So this battlefield, because Kṛṣṇa wanted to kill them, and the result was—you will find in the Bhagavad-gītā, they all attained svarūpa. Anyone who was killed, who died in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra, in the presence of Kṛṣṇa, they all attained their original, constitutional position, spiritual form. They all went back to home, back to Godhead, everyone. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is Absolute. Either His killing or His protecting, it is all the same. You don't think that Kṛṣṇa is killing. No. If anyone is killed by Kṛṣṇa, he immediately gets liberation: the liberation for which great great saintly persons, sages, they undergo severe austerities for life after life, simply by being killed, he gets that. So by becoming Kṛṣṇa's enemy, one gets this benefit. Just think over if you become Kṛṣṇa's friend, what is the benefit. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Spiritual form (Lectures)
Lectures
Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures
These are different stages. This bodily concept of life means senses. But when you transcend these senses, you come to the mental platform. When you transcend the mental platform, you come to the intellectual platform. When you come to the intellectual platform, when you transcend, then you come to the spiritual platform. That is spiritual form. There are different grades and steps.
ust like there was some discussion that the spirit has no form. How it can be? If this is, this body is my dress, how I have no form? How the dress has got form? My coat or shirt has got a form because my body has got a form. I have got two hands. Therefore my dress, my coat, has also two hands. My shirt has also two hands. So if this is dress, this body, as it is described in the Bhagavad-gītā—vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22)—so if it is dress, then I must have a form. Otherwise how this dress is made? It is very logical conclusion and very easy to understand. Unless I have got my own form, how the dress has got form? What is the answer? Anyone can say? How the original living entity can be without hands and legs? If this body's my dress... Just like you go to a tailor. He takes measurement of your hand, of your leg, of your chest. Then your coat or shirt is made. Similarly, when you have got a particular type of dress, it is to be assumed that I have got my form, spiritual form. Nobody can refute this argument. And apart from our so-called argument, we have to accept the statement of Kṛṣṇa. The... Because He's authority.
Woman devotee: What is māyā? I know that it's attractive...
Prabhupāda: Māyā means which drags you from Kṛṣṇa. That is māyā.
Woman devotee: Is it a spiritual form?
Prabhupāda: Whatever form may be, (it is) force. We shall see form later on. You just... Just like a police sends a warrant, arrest. You do not ask what is the form of the police, but here is warrant, you have to go. Force, that's all. Similarly, don't try to understand what is māyā's form, but you just feel her force, how she is acting.
Just like there are millions of molecules of shining matter in the sunshine. So if I remain as molecule in the brahmajyoti, that is also possible. The impersonalist wants that. Or if I enter into some spiritual planet and associate with the Supreme Personality of Godhead that is also another spiritual existence. Although both of them are spiritual existence, this spiritual existence is impersonal. To remain as molecular part of the Brahman rays or spiritual rays, that is impersonal. And to have a spiritual form just like Kṛṣṇa and Viṣṇu, that is another spiritual perfection. That is Vaiṣṇava philosophy.
So our knowledge is always imperfect. That we must admit. Foolishly, if we think we have acquired all sorts of knowledge, we have advanced in science, this is another foolishness. It is not possible. So when it is not possible to understand even the material things which we are daily seeing with our eyes and perception, what to speak of spiritual? And the Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is the Supreme spiritual form. So it is not possible for us to understand Kṛṣṇa by our limited senses. Then why we are bothering so much for Kṛṣṇa consciousness if it is not possible? The answer is ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ (CC Madhya 17.136). These imperfect senses cannot realize Kṛṣṇa as He is. Then the process is sevonmukhe hi jihvādau.
There are two living beings. One is Bhagavān, and the other is the living being as we are. That is the Vedic version. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Bhagavān means He is also a living being. He is not nirākāra. When we say bhagavān nirākāra, that means either we have no knowledge of Bhagavān or nirākāra means He is not a form like us. Our form and Kṛṣṇa's form—different. Kṛṣṇa is complete spiritual, divine, and we are, at the present moment, although we have got our spiritual form within this body, but because we have no vision of the spiritual form, we are taking this body as our form. This is called illusion. The spiritual form is there. That is realization of Brahman, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. The Vedic injunction is just to understand that I am not this body.
The Lord is supreme pure. In the Bhagavad-gītā, in the Tenth Chapter you'll find that Kṛṣṇa is described by Arjuna pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān: "You are the supreme pure." So if we want to serve the senses of the supreme pure, then we have to become pure also. Because without... Being pure means spiritual. Spiritual life means pure life, and material life means contaminated life. Just like we have got this body, material body. This is impure body. Therefore we suffer from disease, we suffer from old age, we suffer from birth, we suffer from death. And in our actual, pure form, spiritual form, there is no such suffering. There is no birth, there is no death, there is no disease and there is no old age.
We are changing our dresses as much as we change our old dress to new ones. Old order changes, yielding place to new. So this body, because we, in our spiritual body we have got form, hands and legs, therefore we develop a material body which has got hands, legs, etc. That we can understand very easily. Just like your coat and shirt cannot have hands and legs without you having your hands and legs; similarly, this material body which is considered as dress means it has developed on the personal body of the spiritual form. This is called saviśeṣa-vāda.
Amongst the trees, plants, there are two million forms. So there are hundred and thousands of forms in the material world. But in the spiritual world the form is sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha. Every form is eternal, full of knowledge and full of bliss. That is the difference between material world and spiritual world. Material world means... Although the varieties are there in the spiritual world... There are also trees, as we have got here trees. But there the forms are spiritual form, and here they are material form. Material form and spiritual form, what is the difference? The difference is that just like a living being. I can ask any of my disciple to do something. He'll do it. But this microphone, it has also a form, but if I want microphone, "Please do this," he cannot, it cannot do because it is material. It can mechanical, give some mechanical service, one only, but it cannot do any other thing. A man can speak or he can dance or he can become a thief, he can become so many—because he's living. That is the difference between material form and spiritual form.
There are eight kinds of images recommended in the śāstra, in the Vedic literatures. So any kind of images can be worshiped because God is everywhere. Now, you can say that why God should be worshiped in images, not in His original form, spiritual form? Yes. That may be a question. But I cannot see spiritual form. That is my difficulty. My senses are so imperfect that I cannot see God immediately in His spiritual form. Therefore, out of His causeless mercy, He appears before you as you can see you, Him. We cannot see just now with our material eyes except stone, earth, wood, something tangible. Therefore He becomes... These forms are called arcāvatāra, incarnation of arcā, conveniently presented by the Supreme Lord so that we can actually see.
Now if you say, Kṛṣṇa is in the Goloka Vṛndāvana, far, far away from here. How He accepts?" That is the answer is here, that sarvataḥ pāṇi-pādam. He has got hands. That is the Vedic injunction. Apāṇi-pādo javana-gṛhītaḥ. The Absolute Brahman has no hands and legs, but He can accept anything, He can walk everywhere. Just contradictory. Paśyaty acakṣuḥ. He has no eyes. but He can see everything. This is the difference. He has got His form. That is spiritual form, that is not this material, limited form, but He has got His form. One who does not understand His unlimited form, Brahman form, sarvataḥ... Everywhere He can go, everywhere He can see, everywhere He can accept whatever you offer. Everywhere He can walk. That is His form, but He is not formless.
When there is such a statement in the Vedas that "The Supreme Spirit is nirākāra, or without form," that does not mean He has no form. He has His form, but that is spiritual form, sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). When it is negativated, that means the negative idea is of this inferior energy. So these things we should know. And if you know, then the result will be sarvathā vartamāno 'pi, wherever you stay, Sarvathā vartamāno 'pi, you are mukta.
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
So impersonal concept of God is imperfect conception of God. That is not perfect. They are puzzled because Kṛṣṇa, God, is sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha (Bs. 5.1). They cannot imagine that a form of sac-cid-ānanda can be possible. That is their lack of knowledge. But we learn from Vedic literature that God has got form, complete form, like us. Just like Kṛṣṇa, you see, He has got also two hands, He is also playing flute, with consort, Rādhārāṇī. He has also got two hands, nice face, nice head. Everything is there. Only the ingredients are different. These ingredients, at the present moment... I have also got form, spiritual form. You have also spiritual form. Now that spiritual form is covered by material dress. Just like my body is covered by this shirt. You cannot see the actual body. Similarly, the spiritual body is now covered by this material body; therefore we cannot see.
But you have to do it under the order of the spiritual master and the order of the śāstras. Because unless you practice, how you can... But when it is ripened by practicing, practicing, when one is accustomed... Say by practicing he develops love for God. Then, when he's in love for God, he cannot do without it. Automatically he will rise early in the morning, automatically he'll do everything. It is simply the question of time to arrive to that ripened stage.So this is the process. That we are serving here Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is also very kind. Because if Kṛṣṇa in His spiritual form, He is present... Of course, there is no difference. For Kṛṣṇa, there is no difference, material and spiritual, because everything is spiritual ultimately. But still, taking it accepted that we cannot see spiritual form at the present moment. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ (CC Madhya 17.136). Because our senses are not blunt, we cannot see the spiritual form of Kṛṣṇa at the present moment. Therefore because we cannot see Kṛṣṇa with your present eyes, because we cannot serve Kṛṣṇa with our present hand, therefore Kṛṣṇa appears in a way so that we can see, we can touch. That is Kṛṣṇa.
Pradyumna: "Therefore, one who attains full knowledge of these different rasas, which are the basic principles of activities, can understand the false representations of the original rasas which are reflected in the material world. The learned scholar seeks to relish the real rasa in the spiritual form. In the beginning he desires to become one with the Supreme. Thus, less intelligent transcendentalists cannot go beyond this conception of becoming one with the spirit whole, without knowing of the different rasas. In this śloka, it is definitely stated that spiritual rasa, which is relished even in the liberated stage, can be experienced in the literature of the..."
Prabhupāda: Rasāmalayam.
So we should be very much intelligent that "How long we shall continue this repetition of birth and death and change of body?" Any intelligent man... That is the prerogative of the human form of life. That is the prerogative. He can stop this process, repetition of birth and death. He can get his real, actual spiritual form again and be blissful, full knowledge and eternal life. That is the whole process. So we should not miss this.
Form and formless. When we speak of formless, we speak that God or even living entity, all of us, we have no material form. Just like we have got this form, but this form is temporary and it will never come again. As soon as this form is finished, I will have to take another form. That form may not be exactly like this. So this is the formula for everyone. But for Kṛṣṇa, He has no material form. He has got spiritual form. Therefore His form is eternal. We do not remember our past lives, incidences, because the form has changed. But Kṛṣṇa remembers because His form does not change. The evidence is the Bhagavad-gītā.
So this universal form... The impersonalists, they are very much fond of this universal form. It is very favorable. But what is this universal form? This universal form is external expansion of the supreme form, Kṛṣṇa. You can understand it very easily, that we all living entities, we are a spiritual form, very minute. Materially we cannot understand. But there is a form. We get the information from the śāstra, although we cannot see it with our material eyes.
So as our this material body is not our real form... The real form is within this body, spiritual form. This body is explained as the dress. The dress is made when there is a real form. Just like you have got coat. Because you have got hands, the coat has got a hand.
So here it is said yadā mṛdhe kaurava-sṛñjayānām. In the fight all the parties who died, they all obtained vīra-gatim. And most of them they achieved svarūpa. That is described in a different place. Svarūpa means his original, spiritual form. All the soldiers or the kings who died, and at the time of death who were seeing Kṛṣṇa—Kṛṣṇa was there in the battlefield—all of them achieved their original, spiritual form. Svarūpam. And those who did not see Kṛṣṇa, they got promoted vīra-gatim, in the heavenly planet. So fight is not always bad. If it is dharma-yuddha, according to the prescribed rules, not whimsical fight, dharma-yuddha, then there is gain.
Those who are in the spiritual world, they are nitya-siddha. Nitya-mukta. Nitya-mukta means they never come in this material world. Just like Kṛṣṇa is nitya-mukta śuddha. Similarly, the associates of Kṛṣṇa who come with Him... Just like the gopīs or the cowherd boys, and so..., the cows, calves, they are all nitya-siddha, nitya-mukta. They come with Kṛṣṇa. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa. They are in the spiritual form, ānanda-cinmaya-rasa, enjoying always spiritual bliss in the association of Kṛṣṇa.
So these are simply samples of our perfection. By yogic practice we can regain some of our sample liberty, but actually when we are in our spiritual form, identity, we have got such liberty, we can go anywhere, we can do whatever we like, as Kṛṣṇa can do. Of course, Kṛṣṇa is the supreme person. His power, his liberty is unlimited. Our power and liberty is limited.
Our real identity is eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa. Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). So we want to keep that identity, and we want to serve Him eternally. Eternally means, now we are in this material world, we are being trained up how to serve Kṛṣṇa. This Deity worship—this is training. The same thing will continue when you go to Vaikuṇṭha or Vṛndāvana. The same way we shall personally serve. Here, Kṛṣṇa... This is also personally. But due to my imperfectness, I cannot see Kṛṣṇa in His actual spiritual form, sac-cid-ānanda-vigraha (Bs. 5.1). Therefore Kṛṣṇa has assumed a form which you can approach. It is for your facility.
So, the peacock plumes, they look like eyes, painted. But it has no power to see. Similarly, if we do not see the forms of the Lord, just like in this temple we are seeing, then these eyes are to be considered as painted eyes. Not real eyes. Simply just appearing like eyes. It has no use. The human form of life, the eyes are there, particular eyes, to see the forms of the Lord eye to eye. And because our present position is that with these material eyes we cannot see the Lord in His spiritual form, therefore the Lord has kindly appeared before us in a manner in which we can see Him. The forms of the Lord is not imagination.
So Māyāvādī philosophers, when they come to know that this is māyā's place, so therefore they want to make it varietyless, formless. This is their theory. So, but that is not the solution. This is māyā. This form or no form, this is māyā. When we develop our real spiritual form and enjoy in company and association of the Supreme Lord varieties, just like Vṛndāvana, variety... In Vṛndāvana the cows, the trees, the water, they are also spiritual.
His vigraha, His form, is not like our form. And because we do not know that Kṛṣṇa has got His spiritual form, sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ, therefore ordinary man thinks that "Kṛṣṇa is also a man like me." Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum aśritam (BG 9.11). One who does not know what is Kṛṣṇa, he says, "Kṛṣṇa is also a man like me. Kṛṣṇa also gets a body like me." But that is not the fact. Those who do not know about Kṛṣṇa... Because to know Kṛṣṇa, that is not ordinary thing.
So our material position and spiritual position—the ultimate point is sound. And this sound is presented in its original spiritual form. That is called Veda, śabda-brahma. Tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye. This brahma means śabda-brahma. The śabda-brahma was imparted or vibrated by Kṛṣṇa in the heart of Brahmā.
Mukti means the..., to get out of the clutches of the stringent material laws. That is called mukti. We are at the present moment conditioned, so many conditions. So mukti means to live without condition. That is called mukti. The mukti definition is given in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: muktir sva-rūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ, muktir hitvānyathā rūpaṁ sva-rūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ. This is called mukti. We are not in the svarūpa. Svarūpa means spiritual form. That is called svarūpa.
Haṁsadūta: Prabhupāda, you said that when a person changes original spiritual form, just like the Viṣṇudūtas, they have their four-handed form. Does that mean that they will never rise up to the state of associating with Kṛṣṇa in two-handed form? What does it mean, "original form"?
Prabhupāda: Original form, two-handed.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
Now, the Lord's body is eternal, blissful and full of knowledge, and Śaṅkarācārya says that prākṛta-sattvera vikāra. "This body of Kṛṣṇa or Lord Rāma, when They come," according to Māyāvāda philosophy, that "actually, the Brahman, the Supreme Absolute Truth, has no form, but when They assume form, They take help of this material nature." That is not a fact. They come in Their own spiritual form. That is confirmed by Caitanya Mahāprabhu.
So it is very easily understandable. Unless the original, the spiritual spark, has form, how this form can take place? This is shirt and coat. Just try to understand. If you have no form, then how the shirt and coat can take form? From argument. So therefore, living entity is not formless, neither Kṛṣṇa, or the supreme living entity, is formless. Both of them form, having form, but not this form. This is temporary form. The real form is spiritual form. Therefore nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13).
Then Kṛṣṇa describes so many things. Out of that one verse is that atha vā bahunaitena kiṁ jñātena tavārjuna: "My dear Arjuna, I have described in nutshell many of My potencies in displaying this manifested world, but you can understand one thing, that by one part, by manifestation of one of My part, I am..., I have entered all the universe and all the hearts of living entities." Just like by one reflection of the sun, if you put millions of pots with water, by one of the potencies of the sun, you'll find the sun is represented in every pot. During noontime, by one of the potencies of the sun, you can feel, five thousand miles away, the sun is just over your head. So, as it is possible even for a material object, so this Kṛṣṇa, the supreme spiritual form, He has got many potencies which we cannot calculate. In the Vedic literature it is said: parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate... (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport).
Sri Brahma-samhita Lectures
These are possible when the body is made of ānanda-cinmaya-rasa. This body is material. It is not ānanda-cinmaya-rasa. The material body is different from the spiritual body. That they do not know. So when the Vedas says nirākāra, "formless," that means He has no material form; He has got spiritual form. That spiritual form means full of bliss, ānanda.
Festival Lectures
We are simply leading the life of cats and dogs, without any knowledge that we can achieve that perfection of life when there will be no more birth, no more death. We do not understand even that there is possibility of amṛtatvam. But everything is possible. Amṛtatvam. Nobody wants to die. That's a fact. Nobody wants to become old man, nobody wants to become diseased. This is our natural inclination. Why? Because originally, in our spiritual form, there is no birth, no death, no old age, no disease.
Philosophy Discussions
Prabhupāda: Because he is constitutionally spiritual being, he is not any product of this material world. He is part and parcel of the Supreme One. But he is embodied by the material elements, and the material elements requires change. It becomes old. Just like our shoes, our dress, it becomes old. I can have one shirt and coat, but as soon as I change the body, the shirt and coat is no more fitting the body, so I have to change. So material life means to change. It is called jagat. Jagat means changing. But we are eternal, the same spirit soul. That this material life is not very happy, because it will change. Even if we are in the very comfortable condition of life or in miserable condition of life, it will change to better or lower grade of life. That is going on. So in order to save ourselves from the repetition of changing body, if we want to remain in our original, eternal, spiritual form, we must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and then we are relieved from this rotten business of repetition of birth, death, old age and disease.
Hayagrīva: I think the problem with all of these is that they cannot conceive of spiritual form. When they speak of form they are thinking that there must necessarily be matter involved. Aquinas believed that the Augustinian and Platonic doctrines of the complete independence of the soul from matter or the material body denied man's substantial unity. That is, man is body and soul. He is a particular type of soul in a particular type of body.
Prabhupāda: It..., it is the same argument, that when you are dressed it appears that you are not different from the dress. The coat is moving, the pants is moving, but actually it is completely different from the person who is putting on the coat and shirt.
Hayagrīva: So in other words they, he, he actually had no idea of spiritual form as such.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.
Prabhupāda: Original form, that is the form of the spirit.
Hayagrīva: Of the spirit.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And the form of the body takes place on account of the form of the spirit. This is very nice example. The cloth has no form, but when it is cut according to the form of the gentleman, it takes a form. Similarly, matter has no form. When it is coated on the spiritual form of the soul, it takes the form. This is very easy to understand.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We call it māyā. So that can... The body and soul in the material world is there, and therefore the aim of life is how to separate this soul from material body and remain in his original, spiritual form. That is the whole ideal objective for human life, because as long as he remains attached to the body, and... But he has to change the body. That is our practical experience also. We are changing always the body, one after another, and if we give up our attachment for this body, then we are liberated. That is called mukti, to remain in a spiritual body.
| Page Title: | Spiritual form (Lectures) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Sureshwardas |
| Created: | 18 of Aug, 2010 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=39, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 39 |