Hayagrīva: ...and everyone is sitting in the cave looking, absorbed in the cinema, these forms that are not actual forms but are imitation forms.
Prabhupāda: But that means darkness.
Hayagrīva: Uh huh.
Prabhupāda: Darkness, you are saying, "Prabhupāda, I am here," and I am looking here: "Where you are?" So that is the position of darkness. Everything you see, it is not clear. That is darkness. Therefore Vedic version is, "Don't remain in darkness. Come to the light." That light is guru. Ajñāna-timirāndhasya jñānāñjana-śalākayā. This is guru's description. When we are in darkness of ignorance the guru, spiritual master, ignites the torch of knowledge. Ajñāna-timirāndhasya jñānāñjana-śalakā. Śalākayā means torch. Then he sees, "Oh, things are like this." In this way, when he becomes self-realized, brahma-bhū, then he becomes happy, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati (BG 18.54). That is civilization, to get the light. And to remain in the darkness and struggle for existence, that is not civilization; that is animal life. It has no value. That is going on. Therefore we are trying to give Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the greatest contribution to the human society. Kṛṣṇa consciousness we are not manufacturing, we are not bluffing like other swamis and yogis and philosophers. We are simply carrying the light, torchlight, which Kṛṣṇa has given. That's all. So our business is very easy—very easy and beneficial and practical.