Reality (Conv. 1976 - 1977)

Expressions researched:
"realities" |"reality"

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: Manyamāna, manyamāna. He is thinking he is very intelligent.

Acyutānanda: While he was saying that, I was thinking, "I hope I never have him for a judge."

Prabhupāda: You'll find everywhere such.

Acyutānanda: Ultimately he was saying, "It is not Kṛṣṇa or this. It is some 'something.' That is the reality."

Keśavalāl Trivedi: He was thinking that he was bringing about some synthesization.

Acyutānanda: Yes.

Keśavalāl Trivedi: And that he was bringing...

Prabhupāda: (break) ...with this land also? No. (break) ...this building?

Mahāmṣa: I think it is a school, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Oh. (break) He does not know. He does not say that "certainly school." "It may be."

Morning Walk -- February 6, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Frozen. Frozen ocean. Means they are defeated; they are coming down. By the sun they are defeated. They were high. "Now go down." Now it will be finished.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Burnt off. (break) What is the way to draw the line between the following three things: blasphemy, fault-finding, and calling a spade a spade?

Prabhupāda: A spade a spade... Just like I am saying that "What you are? You are small fig only." That is reality. And what is the other?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The other is fault-finding and...

Prabhupāda: Fault-finding, that is another fault, that... vraṇam icchanti, makṣikā vraṇam icchanti, madhum icchanti(?) Just like the flies, they are finding out where is sore, and the bees, they are finding out where there is honey. So two animals, they have got two business: fault-finding and collecting the good things. These are two... Just like creature. They are two classes. Similarly, there are many rascals who are simply fault-finding.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And blasphemy?

Prabhupāda: Blasphemy means you have good qualities, but still, I am defaming you.

Morning Walk -- February 6, 1976, Mayapura:

Dayānanda: Except through Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Mām eva ye prapadyante. You surrender to Kṛṣṇa and everything will be clear, just like as soon as the sun rises, everything is clear, no covering. That is our propaganda, that you become Kṛṣṇa conscious; then you become fully aware of everything. Otherwise you remain rascal, fools, gādhā, asses. If you prefer to remain asses, you can do so, but we are servant of Kṛṣṇa. We must preach real, reality.

Dayānanda: Even the jñānīs and yogis become...

Prabhupāda: What is these jñānīs? They are also another rascal, another edition of rascals. Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). Therefore so-called jñānīs, after many, many births' practical realization, they surrender to Kṛṣṇa. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā (BG 7.19). Then he understands that Kṛṣṇa is everything. But such great person is very, very rare. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ, very, very rare.

Dayānanda: But what about the persons who may be a little bit devoted but who have not achieved that unalloyed devotion?

Prabhupāda: Kaniṣṭha-adhikārī. They are not devotees, but they are called bhaktābhāsa. There is some signs of bhakti. Actually they are not bhakta. Bhaktābhāsa. Ābhāsa. Ābhāsa means a simple, a little light.

Room Conversation With Radha-Damodara Sankirtana Party -- March 16, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: But for us there is nothing material. We have no such vision as "material" and "spiritual." Material means when we forget Kṛṣṇa's right. That is material. Everything is Kṛṣṇa's. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29). He is the proprietor; He is the enjoyer. So, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Everything Kṛṣṇa's. So when we forget Kṛṣṇa's right on everything, that is material. Otherwise there is nothing material; everything spiritual. Everything is generated by Kṛṣṇa's energies, and there are two energies, material energy and spiritual energy. So in the material energy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is less or nil. And in spiritual energy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is prominent and very acute. I think I give this example somewhere. Just like this nail, and just little below, there is skin. Both of them are my body, but in the skin there is sensation; in the nail there is no sensation. But both of them are coming from the same source, the body. Similarly, everything is Kṛṣṇa's. Idaṁ hi viśvaṁ bhagavān ivetaraḥ. Everything is Bhagavān but appears like different to the different vision. Therefore we take everything.... kṛṣṇa-sambandhi-vastunaḥ. Everything..., in everything there is Kṛṣṇa's relationship. So there is no question of giving it up. Why shall I give it up? This is Kṛṣṇa's property. Why shall I give it up, prāpañcikatayā buddhyā, by mistaking it as material? Kṛṣṇa-sambandhi-vastunaḥ. So these Māyāvādīs, they say the brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā: "This material world is false, and Brahman is reality." And we don't say that. Everything is reality because it comes from reality. When it is not used for Kṛṣṇa, that is unreality. It is not properly being used. Otherwise there is no such thing as unreality, because it is coming from reality. So why shall I give it up, tyāga? Neither tyāga, neither bhoga. Everything utilize for Kṛṣṇa. This is our way. Any question on this regard? I saw your wife also. She is here.

Room Conversation With Radha-Damodara Sankirtana Party -- March 16, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Egocentric, yes. This is egocentric.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It should be Kṛṣṇa-centric.

Prabhupāda: Yes, then it is perfect. The competition must remain. The others, they say, "Why competition? Make it zero." That is imperfect. But competition to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, that is reality.

Devotee (3): I found the verse. It's in "Ohe Vaiṣṇava Ṭhākura." Ekākī āmāra nāhi pāya bolo, hari-nāma-saṅkīrtane.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, not this verse. What is the meaning?

Devotee (3): Meaning is, "I do not find the strength to carry on alone the saṅkīrtana of the holy name of Hari. Please bless me by giving me just one drop of faith with which one can attain the great treasure of the holy name of Kṛṣṇa."

Prabhupāda: So nobody is powerful alone. In Kṛṣṇa's service also, combine together. That is wanted.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I think there is no question of being alone anywhere, because the guru is always with one.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the ideal.

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: They say that you can chant some mantra and go on with your sinful life. But the practical result is that people's lives remain the same. They may simply divert themselves from their suffering temporarily. But in reality their condition of life is the same. They're still in a miserable condition of life, whereas Prabhupāda is actually lifting us out of the well of misery to the atmosphere of blissfulness.

Prabhupāda: That Mahesh Yogi advertises in the paper, "TM: You don't require any religion, don't require to follow any principles," and so on, so on. But I have got so many strictures; still, they do not go to him. They come to me. He has no stricture, but I have got so many stricture. And it is the report of the draft department that "Why the young men come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement? What is the facility?" So they studied. So they reported, "There is no facility, simply rigidity. Still they go there."

Reporter (5): Do you have any plans of propagating your movement in India? Because you have been for too long working in the West, and I believe India is not getting the benefit of your teaching and your guidance.

Prabhupāda: India is so misguided that it will take some time to come. Because what I.... Even if you speak to India, what I shall speak? I'll speak Bhagavad-gītā. The Bhagavad-gītā was already there, still already there. But India's misfortune is they are so neglectful, they don't take care of Bhagavad-gītā. They'll bring, "Why not Sai Baba? Why not this bābā? Why not that bābā?" That is the difficulty.

Morning Walk -- April 17, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. It means they have no knowledge.

Dr. Patel: Māyā has taken away their vision, their sense of understanding, sense of.... What do you call, sense of understanding or sense of...?

Prabhupāda: Sense of reality.

Dr. Patel: Reality. I was trying to say that word, reality. Āsuraṁ bhāvam āśritaḥ (BG 7.15). But today the whole world is practically asura.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...is a word declared to the asuras. You see? Therefore everyone is our enemy. Nobody likes us, because a declaration of war against the asura... And we are fighting with some tiny soldiers, that's all. And they are very strong. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Thank you. Jaya. (break) ...we don't want who says that "Why you are searching after God? The gods are loitering in the street." Of course, it is in higher sense, but you cannot say respectively(?), "Everyone is God." Maybe.... (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: Now we must not.... (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: That very word suggests that he is not to that stage where he can see Nārāyaṇa everywhere.

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: What do you think?

Brian Singer: In numbers. Yeah. I think yes, but I don't know.

Prabhupāda: Yes. It must grow. If it is good, there must be customer. And if it is bad—it is cheating—there may be some customer for some time, then it will be finished. That is the test of reality and false thing. You can cheat persons with false things for some time, but if your commodity is right, the customer will increase. That's a fact. The more people will appreciate, "Oh, here is nice commodity. Purchase it..."

Brian Singer: Do many people follow Kṛṣṇa consciousness by reading books in this method?

Prabhupāda: No, not only reading books. By practicing, by understanding. Then it comes right.

Brian Singer: But what proportion of those people, of all the people...

Prabhupāda: You.... You cannot expect any good thing to be taken up by mass of people. That is not possible. In university, when matriculation candidates, there are so many. Then B.A. candidates, so many. And when you come to the M.A., Ph.D., a very few number.

Room Conversation -- Honolulu, May 20, 1976 :

Prabhupāda: It is the only process to save yourself.

Devotee (3): You..., you told a story once about, there was one, the devotee of Lord Caitanya, where he had never met Lord Caitanya, but he had some water sprinkled on him from a Muslim, Muhammadan, and that, that astrologer told him to pour..., to drink lead, hot lead. And he said, I was (indistinct)...

Prabhupāda: Buddhimanta Khān.

Devotee (3): Yeah, Buddhimanta Khān. (pause) You've also said in the past that there is no reality of this material world save for, save Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, save...

Prabhupāda: Yes, Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura (says), nāma vinā kichu nāhika āra, cauddha-bhuvana-majhe. (pause)

Devotee (3): Kṛṣṇa is our only insurance, and you are the, you are the insurance representative.

Prabhupāda: People are so intelligent that when the representative of Kṛṣṇa speaks, they (indistinct) enemies, and sometimes they crucify, kill. So people are so kind that they are not killing. Otherwise, why Christ, (indistinct) was killed? What fault? What is his fault? Just see. Was there any fault in his words? He advised, "Don't kill," and he was crucified. We have to deal with such rascals. I may be representative, but he is directly son of God. People are so rascal that they did not believe even the son of God, what to speak of His representative. What is that? Why Jesus Christ was killed? What was his fault? People are (indistinct). What the Christians will ask? Therefore we are (indistinct) and not only that, they have been giving this idea that "For our sinful reaction Christ has taken contract, so let him suffer being killed(?)." Cow-killing is very, very sin, "That's all right; don't mind. Christ will suffer." How easy understanding they have.

Morning Walk -- May 27, 1976, Honolulu:

Hari-śauri: Like that Comte we were doing...

Prabhupāda: Everyone, all rascals are thinking like this.

Hari-śauri: They were saying that God's existence is imaginary; man is reality, man is supreme.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because your..., you cannot... Just like our Alfred Ford, he never saw Henry Ford. Then why he says that "I'm the great-grandson of Mr. Ford"? Ford is not there. But why he's claiming Ford's property? Where is Ford? The great-grandson is not expected to see the original establisher of the family. But if there is no philosophy, how they can, any philosophers, all meat-eaters, drunkards, (laughs) woman hunters, and they can be philosophers. (laughs) They're dogs, simply barking. That's all. Simply dogs.

Devotee (1): They say that our philosophy is nice if we can get everyone to follow it, but we will never...

Prabhupāda: Why shall I follow? Why shall I follow? You are limited. Why should I follow your philosophy?

Devotee (1): They say that...

Prabhupāda: They say..., they can say all nonsense, but I have to say something. You accept God as the central point, then I accept you. Why you are making state? Then I'll say "I have got my state," then there is fight-American, Russia. That's all.

Morning Walk -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Why? Suppose you have left the car; does that mean it is destroyed? You are going again.

Rādhāvallabha: But at the time of death it is destroyed when you leave it.

Prabhupāda: Death is different. When the car is no more usable, that is death. But we are returning to the car because we know that it is usable. And if we know that it is useless, we don't go to that car. That is death.

Yadubara: Śrīla Prabhupāda. At the time of sleeping, there is a subtle reality that the subtle body enters into?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Reality means as you take this awakening vision as reality, similarly, the dream vision is also real.... Nothing, none of them are reality. They are all temporary.

Yadubara: But that subtle reality is just as real as this gross reality?

Prabhupāda: Yes. They'll not stay. This reality will not stay.

Hari-śauri: It's all a dreamlike existence.

Prabhupāda: Yes, simply a long duration dream. Do you think this skyscraper building will stay? Nothing will stay. It may stay for five hundred years or five thousand years. But is it not permanent. Anything you take—the trees, this land, nothing; even this ocean. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). It appears again and again disappears, that's all. Everything. The material world means that. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate. Vyaktāvyaktam. Sometimes manifested, sometimes not manifested. This town is manifested, and one big wave of sea, it will be nonmanifested, immediately.

Morning Walk -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Yadubara: So that subtle reality is existing side by side with this gross reality.

Prabhupāda: Reality is in the spiritual world. This is imitation reality. Real reality is in the spiritual world.

Hari-śauri: We have to go left here, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (pause) The material universes are like a produce of Mahā-Viṣṇu.

Prabhupāda: A big dream, that's all. Material existence means a big dream. How long you'll dream? So long you are in this body. And as long as the body is finished, your dream is finished. Your nation, your society, your friends, your money, your bank, everything finished. Is it not a dream? Then dream another—you become cats and dogs or demigods. You dream in a different way. You are now dreaming as American; next life you may dream something else.

Bharadvāja: So every man has his own world that he's living in?

Prabhupāda: Eh? He creates his own world. Nothing is own—temporary—he creates, and Kṛṣṇa gives him the opportunity, "All right, you enjoy." Hare nāma, hare nāma.

Morning Walk -- June 4, 1976, Los Angeles:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You are giving us the weapons with which to challenge.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Transcendental knowledge. Now the Russians will fall also if our books are introduced there.

Prabhupāda: If actually they are after something reality, they must accept. If they are actually after something reality. It is natural. They have been disgusted with this Christianity. Useless, that's all. But if they are actually serious, then they'll accept knowledge. (japa)

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: (break)...exhibit of Bharadvāja's in the temple of the Dāmodara and Mother Yaśodā.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It is nicely done?

Prabhupāda: Hmm. (japa) (break) ...that he is not my father, that is not possible.

Rāmeśvara: They say that the atom is the source of everything.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Rāmeśvara: They say that the atom, the little particle, is eternal, original.

Prabhupāda: But you rascal, you are not coming from atom; you are coming from your father. That is my reply. You rascal, you are coming from your father, not from the atom.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's representative means the representative says the same thing as Kṛṣṇa says. Kṛṣṇa says "Surrender unto Me," and the representative says "Surrender to Kṛṣṇa." And because he delivers the real knowledge, he's as good as Kṛṣṇa. Therefore sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ **. The spiritual master may appear to be just like a common man, but he is to be respected as God, because he delivers the real message of God. That is the qualification of spiritual master. He does not manufacture anything. That is very easy. If I carry your message and educate people in that way, then there is no difficulty for me. Everything is there. Why shall I go to manufacture something imperfect? The perfect thing is already there. Simply I have to carry. A post peon—the money order is there, he has to simply carry and deliver to the person. And if he gets at time of need, he thanks the peon, "Oh, you have saved my life." It is like that. The message is already there. You have to simply deliver to the suffering humanity. Then he'll be relieved. And because he delivers the real reality, therefore he's worshiped as God. Sākṣād-dharitvena samasta-śāstrair uktas tathā bhāvyata eva sadbhiḥ **. Ācāryaṁ māṁ hi vijānīyāt. Kṛṣṇa also says ācārya is..., "I am ācārya." Because when there is, na ca tasmān manuṣyeṣu kaścin me priya-kṛttamaḥ (BG 18.69).

Garden Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Now discuss on this point amongst yourselves whether it is rightly said or wrong. If anyone has any objection. Yes?

Dr. Wolfe: Prabhupāda, I remember in Atlanta last year when an Indian Ph.D. came to see you and was sitting at your lotus feet, and he spoke about the problems in India, overpopulation and hunger, and then he said to you, "Swamiji, you must always realize the realities." And you said to him, "You don't know the reality." And he did not answer one word. He is now always coming to the temple, although he is working with the monkeys on behavior study. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: So anyone has any objection to this statement?

Nalinīkaṇṭha: I was thinking that Kṛṣṇa also says that aghāyur indriyārāmo moghaṁ pārtha sa jīvati. This is useless, spending your time in sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: Find out this verse, aghāyur indriyārāmo.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: No, everyone.

Richard: I think everyone has different ideas. There are many different ideas about what happens after death.

Prabhupāda: Therefore we have to know what is reality.

Richard: What is reality.

Prabhupāda: Therefore we have to know what is reality. Simply ideas will not do.

Richard: Okay, reality I would say is...

Prabhupāda: If you do not know, how you will say? You say that you do not know, but how you will say, if you do not know what is reality?

Richard: Oh, I know what reality is.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Richard: Reality is a series of moments or a moment perceived by the senses.

Prabhupāda: That I have already explained. The drunkard is feeling by drinking his senses are very satisfied, that is reality.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Richard: Sure, it's his reality.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Then why should you canvass him, "Please come to the church and accept Christianity"?

Richard: Frankly, I don't know. I don't really know why he should be asked to go to church.

Prabhupāda: Therefore.... Then there is no need of church. Everyone can do whatever he thinks reality. That is no standard reality.

Richard: No, reality is not in itself a goal. It just is.

Prabhupāda: Then what is the goal?

Richard: I would say, you know, we discussed this earlier, it's a, it's trying to find what makes one's life worthwhile.

Prabhupāda: Trying to find, that means you do not know.

Richard: No, I think life is a pursuit, I don't think it...

Prabhupāda: What is that pursuit if you have no aim or objective? You are going to school, the object is you become a graduate. If you do not know what is the ultimate goal, what is this pursuit?

Richard: Why pursue something?

Prabhupāda: You are going to school, college, suppose you are going to be graduate, but if you do not know what is the ultimate end of pursuit, then what is this pursuit? Simply blind?

Richard: No, it's, it's just trying to make your life work.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: There must be some goal, ultimate goal. That we must know. That is called pursuit. If you do not know what is the ultimate goal of life, then there is no meaning of pursuit.

Richard: Um.

Rāmeśvara: Prabhupāda is talking about an absolute reality, not a relative reality.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Richard: What is your definition of an absolute reality?

Prabhupāda: That is final.

Richard: A goal.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Richard: Okay, and what is the absolute reality?

Prabhupāda: Relative means it is understood in two ways. Absolute means there are no two ways, final. Final. So what is the final aim of our life? That we must know.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, we know, everyone, all of our students.

Richard: What is that absolute reality that is the absolute goal?

Rāmeśvara: The absolute goal is to understand that within this body there is a living force which is spiritual, and that spiritual force is a servant of God. It has a relationship with God. Apart from how you perceive the world through your senses, beyond that there is a soul which has a relationship with God. That is the absolute reality. You may perceive the world in so many ways through your senses, but beyond that, within your body there is a soul which is yearning for a relationship, a loving relationship with God. And if you neglect that relationship due to your senses...

Prabhupāda: Ignorance.

Rāmeśvara: ...or ignorance, then you're missing the reality of life and you're living in an illusion. Due to your senses you're living, you could live, be living in illusion. The senses are not perfect instruments for understanding reality. There is another process for understanding reality. The senses are not perfect. Therefore one should not depend upon the senses to understand reality. There is a greater process.

Richard: And how is that found?

Prabhupāda: You find out this verse: sukham ātyantikaṁ yat tad atīndriyaṁ grāhyam.

Rāmeśvara: What's the second word, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Sukham ātyantikam.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Richard: Okay, and what I am saying is that I have, there has never been any empirical proof of that.

Rāmeśvara: But I have already explained that these senses are not the perfect instruments for experiencing reality. Just like sometimes there may be a cloud, and therefore you cannot see the sun with your senses, but that does not mean the sun is not there. It simply means your senses are not powerful enough to see. The senses are imperfect instruments for perceiving reality. The sun is always there, but sometimes you can see it and sometimes you can't.

Prabhupāda: Just like night, this is night, you don't see the sun. That does not mean there is no sun.

Rāmeśvara: Don't rely on empirical sense perception.

Richard: Okay, right, you're introducing here though, the essence of all religion, and that is faith. Faith...

Prabhupāda: It's not faith, it is fact. If I say that there is sun and you cannot see, if you deny, "No I don't see. There is no sun," so which is fact?

Richard: Well there is no sun now. There's no sun present.

Prabhupāda: Sun is there. You cannot see.

Richard: Right now, the sun, in my life, is not present.

Prabhupāda: It is present, that is ignorance. You just phone immediately to Bombay, "Is there sun?" He'll say, "Yes."

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Everything. They have got so much intellect, technologists, everything—no land.

Kīrtanānanda: In material life there is always one thing lacking.

Prabhupāda: sat-saṅga chāḍi' kāinu, asate vilāsa, te-kāraṇe lāgila mora, karma-bandha-phāṅsa: "I have given up reality, and I'm attached to unreality; therefore I am entangled in fruitive activities." Te-kāraṇe lāgila mora, karma-bandha-phāṅsa. (japa) (break)

Rāmeśvara: Actually, on Watseka Avenue we own more property than anyone here in Beverly Hills.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Rāmeśvara: On Watseka Avenue, we have the temple and maybe seven other buildings, so we own more property and buildings than anyone here in Beverly Hills.

Prabhupāda: They have only one house—with great difficulty.

Rāmeśvara: We have the whole block.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) There is law, income tax, supertax, welfare to the..., so many taxes? No, only income tax.

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: This is the authoritative source, that you are not master, you are servant. Cultivate this knowledge. Don't try to become a master, falsely. That will never be successful. Remain servant of Kṛṣṇa, you'll be happy. That is the business of spiritual master. He gives the right information; therefore he is respected so much, because he does not cheat. "You can become master, even God you can become"—this is cheating. The real spiritual master says that "You can never become master. You are always servant." And therefore he's worshiped. He gives the right information. Therefore he is honored so, because he does not cheat. The so-called spiritual master is cheating, that "You take this mantra and give me some money and you become God." This cheating is going on. Spiritual master is to be worshiped. Why? Because he does not cheat. He gives the right information. That is his credit. Guruṣu nara-mati. Therefore one should not take guru as ordinary human being. Ordinary human being, he'll cheat you, or he'll give some information, he's cheating. But a guru, real guru, he'll not cheat you. Therefore he should be worshiped as good... God does not cheat you. Therefore guru should not be taken as ordinary human being. Guruṣu nara-mati. "I see that he is like ordinary man. His son is calling him 'father.' His wife is..." That's all right, but because he's giving the right information, he is not ordinary human being. Therefore he should be worshiped as good as God. He does not cheat. That is the test of guru. He'll never say that "You give me some bribe and you'll become God by meditation, transcendental." He'll never say that. This is cheating. Why father is respected? Because he never cheats the son. Father is also a man, another man. Why father is...? Because he's always wishing welfare of the son, he does not cheat, sincerely teaches him the reality. Then?

Garden Discussion on Bhagavad-gita Sixteenth Chapter -- June 26, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: That is the rascaldom. That is rascaldom. Just like in prison house, if a prisoner thinks that he can do whatever he likes, that is rascaldom. That is going on. The modern civilization is rascaldom. He is seeing practically that he's under the control of material nature, and still he thinks that "I can do whatever I like." This is rascaldom.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The Christian conception of salvation was more one of being saved from hell rather than an attraction for some transcendental reality.

Prabhupāda: Christian conception... Mass of people, they do not know what is hell because they are living in the hell already. That was the story. When hell was described, he was undisturbed, but when he was informed that there was no newspaper in hell then he became... "Horrible. How one can live there without newspaper?" So so far hellish condition is there now... Pradyumna, where is Pradyumna Mahārāja?

Kuladri: He is showering.

Prabhupāda: He was describing about that factory. So they are working in the factory, what do they care for hell? Even if we go to hell, they will get some good salary, that's all. Money required, then I can drink nicely. The standard is there. Now this qualification, abhayaṁ sattva-saṁśuddhir, what is that? It does not strike them at all, these qualities are high qualities. Is it not? This is the... What is the translation?

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Devotee: We are escaping from reality.

Prabhupāda: There is the question. (devotees laugh) but their reality is dog's race, and our reality is to advance in self-realization, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is difference. Therefore karmīs have been described as mūḍha, asses. Asses. And asses, why the example is given to the asses? Because the ass works very hard. It loads on the back tons of cloth of the washerman, and the washerman in return gives him little morsel of grass, and he stands at the door of the washerman, eats the grass, again loading. But he has no sense that "If I go out of these clutches of washerman I can get grass anywhere. Why I am loading so much?" The karmīs are like that. They're busy in the office, very busy. If you want to see him, "I am very busy now." (laughter) So what is your result of busy? "Now, I take two pieces of toast and one cup of tea. That's all." (laughter) And for this purpose you are so busy? He does not know why he's busy. Because in the books he's finding, "Now, the balance was one thousand million dollars, now it has become two thousand," that his satisfaction. But he will eat two pieces of bread and one cup of tea. When it was one million dollars, when it was two million dollars. But still he'll work hard. This is called karmī. Asses. Work like asses, without any aim of life. This is asses. Mūḍha. But Vedic civilization is different. The accusation is not correct. They are not lazy. They are busy for higher subject matter. And that busy-ness is so important that Prahlāda Mahārāja says, "Beginning from the childhood," kaumāra ācaret prājño (SB 7.6.1). Not lose a second time. So that is Vedic civilization. But these asses, they do not see that "These men are working like us, like dogs and asses. So they are escaping." Yes, escaping your fruitless endeavor. So the Vedic civilization was meant for self-realization. Vedic civilization begins from the varṇāśrama system. Varṇāśramācāravatā puruṣeṇa paraḥ pumān viṣṇur ārādhyate (CC Madhya 8.58). How to realize Viṣṇu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Next question, Śrīla Prabhupāda. Question nineteen. "Do you envisage or envision a different role for Hinduism in the Western countries where the influence of other great religions has been felt for centuries?

Prabhupāda: No. There is no different role. God is one. God cannot be duplicate. As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā that mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). "There is no more superior authority than Me." That is God. Now people is to understand that Kṛṣṇa is God. There is no different role. The role is the same. Five thousand years Kṛṣṇa said that "I am the supreme authority. There is no more superior authority than Me." Still He is so. So we are simply attempting to introduce Kṛṣṇa. Nobody attempted. Although five thousand years past, nobody attempted to introduce the supreme authority Kṛṣṇa. We are just trying to introduce following the orders of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He, five hundred years appeared. He is Kṛṣṇa. He wanted that this Kṛṣṇa consciousness should be spread all over the world.

pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi-grāma

sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma

(CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126)

Kṛṣṇa is not for India. He is for everyone because He is God. He claims that "I am the seed-giving father for all living entities." Not only the human society, but also other living entities like the aquatics, the insects, the plants, and the animals, all living entities. He says, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). Everything is there, but this cult of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or Bhagavad-gītā as it is, was not preached properly. Everyone interpreted Bhagavad-gītā in his own way to satisfy his own whims. We are just trying for the first time to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and it is being effective. So it is not a different role. It is the actual role. Nobody tried for it. Therefore Kṛṣṇa was unknown, but we are trying for this for the few years. But because it is reality, it is being accepted. It is being accepted. No attempt was made that. So it is not a new role. The role is already there: to preach. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's vision.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Bill Sauer: Sir, may I read you back the, my version of "Materialism Without Purpose"? May I read you "Materialism Without Purpose"? "Mankind's insatiable appetite for material things stems from instinctive desire to pursue technology, which in turn drives civilization to a frenzy of activity. However, without a cause or a purpose," or spirituality, as you say, "the rush and hurry in uncertain directions to uncertain places creates an excess of technological gimmickery. Perhaps this continuing quest for more material goods would be less anxious if the cause of this obsession of mankind were universally recognized. If we saw the ultimate use of technology as an extension of nature with a purpose for the whole life system, perhaps a new life style would evolve. We would see creative natural instinctive satisfying outlet for energies, and we might all collectively attain more peace of mind. The waste of technological gimmickery would then disappear. Hard reality, however, will extinguish our relentless desire for material things if we do not correct the situation ourselves. We will soon run out of resources and power if our technological explosions continues as blind as a raging torrent of water flowing in any direction gravity takes it."

Prabhupāda: Yes, we are carried away by the laws of nature. However you may improve your technological science, you are under the laws of material nature. That you cannot change. But if you revive your spiritual life, then you can change. Otherwise it is not possible. If you keep yourself under the laws of material nature, then you have to be carried away by the laws of material nature, however expert you may be in technological understanding. Because, after all, you are an instrument in the hands of material nature.

Morning Walk -- July 9, 1976, Washington D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Hm? It is also past sins.

Devotee: Purification?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee (1): Well the materialists would say, "You're just accepting it that way. The reality is that you're becoming sick just like anyone else."

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Devotee (1): The scientist or materialist will say, "You're just becoming sick like anyone else, but you're saying it's just, that you're becoming purified."

Prabhupāda: Hm. What you have to do?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: It's a fact though, when people are suffering they're neutralizing their sinful reactions.

Prabhupāda: Yes. What is the wrong there? (break)

Devotee (1): ...becoming purified from this suffering then why isn't it when we're sick, why is it that we forget Kṛṣṇa, we become disgusted, and after we are sick we don't feel any more advanced than before? (break)

Prabhupāda: ...purified, you will not be sick.

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: That is ignorance. So this education, this civilization is so dangerous that everyone is kept in the darkness. And when he dies, this everything is finished, he's going to accept. Whatever body nature gives him, he has to accept.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Sometimes people criticize us that we are talking too much about death.

Prabhupāda: Because we are not fool like you. Because as sure as death. But you are so fool you do not think of it. So we are not rascal like you. This is the difference. We take practical reality, but you are such a fool you don't care for the reality. So we are not so fool like you are.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: But even though you are making so many arrangements to prepare yourself, still you have to die.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. I'll die, but I am... Just like one has to go somewhere, he'll know everyone has to go. Man..., suppose a building has to be dismantled. So the tenants or the residents, they make arrangement "Where shall I go next?" And the foolish rascal, he doesn't care. And when the times comes for dismantling the house, he becomes busy, oh, he does not know. That is the difference between you and me. I know this house is to be dismantled, so I'm making preparation where to go and stay. But you are such a fool, you are thinking that we'll stay here.

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Rāmeśvara: You say they are ghostly haunted.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Rāmeśvara: Ghostly haunted.

Prabhupāda: Yes, everyone, the materialistic man means ghostly haunted. He's talking so many nonsense. The whole grade, philosophy, science and everything, all ghostly talking, that's all. There is no reality. Just like the new science you said, what is that?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Huh?

Prabhupāda: That new medical science?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Biomedical ethics.

Prabhupāda: A big name.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, it's a nice name. They started with theology also now, in the speculative branch of philosophy.

Prabhupāda: So in spite of these big, big names and research and everything, man will die. This is bakāṇḍo nyāya. He's thinking it will drop. It will never be possible, but they're thinking that by these big, big names we shall find out the way that man will not die. This is bakāṇḍo nyāya. Hope against hope. So by that method they want to live? No.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: First class.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...of the human society. But actually it's one body, one entity already, simply that with different activities that we have to perform. The example is given, mukhe bāhūru pāda-ja: That there is the head; there's the arms; there's the belly, the abdomen; and then there is the legs. And all of them are part of the same body. So you might say that the legs are removed from the head, or that the head is removed from the stomach, but actually it's all one body and it works together. But the head gives direction to the whole body, how to act properly, so that the benefit is there to be derived. So Śrīla Prabhupāda is creating a class of brāhmaṇas, or heads of human society, who can give direction to the whole sphere of human activities so that they can become successful in human life. So in reality, we're not trying to create farmers, we're trying to create brāhmaṇas. But our farming communities are, so to speak, an example, an ideal example how human society can live: some people in the capacity of preachers, some people in the capacity of farmers, how so many activities can go on—various occupations—but all of them can be God-centered. So in reality, these people, they're farmers, they're out there on their tractor, they can jump off their tractor at any moment and preach the highest philosophy, because actually they're brāhmaṇas. They (are the) intelligent class of men. So it's one entity. The basic principle is that modern society is neglecting to train up—especially young men, you can see that in spite of so many universities throughout the world—these young men are being trained up how to become women-hunters and debauches. Going to the bars, going to the gambling houses, and they are supposed to be educated people. So real education is how to train up one to have ideal character, to become a brāhmaṇa.

Guest (1): Thank you.

Prabhupāda: Our men's productive. There must be food production, otherwise how the society will live. That is also a requirement. Good direction required, good government required, good production required, and good worker required. You can explain that there is no understanding of spiritual life. That they are missing the opportunity of human life.

Evening Darsana -- July 13, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Our men's productive. There must be food production, otherwise how the society will live. That is also a requirement. Good direction required, good government required, good production required, and good worker required. You can explain that there is no understanding of spiritual life. That they are missing the opportunity of human life.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This Kṛṣṇa consciousness is a spiritual culture, and basically speaking the human society begins from dharma, or accepting the principle of God. Dharma begins with this acceptance of the principle of God, that human beings, their activities, have to be regulated. Just like in human society there is marriage. This is according to scripture. Every scripture regulates there must be marriage. This is dharma. It regulates certain activities that should be done, certain activities that should not be done. And basically speaking this is the beginning of human civilization; otherwise, they're simply living in a civilization of gross sense gratification which is in reality no different or no better than the society of animals. So from dharma, human society begins and generally... You can see practically that dharma generally focuses... People are taking that dharma is for the basis of economic development. This is proven practically because in pioneer times in America for example, people they were simple going to churches and synagogues, and temples and all kinds of things, what have you. And economic development was going on very nicely, in fact, economic development could not have gone on unless there was this principle of religion. People were very, practically speaking... In a pioneer situation people are very barbaric, struggle for existence—you know, you're in the country, there is no road, there's no cities—everyone is very, simply interested to maintain themselves. But by churches and things of this nature, people saw the need for a civilized give-and-take way of living—economic development. Then gradually, the ideas developed further and further, but in modern days we can see that people are having economic developments and there's no need for God, they think at least. In other words, people are no longer attending churches, synagogues, things of this nature, because they are making sufficient money without the need of religion. Therefore, the basic principle is being missed that human life is not simply meant for economic development. Human life—we analyze, we can say that...

Prabhupāda: Human life is meant for making a solution of all material problems.

Room Conversation with Professor Francois Chenique -- August 5, 1976, New Mayapur (French farm):

Prabhupāda: Neophyte is neophyte. Why do you bring him to become a devotee? A devotee is different. A "one plus one equal to two," he's not mathematician. He's learning. There is hope one day he'll be a big mathematician. There are three stages, kaniṣṭha-adhikārī, madhyama-adhikārī, uttama-adhikārī. So when you speak of devotee, that is this uttama-adhikārī. So he knows everything. Rather, the so-called jñānī, he does not know. Because he does not know Kṛṣṇa. The so-called jñānī, he does not know what is Personality of Godhead. He's impersonalist. Therefore he is still unaware of the Absolute Truth. Therefore he's not jñānī. His jñāna, his knowledge, is lacking. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said,

bahūnāṁ janmanām ante

jñānavān māṁ prapadyate

vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti

sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ

(BG 7.19)

If one jñānī is impersonalist, he's not jñānī. He is still unaware of the Absolute Truth. He does not know. Therefore it will take many, many births to come to the understanding of the Personality of Godhead. Therefore he's not jñānī, he's claiming to be jñānī. Such jñānī will take many hundreds of births to come to the position of real jñānī. Find out this bahūnāṁ janmanām ante (BG 7.19). So-called jñānī, after many, many births, when he understands Kṛṣṇa and surrenders to Him, then he's jñānī. Sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ. That kind of jñānī is very, very rare. The impersonalist means ajñānī. Yes. Because he does not know Kṛṣṇa, the person. There is another verse in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam: āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32). Āruhya kṛcchreṇa, by the jñāna process, is undergoing austerities and penances, one comes to the platform of paraṁ padam, monism, or platform of oneness. But because he has no shelter, he patanty adhaḥ, again comes to the material. Just like so many sannyāsīs in India, they are very learned, they have come to the platform of Brahman realization, but after some time they come to the material field for political work, for social work. They give up this world, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. If jagat is mithyā, is false, why does he come for social work? Just like these people going to the moon planet, but because they do not get any shelter, they take some sand and come back again. So what is the use of going there and spending so much money and come back with little sand, and satisfied, "Now we have studied"? Because they have no shelter. So the jñānīs, they have no shelter. Yes. They may go very high in the sky, but because they have no shelter they come back again. Punar muṣaka bhava, again become a mouse. So that is not jñānī, that is ajñānī. Jñānī is described here, mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām (BG 18.54). Brahma-bhūta (SB 4.30.20) is jñānī, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā, "I have nothing to do with material world." Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54), there is no lamentation, there is no hankering. When he has attained that stage, brahma-bhūta stage, reality, then he is entrance in the bhakti. Otherwise a neophyte.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Parivrājakācārya: There is danger of losing that faith.

Prabhupāda: Yes, if you do not try to make progress and go forward progressively, then there is danger whatever little faith you have got, that will diminish.

Hari-śauri: Your understanding of God tends to remain somewhat theoretical until one actually does something practical. Then it actually manifests as something solid, as a reality.

Prabhupāda: Theoretical and practical. Scientific knowledge means both, theoretical and practical. (someone enters) If you like, you can sit down there. I have no objection if you sit down.

Jñānagamya: It is up to you, Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: No, I am... Everyone, you can... Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is practical. They are fully engaged how to make progressive advance in love of Godhead. They have no other business.

Hari-śauri: Nowadays generally, if someone is very religious and he wants to do some practical action, he usually acts on the social platform.

Prabhupāda: No, there, everywhere practical action. Just like all the Muhammadans, they go to the mosque, five times they offer prayer. That is good, very good.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Ali: This was just only a presentation of the...

Prabhupāda: Yes, presentation. We are everywhere in that platform, but we have to transcend this platform. Then we come to the spiritual platform. Then spiritual knowledge begins. And if we stick to this platform, then there is no spiritual knowledge. That is material knowledge, but try to understand spiritual knowledge. That is the position. To try to understand spiritual knowledge from material platform, but when you actually come to the spiritual platform, then spiritual knowledge is perfect. Just like another example, just like water. Theoretically you learn swimming. That is not swimming. You get into the water and practically learn swimming. Then it is swimming. Theoretical knowledge, that you put yourself in the water, you move your hands like this, move your legs like this, that is good. But it will be... Just like in the airplane before starting, they give so much instruction. It is going on really. But when actually the airplane is danger, that will be practical. Is it not? They are giving so much instruction, who cares for it? (laughter) They're talking and people are hearing. But when it will be practically demonstrated, that is real life. So, spiritual knowledge, understanding theoretically, it is little good, but when it is done practically, then it is reality.

Room Conversation (Bullock Cart SKP) -- September 12, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That's all... But what is that great? What is God you do not know. We know. Kṛṣṇa says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). There is no more greater principle than Me. That is great. How you are great? Aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). "I am the origin of all the demigods." Next how you are great? Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). This is their ignorance. They have simply heard God is great, but how He is great, that they do not know. Here is the... God is personally speaking, "Yes, I am great in this way." Ahaṁ sarvasya. Vedānta says janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). That is greatness. The original source of everything. So we are presenting God, "Here is God." Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. Ete cāṁśa-kalāḥ puṁsaḥ (SB 1.3.28). There are other incarnations, but kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. That's a fact. So try to present the real fact. It will be effective. If there is real reality, just like first class pure ghee... If one tastes, he'll hanker after. Without any advertisement, by the taste of the ghee, it will go on. Is it not? If you put little pure ghee on the rice, it will be so tasteful, that he'll want it again. But give the pure thing. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Try to give Him to the people. And how to take it? Hare Kṛṣṇa. He hasn't got to pay anything. God has given him the tongue. Induce him, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. And that is the beginning. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau (Brs. 1.2.234). It begins from the jihvā. So people will be surprised, "How God consciousness begins with jihvā?" That they do not know. Śāstra says sevonmukhe hi jihvādau. Jihvā, the tongue is the beginning of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. God consciousness. People are surprised, they think the mind, speculative mind is the beginning. No. Śāstra says tongue is the beginning. Muni, ṛṣi, muni. Muni means speculator. So they think speculative mind is the beginning of God consciousness. But śāstra says no, not the mind. Manorathenāsati dhāvato bahiḥ (SB 5.18.12). If one is speculator, he will be on the material field. Asata. Asato mā sad gamaya. "Don't remain in the asat. Come to the reality." That reality begins from the tongue. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau. Jihvā ādi, ādau. So give them chance to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and give them chance to taste prasāda. They'll be... That's all. Jihvādau. Utilize the tongue, primarily.

Press Interview -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: There are two sections, the impersonalist and the personalist. The personalists are the Vaiṣṇavas, and the impersonalists are the Māyāvādīs. So far the spiritual life is concerned, there is no difference. There is no difference. Just like Śaṅkara. Śaṅkarācārya said that brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā. The spiritual life is reality. And this is nonreality. But we say that this is duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam (BG 8.15). Kṛṣṇa said. We are follower of Kṛṣṇa. "This is a place of suffering. And if you come to Me then your suffering ends." So this world is condemned either by Śaṅkarācārya, or others, everyone. But the modern rascals, they have taken this world as everything. Therefore they are in ignorance. Do you follow? They have taken this world, this life of fifty years or sixty years, at most hundred years, as reality. These rascals have no knowledge that we have life after annihilation of this body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). Who knows it? Bring big, big men, big, big politician.

Press Interview -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Nobody knows who is his father.

Indian man: I want to understand, Guruji, that the saksaska, is it a sort of emotional belief or it is a concrete...

Prabhupāda: No emotional. It is fact. Concrete.

Indian man: Concrete reality.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If your mother says, "Here is your father," that's all right. You don't require any other. And that is paramparā. Mother knows how you were created by your father. So she is the ultimate evidence. That's all. You cannot speculate. If you disbelieve your mother, then there is no question of understanding your father.

Indian man: We all have at certain moments of devotion some sort of feelings when we feel we are very much near the God. But that concrete reality, to attain that, the only way is jñāna, upāsanā.

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is jñāna. But the jñāna must be received through the right source. Jñāna is not speculation. The modern rascals, they create jñāna by speculation. That is not jñāna. That is ajñāna. The same example. If you don't receive jñāna from your mother, there is no jñāna of father. If you millions of years go on speculating who is your father he'll never be revealed. That is not jñāna. That is ajñāna. So these rascals, they are creating jñāna. That is not jñāna. Jñāna means you should receive jñāna through the right source.

Press Interview -- December 31, 1976, Bombay:

Pradyumna: Avyabhicāriṇī.

Prabhupāda: Ah. Central point is to become devotee of Kṛṣṇa. Then?

Pradyumna: Vivikta-deśa-sevitvam aratir jana-saṁsadi (BG 13.11).

Prabhupāda: Ah. Not to mix with this rascal class of men. Aratir jana-saṁsadi. Not that I hold a meeting and some rascals give me clapping, (claps hands) I become... Don't be after this. Try to understand the reality. But we, we become political leader, and if one thousand or one lakh of people give me a few claps I think I become perfect. What you are perfect? The next moment by the laws of nature you'll be slapped and taken away. Who could save Gandhi when he was fired by the laws by the nature? That clapping would not save me. Mṛtyuḥ sarva-haraś cāham (BG 10.34). When Kṛṣṇa will come and put you death, what you will do? With you clapping and your bank balance. You'll be taken away. Then?

Pradyumna: Adhyātma-jñāna-nityatvaṁ tattva-jñānārtha-darśanam.

Prabhupāda: Tattva-jñānārtha-darśanam. Tattva-jñāna. What is tattva? These things are absent completely from the whole world. But everything is there. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. If people take it they'll be benefited. This simple mission. We are following Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Caitanya Mahāprabhu has said that you become guru. Everyone become guru. So how shall I become guru? Very simple thing.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with C.I.D. Chief -- January 3, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And for these books, as author, if I would have taken royalty, my daily income would have been one lakh, fifty thousand. I don't take a single farthing. Whatever two cāpāṭis they give, that's all.

CID Chief: Then if that had been the objective, so much of this (indistinct) not would have come in reality.

Prabhupāda: I have no appetite also. (laughs) I do not eat too much. Whatever, one or two cāpāṭis, they give, I take. That's all. This is my royalty.

CID Chief: But any... How these politicians, they react to this in America? Do they...

Prabhupāda: There also... Here. Here people are suspecting that I am getting money from CIA, and they are also suspecting that I am cheating people and getting money.

CID Chief: Yeah, but do they have any prohibition about these religious discourses?

Prabhupāda: No, not... Prohibition has yet come. But individual cases, they have been instituted, and we are fighting by spending so much money to defend.

Morning Walk -- January 4, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Some portion. He wanted to prove himself that he is Puruṣottama.

Dr. Patel: He's not Puruṣottama. He does not say that. Puruṣottama is really reality in true sense and...

Prabhupāda: But his disciples say he is more than Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: Disciples..., disciples...

Prabhupāda: That means why he has created such nonsense? If the disciples say something wrong, then that means he is also wrong. These people will never say that "Our Guru Mahārāja is more than Kṛṣṇa." They are not so nonsense. They will say "My Guru Mahārāja is servant of Kṛṣṇa and I am his servant."

Dr. Patel: He has said Puruṣottama is svarūpa. It cannot be a... Anything which is infinite cannot be grasped by finite senses. That's what he said.

Prabhupāda: This is going on. But disciples say that Aurobindo is more than... This is their knowledge.

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: I know that.

D. D. Desai: She herself is highly... The amount of respect she has got for Indian culture is terrific, to an extent of almost aggression if somebody puts a foot down or something about these things. Even Panditji, with all said and done, he had a feeling, and he was one with Mahatma Gandhi, that a day will come when India, by solving its problems, will take away the existing world from the present Western culture to a new culture, which will be of a superior level. That day would be the day when India has made good its ultimate destiny. Something like that they had feeling. So Panditji also was dreaming, but he was not an executive type of person. So Panditji had left his thing, all the dreams, but Mrs. Gandhi seems to be translating some of the dreams, or at least she feels she's translating some of the dreams into reality. The difficulty with her is that she has not proper guidance at times, and to that extent she feels she falls into certain pits of difficulties. Basically a good soul, but a soul with certain waywardness could become at times little...

Prabhupāda: So if you think that Mrs. Gandhi is religious and is for Indian culture, why not ask her to take the guidance of Kṛṣṇa? Who can give better guidance than Kṛṣṇa?

Room Conversation -- January 8, 1977, Bombay:

Guest (1): That is why Indians are not joining then. Because they are not joining because of that; they cannot understand what is the reality. Because we try to comment upon the God's actions, "Somebody's poor, somebody's rich, somebody's this."

Prabhupāda: But actually you don't believe in God. That is the disease, godlessness. If we believe in God...

Guest (2): If we fully believe... But there are a large portion of...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. They don't believe in Him. They think that "God is my servant, or order-supplier"—"God, why you have not done this. If you don't do this, I don't want You." This is our position.

Guest (2): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Yes. That means "God is my servant order-supplier." Actually... This is European mentality. One, my Godbrother, German Godbrother, that Sadananda, he told me, in the last war, when the war was going on, generally women were left. All men were in the battlefield, somebody's husband, somebody's father, somebody's son. So they went to the church. They were going church. Even Churchill also recommended "Go to the church. Pray." Duḥkha se saba hari bhaje sukha se bhaje kaya. So, but nobody returned. So all of them became atheist: "Oh, it is useless to go to church. I prayed so much for my husband coming back, but he did not come. Useless." So this is the position. "I ordered God that 'My husband has gone to the war. Let him come back unharmed.' And God did not bring him back. He did not carry my order. I don't want this God." This is going on. When the war was declared, there was no consultation with God. (laughter) Rascal. That time there was no consultation. And when the husband is going to die, he goes to God. This is our position.

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No. Not only twenty-four hours, twenty-six hours.

Rāmeśvara: That is their charge, that it is too extreme. They say we isolate the devotees from the real world. We don't let them read newspapers, we don't let them...

Prabhupāda: That is your real world, but you do not know what is reality. Your real world is this body. But this body is not real. That, you rascal, you cannot understand. Your reality is this body, but body not real.

Rāmeśvara: Even if this world is not real, temporarily it's real.

Prabhupāda: Temporary, yes. So I am eternal. I must associate with eternity. Why shall I..., temporary. Suppose if somebody comes in India, American, that is his temporary residence. Why shall I accept India as everything? Similarly this body is another India or for Indian, American. It is temporary, asann, asat. Asann api kleśada āsa dehaḥ (SB 5.5.4). This body is temporary. That you have no knowledge. Why shall I be attached to the temporary things? I am the owner of the body, I am reality, so I must realize myself. Self-realization. This is self-realization, that "I am not this body, I am pure soul, Brahman." Ahaṁ brahmāsmi.

Dr. Patel: Even Jesus said so.

Prabhupāda: Christ said that if getting everything one loses his own soul... What is that?

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Devotee (1): Śrīla Prabhupāda, just like that story with the scissors, how can we force the scientists to accept Kṛṣṇa and the Bhagavad-gītā. How can we force the scientists to accept Bhagavad-gītā? The problem seems to be...

Prabhupāda: No, if it is a fact, you can force, if it is a fact. And if it is not fact, then it is obstinacy. If it is reality, you can force, just like the father forces the child, "Go to school." Because he knows without education his life will be frustrated, so he can force. I was forced. I was not going to school. Yes. My mother forced. My father was very lenient. My mother forced me. She kept one man especially to drag me to the school. So force is required.

Gurukṛpā: But that is the authority. Your parents were your authority.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Gurukṛpā: But they don't accept us as authority. They say, "I'm equal to you. Actually..."

Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness, another foolishness. Father-mother, natural guardian, they can force.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: We have to show that, the higher understanding...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Hari-śauri: But then they could argue that actually the dream is just imagination. When the man wakes up, then he's back in reality.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, it is acting on him. You cannot see how it is acting. That is not possible. You cannot see how it is acting, but it is acting.

Ādi-keśava: So that proves there must be something beyond the gross plane.

Prabhupāda: Yes. But your conclusion—"I cannot see"—that is brainless. That is brainless proposal. You depend on your seeing, but you cannot see. So many things are happening. That, your proposal, is brainless. That means you have no sufficient brain to see things as they are. Take this point and consider. Place in the court. It will be very interesting. Case will prolong, and we can disclose our all philosophy. Is it not?

Tripurāri: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Do that. Think deeply, over and over again, and fight. What is your seeing? Useless. What you can see? You cannot see beyond this wall. Does it mean there is nothing? Why you depend on your seeing, rascal? That means brainless. So I take it, it is good opportunity for describing our whole philosophy.

Room Conversation -- March 22, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh. World Health Organization.

Prabhupāda: World Health Organization. Rascal, who is healthy? Everyone is going to die. "World Health Organization." They are manufacturing. They do not think that "Where is health?" Such foolish things are going on all over the world. So organize something reality and spread, slow but sure.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We shouldn't be impatient to compromise just to...

Prabhupāda: There is no question of becoming impatient. You have got diamond. No buyer of diamond—that does not mean you have to throw it away.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And sell something less.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Diamond is diamond. It must be purchased by the suitable customer. Because there is no customer I shall throw it away? So we have got diamond. It is not possible that everyone will purchase it, but there must be diamonds. People must know that "Here is diamond. If I want it, I must pay the proper price." That I want to establish. Why India's culture should be lost in this way, in the wilderness?I am not cheap patriot like Gandhi and... I want to give Indian culture to the whole world. I'm not going to cheat people, taking Bhagavad-gītā and speaking all nonsense. I want to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is. That is my mission. Why shall I cheat you, a gentleman? (Hindi)

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda (Member of Parliament) -- March 27, 1977, Bombay:

Mr. Rajda: No, in the last rulers, most of them were Communists, but they said that religion is opium. They say religion is opium. They didn't believe in religion at all.

Prabhupāda: Therefore they say something, we say something, he says something. That you manufacture something. But nobody know what is reality. That is the difficulty. Unless you know the reality, to suggest something, "I suggest it," that does not mean it is solution. That is going on, all over the world. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā ye bahir-artha-māninaḥ (SB 7.5.31). Bahir-artha. The external features, these material features, they are concerned with that. Earth, water, air, fire, mind, intelligence. But they do not know that beyond this, there is another element. Unless you come to that knowledge, there is no question of welfare activities. That knowledge is available in India. India should understand. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission. Bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya janma haila yāra (CC Adi 9.41). Not only India, but he must be a human being. Not only human being, but also systematic human society. (break) Of course, we are trying to give this knowledge. These American, Europeans, they are taking it. It should be done very systematically, not alone tried.

Evening Darsana -- May 15, 1977, Hrishikesh:

Prabhupāda: If the dress has got hand and leg, then the person who is putting on the dress, he must have hand and... So this is the conclusion. When in the śāstra it is said that "God has no leg, no hand," that... In the Upaniṣad it said that "He has no leg, but He can walk swifter than anyone." So that means He has got a different type of leg. And that is summarized, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ (Bs. 5.1). His vigraha, His form, is not material form. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśri... (BG 9.11). Because Kṛṣṇa comes as a human being, the foolish mūḍha-mūḍha means rascal-rascal thinks that "He is also one of us." But Kṛṣṇa says, "No, no," sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā (BG 4.6), "I come here in My original, spiritual form." Sambhavāmy ātma-māyayā. So these are to be understood. So manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu (BG 7.3). Because they cannot understand—they cannot make distinction what is spiritual, what is material-therefore they cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye. First of all one has to understand what is material, what is spiritual. So unless one comes to the spiritual understanding, he cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Manuṣyāṇāṁ sahasreṣu kaścid yatati siddhaye (BG 7.3). Siddhaye means "for spiritual understanding." And yatatām api siddhānām (BG 7.3). So yatatām api siddhānām. Even the jñānīs, they are supposed to be siddha, and they also miss the point, that "The Supreme has no material body, so only negation." No. There is positive body. Therefore bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān (BG 7.19). Although he has knowledge, still, his knowledge is not purified. Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adhaḥ (SB 10.2.32). And because they cannot capture the real form of the Lord, they again fall down in this material world. Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ. Falsely such persons think that "Now I have become liberated" without approaching the form of the Lord. Ye 'nye 'ravinda... Aravindākṣa: "One who has got lotus eyes." Ye 'nye... Ye anye aravindākṣa vimukta-māninaḥ: "Thinks of himself as he had become liberated." He may be liberated from material concept of life, but aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ, because he could not understand, take, what is the form of the Lord, the result is āruhya kṛcchreṇa, with great austerity, he can come to the platform of nirguṇa Brahman, Parambrahman, but because naturally he is seeking after the reality... He does not get the reality, only eternity. Reality is bliss. Sac-cid-ānanda. That ānanda he does not get.

Conversations -- June 28, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Scholars, they theorize. I say practical. Scholars want to say, want to show how much their imaginative power is strong. That's all. And they all speak nonsense-Ramakrishna. And my point of view is how to give people practical hints so that they may be raised from this rotten condition.

Śatadhanya: You are compassionate.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Tathā vinoda(?). I have done on reality. I want to establish reality, not imagination. What is the use of giving some imaginative idea, just like this rascal Darwin? Everything rascal. No practical value. And he has written volumes of books, and people are accepting: "From monkey, man has come. That's all." But monkey is there; man is there. Where monkey is extinct? The whole theory is absolutely bogus, and people have accepted it. I never believed that. Anthropo... Anthropomor... No? The...?

Upendra: Anthropomorphism.

Prabhupāda: And... What do you call, this science?

Śatadhanya: Anthropology.

Prabhupāda: Anthropology. Anthropology we believe; as it is stated in the Vedas, we believe, one after another. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarāḥ... That is the... The soul is changing. So there is no question of... "Survival of the fittest." Nonsense. Who is fit?

Room Conversation -- October 10, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Who is there?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's Upendra Prabhu. He's cleaning up your room for you. He's cleaning the floor nicely. He put fresh flowers. Somehow you have to be able to eat something, Śrīla Prabhupāda. That's the... At least in my mind it's perplexing question which I don't know the answer to. In all these events I have to face the reality that I'm simply a completely bewildered fool. I know you have to... If you're to get better, you have to be able to eat something. I don't know what to suggest, though.

Prabhupāda: You bring some milk. That's...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want to drink some milk? (to Upendra) You make just now. You want any water mixed with it? Half-half? (to Upendra) Milk half-half with water. (some whispering discussion with Upendra) Upendra is thinking that milk will cause the coughing.

Upendra: Śrīla Prabhupāda, I think that just as you gradually decreased your eating and drinking and became very weak, so you should increase gradually, very carefully. Yesterday you drank barley water and grape juice, and you didn't come down with a cough. So if you increase just a little barley water and mung water, then after a few days thin milk, maybe some Complan, and then gradually increase the resistance...

Prabhupāda: So instead of water, barley water.

Room Conversation With Svarupa Damodara -- October 15, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Abhirāma: "And you bring those sacred texts which are studied by the holy men in India. These are the only two things I want." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...some way or other it has become successful.

Bhāgavata: There is no question of thinking, Śrīla Prabhupāda. It is a fact. It is reality that you have become successful, because you have converted even now the scientists. Even the scientists are becoming encouraged to take up Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and their minds are being changed. It is history, and we are seeing it right before our eyes. That is another one of your great contributions in your spiritual conquests, that you have converted the scientists. As Caitanya has conquered the Māyāvādīs, you have conquered the scientists. That's why we are very much eager that you shall remain with us more and more, to carry on these conquests, that we can somehow or other in some small way just help you. But your presence is definitely required. Actually all the devotees are just living to see you from time to time, so that they can get your darśana.

Room Conversation With Bharadvaja -- October 16, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Bharadvāja: The last portion of the exhibition is called "The Perfection of Life," and it is comprised of two portions, two parts. The first part describes the process of self-realization, and the second part is called the transcendence into the spiritual world, with emphasis on the reality of transcendental variegatedness and personality. That means we're actually going to try to give the viewer an experience of becoming purified. His senses are gradually becoming purified through the process of self-realization, and then we take him through the different spiritual realizations. And then the last part is Vṛndāvana-līlā of Kṛṣṇa, to show that the Lord is a perfect person and that everyone has a place in His personal service in the spiritual world. So this is the... That's the simple outline, and I have another portion here which deals a little more elaborately. I'll just read some of the things to you. So we call the introduction to the exhibition, we call it "The Overture." In this introduction there are several points. The first point is that we are not made up of... We're showing what is the body. So we're showing that the body is made up of different elements. And there's a film that shows how the man is made up of different component parts We are showing that different organs are just like different machines and mechanical systems, and that life is consciousness and that consciousness is different from and did not come from matter. So we're showing that the heart is like a pump, and lungs are like bellows, and the eyes are like cameras, and the ears are like tape recorders, and the brain is like a computer, and so on. But behind all of these machines there is the witness, there is the seer, or the soul. So he is different from all these different machines. Then we show... We take everything down to smaller and smaller particles, and we bring everything down to atomic structure, and then we show that there does not seem to be any purpose to this. So where is life? Are we just...? My life is full of purpose, so where is the life here? Can we be just molecules? Where does life begin? On this portion of the exhibit we are working with Svarūpa Dāmodara and the Bhaktivedanta Institute to make a scientific presentation. This will involve films and dolls and other special effects to show the..., how ridiculous is the idea of material evolution, so-called evolution of matter into consciousness. So Svarūpa Dāmodara has his own presentation that we're going to use here. We've seen some of it during the conference. Then the second exhibit will perhaps be a whole group of scientists, and these scientists are sitting in one room, but they're all from different ages. And each one of them in turn expresses that they're having so many doubts. This we will take directly from their own quotations from different biographies, and we will show that the scientists are very confused about the origin of life, that they cannot actually explain anything, and they are saying this in their own words. Many scientists have said things like this-Darwin, Einstein. We have a list of eight here, and we can use their quotes. And they express bafflement, ignorance and failure to understand life or explain the universe. Then we show how... We put man back together out of chemicals, so-called. We're going back to the original man, which... We have analyzed one man, and now we're going back from the molecular level again back to the man. And then we show how the fetus is developing. We're showing that the life and consciousness is there from the very beginning. And then there is a film that shows this, and then that shifts to that display of the changing body.

Prabhupāda: Life begins from water.