Prabhupāda: After the advent of Lord Buddha, a different religious system developed. Otherwise, before Lord Buddha, there was all the... Not only in India, in other parts of the world. They were followers of Vedic principles. So in that sense, you can say if followers of Vedic principles are called Hindus, then before Lord Buddha, everyone was Hindu all over the world. Not that particular part of India. So far we have got historical reference from Mahābhārata, Indo-European stock, they are also Hindus, the so-called Hindus, followers of Vedic principles. Yes. Gradually, they deviated. Just like recently there is division of Pakistan and India. Twenty years before, this Pakistan was part of India. Now, these Muhammadans, they did not come from outside. They changed their faith from Hindus to Muhammadans. Now they divided their property. Similarly, actually the whole planet was called Bhārata-varṣa. Gradually, people deviated from Vedic principles or imitated something else and they became different.
Reference (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1968 Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: And so far the article Hayagrīva written, it is very nice. It should be published. Yes. I have seen it.
Satsvarūpa: That means that we can make reference to the gopīs.
Prabhupāda: Oh, it is done. Gopīs are boycotted.
Satsvarūpa: No, gopīs are not boycotted.
Prabhupāda: The policy should be that the people may not understand gopīs like ordinary girls or like that. You should be careful to present the gopīs. It does not mean that "We shall not utter even the name of gopīs. We have taken vow to boycott the gopīs." No. They are our worshipable devotees. How we can avoid them?
Prabhupāda: No, no. You limit to these three. That will do.
Hayagrīva: Limit to those three.
Prabhupāda: Or Viṣṇu. Yes. Viṣṇu.
Hayagrīva: What about avatāras, in reference to Christ or Buddha?
Prabhupāda: Buddha is capital used. Jesus Christ is capital used.
Satsvarūpa: Yes. But he... Like "He." He means Buddha, "Who."
Hayagrīva: No, "He."
Prabhupāda: No. That you can use...
1971 Conversations and Morning Walks
Revatīnandana: Beethoven's symphony. He means classical Western music. They make some music.
Prabhupāda: But if it is glorification of God, we can hear. There is no objection.
Revatīnandana: But there may be no reference to God in it.
Prabhupāda: No, then we don't hear. We reject.
Sister Mary: Inspired by God, given by God.
Prabhupāda: Given by God is everything. That is another thing. Just like everything is government property. But do you like to go to the prisonhouse? We say everything belongs to government. We are not so liberal, that "Because everything belongs to government, therefore I shall go to the prisonhouse."
Guest (2): I'm sorry, I didn't get that.
Prabhupāda: Boston. Also in Buffalo.
Mālatī: Buffalo, yes.
Śyāmasundara: He was speaking in reference to the Pope. The Pope didn't acknowledge your letter to him.
Dr. Singh: Did he or...
Śyāmasundara: Did not.
Dr. Singh: His loss. When we have Kṛṣṇa, who needs the Pope? (laughs)
Prabhupāda: I may not think... (indistinct) He is the head of a very great religion, so I want (indistinct) cooperation, I offered my cooperation (indistinct). So I have to struggle with so many difficulties, (indistinct) and everything, handicap.
Prabhupāda: Your conclusion was wrong. Just like Vivekananda and many others, now present, presently there is one Karpatri. Vivekananda was actually rascal. He, he had no knowledge. But the Karpatri is actually very learned man. He has studied all the Vedas, great Sanskrit scholar, but still, because he did not worship the lotus feet of the Lord, he is also proving rascal. He is now in politics. He has got a political party, Rama-Rajya Party, and nobody cares for him. He is insulted so many place, but still, but he's so learned, if, if anyone, anybody goes and reads scriptures and Vedas, he can give very good reference and very nicely explain, but the conclusion is dull. Conclusion is dull means again he has come to this philanthropy work. So therefore Bhāgavata says, āruhya kṛcchreṇa: "Although they have undergone great austerities, penances," āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam (SB 10.2.32), "realized to some extent the Supreme Absolute Truth," but patanty adhaḥ, "falls down."
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: That will be danger. But so far as the Gītā Ācārya's teachings, He is a different person. There's no reference to early life in Vyāsa's Bhagavad-gītā. The Bhagavad-gītā is simply about an ācārya. Occasionally He says "I am Īśvara," but He's an ācārya primarily. I need not..., I am not trying to sermonize to you. I'm trying to explain what I feel.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest: Very difficult doctrine of detachment. The Gītā Ācārya says sannyāsa is difficult, and you are likely to become a hypocrite if you, if you...
Prabhupāda: Mithyācāraḥ sa ucyate.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: How are the references made?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: What references are given, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: You will find all this in the Caitanya-caritāmṛta, references from Upaniṣads, from Bhāgavata. Caitanya Mahāprabhu never said that I am Kṛṣṇa. But the devotees, you know Sanātana Gosvāmī, corroborated. You know that? You have read that?
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Yes, I have.
Prabhupāda: Wife. Jāhnavā-devī. She was controlling the whole Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava community.
Ātreya Ṛṣi: Do you have references about that in any of your books, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: I don't think. But there are many ācāryas. Maybe somewhere I might have mentioned. It is not that woman cannot be ācārya. Generally, they do not become. In very special case. But Jāhnavā-devī was accepted as, but she did not declare.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: That's it. (Hindi) ...bogus, bogus. This is statement of Kṛṣṇa. Can you give us the statement of Kṛṣṇa? I'll accept some foolish statement. So Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He's also giving reference to the śāstra, yaḥ śāstra. He can say anything, everything, He's God Himself, still He gives reference to the śāstra. So anyone who's speaking against the injunction of the śāstra, (indistinct). There is another verse, find out, tasmād śāstra pramāṇaṁ te, tasmād, (indistinct).
Devotee: Tasmād.
Prabhupāda: Śāstra. (pause) Tasmād śāstra...
Devotee: I see, tasmād sarveṣu kāleṣu. (indistinct)
Pañcadraviḍa: I heard something in reference to that. You wrote one of the devotees in Calcutta. You wrote... He came to Bombay, Bhavānanda, and he said, and he had signed a letter something like, "I pray that I may be engaged in the service of my Guru Mahārāja." And you wrote back: "We are personalists to the letter, so that when we say Guru Mahārāja we always say name, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda, or Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī. We don't just leave it in, as vague Guru Mahārāja. So we were singing, jaya prabhupāda jaya gurudeva, and he was saying, "Well that is impersonalist."
Acyutānanda: Also he says "Nitāi-gaura haribol! That is also, that's māyā." So, what is that?
Pañcadraviḍa: And so he was saying that all these bhajanas, they are, they are not bonafide, because they are, have...
Prabhupāda: He said: "Gaura haribol! is not bona fide?" He said, bona fide?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Do we have anything, Śrīla Prabhupāda, in the reference, saying that all the living entities are already there?
Prabhupāda: Yes, that jīva-jātiṣu.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, and that implies?
Prabhupāda: Jīva-jāti, different grades of jīva. Jāti, you know jāti?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like there are different nations. They are already existing. So jāti means that. Jāti means born of a particular species. That is jāti. Jīva-jātiṣu. Ṣu, plural number. So many jīva-jātiṣu. He's simply Bhramadbhiḥ. Just like I am traveling, sometimes America, some Australia, sometimes... But they are already there. I am going sometimes in America, sometimes Australia, sometimes Africa, but they are already there. I am the man; I am traveling. Not that because I have to come to America, I create America. This is nonsense. And there are many countries I have not gone there. Does it mean that they are not existing? They have no even human reason, these rascal scientists. The common sense reason. And Bhagavad-gītā clearly says they are already existing.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You have to learn it. In the conditioned state we act according to "my whims." In the liberated state we act according to Kṛṣṇa's whims. That's all. That is the difference. That is the difference. Just see, Bhagavad-gītā. Arjuna wanted to act according to his whims, "Oh, He is going now fight with my grandfather, with my teacher." These are the problems. Kṛṣṇa... "No, I cannot fight." And then at last he agreed to act according to the whims of Kṛṣṇa: "Yes, kariṣye vacanaṁ tava. Naṣṭo mohaḥ smṛtir labdhā (BG 18.73)." Find out this verse. Naṣṭo mohaḥ. Whatever we are speaking, there is reference in the Bhagavad-gītā. We don't speak anything according to our whims. No.
Prabhupāda: The Bhagavad-gītā?
David Lawrence: Oh, yes. I've gone back over it about forty times now already. So I think I'm beginning to get hold of it. And then there would be lastly a reference section which would include all addresses that they would find useful, a glossary of the terms used, and an index, etc.
Prabhupāda: Very good. This...
David Lawrence: That...
Prabhupāda: ...synopsis is very nice.
David Lawrence: You like the idea, do you?
Prabhupāda: Oh yes, very nice.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Lower than śūdra. Why śūdra? Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ (SB 2.4.18). They become purified if they accept the real representative of Kṛṣṇa. Prabhaviṣṇave namaḥ. Yad-apāśrayāśrayāḥ. Everything is there in the śāstras. If you take advantage of the benefit of the śāstras, everything can be remodeled, everything can be good. There is no cause for disappointment. But unfortunately they'll not agree. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya. Na siddhiṁ sa avāpnoti. One who is acting whimsically, without any reference of the authoritative śāstra, he'll never get success, na siddhim avāpnoti. Na sukham: neither happiness. And what to speak of going to the spiritual world? It is impossible. So we have to take the advantage of the instruction in the śāstra. Now Kṛṣṇa is accepted the supreme authority by all the ācāryas. The molder of destiny of India's culture, all the ācāryas. Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, Nimbārka, Lord Caitanya...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). You can...
Śrutakīrti: Kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ?
Prabhupāda: Oh.
Yogeśvara: (in French:) He's looking for a specific reference in that book which explains the beginning of our political program.
David Lawrence: Yes, you see they say that the, because the Āryans came from or passed through at least the Middle East, that in fact some of the older parts of the Old Testament predate, so they say, and indeed some of the Egyptian higher, some of the better Egyptian stuff...
Prabhupāda: So one should transcend these, what is called, historical references. They calculate in Darwin's theory.
David Lawrence: Darwin's theory's out now isn't it? (laughs) It's sort of old fashioned now. They dispense with these theories as quickly as most people do their newspaper each day.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
David Lawrence: Yes, I must admit I was amazed at that reference, reading that yesterday.
Prabhupāda: That frog philosophy is going on. Dr. Frog. He's simply calculating the well, that's all. How there can be Atlantic Ocean? That is frog philosophy. You know frog philosophy? Yes?
David Lawrence: Yes.
Prabhupāda: You know? I don't think you know. Who can explain what is that frog philosophy?
Prabhupāda: Bhāgavata was written five thousand years ago.
David Lawrence: Yes, very, very ancient. Is it to be taken, the references say to Pūtanā, is this to be taken...
Prabhupāda: It is also fact.
David Lawrence: ...physically or spiritually as a demonic power or what?
Prabhupāda: No, no, which one?
David Lawrence: Where, is it the demoness Pūtanā takes Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa sucks her breast?
Śyāmasundara: Should it be taken literally or allegorically?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
David Lawrence: I mean, one or two of the stories there's a reference to Kṛṣṇa and the unmarried gopīs, saying that He treated them like dolls yet they were well pleased with Him. Now, would it be right to say that the main point of that story, rather than...
Prabhupāda: Dolls?
David Lawrence: Yes, it says He treated them rather like dolls. It's your own translation on that one. But they were well pleased with Him. Is the point of the story...
Prabhupāda: Yes, because they are not God conscious, they are thinking like that. Now, suppose in the hospital, there are many patients. They are starving, many patients in the hospital. Do you know that or not? So why don't you give them food? They are starving. Why? Why don't you go to the hospital and you'll find hundreds of patients, they are starving... So similarly, why you are bothering? You are not bothering the hospital because you know that is right, they are starving. That is the physician's prescription. They must starve. So if you know God, then you will understand that you cannot help anyone. They are put into the starving condition under certain condition. So you cannot help them. You are simply thinking that "I will help." There are hundreds and thousands, millions of people starving. What you can do? Even if you try to give some something. Just like this Vivekananda philosophy, daridra-nārāyaṇa-sevā, to serve the poor Nārāyaṇa. Nārāyaṇa has become poor. These are manufactured things. This is not with reference to the authorized śāstras or knowledge.
Prabhupāda: That is my..., that this experience... You have got some experience, I have got some experience and another has experience. But so far you are talking of Bhagavad-gītā... Because you say that Aurobindo has written on the Bhagavad-gītā. The Bhagavad-gītā says, in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, Kṛṣṇa says:
- mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat
- kiñcid asti dhanañjaya
- mayi sarvam idaṁ protaṁ
- sūtre maṇi-gaṇā iva
- (BG 7.7)
Like that. He says that mattaḥ parataram: "There is no more superior, supramental or Supreme Personality..." As you say supramental, it is with reference to a person. Just like Aurobindo, supramental. That means it is with reference to the Aurobindo person. Is it not? Any mental. As you say, "mental," it is with reference to a person.
Prabhupāda: They are trying.
Hṛdayānanda: They are like Jarāsandha. They come back every day on your walk.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we have any specific reference for acintya in the Vedic reference?
Prabhupāda: Acintya, acintya, yes, acintya. Acintya potency, even you have got acintya potency. That I have already explained. Because we are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, therefore there is pinch of acintya, inconceivable potency, in us also. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma... (CC Adi 17.21).
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Do we have any specific reference?
Karandhara: That's what they argue about, write books on. Mostly they make vague references and emotional pleas for goodness and honesty.
Prabhupāda: No, what is that honesty and what is that goodness? They must give some definition.
Prajāpati: You've summed it up very nicely, Śrīla Prabhupāda, when you call them just jugglers of words.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Where is scientist? Svarūpa Dāmodara?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Here Śrīla Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: So, what is the standard of goodness according to your scientific view?
Prabhupāda: Why? If they are actually theologians, why they should not hear? Jesus Christ says that he's the son of God. But why not of the father. And what is this?
Karandhara: They make reference to one... He supposedly said that he was the only way, that no man could come to God the father except through Jesus.
Prabhupāda: Yes, so we accept the only way. Take Bible, and we shall prove there is Kṛṣṇa. Take Bible, yes.
Prajāpati: But they will quote a reference in the Bible that says, "No other book."
Prabhupāda: No, no, no, don't accept no other book. Take Bible, and we shall prove there is Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: But tradition, what is that tradition? Tradition is here, in the proof. Cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). The reference is given to the quality, guṇa, and karma, and action. How you can simply say that because I'm born in such and such family, therefore I have also the same thing. Because my father was high-court judge, therefore I am high-court judge. Is that very good logic? How you became superior? You have to prove your superiority by your qualification and actual work. This is very nice. The world is accepting like that. Somebody's coming to you to accept some scientific instruction. He accepts you're superior in scientific knowledge, not for your birth, but for your quality and work. That is fact.
Prabhupāda: They will change so many times, because they're rascals. They have no standard program. Therefore Rūpa Gosvāmī has given his verdict in Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu,
- śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi-
- pañcarātra-vidhiṁ vinā
- aikāntikī harer bhaktir
- utpātāyaiva kalpate
- (Brs. 1.2.101)
Any kind of spiritual advancement without reference to the Vedas, Purāṇas, and śāstra, it means simply disturbance. Utpātāyaiva kalpate.
Hṛdayānanda: You quoted that to Professor Stahl.
Prabhupāda: Eh? Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, what do you think about the so-called primordial flux?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prabhupāda: Yes. One who knows that these material things, it has got a beginning and it has got an end... In every day we see that. Even with our body we see that it has a beginning and it has an end. I have seen my father was born and he died. So I am also born; I'll also die. My son is also born; my son will die. This is real experience. But if somebody says that "I shall not die. We are trying to become immortal," so that is foolishness. That is foolishness. By experience from time immemorial, historical reference, there is no such thing as immortality. But if somebody says, "By chemical evolution we shall become immortal..." Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness proposition is that human life is meant for factual knowledge or ultimate knowledge. But these rascals are checking that progress. That means the prerogative of human life is being denied to the human society.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: No, they were sleeping. (laughter) That is western. Here you will find even the old man rises early in the morning. Yes, take bath. Without any reference to Hare Kṛṣṇa. They chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. In the village, they take bath early in the morning. That is very healthy. (break) ...I have generally... (indistinct) (heavy wind noise)
Satsvarūpa: Mixed with moisture?
Prabhupāda: That I do not know. The scientists say that it is a blazing fire, sun planet. Fire is generally red color with little yellow. Why it is white? We have no experience of fire, white. So how do they say it is fire? That is my question. (break) ...tell me what blue I have seen. Red I have seen. Where is white?
Prabhupāda: Many thousands many lakhs. And this is one point... And we prove from śāstric evidences, as it is stated that, in the Bhagavad-gītā, that catur-vidhā bhajante māṁ sukṛtino 'rjuna. Bhajana, bhajante, this bhajana word is used with reference to the very pious men, sukṛtinaḥ. And just opposite number is duṣkṛtinaḥ, miscreants. So bhajana is for the most pious man, recommended in the Bhagavad-gītā, and Bhagavad-gītā is held up in so great estimation all over the world, and this man has accused bhajana as nuisance? So how much rascal and ignorant person he is. And he is one of the important position. This is government. The bhajana is described in the Vedic śāstra as,... It is a dealing of the most pious men. And he's talking it as nuisance. So far kīrtana, bhajana-kīrtana, kīrtana is concerned, Kṛṣṇa has said, satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ (BG 9.14). These are the symptoms of mahātmās.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Although He is one, He can manifest. He is exiting, not manifest. He is existing in aneka. And what is that aneka? Aneka means expansion of svāṁśa... That is... Therefore we require reference from many śāstras. In the Varaha Purāṇa this aneka explained—svāṁśa and vibhinnāṁśa. Svāṁśa, expansion of the Viṣṇu-tattva. Viṣṇu-tattva. Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā niyamena tiṣṭhan (Bs. 5.39). He has expanded Himself in so many incarnations, rāmādi, like Rāma, not this loafer class. Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā niyamena tiṣṭhan (Bs. 5.39). This is aneka. Another aneka-mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhuta (BG 15.7). They are also aneka. Anantāya kalpate. So all the Viṣṇu forms and all the living entity forms, altogether, he was able to see in the body of Kṛṣṇa. That is aneka. Yes, go on.
Prabhupāda: No, that is also not mentioned. Simply Sambal. And Bhāgavata was written five thousand years ago, and there is also mention of Lord Buddha's name. Kikaṭeṣu bhaviṣyati. Bhaviṣyati. This word is used, "in future." So this is śāstra, that even the incarnation will come four lakhs of years after or 2,500 years after, still, there is mention. His feature, his work—everything is there. Why should we accept a false imitation unless it is corroborated by the śāstra? You cannot say everyone is realized soul because he recommends something. No. We have to corroborate. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is the defect of our understanding, that we accept everyone as realized soul. How he is realized soul? If he is speaking something wrong, how he is realized soul? Against the śāstra. That is not realized soul. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ, na siddhim avāpnoti (BG 16.23). Śāstra reference must be there.
Prabhupāda: "My dear boys, this human form of life is not meant for working hard like cats and dogs for sense gratification." Ultimate end is sense gratification, satisfying the senses. This is the business of the cats and hogs, or dogs and hogs. The hog is whole day working to find out stool: "Where is stool? Where is stool?" And as soon as he gets some stool, little strength, immediately sex life, without any discrimination whether she is mother or sister or daughter. This kind of life is described in the śāstras as hog civilization. So at the present moment, without any reference to God consciousness, people are being taught to satisfy the senses, work very hard, and ruin the chance of human life.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Or Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is great. So I am talking of what Kṛṣṇa has said. Therefore I am great, I am knowing everything. It is not that I know everything. I do not know anything, but I, I am surrendered to a person who knows everything. Therefore I know everything. I take my knowledge from Him. So you should think how much knowledge you have assimilated. The knowledge is there, guru-kṛṣṇa. Guru is there. Kṛṣṇa is there. So we have to take advantage of guru and Kṛṣṇa, sad-dharma-pṛcchā, ask him, and become man of knowledge. Then you can say. If you simply think that "I have my guru, and there is Kṛṣṇa. Now I am perfect," no. You should ask and know. You must be man of knowledge. Then you can say, "Yes, I know everything." Dīkṣā. Dīkṣā, initiation, dīkṣā, this Sanskrit word, dīkṣā, means divya-jñānaṁ kṣipayati. To ask from spiritual master with service and surrender the transcendental knowledge. The more you ask, you become a man of knowledge. Then you can challenge, "Yes, I know everything." Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare... Actually, we know everything. Just like when I speak, I immediately ask reference from Bhagavad-gītā, and we stop the man's argument. So if you become well-conversed with the whole Bhagavad-gītā, then you have full knowledge.
Bhagavān: Prabhupāda has not just translated. He's given commentary, purport.
Prabhupāda: Yes, you can show the nature, translation, word-meaning. (French) Then I combine with reference to the modern society, how they can be applicable to the modern life. (French)
Yogeśvara: Have we interested any of the leading French citizens in our movement?
Prabhupāda: That I do not know, but many French men came to see me, and...
Yogeśvara: Last year, at Hotel De Ville.
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. He has given nice reference. A devotee, although sees God in His lion feature, and very ferocious, he knows He is God. "He's my Lord." But this so-called advancement of material civilization is the greatest enemy. That is not... Material civilization is very, very backward position. Māyā-mohita. He'll be captivated by the so-called stones and bricks, and he'll forget God. That is the disease of the western world. They are very much fond of these stones and bricks, and therefore they have no knowledge about God. This electricity, the electrons, the radio, this, everything machine and stones. They have got, forgotten God. Jaḍa-vidyā jato māyāra vaibhava. The more you materially advance, you forget God. So human life is meant for reviving our relationship with God, but if you forget God, then what kind of civilization it is? You are forgetting your real business.
Prabhupāda: Who is that man? (French)
Jyotirmayī: He said all the social forces in India wants to keep their own privileges.
Prabhupāda: So? The communist does not? (French)
Jyotirmayī: He said that in Marxism there is no religious references.
Prabhupāda: But the, what is called, terrorism facility, there is. There is no religious sentiment, but there is terrorism sentiment. Some sentiment is there. (French)
Jyotirmayī: He said that yesterday in Assam seven student have been killed, but is it the communists who killed them?
Prabhupāda: Eh?
Prabhupāda: There is no such...
Yogeśvara: Now, one thing is that we accept Buddha as incarnation of Kṛṣṇa on reference from Vedas, but Buddha denied the value of the Vedas.
Prabhupāda: That is... When we pray, offer pray, it is stated that that is his, one of the qualifications. Sada... Nindasi. Nindasi yajña-vidher. The animal sacrifice is recommended... Some of the sacrifices or all of them... So that animal sacrifice was not meant for eating. Just to give them new, rejuvenated life by the Vedic mantras, to test that whether Vedic mantras are being chanted properly. And because at the Kali-yuga there is no such expert brāhmaṇa, all sacrifices are forbidden. So later on, as they deteriorated, they began to offer sacrifices, and if anyone wants to stop it, they will say, "Oh, it is recommended in the Vedas." Just like these rascals, Christian: "Oh, Christ ate fish.
Haṁsadūta: There are so many places. At one point he says, "I have kept them in your name. Thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain." So many references to the name.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Professor Durckheim: The Jews have the Jehova, Jehova name, Jehova, but they don't chant.
Prabhupāda: No? They are not following.
Professor Durckheim: Jehova. How beautiful it is here.
Prabhupāda: Yes, very nice. (pause) Bhāgavata, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is presented in such a nice way that go on reading, reading there are eighteen thousand verses, and in each verse you will find new knowledge about God, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And if you study one verse, it will take at least one month.
Prabhupāda: You find out this verse of Bhagavad-gītā.
Reverend Powell: There was a reference to something you said about plants having a feeling. Some years ago I carried out an experiment at the request of one of our magazines in praying for plants and seeds growing and so on, and there seemed to be a relationship between these prayers for the plants and the opposite, in a negative way, against the plants. And I didn't have an opportunity to carry it out too far, much, but in two experiments, there was apparently a clear indication that the plants responded to prayer. And the peas and the beans in particular, (laughs) there was a significant, a very significant increase in the plants that were...
Prabhupāda: Yes, for people coming from England to Australia, they passed through Calcutta or Bombay, like that.
Reverend Powell: That's right. Yes. We came by air. Was there some reference?
Satsvarūpa: Yes.
- cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ
- guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ
- tasya kartāram api māṁ
- viddhy akartāram avyayam
- (BG 4.13)
"Translation: According to the three modes of material nature and the work ascribed to them, the four divisions of human society were created by Me, and although I am the creator of this system, you should know that I am yet the non-doer, being unchangeable."
Prabhupāda: Read the purport.
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. It is also intoxication.
Guest (3): Your Divine Grace, in a lot of scriptures I read there is a lot of references to breath and the breath as being the...
Prabhupāda: Breathing.
Guest (3): Breathing...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Guest (3): ...it's a source of God. And there are some yogas which concentrate on the breath.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes, nitya, nitya. Nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). Why don't you see these references? It is never created. It is ever-existing, eternal. Only it appears to be temporary on account of accepting different material bodies. Therefore, paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). One who knows, he knows that he has changed his body, the same person. Just like father, mother knows. When a son becomes very stout and strong, the mother sees that same child. Others may be bewildered. One who has seen the child very long ago, now he has become robust build. He cannot say. And the mother says, "He is my child, that child." So paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18).
Pañcadraviḍa: I met one... I was traveling about three months ago in India. I met one Christian on the train. So we began to discuss the śāstra. So I mentioned some of the arguments in reference to the Bible, that Christ was speaking...
Prabhupāda: (aside:) No, no. Where that covering? Where is it?
Pañcadraviḍa: I said that Christ was speaking basically to an uneducated public, the fishermen, etc... So then this man, he stopped me. He said, "That's all right. But," he said, "You're..."
Prabhupāda: Who? Who? Who said?
Pañcadraviḍa: I was discussing with one Christian in India. So I attacked... Politely I attacked his scriptural reference, the Bible. I was saying that it was not meant that an educated community. So then he stopped me. He said, "That's all right. You can speak about fishermen. But," he said, "the prime exponent of Christianity was Paul. And Paul was previously Saul. He was not a fisherman. And he was traveling to a town on a particular... Damascus. And there he received direct revelation from God." And he said, "Then this one man, single-handedly, he converted most of the known world to Christianity."
Prabhupāda: That means he got direct revelation from God.
Pañcadraviḍa: Yes.
Ravīndra-svarūpa: Because they believe they can use Jesus like a doormat to clean their sinful activities of themselves.
Prabhupāda: Now, one thing is that why theology should be in reference with Bible? If it is a science, then why should it refer only to the Bible?
Prajāpati: Yes. The biggest school of theology, Harvard School of Theology... The study of the Bible is there, but only on the side. Instead, they study Freud, Karl Marx, everybody else...
Acyutānanda: Well, they should study Gītā.
Prajāpati: Yes, that's our point. How to get them to realize that? That's a question.
Acyutānanda: So we'll ask them, "We have a most scientific and detailed description of the self and God and the means to join to Him. That cannot be avoided in your study. And we claim the highest standard of renunciation, and worship and godly society."
Prajāpati: And their answer...
Acyutānanda: "You can't avoid us."
Prabhupāda: Just see.
Mahāṁsa: That was the reference. He was saying, "Now from today onwards, I will start on this chapter and we will go on to these ślokas." He was referring to these ślokas.
Prabhupāda: Now Kṛṣṇa has written Bhagavad-gītā, not written, has spoken Bhagavad-gītā, and He is speaking to me and I have to judge which is suitable? This is, is that my position?
Guest: Perhaps what happens here...
Prabhupāda: No perhaps. He says that "What is suitable, we accept. And not suitable reject." Now who will judge which is suitable and which is not suitable? That is the question.
Prabhupāda: This kind of understanding at the present time, at the present time... (Hindi) So we give reference, that "Present time, everyone is fallen." But truth is always the same, not at present time. So the real truth is that ideal man of character there must be. Because at the present moment there is no character, there is no moral education, therefore we have to adapt according to them, no. The pukka moralist, he must be moralist. It doesn't matter that "People at the present time, they do all immoral activities; therefore we have to adjust." No. Strictly one should be moralist. There is no question of present time or past time. That should be real point of view. Then?
Prabhupāda: So, some of the big men, past politician like Nandaji, they are also thinking very nicely. Now it is the time to coordinate all these thinkers on the basis of Bhagavad-gītā as we are pushing on this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. That should be seriously taken. And another difficulty is that without any reference to the śāstra there are so many spiritual propagandist. That is not very good. That is not very good, not good at all. No question of very good. They are more or less atheist. They will not take, accept the instruction of the Bhagavad-gītā. They'll manufacture their own way. That will not help us. You must take the standard things. Then it will be successful. In my, this propaganda, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, I am very much satisfied that I did not adulterate any instruction of the śāstra. And it is becoming very effective. And in the Bhagavad-gītā also it is stated, yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ (BG 16.23). Find out this verse. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya.
Prabhupāda: Good society. The group... We gave reference from Bhagavad-gītā, saṅgāt sañjāyate kāmaḥ. Association is required. Otherwise why we are opening so many centers? Just to give them the facility of association. These men are big rascals. The world is full of rascals, and the so-called leaders, they are big rascals, that's all. They cannot make any solution. Simply take salary. Śva-viḍ-varāhoṣṭra-kharaiḥ saṁstutaḥ puruṣaḥ paśuḥ (SB 2.3.19). They are big rascals, and the small rascals accept them as leader. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Tapaḥ. Tapaḥ, tapasya, austerity. Austerity. Then you have to consult what is the austerity? The austerity is, beginning of austerity is the sex control. That is austerity, brahmacarya. Tapasā brahmacaryeṇa (SB 6.1.13). And that brahmacarya you can observe by following certain rules and regulations, Just like these people are following. In this way everything is there, clear. There is no interpretation. You cannot interpret the word water. Everyone knows what is water means. Where is the question of interpreting? Therefore sometimes reference to the teacher is necessary. Otherwise every word is clear. There is no question of interpretation. Now they are irrelevantly interpreting the first verse of Bhagavad-gītā. Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre (BG 1.1). So they are interpreting Kurukṣetra means this body. And where is the chance of such interpretation? Kurukṣetra, the land, is still there. Just before coming here I went to Kurukṣetra. So why you should interpret, "Kurukṣetra means this body"?
Prabhupāda: ...you will get many information. He has very scholarly presented. He has made references from so many books.
Jayatīrtha: He has been running various psychological tests on the devotees, Dr. Gerson has been using psychological tests...
Prabhupāda: What is this psychological test?
Jayatīrtha: You can explain.
Dr. Gerson: Well, there are a variety of tests, and they have to do with the kind of personality and intelligence and creativity that people in general have, and I'm finding...
Prabhupāda: No other yoga system.
Satsvarūpa: World's largest. (break) ...librarians, they said, "Well, if someone comes in and asks you for a reference book on yoga and meditation, what reference books do you have?" And they admit that there are no encyclopedias or reference books on Indian philosophy. So they're describing that... our men are describing that this Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is an encyclopedia of all Indian philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Nigama-kalpa-taror galitaṁ phalam idam (SB 1.1.3). The essence of all Vedic knowledge. (break)
Prabhupāda: No, it is very nice, but at the present moment in the name of meditation, simply cheating and bluffing going on. They do not know what is the subject matter of meditation. Besides that, in this age, mind is so agitated that you cannot concentrate. I have seen the so-called meditation. They are regularly sleeping and snoring. They do not know. Yes. This is going on. So unfortunately, in the name of God consciousness or this self-realization, so many not standardized methods are being presented by the so-called bluffers without any reference to the authoritative books and knowledge, Vedic knowledge. It is another type of exploitation.
Faill: Well, I think I have got quite a lot down now. I'll have to go and work it out.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Faill: I'll look up some reference books on the history of the movement and that sort of thing.
Prabhupāda: History, it is not a new movement. You have seen this book. You read that book thoroughly. You will get full knowledge. This movement is very, very old and standard. It is never changed. As soon as you change it, then the potency of the movement is lost.
Faill: Sorry, what was that?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: All of our different books, just offhand. These are some of the colleges as of several months ago who placed standing orders for our books. Now, the professors, as we go from college to college in America, in the universities, they are using our books as textbooks, standard textbooks. They are seeing that the cost of the book is not the real criterion. The criterion is the quality of the teaching. Someone may be attracted by the cover... (break) ...transliteration is pronounced, different words, glossary for words which may not be so well understood by the neophyte, references. And for the different pictures, plate numbers and explanation. It's a complete edition. Nothing has ever been seen like this in the Western world. So there's great authority behind it.
Prof. Olivier: Yeah. This... Our university has almost an obligation to make a study in depth of all of these points.
Prabhupāda: And after studying Bhagavad-gītā thoroughly, then begins further, higher study-Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the same principles. Show.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Nectar of Devotion and the Śrī Īśopaniṣad. These books are actually being used in undergraduate courses. These are some of the recommendations, see, offered as an undergraduate course. Mostly... This book is very, very interesting, this, "the complete science of bhakti-yoga." This explains scientifically the science of devotional service to God. That devotional service which is not practiced with reference to the Vedic literatures is simply a disturbance, just as if some chemist walked into an English laboratory or some foreign language laboratory and tried to do something, and he had no knowledge. So the same way, we should try to understand the science of devotional service from the authorities, so that it's not just...it doesn't become simply a disturbance in society. People lose faith in God that way. Śrī Īśopaniṣad also has the same format once again.
Dr. Patel: You see, anything which is read out of context is no reading. You must read it reference to context. If you read some nonsense somebody must have spoken or written he's not all what he has written or spoken. So if Yaśomatīnandana reads that and Prabhupādajī talks something about the spirituality, no this moment... Because time is short and heart is long, and our heart is beating like muffled drums, so let us fulfill ourself before we die.
Prabhupāda: No, you have got your injection. (laughter)
Dr. Patel: That is not for me. I give only... (laughs) His wife was brought yesterday to me, Yaśodānandana, and she told me that she was operated in the stomach for some growth. "What sort of growth was that? Was it malignant?" And she's suffering. Why don't you send her back or get the reports from the American hospital, what operation was performed on her, and we'll get out? Or she'll suffer all the time. That is the story of injection. Now let us talk. Until you realize God, then you are spirit. Up to then, you are always...
Prabhupāda: "I am Indian." "I am American."
Prabhupāda: Gossiping, that's all. And keeping the files thrown away. If you want some reference, it will take three months.
Tejās: That one devotee who was given brāhmaṇa initiation, he was working in the government. So previously he would just go in the morning, and sometimes he wouldn't even go. His section officer would go... One of them would go and punch in and the rest of the day... They have no work even. And then in the evening one has to cover the punch out. That's the only thing.
Harikeśa: In the communistic system everybody works very hard.
Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: That's what they claim, but everything belongs to the state. Why should they work hard?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Keśavalāl Trivedi: "I am aṁśa but not Paramāṁśa."
Prabhupāda: That is explained in other.... You have to take reference. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ (Bs. 5.1). I am also īśvaraḥ. That I explained so many times. But that does not mean I am paramesvara. Paramesvara is Kṛṣṇa. What is this building? Hm?
Acyutānanda: This is more of that Christian...
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Acyutānanda: Same seal as the Christian...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What about that?
Acyutānanda: This is a mosque.
Yaśodānandana: ...called Ahobilam. Caitanya Mahāprabhu also went there. And the paṇḍitas there, they have reference from the Brahmāṇḍa Purāṇa.... (break) ...was killed by Lord Nṛsiṁha. There is the room, the palace and everything.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (break) Chipped rice?
Mahāmṣa: No, that was sugar.
Prabhupāda: Sugar? Salt.
Harikeśa: That's the way their salt is here.
Acyutānanda: In blocks?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Rock salt.
Prabhupāda: Not rock salt. Sea salt.
Prabhupāda: Dictionary is not the standard. The standard is the book itself. That is our preaching. You may bring some dictionary made by some fools. No. We have to take reference. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā As It Is.
Acyutānanda: Well, even Jesus Christ just said, "I am for all," but there is Christianity.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is a fact. Either God or God's representative, He is for everyone. Suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām (BG 5.29). That is the definition of sādhu. Titikṣavaḥ karunikaḥ suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām (SB 3.25.21). A saintly person..., as God is for everyone, a saintly person is for everyone. Why he should be for Hindu or Muslim or Christian? That is the definition of saintly person. Suhrdaḥ. Suhṛdaḥ means well-wisher. So either Christ or any Vaiṣṇava, he is well-wisher for everyone. (break) ...suhṛdaḥ sarva-bhūtānām. We are preaching all over the world and they are appreciating.
Prabhupāda: But there is no remnants; we sell everything. Generally when there is some remaining copies, the publisher bound it up for future sale, reference. (break) Vedānta-sūtra, that is the topmost philosophy. So that first verse, athāto brahma jijñāsā. In this human form of life there is no other business—simply to inquire about Brahman. This is the fact. If anyone wants to fulfill the human form of life as distinguished from animal life, this is the only business, brahma-jijñāsā. And the whole civilization is on this basis. Therefore first brahmacārī, how to understand Brahman. So the children of human society is trained up, same principle, how to understand Brahman. So yesterday with that gentleman I told, "Where you got the sand?" Our beginning talk was that.
Prabhupāda: So whatever thoughts are coming, you note it. Keep it. We shall utilize it with reference, with reference to the śāstra.
Gurudāsa: Jaya. (break)
Jayapatākā: This special exhibition building?
Prabhupāda: Bhāgavata. Take every page of Bhāgavata. And I think every year there should be change.
Haṁsadūta: New exhibit.
Prabhupāda: New exhibit.
Yaśodānandana: Prabhupāda, there has been discussion amongst many of the members of the press and the Sanskrit editors regarding the actual place of Nṛsiṁha's pastimes. So I told them that on the occasion of our travel to South India we visited this place Ahobilam, and the paṇḍitas, they have scriptural reference from the Brahmāṇḍa Purāṇa and the Nṛsiṁha Purāṇa that the place is actually mentioned there, and it has been recognized by Rāmānujācārya and many of the great Ālwār saints. And yourself have already told me twice personally that this was the actual place where it happened. And on top of the mountain there, there is the pillar, iron pillar, which is the symbol of the spot where Lord Nṛsiṁha killed Hiraṇyakaśipu. So for the benefit of all of these devotees, they were just requesting your actual confirmation.
Prabhupāda: Confirmation or no confirmation, Nṛsiṁha-deva is our worshipable Deity, that's all. Why you are bothering where He killed Hiraṇyakaśipu? You worship Him, that's all.
Prabhupāda: Allow some Indian dress may come in.
Nalinīkaṇṭha: "Prahlāda Mahārāja continued: My dear friends born of demoniac families, the happiness perceived with reference to the sense objects..."
Prabhupāda: He is addressing his friends, "born of demoniac families, my dear friends." (laughs) Give him one chair, Dr. Wolfe. Yes, that's nice. He used to address his father also as "the best of the demons." Once his father asked him, "My dear son, what nice lesson you have learned in the school? Please tell me." So he addressed his father, asura-vārya, "the best of the asuras."
Prabhupāda: Asad-grahāt. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyam asad-grahāt. Asat means that does not exist, "not eternal," it is just opposite. Eternal is called sat, om tat sat, and asat means just the opposite. So here in this material world everything is asat. Even this body is asat; it will not exist. And what to speak of other things with reference to the body. Everything is asat. Anything material is asat; it will not stay, either these trees or this land or this world or this country or this, anything, asat. So asad-grahāt, on account of accepting things which are asat, not permanent, they are always full of anxiety. Just see how nicely explained, why one is full of anxiety. The reason is, he has accepted something which will not stay, endure, and he has accepted: "This is all in all. My country is all in all. My family is all in all. This body, all in all." But it will not stay. That's a practical fact. But they are sticking to these things. Deha-pātra-kalatrādiṣu ātma-sainyeṣu asatsu api. There is another verse where this word is used, asat. Everyone is thinking, "I am secure. I am born in a very good nation, state. My body is very strong.
Nalinīkaṇṭha: "The happiness perceived with reference to the sense objects by contact with the body can be obtained in any form of life, according to one's past fruitive activities. Such happiness is automatically obtained without endeavor, just as we obtain distress."
Prabhupāda: Thank you. So here in the material world happiness means sense gratification, that's all. So Prahlāda Mahārāja said, "The happiness of sense gratification, obtainable in any form of life..." The birds, beasts, human beings or even the demigods, cats, dogs—everyone has got the happiness of sense gratification, namely eating, sleeping, sex and defense. That is obtainable everywhere. But the spiritual happiness, that is obtainable in human form of life. Therefore the human being from childhood... Kaumāra ācaret prajño dharmān bhāgavatān iha (SB 7.6.1). From the very beginning of childhood. Why so early? Durlābhaṁ manusam janma. This human form of life is obtained after many, many births' evolutionary process. And adhruvam.
Bhakta Gene: But so much of the tradition within the Roman Church has no reference to any scripture.
Prabhupāda: No, no, that has not been properly done. Otherwise, just like here, we have got temple, regulative principle. If it is done properly, the result will be there. If it is improperly done, then there is no result. How these boys, European, American, they never knew what is Kṛṣṇa. But on account of this following the traditionalism, they are becoming devotees. It is practical, you can see. Simply theoretical knowledge will not do. Must be practical. That is traditionalism. Tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt. That is the Nectar of Instruction. Tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt. This is traditional. One has to follow the traditional rules and regulations. Utsāhān niścayād dhairyāt tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt (Upadeśāmṛta 3). First of all one must be enthusiastic: "I shall become devotee." Then, utsāhān dhairyāt, with patience. Then niścayāt, with conviction: "Yes, I am following the rules and it will be successful." And tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt. You have to follow the traditional rules and regulations. Sato vṛtteḥ, you must be honest. Sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83). And these things in the association of devotees. Ṣaḍbhir bhaktiḥ prasidhyati. Then your bhakti, devotional life, will be successful.
Satsvarūpa: Some of these Christian mystics would say it's more important to directly contact God within your own heart. These traditions are not as important.
Prabhupāda: God is there already. Where is the contact? God is there already. It is no question of contacting. He is already, but you are blind, you cannot see. Therefore if you follow the rules and regulations, then you'll see. You'll see. Otherwise we'll not see. God is there. God is everywhere. God is here. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham (Bs. 5.35). You have no eyes to see.
Prabhupāda: Niyataḥ. You should read Bhagavad-gītā so thoroughly for everything. That is good lawyer. Good lawyer means in the court, immediately give reference to the judge, "My Lordship, such and such law, under section...this is there." He's a good lawyer. Good lawyer means he immediately gives reference to the section on which he's talking. Immediately judgement is there. If there is previous authority and it is recorded in the lawbook, then he doesn't require to argue anymore, the evidence is there. Even in other court, if some judgement is there, they'll be accepted. This is the law. So a good lawyer means he gives references from different courts, the judgement makes easier. Instead of proceeding for a long time, he gives reference—"Here is the judgement, you see," and immediately...
Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "In this Sixteenth Chapter the Lord explains both the transcendental nature and its attendant qualities as well as the demoniac nature and its qualities. He also explains the advantages and disadvantages of these qualities. The word abhijātasya in reference to one born of transcendental qualities or godly tendencies is very significant. To beget a child in a godly atmosphere is known in the Vedic scriptures as garbhādhāna-saṁskāra. If the parents want a child in the godly qualities they should follow the ten principles of the human being. In Bhagavad-gītā we have studied also before that sex life for begetting a good child is Kṛṣṇa Himself. Sex life is not condemned provided the process is used in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Those who are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness at least should not beget children like cats and dogs but should beget them so they may become Kṛṣṇa conscious after birth. That should be the advantage of children born of a mother or father absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The social institution known as varṇāśrama dharma, the institution dividing society into four divisions or castes, is not meant to divide human society according to birth. Such divisions are in terms of educational qualifications. They are to keep the society in a state of peace and prosperity. The qualities mentioned herein are explained as transcendental qualities meant for making a person progress in spiritual understanding so he can get liberated from the material world."
Prabhupāda: So where is that institution to train people to acquire these transcendental qualities? There is no such institution. We are attempting to qualify the man in transcendental qualities. This is the only institution. Otherwise, where it is? I don't think, throughout the whole world, there is any institution to train the students in transcendental qualities. Who cares for transcendental qualities? Go on.
Prabhupāda: Not arbitrarily. It is given by Kṛṣṇa. It is not arbitrary. By the supreme order. How they can say it is arbitrary? Then what is the use of referring to Bhagavad-gītā? Things may not be arbitrary, whimsical, therefore we have to take reference from Bhagavad-gītā. Lawbook. When a judge gives his judgement, he does not give it arbitrarily. There is lawbooks. So there is no question of arbitrary. The reference is there. How you can say it is arbitrary? That is not a fact. Śāstra-vidhi. Rather, if you don't care for śāstra-vidhi, then he'll never be successful. Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya, in this chapter you'll find.
Prabhupāda: So far Vedic religion is concerned, it is not for the Hindus. That is to be understood. The sanātana-dharma. It is for all living entities, all human beings. It is called sanātana-dharma. That I have already explained. The living entity is sanātana, God is sanātana, and there is sanātana-dharma. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo 'vyakto 'vyaktāt sanātanaḥ (BG 8.20). And where Kṛṣṇa is described sanātana in the Eleventh Chapter. Do you remember? He is described as sanātana. Sanātanam. So actually, the Vedic system is called sanātana-dharma. Not Hindu dharma. This is a wrong conception. The sanātana-dharma is meant for all living entities, not the so-called Hindus, Muslims, Christians. For everyone. That is sanātana-dharma. These are later misconceptions, Hinduism and this ism, that ism, that ism. Actually, it is called sanātana-dharma, or varṇāśrama-dharma. That is meant for everyone. But because it was being followed regularly in India and Indians were called by the Muslims on the other side of the River Sind, or Sindu, and they pronounce Sind as Hind. Therefore they called India as Hindustan, means on the other side of Sindu, or Hindu River. Otherwise, it has no Vedic reference. So this Hindu dharma has no Vedic reference. The real Vedic dharma is sanātana-dharma, varṇāśrama-dharma.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That I have already explained, that any human civilized man, he has got some religion. So religion, basic principle of religion is with reference to God. So here is God, What God says, if you take that system, then it will be perfect, not only for the Hindus, for Christian, for Mohammedans, for everyone. And that is being practically done in our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We have got devotees from all groups of human society and they are taking to it. It is practical. There is no difficulty. So Hindus, Muslims, Christian, everyone take to this Kṛṣṇa religion, Kṛṣṇite. Kṛṣṇian. (laughter) Not Christian, but Kṛṣṇian. The word christo is also a Greek word. From this christo the Christ has come. So instead of c-h-r-i, k-r-i, the same thing. Christian or Kṛṣṇian, or Christian.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Smṛti means... The Vedas are considered as, taken as śruti. But simply by hearing one cannot understand. Therefore smṛtis, they have explained. Purayati iti purāṇa. Complete. The Vedic mantra is not always understood. Just like the Vedānta mantra, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). This is very short cut. But Bhāgavata explains, janmādy asya yataḥ anvayād itarataś ca artheṣu abhijñaḥ svarāṭ. Explanation. The smṛti is explanation. So either you take śruti or smṛti, subject matter is the same. But these are the evidences. Śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi-pāñcarātriki-vidhiṁ vinā (BRS 1.2.101). You cannot be purified or become actually God conscious without reference to the śruti-smṛti. We are pushing on this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, it is not whimsically. It is based on śruti-smṛti-pāñcarātriki-vidhi. Therefore it is becoming effective.
Prabhupāda: Nothing can be changed. But according to the time you have to... Just like in Kali-yuga the smṛti order is kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet (SB 12.3.51). So you have to do this. Just like a physician gives a medicine that "Morning you take this medicine, in the evening you take this medicine." It is not a change of treatment. It is according to the time a different medicine. But it is recommended by the physician, not by your whims. Śruti-smṛti cannot be changed, but they have recommended different process in different times. So the reference to the śruti-smṛti is there, authority is there. It is... You cannot modify.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: There is no question then of, as he says, "new smṛti."
Prabhupāda: No. New smṛti, they may take it, "new smṛti." But smṛti is smṛti. It is not new. You have to give reference to the past śruti-smṛti. Otherwise, it is not... Veda pramāṇa, śabda pramāṇa. Otherwise there is no evidence. It is invalid, not valid. You cannot change the original śruti-smṛti, but you have to take the timely recommendation. Just like Kṛṣṇa Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, harer nāma harer nāma harer nāmaiva kevalam, kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva... (CC Adi 17.21). This is the only method. You take it. But this is śruti-smṛti-pramāṇa.
Prabhupāda: But there cannot be new smṛtis. We are giving the sanction to Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra because it is already there in the śruti. But for this time it is suitable. I am taking a certain type of medicine in the evening, it is already recommended by the physician. I am not doing it whimsically. So whimsically you cannot change. It must have reference to the śruti-smṛti-purāṇadi (BRS 1.2.101).
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Can anyone change...
Prabhupāda: No!
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...the rules of conduct as regarded in the smṛtis?
Prabhupāda: Nobody can change. Nobody can change. But rules and regulation for different times, different circumstances are there in the śruti-smṛti. We have to take it. You cannot change.
Prabhupāda: So, without reference to God, what is the meaning of sacred rites? Everything is reference that accepting the supreme controller. That is the real meaning. At least, Christian religion accepts God, Muhammadan religion accepts God, or Hindu religion accepts God. So without God, how it can be religion? If there is no understanding of God, the conclusion comes that there is no religion. Fictitious. "We trust in God," but do not know what is God. This is going on. So we have to fight against all this nonsense. Nonsense scientists, nonsense religionists. What do you think? It is not easy-going, sleeping business. We have to fight with so many demons. Otherwise, kava dava adakanam (?), my Guru Mahārāja used to say. Beg some rice and bring it and cook it and eat and sleep.
Prabhupāda: But their calculating mind, in whatever you explain you have to give reference to the śāstra, and they will say it is, what is called? Myth, mythology. They'll refuse immediately that thing. But you have no other source to explain. And they will take it immediately, "It is all mythology."
Rūpānuga: (to Sadāpūta:) What about that chart you were working on comparing the ages, the Vedic ages and the scientists ages? Do you have that? Can we talk about that now? We should ask Śrīla Prabhupāda if there's any real parallel there. One thing we were thinking, the way they talk about time in past ages, Sadāpūta put the Vedic ages side by side with their idea and saw some comparison there, it looks like there may be some...
Prabhupāda: Then it is all right.
Yadubara: Maybe two hundred.
Rūpānuga: Maybe a hundred seventy-five. We can check reference book easily. You'll find out today.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we want to make a chart. Now from these gross elements, the five gross elements, we want to extend to...
Prabhupāda: Earth, water, air, fire.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: From there we want to include the, let's say this table, ninety-two..., what scientists call elements, this gold, silver, copper, all these elements.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now in the First Canto in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also it is not very clear.
Prabhupāda: Then Second Canto, the development of Sṛṣṭi-tattva, there you'll get.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: I think there is also reference in the Bhagavad-gītā, this hiraṇmaya, because sometimes it's also called Brahman.
Prabhupāda: Brahmajyoti. What?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Brahman.
Prabhupāda: Brahman, yes. He's called Hiraṇya-garbha, Brahmā.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: It's also said in this state, pradhāna state, the cause and effect are not clearly manifested.
Prabhupāda: Caitanya caritāmṛta, did you refer Nityānanda-tattva?
Prabhupāda: That was not killing. So instead of wasting his time, he said "I don't care for your Vedas. It is my order that you stop if you love me." Here is... You cannot open slaughterhouse, giving reference to the Vedas or any sacrifice, either in the Muhammadans, Jews and everyone. They also make sacrifice. One day in the year they sacrifice. It is not that they recommend open slaughterhouse. This is all nonsense, rākṣasa. That sacrifice also recommended in this sense, that you cannot stop animal killing; there will be a class of men who'll eat meat. To give them some concession, so this is recommended, "All right, if you want to eat meat, you sacrifice." Amongst the Hindus, just like Kālī-pūjā, Durgā-pūjā, the animal-eaters, they are given this concession, that "If you want to eat meat, you just worship Goddess Kālī," and this Goddess Kālī worshiping is recommended on the amāvasyā, on the dark moon night, one day in a month, and the dead of night. So if one goes on eating meat in this way, one day in a month and dead of night, then he automatically will give it up.
Prabhupāda: Just like, you said that in the Vedas there is animal killing, therefore... (break) That was not killing. So, instead of wasting his time he said "I don't care for your Vedas. It is my order that you stop if you love me." You cannot open slaughterhouse giving reference to the Vedas, or any sacrifice either. The Jews, and everyone, the Muhammadans, they also make sacrifice. One day in the year they sacrifice. It's not that they recommend open a slaughterhouse. This is all nonsense, rākṣasa. That sacrifice also recommended in this sense, that you cannot stop animal killing, there will be a class of men who will eat meat—to give them some concession. So this is recommended, "All right, if you want to eat meat, you sacrifice." Amongst the Hindus, just like Kālī-pūjā, Durgā-pūjā, the animal eaters, they are given this concession, that "If you want to eat meat, you just worship Goddess Kālī," and this goddess Kālī-worshiping is recommended on the amāvasyā, the dark moon night, one day in a month, at the dead of night.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is a different platform of life—a spiritual. Generally people are on the material platform, in the bodily concept of life, and the whole world is going on with that wrong conception of life. Actually, as soon as we think that we are this body, we are immediately on the platform of animal life. So in the Bhāgavata it is stated, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). Anyone who is thinking, identifying himself with this body, and similarly with other references, yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ. In relation with body, we think of family, community, nationality. In this way our civilization is dog civilization. That is not human civilization. Human civilization begins when one understands that he is not this body. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Perhaps you have heard this word...
Prabhupāda: No, these are the references.
Jayādvaita: In here also. Should I read the verse? "All other incarnations are potentially situated in the original body of the primeval Lord. Thus, according to one's opinion, one may address Him as any one of the incarnations." Purport: "It is not contradictory for a devotee to call the Supreme Lord by any one of the various names of His plenary expansions, because the original Personality of Godhead includes all such categories. Since the plenary expansions exist within the original person, one may call Him by any of these names. In Śrī Caitanya-bhāgavata Lord Caitanya says, 'I was lying asleep in the ocean of milk, but I was wakened by the call of Nāḍā, Śrī Advaita Prabhu.' Here the Lord refers to His form as Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu." Translation: "Some say that Śrī Kṛṣṇa is directly Nara-Nārāyaṇa, others say that He is directly Vāmana. Some say that Kṛṣṇa is the incarnation of Kṣīrodakaśāyī Viṣṇu. None of these statements is impossible. Each of them is as correct as the others."
Mike Robinson: So when people die, it is just the physical body that dies.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that is explained very elaborately in the Bhagavad-gita: na jāyate na mriyate vā kadācin na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20).
Mike Robinson: Are you there referring to references from the scriptures?
Prabhupāda: Yes, so many references. It is a series of education. What is that? Read it.
Mike Robinson: Are you happy to carry on for a few more minutes perhaps?
Hari-śauri: I have that reference, in the dictionary. It says "Human recognition of superhuman controlling power..."
Prabhupāda: Just see!
Hari-śauri: "...and especially of a personal God entitled to obedience, and effect of such recognition on the conduct of mental attitude."
Prabhupāda: This is religion. This is religion. So this religion is applicable to everyone, any human being. Why do you bring Christian or Hindu or Muslim, or...? Everyone has to accept that. That is real religion. And this is not religion, "We believe there is no soul of the animal." That is not religion. That is most unscientific. That is not religion. Religion means scientific understanding of the supreme controller. So now if you accept the supreme controller, then if you violate something, you must be punished. Immediately you have to accept. As soon as you accept there is supreme controller, so immediately as you violate the laws of the supreme controller, immediately you are punished. That is nature's law.
Prabhupāda: All books are here?
Bhagavān: Oh, yes. Some are missing from the Seventh Canto, but most are here. Here is Caitanya-caritāmṛta. And if you have books you need, they can go down here, your reference books. I got you this little box here if you want to keep anything special. They used to make things for the princes. This is comfortable seat?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Very good.
Bhagavān: Table is close enough?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, everything is comfortable. These stones are not available in India. Maybe very costly. Italian.
Bhūgarbha: Many scholars are appreciating more and more. And on the University of Edmonton, in Alberta, Canada, Dr. Radhakrishna, he was a linguist, professor of linguistics, he's a very pious man, and he is writing a book with some other professor in the Religion department on the comparative study of bhakti in the Indian tradition and the Hebrew tradition. And he's using your books as his only source for the Indian tradition. So he ordered not only one set of all the books, but two sets of all your books. Three sets actually. He ordered one set of Bhāgavatams for his own personal library, then he ordered two sets for the University library, one for the reference section and one for the general section. So he ordered three sets. And when his book comes out, in the back they have a bibliography section, references, he will give reference to all your books. He's writing..., he was writing this book about bhakti, and he said "What is a good definition of bhakti for the Indian tradition?" So I showed him Nectar of Devotion, anyābhilāṣitā-śūnyaṁ jñāna-karmādy-anāvṛtam (Brs. 1.1.11). He said that is very good, and he wrote it down and put it in his book.
Prabhupāda: Till now, they took bhakti as a matter of sentiment. Religious science they did not know, all over the world.
Prabhupāda: And you could not secure any more.
Hari-śauri: The only other copy is in New York.
Prabhupāda: Any other Bhāgavata? Just see. Reference book must be always there. This is the principle of Gurukula. Now from this platform, on this understanding you have to organize.
Jyotirmāyī: You were saying that there are mainly three principles to learn: how to be obedient, how to know, read your books and be self-controlled. So that's what I explained to the teachers, that they should do that.
Prabhupāda: Guru says there are four principles to be followed, they should be taught in that way. No illicit sex, no gambling, no meat-eating, no intoxication. Guru says that you chant at least sixteen, that should be taught. Risen early, rise early in the morning, that should be taught. So whatever guru says, you have to teach them perfectly, from childhood; then there will be no deviation when they are grown-up.
Prabhupāda: You were there, yes. Is that life? How they can be happy if this is the condition? So what further advancement?
Harikeśa: In reference?
Hari-śauri: Tehran.
Harikeśa: Oh, your tickets are definitely booked on the nonstop flight. I finally managed to...
Prabhupāda: Take the ticket. Oh, we have got ticket.
Harikeśa: The reservation, I mean... And if for some reason we can't get on that flight, we have reservations on another flight that arrives four hours later.
Prabhupāda: That doesn't matter.
Hari-śauri: Gītā?
Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā, yes. You do not read even. You should have reference immediately.
Parivrājakācārya: Even here on the earth, even ice in the South Pole of the earth, they find much life inside the ice.
Prabhupāda: Just see. Here inside the ice there are life.
Parivrājakācārya: They are very surprised. They said how is this happening.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Life is everywhere. This bogus theory there is no life, the atmosphere is different, it is bogus, simply bogus. Because spirit soul is never affected by any material atmosphere. That is the distinction between matter and spirit. It has nothing to do with this material atmosphere. They don't have knowledge, they are baffled. And those who have no knowledge, they are accepting.
Prabhupāda: Books means solid ground. What we want to preach, it is recorded, not any concocted ideas. There is direction by Rūpa Gosvāmī:
- śruti-smṛti-purāṇādi-
- pañcarātra-vidhiṁ vinā
- aikāntikī harer bhaktir
- utpātāyaiva kalpate
- (Brs. 1.2.101)
Without the support of śruti, smṛti, purāṇa, any religious movement for understanding God is simply disturbance-utpātāyaiva kalpate. Utpāt... That is the... It is the version given by... Even Kṛṣṇa, He's God Himself, He's speaking, He's giving reference to the Vedānta-sūtra: brahma-sūtra-padaiś caiva hetumadbhir viniścitaiḥ (BG 13.5). So without reference to the Vedic literature, anything you speak, it has no ground. Śruti-pramāṇa, this is Vedic culture, śruti-pramāṇa. It must be supported by śruti. In Caitanya-caritāmṛta you'll find whenever Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, He gives immediately Vedic evidence, śruti-pramāṇa. Then it is solid. So we are trying to present this movement with śruti-pramāṇa. Our Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam will be finished in sixty volumes, and Caitanya-caritāmṛta is already finished in seventeen volumes. So altogether at least we'll have hundred volumes of books, small and big, to give śruti-pramāṇa. This is the example.
Prabhupāda: Our subject matter of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that systematize... The progress of human society should be systematized according to śāstra. Just like your government, it is conducted under certain rules and regulations. You have to refer to the government regulative principles, and expert government officers, they are selected. Formally it was ICS, now it is IAS. That means reference to the authorities. Similarly, there are authorities which are called śāstra. Śās-dhātu means to rule. From Śās-dhātu, śāstra and śastra. Śastra means weapon. If you do not act according to the śāstra then there is śastra. Śastra means weapon, government. If you violate the rules of the government then there is police department, there is military department which will force you to accept the government regulation. And from the same śās-dhātu is śiṣya, one who voluntarily accepts the discipline.
Prabhupāda: This risk should not be taken at any gain. Never mind Hari-bhakti-vilāsa, this-vilāsa—no risk. You must always know. No risk. That is the first point. Then we consult Hari-bhakti-vilāsa. Nobody can give reference to Hari-bhakti-vilāsa at risk. No. Not at all. Do? Anything more?
Dhanañjaya: Can I ask one question? You were mentioning that you wanted to start local industries, casting Deities.
Prabhupāda: Yes, we can purchase... We can...
Dhanañjaya: Purchase raw materials?
Prabhupāda: So, everything is all right now?
Prabhupāda: Lord Caitanya.
Pradyumna: Oh.
Prabhupāda: Where is your incarnation is described? Will you kindly give the reference. Anyone can say like you, that one is incarnation, as it has become a fashion nowadays. But is that claim only is the proof of one's becoming incarnation? Some such unauthorized claim of becoming an incarnation is certainly ridiculous. Such...
Pradyumna: ...unauthorized claim of one's becoming an incarnation...
Prabhupāda: Is certainly ridiculous. Then you have claimed to take form. What is he has written?
Pradyumna: "Then you have claimed to take..."
Pradyumna: "Similarly, Lord Rāma's incarnation, Lord Buddha's incarnation, Lord Caitanya's incarnationness, we have got full information from the Vedic scriptures. Where is your incarnation described? Will you kindly give the reference. Anyone can say like you, that one is an incarnation, as it has become a fashion nowadays. But is that claim only the proof of one's becoming an incarnation? Such unauthorized claim of one's becoming an incarnation is certainly ridiculous. Then you have claimed to take a form of the formless God. But we see in the Bhagavad-gītā that God is never formless."
Prabhupāda: (dictating:) Only the rascals and less intelligent class of men think that God is formless and when He incarnates, He takes a particular form. In this connection, a verse from Yāmunācārya may be quoted as follows. You have quoted the Bhagavad-gītā? That quote?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is master. Master means he will not manufacture. Lawyer means who will speak in the court with reference to the lawbook. Not that "My Lordship I have manufactured this way. You accept it." "Get out. Get out, rascal. You are not a lawyer." So this is going on. The rascals are going to be lawyer, without understanding.
Indian man: No sir, the way you explain mother earth, similarly father's explain to me.
Prabhupāda: Father He says. Because you have no advanced knowledge, how you can understand? The father says, "I am father."
Prabhupāda: Ramakrishna, how he become paramahaṁsa if he does not know the śāstra? That is the difficulty. Everyone becoming self-made guru, self-made avatāra, self-made saint. That is the difficulty. Without any reference to the authentic śāstra.
Indian man: So it's a very revealing thing, you deny Ramakrishna Paramahaṁsa...
Prabhupāda: I don't deny. You accept, you accept. My point is unless it is authoritatively mentioned in the śāstra, we reject.
Indian man: But śāstras were written thousands of years ago. Life might have changed.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. In the śāstras it is not said that after passing of many years the śāstra becomes obsolete. This is another ignorance. Śāstra is not like that. You write some mental speculation and after some years it changes. That is not śāstra. Śāstra is this... Just like the Bhāgavata was, five thousand years ago it was it was written... And the symptoms of Kali, Kali-yuga is written there in the Twelfth Canto.
Dr. Patel: Even those who are with Baroda Maharaj and all Maharaj's speeches were written by (indistinct) so one can (indistinct) These are your ideas Maharaj, "Well, everyone knows that I am writing it. It doesn't matter. I won't correct it." All the speeches given by Maharaj of Baroda was written by (indistinct). All, all, practically all. Here's a reference there. And he was a great scholar after all.
Prabhupāda: Oh yes. He was English born. His father was medical man. Dr. Madanmohan Bannerji.
Dr. Patel: They say he did not know even Bengali properly.
Prabhupāda: Yes. How he can? He was born in England. Educated in England. He was English-born.
Dr. Patel: Then he became a master in Sanskrit. That is a great, I mean intelligent...
1977 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: We do not suppose. We get the reference to the śāstra. That is our disease. We don't manufacture. We don't manufacture anything. Our point of view is if there is starvation, then we take it: mercy of Kṛṣṇa. Tat te nukampāṁ su-samīkṣamāṇo bhuñjāna evātma-kṛtaṁ vipākam (SB 10.14.8). When we are put into starvation, we take it: blessings of God. We don't complain, that "I did something wrong or there is something wrong, so God has put me into this position. It is His blessing." This is our view.
Prabhupāda: (laughs) Otherwise why people take it? When I was... I thought that I am giving my imagination, who will take it? It is my imagination. Of course with reference to the modern politics, sociology, everything. Whenever possible I touch.
Hari-śauri: But your preaching is so practical. These other men when they speak, it just comes out... It's just not practical or they don't know how to translate it into action.
Prabhupāda: Yes. I try to write. I explained in that verse, kāmaṁ vavarṣa parjanyaḥ (SB 1.10.4). I've touched all the points in the modern...
Girirāja: It has a very nice purport.
Prabhupāda: I think this opinion printed you send to all newspapers editors.
Rāmeśvara: That book that he printed?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Gargamuni: That book can be expanded with more references.
Rāmeśvara: Yes. When I reprint it I'll do that.
Gargamuni: Those European reviews.
Prabhupāda: With a covering letter: "Sir, there is much agitation about Hare Kṛṣṇa movement. You'll kindly read this following pamphlet, and you'll understand the value of the movement." And it is good that you have given the heading, "The Hare Kṛṣṇa Movement."
Prabhupāda: When the judgment will be given... There was time still to live in their particular body. So after finishing that karma, then the next body.
Hari-śauri: So we couldn't understand who this luminous being was.
Rāmeśvara: Then he closes the article by giving references to many books which describe this.
Prabhupāda: Hm. Which book?
Rāmeśvara: He first of all refers to Plato, the old Greek philosopher. In one of his books, Book Ten of the Republic, he describes a soldier. No, he gives a story which supports the idea of transmigration of soul.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He has written. Not only that. Nowadays somebody has accused that even in his old age he was having sex with young girls. I do not know. But it is a fact, when he was coming in the meeting he would touch two young girls, granddaughter and granddaughter-in-law, and then come in the meeting. I have seen. One gentleman in our, the Mullick's Thakur Badhi, when we were there. He was attorney. So when there was some function, so all neighboring men were invited. So he was also invited. He would come with at least three, four prostitutes. And he was old man, blind. Asutosh Bhan. He became very rich man by cunning lawyer. He was a lawyer. So he would take a credit that "When I go to a friend's house to keep my invitation, I take some three, four prostitute and flatterer. Then..." And he'd be received very nicely. We have seen when, when we were boys, ten years, twelve years old. I have seen it. Formerly, in our father's time, it was aristocratic to keep one prostitute and keep one garden also. Then he'll get... So this man, dehātma-buddhi and sexually inclined, he is mahātmā. This is the standard of... Ramakrishna, he was worshiping goddess Kālī. It is condemned in the Bhagavad-gītā, kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ prapadyante 'nya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20), that "Anyone who is worshiping a demigod, he is lost of all sense." So this man, by losing his all senses, worshiping a demigod, he became God. People do not take reference from Bhagavad-gītā, that "A demigod worshiper has no sense, and he has become God?" What kind of God?
Prabhupāda: In my old Back to Godhead I discussed Gandhi, Churchill, Jhinna, but with reference to the philosophy. I criticized them on the basis of our philosophy.
Rāmeśvara: For example, Rūpānuga just wrote one article which we published, and in this article he was describing some work of some scientists in Europe. They were trying to prove by their experiments that life comes from life. So he was quoting them. He was describing their work, but the whole purpose was to get people to accept the Vedas, to show that even the scientist's conclusion is the same as the Vedas. Therefore the Vedas are authorized.
Prabhupāda: Yes. That they are realizing. And they have got respect for Indian culture. And because our books are always with reference to the old Sanskrit verse, and we are explaining that, they have got natural attraction. That is possible.
Guru dāsa: There are trade agreements between Poland and India too, now. So we may even be able to open up channels on cultural or trade basis from India from our side with Poland to give us a very established position in those countries.
Prabhupāda: These dollars has to be deposited in Bank of America. Other bank will not take.
Prabhupāda: Morarji?
Girirāja: Yes. In Hindi. I couldn't follow all of it, but there was a lot of reference to Gandhi and Gandhi's principles and the..., molding the character of youth. So I told Mr. Rajda—I was watching with Mr. Rajda in his house—that this is the real way to fulfill all of these goals, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and Mr. Rajda said yes.
Prabhupāda: Then that television speech must be out in the paper.
Girirāja: Yes, it must have been reported this morning. I mean he is representing a return to the more traditional standards of morality and culture of India.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They say that they are going to replace this family planning with yoga. Instead of using artificial means, they're going to teach yoga.
Prabhupāda: To become brahmacārī.
Prabhupāda: Oriental Series.
Guest (1): Vedic Concordance. All the ślokas of Veda are listed according to alphabetical order of reference, and it is mentioned where they are occurring.
Prabhupāda: Find out janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1).
Guest (1): It is in the indexes. It is according to alphabetically arranged.
Prabhupāda: They have so much respect for Sanskrit language.
Guest (1): No, there are about ten, fifteen volumes like this. Sanskrit dictionary.
Prabhupāda: That means they have got respect.
Prabhupāda: They will take advantage of Bhagavad-gītā and do their business.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What are some of the important shastric references in regard to developing an article on cheating?
Prabhupāda: Hm? Where is authority, that you are speaking rightly? Just like in the law court, when they plead, they give the reference to the lawbook that... A good lawyer means he will give reference "Under section... This is my authority." That is authority. (break) (Hindi) Ap thik hai?
Girirāja: So this is Mr. Ram Jethmalani. He is the Member of Parliament representing this constituency. So he recently came from Detroit. He was teaching at the university there while this emergency was going on, and now he came back. So he mentioned his idea of helping the slum dwellers. So I have showed him that article, "One Hundred Million Harijanas Looking for a New Messiaḥ" and gave him a copy of the letter which Goswami Mahārāja wrote. In the meantime he was just busy with other functions. He didn't get a chance to go through it. He is very interested.
Prabhupāda: All right.
Ram Jethmalani: One of the historical pieces of evidence is that if Rāmāyaṇa was historically earlier than Mahābhārata, it is curious that there is no reference in the Mahābhārata at all that any other gods of Rāmāyaṇa. And if it will be the other way around, there is no reference to...
Girirāja: But there is reference in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam...
Prabhupāda: About Rāmāyaṇa. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam there is reference of Rāmāyaṇa. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is the last writing of Vyāsadeva.
Ram Jethmalani: In last writing it may contain, but between the two of them, there is no cross reference of any kind. Now, a personality like Kṛṣṇa, when first set up, it must have become a phenomena at least.
Girirāja: But in the Gītā Kṛṣṇa says... He describes His different vibhūtis, and there He says, "I am Rāma."
Girirāja: But in the Gītā Kṛṣṇa says... He describes His different vibhūtis, and there He says, "I am Rāma."
Prabhupāda: "Amongst the warriors, I am Rāma." The reference is there. This very word is there. "Amongst the warriors, I am Rāma."
Girirāja: And it's also described that the great sages in the forest who were worshiping Rāma, they wanted to associate with Him in a particular way which was not possible because He was acting as the ideal king, so He said that "In My future appearance as Lord Kṛṣṇa, I will fulfill all of your desires."
Prabhupāda: And besides that, in the Vedic literature, Brahma-saṁhitā, this name Rāma is mentioned.
Prabhupāda: No, no, there is no question of later or former. These are always existing. And They appear, disappear according to the necessity. Yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati bhārata tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham (BG 4.7). The mūrtis are there, permanently, and They appear and disappear according to the necessity. Suppose in a case you require the reference to a law. It is not that the law has appeared for the purpose. The law was there already. You have to simply bring it for your business. Rāmādi-mūrtiṣu kalā-niyamena tiṣṭhan nānāvatāram akarod bhuvaneṣu kintu kṛṣṇaḥ svayaṁ samabhavat paramaḥ (Bs. 5.39). Any sweets?
Indian man: Here.
Prabhupāda: Oh, you have got. Madhureka samapayet.(?) At the end you must take some sweets. Then it will be digested. (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: Very?
Indian Astronomer: Late, very. Because you won't find any reference to grahas in the Vedas. As a student of Vedas, I can guarantee that there is no reference to the grahas in the Vedas. Because nava-grahas are only important mantras, not they are (indistinct). So when because these things comes later on, Kalpa-sūtra, for those adopted the grahas and prepared the mantras from the Vedas for the grahas. So historically we must have come down. Now we'll find out in what date they are presented. Till now I was told all these things after only... I am also preaching Bhāgavata.
Prabhupāda: Now, where is the situation of the grahas in this planetary system? Whether sun is first or moon is first?
Indian Astronomer: Sun is first. Definitely sun is first because the moon is the reflection of sunshine. (quotes Sanskrit verse) Vedas say (Sanskrit).
Prabhupāda: Candrama has... Candrama has got his own light. It is not reflection.
Prabhupāda: Yes. From historical reference it is so, but it can go still farther, and in that way India's glories will be magnified. But unfortunately our leaders and government are callous. They do not know what is India's glory and how India's glory can be distributed. They are trying that India's glory will be magnified by imitating Western way of life. This is the defect. They can understand that the Western way of life has not given them actual happiness. Otherwise why these boys, they are coming to India? They are young boys, and they are coming from very respectable family, rich family, rich nation. They have no economic problem. They have not come here to earn their livelihood, as we go to England to learn something, technology, and earn our livelihood. They have not come here for that purpose. They have enough food, enough everything, material. They are hankering after some spiritual... So there are two sides. (aside:) Why you are reducing? So our leaders, rather, they are misinterpreting śāstra, our leaders, and trying to mold it to the material way of life.
Indian man (1): No, not...
Indian man (2): Very passing reference he made once.
Prabhupāda: Why? That means he does not know what is Kṛṣṇa.
Indian man (3): Who made this reference? Who made this passing reference, where Kṛṣṇa is...?
Indian man (2): Gandhi made...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Gandhiji.
Prabhupāda: I don't speak especially of Gandhi, but there are so many. Everyone takes Bhagavad-gītā and misinterprets in his way. Why? Boliye. Why they should misinterpret Bhagavad-gītā? What right they have got?
Indian man: (Hindi)
Prabhupāda: This shelter made for keeping always reference book... There is no book. Vṛndāvana. Just see. See. The shelter kept there, reference book. It is not there. Just see. What for we have got shelter? Shelf is there for keeping reference book. Somebody has taken away. That's all. This is our management(?). Very bad management. What can I do? This is our movement. We have to select men from the worst class. Pāpī tāpī jata chilo. (laughs) Nobody will come here after passing M.A., Ph.D. The most fallen we have to select.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Lowest(?).
Prabhupāda: That you have to examine expertly.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: In other words, there's no set principle that only the works which you have already translated can be published by the BBT. If there is some worthy translation of a bona fide Vedic reference, if it's properly done, the BBT could publish it.
Prabhupāda: That we are doing, just like Hindi. We are doing other languages. If it is properly translated, it can be...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Even if it's a work which you have not yet translated yourself.
Prabhupāda: No, no, no, the principle is... Just like my translation, another person translating into Hindi or other languages, we are publishing. Similarly, if somebody has translated properly, it can be published. But amongst our disciples, I don't think there are many who can translate properly.
Prabhupāda: Yes, you must have proper answer as far as possible.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We just read... We got a version from South India, and we've even found that there are different conceptions of what the Bhāgavata is saying. But the Purāṇas, they give some Puranic references.
Bhakti-prema: It is written the world... The earth is round and flat.
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Bhakti-prema: Earth is round and flat both, together.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Bhakti-prema: First we should reply it is acintya. This should be the reply. "Inconceivable."
Prabhupāda: So you can send them: "This is not good." Let him know.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So Satsvarūpa wrote a letter to the editor of the newspaper-it's a newspaper which is put out by Siddha's people-saying that "This is not at all proper. You should not..." He gave so many shastric references why it is not good.
Prabhupāda: It will be corrected.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, I mean the main... It's not so serious. The main point is, as you said, they're chanting and all these other activities.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So we shall go now?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. It's getting late.
Prabhupāda: Where is Jao Prasad? (break)
Prabhupāda: Hm, hm, hm.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says he understood that busts of divine images of guru and Kṛṣṇa are not to be made. He says in New York you explained this point with reference to photographs that were used in Back to Godhead of your divine self that it was impersonal to cut off some portion of the complete worshipable form.
Prabhupāda: No, if it is not worshipable, if it is to be kept in library, that can be done.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah. He says, "I beg to be excused for troubling Your Divine Grace on all these questions, which I always hesitate to do, but I took this liberty."
Prabhupāda: You are always allowed. Sad-dharma-pṛcchā. This is one of the duties of devotees. Sad-dharma-pṛcchā.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: All in all, though, it's still very impressive and very much encouraging. It's just like everything—it takes practice. This is the first of its kind. So for being the first, it's very nice. And it certainly is well organized. That's a fact. Everything is there—good guesthouse, nice prasādam and qualified speakers. You can see our men are very... They must be presenting thousands of facts. I mean every sentence they are backing up with some quotation or some substantial reference. They are very well prepared for these lectures.
Prabhupāda: But other parties, they are not taking interest.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Other parties mean?
Prabhupāda: Opposition.
| Page Title: | Reference (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 27 of Feb, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=122, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 122 |