Guest (1): ...Yes, yes. I ask him why, after such a long lapse of time we could see this trait of Hindu dharma.
Prabhupāda.: Yes. Not Hindu dharma.
Guest (1): Or Vedic dharma.
Prabhupāda: ...but spiritual, satisfaction of spiritual starvation. Because we are spiritual beings. That I was trying to explain. That we have bodily necessities, at the same time we have spiritual necessities. This Western civilization, they are simply after the bodily necessities. Just like here is a qualified medical man. He's made... What for, medical man? He knows how to satisfy the medical necessities of the body. He has no information of the spirit soul. Is it not a fact? Have you got any idea what is spirit soul?
Guest (2) (Indian Doctor): Not from the medical knowledge, certainly not.
Prabhupāda: Therefore I say that these universities, educational institution, all over the world, they are simply concerned with this body. According to our Vedic culture, to remain satisfied with the bodily necessities of life is the business of animals. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13).
- yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke
- sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ
- yat-tīrtha-buddhiḥ salile na karhicij
- janeṣv abhijñeṣu sa eva go-kharaḥ
- (SB 10.84.13)
These are animal conceptions. So anyone who is accepting this body as the self, he is sa eva go-kharaḥ. Go means cows and kharaḥ means asses. So this civilization based on the bodily necessities of life is animal civilization. Because we are not this body, we are spirit soul, as it is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: dehino 'smin dehe. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). The soul is within the body and it is transmigrating from one type of body to another. Even in this life. Just like I was in the baby's body, I was in a child's body, I was in a boy's body. Those bodies are gone. But I remember that I was in such and such bodies. But I am now in a different body. Therefore, although my bodies have changed so many times, I am cognizant, I know that I had such and such body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. To transmigrate from one body to another. This is the authoritative statement of Bhagavad-gītā. There are so many serious students of Bhagavad-gītā. Just like Mahatma Gandhi, his photographs were always with the Bhagavad-gītā, standing. But he was not a leader of understanding what is soul. He was simply concerned with the body. This nationalism is concerning this body. Bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ. Bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ, ijya, ijya means worshipable. On account of this bodily concept of life they have taken that this earth or the place where the body is born, that has become worshipable. That is nationalism. Bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ. Sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu. And from my body there is relationship with my wife, with my children, therefore they are my own men. There are hundreds and thousands of women, but one woman who has got bodily connection, she's my wife. I have to do so many things for her. Similarly children, the bodily connection. The whole material civilization, nationalism, socialism, this ism, that ism, everything based on this bodily concept of life. But one who is in bodily concept of life, he is no better than cows and asses. So in the human form of life, because of the developed consciousness, there is inquiry, what I am. What I am. Am I this body or I'm something else other than this body? This is natural inquiry, and the Vedānta-sūtra begins from this inquiry. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. In the animal concept of life the inquiry is where is my food, where is my shelter, where is my sex, where is my defense. These inquiries. But when one comes to the human form of body, the inquiry should be, at least, that what I am. If I study myself, I think, if I take this finger, am I this finger? The answer will be no. It is my finger. So my eyes, my head, everything "mine." Then where is "I"? Unless this inquiry comes into the living form of life, human form of life, he's not a human being. He's animal because animals never inquire. He's satisfied. A dog is satisfied. He knows that "I am this body." According to the dog's body, he barks. That's all. No more inquiry. Therefore actual human form of life, actual business of human form of life, begins from this inquiry. Brahma-jijñāsā. So this brahma-jijñāsā is being explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, what is Brahman? That is, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So dehī, the owner of the body, is Brahman. Therefore Vedic injunction is, "Just realize what you are." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. So it is not Hindu dharma or Indian dharma. It is natural inquiry of the living being when he's advanced in consciousness. So in the bodily concept of life, material necessities can be fulfilled by money or-eating, sleeping, mating. But because these things do not give satisfaction to the Western people anymore, because they have seen enough of them-eating, sleeping, sex life and defense-natural inquiry is what is Brahman? And that answer can be had from India, nowhere else. Therefore they have got inclination. Whenever they see some Indian swami, Indian person talking about spiritual, they flock. But they cheat. Instead of satisfying them... Now so far our International Society is concerned, we do not cheat. We speak the real truth. Here is God, Kṛṣṇa. Here you are. Your relationship is to serve Him. Do this. So they are doing that. Therefore we see a little success of this movement all over the world.
Guest (1): What is God to a layman, like me.
Prabhupāda: Layman, well, layman means, we already explained, he's no better than animal. Because layman means one who thinks that "I am this body." He's layman. He has no other information. So layman is equal to animal. So layman's education, layman's advancement is decoration of the dead body. If you decorate a dead body, you can feel satisfaction. But others will laugh, that "What a fool he is, he's decorating a dead body?" Bhagavad-bhakti-hīnasya jātiḥ śāstraṁ japas tapaḥ, aprāṇasyeva dehasya maṇḍanaṁ loka-rañjanam. Layman's business is decorating this dead body, that's all.
Guest (1): Yeah, but if you were to explain to him what is God, how would you explain to him.
Prabhupāda: Then, suppose, what you are? What is your business? What do you do? You're teacher, what is the subject matter?
Guest (1): I teach in law.
Prabhupāda: So if one wants to know what is law, he must become a student. It is not that simply asking "What is law, sir?" You can make him understand within a minute or within hour? Is it possible?
Guest (1): No.
Prabhupāda: First of all, you must become graduate, then you should take entrance in the law college, then you must learn. So what is God, that is the inquiry, but it requires training. And that is Vedic dharma, varṇāśrama-dharma. Varṇāśrama-dharma. Varṇāśramācaravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān (CC Madhya 8.58). Anyone who has taken to this system of varṇāśrama-dharma, four varṇas: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra; and four āśrama: brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. Unless one takes to this institutional education, he's no more than an animal. So to know God means he must become a brāhmaṇa, real, qualified brāhmaṇa. Therefore brāhmaṇa is respected. Because, brahma-jānātīti brāhmaṇa. But there is no law. Lawless country. Therefore one is passing as a brāhmaṇa without any knowledge of Brahman. That is the defect. Formerly the government will see... I was explaining this, this morning. That it is the kṣatriya's duty to see that one is passing as a brāhmaṇa, whether he's qualified. Why he should pass? Suppose he says, "I'm medical man." He must be qualified. And if he says, "I am medical man," then he's cheating. So you cannot call yourself a brāhmaṇa unless you are qualified. But that is going on. And this cheating is being accepted. Therefore this varṇāśrama-dharma. Hindu dharma or Vedic dharma means varṇāśrama-dharma. One must first of all accept the principles of varṇas and āśramas. Then there is question of understanding God. God is not so cheap thing, "What is God?" and you understand immediately. You must become first of all brāhmaṇa.