that the only real problem is to give knowledge. There are people who are starving; there are people who are sick; there are people who are in so much distress.
Prabhupāda: But you cannot do. You cannot do. There are so many people starving in the hospital. What can you do?
Yogeśvara: He says, "Probably not very much." He said, "But maybe we can do something."
Prabhupāda: Then this is simply a false pride, that "I can do something." You cannot do anything. Rather, you can do this service, that "There is God. You are servant of God. Please become servant of God." And if you make this program, "I can give food to so many," what you can do? There are millions and millions. People are starving all over the world. What can you do? It is simply false pride. You cannot do anything. Now, just like I have heard that in your country, because they have got excess milk supply there was recommendation to kill twenty thousand cows. Is it a fact?
Guru-gaurāṅga: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So is it very good intelligence? Because there is excess of milk supply, why not supply it to others who are starving for milk?
Prabhupāda: Religious people wants to keep the situation? Starving? Starving situation?
Prabhupāda: No, no. By controlling the senses, gradually the mind will be controlled. You know. In the..., the tiger and the lion trained up to play in the circus, do you know how it is done?
Dhanañjaya: They starve the animals.
Prabhupāda: No.
Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: They feed them every time, whenever they do something.
Prabhupāda: No, after catching them from the forest, they kept within the bars, and no eating for at least one week. Then the trainer comes. Only whips. He comes, and open the doors and only: (makes sound) Flosh, flosh, flosh. So already he's hungry, weak, and he's whipped. In this way, he becomes fearful. As soon as the man comes, he becomes fearful. Then he gives him little food. In this way, after all it is animal, he thinks that "This man is my God. He can save me. He can kill me." Then he takes to him. Whatever he says, he takes. Similarly, if you do not give the ingredients for sense enjoyment, the mind will be controlled. That is the beginning.
Prabhupāda: Hm. And people are starving for want of. There was a cartoon that some public came to some minister: "Sir, we are starving. Give us our food." So the reply was: "Of course, that's a problem, food problem. But I can assure you that from next week you'll have television." (laughter) These rascals are like that. "Next, from next week, you'll have television, atom bomb. Never mind. Starve." (laughter) So that is also becoming fool's paradise.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest (4): I mean the figures which are published that half of humanity will starve.
Prabhupāda: It's... Especially, we are Indian. It is advertised that we are poverty-stricken. All over the world this is advertised. Wherever I go, they say, "Oh, you are coming from India?" (laughter) Because they are simply begging, the government. But who is dying? There is... Dying is going on, but that death is going on in other countries also. They are dying, committing suicide. And maybe some persons are dying out of starvation. You cannot stop death. Suppose you have got enough food. That means that everything is solved? In America there is enough food. Why they are coming hippies? There is no shortage of food. Nothing... Everything is abundant, but why they are becoming hippies? They are lying down on the street, on the park and I have seen in London, the St. James Park. They are sleeping, and the police is kicking: "Hey! Get up! Get up!" So why? The English nation is not poor nation. The American nation is not poor nation.
Prabhupāda: ...lower animals. Nobody is starving. Have you seen any bird, died of starvation? There are so many hundreds, thousands of birds in this garden.
Devotee: Even in all these countries, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they are always complaining about there are so many starving people, but nobody has ever seen anybody die.
Prabhupāda: (chuckles) In India also. They, "Poverty, poverty, poverty." Have you seen anyone dying?
Śrutakīrti: No.
Prabhupāda: They are purchasing eight rupees kilo rice.
Śrutakīrti: Even the poorest person seems to be maintaining somehow. Even the poorest people seem to be maintained. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...of knowledge, not starvation of food.
Prabhupāda: But that creating problem. The psychiatrists came to see me, where? Caracas. So I said—he admitted, both the psychiatrists—that "You are not treating the real person who is diseased." I gave him the example, that "You have got good car, but the driver is a madman, and he is creating disaster, and you psychiatrists are going to cure it. You never say that 'The driver is bad. Change him or just educate him. Then there will be no disaster.' But you are taking your fees and giving some repairing in the car. But you do not know what is the original cause of disaster. It is not chance. Due to the bad driver." So our propaganda is to give the bad driver nice knowledge so that he can drive the car to Vaikuṇṭha. That is our position. And these rascals, the materialists, they are simply painting the body of the car. And the driver? "Let him starve."
Prabhupāda: Our first problem is, because we have got this material body, eating. Everyone must eat. So Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā, annād bhavanti bhūtāni: (BG 3.14) "If there is sufficient food grains, then both man and animal, they become happy." Therefore our first religion is to produce food grain sufficiently to feed everyone. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva (BG 18.44). This matter has been entrusted to the vaiśyas. They should produce sufficient food and give protection to the cows for sufficient milk. Then the whole human society, animal society, will be happy. But we are disobeying the orders or the rules given by God. Instead of producing food, we are producing motorcars. And motor tires, motor parts. And so many other things. And therefore people are starving. The manual labor is being misused. We are disobeying the orders of God. Therefore we are unhappy.
Prabhupāda: No, their knowledge is so imperfect, they're taking asatyere satya kori māni. Asatyere, you understand Bengali? Asatyere satya kori māni, accepting the untruth as truth. Asatyere nitāi-pada pāsariyā, ahaṅkāre matta hoiyā nitāi-pada pāsariyā, asatyere satya kori māni, by forgetting our relationship with God and being proud of their so-called... (break) That motor car is not your life. That is being misguided. Everyone is thinking that this body, motor car, is everything. But within, the driver, he's starving. So how long he'll carry on this motor car. So first of all take care of the driver who will protect this motor car nicely. And if the driver is a nonsense, he's starving, then how can I expect the car will go very nicely. It will create disaster.
Prabhupāda: Realize the Supreme, that is the first and foremost aim, but at the same time, to keep the whole human society in perfect happiness, according to the direction of God. Just like I told you that Kṛṣṇa says, annād bhavanti bhūtāni. If you want to keep the living entities, both men and animal, you must arrange for their nice fooding. Who can deny this philosophy? But they are saying that poverty should be removed, and we must acquire food for the suffering and starving. But what they are doing? They are manufacturing motor tire, the rascals.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Where is the actual attempt to give everyone sufficient food? Where is that attempt? And here in the Bhagavad-gītā it is plainly said, annād bhavanti bhūtāni: (BG 3.14) if you want to keep happy the animals and the men, then produce food grain. Who is doing that? They simply passing resolution and raising funds and then eating, themself, at the cost of others. And therefore the price is increasing. One who has got money, he can pay more price, artificial. I am poor man. I have no money. You have got money. You purchase before me. Then I starve. But if there is sufficient supply of food grain, then this thing will not happen. You can distribute without any price. That was being done in India. Educated man means unemployment, is it not? So-called education means creating unemployment. They will go with application, "Give me some clerical post, some this post, that post, that post." This is education.
Prabhupāda: Make the whole field green, (break) sumptuously, let the animals eat, let the man eat. They feel satisfaction and they (break) He knows some people, they are being exploited, animals are being exploited by these rogues, fat, big, big, fat rogues. Discovering some nonsense, scientific means and people are starving. There is no food. And they're busy in discovering scientific method.
Yaśodānandana: Atomic bomb for India. That is the greatest paradox.
Prabhupāda: There was a picture... some deputation came to the minister that we are starving. There is no food. The administrator, he went, "Of course I have no information that you have no, but we're advanced now. Come tomorrow, there will be radio message. Radio message, radio, there's television, ha television..."
Yaśodānandana: Television.
Prabhupāda: Television, tomorrow, from tomorrow you'll have television.
Yaśodānandana: Instead of food.
Prabhupāda: Because they have got family attachment, so they cannot sacrifice. They will work very, very hard. You have seen how they are going to office, how..., because they have got the responsibility of family. That is Indians another feature. They take family responsibility. In your country there is no such thing. There is no family. There is no family responsibility. In India still that old tradition is going on. Therefore they cannot sacrifice the family responsibility, although they are willing. And the whole thing is it is due to poverty-stricken position. They have got family responsibilities. They think, "If I go, then whole family will starve. How can I go?" That is the exact position. And to come to that stage, that "Let my family starve, I don't mind," that is very higher stage. That is sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), "Oh, no responsibility, simply I have got respons..." That is not ordinary stage. You cannot expect these things from ordinary man.
Amogha: Due to the propaganda, people take it for granted, "Yes, there is overpopulation. Yes, there is lack of food. There is starvation, this and that."
Prabhupāda: Because they cannot manage, so they give some other cause.
Devotee (1): Instead of using the land to grow potatoes and watermelons, they're simply using it to build more offices for tables and chairs to study the situation.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. (pause) Life will be more more dangerous in this Kali-yuga. People will starve. And they... It is already began. The hippies are going to the forest. This will be the whole world situation. Everything will be chaotic.
Prabhupāda: A brāhmaṇa should remain independent. He should live by his qualities. People will honor him. Just like we are training. We do not serve anyone, but we are maintaining big establishment.This is brāhmaṇa. We do not serve anyone, any merchant, officer, any... No. We chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. If Kṛṣṇa wants, He will give us food, or we shall starve. We are not going to serve. This is the proof. We are spending not less than twenty lakhs of rupees for maintaining our establishment throughout the whole world, but we do not know what is our next moment's income. We do not know... We have eaten today. We do not know whether we shall have any eatable next day. This is our position. If it is available, we shall eat; otherwise we shall starve. This is our position.
Prabhupāda: We have got about hundred centers. And we are maintained in Eu..., just like European, American standard, not vagabond standard. But still, we have no fixed income. Depend on Kṛṣṇa. If He wants, He will give us food; if He wants, we shall starve. This is brāhmaṇa, practical. And "Now I have got all degrees, and unless I get a good master, then I am street dog." (Dr. Copeland laughs) That is śūdra. Without getting a master... Just like a street dog has no value unless he gets a good master.
Prabhupāda: That is God. He is supplying the necessities of life to everyone. So what I have done that He will not give me food? And I am engaged my life for His service. If I have no such confidence, then where is Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Why shall I flatter others for my food? So this is brāhmaṇa's... "I must have full confidence in Kṛṣṇa. And God is so able, so competent, that He can feed millions and trillions and unlimited number of living entities, and I have dedicated my life for Kṛṣṇa's service, and I will starve?
Kṛṣṇa will not look after me?" Is that faith?
Dharmādhyakṣa: ...making other people starve by eating so much meat so in the future the other countries might force us to stop eating meat so that we can use the grain to feed people. So actually materially, economically, socially, in every way it is very bad. They are realizing now.
Prabhupāda: And they will say that because they are not eating meat, they are weak in health.
Prabhupāda: But that you do not know, how to do good to the people. Just like a diseased man. The doctor has ordered that he should starve. But if you go in the hospital and you take sympathy with the starving patient, "Oh, you are starving for the last three days," if you give to him some food without the permission of the physician, then you will be punished. So he may think that "Oh, here is a starving man. I must give him some food." But you are liable to be punished. So first of all learn how to do good to others. So that is described here. Tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido (SB 1.5.18). To bring him to the knowledge of self-realization, that is good. If you can distribute knowledge to bring him back to his consciousness, original consciousness, that is real welfare activity. Otherwise, if you manufacture something that "This man is starving: let me give him some food," it may be wrongly done, and you are liable to be punished. So first of all, you must learn what is actually good to the human society. Then, if we do that, that is good.
Prabhupāda: Nature is all-powerful. Kṛṣṇa has given: "You work in this way." She'll work. She'll work. She'll punish. As soon as there is little discrepancy—you have eaten, eaten more than is necessary-indigestion. "Indigestion, starve." This is nature's law. Nature will act. But you have to (indistinct) them with knowledge that "You don't do this. Otherwise you will be under the control of nature life after life. Simply miseries." Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Vaiṣṇava's qualification is para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. He is unhappy by seeing others' distress. This is Vaiṣṇava.
Prabhupāda: ...spiritual education, he remains an animal. That's all. (break) That is Vedānta-sūtra, athāto brahma jijñāsā. To find out the ultimate goal, that is education. Janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1), "Wherefrom everything is coming," that is education.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: But they may say, "That is not practical, because we will starve to death with such knowledge."
Prabhupāda: Then... Then you are useless. Because you cannot go to the ultimate point of education, therefore your education is useless.
Prabhupāda: "So if you make propaganda and pay money to go against the Hindus and incite them"—gradually it developed. And the money was being paid by the Britishers. And he saw that money is coming. He had no feeling, national or… He wanted money, that's all. For money you can purchase anything nowadays.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Why did the British build all so many railroads?
Prabhupāda: For drawing raw materials from villages and bring it to the Calcutta, Bombay port and export to their country because their country does not produce anything. They’re starving. Still England, London, is maintained by importing goods from Africa, India, here, there. They have no food there. They can grow some potato, maybe… Potato only, That was the reason of expanding their empire. They had no food at home, England. They were manufacturing cotton cloth. That cotton was not grown in their country. It was brought from Egypt. They manipulated things in such a way. In America also they wanted to do that, but Americans, just understanding, separated, George Washington. In America I have heard that each family was to maintain a British soldier. You know that?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, I didn’t know that.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And they brought tea from India and other places and sell it in America. Their whole policy was they exploit the whole world and bring money in London. That's all. And one who will do that, he will be honored by the state, given Earl of some small village. It has no value. Earl of this whole…, this man…, place, Lord of this. (laughter) A few acres of land and he is Lord of Chelmsford. And they will be given big, big post, governor, viceroy.
Prabhupāda: That is real education. We want that you learn from Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, you learn from Vyāsadeva, you learn from Nārada. But why you are learning from Freud, from Darwin and such rascals? Education means you should learn from a person who is authorized, who is without mistake, without illusion, who does not cheat, just like we are learning from Kṛṣṇa. That is education. And if you learn from rascals and fools, then what is that education? Education means to learn from the learned person. But if you are learning from a rascal and fool, then what is your education? Education required, but we require what is actually education, which is not cheating. But we are being educated, being cheated. We are working for this body, which I am not. Is that education or it is cheating? If you say, "I am taking my interest," I'll say "I am taking water; I wash daily my shirt and coat." And that, is that knowledge? And what about you? Your food? "I don't care for that. I wash my coat and shirt daily." Is that education? You keep yourself starving and you keep your coat and shirt very cleanse. Is that education? This is going on.
Prabhupāda: What is the problem? But still, these rascals will say that he is right. You see? He cannot even analyze properly, and still he is obstinate; he is right. This rascaldom is going on. And if we say "rascal," they are angry. Murkhayopadeṣo hi prakopaya na śanti...: "To a rascal, if you give the right instruction, they will be simply angry." That's all. Not pacification, they will be angry. Payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujanganam kevalaṁ visa-vardhanam: "Just like the serpent, rascal. If you give him milk, he'll drink it and increase his poison." That's it. The result will be he will increase his poison. Better to keep them starvation. Therefore everyone, as soon as one sees the serpent, immediately kills. No consideration. "Here is a serpent. Kill him." Similarly, immediately we see the scientists, kill.
Girirāja: He said the population will go on increasing more and more, and there won't be enough food, so everyone will starve.
Prabhupāda: He said, the scientist. Then what your scientific knowledge will help?
Brahmānanda: Well, if they drop some bombs they will reduce the population. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: You see, the people are spending more than thirty, forty rupees on a dog every day. But they won't pay two rupees to a servant, domestic servant in their home.
Prabhupāda: They are keeping servants also. But educated dogs. After passing so many examinations, they are seeking after master. And without master they will starve. This is doggish mentality. A big technologist, unless he gets a good job, he is nothing but dog.
Harikeśa: If you spend all your days just chanting, how can you eat? Religion means you go to the church and you just pray.
Prabhupāda: And who says that religionists should not eat? Do we say...? We have ample prasādam to eat. It is already there. You are researching after food, starving dog. We don't research. There is food ready.
Prabhupāda: "Now you starve. In future I shall pay." "How shall I eat?" "Now you starve. In future you'll get payment." You do not know what is the chemical, how it is acting, and depending on your future knowledge, and still, you are talking like a very great scientist. This rascaldom should be stopped by kicking on their face. Huh? So? Ambarīṣa Mahārāja, do you agree?
Ambarīṣa: Yes.
Ambarīṣa: They can lift all kinds of weight and fight very strongly. Very strong people. So they're not starving.
Prabhupāda: No, no, they are stronger than the lions and the elephant? Are they stronger than these animals? Are they? Are the Russians stronger than the elephant and the lion?
Prabhupāda: So that is described in the Bhāgavatam, that they will be embarrassed with so many problems. That is not a communistic idea. That is the future of Kali-yuga. That is mentioned in the Bhāgavatam. Āchinna-dāra-draviṇā gacchanti giri-kānanam. They will be harassed by famine, taxation, and starvation. Naturally they will be disappointed. Āchinna. That is already told.
Alanath: In Sweden when you go on the street and you preach, "Everybody must suffer here," they don't believe because everybody got an apartment. They have never seen a poor man or a starving cow.
Prahupada: But he is himself a poor man.
Prabhupāda: This is śūdra. If anyone depends on the master's mercy, he's a śūdra. Here in New Delhi, these big, big buildings, big, big officers, as soon as the government will fail, they will be street dogs, that's all. Now they are plundering, by official instrument. Now when the government will be finished, they will be street dog. That's all. This is your civilization. Immediately if all of a sudden there is attack in New Delhi, all the people will starve. There is no food at all, and they'll die.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Acyutānanda: Unless they take to your religion...
Prabhupāda: ...to his original consciousness.
Acyutānanda: Unless they follow you, then you won't feed them. You are starving them until they...
Prabhupāda: No, no, no. We shall go on. Chanting will also go on. Both things.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. The materialism and spiritualism is explained by Rūpa Gosvāmī. There is bird, cātaka. So they drink water when the rain falls, and otherwise they will starve. They will never accept any water from this earth.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There is actually such a bird.
Prabhupāda: A devotee will never accept materialism, even if he dies of starvation. You'll see so many still. They are sticking to this principle. There are still many saintly persons in India. They do that. They don't care for any bodily care. "Some food comes; I shall eat. Never mind." Still you'll find. They are sitting in their place and chanting or meditating without any concern for bodily necessities.
Prabhupāda: Communism?
Acyutānanda: Yes, many places.
Prabhupāda: It is a failure.
Guru-kṛpā: There was a recent issue of Newsweek.
Acyutānanda: I... I think, only in the world, that is the real country where people are really starving, in Russia.
Prabhupāda: Russia, yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is criminal. (Bengali) If you take s annyāsa... Just like there are so many sannyāsīs, for filling up the belly. Wherever you go they give some alms. But in..., outside India, who cares for the sannyāsī? Then why you should be eager to take sannyāsa and cheat yourself? You cannot cheat others, but you can cheat yourself.
Hṛdayānanda: Outside India a sannyāsī will starve.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) So I do not know why our disciples are so anxious to take sannyāsa, at least those who are outside. Everyone comes: "Give me sannyāsa." What is the idea?
Jayapatākā: Freedom from authority.
Prabhupāda: Ah, everything, yes. Roti is there, kaparā is there, and makān is there. And wherefrom it is coming? Sarva-kāma-dughā mahī. From earth. Why you are after factories? The mother earth is giving you everything. Therefore he's called mother. Seven mothers... One of the mothers is this earth. Dhenu dhātrī tathā pṛthvi sapteti mātari smṛtāḥ. Dhenu means cow, and dhātrī means nurse. Tathā pṛthvi. Pṛthvi means this land. So they are taking care of the land, nationalists, and killing the other mother, dhenu. A rascal civilization. If you are taking care of mother, you must take care of all mothers. No, they are mad after the land, but killing the other mother, dhenu. This is called rascaldom. (break) ...to give all comforts to the human brother, and they are sending the animal brother to slaughterhouse. What is this Communist? If you are Communist, if you are equal to all your brothers, why you should discriminate? And our communism is that even there is a snake in your home, you must see that he is not starving. This is spiritual communism. Nobody likes snake. Everyone kills. But śāstra says, "Even a snake is there at your home, you must see that he's not starving." This is communism, perfect.
Madhudviṣa: They have to become atheist. If they don't become atheists, then they can't play their games anymore. The idea of their research finishes as soon as you admit that there is God. But if you say, "There's no God," then they can research. It was explained that...
Prabhupāda: They can continue to befool you, that, and take money. And as soon as you don't give them money, there is no research. Then they starve.
Prabhupāda: Encouraging means your behavior should be so nice that he voluntarily gives. That is encouraging, not that begging and "Put something here. My belly is empty." (laughter) ...that is nice, that "Here is an institution. You kindly become a member. Help us." That is another thing. But why should you earn by showing the Deity? You work so nicely they will become voluntarily member, contributing. That is nice. But not that "Now we have got Deity. He's starving. Please give me something." No. That is not good prac...
Prabhupāda: ...to eat yourself, sufficiently, and if there is excess, then question of trade, vāṇījyam. Otherwise, if there is no excess, where is the question of vāṇījya? You are starving.
Prabhupāda: So elevate them to the right point. Elevate them. You are elevating them only on the platform of eating, sleeping, mating. That is there in the animal. So you have to talk this philosophy. Our philosophy is that expanded—not only human being but animals also. Our philosophy is, if there is one lizard in your room, I should see that he is not starving. This is our philosophy. Not only human being but animals, even an insect.
Devotee (2): Well, they will say that the roots of the tree is bringing the water up.
Prabhupāda: That is a nonsense. You make such root and bring water here. Then your scientific knowledge will be proved. But you cannot do it. Can you do it? We are spending so much money for bringing water. Bring that root and bring water.
Madhudviṣa: We have done better. We can do it faster. Within, within a few minutes we can bring so much water here. You must...
Prabhupāda: But if I don't pay you, you'll starve. You'll never be able to do it if I don't pay you.
Reporter (3): Your Divine Grace, would your message be exactly the same for, say, a starving man in India and a Westerner who's got everything that a person needs?
Prabhupāda: We say that not only in India, everyone, you'll starve, because you are rebellious to God consciousness. You must starve. That is the punishment. Just like anyone who is a criminal, he must be punished. That is the law of nature.
Reporter (3): So by that, I suppose one would presume that people in India have been most rebellious to God.
Prabhupāda: Why India? Everywhere. Why you speak India?
Prabhupāda: When you speak of God, don't take India, or America or Europe. Everywhere.
Reporter (3): No. Because the number of starving men here is much larger.
Prabhupāda: You are starving on account of your economic condition being bad or.... I cannot say anything. But they are also starving. You are poor by force, and they sometimes accept poverty voluntarily, just like the hippies. They have enough money. They are coming from very rich father and grandfather, but they lie down on the street, and the police comes and kick them, "Hey, get up! Get up!" Why? Why they have accepted this? So this kind of varieties we find everywhere-rich man, middle class man, and poverty-stricken man. Don't think that it is in India. I am traveling all over the world.
Prabhupāda: It is known to everyone. Kṛṣṇa says, annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Anna. Anna means food grains, eatables. You must produce sufficient food grains. Why you are producing tire tube instead of food grains? And just entering your Delhi from Vṛndāvana, a big Goodyear factory, very big factory. You are producing tire tube, then iron, Goodyear and this and that. Where is food grain? And both sides, the field is vacant. Nobody is going to grow food grain. Then why you'll not starve? It is your fault. You are producing tire tube and iron instrument. You are neglecting agriculture. Then why you shall not suffer for want of food grain? And you are pleading, "Indians are starving." Well, why shall not starve if they do not follow Bhagavad-gītā? They are thinking, "By increasing industry in America..." They have got industry, at the same time food grains also. But you are taking to industry without taking care of growing food grains.
Madhudviṣa: I was reading in the paper the other day, how the Catholic church has drastically declined in the last ten years.
Prabhupāda: They must decline.
Madhudviṣa: They are losing one billion dollars a year in donations because they cannot...
Prabhupāda: They have to starve, not a single paisa donation. By law should be prohibited. No donation should be (indistinct).
Pañcadraviḍa: They used to be very strong. Everybody had to give ten percent of their wages.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Lokanātha: Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam says they will be starving.
Prabhupāda: Mm?
Lokanātha: As Kali-yuga advances, they're mentioning one time, there will be durbhikṣā, means not even bhikṣā will be given to sādhus.
Prabhupāda: Yes, not even bhikṣā will be available. I don't think bhikṣā is available in Western countries, eh?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore how it is possible? Because, after all, apart from Matan(?) Muni, if this is the rule, that one living entity is the food for another living entity... This is the law of nature. Jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. You cannot starve and live.
Prabhupāda: Spiritual life means... (Hindi) And Dhruva Mahārāja starved six months, a boy of five years old. It is possible. He did not eat. Simply tapasya. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Guru-kṛpā: There's more cows in this country than people.
Prabhupāda: They are killing?
Guru-kṛpā: They are eating them.
Prabhupāda: And other countries, they are starving for want of milk. Therefore I say the United Nation simply barking dogs. What is the value if they cannot adjust? United Nation, all the nations should take advantage all the facilities offered, but that they will not allow. And they are named, "United." Just see. Farce.
Devotee (1): In New Zealand they have a hundred million tons of surplus milk powder, and they can't sell it, so they decided to feed it to the pigs. They could send it all over the world.
Prabhupāda: Why not take it free and send it to India? (break) ...of the world. Everything is sufficiently there, but still, some are starving and some are enjoying for want of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Guru-kṛpā: The rascals, they try to blame everything on Kṛṣṇa by saying, "Why is Kṛṣṇa letting people starve?"
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is giving them sufficient. They are mismanaging. Still, Kṛṣṇa is still bad. Envious. Kṛṣṇa created this earth. Did He say, "This is for the Australians. This is for the Americans"? Did He say? Why you are keeping so much land as "Australia"? That is also Kṛṣṇa's fault? Australia was never given to the Englishmen. They came and they, by force they took it. So similarly America, the land was there.
Devotee (3): They call this colonization, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Whatever you may call, there are thieves, rogues and thieves. That's all.
Prabhupāda: You are not feeling joyful? To chant, dance, and eat prasādam is not joyful? Is it not?
Devotee (2): Yes.
Prabhupāda: Then what do you want more? And simply by chanting, dancing, and eating prasādam you are making progress. Therefore it is su-sukham. You haven't got to press your nose and make your head down and starve for three hundred years, nothing like that. Go to the forest, go to the Himalayas.... No. At your place you chant, dance, and take prasādam. That's all.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: China has achieved great material strides in the last twenty years. There is no prostitution. They have wiped out flies, no more flies causing disease. There is.... And they look to a very bitter past of exploitation at the hand of foreigners and internal civil war and great suffering and starvation. So when they look back over twenty years they see, "Oh, we have advanced greatly." So they are very satisfied.
Prabhupāda: No, if they actually progressing, they will have to come to that point—that is natural—where, placing your service, you can serve everyone. That is the right conclusion. But we have got that right conclusion. If you take from us you can make immediately.
Devotee (2): There's some theories, where they think that there's only a certain amount of grains...
Prabhupāda: Their theories we don't accept. There's so much water.
Devotee (2): But, therefore, if they don't, if you don't work to conserve it, then everyone will starve.
Prabhupāda: After all, you produce it, then conserve. These rascals, do they produce water?
Devotee (2): No.
Devotee (4): The example that if God is supplying, then why doesn't He supply the underprivileged countries? Just like in some places like India people are starving. So why doesn't He supply places like that?
Prabhupāda: Who says India is starving? You are saying. I'm Indian, I don't starve. You are false propaganda, "India's starving."
Devotee (4): Bangladesh they...
Devotee (3): I was in Bangladesh also; they're not starving.
Prabhupāda: No one is starving. This is all propaganda. This propaganda.... You know in your country there are so many foundations. There is so many false organizations. They're under the name of India, they draw the money and take it. I've seen it. They have got arrangement with the trustees of the fund, and with some propaganda they draw money, and then they divide, the trustees and the organization. That's all. I've seen.
Devotee (1): Places like Africa, such as Biafra, where they have...
Prabhupāda: There are countries, there is, they are not opulent or affluent as you are. But that doesn't mean they're starving.
Prabhupāda: No, here the American policy, the Western policy, that if the people get easily food, they'll not come to work in the industry. That is their policy. If they get cheap food, then they won't work. That is human nature.
Devotee (5): That is very interesting.
Prabhupāda: Ha?
Devotee (5): That's very interesting.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So they want to keep them starving or in want, so they'll come and produce and make the capitalists rich. This is the system.
Prabhupāda: Therefore America has so much over-production. Let the hungry men come here. Greediness is not allowed. Whatever... Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). This is śāstra. Everything belongs to God. Whatever He allots to you, you take it. In the family the father says, "My dear boy, take of this." That's all. Why should he claim more? The father knows how much he'll eat, and He'll give it. He's supplying the elephant his food, the ant his food. Elephant's not dying starvation. Why you are worried? You want to eat forty kilos. All right. Take it. The father is able to supply. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. He's supplying everyone.
Hari-śauri: They pay the farmers not to grow crops.
Prabhupāda: Yes. (indistinct) There are so many people starving, they have no land to produce food. Therefore the Supreme Father has to be accepted.
Hari-śauri: Just like when we were in Fiji, all they grow is sugarcane so they have to sell the sugarcane to get money to buy crops that they could have grown there in the first place.
Hari-śauri: Gratitude is a sign of intelligence.
Prabhupāda: Stena eva sa ucyate (BG 3.12). In Bhāgavata it is written that everything belongs to God. You take whatever is your necessity. You take more, then you'll be punished. This is Bhāgavata's statement. So now the business is to become capitalist. He's taking more, holding the whole stock, at least in India. It is not coming to the market, and people are starving. So they will be punished. (break) ...also. The excess grain they are throwing it into the sea. So they'll be punished.
Ṛṣabhadeva: They said one of the main reasons is because they are killing the snakes for the skin, the snakes that feed on the rats. They kill so many snakes to get the skin, therefore there's no way to control the rat population.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. It is saved for you. Go and take it.
Mahendra: They wear the snakes and eat the rats.
Prabhupāda: Snake will die of starvation. It is better. You go and eat.
Hari-śauri: Oh, Śukadeva was saying in Hawaii. They bury the pig, and when it becomes completely rotten they dig it up and eat it.
Prabhupāda: So similarly, when the cow is dead, you dig, or put it within the.... Or take it. No, nobody will object. In India, that is the system. When the cow is dead, there is a class, they are called cobblers, camar(?). They are informed and they'll come. They'll take it. And they'll eat the flesh and take the skin, and tan it in their own method, and then prepare shoes. They sell it in the market. So without any price, they get the skin, they eat the flesh. So nobody is harmed. But there is a class.... (break) ...they are not going to starve. From economic point of view, it is very good. So why you are killing and maintaining so big, big slaughterhouse? Let everyone maintain the cows for taking milk. And when it dies, you take it, you meat-eaters. Make that arrangement.
Scheverman: So if I understand you correctly, you are saying utilize intelligence to correct the problem. Produce more food rather than worry about the fact.... So that the poor can have to eat and the animals can have. So your approach, then, is not one of direct assistance to the person who is starving or suffering, but rather indirect, utilizing intelligence to produce food.
Prabhupāda: Yes, and there will be no starvation.
Scheverman: It's an intellectual approach. I think our approach would be, we would be concerned with a person-to-person assistance. That is the way, our way, that Jesus has taught us. He said, "Feed the hungry and harbor the harborless and visit the imprisoned."
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you have got enough food grains.... Just like in our headquarter in Bengal, we are giving food daily, at least one thousand men.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, you have got this jewel, utilize it properly, make your life perfect.
- ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa bhramite kono bhāgyavān jīva
- guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya paya bhakti-latā-bija
- (CC Madhya 19.151)
But we don't say that you starve, you unnecessarily give trouble to your body. No. Eat nicely, but simply, and save time for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is our program.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Especially cows and beef. So we have no objection, but they should at least wait until it dies naturally. What is the harm? They still get the same thing, and one devotee, Kīrtanānanda, I think, was saying that when they slaughter an animal even in the slaughterhouse, it has to sit some time, some number of days before they distribute it. So I proposed that the Westerners, they consider that this is superstitious, this protection of the cow. Prabhupāda says Why superstitious? The cow is providing milk. Every child knows that he's getting milk from the cow, the cow is mother. So why in the old age we should slaughter mother? Is this a good argument that like, for example, they say, in India, how so many people are starving, why don't they eat the cows? So Prabhupāda proposed that "If you're starving, does it mean that you eat your mother and father?"
Prabhupāda: If you want to eat, let the father and mother die, then eat. (laughter) Who has objection?
Prabhupāda: Just like George. What is his value? He's artist, that's all. From educational point of view, from things other view, he does not know anything. But he has got some money on account of his artistic play on it(?), and he's big man, that's all. Somehow or other get money, you become a big man. There is no question of culture or anything. That is stated in the Bhāgavata. The money will be the criterion—no family, culture, education. These things will not be taken into account. If you have got money, then you are big man. Never mind what you are. Therefore people are after money. Who is going to be brāhmaṇa? If you become a perfect brāhmaṇa, who will care for you? Nobody is interested to become a brāhmaṇa. "Why we shall become brāhmaṇa? Starve? For starvation?" Nowadays the colleges, they're not interested in art, philosophy, English literature. No, they.... Nobody.... They go for technical, how they will get more money. They do not want. Some of the doctor, professor, they came to request us to give our student. They are not getting student. And after few years they'll be all dismissed. Who will pay them? Hayagriva told me. He's not getting any job. There is another, Mr., Dr. Henderson. He's also not getting any job. He's selling insurance. And Bon Mahārāja, his institute is suffering from the very beginning till now, simply begging, begging and paying, paying the professor. No student. First of all he started Vaiṣṇava philosophy, so doctorate, Ph.D. So especially in India, who is going to take Ph.D. in Vaiṣṇava philosophy and starve? So this is failure. It is already failure, but he is persistent.
Bhagavān: Therefore people are very surprised we are not starving.
Prabhupāda: Why we shall starve?
Bhagavān: We are not starving.
Prabhupāda: We are, rather, inviting, "Come here. Live comfortably. You chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." Then what is the difference between Kṛṣṇa's state and ordinary state? When I see so many young boys are taking prasādam, I become so happy that they are having prasādam and good chance for chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, that's all. They are living in the best house.
Bhagavān: Even the churches, they are not feeding people like this. They have so much money.
Prabhupāda: They asked, "What you want to eat?" "If you can, you make first-class kacuri." That is from my childhood. My friends also did it. They'd make the first-class kacuris in my youthhood. I am fond of kacuri. Kacuri is made first class in Mathurā. Agra and Mathurā. Very, very nice. The kacuri is being made, hundreds of customers waiting. At shops, there was many shops, waiting for purchasing. And as soon as it comes out of the pan, immediately sold. There is no question of waiting. They make spice nicest. That is India's craftsmanship. Nobody will starve. If you have no business, you prepare something palatable, and people will purchase, all over India.
Hari-śauri: There's so many people on the railway station selling.
Prabhupāda: There's no question of starvation for want of money. Anywhere sit down and do something palatable, and people will purchase. So your livelihood will go on.
Dayānanda: They think that the countries that have the materialistic advancement or scientific advancements, that they are very well situated.
Prabhupāda: Well, scientific advancement, all this nonsense you can say. Just like Iran. God has given the oil underneath the ground, you are so proud. But if God would not give you the oil, then you starve in the desert. Then talk of improvement, nonsense. You're dependent on the oil. That is given by God. By God's grace, you have got some stock of oil, and there is good demand of oil. Then you are proud of making advancement.
Prabhupāda: So they do not give the lamb to eat something?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: They... I don't know, maybe they took the mother away or something.
Prabhupāda: No, I hear this sound always somewhere. No, they keep the lambs for killing, eh? But before killing, do they not supply any food? They starve?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: They're very cruel. They don't have any human qualification.
Commissioner: No, Swamiji, some of them didn't care either for the money.
Prabhupāda: Some of them maybe.
Commissioner: And they were starving, and they were starving.
Prabhupāda: But generally, generally, that Caitanya Mahāprabhu's process should be taken. As Caitanya Mahāprabhu represented Himself that "I am fool." He is not fool. He's representing the fools of this age. So if we take that process, it will be successful. It will be successful.
Akṣayānanda: So one question I wanted to ask you in this connection, is that this Vinobha, fasting until death, until cow slaughter is stopped. So if he dies then he is guilty of murder. Is it correct. And if he's a brāhmaṇa, he is guilty of brahma-hatya. So by this fasting he is committing a greater sin than the actual killing of the cows.
Prabhupāda: You are right.
Akṣayānanda: And what is the gain?
Prabhupāda: And what he'll get it? Does he think that by his dying of starvation this cow-killing will be stopped? That is his foolishness.
Akṣayānanda: He will die and it will go on.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is his foolishness.
Prabhupāda: A local man cannot get. He's starving. And the man in big cities, he's doing nothing, he simply has got paper to sign and paper money he's attracting. All production. And they are starving. This is modern civilization. Everything, milk, vegetables, fish, everything, this chānā. Otherwise, within the village you can get everything. Village economy. Everything very cheap. And as soon as they got these transport facilities, the local men, they could not eat, and these lazy rascals, they are getting everything.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: What they're doing now, these parents are getting in contact with devotees who have blooped, and they're getting these devotees to make statements against us.
Prabhupāda: Just see. They are living peacefully in a villa in Paris so happily that ah... Some, one gentleman came to see me "Swamiji, you are preaching against meat-eating, this cannot be done in this country, then we will starve." I said "No, you will never starve. You take this formula." (laughs) So they are thinking like that.
Prabhupāda: And I went to Detroit about six months ago. There're factories. They have manufactured the wheels, huge stock. That means they are not selling. And the Goodyear Tire, they advertising, "So many millions tires we are manufacturing." You have been in Detroit? Yes. They're proud that "We have manufactured so many tires, so many wheels." The time will come when there will be no purchaser for tires and wheels, and they'll starve. That is coming.
Prabhupāda: No. If I take anything else it becomes overburdened. Better take little less, just to satisfy that I am not starving. (laughter) Better to starve. That is better. But we are habituated, so better give some consolance, "No, no, you are not starving." Otherwise starving is better.
Vāsughoṣa: So in that way, because they are not feeding the stomach, they are actually starving.
Prabhupāda: Starving. They are supplying food to the eyes. The eyes are becoming blind and the food is wasted and no nutrition.
Prabhupāda: If you have got water filled up in that tank, we can water so many lands. We shall spend for that. We shall... Pipe line, pumping. Here is so much land we can produce gur (?). But you have no brain. Produce gur, get money and spend it for Kṛṣṇa. This is wanted. Not simply planning and talking. The world is suffering for want of right planning. Otherwise, there is no question of suffering. Pūrṇam idam, complete it is, everything complete. That is the Vedic verse. Why (indistinct) ...incomplete means he's rascals. That supply (break) and still all right. Eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. Kṛṣṇa does not want to see that we are starving for want of food. That He does not want to see. But because you have come to the material world, you have to work hard. Then you'll get your food. That is the material world.
Prabhupāda: Hm. But God is giving hint that if, "Rascal, it is in My hand. I can keep you in starvation to death." The man is dull brain. Anyway, I am anxious to learn, why so many people are suffering? They have become all gray. Throughout whole France I saw. From Paris to Valencay I went. Gray. These people are not lazy, but there was no water. They utilize every inch land for agricultural purpose. At least I saw in France. Then maybe everywhere in Europe. They are not lazy fellow. There is organization, government organization here.
Prabhupāda: We are detecting who is irreligious. That's all. That is our business.
Guest (3): They are detecting who is irreligious.
Prabhupāda: He is going on in the name of religion, but he does not know what is religion. So that we are detecting. You can say like that. This is our business.
Guest (3): It was an allegation by an important...
Prabhupāda: It is allegation. And they are so fools that the Americans, they have come here to become Vaiṣṇava and starvation and they have become religious.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Guest (Indian man): Guruji, just now the problem is of starvation.
Prabhupāda: Well, starvation... Suppose you are diseased, and if your father does not give you to eat, that is your blessing. Guest (1): And what about...? He will die or...? Or this will go away?
Prabhupāda: Why you are complaining? Suppose your father, he gives you everything. But when you are diseased, if he said, "My dear son you cannot eat everything," is that starvation?
Guest (3): But...
Prabhupāda: First of all give me answer this. Is that starvation?
Guest (3): No...
Prabhupāda: That is cure. This is cure. In the Vedas it is said, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetānām eko yo bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. God is giving food to the cats and dogs. Nobody is starving. If you are starving, that is your blessing.
Guest (3): But then, Guruji, suppose you see somebody...
Prabhupāda: We do not suppose. We get the reference to the śāstra. That is our disease. We don't manufacture. We don't manufacture anything. Our point of view is if there is starvation, then we take it: mercy of Kṛṣṇa. Tat te nukampāṁ su-samīkṣamāṇo bhuñjāna evātma-kṛtaṁ vipākam (SB 10.14.8). When we are put into starvation, we take it: blessings of God. We don't complain, that "I did something wrong or there is something wrong, so God has put me into this position. It is His blessing." This is our view.
Prabhupāda: So this starvation point, we take it as blessing. People generally question that "How God is unfavorable to somebody and favorable to...?" That is foolishness. God is good, but that we do not know. Because we are less intelligent, we think that "One man is in starvation; therefore God is not good." That is our fault. We are not good. We do not understand God. But a Vaiṣṇava says, "Oh, it is blessing." And if he takes like that, then the result is mukti-pade sa dayā-bhāk. His mukti is guaranteed. In any circumstances, if somebody takes God as good, then his mukti is guaranteed. And if he blames God—"Oh, He has put me into starvation"—then he has to suffer. This is the common argument sometimes we meet, "Oh, why God has made somebody so rich and somebody some poor? He is unjust." That is foolishness. God cannot be... He's just, always just. That is God. So unless we have got that firm conviction, then we cannot become devotee.
Haṁsadūta: I think Mahāṁsa would rather manage the farm himself.
Prabhupāda: Then... You think... I do not know, but manage somehow or other. I want that prasāda distribution must go on. People should come in numbers, increase. Whatever you can produce, spend for that purpose. We are not going to produce foodstuff for our starving... It is for them. When they'll understand, they'll work voluntarily: "Yes, it's for us." We are not capitalists.
Mr. Asnani: And in countryside they consider, "Grace of God is our culture." In villages...
Prabhupāda: In villages no sannyāsī starves. As soon as there is a sannyāsī in the village, so many villagers, "Baba, aiye, prasāda paiye. (Hindi)" Daily. Still in Punjab, any sannyāsī goes, he gets invitation. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, when He was in tīrtha... That is the system.
Mr. Asnani: Unconditional surrender.
Prabhupāda: Huh? You have done already upasannān. So is Kṛṣṇa unable to maintain you? Why should you go to this blind man? So we go not for our maintenance. We want to engage his hard-earned money to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. That is our mission. Not for this belly. For belly we refuse to go anywhere. You'll find in Kumbhamela, still there are sādhus, they are not going anywhere. And they are starving?
Hari-śauri: Baffled hope.
Prabhupāda: It will never be fulfilled, but still, they will make plan. The Napoleon made a plan. Hitler made a plan. Churchill made a plan. Gandhi made a plan. Mussolini made a plan. But the plan and planmaker—all washed away. Things are going on as it is. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya: (BG 18.66) "Don't make plan. Take to My plan. You'll be happy. I'll give you." This planmaking... Our government has got planning commission. The planning commission has brought people in such a condition that they are dying of starvation. And they are taking salary, big, big, fat salary. This is going on.
Dr. Patel: He thought that India is spoiled by American policy, Mr. Dulles's. And he spoiled the pitch, this Mr. Nehru, Nehru, being a flamboyant, highly arrogant man... And then they supported Pakistan, and Americans lost lot of money on these small wars. Instead of that, much money was given away to a poor country. it was Dulles who got United States to this present condition. We should have insulated this country after svaraj, not selling anything, not taking anything. Produce yourself or starve and die. People don't work when they get food like that.
Prabhupāda: I am simply surprised when I compare British days and nowadays. My practical experience—one of my maternal uncles, he's a very big, rich man. He was; he is not existing. So he was doing business, rice exporting. So in Calcutta, Chetra side, he had big, big godown full of rice. Not only he, other merchants also. But now they are empty. Similarly, from Bombay the oil seeds are being exported.
Prabhupāda: What was the condition at that time, general, during the war?
Gargamuni: Where? In Dacca?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Gargamuni: There was starvation immediately. There was no food in the whole city. I was living on capatis. That's all we had. Course, we were very nervous, so we couldn't eat so much anyway because there was so much going on in the city, bombings and firing.
Prabhupāda: And general public?
Gargamuni: And most of the army, they imported the army from Pakistan. These men were six feet tall. These were... They have a certain name.
Prabhupāda: Jatha? No.
Gargamuni: Jatha? No. Rathan or something.
Prabhupāda: Pathan. Pathan.
Gargamuni: Yes. Very huge men.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Evening everyone requires kerosene oil. He'll make another two rupees. So he's illiterate. He makes six rupees' profit, five rupees' profit, and if he can, ten rupees' profit. And takes some chana cho(?), some peanuts, sit down. In this way he's independently earning five to ten rupees. And educated? He's just like dog—"Give me job"—and unemployed and eating at the cost of father or welfare activities, welfare department, and moving like dog. Just see practically. The uneducated, he's earning because he knows that "If I go with application, what education I have got? Nobody will like me." He's hopeless in that way. "So let me try in my own way." He's earning ten rupees. And the other man, he's starving and taking help from the government, eating at the cost of father. This is education.
Prabhupāda: When the Britishers saw, "Now the soldiers are coming in national movement. There is no hope. Better break this and go peacefully so that our business may not be disturbed, our relation may not be disturbed. Make a Commonwealth and so on, so on, hodgepodge. And do as much harm as possible dividing Pakistan and Hindustan, all the food in Pakistan, East Bengal and West Pakistan, gehun(?) and rice." And this Hindustan in starvation, because they were getting gehun(?) from Punjab and rice from East Bengal, and that is stopped. They very clever. Greatest harm they did. And in politics made in such a way that these two people, Hindustan and Pakistan, always fight. So they have gained. You have not gained. Gandhi wanted Hindu-Muslim unity. They made so bitter relationship that they will perpetually fight. That is Gandhi's qualification. They are so great diplomats that "This man wants Hindu-Muslim unity, so make such arrangement that this... They fight will continuous. And give all the food to the Pakistani, so they will starve. Let them eat coal." The Hindustan has got coal mine. "So they will suffer for industrial supply, and they will suffer for food. And they will fight." British diplomats are very clever. Gandhi even offered that "Don't divide India. You better give it to Jhinna." But this commission, this Patita Lalan(?). "No, no," said, "It is... Otherwise, there will be conflagration of always fight. Let it be settled." Gandhi went to this point, that "If you think that without division India will be chaos, so you better give it to Jhinna in the hand. Don't give it to me." But they wanted division.
Guest (1): That is a British policy.
Prabhupāda: They wanted this division.
Prabhupāda: The philosophy is that jīvo jīvasya jīvanam. That doesn't not mean I can eat my son. There is discrimination. So here is an important animal, cow, who gives us milk. We drink milk. So it's not good. But if there is no other way—you have to starve—then what can be done?
Prabhupāda: If you go with sympathy that "So many hungry persons are here," then you will be beaten with shoes. That we know, That we should not disturb the arrangement of the hospital. We are saner. But you are disturbed. "Oh, so many people are starving. Let me give him some." You are rascal.
Hari-śauri: But why should we be callous to the sufferings of others?
Prabhupāda: Yes! Because the arrangement is there, hospital, he should not have food. Why shall I disturb him? I must be callous. That is intelligent. I know that when the hospital, the doctor's keeping in starvation, it is good for him. Why shall I disturb?
Hari-śauri: So then why do you go to the hospital when you're sick? When you're sick, then why do you take medicine and consult doctor? Why not be callous to that, too?
Prabhupāda: Callous means we... Callous means we can take treatment, but we cannot protest against the doctor, that "Why you are not giving me food?" We take treatment. That is saner. If the doctors ask me that "Don't eat," I take the treatment. I don't protest that "Why you are keeping me in starvation?" You are doing that, rascal, that "Why you are keeping me in starvation?" But one who knows things, he doesn't protest. That is Vaiṣṇava way. Tat te 'nukampāṁ su-samīkṣamāṇaḥ (SB 10.14.8). "Oh, my Lord, You are keeping me in this tribulation. It is Your great mercy." When Kṛṣṇa keeps me in starvation I take it as mercy. I don't protest. That is Vaiṣṇava. The saner person, when he is, the hospital, he is put into starvation, he takes, "Oh, doctor, you are so merciful you are curing me." And the rascal will protest, "Oh! You are keeping me in starvation?" And other friend comes, "Why you are keeping him...?" They're all rascals, all rascals, cent percent. They do not know what is arrangement in the hospital and they go, poke their nose in which is not their business.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Farm project is very nice. Kṛṣṇa gives. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). This is economic problem solved. And brāhmaṇa, brain problem solved, and kṣatriya, protection problem solved, and śūdra, labor problem solved. Four things combined together, live peacefully, happily. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Introduce this farm project. In America there is enough scope. So much land is lying vacant. And if there are jungles, cut the jungles; use the wood. Just like our Virginia. Big, big jungles. You cut the woods, you get ground, open field, and utilize the logs for house-making. Food, shelter, everything there. In Africa, everywhere, the nature's way. Pūrṇam idam (Īśopaniṣad, Invocation). Everything, complete arrangement by Kṛṣṇa. We have to little work. Śarīra-yātrāpi ca te na prasiddhyed akarmaṇaḥ. If you sit idly, then you'll starve. Otherwise everything is there. You work little and get your all necessities.
Prabhupāda: That book was named Cloister and Hearth. So get Bombay finished very quickly and book-printing, stock, propaganda. (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...society is growing on that principle.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This I want to increase more and more. No money in the bank. In the books. And as soon as there will be stock of book, it has to be sold. Otherwise you will starve.
Prabhupāda: In America, Australia, Africa, they can produce so much grain that ten times of the population as it is now can be maintained. Similarly, Australia can produce ghee. So by Kṛṣṇa's arrangement everything is all right, the economic problem. Why they create this situation and occasionally fight and finish the whole...? Such a rubbish civilization, rākṣasa, unnecessarily increasing military power and spending all the revenues. Russia spends sixty-five percent-unnecessarily. And still starving. So this is mūḍha, duṣkṛtina. Duṣkṛtina, only engaged in sinful activities, duṣkṛtina, and rascals, mūḍha, narādhama. He got the opportunity of this human life, and it misusing unnecessarily-narādhama.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By starving you at night, Śrīla Prabhupāda, your appetite in the noontime is becoming increased.
Prabhupāda: No, I should not take at night. At night, a little milk and barley water. Light.
Guest (2): Real socialism in there in Bhāgavatam.
Prabhupāda: In the Seventh Canto. That in your house if there is even a snake, see that he is not starving. This... Just see. If there is a lizard, if there is a snake, then see that he is not starving. You must give him food. Where is that communism?
Prabhupāda: And Kṛṣṇa says that "If anyone does not take up My instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā, then he does not get Me, and the result is that he'll again turn to this change of body, mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartma..." So they are not careful about these things, so what do they understand about Bhagavad-gītā? The real problem they do not touch. And the body will change, and he'll live in India or in America, say, for fifty years. He's busy. That is cats, just like these cats and dogs at night. Nobody has given him charge, but he is thinking "I am in charge of the road. Why this put-put motorcar, you have come here? Go on. Go on. Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" But who has given him charge? But he's starving, and people are throwing stone upon him, but he's thinking "I am in charge of this business. Why at night this car has come?" Dog mentality.
Yaśomatīnandana: Another, Home Minister, also is saying these same things, discourage the factories and industrialization...
Prabhupāda: This is ruination. Factory means ruination. Factory means destruction. And agriculture means construction. The father is going to the factory, and the children are starving-destruction.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is he doing?
Prabhupāda: To find out some job to fill up the belly. Otherwise he'll starve if he doesn't get any job. And he's finding out guru. Job-guru. Now do the needful. Otherwise everything will be spoiled. These rascal editorial... That Easy Journey, original, this (indistinct) Hayagrīva has changed so many things.
Prabhupāda: Our books are sold not for philosophical speculation but practical solution of the problems. The philosophical classes are now being closed everywhere.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, that's a fact.
Prabhupāda: The professors are starving. No students are interested in philosophy. Rather, they take admission in the technological class.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. In fact the government for a while had passed a law that prasādam could not be served to any more than so many people, such and such amount of people. They were prohibiting. I remember a couple of years ago we were trying to get āṭā or something, and they said, "Oh, no, you cannot have any big meetings where you feed people. We are short of things, so you cannot." "Food shortage," they said.
Prabhupāda: So they are eating. That means you want to keep people starving.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And every species is eating. We don't find that the birds have a food shortage.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is that about tuberculosis?
Prabhupāda: As much food he requires, he does not get.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Starving.
Prabhupāda: People do not get nowadays proper nutritious food.
Prabhupāda: One man is kneading flour, five sers, and he's getting two hundred rupees' salary, and paratha and halavā. This is management, going on. Now today it has been checked. They are eating paratha and our men are starving. He is getting two hundred rupees, three hundred rupees. This is management.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, it's not within our... Śrīla Prabhupāda, we only took you to the hospital in London because Your Divine Grace said we should take you there. Otherwise we were not going to do that on our own. We did not go there on our decision.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that starving and chanting and little gaṅgā-jala or... In this way let me pass away peacefully.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, first of all let us see this treatment out properly.
| Page Title: | Starvation (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Sureshwardas |
| Created: | 29 of Dec, 2008 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=157, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 157 |