Spiritual form (Conv. and Letters)

Expressions researched:
"spiritual form"

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now, one point is that earning or begging-beg, borrow or steal—that is not happiness. Because to acquire a standard of happiness you have to beg, you have to earn, or you have to steal, so that is not happiness.

Guest (1): No. What I am saying is that as long as a man lives...

Prabhupāda: But we are not talking of "as long as man lives." He lives eternally.

Guest (1): Yes, it is eternal.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): And it is eternal bondage there.

Prabhupāda: No. Bondage for so long you are in this material bondage.

Guest (1): In some form...

Prabhupāda: No, first of all you have to understand in the spiritual...

Guest (1): Yes, even there is spiritual form, one has to live in certain form, without which...

Prabhupāda: That is natural form. That is not a conventional form. Just like you have dressed yourself with black coat. It is not your natural form. So material...

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Guest (1): That is what I say. Any spirit will have certain form.

Prabhupāda: Not certain form. He has got his original form.

Guest (1): Original means all the... We are living from the eternal...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Eternally you have got a form.

Guest (1): From the eternal we have got certain form.

Prabhupāda: That is material. Past certain form, that is material. But you have got an original spiritual form.

Guest (1): Spiritual form is there but due to the bond man has taken this form.

Prabhupāda: This form is being developed according to your mental condition.

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: Spirit has got no material form. Spirit has got spiritual form.

Guest (1): Spiritual form but yet also it has got a material form.

Prabhupāda: Because he has come... Just like you have accepted this kind of coat. I have got a different kind of coat. She has got a different kind of coat.

Guest (1): Yes. According to that there is...

Prabhupāda: Yes. So as I liked, so I have got shirt and coat. This is material. But originally, spiritual form is the same as you have got, I have got, she has got a form, everyone. That is original form.

Room Conversation -- January 17, 1971, Allahabad:

Guest (1): Now, our question... (indistinct) We try. Now, question of earning also, the definition is not here, being...

Prabhupāda: The question of earning comes so long you have got this material form. But from the spiritual form there is no question of earning.

Guest (1): In what way we will live in that spiritual form?

Prabhupāda: That you have to know. That you have to know. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitābhiḥ (Bs. 5.37). That spiritual form means complete blissfulness, complete knowledge, and eternity.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1971, Gorakhpur:

Prabhupāda: Avatāra means avatāran. (Hindi) What is the meaning of descent? What is the meaning of descent? Coming down. Coming down. Yes.

Guest: In the sense of quality or in the sense of form.

Prabhupāda: The sense of form. Because your brain is congested with impersonalism, you cannot understand what is spiritual form. That is your defect.

Guest: That is the trouble.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (Hindi) All hodgepodge things should be...

Room Conversation -- August 17, 1971, London:

Haṁsadūta: And Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the spiritual world, everything is composed of cintāmaṇi, just like here everything is composed of atoms. So suppose someone develops a spiritual form in the spiritual sky. That form, I mean, that cintāmaṇi, they are living entities also? Are they conscious entities or is that an expansion of the jīva soul's own potency? Just like if someone develops the form of a boy, cowherds boy with Kṛṣṇa, is that an expansion of his potency, of that living spirit soul's potency?

Prabhupāda: That you consider. That we imagine.

Haṁsadūta: That's why I'm asking. Or like in this world, so many living entities are forming of one spiritual form.

Prabhupāda: In one sense it is right. They are spiritual molecules. Yes. Here also, spiritual molecules, but here it is called material because there is no sense of Kṛṣṇa.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1972, New York:

Prabhupāda: ...because you have got material eyes. Because your, you have got your material eyes, you cannot see the spiritual form. Therefore He kindly appears to be in a material body so that you can see. This is the point. Because He has kindly made Himself just fit for your seeing, that does not mean He is..., that He has material body.

Room Conversation with Kenneth Keating, U.S. Ambassador to India -- October 14, 1972, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: The knowledge which are imparting from universities, they are not perfect knowledge. And this human form of body is the opportunity to understand the position of the soul and how he is transmigrating from one body to another, what is happening next. In this way, in this human form of body, we can understand this science, science of soul. Unfortunately, no education is there to understand this science. So in other words, it may be taken that the modern civilization is killing the prerogative of the human being. He has got a chance to understand himself and to stop. He can stop this repetition of birth and death. He can remain in a spiritual form in the spiritual kingdom or with God, but these things are unknown to him, because there is no discussion in any university or any institution of knowledge.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- March 24, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: What is perfection?

Prabhupāda: Perfection means you are living entity, you are living entity you are rotting in this material world, get free from this material world, go back to home. That is saṁsiddhi. We are suffering so much on account of being in the material world. Tri-tāpa-yatana (?), threefold miseries. And everyone is trying to get out of the miseries, but that is not possible in the material world. Therefore you get your spiritual form, and go back to Kṛṣṇa and dance with him. That is saṁsiddhi. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9). This is saṁsiddhi. "After giving up this body, no more accepting any more material body." Then, he's zero? No. Mām eti. "He comes to Me, to dance with Me, to play with Me." That is saṁsiddhi. Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ.

Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: He says the important thing is the basic principles. If you accept the basic principle, for example that the soul has a form, then we can discuss many many things afterwards.

Prabhupāda: Yes, soul has a form. (French)

Yogeśvara: He's asking is the form of the soul material?

Prabhupāda: No, spiritual. (French)

Yogeśvara: He says it's an idea that he finds difficult to understand, spiritual form.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that requires knowledge. That requires how to get that knowledge. He has no such knowledge.

Room Conversation -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: The whole Vedic education system how to stop acceptance of material body. That is called mukti. Mukti, the definition of mukti is given in the Bhāgavata, muktir hitvānyathā rūpam. Mukti means when one is able to give up another form of body. He has got his own body, spiritual body, but so long as he has to accept another form of body, he is conditioned. Bhāgavata, muktir hitvānyathā rūpam sva-rūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ. Mukti means to stay in his original spiritual form. Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to educate people how to achieve the original consciousness, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Morning Walk -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: There are so many planets, so many different standard of life. Nothing. They do not know anything. (German)

Guest (1) (German man): But the other planets has a more spiritual form than our planet.

Prabhupāda: No. Material forms. Just like in the water, the fish is there. That is also material form. But you cannot live within the water. Neither the fish cannot live on the land. So in different planets there are different types of atmosphere and different types of body also. You cannot go to the sun planet. You cannot go to the moon planet because that is a different atmosphere. But there are living entities. They have got their suitable body.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Yoga student: That is the material aspect, absolutely.

Prabhupāda: Therefore in Islam religion the form is rejected because it will come to that. As soon as they think of form, they think of this material form, beautiful face of woman. That is degradation. Therefore we are strict not to conceive material form. That is Vedic conception. Apāni-pādaḥ javano grahītā: "He has no legs and no hands." This is... means denying the form. And next he says, the Vedas say, javano grahītā: "He can accept whatever you offer to Him." That means God has no material form, but He has form; otherwise how He can accept? How He can understand my love? So therefore in the original Islamism the form is not accepted. So that is Vedic description, form and formless. Formless means no material form, and form means spiritual form, simultaneous. Just like I am, you are. I am within the body, but I am not this body. This form not I am. But wherefrom the form of the body came into existence? Because I have got form. The sweater has got hand because I have got hand. The sweater is the covering. If I haven't got form, then how the sweater has got hand, the pant has got leg? So the pant practically is not the leg. The real leg is within the pant. Similarly, this is not my form; this is like pant, leg of the pant or hand of the coat. Real form is within, asmin dehe. That is not material form. If the real form I could see, you could see, then there was no controversy, the spirit. But they cannot see. Therefore they say "formless." If it is formless, then how the outer form comes out? How it can be? The tailor makes the coat because the man has got form. As the coat has got hands, so it is concluded that the man for whom the coat is made, he has got form. How you can say without form? The difficulty is that we can see the form of the coat, but we cannot see the form of the man. That is my defect with the eyes, not that the God is formless. God is not formless.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Atreya Ṛṣi: When the body changes, Śrīla Prabhupāda, how is it...? When our coat, size of the coat changes because our body grows bigger, the size of the coat is bigger. Shirt is bigger.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is spiritual form. It can take... It can become bigger, smaller, like that.

Atreya Ṛṣi: But the form is the same. (break)

Prabhupāda: This has been... Body has been described as the dress. So the form of the dress cannot be there unless there is form of the person who puts on the dress. How can you deny it? Because the dress has got form, the person who puts on the dress must have form. How can you deny this argument? You cannot say "formless." It may be, you cannot see it. That is different thing. But it must be form and individual.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1975, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: That is Vedic conception. Apāni-pādo javano grahitā. "He has no legs, no hands." This is denying the form. Next he says, Vedas says, javana grahitā. "He can accept whatever you offer to Him." That means He has, God has, no material form, but He has form, otherwise how He can accept it? How I can understand by love? So, therefore the original Islam the form is not accepted. That is Vedic description, form and formless. Formless means no material form and form means spiritual form, simultaneous. Just like I am, you are, I am within the body, but I am not this body. This form, I am not I am, but what from the form of the body has come into existence? Because I have got form. The sweater has got hand, because I have got hand. The sweater is the covering. If I haven't got form, then how the sweater has got hand, the pant has got leg? But the pant practically is not the leg, the real leg is within the pant. Similarly, this is not my form, this is like pant, leg of the pant or hand of the coat. Real form is within.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1975, Tehran:

Devotee: When the body changes, Śrīla Prabhupāda, does that mean that also that the real form changes?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee: Because the body...

Prabhupāda: No, body changes but the spiritual form is the same.

Devotee: He is always the same. How is it that when our coat, size of the coat, changes because the body grows bigger the size of the coat is bigger?

Prabhupāda: That is spiritual form. You can take.... It can become bigger, smaller, like that.

Devotee: But the form is the same.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee: What is filling the body is consciousness. The consciousness...

Prabhupāda: You may have a big coat or small coat, overcoat, the form is the same. But for convenience (indistinct) or small coat. This has been, body has been, described as the dress so the form of the dress cannot be there unless there is form of the person who puts on the dress. How can I deny it? Because the dress has got form, the person who puts on the dress must have form. How can I deny this argument? You cannot say formless. Maybe you cannot see, that is the way, but the person must be form.

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: We also say that the God has got form but not form like this.

Jesuit: No, he hasn't got form in Aristotle's idea of the word form either, his higher wathic(?) theory of matter and form. In a sense, form there means spirit and so...

Prabhupāda: Yes, spiritual form.

Jesuit: ...but we're not using it in that sense. When you're using the word form, you mean a material form like a shape, a body...

Prabhupāda: No, no, I don't say material form, spiritual form.

Jesuit: Well, I haven't understood you then. God, you say, has a form.

Prabhupāda: Spiritual form.

Jesuit: Aḥ well, matter of words, I can understand that. He has a...

Prabhupāda: Not this form.

Jesuit: No, not material. He's not matter, He's pure...

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Jesuit: We would say He's pure spirit...

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes, that is stated in the...

Room Conversation with writer, Sandy Nixon -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Therefore you cannot see the spirit, and God is Supreme Spirit. Therefore, to show kindness upon you, He has appeared just like wood and stone so that you can see.

Woman: Oh, I see.

Prabhupāda: He is everything. He is spirit and matter, everything. But you cannot see Him as spiritual identity. Therefore He has appeared in material form so that you can see. This is Deity. He is God, but you cannot see Him in His original spiritual form at the present moment. Therefore, out of His unbounded mercy, He has appeared before you just like made of wood and stone so that you can see.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Evening Darsana -- May 15, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: If the dress has got hand and leg, then the person who is putting on the dress, he must have hand and... So this is the conclusion. When in the śāstra it is said that "God has no leg, no hand," that... In the Upaniṣad it said that "He has no leg, but He can walk swifter than anyone." So that means He has got a different type of leg. And that is summarized, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). His vigraha, His form, is not material form. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśri... (BG 9.11). Because Kṛṣṇa comes as a human being, the foolish mūḍha-mūḍha means rascal-rascal thinks that "He is also one of us." But Kṛṣṇa says, "No, no," sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā (BG 4.6), "I come here in My original, spiritual form." Sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā. So these are to be understood. So manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3). Because they cannot understand—they cannot make distinction what is spiritual, what is material-therefore they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa.

1947 to 1965 Correspondence

Letter to Sir -- Delhi 15 April, 1961:

Present advancement of material civilization, in the opinion of the Indian sages, is going in the wrong way because it has neglected the spiritual side of human constitution. All living beings are spiritual sparks covered by material encagement. In his pure spiritual form a living being eternal, cognizant and blissful, but being covered by matter he is suffering threefold miseries of material existence.

1968 Correspondence

Letter to Janardana -- Los Angeles 21 January, 1968:

When one can understand nirguna he can understand nirakara, also. This akar or form of material existence is temporary. When we get out of this temporary changes of different forms as we are transmigrating from one form to another and be placed in our real spiritual form, or purified our existence, that is called nirakara. Or in other words nirakara means absence of material form.

Letter to Purusottama -- Los Angeles 2 February, 1968:

The beginning of service is to engage our hearing organs, and receive the transcendental message by aural reception. And whenever we are mature in receiving the transcendental message from books like Bhagavad-gita, and Srimad-Bhagavatam, via media the transparent bona fide Spiritual Master, then we are able to chant or engage our tongue in the service of the Lord, being engaged in the service of the Lord. The material covering of our senses becomes inactive and actual spiritual form of activity becomes manifest. I very much appreciate your development of this spiritual perception, and Krishna has given you a good chance in the matter of your proposed dealings with the U.N.

1969 Correspondence

Letter to Rupanuga -- Los Angeles 8 August, 1969:

In further reference to your question about the form of the spirit soul of the conditioned living entity, there is a spiritual form always, but it develops fully only when the living entity goes back to Vaikuntha. This form develops according to the desire of the living entity. Until this perfectional stage is reached, the form is lying dormant like the form of the tree is lying dormant in the seed. Regarding the higher school of theology, according to the Vedic system it is not at all difficult.

1970 Correspondence

Letter to Gurudasa -- Los Angeles 16 May, 1970:

The simple understanding is as we are transmigrating from one material form to another, so actually in this material world we have no fixed form. Similarly when we are spiritually perfect we develop the spiritual form to live eternally in the spiritual world. In the spiritual world there are exactly the same things as we see here; namely the land, water, trees, birds, beasts, human beings, etc., and all of them are spiritual as all the varieties here are material.

So these things can be understood when one is advanced in self-realization. The real form of the living entity is eternal servant of Krsna. Now this spiritual form is developed when he enters into the spiritual world.