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Shop (Conversations 1969 - 1975)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1969 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation With John Lennon, Yoko Ono, and George Harrison -- September 11, 1969, London, At Tittenhurst:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Mantra, if it is valuable, it is valuable for everybody. Why it should be for a particular person?

John Lennon: If all mantras are... All mantras just the name of God. Whether it's a secret mantra or an open mantra, it's all the name of God. So it doesn't really make much difference, does it, which one you sing?

Prabhupāda: No. Just like in drug shop they sell all medicine for disease, curing disease. But still, you have to take doctor's prescription to take a particular type of medicine. They will not supply you. If you go to a drug shop and you say, "I am diseased. You give me any medicine," that is not... He'll ask you, "Where is your prescription?" So similarly, in this age, in Kali-yuga age, this mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, is recommended in the śāstras, and great stalwart—we consider Him the incarnation of Kṛṣṇa-Caitanya Mahāprabhu, He preached this. Therefore our principle is everyone should follow. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). We should follow the footprints of great authorities. That is our business. The Vedic mantra says, tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ. If you simply try to argue and try to approach the Absolute, it is very difficult, simply by argument and reasoning, because our arguments and reason are limited because our senses are imperfect. (break) So tarko 'pratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnāḥ. And scriptures, there are different kinds of scriptures. Nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. Philosophers, every philosopher has got a different opinion, and unless a philosopher defeats other philosopher, he cannot become a big philosopher. So therefore philosophical speculation also will not make a solution. Dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyām. So it is very secret.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- November 7, 1970, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is to restrict. Just like government opens liquor shop. That does not mean government is encouraging to drink. Those who are drunkard, going create disturbance, for them there is little concession, but they are responsible. If they become drunkard and causes some disturbance in the street, then he will be arrested by the police. He cannot say, "Oh, I have paid for the bottle." (Hindi) The bhakti is all-inclusive. (Explains Brahman, Paramātmā, Bhagavān in Hindi) Brahmā-jñāna means, just like sunlight. You understand sunlight. That does not mean that you know sun disc. But both of them are light.

Guest (9): The Brahma-jñāna has got a limited jurisdiction.

Prabhupāda: It is these things that... This is the... just like ordinary...(Hindi) Yasya prabhā prabhavato jagad-aṇḍa-koṭi-koṭiṣv aśeṣa-vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam tad brahma niṣkalam anantam aśeṣa bhūtaṁ... (Bs. 5.40). (Hindi)

Guest (9): Different stages? Are there different stages?

Prabhupāda: Different features. Just like Sūryaloka or Sūryadeva or Sūrya-raśmi. (Hindi)

Guest (9): I see.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Different stages. (Hindi)

Room Conversation -- December 12, 1970, Indore:

Prabhupāda: Self-preservation. So self-preservation... They do not know what is self-preservation. That is another ignorance. They consider this body as the self. Their self-preservation means to keep this body. And that is also not possible. If you do not follow regulative principles, it is not possible to keep your body in good condition. That is also not possible. Those who do not follow the regulative principles, mostly they are diseased, some kind. We find in the medical, modern medical shop the customers are educated people. Mass of people, they are not customers in the medical shop. You'll find it. They are not so much diseased. In every gentleman's house, modern, you'll find so many bottles of medicine. But you won't find such medical bottles in any house of less educated persons. They are not so diseased. So this is one of the items. If you want to advance in spiritual life you must follow the regulative principles to rectify your mistakes in the past life and this present life. Without being freed from all contamination nobody can understand God. That is not possible. Bhagavad-gītā says, yeṣāṁ anta gataṁ pāpaṁ: "One who has become completely freed from all kinds of sinful reaction," yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām, "Persons who are engaged in pious activities only," te, "such person," te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā... (BG 7.28). This life, the material life, is dvandva. Dvandva means fighting or quarreling. Every one of us has got nature for fighting with others unnecessarily. Even some people come here with a spirit of fighting with me. So this is called dvandva and moha. How this fighting spirit becomes developed? On account of illusion. What is that illusion? Accepting this body as self. So if one is contaminated by sinful activity—if he is in illusion, how he can..., illusion of accepting this body as self—what is the meaning of their self-realization? He's illusioned. He'll keep himself in all kinds of contaminated life, and artificially he thinks that by some kind of mystic meditation he'll be all right. This is going on. No. One must follow.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1971, Gorakhpur:

Prabhupāda: Yes, spinning. Because he was spinning daily. Just like you are chanting sixteen rounds, he was spinning sixteen rounds. (laughter) And he said frankly, "Are you spinning charka?" They said, "No sir." "Oh, then I am not going there. My god is charka." That is practical. We have got experience. And actually he was refusing. Just like we are insisting, "You must chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra sixteen rounds," he was... There were so many charkas daily selling. People took it very seriously. We also took charka and that, what is called?

Devotee: Handloom.

Prabhupāda: Handloom. And there was very good business. So many charkas and that handloom was sold in the shops because everyone was purchasing and purchasing. And they were stacked and thrown away some time after. So... Because Mahatma Gandhi asked, everyone did. You see? So he also asked our maṭha people that "Are you spinning a charka?" They said, "No, sir." "Then I am not going." He refused the invitation. Does it mean he surrendered to Kṛṣṇa? He surrendered to charka. That's all. (laughter) And if you say, "Charka is also Kṛṣṇa," oh, there will be no more argument. (laughter)

Guest: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Avatāra means avatāran. (Hindi) What is the meaning of descent? What is the meaning of descent? Coming down. Coming down. Yes.

Guest: In the sense of quality or in the sense of form.

Prabhupāda: The sense of form. Because your brain is congested with impersonalism, you cannot understand what is spiritual form. That is your defect.

Guest: That is the trouble.

Conversation with Prof. Kotovsky -- June 22, 1971, Moscow:

Guest: But I mean to say one thing is, like in Vedas, whatever is written could have been proved like in a scientific way, today... Suppose there is a lab which is scientific. Whatever is said by that lab, that "This is truth," accepted without going to argue into the propriety of it... Suppose you have a scientific knowledge shop or a place, and if this workshop or this scientific institution states, "This is not good. This is not good," a general body accepts, take it for granted, "Yes, scientific body has said so. It is understood. It's..."

Prof. Kotovsky: Hm. Yes.

Prabhupāda: Personally he hasn't got to examine, himself. He takes the statement of an authority and believes him.

Guest: Common person, a common man.

Prabhupāda: So Vedic authorities, authoritative statement, are accepted by the ācāryas. Just like India is governed by the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, and Śaṅkarācārya. They accept in that, and the followers accept them. The benefit is that whether cow dung is pure or impure, I do not waste my time, but because it is stated in the Vedas, I take it, so I save my time. Śruti-pramāṇa. In that way there are different statements in the Vedas for sociology and politics and anything because Vedas means knowledge. Vedas means knowledge. Vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyam (BG 15.15). Vetti veda vido jñāne. Vid-dhātu, when it is used for knowledge, it is called Veda.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: The Vedic principle is that one should avoid sex life altogether. The whole Vedic principle is to get liberation from this material bondage. And there are different attachments for this material enjoyment, out of which sex life is the source of topmost enjoyment. The Bhāgavata says that this material world... Puṁsaḥ striyā mithunī-bhāvam etam (SB 5.5.8). Means that a man is attached to woman and woman is attached to man. Not only human society, in animal society also. That attachment is the basic principle of material life. So, a woman is hankering or seeking after the association of a man, and a man is hankering or seeking the association of a woman. Just like we see the, all the fictions, novels, dramas, this cinema, or even ordinary advertisement, simply they depict the attachment between man and woman. Even in tailor's shop you'll find on the window some woman, some man. (break) So this attachment is already there.

Bob: The attachment between man and woman.

Prabhupāda: Man and woman. So if you want to get liberation from this material world, then that attachment should be reduced to nil. Otherwise, simply for that attachment, you'll have to take birth and rebirth, either as human being or as demigod or as an animal, as a serpent, as a bird, as a beast. You have to take birth. So this basic principle of attachment, increasing, is not our business. It is decreasing. Pravṛttir eṣā bhūtānāṁ nivṛttis tu mahā-phalam. This is the general tendency, but if one can reduce and stop it, that is first class. Therefore our Vedic system is that first of all a boy is trained as a brahmacārī, no sex life. Brahmacārī. He goes to the teacher's home. (pause—a devotee chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa over loudspeaker is very loud.) Who is this? Stop it. (break) The whole principle is, Vedic principle is, to reduce it, not to increase it. Therefore the whole system is varṇāśrama-dharma. Our, the Indian system is called varṇa and āśrama, four spiritual orders and four social orders. The social order is brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, and sannyāsa. Uh, this is spiritual order. And social order is brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, and śūdra. So under this system the regulative principles are so nice that even one has got the tendency for enjoy material life, he is so nicely molded that at last he gets liberation and goes back to home, back to Godhead. This is the process. So sex life is not required on principle, but because we are attached to that, therefore there are some regulative principles. Sex life...

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Up to evening.

Acyutānanda: Until the moon comes. Then we take ekādaśī or feast?

Prabhupāda: You can feast. Feast.

Acyutānanda: So we'll fast up until the rising of the moon and then take feast, full prasādam. (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes it happens that one day out of the week all the shops close except for one. I've experienced in India that all the... (break)

Bob: ...the people coming and jumping on each other trying to get, afraid that the prasādam would finish before they got served.

Prabhupāda: No, assure them that we can... "Don't be jumping. We shall supply you." What can be done? (break) ...the place where we shall perform sacrifice, fire sacrifice, the tablet should be taken there and we shall worship. And then we place it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We'll carry the tablet.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: To the sacrifice place.

Prabhupāda: We shall place the in... what is called, paraphernalia? And then begin. So ten feet deep and six feet wide. So you have ordered for bricks and cement? (loudspeaker in background very loud)

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That is forced austerity; that is not good. Voluntary austerity will help.

Śyāmasundara: (indistinct) ...if you don't undergo voluntary austerity, you must be forced to undergo...

Prabhupāda: Yes. (pause) That is the difference between man and animal. Animal cannot accept austerity. But man can accept austerity. That is the difference between. Just like there is a nice foodstuff in a confectioner's shop. So a man wants to eat it, but he sees that he has no money. So he can restrain. But an animal, cow comes, immediately he pushes his mouth in that. You can beat him with stick, it will tolerate, but it will do that. Therefore, animal cannot undergo austerity. (Someone else speaks inaudibly about volume of loudspeakers) Yes, yes, reduce. (break) Our austerity is very nice. We chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, dance, and Kṛṣṇa sends nice foodstuff, we eat. That's all. Why your people are not agreeable to such kind of austerities? Chanting, dancing, and eating nicely? (indistinct) I see austerity, call my mother.

Bob: What is that?

Prabhupāda: Suppose we have this nice foodstuff this mother has brought. So those who are not following austerities, they cannot expect. But because we are following austerity, Kṛṣṇa sends us nice thing. So we are not loser. When you become Kṛṣṇized, then you'll get more comfort than at the present moment. That's a fact. I am living alone for the last twenty years, but I have no difficulty. When, before taking sannyāsa, I was living in Delhi, these boys were taking care of me. Yes. So I had no difficulty, although I was living alone.

Devotee: If you don't accept a spiritual discipline, then nature forces so many...

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1972, Sydney:

Devotee (2): In the shop. You have to get it from the shop.

Prabhupāda: But I don't think you can get now.

Devotee (1): We could try.

Śyāmasundara: Any stores open?

Devotee (1): I'll go see.

Śyāmasundara: That supermarket?

Devotee (2): It's Easter Sunday.

Devotee (1): There's a little shop, they always carry puffed rice.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Śyāmasundara: Puffed rice in the box.

Prabhupāda: You have got peanuts?

Devotee (2): Yes. Peanuts, milk.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee (2): Peanuts and milk?

Prabhupāda: No, puffed rice and peanuts, and milk separate. (laughter)

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: Or you can take one my cloth and change.

Devotee (1): There's a cotton piece. I have one cotton cloth.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. So you got puffed rice?

Devotee (1): No, Śrīla Prabhupāda. I could not get.

Prabhupāda: Puffed rice is difficult to obtain. In India, puffed rice is very easily available.

Śyāmasundara: He says that here they close the stores and the shops. All the time the shops are closed around here.

Prabhupāda: All the time? Why?

Devotee (2): For holidays.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Devotee (2): A holiday will come, everything closes down. Four days, five days at a time. Banks, post offices.

Śyāmasundara: Not even a post office open.

Prabhupāda: Accha?

Śyāmasundara: Even tomorrow nothing's open.

Devotee (2): It's really incredible. It's really a disturbance.

Prabhupāda: What kind of government it is?

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: Because the Indians are coming.

Sumati Morarjee: Yes, they'll (indistinct) all the property.

Prabhupāda: (laughter)

Sumati Morarjee: And started taking all the shops. All the cinema theatres.

Prabhupāda: And London is practically no Indian.

Sumati Morarjee: I always say that I see more Indians in London than (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: (Hindi exchanges)

Sumati Morarjee: Oh, so much prasāda.

Devotee: Oh, we have prepared just a little for you.

Sumati Morarjee: All right. I'll say you can send it back, because the children are at home.

Prabhupāda: All right, all right, all right.

Sumati Morarjee: I'll take, send you back your results. Did he give you (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: So he'll give you some paper, you'll wrap it.

Devotee: Here's a bag...

Conversation with Bajaj and Bhusan -- September 11, 1972, Arlington, Texas, At Their Home:

Prabhupāda: Because he sells, I mean to say, confectionery made of pure ghee you'll find always hundreds of customers waiting. And there are many dalda ghee shop not so crowded. Some cheap men are going there. So anything you present pure, there will be automatic customer. And that is being proved. We are presenting Kṛṣṇa as He is, and He is being accepted everywhere, all over the world. But as soon as you make adulteration Kṛṣṇa, manufacture your concoction—"Kṛṣṇa means this, Kurukṣetra means this," all nonsense talk—immediately lost. Why should we do that, adulteration? There is no business adulterating. So many scholars, so many swamis, they have simply presented adulterated. Just like even Mahatma Gandhi says, "The Kurukṣetra means this body." And where he got this meaning? Where is the dictionary meaning? You should speak something which must be authorized. Where is the dictionary where Kurukṣetra is explained as this body? And Kurukṣetra station is still existing. People are going to Kurukṣetra for religious performances. Kuru-kṣetre dharma-kṣetre. Why should I interpret Kurukṣetra, "the body"? This is going on. So that will not be effective. It may be effective, a few person, somebody's admirer. But it will not go far above that. But if you present as it is, it will be accepted by any real inquirer.

Guest (2): Gītā Press, Gorakhpur, has those publications. I have one of them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Gītā Press has got different versions also.

Room Conversation -- October 25, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: And I was in month of June, still in the morning the wind was so cold. And there is double glass in every window, double glass. Just like aeroplane, double. And at half past eleven in the month of June, when in your country it is half past eleven o'clock, that is evening. And at half past three o'clock, morning. And still the little night, that is just like dusk; it is not completely dark. And laborer class... (speaks to someone in Hindi) Keep it open. (break) (indistinct) Every corner of the street, Lenin's picture. All books are sold, they are Lenin. No other literature. You cannot get taxi. Poor men, they cannot pay for taxi. Very little number. When I was talking with Professor Kotovsky, so I asked him, "Now we shall go. Get me taxi." So he, "Yes, it is Moscow." So he got down, he personally showed me, "Instead of taking taxi waiting, please go in this way when you go to your hotel." He showed me shortcut. People are walking, and they are running for the bus. It is not at all a rich country. A poor country. And if you see the shops, you will find old (indistinct), just like antique shop. Because you cannot purchase generally, everything you have to purchase from government store, and in queue. It is botheration. And actually in India it is going to happen like this. Everything you have to purchase in queue. Here?

Indian man: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: So you have to waste so much time.

Gurudāsa: Milk you have to purchase in queue.

Prabhupāda: Everything.

Room Conversation -- October 25, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Ravan?

Pañca-draviḍa: Rava or something, a particular notation on the calendar, it corresponds to March or April, r—a something. I don't know the exact period of time, but by March, the government says they will completely..., they want to completely take over the control of wheat by this time. They have already taken over the control of atta and flour and now suji. They want to take over the control of wheat and the control of sugar completely. So all these things we are seeing is what they are doing, they are taking over control, they are rationing the items, but in the ration shop you can get 800 grams of the product and then you have to go out onto the market and buy at outrageous prices, because nobody can feed a family on 800 grams of sugar a month. It's very little for five people. The price of sugar has gone up over a rupee and a half since the government took over.

Prabhupāda: Ration means black market. (break)

Devotee (3): ...especially in Bengal. (break) You come to Calcutta, we will keep you forever.

Pañca-draviḍa: But in Bombay we'll make better arrangements.

Prabhupāda: We have published one brochure. (break)

Pañca-draviḍa: ...nicely in the Kṛṣṇa book about the sacrifices of Vasudeva. Where Lord Kṛṣṇa speaks and says to the assembled sages and ascetics that "Seeing you is the perfection of these eyes and perfection of life," and that "Those persons who go to the holy places only to take bath there or to see the Deities in the temple, they are no better than animals like the ass." I've been thinking that how you have presented this ISKCON movement as an assembly of devotees all over the world so they don't even have to go to the holy places. Simply by walking into one of your temples is like walking into Vṛndāvana and having the association of these great ascetics and sages, because your teachings are (indistinct). (break)

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: this road is very nice. (indistinct) What is meaning of toko?

Devotee (1): Toko means store, shop.

Devotee (2): If they say bookstore, they say toko booko.

Prabhupāda: Toko simara? Toko simara?

Devotee (1): Maybe that's one particular store. Usually they say what type of store. Toko sapater means shoe store.

Prabhupāda: Sapato?

Devotee (1): Sapatu.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Sapato.

Devotee (1): Toko bunga means flower store. They usually have the category. (pause)

Prabhupāda: These are wholesale merchants?

Devotee (1): It appears to be. Yes.

Prabhupāda: It is just like Indian market.

Morning Walk -- March 1, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: And that is the Christian propaganda.

Devotee (1): Same in Madras.

Prabhupāda: In India, everywhere. They cannot attract people by their philosophy. It is show money, "Yes, come on, take money." (pause) Hong Kong also. (break) Very, many meat shops. Rather this vegetable,...

Devotee (1): It's expensive.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Devotee (1): It costs a lot of money. Meat is more expensive to eat. Actually, most people, mostly they eat vegetables because it is available. But there's much fish. There's much fish and they carry around in the streets everywhere.

Devotee (2): In the Eastern countries usually people eat little bits of meat but they're vegetable. It's only in the West that they eat steak. But in every restaurant, they all have meat, much chicken also. They raise chickens. (pause)

Devotee (1): Tomorrow morning we have asked some Indian community leaders to come about 7 o'clock, because they want to be requested by you to do something to help make a temple or what you like. But they... Apparently they feel unhappy because we have not met with the leaders and asked them to help.

Prabhupāda: Why should I put the question? They should first of all. They should come forward.

Room Conversations with Sannyasis -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Management means everything is in order, otherwise what is the illusion of (indistinct).

Śyāmasundara: If there's no manager, then a sannyāsī should step forward.

Pañcadraviḍa: Sometimes though it's hard to maintain this routine. You yourself told the devotees not to go out and purchase excessive amounts of sweets but that didn't check them. They're still in the sweet shops continually. This morning I woke a,...

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Pañcadraviḍa: I went to wake a devotee up, I woke him up at a quarter to four. I said "Prabhu, you want to get up now, it's four o'clock, time to wake." So he didn't wake but I, I went ahead and bathed because I wanted to do that, and then I come back and it was almost time for ārati. So I said, "If you are not going to bathe at least get out of bed and come to āratik. But he wouldn't even do that much. So what can you do under these conditions when you tell somebody, you can't physically twist their arm.

Śyāmasundara: But the whole idea is that if you create a spiritual atmosphere that's so enlivening that everyone will want to participate in it, that's the solution. You can't individually treat each person. You have to get the whole thing generated by, by pouring water on the root.

Room Conversations with Sannyasis -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana:

Pañcadraviḍa: In your lectures you emphasized two aspects must be there, jñāna and renunciation. So some knowledge is there, but that part of the difficulty is that with most of the devotees in every temple in India, is that they have not renounced these dirty things completely. They still are attached to sense gratification even on gross levels. So whether a sannyāsī or anybody interferes with their sense gratification, they tend to not oblige because they are attached to doing things the way they want. And they think because they are in a foreign country here, a long way from America where the standards are very rigid, that they can do any manner of nonsense and nobody will check them. And if you try to correct them, then they will only do it behind your back. We have seen this, with the sweet shops, with rising early, anything that interferes with them doing as, exactly as they please, they don't want to oblige. And this is in Calcutta, this is in Bombay, and it's happening here in Vṛndāvana. It's not something that's isolated here to the palace, but the devotees all over, they are just behaving on the level of sense gratification, and that's why there is so much rajas guṇa in the temples. So much rajas guṇa.

Prabhupāda: This is a fact. So how to correct it. If you do not correct yourself, how you can correct?

Pañcadraviḍa: Well we, many of us have tried to correct ourself, and as a result we have been accused of being separatist, simply because we don't want to go along with the nonsense that everybody else is doing, but we want to maintain some standard for ourself, of reading and chanting. Because we don't want to sit down and talk nonsense or do nonsense, and if you try to stop them they will not stop. So why we should fall down to that level? So we behave as separatist. We go into our room and we'll read, or we'll go into our room and chant, or we'll try and keep ourself clean, or try and do these things, and that is separatism because it's not falling into the level of māyā that's going on everywhere else in the temple, engaging in party politics and all these other things. That is, that is what I feel about it. Most of the devotees, they seem out of place.

Room Conversation -- March 17, 1973, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: So 1928 there was a Kumbha-melā, I think. And during that Kumbha-melā, Tīrtha Mahārāja with a party came to my shop, Prayāg pharmacy, all of a sudden, and I thought, "Oh, these are the people I saw, Gauḍīya Maṭha. Yes." So, I was so glad. So Tīrtha Mahārāja asked me that "We are come new here. We are going to establish a temple in Allahabad. We have heard your name, so we have come to you. Please help us." "Yes, I will help you." So in this way I contributed, my attending physician contributed, and some other friends. In this way we became friends, and Tīrtha Mahārāja, old Tīrtha Mahārāja had first meeting in my house at Allahabad, with I think the Sarvesvara brahmacārī and Dhīra Kṛṣṇa brahmacārī...

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: (indistinct) Mahārāja and (indistinct) Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. So, my father was Vaiṣṇava, but when I invited these Gauḍīya Maṭha sādhus, my father thought that I have invited some sādhus of the Ramakrishna Mission. So he was not very interested. When Tīrtha Mahārāja is speaking, I call my... My father was that time invalid, I called him that "Please come down, there is a meeting of the Gauḍīya Maṭha sādhus." So, he could not resist my request, he came down, but he did not think that some devotees have come. They thought, these Ramakrishna Mission rascals have come. (laughter) So he was not very happy, but I told, he was sitting. He, so the meeting he just criticized. Then when he heard the speech of our old Tīrtha Mahārāja, our old Godbrother, he understood, "Oh, they are Vaiṣṇavas." Then immediately after the meeting, he came down on his feet. "I misunderstood you sir, that you are the Ramakrishna Mission sādhu. I am so glad to meet you. So that is the beginning of my intimate relationship with Gauḍīya Maṭha. And they are coming, and whenever somebody would come, I would invite them to lecture in my house. In that way Śrīdhara Mahārāja, at that time Rāmendra Sundara Bhaṭṭācārya, he was also invited at my house, and before (indistinct)... No, I think I invited Bhāratī Mahārāja, and you were with Bhāratī Mahārāja.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (pause) They would not allow anyone to enter India to make trade. And that is the cause of two big world wars. This is a... Real cause is India. Because the Germans, they were very intelligent. They were intelligent nation. They wanted to trade with India. So Britishers will not allow them. Actually, Britishers were selling goods, purchasing from Germany and Japan, And when German would go to trade, they will enhance the custom duty very, very large amount. So that was the grudge of the German nation. Two times, they fought with that "Finish these Britishers-shop-keeper's nation." Yes. Hitler, Hitler was... Hitler or the Emperor Wilhelm, some of them, one of them, was calling the Britishers: "shop-keeper's nation."

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Shop-keeper's nail?

Prabhupāda: Shop-keeper's nation.

Brahmānanda: A nation of shop-keepers only.

Prabhupāda: That's right. Why the shop-keeper's nation should predominate all over the world? Kill them. That is their (indistinct). And actually it is the German people who killed Britishers, British lion. Apart, after the Second War...

Brahmānanda: British was finished.

Morning Walk -- April 29, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: I, I, I am traveling all over the world. My opinion is that, materially, America is happy. And spiritually some portion of India is happy. Otherwise, there is no happiness all over the world. And material happiness is illusion. That is not happiness. Because it will break at any time. Therefore that is not happiness. And spiritual happiness is real happiness. So in Russia, there is neither material nor spiritual. So they are unhappy in all respects. I asked Professor Kotovsky to call for a taxi. So he said: "Well, it is Moscow. Very difficult to get taxi." So he came down himself, he showed us this way: "Please go in this way, in this way, and you get (to) your hotel." He's a big man. He knows that taxi will not be available. And there are few taxis only, show. I did not see any store very neat and clean, well-decorated. Not a single. All old with dust. As if antique shop. The antique shop, just like in your country. I was daily having my morning walk in the Red Square. The most dangerous square...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: What square?

Prabhupāda: Red Square. Yes. I think you have got my picture.

Karandhara: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Never use this china clay. Never. No respectable gentleman will use china clay. Still. So if a poor family is in need of money, immediately he can take one Benarsee sari, or some metal utensils to the pawn maker. He'll immediately offer some money. "Yes." So these are conveniences. Investment was in gold ornaments. Still we have seen that so many jewelry shop, silver dishes shop, ornament shop. Still. Every marriage, the father must give at least fifty tolās. I was not a rich man. Still I had to give to my daughter fifty tolās of gold during marriage. Fifty tolās. Two and a half tolās makes one ounce. So what is the value of fifty tolās?

Karandhara: Twenty-five ounces? Right now that's worth about two thousand, three hundred dollars.

Prabhupāda: Just see. So that is her stock. Strī-dhana. The husband cannot touch. Then it is criminal. So in case of need, she can convert the ornaments into money. Sometimes there is disagreement with the husband. So she has got some stock. The father gives some ornaments. The father-in-law gives some ornament. The relatives also, during marriage, they present some ornaments. So if he, if she gets hundred tolās of gold, that means at least five hundred...?

Karandhara: Almost five thousand.

Room Conversation -- November 1, 1973, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: Very nice.

Śrutakīrti: Yamunā has... She has...

Prabhupāda: Where is Yamunā?

Śrutakīrti: I guess she is out shopping also.

Prabhupāda: Sarvatra vyasanad apy atra... (?) Now here, as soon as we came, we thought it very nice, and immediately...

Śrutakīrti: So many things.

Prabhupāda: So many inconveniences. (laughter) Vyasanad apy atra. Wherever you go, even though you found it is very convenient, very nice, you must know there is, there is inconvenience. Don't be so sure that it is full of nice things. No. That is not possible. Sarvatra vyasanad api. What is that?

Śrutakīrti: Fifteen minutes of water.

Prabhupāda: Oh... So you, you can get that connection disconnected now. Otherwise you're going...

Śrutakīrti: Yes. I could also connect over to here.

Prabhupāda: Yes. For the time being, you disconnect. Otherwise it will fall down.

Śrutakīrti: Yes.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because they have become imperfect, therefore they are blaming God. "God is good;" they forget this. That is their imperfectness. One side, they say, "God is good." Still, they're blaming God. What is this nonsense? If He's God, God is good, how can you blame Him? God is good; in all circumstances, He's good. That is the meaning of good. Good does not mean that one time you are good and next time you are bad.

Karandhara: Just like the criminals blame the government for being in the prison house.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes, that is natural. Yes. Surāśū-sākṣimat. Surāśū-sākṣimat. In the liquor shop so there was some trouble. So he went to court. He went to court. So the court asked him, "Where is your witness?" So he brought one witness, drunkard. You see? Surāśū-sākṣimat. So that is māyā, ahaṁ mameti (SB 5.5.8), misusing power and blaming God, "Why God...?" God has made everything. Just like here. It is made not to move. Stay. But we are better than this. Is it not? It cannot move. So God has made this also. But because we can move, we are better than this. And if, if, if they say that "God, why he has made me to commit mistake?" This rascal does not understand that that is freedom. You, why don't you take the right one? God says, "This is right." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Why don't you take it? And still, how you can say God is bad? What is the argument?

Umāpati: Well, the argument is that if God is so all-powerful, why does He even let me fall?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Umāpati: If God is so powerful, why does He let me fall. Why doesn't He save me, save me from my own foolishness. Why doesn't He...?

Prabhupāda: Yes, He's saving you, but you don't carry His order.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, these are, these are prohibited in Muhammadan villages.

Karandhara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But still it is good. To some extent, he's advanced.

Karandhara: He doesn't allow any liquor shops or tobacco shops in this country.

Prabhupāda: Yeah, that's good.

Karandhara: Khadafi.

Hṛdayānanda: Which country is it?

Prabhupāda: All these things are sinful. To drink is sinful. Even among the Muhammadans. To smoke, sinful. They have got austerities. Their animal-killing is once in a year. (Hindi) Only animals should be sacrificed in worship. There are so many things. Every religion there is good thing, but then nobody follows. Simply defined, "I'm Christian," "I'm Muhammadan," "I am Hindu..." That's all. He's neither of them. He's simply animal. He's simply animal. Just like these rascal Christian. The first proposition is "Thou shalt not kill," and see they're simply killing, and they're claiming "Christians." Just see. All rascals, and they're claiming, "We're follower of Christian." (break) ...propaganda is to teach all these rascals. Therefore we say general rascals. It may be very strong... That professor was referring, "Yes, everyone is rascal." You know that professor?

Karandhara: Yes. He thought "rascals" was a bit harsh.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 11, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Then Brahmānanda give me assurance. "I can take charge." Therefore I signed. But factually, he was as good as Madhudviṣa. (laughs) He made a contract with a, that camp, forty thousand rupees. I settled up for ten thousand rupees. So our work is going on in India and money's spent. Fifty percent is spoiled by this American brain. What can be done? There is no... They'll loot. They cheat. Like anything. Just like this camp. It was, it was Brahmānanda and Madhudviṣa combined together made a contract-forty thousand rupees. Then I said that "Then I am not going to pay you. You go." In Kumbha Melā also, the contract was ten thousand. So five thousand already paid. So I said, "I have no money. You have to become satisfied with the ten thousand." So they began some trouble, but after all, accepted. Because they make five hundred percent profit.

Gurukṛpā: As soon as they see American, it becomes twice as much.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Twice not. Five hundred times. (laughter) As soon as they face: "They're Americans. They have got money."

Gurukṛpā: Same thing in market. When they go shopping and...

Prabhupāda: Yes. "Damn cheap." "Damn cheap, bābu." I have told this story, "Damn cheap, bābu"? Eh?

Gurukṛpā: No. (end)

Morning Walk -- January 19, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. (japa) (break) ...say, "Give me Kṛṣṇa Book." They say like that? Eh?

Devotee (1): Last night a boy came up and asked, "How much are those books?" and he wanted to purchase one. It was very nice.

Devotee (2): Prabhupāda, one time we went to a shopping center and I was walking down the sidewalk and a boy came running up to me and he said, "Is that Volume Two?" And he said, "Can I have Volume Two?" He said, "I've almost finished Volume One, and I was in so much anxiety that I was going to not have anything else to read, because they're so beautiful." And he said that he works in a candy store, and he has so much anxiety all day from all the people that just give him problems and he doesn't like the work and he doesn't like the people. But he says that lunch time he goes and every day he reads the Kṛṣṇa Book and he says he comes back feeling so high. (break)

Praghoṣa: ...so he came up and he asked me to look into, if I could show him the Kṛṣṇa Book for a second. And he had two friends with him and he said, "Here I would like to show you boys something," and he said, "Do you mind?" And I said, "No." So I handed him the Volume One and he opened it up to that picture of Kṛṣṇa with Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī playing His flute, and he showed the boy and he said, "Look, isn't He beautiful?" Just like that, and they both looked at Kṛṣṇa and said, "Wow," just like that. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Yes, the very picture is attractive, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa. (japa) (break)

Room Conversation -- February 13, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Manage, when I got only two-hundred dollars in hand, at that time immediately I rented a storefront.

Dr. Kapoor: Eh?

Prabhupāda: Storefront.

Dr. Kapoor: Huh.

Prabhupāda: A shop.

Dr. Kapoor: Oh.

Prabhupāda: It was hundred and twenty-five dollars. And I got opportunity, also, the same building, one small apartment, seventy-two dollars, or seventy dollars, no seventy-five, seventy-five. In this way, two-hundred dollars per month. So I had only two-hundred dollars, I immediately advanced and took the risk of two-hundred dollars.

Devotee: That was a year after you went.

Prabhupāda: Yes. In 1966. I went there in 1965. So, then...

Dr. Kapoor: No, but from '65-'66 how did you manage? You didn't have any money with you.

Prabhupāda: Managed by selling my books.

Dr. Kapoor: Oh.

Prabhupāda: Bhāgavatam.

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They are now introducing. Now, when it is introduced, they'll be accustomed. They'll drink day and night. Don't bother.

Dr. Patel: I have not got that experience. When I was a student in London, in London University, the boys there, they drink but not that much as they drink here. They are abusing it.

Prabhupāda: Every, every few steps there is a wine shop.

Dr. Patel: Now, every few steps, now you can have that in your own home. Here. You give the minister ten thousand rupees of bribes for a license to... (break) ...have in your home. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...these four things which we are prohibiting: illicit sex...

Dr. Patel: And drinking, meat-eating.

Prabhupāda: Yes, intoxication, meat-eating and gambling. So these four things are encouraged by the government. Gambling, that, what is that? Lottery.

Devotees: Lottery.

Prabhupāda: And meat-eating: beef shop.

Girirāja: Masko(?).

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Girirāja: The government has big distribution...

Morning Walk -- March 27, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...people everywhere good.

Dr. Patel: But the Russians are really good.

Prabhupāda: Only the... People everywhere, all over the world, they are all good. Only the leaders make them bad. That's all. That is my opinion. Misleaders. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tat tad evetaro janaḥ (BG 3.21). The so-called śreṣṭha, leaders, they... Just like in India. When Gandhi was there it was prohibition, and now there is wine shop every step. It is due to the leaders. People, people, what the innocent people, what they'll do?

Dr. Patel: You are talking of this, but I am the knower of the private character of so many businessman.

Prabhupāda: Why you know? Everyone knows.

Dr. Patel: They have got so many women outside, and some of them want every day new one. All sorts of rascals they are. (break) Raja should rule, and not these...

Prabhupāda: Asaṁskṛtāḥ kriyā-hīnāḥ.

Dr. Patel: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Everyone, all people, not only the ministers.

Dr. Patel: But yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tat tad itaro janaḥ (BG 3.21).

Morning Walk -- March 29, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no, that is all right. My point is that something is meant for the śūdras.

Dr. Patel: No that's right, but he has not condemned the yajña, he has made the injunction that you must not take part...

Prabhupāda: That's right... Just like in a drug shop, there are... (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. There are many kinds of drugs. So something is not meant for a certain patient. But he cannot say, "I don't like this drug."

Dr. Patel: Right. (Sanskrit)

Prabhupāda: That is also drug...

Dr. Patel: Right.

Prabhupāda: For certain persons, for a certain patient.

Dr. Patel: (Sanskrit)

Prabhupāda: But maybe it was being done by somebody.

Indian man (3): They must be... In those days... Those were the departurous(?) days when he was born.

Prabhupāda: This thing is being done, I know, in a big temple in Mathurā. When there is big crowd, they put off the electric, and the rascal goes within the woman. I know that. In Vārāṇasī also, in Viśvanātha Temple. They do like this.

Indian man (4): I know, I have seen. That is why this injunction... So now you are satisfied that these injunctions are right.

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. It doesn't matter whether a brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, or vaiśya, śūdra. If you are conscious that "I have to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead according to my capacity of work," then he'll not fall down. He'll not fall down. (break) ...fall down from the position, then it is dead society. It is not living society. At the present moment. Yes. If you don't find actual brāhmaṇa, don't find actual kṣatriya, don't find actual vaiśya, so all śūdras. And there is no guide. Therefore chaotic condition. (break) ...ship without rudder? What is called? Yes. They do not know what is the aim of life. Ask any leader. The leader, he says, "No, this aim of life is to drink and enjoy. That's all." This is going on. After diplomacy, politics, when they are tired, they go to the hotel or club and enjoy and drink. That's all. This is their aim of life. (break) ...countries there are even shops, they indulge all these things, topless, bottomless, like that. Because that is the only solace to this materialistic life. There is no other. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham (SB 7.9.45). That is their... They have no other pleasure except that sex life. They have no information that there is another pleasure. That, they, they are not educated. So they must come to the sex life only.

Dr. Patel: I think this has become very wild after the Second World War.

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes. Tapo divyaṁ putrakāḥ (SB 5.5.1).

Dr. Patel: Eighty-one sons. Eighty-one sons.

Prabhupāda: Jaya. It is... Human life is meant for tapasya, but where is tapasya? They are simply teaching, "Yes, here is contraceptive method. Take." No,... Wine shop...

Dr. Patel: They give it free of charge in the...

Prabhupāda: Yes. So there is no question of tapasya now. Therefore the whole population is pigs, hogs and dogs. How you can expect peace and prosperity in this society? That is not possible. It is a society of pigs and hogs. Śva-viḍ... Śva-viḍ-varāha uṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ. If somebody says, "If the..., it is a society of pigs and hogs, then what about these leaders?"

Dr. Patel: They are bigger hogs and pigs.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's all. That is stated: śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). He's also a big paśuḥ. That's all. Otherwise how he can dare to see that "Bhajan is nuisance"? Because it is paśuḥ. He's not even a human being. Otherwise how he dares say like that? (break) ...reply that dacoit. If I reply, then I have to call him, "You are a paśuḥ."

Dr. Patel: And he told me...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...come for treatment. Why shall I? (break) Eight years old, older than me. So I am seventy-eight. Maybe eighty-six. Yes. He was also of the same age. Older than me.

Dr. Patel: You were all the time in Allahabad. You must be knowing them from very close part.

Prabhupāda: No, he was my customer. I used to go to his home. And he was coming to my shop. Yes. He was my customer. When 1928 congress was there, I sent him one letter that "I want to become a delegate and go there." So immediately, "Yes, you come." So I went to Calcutta and I told his secretary that "Panditji has told me like this." "Yes, take this ticket." Yes. I became... So I was criticizing my friend because the delegate fee is one rupee and the reception committee fee at that time was twenty-five rupees. And still, they were in the last seat. And because at that time Motilal Nehru became president, the president, the province in which the president becomes, that provincial member occupies the first seat. So we occupied the first seat from Allahabad. So I...

Dr. Patel: Front seats.

Prabhupāda: Front seat, yes. So I was criticizing my friends in Calcutta that you have paid twenty-five rupees, you have got last seat. I have paid one rupee, I have first seat. We were very thickly... Not very thickly, but as customer... Do you know? I shall tell one incident. One day Jawaharlal Nehru came and he asked me, "Give me prophylactic hair brush." So I told, "Panditji, we are selling prophylactic tube brush and we do not know that there is prophylactic hair brush." "No, you do not know. You get it for me. I want it." So I got it from Bombay, here, and supplied him.

Morning Walk -- April 10, 1974, Bombay:

Devotee: Prabhupāda, in New Delhi the government has banned the use of milk in the sweet shops and there is no more cheese or any milk products.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And there will be no more. These things will vanish. That is stated in the... Rice, wheat, milk, sugar and fruits, they will be no more available. You have to eat meat. That day is coming. But before that day comes, you go back to home, back to Godhead.

Devotees: Jaya!

Prabhupāda: That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa and everything is finished, all this nonsense place, full of demons.

Śrīdhara: "They possessed such an abundance of various kinds of milk products that they were throwing butter lavishly on each other's body without restriction."

Prabhupāda: Just see how rich they were.

Indian man: So much butter and all these things.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Throwing butter like anything. Yes.

Indian man: Now we can see also.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: You want to support your sinful activities by proving Christ as hypocrite. This is your business. You are such a Christian. And your love for Christ is such. (break) ...that we have to follow the instruction of the superior. Even if he acts something against the instruction, you should not follow it. You have to follow his words. You cannot imitate his action. That is real obedience. You should... If he has done something against his instruction, you should know that might have been some particular occasion he has done it, but we are not concerned with that. We are concerned with his order. That is obedience. He has not ordered me to do this thing. So my duty is what he has ordered to me. That is my only duty. What he has done in particular occasion, that is not my duty to see. Just like there is a Bengali verse,

yadyapi nityānanda sūri bari jaya
tathāpi sei amara nityānanda rāya

That sūri bari means wine shop where wine is distilled and sold. That is called sūri bari. And those who are wine sellers, they are called sūri. So I see that Nityānanda is going to a wine shop. So if I say, "Oh, Nityānanda is now spoiled. He is going to wine shop." No. We should not see that. We should know Nityānanda is pure. If he is going to sūri bari, wine shop, he has some business. But because he is going to the sūri bari he is not polluted. I shall not follow him, "Because Nityānanda has gone sūri bari, therefore I shall go." Kṛṣṇa danced with young girls, other's wives always. That does not mean I shall imitate that. What Kṛṣṇa has said, we have to follow that. That's all. Kṛṣṇa never said that "You also dance like me in rāsa dance." Has He said anywhere?

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1974, Bombay:

Bhāgavata: So then it is looked on as a necessity in the society.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Prostitute is necessity. Otherwise these rascals, they will pollute all the woman. Therefore, for the rascals there must be some provision. Just like opening wine shop. It is not meant for everyone. But there are drunkards. Unless they get drinking, they will create some disturbance.

Bhāgavata: So just like in Dvārakā there was prostitutes, and they were all devotees of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There are many devotees, prostitutes.

Bhāgavata: So that was their service, not their service, but that was their work.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhāgavata: But, still they were devotees of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is their profession, livelihood, but they are devotees. In Calcutta, there is a big temple. It is called Kāca-Kāminī's temple. Kāca-Kāminī means she was a prostitute, but she was kept by a very big businessman who was dealing in glass, mirrors and all... So he has made a temple for her with glass and mirrors. Therefore it is called kāca. Kāca means glass. Kāca-Kāminī. (break) ...have a dispensary. Dr. Ojha. He thinks in this way people can be saved. That is also necessary, but not as necessary as this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: No, from this point of... He is right. Unless he has got the medical degrees, unless he is educated... We also say that thing, that unless one is sufficiently educated in medical science or legal science, he cannot be said a medical man or a legal man.

C. Hennis: You see, my organization represents all the states in the world practically, all the states of any importance in the world, with the exception of a few like Monaco and San Marino and Andorra and that kind of place. And through my organization, the states of the world, and that doesn't only mean governments, express their concern and endeavor to improve the lot of all of the people who are active in some way in the economy and in modern society, these may be professional workers. We don't deal with medical doctors because that is the problems of the World Health Organization. We don't deal with teachers and university professors and philosophers and so on because that is more the problem of UNESCO, and they deal with it very thoroughly. We don't deal by any means fully with the actual production of foodstuffs. This is the FAO, the Food and Agriculture Organization who does it. What we do do, we look after the rewards the people get for the work they do in the ordinary way of life as employees in offices, in banks, in commerce, in shops, trading. We are very interested in developing rural areas and in improving the lot of the rural worker so that the rural worker will no longer be under a disadvantage by comparison with the workers in the towns, so that they will have proper facilities, proper leisure and proper opportunities for self-improvement.

Prabhupāda: I may say in this connection, in America, the laborer class is very highly paid. Anyone, any labor class man can earn $25, $50, daily, very easily. But because there is no direction of the brain, these labor class of men—I have seen—they—especially these Negroes—51%, they are drunkards. They spend their money in drinking. They do not know how to utilize the money. Because the brain is not giving direction. Or they have no brain. "I have got so money. How I shall utilize it?" As soon as he gets money, he use it, he uses it for drinking. You may think that you are sufficiently paying to the labor class, worker class, but because he is not guided by brain, he is misspending the money.

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Śakuni, yes. They're vultures, and their civilization is vulture-eater. The animal-eaters, they're like jackals, vultures, dogs. They're similar to these animals, the animal-eaters. It is not human food. Here is human food. Here is civilized food, human food. Let them learn it. Uncivilized, rudes, vultures, rākṣasas, and they're leaders. Therefore, I say all fourth-class men, they are leaders. Therefore the whole world is in chaotic condition. We require first-class men to lead. We are first-class men. Take our advice, and then everything will be all right. We are creating first-class men. What is the use of fourth-class men leading? All fourth-class men. If I say so frankly, people will be very angry. All fourth-class men. Basically, they're all fourth-class men. Now, these first, second, third-class men are described. So at the present moment, no one belongs to this qualification. Even they are not to the third-class men. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyam (BG 18.44). Who is, who is protecting the cows? That is the third-class man's business. So therefore everyone is fourth-class. So the fourth-class men, they are electing their representative to govern. They are also on the big fourth-class men. That is stated in the Bhāgavata, śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). Where is that verse? Find out. All fourth-class men. Not fourth-class, less than fourth-class. Fourth-class has got also some regulative duty. But at the present moment, no regulative duty. Anyone can do whatever he likes, whatever he thinks. All fifth-class, sixth-class men. No regulative principle. The human life is meant for regulative principles. Just like we are insisting our students only for regulative principles just to make them real human life. No regulative principle means animal life. Animal life. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa yamena niyamena... (SB 6.1.13) The yoga system is there. It is to learn the regulative principles, yamena niyamena vā. The yoga system is very strict regulative principle. I do not know what they are doing. Generally, they misuse also that, but yoga means indriya-saṁyama, controlling the senses. That is real yoga system. Because as the animals, they cannot control their senses, similarly... So the human being, having higher intelligence, they should learn how to control the senses. This is human life. Human life means controlling. I give this example. Just like in the... In your country, there is no such shop. In our country, the confectioner's shop is on the roadside, very nice.

Room Conversation -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Still, if you have got a garden, somebody says, "I want to eat some fruits." "Yes, come on. Take as much fruit as you like." But you cannot take it away. Any number of men can come and eat. They even do not prohibit the monkeys. "All right, let him come in. It is God's property." That is the system. That is mentioned in Bhāgavata. If the animals like monkeys, they come to your garden to eat, don't prohibit. Let him. He's also Kṛṣṇa's part and parcel. Where he will eat if you prohibit? It is very practical. I have got another. This is told by my father. My father's elder brother was keeping a cloth shop. My father also was keeping a cloth shop. So it is in the village. So my uncle, what he would do, that before closing the shop, he'll bring one, what is called...?

Bhagavān: A bowl?

Prabhupāda: Bowl, big bowl. Or it is... What do you call, where you keep water?

Bhagavān: Pot.

Prabhupāda: Basin, basin. So one basin full rice he will keep in the middle of the shop. And there are rats. So the rats will take the rice, and not cut even a single cloth. It is practical. Yes. They are also animals. Give them food. They'll not create any disturbance. Give them food. Yes. Because cloth are very costly. And there are rats. If one cloth is cut by the rat, then it is great loss. So to save from this loss, he'll put in a basin... Rice was nothing. Rice... In our childhood, we have seen, two ānās per seer. That is with profit. You see. So one basin full rice, it doesn't cost even one ānā. So by giving one ānā worth food, he saves so many, hundreds of rupees cloth. Otherwise, if they're hungry, they'll cut it. Everyone has got obligation. Even the tiger. Even the tiger... One saintly person was in the jungle. His disciples said the tigers will never come and disturb in the āśrama because the āśrama head, they'll keep some milk little far away from the āśrama, and the tigers will come and drink and go away. He'll call, "You tiger, come and take your milk here!" Just like we call the dogs. They'll come and take the milk and go away.

Room Conversation -- August 12, 1975, Paris (with French translator):

Bhagavān: (to guest) You have read any books of ours?

Woman: (indistinct)

Devotee (1): Many people are very anxious for the French Bhagavad-gītā. We've already received many letters in the mail asking for copies of it.

Devotee (2): One advanced order for Bhagavad-gītā, eighty copies from a book shop.

Prabhupāda: Here?

Devotee (2): In Africa.

Prabhupāda: You can advertise in paper. You will get good orders.

Bhagavān: They have said that this Aurobindo copy, this is almost out of print now.

Devotee (1): There is no edition of Bhagavad-gītā like your edition ever in France. This is the first time.

Prabhupāda: Aurobindo is hodgepodge. It is simply vocabulary. No concrete contribution. Simply words. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). In order to learn the science, one must go to the bona fide guru. Otherwise it is not possible. In the Bhagavad-gītā, find this verse.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not spiritual type, it..., material type. He cannot maintain himself independently. Nowadays people are being educated highly, but if there is no service he has no value.

Guest (2): So the tamasi.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He has no value. I have seen one doctor of chemistry—he could not get any service—in Allahabad. His name was Raghunātha Mitri(?), Dr. Raghunātha Mitri. So he was living at the cost of his father-in-law and making some soap and going to the shop for selling, doctor. That means he could not get any service. Now his independence was to manufacture some soap as ordinary man is doing. But he was chemist; he could not do anything. He could manufacture some soap. So in spite of high education, because he could not get a good job, he had no value. Just like the dogs. The dogs, if they do not get a master, nice, then street dog. He is lean and thin and no shelter, no...

Guest (1): That is what is happening...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): ...at the present time in this country to 10% of the people. They don't have jobs. They are let out. They can't...

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, every country, every country. Now, just like you are highly educated. Your country could not give you service. You are coming here. And that is śūdra. One who cannot live independently, he is śūdra. Paricaryātmakaṁ karyaṁ śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. In this age, everyone is practically śūdra, because nobody can live independently. So we are producing mass śūdras. Therefore it is in chaotic condition. The Communist is the last word of the śūdras. The Communist philosophy is that "We are worker. We have all the power. We must have all the power." And that they are doing. And because they do not want to obey any authority, therefore they are denying existence of God. This is the tendency of the modern society. Not only they do not know what is God, and they are trying to disobey the orders of God. So practically there is no religion. And without religion human society is animal society. Dharmeṇa hīnā pasubhiḥ samānāḥ. "Human being without any ideas of religion, God, he is no better than animal." That is the difference between animal and human being.

Room Conversation with Tripurari -- March 2, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Nikhilānanda was working with Dr. Bose, Bose's laboratory, and before my joining, it was disclosed that I was also... Dr. Bose had one department. He was in charge.

Tripurāri: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you first began to distribute Back to Godhead magazine by yourself, right, in India? You would go to the shops?

Prabhupāda: That was second stage. The first stage I used to publish and distribute as gṛhastha, I did not mind whether one page or not. I was distributing. So spending about four hundred, five hundred rupees, I did not care if one page or not, but I'll distribute. Then, when I retired, left home, I was publishing and distributing myself to get subscription. The subscription was very cheap, two rupees, four annas, I think, for the year. Two copies per month. Just like you published The Harmonist? Like that. Then I published Bhāgavatam. So I was going to libraries, school, colleges, and everyone was purchasing. My Bhāgavata was being purchased by your Congress Library. In Delhi they have got office. So there was standing order, eighteen copies of my book as soon as they are published. The head librarian in India, New Delhi, he gave me standing order. Dallas is very cold? No. Like this.

Tripurāri: Dallas is warm.

Prabhupāda: Warm, oh.

Tripurāri: Probably warmer than here.

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: The people are thropping. Thropping, thropping? What is called?

Bhagavān: Shopping? Throbbing?

Prabhupāda: Throbbing or throbbing?

Brāhmaṇada: Groping?

Prabhupāda: No. Throbbing?

Bhagavān: Groving? What does that mean?

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Cat-patha(?). Just like when you take a fish from the water and put it in the land.

Bhagavān: Oh, throbbing, throbbing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is right word?

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. All politicians, political party, nobody is in peace, simply throbbing-making this party, making that party, combining this party, and the anti-government troops, and this, that, so many... There is no other business.

Brahmānanda: No solution.

Morning Walk -- May 9, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Nice judge. God gave him sense.

Amogha: So actually many people like to see the chanting now. When we go downtown with a big party on Friday and Saturday nights, when they have late-night shopping and movies, many people clap, and they dance a little bit. Sometimes mocking, but also one can see they're affected. And usually if we stop in front of a cinema and chant there, fifty or more people they just stop and they stare, and they can't think of anything else. They just watch and watch and watch. They seem to be fascinated by the sound of Kṛṣṇa's name.

Prabhupāda: There is a natural tendency to hear. Artificially they stopped. Nitya siddha kṛṣṇa bhakti. Appeals to the heart immediately. Unless he is too much sinful it will appeal immediately.

Amogha: In Sydney there was one teacher in a school, a private school, for rich men's sons, very, very wealthy. And he is the head of general studies and the school chaplain. A Christian. One boy from the school became a devotee, although he still went to the school. And the discussion came up in class about what the Hare Kṛṣṇaś believe. So he invited us to come.

Prabhupāda: The clergyman?

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Now the material nature has gone, three modes goodness, passion and ignorance, and mixture. So we are association with the modes of material nature and according to that nature we are manufacturing our next body. This is the... So in the material world we are infecting several types of quality of the nature. Not everyone is on the same quality. Just like these boys, they are being trained up under certain quality, they're not going to the restaurant, they are not going to the liquor shop, they're not smoking, they're not eating meat, they are no illicit sex, they are being trained up, this is a quality. And another man is going to the liquor shop, to the brothel, so many other things. They're not of the same quality.

Jesuit: What is it all leading to? A state of liberation from material things?

Prabhupāda: Yes, there are two... Now in the human form of life, we have got two selection, I think in the Bible also it is said that one goes to hell, one goes to heaven. So we have got two selection, either to the path of hellish condition or to the path of back to home, back to Godhead. This is human life. It is in Sanskrit word it is called pravṛtti-mārga, nivṛtti-mārga. Nivṛtti-mārga means stopping the material way of life and go to the spiritual world, back to home, back to Godhead.

Jesuit: Does that name, that the things such as, you mentioned smoking and alcohol and sex and meat, that all those things are material and therefore bad?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jesuit: Take sex, how can that be considered...?

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: No, they will live, just like they are living. They are coming from the same group. But they are now saintly. It is a question of training them. I have no facility. Whatever I have done, by personal endeavor and their cooperation. Neither your government, I mean the Western government, they helped me, neither my government helped me, although we are struggling to make class of men ideal. They appreciate, but they do not give us... Now, just like we have purchased this house by our endeavor, with great difficulty, because we have no income. We write our books, then we sell, we get some income. So somehow or other we expand. But no government is helping us. They are increasing brothels, drinking. At least in India there was no drinking propaganda. Now the government is making that. They are opening wine shop. India, even in the British period, drinking was very, very restricted. Very, very restricted. First of all socially if anyone drinks, he is rejected as gentleman.

A drunkard was never respected. Similarly meat-eaters. He was considered third-class man. In our childhood we have seen when people learned to eat meat, very secretly, not within the house. Outside the house with some Mohammedan cooker. It was considered very abominable to eat meat, to drink. And women, they were kept strictly under the vigilance of parents, father. Young girls not to mix with any young boy. If one young girl goes out of home and does not come back at night, then her life is finished. Nobody will marry her. So the father had to keep the young girls with great care. And the father was very, very anxious to find out a boy to hand it over. We have seen in our childhood. But now these things are slackened. Jawaharlal Nehru, our late prime minister, introduced divorce law. Now the society is in chaotic condition.

Director: What can you do if society wants it? Society wants it that way.

Room Conversation with Director of Research of the Dept. of Social Welfare -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Indian society, the did not know how to drink tea even. In our childhood we have seen that Britishers started tea garden. There was no tea plants before Britishers. The Britishers saw the labor is very cheap, and they want to do business, they started. Just like they are doing in Africa. So many gardens, coffee and tea. So they started, and the tea was transferred to be sold in America. They were after business. So the... Now, so much tea, who will consume? The government started a tea sets committee. All the tea garden holders they would pay government. And road to road, street to street, their business was canvassing, preparing tea, very nice, palatable tea, and they advertising if you drink tea, then you will not feel very much hungry, and your malaria will go away and so on, so on. And people began to drink tea. Nice cup. I have seen it. Now they have got a taste. Now gradually now a sweeper also, early in the morning, is waiting in the tea shop to get a cup of tea.

Tea was taken in our childhood if somebody is coughing, sometimes they used to tea. That was also later. But it was unknown. Drinking tea, drinking wine, smoking, meat-eating—these things were unknown. Prostitution. There was prostitution. Not that everyone is prostitute. Very strict. So these things should be taken care of—at least a class of men must be ideal for people others will see. And the training should go on, just like we are doing. We are inviting people to come to chant with us, to dance with us, take prasādam. And gradually they are becoming. The same (?) addicted to drinking, addicted to prostitution, addicted to meat-eating, he is becoming saintly person. This is practical, you can see, what was their previous history and what they are now.

Morning Walk -- May 28, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: This is Japanese?

Gurukṛpa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Keep some books in the all tourist shop. It will be sold. (break) She has got my books. Might have purchased.

Gurukṛpa: On the street. We are always here, every day.

Prabhupāda: (break) ...as young man, say, twenty-two, twenty-three. In Jagannātha Purī I used to take bath in the sea. At that time I had energy to take bath.

Gurukṛpa: Jagannātha Purī is nice sea.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gurukṛpa: Called mahā-tīrtha.

Prabhupāda: After that, I don't remember I ever took bath in the sea.

Gurukṛpa: The water is very warm here.

Bali-mardana: You were taking bath in Yamunā.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that I was regularly, when I was in Vṛndāvana. In childhood I was going with my father to take bathing in the Ganges, Calcutta. That I was going regularly.

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Siddha-svarūpa: They put in a newspaper.

Ambarīṣa: You can't avoid seeing it.

Siddha-svarūpa: No, they are always telling you.

Devotee: In front of their shop it's always there.

Siddha-svarūpa: "We have killed this many." They are also trying to connect themselves with patriotism and religion. They have, at all of their restaurants, they have the American flag flying along with the McDonald's flag. They have their own flag, McDonald's. So they fly alongside the American flag. (break)

Ambarīṣa: I heard once that human beings in the modes of goodness were coming from the cow family or from the cows mostly? If there are so many cows being killed, why aren't there more people in the modes of goodness?

Prabhupāda: Hmm? Now, after the... There are three sources: cow, monkey, and lion. This is the last animal life.

Siddha-svarūpa: Okay, now park here.

Prabhupāda: Why not go a little...

Siddha-svarūpa: There's a beach park right up there.

Prabhupāda: Yes, beach park. Oh, you have to stop.

Siddha-svarūpa: The... (break)

Morning Walk -- June 27, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Wheeler, yes. They can take all small books. They cannot take...

Brahmānanda: We'd sell them in the train stations?

Jagadīśa: Yes.

Brahmānanda: That Wheeler, they have shops in every train station.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayatīrtha: When I was there once, I was in the market and I had a Kṛṣṇa trilogy with me and the man who was selling the fruits he started to look at it, and he was so impressed that he immediately offered me ten rupees. And then a big crowd of people came around, and they were looking at the pictures and everything, and they were all bidding, they all wanted that, for ten rupees, they were demanding that I sell it to them. A big crowd of people, they were all willing to pay ten rupees because they'd never seen anything like this book before.

Prabhupāda: What is the position of Bhagavad-gītā? Macmillan, you are not taking supply, so they have stopped?

Jayatīrtha: We've informed them that the..., we want to make the..., because they no longer have it in print, that the abridged edition, we want to break the contract.

Prabhupāda: No, that is already, they have permitted. Anyway, you can...

Jayatīrtha: But as far as the other one is concerned we have a stock on hand.

Morning Walk -- June 29, 1975, Denver:

Prabhupāda: Well, at least he will not take, and the economy will go on. There will be a class of men like him. They will never take. So there is no problem. Your economy will go on. (laughter) (break) ...the prisoners become free, how the prison house will go on? Is that very nice question? What is the use of prison house? For the criminals? (break) ...thinking in that way, that "We are giving up meat, and the slaughterhouse proprietors, they are sorry. Then how our business will go on?" As if that is a very nice business. The sooner you close that business, it is good for you. But he is thinking "How my business will go on? If all these people give up meat-eating, then how this slaughterhouse will go on?" That is the logic. And our logic is the sooner you close this slaughterhouse, the better for you. This is our logic. (to devotee:) Which way? (break) ...liquor shop, the breweries, they are worried, "How business will go on. They are giving up." Cigarette factory. They will be sorry.

Kuruśreṣṭha: In this state of Colorado, the main industry is slaughter.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Kuruśreṣṭha: The main industry in this state of Colorado is the slaughter of cows. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...jīva mā mara. The slaughterhouse maintainer is advised that "You don't die, don't live." Mā jīva mā mara. "Your position... Now you are... If you live, just see how horrible business you are doing. And if you die, you will be slaughtered. So better you don't die, don't live." Mā jīva mā mara. (break) ...nice park, nobody is coming. We Kṛṣṇa conscious people, we are taking advantage. (laughter) They have worked so hard, they are sleeping. We are taking advantage. So they are escaping or we are escaping? Just see how foolish they are. They have worked so hard, and they are not taking advantage. We are taking. So our policy is that "You work hard, and we go and take from you." This is not escaping. This is intelligence, that "You work hard, rascal. You are foolish asses. And we take advantage." Our George Harrison, he is working hard, in England (?). And he worked hard, and he gives a house, Bhaktivedanta Manor. We are not going to construct. Is that escaping or it is intelligence, that "You work hard and give it to me. We enjoy"? This is intelligence; that is not escaping. That is going on. The capitalists, they are engaging these rascals, asses, in the factory, and he enjoys life. That is intelligence. That is not escaping. You know the story of the stag and the jackal? The jackal fell in the well water. So he was not..., unable to come out.

Room Conversation after Press Conference -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: That we also said, that there is no first-class men. So if there is first-class man, then whole question is solved.

Jagadīśa: The men are behaving just like dogs.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Brahmānanda: Today in the hotel where we went there was one barber shop. And the name of the barber shop was "The home of the dog."

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Brahmānanda: Yes.

Prabhupāda: What is the meaning?

Brahmānanda: Well, the idea is that the haircuts of the men are so long, they look like...

Prabhupāda: Dog.

Brahmānanda: ...shaggy dogs.

Prabhupāda: After all, all these questions can be solved if people become Kṛṣṇa conscious. There is no such discrimination. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. These distinctions are there on the material platform. On the spiritual platform there is no such distinction.

Morning Walk -- July 16, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Do they say like that or you are saying?

Citsukhānanda: Well, some people have said. Not widely yet. The work must go on. There's much to go. (break)

Dharmādhyakṣa: Bacteriology, study of germs. So Śrīla Prabhupāda, the reason one person gets a disease from a germ and another person doesn't get a disease, it is karma?

Prabhupāda: No, that is infection. If you are weak, you are infected. That is the science. One who is not weak, he does not become infected. Just like in your country there are so many liquor shop, but you are not interested. So it is like that.

Dharmādhyakṣa: We have a little strength through your divine grace.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There are so many slaughterhouses, but we are not infected. So it is the strength that saves one man from infection. (break) ...learned scholars, they are astonished that I have hypnotized. Otherwise how it is possible? What that Judah's, "charis"...?

Brahmānanda: Charismatic.

Prabhupāda: Charismatic.

Bahulāśva: They say that we're becoming brainwashed.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Why you cannot do? It is brainwash, yes, all dirty things you are...

Bahulāśva: Are being cleansed.

Nara-nārāyaṇa: Brainwashed and also heartwashed.

Morning Walk -- July 19, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: No, no, I don't wonder you. But the gold has got such infection that if one... That is the whole world, that as soon as one has gold, he is no more interested with God. That is the infection. "Ah!" He will say, "This is meant for the poor class of men who has no gold. I have gold. I am God." You know that Kali-yuga. He was punished, that "You get out." Then he said that "Where shall I go? Everywhere is your kingdom." Then Parīkṣit Mahārāja said that "You go here, in the brothel, in the..., these four things." Striyaḥ śūna-pānā dyutāḥ yatra pāpāś catur-vidhāḥ: "Illicit sex, and slaughterhouse, and liquor shop, and gambling." Then he requested that "Instead of going so many places, you give me some place where one place will be sufficient." Then he said, "You go where there is gold. Then you get everything." Striyaḥ śūna-pānā dyutāḥ yatra pāpāś catur-vidhāḥ. Formerly, especially in Bengal, the gold merchants are taken as—that is artificial, of course—the low class because they are rich, and they indulge in these four kinds of prohibition. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)

Morning Walk -- July 21, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Yes. The same thing: the child has no knowledge, but he has faith in his parents, and he believes what his parents says. Then he is making progress.

Bahulāśva: This way.

Prabhupāda: I have faith in you. (break) Now, I give sometimes this example. Just like you go to a barber shop, and you put your neck like this, and he is with the razor. So unless you have faith, "No, he is good man. He will not cut my throat," how can you do so? So faith is the beginning. If you have no... If you say, "No, I have no faith in you," then you cannot be cleansed.

Baradrāj: That example became very clear when we went to India. (Prabhupāda & devotees laugh) Because the barbers are so, they look like they could cut your throat.

Bahulāśva: You have to have a lot of faith.

Prabhupāda: He can do that, but you must have faith. Otherwise no shaving. So many... Suppose you are going to some unknown place. Now we are purchasing, paying two thousand dollars, ticket. But where is the guarantee that you will go there? You are paying first money, but there is no guarantee that you will go there. Then how do you get the ticket? How do you get on the plane unless, without faith? So faith, without faith you cannot move an inch. It must be there. (break) ...believe, "No, no, this ticket is issued by the Pan American. They are good company, and so many people are going. So I will go also." That's all. So faith. You never went there, neither you know whether it will be possible to go there. But still, you have to do. That is faith. (break)

Morning Walk -- August 6, 1975, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: By the neighbors.

Ādi-keśava: Yes. (break)

Brahmānanda: ...heard one report that the mayor of this city, he prevented a race riot. He personally prevented there being a race riot. Recently one white man killed a black man. So the blacks then were attacking his shop, and the mayor personally came and subdued the crowd. He was able to prevent the riot.

Prabhupāda: Recently?

Brahmānanda: Yes. (break)

Ādi-keśava: ...see that in those deer up there, that the one with antlers, the horn coming out of his head, he is the male. He thinks he is in charge of all of the females. He will fight anyone who comes after them, any other deer who comes after them. And he thinks, "I am so strong. I am so brave." He tries to protect them all and chase them away. That one in the center there.

Devotee (1): It looks like they've all assembled to see you.

Prabhupāda: There's a big. (break)

Brahmānanda: We used to go hunting these, with big guns, that innocent animal.

Prabhupāda: Hero. Big hero. (laughter) (break) ...was telling that here also people come and...

Morning Walk -- August 26, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: How you'll do? You say you have no money. How you'll do it? Whole money is going to the stomach. All ghee, all money, everything. And becoming sick and sleepy. Whole day and night sleep. I do not know when it will be finished. What is the use of starting another Gurukula? Whatever you have taken, that is not yet finished. All savvy(?). And your report is, "Everything is all right." Everything is all right except nothing is finished. So I do not know how to do. There was shops made, and why it is closed again?

Dhanañjaya: Because Mr. Sharapi(?) came.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Let him go to the court. We shall see.

Dhanañjaya: Now he's agreed.

Prabhupāda: Then now again break; again make shop. This is going on. There was no expenditure to make the shop, and again closing, there was expenditure. So money is spent like this—"Make it and break it." That is American way.

Dhanañjaya: There is no cement. It is all mud, just muddy.

Prabhupāda: That is explanation. (Hindi)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Because it happened on his land, he was very much against it, but those shops...

Morning Walk -- August 26, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Then now again break; again make shop. This is going on. There was no expenditure to make the shop, and again closing, there was expenditure. So money is spent like this—"Make it and break it." That is American way.

Dhanañjaya: There is no cement. It is all mud, just muddy.

Prabhupāda: That is explanation. (Hindi)

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Because it happened on his land, he was very much against it, but those shops...

Prabhupāda: That is all right, but why did you not ask me? And why you did you not ask me before opening the shop, if you have no brain? If you have no brain, then why did you not ask? You give explanation, "Because that was not." That was not. So why did you do it? And money is coming, "Give me. Send me two lakhs, four lakhs," and things are unfinished. (Bengali)

Brahmānanda: There's still twenty minutes. We could begin the program.

Prabhupāda: When they begin?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: 7:30. We can have Guru-pūjā now and small kīrtana before the Deities open. (end)

Morning Walk -- August 27, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Who is this? (break) Hm? Yes.

Upendra: They don't like nim? The flies.

Prabhupāda: That ask them. (laughter) You do not expect all answers from me, whether the flies like or not like. This is antiseptic. Nim is very, very antiseptic. Therefore it is natural, the flies and bugs, they are afraid of. Yes. (break)...here?

Harikeśa: He's the purchaser.

Akṣayānanda: He does shopping.

Prabhupāda: Namaskar. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (Long Hindi conversation with someone) Dandhariya. Where is he? (Hindi) He knows how to capture. He is the... (Hindi) Guṇārṇava, he has not come?

Akṣayānanda: No.

Prabhupāda: So he is going to Mathurā? You told him? Huh?

Akṣayānanda: He is going after breakfast.

Devotee: What is the purpose?

Akṣayānanda: To meet Prabhupāda's relative, I think?

Prabhupāda: Yes. You have told?

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So from Mathurā he can bring that medicine. You can give him.

Morning Walk -- September 18, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So why they are not printed?

Indian man (1): They will be good sale of photos, I think. (Hindi) It may be supplied in that book shop.

Dhanañjaya: So Bhargava has taken many good shots of the Deities on color film, and Gopāla Kṛṣṇa informed me that we should print postcard-size photos of the Deities and sell them for fifty paisas each. So that, Gopāla Kṛṣṇa is arranging for. (break) ...demand for prasādam will go on increasing because one doctor came to our temple and informed us that at Bankebihari Mandir, because they have been giving out old prasādam, selling old prasādam, which is not in accordance with the health safety rules, they are going to take away that privilege of selling prasādam from Bankebihari temple.

Prabhupāda: So you don't do that. You prepare and sell fresh. Don't prepare more what is required. You have brought that pulleys?

Dhanañjaya: Yes. And he got two.

Prabhupāda: You have fixed up?

Guṇārṇava: They are fixing today. They started the work.

Prabhupāda: You know how to fix?

Morning Walk -- September 29, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Exactly. Double or three-storied.

Kartikeya: Most simple type.

Prabhupāda: Very simple type, very nice. Just get a sketch with your work. This will be done like that.

Brahmānanda: I'll ask Bhārgava. He has his camera. He can take photographs.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And downstairs, all shops. Only the roadside. Other side...

Brahmānanda: Oh, no. That's the courtyard, and then other side, a building. (break)

Bhavānanda: ...at the Gurukula best thing is outdoors classes. As soon as they're in rooms it gets too hot.

Prabhupāda: As far as possible, outdoors.

Bhavānanda: Best place in Māyāpur is on the verandas of the big building. It's perfect.

Prabhupāda: That is very nice.

Brahmānanda: They have verandas on this building?

Prabhupāda: Yes, there is veranda that side.

Brahmānanda: On the inside or the outside?

Prabhupāda: No. No. Inside. Outside closed. (break) ...no that reinforced concrete, all brick. This is all brick. (Hindi) You have got that brick manufacturing concern near?

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Oh. When they open?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: About seven-thirty. Botanical gardens. (break)

Prabhupāda: These are owned by Indians?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: These are some Muslim shops and Indian shops mostly. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...are employed in the factory?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Very menial labor, driving trucks and delivery. Gokulendra, when he went to...

Prabhupāda: They are given equal facility for education?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No. When Gokulendra went to England he saw a European man with a pick in his hand, and he couldn't believe it, because in South Africa you never see a European person with a pick opening up the street. Only the Africans do things like that. And they'll have one European man standing there, directing. He'll make so much money. (break)

Prabhupāda: Indians are taken within the group of black? No.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Well, they have white and nonwhite. So technically speaking, they can classify all of the Indians as nonwhite. But at the same time, there is more division, and they have Indian community, and they have the colored community and the African community.

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: On the whole, the white man is governing.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes, completely.

Prabhupāda: They are keeping, governing. This is Indian house. Eh?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. This is Indian shopping, all Indian shops here. From here back is all Indian.

Prabhupāda: So the European come here to shop, for shopping?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: They are Indians or, these, white?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Muslims. Most of these Muslims originally from Gujarat side. Their forefathers came here.

Prabhupāda: They are called Boris. (pronounces "Boreez") Boris Muslim.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Boris Muslim.

Prabhupāda: They were formerly Hindus. All Muslims were Hindus formerly.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They have an Islamic propagation center here, and I went there. I was walking by one day. They invited me in. So they began to blaspheme this and that. So I asked them, "What is your conception of God?" He said, "God is beyond conception." So I told him that "Therefore you cannot say that Kṛṣṇa is God and you cannot say that Kṛṣṇa is not God, because you don't know what God is."

Room Conversation with Bill Faill (reporter) -- October 8, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: Yes. The whole process is how to purify ourself. So by... according to eating, the purification also... I think Mr. Bernard Shaw, he wrote one book that "You Are What You Eat." And that's a fact. We constitute our bodily atmosphere and mental atmosphere according to eating. So our Kṛṣṇa conscious movement recommends... Not the movement recommends. It is recommended in the śāstra that to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, you eat the remnants of foodstuff left by Kṛṣṇa. Just like opposite way: if a tuberculosis patient eats something and if you eat the remnants, then you will be infected with the tuberculosis bacillus. Is it not? So similarly, if you eat kṛṣṇa-prasādam, then you infect Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is our process. We don't take anything directly. We offer to Kṛṣṇa. Then we take kṛṣṇa-prasādam. That helps us. We do not take anything... We cannot take anything from the restaurant or from the shop. No. We prepare everything, offer to Kṛṣṇa. Then we take.

Faill: You're all vegetarians, are you?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, because Kṛṣṇa is vegetarian. Kṛṣṇa says... Kṛṣṇa can eat anything because He is God, but He recommends, "Give Me vegetable." Patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). He never said, "You give Me meat or wine or this," no.

Faill: Those are all out. They have to be. And tobacco is...

Prabhupāda: Tobacco is also intoxication. We are already intoxicated in the bodily conception of life, and if we put more intoxication, then we are lost.

Faill: You mean these things just reinforce body consciousness.

Morning Walk -- October 9, 1975, Durban:

Prabhupāda: That's all. That's all. Exploiting, that's all. This is their business. Just like Pakistan politicians, as soon as they cannot supply food, they declare war with India. The attention is diverted. Here also we have seen in the last war. When no man was joining, so in India, they created artificial famine. So for want of food they joined military. The government created a situation, purchased all the food grains and stocked. And when the price is very high the government opened controlled shop at high price. The people had no money; therefore they were obliged to join military. These polit..., demons, they are so dangerous, simply to keep their position they are doing all nefarious activities. Simply there is... Because they don't believe in the next birth, they are not afraid of sinful activities. They can do anything, "Whatever I like. There is no... This life is finished." That is the whole philosophy of the modern educated man, "There is no life." Big, big professors, they say like that, "There is no life after death." Therefore the Ārya-samājī rascal was: "That is Hindu belief." Why Hindu belief? Does the Mohammedan do not grow old? That answer he could not give. He is such a rascal. And at last he said that "I am God."

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They are dogmatic.

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Yes. I will have to do something. That is another thing. But why you are cheating me? Instead of gold, you are giving me paper. Formerly... You have seen in Kṛṣṇa book that one fruit man came, and Kṛṣṇa was taking some grain. It was falling down. So that was the... A fruit man come, and you give him a packet of grain. Then whatever exchange is possible, the fruit man gives you fruit. That's all.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That is called bartering.

Prabhupāda: Bartering. So there is no need of money. Similarly, you go to another shop. You get. So you produce your food, and in exchange, in barter, you get all things, other things. Somebody is producing something, somebody is producing something. But it can be done. Suppose I am a blacksmith. You want some work from me. So you say that "I'll make this instrument for me." So I say, "You give me one kg paddy." So you give me one kg, I prepare you, so your necessity is fulfilled. Now I have got so much paddy. Now, I may go to purchase something else because I am blacksmith, so grains will be used for my eating, and for, say for ghee, I take the same grain somewhere. So where is the money need of?

Harikeśa: It's very difficult to cheat in that system. It's very difficult to cheat.

Prabhupāda: Cheat?

Harikeśa: In a system of bartering it's very hard to cheat.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no cheating. Everyone is simply simple, honest. And here the government begins cheating. He is engaging you to hard work day and night and paying you a piece of paper, where it is written "one hundred dollars." That's all. This is your society, cheating and cheater. That's all.

Morning Walk -- October 17, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Ah, fumigation.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: When the termites get into the wood they eat up the wood and they hide in nests underneath the house. So the way that they try to kill the termites is by gassing them. They cover their house with a tent, and then they gas, and it goes into the nests and kills all the termites. They are perfecting this art of killing. You said that in Calcutta in a very expensive cloth shop... Your father's brother used to have cloth shop?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That when there was rats and they would eat the cloth that he would simply put some prasādam in the room.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: And the rats would come and take. They wouldn't eat the cloth.

Prabhupāda: No. Just like a man also. If he gets food, shelter, then he doesn't commit any criminal act. Man is also dangerous. Even if you give him food, shelter, he will do mischievous activities. That is man. But an animal will not do it. You can tame even a tiger by giving him food. He will never... If he sees that you are giving him food he'll never attack, the tiger also, feeling obliged.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: That's duracara? Duracara?

Prabhupāda: Ferocious, but still, when he is given food by somebody, he feels obliged.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: On one lecture tape you said that man is duracara, very difficult to... When he's misbehaved?

Morning Walk -- October 19, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: But Indians are not getting that. You are better than the Indians in India.

Indian man (1): That's what everybody says who comes from...

Prabhupāda: Oh, I see. Here I see you are prosperous than in India. You go to the ration shop; you simply find all rejected food grains.

Indian man (1): Rejected food grains.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They are not eatable. No country uses them as food grain, and India, they are selling, a good price.

Indian man (1): The people are lazy too, Swamiji.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Indian man (1): Don't you think the people are lazy also?

Prabhupāda: Well, you are the same Indian. Why you are not lazy here? It is the government's policy or government's management. You see? To become lazy is the recommendation of the śāstra. To become lazy... It is a bad word, "lazy," but actually life means not to work very hard. That is real life. And to work hard for eating, that is animal life, that is not human life. Human life should be very peaceful, without any hard work, and cultivating spiritual knowledge. That is human life, not that, to work hard like hogs and dogs throughout the whole day for find out some stool, where it is. That is not human life. So people are being educated to work very hard. That is not human life. Therefore those who have got money, they build nice bungalow in a secluded place to live peacefully, to become lazy. Is it not?

Indian man (1): Yes.

Morning Walk -- November 2, 1975, Nairobi:

Prabhupāda: Why you should go outside? Who has allowed him to go outside? Unless he has got some important business for the temple, why one should go to outside? There is no need. That is the chance of falling down. Why you should go outside? We are arranging for the temple, for the food. Why? Because everyone should stick to the temple and the principles. Why you should go to outside? That should be stopped. You cannot go outside.

Devotee (7): May we go to the shop to buy something?

Prabhupāda: That is another thing. That is for temple's benefit or business. That is another thing. Somebody goes to sell books, somebody goes to make some life members. That is another thing. Otherwise one is not allowed at all. Not whimsically "I am going out." Why you are spoiling your men?

Devotee (9): Prabhupāda, sometimes I've seen devotees say that they did not like to chant in the temple room with the opposite...

Prabhupāda: Then that is a rascal. He is not a devotee. He is a rascal, when a devotee says... How you become devoted? If he does not like the temple and he thinks to be happy outside, what is he? What kind of devotee he is? He is not a devotee.

Devotee (9): What I meant to say is he does not want to chant with women in the temple room. I have seen this before. He says, "I do not want to chant in a room with women. I would rather be away from the women."

Prabhupāda: That means he has got distinction between men and women. He is not yet paṇḍit. Paṇḍitaḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). He is a fool. That's all. He is a fool. So what is the value of his words? He is a fool.

Morning Walk -- November 14, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Otherwise it is bogus.

Indian man (5): It is very good.

Prabhupāda: Ah, yes. Formerly these goldsmith boys, their father simply taught how to test gold. And as soon as he learns, he opens a shop and he earns thousands and thousands of rupees. No education. Simply by...

Yaśomatīnandana: Yes. Even today the jewelers' sons, they are expert in knowing diamonds and they make millions of rupees.

Indian man (6): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: This is Indian old fashion. They simply know how to test jewels and gold. That's all. One knowledge makes him rich.

vyavasāyātmikā buddhir
ekeha kuru-nandana
bahu-śākhā hy anantāś ca
buddhayo 'vyavasāyinām
(BG 2.41)

Avyavasāyinām bahu-śākha. And vyavasāyayinām-one. From practical point of view, from business point of view also, I started this Kṛṣṇa conscious business with forty rupees. Now we have forty crores. Who has got such business success? (laughter) Bring anyone. Within ten years. And here is Ambarīṣa Mahārāja. He is ready to give us any money, any amount of money, Ambarīṣa Mahārāja, yes, whole Ford Company. (laughter) So who has got this business? Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. I think there is no such history in the world, to begin business with forty rupees, and within ten years it becomes forty crores. One cannot imagine even.

Morning Walk -- November 21, 1975, Bombay:

Mahāṁsa: The structure is over, Prabhupāda. Now the ornamental work is started since last fifteen days. They said they could finish it by March, but I don't know if we'll be able to push it before that. Since last one month the collections have also increased. So if the collections go on in the same speed as we are going now, it may be finished by March. But otherwise definitely by August it will be complete. (break) ...fifteenth of this month Indira Gandhi was in Hyderabad. I got a letter from Praghoṣa that there were lakhs of people there to see her, and we have printed up coupons which we go shop to shop and tell everyone that "You buy one brick for the temple. So eleven rupees is the cost of one brick. So in your name one brick must be put." So we have these coupons, and they distributed six thousand rupees' worth of coupons in that program. Six hundred coupons they distributed in that meeting.

Prabhupāda: "Sell well." You know he is "sell well" man. (laughter)

Mahāṁsa: Sell a brick for the temple. Well, one person got the book, and he came the next day and he wanted to become a member. He was convinced. And Acyutānanda says that this is for the atheistic people who cannot understand God, so here we are proving scientifically that God exists and how Kṛṣṇa is the supreme scientist. So materialists, there are so many materialistic people, they always like these kind of books, so they are buying.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: The next book will also be a big hit, I think, that these scientists are preparing.

Mahāṁsa: Daily there are at least 2,000 to 2,2500 people coming to the program. There would be more if there was more space, but it's an enclosed hall, so we can't fit in more people. It's packed up.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's a lot bigger than it was three months ago?

Room Conversation -- December 14, 1975, New Delhi:

Bhāgavata: Rajneesh, same philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Hm. But they do not know; na te vidu svartha-gati hi viṣṇum; these rascals they do not know what is the actual aim of life. They are, in the groups of ordinary men, they are doing some business opened this transcendental TM shop, that's all. Cheating. Cheating. All of them are are going on, cheating. Nobody knows the real interest is to go back to home, back to Godhead. Nobody knows. Ask any so-called sādhu, yogi, swami—they do not know. They read Bhagavad-gītā but they do not understand. (sic:) Yad jñātv na nivartante tad dhāma parama mama, so what do they understand, these... tyaktv deha punar janma naiti mam eti so'rjuna. They do not believe all these things, therefore they say.. Swami Chinmayananda says that whatever is necessary we shall accept; other ślokas we shall reject. This is his, this rascal's philosophy. As if Kṛṣṇa says something superfluous. They say like that. And the other day some gentleman came, "It is ficticious writing... You were present?

Haṁsadūta: Hm.

Prabhupāda: "Why he is not silent?" Kṛṣṇa is not silent. Kṛṣṇa is speaking. Why you should be silent when I challenge you like this. He said, he could not answer. This is going on. So many things they are doing, if they are challenged, they cannot answer. You were present? I told him, "Why silent? Kṛṣṇa is not silent. He says continually, Bhagavān uvāca; page after page, and he's saying "Why he should silent?" He gave me the information that Brahman was silent and anyone who would go to him, he would remain silent and the message would be transferred.

Page Title:Shop (Conversations 1969 - 1975)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, RupaManjari
Created:18 of Nov, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=73, Let=0
No. of Quotes:73