Religious (Conversations 1973 - 1974)

Expressions researched:
"religious" |"religiously" |"religiousness"

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query: religious* not "religious system*" not "religious principle*" not "religious life"

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Devotee: He would like to have him translate English to Indonesian.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (2): He is the director of the (indistinct) of Hindu and Buddhist religion, from Department of Religious Affairs. His duty is to maintain and look after the development of (indistinct) expecting that all people of Indonesia that has to follow any kind of religions (indistinct) Christians, because we have also in charge for the Christianity, we have also in charge for the Muslim, or Islam, and we have also in charge for the Catholic and we have also in charge for other...

Prabhupāda: Very good idea. This is very nice.

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Guest (2): Which we are expecting that this Bhagavad-gītā should be read by English (indistinct) and also, matter of fact, most of English readers can understand and they have the ideas of the Mahābhārata, and Rāmāyaṇa, and the essence of the Bhagavad-gītā. Now the problems, at least the department has (indistinct) facing difficulties to supply materials that are actually needed by the people, is we are lacking of materials. So how, actually we have to solve this problem actually. We are actually, from the government point of view always looking and how we can try to get international relationships between various countries to solve the problems. As the same case also how to educate Indonesian peoples to study more about the Hinduism in order they can teach the Hinduism because in our country religious instruction is compulsory in our, any institution. So we felt, actually in our lack of material as well as lack of institution to develop this Hindu religions. And I, from our government actually, we are expected your visit here that it will be beneficial, both for our side, from the government point of view, and as well as for here and as well in your country.

Prabhupāda: So I think your problems can be solved if you kindly cooperate with us.

Guest (2): Yes. That's why we are looking for... because...

Prabhupāda: We can give you correct idea of religious principles as well as our philosophy.

Guest (2): Yes.

Prabhupāda: Religious idea without philosophy is sentiment, and philosophy without religion is mental speculation. They should be combined. Religious idea supported by philosophy. Then it is correct. And philosophy without religious idea is simply mental speculation. They should be combined. That combination of religious idea and philosophy, you'll find in the Bhagavad-gītā, provided you accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is. If you interpret Bhagavad-gītā in your own way, then you'll miss the point. Just like in our country, in India, Bhagavad-gītā has been interpreted in so different ways that people are now bewildered. They do not know what is actually Bhagavad-gītā. Take, for example... Just like in the beginning of the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, dharmakṣetre kurukṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). I think you know Sanskrit. Samavetā yuyutsavaḥ māmakāḥ pāṇḍavāś caiva kim akurvata sañjaya (BG 1.1).

Room Conversation -- February 26, 1973, Jakarta:

Prabhupāda: Dharmaṁ tu sākṣad bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). Religion means the course, or the laws given by God. Just like law means the law given by the state. I cannot manufacture law. The citizen cannot manufacture law. The law is manufactured by the legislative assembly of the government. Similarly, religion means the order given by God. Now we have to understand who is God, and what is His order, and how it is applicable to everyone. That is the system of religion. We cannot whimsically give some rituals as religion. The principle of religion is to obey the orders of God. Therefore the first principle is to know who is God. Unless I know what is God, then how I can know what is His order? So in the Bhagavad-gītā, the religion is given that—(Aside:) you are feeling sleepy, you can go—the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). That is religion. We have manufactured so many types of religion, and here God says that "You give up your manufactured religion. You just surrender unto Me." This is religion. Religion means to surrender. A good citizen means to surrender to the government law. Similarly, a religious person means who has surrendered to God. Nowadays it has become a regrettable fashion that everyone is God, when we surrender to one. And this false prestige that "I am God. I haven't got to surrender to anyone. I am God. What surrender?" This atheism is going on and spoiling the whole human society. God has become so cheap. Any nonsense can claim, "I am God." That is the defect of the modern society. There is a great necessity to understand God. If everyone is God then where is the necessity of religion? If everyone is president then where is the necessity of lawmaking? So this is going on. This is very unfortunate situation.

Morning Walk -- April 29, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa-upadeśa. This is Caitanya's cult. Whomever you meet, you talk of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That's, that is the cult of Caitanya Mahāprabhu. This is genuine spiritual movement. Or the human society's movement. Spiritual, cultural, religious philosophical, scientific, everything, complete. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa (pause) So you admit these facts? From any angle of vision, if one does not accept this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, he is aimless, bogus. Unless you are convinced, how you can preach? But this is the fact. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa... (pause) While preaching, you must have your locus standi, what is your position. And you must be able to defend your position.

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 13, 1973, Los Angeles:

Paramahaṁsa: At least, the animals live by certain codes. They do not kill unless necessary. They only eat when necessary, whereas man, he kills unnecessarily, eats unnecessarily. So forgetting God, we are even lower than animals.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Therefore we suffer also, more than the animals. (pause) So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not a bogus religious sentimental movement. It is a scientific movement. So now it is up to you to prove this. Then you will be actually Kṛṣṇa conscious. (pause) (break)

Morning Walk At Cheviot Hills Golf Course -- May 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, they are pious, pious trees. Otherwise why I am taking care of this leaf? Because the flower is there. And who cares for this leaf? Trampling down. As in the human society, there is first-class man, second-class man, third-class man, similarly in every field, first-class, animal also.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Cows.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Useful, giving milk. Most humble, useful. Even after death it is useful. And they are so rascal, they are taking care of the dog, not of the cow. Just see how they are rascals. And they are advanced, civilized. They do not know what is meant by civilization. Now, according to Vedic scripture, cow killing is sinful. It is never written, dog killing is sinful. Generally, any animal you kill, that is sinful. But especially cow killing is sinful. Go-hatya. Go-hatya. And that cow killing is going on by the Christian world, and still, they are religious. What kind of religion? Christian religion says generally, "Thou shalt not kill." All... And especially they are killing cows. Generally killing and especially killing. First thing is why they shall kill at all? In America, oh, they have got sufficient food. So much rice, so much wheat, so much oats, fruits, grains and butter and ghee. So why they shall kill? What is the reason?

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Krishna Tiwari: But the question is, on the left hand... Of course, in my opinion, and I think in the opinion of many scientists, there is no difference between a scientist or a common man or a religious man. Both..., all these people are trying to find out about their environment. So are the religious men. They want to find out more about themselves, about the nature they live in. They want to know more about it. They want to find out why they're here, how are they to live in this world, and so I do not think there is any difference between the two.

Prabhupāda: No, there cannot be difference.

Krishna Tiwari: Yes. And the only difference is that where the scientist deals with the phenomena of nature and wants to show it to others. In a strict sense he can tell how he (indistinct) better; others can go and say it. Sometimes it is very hard, I think, for all these reasons, for the religious leaders to do that.

Prabhupāda: So as so far the differences, there is no difference, because just like this body: the body has got different parts—the fingers, the hands, the eyes, the legs, so many different—but the whole purpose is to serve the body. Either with the finger or eyes or hands or legs, the whole purpose is centered on the soul of the complete whole body. Similarly, Bhāgavata says that whatever you may—you may be scientist, you may be philosopher, you may be an engineer, you may be a poet, you may be sociologist, politician, whatever you may be-their purpose should be avicyutaḥ arthaḥ. Avicyutaḥ means infallible purpose. Avicyutaḥ arthaḥ kavibhih nirūpitaḥ. "It has been decided by great learned scholar," says "all of them should be engaged in glorifying the Supreme."

Room Conversation with Krishna Tiwari -- May 22, 1973, New York:

Krishna Tiwari: No, I agree with you completely, but my point of this is that this is the difference between religious and scientific approach of finding the superpower. When science finds...

Prabhupāda: This is not religious!

Krishna Tiwari: Whatever it is.

Prabhupāda: It is not faith.

Krishna Tiwari: Whatever.

Prabhupāda: It is fact. It is science.

Krishna Tiwari: Science. It is this kind of science then, because there is no way to prove it. When a person finds...

Prabhupāda: There is proof. There is proof.

Krishna Tiwari: ...anywhere in the world...

Prabhupāda: You don't say there is no proof.

Krishna Tiwari: ...in science, you can do the same thing in your place.

Prabhupāda: No, no. There is proof. There is proof. Because, because the laws of nature is being controlled, that is the proof there is somebody controlling. That is the proof.

Conversation with Sridhara Maharaja -- June 27, 1973, Navadvipa:

Prabhupāda: Russiate, there is big loka. I have got a student there. They are very much strict about religious things. When I went to Moscow...

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Well, reaction will come.

Prabhupāda: Reaction already come. They do not...

Śrīdhara Mahārāja: Sure to come... Reaction, reaction.

Prabhupāda: So they found one of my Bhagavad-gītā in the immigration. So immediately he called police. (laughs) Then he, he examined. He allowed, "All right, it is all right. It is such a rubbish." But they are not very happy country, as they advertise.

Room Conversation With David Wynne -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: We must be prepared for the future, his next life. Yes, where is that civilization? Where is that education, that people are thinking for future life? Is there any educational system at the present moment? So everything is being defeated. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. Abodha-jāta, these rascal fools, born foolish. He does not inquire about the self-realization, so whatever he is doing, it is all defeat, he is spoiling his time, because he does not know. Ātma-tattvam, the science of self-realization. So in ignorance, whatever you do there is defeat. And they're being defeated and they're thinking "I'm victorious." This is called māyā. This is called māyā. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very scientific. We are trying to save the living entity from disastrous condition. This is the aim and mission of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not a religious sentiment, no. It is a very scientific. And we have got so many books already printed, and many books coming. Each and every one. You have seen our books?

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

David Wynne: There's no great art that isn't religious in the world, that isn't to do about God. Because art about man is already debased, isn't it. Yes, must be. But I feel that if one even me, even people like me, the ordinary people making ordinary things, if they're, if it is praising nature... Because nature's an aspect of God, isn't it.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

David Wynne: And a pure one. Not, not spoiled. Anyway, that's what I tell myself. (laughs) What I mean is, if one makes a bird, if it has the feeling that because Kṛṣṇa breathed life into it and made it, and if one can reproduce this and get the spirit of it, that's praising...

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also indirect praising. But you can praise Him directly.

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Guest (2): Religious people are recognizing that this is very important. They say "the world religion," and this is the tool. They say, well, the tool. "Here is the new tool for religion education in the secondary schools." So they are recognizing this fact.

Prabhupāda: Without canvassing, people join.

Guest (2): This is the fact here, see.

Prabhupāda: And the world religion... The Ratha-yātrā, we did not ask any particular man. Everyone came and joined. You were there?

Room Conversation with Educationists -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: We are giving the right information, how human being can be really happy. This is end. It is not a religious sentiment. Religion means kind of faith. Today I am Hindu; tomorrow I am Christian; next day I am Mohammedan. What benefit I may get by changing so-called faith? Unless I understand what is my constitutional position, why I am suffering, how to get out of it? That is real life. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that. It is not a sentimental religious faith. It is not like that. It is absolutely necessary for the human being. We are talking of human being because without being a human being, nobody will be able... The cats and dogs, they will not be able to understand the problem. In the human form of life, you can make solution of all the problems of life. It is a science, how to make that solution. That we are teaching. We are not talking of religion. Religion... Somebody will say, "I believe," "We believe..." Another will, "We believe..." You believe, if it is not a fact, what is the use of such believing? We are dealing with facts, not the question of believing and not believing. Facts are facts. If you don't take facts, then you are missing the opportunity.

Room Conversation with Father Tanner and other guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Father Tanner: But do you specifically have a precept against telling a lie, or against hypocrisy?

Prabhupāda: Well, hypocrisy and other things, they are subsidiary. If one is pure from the very beginning, then there is no chance of becoming hypocrite. Why he should be hypocrite? If he is open, clear, why one should become hypocrite? Hypocrisy, when there is sinful activity, then hypocrisy. If there is no sin, where is the possibility of hypocrisy? A sinful man may pose himself a religious man. That is hypocrisy. But if there is no sin, then where is hypocrisy?

Room Conversation with Father Tanner and other guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Weakness is hypocrisy. If you are weak, you cannot become priest. Because you are teacher, religious teacher. You should not take that post. That is hypocrisy.

Room Conversation with Father Tanner and other guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Spiritually, when you get your spiritual body, there is no such material inconveniences. The material inconveniences means so long you have got this material body, you are subjected to birth, death, old age and disease. When you revive your spiritual body, these four things are not with you. No more birth, no more death, no more disease, no more old age. This is the difference between spiritual life and material life.

Father Tanner: Yes, I mean, this, I think, anyone who's in any sense spiritual or religious or ethical would admit because the spiritual body has no parts. So it cannot start to be or cease to be and cannot change within his own entity.

Prabhupāda: No, the spiritual body is there already. Just like you have got your body. The coat is made according to your body. You existed first. Your coat was made later on. Similarly, spiritually, we exist eternally. Now, according to our different types of activities, we get a body, material body. There are eight million, four hundred thousand different forms of bodies. So the spirit soul is transmigrating according to his desire and work to different types of body. This is called transmigration of the soul. ...

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Buddhist Monk (1): Moscow? They're friendly people. I will go back again.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I know.

Buddhist Monk (1): Yes. So it is a world which is shrinking...

Prabhupāda: The government is against any religious...

Buddhist Monk (1): Well, not so strict now as in past because the word "religion" has been used as a narcotic by people. The religious institution was kissing the state, and the state was kissing religion.

Prabhupāda: When I was in airport, the customs clearance, as soon as they saw my book, Bhagavad-gītā, they called police. (laughter)

Room Conversation with Two Buddhist Monks -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So if we accept God, or Kṛṣṇa, as the supreme friend, then whatever advice He'll give me, if we follow, then I am happy. There is no difficulty. He says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). If we do that, we become happy. Where is the difficulty? From historical point of view... Of course, no, I mean to say, religious literature is older than Bhagavad-gītā. It was spoken by the Supreme Lord personally five thousand years ago. And that old thing we are presenting as it is. Our Bhagavad-gītā is therefore named Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Without any interpretation. Without any addition, alteration. No, we don't make that. If we make addition, alteration, then where is the authority of Bhagavad-gītā? We don't do that. And that is proving effective.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: And it is the duty of the guardians to see that the children are actually spiritually benefited. There is a verse... Pitā na sa syāt gurur na sa syāt. You have got Bhāgavata?

Pradyumna: It's upstairs.

Prabhupāda: Bhāgavata? Find out that. Fifth Canto, Fifth Chapter. How it is instructed. If you introduce these literatures in the schools for study—because you are religious teacher-oḥ, it will play...

David Lawrence: I think so. And, you know, we hope to...

Prabhupāda: ...revolution in the spiritual ideas.

Room Conversation with Dr. Arnold Toynbee, Famous Historian, at his home or office -- July 22, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No. The inquiry was that "If we again give votes to the Englishmen, will they come and do." (laughs)

Dr. Arnold Toynbee: Yes, yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So they were feeling the... Actually, in India... In our childhood, we know. Every Indian felt very secure. They never expected that Britishers will go. They were so sympathetic. And now they... This is the pulse felt by that statistics officer. They are not very much satisfied with the present system of government. British administration was very much appreciated by the Indians. Even Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura appreciated. Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura, he has written in something, somewhere, that "The Britishers also very nice because they don't interfere with the religious affairs." So as soon as they changed their views and tried to divide the Hindus and Muslims, the British Empire lost. According to Queen's declaration, the Britishers pledged that "They will not interfere with your religious affairs." Later on, for political purposes, when they interfered with this Hindu-Muslim question, then the British Empire lost.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Lord Brockway: And I know little about your religion and your philosophy. I do not belong to any religious denomination, though I believe in the spiritual basis of the universe.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Lord Brockway: And the great moments of inspiration are those rare moments when you feel you belong to all of life, from the beginning of time, now, everywhere.

Prabhupāda: No, our preaching is also on that point, that God is one, and we are all sons of God. Call our paṇḍita. In the... I think you have read Bhagavad-gītā.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: He's thoroughly understanding-before killing. Not that "We have (indistinct) reason to kill." No. So we are rather unhappy that in London I've seen thousands of churches practically closed. Nobody is going there. We are not happy to see. This is happening. But why people are abstaining from going to the church? Although there is Pope, and so many priests and other things. Why?

Reporter: It has become an institution, and there is no more religious...

Prabhupāda: Life.

Reporter: ...experience in life.

Prabhupāda: There is no life. A simple thing, that if you disobey the orders of Lord Christ, how will you become a Christian, first of all? Where is your Christianity? Simply rubber-stamping "I'm Christian" you become a Christian, without following the tenets?

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Reporter: His philosophy is... He is a bhak..., a devotee, I think. He is very much a devotee. But he is also preaching what Gandhi was preaching, for village organization and simple living and producing food and clothes, in the village, and not going to the city. This is his principle, on the economy scale. And on the spiritual end, religious, he's a brahma-vidyā. He's seeking brahma-vidyā. And he has in Padnab(?) Brahma-vidya Mandir.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Reporter: So he is... He is a follower of Śaṅkarācārya.

Prabhupāda: Mukti, bhukti.

Reporter: Ah?

Prabhupāda: Mukti.

Reporter: Mukti, yes.

Prabhupāda: Piśācī.

Reporter: Hm? (everyone laughs)

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Bhukti-mukti-piśācī.

Reporter: Yes.

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) Bhukti and mukti. So they have manufactured so many "isms." Bhukti-ism and mukti-ism. Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, "Give up all these isms. Simply take surrender unto Me, that's all." This is real love.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Mother: Well, a lot of people now are going over to health foods.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Mother: This is thought of by a lot of people.

Prabhupāda: Well, lot of people may do anything.

Mother: I agree with you. Yes...

Prabhupāda: But a reasonable man, a religious man, he should have discrimination, that "If I get my foodstuff from here, why shall I kill a big animal?"

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: So there must be division for upkeep of the soc... That is missing. At the present moment, there is no division.

Mother: But he had a false religious experience, due to the LSD.

Prabhupāda: No, I am talking generally, not of him, that everything must be, there must be division. Just like naturally we have got division. The whole object is to keep the body fit, but there is division: the head division, the arm division, the stomach division, and the leg division. So similarly, there must be four classes of men in the society: the intelligent class of men, the administrator class of men, the productive class of men, and the laborer class of men. Everything is required. But not that the intelligent class of man has to learn the business of the laborer class of men. That is not required. Just try to understand. The laborer class of men, they are required. But one who is intelligent class, he, he cannot be trained up as laborer, ordinary laborer in the factory. That is mistake. He must work according to his capacity. If he's intelligent, he must be preacher, he must be God conscious. He would educate people that "This eating, sleeping is not all. There is God. You should understand. You have got a relationship with Him. If you want to have better life next, then you must become God conscious, you must be sinless." These things are required in the society. (loud noise of jet going over). What is the use of talking?

Room Conversation with Mister Popworth and E. F. Schumacher -- July 26, 1973, London:

Revatīnandana: And just like yesterday, Mahādeva's parents came here, his mother came here along with a Jesuit family priest, about sixty years old. And she accused us that we had come and kidnapped him out of the university. And we said, "Actually, we didn't kidnap him. He came to our temple and didn't want to go away," which is what happened. She said, "Well, that's because he took some LSD and he had a false religious experience." So then I asked the Jesuit priest, "If your religious experience is as pure as he had just been saying, then why was this boy, trained up in a Jesuit school, seeking after spiritual life from a false religious process? Why was he taking LSD in the first place if his religion was satisfactory?" And he couldn't answer it. He said, "Well, there seems to be some kind of a spiritual," what did he say, "a spiritual lack or a spiritual something at this time for some reason." But he would not define it that he was unable to fill that spiritual lack by his process. And yet, we have filled that lack, or our spiritual master has filled that lack for thousands of young people now, who are not only God conscious, but they're practicing it every minute of every day. And they're practicing it practically, in the city or in the community or in the farm or wherever they are. So it's not that we're contesting the origins. The origin from Christ may have been very pure, but its present manifestation appears to be lacking something. And the young people are seeing that.

Prabhupāda: Just for example, that in the Ten Commandments, the first Commandment is "Thou shall not kill." So when I ask any Christian gentleman, "Then why you are killing?" they cannot give me any satisfactory answer. (pause)

Room Conversation -- London, August 24, 1973 :

Prabhupāda: ...there are so many paths, that Kṛṣṇa says that "Real religion is to surrender unto Me. Therefore you give up all this pseudo-religion," sarva dharman parityajya, give it up, mam ekam saranam, "just surrender unto Me, I shall give you protection from all sinful reaction." So here is God, and He is accepted by great ācāryas. In India there were great ācāryas, religious leaders. Just like Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Nimbarka, later Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and many others. They accept Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So there is God, His name, His address, His activities, everything is there. If you accept, then you will benefit.

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Cardinal Danielou: But there is no, no atheism, literate, some atheism, atheism, atheism, religious indifference, materialists exist in the towns, in the towns...?

Prabhupāda: Now there are many atheists.

Cardinal Danielou: Many atheists, yes. In France, we have this problem. In France, the greatest parts of the, of, of children are baptized and trained...

Prabhupāda: Give me little more.

Cardinal Danielou: In France, the greatest part of children are baptized and receive a religious education, the religious training, the great part. The atheism is chiefly, amongst intellectuals. Not...

Prabhupāda: Ah! Not in the mass.

Cardinal Danielou: Not in the... No, not in the mass.

Prabhupāda: The same thing....

Cardinal Danielou: The intellectuals are always a little extravagant. And the mass, the mass, remain religious. Yes, yes. Very religious, very religious.

Yogeśvara: But still we find that the French young people today are at the head of all the revolutionary philosophies and movements.

Cardinal Danielou: Yes. Yes. But it is not the majority of the young men and this revolutionary spirit is amongst many youths, some research, research of the Absolute. Some young men are communist and Marxist, surely. But many youths, today have a spirit of research factually. In, insatisfied with actual religious forms, but receives any religious experience, a spiritual experience...

Prabhupāda: That is the latest thing. They are now disgusted with these religious rituals without philosophy.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1973, Paris:

Haṁsadūta: Purport: "This is the duty of everyone to mold his life in such a way that he will not forget Kṛṣṇa in any circumstance. Everyone has to work for maintenance of his body and soul together, and Kṛṣṇa recommends herein that one should work for Him. Everyone has to eat something to live. Therefore he should accept the remnants of foodstuffs offered to Kṛṣṇa. Any civilized man has to perform some religious..."

Prabhupāda: "You give Me." "Whatever you eat, you give Me," Kṛṣṇa says.

Haṁsadūta: "Any civilized man has to perform some religious ritualistic ceremonies. Therefore Kṛṣṇa recommends..."

Haṁsadūta: This is vaidikī.

Haṁsadūta: "...Do it for Me."

Yogeśvara: Vaidikī.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Rosicrucians -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Yogeśvara: It is a very big religious movement all around the world. (Yogeśvara speaks in French with Mr. Belfiore and then translates for Śrīla Prabhupāda throughout) He says our movement is very well known in the United States. Have you never come across our society?

Prabhupāda: What is the aim of this movement?

Yogeśvara: The evolution of man.

Prabhupāda: Evolution of man. So man is going to evolve more? What is that ultimate evolution?

Yogeśvara: To a reintegration of man with the cosmos or cosmic consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Cosmic consciousness. We also believe individual consciousness and cosmic consciousness. We are now studying this subject matter in our class. Kṣetra-kṣetra-jña. So kṣetra-jña, the knower... The individual soul is also knower, conscious, and the Supersoul, God, is also conscious. So we also admit, universal consciousness, that is God's consciousness. (break)... consciousness is limited.

Morning Walk -- August 30, 1973, London:

David Lawrence: Let me think of one, yes, one that I asked which I know Mukunda has already answered for me, but we need it in the teachers' pack, of course, is the fact of the dating of the Vedas. You know, people like some of the archaeologists such as A.L. Basham and Mortimer Wheeler maintain that the Harrapa dig, so to speak, in the Indus Valley and Mahenjo-Daro and all those towns, show the dating of the Vedas in fact to be a great deal later, you know, and therefore to take away, some people would say this, to deprive the Vedas of a certain amount of authority because they no longer, according to these men, would appear to be the most ancient religious scriptures in the world. And that, that sort of question, which...

Prabhupāda: Veda means not religion, Veda means knowledge. So if you can trace out the history of knowledge, then you can trace out what is the date of Veda. Can you trace out? When...? Which is the date when knowledge began. Can you trace out?

Room Conversation with Officer Harry Edwards, the Village Policeman -- August 30, 1973, Bhaktivedanta Manor, London:

Prabhupāda: In India, also, there is that Bengali gentleman, he was offering two lands, one Agartala, and Agra. The people are still willing to cooperate with religious movement.

Revatīnandana: Yeah, this place is also donated.

Room Conversation -- September 2, 1973, London:

Guest (1): People say about Uraya Karan Singh...

Prabhupāda: Karan Singh?

Guest (1): ...of Kashmir, he's a very pious man, and because rich birth and he is a pious as well, is it?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): Very religious and...

Prabhupāda: No, I have seen him. He's religious temperament. Not very. He loves Kṛṣṇa. No, he's a good man.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Ambassador: No, we have a difficulty, Your Eminence. We have got a problem in India because we have got this multi-religious society. So we have to be careful. But individuals can...

Prabhupāda: No...

Ambassador: Because we have got to be... We should not be misunderstood. As a government, we should not take too strong a policy about any particular religion, even though it is the religion of the majority of the people.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. It is the duty of the government... Secular state means neutral to any kind of religion. But it is the duty of government to see that people are religious. Not that "Because government is secular, let the people go to hell."

Ambassador: No, that's true.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If you are Muslim, and, it is my duty as government to see that you are actually acting as a Muslim. If you are a Hindu, it is the government's duty to see that you are acting as a Hindu. If you are a Christian, it is the government's duty. You cannot give up religion. Dharmena hīnāḥ paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. If people become irreligious in the name of secularism, then they are simply animals. So it is the government's duty to see that the citizens are not becoming animals. He may profess a type of religion. That doesn't matter. But he must be religious. That is secular state. Not that secular state means government is callous, "Let the people become cats and dogs, without religion. Government doesn't care." That is not good government. What do you think?

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Ambassador: Your Eminence, I agree, but I think the duty of the government primarily is to provide conditions in which gifted people, spiritual people like you, leaders like you, can function. More than that, if the government does, it might probably even corrupt the religious... I don't know. Like an umpire in a game, you know, or something... Provide the conditions, provide the conditions for free speech. Not like Moscow, you know, where it is...

Prabhupāda: No. That is... Just like you have got the Commerce Department. Government has got. What is the duty of the Commerce Department? The government must see that the trade enterprise, common share, or industrial enterprise, they are doing nicely, properly. The government issuing license. They have got supervision. They send sometimes, what is called, inspectors? Education. Say, for education. There is educational inspector, school inspector. They go see that the students are properly being educated in that school. Similarly, government should have expert men in the government to see that the Hindus are acting like Hindu, Muslims are acting like Muslim, and Christians are acting like Christian. The government should not be callous about religion. They may be neutral that whatever religion you profess, government has nothing to do. You do nicely. But it is the government's duty to see that you are doing nicely, you are not bluffing. That is government's duty.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ (SB 5.18.12). If one has got faith and devotion to God, God is one... God is neither Christian nor Hindu nor Muslim. God is one. So religion means according to... Not according to... This is the Vedic conclusion.

sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo

yato bhaktir adhokṣaje

ahaituky apratihatā

yayātmā suprasīdati

(SB 1.2.6)

One must be religious. Without being religious, he cannot be satisfied. Therefore there is confusion, dissatisfaction all over the world because, because people have become irreligious. If you want to keep... In Calcutta, there was, in the American Consulate Office, I was invited. There, they have got a department: "Indo-American Cultural Society." Perhaps you know.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Prabhupāda: But others, they say that "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am Christian," "I believe in God," but he does not know anything.

Ambassador: I'm afraid most of us are like that, to be honest. That's true.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) I should say that Moscow are gentlemen. Because they cannot understand, they say, "Don't believe."

Ambassador: It's mūḍha-dhī.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But these rascals, they say, "Yes, I'm religious," but he's doing most irreligious activities. You see? I asked the Christian so many times that "Your Bible says, 'Thou shalt not kill.' Why you are killing?" They cannot give any satisfactory answer. This is my experience. It is clearly said, "Thou shalt not kill." And they are maintaining slaughterhouses. What is this? The other day in London, one lady, she was showing me... She... You were present? Broke some grass blade?

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Ambassador: That's what I was telling. He's a very good man. His wife is also coming from a very religious family, like what your grace said, you know. His wife's grandfather was one of the real sādhus, you see. He lived in a... He was a Jat, but he was also a yogi.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Ambassador: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Our history, we find so many gṛhasthas, householder, kings, rājarṣi. In the Bhagavad-gītā, it is said, evaṁ paramparā-prāptam imaṁ rājarṣayo viduḥ (BG 4.2). Rājā, king, at the same time, ṛṣi. This was the king. Just like Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira. Rājarṣi. He's a king, but ṛṣi. You read that portion. Yes. The government of Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira, how they were happy, just see. Kāmam, kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). Parjanya. Parjanya means cloud, yes. Kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). The, all our necessities come from the rain. Now there is scarcity of rain. What the government can do or the scientists can do? And if there is no rain, then all your plan is finished.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Ambassador: Yes, I am aware of the government problem.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Because they think, "Oh, it is religious." Not only they are... In America there are big, big foundation. As soon as we submit some petition, "Help us," "No, no, we don't help any religious movement." That's all. We don't get any help. Simply Kṛṣṇa has given us this chance of selling these books. That's all. Nobody's cooperating. Rather, when our people go to sell these literatures and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, they're arrested and harassed.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Dr. Hauser: But the interest... The religious interest in Russia is, is greater than in any other country in Europe. But not the, the leaders are not...

Prabhupāda: I say the leaders. Not only in Russia. Everywhere. The leaders, the rascal leaders spoiling the whole world situation. In India also. In India, by nature, they are aloof from these four principles of sinful life. Eighty percent of the population, by nature. But government, at the present moment, the leaders, they're inducing them to eat meat, to drink. And gambling also. Introducing. Gambling. Government is issuing that gambling cards. Because government means some rascal just like Nixon has gone to the power. Now he's proved he's a rascal. So everywhere the government leaders means all rascals.

Interviews with Macmillan and various English Reporters -- September 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: As it is, because there are many foolish rascals, they interpret unnecessarily. Just like Kurukṣetra. Kurukṣetra is a place in India, still existing. So in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ (BG 1.1). The meaning is clear, that "Kurukṣetra is a religious place and there, the Pāṇḍavas and the Kurus, they assembled together for fighting." But many so-called leaders, political leaders, scholars, they have interpreted, "Kurukṣetra means the body."

Interviews with Macmillan and various English Reporters -- September 12, 1973, London:

Prof. Gombrich: My speciality is Buddhism.

Prabhupāda: Buddhism.

Prof. Gombrich: Yes.

Prabhupāda: A religious student. A specialist in religious, comparative study of religion?

Prof. Gombrich: Well, not so much comparative. I main, I really teach Buddhism itself.

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Prof. Gombrich: Through Sanskrit and Pali.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Śrutakīrti:

śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ

kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca

jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ

brahma-karma svabhāva-jam

(BG 18.42)

"Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge and religiousness—these are the qualities by which the brāhmaṇas work."

Prabhupāda: So those who will act as brain, they must possess these qualities. But who is being taught these qualities? This modern civilization is teaching people how to steal, how to cheat, how to satisfy your own sense gratification. You see? No tolerance, no complete knowledge. All fools and rascals, no knowledge. Knowledge means they must know what is the aim of life, what is God, what we are, what is this material world, why we have come here. So many things. This is called God consciousness. There is no such educational institution all over the world. Is there any institution where it is being especially taught what is God, what I am. Is there any institution?

Morning Walk -- December 4, 1973, Los Angeles:

Yaśomatīnandana: In the Vedic literatures it is stated dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19). They can't even understand a simple thing.

Prabhupāda: No. dharma means the codes, the laws of God. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam... (BG 18.66). This is dharma. Kṛṣṇa says that "You give up your nonsense manufactured religion. Here is religion. Surrender unto Me." Who will deny? Any religious person will accept it. Who will deny it? This is dharma. Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). So who will deny? Who is that man who will deny this statement, that one has to surrender to the Supreme? Who will deny it? Therefore it is dharma. You have to submit, just like the government. The government is the supreme, who will deny? Who will deny?

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. But that is not very good. Therefore these, they became independent now. But actually, slave means that. If the master likes... What is that light? Some ship?

Hṛdayānanda: Yes.

Karandhara: I think that's an oil well.

Prabhupāda: Oh, oil drilling. So you are theologician. You start this movement, plus our Hare Kṛṣṇa party. And leaders, the propaganda should be that the, at least the priests, who are conducting religious activities, they, the priests and the leaders and the administrators, they must be sinless. Or... Sinless means they should not indulge in these four prohibited principles. Others may do. But the leaders, the political executive, administrators, and the priests who are conducting the church, they must be free from sinful life. Otherwise, there is no question of peace in the society.

Morning Walk -- December 9, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: In the early days of science, about three, four hundred years ago, Śrīla Prabhupāda, many of the early scientists were persecuted by the church for their discoveries. So since that time, the scientists have declared war on religion, and they have been doing their best to try to disprove all religious things.

Prabhupāda: What they have discovered? These four hundred years, the scientists said that there is no God?

Prajāpati: No, they were... One scientist, Galileo, he was making all kinds of inquiries into saying that the earth is round and so many things, and the church of that day, the rascal priests, they put him to death because he was saying things that were not in the scriptures. Since that time, especially the last hundred years, the scientists are...

Prabhupāda: No, the things is that it is the government's duty to see that nobody is rascal, either the scientist is rascal or the priest is rascal. There must be real understanding. That is government's duty. Otherwise, if the priest says, "The scientist speaking against religion; therefore he should be hanged," so that is not good government. Government must see that whether the scientist is speaking the truth. That sense must be there.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Now here is scientific church. They refuse to take advice from the church because at the present moment church is a bogus thing. So what is the use of taking advice from them?

Hṛdayānanda: That was actually... That was actually the reason they made that separation.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hṛdayānanda: They became disgusted with the...

Prabhupāda: Yes. It's simply, we can say, what is called? Stereotype, the church. Just like you said they want more pay. Payment... They have no knowledge, so what is the use of taking advice from such rascals? What is the use? But here it is not like that. We know the science of God. We know who is God. It is not a vague thing. Now you try to understand. Let there be educational institution. America has got so many universities. Let there be a department. There is already a religious department. So let the students learn the science of God. We have got so many books. Why they will not? They are actually appreciating. So this should be introduced in the university, in colleges, in schools. Why they should neglect such a, such an important scientific knowledge?

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Yaśomatīnandana: So if we simply follow your instructions, then I am sure that it will come out glorious.

Nara-nārāyaṇa: So if we are in the proper line, then our political activities also can become successful?

Prabhupāda: Oh yes. Why not? Kṛṣṇa was in politics. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means all-round: social, political, philosophical, religious, cultural, everything. It is not one-sided. They take it as... They do not know. Therefore they are thinking it is a religious movement. No, it is all-including, all-including, all-pervasive.

Umāpati: Well, they have incorporated a particular philosophy into the constitution requiring separation of church and state, what they call separation of church and state in this country.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is... We have already separated. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. That is already separated.

Umāpati: So there are certain restrictions about religious organizations entering politics.

Prabhupāda: So what does it mean? Christians, they do not take part in politics?

Umāpati: Well, they can't do it as...

Karandhara: Not the churches.

Prabhupāda: No, not the churches. Our gṛhasthas will take part. The sannyāsīs will give advice. Directly the gṛhasthas will fight. Gṛhastha, not gṛhastha. There should be an administrative class. That is... Now it is prescribed in the Bhagavad-gītā. There should be four classes: brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. Now, it is spoken by God.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Why these politician says, "In God we believe, we trust"? Why this nonsense?

Umāpati: They fear theocracy. They fear being ruled by a priestly class. That is a very old fear in the west.

Prabhupāda: No, no, that's all right. But if the politicians, administration, trust in God, that becomes religious. How they separate? Currency note is economic problem. So how they are mixing with God? They are contradictory. You cannot separate God from any field of activities. And religion, they do not know what is the meaning of religion. Our definition of religion is to abide by the order of God. So does it mean, the politicians they do not abide by the orders of God? Then why do they write, "In god we trust"?

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: In the constitution is written in religious freedom. You should let... Anyone who wants to practice anything, it's all right in the constitution.

Prabhupāda: Religious freedom means everyone is rascal and every religion is rascaldom. So how they can check? They cannot check. Let it be. Go on.

Karandhara: It also says that has restrictions. Religious practices which harm people or are detrimental to the public good, they are checked.

Prabhupāda: So... Now here, why do they not check? A rascal, cheater, and he is presenting himself as God, and why the government is allowing him? Rather, we should bring a case that why government, against the constitution, is allowing this rascal that he is declaring that he is God? What qualification he has got? let it be decided in the court. We should do that.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Yaśomatīnandana: ...which into all the characteristics are described in Divine and Demoniac natures. This modern world fits into all the demoniac qualities...

Prabhupāda: Yes, because they are godless. Whole modern world is godless. They don't think of God very seriously. Everyone. They have described it as "Opiate," what is that?

Karandhara: "Opium of the people."

Prabhupāda: Yes. They think, "Those who are religious, they are simply wasting their time." Therefore communist country, they are completely against religion. They cannot allow their people to waste their time. That is their philosophy. This is the condition of the world.

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: They will say that such talk may be of use in a religious sphere, but it has no use ultimately in terms of science.

Prabhupāda: Everywhere it is useful because in scientific world also, you follow leader, Sir Isaac Newton, Professor Einstein. Why do you follow? There must be a leader.

Karandhara: Well, they just use the leaders as springboards. They don't accept them as absolute authorities.

Prabhupāda: No, it may be springboard, but you have to take their help. Because it is springboard, you cannot neglect. What do you think?

Morning Walk -- December 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: ...The most famous theologian of this century named Paul Tillich said that all words are symbols, and God is a religious symbol pointing to our ultimate concern.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that's nice. We say also.

Karandhara: Except Paul Tillich was the ultimate rascal. He was a debaucher. He debauched women all over Europe.

Hṛdayānanda: He recently died.

Karandhara: There is a book about him, a very inflammatory book about how he would debauch all of his friends. He said he got all of his inspirations after having sex with other women. He said after having sex he would get his inspirations on theology.

Prabhupāda: Sometimes the drunkards say also like that. They get inspiration by drinking.

Morning Walk -- December 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Certainly. Then their business will be finished. Then they will say, "Where we stand? It is all finished." Now you stand on a different platform.

Prajāpati: Yesterday, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in class, you mentioned how the churches, people could pay them for supposedly becoming very religious men. In Las Vegas, the capital of the gambling and the illicit sex and the intoxication, where all these things are very prominent, the churches there are very prominent also. These big demons, they pay large money to the churches and therefore they feel like they are very religious men even though they are committing all these sinful activities.

Prabhupāda: Yes. And by taking their sinful money, because they do not engage to Kṛṣṇa, they also become sinful. Affection. Infection. (break) They have mentioned something like sinful?

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: (break) ...current, popular for the last few score of years of western theology, called systematic theology, in which the various areas of religious or spiritual understanding were covered almost in category. They would take a certain phrase like "creation..."

Prabhupāda: No, no. Some kind of speculation.

Prajāpati: I am not talking about the content which is nonsense, but the form which expounds each area of thought by itself.

Prabhupāda: Jurisdiction.

Prajāpati: Yes.

Karandhara: That's known as speculation.

Prajāpati: But would it be a good proposition to present Kṛṣṇa conscious philosophy in such a systematic way?

Prabhupāda: Oh yes, you do it. Do it. That is intelligence. Here is the only systematic way to understand God. You simply try to understand the first verse of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Then everything is explained there. Now you can... I have explained that, what is meant by God.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1974, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: We were thinking for the administrator there could be a judge.

Prabhupāda: Ah.

Karandhara: Could be a judge, a high-court judge.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That means administrator.

Karandhara: Yes. The other one could be the president.

Prabhupāda: Yes, president also administrator. No, one is in the religious order. That is also required. But here we see, persons who are in religious order, they're also addicted to these four sinful, four sinful life. And he's presenting himself as religious.

Karandhara: On the one should we depict meat-eating or animal slaughter?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Karandhara: Should we depict animal-slaughter or meat-eating?

Prabhupāda: Animal slaughter.

Karandhara: Animal slaughter.

Prabhupāda: That will be still broader.

Karandhara: Yes.

Prabhupāda: The three figures and one is in a suit, one... They all have tilaka, neck beads and bead bag...

Prabhupāda: Religious man may be in saffron color, a sannyāsī, a tridaṇḍī sannyāsī. Our Gurukṛpā Mahārāja? Where is he?

Karandhara: Gurukṛpā Mahārāja.

Prabhupāda: Eh? Here are religious men.

Nara-nārāyaṇa: Oh! (laughter) Jaya!

Room Conversation -- February 6, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: "They, for whom I wanted this kingdom, they are in my path. I have to kill them. So what kind of fight is this?" Then?

Pradyumna:

prāṇāṁs tyaktvā dhanāni ca

ācāryāḥ pitaraḥ putrās

tathaiva ca pitāmahāḥ

mātulāḥ śvaśurāḥ pautrāḥ

śyālāḥ sambandhinas tathā

Prabhupāda: "I have to kill them, all the religious and family members." Then?

Pradyumna: Etān na hantum icchāmi.

Prabhupāda: "I don't like. I don't want this fight." (laughs)

Pradyumna: Ghnato 'pi madhusūdana.

Prabhupāda: "Then let them kill me. I'll tolerate that. But I am not going to kill them." Then?

Room Conversation -- February 9, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: She's very nice girl, actually. (aside:) Namaskar. (Hindi) (break) (Hindi—break)My eldest son was born in 1921.

Guest (2): I was born in 1917.

Prabhupāda: Seventeen. (Hindi conversation with many breaks) ...trustees. Because he contributes. He contributes and that boy, Gopāla Kṛṣṇa, he also contributes. (break) (laughter) You are not religious, huh? (laughter) (break)

Guest (3): ... stay at Rādhā-Rāmaṇa in Puruṣottama Gosvāmī's old house, in Rādhā-Rāmaṇa. Lately I'm staying at Bon Mahārāja's āśrama. (indistinct—break)

Prabhupāda: So what is the condition of the work, finished?

Guru Dāsa: Not finished. (break)

Morning Walk -- February 17, 1974, Bombay:

Guest (3): But Swamiji, sexual intercourse after marriage is against law of Manu?

Prabhupāda: No, that is also... There is law. You cannot have sexual intercourse with wife as you like, no. That is also illicit sex. Then... When the woman is in menstrual period, after five days, you can have once. As soon as she is pregnant, no more sexual intercourse. This is human being. Not that like animal. Animals also, they have got restrictions. You see? The lions, they have sexual intercourse once in life. Once in life. Brahmacārī. You see? So as soon as you violate the laws, then you are animal. Because law is meant for man. Just like "Keep to the right" and "left" in the road. It is meant for human being, not for the dogs. Dog, if he keeps right or left, it is not under law. But if you keep your car instead of left to the right, then you are criminal. (pause) So which way we have to go?... Human life begins when he understands what is dharma. That is human life, beginning. Aushikha (?) (Hindi) Jaiye aur Hindu religion hai, Muslim religion hai, Christian religion hai, Buddhist religion hai, Jewish religion hai. The religion must be there. But when we give up this religious process, then there is no more human life; it is animal life. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- February 22, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Means nobody follows. Because Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). Who is doing that?

Dr. Patel: Here dharma means all actions...

Prabhupāda: Dharma means occupational duties.

Dr. Patel: Actions.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Duty. Dharma means duty.

Dr. Patel: "You give up all other actions and do actions for Me."

Prabhupāda: Dharma does not mean so-called some religious fanaticism. Dharma means occupational duty. Just like you are medical man. You have practiced medical dharma. Medical dharma.

Dr. Patel: So I went yesterday early, after quarreling. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's all right. No, that's all right. One must... Just like Arjuna. Arjuna was a fighter. His dharma was to fight.

Morning Walk -- February 22, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no. Religion does not depend on history. It does not depend on history. It depends on culture, how one is sincere.

Dr. Patel: But when one culture is infected by a dirty culture of other people, the culture gets spoiled. You know, you put one...

Prabhupāda: Just like you are medical man. During British rule, you were medical man, and home rule, you are medical man. It does not mean it has to be changed because the government has changed. One who is unscrupulous, he changes.

Dr. Patel: What I mean to say is culture. If you take, put a...

Prabhupāda: Anything! Culture, this religious culture...

Dr. Patel: If you put two rotten mangoes in a tokari (?) of good mangoes, all will be rotten. That is what has happened to us.

Prabhupāda: So that means it is meant for the, who cannot resist.

Morning Walk -- February 23, 1974, Bombay:

Guest (2): They have their own apartment. They heard, and they have seen workers. They are barking... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...big animals.

Dr. Patel: I don't think he would say that so you could... Must have just joking. He's religious, highly religious man. Yogendra Bhai is the most highly religious man in the whole group. Eh?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You mean he actually said that?

Dr. Patel: Not actually, he's... (?)

Prabhupāda: No, that's all right.

Dr. Patel: There is no question of action. It will also act, how much we are religious, only God knows.

Prabhupāda: (japa) (break) ...there is there. Jñāne prayāsam udapāsya namanta eva sanmukharitāṁ bhavadīya.

Dr. Patel: Up to now, I think this is the best part I have run across. One of the best parts. And that, that particular līlā of Kṛṣṇa is the most thrilling one. No?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 6, 1974, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That's all. Godless. They must be like that. Gandhi was a student of Bhagavad-gītā—never taught about Kṛṣṇa. This is his knowledge of Bhagavad-gītā, Bhagavad-gītā without Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee: They want the material after killing the source. After killing the cows, they want milk. After...

Prabhupāda: Gandhi was approached by the Hindus that "You are doing so much for the Mohammedans. The Mohammedans are obedient. So why don't you stop this cow killing?" "How can I interfere with their religious?" Just see.

Devotee: This is...

Prabhupāda: "Cow killing is religion." And he was such a fool that if somebody said that "Cutting the throat of others is my religion," he would allow, "Yes, you can do that."

Jayapatākā: Go this way, Śrīla Prabhupāda? (break)

Room Conversation -- March 20, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...disciple has read it that from government side there is an article that in Iranian country they want meat, so all these skinny cows should be killed and meat should be exported so that you can get oil economically. So one should not think of this religious sentiment. They should be practical. They should not object. Government is going to open many slaughterhouse to get oil, and kill these loitering, mischief loitering cows, no food. Like that. So government policy is that religious (indistinct) is an opiate of the (indistinct). It is a sentiment. It has no value. That is government conclusion. So therefore their decision is not to encourage these temples and this bhajana. To their point of view, it is useless. So indirectly or directly, they will patronize this. So under the circumstances, we have to make vigorous propaganda, public opinion. You see? Therefore I suggest that various meetings should be arranged in big, big halls and public meeting so that public may understand, at least, that this movement is very important. And let there be advertisement, different subject matter, to invite people here. They may come. Then I will explain. And all my students and others, they may hold, arrange for pan... I'll also speak. In that meeting make a nice gentleman president. In this way, create public opinion so that they will come here and they will sign this, "Yes, here must be one temple." Take signatures and...

Morning Walk -- March 24, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: All the ācāryas, they came from South India.

Dr. Patel: They are more religious.

Prabhupāda: Vallabhācārya also South India.

Dr. Patel: Vallabhācārya is from North, no?

Prabhupāda: South India. (break)

Morning Walk -- April 8, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...prasannātmā. Brahma-bhūta. That is called brahma-bhūta stage. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. This happiness and distress is the cause of śocati and kāṅkṣati. Kāṅkṣati means desiring to have something. This is distress. And lamenting for something, that is also distress. Actually, this is the material position. When we haven't got the things, we desire it. That is also distress. And when it is lost, that is also distress. But by illusion, they take it. When they get it, they think that it is happiness. This is māyā. Actually, to get the things, he has to undergo so much hard... A man is given credit... Suppose he was a poor man. He has now become multi-millionaire. He is given credit. But he does not see that he has simply passed through distress. But he... By illusion, he's thinking that he's happy. He's also thinking, and others also thinking, that "He has become happy." But actually it is distress. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (chants japa) (break) ...people become religious not for attaining the transcendental stage, but for material benefit, dharma, the artha. Artha means material opulence, that. They... These four things: dharma artha kāma mokṣa (SB 4.8.41, Cc. Ādi 1.90).

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Others also, followers. These ordinary, so-called Gosvāmīs in Vṛndāvana, in the outwardly, in religious dress, and inwardly they are committing so many sinful activities, they will become the dogs and hogs and monkeys in Vṛndāvana. So one Gosvāmī, he has taken very much objection to this writing, and he is making propaganda against me like anything. There was arrangement of reception. He stopped it. (break) That I have also written, that now, after finishing the sinful reaction, these monkeys and dogs will be liberated. That I have also written. (break) ...one has passed stool, during daytime, due to the sunshine, the upper side is dry. So if somebody says, "This side is better than the other side. The moist side is not so good. The dry side is good." (break) ...nation, you'll find (indistinct) gentlemen, but they do not know that these things are criminals. They think it is ordinary thing, illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication.

Press Conference -- April 18, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: We have to transmigrate from this body to another body. As I have transmigrated already from my childhood body to boyhood body, boyhood body to youth-hood body, now I am in a body very old, so similarly, as I am existing in spite of changing so many types of body, similarly, after changing this body, I will have to accept another body. This is the fact. But the modern education, they do not know it, neither they believe, even the practical example is there. And who is giving the example? The most authoritative Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. And there are so many different varieties of bodies.

jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi

sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati

kṛmayo rudra-saṅkhyakāḥ

pakṣiṇāṁ daśa-lakṣaṇam

There are nine lakhs varieties of life in the water. Similarly, twenty lakhs varieties of life in the trees and plants. Then there are insects, then there are birds, then there are animals, then there is human being. So this human form of body is obtained after evolution of many millions and trillions of years. It should not be... This is a chance for stopping this business of repetition of birth and death. But people, they have no knowledge how to stop it. Although everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā, everything is explained, but we are not utilizing. We are manufacturing our own concocted knowledge. Therefore we are suffering. If we read Bhagavad-gītā as it is, then all the solution of human society's problem are there. Economic, social, political, religious, cultural, philosophical—everything is there.

Morning Walk -- April 20, 1974, Hyderabad:

Pañcadraviḍa: These things, they are also in (sic:) Manu-saṁhitā?

Prabhupāda: That is for... Manu-saṁhitā forbids completely. Manu-saṁhitā is not religion. It is moral principles for conducting society. Religion is how to become devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is religion. That is natural. (break) "...shalt not kill," this is expectation. "Someday, in future, one may become religious." That's all. Because by killing, killing, they are going downer, down. So if they stop killing, some day they will be able to understand what is religion. Sukṛti. Because, without being freed from all sinful activities, nobody can understand what is God. Therefore about God, in India they can understand very easily. In other countries they cannot. Very few because always engaged in sinful activities, all forbidden sinful activities. Just like you said that gambling has been introduced in religion. Killing has been introduced in religion. What is that religion? The more they take to the sinful activities, the more they become implicated—again birth and birth and birth and birth. Unless one is completely free, he cannot understand what is God. Yeṣam anta-gataṁ pāpam. You know this verse? The Bhagavad-gītā, yes.

Morning Walk -- April 22, 1974, Hyderabad:

Pañcadraviḍa: What else...? In the middle of desert...? Babylon, Israel is all desert country. What will they do with sheep? They are not making wool coats.

Prabhupāda: Then why he has said, "Thou shalt not kill"? Then hypocrisy. Then you reject Jesus complete. He is a hypocrite. Yes. That is the conclusion. How can you follow hypocrite? Huh? Is that all right? If Jesus Christ himself killed animals and he said, "Thou shalt not kill," then he is a hypocrite. Then he cannot preach. He is a hypocrite. You are bringing Christ for condemnation. But how a hypocrite can be the head or can be the religious man or can be...

Akṣayānanda: It is not that we are saying he is a hypocrite.

Morning Walk -- April 23, 1974, Hyderabad:

Mahāṁsa: They have a wealth tax. So if you save that means you have more wealth, and then they tax.

Prabhupāda: And they will "relax" by drinking, "relax" minister. "You save money for our relaxation. That is our necessary. You don't spend money." And people are... Because they see that "If I save, it will be taken away. Let me spend lavishly." Yes. Just like we stayed there at Mr. Patel's house. There are three men only in the family: Mr. Patel, his son and his daughter-in-law. They have got eight cars, big, big cars, Rolls Royce. And about twenty servants. They know that "They will take it away. Better spend." Everyone is doing that. Because they know, "If I save, one day the government will take 98 per cent of my savings. Then why save? Better spend." They cannot give in religious institution. If they say they want to give something, no, that will not allowed. Yes. The whole idea is that "You save, and one day I shall take the whole money and we shall distribute amongst the ministers, Indira Gandhi and company. And we relax. We are working so hard, how to impose taxes upon you. So we must have relax." This is going on. Vicious society. (break) ...open. Let us open. (end)

Interview with Minister -- April 26, 1974, Tirupati:

Prabhupāda: America is a big place, three thousand miles, square miles. So I don't think any temple has been erected in New York.

Minister: No, it is proposed to.

Prabhupāda: Temple... Just like these Christian missionaries, they constructed so many churches. But those churches are now being closed. In London, I have got specific knowledge, hundreds of churches are no more being used as church. Some of them are being used as go-down. And some of the churches have been purchased by other religious sect. We have purchased one church in Los Angeles. So opening temple is good but who will maintain the spirit of temple worship?

Morning Walk -- April 29, 1974, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Whatever you need, Kṛṣṇa will supply, if you actually remain dependent on Kṛṣṇa. There are so many literatures of different groups, but who is selling so much? Forty thousand, fifty thousand daily? Unless Kṛṣṇa is helping us. In the history no religion book have sold thirty thousand, forty thousand daily. There is no history. So why don't you see this wonderful thing? All the money that I have brought from USA, India, it is all book fund. Nobody has given. George has given. That is not in cash. And he gave that two lakhs. That was spent for Kṛṣṇa Book. So wherefrom the cash is coming?

Gargamuni: Sales of books.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Because we have got substantial sale of books, we are free to get money. And it is unbelievable that religious books are sold thirty thousand, forty thousand, fifty thousand daily. There is no history.

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 1, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: This M.N. Raya, you know, who advocated that humanism, for which he was banished by the Communist fellows because the root of M.N. Raya was in Hinduism, no? After all? It is very difficult for us to think about so-called Communism. But religion itself is Communistic.

Prabhupāda: No, no. We, we don't think in terms of Hinduism. We don't think.

Dr. Patel: No. But we have been actually brought up religiously as communists, religious communists.

Prabhupāda: Spiritual communists. Religious, religious upon strict sense of religion. Religion means spiritualism.

Dr. Patel: Yes, spiritual communism.

Prabhupāda: Dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam (SB 6.3.19).

Morning Walk Excerpts -- May 2, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...arrange meetings in the school, colleges, societies, big, big halls. Because they may not come. They are not attracted to the temple meetings. They think, "This temple is temple, some priestly class." They want philosophy, logic, science. So they have to be convinced. Not sentiments. So those who are advanced, they are not in favor of religious sentiments, because they have got experience, "Now, some sentiments..." But they do not understand what is this sentiment. Therefore they have to be understood through logic, philosophy, science. (break)

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

O'Grady: The best truth, and I think it's truth for most of us who take ourselves seriously...

Prabhupāda: Just like in our society, we have got Americans, we have got Africans, Canadians, Indians, Christians, Jews, Mohammedans. But they are no longer Mohammedan, American, Christian or African. They are all servants of Kṛṣṇa. And that is Brahmān realization.

O'Grady: But that's giving it a name also.

Prabhupāda: Yes, name, must be there. But name... Just like you are feeling as Irishman, but your name may be different from another Irishman. How do you feel that "We are all Irishmen"? The name may be different. That doesn't matter. But the quality can be one. That is required. So when acquires that quality, Kṛṣṇaite quality, that in spite of different names... That is called so 'ham. One feels... The same example: In a nation, in a group, the names may be different, but because they feel nationally or religiously one, so that is one. Varieties. Varieties may be different, but the object being one, that is oneness. What is that, brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā?

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Richard Webster: Well. I understand. But I only think that the dietetic rules would be perhaps an obstacle to the spreading... I mean certain rules which are clean against European or American custom might constitute an obstacle to the spreading of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. I mean, in the Roman Catholic church you have the monks. Then you have the laity who observe less strict rules without being considered outside God. And you don't have that, do you? I mean, the Kṛṣṇa movement is a movement of what we should call monks or religious... There is no laity in the Roman Catholic Christian sense, people of the world who are doing messy things, I mean, trading the drugs or whatever it is because it's a job they have to do, but belong to the church without being strictly religious.

Prabhupāda: At least the church people, the priests, they must follow strictly the rules.

Richard Webster: Yes. But I mean the difference seems to be with the Christian...

Prabhupāda: Common man may not follow or cannot, but those who are teachers or the priest or the leaders or the executive head, they must follow. Otherwise they cannot remain pure and they cannot take the position of teacher or head. Head must be clean. Other parts may be unclean, but the head must be clean; otherwise the whole business will be spoiled. Therefore, the strictures, rules and regulation, must be followed by four persons. One person is the executive head like the president or the king. And the other person is the religious preacher, priest. And the other person is the public leader. So at least these three, four heads of the men's human society, they must be of ideal character. Otherwise the whole society will be spoiled. People will follow the heads.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

C. Hennis: ...a valid... That's a valid point, because it has always been found in every society that there is a need for a priestly class or a class of philosophical leaders of one kind or another. And the fact of this is recognized in the whole of the world society. I think not only in the West, but in the East, too, there's a need for the religious...

Prabhupāda: Now the so-called, the priestly society, priestly society, they are amending the Biblical injunction according to their whims. Just like in the Bible, the injunction is, "Thou shalt not kill." But the priestly class and all classes, they are simply killing. So how they can guide? They are keeping regular slaughterhouse for killing. So how they can guide? I have asked so many Christian gentlemen, including priests that "Your injunction is that 'Thou shalt not kill.' That is Lord Jesus Christ's order. Why you are violating this?" They give me vague answers. Directly it is said, "Thou shalt not kill." And the whole world is simply killing poor animals, and keeping up-to-date slaughterhouse.

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: When I was in school, I read that when the British went to Africa to colonize, the first thing they did... In the north there was a tribe called the Ashanti tribe. And the symbol of religion was an axe. Whoever possessed that axe was a leader. So the first thing they did was to import thousands and thousands of axes and they distributed them to everyone. In this way, they destroyed the religious sentiment and then introduced their own system.

Prabhupāda: Who first started this colonization? Britishers or the Spaniards?

Yogeśvara: It was a Britisher.

Karandhara: Spaniards were, I think Portuguese.

Prabhupāda: Portuguese. Because they had very small land.

Karandhara: They were navigators.

Prabhupāda: So find out some place.

Bhagavān: The boy didn't realize the potency of your answer last night. He was asking how to fight fascism, and you were saying by chanting and dancing. So factually, by setting the example is the greatest way to fight all these maladies.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Nitāi:

śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ

kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca

jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ

brahma-karma svabhāva-jam

(BG 18.42)

"Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge, and religiousness, these are the qualities by which the brāhmaṇas work."

Prabhupāda: So the Vedic conception is that the human society should be divided into four divisions, namely the brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, and śūdra, natural division. One section of the human society should work as the brain. Another section should work just like the arms, another section, like the belly, another section, like the leg. These four divisions are essential. That is also mentioned, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). Find out this verse.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1974, Geneva:

Guru-gaurāṅga: That man yesterday wanted to know if we collaborated with other groups.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is collaboration. We are proposing this collaboration. All religion, they're after... Religion means to accept God. So if you accept God, we accept God. Then where is no cooperation? This is cooperation. But if you don't know what is God, we know. That is the difference. Ask this Christians, Mohammedans, and any other religious group, they have got a conception of God, ask them what is the form of God, what does He do, what is His..., so many things. They do not know. But we know.

Morning Walk -- June 8, 1974, Geneva:

Guru-gaurāṅga: In America there are two new sects, religious sects, that appear every month.

Prabhupāda: Every month. Different sect.

Devotee: Two.

Prabhupāda: Every month, what do you mean by every month?

Guru-gaurāṅga: Every month there are two new religious sects that appear.

Prabhupāda: Oh. And they'll accept God?

Guru-gaurāṅga: Well, they invent their own God their own way. In Europe they laugh at the Americans and their religions because they know this.

Prabhupāda: If religion, new religion, that means new God? Or what it is?

Satsvarūpa: New way of approaching God.

Prabhupāda: But you want to approve God, if we agree to that, then this is the easiest process. You chant God's name and you approach. Why again new? This is the easiest proposition. Eh? Chant God's name and you approach.

Room Conversation with Christian Priest -- June 9, 1974, Paris:

Pradyumna:

yadā yadā hi dharmasya

glānir bhavati bhārata

abhyutthānam adharmasya

tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham

(BG 4.7)

"Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O descendant of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion—at that time I descend Myself."

Prabhupāda: So at least in the human society, everyone must have understanding of God, that is expected. It is not expected in the society of cats and dogs because they are animals. The human being, dharmasya glāniḥ, there is dharma, some sort of religious system. And religious system means to understand God. That's all. Just like to become a lawyer means to understand the laws of the state. Similarly, religious system means the process by which one can understand God. And that is the summary of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje (SB 1.2.6).

Room Conversation with M. Lallier, noted French Poet -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

M. Lallier: Is it possible if we are, for example, a fly, to, to become religious.

Yogeśvara: If one has fallen so far that he has taken the body of a fly or a mosquito, can he still return to Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Yes. As he degraded from the body of Brahmā to fly, similarly, he can also ascend from the body of a fly to the body of Brahmā.

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Pṛthu Putra: He says that liberation of India from the English was done because of many, various forces, but that amongst the people, the common mass of people who helped to liberate India, there was, of course, a religious people. But there was religious people on both sides. There was religious people amongst those who wanted to liberate India, but also among those who wanted the English to be there, not in imperialism.

Yogeśvara: In other words, his point, essentially, is that religious sentiment was there on both sides. It was there on the imperialists' side as well as on the side of those who were fighting for India's liberation. So there seems to be a kind of dichotomy. Religious sentiments can be expressed by anyone, whatever their motivation is. Whether it be imperialist, whether it be communist... Religious sentiment is found...

Prabhupāda: What is religious sentiment? (French for some time)

Jyotirmayī: He says again that in India, now also there's a big struggle because they are trying to solve the immediate problems of hunger, you know, all these problems, now, and, of course, there is a religious people on the side of those who are struggling, but there's also religious people on the other side, of those who want to keep the situation as it is now... And then he said that...

Prabhupāda: Religious people wants to keep the situation? Starving? Starving situation? (French for some time)

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Jyotirmayī: This man, for example, the one that he just cite, he is also a religious man, but he is against the change now. He wants to keep as it is imperialism. You know. So he said that there are so many of these people who are religious and they are, of course, all they have good goals, that is to help people. You find people referring Bhagavad-gītā on the side of those who are struggling now to change the situation and the side, on the side of those who are keeping the situation as it is. So he says there is an ambiguity there.

Prabhupāda: Ambiguity means he is not clear in his knowledge. What is religion and what is liberation—these things he does not know clearly. (French)

Jyotirmayī: He says that now they are using religion for their own interests and for their own goals.

Prabhupāda: Who is that man? (French)

Jyotirmayī: He said all the social forces in India wants to keep their own privileges.

Prabhupāda: So? The communist does not? (French)

Jyotirmayī: He said that in Marxism there is no religious references.

Prabhupāda: But the, what is called, terrorism facility, there is. There is no religious sentiment, but there is terrorism sentiment. Some sentiment is there. (French)

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Jyotirmayī: So he said that in India all the planners of the government, they are religious people. Some of them are brāhmaṇas, but still they have been arresting forty-thousand people working on the railways for no good reason. So that's why he said that religion is used by the people for their own privileges.

Prabhupāda: Therefore I asked what does he mean by religion. (French)

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Jyotirmayī: So he says that those who have been just religious and working for the independence, they didn't do any real good.

Prabhupāda: Now, first of all, our proposition is what does he mean by religion? (French)

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: That there is a creator and then you, but rather, that there is a harmony with the individual being and the totality of existence, not just on an individual religious level, but also socially. So in other words, he's seeing that this advaita philosophy, this non-dual philosophy is very nice on the political or social level as well since it teaches a kind of unity of the individual with everything.

Prabhupāda: This is not very clear. (laughs) Now, dualism means two, and monism is one. So he says monism, advaita. So monism, what is the center of monism? (French)

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Devotee: He says, "Give up all this religiousness, and surrender to Me." The whole purport of the Bhagavad-gītā. He's telling Arjuna to fight, but ultimately in the end, He's saying, "Just forget about all these ideas you have in your head, and surrender to Me."

Prabhupāda: Yes, Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: "Me" means Kṛṣṇa.

Devotee: Right.

Prabhupāda: So then Kṛṣṇa is everything.

Devotee: Mām ekam.

Prabhupāda: Yes, mām ekam, "only to Me." (French) So anyone who has studied Bhagavad-gītā rightly, he'll do that, surrender to Kṛṣṇa. (French)

Room Conversation with Roger Maria leading writer of communist literature -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Bhagavān: So if he is a man of action, let us see. He has got his philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā. We have got our philosophy. Let us see by the results whose action is doing things. We have no political problem, we have no economic problem, we have no social problem. What more action does he want?

Prabhupāda: Religious problem. Any problem.

Bhagavān: No problem. So what does that indicate? And you have all problems. (French)

Prabhupāda: Now, this question... Listen. Our Bhagavān says that he has no problem. We have no problem. And you have got all problems. So who is better? Who is better?

Morning Walk -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Paramahaṁsa: The government argues that they do not want to discriminate against any religious faith. So they remain secular.

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is no governmen... Religious faith is different. That is nonsense. You, we are talking of science. We are, just like we were saying that everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. So where is the, any religious feeling? Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa, how you can say no? Can you say?

Paramahaṁsa: They can say, "We don't know Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: You don't know Kṛṣṇa, but it belongs to somebody. He may be named as Kṛṣṇa or something else. That doesn't matter. But it is, it does not belong to you. How you can deny it? You have come here... Suppose I have come here, in Paris. I stay here for one week, two. Does it mean Paris is mine? Similarly, you come from the womb of your mother and stay here, say, fifty years. That is mean yours? The same example. Does it mean that the world belongs to you? Why you are claiming, "This is France," "This is Europe," "This is America," "This is mine," "This is mine..."? Before your birth it was there, and when you go, it will remain there. So how you claim that it is yours? So you don't... You must know as it remained, it was there before my birth, and it will remain after my departure. Then how it belongs to you? What is the answer?

Room Conversation with Russian Orthodox Church Representative -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Bhagavān: Once last year a man in London, a professor in a religious school, said the same thing, and you said that according to our Vedic philosophy, if a teacher doesn't know something, he should step down. And His answer was, "I can't do that." (Prabhupāda chuckles)

Paramahaṁsa: It seems amazing that such fundamental questions, they remain mute, such people like this, who are supposed to be qualified to bring other people out of their distress.

Karandhara: That's why the church now has lost everyone, because even its leaders are saying, "I don't know anything. I'm just fumbling around like everyone else. I don't really know anything definite."

Prabhupāda: Still, he is leader?

Karandhara: Yes.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: The impersonalists, Lord Caitanya said that they are the greatest offenders to Lord Kṛṣṇa. So most of the so-called religious people of the world today, if they have a conception of God, it is that God is impersonal spirit. Does that mean they are to be classified, at least in terms of this understanding, amongst the demons and asuras?

Karandhara: No, in this instance this man is... It's not as much that he's an impersonalist as that he has no clear idea one way or the other. He's ignorant. An impersonalist is someone in the classic sense who has... He's aware of the Vaiṣṇava philosophy, but he rejects that, that God is definitely not a person, and he takes that as being a lower conception.

Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Pṛthu Putra: He says from the medical point that's all right. But from the religious point...

Prabhupāda: So you are talking about medical point. Why you place something utopian? (French)

Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Pṛthu Putra: What is important for him is here and now what he's doing in the instant. He says death is just part of life.

Bhagavān: So what difference does it make if someone becomes religious or if someone becomes a demon? (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says in a demoniac person there is some religiosity, and in a religious person there is some demoniac qualities too.

Bhagavān: Are you a demon? (French)

Pṛthu Putra: As we want.

Prabhupāda: No, so far we know, Lord Buddha is considered as incarnation of God. He was sympathetic with the animal-killing. So he wanted to stop this animal-killing. (French)

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: When you were here last year, there was a meeting at the Indian Tourist Bureau, a press meeting, and there was a man who came to meet you at that time who is president of the court of Paris. And he was supposed to be a Buddhist. Do you remember this gentleman? He said to you that "Meat-eating... We must eat meat in the West. Maybe in India, because of the climate, you can get away with that."

Prabhupāda: That is rascaldom, another rascaldom. He's a first-class rascal. That was the support by Vivekananda. He was eating everything. All the Ramakrishna Mission, they say like that, "Oh, without meat-eating, without drinking, you cannot stay." All rascals. Therefore, the conclusion is, all rascals, the religious, social, all rascal. If they want to be saved from their rascal position, this is the only, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If they don't want to be saved, if they want to go to hell, who can check? Ātma-han. Ātma-han means "self-suicide." Suicide, yes. If you cut your throat yourself, who can save you? So they are all these like, all, all these Buddhists, Christian. We may not speak very strongly. They will be our enemies.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Professor Durckheim: May I come back once to my question, master, the relationship between belief and experience, because this is a great question for us today, especially also in the religious circles, and theologians, the priests and the monks.

Prabhupāda: No, believe the authority. That is the... That is better than experience.

Professor Durckheim: Yes. That is what in our country is... I have very much to do with people who are living in monasteries or churches and so on.

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Please come here so that he'll not be disturbed. You come here. Belief...

Professor Durckheim: They realize that now belief which is not faith has to be, well, renewed by real experiences. And, you see, we have so many priests today who say they can't pray anymore. They lost the connection because of so much formalism and so much traditional beliefs. And they are looking for a new source and new beginning in their hearts, and they don't believe what you tell them. They just want to feel it, to experience it. And there is a big change today in this direction, and there is a..., big movements. You see all these trends today to learn meditation. It's only one longing to feel something and not only to believe. That is the situation now very much in Germany, isn't it so?

Dr. P. J. Saher: Yes, it is.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So thing is that, first thing is that you have to believe, but whom to believe? If the person whom I believe, if he is perfect, then my belief is perfect. And if I believe a person who is not trustworthy, then there is no meaning of this belief. Therefore we have to find out the person or the statement which are to believe. That is accepted in the Vedic culture, that the knowledge in the Vedas, that is perfect. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). If one is perfect in Vedic knowledge... Veda, Veda means knowledge, perfect knowledge. So that belief is perfect. Just like we are believing Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is accepted as the perfect, the supreme perfect. So far we Indians are concerned, there are ācāryas, just like Śaṅkarācārya, Madhvācārya, Rāmānujācārya. Actually these ācāryas are controlling the Indian culture. So all of them are unanimous to believe Kṛṣṇa, the supreme perfect person.

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Satsvarūpa:

śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ

kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca

jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ

brahma-karma svabhāva-jam

(BG 18.42)

"Translation: Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, calmness, honesty, wisdom, knowledge and religiousness. These are the qualities by which the brāhmaṇas work."

Prabhupāda: That is the qualities of the highest intelligent class of men. So if you do not find such qualities, how his knowledge should be perfect? These are the qualities. (German)

Morning Walk -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Haṁsadūta: In greenhouses. They play music. Then they become more healthy.

Prabhupāda: Just see. Their sensation is very covered. Just like you cut the nails. There is no sensation. And does it mean there is no sensation-therefore there is no life? Unless there is life, how it is growing? It is growing; therefore you cut. But when you cut, there is no sensation. But there is life. Otherwise, how it is growing? The same nail, when you cut, you throw it on the ground. It will not grow. These are practical example. Just like little child. Their sensation is less. I know. My eldest daughter, when she was six months old, there was some boil. So the doctor operated. She simply, "Uh, uh," no cried. I have seen it. She was not crying. But the same boil, when a fully developed man, he will feel more sensation. So according to the body, the sensations are different. The same things, means mind, intelligence and ego, according to the body, they act differently. But the mind, intelligence and ego are there. The dog is coming, and if I say, "Hut!", unless it has got intelligence, how it goes away the other way? There is intelligence. There is no language, but because he has got intelligence, he can immediately understand I don't want him to come here. So how you can say there is no intelligence? The rascals say "The animals have no intelligence; therefore they have no soul." If one has no intelligence, there is no soul. That is admitted. But here is intelligence. How can you deny, "There is no soul"? The animals, the cows, when they are taken to the slaughterhouse, why they cry? Because he has intelligence that "Now I am going to be killed." And these rascals say there is no soul. And still, they are religious priests. Such fools and rascals are made religious fools, priests. No common sense. And they also get degree, Doctor of Divinity, DD. (break) ...Greek scholar, here in this Germany or in nearby?

Room Conversation -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Devotee: Religious is automatically regulated sex life?

Prabhupāda: If it is religious life. If in the name of religion it is sinful life, that is another thing. Alright Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)

Room Conversation -- June 20, 1974, Germany:

Guest: The process of change of consciousness which is actually taking place in you under many influences, I think.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Guest: Under many influences.

Prabhupāda: No, influence should be only Kṛṣṇa or God. Kṛṣṇa, when we speak of Kṛṣṇa, God, but they have no clear idea what is God. How does He speak, how does He act. Where does He live. What is His form. What is his color. Nobody knows. Ask any religious people, "Do you know about all these?" (tape too faint to hear) (indistinct) If they think about it at all. First of all, generally they think of something impersonal or void. The Buddhists they think God is zero. And others they think God has no form. So, two classes. The Hindus they think God has not particular form, (indistinct). And you can imagine any of them(?) That is Śaṅkara. The pañcopāsanā. But still Śaṅkara is very careful. He has given five particular forms—the Goddess Durgā, Lord Viṣṇu, Lord Siva, the sun. Therefore there are sections—the sun worshipers, the fire worshipers. Originally, (indistinct). That is Vedic culture. Their Vedic culture means many demigods. But the original God is accepted, Viṣṇu. And original to Viṣṇu is Kṛṣṇa. īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1).

Room Conversation with Pater Emmanuel (A Benedictine Monk) -- June 22, 1974, Germany:

Pater Emmanuel: And Kṛṣṇa cannot give the same permission for the animals?

Prabhupāda: Yes, the animal kingdom in the nature's way... Just like the grass is the food of the cow, and the cow is the food for man, but not for civilized man, religious man. The crude man. (German) (break) The perfect human being is described: śamo damas titikṣā ārjavam. Find out. (break) ...killing of animals and child, Christ's name. Then it will be perfect. I have not come to teach you, but to request you that your Christian religion prohibit this and encourages chanting of name of the Lord. So you kindly do it, that's all. (German)

Room Conversation with Reverend Gordon Powell, Head of Scots Church -- June 28, 1974, Melbourne:

Satsvarūpa:

śamo damas tapaḥ śaucaṁ

kṣāntir ārjavam eva ca

jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ

brahma-karma svabhāva-jam

(BG 18.42)

"Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, wisdom, knowledge and religiousness—these are the qualities by which the brāhmaṇas work."

Prabhupāda: This is first quality man.

Reverend Powell: Well, there's a great similarity, isn't there, to the fruits of the holy spirit in the New Testament, with these qualities you've just...

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. When, when one is qualified with all these attributes and he acts accordingly, then he is first-class man.

Room Conversation -- June 28, 1974, Melbourne:

Satsvarūpa: But then there's also a teaching not to respect a nondevotee even if he's a big man. We may formally offer him respect, but if...

Prabhupāda: That's all right. Yes. Formality, you should be respectful. Suppose your enemy—that is etiquette-comes in your room. But when he has come to your room, you should offer him respect: "Come on, come on. Sit down." That is etiquette. You know that "He's my enemy." That... The etiquette according to Vedic civilization: gṛhe śatrum api prāptaṁ viśvastam akuto-bhayam. Even your enemy comes at your home, you should treat with him in such a nice way that he'll forget that you are his enemy. Gṛhe śatrum... That was... Just like Jarāsandha and Bhīma. They, they wanted that "We want to fight with you..." (Break) Unless one of the kings died... (Break) ...a strong flavor, and it is continually, continues. So long it is alive, the flavor is there. So where is that art, where is that science? When you have... Where is that scientist amongst the human society? They are very much proud of their scientific advancement. Everything see, the flowers and leaves, so artistically, beautifully manufactured that simply by seeing them you'll feel pleased. How the man can manufacture it? And still, they are denying the existence of God and taking all the credit. How foolish they are. Mūḍha. (laughter) Yes. Yes, they have been described as mūḍha. Now, we are appreciating immediately Kṛṣṇa's craftsmanship, artistic sense, and we are glorifying. So that should be done by everyone. But the mūḍhas, they will not do that. They'll explain away. They'll never admit God's hand, intelligence, brain is there. They'll never admit. Neither they will explain how it is. They know it, how it is done. It has been done, or it is being done by somebody. That they do not know, who is that somebody. And when we say it is Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa says, "It is I am," they'll not agree. This is their position. They do not know who is that somebody, and when we say, "Here is that somebody," they'll not believe it. This is mūḍha. Therefore it is said... The mūḍha cannot explain all... And at the same time, will not accept the real thing. That is mūḍha. Mūḍha means rascal. And they will set aside the thing, "Yes, scientifically we are searching. In future, we shall be able." And when that future will come? Past, present and future. The future will become past also. Just like tomorrow, 29th June, this is future. Now, day after tomorrow, it will be past. (laughter) So if you are talking of future, but where is the history... In the history the future is past. This is common sense. So therefore they have discovered this nonsense ad infinitum that future will never come. And still, they will set aside the business to some future and take the credit. Yes. "In future we shall be able to do it." And that future will never come. And still, they will take the credit. (laughter) Just see. Therefore mūḍha. This is the explanation of mūḍha. It is just like somebody offered you a post-dated check, and then he wants to clear his debt. Suppose I am debtor by hundreds of dollars to you. I give you a post-dated check, and still I say, "Now I am clear of your debt." And that post-dated check will never be paid. This is their theory. Na māṁ prapadyante mūḍhāḥ duṣkṛtino narādhamāḥ (BG 7.15). (pause) The government has recognized us as bona fide religious sect.

Devotee: In Australia?

Prabhupāda: Yes. The Attorney, in the... Attorney-General of the Federal Government. You saw that?

Satsvarūpa: I didn't see the paper.

Prabhupāda: They have recognized, bona fide religious sect. (pause) So the priestly order this morning, they liked it very much.

Reporters Interview -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Devotee: I have my working clothes on, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: All right. So there cannot be... but for particular reason or circumstances we call it, but religion is one. That means to abide by the laws of God. That is religion. If you do not know what is God, what is His law, that is another thing. But the religion means to abide by the laws of God, that's all. It cannot be Hindu, Muslim, Christian. Just like the state law. So there are many persons, citizens of the state. The law is not that it is for the Christians, it is for the Jews, it is for the Negroes, it is for the white man. It is not like that. Law is the same for everyone. You can call it, "This is Negro law, this is white law, this is black law..." No. That is not very scientific. Scientific is that God is there and we are all... God is great, we are all subordinates and we have to obey the orders of God. That is religion. Am I right or wrong?

Guest (2): You're right.

Prabhupāda: Therefore you cannot say, "Christian religion, Hindu religion, Muslim religion." Religion is religion. That's... God is neither Hindu, Muslim, Christian. God is God. God is one. We... It may be that God is one, but we understand Him from different angles of vision, and that different angles of vision may be called as Christian angle vision, the Hindu angle vision, this Jew's angle vision. But that is angle of vision. Now, just like the sun is there. Here we see it is not so bright, but you ask some Arabian friend. What is, he will say, "it is very bright." So his appreciation of the sun is different from your appreciation here. It is cloudy; it is misty. But the sun is the same. There is no such thing as Hindu religion, Muslim religion, Christian religion. It is all sophisticated. Religion is one. You must know what is God, and you must know what is order and abide by it. You are religious. That's all. We are preaching that.

Reporters Interview -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Guest (4): Your Divine Grace, there are many swamis and gurus and religious people throughout the world. How does one know which is the true guru?

Prabhupāda: One who knows Kṛṣṇa, he is guru. Otherwise a rascal. That's all.

Morning Walk -- July 9, 1974, Los Angeles:

Bali Mardana: I've never seen so many young Americans sit for, listen to the lecture so attentively.

Prabhupāda: And religious, most dry subject. Not cinema.

Bali Mardana: The newspaper said that it was the most favorite festival of all San Francisco, of all the festivals.

Prabhupāda: So they have mentioned, "American Hindus." (chuckles) (pause) It is a dead blow to the material civilization: "No drinking and no intoxication, no meat-eating, no gambling, no illicit sex." Their whole civilization is finished. Because they stand on these things, four pillars.

Morning Walk -- July 9, 1974, Los Angeles:

Jayatīrtha: What exactly is the definition of a cheat?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Jayatīrtha: What is the definition of a cheat?

Prabhupāda: Cheat means that I am exploiting you. I am saying that I am creating you a religious, but you are most sinful. I am creating a most sinful. That is cheating.

Guru-kṛpa: Giving something under false pretensions.

Prabhupāda: That's all. You are taking something else while thinking something else. That is cheating. Actually, we see the so-called religious system... Religion means to become lover of God. But who is lover of God? Do not know what is God, and what to speak of love Him. They do not know, have no clear conception of God even.

Jayatīrtha: They are lovers of dog.

Prabhupāda: And actually they are lovers of dog. And still, he's professing "I am religious." This is not cheating.

Hṛdayānanda: Yes, it's cheating. Imposter.

Morning Walk at Marine del Rey -- July 13, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: So even it is as it is, they may take in palanquin, but there must be a protest meeting continuously. Protest meeting and the Indians should approach the Ambassador that, "Represent our case to the Queen that Hindus are being harassed." This should be organized.

Bali Mardana: And also newspaper.

Prabhupāda: Also newspaper. There must be...

Bali Mardana: They can make advertisements in the newspaper.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That "On certain plea only, they have stopped our most important ceremony." In this way agitation must go on. And our men, those who took part in political agitation, they should go there and speak everywhere, that "It is religious discrimination."

Bali Mardana: They should have a protest meeting in front of the Parliament building, with signs.

Prabhupāda: Protest meeting must be there. How to organize? At least, a protest meeting should be done in such a way that the whole world may know that the British Government stopped the yearly Ratha-yatra ceremony of the Hindus. That should be organized. What can be done? You are not very strong GBC's. There must be vehement protest meeting.

Bali Mardana: They can protest in front of Downing Street, in front of the Prime Minister's residence.

Prabhupāda: Yes, protest meeting, go on, organize. Go, all of you. What is the talking here? They have seen that the movement is growing more important. So this is discrimination. In England the Church is very strong. They have organized like this. You quote the publication, "There is no alarm." Of course, it is on the plea of police protest, police objection. The police objection means one's religious ceremony should be stopped? What is this? Simply for some technical mistake, now they can warn that "You must do it. Otherwise it will be stopped." How is that? No. That means this is police government? Does it mean it is police government?

Bali Mardana: Police state.

Prabhupāda: Police state? And why they are declaring Commonwealth and, British Commonwealth. So if it is governed by the police, how it is Commonwealth? There should be very strong agitation. And all the Hindus will join. So who will organize it? Don't make it childish. It is very serious. (pause) Police should have taken task when the rules were broken by Mahādeva. Why they did not take action in that time? They did not say anything. Police, if there is discrepancy, violation of the rules, they should have taken immediate action. Why they did not take? Now they have manufactured by conspiracy that "This movement should be stopped. Now take this plea." This is going on.

Room Conversations -- September 10, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But if you remain diseased, then just like I have got this disease, no appetite. First-class things are being made—nothing is giving me any taste. Disease is there. Therefore, if you want to taste what is God, then you first of all try to cure your disease. Our disease, material disease is the lusty desire. Lusty desire is so strong that you will find it is existing amongst the so-called religionists performing religious rituals. But the same disease is there, that "If I execute the rituals, then I shall be promoted to the heavenly kingdom (indistinct)." Similarly, the so-called monist philosophers, meditation, this, that, the disease is there: "I shall become God." Similarly, the yogis, they can perform so many gymnastics, but the disease is there. The disease is cured when he is a devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa-bhakta niṣkāma, ataeva 'śānta' (CC Madhya 19.149). By kṛṣṇa-bhakti, you cure the disease. Hṛd-rogaḥ kāmam apahinoty acireṇa dhīraḥ. This is the only... Unless you have cured your material disease, you have to remain in this material world in any form and fulfill your material desire. The ant is also trying and Lord Brahmā is also trying. Hṛd-rogam. (break) He cannot sit down peacefully. At any moment, (indistinct). Padaṁ padaṁ vipadām. The material world means in every step there is danger. Every step. However you step... (end)