Prabhupāda: Modern sociology is targeting the state or the people as the owner of a certain state, but our Vedic conception is īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ: (ISO 1) "Everything is owned by Īśa, the Supreme Controller." Tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā: "What is given by Him, allotted to you, you enjoy that." Mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam: "But we not encroach upon others' property." This is Īśopaniṣad, Vedas. And the same idea is explained in different Purāṇas. So the Vedas can give you... The other day I was reading in the, that paper, Moscow News, there was a congress, Communist congress, and the president declared that "We are ready to get others' experience to improve." So I think the Vedic concept of socialism or communism will much improve the idea of communism. Just like we are thinking in terms of human beings, the commu..., socialistic state, that "Nobody should starve. Everyone must have his food." And in the Vedic conception of gṛhastha, householder, it is recommended there that a householder shall see that even a lizard living in the room or even a snake living in that house should not starve. They should be also given food. And what to speak of others? The gṛhastha, before taking his lunch, he is recommended to stand on the road and declare that "If anybody is still hungry, please come. Food is ready." Then, if there is no response, then the proprietor of the household life, he takes his lunch. In this way there are so many good concept about this socialistic idea of communism. So I thought that these ideas might have been distributed to some of your thoughtful men. Therefore I was anxious to speak with you.
Sociology (Conversations)
Expressions researched:
"sociological"
|"sociologist"
|"sociologists"
|"sociology"
|"sociopolitical"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So Vedic authorities, authoritative statement, are accepted by the ācāryas. Just like India is governed by the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, and Śaṅkarācārya. They accept in that, and the followers accept them. The benefit is that whether cow dung is pure or impure, I do not waste my time, but because it is stated in the Vedas, I take it, so I save my time. Śruti-pramāṇa. In that way there are different statements in the Vedas for sociology and politics and anything because Vedas means knowledge. Vedas means knowledge. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). Vetti veda vido jñāne. Vid-dhātu, when it is used for knowledge, it is called Veda.
Guest: But today, I think, the scientific knowledge people will not accept all this, what you are saying only. They would perhaps like to try it once more, and perhaps, after going through the process of examination of theirs, they accept it if it is true.
Prof. Kotovsky: Yes, well correct. As I have already said our approach, the approach of people today, new era of knowledge everywhere in the world...
Guest: Try once more.
Prof. Kotovsky: Try once more. You are right. And also nobody would believe in anything without argument.
Prabhupāda: No, arguments are allowed.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes. For weeks they prepare. And the competition is the more items the temple prepares, he becomes... (break) And distribution, prasāda distribution, free of charges. It was a very nice system that nobody should remain hungry. That is the system. If there is any temple in any neighborhood, in that neighborhood nobody should remain hungry. The Vedic system is that in your house, a householder shall see that even a lizard in the house is not hungry. He must also be given food. Even there is a snake—nobody likes snake—but a Vedic householder has to call the snake and give him food. He also may not remain hungry. This is the... And these things will be explained in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that anything, wherever it is, on land, on the air, sky, within the water, everywhere, God's kingdom; and all living entities, they are God's sons. So everyone has got the right to take advantage of his father's property. This is Bhāgavata communism. The communists are thinking in terms of their own country. But we, a devotee, we think in terms of all living entities, wherever he is, either in the sky or in the land or in the water. These things are explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Everything, politics, sociology, religion, philosophy, science, astronomy—everything is there in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And we should not take this movement as a religious movement. It is not religious movement. It is a movement for understanding knowledge. Veda. Veda means knowledge. So religion, according to English dictionary, is a kind of faith. Faith you can change. You have faith today in something. Tomorrow you may change. So this is knowledge. Any human being must be interested with advancement of knowledge. So you are waiting to stop me?
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: So as so far the differences, there is no difference, because just like this body: the body has got different parts—the fingers, the hands, the eyes, the legs, so many different—but the whole purpose is to serve the body. Either with the finger or eyes or hands or legs, the whole purpose is centered on the soul of the complete whole body. Similarly, Bhāgavata says that whatever you may—you may be scientist, you may be philosopher, you may be an engineer, you may be a poet, you may be sociologist, politician, whatever you may be-their purpose should be avicyutaḥ arthaḥ. Avicyutaḥ means infallible purpose. Avicyutaḥ arthaḥ kavibhih nirūpitaḥ. "It has been decided by great learned scholar," says "all of them should be engaged in glorifying the Supreme." Avicyuto 'rthaḥ kavibhir nirūpito yad-uttamaśloka-guṇānuvarṇanam. The scientists, from their angle of vision, should describe the glory of the Lord: how this biology is working by the manipulation of the Supreme Lord. Similarly chemists, physicists, engineers, politicians, there are different departments, but all of them should join together, congregation, and from their different scientific point, angle of vision, they should glorify the Supreme Lord.
Krishna Tiwari: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. A big rascal. That's it. A big rascal. A big rascal is eulogized by small rascals. That's all.
Dr. Hauser: Seducing a small rascal.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Dr. Hauser: Seducing a small rascal.
Prabhupāda: Another small rascal. This is the position. Everything is going on like that. Not only in science, philosophy, religion, sociology, politics. The, a big rascal and small rascal. That's all.
Dr. Hauser: But you must evoke quite a lot of feelings when you say, for example, that Einstein was a very big rascal.
Prabhupāda: No. He believed in God. Yes. He believed in God. He was not a rascal. A sane man.
Paramahaṁsa: Carl Jung also.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He believed in God.
Dr. Hauser: Yes.
Prabhupāda: He tried to find out the brain of God. So he's not rascal. He's sane man. Those who are defying God, they're rascal, demons. Einstein believed in God. Yes. There are many scientists, they believe in God. Harāv abhaktasya kuto... Unless one is God conscious, he's a rascal. Immediately, take it. We take it like that. As soon as you say godless, atheist, oh, a rascal. That's all. It may be the understanding of God is not so perfect. But he thinks there is God. That is intelligence. That is intelligence. And the demons will never accept God. Just like in Russia. All set of rascals. They do not believe in God.
Śyāmasundara: I mean I don't need to really.
Prabhupāda: ...about politics.
Śyāmasundara: She knows it. She knows that you... And also this American ambassador could use some favorable publicity.
Prabhupāda: No, this Bhagavad-gītā contains everything—politics, sociology, religion, philosophy. So this culture should be spread; this India's culture, original culture, should be spread. And we are endeavoring that. And it is becoming successful.
Śyāmasundara: Also we are meeting the Minister of Defence, Jagjivana Rama. And Dr. Karan Singh is coming back on Monday. He's been out. And Kumar Shankara Diksit tomorrow morning also, the Minister of...
Prabhupāda: Kumar Shankara Diksit.
Śyāmasundara: ...Home Affairs. Minister of Home Affairs.
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Śyāmasundara: Big post.
Prabhupāda: Well, these politicians are politicians. Anyway, we...
Śyāmasundara: At least, if they come, everything will be successful.
Prabhupāda: Indira, simply Indira Gandhi comes, it will be tremendous success.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. Crowds will come. People will donate money for the pandala.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: (break) (Bengali) Hare Kṛṣṇa and dance. Do this. (break) ...and for constructing four buildings like that. (break) Kṛṣṇa took part in politics. So what is His politics? What is His sociology? What is His culture?
Guest: Support the right minority?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Guest: Support the right minority?
Prabhupāda: There is no question of minority. Support the right person. Kṛṣṇa supported Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira in place of Duryodhana. So formerly it was monarchy. That is perfect politics. This democracy is useless. It has proved. One man, the king, he should be properly educated how to rule, what is the aim of ruling, how the people will be, I mean to say, culturally elevated, what is that culture. (break) There was a consulting board of learned brāhmaṇas and saintly persons. They would advise the monarch how to rule.
Jayapatākā: This is... This is the land here.
Prabhupāda: This is the land?
Prabhupāda: Bhāva, bhāva. Bhāva means love, feelings, feelings of love, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is so great."
Dr. Patel: Mac-cittā mad-gata-prāṇāḥ.
Prabhupāda: And that is being described.
Dr. Patel: Bodhayantaḥ parasparam, kathayantaś ca māṁ nityaṁ tuṣyanti ca ramanti ca.
Prabhupāda: Ramanti ca, yes. So instead of talking of Kṛṣṇa, they talk of politics, sociology, all nonsense. Simply waste of time.
Dr. Patel: Mad-gata-prāṇāḥ.
Prabhupāda: One cannot talk of Kṛṣṇa unless he is kṛṣṇa-gata-prāṇāḥ. Kṛṣṇa-gata-prāṇāḥ. Just like your loveable objects, you cannot forget even for a moment, similarly, one who has developed real love for Kṛṣṇa, he cannot do without thinking of Kṛṣṇa, without talking of Kṛṣṇa, without acting for Kṛṣṇa. Mad-gata-prāṇāḥ.
Prabhupāda: Yes, and the grains are put within it and they are all smashed. But one grain who takes shelter of the center, the pivot, it is not smashed. Similarly the modern civilization is such that everyone will be smashed. And one takes the central point shelter, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he will not be. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31). So best thing is to take shelter of Kṛṣṇa and save yourself. Save means... This is saving, if you simply understand Kṛṣṇa. Janma karma... Kṛṣṇa appears, disappears. Kṛṣṇa works here also, in the battlefield or in other field. Kṛṣṇa has a whole activity. You study Kṛṣṇa Book, beginning from the birth up to the point of His leaving this world. Full of activities. Not that because He is God, He is sitting one place. No. Full of activities in all different spheres of life. Art, philosophy, politics, sociology, military arts—everything complete. That is Kṛṣṇa.
Prof. Regamay: Yes, of course.
Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa. If He would have appeared as Viṣṇu with four-handed, then He had to take only worship. That's all. No other activity. Therefore He appeared with two hands like human being. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). So simply if we understand what are the activities of Kṛṣṇa, then we become eligible to go back to home, back to Godhead. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar. We are teaching that thing, "You try to understand Kṛṣṇa and all problems of life solved. You go back to home, back to Godhead."
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayādvaita: Politics, economics.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayādvaita: Sociology.
Prabhupāda: Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavanti. If you know Kṛṣṇa, then you understand everything. That is the Vedic injunction. Yasmin vijñāte. If you simply understand Kṛṣṇa... In Bhagavad-gītā, it is also said that "There will be no more anything to understand." In the Ninth Chapter? What is that verse? Can anyone say?
Jayādvaita: The Fifteenth Chapter.
Prabhupāda: Avaśiṣyate. Jñātavyam avaśiṣyate. You cannot...?
Santoṣa: Yaj jñātvā...
Prabhupāda: ...cannot recite, the whole verse?
Santoṣa: Yaj jñātvā neha bhūyo 'nyaj.
Prabhupāda: That is the second line. First line?
Santoṣa: Sa evaṁ guhyatamaṁ vakṣyāmy aśeṣataḥ.
Prabhupāda: Vakṣyāmy... Yes, that is the verse. Yaj jñātvā anyaj jñātavyam na avaśiṣyate. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is such a great science that if one becomes expert, then he knows everything.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore those who are in high standard, they do not take anything as wrong. Everyone is suffering his own reaction. Then bhaktas, they think, tat te 'nukampāṁ susamīkṣamāṇo bhuñjāna evātma-kṛtaṁ vipākam (SB 10.14.8). When a devotee is in trouble, he thinks that "I am suffering for my past deeds. (break) ...me." That is a devotee's attitude. "Let me do my business, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." And then he is sure. Such person is assured to come back. He doesn't care for all this suffering. He thinks, "I am suffering for my past deeds. That's all. Why shall I bother myself? Let me do my present duty, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa." That is the first-class position. He is assured. In spite of all material difficulties, if he goes on with chanting, then his chance is first. That is stated. Dāya-bhāk. Dāya-bhāk means he inherits God's property as the son's inherits the father's property. Dāya-bhāk. So we should be callous with all these political, social... We should simply go on. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He was callous. Family affairs, wife's responsibility, for mother's responsibility for... Nothing. Simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ (CC Adi 17.31). That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's life. Even didn't care for anything, no responsibility. "My only business is chanting." That is... You preach for some time. Then you simply engage in chanting. Preaching means to make him strong, preaching, to become firmly convinced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is preaching. So when he is firmly convinced, then he can give up preaching and sit down and simply chant. Not in the beginning. That is imitation. He must be firmly convinced. So we have to study Caitanya Mahāprabhu's life. Except—this is the clear and simple truth—except chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, there is no other business of the human being. So this preaching is also chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. This is preaching. That has been shown by all the disciples of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. All the Gosvāmīs, Haridāsa Ṭhākura and others, only did that, how to develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness, no other business. That is sannyāsa. He has no other business. To preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to practice Kṛṣṇa consciousness, to convince Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that's all, no other business. We don't take part in politics, sociology, and mental speculation, "science," or so on, so on, all nonsense. We reject, all kicked out. That is the perfection. It is simply waste of time. These are all superficial. Just like waves in the sea. Where is the meaning? The waves are going on. Oh, very nice. You collected all these flowers?
Prabhupāda: Three hours. I was there. Up to eleven o'clock at night there is sun, and then perhaps twelve or half past twelve, there is night. That is also not full dark. And at three o'clock, again sun. So many hours? Eleven to three. (break) ...above Sweden there is no night tonight.
Brahmānanda: Yes. (break)
Prabhupāda: There is no day?
Brahmānanda: Yes. (break) ...sociological problems there. Because when it's all night, people become very depressed and there's a high suicide rate. So they have been trying to have these artificially lights to light up the cities and make it appear as if it was daytime.
Jayatīrtha: Why not just make one big sun, big scientists?
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Still they do not accept God. (break) ...ājñayā bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakro. Everything is. (break) ...cribing the whole universal situation, Śukadeva Gosvāmī concluded, "as God has made it." He never mentioned any other demigod. "As God has made it." Yathā bhagavān kriyetām (break) ...not to accept the authority of Kṛṣṇa, misfortune. Narādhama. (break) (walking:) ...kara bhai, ara saba mithyā, palaya patha nara yo mache piche(?): "Everyone should take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Remember, behind you there is the Yamarāja, death." (break) ...to avoid this horrible conception that there is death, and they avoid this, that "There is death, but there is no life again." That's all. (break) ...this dog race and what is the rat race? There is a word, rat race?
Jayatīrtha: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: So you have given up the Vaiṣṇava-sadācāra for business selling. So you can be dangerous for that.
Devotee (1): But we have also maintained the Vaiṣṇava-sadācāra. They didn't tell us...
Prabhupāda: That's all right. You do that. But they do not see whether you are maintaining.
Devotee (1): But at the same time, when we were maintaining that, we had the same problems, is that, when we presented sociological applications of the philosophy, for instance, to arrange marriages in a reasonable way, that the women not be sent out on saṅkīrtana to prostitute themselves to sell books, but be trained up to be wives, or that the brahmacārīs in the temple, someone would sit and talk with them and see how many of them want to be married and try and arrange some type of training for them, knowing that most of them are going to become married, rather than just have no training and one day find oneself married, out on the street with no occupation or training.
Prabhupāda: First of all, you are not trained up. You are sometimes becoming astrologer, sometimes this, sometimes that.
Devotee (1): It's true, because of my birth in this...
Prabhupāda: So how they can follow you?
Devotee (2): We're not asking them to follow us. We're asking you Prabhupāda, that these are some problems.
Prabhupāda: My request is that first of all you adopt yourself the Vaiṣṇava ācāra. Then you try to teach others. Otherwise you have no right.
Prabhupāda: Na satyaṁ teṣu vidyate. This is the whole population. They do not know... There are big, big nation, big, big philosopher, big, big scientists and all very big, but what kind of life they should live, they do not know. What is the accurate destination of our life, that they do not know. And all humbug, big, big scientist, philosopher, theologist, and so on, so on, politician, sociologist, welfare. But real thing, they are rascal. They do not know which way we have to go. So what is the use of these big, big words? They do not know which way to go. Suppose we are walking. If we go to the this side without knowing that "This is water; we should not go," then what is the use? That is their defect. Pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca na vidur āsurāḥ janā. Na śaucaṁ nāpi cācāro (BG 16.7). (chuckles) Śaucam, cleanliness, they do not know, neither behavior. Nāpi cācāro. Jagad āhur anīśvaram; (BG 16.8) "Oh, there is no God. It has come out out of the sand." This is the whole population. Jagad ahur anīśvaram (BG 16.8). Which way we shall go? (break) Therefore we require vigorous propaganda to make these fools to understand what is the real aim of life. That should be our propaganda. Idam adya mayā labdham imaṁ prāpsye punar dhanam. They have simply calculated, "Now today the bank balance is now three millions dollars, and tomorrow it will be four million." Simply, they say. Idaṁ prāpsye punar dhanam. And everyone is proud, "Who is greater than me? Who can understand more than me? I am very great man." Āḍhyo mām abhi... What is that? Āḍhyo mām, hmm? "I am the richest man. I am the most aristocratic. I have killed so many enemies. Now I shall kill that enemy." Everything is described in the Bhagavad-gītā. This is their position.
Prabhupāda: The thing is that any system you take, without God consciousness it is zero. Just like hundreds and thousands of zeros, if you put together, the value is zero. But if you put one, the value increases immediately. That one is God. So either in politics or in sociology or philosophy, religion, everywhere, if there is no God sense, it is all zero. That is going on. Therefore, despite all advancement of education, economic development, people are in chaotic condition, they are not satisfied, and everything is being tried to make it very nice. The United Nation is there, working for the last thirty years, but there is no solution because it is all zero without God. Bring God and everything will be nice. Take any question, just like economic question. There is now very acute, especially in our country. Now, the God says that "Your economic problem will be solved like this." What is that? Annād bhavanti bhūtāni: (BG 3.14) "You produce sufficient quantity of food grains." Annād bhavanti bhūtāni: "Then both the animals and man will sufficiently eat, and they will be satisfied." What is the wrong there? You must have sufficient food. Then annād bhavanti bhūtāni. And anna, producing anna, you require cloud in the sky. And that is produced by yajña. So one after another. So people must be satisfied first of all by eating sumptuously. So instead of producing food grains, you are very much busy for producing motor tires. So motor tire will not make the hungry people satisfied. So everything is there, practical, whatever is advised in the Bhagavad-gītā.
Brahmānanda: Well, not unless they follow our movement. But those who have followed our movement... Recently there was one study that was published by a very eminent sociologist in America from the University of California, the (sic:) Union Theological Center, and he stated in that book that the members of this movement, formerly they were drug-addicted hippies, and now they have become servants of Kṛṣṇa and humanity, loving servants. So he has given proof through intensive interviews that one who follows and joins this movement, dramatically his life becomes changed.
Prabhupāda: Perfect. He is a big professor, and his books are being sold in higher circles. Professor Judah. And he has studied this movement for five years. And... You have got that book?
Brahmānanda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Show him. So they are appreciating. Appreciation has begun. Formerly they thought it is another edition of hippie movement, but now they are realizing it is not. A cultural. He has given the name of the book, Hare Kṛṣṇa and Counterculture. He is selling at the cost of twelve dollars; still, all high class, educated class, are purchasing.
Guest (3) (Indian man): Have you any program for the common people?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Common people have joined. Everyone. We are opening centers so that any common man from any caste, any creed, any nation, they can come and join.
Prabhupāda: He has written one foreword.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So these books are being accepted as the authority, at least in America and England, so far as studies of Indian culture are concerned, philosophy, sociology. And you can see the beautiful presentation. Each Sanskrit is there, transliteration so that anyone can chant, word-for-word Sanskrit to English translation, translation in English, and then the purport, a commentary.
Prof. Olivier: That's right. This is a good edition. Good edition.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Professor Dimmock, he says that there are many, many translations of Bhagavad-gītā, and he says that "By bringing us a new and living interpretation of a text already known to many, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda has increased our understanding manyfold." So although it's been prevalent in America... I know that when I was studying Humanities in college in the University of Florida, Bhagavad-gītā was required. And we read one edition, but it was very much limited. Until we come in contact with Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, the understanding is very much limited. But it's not a sectarian approach. It's purely scientific and realistic. There are many such reviews.
Prof. Olivier: Well, this is a good letter.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's from Utaḥ State University.
Prof. Olivier: Yeah, sociology. It's a good letter. It would be a good letter to have a copy.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. I can make copies of some of these letters and bring them by. Will you be in your office on Monday?
Prof. Olivier: I have a meeting in the morning, but my secretary...
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: I can leave it there. And all of these books are readily available here in stock.
Prof. Olivier: Are they?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. We have thousands and thousands of books here in South Africa.
Prof. Olivier: In South Africa?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes. Very, very reasonable prices.
Prabhupāda: Your Sanskrit professor, he has seen?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The Sanskrit professor has noted that he would like to take the whole set of books.
Prof. Olivier: What's his name, this professor, Zanenberg?(?)
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: One of the devotees spoke to him, but he wanted that I should go back and see him.
Prabhupāda: Where he is? Call him, that devotee who saw him.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Rādhāvallabha: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: Many modern sociologists, they are predicting that in twenty or thirty years the population will increase so much on this planet that the cities will be very, very crowded, and there will be many, many new problems: no room for so many cars and not enough food, not enough housing. They predict very, very.... And then the result will be rioting. So many people will not have enough food and good places to live that they will...
Prabhupāda: So why don't you go back to home, back to Godhead? (laughs) We are trying to save them. Why you are rotting in this problem? (out of car) That reporter?
Rāmeśvara: "No obstacle."
Hari-śauri: "Death is not a problem."
Prabhupāda: They are predicting so many problems, and still the rascals will say there is no problem. Padaṁ yad vipadām. The material world is so made that in every step there is problems. (break) ...na teṣām.
Rāmeśvara: They say that as the population increases in the cities, there must be rioting and fighting. There will be so many people without the minimum necessities of life, so much exploitation of the rich upper class.
Prabhupāda: Why not go to New Vrindaban? That they will not do.
Rāmeśvara: There is no training how to live in New Vrindaban. They are educated only to live in the cities and work like mūḍhas. Even now.... One of the biggest problems that they're predicting is unemployment. They cannot...
Prabhupāda: Yes. In America it has begun, what to speak of other countries.
Prabhupāda: Simple thing. And then live comfortably, eat comfortably, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Comfortably does not mean satisfaction of the senses. Comfortably means we require primary necessities, to eat something, to sleep somewhere or have some sex—this is also bodily need—and to defend, that's all. These are the primary necessities. That can be arranged anywhere. God has given all facilities. Grow your own food, eat, and live anywhere. Just this place was rough like that, now it is handled nicely, it is very attractive. (Bengali) Any damn place, you cleanse it, it becomes home. And any nasty man, you decorate him, he becomes a bridegroom. (laughs) (Bengali) (japa) Let Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement give this sense to these rascals. They do not know how to adjust things. They simply plan their United Nations, but they do not know what is that plan. Yes. United Nations. First of all why nation? Why manufacture nation and create trouble and again ununited? Nation—this word is not there in the Vedic language. There's no conception of nation. There is conception of varṇāśrama, everywhere. Not for any particular nation or any particular country, but everyone, according to quality-first-class men, second-class men, third-class men. That is there everywhere. Everywhere you go, you find some people first-class intelligent, some people less than him, some people less than him, up to fourth class, that's all. And then fifth class. So everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Now you try to implement. Perfect human life. Let any sociologist, politician come forward. We shall convince them that this is only way. Why you are wasting time and barking dog in the United Nations for the last forty years and doing nothing? What I said, barking dogs? You have read it? I accused them as barking dogs, Melbourne, and they published in the paper. Actually, this is the fact.
Prabhupāda: They have become less intelligent on account of their bad habits.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: This man, there's a Professor Mitra, he's in Emory University in Department of Sociology. They claim he's a Vedantist, and they have a group. And this Das, actually his name was Das, he told me that he has Śrīla Prabhupāda's Bhagavad-gītā As It Is and worships it, he recites every day. And he told me that he praises very much, that it's the best Gītā he has seen. So although he's involved in something else, but still he's taking Śrīla Prabhupāda's.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Any man who is reasonable, he'll come. If he's animal, he cannot come. That is the difference. The first charge is that anyone who is in bodily concept of life, he's animal. First of all, refute. If you are thinking that "I am this body," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am American," "I am this," "I am that," then you are animal. This is our first charge. What they will answer? What is the difference? If a dog is thinking "I am dog," and I am thinking "I am Indian" or "American," what is the difference? What is the difference between the dog and the man? That first charge should be answered. Then further questions can be...
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So it seems to be that we need some strong preaching in Calcutta, in Bengal. We want to attract some intellectuals.
Prabhupāda: No, there are many intellectuals. Not that...
Devotee: Science, philosophy, economics, sociology. For the scholarly, academic community.
Prabhupāda: Yes, socially you can teach how this cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13), how it is scientific. In the society, if there is... Actually we have. Just like why these, maybe so-called scientists, but why the scientists are given so much importance? Because there is a brain. So if you make everyone equal, all śūdras, then who will be the brain? The brain is required. That is brāhmaṇa. So this, not this brain, this brain is śūdra brain for everyone. But when the... But just like here is Dr. Svarūpa Dāmodara, or you are here. So you are not scientists from the very birth. You have been trained up how to become a scientist. Similarly, the birth is there. Whatever you may be, it doesn't matter. But you have to be trained up how to become first-class brain. That is brāhmaṇa. You have to become truthful, you have to become controller of the senses, you have to become fully aware of things, of God, everything, full knowledge, then you become brain. These people give scientists so much importance because there is brain. Brain, in the society, there must be brain. So without brain how the society can go on? If you simply produce motor mechanics, then? Brain must be there. Just like this is brain, Sanātana Gosvāmī is asking, ke āmi, kene āmāya jāre tāpa-traya. This is brain. "I don't want some uncomfortable situation, but why it is enforced?" So when you make research into that, that is brain. And if we remain like animal, "All right, they are dragging me to the slaughterhouse, that's all right, let me go," that is not brain. Brain means that I am seeking after perfect happiness, why I am not allowed to have this perfect happiness? That is brain. The question, if there is any remedy. They are doing this. Scientific brain means there are so many problems, they are trying to solve it. That requires brain. But because they are poor scientists, they do not know how to make a solution of the ultimate problem. They are making tiny problems, that's all.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Anything grown in the garden, that is hundred times valuable than it is purchased from the market. (pause) Bhagavad-gītā is a book which can guide the whole human society. In all different branches of knowledge, namely in politics, in sociology, in religion, in culture, in philosophy, in economics, everything, all lines are described very vividly, and the human society can take advantage of it. The Bhagavad-gītā begins in the battlefield with politics. And when Arjuna declined to fight, how Kṛṣṇa chastised him, that is described, kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame samupasthitam. Find out this verse.
Bhagavān: You tell him what Prabhupāda said.
Prabhupāda: You can ask him to open that book. Then read it. (translation read in French) So what is the difficulty in understanding? Ask him. This is military. Kṛṣṇa is asking that "You are in the battlefield. Wherefrom you got this cowardice mentality?" This is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā teaches how to become a brave hero in the battlefield. This is the instruction. Kutas tvā kaśmalam idaṁ viṣame sam. Just read the purport. Is there any purport? (purport read in French) (break) ...difficulty to understand.
Translator: He finds it very admirable that from a small verse you are able to always find something new and wonderful to say about it. And he say you go from verse to verse, and the complexity of what you explain is always new and wonderful to read. So he's very admiring of the book.
Prabhupāda: Then there is no more God. God cannot be servant of anyone. God is master. As soon as He becomes servant, He's no more God. Then you are God. Then you do not know what is the meaning of God. Therefore you are rascal. You do not know the meaning of God and you are trying to explain God. Therefore you are a rascal. The difficulty is at the present moment, rascals are leading the human society. No sane man, only rascals. Their philosophy, their science, their politics, their sociology, because they are guided by the rascals, everything is bad.
Nava-yauvana: They are the biggest cheaters, so everyone becomes cheater.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Difficulty is there is no education. Mūḍha. There is no education, there is no check, therefore people remain duṣkṛtina, sinful, mūḍha, rascal, lowest of the men, narādhama, and their so-called education has no value, there is no real knowledge, therefore they are suffering. Why the government keeps police department? To check these sinful activities. But they do not know what is sinful activity. They are allowed to continue sinful activity.
Dayānanda: They judge everything on the basis of what is good for humanity.
Prabhupāda: But they do not know what is good because they are uneducated rascals. What do they know what is good for humanity?
Dayānanda: Whatever gives pleasure to the greatest number of people.
Harikeśa: "The Lord at once took the position of the teacher and chastised the student, calling him, indirectly, a fool. The Lord said, 'You are talking like a learned man, but you do not know that one who is learned—one who knows what is body and what is soul—does not lament for any stage of the body, neither in the living nor in the dead condition.' As it will be explained in later chapters, it will be clear that knowledge means to know matter and spirit and the controller of both. Arjuna argued that religious principles should be given more importance than politics or sociology, but he did not know that knowledge of matter, soul and the Supreme is even more important than religious formularies. And, because he was lacking in that knowledge, he should not have posed himself as a very learned man."
Prabhupāda: Yes. He was posing himself as the body. So he should not consider himself as a learned man. Nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. Then?
Harikeśa: "As he did not happen to be a very learned man, he was consequently lamenting for something which was unworthy of lamentation. This body is born and is destined to be vanquished today or tomorrow; therefore the body is not as important as the soul. One who knows this is actually learned, and for him there is no cause for lamentation, regardless of the condition of the material body."
Prabhupāda: The people are not aware of these things, neither they are interested to know that the soul is more important than the body. This is the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā. Still, they are placing themselves as learned scholars in Bhagavad-gītā. But sticking to the body. And one who is sticking to the bodily concept of life, he's no better than sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). The whole civilization is going on this understanding of body. And then Kṛṣṇa begins that instruction, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). That is very vividly explained, that the soul is important because it is eternal, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Don't think by the end of the body the soul is also ended. It will continue, and it accepts another body, tathā dehāntara-prāptir dhīras tatra na muhyati (BG 2.13).
Hari-śauri: Hm. (continues reading) "...whose worship of Lord Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu, in one of His many forms is one of the most important religions of India. The American devotees of ISKCON worship Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Being, the highest Personality of Godhead, whose worship according to the archaeological and epigraphic evidence, is pre-Christian in origin, as found in India's early sacred texts, the Ṛg Veda, Atharva Veda, etc. The detailed history of Kṛṣṇa's incarnation is found in the religious text of the Bhāgavata Purāṇa, and the philosophical basis of the Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement is found in India's most sacred book the Bhagavad-gītā. These sacred texts and others have been translated and commented upon by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda and are being studied today in many major universities across the United States. The particular form of Vaisnavism of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement dates from Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu, one of India's saints born in 1486 A.D. in Nadia, India. His immediate followers organized this philosophy in a number of Sanskrit texts, and His religious practices such as chanting and dancing are most authentically represented in America by the Hare Kṛṣṇa devotees according to this tradition. Lord Caitanya, worshiped as the last incarnation of Kṛṣṇa, initiated a disciplic succession. In the mid-19th century, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura appeared in this spiritual lineage. Soon afterwards, his son Bhaktisiddhānta, Sarasvatī became the spiritual master of India's Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇavas, and his most prominent student was Śrīla Prabhupāda. It was at Bhaktisiddhānta's command that Śrīla Prabhupāda later came to America to bring the teachings and practices of Caitanya to the West. My study of these American devotees, which I have pursued since 1968, was published in my book, Hare Krishna and the Counter-culture, published by John Wiley and Sons in 1974, New York. The sociological data revealed through a detailed questionnaire and many hours of taped interviews, indicates that many of the devotees had been influenced by the hippie culture of the 1960's. However, after they joined the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, their lives became completely changed from a life of drugs, illicit sex, and violence to one of dedication to a spiritual discipline and morality and to helping others in their search for happiness. In this period of rapid social and cultural change..."
Prabhupāda: This is the fact, in many cases. So many drunkards, so many violence... This is... (name witheld)?
Haṁsadūta: (name witheld).
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Somehow or other it is interesting.
Hari-śauri: Yes. It's so full of...
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Otherwise why people take it? When I was... I thought that I am giving my imagination, who will take it? It is my imagination. Of course with reference to the modern politics, sociology, everything. Whenever possible I touch.
Hari-śauri: But your preaching is so practical. These other men when they speak, it just comes out... It's just not practical or they don't know how to translate it into action.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I try to write. I explained in that verse, kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). I've touched all the points in the modern...
Girirāja: It has a very nice purport.
Prabhupāda: Find out that. Kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). Parjanyaḥ...
Pradyumna: Oh, I know.
Prabhupāda: I've touched the slaughterhouse, brothel...
Hari-śauri: I just finished reading that Perfection of Yoga. It's an amazing book. Each chapter gradually leads more and more to the ultimate goal.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Rāmeśvara: Then it says, "Other things need to be done. We have to get supportive comments from professionals and authorities in areas of religion, education, mental health and physical health, law, and sociology. Statements by experts and professionals carry a lot of weight."
Prabhupāda: That is in our side.
Rāmeśvara: "Ask your contact to comment or express his opinion of such things as that this is not a matter of religion; that there is resulting mental and physical harm; the right of self-determination means the right to have a free mind; destruction of the family unit..."
Prabhupāda: So if one has the right to have a free mind, why he cannot chant Hare Kṛṣṇa?
Rāmeśvara: Well, their argument is that we do not allow him to consider alternatives.
Prabhupāda: Then where is the question of a free mind? That means you brainwash.
Rāmeśvara: Exactly.
Prabhupāda: Free mind means everyone has the right. That is free mind. If you force something, then where is the free mind?
Prabhupāda: Let them oppose. You do your duty. Introduce this Vedic culture in your country. It will be... In future they will appreciate. There will be history how Vedic culture was... And the whole nation will be benefited—from material side. And spiritual side there will be..., what to speak of? These literatures, this art, this strength,(?) this philosophy... Everything wonderful. (break)
Rāmeśvara: ...involved in some political activity, we must follow his example.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. There is no doubt about it. We shall follow strictly to politic, economy, sociology, philosophy, religion, art, culture, everything. So we are not only for Hare Kṛṣṇa. Of course, Hare Kṛṣṇa is ultimate. That is..., includes everything. But we should never say that politics is not our field. Why not? Kṛṣṇa took part. Kṛṣṇa instructs everything.
Rāmeśvara: The whole war of Kurukṣetra was just so Kṛṣṇa's devotees...
Prabhupāda: Yes. It was designed by Kṛṣṇa. But the idea was to kill. "Call them all together here and kill them. Bas, finished, all the demons finished." This is Kṛṣṇa. "Instead of killing them separately, call them here and kill. Finished." Like slaughterhouse. It was a slaughterhouse for the demons. "Call them and kill them. Bas, finished." Nimitta-mātraṁ bhava savya-sācin: "It is all my design. Even if you do not fight, they are not going back to their home. They must be killed." This is Kṛṣṇa's plan. "You simply take the credit. That's all. It is all My design. You are My devotee. I want to give you this credit. Otherwise without your help they are already killed." So... Kṛṣṇa... Paritrāṇāya... He has got two business. Paritrāṇāya sādhūnāṁ vināśāya ca duṣkṛtām (BG 4.8). This is another side of His business. (end)
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Hari-śauri: There's one boy we've been preaching to. He's a student in sociology.
Prabhupāda: Let him come. No "logy" before Kṛṣṇa conscious. All "logy" finished.
Rāmeśvara: Hari-śauri, I turned this off. You going to stay here, Hari-śauri? So I should take it out? Leave it?
Hari-śauri: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) You belong to Orissa.
Guest (1): Bhuvaneśvara.
Prabhupāda: Bhuvaneśvara.
Guest (1): Yes.
Prabhupāda: So what is your philosophy?
Guest (1): Sir, we are coming just to have a darśana from you. (Prabhupāda chuckles)
Hari-śauri: This young man here is a student. He's studying for his MA in sociology. He has a few questions.
Prabhupāda: Yes?
Prabhupāda: Rich man, poor man, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, American, Ind..., sab combined. (Hindi) This is really United Nation, our organization. (Hindi) So? What other pictures?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, I have many pictures. I gave a lecture, seminar, just before I came here at the university, about the nature of the Absolute Truth in terms of science and in terms of Bhagavad-gītā, a comparative study of the concept of the Absolute Truth. And there were many professors from physics, chemistry, mathematics, from philosophy, from biology, and from sociology. It was... Balavanta Prabhu was also there, and a few other devotees. It was quite interesting. And there was a slide show.
Prabhupāda: Balavanta was in Manipur?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: No. This is in the United States.
Prabhupāda: United States.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: America. Just before I came. So we made several slides and these, called transparencies. We are going to make all these things as illustrations in our book as well as in the journal. These are some samples that we have.
Prabhupāda: So what these big, big scientists said?
Prabhupāda: To know about Kṛṣṇa. It is not also difficult. Science of Kṛṣṇa is there, Bhagavad-gītā. Kṛṣṇa speaks Himself. So to know the science of Kṛṣṇa is also not difficult. But because we are unfortunate, we go to rascal, and they interpret Bhagavad-gītā in a rascaldom way, and we are missing. So you should be very careful not to go to a rascal. Then your mission will be successful. If you want to purchase gold, you must go to a shop where actually gold is purchased, gold. If you do not know, then you'll be cheated. That is not also very difficult. That I have repeatedly said. Those who are interpreting in their own way, Bhagavad-gītā, he's a rascal; he's not guru. (loud kīrtana in background) As soon as he says an interpretation, "I think like this," you reject that. Why should we think like that? You should preach what Kṛṣṇa says. Then you are right. Why should you say something which Kṛṣṇa does not say? Then you are misguided. He does not know Kṛṣṇa. He's not kṛṣṇa-tattva-vettā. So he's cheating. That is going on. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66), and these rascals say, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa person." So he's a rascal. He's taking Kṛṣṇa's book and preaching against it. So what will be benefit if you go to such a rascal? Therefore there is no difference between śikṣā-guru and dīkṣā-guru because if he's actually guru, he'll not say anything which Kṛṣṇa has not spoken. Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa. So guru is that. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra' ei deśa: (CC Madhya 7.128) "You become a guru." And what is the function of the guru? Yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa. That is there. You haven't got to manufacture any instruction. Whatever is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, you say. You try to convince him with logic, with philosophy, with your knowledge, same thing, not philosophy. That is intelligence. And suppose Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Before that, Kṛṣṇa has described everything, why you should surrender to Kṛṣṇa. At last He says, "You surrender to Me." So there is no difficulty. Immediately Kṛṣṇa does not say, "You surrender to Me." But after describing everything—karma-yoga, jñāna-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, so many things, politics, sociology, religion, everything—at last He says that
Prabhupāda: It means that they do... These communist countries, they work so hard.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: They rise up, 4:30, prepare for going to work. Then work begins at 6:30. Is it not more load than the ass? Still they have to do that, by force.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Says, "I was escorted to the Dean's office. He was also the chairman of the Philosophy and Sociology Institute. He requested both standing orders for the Institute."
Prabhupāda: (laughs) They are getting standing orders, all.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "And he wrote me a note for the librarian. This note influenced the librarian to take not just the standing orders or all of the books, but they have agreed to take every book that we have in each of the different languages also."
Prabhupāda: How intelligent.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Every language, all the books in all languages. "Feeling a little satisfied that this school had been properly inoculated..."—he called it an inoculation—"...I picked up my two bags and ran to the train station."
Prabhupāda: When all these standing orders will be supplied and they read it, we'll get more first order.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "It is no wonder that this transcendental treasure chest of spiritual texts have been described by many scholars as the first presentation of full encyclopedia of Vedic knowledge. This encyclopedia touches various subject matters relating to philosophy, religion, sociology and anthropology, literature and classics, political science, history and psychology. On the back side of this pamphlet an order blank to apply for a full encyclopedia published by the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust is given. Please fill in and return." (chuckles) Here's what he says, "The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust Library of Vedic Knowledge can make a worthwhile gift to a friend of relative or may be kept in one's own home. Or one may contribute a set to a school, college, hospital library, reading room, temple, or for any other charitable purpose. The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust is offering this encyclopedia on an easy installment basis by which one may receive published volumes every month without any extra cost." Sounds like they're getting a lot for free. (chuckles)
Prabhupāda: Organized very nice. Hm. "Gargamoney." (laughter)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Kindly fill in the form below to receive your first volumes." Then it says, "Name and age, date of purchase, address, city, state, country, type of business, phone, number of sets to be purchased." Number of sets to be purchased. It's very hopeful. "Whether encyclopedia is for personal use or other, please explain." 'Cause they're going to keep a file to see what people use it for. "Number of books to be received each year. Amount given as advance." He says, "At least fifty percent of the total cost can be given for the complete set as advance, and balance to be made in yearly installments. Signature of purchaser.
| Page Title: | Sociology (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 17 of Nov, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=34, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 34 |