Prabhupāda: The Carvaka Muni: ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet: "Some way or other prepare foodstuff with ghee." "I have no money." Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā: "Just take. Beg, borrow, steal, bring ghee and prepare nice foodstuff and eat and enjoy life." This is the material world. But śāstra says, "No, no, no. Don't do this. This is the hog's business. Tapo. Just try to go, follow austerity." Even those who are so-called advanced in knowledge, karmī, jñānī, yogī, they are also after sense gratification. Karmī is openly after sense gratification and jñānī is subtly. "No, no. This kind of..." Brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. "Now I shall enjoy Brahman. I shall become God." This is another side, the same sense enjoyment. Because I have failed becoming a minister or becoming a king, becoming a leader, becoming—I have failed, now I shall become God. Same sense grati.... They cannot understand that this is also sense gratification. "I am not no more satisfied by becoming a little minister and king and.... No. I shall become God.
Sense gratification (Conversations 1976 - 1977)
Expressions researched:
"gratification of the senses"
|"gratifying his senses"
|"gratifying me senses"
|"gratifying my senses"
|"gratifying our senses"
|"gratifying senses"
|"gratifying the senses"
|"gratifying their senses"
|"gratifying your senses"
|"sense gratification"
|"sensual gratification"
Conversations and Morning Walks
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Viṣaya... (Bengali) This sense gratification, that is available everywhere. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Śāstrījī: (chanting Sanskrit or Bengali ślokas) (break) Āise guru-pada-kamalaṁ vande. Āise guru-pada-kamalaṁ vande. (chants Bengali verses)
Prabhupāda: (break) ...sex. Āhāra-nidra-bhaya-maithuna. This is life: sex and bhaya, fearfulness, and then eating and sleeping-four things. They must eat, they must sleep, and the sex, and as soon as some men are coming, flying. This is there in the human society. Where is the distinction?
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No distinction.
Prabhupāda: They are also together, the same sex. Āhāra-nidra-bhaya-maithuna. And they are writing books, big, big book, "Sex Psychology," Freud. This rascals' philosophy.
Prabhupāda: (Bengali) Don't manufacture knowledge. Take knowledge from Bhagavān. And that is our business. (Bengali) Don't order Bhagavān. Just follow Bhagavān. That is wanted. (Bengali) Don't write concocted poetries. That is not beneficial. Simply follow. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). That is your business, not to give upadeśa to Kṛṣṇa, "Kṛṣṇa, do this." Nāciye nāciye āile gopāla: "My dear Gopāla, please come to me, nāciye, dancing." And the Gopāla is father's servant. Ordering, "Gopāla, come," nāciye nāciye, "my sense gratification." It is all nonsense. Why should you ask Gopāla to come to you? (Bengali) You cannot order. You must follow. (Bengali) ...to carry out the order of God, not to order God to carry out my order. That is mistake.
Prabhupāda: And that's all. So you can do your sense gratification process, yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi tuccham, what is condemned by Prahlāda Mahārāja, that "This kind of happiness is most abominable and insignificant." Tuccham. Tuccham means very insignificant. Kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham. It is just like itching between the two hand, and after-result is misery. That's all. Iva duḥkha-duḥkham. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ (SB 7.9.45). They know it, that after this enjoyment of itching sensation there will be so much trouble. But neha tṛpyanti: they are not satisfied. Again and again. Bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. Begetting one child... Just see. It is going on. (children in background) No shame. That is animal. No shame. In Western countries they are learning... I have seen. In Los Angeles beach they are having sex open. Just like these birds or beasts. Tṛpyanti neha kṛpaṇā bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. They are trying to make birth control. Why? Bahu-duḥkha-bhājaḥ. That illicit or legal sex, the after-result is very miserable.
Prabhupāda: It is less than demonic. Demonic qualities, they have some activity and laziness is ignorance, darkness. Therefore too much sleeping is very, very bad. That is another part of laziness. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **, one has to conquer over this sleeping and laziness. Eating, nidrā, ahāra, vihāra, sense gratification, vihāra means sense gratification. One has to minimize these things up to the point of nil, that is perfect. When there is no more sleeping, no more eating, no more mating, and no more fearing, that is perfection of spiritual life. And that is not possible, but as much as possible. (break) ...they cannot sleep more that the culture (?) is very great gain, profit.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Acyutānanda: ...when they do something for their sense gratification, but to sacrifice—"Oh, Kṛṣṇa has to tell me. Kṛṣṇa wills it." Then they don't... They say, "Why did Kṛṣṇa create evil?" Then there is a very peculiar question that comes sometimes: "If Kṛṣṇa knows that we were going to fall down, why didn't He save us?" or something like that.
Prabhupāda: He's saving you.
Sudāmā: In the West, that is a very popular question.
Prabhupāda: He's saving.
Sudāmā: Why didn't...
Prabhupāda: He's asking that "You... I'll save you. You surrender to Me."
Acyutānanda: Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8).
Prabhupāda: ...in the Bhagavad-gītā: manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7). This is the nature's law. What you have got to say about this thing? Nothing. It is already there. Prakṛti-sthāni karṣati. Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati: "Although they are my part and parcel," mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7), still, "because they have been predominated by the mind, manaḥ, and the senses, they are struggling." So our propaganda is "Stop this sense gratification and mental concoction. Then the struggle will cease. And if you still abide by the senses and mental dictation, then you'll have to suffer."
Acyutānanda: (break) ...a bullock can pull it out. Bullocks can pull it out. And fifty years ago, they would have the bullocks...
Prabhupāda: (break) ...if does not become Kṛṣṇa conscious, he remains a fool and go on, all things foolish. I will suggest something; you'll suggest something; he'll suggest something. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇā manorathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12).
Prabhupāda: That... That will depend on the preaching of the sannyāsīs. What is this? Frame?
Indian man (1): It's a hot iron building, Prabhupāda.
Hari-śauri: It's the wrong type of renunciation.
Prabhupāda: There is no renunciation. There is sense gratification. "I like this." That's all. He is thinking that "I am so renounced," but he's still satisfying his senses. That's all. As soon as we manufacture something, that is sense gratification. "I want to fulfill my desire. That's all." That is sense gratification. It may be I sit down on the tree, or I may sit down on the palace. That is sense... The basic principle is sense gratification. The other day I was talking about hīrā-cora and kṣīrā-cora. Hīrā means diamond. And kṣīrā means...
Devotees: Cucumber.
Prabhupāda: "I shall steal. I shall steal one cucumber." And another one thinks, "If I steal, I shall steal the diamond." But the stealing propensity is there, hīrā-cora or kṣīrā-cora. "Well, I am stealing one..., only one cucumber. That is not very dangerous." But, but to the eyes of law, both of them are criminal, either you take hīrā or kṣīrā. Big thief and small thief, that's all. Thief. You are thief. So we manufacture concoction that "Yes, I have got this stealing propensity. So I'll not steal diamond. I'll steal kṣīrā, not hīrā." This is only mental concoction, but he is a thief.
Prabhupāda: Hm ?
Jayapatākā: So gṛhastha life is Kṛṣṇa allowing us to steal kṣīrā?
Prabhupāda: Hm? Yes, kṣīrā-cora. The prostitute-hunter is hīrā-cora, and he's a kṣīrā-cora. That's all.
Hari-śauri: (break) ...sense gratification that comes from renouncing like that, that's like the Māyāvādīs.
Prabhupāda: Eh? Eh?
Hari-śauri: By artificial renouncing everything, they're actually simply another form of sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: Not artificial. It is a process. We have to give up this sense gratification. Go through a process to trained up. Just like sometimes in the club there is artificial swimming. Is it not? Artificial swimming. That is not swimming. But to practice something.
Hṛdayānanda: Or the...
Dayānanda: But sometimes people who renounce like that, they become very proud. What is that?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Hm.
Prabhupāda: What is their knowledge, nonsense? He has know...? Have they knowledge?
Bhagavān: They're trying to prove that sense gratification is bona fide.
Guru-kṛpā: ...and the explanation of...
Prabhupāda: And where is sense gratification? As soon as nature kicks you out, where is your sense gratification?
Hṛdāyānanda: It's a relative thing. Actually, compared to the ordinary man, he's much more intelligent.
Prabhupāda: What is intelligence?
Hṛdāyānanda: He's thinking that "I know so many things, and these other people, they don't know these things. Therefore I'm better than them."
Prabhupāda: So the birds and beasts, they know better than you many things. There are many birds and beasts.
Prabhupāda: Anywhere, if you break the laws, you suffer. Anywhere.
Devotee (2): Prabhupāda, science has develop methods where they can have sense gratification and.... Just like if they get some disease they can give them some medicine, and then the disease goes away very easily. So in this way, they're actually giving more facility for more sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: So do you like to accept it, that disease? Therefore it has been condemned, prāyaścitta. Perhaps you have read it in the beginning of Sixth Canto. Prāyaścitta... Parīkṣit Mahārāja condemned, "What is the use of this Vedic prāyaścitta if it is suffering, again and again? Then what is the use?" That he has condemned. But prāyaścitta vimarśanam. Therefore the rascal should be given knowledge that "You are attacked with some disease. Very good. You are injected with some medicine. You are cured. Then again you are attacked. So why you are going in this way? Stop it." And that is knowledge. That knowledge is also not perfect, because even a man in knowledge, he knows that "If I go to prostitute, I'll be attacked with syphilitic poison, and last time I had the same trouble. I had to spend so much money." But still he'll go, because he has no knowledge. So even one has no knowledge, if he takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then he becomes detestful: "Oh..." That is the, mean, gift of bhakti.
Prabhupāda: That is desire. Therefore bhakti means you shall not desire anything except to serve Kṛṣṇa. Then you are safe. Because you are desiring so many things for your sense gratification, you are becoming implicated.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes. So the point is that if a...
Prabhupāda: Just like a good child. He has decided, "I shall do only what my father says." Then he is safe. And as soon as he misuses his indep..., little independence, he is complicated. So decide like that, that "I shall not do anything which is not ordered by Kṛṣṇa." Then it is all right. Otherwise you'll suffer. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). Make it zero. Then you are safe. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānuśīlanam (CC Madhya 19.167). Simply do, act, what Kṛṣṇa says; then you are safe. Why don't you do that? That is also independence. You are misusing independence. You are misusing. Then you must suffer. The government says, "Do according to the law." Then you are safe. Government will give all protection. And if you violate law, you must suffer.
Prabhupāda: Implicated by desires. We are desiring always, constantly. So the desire makes your next body. Every living entity in this material world is desiring how to enjoy. What is your question? Eh?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: How the eternal spirit soul becomes so completely absorbed that he completely forgets about the future and simply he becomes absorbed in some temporary sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: That is material existence. Material existence means to satisfy senses. That is material existence. Don't you see that everyone is planning for some material.... Just that one man is the.... Tamāla Kṛṣṇa was saying that he was eating motorcar. Just see. (laughter) What is the meaning of this? But he is desiring like that, that "I shall be famous man by eating motorcar."
Guru dāsa: He's desiring for fame.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Everyone can understand, "What is the use of this fame?" but he is desiring. This is going on. That is the cause of his bondage. This life he's desiring to eat motorcar, next life he is desiring to eat something, enjoy something, varieties of mano-dharma, mental concoction, and that is his bondage. Kṛṣṇa is so kind; whatever he desires, he is given the facility: "All right, take it."
Jayādvaita: To be recognized, our men will have to be, as you were saying yesterday, perfect gentlemen.
Prabhupāda: Yes, brāhmaṇa means perfect gentleman. Brāhmaṇa means perfect gentleman. A rogue, thief, cannot become brāhmaṇa. (laughs) Brāhmaṇa is perfect gentleman. Who feels for others, that is gentleman. Who does not feel for others, for his sense gratification, he is a rogue. A brāhmaṇa, a gentleman, must feel that "Why there should be animal killing?" That is gentleman. If you are killed, you cry and you are.... Hundreds and thousands of animals you are killing on the plea that they have no soul? Lowest class, narādhama. They have been described as narādhama. So narādhama civilization, how he can be happy? There must be frustration.
Prabhupāda: Stop disease; otherwise where is improvement? (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) ...poetry, kṛṣṇa-bahirmukha hañā bhoga vāñchā kare, nikaṭa-stha māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare (Prema-vivarta). As soon as the living entity desires sense gratification, immediately māyā captures.
Dr. Patel: That is what I want. I really meant. Man is producing the desire. You cannot...
Prabhupāda: (break) ...sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi.
Dr. Patel: New (indistinct), do you mean to say?
Prabhupāda: No, old (indistinct), everything. Yes, all, all squared up, all accounts squared up. Begin new chapter of your life. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate (BG 14.26). As soon as one begins devotional service, he shall be clean of all sinful reactions. Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Enviousness is caused by sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Enviousness is caused by sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: And in the Fifteenth Chapter of the Seventh Canto, in one verse you mention that enviousness can be given up if one gives up the tendency to sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So we see sometimes that the Māyāvādīs, they have perhaps given up the affairs of this world, but still, they remain envious, inimical towards Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Then?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So, how...
Prabhupāda: What he has given up? (laughter) What he has given up? You say he has given up; what he has given up? "I have given up everything, but I remain proprietor." What is this, given up? There is not, no "given up." The contradiction's there. One who has given up, what he has given up? He has not given up his personality. Then what he has given up? In Bengali it says that rasamba sataya chaibe tyāga,(?) (indistinct) that "In the room, whatever is there, it is yours. But I lock it, I keep the key." (laughter) (Bengali) "I have given up." What you have given up? You have kept the keys. So we have to accept that he's given up? This is another foolishness.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (break) ...go back to Godhead can be sense gratification?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also a contaminated desire. Otherwise why Caitanya will say mama janmani, to go? Kṛṣṇa says, yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramam (BG 15.6). If one goes to Vaikuṇṭha he does not come. But Caitanya also says He does not desire that. He is.... "Let me remain perpetually here, but be engaged in Your service." That is real, pure devotee. He doesn't want even promotion. That is also mentioned now: dīyamānaṁ na gṛhṇanti. Dīyamānam, even Kṛṣṇa says, "Come immediately to Vaikuṇṭha," "Sir, that is for..." Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. Prahlāda Mahārāja was offered, "Whatever you like, you take." "Sir, do not make me a bāniyā (indistinct)." (break) But if anyone wants in exchange of service, then he's not a devotee, he's a bāniyā (merchant).
Prabhupāda: Then how he's living? And the elephant in the forest of Africa. Who is going to give them food? How they're living? From the elephant to the ant, He's providing, and He cannot provide you. This is all mistaken idea. You haven't got to ask. Everything is there. Because in the.... (break) ...accustomed to sense gratification life after life, we are habituated to ask. That is a habit. "Habit is the second nature." Actually, we don't require. These dogs, they are not asking, going to the church for asking, "God, give us our daily bread." Where he is getting bread? (break) Dogs are enjoying, but they are not asking bread from God. And where they are getting? (bird chirping in background.) (break) ...how he's chirping so nicely. But he has no anxiety. He knows that "I'll get my food anywhere. That's all right." The bird has got the sense, confidence: "Yes, I'll get." And that's a fact.
Prabhupāda: That there was something (indistinct), one picture (indistinct). There was competition that painter has to paint a picture that there is (indistinct) of the mother with child, so what would be the facial expression. So the painter has to express the feelings (indistinct). That one painter he painted a picture of the mother, intimate picture. (indistinct). So that is real life. You may paint (indistinct) expression, that is artificial. The real thing, the mother cannot see it. That mother, that is (indistinct). It is (indistinct). So how the mother can see it? There is (indistinct) being killed. So it is not very easy to (indistinct) cover the mother, there is no question of him painting so many rascal expressions. That is (indistinct). All (indistinct) in the name of religion. All rascals. All rascal. Sinful. They do not know what is God, they do not know (indistinct) what is the meaning of love. Simply rubber-stamp: "I am Christian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim." They are interested only in sense gratification. There cannot be any religion. So this cheating type of religion is rejected. Dharmaḥ projjhita kaitavaḥ. All cheating type of religion is kicked out. This is no religion at all. All bogus. Is that religion, (indistinct) the instruction of Christ, (indistinct) kill Him. Is that religion? And they are showing how He was killed.
Prabhupāda: ...speaking karmī and bhakta.
Devotee (1): The bhakta has no desires to fulfill, whereas the karmī has unlimited desires to fulfill.
Devotee (2): The bhakta desires to carry out the order of Kṛṣṇa, and the karmī is interested in satisfying himself, gratification of the senses.
Prabhupāda: Karmī is also working and bhakta is also working. Then what is the difference?
Hari-śauri: One is working for his own sense satisfaction and the other is working for the sense satisfaction of Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee (2): Mentality?
Devotee (3): The devotee is peaceful, ever peaceful.
Prabhupāda: Karmī.... Just like, I began this Kṛṣṇa consciousness business with forty rupees, eh, in New York. Now, say within eight or ten years we have got forty crores. What is the karmī who started his business with forty rupees and within ten years, eight years, has got forty crores?
Prabhupāda: From four o'clock up to ten.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Now there's twenty-four-hour kīrtana. So all day and night.
Rāmeśvara: (break).... on the decline of the churches in America, and they say that the biggest reason in the last few years is that Pope, he issued one big statement against birth control and abortion. He said, "Catholics cannot practice birth control and should never have abortion." So they did not like this. So that is the biggest reason for the decrease in attending the church. They broke away from the authority.
Prabhupāda: That means if the church allows sense gratification without restriction, then they'll attend church. That is the conclusion.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're dictating.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The mass is dictating. Same thing as in...
Prabhupāda: That means, conclusion is, on account of sinful life churches being closed. Not the Pope, but the sinful. Pope said, "You cannot do this sinful," and they are sinful. Therefore they desert their church.
Prabhupāda: Thank you. So here in the material world happiness means sense gratification, that's all. So Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "The happiness of sense gratification, obtainable in any form of life..." The birds, beasts, human beings or even the demigods, cats, dogs—everyone has got the happiness of sense gratification, namely eating, sleeping, sex and defense. That is obtainable everywhere. But the spiritual happiness, that is obtainable in human form of life. Therefore the human being from childhood... Kaumāra ācaret prajño dharmān bhāgavatān iha (SB 7.6.1). From the very beginning of childhood. Why so early? Durlābhaṁ manusam janma. This human form of life is obtained after many, many births' evolutionary process. And adhruvam. There is no certainty that I shall live so many years. Although it is estimated that one is expected to live for at least hundred years—that is estimation—but at the present moment at least, nobody is living up to that. So even there is such indication, still, there is no guarantee. We can die at any moment. Adhruvam, but arthadam. Although it is adhruvam—there is no guarantee—but whatever period we get, we can utilize it for the best purpose. Arthadam. We can gain the ultimate goal of life, arthadam. That is... He is giving stress. Arthadam means spiritual realization. That is arthadam. Otherwise we remain like animals. The animal has also sense gratification process: how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex and how to defend. So sukham aindriyakaṁ daitya. He is addressing his friends as daitya, "sons of the demons." He is addressing his father as "best of the demons." (laughs) There are two classes of men: deva and asura. Dvau bhūta-sargau loke daiva asura eva ca (BG 16.6). In this material world there are... (aside:) Why not Dr. Wolfe may come here, bring his chair here? You can sit down there. You can bring your chair. So this sense gratification is available. Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ yat. These are called viṣaya. Viṣaya means sense enjoyment. So viṣayaḥ sarvataḥ syāt. In any form of life these four principles are there. Eating arrangement is there. (aside:) Come on. Sleeping arrangement is there. The bird, he is not anxious about eating, sleeping, mating. It is already there. He has got a nest above the tree. At night he is very safe and sleeping nicely. And in the morning, he knows, somewhere there is some fruit, he'll get his food. He's not anxious.
Nalinīkaṇṭha: Yathā duḥkham ayatnataḥ
Prabhupāda: Ah. And these things are available without any endeavor, as we get distressed condition of life without any endeavor. There are two things in this world: distress and happiness. So we don't call for distress, that "Malaria fever comes to me. I shall enjoy." Nobody says, but it comes. So similarly, this is distress. If distress comes by the superior arrangement, so happiness also will come by superior arrangement. So why should we bother about these things? Now tasyaiva hetoḥ praya... Therefore our endeavor should be for understanding ourself, self-realization, and our relationship with God or what is God, what is the nature. These things, athāto brahma jijñāsā, this is our business, not to waste our valuable time for searching after sense gratification. It is not human civilization, and that is..., that is demonic civilization. That is Prahlāda Mahārāja, stressing. Sukham aindriyakaṁ yad... Read it?
Nalinīkaṇṭha: Next one?
Prabhupāda: No, no, this verse.
Gopavṛndapāla: Many people also, they are collecting money all throughout this life, but they don't use it for their own sense gratification, yet they leave it for their children and they think in this way: "My children will enjoy, and then all my work had some value."
Prabhupāda: Hm. Yes. Where he is going he does not know. He's thinking of his grandchildren. This is called māyā.
Dr. Wolfe: That is also attachment to the material world, because he wants to be thought of.
Prabhupāda: Yes. There are different symptom of material attachment. He does not know who is the rascal coming as my grandchild, but he is making bank balance for them.
Dr. Wolfe: Yeah. He wants to be remembered.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Sometimes he has no wife; still, he thinks of grandchild.
Hari-śauri: Purport: "Activity in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or acting for the benefit of Kṛṣṇa without expectation of sense gratification, is the highest transcendental quality of work. Even a small beginning of such activity finds no impediment, nor can that small beginning be lost at any stage. Any work begun on the material plane has to be completed, otherwise the whole attempt becomes a failure. But any work begun in Kṛṣṇa consciousness has a permanent effect, even though not finished. The performer of such work is therefore not at a loss even if his work in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is incomplete. One percent done in Kṛṣṇa consciousness bears permanent results, so that the next beginning is from the point of two percent;, whereas, in material activity, without one-hundred-percent success, there is no profit. Ajāmila performed his duty in some percentage of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but the result he enjoyed at the end was one hundred percent, by the grace of the Lord. There is a nice verse in this connection in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: 'If someone gives up self-gratificatory pursuits and works in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and then falls down on account of not completing his work, what loss is there on his part? And, what can one gain if one performs his material activities perfectly?' (SB 1.5.17) Or, as the Christians say, 'What profiteth a man if he gain the whole world yet suffers the loss of his eternal soul?' Material activities and their results end with the body. But work in Kṛṣṇa consciousness carries the person again to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even after the loss of the body. At least one is sure to have a chance in the next life of being born again as a human being, either in the family of a great cultured brāhmaṇa or in a rich aristocratic family, that will give one a further chance for elevation. That is the unique quality of work done in Kṛṣṇa consciousness."
Prabhupāda: So everyone should join this movement and be sure of his activity, result, good result. That is real United Nations—to work in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Every, any department, if we work for Kṛṣṇa, then it is perfect. That is sure. And it is open to everyone. Now this American government is giving so much welfare contribution, but still they are not happy. Huge amount is spent in welfare activities, but still they are dissatisfied. Then how you can make them satisfied? The American government is practically giving money to the sufferers, and why they are still suffering? What is the answer?
Jackie Vaughn: It's not clear.
Jayādvaita: Their only objection, when we present that there's brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa, then they become automatically hostile, because they understand that we're against sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Sense gratification is animal civilization. And sense control is human civ.... Sense gratification is not human society. Sense gratification is not human civilization. That they do not know. Their central point is sense gratification. That is the defect. They are running on an animal civilization as human civilization. That is the defect. Sense gratification is animal civilization. And actually they are animals. If they can kill their own child, it is animal. Just like cats, dogs, they kill their own child. What is that? It is animal civilization. Who was talking that child is put into the, what is that, left luggage?
Hari-śauri: Left-luggage lockers. Trivikrama Mahārāja, in Japan. He said over two hundred thousand, uh, twenty thousand babies, they put them in a left-luggage locker and leave them.
Prabhupāda: Bus way station? Railway station? Leave luggage. Put it and lock it, then not coming back. Then when there is bad smell.... This is going on. This is simply animal civilization. Taking the last drop of milk from the cow and immediately send it to the slaughterhouse. They are doing like that. Before sending to the slaughterhouse, they draw out the last drop of milk from the cow. And immediately killing.
Prabhupāda: Polluted.
Jayādvaita: But then they don't accept that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the only process for understanding God. They want to maintain Christian religion, or.... Not Christian religion, but sense gratification and, at the same time, God consciousness.
Prabhupāda: Well we are not denying sense gratification. We want to regulate. That's all.
Mādhavānanda: Actually, we have the best sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: Hmm? Yes.
Mādhavānanda: On the radio program, one lady, she was asking questions. She was very envious. "And you are living in such a palace."
Prabhupāda: Why shall I not? Government servants, they live in the best place. We are Kṛṣṇa's servants, the supreme government. We must have the best car, best house, the best food, (laughter) everything. You are unfortunate, you are wretched, you cannot possess this. We are government's servants. Why the governor is living in the best house of the city?
Prabhupāda: They do not know even what are the problems of life. People are so uneducated, they do not know even what are the problems of life. They do not know. What generally people think the problems of life?
Hari-śauri: How to get more money, how to get more sense gratification. That's the main problem.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Your America has got so much money. Has it solved all the problems? Our Ambarīṣa Mahārāja will answer.
Ambarīṣa: What is the question, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Question is that your forefathers and fathers have got so much money, whether it has solved the problems of life?
Ambarīṣa: No, it hasn't solved any of their problems. It has multiplied them. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: He is the best.... He could have personally owned this palace and lived very luxuriously. He has got the means. But he did not like that. He gave it to the Vaiṣṇavas. So money cannot solve the problems. That is not possible.
Prabhupāda: We are taking precaution. The other fools, rascals, they are thinking, "What these people are doing? They are (indistinct) to have no this program, that," according to them. Just like our Vivekananda, he prescribed, daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā. The same thing—hospital. We kill all animals, and the hospital patient is given the meat for improvement of the health. But he does not know that this is not curing; he is become implicated in his karma. He has to be killed again, and eaten by the other animals. That he does not know. They do not accept karma-phala. Eh? The result of fruitive activities, (indistinct). But you will have to accept. There is no excuse. If you contaminate some disease, you must suffer from that disease. There is no excuse. So kriya(?) karma, you have to enjoy or suffer the result of karma. Karma-bandhana. But when you act for Kṛṣṇa, then you are mukta. Yajñārthāt karmaṇo 'nyatra loko yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). Karma must be there. If you work for Kṛṣṇa, then it is all right, and if you act for your sense gratification, then there is bondage. If you do not take education, if you remain fools and rascals, then you will suffer and create disturbance for others also. Therefore everyone must be educated, good citizens. It is good for him, good for others. (long pause) So you go on reading.
Prabhupāda: This is practice.
Pradyumna: "Gradually, step by step, with full conviction, one should become situated in trance by means of intelligence, and thus the mind should be fixed on the self alone and should think of nothing else." Purport: "By proper conviction and intelligence one should gradually cease sense activities. This is called pratyāhāra. The mind, being controlled by conviction, meditation, and cessation of the senses, should be situated in trance, or samādhi. At that time there is no longer any danger of becoming engaged in the material conception of life. In other words, although one is involved with matter, as long as the material body exists, one should not think about sense gratification. One should think of no pleasure aside from the pleasure of the Supreme Self. This state is easily attained by directly practicing Kṛṣṇa consciousness."
Kulādri: Śrīla Prabhupāda, before you said the patient has no intelligence.
Prabhupāda: Therefore he requires spiritual master's guidance. Because he is rascal. What is the use of accepting a spiritual master? If you want to be cured independently, what is the use of calling a physician, consulting a physician? You do it yourself. (pause) Whether our cows are left now? We don't find cows.
Prabhupāda: Why harassment? What is the fault?
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: (break) They are mostly godless, Śrīla Prabhupāda. They see us as a nuisance to the public. We are threatening their sense gratification.
Kīrtanānanda: What fault did Prahlāda have?
Prabhupāda: Sense gratification, we are refusing them?
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: We are threatening their sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: Hmm. So it is bad?
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: It is bad for their way of life. Just like Prahlāda was preaching to his school friends. And I think almost 20,000 big books so far.
Prabhupāda: "So far" means?
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Up to this month, for the first three weeks.
Hari-śauri: Means there's one more, one more week.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Nine days left.
Prabhupāda: What is your party doing?
Kīrtanānanda: What is what?
Prabhupāda: Your party, selling books?
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Kulaśekhara: At John Lennon's estate, remember? In London. You said to me, the tractor, you said, this is the cause of all the trouble. That it took all the work from the young men and they went to the city and became entangled in the sense gratification in the cities. So I've noticed in the city there's much more passion, but living in the country is simpler.
Prabhupāda: Yes, passion, there must be. When you have got the facility, naturally we are lusty, and when we have got the facility, then we take to it.
Kulaśekhara: The country is more peaceful. It's easier to think of spiritual life.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Less disease. Less brain taxing. Everything is less. So balance time, utilize for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And if you have got temple, it is very happy life. Just for your food work little, and balance time engage yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is ideal life. Just see minute fibers on the flower. Can anyone manufacture this? So small fibers. And how brilliant it is. If you study only one flower, you become God conscious. There is a machine which we call nature. From that machine, everything is coming. But how machine is perfect? And who has discovered this machine?
Prabhupāda: Hmm?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: He became like a hermit. He withdrew into himself. No one knew very much about him; he was very mysterious so far as his life with the public was concerned. But towards the end of his life he didn't live a very elaborate life of sense gratification at all. No one knew much about him at all.
Hari-śauri: This description is perfect, actually, because most of his fortunes they calculate he amassed by many illegal methods, like paying off police and fixing so many things up. With his money, he was always able to buy government officials and like this and get so many contracts to further the development of his aircraft companies and this and that.
Prabhupāda: He has manufactured airplanes?
Hari-śauri: Yes, he had something to do with airplanes. And also he had a lot of land in Las Vegas, this gambling city. So many... He was involved in many mysterious maneuvers. It's open in the newspapers, they said that he got most of his money from illegal methods.
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: In his old age he was very afraid of germs. He didn't want to catch any disease. So he would wear..., he would live in perfectly sealed rooms with all artificial air and light, so no germs could exist, and he would wear these...
Prabhupāda: He did not know that he's creating germs within his body.
Prabhupāda: Immediately, just see. And if you allow one second, he'll fill the whole body up by sucking the...Just see what is that nozzle and how quickly they can... There is no intelligence? The mosquito has better intelligence than any human being about his business. Therefore Prahlāda Mahārāja said sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā deha-yogena dehinām. That particular body, he is destined to enjoy a certain amount of sense gratification according to his body. Sarvatra labhyate daivād. God's arrangement is nice. He can get it. The mosquito is getting. He wanted to suck blood, so he has been given a teeny body, he can suck blood. Very little quantity. So arrangement is there. He'll satisfy his senses, daivād, by arrangement of God. So why you are endeavoring? Even it is there in the mosquito, even it is there in the tiger or any animal or man, it is already arranged. Why you are wasting time in that way? Simply sense gratification. Who will understand this philosophy? The fact is explained. That gentleman, Subramanya is very much appreciative.
Prabhupāda: So you cannot stop the suffering. You are unable. You are also suffering from the same disease. So don't say that jagat mithyā. If they are suffering, that's a fact. Then how do you say it is mithyā, it is false? If it is mithyā, then why you are affected by the suffering? There are so many questions. That means not realization. Contradictory. If you feel the suffering, then why you call it mithyā? It is fact. Why do you say it is mithyā? That means you have no realization. You are accepting suffering as mithyā. We say suffering is not mithyā, it is fact, but if you want to save from suffering, then you get out of this material world. We don't say that, that suffering is mithyā or this world is mithyā. We don't say that. We are offering this flower to Kṛṣṇa, not as mithyā; it is a means of service. Why shall I say it is mithyā? By offering... Kṛṣṇa says patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). By offering a little flower. How can I say this is mithyā? Māyāvādī's philosophy, it is mithyā. With mithyā we can approach the satya? By hundreds of false we can make one truth? Kṛṣṇa says that "If you offer Me a little flower," so how can I say this is mithyā? It is not mithyā. It is satya. When it is satya? When it is offered to Kṛṣṇa. And when you take it for your sense gratification, that is mithyā. That is mithyā. You cannot enjoy it. If you enjoy it, then go to hell. If you offer it to Kṛṣṇa, you go to Him. So how can I say it is mithyā? You cannot approach Kṛṣṇa with something mithyā. Then Kṛṣṇa becomes mithyā. There are so many things to be studied. We don't say like that. We find there is relationship of Kṛṣṇa with everything. When we find this beautiful rose, we find the intelligence of Kṛṣṇa. By Kṛṣṇa's intelligence it has come out so nice, fragrant, beautiful. They say it is made by nature. That is nonsense. Kṛṣṇa's says mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). So under Kṛṣṇa's direction nature has made it so beautiful. That is a fact. Therefore I find there is hand of Kṛṣṇa in this flower. So Kṛṣṇa has made this, this is Kṛṣṇa's property, it should be offered to Kṛṣṇa. That is bhakti. We are not offering something mithyā to Kṛṣṇa. It is fact.
Devotee: Sacrifice to Viṣṇu, to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That means to please Kṛṣṇa. If Kṛṣṇa is pleased He can change destiny. Karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti bhājāṁ (Bs. 5.54). Sacrifice means to please Kṛṣṇa, yajña. Yajña means to please Kṛṣṇa. The whole, our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to please Kṛṣṇa. That is the whole program. In all other business there is no question of pleasing Kṛṣṇa. When they declare war, one nation to another, there is no question of pleasing Kṛṣṇa. They're pleasing their whims. The two, big, big wars began, it was not for pleasing Kṛṣṇa. The Germans wanted that their sense gratification is being hampered by the Britishers, "Declare war." That means it was a war of sense gratification. "The Britishers are satisfying their sense gratification; we cannot do. All right, fight." So, there was no question of pleasing Kṛṣṇa. Hm. Then?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Question number three. It is said that the greatest strength of Hinduism is its catholicity, or breadth of outlook, broadness of vision, but that this is also the greatest weakness in that there is very little common prescribed religious observances which are obligatory for all as in other religions. Is it necessary and possible to outline certain basic minimum observances for all Hindus.
Prabhupāda: So far Vedic religion is concerned, it is not for the Hindus. That is to be understood. The sanātana-dharma. It is for all living entities, all human beings. It is called sanātana-dharma. That I have already explained. The living entity is sanātana, God is sanātana, and there is sanātana-dharma. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20). And where Kṛṣṇa is described sanātana in the Eleventh Chapter. Do you remember? He is described as sanātana. Sanātanam. So actually, the Vedic system is called sanātana-dharma. Not Hindu dharma. This is a wrong conception.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:
- kāmasya nendriya-prītir
- lābho jīveta yāvatā
- jīvasya tattva-jijñāsā
- nārtho yaś ceha karmabhiḥ
- (SB 1.2.10)
"Life's desires should never be aimed at gratifying the senses. One should desire to live only because human life enables one to inquire about the Absolute Truth."
Prabhupāda: That is the Vedānta-sūtra, athāto brahma jijñāsā. Here it is same thing explained, that don't be entrapped with these temporary bodily necessities of life, sense gratification. You must inquire about the Absolute Truth. In the next verse it is explained, vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvaṁ yaj jñānam (SB 1.2.11). Tattva. Tattva means truth. The truth is explained by the tattva-vit, one who knows the truth. How? Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate. He is explained as Brahman, as Paramātmā, or as Bhagavān. This is Vedānta-sūtra. Now one should learn what is Bhagavān, what is Brahman, what is Paramātmā. In this way one should make advancement of his spiritual consciousness. That is the purpose of Vedānta-sūtra.
Brahmatīrtha: He cited to me so many rules and regulations. They're not interested. They're interested in pleasing themselves. A man runs for government, his whole position to run for governor is to please himself so that he can become rich.
Prabhupāda: That's it. Here, you are right. Sense gratification. Nobody wants to do anything. Nixon captured the presidential post for his own satisfaction. And when the people found that "Here is a trick," they agitated and got him down. So this is the difficulty, that andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās the 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). We are blind and we are being guided by blind men. So the result is catastrophe.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Can I ask another question, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Question number nine. Is a guru essential to one to enter the spiritual path and attain the goal, and how does one recognize one's guru?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is explained, that guru is necessary. In the Bhagavad-gītā when Kṛṣṇa and Arjuna were talking as friend, there was no conclusion. The talking was going on but no conclusion was made. Therefore Arjuna decided to accept Kṛṣṇa as his guru. Find out this verse. Kārpaṇya-doṣopahata-svabhāvaḥ.
Prabhupāda: I was surprised that "How Ṛṣi Kumāra can fall down like this?" I had so confidence of this boy from the very beginning. He was so nice, so pure. And māyā is so strong. But could not do very well, māyā, very long. Thank Kṛṣṇa and... So stay with us. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31). This is Kṛṣṇa's mercy, special mercy. So always be calm and chant and pray to Kṛṣṇa. Don't spoil this life. It is so valuable. Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt. The sense gratification can be available in every life, cats and dogs also. Why should we sacrifice the greatest boon of human life? Hare Kṛṣṇa. So how are you?
Rādhāvallabha: Very good, Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: What news?
Rādhāvallabha: Seven-three was sent to the printer.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Rādhāvallabha: Seventh Canto, Volume Three, has been sent to the printer.
Prabhupāda: Seven-three? Oh. So our Ṛṣi Kumāra has come back.
Prabhupāda: They don't want to worship anyone. They want to worship their senses. That's all. Sense gratification. What is dictated by the senses, they agree to worship. Servant of the senses. In the material world nobody worships nobody. Everyone serves his own senses: "I like it." That's all. There is a Bengali song, yoke yadi lage phala kena dag botai(?). "If it satisfies my eyes, why shall I not see? I shall see." This is the sum-substance of... Yoke yadi lage phala kena dag bhajai.(?) Everyone wants sense gratification, to be servant of the senses. If the senses want "Do this," he will do it. And our movement is that we shall not hear the dictation of the senses; we shall do what Kṛṣṇa says. That is just opposite. So long I am carrying out the orders of the senses, then I am involved in this material birth, death, transmigration. Today I am running on this nice car. Next I can stand up here as a tree. Who can check it? After death you are completely under the... You are... Your life also completely under the laws of nature. So there is no discussion, no understanding, no knowledge about this. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We have to change our body. What kind of body we are going to get, nobody knows. This life is everything. This body is everything. Very risky. They do not inquire even wherefrom this body has come. They are also coming. They are also living. They are also eating. The trees, they are also eating water.
Rūpānuga: Everyone has accepted the wrong authority. Everyone has accepted the wrong authority.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because he's misled by sense gratification, so even he approaches a guru, if the guru cannot satisfy his senses, he doesn't like. Because he's under the subjugation of senses, he expects that guru also will satisfy his senses, then he is guru. If guru says something against his sense gratification, "Ah, he is not guru." (laughs) Guru also must be a person who can satisfy your senses. This is his sense gratification.
Vipina: After he took those books home and he read them, he wrote us a letter, and he said that he thought you were a very intelligent man and would like to speak to you. So we'll see. Maybe he can hear.
Prabhupāda: Yes, we are speaking something not of this world, but we are pointing out the defects of this world. "This world" means the world of sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: Yes, we are speaking something not of this world, but we are pointing out the defects of this world. "This world" means the world of sense gratification.
Vṛṣākapi: The karmīs, they say "What is the matter with sense gratification?" They say they like sense gratification; it's very good.
Prabhupāda: Very good, but if you can continue it. But you rascal, you cannot continue it. "Very good, I am now president," but why you are kicked out? Huh? Now, what about the Nixon? Very good, he was president, now he's kicked out, what is his position? He doesn't think that, that "I may be kicked out from my position at any moment. So what is the value of my sense gratification?" He was gratifying his senses. As he liked, he was doing. But now he's kicked out, what he can do now? Why does he not think that? Take the living example. Who wants to be kicked out from the presidency? But now he's kicked out. He's living also. He's not in that position. That Kruschev, he's not in that position. Why does he not think that "Any moment I'll be kicked out." And what is that enforcement that kicks out?
Vṛṣākapi: Why don't they think like that, Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness.
Prabhupāda: Simply you have to take so much trouble. That is Prahlāda Mahārāja's instruction. Sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā deha-yogena dehinām. The sense gratification, the standard of sense gratification, is deha-yogena dehinām, according to the body. The pig is eating very nicely stool because he has got a body like that. A human being will not take that. But the pleasure of eating, either stool or rasagullā, the same.
Rūpānuga: You gave the example of a gold pot and an iron pot and a diamond pot. A diamond pot was a demigod, and the gold pot was a human being, and the iron pot the animal. But they are thinking that the food is more palatable in a different pot. But it is still the same food.
Prabhupāda: But they are simply interested with the pots. External. Bahir-artha-māninaḥ. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye... (SB 7.5.31). They are thinking by changing the pot the advancement of civilization will increase. And that is going on. Just like America. You have got very big, big roads, nice cars, everything. You are changing the pot, but the eatable is the same.
Vṛṣākapi: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Not outside. Not like England, they have to import from... This is a very good example. Just like salt, we require. A little salt will increase the taste. But because it is absolutely necessary for eating, salt—everyone eats salt, nobody can avoid salt—it does not mean I shall eat too much. If I take this whole salt pot and put into..., "It is very good," that is foolishness. Similarly, sense gratification, so long we have got this material body, we require little. But because it is tasty, let us take it, whole pot, that is mistake. This is going on. This foolishness is going on. Sex life is good; simply take sex life, go on and spoil your whole life. That is going on. If everything is accepted in regulative principle, little salt, that's all, that's very nice. But as soon as you think "It is very nice. Let me take simply this," then it is spoiled. That is wanted. We don't reject anything but accept in a regular way. Flesh eaters? All right, you want flesh? "No, I want flesh, but I want this big cow." Why not less important animals? There are so many other animals. The goats are there, the lambs are there, the hogs are there. Take them. Why Kṛṣṇa says go-rakṣya? It is a very important animal. It will give you brain substance, this rasagullā. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says go-rakṣya. But this rascal has no knowledge. The cows give us milk, very nutritious. "Oh, eat the whole cow. Then all nutrition will come." This is their intelligence. Rubbish civilization. Why Kṛṣṇa has recommended go-rakṣya? He never said that other animal. If you are fond of eating flesh, you take other animals, not the cow. Give protection, take milk from it, and prepare nice preparations, that will be good for brain, for your mind. Apart from... There is no question of religious sentiment. From practical.
Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. There is another nonsense. Why they are checking the flow?
Vipina: The water is too rough for the boats to travel, so they made this artificial canal so boats could travel without getting wrecked, and they could transport their items of sense gratification in that way. They used to have mules that pulled the boats with ropes alongside here, these pathways, pulled them through the canal.
Prabhupāda: It will grow mosquitoes, mosquito plant.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Mosquitoes. When the devotees came back from India, many got malaria, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So I think we got to do something next year.
Prabhupāda: Get a mosquito curtain. That's all. Get a mosquito curtain. In India everywhere there is mosquito. I think in your country also.
Prabhupāda: If he does not know English, how he can translate?
Devotee (3): He knows English quite fluently, but he feels not so expert in it. He's developing his expertise for English too. (break)
Prabhupāda: Everyone is engaged in the business of sense gratification. Just like last night millions of men went to see the firework. So the firework as well as the people went to see there, the expenditure was very heavy, I think, total?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: You mentioned that with all of the cars going and what not, it probably amounted to about ten million dollars.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that petrol. But what was the purpose? The purpose was little sense gratification, "I shall see something illuminating." What was other purpose? No purpose. Simply to satisfy the eyes, to see something illuminating. That is one sense, eyes. Then there are other senses. They also want satisfaction. There are hands, there are legs, there are tongue, eyes, ears, nose. So every one, every one of these senses, they are engaged for sense satisfaction. So this is the life. But that sense satisfaction is differently exhibited for different bodies. Just like this firework, it was interesting to the human being. Human being has got a particular type of body, so it is interested to see the firework.
Mr. Loomis(?): Could I ask a question? I look at this room and my senses are gratified by this room, by that painting, by beautiful flowers, by the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa is pleasing to my ear, and I have to feel that my senses are able to help my spirit, or else there will not be this beauty in this room. But I don't understand very well when sense gratification is helpful and when it is not.
Prabhupāda: Sense gratification is never helpful. That is described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, that kāmasya nendriya-prītir (SB 1.2.10). Sense gratification is required as far as..., as little as possible. Otherwise, not for sense gratification. Just like sleeping. Sleeping is required because this material body requires some rest. But not that we shall sleep twenty-four hours or twenty hours and enjoy, as in this country sometimes they enjoy sleeping. But sleeping is wasting time. So long we shall sleep we cannot do anything good work. Therefore it should be minimized. You cannot avoid sleeping altogether. That is not possible. But it should be accepted to the minimum extent. That is not possible. But it should be accepted to the minimum extent. That is called tapasya, or advancement of spiritual life. Eating, sleeping, sex and defense. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna. They're required. So long we have got this body, we require to eat something, we require to sleep sometimes, we require a little sense gratification, and we require defense. But it should be minimized, not increased. That is tapasya. In the human life this is possible, this is possible. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **. One can conquer over these things, by practice. The more we minimize this āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna, this means we are advanced in spiritual taste.(?) It is practiced.
Prabhupāda: All other business subordinate. That is only, because you have got this body, material body, it requires little rest, little sense gratification, little eating, little sleeping. We don't say stop it completely. That is not possible. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya, as far as it is required. As little as possible. That is spiritual advancement. If we make our progressive life engaged in understanding Kṛṣṇa instead of devoting in these unnecessary things, that is real life. That is real human life. The Vedic civilization is that. We find Vyāsadeva writing so exalted books, but life was very simple. People are, now in the modern civilization, people are accustomed only to the comforts of the body. Not for spiritual advance. That is the defect of modern civilization. (break)
Devotee (4): Śrīla Prabhupāda, no matter what material body you have, by material nature given you, one of the most predominating features of material life is pain. I want to address myself to this question, because in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we frequently face this problem. We have the pain of, for example, if you do tapasya, that's a pain to deprive your body of sense gratification. If you don't have sleep, you have to force yourself. If you have sickness, mental disturbances, so many things, then there's the other kind of pain.
Prabhupāda: That is being explained, that we don't want to stop sleeping, but minimize it. That is being already explained. We don't say complete negation. No. Yuktāhāra-vihārasya. Simply sleep as little as possible. Not that to take, just like in the Western countries, they take sleeping as enjoyment. Is it not?
Prabhupāda: Just explain.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Too fallen to follow the regulative principles is like saying a diseased man is too diseased to take medicine. So it's actually in our own self interest. We have to become enlightened, to understand what our real interest is. Yajña vai viṣṇu. Now we are thinking that our real interest is to gratify the senses. This is perishable. When we come to the understanding of ātmā, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, then we understand that our real self interest is to follow these regulative principles. As Prabhupāda said, in the beginning it may be painful, undoubtedly, because we are, for so many lifetimes addicted to sense gratification, but gradually more and more ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam (CC Antya 20.12), when the heart becomes cleansed from the dirty misidentification with this gross and subtle material body, gradually more and more it becomes favorable (indistinct). Kṛṣṇa says, "Be happy by this sacrifice." Therefore the sacrifice must be joy-producing, ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam. Simply that because we're presently in diseased condition, it may appear to be displeasing. Prabhupāda gives the example of someone who has jaundice. In the jaundice state, when you take sugar it appears very bitter. The perception is very bitter. But everyone knows that sugar is sweet. So in the same way, the regulative principles are naturally painful for someone who is irregular. For.... Engaged in bodily identification of life. But gradually it becomes more and more pleasing.
Prabhupāda: Practical.
Devotee: When we have Kṛṣṇa conscious (indistinct) struggling for(indistinct). It has to be a struggle.
Prabhupāda: What is struggle? Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, dance and take prasādam.
Prabhupāda: When they clear the land, we are going to construct a nice building for the school. As soon as it is done, then we will organize. Kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān... (SB 7.6.1). From the very beginning of life, this Bhāgavata principle should be trained. That is perfect. Brahmacārī guru-kule vasan dānto guror hitam (SB 7.12.1). They should be trained up how to read at the house of the spiritual master. They should be trained up how to control the senses, dānta. Dānta means to practice how to control the senses. That is the difference between human being and animal. Animal cannot be trained up how to control their senses. That is not possible. But a human being can be trained up to control his senses. The yoga practice is meant for controlling the sense. Yoga-indriya-saṁyamī. That is the real yoga practice, not that I indulge in sense gratification as I like, and I become a yogi. This is all bogus. This is not yoga. Yoga means how to control the senses. Then I can concentrate my mind towards God realization and self-realization. If my senses are always disturbing, it is not possible to apply my mind for self-realization. That is not possible. Therefore the yoga practice, preliminary practice, is yama-niyama, controlling, niyama, under regulative principles. They are all described in the Sixth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā and other Vedic literature also. And the ultimate end of yoga practice is to think of Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection of yoga. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1). By meditation, he always thinks... This morning I was walking near the (indistinct) falls, I told, "This is the best place for practicing yoga." Yoga cannot be practiced in a fashionable way in a big city with (indistinct) meditation. That is not possible. He must be free from everything, and in a secluded place, alone, he should meditate on the Supreme Lord. That is real yoga. Controlling all the senses, all disturbances of the mind. Then it is perfect yoga. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā paśyanti yaṁ yoginaḥ (SB 12.13.1).
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This Kṛṣṇa consciousness is a spiritual culture, and basically speaking the human society begins from dharma, or accepting the principle of God. Dharma begins with this acceptance of the principle of God, that human beings, their activities, have to be regulated. Just like in human society there is marriage. This is according to scripture. Every scripture regulates there must be marriage. This is dharma. It regulates certain activities that should be done, certain activities that should not be done. And basically speaking this is the beginning of human civilization; otherwise, they're simply living in a civilization of gross sense gratification which is in reality no different or no better than the society of animals. So from dharma, human society begins and generally... You can see practically that dharma generally focuses... People are taking that dharma is for the basis of economic development. This is proven practically because in pioneer times in America for example, people they were simple going to churches and synagogues, and temples and all kinds of things, what have you. And economic development was going on very nicely, in fact, economic development could not have gone on unless there was this principle of religion. People were very, practically speaking... In a pioneer situation people are very barbaric, struggle for existence—you know, you're in the country, there is no road, there's no cities—everyone is very, simply interested to maintain themselves. But by churches and things of this nature, people saw the need for a civilized give-and-take way of living—economic development. Then gradually, the ideas developed further and further, but in modern days we can see that people are having economic developments and there's no need for God, they think at least. In other words, people are no longer attending churches, synagogues, things of this nature, because they are making sufficient money without the need of religion. Therefore, the basic principle is being missed that human life is not simply meant for economic development. Human life—we analyze, we can say that...
Prabhupāda: Human life is meant for making a solution of all material problems.
Prabhupāda: There is an example. In a water tank you throw one stone. It becomes a circle. And the circle expands, expands, expands unless the circle comes to the shore. Similarly our loving affair begins from personal self to family, from family to society, community, nation, international. But still, it is imperfect unless the circle reaches to the lotus feet of God. Then it is satisfied. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce (CC Madhya 22.42). Here, any loving affairs, that is more or less lusty. A man or woman love each other with some desire, not without desire. That desire is sense gratification. But actually that is lust not love. Pure love can be exchanged in relationship with God. Here there are temporary... A boy, a girl or a man, a woman in relationship of love but it breaks as soon as the lusty desire is not fulfilled. So here there is no question of love. It is all lusty desire. Real love can be achieved when it is exchanged with Kṛṣṇa or God. Premā pum-artho mahān, that is the recommendation given by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. That is the highest (indistinct) when we come on the loving platform with God, then we are satisfied. Big, big political leaders in our country like Mahatma Gandhi, he loved his country so much. But the result was that he was killed by his own men, by his country men. But this is not possible when the love is exchanged between God. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31), a little love for God can save you from the greatest danger of life. That is real love. So if you love Kṛṣṇa, then you can love with everyone.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, could it be said that in a society where stress is placed on developing this understanding of God, people would naturally become disinclined for these so-called modern activities of sense gratification?
Prabhupāda: That is the best qualification. If he becomes disinterested with these so-called modern civilized activities, that is the perfection of life. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhavo viraktir anyatra caiṣa (SB 11.2.42). Bhakti means the more you become God conscious, you become disinterested with these material activities. And that is needed, because material activities means you are wasting our time. What is the value of animal life? It is risky. If we become like animal, then we'll become animal next birth. Yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvaṁ tyajaty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). At the time of death, the mind's position will give me another body. That is nature's law. That you do not know. There is no education how the body is being transferred, how the soul is transferred to different bodies. And there are 8,400,000 different forms of body, and at the time of death, according to our mentality, we have to accept by nature's law a type of body which may not be human body. That we do not know. There is no education. The people are kept in darkness about the laws of nature. That is a very risky civilization.
Prabhupāda: Ah, killing experts.
Kīrtanānanda: This civilization is that "If you cause a little disturbance to my sense gratification, I will kill you."
Prabhupāda: But there is civilization. I saw it practically, that there is no disturbance in our Pennsylvania farm. The cats, the dogs, the cows, the boys, children, they are living like family. In your farm also. Wonderful. The cats are not afraid of the dogs. It is very peaceful. (break)
Hṛdayānanda: They are showing paintings from a museum in Spain.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: (break) ...posters advertising Ratha-yātrā.
Prabhupāda: Hmm? Yes. (break)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: ...pure devotee will also come here and therefore he's (indistinct) bringing for you.
Prabhupāda: Yes, Caitanya Mahāprabhu goes with His associates, He does not go alone. Sa-pārṣadam. Sāṅgopāṅgāstra-pārṣadam.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa has sent you His grain. You cannot waste it. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Live that way. And Kṛṣṇa is providing so much facilities for becoming Kṛṣṇa conscious, and why should we deviate and spoil this life, take the risk of again going into the cycle of birth and death? Commonsense affair. We have got the good, greatest opportunity to solve this problem of repetition of birth. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). And only for little sense gratification we are going to sacrifice so great opportunity of life? This much education is wanted. Na sadhu manye yata ātmano 'yam. Eh? Find out the verse, Fifth Canto. Fifth Canto, Fifth Chapter. Na sadhu manye yata atmano 'yam asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-prītaya āpṛṇoti (SB 5.5.4). Very bad civilization. Mad civilization, pramattaḥ. Simply for little sense gratification they are prepared to take so much risk. Next life you may become cat, dog or a small grass or a tree by laws of nature. So nūnaṁ pramattaḥ. Is it Fifth Canto?
Bhagavān: Ṛṣabhadeva.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: No, we are asking that use this microphone for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness, not for sense gratification.
Mike Robinson: Not for?
Prabhupāda: Sense gratification.
Devotees: Sense gratification, pleasing the senses.
Mike Robinson: Oh, thank you.
Prabhupāda: That is the.... The microphone is the same. And the politician can speak all nonsense, and the so-called scientist may speak all nonsense of going to the Mars planet, but we don't talk all nonsense.
Mike Robinson: If we could just put one more tape on it. No, if I can explain to you, the question I am trying to ask, which I'm finding difficulty to explain. Obviously, the members of the movement who are here have made a definite sort of decision that you've decided, they've decided, for instance, to dress differently, and they're dressing now in what would appear to be an Indian style. Is it necessary to do that, or could I carry on being a member of a radio station and still be a member of the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, everything is devotional. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanaṁ viṣṇoḥ smaraṇaṁ pāda-sevanam (SB 7.5.23), there are varieties. We are not Māyāvādī, impersonalists, finished, all business. It is not like that. So whatever business is going on in our movement, everything should be taught according to the capacity, boys or girls, it doesn't matter. Some department is suitable for the boys, some department are suitable for the girls. In this way, they should be trained up. But everyone should be trained up to give service. That is Gurukula. And brahmacārī, this sex impulse should be controlled. That ruins the whole character. Our big, big sannyāsīs are becoming victimized. So that is the danger. Woman is good, man is good; when they combine together, bad. This is the material world. Both of them are good, but when they combine together, they are bad. This is material world. In the spiritual world, there is no such combination of sense gratification. Therefore it is always good. Everyone is part and parcel of God. So they are good. In the spiritual world, they combine together, it becomes bad, in the material world. In the spiritual world there is no such combination of sense gratification. Therefore they are always good.
Hari-śauri: Development.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Society and economic condition, everything should be so arranged that this human child should be gradually pushed for perfection of life, go back home, back to Godhead. This is civilization. And modern civilization is "Don't care for what is going to happen. So long you live, eat, drink, be merry, enjoy," that's all. Sense gratification. This is called nāstika-vāda. Very dangerous. And that is going on all over the world. How a gentleman can live in that society?
Hari-śauri: They can't. Gradually people...
Prabhupāda: Therefore my Guru Mahārāja used to say, "This is not a place for a gentleman." Formerly, therefore, they used to go away from the society, go in the forest, to give up this bad association. Live alone.
Hari-śauri: Practically speaking, that's what we've done. By your establishing these temples, it's given us someplace to go where we can get out of Kali-yuga.
Prabhupāda: Therefore our temples should be very carefully managed. It may not become again another pandemonium.
Pradyumna: "Only the material body of the indestructible, immeasurable and eternal living entity is subject to destruction."
Prabhupāda: Yes, the body's destructible, but the spirit soul is not destructible. When you understand this point, then we understand what is spirit, and then spiritual culture begins. Without being convinced of this spirit soul, there is no question of spiritual culture. So the spirit soul is described as eternal. And the proof is given, eternity. Just like there are so many children. They'll grow up from childhood to boyhood, from boyhood to youthhood. The body is changing. This is very practical. But the spirit soul is there, the same spirit soul which was within the womb of the mother in a small body. Then coming out of the mother's womb, the same spirit soul is there, but the body is different. In this way, the body is being situated in different status, but we know that the proprietor of the body is the same. Is there any difficulty to understand? Anyone? The body is changing, that's a fact. You are young man. You'll have to become an old man like me. That means body will change. But so far you are concerned, you are the same. So, the body changes and the spirit soul remains the same. This is to be understood first of all. What is the difficulty? First of all, you must distinguish what is spirit, what is matter. Material culture means this body is there, it requires some necessities. The body must be given something to eat. Is it not? Eating? Then the body must be given some rest, sleeping, for which we require some apartment, some place. Not we, but also even the animals, birds, they have got their nest, or the animal has got some hole or something. So eating, sleeping, and some sense gratification, sex. These are bodily necessities.
Ali: The way I look at it, it's better to talk about God than to talk about...
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is good. One must be serious, that we are talking about God, so what is my God realization? That is nice. Otherwise, if I go on life after life talking about God and there is no God realization... That is going on. Śrama eva hi kevalam.
- dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ
- viṣvaksena-kathāsu yaḥ
- notpādayed yadi ratiṁ
- śrama eva hi kevalam
- (SB 1.2.8)
We are talking of God, but instead of loving God, we are loving this body. So that is not practical. That is simply waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam. If one does not become enthused to love God, then simply talking about God is a waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam. That is going on all over the world. Somebody's Hindu, somebody's Christian, somebody's Muhammadan, they are going to the church, they are going to the mosque, they are going to the temple, everything is going on, but when you ask whether you love God or dog, he'll say, "I love dog." Practically we see. Everyone is keeping a dog, very favorite pet. And in church, they'll talk of God, but practically they love the dog. Is it not? This is going on, in the name of religion, that's all. Therefore Bhāgavata says it is simply waste of time. What is the use of talking God? If by talking of God perpetually you are developing your love for dog, then what is the use? Śrama eva hi kevalam. It is simply waste of time. These are all discussed. Regularly going to the church, regularly going to the mosque or temple, but the love is for material things, not for God. How I get money, how I get motorcar, how I get dog, how I get nice wife, how I get nice—the love is here. The example is given, just like a vulture. The vulture goes very, very high, four miles high, five miles. But his business is to find out where there is a corpse, where there is a corpse. Very highly elevated, but business is to find out a dead body. And as soon as he finds it... (hand motion indicating sweeping down) So this is going on. Very religious, very regularly performing religious ceremonies, rituals, but the business is where is a corpse. "Come on, here is some sense gratification." This is going on. If you are talking of God, then you must love God. That is progress. But there is no love of God, there is love of something else, so what is the use of talking about.
Prabhupāda: Want..., we want that, if you want me to do like you, then I want you to do like me. If you want me to accept your proposal, why you not accept my proposal?
Jñānagamya: Because if I think that sense gratification is better, then I...
Prabhupāda: That's all right, you think sense gratification is better, I think sense gratification is bad.
Jñānagamya: How can we tell the difference?
Prabhupāda: No, there is difference. Why you want me to do like you? Then I shall want you to do like me.
Jñānagamya: I say it because I want you to enjoy sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: No, I am not going to accept you, because you are not accepting my principles, so why shall I accept your principles?
Jñānagamya: But your principle is austere, it's not...
Prabhupāda: So that you say.
Jñānagamya: That's what they say.
Prabhupāda: They say, but we say you are bad that you are enjoying simply sense gratification.
Jñānagamya: They say what is wrong?
Prabhupāda: No, what is wrong to us. It is your judgement that we are wrong. So my judgement you are wrong. Who will decide who is right? Eh? Ātreya Ṛṣi?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: If you judge me I am wrong, I am judging you are wrong. So if you don't want me to do like this, I also don't want you, then where is the decision?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Actually, these people mentally understand that sense gratification is wrong, but they are so polluted.
Prabhupāda: No, for argument's sake.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Mental platform.
Prabhupāda: If you want me to do like you, I also want you to do like me. You cannot find fault with me by saying that I am not acting like you, sense gratification. If you are acting in your way, I am acting in my way.
Jñānagamya: It's relative.
Prabhupāda: But if you want philosophy, the aim of life, the destination of life, then we can talk, what is the destination of life, what is required. If you criticize me, then I can criticize you also.
Prabhupāda: But you said they do not like it.
Jñānagamya: No, I never said they do not like it.
Prabhupāda: You said that sense gratification. How they'll appreciate?
Jñānagamya: They will appreciate, it is something new, it is very different, it is very beautiful and attractive.
Prabhupāda: Of course, I cannot understand. What is the favorable condition of film?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Jñānagamya prabhu is interested in making a very big film.
Prabhupāda: What is the subject matter?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: The subject matter is devotees in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. How they learn, how they study, how they go on saṅkīrtana.
Prabhupāda: They are seeing already.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: So, is he, does he have any sincerity?
Prabhupāda: No, I don't think.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: He has no sincerity. We should not encourage him to come here.
Prabhupāda: No, no. He's after sense gratification. He requested you?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes.
Prabhupāda: What he'll do?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Well, I thought that he's a devotee and I should engage him, we should engage him here. But of course, if he's not sincere...
Prabhupāda: He's trying to get such opportunities. He's requesting so many, "Take me here, take me there."
Ātreya Ṛṣi: So I should not do it because we will have problem. We would be in anxiety here.
Prabhupāda: He came to Vṛndāvana for the purpose of devotion, but he had some other motive.
Prabhupāda: That is bhakti. Just like Arjuna, he was a soldier but he fought for Kṛṣṇa. That is a military art. For his personal, he refused, "No, no, I am not going to fight with my relatives." But when he understood that Kṛṣṇa wants it, he did it. So anything, if we dovetail with Kṛṣṇa's service, that becomes bhakti. (indistinct) Just like Kṛṣṇa is saying, patraṁ puṣpaṁ phalaṁ toyaṁ yo me bhaktyā prayacchati (BG 9.26). Anyone who is offering in devotion a little leaf, little flower, little water, "I accept." So Kṛṣṇa is not poverty-stricken that He wants from me something but He wants your bhakti, that you become a devotee, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto. He wants that. So if the poorest man also gives something in bhakti, Kṛṣṇa accepts it. So that does not mean that I have got money, Kṛṣṇa is satisfied with little flower, so give little flower to Kṛṣṇa and enjoy this money for my sense gratification. (chuckles) That is cheating. That is cheating. Kṛṣṇa says, "Whatever you do, kuruṣva tad mad-arpaṇam, give Me that," and that is bhakti. So whatever position we may be in, if our life is dedicated to Kṛṣṇa, that is bhakti. That is bhakti, it doesn't matter what is his status, qualification. Kṛṣṇa is unlimitedly everything. Just like we are spending lakhs and crores in this, for this purpose.
Prabhupāda: He is to be punished. His misusing. Suppose in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement somebody gives us money. He is giving good faith that "It is very good organization." But if I misspend that money, then I am responsible. Then I'll be punished. His business is finished. Kṛṣṇa noted that he has given his hard-earned money for spreading Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If I take that money... Instead of doing Kṛṣṇa consciousness, if I use it for my sense gratification, then I'll be... Then I'll be responsible. What is the use of Kṛṣṇa's money being used in industry? Any purpose outside Kṛṣṇa consciousness... Let this money be utilized for spreading the glories of Kṛṣṇa. But they do not recognize Kṛṣṇa. All the so-called Bhagavad-gītā readers, they want to kill Kṛṣṇa.
Gargamuni: Yes, that's a fact. The Calcutta plan that you had, it is still under consideration. At first the Calcutta corporation refused, but then Abhirāma saw the Minister of Municipal Affairs, Mr. Subata Mukerji.
Prabhupāda: So I gave the meaning.
Prabhupāda: Therefore, Bhagavān concludes at the end, "You rascal, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66)." This is dharma. To surrender to the Lord. That is dharma. In another place, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6). Without this, all cheating. If there is no bhakti, surrender to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, all these kind of dharmas, they're all cheating. Therefore in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2). On this, Śrīdhara Svāmī has commented, atra mokṣa vañca api nirastam.(?) Dharma artha kāma mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90). So according to this principle, they're all cheating. So-called religious system, artha, economic development, sense gratification. Just like that, we have created so many social dharmas. Saṁsāra-dharma, gṛhastha-dharma, this dharma, that dharma. So in that way, they're all-cheating. Therefore, our request is that yajñārthe karmaṇaḥ anyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). In the Bālajī's temple, mostly poor cultivators. I have seen, they go. And they want to give something to the Lord. Yajñārthe. So the karmīs, they're advised, yat karoṣi kuruṣva tad mad arpaṇam. "Give me." So these karmīs, somehow or other, by their great fortune, they're giving something to the Lord. Yajñārthe. That money should not be utilized for any other purpose. That is our message. It must be utilized for the purpose to fulfill the mission of the Lord. Mission of the Lord is sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66). How people can be trained up to give up all these nonsensical type of dharma, and how to become a devotee of Lord. For this purpose this money should be spent. Then it will be all right.
Prabhupāda: They can. They'll not accept the process. They can. Everyone. Otherwise why these brahmacārīs? Just to be trained. That's all. By training we can find so many brahmacārīs. Just like by training you have given up so many things. You were accustomed to this illicit sex and meat-eating and... But you have given up. But why? By training. So if we request the government, "Let us open this brahmacārī..." They'll not help. But they'll make the other propaganda. They'll make contraceptive method, and naturally one Hindu widow is trained up not to marry again. Once she got a husband, that's all right. Now you convert your, you divert your attention to Kṛṣṇa. They'll make propaganda. "Why stop her sense gratification? Let her marry again, widow marriage." Why widow marriage? If there is voluntarily giving up begetting any more child, to avoid husband, why the widow marriage bill is introduced? Everything was natural, brahmacārī. The sterilization is already there. That will not be accepted. Widow, she's remaining refrained from. Just like we have now asked our girls not to dress attractively, widow. They should dress not attractively. Because after all, what is this sex enjoyment? It is not very good thing. By outward attraction they attract. Nice sari, nice,—one becomes attracted. Therefore this is psychology, that if the woman does not dress very nicely, she will not be attractive. Unnecessarily attraction she will avoid. But a woman is naturally, her psychology is dress very nicely so that man may be attracted. Because they want shelter. This is the whole psychology. They, although they declare independence, they cannot live independently. That is not possible. Therefore they are by nature accustomed to dress attractively so that one may accept her and give her shelter. This is psychology. Otherwise, why the woman are naturally inclined to dress herself nice. Man does not. This is the psychology.
Prabhupāda: Can read it, yes.
Hari-śauri: My son Daniel, Sravananda Das, entered the Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement almost 5 years ago. The only request that he made of me and my husband was that we read about the Hare Kṛṣṇa philosophy and try to understand his new way of life. My husband and I have read everything we could find about the movement and the philosophy. We have visited the Hare Kṛṣṇa Centers in Philadelphia and New York frequently, always speaking to the devotees and having our questions answered. Evidently these youths feel a revulsion towards the sense gratification of forbidden permissive values of our society. When I see how happy the devotees are..."
Prabhupāda: Haṁsadūta, Haṁsadūta?
Hari-śauri: Haṁsadūta?
Prabhupāda: The Ceylon is educated and if they are receiving, why not open a branch?
Prabhupāda: So is it not credit? We spend for God. We are servant of God. We want to see God gorgeously situated, and for us we have no comforts, we don't care for any comfort. We simply spend minimum just to keep the body and soul together, that's all. This is our principle. We don't spend a farthing for our sense gratification. This should be noted down if some case is there, this should be presented. We don't go to restaurant, we don't go to cinema, we don't spend lavishly for dress or something else, no. Neither for furniture (laughter). Eh? If you sit down in a, a pad is that faulty?
Hari-śauri: Then when they go to any of our temples, they're amazed because we don't...
Prabhupāda: We sit down, don't use any chair, any couches, unnecessarily, carpet. What expenditure? We have no expenditure for personal self. And still you are faulty? What can be done? We don't purchase any cosmetic, this clay tilaka is sufficient. We don't apply any pomade or cosmetic or ointment. Either for our girls or ourselves. We don't do that, we live very simply. After 15 days we shave, there is no use of cutting or decorating. Note down all these things. We have no doctor's bill even.
Prabhupāda: About the gosvāmīs it is said, nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **, sleeping, and eating, and sense enjoyment conquered. So no sleeping, no eating and no sense gratification, that is perfection. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau cātyanta-dīnau. Hm.
Hari-śauri:
- tribhir guṇamayair bhāvair
- ebhiḥ sarvam idaṁ jagat
- mohitaṁ nābhijānāti
- mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam
- (BG 7.13)
"Deluded by the three modes (goodness, passion, and ignorance), the whole world does not know Me, who am above the modes and inexhaustible."
Prabhupāda: Here is the disease, material disease. They are being carried away by the three modes of material nature. Hm? It is explained further that puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi bhuṅkte... (BG 13.22). Hm.
Devotee (2): Bhuṅkte prakṛti-jān guṇān.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Guṇān. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya.
Devotee (3): Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya, sad-asad-yoni...
Prabhupāda: Sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. Hm? Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi (BG 13.22). So, this is a big purport about this? How big...?
Hari-śauri: About one page. Tribhir guṇamayair bhāvaiḥ?
Prabhupāda: Hm.
Prabhupāda: Bechel (?). So we want so many men to live there nicely, to eat sumptuously, and preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I have seen while coming from Vṛndāvana to Delhi, hundreds and thousands of young men. They are going to the factories on cycle, coming from distant place, at least twenty miles, twenty-five miles, and it takes two hours to reach the factory or more than that. And there he works hard eight hours and then again goes back, two hours, three hours, on cycle. I do not know what kind of rest he takes. This is life. And if we request these young men that "You come here. You live here comfortably. You eat here sumptuously and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa," they will not. Just see how unfortunate they are. Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ (SB 1.1.10). This is Kali-yuga. All bad men, unfortunate and disturbed. This is the position. They will work so hard, they'll catch daily passenger trains, Calcutta, Bombay, I have seen. They are actually hanging, and some of them are falling down, lost life, and coming from hundred miles away. But still, if you ask him that "You come here. Live with us. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." Even with your family you can come." We are doing that at Māyāpur. He will not. How strong sense gratification propensity is. This is position of Kali-yuga. They are making propaganda, ruṭi kāpar makān. So we are giving, "Come on, ruṭi, makān, kāpar, you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." "No. I want wine. I want meat. I want rundi (?)." This is going on. Simply they say, "Ruṭi, kāpar, makān." But no, they want wine, woman, and sense pleasure, that's all. Ruṭi, kāpar, makān is not difficult. You can get. But they want something more. You see how many advertisements for selling wine in your Hyderabad. Is that, ruṭi, kāpar, makān?
Prabhupāda: So that cannot be. So traveling means you have asked him to...?
Haṁsadūta: No, I haven't asked him any... It's the same problem. Whenever I go somewhere there are always certain men; they want to go.
Prabhupāda: No. Nobody can go without sanction. This is sense gratification, "I want to." This is not good.
Jagadīśa: The temple right now is in lack of a full time manager. Mahāṁśa Mahārāja spends most of his time here, and I can see that the temple management is not going right.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Not very nice. So do you require...? But you also do not remain here.
Mahāṁśa: No.
Prabhupāda: Then you are not there; you are not here. Then where you are?
Mahāṁśa: No, all these last, last two weeks I've been working on this house and if I'm not here then... Like yesterday I was not here, and the workers didn't work properly. Then I made them work in the night. When I came back, I saw that they have not...
Prabhupāda: So that means everywhere, if you are not there, then everything is gone to hell. Then what is this management? You cannot be everywhere. That is not... You are not Kṛṣṇa. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānām (BG 18.61).
Prabhupāda: They say that there is a tissue in the brain, they disturb with this religious idea. They say like that. And if that tissue is operated then there will be no more religion. They can do that. With a brain operation he'll forget willfully. These rascal, so-called scientists, they can do anything.
Jagadīśa: There are some psychiatrists who are on our side though. So if we can rally their support... The whole thing is so emotional and based on this strong appeal by the scientists and leaders to avoid religion because of the distraction from sense gratification, that all of the charges against us are completely baseless. There's no foundation. And if we just carefully and with calculation expose all of their nonsense accusations, it will be a great victory. Especially now it has become such a national issue that the leaders of society have to become involved, otherwise they'll become implicated. They have to come out and say whether they support the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Prabhupāda: But they're supporting.
Jagadīśa: They must support it. Actually, I'm sure that they're astonished to find out how intelligent all the devotees are. The devotees are the most intelligent people.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa yei bhaje sei baḍa catura. Then, what other letters.
Prabhupāda: Now, a Tiger? Your grandson?
Indian man: Tiger. (Gujarati)
Prabhupāda: No, he is... He is tiger? Ācchā. Thank you. Hm. Go on.
Jagadīśa: People are lazy and unfortunate. They have no knowledge. And besides that, they are misled by foolish leaders. The leaders are intent only on deriving sense gratification from their so-called high position. In the Bhāgavatam also it is explained that men who are like dogs, hogs, camels and asses praise those men who do not glorify the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is a civilization of fools, a fool's paradise where the common people are allowed to elect from amongst them one so-called leader who is the biggest rascal because he doesn't know anything, and none of the others, the common, people know anything about the purpose of life, and yet this so-called leader becomes elected on the basis that he can do something to help suffering humanity. The material existence is nothing but a struggle against material nature which ultimately has no value. But it's an illusory struggle because of the spirit soul...
Prabhupāda: Why it has no value?
Jagadīśa: Because there is no...
Prabhupāda: He'll not say that is has no value. You must give the reason why it has no value.
Prabhupāda: So explain with that purpose. At least, they are sensible. (break) You cannot give up these four things: yajña, dāna, tapasya. So yajña for the brahmacārīs, begin yajña. And dāna for the gṛhasthas, and tapasya for the sannyāsīs. Yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-karma na tyājyam, Kṛṣṇa says. Do not give up this. "I have become sannyāsī, therefore I'll give up my tapasya also." Sannyāsī means the life of tapasya. If you give up tapasya also then what remains? How you become a sannyāsa? Yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-karma na tyājyaṁ kāryam eva tat. It must be continued. And again He stresses yajño dānaṁ tapaś caiva pāvanāni manīṣiṇām. Even if you think that you have become very great, "Now I'm very exalted personality. I don't require. I have become paramahaṁsa," No, no, no, no. This yajña-dāna-tapaḥ-karma, even if you are very exalted, still, it will purify you more, these things. Yajño dānaṁ tapaś caiva pāvanāni manīṣiṇām. In any condition of life these things cannot be given up. So those who are in sense, gṛhasthas, they must give in charity, at least fifty percent of their income. That was shown by Rūpa Gosvāmī. He, fifty percent. Dānam means not to the daridra-nārāyaṇa. Dānam means to the brāhmaṇa, Vaiṣṇava. In our śāstra charity is recommended to be given to the high-class men, brāhmaṇas and Vaiṣṇavas. They know how to spend money. Therefore dātavyam iti yad dānaṁ tad dānaṁ sāttvikam ucyate. Just like this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, they are appreciating. So all the charity should come here. Then it is properly utilized. Because we do not use a single paisa for anything of sense gratification. We do not even smoke, we do not take tea, we lie down on the floor. Not a single paisa is spent for our sense gratification. Everything is utilized for Kṛṣṇa. Therefore all charity should come here. Properly spent. But if we misspend, that is our fault. Single paisa we spend for our sense gratification, that is fault of us. And people should give at least fifty percent of their income to this movement. Twenty-five percent to the family and twenty-five percent let him keep for himself in case of emergency.
Prabhupāda: Everyone is after sense gratification. No vairāgya. And he's in knowledge. His qualification is like dog and he has become a man of knowledge. (break)
Indian man: To go to Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Finish this.
Pradyumna: Asaktir anabhiṣvaṅgaḥ putra-dāra-gṛhādiṣu.
Prabhupāda: Ah. Asaktir anabhiṣvaṅgaḥ putra-dāra-gṛha. Everyone is attached. And this is ignorance. This is illusion. That developed society, community, nationality. But what is that? That attachment. But that attachment has to be taken away. That is knowledge. But we are teaching people how to become more and more attached in the name of Communism, Socialism, this ism, that ism, nationalism. These things are not given. The truth in all this means increasing putra-dāra-gṛhādiṣu. Not asakti but āsakti. Increasing ignorance. Then?
Pradyumna: Nityaṁ ca sama-cittatvam iṣṭāniṣṭopapattiṣu.
Prabhupāda: Nityaṁ ca sama-cittatvam. We should not be disturbed by this worldly disturbance. Tāṁs titikṣasva bhārata. Real business is how to stop this birth, death, old age and disease. But they are not concerned with these things. They are simply disturbed with little temporary discomfort.
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Hmm. Go on.
Jagadīśa: Sthairyam ātma-vinigrahaḥ, indriyārtheṣu vairāgyam anahaṅkāra eva ca.
Prabhupāda: Indriyārtheṣu vairāgyam, not to indulge in sense gratification, not to dress himself as a sādhu, as a swami.
Yogi Amrit Desai: Not external.
Prabhupāda: He's servant of his senses, and he has become a swami. Just see how cheating it is.
Yogi Amrit Desai: That's the real meaning.
Prabhupāda: Swami means who is the controller of the senses.
Yogi Amrit Desai: Master of the senses.
Prabhupāda: Senses. So instead of swami, he is servant of his senses, and he is preaching as swami. These swamis go to the foreign countries. Indriyārtheṣu vairāgyam.
Hari-śauri: And now we have so many different languages coming out.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And here, if we make closet or on the wall. We can keep anywhere, all the verandas, all these rooms, four walls, keeping books, book stock. Make vigorous propaganda by advertising, "Read Hare Kṛṣṇa literature. Hare Kṛṣṇa is wonderful." In this way advertise. Hindi, English, Bengali. I can give suggestion; you do it. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa... We are getting paper now, government paper. Money is there. Now we have to print very intelligently, and even it is not immediately sold, we can keep stock. (pause) (break) "Cultivate seriously spiritual life. Welcome. Come here. Live with us. We have got enough place." They want that sense gratification in the old age, when the senses are no more capable, still. (end)
Dr. Patel: Then... Then...
Prabhupāda: No, let him. That you have to practice, how to use kāma, krodha. That is described by Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura. Kṛṣṇa-sevā kāmārpaṇe. Kāma means you have a strong desire to do something. That is kāma. So convert it, this kāma desire, for Kṛṣṇa's activities. Kṛṣṇa-sevā kāmārpaṇe. Krodha bhakta-dveṣi-jane. And persons who are envious of the devotees, you become angry upon them. You have got this quality, kāma, krodha, lobha, but you can utilize it. Just like Hanumān. He became very angry, and he set fire in the Lanka. Unless one is very angry, he cannot do that. But that krodha was applied to the demon. Krodha bhakta-dveṣi-jane. So we can utilize kāma, krodha, moha, bewilderment. When we cannot find out a bhakta, then we should be bewildered. Śūnyāyitaṁ jagat sarvam. So therefore bhakti process means that everything has to be purified. Krodha, Hanumān's krodha to set fire Laṅkā, it is purified krodha. But they cannot understand the krodha, how it is purified. But krodha can be purified. When it is bhakta-dveṣi-jane... Those who are envious of God and His devotees, upon them you should be always angry. "No, I have become a bhakta. I cannot become..." Caitanya Mahāprabhu showed by His example. He said, tṛṇād api sunīcena taror api sahiṣṇunā. But when Nityānanda Prabhu was injured, He became so angry, He immediately said, "Bring my cakra. I shall kill the Jagāi-Mādhāi." So at that time He's not tṛṇād api sunīcena. That is krodha bhakta-dveṣi-jane. So we have this kāma, krodha, moha, everything, whatever sense activity we have got. When they are utilized for Kṛṣṇa, then it is purified. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena (CC Madhya 19.170). Now there is fight... Just like political fight. In the political fight both the parties, they are trying to get supremacy of their own sense gratification. But here the fight, Rāma-Rāvaṇa..., Hanumān's krodha was not for himself. He did not want the Laṅkā kingdom. But because Rāmacandra wanted that "This man should be punished," he cooperated: "Yes." So this is spiritual. In this way, when we purify all our activities, all our sensual activities, then it is right. Otherwise... Just like Arjuna. He purified his senses. A Vaiṣṇava is naturally nonviolent, but in order to satisfy Kṛṣṇa he fought. That is purified. So we have to purify. Our activities cannot be stopped. That is not possible.
Mr. Asnani: Oh, I was taking sometime in literary sense. So it was sometimes confusing me.
Prabhupāda: No, it is literally, that yā niśā sarva-bhūtānāṁ tasyāṁ jāgarti saṁyamī. He, spiritualist person, he knows, that "What is the use of the sense gratification? The sense gratification is there in the cats and dogs. Why I am wasting in this way?" That is awakened. What is the difference? A man is having sex life in a very nice apartment, very decorated and nice cot. He is enjoying sex life, that "I am advanced civili..." And the dog is enjoying sex life on the street in presence of everyone. But the enjoyment of sex life is the same. There is no difference either for the dog or the man. So the spiritualistic man, he says that "Why shall I waste my time in sex enjoyment? This is enjoyed by the dogs and cats. I have got this human form of life for spiritual advancement." So saṁyamī: "Stop this nonsense. Let me cultivate spiritual life." Saṁyamī. Saṁyamī means sense gratification stopped. That is saṁyamī. And he is not saṁyamī. Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram. Because he's not saṁyamī, his sense are uncontrolled, so he's opening the path of hellish condition of life. The business is the same—āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunam—based on this maithuna, sex life. So you'll find the fly is doing the same thing, and the dog is doing the same thing, and the human being is also doing the same thing, and the king of heaven, he is doing the same thing. The business is the same. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30). Only the body is different. But they are thinking that "If in the body of Indra, I can have sex with Śacīdevi, that is advancement." He does not think that the sex life with Śacīdevī or the street dog, it is same. There is no difference. And that is jāgarti. That is awakened. There is one word. Where it is, I don't remember. Maithunam agaram ajñāḥ. This is.... This material life is a term of imprisonment of imprisonment in sex. Just like imprisonment means you are detained in a place allotted by the government, you cannot go out. So here, this material world, the imprisonment is the sex. You cannot go out.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Trivikrama: Sleep on the floor.
Jagadīśa: There's no sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: That I was explaining, that what is Vṛndāvana life. In Vṛndāvana life there is everything—the cowherds boy, the calves, the cows, the elderly person like Nanda Mahārāja, Yaśodāmayī, friend. What is their aim? The aim is Kṛṣṇa. The demons... (laughter) Everything is Kṛṣṇa. The demon is coming there. That is also... Center is Kṛṣṇa. And gopīs are dancing. That is also... Center is Kṛṣṇa. And Brahmā is stealing the friends and cows. That is also center Kṛṣṇa.
Trivikrama: Now we are also getting the demons.
Prabhupāda: That is Vṛndāvana life. When everything is Kṛṣṇa, that is Vṛndāvana life. Why Vṛndāvana life is so exalted? Because they have no other shelter except Kṛṣṇa. The whole book Kṛṣṇa is therefore center Kṛṣṇa. That's all. But there are many varieties of activities.
Prabhupāda: There is no exploitation. America has enough money, and India has got enough culture. So they should combine for the benefit of the whole world.
Rāmeśvara: Now American culture is highly developed sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: That is always. Now they've got enough money, but how they will utilize? That is the only source, outlet.
Rāmeśvara: So as the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement increases its influence, then American culture will gradually change?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. As you have changed. You are American. Why not others?
Rāmeśvara: So the nightclubs and the cinema, this will be gradually...
Prabhupāda: Not required.
Rāmeśvara: ...given up.
Prabhupāda: They simply produce anxiety. When they will come to understand that they will get better engagement, automatically these nonsense things will be stopped.
Prabhupāda: Just like if there are temples, people are accustomed, going to temple, chanting Hare..., there is no harm. But the city like the Western countries, simply sense gratification, that should be stopped.
Rāmeśvara: Yes. Yes. And you mention specifically...
Prabhupāda: Just like in Kṛṣṇa's time there were cities like Mathurā, Dvārakā. They were cities, big, big city. And when Kṛṣṇa came, they were decorating, they were receiving. So that kind of city will continue, but not this hellish city-slaughterhouse, brothel and big, big tin car, and so on, accident.
Hari-śauri: Skyscrapers.
Prabhupāda: We have no objection to this, provided there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Unfortunately these things cover more time for their maintenance, and they forget Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That should be stopped. The main business is development of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Prabhupāda: They go to enjoy sex.
Bhāgavata: Yes. It is a mahā-tīrtha, but they go there for...
Prabhupāda: Sense gratification.
Bhāgavata: ...sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: No, we can develop here. Here also people...
Bhāgavata: At Bhuvaneśvara.
Prabhupāda: One magistrate came. There were many respected people came.
Bhāgavata: Tonight?
Prabhupāda: Yes. If we make here nice arrangement, nice preaching, people will come here. People will come when there is real teaching.
Gurukṛpā: The poor man, his office is cheating him, and then his wife stays home and spends all his money and he is being cheated by her.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He comes, taking so much trouble for the wife. He will lie down with her from eleven at night up to three o'clock. For that, that is home. This is his home. And to maintain this home, he has to take so much trouble. And this is civilization. He does not think, "For this little happiness why I am here? Better to become a sannyāsī and live independently. Why I'm taking so much...?" No. And after working so hard, in old age if you ask permission from the wife, "I have done so much for you, for family. Now let me retire." "Eh? You'll retire? Then who will look after me?" The home member not satisfied, and you are not satisfied. You are working so hard—how you can be satisfied? And they find still insufficient income. They are not satisfied. But what is this home? To sense gratification. You are not serving this woman. Because this woman, as soon as she is not able to serve you by her sex, then there is divorce. Nobody's serving anybody, but everybody is serving his own senses. So actually the man is serving his own senses, uṣṭra. He's eating his own blood and thinking, "Thorn very palatable." He's eating thorn. What is his palatable? Cutting the tongue and blood is coming out, and when the thorn's chewed with this blood, it makes little taste. Blood has got taste. And he's thinking, "Thorn is very nice." Therefore they have been called as uṣṭra. Uṣṭra eats own, drinks or eats his own blood, and takes the thorn as very good. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-khara. These animals have been specially mentioned: dog; viḍ-varāha, means hog; uṣṭra; and khara means ass. How Bhāgavata has selected. (laughs)
Pradyumna: Then bhogādi-tyāgaḥ kṛṣṇasya hetave.
Prabhupāda: Ah. For Kṛṣṇa you have to give up sense gratification. No illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication, no gambling—you have to adopt so many things, tyāga. Anartha-nivṛtti. These are anartha, unnecessary things. Do you think if you do not smoke, you die? Unnecessary. What is absolutely necessary, you accept. So bhogādi-tyāgaḥ kṛṣṇārthe. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya: (BG 18.66) "You have created so many unnecessary things. Give up." So that is not possible immediately, but it is possible. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgaḥ (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15). The sādhu-saṅga means associate with sādhu, guru. If we have śraddhā that "I shall now become Kṛṣṇa conscious"—this is śraddhā, "It is very nice"—then sādhu-saṅga: (CC Madhya 22.83) those who are actually Kṛṣṇa conscious, you associate with him. Then bhajana-kriyā. Then bhajana-kriyā... The bhajana, that rise early in the morning, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, take your bath, and so many things, bhajana-kriyā... Then anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt. Then all these unwanted things will be finished automatically. And if you do not do these first three, the fourth will not come, fourth stage, anartha... And after anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt, then niṣṭhā, firm faith. Then anartha, tato ruciḥ. Then taste. Then you get taste. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ..., anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt, tato niṣṭhā tato ruciḥ (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15). Taste. Just like you have got a taste for a food. You cannot give it up. "I want this." Ruci. Athāsaktiḥ. Then you become attached. Tato bhāvaḥ. Sādhakānām ayaṁ premṇaḥ prādurbhāve bhavet kramaḥ. This is the subject there.
Prabhupāda: But why man is producing man? Not the ape? Just see how they lunatic they are.
Bhāgavata: Why does the process of evolution stop?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's convenient to assume that way, but that's not a fact.
Gurukṛpā: Convenient means for your sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: So we have to discuss so many things, immense field. Go out... (break) At least you have to accept that "I am blind." So how you can show others the path? You are blind.
Jayapatākā: By distributing your books, Śrīla Prabhupāda, then the people begin to realize that the scientists are blind. Once they begin to disbelieve and doubt the scientists, then the scientists themselves will also...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Jayapatākā: ...be able to come out with the truth.
Prabhupāda: When a common man will challenge them that "You are rascal. You are blind. You are showing us road?" Then it will be. I refuse to accept it.
Prabhupāda: The learned scholars, they used to live in the forest. Vyāsadeva was writing in śāmyaprāśa cottage. (chuckling) That is university. And no university can produce such scholar or student, not imperfect. They're all rascals. What are the values of these MA, Ph.D? (break) It is humbug. Māyā-sukhāya bharam udvahato vimūḍhān (SB 7.9.43). Actually they're vimūḍhān. Mūḍha means rascal and vimūḍhān means special rascals. (laughs) Māyā-sukhāya, for some sense gratification-big, big arrangement. And next life he's going to be a dog. That's all. So Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "I am thinking of these rascals, vimūḍhān, especially rascals, that they are arranging so gorgeous thing for material happiness and forgetting their spiritual identity." Śoce: "I am simply thinking of these rascals. For me there is no problem." Tato vimukha-cetasaḥ. "Because they are bereft of God consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they are doing, engaged in these big, big projects, although (they) live for twenty years or fifty years utmost, perhaps. And eternal life? They do not know." Vimūḍhān: "specially rascal." The cats and dogs are rascals, but they are animals. They cannot know anything. But they got this human form of life, and still, they are acting as rascal. Therefore vimūḍhān, "specially rascal." Manuṣya-janama pāiyā, rādhā-kṛṣṇa nā bhajiyā, jāniyā śuniyā viṣa khāinu. Such a rascal. (break) ...where charity is given, to be given, give him. That's all. Dātavyam. (break) "...by the people, for the people." And what is the people condition? They are naked. They have no good house, no food. And these men, they must have very good bungalow, very good, comfortable life. This is Kali-yuga, means "Plunder the citizens, take money from them, and live comfortably at the cost of the poor citizens."
Bhāgavata: We are threatening their sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So go on with fighting. We are not the Vṛndāvana bābājīs: "No, we are so perfect we do not go out of Vṛndāvana, and chant... Chant or not chant, we have got three dozen widows." This is going on. Sahajiyā. Still they are better because they have accepted Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Lord, than these demons. Our Guru Mahārāja said that although we condemn these sahajiyās, but they are better than the Māyāvādīs because they accept Kṛṣṇa as Supreme Lord. Their character is not good. But still, because they accept Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Lord somehow or other, they are better than these Māyāvādīs.
Bhāgavata: Sahajiyā.
Prabhupāda: Sahajiyā means they have taken everything very easy. That's all.
Bhāgavata: Cheaply.
Gargamuni: Would you like to rest a little bit?
Prabhupāda: No. Why rest?
Bhāgavata: 9:20.
Gargamuni: 9:30.
Prabhupāda: So we go at ten?
Hari-śauri: 10:15.
Prabhupāda: 10:15, that's all.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Hari-śauri: Teaching Vaiṣṇava principles.
Prabhupāda: If he has taken sometimes fish, there was no way. What can be done? Not for his sense gratification.
Hari-śauri: Even that's not certain, that he took fish anyway.
Prabhupāda: Sometimes it is said.
Hari-śauri: Well, it mentions that they distributed foodstuffs to a lot of people, fish and bread, 'cause that's all that was available.
Prabhupāda: Yes, what can be done?
Hari-śauri: And because it wasn't always easy to get good water, there's a very cheap kind of wine. It's not actually very alcoholic. It's very, very cheap. Then they used to drink that because there's no good water.
Prabhupāda: That is not plea that we shall drink bottle after bottle.
Hari-śauri: Yes. (laughs) Catholic priests, they have a big stock in their cabinets, so much wine.
Prabhupāda: If they want to be reformed, we can reform them. On the basis of Bible, we can reform them. There is no difficulty.
Satsvarūpa: It requires powerful influence in the society to...
Prabhupāda: Yes. If the leaders of the society, they agree. They are barking like dogs in the United Nation. They should take rightly the instruction of Bhagavad-gītā. Then everything will be all right. They're simply barking like dogs. What benefit is there? What benefit people have derived from the United Nation? Nothing. So if they want actually world peace, world unity, they must take the formula given by Kṛṣṇa. That is our duty. Because we are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, so our duty is to convince that "You are uselessly wasting your time for unity, for benefit of the human... You take this. You'll be happy." We are safe. We have taken to Kṛṣṇa's lotus feet shelter. There is no doubt. But... Just like Prahlāda Mahārāja. He said that "I am quite happy. I have no problem. But I am thinking of these rascals." Tato vimūḍha-cetasa indriyārtha: "They have made the whole aim of life sense gratification." Indriyārtha. "And for that purpose, a few years, they're making huge arrangement, how we shall become happy?" And next life a dog. It is risky. So as Kṛṣṇa conscious men, we should try to save them. That is the duty. But this civilization as it is going on is very risky. They do not know how nature's law is working, how he's going to be a dog next life. He does not know. Mūḍho nābhijānāti. To save the mass people from falling down to the repetition of birth and death, that is welfare activity. To save them by Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we have to keep this ideal at least, varṇāśrama, that "Here is the position."
Prabhupāda: Brain means proper intelligence. That is brain. Dhīra, sober, that is brain. Anyone who has got brain, he will understand the simple logic, that how the body is changing. There is something; therefore body's changing from childhood to boyhood. And as soon as that important thing is missing—no more change of body. It is a dead matter. So where is your brain to understand this simple truth? Hm?
Pradyumna: Because it's dulled from sense gratification, they can't under...
Prabhupāda: "So whatever the cause, but you have no brain. Cause may be so many things. But you have no brain to understand the simple truth. Where is your brain? So this movement is not brainwashing. Brain-giving. You have no brain." Therefore śāstra says, sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). Animal has no brain. They say animal has no soul, but that's not the fact. Animal has no brain. Otherwise, all anatomical, physical, physiological conditions are there. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna. But they have no brain. They cannot understand what is the difference between dead man and living man. That is the distinction between man and animal. But if you cannot understand, then where is your brain? On this point. Actually he has no brain. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13). That was the point Arjuna was chastised, that "You rascal, you have no brain. You are lamenting on this body and talking like very learned man." Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca... (BG 2.11). The whole world is going on like that. They're talking like very big scientist, big philosopher, very big, big, big, but real thing they do not know. "So where is your brain?" Challenge them like that. "You cannot answer. You are big, big scientist, putting forward, 'by combination of chemical...' So why don't you combine the chemical and give the dead man to become alive? Where is your brain? You simply say 'combination of chemical,' but you take the chemicals and combine, then we can understand you have got brain.
Prabhupāda: Supplied by māyā, the machine, this, that. He has nothing to do. Karaṇ... This is also Vedic mantra. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. Just like I am an ordinary man. If I want to do something, I ask one or two, "Do this." I ask somebody, "Bring some money." I ask somebody that "You do this." So if an ordinary man can do, why God should do anything? Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. He has nothing to do. Na tat-samaś cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate. He can do everything, because nobody is equal to Him, but still does not do anything. Why? Parāsya śaktir vividhaiva śrūyate (Cc. Madhya 13.65, purport). His energy are so mighty millions that simply by indicating the energy, it will do. This is God. This is God. Just like big man, big industrialist, he simply pushes his button, and the secretary comes: "I want this." Immediately. This is... Ordinary human being can do. So why God has to do? He'll simply dance with the gopīs. That's all. That is God. He'll enjoy. Ānanda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhāvitā... That is God. Therefore everything is done by God's agent or His expansion. Otherwise God has nothing to do. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. Simply indication. Here it is said that Īśvara, the Lord, is situated everyone's heart. He can understand "What this rascal wants." He's so kind, He's living as friend. "My dear son, please come back. Why you are desiring so many nonsense things?" But the child will not hear. He wants. Kṛṣṇa-bahirmukha hañā bhoga vāñchā kare. He wants sense gratification this way, that way, that way, that way. So He gives him facility: "All right." And all facility. He wants to become a tiger, "All fixed." Nails, jaws, fangs—"Become a tiger." Yantra. The body is yantra, perfect yantra. That is supplied by māyā. Māyā. Daiva-netreṇa. He wants this, to give up this body. This machine is dead. Now you simply think of a tiger, and you are carried to the womb of the tiger. And the mother gives the body of a tiger. He comes out, enjoys. This is transmigration. The art is so fine. (hammering sound) What is this sound?
Prabhupāda: That's it. This is going on. And what is their prakāra? Kāma? But simply sense gratification. But previous to this verse?
Hṛdayānanda:
- asatyam apratiṣṭhaṁ te
- jagad āhur anīśvaram
- aparaspara-sambhūtaṁ
- kim anyat kāma-haitukam
- (BG 16.8)
Prabhupāda: Before that.
Hṛdayānanda: The verse before?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Etāṁ dṛṣṭim avaṣṭabhya.
Girirāja: Well, this gives excuse for unrestricted sense gratification, although actually there's no benefit in that. It just makes people more unhappy.
Prabhupāda: Without scientific knowledge the animals are also gratifying their senses. Why they take to the platform of education for sense gratification? What can be benefit? It doesn't require... Viṣayaḥ khalu sarvataḥ syāt. Even the birds and beasts, they have got facilities for sense gratification. The pig, they have got very good facility for sense gratification—no distinction between mother, sister, or anyone. The pig has got greater facility. So why in the name of education?
Hari-śauri: Intellectual sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: What is that intellectual?
Girirāja: I think the idea is that if everything is just coming from matter and there's no God, then there's no rules and regulations to restrict the sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: But that you could not prove. You are under some control. Why don't you see to that? You may think you are independent, but you are under control. Nobody wants to die—you die. So what is the benefit of showing that "I am independent"? (pause) Any arrangement with any bank for our temple branch? (break) What is the situation of the tenants?
Prabhupāda: The most dangerous type of fear is if my next life I become an animal. That is the most dangerous. But those who have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, given some service, for them there is no such fear. He gets another chance. Hmm.
Hari-śauri: (reads) Purport. "Activity in Kṛṣṇa consciousness or acting for the benefit of Kṛṣṇa without expectation of sense gratification is the highest transcendental quality of work. Even a small beginning of such activity finds no impediment, nor can that small beginning be lost at any stage. Any work begun on the material plane has to be completed. Otherwise the whole attempt becomes a failure. But any work begun in Kṛṣṇa consciousness has a permanent effect, even though not finished. The performer of such work is therefore not at a loss even if his work in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is incomplete. One percent done in Kṛṣṇa consciousness bears permanent results, so that the next beginning is from the point of two percent, whereas in the material activity, without one hundred percent success, there is no profit. Ajāmila performed his duty in some percentage of Kṛṣṇa Consciousness, but the result he enjoyed at the end was one hundred percent by the grace of the Lord. There is a nice verse in this connection in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
- tyaktvā sva-dharmaṁ caraṇāmbujaṁ harer
- bhajann apakvo 'tha patet tato yadi
- yatra kva vābhadram abhūd amuṣya kiṁ
- ko vārtha āpto 'bhajatāṁ sva-dharmataḥ
- (SB 1.5.17)
If someone gives up self-gratificatory pursuits and works in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and then falls down on account of not completing his work, what loss is there on his part? And what can one gain if one performs his material activities perfectly? (SB 1.5.17) Or, as the Christians say, 'What profiteth a man if he gains the whole world yet suffers the loss of his eternal soul?' Material activities and their results end with the body, but work in Kṛṣṇa consciousness carries the person again to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even after the loss of the body. At least one is sure to have a chance in the next life of being born again as a human being, either in the family of a great cultured brāhmaṇa or in a rich aristocratic family that will give one a further chance for elevation. That is the unique quality of work done in Kṛṣṇa consciousness."
Prabhupāda: Yes. These chances are there. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati (BG 9.31). Find out this verse. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati. At the time of death, if you simply offer Kṛṣṇa, He will know everything, what I have tried to do. "Now You consider my position. Send me wherever You like." Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati.
Guru dāsa: And they will read it more critically than people who have so much sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That they are realizing. And they have got respect for Indian culture. And because our books are always with reference to the old Sanskrit verse, and we are explaining that, they have got natural attraction. That is possible.
Guru dāsa: There are trade agreements between Poland and India too, now. So we may even be able to open up channels on cultural or trade basis from India from our side with Poland to give us a very established position in those countries.
Prabhupāda: These dollars has to be deposited in Bank of America. Other bank will not take.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Any bank will convert.
Prabhupāda: No.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah. I mean, when anybody comes here, any tourist, they always bring dollars.
Prabhupāda: Is that?
Guru dāsa: Yes.
Prabhupāda: And if the client is rich, draw.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I have noticed that in the West now they have..., they know that there are certain cures for serious illnesses, and they have outlawed these cures, because they will lose so much money.
Prabhupāda: Everything business. "Bring money. Bring money." Because money is the medium of sense gratification. They have been accustomed to sense gratification. Money is required. So bring money some way or other. And here, the civilization was plain living, simple living. Minimize the expenditure and develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then you will be happy.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Unless one lives plainly, he cannot develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Bhogaiśvarya-prasaktānām.
Prabhupāda: Tayāpahṛta-cetasām (BG 2.44). Anyway, now you learn this art. Do good to the rest of the... That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... Don't keep them in ignorance. That is paropakāra. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's... All saintly persons do like that. Especially Caitanya Mahāprabhu. This civilization is so dangerous. Demonic. Formerly, political fighting is always there. People had no concept. Democracy means that every man has to take part in the competition.
Prabhupāda: There are many, many experts from the lower-grade creatures. Ant hill. You are spending so much money for skyscraper building. The ant, they construct big hill as their residential quarters. Where they get their food? Where they get their...? But they are living. This is nature's study. Now you can... So what is this? Āhāra-nidrā. For eating. So for these four principles—eating, sleeping, sex, and defense—everyone knows. But the human society, they have made it a problem. These small ants, they also require those things, but they have no problem. For defense they don't require atomic weapon. They know in their own way how to defend. Cats, dogs, animals—everyone knows. Struggling. Our human society, advanced, means they are perplexed with these problems. The human life was meant for self-realization. That problem left, they have created some problems which the animals can solve in their own way. This is the present society. This political struggle and..., what is their aim, objective? To solve these problems. Nothing more. Nūnaṁ pramattaḥ kurute vikarma (SB 5.5.4), indriya-prītaye, these four principles, sense gratification. The ant is also struggling. They wanted to enjoy the little sugar in the here. We have driven him. That's a problem. They have to find out somewhere else.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The Christian religion had that deterioration. Everything deteriorated more and more into sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: Because they have no valid philosophy. It is simply official. They have nothing, no knowledge, no nothing, simply that dress and cloth. That's all.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just like the original... When Jesus was there and he had twelve disciples, they simply gave up everything and traveled with him and tried to preach. So they were renunciates, living simply whatever they could take, nothing more, and devoting their lives to God. But the followers later on, more and more they added the degree of sense gratification, till now you can't see any renunciation at all within their order.
Prabhupāda: No, they are drinking. They are having homosex. They are encouraging homosex, giving man-to-man marriage. You know that? This is going on. Doing everything nonsense.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) That is Vṛndāvana. That is described in Caitanya-caritāmṛta, that... Aiye. Ātmendriya-prīti-vāñchā tāre bali kāma (CC Adi 4.165). (Hindi) The gopīs' līlā with Kṛṣṇa... (Hindi) ...the desire is "How Kṛṣṇa will be happy." (Hindi)
Guest (1): That is all sense gratification.
Prabhupāda: That's all. There is no prema. There cannot be any prema within this material world. All kāma.
Guest (1): This is prema.
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) This picture has appealed to me, this picture, "Kṛṣṇa likes Rādhārāṇī? Push Her." (Hindi) This is prema, in the beginning of. (Hindi) Arcanam. This is called arcanam. Arcanam. Arcā-mūrti-sevā. (Hindi) Thank you very much. (Hindi) So next you are here... (Hindi)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I have a photograph. Should I bring it?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Prabhupāda: We have no other business. We want to see people live, eating very nicely nutritious food, keeping good health. But unnecessarily artificial things, bothering, that we don't want. Keep your health very nice, live for as many years as possible, and be Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then, next life, you go back to home, back to Godhead, permanent life. Yad gatvā na nivartante (BG 15.6). This we want to give. There is no cheating. There is no politics, no personal ambition fulfilling. This is our mission. Try to convince them. There is not a little tinge of personal sense gratification. This is our... Now can you point out, any one of them, that "Here is the point, the personal sense gratification"? We are talking amongst ourselves, so if there is any flaw, you can point out. Can anyone? That "Here is the point, personal sense gratification"? There is no such things in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Tāṅdera caraṇa-sebi-bhakta-sane bās. Our only ambition is we live among devotees and execute the mission of our predecessors, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, Kṛṣṇa. This is our ambition.
Prabhupāda: And they are all intelligent in sense gratification. Quite equal in intelligence, like the man. There is no scarcity of intelligence. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithuna. How to sleep, how to eat, how to enjoy sex, how to protect from danger—they know everything completely. (break) ...he's trained up. And how to enjoy according to the body, place, that complete intelligence is there. Lord Brahmā has got that intelligence, and the small insect, he has got. And Kṛṣṇa is giving everyone facility: "All right, enjoy." Bhrāmayan sarva-bhūtāni yantrārūḍhāni māyayā (BG 18.61). Sarva-bhūtāni. Everyone is getting opportunity. According to his karma, he's getting a suitable body. You want to become Brahmā? All right. And you become, want to become a hog? All right. If you want to become worm in the stool, all right. This is going on. And devotion begins when one does not want to become anything. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (Brs. 1.1.11). Then he likes. So when you desire, either you desire like a Brahmā or the worm in the stool, that is material. And when you give up this desire, then spiritual life begins. Anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (CC Madhya 19.167). Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam (CC Madhya 19.170). So to become anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyam (CC Madhya 19.167), that is required. Who will understand this philosophy?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now with your books, the whole world may understand.
Prabhupāda: Of course, we have made such attempt.
Prabhupāda: That's it. And if nice children are there in the society, they will become responsible men. Then there will be no disturbance in the society. Everything will go on smoothly. Brāhmaṇa is acting as brāhmaṇa; kṣatriya is acting as... They are both... No quarrel. No animosity. Everyone is cooperating with one another. The whole society becomes peaceful. Family becomes peaceful. The man personally becomes peaceful. Then he will be able to make progress. Kutaḥ śānti ayuktasya. If you are not peaceful, how you can attain? Or if you are not a devotee, you cannot be peaceful. Or if you are not peaceful, you cannot become devotee. But if you can become devotee, you become peaceful. So I have studied practically. Vedic way of simple life is the best. And unless you adopt the Vedic way of simple life, you'll be implicated, material desires. There is no end. The Western civilization, they are after sense gratification, but there is no limit where it will end. The psychology is that everything new. They are changing—"change, change, change." And there is no limit. Where the sense gratification will be satisfied, this much? Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma. Kāmasya na indriya-prītir lābho jīveta yāvatā (BG 18.44). Na indriya-prītiḥ. We require sense gratification—we have got senses—but not for the matter of sense. Just to live. Just like sleeping—we require bedding. And why shall I be dissatisfied if there is no good bedstead and no silk, silver and, or, and this, that, so...? Within my means, whatever comforts are available, I make satisfaction. Why shall I make competition?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's not the purpose of life. It's missing.
Prabhupāda: Everyone. (Bengali) The civilization is... They are also trying loka-hita-kāraṇa, how people will be happy, but in a wrong way.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Who is that who is trying also? Who did you say was also trying?
Prabhupāda: The materialists. They are trying in the society, but in a wrong way. In a wrong way they have taken the hobby of sense gratification. And that will never be satisfied.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: 'Cause they think that the body is the identity, not the soul.
Prabhupāda: Soul, they do not know what is. There is soul, and there is activity of the soul, soul is the fundamental basis—these rascals, they do not know. Apaśyatām ātma-tattvam (SB 2.1.2). They do not know ātma-tattvam. Gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām. Śrotavyādīni rājendra nṛṇāṁ santi sahasraśaḥ (SB 2.1.2). They are increasing thousands and thousands of demands. Why? Apaśyatām ātma-tattvam (SB 2.1.2). They do not see. They do not know what is happiness. Therefore their center is gṛheṣu gṛha-medhinām.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Where are these verses from, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Bhāgavata. You do not read?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, Prahlāda, teachings...
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Not Prahlāda. You are... You do not care? Parīkṣit Mahārāja. Find out Second Canto. You should read and write in so many...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's hard to remember the Sanskrit.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: From the Mathurā station?
Prabhupāda: No, no. From Calcutta to here. Ticket, what is?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Something like about... The ticket's about fifty-six...
Prabhupāda: (break) ...the modern kīrtana. Kīrtanāt... (break) "We shall improve our economic condition for more and more sense gratification." And that is the mistake. People are trying for that. Kāmasya nendriya-prītir lābho jīveta yāvatā (SB 1.2.10). Yāvad artha-prayojanam. Whatever money is required for maintaining, that's all. And as soon as we increase the so-called standard of happiness by sense gratification, then there is trouble. That is going on all over the world. They want money. They're not satis... "More money. More money. More money." Why more money? If you can live comfortably with certain amount of money, be satisfied in that way. Why more?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Unnecessary.
Prabhupāda: Unnecessary, and increase anxiety.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. The worries increase.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why more? Live very comfortably and be advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is required.
Pañca-draviḍa: You are a pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa, and your whole life is simply dedicated to the propagation of Kṛṣṇa's teachings all over the world, whereas my whole life is simply dedicated to sense gratification. So therefore, when I come in front of a person such as yourself, I feel ashamed.
Bhavānanda: It is true, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that if you lose your desire to remain here, then no medicine can be effective. But if you desire to remain, then the medicine can become effective.
Prabhupāda: No, in this way to remain—not desirable. Every day, crisis.
Bhavānanda: That is the crisis.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That is the puzzlement. (break)
Bhavānanda: ...we have to appraise that if Your Divine Grace leaves us, what will be the result both to ISKCON society, to each of you disciples individually, and to the entire planet.
Prabhupāda: That I am thinking, that such a big society, the aims and object may be dismantled. I am thinking from that vision.
| Page Title: | Sense gratification (Conversations 1976 - 1977) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Mayapur |
| Created: | 20 of Dec, 2011 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=114, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 114 |