Road (Conversations 1977)

Expressions researched:
"road" |"roads" |"roadside" |"roadway" |"roadways"

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is agricultural land.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Right opposite...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: Where that gate is.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Right before the gate. That is... I was under the impression that belonged to some Christian man.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. That is first. After crossing the road, the corner.

Hari-śauri: Where the parikrama path is.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That is available for...?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually that would be good if we get that. It's right next to our temple.

Prabhupāda: So why not try for that? You can get it, I am sure.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. I'm going to Vṛndāvana in ten days.

Prabhupāda: So if we can get that land, then we can divert our sewer in the land and utilize it for nice agricultural purposes. So instead of spending lakh of rupees for municipality, why not acquire that land?

Room Conversation -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I had such experience. I had some experience in my childhood in 1911. I was thirteen years old. There was a riot. So our house was there in Mahātmā Gandhi Road, and all sides Muhammadans. We are simply... The Mulliks and our house are simply some respectable men. Otherwise it was surrounded (surrendered?) by... That is called Kwalabala and Bastik, all Muhammadans, backside fully Muhammadans. So the riot was there, and I went to play. There is a square, Marker(?) Square. So I did not know the riot has taken place. I was coming home. So one of my class friends said that "You do not go to your house. That side is rioting now." So because we are in the Muhammadan quarter, this fighting between two parties, that was going on. It is usual. So I thought it may be like that, that two guṇḍās are fighting. I have seen. One guṇḍā is stabbing the other guṇḍā. I have seen. And they are pickpockets. When you are passing they would... I have seen, he is pickpocketing. (laughter) And they were our neighbor men. So I thought "It must be like that. This is going on." But when I came the crossing of Mahatma Gandhi... At that time Harrison Road it was. Harrison Road and Holi..., Holiday, Halliday Street, yes. So one shop was being plundered. Putamat putamat putamat..." So I was child, a boy. I became... "What is this happening?" In the meantime all, my father, mother, members: "Oh, the child has not come." They became so mad, they came out of home expecting, "Wherefrom the child will come?" So what could I do? When I saw, then I began to run towards our house, and one Muhammadan, he wanted to kill me. He took his lāṭhi and actually... But I passed through some way or other. I was saved. So as soon as I came before our gate they got their life. So without speaking anything I went to the bedroom, and it was in the month of... It is winter. So I... Without saying anything I laid down, wrapping myself with quilt. So that time I was rising: "Is it ended? The riot is ended?" I was asking. I remember. So I would have been killed in that riot. So I have got experience of this riot. That is the first riot in Calcutta, in 1911.

Room Conversation -- January 4, 1977, Bombay:

Jagadīśa: As in Hyderabad.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then our movement is success. Our only motive is how people become interested in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We have no other motive. No economic problem... Economic problem is... What is economic problem? We produce our own food and cloth, barely, and spiritual life... On the farm it is easier. And if they are dispatched to the city for livelihood, there are big, big roads and big, big cars and big, big anxieties. Then wine, meat, and so on, so on..., suicide, their spiritual life finished. These rascals are protesting. They have no ideas of spiritual life. They think this is life, to be merry, enjoy and drink. "Eat. Drink. Be merry." How they are committing suicide, they do not know. Nature's law is very stringent. They are foolish rascal. There is no education for them. Still, if we try, many men will be saved. So write very elaborately how to do this. Increase. And in your country, we increase this farm project any unlimited number... So much land is lying vacant. We can utilize the wood for constructing residences. And as soon as the jungle is clear, we can utilize it for growing food and keeping cows, as exactly they are doing in New Vrindaban. The cows are very happy. In our original New Vrindaban... What you have named it?

Jagadīśa: The original farm? I think they still call that New Vrindaban.

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But we must have eyes to see. What they have got, position? All these, they go and come. But here it is entering into the core of the heart of the younger generation. They are becoming mad after it. One should have eyes to see. And therefore the authorities are afraid that "Younger generation, if they..." Here is one book by Professor Stillson Judah. He's a great, learned scholar. After five years study on this movement he has written this book, Hare Krishna and Counterculture. He has given his verdict that "This movement will stay." He has very thoroughly studied the statistics and meeting every member, in this way. There are many books about us, small and big. But here is a responsible master of religious studies.

D. D. Desai: One of the earliest days, when we had this group come to our neighborhood, Mrs. Desai and myself visited. They invite together. Swami Parvati-kanta had called that in Gupta House, Natinsi Road. So our house is adjacent. Bungalow is adjacent to it. So we were there, invited there, so we joined the group. Those all people came to our bungalow subsequently, and they had some program. Then Mrs. Desai served them some food...

Prabhupāda: Our program?

D. D. Desai: Yes, sir, Hare Kṛṣṇa program. They had a program, kīrtana. Then we enrolled as life member. I think that was about four years back. Swamiji from our Badranath, who is around this... Vina(?) Swami. He was there. He was saying that "Our people have forgotten our, this culture and this heritage, but people..."

Prabhupāda: Everyone says. It is purely Indian culture, and I am not getting any help from the government although they have got cultural department. Some dancing party will go; they'll pay. That is culture. And cultural knowledge is religion. This is the position. (Hindi) Real culture is neglected. And some dancing party in the name of culture will draw money and go.

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Dhana-durmadāndhān. What is the translation?

Girirāja: "Are there no torn clothes lying on the common road? Do the trees, which exist for maintaining others, no longer give alms in charity? Do the rivers, being dried up, no longer supply water to the thirsty? Are the caves of the mountains now closed, or above all, does the Almighty Lord not protect the fully surrendered souls?"

Prabhupāda: Where is the question of empty stomach? Kasmād bhajanti kavayo dhana-durmadāndhān. Last line.

Girirāja: "Why, then, do the learned sages go to flatter those who are intoxicated by hard-earned wealth?"

Prabhupāda: They think that "Why should we go to God? The devotees come here to beg from us. We are bigger than God."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Puffed-up.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they say, "empty stomach." (break) Kim ajito na avati upasannan. Read the meaning.

Girirāja: "kim—whether; ajitaḥ—the Almighty Lord; avati—give protection; na—not; upasannān—the surrendered soul."

Prabhupāda: That's it. Kṛṣṇa says "You surrender." And one who has surrendered, does it mean Kṛṣṇa has no responsibility? So why you are bothering to go to this dhana-durmadāndhān?

Mr. Asnani: Unconditional surrender.

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Gurudāsa: So do you think I should organize this meeting with Chandra Swami also, taking some part in organizing? Or just meet him to get him to see you. Not any special, but I mean to say that he knows the situation. He can...

Prabhupāda: Or if he wants to see, he may come. He may find out.

Gurudāsa: Yes. He should come to see you. I'm arranging for your car to come from Delhi. We've made two roads of steel, of steel pieces. That's what they're using in the Mela on the sand. And I've gotten permission from the head of the Mela to take some of that. So we're making two rastas, one especially for you, where shamiyana comes out, and it doesn't look like a road, but when you come in, just untie that, and your car goes in. And then another one behind. So that will be able to keep any vehicles that come. One bus came already. Haṁsadūta Mahārāja's one bus.

Prabhupāda: He has come.

Gurudāsa: No, he hasn't. But he sent some men.

Hari-śauri: He is coming, though, I think. That's what we were told.

Gurudāsa: He's expected. I saw Acyutānanda Mahārāja yesterday. He's coming. I don't know if Gargamuni is going to come or not.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Gurudāsa: He says his health isn't good. I don't know if he wants to come. I think he just likes to distribute books.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Morning Discussion about Kumbhamela -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Acchā?

Gurudāsa: But they expect ten million. That's the estimate. Many camps, many pandals.

Prabhupāda: And store, supplies, everything is...

Gurudāsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Road is nice.

Gurudāsa: It's being improved. In some spots it's nice. But because it's on sand they have to always keep it wet and they put metal plates down. They're trying to do it very well.

Prabhupāda: There is a Māghmela committee. One magistrate is the head. A regular committee for managing this Mela.

Gurudāsa: We have contact with this committee.

Prabhupāda: And where is governor's camp from our?

Gurudāsa: I don't know exactly, but it's in the same island. I'll find out.

Prabhupāda: No, there is... Our governor is Kṛṣṇa. Sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29).

Dr. Patel: All the Britishers were organizing this Mela, Kumbha.

Prabhupāda: No, in... They were taking... The committee... I said that, "We have committee?" This is British time. One magistrate is the head and assistants, so many.

Room Conversation -- January 15, 1977, Allahabad:

Prabhupāda: But tea they also produce it.

Gurudāsa: Was it introduced by the English?

Prabhupāda: Yes. India did not know what is tea. They started the tea gardens, and they recruited labors from India. We have seen in our childhood that Mahatma Gandhi Road. When I was standing on the gate, five hundred, six hundred laborers recruited from Bihar. Bihar and Orissa, these two provinces very poor. Even all these colonies, just like Trinidad... Where is Englishmen? If the laborers and Indians were sent... Therefore we find in Mauritius, in Africa, so many Indians. Their kingdom, first of all it was conquered by Indian soldiers. Then, when it was to be organized-Indian coolies, Indian laborers, Indian guards. They have got men and money, but they expanded Empire. So I am doing the same business: American money, American... (laughs) I am also a great politician.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: You'd have to buy several of them together.

Gargamuni: Yes. And also they're out of the city. They're more out of reach. They're not in that... That one area is the best area. There's a two-lane road. You know, traffic going one way and traffic going another way with an island in the center.

Rāmeśvara: And all the hotels are there.

Gargamuni: And all the hotels are there, so all the top people are there.

Rāmeśvara: It sounds like Bombay.

Gargamuni: And that Purī hotel was packed up with foreigners and with local people very nicely dressed. And this plot is just near the Purī hotel. So it's a nice area, and the breeze is wonderful, very nice breeze from the ocean. So if we build a nice multi-story, that breeze will be very healthy.

Prabhupāda: So...

Gargamuni: So I have to leave here tomorrow morning at 8:30 and meet with the man at around 9:30, 10:00, and he'll give me all the names and addresses, and he'll show me some other plots. Then, perhaps, if maybe you would like to see it the following day, we can drive there and show you the plot as soon as I get more information.

Rāmeśvara: Would you like to do that, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Not big, but... Bombay.

Hari-śauri: Yes. That's the same, along the same lines at least.

Gargamuni: Shouldn't it be higher than the Purī temple or less?

Rāmeśvara: We can make it higher for not too much extra cost. The height is not that expensive. I was talking...

Gargamuni: Height should be... Because you can see Purī temple from the road ten miles away.

Rāmeśvara: It would be suitable, appropriate, if this temple was taller.

Prabhupāda: That can be done.

Gargamuni: 'Cause then it could be seen from miles away.

Hari-śauri: Bombay temple was restricted for height. Otherwise it was going to be higher.

Gargamuni: Because along the road, say about ten kilometers, they have a sign, "Look to your right, and you will see Purī in your sight." They have a sign, like a poem.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Gargamuni: Along the road. They say, "Look to your right, and you will see Lord Jagannātha temple in your sight." And sure enough, you see, coming up, about ten miles out of the city, that temple. So similarly if we have a very high temple it can be seen.

Room Conversation -- January 20, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: You'll hire someone?

Gargamuni: No, we'll get a retired man. They'd love the work. Just like we have that engineer. He's a retired engineer. We pay him some small salary...

Prabhupāda: Why you want to go by boat to the coast?

Gargamuni: Because you can't get by road. There's no roads. They're dirt roads. Many of the villages you can't get to except along the water routes.

Prabhupāda: Hm. But so far I know, it is very rough, Bay of Bengal.

Gargamuni: Well, we can invest... I know these ships in Calcutta. I saw at the pier at least five or six of these ships, these fishing boats, and they go up and down. I know if we take a...

Prabhupāda: No, if you get a big boat, that is all right, ferry boat. But if you get a small boat, the sea is very rough.

Gargamuni: Sixty feet. Sixty, seventy feet. My father had a sixty-foot boat, and we went in the Atlantic Ocean, and it wasn't so bad.

Prabhupāda: Atlantic Ocean is very rough.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Hari-śauri: Very good reception.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere.

Gargamuni: And yet there is no roads. There's no lights there. Nothing is there.

Prabhupāda: India is good field. Yes. India is good field.

Gargamuni: At least, we can use one hundred travel... You once told me and Tamāla that we should have a hundred jeeps and send them all over India, one hundred jeeps.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Now you are seeing that there is possibility of preaching. And even if he cannot speak local language, still he'll be received.

Gargamuni: Yes. And all of our magazines, at least in Bengal, are being... (break)

Rāmeśvara: ...to organize the whole world to cheating, then, it seems, we can be given the intelligence to organize it for Lord Caitanya.

Prabhupāda: You can also cheat them. (chuckles) From māyā's way, bring then to Kṛṣṇa's way. That's all. That is also cheating. Tell them, "Yes, you live like this."

Room Conversation -- January 22, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Then?

Gargamuni: It's nice. It's peaceful and quiet.

Abhirāma: No trucks going. Prabhupāda was complaining a little bit.

Gargamuni: No. There's no... You're off the main road, very much so. Then you go at least two miles off the highway. Then you make another right turn and you go through a village. And then you come to a big opening, and the temple is there with bathing ghāṭa. There is also tube well where you can get very good water. And the cottage is just on the other side of the mandir.

Prabhupāda: Very nice place.

Gargamuni: Yes. It's very nice. Very peaceful.

Prabhupāda: Caitanya Mahāprabhu stayed there, and Nityānanda Prabhu stayed. Mādhavendra Purī stayed. It is very important place.

Gargamuni: On our way down here we also stayed overnight. On my way down here.

Prabhupāda: Very good. So what do you pay?

Gargamuni: I gave them donation of twenty-one rupees for the night. I gave for the... (end)

Room Conversation -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: What did he gain? Became a rākṣasa and was killed.

Gurukṛpa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I went to Jagannātha Purī today, and I looked at this land that Gargamuni was looking at, and I don't think it's a very good idea because it's too central. It is right with all the hotels, and therefore the atmosphere there is not a very serenic atmosphere. But just maybe one mile down the beach I saw, which is still on the main road... It is within ten minute rickshaw. The atmosphere reminds one of Lord Caitanya, and the water there is much cleaner because it is away from the sewerage of the main city, similar to our Vṛndāvana, not far off, but five or ten minutes. It is the best place in Purī.

Prabhupāda: So put this matter in the GBC meeting.

Hari-śauri: I found the address of one man who offered us some land. You remember in Bombay you wanted someone to look at this land.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes.

Hari-śauri: Well, I found that address. This morning I gave it to Gargamuni, so he has to check that out yet. The land's about a half mile from railway station towards the sea. So he's going to check...

Prabhupāda: So give him. He can go and see.

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: And what is the wrong with the primitive?

Satsvarūpa: They think it's shocking that the way they used to live hundreds of years ago, they're still living. But in America...

Prabhupāda: So what improvement you have done, rascal?

Satsvarūpa: Motorcars, roads, buildings.

Prabhupāda: So what is benefit of motorcar?

Satsvarūpa: No benefit.

Prabhupāda: Motorcar benefit means you have to start big, big industries and neglect farming.

Gurukṛpa: In America they can say, "We have enough food. We have no shortage."

Prabhupāda: We are not thinking "We have." We are thinking how the human society is having.

Satsvarūpa: Well, they say "Let everyone help himself. We're taking care of ourselves."

Prabhupāda: But why not you? What is your humanity?

Gurukṛpa: So they say, "We work hard, and then they, they sit back."

Prabhupāda: So why do you make...? Who...? Who do you mean by "we"? It is, everything, belonging to Kṛṣṇa. You have plundered Kṛṣṇa's property. You won't allow others to come in. The Chinese, the Indians, they are congested. Why? What do you mean by "we"? It is your father's property? You have stolen Kṛṣṇa's property.

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gurukṛpa: That is like Australia. That is Australia.

Prabhupāda: Australia?

Gurukṛpa: Yes, the whole country is...

Prabhupāda: Wooden bridge.

Gurukṛpa: Roads like this. Just in Melbourne and Sydney, nice roads. I think I saw better roads in India. I was very surprised.

Prabhupāda: Thing is they do not know engineering. They have no business. (break)

Satsvarūpa: The modern young person thinks, "I don't want someone to tell me the truth. I don't want someone to pick out who my husband or wife is. I want to be free to experiment and find out for myself. Then I'll know."

Prabhupāda: But where is your freedom?

Satsvarūpa: That I don't have someone to tell me what to do. I will learn by my own experience.

Prabhupāda: Then why do you go to school? Huh?

Satsvarūpa: Well, nowadays school also, they don't think that the professor is like their guru.

Prabhupāda: After all, the parents send the children to school to learn. Why not freedom?

Room Conversation -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: And why not?

Gargamuni: I'd have to inquire, but I'm pretty sure it's managed by the government, because they're allowing us to enter the temple. There's also a place being offered in West Bengal. I personally went there and took photographs. It's in Kharampur.

Prabhupāda: Kharampur.

Gargamuni: Yes. It's near the Bangladesh border. It's about 80 kilometers north of Krishnanagar...

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Gargamuni: ...near the Bangladesh border. It's five miles... In fact, we took the wrong road and we almost went over the Bangladesh border.

Prabhupāda: Acchā?

Gargamuni: We went through the border almost by mistake, and the guards came with their guns. Our driver took the wrong road. But it's five miles from the Bangladesh border. And the property... There's a temple there of Gaura-Nitāi. (end)

Morning Walk -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: Very nice beach. So acquire this, yes.

Gargamuni: I'll see the D. M. (District Magistrate) this morning. There's still those other two plots...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: ...on the main road. I will show you.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: And on the other side of Purī there's a big beach area I will show you.

Prabhupāda: Dhīrādhīra-jana-priyau priya-karau. (break)

Gurukṛpa: This is much cleaner than down there where the tourist hotels are.

Prabhupāda: The first plot is very pleasing. It is all right. And you'll have very grand. Make road to sea, down to sea. (break) Now mostly people are adhīra. Therefore they cannot understand. Where is that Flagstaff? There is a house called Flagstaff. One can walk miles.

Hari-śauri: Yes. It's a very big beach.

Prabhupāda: Therefore tourists come here. (break) Then gradually you can develop. (break) ...Bajoriya house and that land.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: How far it is?

Guest (10): It is not even half kilometer.

Guest (9): In this village,

Prabhupāda: There is road?

Guest (9): Yes.

Prabhupāda: So we can go.

Satsvarūpa: You're already going tomorrow.

Prabhupāda: Where?

Satsvarūpa: That man who came, who you were supposed to go on the 26th, and he was changed.

Prabhupāda: Oh. The same program?

Guest (9): Yes. The same program also.

Satsvarūpa: You were recently initiated?

Guest (9): Yes.

Satsvarūpa: Oh. That's the same program. So that is already fixed with Gaura-Govinda. You spoke with him, Gaura-Govinda Mahārāja?

Prabhupāda: I take my lunch at half past one. So by that time... (end)

Room Conversation -- January 28, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Hari-śauri: Breaking off our one sweet. And no one's attending their āratis or...

Gurukṛpā: In Māyāpur now so many people come. The road is not big enough. The road is not big enough.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā?

Gurukṛpā: Yes. There's that many people coming. I could not believe. So many people. And just a regular weekend. We need one way in and one way out.

Prabhupāda: Big road.

Gurukṛpā: Yes. So many people coming, all respectable people.

Prabhupāda: Our gateways, you mean to say.

Gargamuni: This year we've noticed that more respectable people are coming, well dressed, from the areas.

Prabhupāda: That, er... Behind our new house, that Muhammadan wanted to sell that land. But if he wants to sell at our price, not his price, we can take it.

Room Conversation -- January 28, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: No, that land I shall use, if I take it, for another gate, in and out. That is my idea.

Gargamuni: Oh, I see

Gurukṛpā: We are putting a road in front of this new building. There's a road in front of the new building.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Gurukṛpā: There must be some walkway.

Gargamuni: Just like where the wall is? There's one little road for walking. So similarly, in front of the long, this new building, will be one road for walking.

Prabhupāda: Then you have to break these houses.

Gurukṛpā: No, it goes around.

Gargamuni: It goes around. Do you have that photograph? I'll show you.

Prabhupāda: So where is that photograph? Find out.

Gargamuni: I gave you one small photograph of the building.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Find out. I kept it in that, inside that booklet.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So immediately do it.

Gargamuni: Yes. And you can say, "Five, plus one by plane." 'Cause even if we go, we have to bring books, and you cannot bring so many books on the plane.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Oh, no.

Gargamuni: So we can bring these by road. There is a road there.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That will be nice, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So arrange for this.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: As many devotees...

Gargamuni: From Calcutta to Imphal by road we can go.

Prabhupāda: So he'll take the party. So manage tomorrow.

Gargamuni: And we can carry all the books and everything by road.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Do that. (break).

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So about a week will be all right, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, sometime in the middle.

Prabhupāda: Then we can arrange.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The climate, the weather, will be very nice.

Prabhupāda: Very nice. So make that arrangement

Gargamuni: All right. And we can go by road.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You go by road, and we go by plane. Or all of us, we can go by road. Is it possible? No.

Gargamuni: Well, the roads are not so good.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: A flight from here is only 220 rupees. And they're paying for six people, round trip.

Prabhupāda: Five hundred per head.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Ah, yes. About five hundred, a little less.

Hari-śauri: That's very nice.

Prabhupāda: So make that arrangement. We shall go. Very good.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Gargamuni: And maybe from there, on our way by road, we know some people in Shillong. And maybe from Imphal you can go to Shillong for some programs, in Shillong.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gargamuni: 'Cause that is important city, very big city.

Prabhupāda: Shillong is Assam.

Gargamuni: In Meghalaya

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's now Meghalaya. Yes.

Gargamuni: Now Meghalaya. But it used to be a British capital. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the children. They're not attacking the children. Otherwise they cannot keep four ferocious animal in a place. They'll fight and they will kill one in order to... You were at that time there?

Nanda-kumāra: No. I was in...

Prabhupāda: So you keep this later on, do the needful. (end)

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Just see. So you have discovered such thing that any moment you can die, every one. So therefore this is problem.

Hari-śauri: When we just drove down the road just now, when we went past, we saw some people holding a woman, and she was screaming and foaming at the mouth. Just further down the road there was the body of her husband on the road. He'd been squashed flat by a truck, and the body was still there. And the head... Head and arms...

Prabhupāda: Only danger. Padaṁ padaṁ yad vipadām (SB 10.14.58). Every step, simply danger, and we are proud of our scientific advancement. The aeroplane is scientific advancement, but the danger is also more. As soon as you crash, all are altogether... Without an aeroplane one or two men could die, but because you have made this scientific advancement, you all die.

Hari-śauri: Hundred at a time. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Hundred.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Together.

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So that is guru, mahātmā, who knows vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). Such mahātmā is guru. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, bhajanty ananya-manasaḥ (BG 9.13). The guru has no other business than kṛṣṇa-bhajana. So that you have to see. You have to learn. You have to appreciate with persons who are actually engaged in kṛṣṇa-bhajana. Then you'll understand. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgaḥ (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15). Sādhu means bhajate mām ananya-bhāk sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). He's sādhu. Who? Who has no other business than Kṛṣṇa. Mix with such sādhu who are actually executing kṛṣṇa-bhajana. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgaḥ. This is the description of the sādhu. Bhajate mām ananya-bhāk sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). These things are there. There is no question of being misled. But if you purposefully mislead yourself, who can check? In the beginning you may commit some mistake, but when you study Bhagavad-gītā—who is sādhu, who is mahātmā, who is guru—then why shall we make, commit mistake again? If you have done mistake—you have gone to a rascal who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious—then when you read Bhagavad-gītā, you can understand. Why you are misled? Why you should be misled? If it is written on the road, "Keep to the left," why should you be misled and go to the right? Go to the left. Then you are not misled. So here it is said, mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ (BG 9.13). A mahātmā means who is always engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Why do you accept somebody as mahātmā who does not speak about Kṛṣṇa? Then you are misleading yourself. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti (BG 7.19). Everything, direction, is there. Why you create your own mahātmā? If you want to be cheated, who can check you? That is your fault.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So we have to discuss so many things, immense field. Go out... (break) At least you have to accept that "I am blind." So how you can show others the path? You are blind.

Jayapatākā: By distributing your books, Śrīla Prabhupāda, then the people begin to realize that the scientists are blind. Once they begin to disbelieve and doubt the scientists, then the scientists themselves will also...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Jayapatākā: ...be able to come out with the truth.

Prabhupāda: When a common man will challenge them that "You are rascal. You are blind. You are showing us road?" Then it will be. I refuse to accept it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Also, first of all, we have to show that their theory...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara:...is wrong.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation on Roof -- February 14, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: ...with this lantern? Electricity was introduced when we were boy, and that also not every house could provide electricity. Formerly they used to utilize gas, coal gas. If one man has got gaslight in his house, he is considered to be rich man. And gas... Mantle... Formerly electricity was... What is that? Carbon? Two carbon? In the morning it has to be changed. That Mahatma Gandhi Road was Harrison Road. So in our childhood, when the carbon would be changed, they would throw. We shall collect it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What would you do with it?

Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, no, play. "We have collected something." So electricity was introduced in our life when we were ten, twelve years old. Before that, there was no electricity.

Brahmānanda: But still you were able to read.

Prabhupāda: With this lantern. With this.

Brahmānanda: Nowadays they think if there is no electricity then there can be no civilization.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So regarding the temple, we shall wait for the land acquisition decision or we shall begin without it? You have seen how the road is going to the site of temple?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We were planning... Brahmānanda and I just made plans for tomorrow morning to see certain lands that have newly been purchased, and we wanted to see everything tomorrow morning.

Prabhupāda: So I shall also go.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Really? Good. Jaya.

Prabhupāda: So we have to decide whether we shall wait or we shall begin in our own way.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, one point in favor of beginning is that Caitanya Mahāprabhu's five hundredth anniversary is approaching. Should...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Evening Darsana -- February 15, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Oh, I think about 1928, long ago, because about twenty years ago there was centenary, hundred years. So the local produce was not exported. Everything was cheap in the village because you have to consume. Whatever is produced in the village you have to consume. And these Britishers, they introduced railway and drew everything in the village to the town. And they would not sell in the village because they would get good price in the city. Otherwise in the village, everything was very cheap, very, very cheap-milk, vegetables, rice, dāl, everything. And the Britishers, they had no food. They have got only the potato. In England what they produce? No food. So everything was exported. Their policy was to supply manufactured goods and take raw materials from India. So they supplied cotton goods. They saw that all Indians are using cotton cloth. Iron they introduced. They introduced railway line, all iron, the carriage, the wheel, the road. Everything was... In this way they became prosperous. And the Indian people, they saw... They were educated because they are fond of going to pilgrimage by walking. They would go... Suppose from here, Navadvīpa, one has to go to Vṛndāvana. He would make his will, because he does not know whether he'll come back or not. Long distance, thousand miles, you have to go by, on leg. They used to go. So they were advertised that "No. Now you'll have not to walk. The Company, they're making very easy going railway." So they received it, "Oh! (Hindi)" (laughs) But their idea was to draw all the raw materials from villages and send it to England.

Morning Room Conversation -- February 16, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: You have been in Vṛndāvana?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Not yet. Last time was two years ago.

Prabhupāda: That building is also coming very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gurukula.

Prabhupāda: Gurukula. Very gorgeous and nice. And if there are gates and road in our name, (laughing) that will be unique in India. Then people will come to Vṛndāvana to see our... Nowadays also, they are coming to see our temple. Anyone who comes. That prasāda distribution is going on in the evening?

Devotee: Daily.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That must be done. Anyone who comes to see the ārati, at least two puris, little vegetable, halavā should be given. Prasāda distribution should go on everywhere. Who said that that is my trick? Who was...?

Hari-śauri: He was just saying last night.

Prabhupāda: Oh, somebody...

Hari-śauri: Secret weapon.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Huh? Suitcase stolen?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Calcutta at the... There's a big hotel at the airport, and he left his bags there, three bags. And when he came back, one of them was gone with all of his wife's jewelries. Hindustan Hotel, I think it's called. Yeah, Hindustan, that big airport hotel. When you go down to Māyāpur by that road there's a big hotel near the airport.

Prabhupāda: I do not remember, but may be.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So. Anyway, he's lodged a complaint with the Tea Board because he's a big tea importer, so he has connections. So he's lodged a complaint with the Tea Board. They're so dishonest. Even this is the five-star hotel. It's a big hotel in Calcutta, one of the two or three best, and they're so dishonest that as soon as a foreigner comes, they can figure out where the valuables are and they steal it. And most people will let them get away with it. He may not, because he's got so many connections. But it's so dishonest. Even they make an attempt to cultivate tourism and be professional but-spoiled.

Prabhupāda: Hotels are always unreliable. They have got duplicate key.

Evening Darsana -- February 24, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: The crowd is the same? No. Diminished.

Jayatīrtha: Well, the crowd that's in Trafalgar Square is mostly there already. That's the thing, because there's always people in Trafalgar Square. So when the Ratha-yātrā comes they stay and they make benefit by ajñāta-sukṛti. But the number of people that are out in the parade is not very great. I've been thinking how it can be increased, because they keep us in one small lane about as wide as this room along this road, and they make you have this small cart, and the people are spread out for so long. A lot of Hindus come, but sometimes they are so far away from the cart it's hard to keep the kīrtana very nice, so they can't see the Deities. And after being in San Francisco for so many years at the Ratha-yātrā, I didn't feel so enthusiastic. That San Francisco festival is so elevated, so wonderful. Therefore I was thinking that if we could move it...

Hṛdayānanda: (indistinct)

Jayatīrtha: Not in the same way.

Pañcadraviḍa: Do we use like a marching band in the Ratha-yātrā? If we used a marching band, a lot of people come, like a parade, like they use in the parades with trumpets and drums and all these things.

Prabhupāda: I think you can introduce in Africa also. (laughter)

Room Conversation With Artists and About BTG -- February 25, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yayāti.

Rāmeśvara: ...how he was cursed to lose his youthfulness and so on.

Prabhupāda: Śukrācārya.

Rāmeśvara: This first sketch shows Śiva and Pārvatī are passing on the road. These women were bathing, and they are running to cover themselves. And this is the beginning of the fight between the women over the clothing, and Śukrācārya's daughter was thrown into a well.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: Then because of that, Yayāti was cursed, because later on, the woman that threw her into the well, he, she became like a mistress.

Prabhupāda: Yes. They were friends. Then they became rivals. Hm. So that's all right.

Rāmeśvara: Then this is the painting showing Śukrācārya and his daughter, and they're cursing Mahārāja Yayāti. What's happening here is that...

Prabhupāda: No, Śukrācārya's cloth is why long? So?

Rāmeśvara: Too long.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Therefore...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's my first experience. The man whom I met in Bombay is the head of the chemistry section of the Balai(?) Atomic Research Center where they made this atomic bomb.

Prabhupāda: Fedder. Fedder Road.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: In Trombay.

Prabhupāda: Oh, Trombay. Oh, yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. So I went there, and I had three and a half hours discussion.

Prabhupāda: Hm. Very good.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But he was on the other side.

Prabhupāda: Opposite side.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. (laughs)

Hari-śauri: Demon.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Let them demon, but we are talking like gentleman.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: And recruit Indian scientists. Make it. It will be very nice. Let us go to Bombay and organize.

Rūpānuga: Because India now has the bomb, they are respected.

Bali-mardana: Atom bomb.

Prabhupāda: No, Indian people are more intelligent. There is no doubt about it. I... At least I see that during British period there were so many railway collisions. Now it is not there.

Bali-mardana: So many what?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Railway collisions, and now there is none with the Indian drivers. Oh, yeah. We don't find... Although the roads are horrible here and there's no lights, there are very few accidents.

Prabhupāda: That I have studied already, that British period, occasionally so many railway accidents. But the Indian people, since svarāja, I see no railway accidents. And they are being managed, these railway lines, by śūdra class, less-intelligent class. So they are so intelligent.

Rūpānuga: Compared to the British.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They sent their best men here.

Prabhupāda: The fireman, Indian driver, the signal man, they are not very high class men.

Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But you... For me you make good arrangement wherever I live, that's all. But I know how you were living in that nasty hut, full of dirty things, mosquito, rats, dropping of water. And Nyer is attacking, municipality attacking.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You always said that we were so trained that we would even live on the roadside.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That you are trained. (laughs) You don't care for this palace or underneath a tree.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Formerly we were living like that as hippies, and now we live like that to serve you.

Prabhupāda: I was living in Rādhā-Dāmodara temple. It was not a palace. But before that, I was living in a palace. That is Keśī-ghāṭa. But this Gosāi called me that "You live here?" And "All right." Svarūpa Dāmodara Gosvāmī's, er, yes, Jīva Gosvāmī's place. "Let me go there." Now organize. Make very good plan that our Bombay temple will be always crowded with thousands of men and some program must go on.

Room Conversation -- March 24, 1977, Bombay:

Karttikeya Mahadevia: It is not personal. My mother was personally with his son, and they were in the same school. So he knew him for last thirty, forty years. My wife's sister and Mr. Morarji Desai were working in the same cabinet in Bombay in 1955. (indistinct) Śrīla Prabhupāda, would you like to take that tulasī and (indistinct) in afternoon? Only once, one serving.

Pañcadraviḍa: We can bring some ḍābs from down the road if you like.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I have already ḍāb.

Karttikeya Mahadevia: I'll bring it.

Prabhupāda: Nobody speaks about Indira Gandhi. (laughter)

Room Conversation -- March 26, 1977, Bombay:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The goal of life is different. Those who accuse us, they don't know that goal.

Prabhupāda: Nobody knows goal. Everyone is living like animal. Many other goal. They do not know. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). This is the modern civilization. They do not know what is the goal of life. And without knowing the goal of life, they are trying to adjust things on this material platform. That will never happen. Durāśayā. Now suppose this race... On the road we see so many four-wheel cars racing. Does it mean this will solve the problems of life? What is the difference? If the dog is running and I am also running in a four-wheel car, so where is the difference? (Hindi) What is the difference? Is that advancement of civilization because I am in a four-wheel Mercedes car and the dog is running on the street? He will also die, I will die, and he will have to change, he'll also change body, I have to change body. Next life, I may be a dog like that. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). My problem is how to stop this business, how to get my real life. So one who is interested in real life, why he should join the dog race? It is all dog race. And they are taking it as advancement of knowledge. That is not advancement. They do not know how to stop. Nature will not excuse you. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22). If you associate with certain type of modes of material nature, then you will have to accept the next body accordingly. The nature will not excuse you. The business is that I have got this human form of life. I must fully utilize it how to get out of these problems. That is life.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That plan sentence.(?)

Girirāja: Yeah. And that road, that ten feet.

Prabhupāda: What benefit they will get?

Girirāja: No, only harassment, they have... They have nothing to gain actually. And everyone knows it. But they are just so weak and political minded that they don't want to stand up against Mattrey, the officers. Anyway, I think I should go now then.

Prabhupāda: He is coming?

Girirāja: Yes. I'll bring him here so there will be no unnecessary waiting. And...

Prabhupāda: What time?

Girirāja: By eight at the latest. We'll try for earlier also. (break)

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya.

Room Conversation -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They are, after all, Mathurā men, after Kṛṣṇa. They have got natural love for Kṛṣṇa.

Dhanañjaya: Also the decoration was very gorgeous in the temple. All the domes were lit, and in the front door two cakras and one lotus flower, opening and closing. Thousands of people were coming daily to attend it. We inherited all the American devotees that come. So they were very anxious to see the arrangements made. Also the signs are up on the road, Bhaktivedanta Swami Marga. Big marble plaque. Very nice stone fitting. In two places on the road.

Prabhupāda: On all the roads.

Dhanañjaya: Everyone knows, this is now Bhaktivedanta Swami Marga. No longer Chattikara Road.

Prabhupāda: But you have printed Bhaktivedanta Marga.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhaktivedanta Swami Marga.

Prabhupāda: No. In the book, I see. Why?

Devotee: Bhaktivedanta Road.

Dhanañjaya: Well, you see, what happened was, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they put it in Hindi Bhaktivedanta Swami Marga. And the marble cutters, they made mārga instead of road.

Prabhupāda: That doesn't matter.

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: How to go up there?

Guru dāsa: Well, Ahmedabad...

Prabhupāda: No, to...

Guru dāsa: There's car...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Zig-zag road.

Prabhupāda: Zig-zag. How long it takes?

Guru dāsa: By car, from Ahmedabad, because you can take the plane to Ahmedabad.

Prabhupāda: All through hills only?

Guru dāsa: No. The hill starts at a place called Abu Road. That takes about an hour by car.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How long to Abu Road?

Guru dāsa: By Ahmedabad? Two or three hours.

Prabhupāda: By car.

Guru dāsa: From Ahmedabad to Abu Road about two or three hours.

Prabhupāda: By train.

Guru dāsa: Train also goes, three hours.

Prabhupāda: So how we shall utilize it?

Guru dāsa: Well, I was mostly thinking for your health, if you wanted it.

Prabhupāda: Now I am trapped. I am trapped here.

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Bhavānanda: Very hot.

Prabhupāda: No, Simla is not hot. This Srinagar is not hot. I know that. I went there. I know. When I crossed, there was snow on the road. So when Guru dāsa will send his report?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: As soon as he meets Dr. Karan Singh. I told him to make detailed arrangements and give detailed report. You are eager to go there, I think.

Prabhupāda: Not very eager. I was eager only that if I simply get regular appetite, then the..., I can get some strength to work, that's all. So ask them to give me little orange.

Bhavānanda: Our only concern is that in the traveling to get to a place where you may get some strength—may not—that you will lose strength in the traveling. Without a guarantee.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's a fact.

Bhavānanda: You would like some orange, Śrīla Prabhupāda? Anything else?

Prabhupāda: A little salt.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Having Bhavānanda around is... (break)

Prabhupāda: (telling story?) You have taken my watch.

Girirāja: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So bring it now. (laughter) All right, I am going to hand over to police. Very good. He has smuggled it. And the police came. So he was going to arrest them. He was astonished. (break) (end)

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: These rascals, wherever they go, they create trouble.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (reading:) "Why she was silent." This is from the Readers View column. "In the farewell talk she gave to the outgoing Communist Party members of Parliament, Mrs. Indira Gandhi is reported to have told them that she was to blame for the rout, but she does not mention what is common talk among people everywhere, and especially among the village folk: her connivance at the build-up of her son Sanjay Gandhi as the probable future prime minister of India. Mrs. Indira Gandhi's refusal throughout the last two years to face the facts about her son's inordinate ambitions has shocked most of her admirers. Could she not see that this get-rich-quick son of a mother who swore by Garibihato, as the person running the maruti,(?) was playing ducks and drakes with money taken in advance from motor agents for a people's car which has still to come on the road? Was she unaware that he was put next to the late president of India on the flagship of the Indian navy at the naval parade, though he has no position in the government of our country? And is it possible that she did not know of his interference from her own house in the exercise of executive authority in many matters of appointments? Did she not see newspaper reports of vast gatherings often paid for and brought to the pandals by her chief ministers to provide an audience and popular build-up for the Raj Kumar, as he came to be called? Those of us who knew her father are sanguined that Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru could never have allowed himself to entertain a dynastic order."

Prabhupāda: He wanted.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Lokanātha: The requisition finished in next few minutes.

Prabhupāda: How many minutes? They have been detaining few minutes. Just bring immediately. You cannot detain all these important men. They have got other business.

Mr. Rajda: No, there is no other thing. Only thing, the roads are functioning, Bombay, and I have to visit them.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "To Ratansingh Rajda, Member of Parliament, Bombay. Dear Sri Rajda, We thank you very much for visiting us at Hare Krishna Land and for sympathetically hearing our divine master Śrīla Prabhupāda. His Divine Grace mentioned several difficulties which are impeding his great work, and you have been kind enough to promise to remove these obstacles. 1) Our men are regularly being asked to leave India. How can we manage such important projects when our men are forced to leave? Every year we have to send so many men away from India and then again we have to bring them back. For every man who comes and goes like this, we have to spend Rs. 10,000, and in this way we are wasting not less than Rs. five to six lakhs each year. Our men should be given permanent residence in India. The United States Government granted Śrīla Prabhupāda a permanent residency visa so that he could fulfill his mission in the USA. Similarly, Śrīla Prabhupāda's foreign disciples should be given permanent residency in India. Śrīla Prabhupāda requires at least one hundred men to remain in India, and he is prepared to bring Rs. ten lakhs, foreign exchange, per month just to maintain them. They will not have to seek employment, they are not interested in politics, and they will not touch one paisa locally for their maintenance. Rather, they will bring money. Therefore we request that the government of India should grant permission for at least one hundred of our men. 2) Locally we are being troubled by the municipal corporation. The local councilor is trying to take over ten feet..." (break)

Mr. Rajda: ...evening. And we shall see what is in the meeting. And I am meeting the commissioner also on Tuesday. So...

Prabhupāda: Note it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'll do that.

Morning Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So impress this point to Mr. Rajda.

Girirāja: Mr. Rajda himself in his letter wrote that this ten feet will be of no benefit either to the Municipality, either to the public, but it will only disturb us.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's already a road. So what more do they want? We're not blocking anything.

Prabhupāda: So...

Girirāja: Now the only thing is that they may ask for some type of compensation.

Prabhupāda: We shall give something to them, but we shall give.

Girirāja: Because technically, although there's no reason to it, but technically it is in their name right now.

Prabhupāda: We shall give whatever Rajda will settle with them.

Girirāja: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Dwivedi: About three hours or two hours and half, something like that. Seventy-five miles.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What kind of road is it?

Mr. Dwivedi: Pardon?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What kind of road?

Mr. Dwivedi: Road?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What kind of road? Good road?

Mr. Dwivedi: Car road.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Car road.

Mr. Dwivedi: Yes, throughout.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Winding? No.

Mr. Dwivedi: No. That, little winding.

Prabhupāda: So why not go by train to Jhansi?

Mr. Dwivedi: The same thing. It's equidistant from Gwalior and Jhansi. If you... Jhansi... I say Gwalior because there is plane service. There is no plane service to Jhansi.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then from Jhansi to here, how many...?

Mr. Dwivedi: Same, seventy-five miles. As from Gwalior, so from Jhansi.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Two and a half, three hours.

Prabhupāda: Seventy-five miles, it is two hours. That's all.

Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 23, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Two and a half, three hours.

Prabhupāda: Seventy-five miles, it is two hours. That's all.

Mr. Dwivedi: Yes, about two hours...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If it's a good road, two hours.

Mr. Dwivedi: So also from Savaimadapur(?), equidistance.

Prabhupāda: So by train, where it is convenient?

Mr. Dwivedi: If we travel by car, then Gwalior will be better. Or even if we get down at Jhansi, that will also be very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Which is better by car, from Gwalior or Jhansi?

Mr. Dwivedi: Just the same. Just the same. Gwalior will be slightly convenient in this way that you get down at Gwalior, then I have my own house at Gwalior, so at our own house we have little rest, take our food and then start. The plane also reaches there from Bombay, say, about 12:30 or so.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: A direct flight between here and Gwalior? Direct?

Indian man: No, that is via Indore...

Mr. Dwivedi: Indore, Bhopal, Gwalior. That's it.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Then we get rest the whole night.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, we get rest for, say, twelve hours' rest. But then you have to travel again to go to Pauri district, which may be exhausting.

Kārttikeya: Seventy-five miles.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I can't say what... I mean, we don't know. It's a winding road. It may get you tired for traveling.

Prabhupāda: Winding?

Mr. Dwivedi: Not very winding. There are two roads. There are two roads. There is is one road which is little winding. There is another road, but we have to travel eighteen miles more. Not winding, Agra-Bombay road. So there is a straight Agra-Bombay road also. But we have to take an extra eighteen miles more drive.

Kārttikeya: Eighty?

Mr. Dwivedi: Eighteen. One-eight.

Prabhupāda: So that is not...

Mr. Dwivedi: So we can take either. And even this is not so very zig-zaggy and we are... No, not much. Not much.

Prabhupāda: But anyway, we are going to hold session on Sunday.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Good place.

Mr. Dwivedi: So this is a mile's, hardly, less than a mile's distance from our colony. And the river it is perennial river. We have to just cross it, and it gives good passage, particularly during this season. All seasons practically we go and go over the mountain and the temple. Then, on the roadside itself near our colony, there is a water temple. We call it Jagamandir(?). That is also a beautiful temple. It's like the (indistinct) type. And one story of that temple is always in the water. Even in the summer, when Your Holiness will go there, Your Holiness will find. And that is Kṛṣṇa's temple.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Mr. Dwivedi: And some of the photographs which were shown to me yesterday, I find the ditto in that temple, Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa's temple.

Prabhupāda: Good place.

Mr. Dwivedi: This is the... I think I got a view of that temple.

Prabhupāda: Good engagement. So Kārttika, you are coming?

Kārttikeya: If you're not going to Kashmir, I'll come with you.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Kārttikeya: If you are not going to Kashmir for the month of May...

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Conversation: Bogus Gurus -- April 25, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So the cheaters are there. If our men are cheated, if they agree to be cheated, how can I stop them? In Vṛndāvana also they have done like that, the bābājīs.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Same way.

Prabhupāda: Nitāi is victim.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Rādhā-kuṇḍa. And in Vṛndāvana also. That Jagannātha dāsa was telling you, remember, how he met some bābājī coming on the road.

Prabhupāda: So there are cheaters, and if one wants to be cheated, how we can stop?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Actually this makes me feel that it's very important that we have our temple in Bhuvaneśvara.

Prabhupāda: So you can publish this in our Back to Godhead. These things are going on. Devotees should be very careful not to be victimized by this cheater.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think I can write a letter to the "Letters to the Editors" column. That'll be the proper place.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Very good. What are...? Now, this man proclaimed himself to be "tīrtha-guru." What are some of the other ways that they will say? I remember Jagannātha was saying that he...

Prabhupāda: Tīrtha-guru, if he's able to take him to the temple, then tīrtha guru. Otherwise he's a goru, cow, tīrtha cow. That's all.

Morning Conversation -- April 30, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That means ignorance, rascals. They are busy with something which is not his business. Then next question will be: then what is his business? If they actually read Bhagavad-gītā, his business is that to find out: "If I am going to change my body, what I am going to be?" Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). The body, after being finished, this body, I am not dead. I am going to change another body. So is it not my duty? Just like if I go somewhere, you see how that place, how it will be suitable for me, how I shall live there. Is it not duty? Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). I am not going to die. That, if I leave this compartment, I'm not going to die. I'll accept another compartment. But shall I not see what kind of compartment will be, whether it is better than this or inferior than this? Is it not my duty? That is my real problem. Or the actual problem is that if I am eternal, why I shall change body now and then? This is my problem. And Kṛṣṇa says that "If anyone does not take up My instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā, then he does not get Me, and the result is that he'll again turn to this change of body, mṛtyu-saṁsāra-vartma..." So they are not careful about these things, so what do they understand about Bhagavad-gītā? The real problem they do not touch. And the body will change, and he'll live in India or in America, say, for fifty years. He's busy. That is cats, just like these cats and dogs at night. Nobody has given him charge, but he is thinking "I am in charge of the road. Why this put-put motorcar, you have come here? Go on. Go on. Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" But who has given him charge? But he's starving, and people are throwing stone upon him, but he's thinking "I am in charge of this business. Why at night this car has come?" Dog mentality. Is it not exactly like the dog? He's disturbing all others—"Gow, gow! Gow, gow, gow!"—but he's thinking that "I am in charge." Is it not dog dancing, these politicians, politics? Who cares for you? Gandhi or there, he has gone. Does it mean the world activities stop? Churchill was there. He has gone. Hitler was there.

Evening Darsana -- May 14, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: You cannot count how many there are. Now these, some of the jīvas, not all of them... Majority of them, they live in the spiritual world, just like majority of the population of the state, they live outside the prison house. Prison house means some of the citizens who are criminals, they are put into the jail. Similarly, these living entities who are criminals, means who have rebelled against the order of God, they are sent here, in this material world. So they are suffering one term after another. Therefore here is the chance, ayaṁ dehaḥ nṛloke. In the form of human body you can get out of it. Tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma (BG 4.9). This is chance. And therefore Ṛṣabhadeva says, "My dear boys, you don't spoil your life." "I am working and enjoying. I am not spoiling." "No, this kind of working is done by the cats and hogs." Kaṣṭān kāmān arhate viḍ-bhujāṁ ye: (SB 5.5.1) "For sense gratification the hogs and dogs, they also work very hard and then enjoy senses. So this body is not meant for that purpose." You are thinking that you are working so hard, karmī, and big, big skyscraper building and nice motorcar, nice roads. Electricity you have discovered. You are very advanced. Ṛṣabhadeva says, "This kind of advancement..." (break)...motorcar. "Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" Therefore He warns, "No, no, no, no. This is not civilization." Nāyaṁ deho deha-bhājāṁ nṛloke kaṣṭān kāmān (SB 5.5.1). "So much hard labor for sense gratification? This is not good." Then? What it is meant for? Tapo divyam. So human life is meant for tapasya, self-realization, ātma-śuddhi. Ātmā can be purified from the contamination of the material modes of nature by tapasya. That is real civilization. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvam. Your existence will be purified. Now your existence is not purified. Therefore you have to accept birth and death, old age and disease. It is not purified. So here is the chance to purify your existence. Tapo divyaṁ putrakā yena śuddhyet sattvaṁ yasmād brahma-saukhyam anantam. Brahman means the greatest, unlimited.

Short Dissertations -- May 24-25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We're not taping for any other purpose, but our Guru Mahārāja's words are very sacred to us, so we tape all the time, whether you're here or not here.

Prabhupāda: No, he has objection to the tape...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I'm just explaining that it's not any, er,... (break)

Bhavānanda: ...never leave the boundaries of our land and never go down the road to his place, but I...

Prabhupāda: No, they admit. He is Mādhava Mahārāja's man.

Bhavānanda: Fifteen-twenty men maybe, at the most. And when you go by there, it's like ghost town. (Prabhupāda chuckles) Now no action. You don't see anyone. You don't hear any sound. Therefore all the people, they walk right by and come right in our gate, where the taktaki is going, the boys are...

Prabhupāda: Here also, Mādhava Mahārāja temple, nobody goes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is this his temple here, in Vṛndāvana?

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is always closed. They are cooking.

Bhavānanda: And the photo exhibit is very popular. Everyone goes.

Prabhupāda: To see.

Short Dissertations -- May 24-25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: People are always saying "Work is worship." Actually they're almost right. Work for Kṛṣṇa is worship. I know that's why they're attracted to Māyāpur temple. Because there's so much work going on, people are attracted: "Why these people are so happy while they're working?" Especially the gurukula boys, sweeping the road hard as anything, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa while they're sweeping.

Prabhupāda: What about my house?

Bhavānanda: That money has just been received, and the plans have arrived from Delhi, but we are wanting an architect in Calcutta, competent architect to... Because we don't want to have anything go wrong in the middle. Ram Nrisinghatar(?) was saying that Mistri is interested in doing Prabhupāda's house. The house and gorgeous garden we have, with fountains and terraces and walkways, all around, before and behind the house, on either side, all enclosed and private.

Prabhupāda: Not yet begun?

Jayapatākā: They say there's no... Because we've just received the plan now from Saurabh, so the architect said there's no difficulty. Now he thinks we can begin right through the rainy season. We can work through the rainy season. There's no difficulty for that. If it was a big building, then in the rainy season we could not build.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How long it will take?

Bhavānanda: Six months.

Short Dissertations -- May 24-25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Jayapatākā: He loves his devotees even more than his devotees love him.

Prabhupāda: All right. Then you shall begin. Jaya. (break) Daily or alternately, (makes bleating sound:) "Myaaaḥ, myaaḥ." And there is religious process that the head should be eastern side and the throat should be cut up. And when the animal dies, bifurcate, cleanse it and the skin and everything... And they have got cāpāṭi. Government subsidizes. So they cook at home the meat, and in market they purchase a cāpāṭi according to the family, one big cāpāṭi, two cāpāṭi. That's all. Our men who has eaten that cāpāṭi, they say it is very nice, very soft and digesting. Huge deserted country, but some stock, some spots, water. There are trees. They raise the cattle there. Eighty percent of the land, all desert. Or ninety percent. No, eighty. Say seventy-five. And because they have got now money, they are having big, big buildings, foreign cars, roads in the air, developing. And they're importing at any cost. From Bombay the best mango they are importing at any cost.

Conversation Pieces -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Very happily. That is life. Eat very sumptuously nutritious food. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Bas. What is this nonsense life, from five o'clock in the morning driving big, big trucks, "Whoosh, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh..."? Is that life? In Berkeley... Berkeley? Or where is that? Where are our temple only?

Rāmeśvara: Yes, Berkeley.

Prabhupāda: So there is a road. Whenever you go, always trucks: "Whoosh, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh, whoosh, whoo, whoo, whoo..." The docks and ports filled up with all rubbish things. People are harassed. Is that life? And they are compensating by drinking, by illicit sex and meat-eating. Soul-killing civilization. Śīta ātapa bāta bariṣaṇa. You know this song? There is a song.

Ādi-keśava: Govinda dāsa. Bhaja Huṅre Mana.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Sing it. You know?

Ādi-keśava: Not all the words.

Prabhupāda: You know?

Jayapatākā: Most of it.

Srila Prabhupada Vigil -- May 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Impressed.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "We arrived at the courthouse and waited in the big hallway while the Reverend went through to the public gallery. The plainclothesman who arrested us soon turned up, now dressed in uniform. It took a little persuasion before they cautiously took some of Lord Nityānanda's prasāda in the form of cookies while we waited for our case to turn up." The devotees brought prasādam with them to the courtroom and were distributing. "A stir went... At last we were beckoned into the courthouse itself and ushered into the dock. A stir went around the assembly in the court. Shaven heads and saffron robes were the last thing anyone expected to see in Her Majesty's court on a Tuesday afternoon. The magistrate, a balding, portly man in his late middle age, a red nose in his dark grey suit, surveyed us over the top of his gold-rimmed spectacles. We affirmed our plea of not guilty to the clerk of the court, and one of the constables who was sworn in at the witness box proceeded to report the supposed conditions of our arrest. The actual number of the chanting nagara-saṅkīrtana party miraculously grew from the original five first of all to seven when he started his account, and later to eight persons when he described how three devotees ran off and escaped arrest. According to his description, it seemed that many more people had been using Oxford Street than we had been aware of. Indeed, unlimited numbers of pedestrians had been obstructed and forced into the road at the grave risk of being run over by the almost nonexistent traffic. The judge listened impartially and then, since we had no advocate to speak on our behalf, he asked if we would like to cross-examine the evidence of the policeman. When we humbly pointed out that the constable, like everyone else, had imperfect senses, that he had contradicted himself in assessing the actual number of devotees, the judge politely suggested that it was a mathematical error. A titter of laughter rippled around the courtroom at his remark, while the police constable shuffled his feet and looked embarrassed. We were asked if we ourselves would like to speak for our defense, so having been previously chosen as a spokesman, I volunteered to be sworn in at the witness box. Surprised when the usher asked me to hold a copy of Bhagavad-gītā, I read out the words of the card presented before me." He didn't swear on the Bible; he swore on the Bhagavad-gītā. " 'I swear by almighty Śrī Kṛṣṇa that the evidence I give shall be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.' Encouraged by smiles from the devotees in the dock, I began to describe the circumstances of our arrest, this time as they actually had happened. The magistrate listened as I went on to say, 'We understand that the police have a duty to perform, sir, but we also have a duty. We have been instructed by our spiritual master. Indeed, we are instructed by all the principle scriptures of the world, the Koran, the Toraḥ, the Bible, and in the Vedas, that we should glorify God by chanting His holy names. Whether you know the Lord by the name of Allah, Jehovah, Rāma, Govinda, or Kṛṣṇa, God is one.' 'Oh, quite so, quite so,' affirmed the magistrate. Encouraged, I went on. 'It is said in the Vedic scriptures, in the Bṛhad Nāradīya Purāṇa, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam (CC Adi 17.21).' 'In English. What does it mean in English?' the magistrate asked. 'Kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā. This is written in the Sanskrit language five thousand years ago. It means, "In the age of Kali, the present age of materialism and quarrel, there is no alternative, there is no alternative, there is no alternative for making positive spiritual advancement but the chanting of the holy name, the holy name, the holy name of the Lord." ' The judge, in fact the whole courtroom, sat there fascinated. I remembered Śrīla Prabhupāda's introduction..."

Prabhupāda: Bring some fruits.

GBC Meets with Srila Prabhupada -- May 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: This paper was started, one page, this. Now it has developed.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Now it's the biggest paper in this area, Hindi paper, Amara Jana(?). In Agra, Vṛndāvana, Mathurā. They have written about us several times. Even when the road was changed to Bhaktivedanta Swami Marg, we had a press conference—I was there—and they reproduced it that Chattikara Road name had been changed to Bhaktivedanta Swami Marg.

Prabhupāda: What is that photograph?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: They have one of your photographs.

Prabhupāda: Which one?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: On the right, walking on the beach, I think.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Transcendental autocrat."

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Lord Caitanya's picture is also there.

Bhakti-caru: (reads in Hindi about "Fifth Avenue Hare Kṛṣṇa Saṅkīrtana")

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Bali-mardana's picture is there. He was leading that kīrtana party then.

Bhakti-caru: Was it written by the same person who wrote this book?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no, no. No.

Bhakti-caru: I mean, this Caitanya Mahāprabhu Śikṣāmṛta.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: No.

Bhakti-caru: Somebody else.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah.

Bhakti-caru: Yet that style of writing is quite alike. (break)

Prabhupāda: When I go to Los Angeles I am in Vaikuṇṭha. When I am got to New York I am in Vaikuṇṭha. Wherever we have got temple, that is Vaikuṇṭha. So why shall I have objection? So do your duty nicely and see what Kṛṣṇa desires. Let it be fulfilled. But you do your duty. It is your duty to pray to Kṛṣṇa as affectionate children, and let Kṛṣṇa decide. And I have no objection, either.

Room Conversation -- June 18, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Where you take bath, just opposite.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. Right now there's nothing over there on that side.

Prabhupāda: So you have to arrange for that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, I see. We could buy... Actually there was some land being offered to us. It went right from the road all the way to the river. There was a strip of land belonging to that Gaura Mahārāja. Remember Gaura Mahārāja?

Prabhupāda: Ha, ha, ha.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So there was one piece of land he had. There's a little temple there. And it goes all the way from the road right up to the Gaṅgā. So we could have a little ghāṭa there, and the boat would dock. Yeah, that's a very good idea because if it goes from where the other boats go, then the boat wallas will cause trouble. But now they... They could not protest if we make our own place.

Prabhupāda: Arrange like that. You have understood?

Śatadhanya: Yes, Prabhupāda.

Talk with Svarupa Damodara -- June 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So this can be given to the Deities, these flowers.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They're very nice. Are they scented?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Some... We have another one. It has 108 petals exactly. It's white when full bloomed. Just started, this monsoon. The full season will come sometime in August, August and September. Lotus are everywhere, these flowers, on either side of the road, and all lakes full of lotuses.

Prabhupāda: Pineapple, your country is famous for pineapple.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Pineapple is very sweet. This is another season, but in about three weeks the larger variety will come. This is a little smaller type. The bigger ones, big. And it is green outside, but it's very sweet, full of juice. The hillsides all covered with pineapples, and it's very cheap.

Prabhupāda: So Calcutta, there was rain.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, yes. The farming is very good this time in our side, Bengal and Assam and Manipur, so much rain from the south. And I saw from the plane that everything is already green.

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Why you are breathing? Is it necessary? (break)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But he doesn't want to speak.

Prabhupāda: You have asked him already?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, I said, "We are coming in September," so he's... We'll be giving lectures there.

Room Conversation with Vrindavan De -- July 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Today? Dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra nirmatsarāṇām (SB 1.1.2).

Prabhupāda: No, no. Munayaḥ sādhu pṛṣṭo 'haṁ bhavadbhir loka-maṅgalam, kṛṣṇa-sampraśno yenātmā suprasīdati (SB 1.2.5). Happiness is there. Unless you become Kṛṣṇa conscious, there is no question of... This is a false happiness, that "If I get money, I'll be happy." That is false. So many men, they have got money. We see practically. The whole European civilization, American civilization, is based on this fundamental idea that "Let us have money and we shall be happy." And nobody is happy. Nobody is happy, a single man. Very big, big buildings, very nice car, very nice road, but there is no question of happiness. Always restlessness. Is it not? They are practically proved. And becoming implicated, karma-bandha, loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9), one after another, one after another. Because he is not independent, he is under karma-bandhana. If you touch fire, it must burn you. You cannot avoid it. That is not possible. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sar... (BG 3.27), ahaṅkāra-vimūḍha. Are you independent? Suppose if you touch fire, are you independent that your finger will not burn? It must burn. So you'll search after so much so-called happiness—they're simply burning their finger, that's all. Karma-bandhanaḥ. Yajñārthe karmaṇo 'nyatra loko 'yaṁ karma-bandhanaḥ (BG 3.9). So I'm insisting you about this distribution of the book. That is a service. If you can do some pushing on these books some way or other, you get material profit; at the same time, it is service.

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Anywhere.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Any street.

Prabhupāda: Nowhere is safe. Some boys may come and attack you and take... Nobody will... Is it not like that? Neither at home, neither on the road... You are not safe.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Imagine, in Māyāpur we have 250 devotees, and still they attacked.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In Māyāpur we have 250 people. What family has 250 people? If 250 people and there's danger, then what to speak of a family man with only a few people in the family? That means they're ready to attack any number of people. There are so many dacoits.

Prabhupāda: No, therefore they came in number, three hundred.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And it was very organized, they said. At night they came.

Vrindavan De: They can refer the matter to the Home Department. He's the Home Minister, I think, that Jyoti Bose. He is Chief and Home. He's controlling the police powers and force. (Bengali) Take action.

Prabhupāda: They must be doing something.

Room Conversation about Mayapura Attack Talk with Vrindavan De -- July 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Vrindavan De: The Chief Secretary.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Another help you can get is from the embassies. American Embassy has to give protection to its citizens. All foreign embassies have to give full protection. Actually that's a very good road to take, because if the foreign embassies put in complaints, then it becomes international thing. Then the Central Government will get very upset and direct the West Bengal Government to stop this from reoccuring "Because we are getting complaints from foreign governments now that we can't give protection to foreigners who are here in this country."

Prabhupāda: So give them the instruction.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They should complain to the Consulate, American Consulate, and Consulate will complain to the Embassy. Once we get the full information then we can take action here in Delhi also. At this point we don't have enough information. This is a very good road to take. Go to the American Embassy in Delhi and say, "We want protection. We are American citizens. We want protection. We're being attacked in Bengal. You must put pressure on the government to give us protection." And they'll do that surely. Plus they have to start an investigation to expose who has done this. That has to also be brought up. I'm sure Jayapatākā is... Śrīla Prabhupāda, should we go and take our breakfast?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want Vrindavan to stay for a while?

Prabhupāda: No, he (indistinct). (Bengali conversation about going around Vṛndāvana) I shall give you car. (Bengali). So if you do business, I'll give you car. Not for luxury. (conversation continues in Bengali) (end)

Room Conversation-Recent Mail -- July 14, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Read the covering.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's pretty much the whole thing.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Pamphlet.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, it's a pamphlet. Should I read it to you? It says, "Bhaktivedanta Book Trust Encyclopedia Department, Hare Kṛṣṇa Land, Juhu Road, Juhu, Bombay. In 1970 His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda founded the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust for worldwide printing and publishing of Vedic knowledge. Today the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust publishes in twenty-five languages with total of 55,000,000 publications printed in six years." Phew! Fifty-five million! That means an average of nearly ten million a year, pieces of literature. No other publishing house can boast that, I don't think, such a big amount. "The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust offices are located in Los Angeles, New York, London, Paris, Frankfurt, and Bombay. Śrīla Prabhupāda has..."

Prabhupāda: You can send one copy to Dr. Kapoor by post.

Room Conversation -- October 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, do you want tilaka?

Bhagatji: From Delhi, only day before yesterday the road was clear. Again it is raining. Delhi to Mathurā, that road.

Brahmānanda: The road is clear?

Bhagatji: Because it was blocked.

Hari-śauri: It was blocked. Yesterday they got through, but only just. The day before it was blocked. Now today again it's raining.

Prabhupāda: The buses stopped?

Bhagatji: Buses stopped, Prabhupāda, taxis stopped. Only they are allowing some cars to go. Yesterday only car could go.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But the planes were on strike. The planes were not going either. In Bombay no planes were leaving. We were lucky to get the first-class train.

Hari-śauri: The road is very bad though, anyway. It wouldn't have been passable, not for Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It would have taken three to four hours to go by car from Delhi in this condition. And bumpy. The train journey was not so bad, I think, not so bad. The weather was nice.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) (break) ...water for drinking?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Upendra Prabhu? Is there a drink for Prabhupāda?

Hari-śauri: Mung jal is ready.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's ready. Yes, we prepared mung water. Praṇava's wife, she was cooking with Kulādri today. She prepared two things, mung jal and the water from spinach. So that's supposed to be very good also. Would you like to try? Praṇava said that the feature of the spinach water is that it's very good for strength and very easily digestible. That's what he said. You might like to try something of both.

Prabhupāda: There is fresh milk? Half water, half milk.

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Wrote it?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We have to call them to confirm that we will be going. Should we utilize the car, Śrīla Prabhupāda, or go in the train?

Prabhupāda: No, you can go by car.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The road is open. Upendra is here now. Should we give him the kismis(?) to make?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Upendra...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Here's the kismis. Prabhupāda said mix with honey and smash.

Prabhupāda: Four kismis.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Whole kismis.

Prabhupāda: Not whole. Four.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Four kismis.

Prabhupāda: And equal quantity, honey. Make a paste.

Haṁsadūta: Equal quantity, honey.

Prabhupāda: Little honey. Not very much.

Room Conversation -- October 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Second gate, how much?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: First gate is thirty thousand. The temple was going to arrange to pay. Second gate is bigger, forty-five thousand.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's bigger. The road is bigger.

Prabhupāda: So let it be finished.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The first one. And if it's finished nicely, are we prepared to give them money for that?

Prabhupāda: Yes, why not?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. But before taking up work, let them finish one. Let us see how it looks. Okay.

Upendra: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Would you like some mint tea now? I have the mint tea, that podina chāy.

Prabhupāda: What is the benefit?

Upendra: It's... You might like the taste, and it's very simple. It's not complicated or anything, certainly not mucus-forming, and it's cooling and refreshing to drink. It's just a nice drink and very simple.

Prabhupāda: So, Tamāla Kṛṣṇa?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Room Conversation -- October 6, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: I can see them.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want to sit up, Śrīla Prabhupāda? (break)

Kīrtanānanda: This looks like the king coming to his palace. We are building now a large wall about fourteen feet high all along the road.

Prabhupāda: Here is the palace.

Kīrtanānanda: Yes. It has a big dome on the top. Here's a better picture of it, closer. This was on vyāsa-pūjā day. All the devotees were there offering respects to Your Divine Grace.

Prabhupāda: Do it very nicely. (break) ...unique testament.

Kīrtanānanda: All of this detail work, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is being done in gold leaf on white background. This is all marble. This is the main temple room and kīrtana hall. The columns are being covered with marble cut in patterns like this.

Prabhupāda: It will be a very... What is called? Attractive spot? What is called? It will be tourist?

Kīrtanānanda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- October 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is this more water than that seven or eight...

Bhavānanda: No. Then it came over the road.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, right. It didn't come over the road.

Bhavānanda: It didn't enter into the temple. It entered up to the temple stairs.

Prabhupāda: Which water?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Which water? The rainwater, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Bhavānanda: There was no... Because the river was high, so it rained so much... In June it rained for nineteen days without stopping. It had nowhere to drain, and every time it rained after that it kept building up, building up. The Gaṅgā was just fifteen inches below Bhaktisiddhānta Road, fifteen inches from the top.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How many boys are in the Gurukula now?

Bhavānanda: Now there're eighty-six boys in the Gurukula.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Eighty-six. How many residents are there at Māyāpur now?

Bhavānanda: We've thinned out.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How many?

Bhavānanda: There's 160 including Gurukula. After the incident we lost some devotees.

Prabhupāda: How many?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How many did you lose?

Bhavānanda: About twenty, twenty-five.

Room Conversation -- October 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "...the appropriate chemical into himself to check death..." Let him make himself deathless. "And restore his old and worn-out body with youthful luster and beauty. He may find this task too difficult, so perhaps he could just produce a simple form of life like a mosquito or a bedbug. Better still, let him recombine the chemicals of the praying mantis he decapitated, as described in his article, and bring it back to life. Or, is the science of Dr. Kovoor only a one-way road of destruction of life? But it may be that science is not yet ready to produce a finished product of life, so he could make a plastic egg and inject into it the yellow and white chemical substances, incubate such an artificial egg and thereby produce one chicken, which could then go on laying eggs and producing more and more chickens. Even this task may be a little too difficult for Dr. Kovoor, so perhaps he could simply produce a drop of milk or a grain of rice or an ounce of gold by chemical combination. Then we could begin to take him seriously. However, everyone knows that these are impossible tasks for even the most powerful so-called scientist. Dr. Kovoor will undoubtedly give the reader in his next exposition a long-winded barrage of words to cover up his bluff. The sum and substance of it will be, 'We will do it in the future. We are trying.' In any language, this is just a bluff."

Purī Mahārāja: Bluff.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Haṁsadūta Swami was preaching.

Purī Mahārāja: Yes. He's a Singhalese. I don't think he's a Singhalese.

Haṁsadūta: No. He's a Tamil.

Purī Mahārāja: His name...

Haṁsadūta: He's a Tamil from South India.

Purī Mahārāja: Christian.

Haṁsadūta: His father was a minister.

Purī Mahārāja: Yes. Proper dose you have given. Kṛṣṇa must bless him.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then he gave him big challenge. "Rupees five lakhs' challenge to Dr. Kovoor."

Purī Mahārāja: (laughs) Dr. Kovoor. He cannot be called as "doctor." How could he be a doctor?

Haṁsadūta: Quack. Quack doctor.

Prabhupāda: There is a story. A bridegroom was selected. So, the other party, bride's party, they inquired how the bridegroom was quite qualified. So they said, "He's a doctor." Then they inquired, "What kind of doctor? Doctor of philosophy, doctor of medicine or...?"

Room Conversation With Dr. Ghosh -- October 16, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Rocket bus?

Dr. Ghosh: Ha, from Siliguri to Calcutta. It usually takes twelve hours, but the road was so bad that it took sixteen hours to come to Calcutta. From Siliguri to Calcutta. Then Calcutta we were delayed. We couldn't get the first flight, second flight... Couldn't rest. With greatest difficulty, third flight we came this morning. Otherwise we would have reached yesterday, last night.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali)

Dr. Ghosh: Our name was in the waiting list. They would not give, do it. Anyway, we have reached.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Anyway, now it is good that you have come.

Dr. Ghosh: You should measure his urine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We do. We do that. We have kept a record for two months now of everything that he takes in and passes out.

Prabhupāda: You can show him the record? Huh? (pause)

Hari-śauri: Pomegranate juice, then this...

Dr. Ghosh: Rajule.(?) Expectorant. Expectorant. There are two kinds. His urine report?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I have just sent for the detailed urine report. I sent for it. It will just be coming. Just coming. But daily, you can see, this is how much he's taking in, this is how much urine is going out.

Doctor Visit and Conversation -- October 20, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Then they'll have to vacate.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: See, once they pay corporation taxes, they can claim tenancy. And a tenant... I can give you an example. In Calcutta, in Albert Road, where we currently have our temple, it was being rented by one member friend. Then he let Jayapatākā stay there, and then we took over. Of course, he was paying rent, but still, they can also be looked upon as a tenant because they'll be paying taxes.

Prabhupāda: Then you pay tax. Cut down from their pension. Huh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it could be done.

Prabhupāda: We pay, and you cut down. Other tenants are there. But not tenants-occupier. What they are doing?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, they're going to pay corporation taxes. See, we're the actual owners of the flat. There's no other instance like this. The other people who own the flats, they live in it. But we don't live in it; they live in it. So the flat is owned by us, but if they pay taxes and stuff, they're going to get the receipts in their name. I don't think they're going to get the receipts in your name.

Prabhupāda: Why not in my name?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. If they get the receipt in your name, then the matter ends right there.

Prabhupāda: That's all right.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then it's simple. It's only if they get the receipt in their own name...

Prabhupāda: No, in my name.

Room Conversation -- October 24, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This Tulasī dāsa has sent different things. Here's a news clipping from the Leader. It's a newspaper. It says, "Hare Kṛṣṇa festivity. All roads lead to the Hare Kṛṣṇa farm āśrama at Cato Ridge last Sunday where thousands of well-wishers and devotees celebrated Kṛṣṇa Janmāṣṭamī. His Holiness Śrīmān Jayatīrtha dāsa Prabhu came out especially from the United States for the occasion and to officiate at the opening of the new temple of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness." One picture shows the devotees... It says, "Members of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness and followers of A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda lead the crowd in the singing of Hare Kṛṣṇa kīrtana. In the foreground is the havana-kuṇḍa on which the sacrificial prayer was performed prior to the opening of the new temple. A view of the large gathering...," it shows thousands of people, Śrīla Prabhupāda, "...at the Hare Kṛṣṇa farm āśrama at Cato Ridge at the weekend when the new temple was officially opened. The function was held in conjunction with Lord Kṛṣṇa's birth anniversary celebrations." Here's the temple. "Head of the group, Tulasī dāsa, seen with other devotees in front of their new temple." It's a very beautiful temple with pillars and arches. I don't know how they built it so soon. (laughs) It's a big temple they built there. It says, "The International Society for Krishna Consciousness, more widely known as the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, opened its temple to coincide with the celebration of the birth of Lord Kṛṣṇa. This birthday celebration..." (break) Here's another article, pictures of devotees opening the temple. Another article. "Śrīmān Jayatīrtha dāsa Prabhu, one of the top officials..."

Prabhupāda: Still, they criticize us. Hm? Affirmations(?) good character, good health...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Another article says, "Procession draws hundreds. The hundreds lined the streets of Durban on Sunday to watch young and old Hindus taking part in the colorful procession which was held as part of Lord Kṛṣṇa's birthday celebration." It tells all about a celebration in the city of Durban organized by our society.

Prabhupāda: It will be good for propaganda.

Room Conversation -- October 25, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Any time.

Hari-śauri: Just as before.

Prabhupāda: Any time. If by parikrama, even I die, that is good luck. Do you follow?

Hari-śauri: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Instead of dying on the road, jerking of train, aeroplane, why not here?

Hari-śauri: Vṛndāvana is the best place.

Prabhupāda: So arrange like that. It doesn't matter. Which leaves his time with kīrtana, even I may die or live, it does not matter.

Hari-śauri: For us it matters, Śrīla Prabhupāda. For us it matters.

Prabhupāda: That... No... What can be done? If Kṛṣṇa desires...

Hari-śauri: At least all the devotees will be very happy to chant for you whilst you go around. (pause) One of our men just died in Bhuvaneśvara.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Hari-śauri: One man, one of our men, he died in Bhuvaneśvara.

Prabhupāda: When?

Hari-śauri: We just got a telegram today from Bhāgavata.

Prabhupāda: Who is he?

Hari-śauri: He was an elderly Australian devotee, the man who was doing the architecture. You saw him in Bombay, that older man. He was about fifty-six.

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Where is podda? (?)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Your sister. I'm just calling right now. (break) (long pause-Śrīla Prabhupāda is sleeping) ...of the different businesses of Vrindavan? Well, first of all he was getting money for traveling expenses. So I have written a letter to Mr. Bekkar, the manager of the Central Bank of India at Camac Street, informing him that henceforward the interest from the fixed deposits in the name of BBT should be stopped from giving it to Vrinda Book Company, and instead the money should be transferred by mail transfer to the Central Bank of India, Gwalior Tank Road, to BBT account. I gave all the details. That's one letter. Then furthermore, I also addressed a letter to the Punjab National Bank, Brabourn Road, informing them that the Rs. 500 should be stopped from being given to Shrimati Radharani De, because... I didn't mention this, but the reason is that she'll be getting one thousand rupees from Indian Overseas Bank. And I'm sending that letter...

Prabhupāda: Oh... Has Indian Overseas arranged?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Let me explain what I was going to say. The letter to Punjab Bank I have not sent to the bank. Rather, I have sent it to Girirāja and informed him that when the Indian Overseas Bank sends their first transfer of Rs. 1000, then he may send the letter to Punjab Bank regarding Radharani De. In other words, when we first get it confirmed...

Prabhupāda: Why not Punjab National Bank, as they are sending, let them send and ask Overseas five hundred?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, because we've already given them a scheme which accounts for everybody.

Room Conversation -- October 30, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then four hours from the Calcutta airport to Māyāpur. Total of ten hours.

Prabhupāda: Four hours?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, I'm arguing this point with Bhavānanda Mahārāja, but he insists that he knows, so I'm accepting his statement. Three to four hours.

Bhavānanda: Because the road is...

Bhakti-caru: Yes, it's not so good now.

Bhavānanda: So if you go too fast, then it's too bumpy. If you go slow, then it's reasonable.

Prabhupāda: So let us go. And keep me in the open air. (pause)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The main thing is that we must present it to the kavirāja that we are depending on his care. If you actually feel this kavirāja to be good and helpful, then we must present it in such a way that "We fully depend upon your treatment. Therefore, as you... We cannot depend on any junior man, because there may be complications at any time. Therefore, when you feel Prabhupāda is ready, you take us to Māyāpur. And if your other business in Calcutta is so pressing, then take us now." And in that way he'll be forced to feel responsible, because he'll see that we are going on his account.

Prabhupāda: Talk like that.

Prabhupada Vigil -- November 1, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (aside:) It's not as rough as traveling to Māyāpur, though, not one tenth as rough or one fiftieth. You know, all you got to do is go on a rough road. It's nothing. This palanquin is smooth compared to that, going slowly and being carried. I think the main point, Śrīla Prabhupāda, is that we have to consider going as opposed to staying here with the possibility of being at the..., under the care of this other kavirāja. That to me is the choice. This kavirāja will give medicines... First of all, we can try to convince him to stay, but failing that, he's giving a series of medicines which he expects will be proper according to the condition. But naturally the condition can change on any date. Then what will we do?

Prabhupāda: I say no medicine.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No medicine. We should reject this kavirāja.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Brahmānanda: Yadubara was asking how much time the kavirāja would stay with you in Māyāpur.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Every few days he'll be there, every two days, every three days.

Yadubara: He said like that?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, he's prepared to do that.

Bhavānanda: Śrīla Prabhupāda? Is there some... You're feeling some bad effect from these medicines that you want to reject them? (pause)

Prabhupāda: At least there is risk of life.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By traveling.

Prabhupāda: I see that.

Room Conversation -- November 2, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Read it.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Read it. From anywhere in particular? "The Killing of the Demon Pūtanā." Should I read the chapter summary? "A summary of the sixth chapter is as follows: When Nanda Mahārāja, following the instructions of Vasudeva, was returning home, he saw a great demoniac woman lying on the road, and then he heard about her death. While Nanda Mahārāja, the king of Vraja, was thinking about Vasudeva's words concerning disturbances in Gokula, he was a little afraid and sought shelter at the lotus feet of Śrī Hari. Meanwhile Kaṁsa sent to the village of Gokula a rākṣasī named Pūtanā who was wandering here and there killing small babies. Of course, wherever there is no Kṛṣṇa consciousness there is the danger of such rākṣasīs. But since the Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself was in Gokula, Pūtanā could accept nothing there but her own death." Here's some other books, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Should I show you some more? Teachings of Lord Kapila, the Son of Devahūti. (devotees exclaim)

Brahmānanda: You wanted this book. You gave the lectures in Bombay on Kapiladeva's teachings to Devahūti.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Ah, there's nothing like these books.

Upendra: Oh, it's beautiful, green cover.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is the form of this book?

Brahmānanda: They're Prabhupāda's lectures on the particular verses from that...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: One lecture after..., one verse after another.

Brahmānanda: Plus the purports.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Text 29, text 28, text 27. It's one chapter of the Bhāgavatam.

Brahmānanda: Purports and the lectures.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: There's more books.

Brahmānanda: This is beautiful, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: This is another part?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Look at this! Very high class. You want to lean back, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hand caught.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm. People go there to see.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How is it on the way? Directly on the way?

Girirāja: There's a crossroads which all the traffic passes to go to that temple, and our temple is about just a few hundred yards from that crossroads.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We could put a sign on the road. We have a whole building?

Girirāja: Yes. It's a bungalow.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Hm. In a compound?

Girirāja: Yes. In the compound they're growing flowers and vegetables.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Wow. How many acres?

Girirāja: Well, it's about half an acre, but whatever land they have, they're using.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They have a lease?

Girirāja: I don't know if they have a lease, but the owner of the house is a Vaiṣṇava, and he's very... Actually his house is next door, and his house is called Viṣṇu-nivāsa. And when he built the second house, he wanted it to be used as a temple, and he called it Bhagavān-nivāsa.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So he's very pleased with the use of the house.

Girirāja: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How many members they've made there?

Girirāja: Well, he's only made two members. I think he's going to get into it a little more. He doesn't have to be registered to make members, because the two members he made... Tax exemption has to be... Each case is considered individually. There's no system, but the lawyer and other people I spoke to felt that, since it was a Hindu state, and since they wanted to encourage such activities, that they would give us tax exemption. There's even a community of Marwari businessmen. So Prabhaviṣṇu had made one or two members by giving receipts from Calcutta, since we're not registered. So I suggested that he should concentrate on the Marwaris for the time being, and he can give receipts from Calcutta, and that would be good practice, because they are the most willing to become members. And then, by the time he got registered, he could start approaching the Nepali businessmen.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How will the Calcutta receipt help them?

Girirāja: Well, I don't think...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They care much.

Girirāja: No. Just to give them something official. He has seven boys there now, and a few of them ...

Prabhupāda: They are taking their prasādam and living there?

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They arranged that special lift to take you out of the plane also. Remember when we went in the plane on British Airways from London? That way you don't have to get carried or bounced around, because it's a machine that goes up and down.

Prabhupāda: The difficulty is on the, this road.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, it's very bad.

Prabhupāda: What is the condition?

Śatadhanya: I came by train just now.

Bhavānanda: Kavirāja said, Śrīla Prabhupāda, that under no condition should you go on that road.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It's lucky that the car didn't arrive in time, Śrīla Prabhupāda. He said under no circumstances can you be taken over that road.

Śatadhanya: It must have been Kṛṣṇa's arrangement to protect Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: What is the condition of the road?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This road is hopeless. We have to find an alternate way.

Bhakti-caru: How about going from Mathurā to Delhi by train?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Śrīla Prabhupāda, this morning you were asking for Bharadvāja? Here he is. We thought of a better way to go, Śrīla Prabhupāda, than car. We'll take the Taj Express from Mathurā to Delhi. It's quite a nice train ride. It takes only one hour and forty-five minutes, and it doesn't even stop one time.

Śatadhanya: I just took it from Delhi this morning. Very clean, very smooth.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We will have one devotee get on in Agra to reserve a compartment for us, and then we'll board it here in Mathurā, and it arrives in Delhi at about nine-thirty at night, nine forty-five. So then we'll spend the night in Delhi, resting, and then the following morning we'll take the morning flight to Calcutta and Māyāpur. This means also that you won't have to undergo any strenuous journey to Delhi and then immediately take a flight. The train journey is actually much easier than a car journey, and then we get the whole night to rest, which is also good. So basically it just means we take a plane and then the car ride to Māyāpur.

Prabhupāda: So I simply go by car from here to Mathurā.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Running down the road? (laughter) Śrīla Prabhupāda, shall I continue with this report? Another thing that's beginning to happen is that the professors, after getting your standing orders and after teaching with your books in their courses, they are starting to become very friendly to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. For example here is one example cited. He says, it says here, that "Daśaratha Prabhu went straight to the chairman of philosophy who happens to teach in that field, and that chairman also bought a copy of Monograph 2..." which is Svarūpa Dāmodara's science books; these are also becoming important, "...and promised to review it. During this time, Śeṣa was meeting with Fritz Blackwell, an Asian language specialist who has used Kṛṣṇa book in his course as a textbook and has known devotees for four years. Fritz's exchanges with Śeṣa were so intriguing that we shall simply list them one by one. The two passed in the hallway, not knowing each other, but later, when they met, Mr. Blackwell said, 'Oh, I knew you must have been with ISKCON. No one else would be so nicely dressed.' Śeṣa had corresponded with Mr. Blackwell previously and sent him copies of 'The Hare Kṛṣṇa People' and 'Spiritual Frontier' movies to review for a special national survey of audio-visual materials on new spiritual movements. Fritz related that ISKCON's response was the quickest among his many suppliers for the project, and when he told his wife the Hare Kṛṣṇas were the first to send their films, she simply replied, 'They would be.' Śeṣa acquired advance copies of Mr. Blackwell's reviews on the two films, which we'll enclose with this report if possible. Introducing Mr. Blackwell to the Readings in Vedic Literature prompted him to say, 'I will definitely use this in my course next year.' He also agreed to send a review by December. Fritz told Śeṣa, 'It's amazing that you've come today. We're just going to start our study of Kṛṣṇa tomorrow. Can you come and speak in my class?' Śeṣa immediately complied. Fritz introduced him as an authority and personal colleague, so the students listened attentively and took notes. Śeṣa used slides to supplement his academic glorification of Lord Kṛṣṇa. Interested, the students asked many questions such as 'Why is Kṛṣṇa blue? What is prasādam?' Fritz was very pleased with the whole thing and gladly helped Śeṣa make arrangements to get another Caitanya-caritāmṛta standing order in the library." They already had one order, and they got another order. "On the same campus, Śeṣa sold a preview order..." Anyway, then they sold some more books. That's just an example of the way professors are beginning to be more and more helpful, and they're actually becoming devoted to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. They've been very much impressed with the Library Party. The Library Party devotees come in suits with ties. They look very proper. They're scholarly. The books are the most prestigious, scholarly presentations of the philosophy available. And these people, they first ordered the standing order. Now they're ordering course textbooks. And now they're starting to teach your books in the courses, Śrīla Prabhupāda. They're preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness right in the classrooms. So automatically, when the see the devotees, they are very much attracted and friendly with our devotees. They want to take prasādam. So the scholars, who are the most intellectual community in America, are becoming devoted now to Your Divine Grace and this movement.

Bhakti-caru: Śrīla Prabhupāda? (Bengali) (break)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Should I read this letter? It's from Tuṣṭa Kṛṣṇa Swami.

Prabhupāda: You have read already.

Room Conversation -- November 5, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: (whispering) But he won't do that.

Prabhupāda: That is not possible. This is comfortable.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes, but this is not the road to recovery.

Prabhupāda: But what can I do?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, we have to do something. We have to...

Prabhupāda: Then that means... That means force me and give me trouble.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, that we won't do. But I'm suggesting that if we call the kavirāja in Calcutta, he can suggest some medicine which will give you strength. I mean he has not given you any medicines which he claims will give you strength yet. At least we should give him an opportunity.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think it's a good idea to call kavirāja from Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Bhavānanda: We're all in agreement that the kavirāja should be called from Calcutta.

Prabhupāda: What he'll do?

Bhavānanda: Well, that's up to him, to decide what to do.

Room Conversation -- November 7, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Tax free?

Jayapatākā: Our vehicles in Bengal, we don't pay any road tax. He's the transport commissioner, but he's no longer development commissioner. And if the government gives us some land on acquisition, we'll take. But I don't think they'll give a big amount, neither we should wait for that.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No. That's also utopian.

Jayapatākā: When they see we're doing something, automatically they want to also help.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And that bridge is a good idea. Pontoon bridge.

Jayapatākā: Because so many tourists are coming. The local M.L.A., he told me now there's thousands and thousands people coming. This last weekend there was... At any time you could see hundreds of people walking on the road to take darśana So now the local man, he wants to build some guesthouse on his own, the government, where they're going to serve meat and other things. That's why our temple, we want to... We're getting our guesthouse all straightened up. If we have a restaurant, then we'll be able to take all the tourist traffic.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So why don't you have a restaurant?

Jayapatākā: That was supposed to be done this year, but then Bombay took all the funds. Prabhupāda sanctioned it already last year. It was a good idea. But Māyāpur has become very popular. This is all due to your effort, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Simply due to your efforts Māyāpur and Navadvīpa is becoming so much more famous and popular. We want to make the Māyāpur temple so beautiful and make the city so nice that not only the Queen of England and the President of United States, but even the Russian and Chinese leaders, they'll all have to come to see this. They can't avoid. Will that please Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura? If all the leaders, all these presidents and kings would come and visit the temple at Māyāpur, that would please Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Room Conversation -- November 8, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "My dear Tamāla Kṛṣṇa Goswami and Dhṛṣṭadyumna Swami: Please accept my most humble obeisances unto your feet. All glories to our beloved spiritual master Śrīla Prabhupāda. May Lord Kṛṣṇa, if He so desires, please cure Śrīla Prabhupāda. I'm writing this letter as a brief report on the recent events as a result of my trip to Kwangchow, Canton China. I arrived on October 16th. Business—attended the Trade Fair but signed no contracts as all the prices were far too high. Research on some items may result in future business. Saṅkīrtana—our real business: I gave two Chinese Bhagavad-gītās to the Chungshan University, or Dr. Sun Yatsen University as it is called now, in Canton. They were accepted by the administration with assurance of being delivered to the appropriate departments. I inquired from the liaison office how to visit the university. They said it must be prearranged, but they did not know how. From past experience..." This boy had gone to China once before, Śrīla Prabhupāda. He's a Canadian. He says, "From past experience..." He's one of your disciples. "From past experience, because of limited time, I decided to just go, although warned not to. I walked past the guard's house at the gate of the university, hoping not to be seen. After I got forty to fifty yards, when a woman came running after me yelling in Chinese. I finally turned to her and said, 'No, it is all right,' and smiled and I kept walking on. She retreated, by Kṛṣṇa's grace, and I went on to the first building, where I saw some books through the windows. As I approached the front door, the first person I met was a middle-aged woman who spoke good English. She was a biology teacher, and we discussed the life principle as she took me to the history department and then reception. There, with two other Chinese persons, we discussed Chinese politics, and I explained the natural social body, varṇāśrama." He was discussing varṇāśrama with them. "However, as they began to understand how much sense it made, they said I had better talk to the people of the political philosophy but were unwilling to arrange it, and I was unable to also. They admitted to still having a class society in China, but the goal was to have no classes, with the means of production so arranged that everyone could have what they wanted. Such demons. They accept Marx, Lenin and Mao as absolute authority and plan to spread this perfect social system, as they call it, all over the world. I gave one Gītā to the main public library. They accepted when they found out that I was a Canadian and thanked me very much. Then, on October 25th, with saffron dhotī and Chinese cymbals, I went out on the main street in Kwangchow in the evening, chanting the holy name." This is in China, Śrīla Prabhupāda. "At first there were many suspicious looks, but in a few minutes I had a large crowd following me. Soon the children were running in front, with some of them dancing. I also began to dance, and a loud uproar ensued from the audience. The crowd grew larger and extended out into the road, where the buses began to honk their horns. Just then a cymbal fell from the string to the ground. As I picked it up and repaired it, the crowd came very close all around and tightly crowded. I chanted loudly, 'Hare Kṛṣṇa,' and heard one 'Kṛṣṇa,' in return. I responded with 'Kṛṣ-ṇa' loudly, and three or four answered. Soon I had about twenty responding to the chant, but decided to go on, as the crowd was getting too big. A few minutes later a man broke through the crowd and grabbed my arm and motioned me to stop. I continued, and soon another grabbed the other arm and pulled me into a shop, closed the doors and offered me a seat. The crowd responded with an uproar and banged on the doors for a little while. I had to wait about fifteen minutes until a person came who spoke English. He told me I was causing interference with traffic, and soon after they let me go. I did not go out again as I did not want to agitate them too far. I had previously chanted in a bus and showed the people pictures of Kṛṣṇa. It was very ecstatic. I have been told since then that the incidents would be heard of by nearly everyone in Kwangchow as a conversation topic. Perhaps the name of Kṛṣṇa will also be repeated many times by many people..." (break) Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: So China has sacrificed everything. What is their aim?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In China? Their aim... They say that their aim is to establish a classless society where everyone gets everything that they require. Economic aim.

Prabhupāda: What aim? Low-class men.

Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Bhavānanda: We should begin the parikrama in Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhavānanda: Because quite honestly, Śrīla Prabhupāda, I think most of us are very worried. If you go off down the road and send us all back to our different assignments, we would not be able to serve with our full attention, knowing that our beloved father and spiritual guide was in such weak condition. So if we begin in Vṛndāvana, we're all here now, we can see so that we know what arrangements to make for the future when you want to leave.

Prabhupāda: Hm. You make me flat. (break)

Jayapatākā: We heard that Your Divine Grace had a dream that a kavirāja of the Rāmānuja-sampradāya would treat you and bring you back to strength, and this kavirāja says that in a very short time, following the treatment, you would regain your strength. Although he hasn't got all of the medicines yet, but within a day or two they'll all be prepared, and he says within fifteen days you should be quite improved in strength. So far, he seems to have been quite sincere.

Prabhupāda: No, no, he's sincere. I'll drink milk. Whatever strength is obtainable, there will be.

Jayapatākā: Like to follow the same treatment, only while traveling.

Haṁsadūta: So we should meet and make a program for going around Vṛndāvana.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hired or purchased?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, for now just hired, not purchased. Later on we can make a more permanent arrangement, and it can be fixed up as nicely as possible. At the same time while we were meeting, the kavirāja, he also was present. So we inquired from him what he thought about this program, from a medical point of view of course. Spiritually he is in complete agreement. So from a medical point of view, he said that you would not at all be able to withstand this kind of a trip. He said that in a bullock cart, moving around, bumping on the road, you might not be able to live more than a couple of hours. He's here now. He wanted to speak to you.

Kavirāja: (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Lokanātha?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Lokanātha has already gone, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Haṁsadūta: He has gone to Mathurā for renting.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He has gone out for renting the bullock cart.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (Hindi)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Lokanātha says that the bullock cart could probably go around Vṛndāvana in about five to six hours, parikramming Vṛndāvana town.

Prabhupāda: Make an experiment. Then we shall decide.

Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Haṁsadūta: Does it mean that Your Divine Grace will come on the experiment, or we should go without Your Divine Grace and experiment?

Prabhupāda: Why?

Jayapatākā: See if the road is very rough, if the road is passable by bullock cart the whole way.

Prabhupāda: Bullock cart is not smooth.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bullock cart is not smooth. How would you propose that we go, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Come, let us take the risk.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Go anyway. Let us take the risk.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: As your disciples, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we're all neophytes. We don't know what is right and what is wrong. But at the same time we feel that we're very hopeful that you'll get strength slowly and slowly. And this morning you were telling us that you get a little strength, so we are hoping every day that "Prabhupāda will gain even stronger and be with us for many more years." So we are taking advice from kavirāja that you take milk more and more, day by day, so that Prabhupāda will get stronger. Like kavirāja is suggesting that when Your Divine Grace gets stronger, he'll go with you in the parikrama, he will accompany you.

Prabhupāda: So let us make experiment in Vṛndāvana.

Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Others will come also.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah, well, if we go through Vṛndāvana, probably many people will come.

Haṁsadūta: Then we could also get some experience, because if we were, for example, to go to Govardhana, we would have to pass over similar roads.

Lokanātha: This cart does not have cover, Śrīla Prabhupāda. This bullock cart which I hired has no cover on the top.

Haṁsadūta: So we have to cover it.

Bhakti-caru: Lokanātha Swami, you apparently didn't get one question of Prabhupāda. He asked what do you think about this trip. You didn't answer that. You have some experience with bullock carts. What do you think? In this condition Śrīla Prabhupāda will withstand the trip? You know in what condition Prabhupāda is in now.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Bullock cart are usually very bumpy.

Devotee: This has rubber tires.

Lokanātha: If these roads are not bad, and the cart has tire wheels...

Prabhupāda: Yes?

Lokanātha: So we're discussing bumping, so won't be much bumping on the cart. Also, we always could go slow. If Prabhupāda wants to make an experiment, we could make one day...

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: A few hours.

Prabhupāda: I am thinking I am lying here... (break)

Lokanātha: ...should ride in very nice carts, a chariot.

Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That will be very nice.

Guṇārṇava: There are already many thousands and thousands of people there, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Perhaps it will take a long time to get there because of traffic. I was in Mathurā today. Every ten minutes buses and ṭāṅgās and so many kinds of vehicles were going to Govardhana. There are many, many thousands of people there today.

Pañca-draviḍa: Besides that, the devotees would have to walk nine hours in the sun.

Guṇārṇava: Perhaps the road will be very busy tomorrow, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Whew!

Haṁsadūta: Can't walk?

Prabhupāda: No, let them take their time. They do that. It is very nice picnic.

Lokanātha: From my village there is this pilgrimage called Pandarpur. This is sixty miles. And still, old men, they just travel, walk. Every ekādaśī they go.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Room Conversation -- November 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: To request not to go?

Kṛṣṇa dāsa Bābājī: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, Śrīla Prabhupāda, I'll tell you, I'm getting so upset sitting in the room upstairs. I mean I just... I was walking around... Two of the devotees told me this road is so bad that if you go on this road, you're going to be jolted back and forth. The road is terrible. I just can't understand, Śrīla Prabhupāda, why it has to be tomorrow that we have to go. If anybody wants you to travel, I do. My whole desire is to take you all over the world. I want to take you on parikrama, but why do we have to go when you're in this condition? I can't understand it. It just... I was standing outside. This kavirāja, he has worked so hard. He's so much disappointed. He can't understand why he... He says that now, today, you've taken half a kilo of milk. No mucus has is being produced. No stool is being passed. He says tomorrow he wants to give you a medicine that will begin to build the milk into muscles. He's going to get you to a point where you can take two kilos of milk a day. And he says very soon you'll be able to have the strength to actually do parikrama. So why are we throwing everything out the window, that we must go tomorrow? I cannot understand.

Prabhupāda: All right.

Bhakti-caru: Jaya Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Room Conversation -- November 13, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Lokanātha: And most of the holy places are connected with good roads. During our preaching we also visit holy places. When they're on the way, we pass through them. And if we travel not very fast, with good drivers, it won't be much...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Bhakti-caitanya Swami is the fit driver for your vehicles, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Is that all right? I know he would want to come. Is that all right, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's expert, Bhakti-caitanya Swami. He knows how to arrange everything also.

Jayādvaita: These vehicles can supply electricity so that when you stop...

Prabhupāda: Purchase at least four vehicles.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Four what, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: At least four vehicles.