Psychiatrist (Conversations, 1972 - 1975)

Expressions researched:
"psychiatric" |"psychiatrist" |"psychiatrist's" |"psychiatrists" |"psychiatry"

1972 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 2, 1972, Sydney:

Prabhupāda: Vikarma means 'actions which should not be done.' Therefore, we must practice sādhana-bhakti, which means to offer maṅgala-ārati (Deity worship) in the morning, to refrain from certain material activities, to offer obeisances to the spiritual master and to follow many other rules and regulations which will be discussed here, one after another. These practices will help one to become cured of madness. As a man's mental disease is cured by the directions of a psychiatrist, so this sādhana-bhakti cures the conditioned soul of his madness under the spell of maya, or material illusion.

Room Conversation -- October 25, 1972, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They come to see me. The one psychologist and psychiatrist came to see me in Los Angeles. And many scientists come. Some of them are my disciples.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Dr. Hauser: You see, when I met George, he was a very, what do you call it, person that hadn't found anything very specific in life. He floated about very much and he... Now when I met him yesterday he was very, he seemed very happy and very sure of himself and what he was doing, and that made me very happy. I thought that was something very nice. I liked him very much.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the original status of the living entity. Just like a son is conscious always that "I am the son of such and such person." This consciousness is natural. So living entities, when they come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness... Because we are all parts and parcels of Kṛṣṇa. It cannot be broken. A person may go mad. But when he's cured, he immediately understands that "I belong to such and such family, such and such gentleman's son." That is natural. Similarly in the contact of this material nature, the spiritual spark, living entity, he's in madness. You are a psychiatrist. You know very well. Every man is more or less a madman.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Haṁsadūta: The whole society's driving on so many...

Prabhupāda: Therefore we call it is illusion, māyā. Just like I showed you.

Haṁsadūta: Yes, the reflection.

Prabhupāda: Reflection. I, in morning walk, the sun was reflected in a glass exactly it is brilliant as sun. So I showed him: "This is called māyā, illusion. There is no sun, but it appears like sun. Exactly. And it is illuminating also." Reflection of the moon. So one who is less intelligent, he'll see: "Oh, here is a sun, another sun." So he's a madman. One who sees the sun reflection in the glass as sun, he's illusioned. He's mad. So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is also psychiatrist movement.

Dr. Hauser: Is that a...?

Haṁsadūta: Psychiatric.

Paramahaṁsa: Psychiatric movement.

Dr. Hauser: Oh, yes, yes. In a way... I... Yes.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. We are taking away a person from the illusionary stage to the real stage of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation with Dr. Christian Hauser, Psychiatrist -- September 10, 1973, Stockholm:

Haṁsadūta: His point is that we, our processes skips all this work that they do in an ordinary psychiatric ward or...

Dr. Hauser: No. Yes. Or in specific processes which are directed towards insight, the same kind of insight that I imagine you are striving for.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We ask them to refrain from four prohibitive principles. No illicit sex, no gambling, no meat-eating, no intoxication. And chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Refrain from these prohibitions. And chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. And he becomes sane, Kṛṣṇa conscious. Very easy.

Morning Walk -- December 12, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prajāpati: The psychologists say it is unhealthy to go without sex life. The men these people trust, the psychologists, psychiatrists, say it is unhealthy.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is also, we know. But there is a process. Just like brahmacārī process is there, sannyāsī process is there. So if you adopt the process, you can restrict.

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Reverend Gordon Powell, Head of Scots Church -- June 28, 1974, Melbourne:

Reverend Powell: Well, normal doctors, but now, we explain to our patients that the doctor normally works with the physical level, and the psychiatrist works with the emotional mental level, but the church works with the spiritual level. And just as Jesus...

Prabhupāda: Spiritual level means to cure his material disease.

Reverend Powell: Yes.

Prabhupāda: The material disease is birth, death, old age and disease.

Reverend Powell: I'm sorry. I don't quite follow that.

Satsvarūpa: He said the real disease is the material condition in which we have to suffer birth, death, disease and old age.

Reverend Powell: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So these things can be overcome by Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Room Conversation with Bishop Kelly -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: The more we advance in so-called material, what is called, amenities, we forget God. We forget God. So the inherent, dormant, propensity is to become servant of God, but material association is checking him. Therefore if he... Just like now psychological treatment—a crazy fellow, he goes to the psychiatrist and he talks with him. Gradually, talking, talking, he cures him—similarly, these men who have forgotten or these living entity, if they associate with devotees and they constantly talk and hear about God, then again he revives his God consciousness. Yes. So we are, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement or any other... We open many centers, and we talk, we sell our literature.

Room Conversation with Bishop Kelly -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: I said that if one engages himself in the service of the Lord some way or other, then the revelation, the original dormant God consciousness and love of God, becomes revived. Exactly in the same way: the psychiatrists, they treat the crazy fellow by talking, talking, talking some way. So if we talk of Kṛṣṇa, then the original Kṛṣṇa consciousness is revived. That is also stated. You find out in the Bhāgavata, śṛṇvatāṁ sva-kathāḥ kṛṣṇaḥ puṇya-śravaṇa-kīrtanaḥ hṛdy antaḥ stho hy abhadrāṇi... (SB 1.2.17). Yes, purport. So this is very important thing. Therefore we have published so many books about Kṛṣṇa—to hear. Hearing, hearing, hearing, and... Just like man is sleeping. You talk loudly, and he will be awakened.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Why should we go to research? Everything is there. Our position is very safe. We get the perfect knowledge without wasting our time. We take from Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Finish. We know everything. Just like so many scientists, so many psychology, psychiatrist, and religionist, they come to me, but I am neither of them. I never was a scientist nor I am a psychologist nor a psychiatrist nor this or that. But I speak on the strength of Bhagavad-gītā; I defeat them. It is practical. So many people came to me but nobody went unharmed. Yes.

Madhudviṣa: Digvijāya.

Prabhupāda: Because we are getting perfect knowledge from Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation with Devotees -- July 2, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Don't make compromise. This principle must be observed. Then you'll remain strong. As soon as you make compromise, then it is finished. Dṛḍha-vratāḥ. Find out this verse. Dṛḍha-vratāḥ. What is that? Bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ. Namasyantaś ca māṁ...

Cāru: Bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ.

Prabhupāda: Ah, ah. That dṛḍha-vratāḥ must be there, strong determination. Then it will go on. The scientists will come to learn and the psychiatrists will come to learn if you keep dṛḍha-vratāḥ. And as soon as you make compromise, then nobody will care for.

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Psychiatrist -- February 22, 1975, Caracas:

Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He said that he came here... he wants to know, more or less, our views on psychiatry.

Prabhupāda: Of course, I am not a psychiatrist, but what is the subject matter of psychiatrist? May I know? So far I know, that when a man becomes mad, he requires consultation of a psychiatrist. Is that all right? (Hṛdayānanda talks with other man in Spanish)

Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He says that nowadays psychiatry is not so much concerned just with crazy people, but it's just concerned with the human problems.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is very good. So what is the human problem in their understanding?

Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): To some extent they see that when there's something wrong with the physical body, it causes a manifestation of a mental disease.

Prabhupāda: When there is something wrong in the physical body, there is mental disease. That we accept also. But that mental disease is there basically, that he is thinking that he is body.

Psychiatrist (Hṛdayānanda): He says that he was speaking about an organic... For example, if someone has a tumor in their brain, it causes irritability, anxiety, suffering and so many things. They are seeing more, there's some physical defect.

Prabhupāda: The physical defect... Just like a driver of the car, and when his car is damaged, the driver becomes very sorry that "My car is now broken, damaged," but is the driver the carriage? Sometimes a valuable car is damaged and the proprietor or the driver, he becomes very sorry, almost half-dead, "Oh, my car is lost." So this is due to his too much attraction for the car. When the machine car stops (it) does not mean the driver is damaged. But he thinks, "Now, I am finished. My car is damaged." But although he is not the car, he thinks that he is damaged. So that is mental disease. He is different from the car, but he thinks that he is damaged by the damage of the car. And if he knows correctly, that "What is that? I will get another new car," what is the cause of suffering? The driver is not the car, but on account of his too much absorption, identifying the car with him, he suffers. So if the psychiatrist informs him that "Why you are sorry? You are not the car," then he is cured.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- February 28, 1975, Atlanta:

Rūpānuga: So this book actually, is directed to scientifically-minded people because in this age people are getting educated. They are getting scientific-minded.

Prabhupāda: But that creating problem. The psychiatrists came to see me, where? Caracas. So I said—he admitted, both the psychiatrists—that "You are not treating the real person who is diseased." I gave him the example, that "You have got good car, but the driver is a madman, and he is creating disaster, and you psychiatrists are going to cure it. You never say that 'The driver is bad. Change him or just educate him. Then there will be no disaster.' But you are taking your fees and giving some repairing in the car. But you do not know what is the original cause of disaster. It is not chance. Due to the bad driver." So our propaganda is to give the bad driver nice knowledge so that he can drive the car to Vaikuṇṭha. That is our position. And these rascals, the materialists, they are simply painting the body of the car. And the driver? "Let him starve."

Rūpānuga: They are like the cheating mechanics.

Prabhupāda: That's all. All these medical men, psychiatrists, they are simply painting the body of the car. That's all.

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Prabhupāda: Oh, what is the question of Mr. Psychiatrist? Who is psychiatrist? You are? Come here.

Guest (7): No, I have just come to listen.

Prabhupāda: Thank you. The other day in Caracas two or three psychiatrists came. His question was how to solve the problems. So our statement is that unless you treat the spiritual disease of the human society, then the problems will increase. It will be never be solved. The real disease is spiritual disease.

Guest (7): The young children also? What about young children?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Young children should be educated from the very beginning about God consciousness or the science of God. We had the opportunity in our childhood. My father taught. And then, when I was grown up, my spiritual master taught. So for that reason we have got some sense.

Room Coversation with Psychiatrist and Indian Boy -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: No. Our viewpoint is that in the material world, who has accepted this material body—anyone, but we specially take the human society—they require treatment, everyone. Everyone is mentally diseased, and therefore he is unhappy. Everyone. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahād-guṇa (SB 5.18.12). Anyone who has no sense of God consciousness, he is diseased mentally. He requires treatment. The whole human society, especially at the present moment, they have given up God consciousness. They are not interested. That is their disease. And everyone requires treatment. So the whole Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the mass treatment of the materialistic persons who are mentally diseased. That is our proposition. It is... In India there was a case. A man committed murder, and he pleaded in the court that... His pleader, his lawyer, pleaded that he was mad at that time. We also accept unless one becomes mad, one cannot commit murder or suicide. So the civil surgeon was brought to give evidence whether this man is actually mad. The civil surgeon said that "So far my experience is concerned—I have treated so many persons—in my opinion everyone is mad. So if on account of madness one should be excused from the law, then it is Your Honor's discretion, but so far I have studied, more or less, everyone is mad." Similarly, our study is that unless one is mad, he cannot remain in this material world. So everyone is mentally diseased, and they are concocting their ideas, different ideas. And they are overlapping, my idea, your idea overlapping. Therefore there is clash, unhappiness, violence, individually, socially, familywise, nationwise. This is going on. Therefore everyone requires a treatment, psychiatrist's treatment. And the best treatment is to induce a person to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. Then everything will be all right. Otherwise, a person who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, or God conscious, he is basically a mad man and requires treatment.

Room Coversation with Psychiatrist and Indian Boy -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: There is ghost. And sometimes ghost attacks a man. Because he has no material body, he wants to act through other's body. So the man who is attacked, he forgets himself, and he speaks and walks according to the dictation of the ghost. That is called ghostly haunted man.

Śrutakīrti: What is the significance of... What is this?

Prabhupāda: He talks nonsense. Suppose his father comes before him, he calls him by ill names, like that. He talks nonsense. So anyone who is too much materially affected, he also talks nonsense. Anartha upāsamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje. The treatment is bhakti-yoga. That we are teaching. Without any exception, we accept everyone a patient for psychiatric treatment.

Room Coversation with Psychiatrist and Indian Boy -- May 12, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Everyone is in this material world on account of attachment. And similarly, for woman, the man's body is beautiful. So in this way both of them are attached to one another. That is the basic principle of material life. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham kaṇḍūyanena karayor iva duḥkha-duḥkham (SB 7.9.45). They become attached. On account of sex life, they become more attached, and therefore both of them remain almost perpetually in this material world, and to satisfy different desires they transmigrate from one body to another. And on account of accepting this material body, there is always miserable condition. Therefore everyone requires the psychiatric treatment so that the mind may be transferred from matter to spirit soul. Then he will be cured. The disease is of the mind. Harāv abhaktasy kuto mahād-guṇa mano-rathena. Everyone is riding on the chariot of mind. And the mind is taking him here and there, here... And the yoga practice is also treatment. This is also yoga, bhakti-yoga, and this ordinary haṭha-yoga, that is also treatment of the mind. Treatment of mind means controlling the senses. Yoga indriya-samyamaḥ. Mind is the leader of the senses. So if the treatment of the mind is done properly, then the senses work properly. The example is the madman. Because the madman's mind is not controlled, he is acting in a way—people say, "Here is a madman." So everyone is more or less a madman in this material world, or, in other words, you can say anyone who is in the material world, he is a madman. He requires treatment.

Morning Walk -- May 15, 1975, Perth:

Amogha: Just like now we have come to the point where the different doctors are thinking very seriously of having this mercy killing passed in the courts. When a person becomes too much diseased, actually he would be happier if he was dead, so why not kill him?

Prabhupāda: That is contradictory. He will kill somebody, and he will give life somebody. That is... There is no standard. Everything is all right. Then why do you bother that "This is good"? The same "good" is bad for others.

Paramahaṁsa: That's why we have psychiatrists, to decide... They analyze the person very carefully and see what is good for him. And completely on a relative basis they give a prescription.

Prabhupāda: Then why don't you think what is good for you? Why you are so busy for the good of others?

Śrutakīrti: Well that's this particular person's happiness, is seeing that others are happy.

Prabhupāda: No, no. The same happiness is distress for others. Then what is the use, bothering yourself, "This is happiness; this is distress"?

Śrutakīrti: Because that is what makes me happy.

Amogha: We understand it is relative. Therefore we're working in a relative world.

Prabhupāda: All right, do that. Madman's program. That is Vivekananda, "Everything is all right." "Everything is all right"—then why do you preach? You stop your preaching. Everything is all right. What is the use of saying that "This is good; this is bad"? Everything is all right.

Morning Walk -- May 17, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Stop your this cycle of repetition of birth, death, old age and disease. Come to eternal life and blissful life. So we are the only friends. All are enemies even in the shape of friend or father or teacher-enemies. They do not know the art.

What they will do? Suppose if you have got a very good father. If he does not know how to stop your gliding down to accept a dog's life, then what does he do simply by giving some food? And making a fatty dog?

Amogha: But if what you say is true, why don't more people know about it? There are so many teachers. There are spiritual teachers and...

Prabhupāda: They will not know. That... These rascals say, "No, it will not be accepted." Just like yesterday they came, all the psychiatrists. As soon as we prescribed that "This is the prescription," they said, "Oh, it is impractical." I say that "Send your patients here. We shall make him instantly drugless." They will not accept it. "Oh, why not at home?" At home? And he will remain with the drug addict, and he will become drugless. Is it possible? The surrounding men, all drug addicts, and he will become drugless. How it is possible?

Morning Walk -- May 18, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: I've talked with many psychiatric scientists in Los Angeles.

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupāda: All of them (indistinct). Even our own scientist.

Amogha: (laughs) Yes.

Prabhupāda: Therefore he is now writing books. He is afraid of writing these such books, because his brother scientists may not like it.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Gerson: In this country psychology and psychiatry has become almost like a priesthood, and people look to them for answers. And if one of the people that they take in that way, me, can give them another answer, then perhaps they'll start to turn in another direction, to Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Dharmādhyakṣa: Because the psychologists, they are like the gurus nowadays. Rather than reading philosophy books or religion books, everyone is reading psychology books like this I'm OK, You're OK. It was a big best seller. So now Dr. Gerson, he wants to inject in this psychology field... Anyone who is thinking, "Who am I?" He is reading psychology books. This is supposed to be the science of self-realization today. So they're actually more influential than philosophers.

Prabhupāda: Have they advanced about "Who am I?"

Dr. Gerson: So I would like to inject into this system Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Oh, that is very good. If the scientists, philosophers, they take up seriously then it will be good for the general mass of people. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ (BG 3.21). You are recognized leaders, so if you help them to accept, that will be great service.

Room Conversation with Dr. John Mize -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva: Prabhupāda, the professor asked what is the relationship with the soul and the mind?

Prabhupāda: Mind is there in the soul, but the mind is now polluted by material contamination. Just like a madman. He has got his mind, but his mind is contaminated. Therefore he requires treatment by psychiatrist. You cannot say the madman has no mind. He has got mind, but it is contaminated. You have to make treatment. So mind is there. Everything is there in the soul. And now the mind, contaminated by the matter, it is perverted. The same example: A madman has got mind, but it is useless. He is simply acting in madness. The same madman, when properly treated, he will act like a sane man. So mind is there always, in the pure soul or in the material body. Everything is spiritual. The soul is spiritual; the mind is spiritual; the intelligence is spiritual. But it is now contaminated. So you have to make treatment. When it is purified, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then mind is controlled, intelligence properly acting, and soul is in his proper position. Therefore those who are under treatment, they must be strict observation—he may not do something wrong so that treatment may be hampered.

Morning Walk -- November 13, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So, so many psychologists, psychiatrists, scientists, they come there in Los Angeles.

Dr. Patel: I mean, the psychologists are the real science which can lead a man to the higher understanding of life, psychologists. The abstract sciences of biology and psychics, chemistry, are little lower sciences. The psychology is much higher.

Prabhupāda: No science is perfect. Asato dhavato bahiḥ.

Dr. Patel: In imperfection also there can be gradations.

Prabhupāda: Gradations, that I give the example: stool, this side and that side, the dry side and the moist side. Somebody says, "Oh, this side is very good. It is dry stool." (laughter)