Some way or other (Conversations)

Expressions researched:
"one way or another" |"one way or other" |"some way or another" |"some way or other" |"someway or another" |"someway or other"

1967 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Hayagrīva: All right. Are there any other... Is there any other information about Haridāsa?

Prabhupāda: The life history of Haridāsa is that he was born in a Muhammadan family. Someway or other he became a devotee and was chanting 300,000 times Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu made him ācārya, the authority of chanting. Therefore we glorify him, "Nāmācārya Haridāsa Ṭhākura ki jaya." Because he was made the ācārya, the authority of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then, when Lord Caitanya took sannyāsa, Haridāsa Ṭhākura desired that "My dear Lord, You are leaving Nabadwip, then what is the use of my life? Either you take me or let me die." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, "No. Why shall you die? You come with Me." So He took him to Jagannātha Purī. At Jagannātha Purī, because he considered himself born of Muhammadan family, he did not enter. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu gave him a place at Kāśīnātha Miśra's house and there he was chanting and Caitanya Mahāprabhu's sending him prasādam. In that way he was passing his days. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu used to come and see him daily, and one day he died like this.

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation about Marriage -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Prabhupāda: She likes this... (microphone noise) But also marriage problem, one must have a choice. So if we force something, that is not (chuckling) good. At least, in your country it is not... Of course, in your country, the husband...the boys and girls are, I mean to say, not major, whatever the parents force, that is another thing. When the boys and girls are grown up, it is not possible. Just like in India, there was svayaṁvara. Svayaṁvara means the girl will select her own bridegroom. That was allowed to princess. Princess, highly qualified princess. So the father would make a challenge, that "This is the condition. One who can fulfill this condition, I'll offer my daughter to him." So this was generally amongst the princes. So there was great fight. (laughs) Just like Arjuna. Arjuna married Draupadī. You know the condition? Her father made condition: there was a fish on the ceiling and one wheel was circling. So one has to pierce the eyes of the fish through the hole of the circle. And he cannot see directly. He has to see down. There is a reflection in waterpot. In this way, he had to pierce. (laughs) "In this way, he has to fix, and in one stroke the eye will be pierced. One who is successful, my daughter is for him." So nobody could, except only Arjuna. He was such expert bowman that he... Similarly, Lord Rāmacandra also made... In the palace there was a big bow. It was all hardened, made of iron. So long standing it was there. So one day, Sītā was sweeping the floor, and with her left hand she pushed the bow. It was very heavy. Nobody could... It was very weighty, heavy. And with her left hand she pushed it. So her father said, "Oh, this is wonderful girl. She can lift this. Nobody can lift it and with her left hand she pushed it? Oh, then my son-in-law will be he who can break this." (laughter) So he made a challenge that anyone, any prince, who will come and break this bow, he'll be my son-in-law. So it was only possible by Rāmacandra, Lord Rāmacandra. So these challenges were made amongst the kṣatriyas. Otherwise, generally, the parents would select. We were married. Whatever our parents selected, we accepted. I did not like my wife, (laughs) but gradually, I was accustomed. I was obliged to like. That's all. (laughs) That is the Indian system. You like or not like, you have to accept it. That's all. The psychology is that the girls, generally, before attaining puberty if she loves one boy, she cannot forget him. That is her psychology. And a boy also, when he is grown up, the first girl he makes choice, he also cannot forget. Therefore, by some way or other they are mixed up.

Talk -- October 18, 1968, Seattle:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Take some prasādam.

Guest (2): Thank you very much.

Prabhupāda: So you did not question anything, if you have got any doubts?

Guest (2): I beg your pardon? (devotees explain Prabhupāda's question) Do I have any doubts? Divine Master, you have made me able to read my heart. I have no pretensions to speak one way or another. There is no doubt.

Devotee: She said there is no doubt.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. (mild laughter) (end)

Interview with LA Times Reporter About Moon Trip -- December 26, 1968, Los Angeles:

Reporter: I think what... I think we have to carry it further enough so that we can tell whether, for one thing whether I have a story or not. If it's felt if you have doubts that it can be done, that's one thing. But if you have great confidence that it can never be done except by changing one's body...

Prabhupāda: No, I don't say that. I say that in order to enter into the... Just try to understand me clearly. In order to enter the moon planet you have got to prepare yourself for a suitable body. Is that clear? If you, by some way or other, you make that suitable body you can enter. But the present body which you have manufactured, the spacesuit, is not suitable.

Reporter: Okay, then when I try to carry it further, if they use the present body and do, are successful...

Prabhupāda: That they could not do till now. That is future contemplation. Because even going up to sixty miles off they could not. Therefore this is not suitable. Now you say also, just like they didn't have the ticket. The further arrangement is still waiting. That means this is not suitable. This is... We just try to convince you.

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 11, 1969, New York:

Prabhupāda: Yes, you can... Because... Have you seen how the... You have no experience here in your country. Have you got any experience? But in India we have got experience how in the morning the cowboy takes some food from the mother and with the cows he goes to the field. The cows are let loose on the grazing ground. They are enjoying, and this cowboy is sometimes singing. The flute, Kṛṣṇa's flute is because He is cowboy. The cowboys still play in that flute. In India you'll find. Because the cows are let... They are doing their own work, and what this boy will do? They are playing. There are many cowherds boys, they are playing. Sometimes playing on flutes, sometimes sporting, sometimes eating. So Kṛṣṇa was exactly doing like that. All the cowboy friend went with Him. Kṛṣṇa was, of course, a very rich man's son. His father was very rich. So He used to take with Him very nice foodstuff, lugdoo, kacaurī. And other, His poor friends, they were taking capātīs, dry capātīs. (laughs) So they were enjoying, dividing, "Your food, my food, his food." And sometimes there was some trouble in the forest because Kamsa was after Kṛṣṇa to kill Him. He was sending his assistants. So some asura would come, Bakāsura, Aghāsura, and Kṛṣṇa would kill. And the boys would return and narrate the story to their mother. "Oh, my dear mother! Such and such thing happened and Kṛṣṇa killed it! Very..." (laughter) The mother will, "Oh, yes, our Kṛṣṇa is very wonderful!" (laughter) So Kṛṣṇa was their enjoyment. That's all. The mother is speaking of Kṛṣṇa, the boy is speaking of Kṛṣṇa. So therefore they did not know anything but Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa. Whenever there is some trouble, "Oh Kṛṣṇa." When there is fire, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa." That is the beauty of Vṛndāvana. Their mind is absorbed in Kṛṣṇa. Not through philosophy. Not through understanding, but natural love. "Kṛṣṇa is our village boy, our relative, our friend, our lover, our master." Some way or other, Kṛṣṇa. That is the beauty. Therefore Śukadeva Gosvāmī is describing the playing of the boys.

Room Conversation with Allen Ginsberg -- May 13, 1969, Columbus, Ohio:

Prabhupāda: Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura, in his previous life, he elevated himself to the loving stage of Kṛṣṇa. Not exactly, just previous, bhāva. It is called bhāva, ecstasy. But some way or other, he could not finish, so according to the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, he was given birth to a nice brāhmaṇa family. (aside:) You can call that Bengali lady. She can hear. So very rich. Śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe (BG 6.41), in that way. Rich family, at the same time, brāhmaṇa family. But richness, generally, sometimes glide down to wine, women, and intoxication. So by bad company he became woman-hunter, prostitute-hunter. So he was too much addicted to one woman, Cintāmaṇi. So his father died, and he was... He did not marry. In your country it is called girlfriend, and in our country it is called prostitute. So he was that about that prostitute, Cintāmaṇi. So he was performing the rituals, but he was thinking of his girlfriend, that Cintāmaṇi, "When I shall go there?" Bilvamaṅgala Ṭhākura? Yes. So he asked his servants, "Give me some food. I shall go to Cintāmaṇi." So anyway, he performed... Did not perform. His mind was there. He took some nice foodstuff, and when he went, there was a big river, and it was raining heavily, and the river was flooded. So he thought, "How shall I go the other side?" So one dead body was floating. So he thought, "It is a log," and he took the help of the log and went the other side. And it was heavy raining. And then, when he reached that Cintāmaṇi's home, he saw the door is locked already.

Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So many ladies, like that. That scene, I shall direct how to do it. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's father was not very rich man. So there was a big zamindar. He was devotee of Lord Kṛṣṇa. So he had some affection for Caitanya. So when the marriage ceremony was being settled up, he said, "Oh, His marriage shall not be just like the brāhmaṇas' marriage." Brāhmaṇa's wife, they are poor; so there is no expenditure. Some way or other, his marriage is done. But especially kṣatriyas and the vaiśyas, oh, they spend lakhs of rupees in marriage. So he said that "His marriage will not take place just like the brāhmaṇas. His marriage will be royal marriage." So he spent all the money, and there was grand, everything grandeur.

Lord Caitanya Play Told to Tamala Krsna -- August 4, 1969, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So they presented the fact to Caitanya Mahāprabhu that "He is Your devotee. He has served so much. Now he is in danger. If You kindly send some note to the king, he is also great admirer, then he may save his life." Caitanya Mahāprabhu refused, "Oh, he has misappropriated state's money, and you want Me to approach a pound-shilling man, king." He was not seeing even the king. "Oh, this is not possible for him. Let him be punished. He has taken money from the state. I don't wish to interfere." Then nobody could request him anything. So some way or other, the news approached the king, and the king was astonished, "Oh, why this arrangement was made for killing him? I never ordered. Stop him." Then he sent his special messenger, that, "Stop this and call him. What is the matter?" Then he said everything, that, "Your son, I could not pay his money. He wanted money, and he made this arrangement." So, "Why did you take money in this way? Do you think your salary is not sufficient to provide you? All right. Don't do this. All right, I excuse. And I increase your salary double. Don't do this again." So was he saved in his life, his salary was increased. And he was going to be killed. Although Caitanya Mahāprabhu never desired, but these things happened. So?

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1971, Gorakhpur:

Devotee: ...then why is any one activity of Kṛṣṇa consciousness better than another one? Why is any one way of serving Kṛṣṇa better than another? For example, with chanting of the sixteen rounds. Suppose that you've gone 23 hours of the day serving Kṛṣṇa in one way or another, and the last hour there is opportunity to finish your rounds and also opportunity to make a life member. So instead of chanting your sixteen rounds...

Prabhupāda: But you cannot create your concoction! You have to abide by the orders of Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee: Then why...

Prabhupāda: There is no question of why. It is the order of Kṛṣṇa's representative. You have to abide by that. You cannot say, "Why?" Then you are not fully surrendered, as soon as you say, "Why?" Surrender means there is no "Why?" It is ordered; it has to be done. That's all. As soon as there is "Why?", there is no surrender. The basic principle is misguided. We have to follow. Just like we have got tilaka. If you say, "Why this tilaka?" There is no question of "Why?" Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthā. We have been instructed by the ācāryas; we have to follow that. That is surrender. You cannot say, "Why?" Is that clear? As soon as there is "Why?", there is no surrender.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Prabhupāda: Many millions of Vaiṣṇavas and... Just like this gentleman. He is a commander of the Air, India Air Lines. So he's not my disciple, but he's a Vaiṣṇava, Kṛṣṇa conscious. Similarly, in India millions and trillions there are, Kṛṣṇa conscious persons. And practically there is not a single... Even there are Mohammedan Kṛṣṇa conscious. In Allahabad University there is a Mohammedan professor. He's a great devotee of Lord Kṛṣṇa. So this is natural. It is said in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is everywhere, in everyone's heart. It has to be awakened only by this process. That's all. It is there in your heart also. It is not that it is foreign to you. It is not that. Everyone's heart, there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. By this process we have to awaken that. Śravaṇādi śuddha citte karaye udaya. Udaya. You know this word udaya. Just like sun rises. It is not that sun all of a sudden comes from somewhere. It is there, but it rises in the morning. Similarly, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is everywhere, but some way or other, it is now covered. By this process it is awakened and aroused, by association.

Room Conversation -- August 15, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: They also do not want fight but they are forced. They do not want to fight. Because they're... Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. In the Kali-yuga everyone is śūdra. What he'll fight? Fighting is not the business of a śūdra. It is meant for the kṣatriya. And nobody is being trained as kṣatriya or brāhmaṇa. Everyone is being trained as śūdra or utmost vaiśya, how to make money. That's all. One class of men is being trained how to serve and get some money, another class is being trained how to make money by exploitation. That is capitalist and communist. The communists are the śūdras. They are protesting that "You are exploiting us and getting money. It must stop." That is Communism. Is it not? And the vaiśyas, they are trying to exploit others. Some way or other bring money. So there are these capitalists and śūdra and vaiśya. There is no kṣatriya, there is no brāhmaṇa. Therefore the whole social structure is lost. So we are trying to create some brāhmaṇas. And people if follow our instruction then whole social structure is again revived. Hare Kṛṣṇa. So we have got very serious mission. Don't be fickle. When you have come and sacrificed your life for the mission, don't be fickle. Be very steady and capture Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet tightly. You'll never be attacked by māyā. Otherwise as soon as you give up Kṛṣṇa, māyā is ready. Just like side by side there is sun... shadow and light. If you push little from light then go to shadow. This is already side by side māyā and Kṛṣṇa. So as soon as you forget Kṛṣṇa-māyā. As soon as you give up māyā, then Kṛṣṇa. (pause) So Pradyumna is transcribing everyday?

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: No, no, conscious... Suppose you think it is right but it is wrong. That is also cheating. Without knowing the thing perfectly well, if you deliver your knowledge to somebody that's cheating.

Dr. Weir: Well, I think that's being a bit hard when a person is not... If he's tried his best to do something and he doesn't intend to mislead, to call that cheating is a bit hard.

Prabhupāda: No, even if not intend, but if you misguide some way or other without sufficient knowledge, that is also cheating.

Dr. Weir: Well, we would say, using the English language properly, that's a misuse of the word.

Prabhupāda: But, generally, if I'm not in perfect knowledge, if I guide you, that is, according to Vedic version that is cheating. You must be confident of the knowledge perfectly. Then if you deliver the knowledge that is right. Just like our position is that we say what Kṛṣṇa says. Kṛṣṇa is God. So we say what Kṛṣṇa says. We don't say anything which does not Kṛṣṇa... Kṛṣṇa does not say. Therefore you are confident that we are delivering the right message. We don't manufacture our own philosophy or words. We simply say, "Kṛṣṇa says, 'sarva dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66).' " Kṛṣṇa, God, says that you simply surrender unto Me, I take charge of you. We are preaching the same philosophy. That you surrender to God and you'll become happy because God takes charge of you. We don't manufacture our word. That is not cheating.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: This is knowledge. Just like a child sometimes takes something important. He'll not spare it. So we have to flatter, "Oh, you are so nice, please take these lozenges and give me that paper. Hundred rupees, it is nothing. It is paper." (laughter) And he will, "Oh, yes, take. That's nice. That two-paise lozenges is very nice. It is sweet." So we have to do like that. Why? Because he'll go to hell taking Kṛṣṇa's money. So some way or other, take some money from him and engage in Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

Bob: And then he may not go to hell.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You save him from going to hell. Because a farthing spent for Kṛṣṇa it will be accounted, "Oh, this man has given a farthing." This is called ajñāta-sukṛti. Ajñāta-sukṛti means doing pious activities without knowledge. So we give everyone chance to act very piously without his knowledge. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Mahad-vicalanaṁ nṟṇāṁ gṛhīṇāṁ dīna-cetasām. Dīna-cetasām. They're very poor in their thought. Therefore the saintly persons work(?) just to enlighten him little, to give him chance to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is saintly person's study.

Room Conversation -- April 1, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: Because in the Bhagavad-gītā we hear, mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanam that God is in everyone's heart as Supersoul. Now, I am thinking of getting something. So God knows immediately that "He wants to have this," so He gives me the necessary thing which appears to me as chance, without knowing God. The things are supplied by God because He is giving me all facilities to enjoy this material world to my heart's content by supplying all the ingredients. That is the material condition. So these foolish persons are taking as chance, but it is not chance. God is omnipotent. As soon as He understands that I want this, He gives me some facility so that I get it. So it is not chance. It is by arrangement of superior authority. But because they are atheists, they have no sense of God consciousness, they are taking as chance, that necessity creates that chance; automatically it is coming. Not automatically. Chance does not mean automatically. I cannot see something, but all of a sudden falls... Just like I am hungry, I want some food. So Kṛṣṇa knows it that you want some... Some way or other, the food comes to me. So it is the arrangement of Kṛṣṇa, but I see it is chance: "I was hungry and by chance the food has come." That is my less intelligence. It is not chance; it is plain. Otherwise you cannot adjust the meaning of chance in that way, that as soon as there is necessity, immediately the opportune chance comes before us.

Room Conversation -- April 18, 1972, Hong Kong:

Prabhupāda: We have to maintain our establishment, the temple, the Deity, so many devotees. In each center we have got at least twenty-five devotees. At the most two hundred devotees. So their living costs, everything, by some way or other, Kṛṣṇa is giving us. But we have no fixed income; neither we have any bank balance.

Guest (1): In the minds of some people the sudden attraction of Western youth to Eastern religions...

Prabhupāda: No. It is not Eastern. That is a wrong conception. God is for everybody. Eastern people, when I speak of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they say, "What is this Kṛṣṇa? We know Kṛṣṇa. What we have to learn from Swamiji?" "Familiarity breeds contempt." But in the Western countries when we speak of Kṛṣṇa, they see the philosophy. They see the science and become attracted. We, in the very beginning, we neglect: "Oh, what is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness?" Otherwise there is no question of Western or Eastern. Kṛṣṇa is for everyone. Kṛṣṇa is neither Western, neither Eastern. But Eastern, our, especially Indians, they have learned to reject. That is their education: immediately reject it. This is their new culture, to reject everything. At least Jawaharlal Nehru began like that, "Anything Indian is bad. Everything London-made is good." That was his philosophy. And if one European would go to see him, immediately admission. And if an Indian goes to see him, three days he has to wait.

Room Conversation and Interview with Ian Polsen -- July 31, 1972, London:

Indian: That is inevitable.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Indian: It is inevitable. Someway or other he has to be...

Prabhupāda: But inevitable means... Inevitable, that's all right, but as we are speaking of duty. So Gandhi was working his duty but other man killed him. He thought that "You are not doing your duty."

Devotee: Hm. So who is the judge of what is your duty? What I may think is my duty, someone else may think it's his duty, it's not my duty.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is going on. So what is the duty?

Dhanañjaya: The duty is to serve Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the real duty. But people do not know that. They are manufacturing their duty. A big man like Gandhi, he also manufactured his duty, but he does not know what is his duty. He never preached Kṛṣṇa consciousness; therefore he does not know what is his duty.

Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:

Prabhupāda: So rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā niyamena tiṣṭhan nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu, kṛṣṇaḥ svayam (Bs. 5.39). Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. Ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). These are the Vedic statements. And Kṛṣṇa also said, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). mayā tatam idaṁ sarvaṁ jagad avyakta-mūrtinā, mat-sthāni sarva-bhūtāni na cāhaṁ teṣv avasthitaḥ (BG 9.4). Everything is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore to become wise after many, many births of struggling or cultivating knowledge, when one comes to perfection of knowledge he surrenders to Kṛṣṇa. So therefore one who surrenders to Kṛṣṇa, he is the most perfect man, even without knowing Kṛṣṇa. Just like gopīs. They did not know Kṛṣṇa, whether He is God or some... Simply loved Kṛṣṇa: "Kṛṣṇa is very beautiful." That's all. So their perfection is the highest. They did not try to understand what Kṛṣṇa, what is Vedānta, what is Bhagavad-gītā. At that time Bhagavad-gītā was not spoken even. Kṛṣṇa was at that time a boy. But they loved Kṛṣṇa with their heart and soul. Kṛṣṇa was their everything. And therefore their position is the topmost. So somehow or other, we have to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Then our life is successful. Otherwise not. So we do it knowingly or unknowingly; the effect is the same. Fire you touch knowingly or unknowingly; it will act. It is not that if a child touches fire without knowing, knowledge, it is not that fire will not burn. And similarly... That is stated in the Bhāgavata. Kāmāt krodhād bhayāt. Some way or other, come to Kṛṣṇa. Just like gopīs came to Kṛṣṇa-kāmāt. Kṛṣṇa was very beautiful, so they wanted to associate with Kṛṣṇa. Bhayāt, Kaṁsa and Śiśupāla, they were afraid of Kṛṣṇa, but still, they became Kṛṣṇa conscious, always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. Bhayāt. Krodhāt. Śiśupāla, krodhāt. He was very much envious of Kṛṣṇa. Pūtanā-rākṣasī, she wanted to kill Kṛṣṇa. So if kamāt-krodhād-bhayāt coming to Kṛṣṇa, they get perfection, what to speak of loving Kṛṣṇa? What is their position? So some way or other, you come to Kṛṣṇa. That is our mission.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Educationists -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: This is not religion. This is the only business. Religion is different thing. Suppose... Just like... I have already explained, that you are sleeping, and you have got a good engagement. And somebody's trying to awake you, that "You have to go there. Just get up! Get up!" So this kind of business is not religion. Religion is a, what is a kind of faith, a sentiment. That is different thing. It is the main business of human being. Because we are part and parcel of... Just like a boy, he's very rich man's son. Some way or other, he's out of his home, and he's suffering for want of food, want of shelter. And somebody's giving information that "I know you are such and such big man's son. Why you are loitering in the street? Why don't you go back to your home, back to your father?" So is it not the best business. So everyone is suffering. That I have already explained, how they are suffering. We are trying to save his suffering by dispatching him back to home, back to Godhead. This is our business. So it is not religion. It is the most important humanitarian work. What do you think?

Haṁsadūta: Yes.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

David Lawrence: No.

Prabhupāda: If it, had it been an artificial, they would not have been so serious, but it is a dormant consciousness. I have simply awakened. I have awakened. Otherwise... That is the statement in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, that everyone is Kṛṣṇa conscious. Some way or other, it is now snuffed out. They have forgotten. But if an opportunity is given, then it can be awakened. So this movement is giving opportunity to arouse that dormant Kṛṣṇa consciousness which is already there in everyone. So if you take that process and allow this Kṛṣṇa consciousness among the students, oh, it will be great service to the humanity. As a teacher, you will give the greatest service.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: ...or you call spirit soul or ātmā. That you can distinguish. As soon as the vital force is off from this body, this body is a lump of matter. Therefore even if you do not know the spirit soul, any sane man can guess that something is missing in this body. Therefore this body is called dead. Now, that something is described definitely, is soul. So we can distinguish between the spirit and soul, some way or other. So as there is material world, there must be some spiritual world. Otherwise how the spirit is there? The spirit is there, the soul is there. That is spiritual. So two things we are experiencing: spirit and matter. So as we are experiencing this material world, so similarly there must be a spiritual world. There must be a spiritual world. Otherwise wherefrom the spirit comes?

David Lawrence: Yes, yes.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Now, this spirit is eternal. That is the first understanding. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). This spirit is occupying a material body at the present moment. And the next, when this... Just like I am in this apartment. If I find some inconvenience, I go to another apartment. Or the lease is expired, I have to leave it. Some way or other, I change. Similarly, the... You can change your coat. So these are explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya (BG 2.22). Ex..., very nicely exemplified. So we are changing this apartment or dress and accepting another. This is going on. This is the material world. But I, the spirit soul, eternal. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ purāṇo na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Find out this verse. Na jāyate mriyate vā kadācit. Na jāyate mriyate vā kadācit. Second Chapter. Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. If you can introduce, study some Bhagavad-gītā among the students, oh, it will, it will be a great service.

David Lawrence: I think it would be a great deal more popular than studies of the Bible.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: And yajñād bhavati parjanyaḥ (BG 3.14). And when we regularly perform yajña, then there is regular cloud in the sky. And when there is cloud in the sky, there is regular rainfall, and when there is regular rainfall, there is sufficient production of food grains, fruits and other vegetables so that both the animal and the human beings, they eat sufficiently, they grow strength, they become happy and again perform yajña. And the animals supply, the cow supplies milk. In this way, the whole society becomes happy. These are the prescriptions, or directions, given by the Vedic literature. So if people take advantage of this instruction, as you have mentioned in your article "The Great Seers," so if we follow their instruction, the whole history of the human being can be changed. There is no difficulty. But whether the people will accept or not, that is the business of the leaders of the society. So far I think that British people, they organized very nicely the British Empire, but some way or other, it is now lost. But still, the British prestige can be elevated if actually, according to the Vedic instruction, you try to make your social construction, the political institution and economic development... Every direction is there. So you are all great historians. And there are many politicians. If you take this instruction of the Vedas little seriously, you can make your state an ideal state, and people are still ready to follow you. Then the whole history of the world will change. And if you people agree, then I can help you. I can help.

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Śyāmasundara: What do we mean by renunciation?

Prabhupāda: Renunciation, practically, there is no question of renunciation. According to our philosophy... Just like father and the son. So son cannot renounce father's protection or the property. Some way or other, he has to take advantage of it. But... Therefore renunciation means that as every son has got a right on the property of the father, similarly, every living entity has got right to live at the cost of God. But they should not encroach upon others' right. That is renunciation.

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: But at the present moment, they are encroaching upon others' right. And that is sinful, and he's punishable. Just like every living entity has got the right to live at the cost of God. But the human being is interfering with the rights of living of the animals. They have got the right. As human being has got the right to live...

Room Conversation with Officer Harry Edwards, the Village Policeman -- August 30, 1973, Bhaktivedanta Manor, London:

Prabhupāda: So when somebody's disturbed, he can say, "I'm calling Mr. Harry."(laughter).

Harry: You see, when I ring up the station in the morning, you see, say, "Ah, Hare Kṛṣṇa." I say: "Hare Kṛṣṇa to you." (laughter) So I mean some way or other, you're doing what you're asking to do, aren't you? Psychologically.

Śyāmasundara: Everyone's being forced to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Harry: Yeah... But I think these, you know, and I know, of course, you know, I've...

Prabhupāda: The people chant Hare Kṛṣṇa by seeing us. Yes. All over the world.

Harry: Yes. They say to me, Harry Edwards, you see, or Hare...

Śyāmasundara: Yes.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, Dr. Suneson -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: The instrument which he is using for speculation, that instrument itself is imperfect.

Professor: Well, normally our knowledge will be imperfect in some way or...

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Professor: Normally our knowledge is imperfect in one way or another.

Prabhupāda: How it is perfect?

Professor: Im...

Haṁsadūta: Imperfect.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Haṁsadūta: Imperfect.

Professor: That is...

Prabhupāda: So imperfect knowledge, one who has got imperfect knowledge, how he can give lesson perfect?

Professor: No, but you can still give something, even if you...

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's all right, you get something, but that is not perfect.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Oh. But... It may be... You might have been cheated by counterfeit money in some place. Does it mean there is no good money? What is this reasoning? "Because I have been cheated by some man, he gave me some counterfeit money, therefore I'll not touch money any more. No. Any note, that's all. We don't like." What is this? He must judge whether it is counterfeit or real. That is required. So if you can help us in some way or other, try to help us. Otherwise we shall go on with this single-handed. But I am not getting any help from any other source. Then this movement had been, would have been very, very rapidly progressing. It is progressing, but... Because we don't get any support... Lord Buddha's movement was spread because King Aśoka supported.

Paramahaṁsa: Christ.

Ambassador: Christ also? Constantine?

Paramahaṁsa: Protestantism, yes.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1973, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ harer

bhajann apakvo 'tha patet tato yadi

yatra kva vābhadram abhūd amuṣya kiṁ

ko vārtha āpto 'bhajatāṁ sva-dharmataḥ

(SB 1.5.17)

Tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ hareḥ. Just like many of our disciples, as a matter of civilized man they should have remained at home, obedient to the parents, get married and live peacefully with father and mother. Of course, European, American boys, they do not do that. But it is expected that should be like that. Just like yourself. You should have lived with your father. He also. But you did not do this. So take it for granted, out of sentiment, you took to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tyaktvā sva-dharmam. To live family life, peaceful life, obedient life to the fathers and mothers, this is called sva-dharma. So one gives up this sva-dharma, tyaktvā sva-dharmam, and takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness gone... Not many, a few. So Bhāgavata says, yatra kva vābhadram abhūd amuṣya kim: "What is the wrong there?" Even if he has fallen down, half-way, still there is no wrong. He has gained something. That much service which he has already given to Kṛṣṇa, that is recorded. That is recorded. That is to his credit: "So this living entity has given service." But other men, he's very honestly living as a good citizen, as a good family member and good brāhmaṇa, good kṣatriya... So ko vārtha āpto 'bhajatāṁ sva-dharmataḥ. He's sticking to his own principle of life, but he's not a Kṛṣṇa conscious devotee. Then what is his gain? He'll simply take the fruits of his material activities and he'll have to accept another body according to that. But here, as it is assured in Bhagavad-gītā that śucīnāṁ śrīmatāṁ gehe yoga-bhraṣṭo 'bhijāyate (BG 6.41), this man, who took by sentiment Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but could not follow it to the end; by some way or other, he has fallen but he'll be given chance to take birth as a human being, guaranteed, in rich family, or in nice devotee family, yogi family or brāhmaṇa family. So he'll be given chance. But that man will take only the reaction of his activities. Karmaṇā daiva-netreṇa (SB 3.31.1). So if he has acted like cats and dogs, he'll get the cats and dogs. But here it is guaranteed, here it is guaranteed that he's going to get another human body and very nice family.

Morning Walk -- December 17, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They have been taught like that.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: If the patient doesn't bring money, he won't give injection.

Prabhupāda: So the lawyers and everyone. Especially in your country, this country, because they require money, so they must have money some way or other. That is the prime principle. They require money. That's all.

Karandhara: They charge outrageous fees, $60 an hour, $70 an hour, $5,000 for a little operation. Some doctors, they simply try to make operations so they can get rich. Whenever you come to see them, they say, "You need an operation."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay:

Guest (2): (Hindi) Human being, they are all coming as.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Human being, that is a chance given to you to become human being, to understand God. And if you do not place yourself as human being, you must suffer. Just like (Hindi). Ācchā post. If you do not behave rightly, you are degraded. You are going to animal become.

Guest (1): No, but,...

Prabhupāda: No, no, this is the nature's law. This is the nature's law, that some way or other, by evolutionary process, you come to the human being form, but if you remain as animal, then you go to animal again.

Guest (2): So animal me āpne bolte hai (?).

Prabhupāda: He.

Guest (2): Ācchā. So if population increase...

Prabhupāda: The same example. Suppose by promotion, you come to a very nice post, but if you do not behave well, then you are degraded.

Morning Walk -- March 12, 1974, Vrndavana:

Devotee: They do not feel inspired. No one has desire.

Prabhupāda: That, that means mismanagement. You had no desire to take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but you have been taken to it by some, some way or other. That is management.

Hṛdayānanda: Jaya, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: That is management.

Hṛdayānanda: You are expert manager.

Prabhupāda: A child does not want to go to school, but it is the duty of the parent to send him to the school by some way or other. So that is government's duty, that a man should be employed according to his capacity. There should be no unemployment. That is very dangerous position of the society. Now this unemployment question is very strong all over the world. They'll plan that "This government is not good. That system is not good. He's not good." And he'll do nothing. He'll personally do nothing. Just like the hippies, they criticize everyone, but he'll not do anything. It is all... These descriptions are there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. We are going too far? Employed... (break) ...from the government to utilize this land. You see? So much. Everywhere you'll find. Everywhere you'll find. Who was with me in London?

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Just like we do not want money. But they are having money by so many ways. So we take their money and construct a temple. We can sit down here and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. We don't require that temple. But these rascals are accumulating money for wine and women. Take their money, some way or other, and builds a temple. And invite them, "Come and see." Give them prasādam. This is our policy. We are not constructing big, big buildings and temples for our convenience. For their convenience. This is sannyāsī.

Viṣṇujana: So there should always be programs in the temples for their welfare, not...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Mr. Sar: Yatatām api siddhānāṁ kaścin māṁ vetti tattvataḥ (BG 7.3).

Prabhupāda: Yes, to understand Kṛṣṇa is not so easy job. First of all, so many millions and millions of living entities are there. They are not interested. They are just like animals: "Eat, drink, be merry and enjoy." Nobody's interested what is the success of life, siddhi. They do not know. They think, "If I..." Now, especially in this age, if you can eat sumptuously then it is siddhi, all siddhi. Yes. Udāraṁ bharita, svārtham udāraṁ bharita. That just we see people are so lazy. If they can eat their daily food some way or other, begging, borrowing and stealing, just like animals...

Dr. Patel: They have got ūdara-śiṣṇu-parāyanaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Parāyanaḥ. So they think, "Now my day's business is finished. Now I have eaten." And dakṣyaṁ kuṭumba-bharaṇam. And if one man can maintain a family of four, five, men, "Oh, he's Mahārāja Dakṣa." Mahārāja Dakṣa, you know? He was a great personality. He was performing yajñas. So this is Kali-yuga. Even they will not be able to maintain a wife, a few children. There is no shelter. I have seen in, all these things in western countries. They have no fixed up. Just like animals. The animal also loitering in the street or in the jungle; they are loitering in a great jungle, a great city. That's all.

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This is the consideration. By policy if he could save his wife, that first. He was following like that...

Girirāja: " 'If in the future I get a child who can kill Kaṁsa, just as Kaṁsa is thinking, then both Devakī and the child will be saved, because the law of providence is inconceivable. But now someway or other let me save the life of Devakī.' " (break)

Prabhupāda: ...jumps. In the village also there is experience, when there is fire, it jumps over another house, leaving one house in the middle.

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. A dead body immediately goes down in the water, but a living body floats. So this is the example, that because viṣṭabhyāham idaṁ kṛtsnam ekāṁśena sthita. Because Kṛṣṇa enters this material world as Garbhodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, as Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu, therefore it floats. Just like this airplane. It is floating so long the pilot is there. If the pilot is not there, it will not float, however good machine it may be. It will not float; it will come down. These are the ex... (break) ...soul, the spiritual spark, even in minute quantity, it can float the heaviest matter. This is the conclusion. (break) ...so high and if the pilot is killed some way or other, no more floating, come down.

Morning Walk -- April 29, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: No, he has sold some, but still lying in the store. He published only one thousand copies. Our Nectar of Devotion, the translation of the same book, is selling like hotcakes. Yes. In the university, Temple University, they have made a textbook. And everywhere they like it, Nectar of Devotion. I think... What is our edition at the present moment? Fourth or Fifth edition. And we don't publish less than ten thousand copies. So we have to depend on Kṛṣṇa sincerely. Serve Him, everything, what is required, that will come, some way or other. That is miracle. Why should we try to cheat others, that "I can manufacture gold"? This rascal, if he can manufacture gold, then why he is doing himself business? That is simply jugglery. Even the magicians, they can do. They create so much money. But he is a poor man. Why he remains poor? And everyone thinks of us, that we have got unlimited wealth. You know that?

Gargamuni: Yes. In Māyāpur, when I bring over the karatālas, they are very heavy, two hundred sets of karatālas. So the boatmen say, "Sona, sona." They are thinking it is gold, the karatālas.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: Why do you bring Kṛṣṇa here? This is all sense gratification. (laughter) But that is very good that even in talking this material, you remembered Kṛṣṇa. That is very good. You remember Kṛṣṇa. When childish playing, if you remember Kṛṣṇa's childhood, that is very good. That is very good. Some way or other, if you get the chance of remembering Kṛṣṇa, that is advancement.

Satsvarūpa: Even if the example is not so clear or good.

Prabhupāda: That doesn't matter. You remember Kṛṣṇa some way or other. Kṛṣṇa does not belong to this abominable material world, but it is benefit for you because you remembered Kṛṣṇa.

Yogeśvara: The manager of a large factory comes to us and says, "Well, here is my problem. My workers are striking for higher pay and no one is satisfied So what can I do?"

Prabhupāda: Yes, you take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Ahiṁsā, because at that time people were killing animals in the name of yajña. Just like in the Christian world the order is not to kill, but still, they are killing. So this misuse of scriptural injunction is always going on. A class of men there are who abuse the scriptural injunctions and go on with their own motive. So there was a period when people, under the protection of Vedas... Because Vedas, animal sacrifice is recommended for certain purpose, to test the proper chanting of Vedic mantras. The animal was not killed. The animal was put into the fire. Then again it would come out with new life. That is the proper chanting of the Vedic mantras. So for that purpose, animal sacrifice... Just like in biological laboratories, they experiment on the body of animals, frogs, guinea pigs. Similarly, a similar experiment was made, how the Vedic mantra is being properly chanted. The test was that animal should be put into the fire, and if the Vedic mantras were properly being chanted, then that animal would come with a new body. So an old cow or bull was put and he would come with fresh body. That was the purpose. Now later on, they began to eat meat by so-called animal sacrifice. In that period Lord Buddha appeared. About him it is, description is there, sadaya-hṛdaya darśita-paśu-ghātam. The Lord became compassionate on the animals, as they were being killed unnecessarily. So Buddha, Lord Buddha, his only mission was to stop the sinful activities of animal... Ahiṁsā paramo dharmaḥ. He was teaching that. But these rascals, they would show the evidence... Just like Christians says that "Lord Jesus Christ ate fish" or something like that. Because Lord Jesus Christ ate fish, therefore they should maintain slaughterhouse. This is their reasoning. The other day somebody questioned me that... I said that killing of animals is sinful activity. So somebody questioned that "Lord Jesus Christ ate fish," somewhere. So I said that He is powerful. He can eat the whole world. But you cannot imitate. You have to follow his instructions, what he says. He said, 'Thou shall not kill.' So you should follow his instruction, not the action." He is powerful. He can act some way or other, according to circumstances. That is his business. Actually, that is the Vedic statement, that just like the sun, the sun can absorb the urine. People pass urine on the street, and the sunshine absorbs the urine, evaporates, but sun is still pure.

Morning Walk -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Just like Kaṁsa associated with Kṛṣṇa always, their position is like that. That is not bhakti. Bhakti is ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167), favorable, not to reject Kṛṣṇa or kill Kṛṣṇa, and think of Kṛṣṇa, "How to kill Him? How to kill Him? How to kill Him?" That is also Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but that is not favorable. Therefore it is not bhakti. But they get the salvation because they have some way or other thought of Kṛṣṇa. Impersonal salvation. They are not allowed to enter into the pastimes of Kṛṣṇa.

Satsvarūpa: In the beginning of devotional service, the concentration is on the service more than on Kṛṣṇa the person.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: A girl is pregnant, suppose, then, during her pregnancy period, ten months, there is no sex, and unless the child becomes six months old, there is no sex. The thing is that in the modern world, sex life has become the only pleasure. They do not know anything else. Therefore everything is discredited. And another thing is they are afraid of keeping more than one wife for population. But if they produce sufficient food, where is the question of overpopulation? Another thing they have made, especially in the western world, they don't want to produce food because they know, "We shall kill one animal and eat. Why take so much trouble? Let me increase industry, and I shall push my button. Money will come. And the slaughterhouse there. We shall eat." So they are getting money. By money, they are getting women to the choice. They are getting food, meat, and they're enjoying drinking. So money has become the whole thing. "Bring money some way or other and enjoy." This is the purport of civilization. They do not care what is God, that human body is meant for God realization. They have no such ideas. "There is nothing after death. So so long I am living, let me enjoy by the tongue, by the genital and by the belly. Use the tongue for eating anything which is palatable, which I like.

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Why? He should stay with us. Let us conclude. Why you are flying away? We have started one discussion. Let it be finished. Why you are going away? (French) That means he is escaping.

Yogeśvara: He says because he works in the evenings. He's a theater critic.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Some way or other, he's escaping. (French) A man...

Yogeśvara: With pleasure, he would like to come back to finish the discussion.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (French)

Jyotirmayī: And with friendship.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Oh, yes. That's it. Don't escape. (French) When we have begun the discussion, let us finish. Don't escape. Thank you. Haribol. Jaya. Thank you. (R.M. leaves)

Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: So it doesn't matter, Kṛṣṇa or Christ. The name is there. And we are recommending according to Vedic scripture that in this age one should simply chant the holy name of God. We are chanting that,

Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare

Hare Rāma Hare Rāma Rāma Rāma Hare Hare

Rāma and Kṛṣṇa, they are the name of God. And Harā is the energy of God. So we are chanting Kṛṣṇa, or God, along with His energy. He has got two energies, spiritual energy and material energy. So at the present moment we are under the jurisdiction of material energy. So we are praying to Kṛṣṇa, "Kindly transfer me from the service of material energy to the service of spiritual energy." This is our whole philosophy. Hare Kṛṣṇa movement means, "O the energy of God and O God, Kṛṣṇa, please engage me in your service." Because our constitutional position is to give service. Some way or other, we have been put in the service of the material energy. So this service can be transferred to the spiritual energy. Then our life is successful. That is our philosophy, bhakti-mārga, bhakti-yoga. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). Here we are giving service as Hindu, as Muslim, as Christian, as Jain, as this or that. These are designation. Designation. When we become free of the designation and then serve God, that is called bhakti or devotion. Just like we have manufactured Christian religion, Hindu religion, Muslim religion, this religion, that religion. But when the religion will be without designation—I am neither Hindu nor Muslim nor Christian, but I am servitor of God—that is pure religion.

Room Conversation with Bishop Kelly -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Bishop Kelly: I beg your pardon, your grace. I didn't quite catch what you said.

Prabhupāda: I said that if one engages himself in the service of the Lord some way or other, then the revelation, the original dormant God consciousness and love of God, becomes revived. Exactly in the same way: the psychiatrists, they treat the crazy fellow by talking, talking, talking some way. So if we talk of Kṛṣṇa, then the original Kṛṣṇa consciousness is revived. That is also stated. You find out in the Bhāgavata, śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi... (SB 1.2.17). Yes, purport. So this is very important thing. Therefore we have published so many books about Kṛṣṇa—to hear. Hearing, hearing, hearing, and... Just like man is sleeping. You talk loudly, and he will be awakened. Yes. That's it.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Metaphysics Society -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: Origin of pain means as soon as you come to the material world, is the origin of pain. Just like the... It can be appreciated very nicely. Just like water. Water is sometimes painful, and sometimes pleasing. Is it not? Do you agree or not? No, I just try to... Water is the same thing, but sometimes it is painful and sometimes it is pleasing, is it not? So how the same thing becomes pleasing and painful? This is circumstantial. The same thing is pleasing and the same thing is painful under different circumstances. Similarly, fire. Fire is sometimes pleasing and sometimes painful. The fire is the same, but circumstantially, it becomes painful and pleasing. Just like in winter season the fire is pleasing. And in summer season the same fire is painful. Now, these feelings of pains and pleasure is due to this material body. Therefore the material body is the cause of pains and pleasure. So if you do not get this material body—you remain in your spiritual body—then there is no more pains and pleasure. So that means the origin of pains and pleasure is to our attachment to this material body. If we can somehow or other get out of this material body, then there is no more pains and pleasure or it is simply pleasure. Therefore in the Vedānta-sūtra it is said, ānandamāyaḥ abhyāsāt. "By nature the spirit soul is joyful." In the Bhagavad-gītā it is also said, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati: (BG 18.54) "As soon as you become spiritually self-realized, then there is no more pains and pleasure." So pleasure means absence of pain. So in your spiritual identity there is no pain, therefore it is simply pleasure. Therefore our endeavor should be how to get our again original spiritual body. Spiritual body is there already. It is covered by the material body, but some way or other, if we stop the covering of the material body, then we are simply in pleasure. Therefore our only attempt in this human body should be how to revive our spiritual body. And that process is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That... Open that verse, janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti kaunteya (BG 4.9).

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Some way or other, if you go to God, that is very good. With motive or without motive, you have come to God, that is piety. That is better than to become impious. Impious men, they do not go to God. Just like nowadays nobody goes to church. Church are selling. Simply... Temples also. So now there are in India so many township development. They are constructing very fashionable houses, but no temples. Nobody is constructing temple. At the present moment everybody has become disinterested with anything religion and God. All over the world. That is degradation. Especially I am seeing in Bombay, that Juhu scheme, very nice houses are being manufactured. You have all seen. But nobody is constructing a temple. The modern economists, they say "nonproductive endeavor"—means there is no income. Simply you have to spend money for maintaining the temple. So they are not interested in nonproductive things. So this is degradation of the human society. Either as Christian or Hindu or Mohammedan, nobody is interested. A few may be interested.

Room Conversation with Tripurari -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: No, the thing is that Kṛṣṇa's service is so sublime that even if we cheat, you are not culprit. But because we have to deal with the worldly man, we have to go according to their rules and regulation on cheating. Otherwise, a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, he never cheats. He never cheats. Whatever he does... Just like a mother says to his child, "My dear child, if you take this medicine, I will give you this lugloo." The child is diseased. He will not be able to digest lugloo, but the mother sometimes cheats him. And when he takes the medicine the lugloo is not delivered. Similarly, sometimes we have to say so many things very pleasing to him, but our business is that let him take this medicine. That is tactics. But that is not cheating. If the mother helps the child in drinking medicine and then afterwards she does not supply the lugloo, that is not cheating. Some way or other... That is the instruction of Rūpa Gosvāmī, yena tena prakāreṇa manaḥ kṛṣṇe niveṣayet: "Somehow or other, let everyone be Kṛṣṇa conscious." There is no question of vidhi-niṣedhā. Sarve vidhi-niṣedhā syur etayor eva kiṅkarāḥ. The other rules and regulation will act as servant, but the main business is to bring one to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the main business. We are not meant for cheating anyone. We have no business. But to lead one to Kṛṣṇa consciousness we may say something sometimes. So that is not cheating.

Room Conversation with Tripurari -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: No, we are dealing generally with the masses. But if we can convert one leader, then it is equal to turning many people in the mass. That is the idea. Some way or other, we are doing Kṛṣṇa's service. Either you serve the mass or the leader, it doesn't matter. Your service is recognized.

Tripurāri: Sometimes the devotees question, if they were pure, then they could get everyone to take a big book. It's simply our fault that we're not pure enough that we can't get everyone to take a big book. Or is it just that we can't engage everyone, we can't get everyone to surrender completely?

Prabhupāda: Well, that is also a devotional attitude. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "I do not love Kṛṣṇa. So that's... And if I would have loved, then I would have died without His presence. But I am living now. Therefore I have no love for Kṛṣṇa." This is another thing. One who is too much addicted to the service of Kṛṣṇa, that is very good sign. So your headquarter is now Pittsburg?

Interview -- March 5, 1975, New York:

Reporter: Swamiji, your movement has received a great deal of attention for, at least one reason, because many of your followers dress in what for the West is an odd fashion and relate to the world in what for the West is an odd fashion. Can you respond to that? Why have you asked your followers to dress in this fashion and to play drums on the streets?

Prabhupāda: This is our preaching method, some way or other to draw their attention. (laughter)

Devotees: Jaya! Haribol!

Reporter: I'm sure that you're aware that to many people in the West, in America, in New York City specifically, that your disciples seem strange because of the way they act on the streets. What about that?

Prabhupāda: Yes, they must be strange because they are spiritual. You are all material. (laughter) So, for the material persons, we are surely strange people.

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. The material life means animal life.

Ambassador: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So when the animal comes to higher consciousness, that is spiritual consciousness. We are combined at the present moment. We are actually spiritual, but some way or other, we have come in contact with matter, and we are covered by the material body, and... But we cannot become happy with this material interest. That's a fact. Just like the fish cannot be happy on the land. The example is: just like the other day we saw one crocodile. One or two... two, three?

Paramahaṁsa: Two or three.

Prabhupāda: In where?

Paramahaṁsa: Caracas.

Prabhupāda: Caracas, yes. So one of the crocodile was on the land, and two were in the water. So in the water they were very living, alive. But in the land it was like dead.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Pañcadraviḍa: Well, all Christians, they believe that there are, in one way or another, they're going to be held accountable to the word of God. Isn't that?

Prajāpati: No.

Pañcadraviḍa: Well, how they can have any...? How they can have any tenets or principles if they don't believe they're accountable to God?

Ravīndra-svarūpa: Because they believe they can use Jesus like a doormat to clean their sinful activities of themselves.

Prabhupāda: Now, one thing is that why theology should be in reference with Bible? If it is a science, then why should it refer only to the Bible?

Prajāpati: Yes. The biggest school of theology, Harvard School of Theology... The study of the Bible is there, but only on the side. Instead, they study Freud, Karl Marx, everybody else...

Acyutānanda: Well, they should study Gītā.

Prajāpati: Yes, that's our point. How to get them to realize that? That's a question.

Acyutānanda: So we'll ask them, "We have a most scientific and detailed description of the self and God and the means to join to Him. That cannot be avoided in your study. And we claim the highest standard of renunciation, and worship and godly society."

Prajāpati: And their answer...

Acyutānanda: "You can't avoid us."

Prajāpati: Their answer to such a challenge will be: "You please go across the street to the study of Hinduism."

Acyutānanda: "No, you said theology. God is not a Christian God."

Prajāpati: But they're not interested. They only want to hear the Christian point of view. And for them, "Christian" doesn't mean Bible; it means their own...

Acyutānanda: That's Prabhupāda's first thing—what is God? Is it the Christian God? What is God? What is your definition of God? Is He a Christian God or pure?

Prabhupāda: No, the... The... First of all, this should be established, whether God can be Christian God or Hindu God or Muslim God? Is God to be designated like that? God is one, so how there is one God? If Christian has got separate God, a Hindu has got separate god, Muslim has got separate God, then how God is one?

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1975, Mayapur:

Haṁsadūta: No.

Prabhupāda: Then? Even it is beyond your conception, what to speak of others. But it is growing. It is... If there is any scar or if the nail is broken some way or other, it will come out. But... You cannot manufacture it by conceiving. But it is coming out. That means within you there is an inconceivable power. So if you have got, an ordinary human being, so much inconceivable power, how much God has got inconceivable power. That is God.

Haṁsadūta: In Los Angeles, you called it mystic power, that every living creature has some mystic power.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Every living creature.

Trivikrama: You gave the example of a lemon tree.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The mystic power producing tons of citric acid.

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes, by saṅkīrtana. By hearing, hearing, hearing—this is a medicinal process—the heart will be cleansed and they will take up the knowledge. Now the heart is unclean, so he cannot take up. So this is the medicine. Kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā. Harer nāma harer... (CC Adi 17.21). Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra wherever possible, and whoever will hear, he will gradually become cleansed. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12). And then bhava-mahā-dāvāgni... Then his material pangs will be over. This is the only medicine. Therefore chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Some way or other, let them have the chance of hearing, and then it will act as medicine. Even he does not will, you chant, you let him hear by force, and he will be cured.

Satsvarūpa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, sometimes you say only a very small percentage can take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- May 11, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is law always. Rape means without consent, sex. Otherwise there is no rape. There was a rape case in Calcutta, and the lawyer was very intelligent. He some way or other made the woman admit, "Yes, I felt happiness." So he was released. "Here is consent." And that's a fact. Because after all, sex, rape or no rape, they will feel some pleasure. So the lawyer by hook and crook made the woman agree, "Yes, I felt some pleasure." "Now, there is consent." So he was released. After all, it is an itching sensation. So either by force or by willingly, if there is itching, everyone feels relieved itching it. That's a psychology. It is not that the woman do not like rape. They like sometimes. They willingly. That is the psychology. Outwardly they show some displeasure, but inwardly they do not. This is the psychology.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Guest 2: If you're not the head, you're inferior. In Indian society that's not so.

Prabhupāda: Who shall be the head?

Guest 2: All want to be heads, in one way or another.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Amogha: He says that we all want to be heads.

Prabhupāda: No. That is a very good idea, but the leg is also required. If you simply keep the head and there is no leg, then it is incomplete. Everything is required. To keep the body fit you require head, you require arms, you require belly, you require leg. That is the system of varṇāśrama-dharma. In India you have heard that there is a class, brāhmaṇa. Now it is now broken. But this is the Vedic civilization, that one class of men should be the brāhmaṇas, first class. One class of man should be kṣatriya, the administrators, politicians. One class of man should be food producer, vaiśya. And one class of man should be laborer, who has no brain but he can assist the other three.

Conversation in car -- May 23, 1975, Melbourne:

Devotee (2): You have it's just like when someone has jaundice and he sees everything as yellow and you cannot convince him if something is white.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the...

Devotee (2): He must become purified.

Prabhupāda: So therefore, the treatment is, some way or other, induce them to come and chant and dance with us and take prasādam. This program should be accelerated.

Śrutakīrti: Spiritual life starts with the tongue.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is... Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau (Brs. 1.2.234).

Devotee (3): Like, Śrīla Prabhupāda, the solicitor there last night. When I first made contact with him, he took two days to think about it whether he would act for us or not. And now, through association, he's becoming more purified, stopped eating meat, stopped smoking cigarettes, and now he likes us very much.

Prabhupāda: He is being purified himself?

Devotee (3):. Yes.

Morning Walk -- May 23, 1975, Melbourne:

Australian devotee 6: Then they eat the grandfather's brain.

Prabhupāda: And, you do not know, they like to eat white men. (laughter) Yes. They kidnap or capture, some way or other, one white man, and they eat it very nicely.

Australian devotee 6: They say that the grandfather is very learned so they eat his brain so they can get his knowledge.

Prabhupāda: Oh, they say like that? Oh, just see. He eats the experience. Harer nāma harer nāma (CC Adi 17.21).

Śrutakīrti: You were saying about how, in the car, that one eats the cow, they say, because it is sāttvika.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughs)

Śrutakīrti: So the spiritual master, he is even more sāttvika so he should be eaten.

Prabhupāda: So eat the spiritual master.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So I shall take it?

Bahulāśva: Yes, he said that he will sponsor us in this union, and then our devotees can study just your books. Maybe they must take an English course, and that would be all we couldn't offer. Then everything else, they can study from your books.

Prabhupāda: Some way or other, if they read my books, they will be benefited. There is no doubt about it.

Bahulāśva: Yes. Then they can get a degree recognized by the state of California so they can teach in universities all over the whole country.

Prabhupāda: That I want. Do it. We want to give degrees, at least B.A., M.A., and Ph.D., according to the advancement of knowledge. And that will be very much beneficial to your country. Then America will be saved from disaster and it will be the leader. The country will be leader of the whole world. Take this advantage.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, there are some questions about exactly how to do this college. We will be licensed by the state of California, that is no problem. We can get a license immediately.

Prabhupāda: Get it.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Yes.

Morning Walk -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, you have no card? Love feast card? Give them, that "come."

Jagannātha-suta: Jayatīrtha has one. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...is our enemy, it means Hare Kṛṣṇa is acting upon him. Yes.

Bahulāśva: Like Kaṁsa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (chuckles) Kāmāt bhayāt krodhāt. Either for lust desires or out of fear, out of anger, some way or other, if one is attached to Kṛṣṇa, his life will be nice. So enemy means krodhāt, being angry upon us. "These Hare Kṛṣṇa people does like that." So he is angry. But that will also be effective. Krodhāt.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Kṛṣṇa is so merciful.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- September 3, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So Upendra has not come?

Brahmānanda: No.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Brahmānanda: He said he had to take a laxative last night.

Prabhupāda: Some way or other, he avoids. Eh? (break) ...therefore forbidden to make one steady in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So if one does not follow this thing, then his mind, he cannot control. It is not possible. Unless one can control the mind and the senses, he cannot be steady. That is māyā's trick, to become guided by the mind. That is māyā's trick. (break)

Trivikrama: ...sixteen rounds.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So let him go to hell. What can be done? (break) So his friend said, "Oh, you are drinking. You will go to hell." "Oh, my father is drinking." "Oh, he will go to hell." "My mother is also drinking." "Oh, she will go." Then brother, sister... "Then where is hell? We are going all there. If we can live together, where is hell? Let us go to hell. Doesn't matter." So your argument is that. "Because everyone is being cheated, then where is fault? I have been cheated. That's all. It is not hell. It is heaven." (laughter) Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- September 15, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our mission. Somehow or other go on repeatedly saying.

Vāsughoṣa: Because even that atheist hippie, when he was... after he was talking to me about the cigarettes, then the next morning I sold him a book, so he gave twenty rupees.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the way. Some way or other, induce. (break) Obstinacy. What is that, "dog obstinacy"?

Dhṛṣṭaketu: They say, "Stubborn as an ass."

Prabhupāda: Hm. (break) ...selling different types of religious system so that one may not have to surrender to Kṛṣṇa. This is going on.

Vāsughoṣa: Many people were... On the way to... Even on the way to here...

Prabhupāda: And big, big swamis are saying, "Yes, whatever you manufacture, it is all right." Yathā mat tathā path: "Whatever ways you manufacture by concoction, that is all right." So they are satisfied. If somebody says that "You surrender unto me," that is not very palatable. If somebody says, "No, you can surrender anywhere," that is very palatable.

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: These bodies are a reaction, effect, isn't it? These bodies are an effect.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So then death also must be some effect.

Prabhupāda: So who has made this law, cause and effect? Some way or other, you have to accept that you are not independent.

Harikeśa: Their arguments are so foolish, it's hard to think of them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore mūḍha, they have been described. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ (BG 7.15). They are being kicked, punished; still, he says, "Oh, I don't care for anybody." I kick on your face. "Yes, I don't care for you." Like that. This is their argument.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā.

Cyavana: But because everything in this world appears to be disordered, it is difficult to accept...

Prabhupāda: The world is not in disorder.

Room Conversation -- October 21, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: You sit down. Actually ours is not in search of truth, but we are presenting the truth as it is. We are not searching out.

Guest: Right. Well, this is what I want to... I wanted to ask you... I'll put the questions in order. The questions in order is... The first one is, "Within Vedic culture, what is meant by bhakti-yoga?" The second one... Shall we take it in...

Prabhupāda: Yes. You just learn it first of all. Vedic culture is that we are living entities. Some way or other, we have fallen in this material world and encaged in this body or other body. So material world means the spirit soul is wandering throughout the universe under material conditions. And the Vedic knowledge is to get him out of this material condition and take him again to the spiritual world. This is Vedic knowledge.

Guest: And bhakti...

Prabhupāda: Bhakti-yoga is the direct method. There are many methods recommended. Karma, jñāna, yoga, and at last bhakti. They are different steps of the same staircase going upwards, and bhakti-yoga is the topmost level.

Morning Walk -- October 28, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: Anywhere, hell or heaven, it doesn't matter. You induce people to chant. This is the sum and substance of devotee. It doesn't matter whether it is town, city, village. Wherever you go, you gather people and induce them by flattering them, by falling their, on their leg—some way or other, induce them. Dante nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipatya. This is the process shown by Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī, that "My dear sir, I have come to you with great humbleness, taking a straw in my mouth." Dante nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipatya: "And falling down on your lotus feet." Kaku-satam kṛtva: "And I am trying to please you by so many flattering words." Kṛtva ahaṁ bravimi: "I have got some submission, if you'll kindly hear." So who is that man who will deny? If you fall down on his feet and take a straw and very humbly you pray, "Sir, I have got something to say if you kindly hear," who will deny? Who is that man? Even rogues, rascals, he'll also agree: "Yes, you can say what you want to do." This is the process. Dante nidhāya tṛṇakaṁ padayor nipatya kaku-satam kṛtva ca ahaṁ bravimi. "I want to submit. Will you kindly hear?" So any rogue, rascal, gentleman, big, small, learned—everyone will agree. Is it not, if you submit like that, that with great humbleness and flattering him, "Falling down on your feet, I want to submit something"? Huh? What do you think?

Morning Walk -- October 28, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: Their function means recreation. That is not function. By that function they'll... But it is... Something is better than nothing. That is another thing. Arto 'rthārthī jijñāsur jñānī-four kinds of men, they take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, the arto 'rthārthī. Ārtaḥ means distressed, and arthārthī means those who are in need of money. So they are arto 'rthārthī, and better than the rogues and ruffians, but their Kṛṣṇa consciousness, chanting Kṛṣṇa, means they want to get some money and to get out of some distress. That is ninety-nine percent people. And some of them are jñānī. They want to learn about Kṛṣṇa very seriously, not to fulfill their material desires. They are called jñānī. Jñānī and jijñāsu, inquisitive. So in jnani, those who are after knowledge, and inquisitive, they are better than this arta and arthārthī. But devotee is transcendental to all of them. They are neither arto, not distressed, nor in need of money. They do not want to speculate for knowledge or... They know, "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme, and if I am part and parcel of the Supreme, it is my duty to serve Him to My best capacity." That is real bhakti. And those who are trying to exploit Kṛṣṇa for their, some material fulfillment of desire, they are not on the platform of bhakta. They are pious, not bhakta. A bhakta is above piety. Bhakta's position is sarvopadhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam (CC Madhya 19.170). He is cent percent pure, without any mat... These are all material things. But beginning is all right. If you go to the fire, some way or other you will get the heat. So either be arta, arthārthī, jñānī, jijñāsu, if you somehow or other, you have come to Kṛṣṇa, it is good for you. There are many private functions like that you said?

Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi:

Indian woman: Everyone, every state, this is true. Sometimes I go to preaching. I not looking "Asian," or such and such. Anyone I go to preach.

Prabhupāda: We are all part and parcel of God. The outward dress only makes difference that "I am African," "I am Indian," "I am this." Paṇḍitaḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Therefore one who is learned, he does not make that difference. That is accidental, that by... You can say acci... That is also not accidental, but some way or other, it has become so. The dress is different. But our movement is not with the dress but with the living being who has the dress. This is movement. Our, this is completely spiritual movement.

Indian man (4): Many intelligent people in Africa, they are taking it very seriously. We have one professor, Entenjania Danisanjunibristi. He's a very young boy. So he bought your Bhagavad-gītā and Bhagavat dāsa was there. So he took all the picture out, all the picture, and he framed. I have seen in the room. He put all the pictures in his room. Then he was writing me from a long time. He became our patron life member, and now he chants sixteen rounds. He has gone to London for our course. He said, "After finishing this course I will take initiation from His Divine Grace. Then I will dedicate my whole life to preach in the university."

Prabhupāda: He is Indian or African?

Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi:

Harikeśa: So if a devotee dies and remembers Kṛṣṇa, although he is not perfect...

Prabhupāda: Unless he is perfect, he cannot remember Kṛṣṇa. That is not possible. That is not possible. That is theory only. He must be perfect. Somehow or other, he fallen, so Kṛṣṇa gives him the chance. That is special concession for devotee. Some way or other, you become devotee. Even if you cannot finish the whole job, if you fall down, still, there is guarantee that you get your birth in a very good society. That is the prerogative.

Jñāna: What about like Mahārāja Bhārata?

Prabhupāda: That was also. If Mahārāja Bhārata... It was punishment and reward also. Mahārāja Bhārata, although he became a deer, he remembered that he was such and such exalted position but "I became attached to the deer and I forgot my regular duties." Mahārāja Bhārata, he became so much attached to the deer, he forgot his regular duties. Therefore he was punished. But he remembered that "I was in such exalted position. On account of my attachment to the deer I have fallen." Therefore he rectified himself so that in his next life he became completely silent so that "I may not fall down," Jada Bhārata. This association, material association, is so dangerous, so he remained just like a dull madman. That's all. He was talking with nobody; he was not mixing with anybody. Whatever one would do, he did not protest, but his knowledge was full.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: (break) So then the chance is lost. Repeatedly Kṛṣṇa is saying, "You give up all this habit. Just become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Sarva-dharmān..." Nobody will hear. "Why shall I not?" There is a Bengali song, cakṣe yadi lāge bhālo keno dekhbo nā: "If it is gratifying to my eyes, why shall I not see a beautiful woman? Why you are forbidding me?" Cakṣe yadi lāge bhālo: "It is pleasing to my eyes. Why you are forbidding me? This is going on. Cakṣe yadi lāge bhālo. If there is little happiness, don't mind it is flickering. It will go on. The Carvaka Muni: ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet: "Some way or other prepare foodstuff with ghee." "I have no money." Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā: "Just take. Beg, borrow, steal, bring ghee and prepare nice foodstuff and eat and enjoy life." This is the material world. But śāstra says, "No, no, no. Don't do this. This is the hog's business. Tapo. Just try to go, follow austerity." Even those who are so-called advanced in knowledge, karmī, jñānī, yogī, they are also after sense gratification. Karmī is openly after sense gratification and jñānī is subtly. "No, no. This kind of..." Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. "Now I shall enjoy Brahman. I shall become God."

Morning Walk -- February 18, 1976, Mayapura:

Acyutānanda: We went to his program and sold books to the crowd.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Yaśodānandana: But some way or other, he has some respect for you, Prabhupāda, for the great work you have done, Cinmayananda Swami. He has some respect for you. He knows...

Prabhupāda: But he, he wants to keep his prestigious position.

Acyutānanda: Oh, yes.

Yaśodānandana: Yes. On your order, we shall try to hamper that.

Prabhupāda: No, tactfully.

Acyutānanda: By preaching your books.

Prabhupāda: Keep him as friend. He's friendly. So don't irritate him.

Acyutānanda: All right.

Morning Walk -- February 27, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Just see. What he is? He's standing naked and taking photograph. His wife and he, standing naked. I have seen. And that picture is there in his sitting room, fireplace. That is the picture. (laughs) I went to see him. I was his guest. So one day I was... I saw there that big picture on the fireplace. And here is a public... Newspapermen go to him to take his opinion. "What is your opinion?" Just see. What is his value? Nobody... He is public leader because he has got some money. Money is the criterion. Therefore people are accumulating money some way or other. He knows that "If I got money, then I'll have all influence over the society."

Hari-śauri: A rich man no matter what his morals or character...

Prabhupāda: No, nobody cares.

Hari-śauri: ...he becomes very attractive.

Prabhupāda: Anyone who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, he has no good quality. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). These are the... From the Vedic angle of vision, the Western people are the most uncivilized. Only money is covering them. When they introduced that mini-skirt for the girl, how much abominable it was considered in India. But they very publicly introduced.

Room Conversation -- April 30, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: All right, that is also kṛṣṇa-prasādam. Prasādam means we offer the foodstuff to Kṛṣṇa; then it is prasādam. So you have not come, but you have to come to take prasādam. This, it has got connection with Kṛṣṇa. So therefore we welcome you that at least for eating, you are coming to Kṛṣṇa. Gradually, you'll understand Kṛṣṇa, by eating only. Kṛṣṇa is not so easy to be understood, but we are giving you facility to eat kṛṣṇa-prasādam so that one day you can understand this movement. This is the policy. Actually, that is the policy. We are not poor-feeding. That is not our philosophy. Like Vivekananda. Daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā. No, we are not after that. We are giving you prasādam. And that is fact, that by eating, eating, eating, eating, you one day will become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Simply by eating. Because you are so dull, you cannot understand the philosophy. You know the belly like the animals. So therefore we are giving facility, "All right, fill up your belly, fill up your belly. And you'll be infected." As you take foodstuff from a infected area, you become infected with some disease, so this is Kṛṣṇa infected, prasādam. You take it, and one day you'll be diseased with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And that is a fact. Some way or other, let him come in contact with Kṛṣṇa. He'll be benefited. Some way or other, let him come to the light. May be dim light or very big light. Light is light. So if anyone understands that there is a soul which is conducting the business of this body, then he can very easily understand that there is a Supersoul who is conducting the business of the whole material manifested world. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10).

Room Conversation -- May 2, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: That is the difficulty. Everyone sees that "Some way or other, I become guru. Then so many persons will offer me respect. Somehow or other, create some situation. Then I become guru." This is going on. Not bona fide guru. Bona fide guru is indicated by Caitanya, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā: "Become guru." Why ambition? Actually become guru. But how to become guru? Yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa-upadeśa' (CC Madhya 7.128). That's it, otherwise goru. So they will not take this simple method. They will drink, they will hunt after woman and have some attractive singing or dancing and become guru. What is meaning of guru, they do not know. Somehow or other become popular and become guru. This is going on. So with māyā you can attract these foolish rascals very easily. If you can manufacture.... You cannot, but if you can show some jugglery, then you become guru. People are after all these things, material things. They are not after Kṛṣṇa. They are after money and women. So if you give some mantra, then gold will be manufactured, and all women will be attracted, very first class.

Room Conversation -- May 2, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: No. He chanted for some time and, of course, there was chanting of "Nitāi-Gaura." He introduced new system of chanting: nitāi-gaura rādhe-śyāma. So the Nitāi-Gaura chanting will have some effect, Kali-yuga. Although he was presenting pervertedly, the beginning was Nitāi-Gaura, so it would have some effect. He did not know actually Nitāi-Gaura. From his words it appears. He used to preach that Nitāi is Rādhārāṇī, and Gaura is Kṛṣṇa. That is siddhānta-viruddha. But some way or other, he was chanting Nitāi-Gaura. So some effect were there. Just like sandalwood. You do not know which way better pulp comes out, but if you rub any way, some pulp will come because it is sandalwood. So he had some effect of chanting Nitāi-Gaura, but later on they deteriorated because they did not know actually, neither they were taught. Siddhānta-viruddha. The siddhānta-viruddha means it will deteriorate. It will not endure.

Room Conversation -- May 2, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: Many? What you...? Many followers.... The philosophy you present, it must be followed by everyone. That is wanted. You have got, say, ten thousand followers. That does not mean success. Everyone has got some followers. This.... What is that? Guruji Maharaja. He has got also so-called followers. The T.M., he has got also some followers. Everyone has got some followers. But what kind of followers they have? That is quality. Everything has quality. Simply quantity is not. There are many Christians. Even up to date, some Christian fair or.... Many millions will come. What is the quality? Quality is all meat-eater. But Christian means he should not kill. Where is the Christian? So we have to test by the quality, followers. Not many followers, the quality of the followers. My Guru Mahārāja used to say like that, that "If I get at least one quality disciple, then all my labor will be success." He was saying like that: quality, not the quantity. By quantity if one is amazed, then he is also goru. By quality—what kind of followers? That is the.... From the very beginning my strictures are there, that "You have to follow this"—quality. If I were..., "No, you can do like Vivekananda. Yes, what you can, whatever you like," then I think quantity would have been very, very big. But I don't say. I make him promise before the fire, before the Deity, before guru. (break) That one moon is taken into account. Who takes account of the millions of stars? Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca tārā sahasraśaḥ. Quality. So we should be quality devotee, not quantity devotee. I have taken two glasses. Just see how nice water is, tap water. Here so many dobs are available, and this rascal is manufacturing RC and he is going as to be..., business. And for hearing Bhagavad-gītā they have no time, and they are trying to go to Vṛndāvana. Quantity, not quality. So civilization should be quality civilization, not quantity civilization. Do that. Bheḍyadāsana. Bheḍyadāsana (indistinct). Bheḍī, lamb, they are going, hundreds and thousands. They flock. So, and if one bheḍī, lamb, is somehow or other pushed into slaughterhouse stockroom, so all the.... All of them. You haven't got to take many. Some way or other, you induce one of them to go into the, what is called, shed, where stocks are kept for taking out daily and killing. So they do not mind that "We are being pushed into this room for future killing. Never mind. One has gone. Go." They'll go. So this is called in Hindi, bheḍyadāsana, that without any consideration, "One has entered. Let us all enter." That is bheḍī, means animal, their disciple like this. They liked the ceremony?

Morning Walk -- May 3, 1976, Fiji:

Prabhupāda: It is not misleading. It is truth, but the truth as much as you can understand. It is not misleading because Lord Buddha knew that "This rascal will not understand more than this." So he did not say further knowledge.

Guru-kṛpā: Śrīla Prabhupāda, so some of our men, when we sell our books, sometimes we have to say things in order to get them to take the book. So that's actually not misleading.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, that is not misleading. Let him take, some way or other. (break) Why do you think was done by Lord Buddha? Because the atheist class, they did not believe in God: "There is no God." So Buddha said, "Yes, there is no God. You are right. But what I say, you accept." "Yes, sir." But he's God. Keśava dhṛta-buddha-śarīra jaya jagadīśa hare. We know that Lord Buddha is Kṛṣṇa. But he says, "No, no, there is.... No, there is no God. Yes, you are right. But what I say, you accept." "Yes, sir, we shall do that."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Buddha's name is also considered hari-nāma?

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Buddha's name is also considered hari-nāma?

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: The ultimate intelligence. That's all.

Rāmeśvara: So now these governments are very rascal. They are cheating the people deliberately.

Prabhupāda: Well, government means combination of cheaters like you. What do you expect more than that? If you are cheaters, then you go to the government. Someway or other get vote. Bribe or something nefarious you do and get vote, and they become cheap government man. And then do your business. Because you are cheater, you have come to the post of prestige and power. What you will do? You know simply only cheat.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So he'll cheat more.

Prabhupāda: That's all. You have now got the power. You cheat more.

Rāmeśvara: The people in America that claim that the American government is controlled by Communists. They say that these big, big bankers, the very rich, rich people, that they are actually..., their theory is Communist government, or, not Communist, dictatorship, and that they are secretly manipulating.

Prabhupāda: What is their aim?

Rāmeśvara: Power.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Hari-śauri: In that newspaper article in the Butler Eagle, that very first article when you just arrived that we saw? They showed that copy in Los Angeles. It mentioned, the reporter there, he quoted you as saying that—you were telling him about milk, how good it was—and he quoted you as saying that milk is the miracle food for babies and old men.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact. No, it may be there are so many other foods, but cent percent of the human society, everyone, has some way or other taken milk. So morally, cow is our mother. How these mothers are being killed? That is the question. Where is morality? Where is...? And they are drawing last drop of the milk. And there is necessity of milk. "After taking whatever money you have got..., take, I shall kill you." What is this? Horrible society. If I take from you whatever you have got in your pocket and then I kill you.... What is this society?

Jagadīśa: The only thing that stops them from killing each other is that there are certain laws. Otherwise, I'm sure that the human beings are so barbaric that they would kill each other.

Hari-śauri: Actually, they are making adjustments to the law so that they can do that.

Prabhupāda: Yes, in India, in Vṛndāvana, they are killing now for a little money. They are so poverty-stricken. They have got a clique. Because in Vṛndāvana there are many retired men; they get some money from bank or some saving bank in post office, and they have got clique with this post office man and the bank clerk who has taken money. Bon Mahārāja was attacked. He brought some one lakh rupees, one and a half lakh rupees for some.... He was recognized by the.... As soon, at night.... He was living in the Institute. Attacked, in the presence of police. Police was guarding that others may not come to help.

Room Conversation -- June 17, 1976, Toronto:

Hari-śauri: Every time they put a tax increase, it's always on beer and cigarettes. Always, every time. And motorcars. Because they know the people are so much addicted that even if they squeeze and squeeze and squeeze, they will still get more, and the people will still pay.

Prabhupāda: And addicted people, they, they're after the.... Get money some way or other. Beg, borrow or steal. So these black men especially, they are expert. They are not expert in begging, but borrowing and stealing.

Jagadīśa: Is it possible, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will, in the future, turn the tide and gain predominating influence? Change...

Prabhupāda: Thing is that if the leaders of the society, they come to their consciousness, that this way the society cannot be peaceful, the way they are now conducting.... If they have brain.... Just like the other day, the Christian priest. He was speaking of disabled men. You were present? I challenge you: what do you mean by disabled man? If one man has lost his arm, can you supply it? Then he stopped.

Morning Walk -- June 18, 1976, Toronto:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Even he may be in the bodily concept?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That will be rectified. Kṣipraṁ bhavati dharmātmā. Huh? What is that? Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31). Api cet sudurācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk (BG 9.30). When one has come to the fire, some way or other, he'll be warm, gradually. That is the.... He has come to the right path. (break) ...kāmād bhayāt, krodhāt. Either.... Anyone who comes to Kṛṣṇa.... Just like gopīs, they were captivated. They were village girls. They did not know what is God, what is Brahman, nothing. But they were captivated: "Kṛṣṇa is very beautiful boy." That's all. Even they forgot their own husbands. (break) ...or other, we have to develop our intense love of Kṛṣṇa. Then life is perfect. (break) (in car) One who is accepting this body as self, sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). They are making paper?

Devotee: Tar.

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: So vittam, money. Money is the criterion, not family. Formerly, there was family, respectable family, aristocratic family, brāhmaṇa family, kṣatriya family. All these things are gone now. If you accumulate some money some way or other, then you are respectable, never mind what you are. That is Kali-yuga symptom, that position in society, if you want to be respectable man, you somehow or other gather money. Never mind how we have gathered, what is the method. It doesn't matter. Get some money and you become respectable. Vittam eva hi.

Pradyumna: Vittam eva kalau nṛṇāṁ janmācāra-guṇodayaḥ.

Prabhupāda: Ah, janmācāra. First of all, janma, the family, heredity, was taken into consideration, but that is now forgotten. Get money. Just like in England the British empire's policy was that you bring money from outside and deposit in the government treasury and you become lord. Is it not? Bring money, some way or other. So that was going on, exploiting, they used to go to the foreign countries and somehow or other accumulate money. Just like Lord Clive. He was a street boy, but he made some policy. In this way, diplomacy, he entered into Bengal and got some money, and Lord Clive, he became Lord Clive. So money is the criterion. Some way or other, bring money. That's all. That's a fact. These are the symptoms. Just try to understand.

Garden Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Dhana means money. So if you have got money, then everyone will respect you. Personally you may be less than a dog, but because you have got money, people will respect you. Is it not? (laughs) In England I was guest in John Lennon's house. He has taken a photograph, naked. And he's a big man. He gives opinion to the newspaper reporter. People go there to take his opinion about some serious subject, and he speaks, and the man is so shameless that he is standing naked, and he's important man—because he has got money. Especially in the Western countries this is very prominent. If you have got money, then you have got everything. Therefore they are after money only, that "If some way or other, if I get money, then I get everything. I get respect, I get honor. I get everything. Bring money somehow or other." This is the attempt. Therefore there is so much hard struggle. From early in the morning, four o'clock, they are going to the office to get money. To get more money, more money, that is the Western civilization. Now in India they have also learned. And our philosophy is "Don't try to get money."

Room Conversation -- July 4, 1976, Washington D.C.:

Prabhupāda: This is the mother.

Hari-śauri: Completely callous.

Rūpānuga: Not even mother love anymore.

Prabhupāda: Mother killing. He was about to be killed. He admits. His grandmother advised the mother. Yes. Kṛṣṇa saved him. Because he is devotee, some way or other, he was saved. Your grandmother still living?

Hari-śauri: Just.

Prabhupāda: Why don't you say, (laughs) "You wanted to kill me, just see, I'm chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa."

Hari-śauri: I don't think it would be received very well.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: She might say, "See, I was right."

Prabhupāda: Mother advising young daughter to kill her child.

Evening Darsana -- July 8, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Raso 'ham apsu kaunteya prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ (BG 7.8). When you drink water, you drink water for some taste, nice taste to quench your thirst. So that taste is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says raso 'ham apsu kaunteya. Apsu does not mean only water. Suppose you are drinking, so you are getting some pleasure by the taste of the drinking, and if you think that this taste is Kṛṣṇa, then gradually you'll give up this drinking. Because you'll be purified by thinking of Kṛṣṇa. So some way or other think of Kṛṣṇa and your life is successful. Yena tena prakāreṇa manaḥ kṛṣṇe niveśayet. So the process is given, you can think of Kṛṣṇa twenty-four hours if you practice. Who can avoid drinking water? At least twice, thrice, we drink water, and if we think the taste is Kṛṣṇa... Prabhāsmi śaśi-sūryayoḥ. Who can avoid seeing the sunshine and moonshine? As soon as you see the sunshine and the moonshine, if we think "Here is Kṛṣṇa," the sunshine is Kṛṣṇa. So this thinking of Kṛṣṇa, yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntarātmanā (BG 6.47). He is first-class yogi who is always thinking of Kṛṣṇa in every step of life. That is first-class yogi.

Morning Walk -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: He was so much insulted. Because every European countries were harassed, they had very bad idea about this Napoleon. Unnecessarily expanding the interest of France. "France and Napoleon, one." Now where is that rascal? France is there. This is going on. British Empire means bring money, hook or crook, in London, and you get the title, "lord," "baron," this... This was their policy. "Sir." All hooligans, thieves, rogues, they were made big, big respectable people. A deposit in the government, this lord family means they have to deposit, say, ten million pounds, like that, and the government takes that money as fixed deposit, and the interest the family will maintain the aristocracy. This is the lord's family. Some way or other you deposit ten million pounds and your family becomes lord's family. So people become mad after money, somehow or other bring money. There was no other culture. In order to introduce their Manchester cloth, how they killed the home industry of India, cloth merchant, this weaver... Just like we are trying. It is very long time, this, the handloom. They cut the finger.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Jyotirmāyī: She can keep him and teach him all the time? Until he's older and so on?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Yes. That is the duty of the father and mother. Along with that, he can teach others also. These things are to be organized. But some way or other, our students should be given education and spiritual life, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Individually, collectively, somehow or other. The principle is laid down there, brahmacārī gurukule vasan dānto guror-hitam. That's the beginning. Everything is there, we have to simply follow it. We haven't got to manufacture anything. That is a waste of time. Whatever is there, you follow. Is that all right?

Devotees: All glories to Śrīla Prabhupāda. (break)

Devotee (1): ...silk.

Prabhupāda: Thailand silk.

Room Conversation -- August 3, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Hari-śauri: Lockers.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is not possible for us. We welcome. But we must be well organized to utilize these poor souls for becoming first-class devotees. That should be done. Otherwise, sex life and the by-product, that is always troublesome, either you take this way or that way, it is troublesome. If it is not troublesome, why they are killing their own children? To avoid trouble. This is psychology. They want to avoid trouble. But our process is, if you want to avoid trouble, then don't marry, remain brahmacārī. If you cannot, then, all right, have legal wife, get children and raise them very nicely, make them Vaiṣṇavas, take the responsibility. So we are organizing this society, we welcome. Some way or other we shall arrange for shelter. But to take care of the children, to educate them, that will depend on their parents. Now our Pradyumna was complaining that in the Gurukula, his child was not educated to count one, two, three, four. So I have told him that "You educate your child. Let the mother educate in English, and you educate him in Sanskrit." Who can take care? So similarly every father, mother should take care that in future they may not be a batch of unwanted children. We can welcome hundreds and thousands of children. There is no question of economic problem. We know that. But the father, mother must take care at least. Properly trained up, they should be always engaged. That is brahmacārī gurukula. Brahmacārī guru-kule vasan dānto guror hitam (SB 7.12.1). From the very beginning they should be trained up.

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Personally I feel, I have several times told. For a devotee to live with nondevotees is so obnoxious and troublesome, it is sometimes mentioned, better to remain within a cage surrounded by fire, and still, don't remain with nondevotees. You prefer to live within a cage surrounded by fire. That living is preferable than to live with this nondevotee class.

Hari-śauri: A lot of the devotees had that experience living with their parents before they joined the movement. It was so hellish they had to get out. Then they, some way or other, met...

Prabhupāda:

tāṅdera caraṇa-sebi-bhakta-sane bās

janame janame hoy ei abhilāṣ

Bhakta-sane bās, that is the essential part of progressing. Dayānanda's daughter came today, in my lavatory.

Hari-śauri: When you were in?

Prabhupāda: Yes, I was going... (break) Generally, this baḍā are made with paṭola(?) leaves, paṭola leaves mashed and mixed with this dahi.

Evening Darsan -- August 10, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: No, this question. Anyone can become criminal, any moment. There is no question of beginning. At any moment you can begin. You are honest gentleman, very good. You are working in a nice spot. At any time, any moment, you can become a criminal and go to prison house. That is... You are prone to... As soon as you misuse your little independence, you become a criminal. That is the difficulty. You have got some independence. As soon as we misuse that independence, immediately we are criminal, go to prison house. Daivī hy eṣa guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). You cannot cheat material nature. Immediately she captures. Kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vañcha kare pasate māyā tare japati 'dhare. That beginning is possible at any moment. You haven't got to trace out the history. Even if you are very honest, you can become subjected to these criminal law at any moment. You are prone to that. So there is no use wasting time how it was begun. You are criminal. Now make your treatment that you may not become criminal again. If you go to a doctor, you have got some sickness, and if the doctor inquires, "How it began?" How it began? What business? Now I have got sickness, you treat me. That's all. What is the use of wasting time how it began? Some way or other, it has begun. Now I've come to you, make treatment. That's all. Why should we waste our time to find out the history how it began? That beginning can be possible at any moment. As soon as we misuse our little independence, immediately the beginning is there. A criminal means one who has violated the laws of the state. That is a fact. So when that violation began, so that is not very important thing. You have violated, you are in the prison house. That's all. That is important thing.

Room Conversation -- August 14, 1976, Bombay:

Indian Doctor: (laughter) By any way.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is modern civilization. Big man, big rich man means bring money some way or other. This is big man. This is Kali-yuga. Because if you have got money, you have got respect, you have got honor, you are recognized. So therefore they are after money. Bring money, that's all right. When I shall get money, I may have done black money, force money, this money, nobody will remember it. Bas. This is modern civilization. Bring money and enjoy sense. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4). What for it is, struggle so much working hard? Yad indriya-prītaya. Only for the satisfaction of the senses. They have no other ambition. Because most of them, they do not believe there is next life. Most of them, 99.9 percent, they do not believe. Big, big professor, I have talked with so many big, big men in Europe. They have no... Our leaders also. The Munshi, he did not believe in the next life.

Room Conversation About Mayapura Construction -- August 19, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Ten days? Ten days.

Jayapatākā: No, it was a three-day program. He invited us for one day. But I was afraid to go. He might even poison me. They personally went...

Prabhupāda: That is their business, especially Mādhava Mahārāja.

Jayapatākā: It not materially by poison, then spiritually by ear. One way or other, they have to give poison. So I didn't even want to go. I didn't go, either.

Prabhupāda: Śrīdhara Mahārāja is also within the group?

Jayapatākā: Of course, all those details we don't know. By the way, Tīrtha Mahārāja very sick.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Gargamuni: Oxygen.

Room Conversation -- August 22, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: When the Englishmen were ruling over this country and Gandhi had to do so much labor, his life sacrificed, some way or other they were gone. Now the same Englishman is working here as book distributor. (laughs) Who was our ruler. So whose achievement is better? Gandhi's or mine?

Gargamuni: Yours.

Prabhupāda: And one Englishman is giving me massage. This rascal criticizing. But they have come to me for money? They are poor or they are illiterate fools? They have come to me for money or some material gain? No. Unless they are convinced about the spiritual gain, why they should give me such service? They have no eyes to see.

Gargamuni: No, because in India, many Indians, when they approach a guru, they want something. But we didn't have to approach you for anything.

Prabhupāda: That is the speciality. The guru... One should go to guru to serve him as menial servant. That is acceptance of guru. That is required. Nīcavat. Nīca, nīca means menial. Just like menial servant, he does everything. Similarly, to live with guru means to serve him as a menial servant. That is Vedic injunction. Nīcavat. You should not be puffed up, that "I am coming from such royal family, I am coming from such rich family." And that tendency is trained up from the childhood. A child does not know. Just like Pradyumna's son. You can engage him in any menial service. He does not discriminate. He's trained up. So this is gurukula. Very word is used, nīcavat. He gives service to the guru just like a menial servant.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I had such experience. I had some experience in my childhood in 1911. I was thirteen years old. There was a riot. So our house was there in Mahātmā Gandhi Road, and all sides Muhammadans. We are simply... The Mulliks and our house are simply some respectable men. Otherwise it was surrounded (surrendered?) by... That is called Kwalabala and Bastik, all Muhammadans, backside fully Muhammadans. So the riot was there, and I went to play. There is a square, Marker(?) Square. So I did not know the riot has taken place. I was coming home. So one of my class friends said that "You do not go to your house. That side is rioting now." So because we are in the Muhammadan quarter, this fighting between two parties, that was going on. It is usual. So I thought it may be like that, that two guṇḍās are fighting. I have seen. One guṇḍā is stabbing the other guṇḍā. I have seen. And they are pickpockets. When you are passing they would... I have seen, he is pickpocketing. (laughter) And they were our neighbor men. So I thought "It must be like that. This is going on." But when I came the crossing of Mahatma Gandhi... At that time Harrison Road it was. Harrison Road and Holi..., Holiday, Halliday Street, yes. So one shop was being plundered. Putamat putamat putamat..." So I was child, a boy. I became... "What is this happening?" In the meantime all, my father, mother, members: "Oh, the child has not come." They became so mad, they came out of home expecting, "Wherefrom the child will come?" So what could I do? When I saw, then I began to run towards our house, and one Muhammadan, he wanted to kill me. He took his lāṭhi and actually... But I passed through some way or other. I was saved. So as soon as I came before our gate they got their life. So without speaking anything I went to the bedroom, and it was in the month of... It is winter. So I... Without saying anything I laid down, wrapping myself with quilt. So that time I was rising: "Is it ended? The riot is ended?" I was asking. I remember. So I would have been killed in that riot. So I have got experience of this riot. That is the first riot in Calcutta, in 1911.

Room Conversation -- January 4, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, with a stick. (chuckles) They are so submissive. The cow is going this side, "Raa-raa!"—immediately. (Jagadīśa laughs) When in Bible they say, "The animal is given to the care of man," like that... There is. This is care of, not that "Because we care of, we shall kill them." What is this interpretation? How demonic this Western civilization. "Because Jesus Christ, the God, has given the animals to our care, therefore we shall kill and eat." Anyway, try to introduce a renovation of civilization. Therefore they are trying to oppose us. Now they are conscious about the movement, that "If it is allowed to increase, then our program will be finished. And young men are taking. They are not rejecting." That is their concern. They are concerned about their business and industry. If these young men are held up in plain living, then where their industry...? Industry means to exploit the work of others and give them one dollar and make profit ten dollars. This is industry, at the cost of others some capitalist gaining huge profit. This is industry. "And let them live in a hellish condition, go to hell. Never mind. You work in the factory, and we make profit." The Communist is trying to take over the industry and get the whole profit. (laughs) That's all. The condition remains the same—hellish. But... What is called...? Complacent, he's satisfied that "I am getting the profit." All foolish. The Iran is also imitating European method of exploiting. They're bringing men from village. In India also, British period, they used to, that, but Indian people are little clever. They would come from the village to the city alone, not with family. They earn money and send to the family. And whenever they like, they go away. They're not dependent. And if you bring family, you have to work. That system is still going on. The village men, they come but they do not bring their family. Family remains in the village. He earns, he lives some way or other and sends money there, and the wife who is intelligent. He (she) accumulates the money and when there is enough money he (she) purchases land, investment. So... In after few years, when they have got enough land, they do not come back. They produce their own necessities. Very nice. Hare Kṛṣṇa. As soon as they are self-sufficient from the land they no more work. That's a good idea. Remain in the village with family.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Shaven-headed. These Buddhist monks, they are shaven-headed.

Hari-śauri: Even in the West they shave their heads. And they look something like that.

Prabhupāda: Well, there was some income tax office pleader. So I have given the idea that "The fifty percent, that is promotion expenditure." So he accept..., "Yes, it can be done." Where is the profit? Whatever is profit is promotion expenditure. We give to ISKCON commission, or some way or other, it is spent. So he admitted, "Yes, it can be done." And last night I was suggesting, "For promotion spend." Even if we open a temple, that is promotion.

Jagadīśa: Profit means that people are putting money in their pocket and enjoying. And we don't.

Prabhupāda: But we're not. No. If we open a center, that is propaganda center. Why do you say "temple"? But this is the way of propaganda.

Jagadīśa: Opening a new branch.

Prabhupāda: Do you follow?

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Intimate with...

Rāmeśvara: And there's also a chance to meet government leaders.

Prabhupāda: Someway or other, it is becoming popular. (chuckles) Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, should we be thinking in our minds that one day the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement will have to manage the cities and the nations of the world?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Rāmeśvara: So there are so many different departments in managing such a big thing. It requires a lot of...

Prabhupāda: No, no. We shall... If people become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then the so many nonsense departments will be reduced.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: No. Therefore I am speaking you how to answer. (long pause) So much land lying vacant. Yajñād bhavanti parjanyaḥ. There is no yajña. Therefore there is no rain. (break) ...and it will increase. Because the people will increase their godlessness, so the rainfall will stop. Now lick up your motorcar. This is going on. Anavṛṣṭya durbhikṣa dāra-pīḍitaḥ. One side, anavṛṣṭi, there is no food grain, and government taxation. People will be so harassed, they will leave their hearth and home and go to the forest. Cannot manage. (break) ...God awakening your country to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Someway or other, there is agitation. This agitation must go on and then turn it towards favorable time. Agitation is there. That is good. (japa) (break)

Rāmeśvara: They say that in the Vedas, Viṣṇu comes first and Kṛṣṇa is expansion of Viṣṇu, and we have concocted that Kṛṣṇa is the adi-puruṣa.

Prabhupāda: But he accepted that?

Rāmeśvara: No, we defeated that argument.

Prabhupāda: No, no... (break) The man who says that, so ask him that "You accept this, that Viṣṇu, there is, Supreme, and Viṣṇu's incarnation is Kṛṣṇa?"

Conversation and Instruction On New Movie -- January 13, 1977, Allahabad:

Rāmeśvara: We have devotees like that. We also have devotees who spiritually have trouble coming to the programs and even chanting, but still, they like to give them service, so we engage them anyway.

Prabhupāda: That is also qualification. That is also qualification. Some way or other, if there is some service, it goes to the credit. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya. The foolish person may not know that "I am imperceptibly advancing even during my, this material life," but Kṛṣṇa takes. Just like Pūtanā. She gave service by allowing her breast to be sucked by Kṛṣṇa. Although her intention was to kill, but Kṛṣṇa took her as mother: "She has given Me service." This is Kṛṣṇa. "This rascal does not know that nobody can kill Me, but on some plea or other, she has given her breast open to be sucked by Me, and I have done it. Therefore she is My mother. She must get the promotion like Mother Yaśodā." This is Kṛṣṇa. He is very anxious to deliver us. So any little service done, He accepts. "All right, come on. You are accepted." This is Kṛṣṇa. Little service. "Let him do something." So kind. He comes for serving you.(?) He speaks, "Rascal, you do this. Surrender to Me and do something. You'll be relived from this janma-mṛtyu vyādhi." "No." Hog, dogs, they are—what is called—obstinate. The hog, living in dirty place, eating stool, and if you try to deliver from this, he'll not: "No. No. I am living here happily. Why you are disturbing me?" This is the... "Why you are trying to wash my brain? This is very good life.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: And they are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Rāmeśvara: Yes.

Jayapatākā: You are getting everyone to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Yadaiva śraddhāiva(?). Some way or other, let them chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. So that is being done, whole countrywide. It has become a national show. (laughter)

Gargamuni: All over the world.

Prabhupāda: That is wanted.

Hari-śauri: Every town and village.

Jayapatākā: If you ask them who is Vivekananda, no one knows. But everyone knows Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: We are known as "Hare Kṛṣṇas," and sometimes "Kṛṣṇas."

Room Conversation -- January 20, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Yes, there are.

Gargamuni: And now in Orissa we have so many books. We could send a boat here and do the whole coast. The coast of Orissa, we could sell so many books in these villages.

Prabhupāda: So I have no objection. You consult amongst yourselves. I want expansion, that's all, some way or other. (laughs)

Gargamuni: But you can rest assured that I will investigate and see.

Prabhupāda: Don't make it a burden. If it is properly utilized, do it. All right. Take rest. So you want this...? (break) This is the only camp connected with that unfortunate sunhouse? (somehow?)

Indian man (1): That's... I am wondering

Indian man (2): (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Indian man (3): (Bengali)

Devotee: It is not the first day that it has happened

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Devotee: It is not the first night that it has happened.

Prabhupāda: Daily it is going on? Eh?

Devotee: Last night we had electricity, but the nights before that, we had no electricity.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) (end)

Room Conversation -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That is nice.

Rāmeśvara: Hṛdayānanda Mahārāja is becoming interested also in Africa, because it's very close to Brazil. He will also be able to send men as a demonstration of his interest.

Prabhupāda: Then do it. Some way or other, manage. It is Kṛṣṇa's business.

Rāmeśvara: I think we'll discuss this at the Māyāpur meeting.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. You are so many GBC's. You can discuss now.

Rāmeśvara: But the ones who are going to send the men aren't here.

Prabhupāda: How many GBC's you are, present now?

Hari-śauri: Gurukṛpa Mahārāja...

Rāmeśvara: Four. And Gargamuni. Five.

Prabhupāda: So what happened in Purī?

Rāmeśvara: Where's Gargamuni?

Prabhupāda: You also went. You also went.

Rāmeśvara: Yes, but he and Tejas did most of the talking in the local language.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Morning Walk -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Hari-śauri: Very bad one.

Prabhupāda: Left side paralyzed. I do not how it is saved.

Hari-śauri: By Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: And one has... One girl, that captain's wife, she studied astrology. She said, "Swamiji, if you can survive your seventieth year, then you'll live for one hundred years." So some way or other I survived my seventieth year. And I do not know whether I shall live for hundred years. But the seventieth year was severe, three heart attacks and paralysis.

Hari-śauri: All in the same year.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Without any help. At that time none of you were with me. I was alone. I was completely depending on anyone.

Hari-śauri: Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: But on the ship (indistinct)... (end)

Evening Darsana -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: All right, let us preach. That is our only business. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). (Bengali with Bhakti-caru Swami) This is family. (Bengali with guest) If you can find out, bring him some way or other. He is very qualified man, but he's misguided. I think he did not like to live separate from his wife. That is his demands, maybe. (Bengali) Very qualified man.

Pradyumna: Yes. English, Hindi, Bengali...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. And he wanted to live with me. So what happened to him? (Bengali) Now we want some Bengali literature, Bengali, Hindi. (Bengali) He has got command of the right... (Bengali)

Pradyumna: No. It's new edition.

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That is the defect.

Rāmeśvara: And they're stating that in general, to meditate, to chant mantra, this is good, this is healthy for the mind.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. The thing is that some way or other, if you are near the fire, you'll get some heat, but there is a process how to take heat.

Rāmeśvara: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: That you cannot reject. "Because I am getting little heat, it is sufficient," that is sahajiyā.

Rāmeśvara: So we are trying to use their endorsements and then make it very specific that "Therefore to meditate using the Hare Kṛṣṇa, this is healthy." So why are you attacking us?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with GBC members -- March 2-3, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: But we have to take care of the public.

Satsvarūpa: Things... Some of them mentioned were to imitate a deaf and dumb man and ask for charity, imitating that... (laughter)

Prabhupāda: That's not bad. (laughter)

Kīrtanānanda: Some boys were arrested for that, Śrīla Prabhupāda. They will arrest you in the United States if they catch you. They have done that.

Brahmānanda: That is considered fraud.

Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda, the points that we are proposing to ban will not decrease book distribution, so they can be eliminated and book distribution will not be decreased.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So the real legal thing is: some way or other, introduce books. Therefore... And it will be beneficial in the long time let us see. Read it.

Room Conversation with GBC members -- March 2-3, 1977, Mayapura:

Satsvarūpa: Resolved: Tuṣṭa Kṛṣṇa's group in New Zealand and Siddha-svarūpānanda Swami in Hawaii should pay the same price for BBT books as the temples in the ISKCON, not less, as they are paying now. It is well known that these groups preach actively against ISKCON. In response, although we should point out their philosophic defects, we should not directly confront them but remain aloof from...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In other words, no fighting with them.

Prabhupāda: This is to give them chance. They are chanting. Some way or other, keep them alive.

Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Not failed. Another man will come. Because the unemployment is there. Practically, when we were boys, children, we were purchasing mustard oil, eight annas for two-half, two-half only, kilo, first-class. In Calcutta, Kanpur mustard oil. So my father would give me eight annas. I shall go to the shop and purchase. Now that quality, even taking it..., he's now selling thirteen rupees per kilo. Will the change of government bring this thirteen rupees to three annas? Then what is the benefit? The same stool, this side or that side. People are not going to get any relief by this change of government. So we are not concerned about thirteen rupees or three annas or... Some way or other, people are getting their things. That's all right. But the real loss is to remain in animal mentality and forget the aim of life. That is the real loss.

Room Conversation -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And if the client is rich, draw.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I have noticed that in the West now they have..., they know that there are certain cures for serious illnesses, and they have outlawed these cures, because they will lose so much money.

Prabhupāda: Everything business. "Bring money. Bring money." Because money is the medium of sense gratification. They have been accustomed to sense gratification. Money is required. So bring money some way or other. And here, the civilization was plain living, simple living. Minimize the expenditure and develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then you will be happy.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Unless one lives plainly, he cannot develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānām.

Prabhupāda: Tayāpahṛta-cetasām (BG 2.44). Anyway, now you learn this art. Do good to the rest of the... That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... Don't keep them in ignorance. That is paropakāra. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... All saintly persons do like that. Especially Caitanya Mahāprabhu. This civilization is so dangerous. Demonic. Formerly, political fighting is always there. People had no concept. Democracy means that every man has to take part in the competition.

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now so many charges are coming against her. (pause) Hm? She and her son are the destiny of India? A woman and a debauch? They can do whatever they like. It's a farce condition. That so-called democracy is nonsense demoncracy. And by this demoncracy, it can be done. A demon may be, if he can simply secure votes. What is the position? Without any training Formerly the destiny was by rājarṣi. Royal power, but ṛṣi, saintly person. See the character of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, Parīkṣit, Ambarīṣa. (aside:) At least, you cover some way or other with some cloth. Find out some cloth or towel, and cover it. Yes. All rogues, they are political leaders. Political leader means rogue. Nowadays, these... Here is so-called religious leader, Sai Baba, another rogue. This is Kali-yuga. (Hindi) There is no good man politician. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyāḥ (SB 1.1.10). Sumanda-matayaḥ. They have got a conception which is very, very bad, conception of religion, social, political. All condemned.

Room Conversation Meeting with Dr. Sharma (from Russia) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: You have got this copy?

Dr. Sharma: The Russians, they are all, they are not a very (indistinct) people. Their government is standing in the way.

Guest (2): The younger generation, as you are presenting, of India and the developing countries it's okay. In some way or another they have known the existence of God, whether they call Him Christ or someone. We can convince them later. But the very fact that they have denied the acceptance, that requires a special treatment. So you should make something different (indistinct). I find it very difficult to go to...

Prabhupāda: And one thing, very commonsense reason...

Dr. Sharma: Common sense is not common. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: No. Even they have no common sense... Just like sarva-dughā, what is called, sarva-kāma-dughā mahī. From earth, so many things are coming. The grass is coming, the tree is coming, and animals, they eat grass, they are coming, the human... Everything is coming. So Kṛṣṇa says that the material nature is the mother, because mother is giving birth. So the child is there, the mother is there, and who is the father? You cannot say that without father, a child can be born, or the mother can independently give birth to any offspring. That is not possible.

Morning Talk -- April 25, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now the... We can see practically how the system of civilization is bad, that this Indira Gandhi, rākṣasī, she became exalted in the topmost rank, and she thought... A person who is equally good or more than her, he was imprisoned. Then how the system is bad, that a rogue comes to the topmost post and a good man is put into the prison? Is not the system defective? Imperfect? Some way or other, you can become very important, and the actually important man you can cut down.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Envious system.

Prabhupāda: Animal.

Srila Prabhupada Vigil -- May 28-29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Jayapatākā: The other temples they have not even maintained. Only Caitanya Maṭha somehow or another they are maintaining, but the other branches are falling apart.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The same condition as it was. They have no life, dead body. Now it will deteriorate more and more. Tīrtha Mahārāja, envious, managing. And they will not give. So tit for tat. You can do that. Then that is very glorious. That is a different country, different law. Some way or other, if you get the sympathizer, then take it.

Srila Prabhupada Vigil -- May 28-29, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And these ācārya and president, they are less than paid servant. They are afraid of.

Jayapatākā: Yeah, Tīrtha's brother and some...

Prabhupāda: That "Some way or other, we're keeping some position." And if Samvit kicked him out, then where is his position? That is another problem. This Rādhā-Govinda Mahārāja, what he can do if he's driven away? In this age he cannot have his own institution. And in this age where he'll go? They are... "These politicians, these old men, they cannot do now. So give them some false position, that 'You are president, ācārya.' They will not rebel at least." And as soon as they do something against them, "We shall drive away: 'No, you cannot be president. Another president.' " That's all. They had no love for him, neither he has any love for them. It is simply official. This Samvit dāsa one, Samvit, also not very intelligent. Tīrtha Mahārāja's son, he wants to keep the property in his name and utilize it for his personal... That way... Preaching and preaching and..., they don't care for. And you said that there is some, still some strength amongst themselves.

Room Conversation with Mr. Myer -- July 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: There is a street, Loiya Bazaar. So there is a Punjabi's shop. He makes all preparation, first-class ghee. So whenever I used to pass that area, at least fifty customers are waiting. Somebody wanting something, somebody wanting something. That gave me the impression that if you have goods genuine, customer will come. If your dealing is straightforward and the goods are nice. So, so many religious institution and missionary and other, they are all over the world. Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, substantial, genuine, so why this will not be appreciated if we present properly? So I fought on that, and some way or other it is successful.

Room Conversation with Vrindavan De -- July 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Today? Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2).

Prabhupāda: No, no. Munayaḥ sādhu pṛṣṭo 'haṁ bhavadbhir loka-maṅgalam, kṛṣṇa-sampraśno yenātmā suprasīdati (SB 1.2.5). Happiness is there. Unless you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, there is no question of... This is a false happiness, that "If I get money, I'll be happy." That is false. So many men, they have got money. We see practically. The whole European civilization, American civilization, is based on this fundamental idea that "Let us have money and we shall be happy." And nobody is happy. Nobody is happy, a single man. Very big, big buildings, very nice car, very nice road, but there is no question of happiness. Always restlessness. Is it not? They are practically proved. And becoming implicated, karma-bandha, loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9), one after another, one after another. Because he is not independent, he is under karma-bandhana. If you touch fire, it must burn you. You cannot avoid it. That is not possible. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sar... (BG 3.27), ahaṅkāra-vimūḍha. Are you independent? Suppose if you touch fire, are you independent that your finger will not burn? It must burn. So you'll search after so much so-called happiness—they're simply burning their finger, that's all. Karma-bandhanaḥ. Yajñārthe karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). So I'm insisting you about this distribution of the book. That is a service. If you can do some pushing on these books some way or other, you get material profit; at the same time, it is service.

Room Conversation with Vrindavan De -- July 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. Not just a business.

Prabhupāda: No. That is not my proposal. Why shall I engage you in business, karma-bandhana? That is not. If you can give little service, that is benefit. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. They are doing without any personal profit. You are gṛhastha. You can take some profit. That's all. But it is service. Anyone who will give some service to Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, he'll make progress. Therefore I'm trying to engage everyone in this movement some way or other. A little help, svalpam api. It is such a nice thing. With that spirit you do and live comfortably. There is no question of unnecessarily taking a life of poverty-stricken. There is no necessity. But there is no necessity of luxurious life. And luxurious will already come for devotees. That I have already example. Who can live more luxuriously than ourself? Where is that? It is practical. All over the world we are living like princes. Princes even cannot live like that. All our devotees, and what to speak of myself? Six crores of rupees one house, who can possess? How many men there are in the world who has got many houses, each six crores of rupees? Hm? Bolo.

Room Conversation about Grhasthas -- July 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not? In a building there are so many different types of men. In a big building, apartment building, you cannot expect all of them of the same class.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. 'Cause in Bombay you had said that is was better that in an immediate building of the temple they should not live together with wife. They should live separately.

Prabhupāda: No, that is, they are not doing business. They are attached to temple activities. Anyway, these things have to be adjusted. You cannot follow very rigid in case of gṛhasthas. Some way or other, you have to adjust. We cannot allow them to be lost.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. That's clear.

Prabhupāda: Better allow them to live together. What can be done? But we cannot lose them. After training so much, if they are lost, then that is a great loss. This I am giving hint. Now you GBC, you change them. Make process.

Room Conversation With Svarupa Damodara -- October 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Abhirāma: When Alexander the Great was going to conquer India, first of all he asked Socrates, "What shall I bring you?" So Socrates, he just requested him, "You bring me the water from the holy Ganges."

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Abhirāma: "And you bring those sacred texts which are studied by the holy men in India. These are the only two things I want." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...some way or other it has become successful.