Psychology (Conversations 1967 - 1974)

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1967 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discourse on Lord Caitanya Play Between Srila Prabhupada and Hayagriva -- April 5-6, 1967, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: Lord Caitanya, yes.

Hayagrīva: In order to...

Prabhupāda: In order to appreciate Kṛṣṇa in the form of gopī. Just like I have got dealings with you. So you have got your individuality, I have got my individuality, but if I want to study how you are so much obedient and loving to me, then I have to go to your position. It is very natural psychology. Yes. You have to paint in that way.

Hayagrīva: I think that's clear.

Prabhupāda: Huh? That's clear. Accha. Then fourth scene is lunar eclipse. You'll have to arrange a scene that just in the evening there is appearance of the full moon on the side of the Ganges and people are taking bath half in the water and half above the water, and they're all chanting, this same scene, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, with mṛdaṅga and... Yes. So somebody comes, Advaita. Advaita comes in the scene to take bath in the Ganges and begins to dance. "Oh, my mission is now fulfilled! My mission is now fulfilled!" He'll talk. He was very sorry to see the condition of the people that everyone is engaged simply for material sense gratification. Nobody is engaged in love of Godhead. So he wanted to rectify their behavior, but he thought that "I am ordinary man, what can I do? If Kṛṣṇa Himself comes, then He can do it." Therefore he worshiped Kṛṣṇa, and he simply offered Ganges water and tulasī leaf. In this way Kṛṣṇa has taken His incarnation as Lord Caitanya. So he has understood now at this moment Lord Caitanya is now taken His appearance. So he was dancing, "Now my mission is fulfilled. Now my mission is fulfilled."

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation about Marriage -- September 24, 1968, Seattle:

Prabhupāda: She likes this... (microphone noise) But also marriage problem, one must have a choice. So if we force something, that is not (chuckling) good. At least, in your country it is not... Of course, in your country, the husband...the boys and girls are, I mean to say, not major, whatever the parents force, that is another thing. When the boys and girls are grown up, it is not possible. Just like in India, there was svayaṁvara. Svayaṁvara means the girl will select her own bridegroom. That was allowed to princess. Princess, highly qualified princess. So the father would make a challenge, that "This is the condition. One who can fulfill this condition, I'll offer my daughter to him." So this was generally amongst the princes. So there was great fight. (laughs) Just like Arjuna. Arjuna married Draupadī. You know the condition? Her father made condition: there was a fish on the ceiling and one wheel was circling. So one has to pierce the eyes of the fish through the hole of the circle. And he cannot see directly. He has to see down. There is a reflection in waterpot. In this way, he had to pierce. (laughs) "In this way, he has to fix, and in one stroke the eye will be pierced. One who is successful, my daughter is for him." So nobody could, except only Arjuna. He was such expert bowman that he... Similarly, Lord Rāmacandra also made... In the palace there was a big bow. It was all hardened, made of iron. So long standing it was there. So one day, Sītā was sweeping the floor, and with her left hand she pushed the bow. It was very heavy. Nobody could... It was very weighty, heavy. And with her left hand she pushed it. So her father said, "Oh, this is wonderful girl. She can lift this. Nobody can lift it and with her left hand she pushed it? Oh, then my son-in-law will be he who can break this." (laughter) So he made a challenge that anyone, any prince, who will come and break this bow, he'll be my son-in-law. So it was only possible by Rāmacandra, Lord Rāmacandra. So these challenges were made amongst the kṣatriyas. Otherwise, generally, the parents would select. We were married. Whatever our parents selected, we accepted. I did not like my wife, (laughs) but gradually, I was accustomed. I was obliged to like. That's all. (laughs) That is the Indian system. You like or not like, you have to accept it. That's all. The psychology is that the girls, generally, before attaining puberty if she loves one boy, she cannot forget him. That is her psychology.

Press Interview -- December 30, 1968, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: This conchshell sounding is considered auspicious. Yes. Actually it is conchshell sounding. So after offering prayer to the Lord, we bugle this conchshell.

Journalist: I guess I've really asked the main question. Not the main question, but the thing I want to know again was, again, why this, and about people like the Maharishi, which turned me off and so many people. My daughter was very involved in that kind of thing for awhile, and she's terribly disillusioned.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The psychology is that your people, all the western people, especially youngsters, they are hankering after something, you see? But the difficulty is... Just like me. If somebody comes, "Swamiji, initiate me." I immediately say that "You have to follow these four principles," and he goes away. And this Maharishi, he did not put any restriction, you see? Just like a physician, if he says that "You can do whatever you like. You simply take my medicine, you'll be cured." That physician will be very much liked. You see?

Journalist: Yes. He'll kill a lot of people, but he's very liked.

1971 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- August 15, 1971, London:

Prabhupāda: Children?

Śyāmasundara: Children should be allowed to have sex life at fourteen years old.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is psychological. They develop... Sex life, sex urge is there as soon as twelve years, thirteen years old, especially women. So therefore early marriage was sanctioned in India. Early marriage. Boy fifteen years, sixteen years, and girl twelve years. Not twelve years, ten years. I was married, my wife was eleven years. I was 22 years. She did not know what is sex, eleven years' girl. Because Indian girls, they have no such opportunity of mixing with others. But after the first menstruation, the husband is ready. This is the system, Indian system.

Śyāmasundara: So they are not spoiled.

Prabhupāda: No. And the psychology is the girl, after first menstruation, she enjoys sex life with a boy, she will never forget that boy. Her love for that boy is fixed up for good. This is woman's psychology. And she is allowed to have many, oh, she will never be chaste woman. These are the psychology. So these rascals, Westerners, they do not know and they are becoming philosopher, scientist, and politician, and spoiling the whole world. They can be saved only by this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. There is no other way. Otherwise they will lick up their skyscraper building and everything will go to hell. We have seen in New York, so many houses fall down. In New York. Yes. So many. Simply garbage. I have studied. Simply full of garbage. Nobody is going to take care. And the boys and girls loitering in the street as hippies. This is a very, very, bad sign. You see? No home, home neglected, no regular life. The whole nation will be spoiled. It is already spoiled. The poison is already there. Fire. Now it is increasing. Just like you set fire, it increases. So that fire is already there.

Room Conversation with Dr. Weir of the Mensa Society -- September 5, 1971, London:

Dr. Weir: Do you differentiate, as you would do, it's only a matter of attempting to comprehend the differences (indistinct) of things, the difference between thinking and feeling as rational functions?

Prabhupāda: That is the function of the mind, thinking, feeling and willing. Psychological activity.

Dr. Weir: Do you differentiate them separately?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Dr. Weir: And intuition as well?

Prabhupāda: Saṅkalpa, vikalpa. This is, in Sanskrit it is called saṅkalpa, vikalpa or accepting and rejecting. That is mind's function. I think something and again I reject it.

Dr. Weir: Well, you also react too.

Prabhupāda: You can say what you like but the function of the mind is flickering. Just like when Arjuna was advised by Kṛṣṇa to train the mind by meditation, by yoga system. He said that "Kṛṣṇa, it is very difficult for me." Cañcalaṁ hi manaḥ kṛṣṇa pramāthi balavad dṛḍham (BG 6.34). My mind is very, I mean to say, agitated. I think to control the mind is as impossible as controlling the wind. Cañcalaṁ hi manaḥ kṛṣṇa pramāthi ba..., vāyor iva suduṣkaram. And it is very difficult to (indistinct) high wind and if you want to control it, as it is impossible. Similarly I think the activities of the mind, thinking, feeling and willing, to control them is very difficult for me. So actually that is the position. So long we shall be on the mental platform there will be no fixity of conclusion. That is not possible. We have to accept something for the time being, then again reject it. Therefore all mental speculators differ. Nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na... A philosopher is not philosopher until he differs from other philosophers. Nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na... Unless you place a different thesis he will not be accepted as a good philosopher.

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Talk with Bob Cohen -- February 27-29, 1972, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Reduce it, just like a boy is trained up as a student up to twenty-five years, restricting sex life. Brahmacārī. So, some of the boys they remain naiṣṭhika-brahmacārī. He, because he's given education, so if he becomes fully conversant he doesn't like to marry. But one who has not such restraint, he's allowed to marry. That is also restricted, that he cannot have sex life without being married. Therefore in the human society there is marriage, not in the animal society. But we are reducing human society gradually to animal society. We are forgetting marriage. That is also written in the śāstras. Svīkāra eva codvāhe. In the Kali-yuga there will be no marriage performances, but the boy and the girl, they'll simply agree to live together. Dāmpatye 'bhirucir hetuḥ. And their relationship will exist on sexual power. If the man or the woman is deficient in sex life, then there is divorce. So on this philosophy... There are many western philosophers like Freud and others. They have written so many books. But according to Vedic culture, we are not interested. We are interested only for begetting children. That's all. Not to study the psychology of sex life. There is already psychology, pravṛtti, natural. Even if one does not read any philosophy, he'll be sexually inclined. There is no need of philosophizing sex life. Nobody is taught sex life in the school and the colleges, but everyone knows it, how to do it. (laughs) So pravṛttir eṣā bhūtānāṁ nivṛttis tu mahā-phalam. That is the general tendency. But education should be given to stop it. That is real education. (pause)

Bob: That, for today, is a radical concept, for nowadays.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Bob: Presently, in America that's a radical concept.

Room Conversation -- July 5, 1972, London:

Prabhupāda: His father is very rich man.

Sumati Morarjee: Is he?

Prabhupāda: His father is a very big lawyer, and mother, father, both came to me Calcutta. Mother, after all mother, she was crying, that give me back my boy (laughter) . You can take away your boy. So anyway, they are very good gentlemen. So, but he has he's graduate in psychology. He's learned.

Sumati Morarjee: No, no, he's a very nice man. So I asked him just now, I'm running a school. I said you come and, uh, give lecture, mean some stories...

Prabhupāda: Why don't you give some fruits?

Sumati Morarjee: ...to the children. No, I will take this, you give me a piece of paper, can you?

Prabhupāda: Yes, why not.

Sumati Morarjee: And I'll take this for the children.

Devotee: Isn't there some prasāda also, that's still out there in the...

Sumati Morarjee: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Śyāmasundara.

Śyāmasundara: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- October 25, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, you have done nice. No, one thing is that if you come to foreign countries, because you have got qualification, you can speak in educational institution. They will welcome you.

Indian man: I was once offered an exchange (indistinct) by the United States government.

Prabhupāda: When?

Indian man: That was in 1950. (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: When you were in service? (break) They come to see me. The one psychologist and psychiatrist came to see me in Los Angeles. And many scientists come. Some of them are my disciples.

Gurudāsa: Did you ever...

Prabhupāda: Dr. Rao you know?

Indian man: I know Dr. Rao.

Prabhupāda: He is a...

Indian man: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Yes, he is a scientist.

Indian man: He is a scientist or something. What's he doing now about that machine?

Gurudāsa: Have you ever continued the correspondence with that heart surgeon?

Prabhupāda: No.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Oh, it was nice. Very nice students were coming out.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: The moral standard was very good?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. We respected our professors like our fathers. The relationship between the student and the professors was very good. I had one Scottish professor, Dr. W.S. Urquhart. He was my nice friend. He was professor of philosophy, psychology. Later on he became vice-chancellor.

Brahmānanda:Calcutta?

Prabhupāda: Calcutta, yes. A very perfect gentleman. Kind-hearted. Sometimes we joked. We were taking this, what is called, peanuts. So the professor was passing. So some of our friends remarked: (Bengali) So he thought that professor did not know Bengali. So immediately he turned: (Bengali). So we became very much ashamed. Yes. So all the professors from foreign countries, they were instructed to learn Bengali language, local language. That was the system. All officers, big officers, educate... (Aside) Good morning. ...big educationists, they were to learn the local language. And they used to learn Bengali. Especially in Calcutta. There was one professor, Mr. Scrimgeour. He was professor of literature, English literature. So while teaching one English literature, he was giving parallel passage from Bankim Candra Chatterjee. Yes. "Your Bankim babu says like this." He used to say like that.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Oh, I see.

Prabhupāda: That means he studied Bankim literature. Bankim Candra Chatterjee was compared with Sir Walter Scott, of English literary men. Sir Walter Scott. In those days, Charles Dickens.

Morning Walk -- April 21, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Desire.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...desire.

Prabhupāda: He wanted a certain type of life. So nature gives him. "All right, take this body." He desires in a certain way, means he's associating with the quality of nature in a method, and according to that association, he's getting a particular type of body. Mind, mind is the creative force. Thinking. Thinking, feeling, willing. These are the psychological functions. So, first of all, thinking. Then he develops to work. And it is work you get a particular type of situation. (Break) One enters into the body of a pig. Then he'll have to go under the evolutionary process. Just like if you, if you are on the topmost staircase. Somehow or other you fall down. Then again you have to go, step by step. This is the... The steps are always there. Not that the steps are created for you. No. The steps are already there.

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, it is dirty.

Prabhupāda: It is loose. On account of hastiness, I could not properly set up.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Some birds, Śrīla Prabhupāda, like the minaḥ...?

Prabhupāda: Minaḥ, yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They can be taught to say something. So if they are taught to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa...,

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: ...then are this, this is a good service?

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: ...about animals not willing to die. Why? What is the psychology? Nobody wants to die.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They will ask: "How do I know that animals do not want to die?"

Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. As soon as you want to kill, it cries. Man or animal, anyone. Even the trees, they feel pain. That is also... You do not know that?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: No. They feel pain. You know Jagadisha Bose's pulsitation...? What is called?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Pulsation?

Prabhupāda: The trees feel when you cut, they feel. There is machine. They, he discovered this. You have not been in Calcutta, Sir Jagadish Institute?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Probably not.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He, he discovered this wireless, Marconi's. Marconi took advantage from him. They were talking together and when Marconi got the hint from him, he immediately published. it was his invention, Sir Jagadish. Therefore he invented this pulsation of the trees. and started the Sir Jagadish Institution in Calcutta. So there is painful feeling even of the trees, what to speak of others.

Morning Walk -- April 26, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Thinking is a natural...

Prabhupāda: Yes. You have got mind. You have got mind. Therefore you must think. But that thinking... Why there is psychology science? What do you think? Why do you go to school, college to learn psychology? To learn how to think. How thinking process is going on. There is education required, how to think correctly.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the subject matter of thinking...

Prabhupāda: The child is sent to school just for teaching him how to think correctly. Otherwise, what is the use of sending him to school? He can think at home. Why they are sent to school? To learn how to think. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa... (pause) This is thinking, when you question that: "I want to become happy. Why I am not happy?" This is thinking. Everyone wants to become happy, but nature's process is to obstruct his happiness. So one should think: "Why this is position? I want to live. Why, by laws of nature, I am put to death? I must die? This is against my wish, against my desire." This is thinking. So how to get out of it? This is real thinking. I don't want something, but something is forced upon me, and why it is so? When this "Why?" question will come to me, that is real thinking. Where is that thinking? These rascals, where is that thinking? How to check death, how to check disease, how to check old age. Where is that thinking? Where is that scientist? Who is making research how to stop death, who is making research how to stop disease? You can manufacture medicine for the disease, but you cannot check happening of disease. That is not possible. Why it is? That is thinking. I want something, but it is being obstructed by nature. Why it is so? This "Why?" question must have come. Then his thinking is proper. That is Kena-upaniṣad, Kena.

Morning Walk -- April 28, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, what they can do? Because they're rascal, foolish, just like children, they'll simply make their body dirty. That's all. He does not know anything. If you bring a small children, what they will do? They'll take this... You see. he does not know anything. He's a rascal. Similarly you scientists, you are all rascals. You do not know anything. Punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām (SB 7.5.30), chewing the chewed, making research. What research you can do? You do not know anything. What research you can do? And Vedic injunction is: yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati (Muṇḍaka Upaniṣad 1.3). If you know the Absolute Truth, then all other things become known. But you do not know what is Absolute Truth. Therefore you are in ignorance. If you know one thing, then you... Just like you are talking. We are not official scientists or philosopher or anything. But why you are challenging, you are talking so boldly? Because we know one thing, Kṛṣṇa. Therefore we can say so boldly and challenge anyone. I'm not a D.A.C. like you. How I can challenge you? I'm challenging you. How? Because I know Kṛṣṇa. That's all. That is the statement of Veda. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. If you know Kṛṣṇa, the Absolute Truth, then all other things will be known automatically. It is such a thing. We are preaching Kṛṣṇa consciousness, challenging all kinds of men in the society, so many scientists are coming, so many psychologists coming. So how we are confident to talk with him? Because we have learned little about Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Is it not? You are a qualified scientist. Why I challenge you? Not that because you are my disciple, you are accepting all my challenges. You have got your reasons. You are not a fool. So how it is possible? Practically, how it is possible? Because we are trying to know little about Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Therefore this Vedic injunction, yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati, yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. These statements are there. If you get Kṛṣṇa, then you will not hanker after any more profit.

Room Conversation -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Just like a śūdra, he cleans in the road for money. They are going as professor but the category is the same. You don't make any distinction between that sweeper and this professor. Or a hog and cat and dog. The hog is also working hard, whole day and night for stool, eating. So this man is also working like that. Beyond that he has no other knowledge.

Revatīnandana: The scientists, they have a term. Psychologists, they call it the idiot savant. The idiot savant means he's an idiot but he has one particular talent and because of that talent he can get along. Just like sometimes you find an idiot, he can look at a column of figures and he can compute the sum in his head very easily but he can't even understand how to tie his shoes. And I think these scholars are like that, they're actually idiots but they have one talent for Sanskrit or for history and because of that they can get along. They can support their body but otherwise they have no qualifications.

Prabhupāda: Śūdra. Unless he gets that post, he'll starve. He has got some talent in some particular subject but he must get some service. By serving others, he'll be able to utilize his talent and get some money, then he'll eat. This is śūdra's business. Dog's business. Just like a dog unless he has got a nice master, his position is very precarious. A street dog. Nobody will care neither it is (indistinct).

Yogeśvara: You point out in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that they go to school and learn to become Ph.D., then they have to knock on the door for a job and no one will open the door.

Prabhupāda: No vacancy, sir. So just like dog.

Room Conversation with David Wynne, Sculptor -- July 9, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: That is a rascal. These rascals say like that. Anyone who denies the existence of God, he is rascal number one. Immediately. And anyone, he may be a great scientist or philosopher, let him come. If he says that "I don't believe in God," then I shall prove that "You are rascal number one." That I shall prove.

Śyāmasundara: We'll bring you some scientists.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So many scientists, psychologists, philosophers came to me.

David Wynne: But the greatest scientists have..., are the humblest.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is real knowledge, when one becomes humbler: "Oh, God is so great." That is real scientist. I think Professor Einstein, he admitted.

Mukunda: Yes, he said that "I want to know how God created the universe. Everything else is details."

Prabhupāda: Yes. So that means he's still thinking, "My knowledge is imperfect because I do not know about God." That is real scientist.

Śyāmasundara: Just studying one small part of God's creation...

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.

Śyāmasundara: ...is, is...

Room Conversation with Educationists -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: And so... Real intelligence is that to know "what I am." "I do not want to suffer. Why suffering in this world is imposed upon me?" This is intelligence. Take, for example, nobody wants to die. Why death is forced upon him? Nobody wants to die. If there is now news immediately, "Now this house will collapse," immediately we shall fly away. Because we don't want to die. If we understand that this house is going to be bombed immediately, we'll immediately leave. If there is earthquake... So many things. So nobody wants to die. But death is sure. So what solution they have made? I do not want to die, and death is forced upon me. So what solution we have made. What is, what is the scientists have done in this connection? Psychologically, if I do not want to die, then I must find out some way that death will not bother me. That is intelligence. You are talking of intelligence. Therefore I am explaining what is intelligence. Intelligence means "I do not want something, but it is being forced upon me. How to check it?" That is intelligence. Actually, the whole world is going on, we do not want to suffer. But suffering is there. Three kinds of suffering. One kind of suffering is called pertaining to the body and mind. I don't want to be diseased, but there is, all of a sudden, there is disease. Diarrhea. I don't want it, but it is imposed. This is suffering. Due to the body. Some discrepancies. Mind... Body's sound, but mind is not sound. Mind is "Oh, I don't feel today very nice." You see. This is one kind of suffering. Another suffering: other living creature gives you some pains. There are so many. Some of your friends, he turns to become your enemy. He puts you in difficulty. Or there are so many animals, so many insects. They give us trouble. This is one kind of suffering. Another kind of suffering: by nature's... All of sudden, there is drought. Now, just like, all, in India there is drought. They are suffering. No rain. All of a sudden there is earthquake. That is also suffering. There is some epidemic, pestilence. You cannot check it. So in this way, either of these three, sufferings going on. But those who are sleeping, they cannot understand that this is suffering. Just like animals. They cannot understand. That is sleeping stage.

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

David Lawrence: Because there isn't the (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: Now, there is psychology. There is philosophy.

David Lawrence: Yes, indeed.

Prabhupāda: Everything is there. And religion without philosophy is sentiment. And philosophy without religion is mental speculation. Two things must be combined.

David Lawrence: Yes, yes.

Prabhupāda: That is Bhagavad-gītā. Yes.

Śrutakīrti: "For the soul there is never birth or death"?

Prabhupāda: Hm? First of all find out the verse.

Śrutakīrti: Na jāyate...

Prabhupāda: Read it. Read it.

Śrutakīrti: Na jāyate mriyate vā kadācin.

Prabhupāda: Let him.

Garden Conversation with Mahadeva's Mother and Jesuit Priest -- July 25, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: ... that innocent... That... That's all right.

Revatīnandana: Rational? Animals have got rationality.

Jesuit Priest: No they haven't. Omnia animalia intelectu carent.(?) (Latin)

Revatīnandana: Even your...

Jesuit Priest: This is bringing out exactly...

Revatīnandana: Even your own psychologists will display to you rational life in the monkeys.

Jesuit Priest: No, no.

Revatīnandana: And so many other animals. Rats.

Jesuit Priest: No.

Revatīnandana: They make rational decisions.

Jesuit Priest: No they don't.

Revatīnandana: Oh?

Jesuit Priest: Well, I mean it's been accepted. ...

Revatīnandana: Your own psychologists will display that to you.

Jesuit Priest: Well, all I can say is it's been accepted in the teaching of not many western philosophers...

Revatīnandana: Not eastern philosophers.

Room Conversation with Mister Popworth and E. F. Schumacher -- July 26, 1973, London:

Revatīnandana: See, the habits are one thing. If we understand that it is an undesirable habit, they can be changed. All of us are from meat-eating backgrounds, almost without exception. We've all strictly stopped. We've stopped taking intoxicants. We've stopped gambling and we've stopped illicit sex life, although we were habituated to doing these things, because we came to understand that it was necessary for the advancement of our spiritual life. But the difficulty is that somebody who is so much engrossed in this kind of life, who has made it a pillar of his life, and that by the psychological effect of such habits, he comes to the stage of being so stony-hearted that he does not see the miserable suffering he's putting the animals to unnecessarily. He has no sense for it. Even if it's graphically described to him... I described it to this monk about how conscious the cow is compared to, say, the cauliflower. He couldn't see any difference. No distinction.

Popworth: I'm sorry. Distinction between what?

Revatīnandana: The distinction between killing a cow and cutting off a cauliflower from a plant. He said, "Both are alive." Yes, both are alive. But what is the psychological state of a cow, and what is the psychological state of a cauliflower plant? Practically speaking, he has no psychology. No senses, no mind, no ability to feel elation or suffering. But a cow is a completely different condition. Cow is very nearly to human consciousness. Practically the next birth after a cow, according to the Vedas, is a human birth. So you're putting so much suffering unnecessarily. But he had no sense, not... An intelligent man who can sense that "If I suffer, I don't like it," then when he sees another living entity put into suffering, he thinks, "How I could avoid that suffering for that living entity, because I don't like to suffer." But this gentleman had no conception. He's...

Prabhupāda: There is one moral instruction by Cāṇakya Paṇḍita. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita was a great minister during the time of Mahārāja Candragupta. So he was honorary Prime Minister in the empire. So he has a book of moral instruction. So he says in that moral instruction, who is a learned man. So he gives the description of a learned man, that: mātṛvat para-dāreṣu. Mātṛvat. "Just treat all other women except your wife as your mother." Mātṛvat para-dāreṣu, para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat. Loṣṭa means as there are so many pebbles lying on the street, you don't care for it, similarly, others' property, others' money you should treat just like these pebbles lying on the street or the garbage lying on the street. Don't touch it. So mātṛvat para-dāreṣu para-dravyeṣu loṣṭravat, ātmavat sarva-bhūteṣu.

Room Conversation -- August 11, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Then? It is a common sense affair. The God has given you independence. If you do something wrong, against the will of God, then you must suffer. Therefore we find so many varieties of living entities. In different grades of life. That is due to misuse of independence.

Yogeśvara: Very popular today is the idea that if we are use, misusing our independence, it's because of our upbringing, our childhood, our society, something is wrong in our psychology. Not that it's the soul, not that it's a question of spiritual problem, but material one, that our parents were cruel or our society, our education was imperfect or something. But not spiritual problem.

Prabhupāda: So that is independence. Your parents were cruel. Therefore you have revolted against the parents. That is your independence. Why you revolted against parents? Because you have got the independence.

Devotee: What shall we say to someone, Prabhupāda...

Prabhupāda: Otherwise, if you are doing stereotyping, then in spite of your father being cruel, you would not declare independence and go away from home. Because you have got this independence, therefore you can understand that: "Why shall I obey this father? I go out." That is independence. They do not understand the meaning of independence.

Haṁsadūta: Because they've lost their independence.

Prabhupāda: Hmmm?

Haṁsadūta: Because they've lost their independence.

Room Conversation with Rosicrucians -- August 13, 1973, Paris:

Prabhupāda: But you tell me, what is that process?

Yogeśvara: Well, "meditation number three" is to... (break) He says he would like to talk to you a little bit about a book he is reading which describes how the Russians have just discovered the soul. They have photographed the soul, he says,...

French guest devotee: No, no, the aura.

Yogeśvara: ...how they have, the Russians have found the soul and they have described all the different phenomena of para-psychology and extra sensory perception, and he said it's an incredible book, and the Russians have made great discoveries. He hasn't finished the book yet.

Prabhupāda: That is Russians. I am asking him about his...

Yogeśvara: He says that the Rosicrucians they know what is the duty of human life.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Yogeśvara: The destiny of human life.

Guru-gaurāṅga: ...the soul is a state, of crystik consciousness, Nirvāṇa, call it what you will.

Prabhupāda: That cannot be described.

Guru-gaurāṅga: ...with an understanding that is a million times beyond our understanding.

Prabhupāda: If it is beyond understanding, how can I accept it? (break)

Guru-gaurāṅga: ...understanding, and it is translated onto the objective level.

Prabhupāda: If I do not understand whom to love, how can I learn?

Room Conversation with Officer Harry Edwards, the Village Policeman -- August 30, 1973, Bhaktivedanta Manor, London:

Prabhupāda: By chanting your name... (laughter)

Harry: Oh, there you are, there you are, yes. This is it. They are chanting my name, you know. Yeah. 'Cause when I ring up the station.

Prabhupāda: So when somebody's disturbed, he can say, "I'm calling Mr. Harry."(laughter).

Harry: You see, when I ring up the station in the morning, you see, say, "Ah, Hare Kṛṣṇa." I say: "Hare Kṛṣṇa to you." (laughter) So I mean some way or other, you're doing what you're asking to do, aren't you? Psychologically.

Śyāmasundara: Everyone's being forced to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Harry: Yeah... But I think these, you know, and I know, of course, you know, I've...

Prabhupāda: The people chant Hare Kṛṣṇa by seeing us. Yes. All over the world.

Harry: Yes. They say to me, Harry Edwards, you see, or Hare...

Śyāmasundara: Yes.

Harry: So therefore, really and truly, if you look at it psychologically, you've achieved your object without them knowing.

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) Yes. Yes.

Harry: Is that right?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Revatīnandana: Yes, this is why we dress this way. Every time we go on the street, everybody on the street says, "There's one of the Hare Kṛṣṇa people." He says "Hare Kṛṣṇa" one time.

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Banker: Well, there are metaphysics departments in almost every university.

Prabhupāda: Metaphysics department is there. I was also a student of philosophy. That is theories only. Of course, they are trying, psychology, metaphysics, ethics. You were also a student of philosophy?

Banker: I took some courses. My major courses were in business. But I took some in philosophy, ethic, logic.

Prabhupāda: So apart from that metaphysical, from this worldly platform, there must be divisions. Just like in your bank, if everyone is manager, that is not possible. There must be clerks and other assistants. So that is required. The society must be divided into four classes. That is brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra.

Banker: My question is how does one determine into which part he goes?

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is by tendency. Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ (BG 4.13). By the tendency. Therefore one has to approach the spiritual master. He will give direction that "This boy is meant for becoming a brāhmaṇa." Everyone has got some tendency. From the tendency it should be designated. Or by work.

Lady: But originally it wasn't like that. Suppose if you are born into brāhmaṇa, fortunately, then you become brāhmaṇa.

Prabhupāda: No, no, that is not. No, no, no. No, that is not śāstra. That is a... Lately, this brahminical class, they made it. Just like he is a manager in the bank. His son does not mean that he is also manager. He must be qualified to become a manager. He has got the facility. Because he is son of a bank manager, so he can get some facilities, father's training. He can quickly become a manager. Others may take time. Similarly, a person born in brāhmaṇa family, if his father is actually brāhmaṇa, then automatically he is getting the brahminical training at home. This satya, śama, dama, titikṣā, ārjavam (BG 18.42), this qualification. Because naturally the children follow the father. So if the father is a real brāhmaṇa, then he naturally becomes. But if by chance he develops the śūdra quality, then he must be accepted as śūdra, not as a brāhmaṇa. That is the śāstra. Yad anyatrāpi dṛśyeta tat tenaiva vinirdiśet (SB 7.11.35).

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The Russian Revolution.

Prabhupāda: Seventy. Seventy. Yes, no, we were student at that time. So what they have done? They are changing, changing, changing. And I went to Moscow, I saw the people were not happy. There are so many things that is against one's psychological understanding. So many things. Therefore now they are going to hold some peace conference. Who told me? Oh, yes, Haṁsadūta. So without God consciousness, there cannot be any peace. That's a fact. Therefore our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is there. Tomorrow, when you are going?

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Me? Tomorrow night. I'll come here tomorrow also.

Prabhupāda: Yes, I will give you some letters for Bali Mardana.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Bali Mardana? (break)

Brahmānanda: At MIT. At other colleges I was present.

Prabhupāda: So that very time so I first of all asked the students, "Where is your technological department to find out the thing when a man is dead, and you replace it?" These were my subject matter. I talked. A man is working. (Aside:) come on. A man is working. All of a sudden he stops to work. So a motor car is working. All of a sudden it stops. So there are technologists who can repair the car and it will again start. That is technology. Now the man is working, stopped. So where is that technology to make it move again. That was... I spoke on this. So they very much appreciated. After my lecture they gathered round me. You remember that? No.

Gargamuni: I wasn't there.

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Karandhara: They don't even talk about God, transcendental meditation.

Satsvarūpa: Creative Intelligence.

Bali Mardana: Psychological.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hṛdayānanda: The intelligent students know they're cheaters.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But it has been accepted all over the country.

Hṛdayānanda: Not by the intelligent.

Bali Mardana: They're tricking the government.

Prabhupāda: Not... I don't accept. We don't accept. Why do they say "all over the country"?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No, I mean in schools, in colleges.

Prabhupāda: No.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They have departments.

Prabhupāda: They why they are complaining?

Hṛdayānanda: The intelligent students all criticize it. Many, many people criticize it.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I saw a big pamphlet.

Bali Mardana: They've made...

Prabhupāda: What is that meditation?

Morning Walk -- December 6, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Prajāpati: So they don't want to find out really what God is, but simply what do you mean when you use the word "God".

Prabhupāda: We mean God is great. That's all. There is no need of linguistic analysis. One word is sufficient. God is great.

Karandhara: They would say the psychology of that is that you're suffering from an inferiority complex.

Prabhupāda: Eh. You are inferior. You are being kicked every moment by the laws of nature. How do you claim that you are superior? Why you are covering? Because you are kicked by the laws of material nature.

Umāpati: There's no complex.

Prabhupāda: There is no question... You have to cover yourself.

Bali Mardana: They say that...

Prabhupāda: How do you say you are superior? You are inferior. As soon as you cover your body, you are inferior.

Karandhara: They say, "Well, we, I made this hat. So whatever inferiorities I have, I can conquer them by my intelligence."

Prabhupāda: But that intelligence, superior intelligence will never come to you. You'll always remain inferior.

Hṛdayānanda: What about death?

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are always inferior.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: They will prolong death.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: They trust the doctors, Śrīla Prabhupāda, the medical men.

Prabhupāda: Whatever... His fault is that "I can restrict. I will not have sex life unless it is needed for begetting children."

Prajāpati: The psychologists say it is unhealthy to go without sex life. The men these people trust, the psychologists, psychiatrists, say it is unhealthy.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also, we know. But there is a process. Just like brahmacārī process is there, sannyāsī process is there. So if you adopt the process, you can restrict. (break)

Prajāpati: ...told Śrīla Prabhupāda, that it was published in a nationwide magazine. They showed that where people's trust was. They weren't trusting anything very much, but they trusted the medical people number one, and organized religion as such was way, way down, number eight or so. Why are people trusting the doctors so much?

Prabhupāda: Because they are under this impression the doctors are scientifically advanced. But the doctors' science is also imperfect. Because they do not know what is the soul. They do not believe in soul.

Karandhara: They trust the doctors the first, and they trust television the second.

Prabhupāda: Television.

Karandhara: Whatever they see on television, they accept.

Morning Walk -- December 15, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, yes. That is the duty of the physician. If somebody comes, patient: "Sir, I am suffering like this." "All right, don't be sorry. Sit down. I will give you medicine." (break)

Prajāpati: ...what these rascal philosophers do, psychologists and scientists, they say the things that are very sinful actually, that Kṛṣṇa says and the Bible and all of scriptures say are sinful, they say, "That's all right. You may do those things." Not only do they deny God's existence, but they say that which is sinful is actually good for you: "Yes. You must have intoxication, take illicit sex life," like that.

Prabhupāda: No good man will say like that. That is the difference between good man and bad man. The same example as I told, that one blind man is going this side, and another man says, "Yes, you are all right. Go this side." This is going on. Either he does not know, this rascal who says, "Yes, you can go this side," that he will fall down in the ocean and die... Both of them do not know. So one blind man, andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ (SB 7.5.31). One blind man is giving direction to another blind man. This is going on. Therefore Vedic injunction is to take direction: "You must go to guru." That is in... Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). Gurum eva, "Must go." Then he will get right direction. Otherwise misguided. (break)

Candanācārya: ...there must have been very many gurus. Were there many gurus then?

Prabhupāda: When? Guru or... First of all, try to understand what is the meaning of guru. Guru means heavy. So one who knows more than you, or one who knows perfectly, that, he is guru. So if you know anything perfectly, then you are guru. But if you do not know anything perfectly, then you are not a guru. You are rascal. So guru means one who knows perfectly. So if you find out somebody, that he knows everything perfectly, then he is guru. That is the first prayer of Gurvaṣṭaka. Saṁsāra-dāvānala-līḍha-loka-trāṇāya kāruṇya-ghanāghanatvam **. Everyone is in the blazing fire of this material existence. It is just like forest fire. Just like if there is fire in the forest, all the inhabitants of forest, all the animals, they become so much in perturbed condition.

Morning Walk -- December 18, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Because his eyes have no value without hearing from the authority. These are the general psychology. He has got eyes. Let him be educated at home. Why he is sent to school? Let him see everything. How these rascals say like that, I am surprised. "I cannot see in my eyes." You cannot see in your eyes what was the length and breadth of your body in the mother's womb. But does it mean that you did not exist in the mother's womb? You cannot see who is your father. How do you believe that this is my father? Is that depending on your eyes? Then what is the value of your eyes? Why these rascals say that "I do not see." These things prove that they are rascals.

Girirāja: Most of the things in their theories they also have not seen.

Prabhupāda: They have so many things. They simply speak like rascals. Therefore our conclusion is: Anyone who does not know what is God, he is a rascal. That is perfection of knowledge. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). These rascals, they do not know that all knowledge is imperfect unless he comes to the platform of knowing God. All knowledge imperfect. And that is confirmed in the Bhagavad..., bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate: (BG 7.19) "When he (is) actually wise in knowledge, then he surrenders to God." That is knowledge. That is knowledge. One who has surrendered to God, one who has known God, one who is abiding by the order of God, he is the perfect man. All others, they are rascals.

Prajāpati: After hearing such nice information about God, I think some sincere men might come forward and say...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Any gentleman, any sincere man, must accept this proposition. It is so logical.

Morning Walk -- December 31, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes. God consciousness. Then everyone will be honest, and everything will be adjusted. Everyone can understand this is pure cheating. I give you a hundred dollars, a piece of paper. That's all. And you accept it. You want to be cheated. You thought, that "I have got now daily, hundred dollars. So let me work very hard." He does not consider that "I am not getting a hundred dollars. I am getting a piece of paper." So people have no brain to understand even. "This is not hundred dollars. Give me cash, hundred dollars." Then everything, solution will be... There will be no inflation. Because I know that paying you a piece of paper, I can cheat you, therefore I am printing notes, to cheat so many people. Therefore inflation. But when there will be no possibility to cheat you, then there will be no inflation. Here I have got the opportunity, because I know that pushing forward a piece of paper, I can cheat so many people. So there must be inflation. Is it not? This is not psychological? If I know that I can cheat you by this instrument, so why shall I not increase that? That is inflation. What do you think, Karandhara?

Karandhara: That's the basic principle, yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. I am cheating you, and people accepting my cheating.

Karandhara: The governments actually started the whole thing. They instituted paper money and they instituted it because it is a cheating process. But everyone is participating. So it is just going on and on. That is the real cause of inflation.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That's it. They are getting encouragement in their cheating business.

Bahulāśva: They won't let you have any gold.

Prabhupāda: Now they have made law that you cannot store gold?

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 5, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: They make it zero. Therefore, closing the eye. "There is no next life. Finished. There is no next life." In that way they're satisfied. Just like the rabbit. There is danger, enemy, he closes his eyes. He thinks there is no danger. (devotees laugh) So these rascals are like that. Because they cannot accommodate that this life is so troublesome, again, next life... So that they can realize. Next life means again troublesome; that's why they sometimes commit suicide. They think that after suicide it will be zero, so no trouble. These are all ignorance.

Karandhara: In psychology that's called repression.

Prabhupāda: Repression.

Karandhara: Taking something which is a fact, but refusing to believe it, pushing it out of your mind, repressing it.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bali Mardana: There is a philosophy called Stoicism. They believe they... This life is meant to suffer, so they should just become very sturdy to suffer a great deal.

Prabhupāda: So sturdy or not sturdy, you have to suffer. How you can check? We cannot change by simply... Becoming sturdy...

Bali Mardana: No, stoic.

Prabhupāda: Ah. What is that?

Bali Mardana: It's a philosophy, a school of philosophy, stoic.

Morning Walk -- March 23, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Bhava-bhūti: Also, Prabhupāda, there was one report that the Red Cross, seventy-five percent of the money collected went on advertising.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Dr. Patel: America is living on advertisement. Right or wrong? I have been studying American, I mean, psychology.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That I understand.

Dr. Patel: Psychology.

Prabhupāda: That I understand.

Dr. Patel: And they really are purely running away without... They have no peace of mind.(break)

Prabhupāda: The other day one American devotee, he said, "Sir, I see..." He first came, "I see the poorest man here is happier than the richest man in my country." He said like that.

Dr. Patel: Because they have got no peace of mind.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: And every...

Prabhupāda: And that is... (break)

Dr. Patel: This, any act of competition is a sin and a violence against...

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, so now the study, first study, begins from material point of view: Wherefrom the sky came? How the sky came into existence? First of all sky. Then, from sky, there is sound. Then, from sound there is air. From air, there is... Along with these creations... the sky creation means the air creation also, the reception of the sound. So in this way it is all described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam very nicely, how creation took place. Then, ultimately, we come to the land, where all the qualities of other elements are there. There is sound. There is touch. There is vision. There is smell. Everything is there. So... And the subtle matters. Mind, citta, intelligence, then buddh... intelligence. Then false ego. This is... At the present moment, everyone is thinking in the bodily concept of life: "I am American." "I am Indian." "I am brāhmaṇa." "I am kṣatriya." This is false ego. He's not, neither of them. Because he's spirit soul, a different identity. So these, how the subtle mind, intelligence, are working, one should know. How transmigration of the soul takes place? By the action of mind, intelligence and ego. They do not know. There is no such science. There are so many universities all over the world. But who is studying all these things? The psychologists, they have studied a little more about thinking, feeling and willing. That's all. But they do not know how he is working, how he is carrying the subtle soul to other body. That they do not know.

Mr. Sar: Apareyam itas tu...

Guest (2): Why do you not explain that?

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Guest (2): Why do you not explain that about subtle being carried forward?

Morning Walk -- April 5, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He is a rascal, not guru. Rascal cannot be guru. You cannot add this. Then they are the same, daridra-nārāyaṇa. Nārāyaṇa cannot be daridra; daridra cannot be Nārāyaṇa. Similarly, rascal cannot be guru, and guru is not rascal. So this is a question. I am inquiring from you. Why people accept this imitation?

Satsvarūpa: They want to be cheated?

Prabhupāda: No, they don't want to be cheated, but... Of course, they are cheated. What is the psychology of accepting imitation false god? I am asking you. You, doctor sir.

Dr. Patel: I have no answer.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So this is going on. Why you should imitate?

Dr. Patel: He has got the answer.

Prabhupāda: Yes, answer.

Yaśomatīnandana: Because they are less intelligent.

Dr. Patel: He is more intelligent.

Prabhupāda: Yes, he has accepted Kṛṣṇa. Therefore he is more intelligent than these rascals. Yes. He has accepted the original. He is not going to accept any false imitation. Therefore he is intelligent, more intelligent.

Dr. Patel: Shall I go ahead?

Morning Walk -- April 7, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: They do not know.

Girirāja: "This body is exactly like one of the bodies which we always see in dreams. During our dream of sleep we create so many bodies according to mental creation." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...the psychologically whatever mental condition we prepare throughout this life, that means you are preparing next life, and in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, yaṁ yaṁ vāpi smaran bhāvam tyajanty ante kalevaram (BG 8.6). The situation of the mind at the time of death will carry you to the similar body. Just like one who likes to eat some special foodstuff, so... Suppose the meat-eaters... So the mentality is "How to eat meat, how to eat meat." So they are given next life the canine teeth to give facility for eating meat. Canine teeth means dogs, cats, tigers, like that.

Girirāja: "Unless we have a particular type of body, we cannot enjoy or suffer according to our mental proclivities inherited from the previous life." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...another example. Asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. It is said that this living entity is untouched by this material body. Asaṅgo 'yaṁ puruṣaḥ. So the example is given that the moon reflected on water appears to be moving, but moon is separate from that movement. (Hindi) Go on. (Hindi) (break) ...good example. Unnecessarily he thinks that "I belong to this country, I belong to this society." That means he creates another body. And if he knows perfectly well that "I do not belong to any of these bodies," that is brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). That teaching required, that every being is unattached to this body. Therefore yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape... Anyone who is maintaining himself under bodily concept of life, he is no better than the animals. (break) The demonic person does not accept any good lesson. Mūrkhāyopadeṣo hi prakopāya na śāntaye. Because he is foolish, if you give him good advice, he will be angry. Still, we have to do that.

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. One who has no qualification, he says, because he could not see somebody, he sees, "There is no such existence." Is that a good conclusion?

Indian Man (1): Good psychology.

Prabhupāda: He is a rascal. He is not fit to be seen by the great personality. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ (BG 7.25). You cannot see the sun-god. Does it mean there is no sun-god? What is the value of your eyes? It is imperfect. You are seeing the sun just like a disc, but it is fourteen hundred thousands of times bigger than this earth. Can you see it? Then what is the power of your seeing? Whatever you are seeing, that is defective. So don't be proud of seeing. What is your eyes? What is the value of your eyes? You cannot see even the eyelid. Can you see the eyelid? Although it is attached to your eyeball. So what is the power? Why you are so much proud of seeing? First of all, understand that "I am so defective, I cannot see perfectly, properly." And you want to see God with these defective eyes?

Indian Man (2): Arjuna also says that he cannot see God. He saw the light only.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He was speaking with Kṛṣṇa. Still, he said that "I cannot see You." That is a fact. (break) Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). If you have got qualified eyes, you can see Kṛṣṇa always, twenty-four hours. So we have to qualify, purify. Sarvopādhi-vinir... You are seeing. You are trying to see God as American, as Indian, as this and that. With that eyes you cannot see. When you are neither American nor Indian nor brāhmaṇa nor śūdra, you are pure spirit, then you can see. They want to remain with this designation-body and want to see God. That is not possible. To enter fire you have to become fire. Otherwise, it will be not possible to enter fire. So without Brahman realization, you cannot understand what is Kṛṣṇa. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54). (break) ...is the same. Quality, it is same. It is salt, salty. And the whole ocean is also salty. That is tat tvam asi. "You are also salty," if I say. If the drop of the water, I say that "This is also salty," that is tat tvam asi. Not that he has become the whole sea. This is rascaldom. (break) ...God create another ocean in the sky. Then you are God. When there is some tooth pain, you go to the doctor, and you are God. Just see how much nonsense they are. As soon as there is tooth pain, "Oh, oh. Just now I am not God, I am patient." So these things are going on. I have seen so many gods. I have seen one that Dr. Misra. When he had a toothache, "Ohhh, oh." You see? (break) ...cheap philosophy, by misunderstanding the whole world has become atheists, all rascals. Atheist means rascal number one, mūḍhāḥ, āsuriṁ bhāvam āśritāḥ. As soon as one becomes atheist, he is rascal number one. (break)

Morning Walk -- April 12, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: This is bhakti, simply to abide by the orders of Kṛṣṇa, fully engaged. Ānukūlyena, favorable, as Kṛṣṇa wanted Arjuna, "You fight!" So he did not like to fight. He was non-violent, so-called. But Kṛṣṇa wants. Kṛṣṇa wants, ānukūlyena. Kṛṣṇa must be satisfied. It doesn't matter whether I am satisfied or not. But here things are going that "Kṛṣṇa, we don't care. If Your instruction does not appeal to me, to my sense satisfaction, I don't like it." This is going on. Nobody likes to satisfy Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ (BG 18.66). Nobody is prepared to that. "If Kṛṣṇa satisfies my whims, then I accept Kṛṣṇa." This is going on. That is not bhakti. Ānukūlyena kṛṣṇānu-śīlanaṁ (CC Madhya 19.167). Simply you have to abide by the orders of Kṛṣṇa. That is called bhakti. (break) ...in devotional service. Without devotional service, all activities, they are false, simply just like jumping like the monkey. What is the value? The monkey is always busy, but his business has no value. His business has no value. Therefore as soon as one monkey..., "Get out! Get out! Get out! Get out!" But he is always busy. So to become busy like a monkey has no value. To busy, to become busy as a devotee, that has value. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The Māyāvādī philosophy is that "This business is useless, so stop it altogether." No. That is negation. If you stop... Just like a child, if you stop playing mischief, always doing, then he will be mad, psychologically. You must give him some engagement, better engagement, so that he will not commit any more mischief. So bhakti is a service, activity. If he is not engaged in activity, then he will become again a rascal. Because we are living entities. We are not dead stone. That is bhakti. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ tat-paratvena nirmalam, hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ (CC Madhya 19.170). Engage, hṛṣīka means the senses. The senses must be engaged. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ. Now the senses are engaged for my sense gratification. So it should be purified, no more sense gratification. But the senses must have engagement. And how? That is in the service of the Lord. That is real activity. So bhakti is not that it is simply negation. There must be positive action. That is bhakti. (break)

Room Conversation with Richard Webster, chairman, Societa Filosofica Italiana -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) pictures.

Richard Webster: It's much easier. They're producing more television sets (indistinct)

Yogeśvara: It's a great science. My mother is an executive in a public relations firm. Her business is to show products, goods, to people that otherwise they have no need for and to convince them that there is some value. It's a very big industry, especially in the United States, public relations, advertising. It's very psychological too. They use all kinds of psychological techniques for inducing people to take things they have no need for.

Prabhupāda: All right but thing is that after all our prime necessity is food. So why people are not engaged to produce food?

Richard Webster: Well, in Italy they don't like to work on the land any more. They all want to live in town.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the defect. That is the defect.

Richard Webster: Especially in Italy.

Prabhupāda: You do not want to live in the village, farm. In your country I am seeing. America, the farmer's son, they are leaving. They are not coming back to the country. In India also.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Cities have become centers for sense gratification.

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Atreya Ṛṣi: And it attracts...

Morning Walk -- May 29, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: There cannot be. How a man and woman can be equal? The woman has to give birth, she has to become pregnant. Why the man cannot be pregnant. Why? Why this inequality? To take care of the child, to become pregnant, so much responsibility, the man does not take, especially in this country. He impregnates one girl, and he goes away. And all the responsibility is for the girl. Therefore he (she) wants to get rid of it. He (She) takes the course of abortion. Kill it. This is the psychology. Where is equality? You put her into inconvenient position, and she commits another sin. She is obliged. Where is equality? And you go away. So this rascaldom philosophy may go on. We have got answer for all the rascals. They are all rascals.

Haihaya: The communists, they kicked us from the university in Mexico, because we were always defeat there in the philosophy. It is very easy to defeat communists with this philosophy.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We have to do. There may be opposition, but what can be done? We have to speak the resu..., that "There cannot be equality sir. You are talking nonsense." Challenge them, and let them prove that "Here is equality." Where is equality? Where is equality? You are human being. You are trying to live very comfortably. Why don't you make comfortable life for other living entities? Why you are sending them to the slaughterhouse? Where is equality?

Haihaya: If we have a world day every month, fasting world day. If we can fast, all the world can fast, all inhabitants of the world...

Room Conversation with Monsieur Roost, Hatha-yogi -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: (coughing) Water, little.

M. Roost: To make the problem very, very clear and by fight with arm, sword, is to see what people is able to do in front of the death. Master is coming with an assam, (a sword) and he makes like he will kill the disciple, and disciple must learn to be calm in front of the death. It is so... We can say it's a practice, a psychological practice to...

Prabhupāda: No, why the master will kill the disciple? What is this practice?

M. Roost: No, he don't kill, but he makes like he will kill, but he don't kill. Of course not.

Prabhupāda: That is another...

M. Roost: But it's like a game, we can say, to learn little by little to be the master of our ego, and finally to go through the ego. And I think it's a way, very interesting. But...

Prabhupāda: That is automatically taught in bhakti-yoga. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. It is said, "If you can keep your master pleased, then God will be pleased." Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. And if you make your master displeased, then you are nowhere. These are the teachings of bhakti-yoga. But if the master is such a rascal that if he asks the disciple that "You please me with sex life," then what kind of master he is? Sex life is so strong. In the school, colleges, the teachers having sex life with the students. And yogic process, aṣṭāṅga-yoga, first is saṁyama. Yama, niyama, āsana, prāṇāyāma, pratyāhāra, samādhi, like that. This is against this principle of yama, niyama.

M. Roost: Yes, and first is...

Morning Walk -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because all these so-called Bhagavad-gītā commentaries written by rascals, that's all. They are all rascals. They cannot understand what is Bhagavad-gītā. The MacMillan Company's trade manager has admitted that while others Bhagavad-gītā is selling less, this is increasing. (pause)

Yogeśvara: So I prepared one argument this morning.

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Yogeśvara: There's a theory of the psychologists that—in some ways it's similar to our idea—that people are conditioned, that according to their environment, according to their upbringing, according to their parentage and so on, they have a kind of way of acting and thinking. So their argument is that Kṛṣṇa consciousness is just another kind of conditioning, that you leave one kind of conditioning, a material conditioning, but then you also enter into another kind of conditioning when you live in the temple.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is conditioning, certainly. The position is that you must be under certain condition. That is your position. So if you become conditioned by God, that is your perfection. And if you become conditioned by māyā, that is your trouble. You must be conditioned. That is your position. You cannot be independent. And therefore, if you become naturally conditioned, then that is your happy life. Just as child, he must be conditioned. But when he is conditioned by his parents, that is his perfection of life. Your position is that you must be conditioned. Why you are thinking to be independent? That is your rascaldom. You should always know that "I must be conditioned. That is my life." Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ (BG 9.13). Condition. Still conditioned, but daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ, under the spiritual nature. That is Mahātmā. Mahātmā is not independent. He is also conditioned. So first of all, we must understand that our natural position is to be conditioned. Now, why, where I shall be conditioned? Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). You condition here. "You become conditioned by Me. Then you will be happy." Those who are thinking that "We shall not be conditioned," they are still in māyā. You cannot be without condition.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: So if you have got scientific knowledge, you scientifically explain that God is the original source. Then your knowledge is perfect. What is the purport?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Human intellect is developed for advancement of learning in art, science, philosophy, physics, chemistry, psychology, economics, politics, etc. By culture of such knowledge the human society can attain perfection of life. This perfection of life culminates in the realization of the Supreme Being, Viṣṇu. The śruti therefore directs that those who are actually advanced in learning should aspire for the service of Lord Viṣṇu. Unfortunately persons who are enamored by the external beauty of viṣṇu-māyā do not understand that culmination of perfection or self-realization depends on Viṣṇu. Viṣṇu-māyā means sense enjoyment, which is transient and miserable. Those who are entrapped by viṣṇu-māyā utilize advancement of knowledge for sense enjoyment. Śrī Nārada Muni has explained that all paraphernalia of the cosmic universe is but an emanation from the Lord out of His different energies because the Lord has set in motion, by His inconceivable energy, the actions and reactions of the created manifestation. They have come to be out of His energy, they rest on His energy, and after annihilation they merge into Him. Nothing is, therefore, different from Him, but at the same time the Lord is always different from them.

When advancement of knowledge is applied in the service of the Lord, the whole process becomes absolute. The Personality of Godhead and His transcendental name, fame, glory, etc., are all nondifferent from Him. Therefore, all the sages and devotees of the Lord have recommended that the subject matter of art, science, philosophy, physics, chemistry, psychology and all other branches of knowledge should be wholly and solely applied in the service of the Lord. Art, literature, poetry, painting, etc., may be used in glorifying the Lord. The fiction writers, poets and celebrated litterateurs are generally engaged in writing of sensuous subjects, but if they turn towards the service of the Lord they can describe the transcendental pastimes of the Lord. Vālmīki was a great poet, and similarly Vyāsadeva is a great writer, and both of them have absolutely engaged themselves in delineating the transcendental activities of the Lord and by doing so have become immortal.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: No, no, it is not puffed-up. It is simply foolishness, "Because I do not know, therefore all others..." Ātmavat manyate. Everyone thinks of others in his own standard. But that argument is not valid.

Bhagavān: Is that the same psychology that they, they only know of material body, so when they think of God, they think that God has material body also.

Prabhupāda: That is still lower grade man. But so far experience that "I have not... God is beyond my experience." Another point that in the Bible, Christ, Lord Christ says that "My Lord, Thy be hallowed..." What is that?

Devotees: "Hallowed be Thy name."

Prabhupāda: So God has name.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: "Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed by Thy name."

Prabhupāda: Eh? So he admits God has His name. But it may be that he did not disclose or did not like to say, but there is already name. So it is up to the followers to know what is that name.

Yogeśvara: The Guru Maharaji followers say that God's name cannot be pronounced.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Yogeśvara: They say that God's name cannot be...

Room Conversation with Mr. Deshimaru -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: No, it is ignorance. Just like a man is suffering from disease. He is also lying down. He is also eating. He is also passing stool. And if he is informed that "After your disease is cured, you will also nicely sleep, you will also nicely walk, you will also nicely eat," but he is thinking, "Again eating? Again sleeping? Again...?" This is something like this. "So I don't want to be cured."

Karandhara: Yes, that's actually the psychology behind Zen philosophy.

Prabhupāda: That is the trouble, yes. He does not know what is the sleeping in healthy condition and what is the eating in healthy condition. He thinks this eating and that eating the same. (French)

Pṛthu Putra: He says for him, spiritual and material, they are going together. In spiritual is something material, and in material is something spiritual. And they are... Together they form harmony, and this harmony is the goal.

Prabhupāda: But he has no knowledge that although... Just like here is my leg, and here is my nail. Now when I cut the nail I don't feel, and as soon as you come little later, the skin, you feel pain. So they are one. But why there is no sensation, and why there is sensation? (French)

Yogeśvara: He doesn't understand the analogy. He doesn't understand the example, how that explains spiritual life as compared to material life.

Prabhupāda: Then why... How he will understand? Let me know. I will tell him. Let me know how he will understand.

Yogeśvara: He doesn't understand the example of the skin and the nail. How does that explain...

Morning Walk -- June 17, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: That's all. (break) ...samudvigna, always full of anxiety. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām. Intelligence is always absorbed: "Enemy may not come. Let me discover this, discover this atom bomb. This will save me. This will save me." This is their position. Sadā samudvigna-dhiyām asad-grahāt (SB 7.5.5). Why this anxiety? Because they have accepted something false as truth. Asad-grahāt. They have accepted sense gratification is the truth. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhuḥ. Indriyāṇi means senses. Parā, supreme. This is supreme. And then, if somebody is little advanced, indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ. Then the mental speculators, psychologists, philosophers, another, better class of rascals... This is the third-class rascal, and they are second-class rascal. Indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ, manasas tu parā buddhiḥ (BG 3.42). Then the intelligent class. They consider, "What is this nonsense? They are all suffering here." In this way, one who becomes actually intelligent, wise, then he understands, "Kṛṣṇa is everything." Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). So that highest position we are giving by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are not training them to be first-class fools, second-class fools, third-class... No. First-class intelligent. Kṛṣṇa yei bhaje sei baḍa catura. Without being first-class, intelligent man, nobody can take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness (break) ...drink everything. And why they fight? What is the cause? Suppose father gives all necessities of life to the children. Why they should fight? Simply ignorance and foolishness. That's all. Where is the cause of fighting? Just like Pāṇḍavas, to settle up their misunderstanding, Kṛṣṇa said, "All right, they are kṣatriyas, They cannot take up the occupation of vaiśya or śūdra. Give them five villages so that they'll be happy. They'll rule over, each one on the village." "No, Sir. Not a piece of land holding the tip of the needle can be spared without fighting." This is the world. The German, German war, First World War, what was the cause? The cause was that the Britishers will not allow the Germans to trade all over the world. They captured everything. And they'll purchase from Germany goods and cheat people...,

Room Conversation with Professor Durckheim German Spiritual Writer -- June 19, 1974, Germany:

Prof. Pater Porsch: But, perhaps, that could be also a question, that Graf Durckheim has in mind, I think, perhaps, when he asked the question about belief, etc. Perhaps he also thinks that we are living in a period of, where, because of the technological construction of society, rational knowledge is appreciated and, for example, ten years ago non-rational knowledge in Germany, actually, or in Europe was highly suspected. We had lived through a period of positivism, and people in our universities even wanted to abolish the word consciousness. They even wanted to abolish the word psychology on the basis, on the presumption that there is no such thing as a (German).

Professor Durckheim: But this time is over.

Prof. Pater Porsch: Yes.

Professor Durckheim: The modern times are not modern anymore.

Prof. Pater Porsch: I agree with you but just think how the world was only a few years ago.

Professor Durckheim: Yes. And especially if you talk about the rational (German), the really German tradition is the irrational. So now this is coming back now, rediscovering their own past slowly.

Prabhupāda: So long they do not come to the standard platform, they will accept this sometimes and that sometimes. This will go on, changing.

Prof. Pater Porsch: No, but I meant it differently. Can it not be that average man in the street... I don't mean... Yes, it was, of course, in Germany. Man in the street now is infected from the...

Professor Durckheim: Absolutely, yes.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1974, Germany:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Professor Durckheim: They go and stand at the zoo to see an animal. Yes, It's true. And I have just now in my center the visit of six Americans from Chicago who have their psychological center, and they wanted to know what we do, and they told me. They have a special little area where children are taken to see one cow, you see, or one horse just to know what it is because they never see it, never see an animal.

Prabhupāda: Most unnatural life. City life, most unnatural.

Professor Durckheim: Oh, there are many children, they have never seen a tree. (break) ...sleeping only very few hours.

Prabhupāda: Not very few hours. Say, four, five hours altogether. Altogether. Maximum five, minimum four.

Professor Durckheim: All the night or do you at the day sometimes?

Prabhupāda: No. At night I get up at one, at half past one, sometimes half past twelve. But I take a little rest, one or two hour in the daytime. So two hours at night, two hours at day, or three hours at night, two hours in day. In this way, altogether five hours, not more than that. Our predecessor gurus, Gosvāmīs, they were taking rest not more than two hours or 2-1/2 hours. So we should come to that standard, yes. Nidrāhāra-vihārakādi-vijitau **. About them this description is: they reduced their sleeping, nidra. Nidra means sleeping. And āhāra. Āhāra means eating and collection. Collection is also āhāra. Yes. So they were mendicant. They had no collection. And they had no preaching mission. They were simply writing books. Nānā-śāstra-vicāraṇaika-nipuṇau, very expert to study different scriptures just to get the essence of scripture and give to the people. Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau. So their life was engaged for the benefit of the whole human society. What these people are talking philanthropy and humanitarian? They dedicated their life for... Just like we are doing. It is not for any sect or any person. For the whole human society. So that should be the mission. Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau tri-bhuvane mānyau. Therefore their literature is honored all over the world, all over the universe. Just like our books. We are selling all over the world, all universities, all school, all colleges, all gentlemen. It is not sectarian. Lokānāṁ hita-kāriṇau tri-bhuvane mānyau śaraṇyākarau.

Room Conversation with Bishop Kelly -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in one of the Vedic literature, that:

nitya-siddha kṛṣṇa-prema sādhya kabhu naya

śravaṇādi-śuddha-citte karaye udaya

(Cc. madhya 22.107)

The inherent principle is eternally a fact, his obedience to God. But artificially he has covered it, artificially. The God consciousness is there in everyone, but by so-called material advancement, he has forgotten. He has his obedience to God, natural. Even the aborigines in the forest, they also submit to the manifestation of God's different energies. As soon as there is some lightning and there is thunderbolt, they immediately... They offer obeisances. As soon as they see a big sea, ocean, they offer obeisances. So that is inherent. But due to the material association it is covered. And therefore Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura says,

jaḍa-vidyā jato, māyāra vaibhava,

tomāra bhajane bādhā

The more we advance in so-called material, what is called, amenities, we forget God. We forget God. So the inherent, dormant, propensity is to become servant of God, but material association is checking him. Therefore if he... Just like now psychological treatment—a crazy fellow, he goes to the psychiatrist and he talks with him. Gradually, talking, talking, he cures him—similarly, these men who have forgotten or these living entity, if they associate with devotees and they constantly talk and hear about God, then again he revives his God consciousness. Yes. So we are, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement or any other... We open many centers, and we talk, we sell our literature. His lordship has seen our books? You can show some of the books.

Room Conversation with Scientists -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Satsvarūpa: Translation: "Learned circles have positively concluded that the infallible purpose of the advancement of knowledge, namely austerities, study of the Vedas, sacrifice, chanting of hymns and charity, culminates in the transcendental descriptions of the Lord, who is defined in choice poetry."

Prabhupāda: Purport.

Satsvarūpa: Human intellect is developed for advancement of learning in art, science, philosophy, physics, chemistry, psychology, economics, politics, etc. By culture of such knowledge the human society can attain perfection of life. This perfection of life culminates in the realization of the Supreme Being, Viṣṇu. The śruti therefore directs that those who are actually advanced in learning should aspire for the service of Lord Viṣṇu. Unfortunately persons who are enamored by the external beauty of viṣṇu-māyā do not understand that culmination of perfection or self-realization depends on Viṣṇu. Viṣṇu-māyā means sense enjoyment, which is transient and miserable. Those who are entrapped by viṣṇu-māyā utilize advancement of knowledge for sense enjoyment. Śrī Nārada Muni has explained that all paraphernalia of the cosmic universe is but an emanation from the Lord out of His different energies because the Lord has set in motion, by His inconceivable energy, the actions and reactions of the created manifestation. They have come to be out of His energy, they rest on His energy, and after annihilation they merge into Him. Nothing is, therefore, different from Him, but at the same time the Lord is always different from them.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: This is practical. The scientists have got good brain, but who manufactured the brain? You cannot do. You have not manufactured your brain. If you say, "By nature," then nature is more powerful than you. But nature is dead. It cannot create life. That is in the hand of Kṛṣṇa. Mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ (BG 15.7). As soon as the question of jīva, living entity, there, this, mine, you can say it is nature. And other things? Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarva... (BG 3.27). Prakṛti, nature, is doing. Everything explained. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said, sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā: (Bs. 5.44) "There is an energy which can create, maintain, and destroy the whole cosmic manifestation." Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā (Bs. 5.44), one. There is one energy. Chāyeva yasya vibharti bhuvanāni durgā: "That energy is working just like shadow under the direction of Kṛṣṇa." That is big energy, but that energy... Just like atomic energy, big energy, but it is done by a scientist, not that the ingredients automatically mix together and become an atomic... No. That is not possible. Big, big brain, scientist, they are dealing. Similarly this big energy-creation, maintenance, and destruction of nature—that nature is called Durgā. Durgā. Duḥ. Duḥ means difficult, and gā means going or to understand. To understand the laws of material nature is very difficult. That is called Durgā. Or Durgā means... Durgā means this is like a fort. We are kept within this, and the superintendent is Durgā. Therefore Durgā's picture is ten hands, ten directions with different kinds of weapon protecting. Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā, icchānu... (Bs. 5.44). Now the conclusion. Icchānurūpam api yasya ca ceṣṭate sā: "She is working not independently, according to the desire of somebody else." Who is that somebody? Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **: "That is Govinda. I am worshiping Him." And this is confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā.

mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ

sūyate sa-carācaram

hetunānena kaunteya

jagad viparivartate

(BG 9.10)

What is the use of...? Why should we go to research? Everything is there. Our position is very safe. We get the perfect knowledge without wasting our time. We take from Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Finish. We know everything. Just like so many scientists, so many psychology, psychiatrist, and religionist, they come to me, but I am neither of them. I never was a scientist nor I am a psychologist nor a psychiatrist nor this or that. But I speak on the strength of Bhagavad-gītā; I defeat them. It is practical. So many people came to me but nobody went unharmed. Yes.

Room Conversations -- September 10, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...within the fire, that will increase appetite. That is the psychology. Within the fire. Long, long years ago I did it, and I got very good appetite. And whatever nonsense it appears, it was very sweet.

Gurudāsa: Yes. I used to cook myself before meeting Yamunā.

Prabhupāda: Long, long ago?

Gurudāsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And it was very nice?

Gurudāsa: It was nonsense, but I enjoyed it.

Prabhupāda: In India amongst the brāhmaṇas, this self cooking is very much (indistinct).

Gurudāsa: I think it... (break) ...prasādam in a very simple way. When you cook yourself, very simple.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break)

Gurudāsa: ...Rādhā-Dāmodara, did you cook yourself?

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Room Conversations -- September 10, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is a fact. But this higher class and lower class will continue to exist. Even it is existing in communistic countries. That cannot..., you cannot stop in this material world. The tendency is that everyone is thinking that he shall be the best enjoyer, best enjoyer. So this is called struggle for existence. Naturally, this higher class and lower class will remain. You cannot stop it. Even in communistic country, this Khrushchev was driven away. He was taking all advantages for his family, for himself. As soon as he got the post, he misused it. He gave his son-in-law very big post, his family members. That was detected, and he was charged that "You are using your influence, nepotism." Therefore, he was driven away. So this natural tendency, as soon as one gets power, he will try to utilize it. This psychology you cannot stop in the material world. That is not possible. That sacrificing spirit, that "My life is dedicated to Kṛṣṇa," then it is possible. Otherwise, as soon as one will get some position and power, he will try to utilize it for his personal benefit. How you can stop it? It is like if you try to make the lion nonviolent. Is it possible? Why lion? Even an ant is violent. Even an ant it is violent. As soon as it gets opportunity, it will bite you. So this tendency of artificial supremacy means material life. That is material life. So how you can stop it? That separation is going on. You see in the spiritual life also. My Godbrothers, they are trying to suppress me. They are writing articles that in foreign countries these things..., Ratha-yātrā is going on, so many temples have been, but they will never mention my name. They have suppressed. They want to... They write articles in such a way that Bon Mahārāja has done so much and they have done so much, and my name is not mentioned. This spirit, "Oh, this man is going so high." Therefore, Bhāgavata says nirmatsarāṇām. You know the meaning of nirmatsarāṇām?

Room Conversations -- September 10, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, not a single person. Actually he remains slave, artificially he thinks that "I am master." Just like Nixon was thinking. He was actually slave of the nation, but he was thinking, "I am master." When he was pressed too much, he had to admit, "Yes, I am your slave." He was pressed. Rather, oppressed. Nobody is thinking. Idam adya mayā labdham imaṁ prāpsye punar dhanam. Everyone is thinking, "I have got now so much money (indistinct) ...lot of money, so who is better than me?" (indistinct) She has become poet. Nonsense number one, and she is poet. Does not know the human psychology or animal psychology. The human psychology, animal psychology, that you have seen on the road, the sex. The animal does not require any education. The animal knows how to use sex; the man knows how to use sex. Where is the difference? Simply she is animal, she does the sex intercourse in a public street, animal (indistinct) an apartment, very nice apartment (indistinct). It is (indistinct), either you are dog or a human being, the fact is. He also sleeps. He sleeps on the street anywhere, and we sleep in a nice apartment. He also eats, and the human being also eats. He eats the stool and we eat very nice, palatable foodstuff. That sleeping propensity is there, sex life is there, and he is also afraid of enemies. Where is the difference? Difference is that dog cannot be taught Kṛṣṇa consciousness but a man can be taught. That is the difference. So if man does not take advantage of this human life, how to become Kṛṣṇa conscious, then he is no better than a dog. He has no (indistinct)

Devotee (1): So her poetry is just like the braying of the ass.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Devotee (1): Her poetry was just like the braying of the ass.