Now one may doubt that because Kṛṣṇa was the friend of Arjuna, therefore he might say all these things to his own friend. But Arjuna, just to drive out this kind of doubts in the mind of the readers of Bhagavad-gītā, he establishes his proposition by the authorities. He says that Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa is accepted as the Supreme Personality of Godhead not only by himself, Arjuna, but He is so accepted by authorities like Nārada, Asita, Devala, Vyāsa. These personalities are great personalities in distributing the Vedic knowledge. They (are) accepted by all ācāryas. Therefore Arjuna says that "Whatever You have spoken so far to me, I accept them as completely perfect." Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye (BG 10.14). "I take it, I believe it that whatever You have spoken, they are all right. And Your Personality, Your Personality of Godhead, is very difficult to understand. And therefore You cannot be known by even the demigods. You cannot be known even by the demigods." That means the Supreme Personality Godhead cannot be known even by greater personalities than the human being, and how a human being can understand Śrī Kṛṣṇa without becoming His devotee?
Proposition (Lectures)
Lectures
Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures
I have heard it from authorative sources." He never says, "Kṛṣṇa, in my opinion, if it is done like that, then people will go to hell." He does not give his own opinion. He says iti, "Thus," anuśuśruma, "I have heard." This is called paramparā system. Nobody should give his own opinion. He must quote the authoritative statement to support his proposition. So similarly, when Caitanya Mahāprabhu asked that "What is the aim of life and how to achieve it?" so Rāmānanda Rāya, he did not give his own opinion, that "In my opinion, like this." Here also Arjuna says, ity anuśuśruma, "I have heard it." He heard it means... Śuśruma means "heard from authority." So Rāmānanda Rāya said that "Real purpose of life, goal of life, is to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead." Just like as we are citizens, what is our duty? We want to satisfy the authority, the government. When one serves the government nicely, in this country he is recognized as knight. He is recognized as earl, as lord, as... So many, they have got titles.
Kṛṣṇa is engaging him in His service. So one has to understand that. So when Arjuna will understand that "This war, this fighting is not for my sense gratification, it is for Kṛṣṇa's sense gratification..." Then he agreed, because he is a devotee. Kariṣye vacanaṁ tava: (BG 18.73) "Yes I shall now act." This is the proposition. So ātmendriya-tṛpti-vāñchā dhare tāra nāma kāma. Kāma means lust. What is lust? Lust means whenever you try to satisfy your senses, that is called lust. And the same, whenever you try to satisfy Kṛṣṇa's senses, that is love. Practically the same business, but personal and Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we have to act everything for Kṛṣṇa under proper direction. We cannot manufacture that "I am doing for Kṛṣṇa." Then that is another misleading. Therefore we require the guidance of the spiritual master. Kṛṣṇa. Guru-kṛṣṇa-kṛpāya (CC Madhya 19.151).
The sun is self-effulgent. It is already there. Light is there. Why one should take a lamp to show the sun? This misinterpretation has killed the spirit, the real essence, of Bhagavad-gītā.
So there was so many editions and so many misinterpretation. Our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, our proposition is that we are, I mean to say, presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. We do not misinterpret. So dharma-kṣetra kuru-kṣetra. Kurukṣetra is dharma-kṣetra, the place where religious ritualistic performances are done. Kuru-kṣetre dharmam ācaret. That is the Vedic version. So Kurukṣetra is always... Still people go for pilgrimage in Kurukṣetra, and the station is there, Kurukṣetra, and the place is there. People go there. Kurukṣetra. Why one should interpret that kuru-kṣetra means this body and Pāṇḍavas means these pañca-indriyas, so many things? There is no question of interpretation. And this Mahābhārata... Mahābhārata means "The History of Greater India." That is Mahābhārata. History, it is history. It is not a fiction.
The Māyāvādī argues that the plurality mentioned in this verse is conventional and that the plurality thus refers to the body. But previous to this verse such a bodily conception has already been condemned. After condemning the bodily conception of living entities, how was it possible for Kṛṣṇa to place a conventional proposition on the body again? Therefore, the plurality is on spiritual grounds as is confirmed by great teachers like Śrī Rāmānuja. It is clearly mentioned in many places in the Bhagavad-gītā that this spiritual plurality is understood by those who are devotees of the Lord. Those who are envious of Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead have no bona fide access to the great literature. The nondevotee's approach to the teachings of the Bhagavad-gītā is something like a bee licking on a bottle of honey. One cannot have a taste of honey unless one can taste within the bottle. Similarly, the mysticism of the Bhagavad-gītā can be understood only by devotees. No one else can taste it, as is stated in the Fourth Chapter of the book.
Because He is very clearly differentiating between Him and the living entities, all individuals. So if the Māyāvādī philosopher is right that this differentiation is due to our illusion, then we have to accept Kṛṣṇa is also in illusion. Because He's making differentiation. So if Kṛṣṇa is in illusion, then what is the use of taking His version? Because our proposition is that we have to take knowledge from the perfect person. So if Kṛṣṇa is in illusion, then how He can become perfect person, and the knowledge delivered by Him is perfect? No. Kṛṣṇa is not illusioned. We are in illusion. Kṛṣṇa is not in illusion. Kṛṣṇa cannot be in illusion.
(reads from purport:) "In the Vedas, in the Kaṭha Upaniṣad as well as in the Śvetāśvatara Upaniṣad, it is said that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is the maintainer of innumerable living entities..." The Supreme Personality of Godhead... Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). There is eka and bahu. The bahu, they are also nitya and cetana.
So this is going on. They are simply cheating public. They have no sufficient knowledge, still they are trying to speak of some subject of which they have no sufficient knowledge. Besides that, the scientist... One scientist proposes, theorizes something today and another scientist makes this proposition, this theory, null and void and he speaks something else. That is also due to the imperfect of senses. So that is called mistake or illusion. Mistake means calculation, mathematical calculation. Two plus two equal to four, but sometimes by mistake we may put three or five. That is called mistake. And illusion, to accept something for something. Just like we are accepting. When somebody inquires, "who are you?" You just give identification of your body: "I am such and such, I am an American, I am born of such father and mother." But this body is not yourself, you are spirit soul. Therefore, it is called illusion. And because we are standing on the platform of illusion, there is mistake, there is cheating, and the senses are imperfect. This is the position.
So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to preach all over the world that kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam (SB 1.3.28). You are searching after God. You are taxing your brain so much. But in spite of taxing your brain, you say sometimes that "There is no God," or "God is dead," or "Everyone is God," and so on, so on. But our proposition is that why you are taxing your brain? Here is God. Here is God, Kṛṣṇa. By authorities, by Vedic version, by His activities. If we read life of Kṛṣṇa, we can see that He's Kṛṣṇa, God, from the very beginning of His birth. God is not manufactured by some mystic power. God is God, and dog is dog. A dog cannot become God; God cannot become dog. That is the difference.
So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means we are trying link up our connection with the supreme controller. We do not wish to become the controller. We want to be controlled—but by the supreme controller, not by others. That is our proposition. Just like generally, one who is in service, he hankers after government service. Because it is natural conclusion that "If I have to serve somebody, why a petty merchant? Why not take government service?" So that is our proposition, that we have to serve. We cannot do but serve. Any one of us. That is our constitutional position. Any one of us, we are sitting here, we are servant. Every one of us is servant. So our proposition is that you are servant in any case. Why not become servant of God? That is our proposition. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
So therefore this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very pious movement, the most, the most glorious welfare activities. And we are preaching this movement all over the world. Just to place Kṛṣṇa... Our only ambition is that to place Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is our proposition. We don't want to become Kṛṣṇa, but we want to become the most obedient servant of Kṛṣṇa. That is our proposition. So we invite everyone, from all parts of the world, and they are coming, they are joining. So in India Kṛṣṇa appeared. India has got a special advantage to understand Kṛṣṇa, and the Indians neglect it. That's a great misfortune, but we request everyone to join this movement, study the philosophy and become happy. That is our proposition. Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break)
Indian: Supposing... If independence is equal in...
Prabhupāda: If you, if you work according to the instruction of God, then you'll be happy. That is our proposition.
Indian: No, my question is..., difference between the service to the human being and the service to...
Prabhupāda: Just like if you water on the leaf, and if you water on the root, which is better?
Indian: The root.
Prabhupāda: That's it. But if you water the leaf, means you waste your time. Because by watering the leaf, you cannot make the tree living. Similarly, the śāstra says that water on the root. Yathā taror mūla-niṣecanena tṛpyanti tat-skandha-bhujopaśākhāḥ (SB 4.31.14). If you water the root, automatically the branches, the twigs, the leaves, they become invigorated. But if you water the leaf, you simply you think that you are doing service, but you are doing nothing. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)
One should go to Kurukṣetra and perform religious rituals there. So it is dharma-kṣetra by Vedic version, by practical example. Dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre (BG 1.1). But somebody's interpreting Kurukṣetra as this body. From which dictionary he can get this meaning, that Kurukṣetra means this body? This kind of interpretation is going on. But our proposition is that if you want to be benefited by reading Bhagavad-gītā, don't read such malinterpretation. Read Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Then you will be benefited. Kuru-kṣetre dharma-kṣetre. It is a fact. Kurukṣetra is dharma-kṣetra. Samavetā yuyutsavaḥ: (BG 1.1) And the persons assembled there, namely, the Pāṇḍavas and the Kauravas, they wanted to fight. Yuyutsavaḥ. That's all right. Where is the interpretation? They wanted to fight. They selected a nice place, dharma-kṣetra, Kurukṣetra, and there they fought. So it is, meaning is clear. Why there should be interpretation that "The Pāṇḍava means the five senses and the Kurukṣetra means this body"? Why? Why?
There is no science; there is no philosophy. Everything based on a foolish assumption. They say the consciousness is made possible by combination of matter. The combination of matter, five elements, gross, the subtle elements, they cannot see. Even they see. So their... (aside:) Not now. Their proposition is that this consciousness is a symptom of combination of matter. That is Buddhist philosophy. They do not accept the existence of soul. "The consciousness is a combination of matter." But if it is a fact, then why don't you, if some matter is lacking, why don't you bring that matter or chemical and inject in the dead body and make it again conscious? Why it is not possible? What is your argument? If you say consciousness is combination of matter...
Just like our motorcar is being driven. So when the petrol is finished, matter... Because motorcar running means combination of matter—some machine, made of matter, and some oil, acting—so it is running.
Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. Therefore, the Vāsudeva Ghoṣa, he requested Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu that "You deliver all these unhappy conditioned souls. And if You think they are sinful, they cannot be delivered, then transfer all the sins of these people to me. I shall suffer, and You take them away." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was very much pleased by his proposition and He smiled. He said that "This brahmāṇḍa, this universe, is only just like a mustard grain in the bag of mustard seeds." Our point is that there are so many universes. Just compare. You take a bag of mustard seeds and pick up one grain. In comparison to the pack of mustard seeds what is the value of this one grain? Similarly, this universe is like that. There are so many universes. The modern scientists, they are trying to go to other planets. Even they go, what is the credit there? There are koṭiṣu vasudhādi-vibhūti-bhinnam. One cannot go so many planets. Even according to their calculation, if they want to go to the topmost planet, which we call Brahmaloka, it will take forty-thousand of years in the light-year calculation.
And the small sparks, both of them are fire. But sometimes the sparks fall down from the big fire. That is our falldown. Falldown means we come into the material world. Why? Just to enjoy, to imitate Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the supreme enjoyer. So we are servants. Sometimes... It is natural. The servant desires that "If I could enjoy like the master..." So when this sentiment or proposition comes, that is called māyā. Because we cannot be enjoyer. This is false. If I think that I can become enjoyer, even in this material world, so-called... They're, everyone is trying to become enjoyer. And the last snare of enjoyer means that one thinks that "Now I shall become God." This is a last snare. First of all, I want to become manager, or proprietor. Then prime minister. Then this and that. And when everything is baffled, then one thinks that "Now I shall become God." That means the same propensity, to become master, to imitate Kṛṣṇa, is going on.
Not theory. Just like a conditioned soul writes some book on some thesis. What is the value of it? It has no value. Because the man who is putting forward the thesis, he is blind. He's imperfect. So how you can get perfect knowledge from him?
So our proposition is that to receive knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, the perfect person, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. We accept śāstra, means which is infallible. There is no mistake. Just like when I was walking near the cowshed, heaps of, piles of cow dung was there. So I was explaining to my followers that if such heaps of animal, I mean to say, man stool was heaped up here, nobody would come here. Nobody would come here. But the cow dung, there are so much heaps of cow dung, still, we find it pleasure to go through it. And in the Vedas it is said, "Cow dung is pure." This is called śāstra. If you argue, "How it can, it has become pure? It is an animal stool."
There will be regular rain, and if there is regular rain, there is ample food production. There is no question of overpopulation. God can supply you more than you want, provided you become God conscious, Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is the way.
So we have to accept this... vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni. You don't be misled by the proposition of the so-called blind leaders that you are this body. The leaders are misguiding us by identification with this body. There is fight always. "I am American." "I am Indian." "I am Russian." "I am Pakistani." "I am Hindustani." And there is fight. Advancement of civilization means advancement of fighting. That's all. When there was no Pakistan, there was some sporadic Hindu-Muslim fight. Now there is nation, Pakistan, and nation, Hindustan, and there is organized fight every year. This is advancement? So don't follow this foolish advancement. Take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness and be happy.
So scientific, I mean to say, proposition is based on observation and experiment. So this is simply observation, that those who are atheistic person... Just like medical science. There are many doctors. They are observing when a man dies, observing, feeling the pulse, taking pulse beating, offering oxygen gas, trying to save him. All of a sudden the man dies, and he is sure to die, but they cannot simply observe the symptoms. They cannot observe what is that thing which is gone now. They cannot say that. Neither it is possible for them to say. But their theory that combination of matter makes symptoms of life possible, they should prove it by experiment. Then it is complete science. Observation and experiment. But there is no such experiment till now. You trace out the history of the human society. Of course, in the modern world they cannot trace out chronological history more than three thousand years. That's all. But we can give account for many millions and millions of years. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa says, imaṁ vivasvate yogaṁ proktavān aham avyayam (BG 4.1).
You can make by some way no more war... That is also not possible. Anyway, if you stop it by the efforts of the United Nations, a veke(?) by some way no more war... That is also not possible. Anyway, if you stop it by the efforts of the United Nations, a very large organization, then how you are going to stop death? What is your proposition? There is no, nothing. So what is the use of stopping war? Suppose in the war some young men die. That's all right, so many young men die within the hospital in the disease. And sometimes old men, they do not die even in the war.
So life and death is not in your hand. You don't think that stopping this or increasing this, you'll be able to stop all inconveniences. Just take, for example, this boy, Vīrabhadra was struck by a car. All right, he was in the street. But another boy, he fell on the staircase and broke his leg. He was at home; he met accident. So how you can stop this, the onslaught of material nature?
So many promises. But Kṛṣṇa says that "Don't be allured." They are fact. They are not false statement. Actually they are facts, that if you act in such and such way, you can enter in higher planetary system and you have higher standard of life. But this Bhagavad-gītā proposition is that don't try to live within this material world anywhere. Anywhere.
There is Vedic instruction also. Tamaso mā jyotir gamaya. Don't remain within this darkness. This material world is darkness. Therefore there is need of sunlight, need of moonlight. Just like just now, night. What is this night? Night means this is the real appearance of this material world. It is dark. And when the sunlight will be visible, we shall think that it is daytime. But actually it is dark. But there is another nature. That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyaḥ (BG 8.20). Another spiritual nature where there is always illumination. Jyoti. Jyoti means illumination.
These imaginations are prescribed for persons who are too much absorbed in this bodily concept of life. "Here is a lotus, here is a manaḥ sarovara, and here is ocean of bliss, here is... Oh, you have to find out." Just to make him concentrate. Just like a naughty boy, to make him stop nonsense doing, "Please sit down here. Stop this all." Our proposition, "I am not this body. Even there is lotus, I don't care for it." Do you follow? I am not this body. Even there is lotus, what I have to do with this lotus? My first proposition is I am not this body.
So Kṛṣṇa is giving chance, whatever you want, but He is talking also the ultimate goal of life. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: (BG 18.66) "You give up this searching out of your happiness in your own way, by transmigrating from one kind of life to another, one position to another. You just take shelter of Me, and I take charge of you." This is the whole proposition of Bhagavad-gītā. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. One has to give up searching out of happiness according to his own plan, but he has to submit himself to Kṛṣṇa, who will take charge and He will give you all happiness that you desire. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Now, the student goes to learn from the teacher A, B, C, D. The teacher says "This is A," but the student has to accept that this is A. The student cannot argue, "So why not this way?" That is not a student. When a teacher says that this A, so you have to accept this is A, you cannot argue. That is the relationship between the student and the teacher. A student cannot argue. The teacher says, "This is A," the student has to accept that is A. He cannot argue. If he argues, then he cannot learn. That is the first proposition.
Miseries. And yoga-yukto munir brahma na cireṇādhigacchati. But one who is dovetailed with Kṛṣṇa consciousness, even he is at home... It was particularly said to Arjuna that "You are thinking that you are, you'll not fight. Better, you are thinking, that you shall beg instead of killing your kinsmen. You do not want kingdom. But that is not a practical proposition. You, you, you just try to understand why you have to fight. What is the cause?" That means He was giving hint that "You'll have to fight for Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then you'll get happiness. Simply by leaving, simply by becoming mendicant, it will not help you."
So when that relationship will be revealed in the process of devotional activities, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you should know that is the perfection of your life. That is the perfection of our life.
So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is a great science. It is not a sentiment or mental speculation or bluff. It is based on scientific proposition, as described in the Bhagavad-gītā, as described in the Vedas, as described in the Saṁhitās, as accepted by the authorities like Lord Caitanya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nārada, Asita, Vyāsa. There are so many authorities. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not an ordinary bluff-making or a money-making business. It is something reality. And if you take to it seriously, your life will be successful.
Not very, I mean to say, clear. Something vague. So this will not help. Here is positive proposition, that you concentrate on the form of Kṛṣṇa. Mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha. Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntar-ātmanā śraddhāvān... Antar-ātmanā (BG 6.47). One has to fix up the form... Actual yoga system is to concentrate on the form of Viṣṇu. Dhyānāvasthita-tad-gatena manasā. By... Meditation means to concentrate the mind without being diverted to any other subject. Simply thinking of Lord Viṣṇu. That is the yoga meditation recommended in Vedic literature. So here also, Kṛṣṇa says "Me." Kṛṣṇa and Viṣṇu, the same. Viṣṇu is expansion of Kṛṣṇa. So when we concentrate our mind upon Kṛṣṇa, Viṣṇu is included there. Go on.
Generally, whole human society, especially at the present moment, nobody cares for perfection of life. They do not know what is perfection of life. Just like animals, they do not know what is perfection of life. They think perfection of life: to gratify the senses. "We have got these senses. Let us..." Because they have no idea that there is life after death. Therefore their only proposition is, "Now we have got this life and we have got these senses. Let us enjoy it to the fullest extent." This is their perfection. But actually, that is not perfection. Perfection means, self-realization means to know that ahaṁ brahmāsmi, "I am not this matter; I am spirit soul." To understand this. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā (BG 18.54).
This is material life. They cannot conceive of the omnipotency. They accept God is omnipotent, but they cannot understand what is that omnipotency. The omnipotency is that so many things are being manifested by the Kṛṣṇa's energies, but Kṛṣṇa is not lost. Kṛṣṇa is there. We haven't got to worship so many things, pantheism. No. That is not our... Pantheism, the same idea, that "Kṛṣṇa, or the Absolute Truth, has become divided into so many ways; therefore everything combined together is the Absolute Truth," this is the theory of pantheism. But ours is Vedic proposition, that Kṛṣṇa is the cause of everything. Varieties of material and spiritual things are there, but Kṛṣṇa's identity is there in Vṛndāvana. Vṛndāvanaṁ parityajya padam ekaṁ na gacchati. Kṛṣṇa is there. Akhilātma-bhūtaḥ. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ (Bs. 5.37). That is stated.
The whole universe is like that.
So here it is explained, mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam. This is God's impersonal expansion. When we cannot understand God, then we come first to the impersonal feature, everywhere, pantheism, which is known as, in philosophical terms, pantheism. There are different, I mean to say, ideas, and philosophical proposition. So this mayā tatam idam. But the pantheists, because the materialist think of limited... (coughs) They think that "God is everywhere. Therefore there is no personal God." No, that is foolish, foolishness. He is everywhere, it is explained here. Mayā tatam idaṁ sarvam: "By Me..." Mayā means, "by me." "By Me, or by My energy, I am expanded everywhere." Mayā, this word, it is causative. Causative means I have caused. The example is... If you want to understand, the example is very simple. Just like as soon as the sun is risen, immediately the sunshine is expanded.
So if you understand God, then the energies are automatically understood. Kasmin tu bhagavo vijñāte sarvam idaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavati. This is the Vedic injunction. If you try to understand God, then His energies also will be understood by you. If you know the root, if you water on the root of the tree, then the tree, whole tree, becomes luxuriantly flourished. So our proposition is: you take the root, Kṛṣṇa, and you will understand everything properly from the root. If you want to understand the tree, whole tree, you try to understand it from the root, not from the top. So disease, any disease, if you understand the root cause of the disease you can give proper medicine and he's cured.
So the law is that according to your work you'll get your next life. It may be higher standard of life, it may be lower standard of life. So suppose higher standard of life, if we get, that's all right, but if we get lower standard of life... Just like today I am here and next life if I get the body of a tree and stand up for five thousand years, is it very nice proposition? In this way we have to understand how the process of life is going on and what is wanted, what is not wanted. In this way, when you are situated, fixed up in your spiritual understanding, that is called anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt, all unwanted things are vanquished.
So our request is that you live here, very simple life. Kṛṣṇa will supply all your necessities. He's supplying to the birds and beasts, why not to you, devotee? Be confident that you'll get everything, whatever the necessities of life. Live without any sinful activities. Don't create unwanted troubles. That is called anartha-nivṛttiḥ syāt.
Even the most insignificant person, he thinks of himself as very important. Nobody wants to submit to anyone. This propensity is very prominent in this age, Kali-yuga.
Therefore it is called Kali-yuga, means disagreement. "Why shall I accept your proposition? I am also independent, I can think independently." This is the general propensity. But to understand the transcendental subject matter, one has to become submissive. That is the first qualification because the disease is that nobody is submissive. Nobody wants to be lower than anybody else. Although he is insignificant, he has no value, but still—this is called māyā—he thinks himself to be very elevated, learned.
Otherwise there be chaos and that is the position at the present moment. People are not happy. Although there is enough money in Western countries. Enough enjoyable things. And we see in other countries like Australia and Africa, there is enough potency of producing food and grains and milk. So this rascal proposition that population has increased, there is scarcity of... These are all rascal proposition. God has enough potency to give you ten times food you want. But because we have created chaos in the world, without following the Kṛṣṇa consciousness, there is trouble.
So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is all-around solution, over-all solution of all problems. Therefore our request is... Those who are actually leaders, thoughtful, they should take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement very seriously, study its philosophy and try to spread it as far as possible, according to his own capacity. Thank you very much. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)
There is no milk, there is no ghee, there is no rice. This is the position of Kali-yuga.
So therefore in this age, if we want to save ourselves from this onslaught of this age, the proposition is kaler doṣa-nidhe rājann asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ. Parīkṣit Mahārāja was informed by Śukadeva Gosvāmī, "My dear King, I have described about the faulty nature of this age." Kaler doṣa-nidhi. Doṣa-nidhi means an ocean of faults. "But there is one good opportunity." Kaler doṣa-nidhe rājann asti hy eko mahān guṇaḥ. "There is one good quality." What is that? Kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet (SB 12.3.51). Simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, one can become free from all this contamination and he can go back to home, back to Godhead." This is another advantage of Kali-yuga. In other yuga one has to undergo so much severe austerity, penances. Then one can realize. But in this age the things have been made easy.
So everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam (ISO 1). Whatever we are trying to enjoy, it is stolen property. The philosophy is tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā. You can enjoy whatever is allotted to you by Kṛṣṇa. Tene tyak... Mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam. Don't try to encroach upon other's property. This is real proposition for peace and prosperity. But we are trying to become the biggest enjoyer, and we are trying to encroach upon others' property, others' life, others' jurisdiction. Therefore there is no peace. There cannot be peace.
Therefore if we want peace at all, this is the formula. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram, suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānām (BG 5.29). Kṛṣṇa is the suhṛt; He is well-wisher of everyone. Therefore he comes, because he is well-wisher of all living entities, because living entities are His sons. Everyone... Father is always well-wisher of the son. So we are trying to enjoy here falsely, which we cannot do. Therefore Kṛṣṇa comes to give us advice. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66).
Then what is the difference? Therefore, household luxury is allowed up to fiftieth year in order to learn, pañcaśordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet. That is Vedic system. Not to remain householder until you are fired, you see, or you are taken by death. Just like our big leaders. They won't give up their householder's life unless he is fired to death, or death takes him away. That is not very good proposition. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that this householder life means it is a concession for sense gratification. That's all. But our position is that we should not continue sense gratification for all the life. The sense gratification process is going on by the hogs and dogs throughout the whole life, but we should not be like hogs and dogs. We should cease at a certain time. Pañcaśordhvaṁ vanaṁ vrajet. So far, no more. That should be our model. Not that continue. That, that is Vedic way of life. Pravṛttiṁ-nivṛtti. So long pravṛtti, attraction for household life, and next nivṛtti, "Now I shall be detached." But the asuras, as it is said, pravṛttiṁ ca nivṛttiṁ ca na vidur āsurāḥ janāḥ (BG 16.7).
The idea is that a bhakta does not require any material happiness or distress. He does not require any monistic proposition to merge into the existence of the Supreme. And neither he desires any jugglery of aṣṭa-siddhi yoga. So in order to become devatā, not to become asura... Asuras are always against Kṛṣṇa. There are many examples like Rāvaṇa, and Hiraṇyakaśipu, Kaṁsa. There are many. So we should remember that devatā means who is fully surrendered to the lotus feet of Kṛṣṇa. So there are many symptoms of the asuras. They are all described in the Sixteenth Chapter. It requires a long time to discuss. It is not possible to discuss all the symptoms. But one of the most important symptom of the asura is here described, asatyam apratiṣṭhaṁ te jagad āhur anīśvaram (BG 16.8). Their main proposal is that there is no creator God.
This is a false logic, chance. Nothing takes place by chance. That is sound reasoning. Chance means ignorant. One who does not know, he says chance. That is ignorance. That is not knowledge. Knowledge is different thing. So they are rascals, you can say. This kind of logic, "I have not seen. It has come by chance. There was a chunk," these are all nonsensical proposition. There is īśvara. This is sound knowledge. As you conclude by seeing the arrangement in the Tokyo city there is government, similarly, if you are intelligent enough, then you can understand there must be a controller. That is theism. That is knowledge.
Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate (BG 7.19). Therefore this foolish class of men who are simply studying, they want time to find out, but actually if he is wise, if he is searching out regularly by wise conclusion, then, at some time, he will come to the conclusion, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante: after many births of research work, he will come to this conclusion that there is God, Vāsudeva. Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahātmā sudurlabhaḥ (BG 7.19).
Trivikrama: If Indra met you, then there would be some benefit for him. (break)
Prabhupāda: Our proposition is that suppose if you know the president of Japan... Who is the president? A king or president here?
Japanese man: King, emperor.
Prabhupāda: If you know the emperor, you can... Then what is the use of knowing the constable?
Trivikrama: You understand? If you know the prime minister or the head man, then the less important man is not necessary to know. So because Śrīla Prabhupāda knows Kṛṣṇa, it is not important...
Prabhupāda: So what is the use of meeting others? That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajante anya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20). They go to other demigods, to meet, for some benefit, their knowledge being lost, hṛta-jñānāḥ. Just like if I want some benefit in your Japanese state and if I know the emperor, I can ask him, "I want it." Why shall I go to some departmental manager? What is the use? Let them become very big man in their department, but if I want to take some benefit, then I can... If I am known to the emperor, I can ask him that "I want this." He will immediately give me. Why shall I go to the departmental manager? They are subordinate. Therefore it is said, kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajante anya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20).
No, we differ from Śaṅkarācārya. We follow Kṛṣṇa. We do not follow Śaṅkarācārya. So if you think Śaṅkarācārya is better than Kṛṣṇa, that is your opinion. We follow Kṛṣṇa. Śaṅkarācārya is not original person. Kṛṣṇa is original person. That is accepted by Vyāsadeva and all... Nārada, Devala. So our proposition is "Follow Kṛṣṇa." Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). The original person. Ādi-puruṣam. Govindam ādi-puruṣam. Śaṅkarācārya is, say, one thousand five hundred years, but Kṛṣṇa, He's the original puruṣa, before the creation. The creation was made... Śaṅkarācārya also admits in his commentary on the Bhagavad-gītā: nārāyaṇaḥ paraḥ avyaktāt. And he accepts Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead: sa bhagavān svayaṁ kṛṣṇaḥ. So you cannot supersede Kṛṣṇa by accepting Śaṅkarācārya. Śaṅkarācārya admits, sa bhagavān svayaṁ kṛṣṇaḥ. So Śaṅkarācārya admits Kṛṣṇa is the authority, but Kṛṣṇa says that this material body is prakṛti. How you can say it is puruṣa? Kṛṣṇa says that bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ, bhinnā me prakṛtir aṣṭadhā: (BG 7.4)
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. But ultimately the last instruction is that "This is the secret of success, My dear Arjuna," guhyatamam. "You simply surrender unto Me, and I shall give you all protection." Mā śucaḥ, "Don't bother." This is required. This is the beginning of God consciousness. So unless we have finished nicely the study of Bhagavad-gītā or unless we have accepted this proposition of God that "You surrender," there is no entrance in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is bhāgavata-dharma. Bhāgavata-dharma means one who has at least understood what is God. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu begins His teaching where Kṛṣṇa ended. Kṛṣṇa and Caitanya Mahāprabhu, the same Personality of Godhead. As Kṛṣṇa, He demanded... Because God can demand like that. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: (BG 18.66) "You just surrender unto Me." What God can say? God cannot say that "You jump over My head."
Some rascal philosopher says Bhāgavata Purāṇa was compiled recently. How there is a reference within the Purāṇas? So this rascaldom has spoiled the whole Vedic culture. The so-called Westernized scholars... Because the real purpose was that the rulers(?), they did not want to present Indian culture as very old, because then their Darwin's theory will be spoiled. That was their nonsense proposition, that they are proposing that human brain is being developed. But if they accept that millions of years ago the brain was already there, then their rascals theory of Darwin will be spoiled.
So actual fact is this, that this verse Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, was compiled five thousand years ago. Not that Vyāsadeva manufactured something. All Vedic literatures were existing. Vyāsadeva only... Just like I am presenting. I am presenting the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. It is not it is manufactured by me, it is concocted by me, that I have introduced... Just like so many things are there—this samāja, that samāja, this samāja. We are not like that.
Young man has got a different body, old man has got a different body. So this is a fact, that the soul is there, but body is changing. Therefore the natural conclusion should be that when we leave this body, I take another body.
- There is no difficulty to understand this reasonable proposition of Bhagavad-gītā.
- dehino 'smin yathā dehe
- kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
- tathā dehāntara-prāptir
- dhīras tatra na muhyati
- (BG 2.13)
As dehāntaram, from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youthhood, is dehāntaram, another body, similarly, old man, when the body is very old, it cannot be used anymore, or the supply ingredients is almost finished, then this body we give up; we accept another body. Now this body we are changing from multiforms of bodies, jalajā nava-lakṣāni sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati kṛmayo rudra-saṅkyakāḥ, in this way 8,400,000 species of body we are changing.
Yahā kichu dharma nāme chole. So what is that? Bhāgavata kahe. He does not say, but he says on the authority of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. That is scholarship. A scholar will not speak anything as he is thinking. No. He will give authoritative quotation to support. That is Vedic system. When you support your proposition with the Vedic version, then it is accepted. Otherwise not. Veda pramāṇa.
So Vṛndāvana Dāsa Ṭhākura said bhāgavata kahe. He doesn't say, "In my opinion." Nowadays it has become a very good fashion, "I think." "In my opinion." Without knowing his own value, he gives his opinion. He does not know that he's imperfect. He's imperfect in his senses, he's liable to commit mistake, he's illusioned, and he's a cheater. Everyone knows that "How I am cheating the other party." Especially amongst businessmen, when there is conference, so each one is trying, "Now how much I have cheated him."
"Now how much I have cheated him." So this cheating, vipralipsā, is one of the qualification of the conditioned soul. Bhrama pramāda vipralipsā karaṇāpāṭava. So a person, authorized person in the line of disciplic succession, he does not speak by his own authority. Immediately he'll quote from the Vedic literature to support his proposition. So Vṛndāvana Dāsa Ṭhākura says bhāgavata kahe. He doesn't say that, "I say" or "In my opinion." No. Bhāgavata kahe taha pari purṇa chole.
- pṛthivīte yahā kichu dharma nāme cale
- bhāgavata kahe taha pari purṇa chole
So how is that Bhāgavata says? The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam you'll find, in the introductory portion, Vyāsadeva says, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra (SB 1.1.2). Atra, śrīmad-bhāgavate, kaitavo dharma, projjhita. Kaitava means cheating. Cheating type of religion is completely kicked out. Projjhita. Prakṛṣṭha rūpena ujjhita. Just like we sweep over the floor and throw away the dust just to make the floor very clean.
He is put into jail. Just like in America, Mr. Nixon. He was president, everything. Now everything is at risk. So we say that you become Nixon, you become prime minister, you become everything. We don't say... You make your profit, like that. But don't risk your life. That is our proposition. If after this life you are prime minister, you are very big man, and next life, if you become a dog, then what is the profit of your life? Śrama eva... That is explained here:
- dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ
- viṣvaksena-kathāsu yaḥ
- notpādayed yadi ratiṁ
- śrama eva hi kevalam
- (SB 1.2.8)
You do your work, duty. Dharma means duty. You are very dutiful. Do your duty nicely, but see by executing your duty whether you are developing your love for Kṛṣṇa. That is the criterion. If it is not done so, if you are in the blindness, then it is said that notpādayed yadi ratim. If you do not become attracted by Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then, śrama eva hi kevalam, simply you are wasting time.
So God is explaining Himself personally, and He is accepted by authorities, not only in days of yore, formerly, but recently within five hundred, seven hundred years, big, big ācāryas-Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī-big, big ācār..., stalwart, latest within five hundred years. Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, everyone accepts Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. And these rascals are searching out what is God. Just see their rascaldom! God is here, and he is searching. So those who are searching after God, and they are, if they are making some proposition, thesis, these are all nonsense, cheating. You do not know God. You admit. That is very good. But why you are making thesis? God is not subjected to your mental speculation.
The same thing he is doing. He does not know the real business is how to get out of this entanglement of pavarga, repetition of birth, death, old age and disease. He does not know. There is no science, there is no education. There is only education in the Bhagavad-gītā. Therefore you have to, if you want to save the world, if you want to save the human civilization, you have to make to this proposition of Bhagavad-gītā, learn it scientifically, and make your life successful.
That is nonsense. So Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied because your business is how to satisfy Hari, and Hari says, Kṛṣṇa says, that you surrender. That will satisfy Kṛṣṇa, not that you falsely claim that "I am Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is now dead, and now I have come." These rascals will not satisfy Kṛṣṇa.
So this is our proposition. Svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam (SB 1.2.13). It does not matter, varṇāśrama-dharma, eight categories, four social and four spiritual or four material and four spiritual, but when the material activities are enacted for spiritual advancement, then it is no more material; it is spiritual. Actually there is nothing material. Material means forgetfulness of Kṛṣṇa, that's all. Otherwise there is nothing material. It is called buddhi-bheda, means those who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious thoroughly, they have got distinction "This is spiritual; this is material." But when you are fully, ekatvam anupaśyataḥ (ISO 7). That is stated in the Īśopaniṣad.
That is not reactionary. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna... Now, the Lord says that you become free from the reaction of your activities. That is the proposition. Now, at the same time, He's inducing Arjuna to fight. Now, fighting is on the platform, on the modes of passion. Does it mean that simultaneously Kṛṣṇa is inducing him to be entangled in the reaction of passion modes? No. That action, even apparently appears to be act, being acted on the platform of passion, it is transcendental because it is direction of the supreme consciousness. So whole thing is that we have to... Just like... Same example can be cited, that a soldier is killing his enemy, and the soldier's rewarded, "Oh, you have killed such a big enemy. You are rewarded." Do you mean to say by killing one is rewarded? But he is not acting on his platform. He's acting on higher consciousness platform, higher order. So if a commander's order can give him immunity from the reaction of being hanged, why not God's command? That is the thing. So we have, we haven't to discriminate whether I am in the modes of ignorance or passion or goodness. No. We have simply to see whether I'm acting under the direction of the supreme consciousness. That is the thing to be seen. Then we are free. Then our life becomes free. That thing, we have to learn. Yes?
Then after giving up this body, undoubtedly you go back to Kṛṣṇa, go back to home back to Godhead.
This is the proposition, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Otherwise, these changes of Manu, changes of millennium, changes of devastation... In every... Manvantara. At the end of Manu, there is another devastation. Pralaya-samplave, cākṣuṣodadhi-samplave. After the span of life of Cākṣuṣa Manu, there is another inundation. And then again everything comes out gradually and the water dries. Just like you see the Pacific Ocean, it is drying. Of course, we shall not live, but if hundreds years after, if somebody comes here, he will see that the Los Angeles city has expanded and the Pacific Ocean has diminished. This is going on. In this way, one day will be, there will be no Pacific Ocean. And therefore, without water, everyone will die.
You'll never be happy. Because the whole thing has begun-Vyāsadeva was unhappy. Even after producing a literature like Vedānta-sūtra, he was not happy, and Nārada is giving him instruction how to become happy. Here is the answer, that "If you do not accept this proposition, that you have simply to be in the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then vipakṣe, it is just against your welfare." Vipakṣe doṣāntaram ahaḥ tataḥ urukramasya viceṣṭitam pṛthag dṛśaḥ, athaiva anyathā prakarantrena yat kiñcit athāntaram vipakṣyatha taya vibaksaya itaiḥ sphuritaiḥ nāmabhis ca bhaktabhya:(?) "So whatever little activities of Kṛṣṇa you have described..."
Just like people are understanding... By reading Bhagavad-gītā, somebody is taking Kṛṣṇa as a great politician. Everyone accept Kṛṣṇa as a great personality, but somebody's accepting Him as a great politician, a great diplomat, or in this way, according to one's angle of vision.
So Nārada Muni says that "What is this, marriage ceremony? The marriage ceremony is to allow the boy and the girl for legitimate sex life. That's all. So that propensity he has already got. And what is the use of making such propaganda and spending so much money?" Very practical proposition. But in the śāstras there are. Similarly, drinking or meat-eating. According to Vedic śāstra, meat-eating is not allowed by purchasing from the slaughterhouse. No. They... There is motive. The marriage ceremony or the meat-eating, the so much ritualistic performances, there is motive. What is that motive? Motive is restriction. Just like the same example, marriage: the real idea is to restrict the boy and the girl to one woman and one man. That is the idea, main idea. If he's not married, then he will be just like cats and dogs. So idea is very good. But Nārada Muni says, "After all, you're coming to the point of sex life. So why so much propaganda?"
He did not say that "I am using it for long time." No. "It is new. I have purchased." That's all right. Yes. But Kali-yuga is so implicated that sometimes we have to speak the untruth. But it is the business of the brāhmaṇa to speak the truth. No untruth.
So, so in this way our proposition is that if we want perfection, then in whatever position we are, either I am a brāhmaṇa, or I am a kṣatriya, or I am a vaiśya, or I am a śūdra—it doesn't matter, if we simply take this vow, that Kṛṣṇa is the original cause of everything... A śūdra is also a, the original cause is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa says in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that He is the cause of the śūdras. You should not hate anyone, because everyone is born of Kṛṣṇa. Ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4). Kṛṣṇa says. Sarva-yoniṣu. It doesn't matter in what form the living entity is there, but Kṛṣṇa claims that He is the father, He is the father. So either brāhmaṇa or kṣatriya or vaiśya or śūdra or mleccha, yavana, or white, black, European, American—anyone—he should know that the original cause is Kṛṣṇa. This is perfection of life.
Because in future people will misinterpret. Therefore the author of Brahma-sūtra, Vyāsadeva, made natural a comment. And that comment is Brahma-sūtra bhāṣya, the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Don't be misguided by rascals, that "Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is written by somebody else. It is not written by Vyāsadeva." These are rascals proposition. This is given by Śrī Vyāsadeva, and he is the author of Brahma-sūtra. Lokasyājānato vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitām (SB 1.7.6). This is sātvata-saṁhitām.
So we have tried to explain this sātvata-saṁhitām in English for study of the whole world, because English can be understood, or it can be translated easily. So these activities are going on. And we are very much thankful to you that you are cooperating. So in India you may find some difficulty. Still, your valuable cooperation is required for the benefit of the whole world. Lokasyājānato vidvāṁś cakre sātvata-saṁhitām.
This is the relationship. We are trying to become master here, everyone. Kṛṣṇa says, "You give up this idea. You are planning so many things, to become master of the world, 'I am the monarch of all I survey.' Give up this idea. Then you'll be in proper position." Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekam (BG 18.66). That means "I am master. If you want to be peaceful, then accept this proposition that I am master; you are servant." Therefore Yāmunācārya said, kadāham aikāntika-nitya-kiṅkaraḥ praharṣayiṣyāmi sanātha-jīvitam: "I have troubled myself in so many lives, therefore," bhavantam evānucaran nirantaraḥ praśānta-niḥśeṣa-mano-rathāntaraḥ. He's praying, "My Lord, when I shall be constantly Your servant?" Bhavantam evānucaran nirantaraḥ. Nirantara means "always." Praśānta-niḥśeṣa-mano-rathāntaraḥ. We are being conducted by the mental speculation. So completely śānta, no more mental speculation. Bhavantam evānucaran nirantaraḥ praśānta-niḥśeṣa-mano-rathāntaraḥ. Kadāham aikāntika-nitya-kiṅkaraḥ.
"My prosperity depends on the mercy of God," they're pious. They're pious. Because, after all, without sanction of God, nothing can be achieved. That's a fact. Tāvad tanur idaṁ tanūpekṣitānām(?). That is also statement of That we have discovered so many counter-acting methods for diminishing our distressed condition, but if it is not sanctioned by God, these counteracting proposition will fail.
The example is... Just like you have discovered nice medicine, very qualified physician. That's all right. But when a man is sick, ask the physician: "Can you guarantee the life of this patient?" He'll never say: "No, I can do so. I cannot do that. I try my best. That's all." That means the sanction is in the hand of God. "I am simply instrument. If God does not like that you should live, then all my medicines, all my scientific knowledge, medical knowledge, will fail." The ultimate sanction is Kṛṣṇa's. They, the foolish persons, they do not know. They are, they are, therefore they are called mūḍha, rascals.
That is also killing. If one is demon, and if you can turn into a devotee by your logic, by your arguments, then that is also, he's killed, his demonic principle is killed—now he's a saintly person. That is also killing. Not that... Kali-yuga, they're already very poverty-stricken, poor. So this physical killing is too much for them. They should be killed by argument, reason, scientific proposition.
This should be one of the propaganda of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Because these people, the so-called scientists and philosophers, is misleading-misleading in this sense that they have no information that everything is coming out from life. They are proposing that everything is coming from matter. Their basic principle, the original cause, original cause, they are find out some material adjustment. The other day our, in the California University, one big man came. He's proposing same thing. So our Svarūpa Dāmodara proposed that "If we supply you all the ingredients, can you produce life?" He said, "I do not know." You see.
That is... The Vedānta-sūtra says, janmādy asya yataḥ (SB 1.1.1). Whatever you are experiencing, wherefrom it has come? It has come from the Absolute. That is the Absolute idea. But here, in the relative world, it is pervertedly reflected, and because it is not reality, therefore you are confused, baffled. So our proposition is come to the reality. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The same dancing... Just like here is a picture, Kṛṣṇa is dancing with the gopīs. We also like, anybody of us here. Even in old age they are dancing with young girls. In Paris there is club. All going to die, such old men, they are coming in the club, paying fifty dollars as entrance fee; then they have to pay for young girls and wine. But still, they come. They cannot actually enjoy. Vayasi gate kim yuvati nārī:(?) "When one is old man, what is the use of mixing with young girls?" Yes. But they like it. They like it. They pay for it. But they do not enjoy, Because if they have enjoyed, they would have been satisfied, but they are not satisfied. Frustrated.
And they are advancement of knowledge. They are claiming advancement of knowledge. What knowledge you have got? You do not know what you are, and you are advancement in knowledge.
Therefore Sanātana Gosvāmī, who was prime minister of Nawab Hussein Shah, when he approached Caitanya Mahāprabhu, his first proposition was that, grāmya-vyavahāre paṇḍita, tāi satya māni: "My dear Sir, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, some neighboring people, they call me, I am a very learned scholar." Grāmya-vyavahāre. "In ordinary behavior, they call me, I am very learned scholar. But I do not know what I am, I am such a scholar." This is the submission. This is called submission. Everyone is puffed up, that "I know. I know everything. So there is no need of going to a guru." This is the method to approach a guru, spiritual master: surrender, that "I know so many rubbish things which are useless. Now kindly teach me." This is called submission. Just like Arjuna said, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam (BG 2.7).
This is renunciation. Because for a Kṛṣṇa conscious person, to waste even a moment of life without Kṛṣṇa consciousness is a great dangerous action. Not only... anyone who is interested for higher level of position. He should be very careful of using every moment of life. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita's advice, moral instruction of Cāṇakya Paṇḍita, he says, practical proposition,
- āyuṣaḥ kṣaṇa eko 'pi
- na labhyaḥ svarṇa-koṭibhiḥ
- sa cen nirarthakaṁ nītaḥ
- kā nu hānis tato 'dhikaḥ
He is advising that our duration of life, that is limited. It is, by destiny, limited. Therefore in the horoscope it is said that "So many years this man will live." That's fact.
That is also Vṛndāvana. If you worship the Deity very rigidly, follow the rules and regulations, so wherever you do, that is Vṛndāvana. Especially this Vṛndāvana dhāma, where Kṛṣṇa actually appeared. So this is Vṛndāvana, Goloka Vṛndāvana. Here, those who will manage this institution, they must be first-class gosvāmīs. This is my proposition. Not gṛhamedhi. Not gṛhamedhi. Gosvāmī. As...
Because this place was excavated by the gosvāmīs, ṣaḍ-gosvāmī. Sanātana Gosvāmī came here, Rūpa Gosvāmī came here. And then other Gosvāmīs, Jīva Gosvāmī, Gopāla Bhaṭṭa Gosvāmī, Raghunātha dāsa Gosvāmī, all joined together for executing the order of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu—to write books about Kṛṣṇa, His pastimes, His līlā; very, I mean to say, highly spiritual understanding books they wrote.
That is explained there. That is their meditation. Is it not? Does not somebody meditate like that? They do not take actual, whether actually he is able to move the sun and moon, but foolishly thinking like that. They are taught that "If you simply think like that, then one day you will become." How impractical proposition.
Our proposition, that we also think about Kṛṣṇa's pastimes in order to enter into Kṛṣṇa con..., but not to become Kṛṣṇa, but to be allowed into the eternal pastimes of Kṛṣṇa, nitya-līlā-praviṣṭha. Our thinking, we are thinking of Kṛṣṇa's pastimes, sadā tad-bhāva-bhāvitaḥ (BG 8.6), not to become Kṛṣṇa, even not to become the cowherd boy. Ours is always—we want to become the servant of the cowherd boy. Those who are thinking of becoming gopī, the maidservant of another gopī. That is our proposition. If I think that "I shall become mother Yaśodā," that is also Māyāvāda.
That is also Māyāvāda, exactly like that, if one thinks that "I shall become Kṛṣṇa." Our only proposition is how to be engaged in the service of Kṛṣṇa. That is explained.
So if there is difficulty, we should discuss among ourselves and clear it, but there must be thorough discussion and understanding. And the president of the center, he should be able to answer the questions of other members. If he is unable, then he should ask the local general secretary. Then, at last, it should come to me, not that all the questions are going to me directly and "We are simply busy, vouchers and reports." So these things should be very carefully noted. The president means he must be very expert. He should be... Secretaries, they should be all expert in reading. This is our main business, to study, to know things. Otherwise, what is this? Now, this boy is asking question means he should have asked question to the senior members. What is your next question?
"Let me come fifty miles and take this wild bird toasted. Very tasteful." Because their life will be finished, "So whatever taste and enjoyment I can enjoy, let me finish it, because after this body is finished, everything will be finished." But our is not The body may finish, but our spiritual enjoyment is there if we get our spiritual consciousness. This is our proposition. We will get varieties of enjoyment. Chale-bale lāḍḍhu kha śrī-madhumaṅgala. There is only store in lāḍḍu and kachori in Vṛndāvana. Rabri. Makhana. Kṛṣṇa is makhanacora. Makhana thief is the All right.
Then how I shall be able to understand? The conclusion is mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ (CC Madhya 17.186). You follow the mahājana. Out of these twelve mahājana, you follow any one of them, and you will be successful.
So our proposition is that Kṛṣṇa is the original mahājana. Kṛṣṇa instructed Brahmā. Brahmā is also mahājana. And Kṛṣṇa instructed everyone. Just like Bhagavad-gītā. He is instructing everyone. How? Aham ādir hi devānām: (Bg 10.2) "All the demigods, they are subordinate to Me." Aham ādiḥ: "I am the original." Everyone has learned from Kṛṣṇa. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said, tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye. So Kṛṣṇa is teaching personally just like Kapiladeva is teaching personally. So you take Kapiladeva's philosophy, Sāṅkhya philosophy, Kṛṣṇa's philosophy, Bhagavad-gītā, but try to understand as He says. Don't interpret in the wrong way.
Don't try to gather knowledge through these naked senses. Try to gather knowledge just like how creation is made. And that is stated here by the authorities, Kapiladeva. And if you take it, then your knowledge is perfect. And if you imagine, "Perhaps there was a chunk, and there was this, there was that"—all nonsense. At least we, Kṛṣṇa conscious men, we don't accept this nonsensical proposition. Our knowledge is derived-tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva abhigacchet (MU 1.2.12). This is Vedic injunction. "If you want to know perfectly, if you want to have perfect knowledge," tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva, "you must approach guru." Here is guru, Kapiladeva, or Kṛṣṇa, God. God is guru, original guru. God gave lessons to Brahmā. Brahmā gave lessons to Nārada. Nārada gave lessons to Vyāsadeva. Vyāsadeva gave lessons to us. This is Vyāsadeva's contribution. And if you follow this disciplic succession, then you get perfect knowledge. Otherwise, if you speculate, then you are in darkness, tamasi. What power you have got? All your senses are imperfect.
And as soon as there is water there is jihvā, the sense of touch, rasa-graha, which can taste. Jihvā is meant for tasting. So this is the way of physical manifestation of different ways. But on the background there is daiva-codita. Everything is coming into existence on account of superior management or superior impelling. That is the main proposition, that mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ (BG 9.10). These things we..., physical transformation, different ways, we experience. That is the phenomenal world. But these things are taking place not automatically but daiva-coditāt, by superior intervention, impelled by the superior Personality of Godhead.
That is irresponsible life. But if a human being is responsible, if he actually wants healthy life—healthy life means without birth, death, old age and disease... That is healthy life. Our conception of healthy life is not to become too much fatty, or robust body. Robust body or fatty body or any body, this body, everything will finish. Our proposition is that how to conquer death, birth, old age and disease. That is our proposition. So if one is serious to conquer over these four principles of life and desiring eternal nonstoppage happiness and pleasure—the same thing, pleasure means there is... The same... Just like the pleasure in a hotel dancing, that is also pleasure. And here also, Hare Kṛṣṇa dancing, there is also pleasure. But the standard of pleasure is different. Standard of pleasure is different.
So this whole Kṛṣṇa conscious movement is nothing to stop, but to change the standard of pleasure, from the standard of temporary, flickering pleasure to the permanent, eternal pleasure. That is the program of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Of course, we cannot expect that everyone will accept this philosophy, but we are trying. If some percentage of the population takes this movement seriously, the face of the world will be changed.
Thank you very much. Any question? No question? Then I understand that you accept my proposition without any difference of opinion. (laughs) That's nice. Unanimously accepted. That's nice. But if you have got any difficulty to understand, you can make questions. I shall try to convince you. Yes.
Scientist means you must be godless. This is going on. Therefore we are making so much propaganda against these rascal scientists. We are presenting... They are putting this theory that life is born out of chemicals. We are putting the counter theory: "No. Life is born of life, never from chemicals." Our scientist students, they are writing the book, you know. And so our proposition is: anyone against the authority of God, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, we must strongly criticize him and take to task. This is our business. Just like Hanumān, Vajrāṅgajī. He took very severely to punish Rāvaṇa. What was the fault? He was godless. He was against Rāma. Therefore he took it very seriously and set fire to his beautiful kingdom, Laṅkā.
These are bogus proposition. It has no meaning. (laughter) It has no meaning. If you think within yourself, "I am eating," will you be satisfied? You starve and simply think, "I have eaten everything." (laughter) Is that very practical proposal? You must eat. We don't say all these bogus proposition. All right. Thank you very much. (end)
God is for human being or the birds, beasts, aquatics, insect, trees, plants, everyone. That is God. He says, sarva-yoniṣu: "In every species of life, whatever form may be, that doesn't matter," ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā (BG 14.4), He says, "I am the seed-give father." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
So our proposition is that we are somehow or other in an envelopment of so many mistakes. And therefore we are suffering. Suffering means due to ignorance. Just like a man does not know the law of the country... A civil instance:(?) just like here in London the car is driven from the left side, in America the car is driven by the right side. So suppose one comes from America, he's driving the car from the right side, the police arrest. "Why you arrest me, sir?" "Because you are driving on the right side." "That I know. I do not know that you have to drive left side." "That does not mean you are free from criminal charges. Come to the court." So this criminality is happened on account of ignorance. So any criminal person wrongly-guided means ignorance.
So you are arguing, "There is no life," but you do not know whether there is life. That is not in your knowledge. So supposing you have to take both the ways and think over it... You are simply thinking on the point that there is no life. Now, why don't you take my proposition, "If there is life"? Because you have not ascertained whether there is life. We say there is life. We take the example: just like this child has got his next life. The child may say, "There is no life next life." But actually that is not the fact. The fact is, there is life. The child will change this body and he will become a boy. And the boy will change this body; he will become young man. That is a fact. But by simply obstinacy if you say there is no life, that you can say. But take this argument: if there is life, then how much irresponsibly you are making your future life so dark? The same example: if a child does not go to school, does not take education, if he thinks, "There is no other life than this life, I shall play all day. Why shall I go to school?"
Even one big economics professor, Professor Marshall, he says... I was student of economics, the Marshall book. He says that economic development begins out of family affection, family affection. That is the basis. That was his understanding, that nobody would work for livelihood unless he is attached in family. That is his proposition. So here he was attached to the family. Lālayānasya tat-sutān. Atha gṛhas kṣetra-sutāpta-vittair. Material bondage is that family affection. It is not that one has to give up this procedure. No. That is not. The Vedic civilization is so nice that you accept the platform which is suitable. The brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa... The spiritual... These are called āśrama. Āśrama means where spiritual culture is practiced. That is called āśrama. Perhaps you know this āśrama word. Āśrama means it is not a place for sense gratification; it is a place for advancing in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is āśrama.
Even one big economic, economist professor, Prof. Marshall, he says... I was student of economics in the Marshall book. He says that economic development begins out of family affection. Family affection. That is the basis. That was his understanding, that nobody would work for livelihood unless he is attached in family. That is his proposition. So here he was attached to the family. Lālayānasya tat-sutān. Ataḥ gṛha-kṣetra sutāpta vittaiḥ (SB 5.5.8). Material bondage is that family affection. It is not that one has to give up this procedure. No, that is not.
The Vedic civilization is so nice that you accept the platform which is suitable for you, brahmacārī, gṛhastha, vānaprastha, sannyāsa. The spiritual... These are called āśrama. Āśrama means where spiritual culture is practiced. That is called āśrama. Perhaps you know this āśrama word. Āśrama means... It is not a place for sense gratification. It is a place for advancing in Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is āśrama.
They are not foolish persons that you can cheat him. No, it is not possible. You must be actually Vaiṣṇava; then you are excused. Otherwise not. You cannot cheat. So they are being trained up to become actually Vaiṣṇavas, not a pseudo Vaiṣṇava, simply for earning livelihood. No. That is not our proposition. And those who are earning livelihood by presenting himself as false Vaiṣṇava, their condition is more condemned. My Guru Mahārāja used to say that "Instead of earning your livelihood by presenting yourself as a Vaiṣṇava, better you become a sweeper in the street and earn your livelihood. Don't cheat." That was the order of my Guru Mahārāja. "It is better to become a sweeper in the street than to become a false Vaiṣṇava." That is real philosophy.
"Therefore I am disclosing this to you."
Kṛṣṇa does not say everyone that sarva-dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66), only to a selected devotee. Because unless one is very highly elevated devotee, he cannot accept this proposition. He is puffed up with his material, contaminated life. That's all. "I am this. I am that. I am this. I am that. Why shall I surrender?" Actually they forgot. Dr. Radhakrishnan says, "This is sophistry, that Kṛṣṇa is demanding like that." He is proud of his becoming a great philosophy, but he does not know he is a fool number one. He comments on the Bhagavad-gītā in a different way. That he does not know. Therefore he is surprised: "How this gentleman, Kṛṣṇa, is asking to surrender? I am so proud. I am so learned." But this is the only process. What is that? He again explains it: man-manā bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. The same thing which was instructed in the Ninth...
Now, Prahlāda Mahārāja is describing how Kṛṣṇa consciousness can be practiced. His proposition is to his friends, young friends, that Kṛṣṇa conscious should be practiced from very childhood. And he has explained very nicely that as we grow, most of our time is wasted in so many ways. First of all he has analyzed that although we may have one hundred years of age duration of life, fifty years immediately gone because we sleep at night. And twenty years for playing, and twenty years for disease and other things. So twenty, twenty, plus fifty so out of hundred years, ninety years gone, wasted. Ten years. That ten years means great attachment. The more we become entangled in this materialistic attraction...
It is simply flickering flash only. Just like in the dream we see so many things, and in the morning we forget everything. This is subtle dream. And this existence, this bodily existence and relationship to this body, society, friendship, and love and so many things, they are also gross dream. It will finish. It will stay Just like dream stays for a few minutes or few hours when you are asleep, similarly, this gross dream also will remain, say, for few years. That's all. It is also dream. But actually we are concerned with the person who is dreaming or who is acting. So we have to take him out from this dream, gross and subtle. That is the proposition. So that can be done very easily by this process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and that is being explained by Prahlāda Mahārāja.
Then what I am? At the present moment I am identifying with this body, with this dress. (child disturbing) That is illusion. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke (SB 10.84.13). Bhāgavata says anyone who is identifying himself with this body, he's an ass. He's not even a human being. Actually it is so, because I am not this body. And the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā is with this proposition, that you are not this body. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). The body is growing because I am sitting within this body. A child grows so long the soul is there. If a child takes birth, dead body, it does not grow. That means the soul is not there. That is called dead. So this preliminary knowledge one has to learn. That is called brahma-jijñāsā. The Bhagavad-gītā begins from this point, that "I am not this body."
So this is... The function of human activity is to know oneself, what he is, and then begin his work. And if he works simply just like animal, eating, sleeping, mating and defending... These are animal activities.
Now, in order to approach a bona fide spiritual master, one must be very much disgusted with this material way of life. That is very nice qualification. Unless one is disgusted with this materialistic way of life, that actually in this materialistic way of life there is no happiness... This proposition must be convinced by one, that he should know certainly that "In the material way of life I cannot become happy." This is the first condition. Tasmād. Tasmād means "therefore." Similarly, in Vedānta-sūtra also, atha ataḥ brahma-jijñāsā. When we become fed up, disgusted with the materialistic way of life, natural inquiry is then "What is next?" That "next," in order to understand that "next," the Vedānta-sūtra says, the Vedic knowledge says that tasmād gurum evābhigacchet. Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta. Therefore one should seek after a bona fide spiritual master and learn there. That is the Vedic injunction.
Nectar of Devotion Lectures
Jagad āhur anīśvaram (BG 16.8). This is their first proposition. There is zero, asatyam. (pause) I, I... Asatyam apratiṣṭhaṁ te. They, they do not find out that there is a cause of this material manifestation. Without any cause. The materialistic scientists say, "There was a chunk, and..." What is that? Chunk theory? Come on. So that all of a sudden the chunk became disturbed and there was... And the creation came into existence. So jagad āhur anīśvaram (BG 16.8). "There is no God. There is no existence of God." Every religion says... The Christian religion also says, the Muhammadan religion says, the Hindu religion says that God created this cosmic manifestation or this material world. But the asuras will say, "There is no God. There is no creator." Jagad āhur anīśvaram (BG 16.8). Then?
As soon as there is question of enjoyment, there must be other party. You cannot enjoy alone. That is not possible. There must be other party. So you enjoy your life with Kṛṣṇa—either in sakhya-rasa or dāsya-rasa or vātsalya-rasa or ghastly rasa. Just like Bhīṣmadeva: he enjoyed Kṛṣṇa's association by ghastly rasa. As I was going to explain, that he decided to kill Arjuna with two propositions that "Either this day I shall kill Arjuna, or Kṛṣṇa has to break His promise and, to save His friend." That was his promise. So when Bhīṣmadeva was trying to kill Arjuna, his ratha, his chariot became shattered and Arjuna fell down. So when Kṛṣṇa saw, "Now Kṛṣṇa..., Arjuna is going to die," so immediately He took one wheel of the chariot and immediately appeared before Bhīṣmadeva: "Stop fighting; otherwise, I am going to kill you." So immediately Bhīṣmadeva gave up his weapons. So this is not breaking His promise, but this is another rasa, that Kṛṣṇa wanted to show Bhīṣma that "You wanted to break My promise. Now see, I am..., I have broken My promise. Are you all right?"
...but our proposition is that you cannot sacrifice Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Simply you become attached with modern things. That is our proposition. We don't... Our, our proposition is that you do modern things. That is the instruction of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam.
- ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā
- varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ
- svanuṣṭhitasya dharmasya
- saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam
- (SB 1.2.13)
Modern things, you do, but you try to see whether you have become perfect by doing these modern things. Now you are engaged in modern things, and instead of being perfect, next life you get a body of hog and dog, then what is the benefit of these modern things? (end)
They have given up even smoking cigarette, even drinking tea, coffee. So they are all, after being qualified, they are accepted as Vaiṣṇava and properly initiated. So they cannot be neglected as other than brāhmaṇas. That is not very good proposition. They are, according to śāstra, they are qualified. It may be due to some past habits, they may commit some mistake, unconsciously. Consciously, no Vaiṣṇava commits any mistake, but maybe due to habit. That is also protected by Kṛṣṇa. Api cet su-durācāro bhajate mām ananya-bhāk, sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). Even there are some discrepancies, but if the only one qualification is there, that he's sticking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness rigidly, he's sādhu. Sādhur eva sa mantavyaḥ (BG 9.30). He's not to be neglected. So these Europeans, Americans devotees, according to the enunciation given by Rūpa Gosvāmī, as it is supported by Lord Kṛṣṇa Himself, as it is supported by Śukadeva Gosvāmī, as it is supported by Sanātana Gosvāmī, as it is ordered by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, they are regularly initiated Vaiṣṇavas. They should not be neglected.
Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam is explicit narration of the Vedānta-sūtra. Bhāṣyaṁ brahma-sūtrānām **. So Indians especially should take advantage of this human form of life and spread this knowledge all over the world. Then the whole world will be peaceful and happy. That is our proposition. It is not a... I repeatedly say that this is not a religious cult, that we want to supersede another type of religion. That is not our business. Our aim is to make all people happy. Sarve sukhino bhavantu. This is the Vedic mission. Everyone should be happy. But they are trying to be happy, but they do not know how to, how to become... Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇum (SB 7.5.31). They are misguided. They cannot be happy without becoming Vaiṣṇava. This is open declaration in the śāstra. They cannot become happy. Na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā (SB 7.5.31). If they are trying to become happy otherwise, that is durāśayā, hopeless thing. It will never be fructified. It will never be successful. Na te viduḥ. They do not know. Therefore our business is to make them know that "This is the way of perfection. Take Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Make your life perfect. Be happy, and go back to home, back to Godhead." This is our mission. They do not know.
Open the doors. Open, fully open. Now we say simply by developing Kṛṣṇa consciousness every member in the society, human society, will be happy. This is our proposal. Now discuss on this point, whether actually people will be happy or unhappy. What is the counterargument? It should be understood by threadbare discussion, how Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement can make the whole society happy. This is the proposal. Now those who are not Kṛṣṇa conscious, what argument they will forward against this proposition? Yes.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
Actually there is next life because Kṛṣṇa says, and we can understand the philosophy by a little intelligence that there is next life. So our proposition is that "If you have got to prepare yourself for the next life, then why don't you take the trouble of preparing for going back to home, back to Godhead?" This is our proposition. You can prepare yourself to go to hell or heaven. That doesn't matter because that is also temporary. Kṣīṇe puṇye punar martya-lokaṁ viṣanti. After you have finished... Just like you may go to jail or to somewhere else. When your visa or time is finished, then you are free from such life. Similarly, even if we go to the heavenly planet, when the resultant action of our pious activities are finished, then again we are turned down here. So in this way sometimes higher planetary, sometimes lower planetary, we are traveling. Therefore our best business is: "Why not go back to home, back to Godhead?" Kṛṣṇa says, mad-yājino 'pi yānti mam: (BG 9.25) "Anyone who is Kṛṣṇa conscious, he comes to Me."
"It is dangerous atheism." His exact version is like that, bheda namiya bauddha haila nāstika. Vedāśraye nāstika-vāda bauddha ke adika. He says that "We call the Buddhists as atheists because the simple reason is that they do not accept Vedas." Lord Buddha, he denied, that "I don't care for the Vedas. I have got my this own proposition, that ahiṁsā. Nonviolence is the religion. That's all." So he did not accept Vedas. Therefore, those who are Vedantists, those who are followers of Vedas, they called Buddhist religion atheism. Atheism means anyone who does not believe in scriptures, standard scriptures. That is called atheism.
So Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that Buddha philosophy is atheism undoubtedly, but Śaṅkara philosophy is dangerous atheism because he is accepting Vedānta, but he is preaching atheism. He's accepting... Under the shelter of Vedānta, he's preaching atheism. So therefore they are more dangerous. Just like you are fighting with your enemies, that is very clear. "The other party is my enemy."
Their father is also not happy, because his boy has gone astray. The government is perturbed, bewildered, "What to do with these boys?"
Therefore, so long we shall want something for our sense gratification, without serving Kṛṣṇa we shall suffer. That is the proposition. In different ways we shall suffer. Therefore Kṛṣṇa very kindly, most confidential... Sarva-guhyatamam. Kṛṣṇa says Arjuna that "I am talking to you most confidential matter." What is that? Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇam (BG 18.66). "This is the secret of life. Don't bother yourself in this way and that way. That is the secret. You simply become surrendered unto Me." Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi: "I am giving you guarantee. You have committed so many sinful activities life after life, and you'll suffer life after life. But if you surrender unto Me, I give you protection, guaranteed." Mā śucaḥ: "Don't be worried." Why don't you take this path? This is the way. Viṣṇu-śakti.
So this is the proposition to the spiritual master, that one must submit that "Actually, I do not know what I am. Am I this body or something else?" I am not this body, that I can understand, because I say, when somebody asks... Even a child, you ask, "My dear child, what is this?" he will say, "It is my finger." He'll never say, "I finger," what to speak of others. If every one of us, we say, "This is my hair, this is my nose," then where is "I"? He doesn't inquire "Where is I?" Then there will be analysis of the body, where is that "I"? Everyone knows "my," but who knows "I"? That is education. That is being submitted by Sanātana Gosvāmī. Ke āmi kene āmāya jāre tāpa-traya. So tāpa-traya means three kinds of miserable condition: ādhyātmika, ādhibhautika, ādhidaivika. Ādhyātmika means pertaining to the body and mind. Sometimes we are feeling some ailments in the body-mind is not in good order. This is called ādhyātmika. And ādhibhautika. Ādhibhautika means miseries inflicted by other living entities. Just like there are mosquitos, there are flies, there are birds, there are other animals, or other enemies in the human society: my friend has become enemy, so he's trying to give me some displeasure.
God is dead? Things are going on. Just like the heat and light is there; therefore, even though you are within the room, you can understand the sun is there. Or even there is cloud covering the sun, that does not mean the sun is not there. So it is simply foolishness. We say sometimes that "There is no God. Can you show me? I have not seen God." These are all rascals' propositions. When we see... Any foreign country, you see that a city is maintained very nicely, the police is there, the light is there, the green light, the red light is there—we can immediately understand that there is government. Any sane man, how he can say that government is dead? This is foolishness. There cannot be any question of "God is dead." If you say "I cannot see Him," so you cannot see even the government head man. Can you see the President always? But you have to accept that there is a system of government; therefore the head of the government is there.
Kṛṣṇera svarūpa ananta. The transcendental forms of Kṛṣṇa, innumerable, vaibhava, and His opulence, that is also innumerable. Nobody can estimate. How many forms are there of Kṛṣṇa or how much opulent He is, nobody can estimate; nobody can measure. This is inconceivable. The first proposition. Cic-chakti māyā-śakti jīva-śakti āra. And His potencies are also unlimited, out of which, three potencies are generally accepted: cit-śakti, spiritual potency; material potency; and marginal potency. These three potencies I have described many times. Cit-śakti, the spiritual potency, is a manifestation of the spiritual world, and material potency is a manifestation of this material world, and the marginal potency, we are, we living entities. We are marginal potency. Why it is marginal? Because although we belong to the spiritual potency, but we have got tendency to come into contact of this material potency. Therefore it is called marginal, "this way or that way." That a slight independence which is there in every living entity, he can use that, and he may select either to live in the spiritual potency or in the material potency.
These five associates are always with Kṛṣṇa Caitanya. So to offer Kṛṣṇa Caitanya means to offer with His associates. Sa-ghoṣṭi. This is the process.
Now Kṛṣṇa's..., about the position of Kṛṣṇa, what is Kṛṣṇa, he has already described. The first proposition is sambandha. Sambandha means we have to understand our relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Just like if we want to make some relationship with a friend, then we must know about him, what he is. So we are going to be Kṛṣṇa conscious, so we must know what is Kṛṣṇa. So Kṛṣṇa, about Kṛṣṇa he has described shortly, that He is personally like this, His incarnations are like this, and there are so many incarnations, and He is existing in this way, He manifests Himself in this material world in this way. As far as possible he has given description about Kṛṣṇa. Now, about Kṛṣṇa's abode... Kṛṣṇa means not only Kṛṣṇa. Nāma dhāma guṇa līlā parikara vaisiṣṭha.
Sri Brahma-samhita Lectures
And here is a learned scholar. He's also living spark. But he has got this nice opportunity for his past karma." So he does not see the body. He sees the spirit soul, spark. So when one comes to that position, he does not make any distinction between this living entity to that living entity.
So our proposition: If you inquire, "Then why you restrict, "No meat-eating'?" The answer is that actually we do not make any distinction between the meat-eaters and the vegetable eaters, because the cow or the goat or the lamb has got life, and the grass, it has also got life. But we follow the Vedic instruction. What is that? Now, īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvaṁ yat kiñcit jagatyāṁ jagat, tena tyaktena bhuñjīthā: (ISO 1) everything is the property of the Supreme Lord, and you can enjoy whatever is allotted to you. Mā gṛdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam. You cannot touch others' body, others' property. You cannot touch. That is Vedic life. So in all scriptures it is stated that man should live on fruits and vegetables. Their teeth are made in that way.
I am not exposed to everyone, yoga-māyā-samāvṛtaḥ, covered by the curtain of yoga-māyā. But those who have developed love of Kṛṣṇa, for them, premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). One who has developed love of Kṛṣṇa, he can see Kṛṣṇa within his heart twenty-four hours. So it is very nice proposition, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Please take to it. We are canvassing. We are sending our devotees to the street, begging, "Please come to our temple, be Kṛṣṇa conscious." That is our business. Caitanya Mahāprabhu wanted it. Go door to door, even at the risk of life, and ask these rascals to come to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Māyā-sukhāya, because they're, they're thinking, "Oh, we are very happy." Illusion. The happiness will be finished within a second. As soon as death will come, finished. But one can say that "Death will come to you also." "Yes, that's all right." "Then why do you distinguish my death and your death?" "Yes, because you do not know where you are going, but I know where I am going, that is the difference."
Festival Lectures
Kṛṣṇa, it is the perfect harmony in this condition to serve Kṛṣṇa, so long there will be fighting due to ignorance and deluded cross purposes.
This International Society for Kṛṣṇa Consciousness movement is meant for spreading the Kṛṣṇa consciousness to the whole world so that people might realize their spiritual existence, and so that the whole atmosphere of the world can become spiritualized by chanting the names of Kṛṣṇa. So we welcome everybody who comes to this temple to inquire about how to make your life perfect by tuning in to the desires of the Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa. You'll find that this is such a pleasant proposition, that all insignificant lower desires will be forgotten. There will not be any need for unnecessary fighting among the people of the world if they can only understand the spiritual plane of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. The way to realize Kṛṣṇa consciousness is very simple.
Arrival Addresses and Talks
And everyone is accepting this body as the self, and "There is no life after death; therefore make the best use of this bad bargain and enjoy sense gratification as far as possible." But this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is checking this wrong progress of human civilization. Our first proposition is that "You are not this body; you are spirit soul. Some way or other, you are in contact with this material world, and you have got this material body, and under illusion, you are accepting something which you are not."
So basic principle of this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to correct the wrong foundation of the human civilization. In the Bhagavad-gītā this is the beginning of spiritual knowledge. When Arjuna was identifying himself with this body and bodily relationship, Kṛṣṇa first of all corrected that "You are not this body." So if we do not understand these first steps of spiritual knowledge, then where is the question of making further progress?
So our point is that you come to the spiritual platform, then this equality will be possible. If you keep yourself on the material platform, then artificially you may say, "We are equal," but at last we shall fight. This is our proposition. Therefore we request everyone that you come to the spiritual platform. Then everything will be very nice. There will be no distinction, because brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā. When one is spiritually realized, then he becomes happy. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati (BG 18.54). There is no more lamentation. There is no more hankering. Just like one man is trying to become another man's position. That is hankering. So in spiritual platform there is no hankering, because he understands that spiritually we are one. So how that spiritually oneness can be made possible, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. We are trying to solve all problems by this one stroke, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Practically, you can see.
So despite artificial distinction... Just like a man's body and a female's body, woman's body, the bodily structure is different. How you can say they are equal? No. When you see the external structure of the body of man and woman, there is difference. But despite this difference, when the man and woman think in connection with Kṛṣṇa, they are equal. That is wanted. Our proposition is that artificially you do not try to make equality. That will be failure. It is already failure. Now how you can...? Just like I have seen in London, woman police. So woman police, so I was joking with her, "If I capture your hand and snatch you, what you will do? You are policeman. (laughter) You will cry simply. So what is the use of your becoming policeman?" Policeman requires bodily strength. If there is some hooligan, you can give him one slap or catch him, but what the woman will do? So we say that be practical. Artificial equality will not endure. We are equal, undoubtedly, because we are all spirit souls.
For enhancing devotional activities one must be very enthusiastic. That is the first proposition. Don't be dull. Enthusiastic. Utsāhāt and dhairyāt, patiently. Utsāhād, dhairyāt, niścayād. Niścayāt means firmly convinced: "Yes, surely I shall meet Kṛṣṇa and go to Him, back to home, back to..." Niścayāt. Utsāhād dhairyāt niścayāt tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt. But you have to do the prescribed duties. Sato vṛtteḥ. You must be very honest and sādhu-saṅge, and in the association of devotees. Six: utsāhā, dhairyā, niścayāta, and tat-tat-karma-pravartanāt, sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83), and being honest. If we follow these six principles, then it is sure. Ṣaḍbhir bhaktir prasidhyati.
Initiation Lectures
That means this classification of society in the human society, that is made by God. What is that classification? The brāhmaṇa, the kṣatriya, the vaiśya, and the śūdra. It is not the name, but it is guṇa-karma. Brāhmaṇa means quality and work. Kṣatriya means quality and work. And vaiśya means quality and work. There is no question of birthright. It is a false proposition that a brāhmaṇa's son becomes brāhmaṇa. No, not necessarily. If he properly becomes initiated under the guidance of a spiritual master, then he is brāhmaṇa. Otherwise, if he has acquired the qualities of a śūdra, then he should be considered as a śūdra. These are the śāstric injunctions. And this classification is all over the world. Don't think that it is Indian or Vedic system. No. In every country, in every place, in every planet, these four divisions are there.
Brāhmaṇas means those who are interested in spiritual life, they are called brāhmaṇas, intelligent class. They are called intelligent class, because unless one is intelligent, he will simply consider that this body is he, identification of the body.
Now you take. This is greatest contribution of Caitanya Mahāprabhu to fight against this attack of material influence. Everyone is subjected. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). Under the three modes of material nature people are entangled. So to get out of this, the same proposition, as I explained in the beginning, to get out of this entanglement of constant transmigrating from one body to another, so this is the mantra. Simply to... Yaḥ smaret puṇḍarīkākṣam. Puṇḍarīkākṣam means Kṛṣṇa. So if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, you'll be forced to remember Him. As soon as the word "Kṛṣṇa" is there and the more you are practiced to this habit, then simply we'll see Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa—nothing more. You'll see nothing. Sarvatra sphūrti tāra iṣṭa-deva mūrti. As you make advance, then you'll see a tree, but you'll see Kṛṣṇa. You'll not see the form of tree. Sarvatra sphūrti tāra iṣṭa-deva... Because one who is conversant with the science of Kṛṣṇa, he'll know how His energies are working in so many ways; therefore he'll be sympathetic. That is universal vision. That is universal love. If you love Kṛṣṇa, then there will be universal love. Otherwise it will be simply talks.
So you have to please Rāmacandra in that way, to kill all these cheaters, Rāvaṇas—those in the form of sannyāsī, in the form of priest, or religionist, (who) are trying to cheat the Lord. Their only business is, "There is no God. God is impersonal. God is void"—some way or other to say there is no God. All these propositions, "God is void," "God is impersonal," means indirectly to say there is no God. So this is Rāvaṇa's policy. And in order to please Rāmacandra, oh, we have to kill this atheist class of men who try to cheat Rāmacandra and take away His Lakṣmī, Sītā, the goddess of fortune... The materialistic persons, they are trying simply to accumulate wealth, and so they come to Rāmacandra. They want money. That is Sītā. Money is goddess of fortune. So the materialistic persons, their policy is to take, earn money like anything, and employ it in sense gratification. That is their policy. But our policy is to take away the money from the atheist and employ it to the service of Rāmacandra. Just like Hanumān.
They simply think of merging into the existence of Brahman because of their disgust with material existence. The ācāryas who advocate the daiva-varṇāśrama, the social order of cātur-varṇyam mentioned in Bhagavad-gītā, do not accept the proposition of asura-varṇāśrama, which maintains the social code of varṇa is indicated by birth. The most intimate devotee of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, namely Gadādhara Paṇḍita, accepted tridaṇḍa-sannyāsa and also accepted Mādhava-upādhyāya as his tridaṇḍī-sannyāsī disciple. It is said that from this Madhvācārya, the sampradāya known in Western India as Vallabhācārya sampradāya has begun. Śrīla Gopāla Bhaṭṭa Bose(?), who is known as smṛti-ācārya in the Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava sampradāya, later accepted the tridaṇḍa-sannyāsa from Tridaṇḍipāda Prabodhānanda Sarasvatī. Although acceptance of tridaṇḍa-sannyāsa is not distinctly mentioned in the Gauḍīya Vaiṣṇava literature, the first verse of Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī's Upadeśāmṛta advocates that one should accept the tridaṇḍa-sannyāsa order by controlling the six forces:
General Lectures
So at the present moment, especially in this age, the forgetfulness of our eternal relationship with God is very strong. And by chanting this transcendental sound, Hare Kṛṣṇa, the first installment is that our heart or the mind becomes cleansed of all dirty things. This is not a theoretical proposition, but it is a fact. If you go on chanting this mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa, it is not difficult. Although it is pronounced in Sanskrit language, everyone can chant it just like in this meeting we began to chant, and you also joined with us. Here, all my students, they are all Americans. None of them are Indian, but still, they have learned it very nicely, and it is not difficult. And there is no expenditure.
So what is this Hare Kṛṣṇa? Hare means the energy of the Lord, and Kṛṣṇa means the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So it is a prayer. There are three words only: Hare, Kṛṣṇa and Rāma, three words. That has been arranged in sixteen words: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. So our movement is that we request you to take up these sixteen words—not sixteen words, three words, Hare, Kṛṣṇa, Rāma.
Just like somebody, the Muhammadans, call Allah, the Jews call Jehovah, or somebody calls something. That doesn't matter. If you think that "Why shall I chant the Indian name Kṛṣṇa, Sanskrit name Kṛṣṇa?" so Lord Caitanya says that there are millions and billions of names of God. If you think that this Kṛṣṇa name is not very suitable, you can accept any name. That doesn't matter. Our proposition is you chant God's name. That is our proposal. Therefore it is universal. If you like, you can chant Jehovah or you can chant Allah, but we request you that you chant God's name. Is it very difficult? It is not at all difficult. Lord Caitanya said that there are innumerable names of God according to different languages, different countries, different societies. And each and every one of them has the potency of God Himself. If there is any God, so God is Absolute; therefore there is no difference between His name and He Himself. Just like in the material world, in the world of duality there is difference between the name "water" and the substance water.
Similarly, all this nature's work is going on so wonderfully due to the presence of God, the Supersoul. This is understanding of the material nature. Then God, living entity, material nature, and then time. Time is eternal. There is no past, present, and future. It is my calculation, according to... That is relativity. That is the modern scientific proposition by Professor Einstein. Your time and my time, he has also stated that the time factor in the higher planets are different. In the higher planet the time factor—our six months makes their one day. Just like our so many yugas makes twelve hours of Brahmā. So time is according to the different object. But time is eternal. Actually, there is no past, present, future, or limitation. This is understanding of time. So God, living entity, material nature, time, and the activities. What are these activities? The activities are not eternal; they are temporary. You have got this temporary American body. You are thinking American. You are busy twenty-four hours as American. I am Indian.
No. You should read Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. This is only a preliminary division. In the spiritual platform, everything is absolute. If you read Bhagavad-gītā, you'll find the same proposition as in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. It is not that because you are studying Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that you haven't got to study Bhagavad-gītā. It is not like that. You read these literatures and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, follow the rules and regulations and live happily. Our program is very happy program. We chant, we dance, we eat Kṛṣṇa prasādam, we paint nice pictures of Kṛṣṇa and see them nicely decorated, and we read philosophy. So what you want more? (laughs)
We ask Kṛṣṇa, "What do You want to eat?" And Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā that "Give me vegetable, fruits, liquids. I shall be very much pleased." So we offer Kṛṣṇa fruits, grains, milk, and their preparation. They're very nice. If you come here and eat with us, you'll forget meat-eating. You see? It is so nice. So our proposition is not that vegetarian-nonvegetarian. Vegetarian or nonvegetarian, it is not very important thing. Vegetable has got also life. It does not mean that one man is eating meat; therefore he is killing. But even vegetarians, they are also killing. But our process is... We... Killing is not very important or nonimportant for us. If Kṛṣṇa says, "Kill," we can kill. If Kṛṣṇa says, "Don't kill," we don't kill. Because we are simply order-carrier. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna was posing himself by his family relationship that he's very perfect, nonviolent gentleman. But Kṛṣṇa induced him to fight, to kill the other party. So for us, killing or nonkilling is not very important thing because everyone is killing, knowingly or unknowingly.
It is not our proposition that you are Christian, you become Hindu, or you are Muhammadan, you become Christian, increase our numerical strength. We don't want. We don't want any numerical strength. We want one sincere person who has learned to love God, Kṛṣṇa. That's all. I have come to your country with this mission, and if I find one or two boys or girls sincerely have learned how to love God, Kṛṣṇa, then my mission is successful. I'm not after any number of... Because if I can turn one soul to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he'll do tremendous work, because he'll be fire. You see? He can do tremendous work. Ekaś candras tamo hanti na ca taraḥ sahasrasaḥ. One moon is complete to drive away the darkness of night, not millions of stars required. What these millions of stars can do? One moon is sufficient. So our propaganda is to create one moon. You see? But fortunately, by Kṛṣṇa's grace, many moonlike boys and girls have come to me. You see? Many moons. (chuckles) I was thinking of having only one moon, but Kṛṣṇa... I am hopeful that there are many moons, and in future they'll be doing very nice. This is para-upakāra. To spread this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the best service to the humanity.
Economic development means the material comforts: a better standard of eating, better standard of sleeping, better standard of sex life, and better standard of defending. But we have got another. We are not this body. Better standard of living, sleeping, mating, is meant for this body. But I am not this body. That is my first proposition, that I am not body. I am not this room, apartment. If I simply decorate this room with all my energies, forgetting about myself, then that is not very good intelligence. You decorate your body, decorate your room, decorate your dress—that's all right—but take information of your soul also. Lord Jesus Christ said that if after achieving everything one loses his self, then what does he gain? The same thing is also in the Bhāgavata. There is no difference between the instruction of Lord Jesus Christ and Bhāgavata, but Bhāgavata is very elaborately described. And Lord Jesus Christ gave you in nutshell. Just like he gave you the information of the kingdom of God.
So our business is falling down on your feet and flattering you and making many, I mean to say, salvation(?), I mean simply we request you that try to understand this philosophy, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You will be benefited. The so-called knowledge, so-called elevation, so-called upliftment, oh, this will be all finished as soon as your body is finished. But you are pure soul. You have to educate yourself how your soul can be saved from this cycle of birth and death within the species of 8,400,000's in different planets and different places. Just try to elevate to the spiritual world, back to home, back to Godhead. That is the mission of your human life. Don't lose this opportunity. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. It is easy thing, Hare Kṛṣṇa, only sixteen names. Anyone can chant. Even the child can chant. You try it. There is no payment; there is no loss. But you try it and you'll be benefited. That is our proposition.
Thank you. Any question? So no question from the audience? Yes?
In this way six Gosvāmīs, they were immediate disciples of Lord Caitanya and Lord Caitanya's instruction to them..., directly gave instruction to Rūpa Gosvāmī and Sanātana Gosvāmī and Rāmānanda Raya. So one of the Gosvāmīs, Sanātana Gosvāmī, the Caitanya Mahāprabhu is instructing at Benares. So his proposition was that some people, my neighborhood people or my dependents, government officers, they call me as a learned scholar, paṇḍita.
Of course, it is a system in India that a brāhmaṇa is addressed as a paṇḍita because he is supposed to become a learned scholar. Brāhmaṇa's business is to study Vedic literatures and teach others also paṭhan pāṭhan. He must be scholar and he must make others also scholar. Not that he is simply remains a scholar, no, that is bad. Brāhmaṇa is so liberal that he wants to make others also scholar. paṭhana, pāṭhana, yajana, yājana. Yajan means worshiping the lord and yājan means helping others. Priest, you know, priestly business.
That is Kṛṣṇa. And Kṛṣṇa says. It is confirmed. So our process of knowledge is very easy and perfect. The scientists, they are searching out what is the ultimate cause or ultimate control of this material nature, and they are putting, theorizing different propositions. But our means of knowledge, very easy and perfect because we are hearing from the perfect person, Kṛṣṇa. And He says, mayādhyakṣeṇa (BG 9.10). So immediately we know that all this cosmic machine, which is working so nicely and wonderfully, behind this machine the driver is Kṛṣṇa. Exactly behind a machine here, there is a machine driver, similarly, behind this big machine of material nature, there is Kṛṣṇa.
So our process of knowledge very easy. Kṛṣṇa's book, Bhagavad-gītā, is the knowledge, book of knowledge which is given by the perfect person, Kṛṣṇa. You may argue that "You have accepted Him as a perfect person, but we do not." You may not.
They take it as chance. There is no question of chance. There is no question of chance. When you become perplexed, you want to do something, Kṛṣṇa gives you the opportunity: "All right, do it like this." That is His mercy.
There is no question of chance. There is nothing like chance. This is foolish proposition. Everything... Just like this flower is coming. So there is immense manufacturing process. Suppose if you want to manufacture a flower like this, you have to secure so many things—the color, the ingredient, the paper, the brush, so many. Still, you cannot do like this. So if your nonsense, artificial flower takes so many instrumental assistance, brain, how do you think that this has come automatically? There is brain. It is not chance. You have no eyes to see. Therefore you call "chance." But a devotee, he sees. He does not see this flower; He sees the hand of Kṛṣṇa, how He is preparing, how He is preparing, Kṛṣṇa. Therefore a devotee does not see anything except Kṛṣṇa because he sees the craftsmanship, hands of Kṛṣṇa, how He is preparing.
The whole idea is the human society should remain in peace and prosperity. And the vivid example is the United Nations in your country. America invited all nations that "Let us form a community of United Nations," but the America herself is fighting. You see? Because the idea was there to unite, but they do not know the basic principle, how to unite. That is the defect. There is a church in the United Nations, and we tried to get a room there for making our propaganda. The church unity denied to give us. So their crippled mind is not expanded. Sa mahātmā... Mahātmā means broad-minded. Su-durlabhaḥ. So mahātmā, unless one becomes nonenvious, mahātmā, there is no question of so-called unity or fraternity. These are all false propaganda. It is not possible. But they will stick to that proposition, that "We have got this..." For the last twenty years... Why twenty years? More than twenty years. When this United Nations was started?
"Arjuna, you are talking with Me—of course, you are My friend—on equal level. You are talking just like a very learned man." You have read in the Bhagavad-gītā. He submitted his proposition, that "How can I kill my..., the other side? They are my brothers, and if the brothers are dead, my sister-in-laws will be widow and they will be polluted, and there will be varṇa-saṅkara. And so..." These things are facts, but Kṛṣṇa says that "You are simply taking calculation of the body. Body. You have no spiritual calculation. The life is meant for spiritual understanding, athāto brahma jijñāsā. But you have no such understanding. You have no such knowledge, and still you are speaking." Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase: (BG 2.11) "You are talking like a very learned man, but My dear friend, you are not learned." He said in a different way. Agatāsūn. Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. "Because this body... You are thinking in terms of bodily relationship, but a paṇḍita, a learned scholar... Actually he is learned scholar when he does not lament for this body, either alive or dead."
Philosophy Discussions
Prabhupāda: Just like a living entity is trying to become master—"I am the monarch of all I survey." That is untruth. The truth is that he is eternal servant. You cannot say that because one is trying to be imitation God, that that is another truth. You cannot say that. That is māyā. There cannot be a second God. God is one. That is truth, absolute truth. Our point is that we do not accept this proposition, that there are two types of truth. That is not at all acceptable. Truth is one.
Śyāmasundara: Supposing you saw some ice, and you said, "Due to there being cold, this water has turned hard and become ice."
Prabhupāda: That is another proposition. Water is liquid, but when water becomes hard, that is artificial. But that hardness... Snow is white, that is truth. Otherwise nothing is truth except Kṛṣṇa. Relative truth. Kṛṣṇa is absolute truth. There are relative truths. So this is relative truth. Kṛṣṇa is substance. Now, from Kṛṣṇa everything is emanating by His energy. Water is also one of the energies, but that energy is not absolute truth, that water. But in that relativeness, the water's liquidity is truth. But it is relative truth.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is simply useless talk. Because it is a fact that the fruit has fallen, and the crow has flown away. Now why should we bother? A waste of time. But both can be possible. These argument—one is saying that the bird sat down, which is the cause of falling of the fruit, and the other says the falling down is the cause of the bird's not being able to sit on it—both can be possible. But we say therefore the ultimate desire is of God. If God desired that the fruit would not fall, it would not have fallen. That is our proposition.
Śyāmasundara: I think you said once that the devotee picks up the fruit and offers it to Kṛṣṇa and eats it.
Prabhupāda: Yes. We don't see the cause and effect; we see that ultimate cause is Kṛṣṇa. "By Kṛṣṇa's desire we have got this nice thing. Offer it to Kṛṣṇa and eat it," that's all.
Prabhupāda: Therefore it depends on that social body, which is authority. So ultimately we have to depend on the authority for all sanctions. So our proposition is that the supreme authority is Kṛṣṇa. So whatever He sanctions, that is morality; whatever He does not sanction, that is immorality. Just like Arjuna was thinking to become nonviolent, not to fight, is good. But Kṛṣṇa said, "Now you fight." So fight became good. So ultimately it depends on Kṛṣṇa's will, what is morality, what is immorality, what is good, what is bad. Therefore our duty is, instead of depending on social body or political... (break) ...are so many, one is different from the other—we depend on the supreme will of the supreme authority.
Prabhupāda: That means... This is another nonsense proposition. According to the universal reason. So wherefrom the reason comes unless there is a person? That he does not know.
Śyāmasundara: He called it weltgeist, which means world spirit, world mind.
Prabhupāda: World spirit? That is a person. Unless you accept a person where there is question of reason? That he does not know. He's trying to explain (how could God be) but he has not clear knowledge. But as soon as speaks of reason there must be some person. That reason is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayādhyakṣeṇa (BG 9.10), under my superintendence, under my guidance, direction. So direction means reason. So as soon as we speak of reason, you must accept the person, the supreme person who is giving this reason, who is directing all these things.
Śyāmasundara: His idea is that this constant struggle between being and non-being is what makes the world go round.
Prabhupāda: That is also our proposition. That the spirit: yayedaṁ dhāryate jagat (BG 7.5). Therefore we are talking of two energies, the superior energy and the inferior energy.
Śyāmasundara: What is the synthesis?
Prabhupāda: The synthesis is that the superior energy, because it has accepted this material energy, therefore the material world's energy is working. Because I have entered into this body, therefore the body's material, it has no movement, but because I am within this body, it is moving. As soon as I shall go away, then this body is a lump of matter.
Prabhupāda: If I say that frogs or many others animals lay eggs, millions... Just like the snake. They give birth to so many hundreds and thousands of snakes at a time. So, if so many snakes are allowed to exist, then there will be disturbance. Therefore the nature's law is that the big snake eats up the small, small snakes. That is nature's law. But behind this nature's law there is brain. That is our proposition: that nature's law is not blind. There is brain, and that brain is God. We get it from Bhagavad-gītā: mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). So whatever things are happening in the material nature, it is being done by the indication of the Supreme Lord in order to maintain everything in order. Just like the snake is laying eggs, thousands. If they are not killed, then the whole world will be full of snakes only. So there is a plan that the snakes will eat. Just like tiger. Tiger, they also have their cubs, but the male tiger kills them and the female tiger hides them. So many tigers are coming out.
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes, he has no chance to see it, or it is imagination only.
Śyāmasundara: That's very hard to accept. What about the dodo? It was a giant bird...
Prabhupāda: Our proposition is that there is an evolutionary process from aquatics to birds here, plants life, then insect life, then bird's life, then animal life, then human life. So this is a evolutionary process, we accept but it is not that one is extinct, another is surviving. All of them are existing simultaneously.
Śyāmasundara: But they are not all present at this particular moment on this planet, are they?
Prabhupāda: Particular, it is not that he has seen all the planets or all the universes. What he has seen?
Śyāmasundara: No, representative samples in many places.
Prabhupāda: Our first proposition is that he says that there was no human beings some millions of years ago. That's not a fact. Because we see all different species of life existing along with human beings. Therefore it should be concluded this is always existing. Human life is always existing. That is our first charge against him. He cannot say there was no human life.
Śyāmasundara: But we don't see any dinosaurs existing.
Prabhupāda: You do not see—your power is very limited—but we have to conclude in this way, when we see at the present moment all the different species of life are existing. Therefore it is existing always.
Śyāmasundara: But I don't see all the...
Prabhupāda: So, in the (indistinct) stage, we are dependent on the laws of nature, and we still, we are declaring we are free from any control. We are making our own proposition and theories.
Karandhara: They're always saying their conquest over nature.
Prabhupāda: But where is the conquest of nature? Now if there is a mistake of two degrees, you have to go round forever. What is the independence? Vikathante. The exact word used in this connection in the Bhāgavata, that these people talks all nonsense, vikatha. Under the influence of illusory energy they have become mad, and they are talking all nonsense.
Prabhupāda: Yes, immediate cause, we take, immediate cause. Immediate cause also we accept. So what is the conclusion? There is cause, immediate and remote. That we agree. But what is his proposition?
Śyāmasundara: His proposition is that we can study any instance of a phenomenon and find out the cause by applying these five methods: the method of agreement, then the second one is the method of difference. They're rather complicated.
Prabhupāda: That means five causes.
Śyāmasundara: No. Five methods of studying something to find out the cause. Five tests to find out the circumstances behind the phenomenon, the instance of the phenomenon, to find out the cause.
Prabhupāda: So this depends upon one's education. If one is educated, in one way he may become tender, and another man, if he is educated in a different way, he may be hard. But our proposition is that originally the soul is good. This tenderness and hardness, they are developed later on. But they are not standard. When you come to the platform of soul, there everything is good. In that platform, either tenderness or hardness, both of them are in the absolute. So our philosophy is that, as we understand from Bhagavad-gītā, that every living entity is part and parcel of God. So God is good, pavitra. Just like Arjuna accepts, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitram (BG 10.12). Pavitra means pure. But because we are part and parcel of God, therefore we are pure. The impurities are acquired by our contamination with this material world. So either you become tender or hard—that is impurity of this material world.
Prabhupāda: Yes. God, the definition of God is there in the Vedic literature, that God is the great. The Christian idea is also that. That greatness, that if we soberly think what is the greatness, the greatness in six opulences, that God is the richest, God is the strongest, and God is the famous, and God is the wisest, and God is the most beautiful, and God is the perfect renounced. He has got so many states, sarva-loka-maheśvaram (BG 5.29), but still He is not very much interested within this material world. He is in spiritual world along with associates. Therefore our proposition is, let us go back to home, back to Godhead. This is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. That is perfection of life.
Hayagrīva: His second characteristic of a sādhu is thus: "He has a sense of the friendly continuity of the ideal power with our own life in a willing self-surrender to its control."
Prabhupāda: Yes. No theory. This is practical. Now, as a big machine, the screw is a part, so if every part works nicely, the machine goes nicely. So if we understand... Just like I think last night I was explaining mukha baho rūpa divya: the gigantic body, the brāhmaṇa class, they are the mouth. So one must do the duty of the mouth. The mouth speaks, vibrates and eats. So our proposition is to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra and eat Kṛṣṇa prasādam. Then the mouth duty, the brāhmaṇa's duty, is performed. Similarly, the kṣatriya's duty—again we come to that varṇāśrama-dharma. So everyone is factually part and parcel of God and executes his prescribed duty, then it is perfect.
Prabhupāda: Why does he say? That is his inexperience. God means supreme controller. So everything is being controlled. So how he can say there is not God? That is his imperfect knowledge. The nature is going on in perfect order, and we have got experience that without being a director, controller... (break) ...first proposition, that the natural phenomena, that is going on in systematic way, and we have no experience anything going on in a systematic way has no controller. How they can think of this big phenomena without any controller? At least any sane man cannot think like that, that it is going on automatically, it is happening automatically. The season is changing in time, the sun is rising in time, the moon is rising—everything is going on systematically—and how he thinks that there is no controller, there is no God? That is insanity. To become atheist is, means, a greatest insane person. It has no meaning to become atheist.
Prabhupāda: If you do not know, then why do you take the post of teacher? This is our proposition. If you do not know, sit down. It is better not to talk foolish. There is an English proverb: "It is better not to talk than to talk foolish." If you do not know, then don't talk. That is nice. What is the use of philosophically foolishly talking this and that and "maybe," "perhaps," like that, like that? What is the use of such knowledge?
Śyāmasundara: So he proposes these three stages of existence. The first one we talked about is the aesthetic stage of noncommitment—simply sense gratification and speculation. The second stage he says that a man makes a leap in commitment and begins to concern himself or involve himself with the world on an ethical level. And the third stage is the religious stage, or self-realization. But in the second stage he says that "The despair of life has lead one to the commitment to make choices, to commit himself to action and to enter into life's involvement and become ethically concerned; that suddenly he's turned within himself and in his passion and freedom and decision or subjectivity, then he begins to find himself."
Śyāmasundara: (laughs) Spoiling the petrol.
Prabhupāda: That's all. They do not know where to go. Is that very good proposition: "I do not know, that doesn't matter; therefore I start my car"?
Śyāmasundara: Yeah.
Prabhupāda: Never mind if I meet with accident. That's all right.
Śyāmasundara: That's their philosophy, that it is not what is done or the object of the doing; it is how it is done. That is what they say. Not what is done but how it is done.
Prabhupāda: That is another foolish thing. Dog's obstinacy that is called. Dog's obstinacy. This philosophy is dog's obstinacy.
Devotee: He says that the normal state of man's condition is an anxious uncertainty, that a man is naturally anxiety and uncertain.
Prabhupāda: Uncertainty for them who do not know what is the end of life, the goal of life.
Prabhupāda: So how he is to establish his philosophy if everything is whimsical, irrational? How he will convince others if he is irrational and irresponsible? How he will make progress in his philosophical proposition?
Śyāmasundara: He figures his...
Prabhupāda: Man is called a rational animal. Although animal, it is rational. So how his irrational philosophy will be accepted by a rational animal?
Śyāmasundara: He doesn't believe in rationality at all. Everything is..., no matter how hard we try to be rational, our plans are always upset. There is always some flaw to our reasoning.
Prabhupāda: Your reasoning may be full of flaws, that is the same thing. But why do you think others also reasoning will be with flaws?
Prabhupāda: Then why he is mad? We have got experience that there are madmen, but there is hospital also for treating the madmen. Similarly, the world may be mad, but there is hospitalization. That he does not know. From practical experience we see there are many madmen. At the same time there is a hospital, lunatic hospitals also, so treatment is there. So he does not see that. He has no knowledge where is the hospital, how he'll get and be treated. This is accepted, the world is mad, that's all right. But there is treatment also. Because in our experience practically we can show whenever there is disease, there is some treatment of it. But he does not know what is the treatment. He is speaking of sinful life, what he was saying, just like, but he does not accept who is the judge to give me resultant action of my sinful life. The world is mad, but he does not know where the treatment of madman is done. He does not know. Therefore his knowledge is imperfect, and still he is philosophizing. That is the defect. Our proposition is that unless one is perfect, we cannot take knowledge from him. That is our proposition.
Śyāmasundara: This morning we are discussing a philosopher called Ludwig Wittgenstein, a contemporary German philosopher. One of his major so-called contributions is what is called a verification principle, which reads, "To understand a proposition means to know what is the case if it is true." That means anyone who wishes to understand a proposition must first know the conditions under which that proposition is true, that is, what information is required by way of evidence of its truth.
Prabhupāda: So the modern world's proposition is that "I am this body." So that is untruth. What does he say about this?
Śyāmasundara: Well, if I claim that I am this body, that means I have to know all of the conditions which make it true that I am this body. Then if all these conditions are true...
Prabhupāda: The main principle is when the body is called dead, why don't you put some chemicals and make it alive again? You say something is wanted. What is that something? That you do not know. But we can say what is that something. We say that something is the soul. That is wanting.
Śyāmasundara: So far that proposition, you said "I am" means that the soul exists. That is your proposition.
Prabhupāda: My proposition is that "I am" means I am the soul, spirit soul, not this body.
Śyāmasundara: So they say that if we are to verify this proposition, to prove that it is true, then we have to know what conditions under which it is true. What are those conditions under which it is true?
Śyāmasundara: In order for that statement or that proposition to be true, there must be evidence.
Prabhupāda: This is evidence: that there is no soul. The self, the individual soul, is now departed; therefore this body is lump of matter. This is evidence. And because the soul is there, therefore the body changes or develops. Just like if a child is born dead, then the body does not develop or changes. It remains in the same condition. But so long the soul is there, the child grows or changes his body. That is evidence. Because the soul is there, therefore the child is growing or changing body from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youth. Suppose a child is born, doctor says it is dead child. You say something is wanted, but what is that something? You do not know. Otherwise, if you know, you add it. What is that something? Suggest, what is that something? Simply vague idea something, that is nonsense idea. That is not science. You must give, "This is wanting." Suppose that you say that the blood, the redness, just like nowadays blood supply is the theory, so what is this blood? Blood is a liquid, red liquid, like chemical or something, with some salt. So you can add salt, just like in cholera cases, they add saline injection. So dead body, you give saline injection, make it red by some color, give him life. If you say that "Red blood is now white," so make it red.
Śyāmasundara: He says that philosophy is that mental activity which seeks to analyze or clarify the meanings of scientific propositions.
Prabhupāda: This is philosophy: to study what is this body and how it is moving. This is analytical study. And you come to the understanding that the body is a dead lump of matter, there is something which is called the soul. Because the soul is there. This is scientific truth. One who has not this knowledge, he is not scientific; he is foolish.
Śyāmasundara: In other words, if you make a scientific proposition that "Because I am, the body moves," that is your scientific proposition?
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is scientific proposition.
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is scientific proposition.
Śyāmasundara: Then philosophy is a clarification of that proposition.
Prabhupāda: Clarification... It is supported by the greatest authority, Kṛṣṇa. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). He says that, the greatest authority, God Himself, He says that as the body's changing in different phases of my life, similarly, ultimately, at the end, this body is left and another body is accepted. That is scientific. It is not our bogus proposition. It is supported by the whole Vedic knowledge and especially by Kṛṣṇa, and who can be greater authority than Kṛṣṇa? That will be scientific. Just like modern science: if somebody proves some theory and it is accepted by the scientific world, then it is accepted as scientific; similarly, our proposition is accepted by Kṛṣṇa, the greatest scientist; therefore it is fact. But you have no support by the scientists, what you say; therefore your proposition is nonsense. My proposition is accepted by the greatest scientist. He has created this whole world.
Prabhupāda: Because they're all rascals and fools, what they can discover? (laughter) They simply theorize on their rascaldom, that's all. That is their business. (indistinct) There is no fact. And those who are rascals, they believe them. That's all. So we are not such rascals, because our knowledge is received from the greatest scientist, Kṛṣṇa. I personally may be rascal, but because I follow the greatest scientist, therefore my proposition is scientific. I do not know how this dictaphone is working, but somebody has said "This is dictaphone," I accept. And it is working. That is my scientific knowledge. I may not be the mechanic, but I am working.
Śyāmasundara: He says that philosophy is a process which attempts to clarify God, not that itself it has factual content.
Prabhupāda: This is clarification. Mostly the people are under illusion, identifying the body with the self. But we are clarifying that "You are not this body, you are spirit soul." Therefore it is a scientific proposition.
Śyāmasundara: So we are clarifying a scientific proposition with our philosophy.
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is it. Philosophy means the science of sciences. Another definition of philosophy is "the science of sciences." All sciences are derived from philosophy. So philosophy's actual position is on the higher level than the sciences.
Śyāmasundara: Another definition he has is that "Philosophy is the pursuit of meaning." Pursuit of meaning.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. (laughs) He says that the propositions of logic and mathematics are tautologies, he calls it, or uninformative assertions which state nothing factual about the world. Just like, for instance, "Two plus two equals four." On paper it is just two symbols: the symbol 2, and the symbol 2 and the symbol 4. But actually that is a void arrangement. It doesn't state anything factual about the world.
Prabhupāda: What does he want more practical?
Śyāmasundara: He says that these can be demonstrated but not verified.
Prabhupāda: Why not verified? Two rupees plus two rupees equal to four rupees. This is verified.
Śyāmasundara: But that's something else.
Śyāmasundara: Let us say the proposition that "The sum of the angles of a triangle equals 180 degrees," that is a proposition. It can be demonstrated on paper but it cannot be verified by experiential data.
Devotee: If you're steering a ship you can make use of it, can't you?
Śyāmasundara: It can be made use of and it can be called valid or invalid.
Prabhupāda: What does he want more?
Śyāmasundara: He wants to know true and false. That this "Sum of the angles equal to 180 degrees" can be said to be valid or invalid, but it cannot be said to be true or false.
Prabhupāda: Then in that way, what he proposes, that is also false, because in this material world there is no truth. Everything is false. So his philosophical proposition is also false.
Prabhupāda: That means doubt. It is doubtful.
Śyāmasundara: Just like the proposition, "The sum of the angles of a triangle equals 180 degrees."
Prabhupāda: That is accepted by the scientists and mathematicians.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. That can be said to be a valid proposition or an invalid proposition. Demonstrated.
Prabhupāda: Why invalid? It is valid because all mathematicians, all scientists, they have accepted it.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. It can be demonstrated that it is valid on paper. But it cannot be said that it is true or false by our experiential data.
Śyāmasundara: What about the proposition that "Two plus two equals four"?
Prabhupāda: That is also temporary.
Śyāmasundara: That disappears when this universe disappears?
Prabhupāda: Yes. When the universe disappears, everything disappears. Who is going to calculate "Two plus two equals four"? Everything is finished.
Śyāmasundara: The principle does not carry on, despite...
Prabhupāda: The principle will carry on when again there will be manifestation. Just like this waterpot, it breaks, it becomes earth, and again from earth we make waterpot. Therefore this principle that the waterpot is made out of earth, that is a fact, but the waterpot as we see, that is temporary. Creation of the waterpot from earth is a fact. Similarly, this material world is a creation out of Kṛṣṇa's external energy. That is a fact. Kṛṣṇa's energy is fact. Kṛṣṇa is fact.
Prabhupāda: Just like this body. This body, I can say is false, but suppose somebody kills somebody, he cannot argue that it is a false thing. If it is killed, why the state should by so much anxious about it if it a false? No. Even it is temporary, even if it's false, but it has got temporary use. You cannot disturb that use.
Śyāmasundara: He says that propositions pertaining to metaphysical realities such as we have been talking about, like the soul, he says they are neither chronological, that is uninformative assertions, neither are they empirical propositions. So it is impossible to demonstrate either their validity or to verify them.
Prabhupāda: Why?
Śyāmasundara: Statements like "the soul," "I am the soul."
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Śyāmasundara: We can neither say that is valid or invalid, neither we can say it is...
Prabhupāda: It is valid. It is not invalid, it is valid. You cannot understand it. Try to understand it. It is valid. "I am the soul," that's a valid proposition. How you can say invalid?
Devānanda: He also says that it cannot be demonstrated also.
Prabhupāda: This is demonstration. Demonstration, this is demonstration, that as soon as I go, actually I go (indistinct). That is demonstration. What do you want more demonstration?
Śyāmasundara: He says we have to know what conditions are required to show that it is true and then satisfy those conditions. So one condition you say is that as soon as the body dies, then there is no more movement. But what is there to prove that the soul has left the body or that there was ever a soul in the body?
Śyāmasundara: He says that atomic propositions, or the components of compound propositions, depend for their validity upon the reliability with which they accurately picture atomic facts. In other words, suppose there is some proposition that this ring is gold. This proposition is part of a compound proposition which tells where the ring came from, how it was originated, who wore it, so many other facts. But only you take one proposition, "this ring is gold," he said this proposition depends upon the reliability with which it accurately pictures the facts, if it is true or false. That statement, "this ring is gold," it must determine how accurately it pictures the facts before we can say if it is valid or invalid proposition.
Prabhupāda: Suppose I say it is gold. What he will say? What is his proposition?
Śyāmasundara: He'll say that first of all you must give us a list of conditions to determine why it is gold, under what conditions it is gold.
Śyāmasundara: He says that a proposition is a...
Prabhupāda: It is gold, gold means it is a metal, a combination of metals. There are eight types of metals, and gold is combination of tin, copper and mercury.
Śyāmasundara: There is a basic element-gold.
Prabhupāda: Not basic. It is a combination of different elements, different metals.
Śyāmasundara: According to the chemists, there are 108 basic elements, and gold is one of them.
Prabhupāda: That may be, but I say that what you call gold is a combination of other metals. So gold, this is not absolute. This is relative. Because other metals have combined together, it is now known as gold. Similarly, the whole world is combination of different material elements, and the gross elements are this earth, water, fire, air, ether.
Śyāmasundara: What about..., they say that there is a basic atom called a hydrogen atom.
Prabhupāda: Whatever you will call it, it is also matter. The minute particles are matter. That's all.
Prabhupāda: Yes. These are all matter.
Śyāmasundara: He says that a proposition is a picture of reality, a picture is a model of reality, a picture is a fact, the world is a totality of facts, the totality of true thoughts is a picture of the world.
Prabhupāda: Totality of not facts, that is a combination of gross matter, combination of gross and subtle matter. But this gross and subtle matter are projection of Kṛṣṇa's energy. Therefore totalities, they can be said Kṛṣṇa's external energy. And because Kṛṣṇa's energy, the energy and energetic, sometimes separated, sometimes mixed up; when separated, it manifests as something creation; when it is mixed up, the energy is no longer—it is merged into the energetic. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is the ultimate cause.
Śyāmasundara: So the picture of reality is always changing? There are no set combinations?
Prabhupāda: Language is a sort of expression to understand reality. Language is not reality.
Śyāmasundara: Yes. He says that propositions or statements of ideas provide merely the form, telling us not what things are but how they are, but only how they are.
Prabhupāda: As well as what they are. If they are how they are, then what they are can also be explained.
Śyāmasundara: Just like if I describe this picture, I cannot really say what it is, but only how it is, what it is like, how it is.
Prabhupāda: What is the difference, "how it is" and "what it is"? What is the difference? It is simply jugglery of words. If I can say how it is, I can say what it is.
Prabhupāda: That is how it is, how it has become gold. But ultimately it is Brahman, sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. Everything is Brahman.
Śyāmasundara: He says that therefore most philosophical propositions are not false, but they are devoid of sensory facts, of sense content; therefore they are nonsensical.
Prabhupāda: Therefore he is also nonsensical.
Śyāmasundara: He comes to that. (laughter) When a genuine proposition...
Prabhupāda: Then why is he after so much nonsensical things? Just to show he's...
Śyāmasundara: In order to find out what is a genuine proposition, he says that a genuine proposition presents the sense content and shows how things stand if it is true.
Prabhupāda: This is Brahman. Brahman means the greatest. Greatest.
Śyāmasundara: But when you say "Everything is Brahman," you are also willing to include another set of propositions which show how to experience Brahman, how one can experience this fact, "Everything is Brahman."
Prabhupāda: That is not very difficult. Just like this International Society. Originally I started, so in any center, I am there. I am there. My photograph is there, I am there, accepting, Bhaktivedanta Swami. So personally I am not there, but I still am there by my expansion of energy. So similarly, Kṛṣṇa is the original Brahman. Whatever we see, we perceive, experience, it's all Kṛṣṇa's expansion of energy. That's all.
Śyāmasundara: His attack, then, is not upon your statement "Everything is Brahman," because you are also proposing other propositions which show how to experience that everything is Brahman. His attack is upon philosophy that is empty or devoid of sense contact.
Śyāmasundara: We're coming to that. He says that the propositions must describe the object completely by means of logical scaffolding, exhibiting logical form of reality, and whatever cannot be shown cannot be said, either. So he says that if we purport to show reality by our words...
Prabhupāda: What is the process of showing?
Śyāmasundara: By language, that our structure of language must be logically complete and that it must also be able to be seen or it cannot be said. Whatever cannot be shown cannot be said either.
Prabhupāda: Then logically complete... Suppose I have my father, I've seen my father, or I've seen my grandfather, or I've seen my great-grandfather, but because I cannot see the father of great-grandfather does not mean that there was no great-grandfather. Logically it is real, that the father of my great-grandfather was also a human being, he had two hands, two legs, and one head. That is logical, even though I have not seen. What is illogical? So it does not mean that things which we sometimes do not see, it is not logical. You cannot say like that. Because they are not seen, that is also logical.
Śyāmasundara: It seems to me, in all of your propositions, you are also showing by practical example how this is true. You do not... It's not in the air, so we cannot perceive it in some way.
Prabhupāda: Nothing is in the air. Everything is fact. But if somebody says, although it is fact, "I cannot see, therefore it is not fact," that is not a good proposal.
Śyāmasundara: You give the evidence: the body is suddenly stopping moving. That is evidence. Even though we cannot see the soul, perhaps, but the evidence is there.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like on a cloudy day we cannot see the sun, but because there is light, so we say, "Yes, there is sun."
Prabhupāda: Time is eternal. There is no past, present, future. We perceive past, present, future due to this body. Just like Kṛṣṇa has no past, present, future.
Śyāmasundara: Wittgenstein noted that his own propositions are nonsensical; that is, they are devoid of any sense content. Therefore he held that...
Prabhupāda: Why he is bothering all nonsensical (indistinct)?
Śyāmasundara: He held that at first we must transcend that, in order to view the world correctly.
Prabhupāda: Yes, that we are. (laughter)
Devotee: We are transcending.
Prabhupāda: Let him study philosophy from us.
Prabhupāda: Actually, the real position is that every living entity is female, originally. But falsely he is imitating to become a male, enjoy. This is called māyā. Actually he is female, but he is trying to imitate the supreme male, Kṛṣṇa. That is called māyā. This is not fact. So our proposition is, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that you come to the original state, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You are not predominator, you are predominated. Predominated means female.
Śyāmasundara: So for instance in nature, he sees male and female characteristics. For instance a mountain, we see a mountain and we give it a male, a male characteristic because it is strong, it is dominant, it is (indistinct), like this. And the sea, which is passive and calm and deep, we give a female aspect. He sees all these in nature.
Prabhupāda: This knowledge, what is that?
Devotee: Inference.
Prabhupāda: Inference. What is that, inference knowledge?
Śyāmasundara: Just like the proposition "All men are mortal," this is inferred after examination, scientific examination, of a number of men.
Prabhupāda: How it is? How many number of men one can examine?
Śyāmasundara: Well, this is what he says.
Prabhupāda: If it is based on scientific examination of men, so our (indistinct) is limited. How many men we can examine to know that he is actually mortal? Just like individual, suppose you live for one hundred years and begin your study of the human being, say, at the age of twenty. So suppose for eighty years you go on examining. How many men you can examine every year? Say ten thousand men? Ten thousand men you examine, go on, eighty years, so how many-ten thousand into eighty?
Prabhupāda: Therefore our proposition, to receive perfect knowledge from the authorities, that is perfect. As Kṛṣṇa says, evaṁ paramparā-praptam (BG 4.2). Kṛṣṇa is perfect, and whatever knowledge He imparts, that is perfect. If we take knowledge from Kṛṣṇa, then our knowledge is perfect. I may not be as perfect as Kṛṣṇa, but if I simply accept the statements of Kṛṣṇa, then my knowledge is perfect.
Śyāmasundara: He says that this type of conclusion such as "All men are mortal," there is no possibility of error because different people may arrive at the opposite conclusion...
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) What is that?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Dr. Rao: I mean, so this proposition is incorrect. It is the rays of sun which are falling on the snowball, they are reflected, and then you see that snowball is white. Otherwise, snow is colorless.
Prabhupāda: Sometimes we see seven colors on the snowball. It is white. It is sunshine reflected there.
Dr. Rao: White light. You see white light, but white light is composed of seven colors: violet, indigo, blue, you know, (indistinct) and green, yellow, orange and red. So, but you are seeing white. (indistinct).
Devotee: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: But that is imperfect.
Dr. Rao: That is imperfection.
Prabhupāda: So therefore it is concluded that direct perception is always imperfect. (laughter)
Śyāmasundara: But he's using... He wants to use another word for facts. Instead of facts he...
Prabhupāda: What is the fact?
Śyāmasundara: ...he calls it propositions, or symbol, such as "Snow is white." Instead of calling it a fact, he would say, "It is proposition." (laughter)
Prabhupāda: What is the fact? He must say "This is fact."
Indian man: This is the same question in London. One of the (indistinct), that how can... (break) (end)
Prabhupāda: So my tendency is to (consider) everything as my own, but by the taking of the state I am forced to avoid(?). So how long will this work? By force how you can change one's mind? It is not possible. Therefore we say these things are only nonsense proposition. It will never happen because anyone who is in this material world, he has the prime tendency that I shall become the Lord. (indistinct) pratiṣṭhā. The material world means everyone is seeking after some profit, everyone is seeking after some adoration, and everyone is seeking, I mean to say, some position. This is the material world. So, if everyone, seeks profit, adoration and position, so how you can make equal by force?
Śyāmasundara: The communists have played upon this tendency and so the worker who produces more, he gets glorified by the state. He produces more units at his factory than the others, then he gets a small bonus.
Prabhupāda: That means that his tendency is to lord it over, and that he is being bribed. He wants some profit, "All right, I give you some bonus. This Russian communist idea is very good provided the citizens do not want any profit but that is not possible. Everyone wants profit. So how by law, by force, you can take it? It is not possible. The same proposition: that in the winter season the bugs cannot get blood, cannot come out due to the serious cold so they become dried up. Their skin practically dries, dries completely. There is no blood. That is (indistinct). But as soon as the bug gets opportunity, in the summer season, he can come out, immediately he bites somebody and sucks all the blood.
Prabhupāda: So that everyone thinks. Everyone says, but these are also incorrect propositions. So far Russia is concerned, we have seen practically, these things are not being applied. Like, at least we have seen, that in Moscow, all big, big buildings, they are not recent buildings, they are old, damaged buildings, and (indistinct). So that means their economic condition is not so sound. The old buildings are not very nicely renovated. So what is that building we we are going inside, getting out from the National Hotel? There was a big building, some historical building?
Śyāmasundara: Kremlin?
Prabhupāda: Library or something?
Śyāmasundara: Lenin's... Oh, the one with the round turret?
Prabhupāda: No, no, just like our hotel was there, and (indistinct) after a few steps there was a big building.
Prabhupāda: Religion means (indistinct) he cannot give up, that is religion.
Śyāmasundara: He thinks everything can be changed, that nothing is permanent.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) our proposition, religion means dharma, the (indistinct) which you cannot give up. (indistinct) Just like I am standing on this floor. It is not possible to stand without this floor. I cannot say that I can stand without floor.
Śyāmasundara: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) and it is not possible. Similarly, one cannot give up his religion. And what is that religion? That religion is service. If that is religion, then he wants to give service to the humanity by his proposition, and that is his religion. Why he is giving this philosophy, writing this book? He wants to give some service to the humanity. That is (the) idea. So everyone is trying to give some service. The father is trying to give some service (to) the family, the statesman is trying to give some service to his country. (indistinct) Then he is also trying to give some service to the whole humanity.
Prabhupāda: No. We can say, and they may note it also, that after this, the Bolshevik Revolution, there will be many other revolutions, many other revolutions, because so long people will live on the mental plane there will be only revolution. That's all. Our proposition is, "Give up this mental concoction. Come to the right point. And that is spiritual platform." If one comes to that spiritual platform, that is... Just like Dhruva Mahārāja said, svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce: (CC Madhya 22.42) "No more revolution. I am completely satisfied because I have now seen You." So unless one comes to God, the revolution will go on. Rather, this is final revolution. We don't say final revolution, but... We don't expect that Kṛṣṇa consciousness will be taken by everyone, but within this material world the revolution will repeat unless one comes to God consciousness.
Prabhupāda: No. Even if you have not heard... But you cannot change that opinion. Suppose my parents have taught me that "There is God and we are controlled," so you cannot change this. You say that you are not controlled. You prove that you are not controlled. Then you can say, "My parents have taught me wrongly." You are becoming old. You are becoming diseased. You will have to die. You have taken birth under certain system. So you are controlled. My parents have taught me that "There is God, who is supreme controller, and we are all controlled." Now you change this first of all. You are talking so nice thing, but you first of all say that you are not controlled. That is our proposition. If you say that you are not controlled, then you are mad.
Śyāmasundara: No. I would admit that I am controlled. Everyone in my Communist state is controlled because we work under the...
Śyāmasundara: He has another slogan to resolve conflicts within the party of "Unity, criticism, unity." A dialectic. "Unity, criticism... The thesis is unity, the antithesis is criticism..."
Prabhupāda: Then what is his reply to this dialectic proposition, that I say that "You, Mr. Mao, you are not independent. You are controlled."
Śyāmasundara: He'll say, "Yes, I am controlled by the higher truth of the socialist law, communistic law."
Prabhupāda: No, even there is no communistic law, still you are controlled, apart from the communistic law. You are controlled by the nature's law. How you can avoid it?
Śyāmasundara: Well, being only a combination of matter, I must be born and I must die, everyone.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, the Russia is supposed to be leader of the Communistic idea.
Revatīnandana: They don't accept anymore. There is Mao...
Prabhupāda: Similarly, sometimes after, he will not be accepted. That is my proposition. As Russia is not accepted now, some days after, he will not be accepted. Similarly, your also theory will fail. That is my proposition. Because I challenge that your theory is not perfect. Because Russia's theory was not perfect, it has failed. Similarly, I say your theory is also imperfect, therefore it will fail. Anything imperfect will fail. That is my proposition.
Revatīnandana: His propaganda is that it is perfect because it has made the Chinese people...
Śyāmasundara: He uses the example of a house, that if I become conscious of a house, the house itself is a real entity, unaffected by my consciousness of it. It exists, objectively, real, whether I see it or not. He says that the...
Prabhupāda: But in that proposition... And if we accept that we are eternal, so it is very natural to assume that we have got eternal home. That is back to Godhead, back to home. Is it not?
Śyāmasundara: If we were born someplace, that is our home, normally...
Prabhupāda: No. The thing is... Just like I have come to this house. This is not my own house, but everyone knows that I have got a house. It may be where it is. Therefore sometimes they ask, "Where, what is your residence?"
Śyāmasundara: So he searched around for those values that are most accepted by the most people and he found they are truth, beauty, and goodness are the three main values. Truth, beauty, and goodness.
Prabhupāda: Well, it is a false proposition. In the material world nobody likes truth. They always want to place untruth, at least in this age. The majority of people are not truthful. As soon as one becomes truthful, he's a brāhmaṇa. (end)
Prabhupāda: They... It is, our Vedic conception is also like that, that the mankind has come from Manu. From Manu, human being, or manuṣya... The Sanskrit word is manuṣya, "coming from Manu." So Manu is also coming from Brahmā. In this way, as the conception of a first creature, Adam, similarly, a first living being is Lord Brahmā. Therefore our proposition is that a living being coming from the living being. Brahmā is living being, or Adam is living being. Then the living being does not come from matter. Brahmā is also coming from the Supreme Lord as raja-guṇa avatāra, incarnation of raja-guṇa. So all living being, they are coming from the Supreme Living Being. So Brahmā is also the first creature within this universe.
Hayagrīva: Augustine... Just as Augustine saw that the soul is created into a particular body, he felt that this was a gift from God, and that this was not an...
Prabhupāda: Soul is coming from particular body?
Prabhupāda: Darwin, he is all through. Everyone is more or less. Unless one has got the right knowledge... Why Darwin? Everyone is under false impression. Therefore our proposition is that you take right knowledge from the right person, Kṛṣṇa, then you are perfect. And if you go on speculating—you speculate in one way, I speculate in another way—it does not mean that we are intelligent person.
Hayagrīva: The, Huxley, it was Huxley who coined the word "agnostic," as the opposite of gnostic, of church history. The word gnostic is "one who follows in the gnostic tradition of church history."
Prabhupāda: According to Vedic, nāstika word is there, nāstika.
Hayagrīva: Gnostic.
Purports to Songs
"All right, I shall become Your father and chastise You." When Kṛṣṇa wants to fight, one of His devotees becomes Hiraṇyakaśipu and fights with Him. So all activities of Kṛṣṇa is with His devotees. He is... Therefore, to become associate of Kṛṣṇa, to develop Kṛṣṇa consciousness... Yaśodā-nandana vraja-jana-vallabha, vraja-jana-rañjana. His only business is how to satisfy... As braja-jana's business is how to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, similarly, Kṛṣṇa's business is how to satisfy braja-jana. This is reciprocation of love. Yamunā-tīra-vana-cārī. Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is wandering on the banks of Yamunā to please the gopīs, the cowherd boys, the birds, beasts, calves. They are not ordinary birds, beasts, calves or men. They are on the top of self-realization. Kṛta-puṇya-puñjāḥ (SB 10.12.11). After many, many lives they got that position, to play with Kṛṣṇa.
So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is so nice that everyone can go to Kṛṣṇaloka and become His associate, as a friend or so many other things, as a servant, as father, as mother. And Kṛṣṇa is agreeable to any one of these propositions. These things are described very nicely in our Teachings of Lord Caitanya. So Kṛṣṇa does not go even a step from Vṛndāvana. The original Kṛṣṇa is Vṛndāvana.
| Page Title: | Proposition (Lectures) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 19 of Sep, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=177, Con=0, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 177 |