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Proof (Conv. 1976 - 1977)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: (break) So if you are not independent, what is the value of your thinking independently?

Keśavalāl Trivedi: Absolutely none. None.

Prabhupāda: But everyone is thinking independently.

Keśavalāl Trivedi: Yes. That is māyā. That is the māyā, that which is not.

Prabhupāda: They are making plans, theories, "ism." What is the value of this?

Keśavalāl Trivedi: Absolutely none.

Prabhupāda: Therefore everything is becoming failure. So preach this truth to the world, that "You are all rascals. Why you are thinking independently?" Huh? "Why I am rascal?" "Because you are thinking independently. That is the proof that you are a rascal." Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānās te 'pīśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhāḥ (SB 7.5.31). Īśa-tantryām uru-dāmni baddhaḥ. And they are thinking independently.

Morning Walk -- January 3, 1976, Nellore:

Prabhupāda: That is another foolishness. Because you are so rascal, you do not know that "I cannot move even an inch and I am making plan." That is the proof that you are a rascal.

Keśavalāl Trivedi: Tena vinā tṛṇam api na calati. That is the way.

Harikeśa: But why are people in the capital...

Prabhupāda: Therefore we call them all rascals. That is our confirmation of our statement. Mūḍhas, you all rascals, without any exception. Hm? The other day the high-court judge, he's supposed to be the most intelligent person within this state, high-court judge, and he was talking so many nonsense.

Morning Walk -- January 4, 1976, Nellore:

Indian man: That is the proviso.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the proof that you are a pāmara.

Indian man: In my own way, if they challenge us and they are convincing, because to the audience it has to be said. One gosvāmī, when I said, "Well, this is a movement which I very much like, and like also to join," then he said that—because I am conducting Gītā Bhavan(?) founded by him—he said, "No, no, no, no. We as a matter of fact champion that cause. But afterwards, when we realized that it is not sampradayic, we have given it up. Therefore..." Then his conduct.... The next day itself, he was not liking me. I have been doing this propaganda, this Gītā pravacanam, for the past four years in the organization founded by him. But the very next day, that gosvāmī, Puruṣottama Gosvāmī of Vṛndāvana...

Yaśodānandana: The envious one.

Prabhupāda: He has got a camp here?

Yaśodānandana: No, in Madras.

Morning Walk -- January 4, 1976, Nellore:

Yaśodānandana: First of all, we are not even banned in Japan. The center is still there.

Prabhupāda: No, no, that's all right. Banned means we had something. But what proof you have got that you have done something in Japan?

Indian man: There is something; there is nothing.

Prabhupāda: So it is better. Just like one man said that "I have lost fifty thousand this year." His friend said, "You are still fortunate, because you had fifty thousand. But I have no fifty paisa even."

Indian man: So there is something. Here nothing.

Prabhupāda: "So you are so fortunate that you could suffer the loss of fifty thousand, but I have nothing to lose."

Morning Walk -- February 3, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So that means he is on the same level. (break) ...Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura on the gate is the proof how fool he is. He has not shown respect to Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura; he has disgraced.

Jayapatākā: Now the government is saying that they have to knock down those temples because of the encroaching on the roadside.

Prabhupāda: Now where Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura...?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Will go now? What was... What was your guru mahārāja's plan for where he...? I don't understand. I mean, did your guru mahārāja want a...

Prabhupāda: Bhaktivinoda Ṭhākura's statue was there.

Morning Walk -- February 5, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: We don't say, "so many years." We say it is created by...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What is your proof?

Prabhupāda: Proof? What proof you want?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Well, what is your proof of what happened millions of years ago at the beginning of creation? You say that...

Prabhupāda: No, the same thing is going on. Millions of years there was sunrise. Now sunrise is still going on. Do you think that millions of years there was no sunrise? It is going on. The same thing is going on now here. Because you are foolish, you cannot see. Nothing has changed. The same thing is going on. Millions of years the father-mother combined and there was child, and that is going on still.

Morning Walk -- February 5, 1976, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Right. If your father's good...

Prabhupāda: Eh? No, it is criminal. That is... You say that there are so many persons in the state. Not all of them are suffering in the prisonhouse. Only the criminals. So that is the proof that you are a criminal.

Hṛdayānanda: God could have... God could have created me in such a way that I would never have fallen down.

Prabhupāda: He has created, but He has given you independence.

Jagadīśa: God wants us to enjoy.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- February 6, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like there are... In your window there is glass, red. So sun is passing; you say sun red. And again it has come; it is white. That is our...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So the scientists say the same thing except they say that the earth is moving, not the sun. Same explanation you have given for the colors, they give, except that they say that the earth that is moving, not the sun. They wouldn't accept that point as a proof that the sun is moving.

Prabhupāda: No, sun is moving because the earth and the sun... The distance is the same, but you can calculate the distance from the rising up to the... It is millions, millions of miles. So unless the sun is moving, the earth cannot move so swiftly.

Jagadīśa: They are always the same distance apart?

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Jagadīśa: The earth and the sun are always the same distance apart?

Prabhupāda: Same distance is to be supposed according to your theory, because sun is fixed.

Morning Walk -- February 9, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: The same title, De, and same gotra; therefore it is the same family. That is the proof. So in the same family there cannot be any marriage. Sa-gotra. Sa-gotra-vivāha-niṣedha.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: So no member of your family could have married someone in the Mullik family.

Prabhupāda: No. There is another Mullik family. They are different from our family.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are not De's.

Prabhupāda: They are not De's. They are Sil's.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Cee?

Prabhupāda: Sil. Their title is Sil.

Morning Walk -- February 21, 1976, Mayapura:

Acyutānanda: "Or if you cannot convince another, you must have this book to convince any atheist of the science, of the proof of God," everybody goes to that. And Īśopaniṣad, we say, "If you do not understand if God is a person or not person, read Īśopaniṣad."

Prabhupāda: Oh, very good.

Acyutānanda: And then they pick it up. We tease them. And Nectar of Devotion also.

Prabhupāda: Science of...

Acyutānanda: Of how to train the mind.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: The leader of mistake-therefore immediately gives evidence from śāstra. What is the use of quoting from the śāstra? "Just to prove that I am not mistaken, here is the proof."

Madhudviṣa: They would say that there is a way of life which is perfect, but all men are imperfect. There is a way of life.

Prabhupāda: Yes, therefore they... Because you are imperfect, therefore you have to accept the leadership of a perfect person.

Madhudviṣa: They will say no one is perfect.

Prabhupāda: No, that is the... That is your ignorance.

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise why you are sticking to this? This is the proof. You are all young men, you have given up everything. Why you are sticking to Kṛṣṇa consciousness?

Revatinandana: In the West so many young men are joining different groups?

Prabhupāda: They may be rascals. Therefore, therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu... (break) ...told me it is full. But people coming and going, it looks very nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Like a house when it has no occupants, it's not so nice as when there are people moving about.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Canakya Paṇḍita says, putra-hīnaṁ gṛhaṁ śūnyam: "In a home where there is no children, sons and daughters, it is zero."

Morning Walk -- March 17, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So there must be third man, third brain who has created. You cannot do it.

Yaśodānandana: There is actual proof, Prabhupāda, that when these scientists and great, so-called poets, when they die, refusing to admit the authority of God, they die a very terrible death. Just like in France there used to be a great philosopher named Voltaire, and at the end of his life, because his whole writings and existence he tried to disprove the existence of God, he went insane, and he was eating his own stool and urine. And a priest came to him and said, "Why don't you accept the existence of God? You have become such great poet." He said, "I will never accept the existence of God." But he became to the point where he was eating his own stool and urine.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Yaśodānandana: This has been recorded...

Prabhupāda: This is the punishment, yes. Punishment there is always. But they are so stubborn fools still.

Morning Walk -- March 18, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Oh, oh. That plastic bullet is now in motorcar. Even if you fire, it will not enter, the bullet. Is it not?

Gurudāsa: Windows? Plastic in the motorcar?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Bullet-proof glass.

Pañca-draviḍa: Yeah, they have bullet-proof glass.

Gurudāsa: They have something in regular cars that if it hits, it won't break.

Hari-śauri: It shatters.

Gurudāsa: And in the cars of big men they have bullet-proof glass. (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the devotees.... Śatadhanya was asking if there could be a group photograph on the grass this morning after class? For five minutes?

Prabhupāda: (break) .... that we are killing vegetables, but actually we are not killing. They are already dead.

Morning Walk -- March 22, 1976, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Our proof is that we are following the sane man's instruction, or sane being, the Supreme Being. There cannot be any mistake. Therefore, we are sane.

Devotee: They say they are also following.

Prabhupāda: No. Therefore, why they are changing? We don't change, millions of years. What Kṛṣṇa said, we are following the same. But they change every year.

Pañcadraviḍa: That Vairagi Bhava, he showed up in Hong Kong, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Pañcadraviḍa: You know that person who gives us the mandir in Vrndavana and... What's his name? We stay at that Fogal Ashram every year? Vairagi Bhava?

Prabhupāda: Vairagi Bhava.

Morning Walk -- March 26, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: They said everything, but where is the proof?

Cyavana: Well, the scientists saw it.

Prabhupāda: Saw it? Now show us. They saw it at their home.

Cyavana: They put the chemicals, and then it moved. It became alive.

Prabhupāda: All rascals.

Yadubara: In so many years they haven't done anything else.

Prabhupāda: Just see.

Morning Walk -- March 26, 1976, Delhi:

Cyavana: And when you asked him to join us, he said, "I cannot do it."

Prabhupāda: No, no, join or not join.... I mean to say that if I see that somebody has become dog next life, you cannot say not, he has not become a dog. You have no proof. (break) ...create a kingdom that you'll not be allowed to stay there in your kingdom, and by your action you have to accept another body. And what kind of body you are going to accept, you do not know. Therefore they deny next birth.

Morning Walk -- April 9, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Gentleman means that if you go to a gentleman's store, "Beware of the dog. Beware of the revolver." This is your culture. And when you go to the airport everyone is searched out, pocket. So who is gentleman? Is that gentleman? There is no gentleman in the world. All rogues and thieves, cheaters, bluffers. Now we are creating gentlemen. Otherwise there is no gentlemen. Here is the proof. If we are gentleman, why we are being checked in the airport? Hm? This is the proof. There is no gentlemen.

Morning Walk -- June 3, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: The soul is going there. The seer is the same in this gross body or in the subtle bodies. I am in the, walking in this gross body, I'm seeing this ocean, and I will leave my gross body in dream, I go to India. So the seer is the same. That is the proof of transmigration. He's dreaming tiger, and he's crying, "Here is a tiger, tiger, tiger," and another man, who is seer of the body, he says, "Where is tiger?" So this is the difference. One is seeing through this gross body, another seeing through the subtle body, but the seer is the same. Transmigration of the soul means, when he's seeing through.... That is practical. The child, when he's seeing through the childish body, he's talking nonsense. The same soul, when he's talking as an elderly person, he's talking beautiful (indistinct). The seer is the same, simply the glass is changed. Sometimes blue, sometimes red. (break) Seer is the same, medium is different. That you have.... And dead body means the seer is no longer there. It has entered another body.

Morning Walk -- June 5, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: See, this temple, this was closed. There was no men. And now balcony. In the same place, the same countrymen. That is the proof. This building. These boys and girls and men, they are not imported from India.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are formerly Christians and Jews.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rāmeśvara: These demons that are trying to challenge us, they cannot stop our movement for ten thousand years.

Prabhupāda: What is their challenge? They have no, nothing to challenge. Unless they are violent. That much they can do, like demons.

Morning Walk -- June 7, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Snake will die of starvation. It is better. You go and eat.

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, in Egypt, they have been able to dig underneath the ground and find the remains of ancient cities. So this is proof of the ancient civilization of Egypt. But they have not found ancient ruins of the cities of Dvārakā or Hastināpura. They do not have such...

Rādhāvallabha: There are ruins in Dvārakā.

Rāmeśvara: So they do not accept that the ancient civilization of India is old, very old.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: I read one anthropology book, and it said that about 3,500 years ago in India people were only living in all the caves, and they were simply using stones and things like that, very primitive tools. No knowledge at all.

Mahendra: But they cannot explain how it was that these people evolved, these cavemen evolved such a language as Sanskrit, which not even the greatest scholar today can even begin to comprehend. It is a very great language.

Prabhupāda: That is their grudge. When they see such exalted literature, they are envious.

Garden Conversation -- June 8, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: It is observation. That is, a child is growing to another body. So the soul of the child is transferred to another body. What more proof he wants?

Rāmeśvara: There's no visible evidence of the soul.

Prabhupāda: This is visible. Your child, a baby, is on the lap, and after one year, he has got a different body. The old, the old body, on the lap, is finished. Now he is walking. It is another body. Why it is not visible?

Rāmeśvara: They say all matter goes through the stage of development and destruction.

Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all, this is to be answered, that this child, when he was born he was very small, lying on the lap of the mother. Now he's jumping. Now that body which was lying on the lap of the mother is no more existing. He has got another body which is jumping. But the mother knows that "It is my same child." Therefore the same soul is there; the body has changed.

Room Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: This is the proof. A child may not understand that there is, after his childhood body, there is another body, boyhood body or youthful body. He may not understand. But that is the fact. If the child says, "There is no more body. This is the final body," that is not the fact. He is going to get another body which is boy's body, young man's body, old man's body. Similarly, you may believe or not believe, you are going to get another body. The proof is that you have no more the child's body; you have got a different body. The common sense reasoning.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: We can prove immediately.

Richard: Okay, but it's just a wager, it's a moot argument, the proofs are of a spiritual kind rather than a...

Prabhupāda: It requires little brain; otherwise, it can be proved immediately.

Richard: Pardon me, I didn't catch the last part.

Prabhupāda: This, that the spirit soul is there, that can be proved immediately provided one has brain to understand.

Richard: How do you prove that a spirit is dead?

Prabhupāda: That is very easy.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Now what kind of...? This is a fact, just like you have got already another body. Where is that child's body, where is that boy's body? That is finished. This is the proof.

Richard: But I'm still alive.

Prabhupāda: Alive, you are always alive.

Richard: Physically alive.

Prabhupāda: No, physically not. Spiritually, you are always alive. This point is to be understood. The death taking place only of the physical body. That you have to understand.

Richard: Right, but I have never been aware of any proof...

Prabhupāda: That is education. You are not aware because you are not educated.

Richard: Perhaps, but I have never read of anyone else actually proving that there is a spiritual afterlife.

Prabhupāda: Here is the proof, he is giving proof. Therefore I said it requires little brain. He's giving proof.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Richard: Okay, and what I am saying is that I have, there has never been any empirical proof of that.

Rāmeśvara: But I have already explained that these senses are not the perfect instruments for experiencing reality. Just like sometimes there may be a cloud, and therefore you cannot see the sun with your senses, but that does not mean the sun is not there. It simply means your senses are not powerful enough to see. The senses are imperfect instruments for perceiving reality. The sun is always there, but sometimes you can see it and sometimes you can't.

Prabhupāda: Just like night, this is night, you don't see the sun. That does not mean there is no sun.

Rāmeśvara: Don't rely on empirical sense perception.

Richard: Okay, right, you're introducing here though, the essence of all religion, and that is faith. Faith...

Prabhupāda: It's not faith, it is fact. If I say that there is sun and you cannot see, if you deny, "No I don't see. There is no sun," so which is fact?

Richard: Well there is no sun now. There's no sun present.

Prabhupāda: Sun is there. You cannot see.

Room Conversation -- June 10, 1976, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is another proof. That instead of, in spite of the brain is not working, the soul is there.

Richard: Okay, but just let me finish this, and then we'll leave it. The.... Okay, how am I going to say this? Is her spiritual, is her spirit in a less active state from when her brain was alive?

Prabhupāda: Spirit is always active.

Richard: It's always active at the same level?

Prabhupāda: Not same level, because you are understanding the spirit through the body. So body is changing. Just like the soul, when he's in the boy's body, it is talking so many nonsense things. But you don't take it seriously. But when you are grown up, if you talk such nonsense things, then you'll be taken as a nonsense, because the body has changed.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: That is the fear even now, that America has lost their fighting spirit against the Communists.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, yes. Yes. Vietnam. It is proof. When the Vietnam is attacked, American soldiers, they began to fly, flee away, became afraid. Naturally. They were not soldiers. They have no fighting spirit. By force they have been made soldiers. Let them take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. America will be saved. (japa)

Rāmeśvara: Śrīla Prabhupāda, you said yesterday, or a few days ago, that this movement will go on unimpeded for ten thousand years, so...

Prabhupāda: Yes, provided we keep it uncontaminated. You should take this opportunity.

Rāmeśvara: So after ten years we have gotten so many devotees and so many houses, so I can't imagine how big this movement will be after ten thousand years.

Prabhupāda: Yes. You'll get the government.

Room Conversation with Mother and Sons -- June 13, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: One or two words, that is enough. Godless civilization. Everything, there is proof, there is father, the supreme father. And still they do not believe in God. He says ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā, "I am the seed-giving father." We have got experience that father gives the seed in the womb of the mother and then the child takes body from the mother and comes out. Everyone knows.

Garden Conversation -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: There was no objection.

Mādhavānanda: He sold it to the lawyer, Ambarīṣa's lawyer. He did not do a very good job for us, and the proof is that the owner sold the boat to the lawyer. He got a very good deal. So he was working with Groane(?), the former owner.

Prabhupāda: In his favor.

Mādhavānanda: In his favor.

Prabhupāda: Cheating.

Mādhavānanda: Yes.

Garden Conversation -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: And still we are living very comfortably.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Another proof is even when there are austerities, we do not mind to accept it because there is a higher pleasure.

Prabhupāda: Yes. We have greater pleasure, that this austerity will please Kṛṣṇa. So we must do it. Our aim is how to please Kṛṣṇa. That is our argument. Go on reading.

Jayādvaita: "On the other hand, there is the brāhmaṇa, or he who is intelligent enough to utilize this body to solve all the problems of life. The kṛpaṇas, or miserly persons, waste their time..."

Prabhupāda: The real problem of life is birth, death, old age and disease. They do not understand this. They are so.... Just like animals. Animal does not understand what is birth, death, old age and disease. Real problem is there, but they are so dull-headed that their attention is diverted from the real problem. Temporary problems, they are busy. Just like, one major disease, one is suffering from a major disease. On account of that, he has sometimes headache, sometimes pain here, sometimes so many, minor. So, because we are subjected to meet death, so these minor conditions are there. The real problem is after suffering, suffering, suffering, suffering, when the body is no more able to bear suffering, it dies. Just like one man commits suicide. When he cannot control himself from the suffering, he voluntarily commits suicide. So death is the ultimate suffering. But we do not want suffering. Therefore problem is death. But who is anxious to solve this problem? They are not intelligent even. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam (BG 13.9). They do not know even what are the problems.

Morning Walk -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Satsvarūpa: People in the classes, when the students say that that they do not see God, there is no proof for God, I give that argument you give. I say, "Well, I am a common layman, I have no proof that we've actually gone to the moon. At least I haven't gone to the moon. Show me right away that you can prove it me." They say, "Well, we have rocks, they brought back rocks." "I don't believe that they are from the moon." They are astonished that I..., we could actually doubt. (laughter)

Ambarīṣa: There is another planet that is close to the earth that they could have gone to, isn't there?

Prabhupāda: (indistinct) some petrol station in the sky?

Ambarīṣa and Satsvarūpa: I never heard that.

Hari-śauri: They've been planning all kinds of space laboratories and things like that.

Prabhupāda: No, there was some plan that there would be...

Satsvarūpa: Another planet?

Prabhupāda: No, intermediate station for supplying petrol.

Morning Walk -- June 21, 1976, Toronto:

Prabhupāda: And how intelligent they are. I give you my child for your protection, and you cut his throat. How intelligent you are. That is the proof. Something is given for protection, and they're cutting the throat. This is their intelligence. (break)

Indian man: ...the article in Back to Godhead there was a question raised, that "What is purpose of life?" and it was stated that the purpose of life is to realize God. Could you kindly explain a little more on that?

Prabhupāda: That I was explaining last night. Human life is meant for understanding what is the goal of life. The goal of life is to go back to home, back to Godhead. If they do not go back to home, back to Godhead, then remain here, become a tree. Stand, for five thousand years. Sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. Two millions you have to pass through. And each species, some thousands of years. And such two million. So, how many years? Hmm? Two millions of varieties of vegetables. And each item, if you pass, say hundred years.

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: But you are intelligent. Why you are putting the forefather's words? You avoid it. That means you are cheating people. You do not believe in, but you still write it. That means cheating. Why do you write such things in which you do not believe? That means cheating. Hmm? What do you think? If you write something which you do not believe in, are you not cheating? That means cheating. You take word, you are giving a piece of paper, and it is written there, "one thousand dollars." That means you are cheating, in the name of God, he will accept you, that's all. If you say, "No, I don't want paper. Give me gold dollar," then you are finished. Your currency will be finished. Immediately there will be revolution, that "The government is cheating us." Actually it is cheating. What is the proof, value, of this paper, little paper? Simply "I promise to pay, governor and this..." But it is on trust only: "Yes, government will pay me." They'll never pay, but so long the government goes on, it will go on, that's all, cheating will go on. And as soon government fails, you throw in the street, no one will care for it. It has been practically proved in the last war, in Germany. There was scarcity of food, and those who had bunch of currency notes, they went for one piece of bread, so many thousand marks, "Give me." Nobody supplied. So the paper has no value, but if we believe, it has value, that's all. Otherwise what is the meaning of this paper, one thousand dollars? So it is a kind of cheating, "We trust in God; we are very good men. You trust in me."

Garden Conversation -- June 22, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Devotee (4): I was thinking earlier how a farmer can put the seed in the ground, but he cannot actually make the seed grow if it is not the will of Kṛṣṇa.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The situation is not favorable. That is the proof that everything is a living entity. If you put the seed... The seed is not the tree, but when you put the seed on the ground, if the situation is favorable, the particular living entity who has to take the form of that tree, he comes, and then it grows. That is the proof. Just like sex. It is not the secretion of the man and the woman. It creates a situation so that the soul may come and live there, and then there is pregnancy. It is not the matter. This is the proof.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Does that mean to some extent that the soul is dependent on a material condition?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi (BG 13.22). Find out this verse, puruṣaḥ prakṛti-stho hi.

Hari-śauri: Just like when the body is no good, the soul has to leave.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the proof there is soul.

Room Conversation -- June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: White spot means decomposed. Fungus. Nānā yoni brāhmaṇa kare kadārya bhakṣaṇa kari' tāra janma adho pate yāya.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Śrīla Prabhupāda, we can point out all the defects in their system but then they say "But there is no proof that such a perfect society has ever existed as you speak of. We have no evidence that such a perfect society exists."

Prabhupāda: You can see, come and see with us. Live in our New Vrindaban, you'll see.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Then they say "Well, that is all right for you, but that is not practical for everyone."

Kīrtanānanda: Why not? We are human beings, and you are human being.

Prabhupāda: So what is not practical for you, our system, your system is also not practical for us. We cannot live in this way. Anyway, if you can maintain a perfect community of plain living, high thinking, that is sufficient. We do not canvass, but naturally they will see that this is convenient. After all, they are human beings. They are learning. So that is part of our business to preach, but to practice personally, that is our main business. To practice personally, that is our main business. Not that everyone will be preacher, but at least his own life be perfect.

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Vipratve sūtram eva hi. And there is a brāhmaṇa. What is the proof that he is a brāhmaṇa? He has got a sacred thread, that's all. Or thread. It may not be sacred; purchased on the market. So at least we try to give a sacred thread by ceremony. But anyone can purchase a thread from the market, two-paisa worth or one-cent worth, and become a brāhmaṇa. "You are a brāhmaṇa?" "Yes, you see my sacred thread?" (laughter) Finished. "What you are doing?" "Never mind." Don't be such brāhmaṇas, at least in our camp. You must follow the rules and regulations. Don't show that "I am now doubly initiated, sacred thread." Don't cheat in that way.

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Hmm. Lāvaṇyam, now you know very well in the Western country. Beauty increases by having long hair. (laughter) I was just trying to recite this verse only, and now see how it is current. Who expected that this foretelling is there in the Bhāgavatam? To increase beauty, have long hair. Is it not? Now just see. How five thousand years this thing was foretold? That is the proof. There was no hippie movement then. (laughs) But Vyāsadeva foretold that in the Kali-yuga if one keeps long hair he will think himself as very beautiful. There are so many things. Ultimately, with the advancement of Kali-yuga you'll have no food. Food means there will be no food grains, there will be no milk, there will be no sugar, like that. No fruits. If you get fruits, there will be no pulp, it is simply seeds. These things are there. You get a mango, but a mango means simply the big seed, that's all. So how can you check it? If nature's way, things are going to happen like that, what the scientists will do? If there is no rice, no wheat, will the scientists...? They can say replace with a pill, but they cannot produce wheat or rice or dahl or milk, sugar. That is not possible.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Hari-śauri: He did a practical demonstration of what he said a person who is in touch with God can be capable of doing if he allows himself to become an instrument of God. So for eight months he painted continually, and he produced 27,000 paintings, and he said that this was proof that he was God realized.

Prabhupāda: Mauna, the word begins with mauna.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Maunam, like in silence. Mauna-vrata-śruta-tapo-'dhvavana?

mauna-vrata-sruta-tapo-'dhyayana-sva-dharma-
vyākhya-raho-japa-samādhaya āpavargyaḥ
prāyaḥ paraṁ puruṣa te tv ajitendriyānāṁ
vārtā bhavanty uta na vātra tu dāmbhikānām
(SB 7.9.46)

"O Supreme Personality of Godhead, there are ten prescribed methods on the path to liberation—to remain silent, not to speak to anyone, to observe vows, to amass all kinds of Vedic knowledge, to undergo austerities, to study the Vedas and other Vedic literatures, to execute the duties of varṇāśrama-dharma, to explain the śāstras, to stay in a solitary place, to chant mantras silently, and to be absorbed in trance. These different methods for liberation are generally only a professional practice and means of livelihood..."

Prabhupāda: Means of livelihood.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: This is the beginning of Caitanya-caritāmṛta. So will anyone be able to understand this verse? Hmm? Everything is stated there, what is Caitanya. Will everyone be able to understand it? That is the proof that he's not graduate. If he is graduate, then he should understand. Therefore it is postgraduate.

Kulādri: One must understand Bhagavad-gītā before Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam?

Prabhupāda: Yes. It is stated there yad advaitaṁ brahma upaniṣadi. That means he must understand the Upaniṣads. He must understand what is Brahman. So without understanding this, how he can understand Caitanya-caritāmṛta? It will be explained there, but the fact is this. What is that? Is there any explanation?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No, there's no purport to this verse.

Prabhupāda: So further on there is explanation.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Kulaśekhara: So we should simply try to understand Kṛṣṇa?

Prabhupāda: Yes. No. Try to understand everything, but understanding Kṛṣṇa, you understand everything. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam eva vijñātaṁ bhavanti. And because you do not understand Kṛṣṇa, therefore you do not understand Brahman, you do not understand Paramātmā. But if you understand Kṛṣṇa, then it is automatically understood. We have not understood Brahman, Paramātmā, because we have not understood Kṛṣṇa properly. Kṛṣṇa says, aham sarvasya prabhavaḥ (BG 10.8), "I am the source of everything." So Brahman is also from Kṛṣṇa, Paramātmā is also from Kṛṣṇa. And so other Bhagavāns—there are so many Bhagavāns also—they are from Kṛṣṇa. So if you understand Kṛṣṇa you can understand everything. And as soon as you say that you have not understood it, therefore you have not understood Kṛṣṇa. They cannot understand, just like Māyāvādīs, they do not understand Kṛṣṇa, therefore they do not understand Brahman also. And therefore they fall down, because they have not understood either Brahman or Kṛṣṇa. Patanty adhaḥ. This is stated in the śāstra. Anādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ, because they have not understood Kṛṣṇa, even they have gone up to the Brahman, they cannot stand there; they fall down. Again they come to the material world. The Māyāvādīs, they say, brahma satyma jagan mithyā, "Brahman is truth, and this material world is false." They take sannyāsa, but after some time they fall down, again take to other businesses than Brahman in the material world. Just like our Vivekananda. He came to the Western countries to preach Vedānta, and he has advertised that "Whole America has become Vedantist." The proof of Vedānta is when he returned to India he became very enthusiastic to open hospitals like the Christian missionaries.

Garden Conversation -- June 27, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Then follow. If you willfully remain a rascal, that is the difference. Otherwise, if you follow you'll become advanced. Everywhere you'll find Kṛṣṇa's intelligence. He says mayādhyakṣeṇa (BG 9.10). They explain, "Nature." But they cannot explain what is nature. We can explain. Nature is a system which is being handled by Kṛṣṇa. That is real understanding. Nature, we can see that from nature this flower is coming, this flower is coming. But why not...? They say accidentally. If it is accident, why in the plant of this flower sometimes rose is not coming accidentally? And why from the rose plant not accidentally this flower is coming? So where is the question of accident? You have never experienced such accident. The same plant, the same flower is coming. Where is a proof by accident another flower has come? Where is the proof? So why do they say like that, accident?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Because they don't want to accept God.

Prabhupāda: No, no, accept God or not, where the accident theory comes?

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: Well if they don't give some explanation, then they'll be considered fools.

Prabhupāda: Some explanation, they have to give you something foolish explanation? So foolish man will accept that, not a sane man. If you say "By accident," then I'll say why not accident in the history of the world there is a rose plant some other flower has come out? If man has come from monkey, why not coming now? So they give so may foolish propositions, only fools will accept. Anyone who has a little reasoning power they will not, they'll understand that these are all crazy fellows, talking all nonsense. Harāv abhaktasya kuto mahad-guṇāḥ. We have got little formula to understand that if one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious he has no good qualifications. He cannot say anything as a qualified person. That is the test. Mūḍha. Immediately take: a mūḍha. Let the mūḍhas speak all nonsense. Why should we waste our time? This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As soon as we find somebody not Kṛṣṇa conscious, not a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, we take, reject, he's a rascal, that's all. And he is rascal.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:
Prabhupāda: Similarly, guru is Kṛṣṇa and guru is necessary. But one must surrender to Kṛṣṇa or Kṛṣṇa's representative. Then he will be successful. So so far.... Now, one can say that Kṛṣṇa is not present. But Kṛṣṇa is not present, how you can say? Kṛṣṇa's instruction is there, Bhagavad-gītā. How you can say that.... Kṛṣṇa, absolute, means the Supreme Lord is not different from His words also. The words of Kṛṣṇa and the Kṛṣṇa, they are the same. That is Absolute Truth. In the relative world the words "water" and the substance water are different. If I am thirsty, if I simply chant "water, water, water," my thirst will not be satisfied. I require the real water. That is relative world. But in the spiritual world.... Just like we are chanting Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. If Kṛṣṇa is different from Hare Kṛṣṇa, then how we are satisfied chanting whole day and night? This is the proof. The ordinary thing, if you chant, "Mr. John, Mr. John," after chanting three times you'll cease. But this Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, if you go on chanting 24 hours, you'll never be tired. this is the spiritual Absolute Truth. That is practical. Anyone can perceive. So Kṛṣṇa's present by His words, by His representative. Why don't you take? You have to take guru. Why do you go to the pseudo guru who will mislead you? Why don't you take to the real guru? That is your mistake. Therefore you are now disappointed. Now you are in doubt whether guru is needed. Yes, guru is needed, but you go to the real guru. That is instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā. Just find out this verse.
Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But we have to see by the result. The result is... Only platform, that only platform, that is decided... Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmaḥ. That is actually religion. How? Yato bhaktir adhokṣaje. If one has learned how to love God. If there is no love of God, then what is the use of claiming that this is the only platform? Where is the sign of love of Godhead? That is to be seen. Simply if you say... Everyone will say, "This, my, this property is the best, or my understanding is..." But there must be practical proof. The practical proof-say how to love God, what is the process of loving God? If you do not know your relationship with God and other's relationship with God, then how you know God? That is lacking. Nobody can give clear conception of God. Can the Christians give? Then where is love of God? If you have no understanding of what is God, where is the question of love? Love is not fictitious. You cannot love air. You love a person, a beautiful person, a beautiful woman. If you say, "I love air. I love the sky..." Where there is question of love?There must be a person. So who is that person we want to love? But they have no personal conception of God, neither they can describe the personal beauty, capacity, strength, ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇaḥ. There is no such description. So they have got the conception of God, but actually they do not know what is God. But religion means you must know God and love Him. That is religion. That is first class religion. Is that clear or not?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes.

Answers to a Questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal -- June 28, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: God is great. That's all. God is great. Kṛṣṇa proved that He's great. Therefore He's God. Everyone says, "God is great." Allah akbar, Muslims say. God is great. It is translated, "God is great." And Hindu says, paraṁ brahma. So God is great. So Kṛṣṇa proved that He is all-great. Therefore He is God. Kṛṣṇa, when He was present, He proved it that He is the great. Therefore He's God. If you accept God is great, and if you find somebody, he is great in everything, then he's God. How can I deny it? At least, you can see Kṛṣṇa great by His Bhagavad-gītā. It is still going on. Five thousand years passed, still Bhagavad-gītā is accepted as the greatest book of knowledge all over the world. Even among the Christians, among the Muslims, those who are really learned, they take it, "Yes." That is greatness of Kṛṣṇa, the knowledge. Who can give such knowledge? That is the proof that He is God. Aiśvaryasya samāgrasya viryasya yasasaḥ... Jñāna, knowledge. Where is such knowledge throughout the whole world? Everything, every line is sublime knowledge. If one studies scrutinizingly Bhagavad-gītā, you find Kṛṣṇa is Supreme Lord.

Garden Conversation -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Rādhāvallabha: They get angry if we tell them that.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is, means they are rascal. When there is argument between you and me, if one becomes angry, that means he's a rascal. That is the proof. He cannot reply anymore. He has become angry. That is his defeat. Upadeśo hi mūrkhāṇāṁ prakopāya na śāntaye. Mūrkha, a rascal is given good instruction, he'll be angry. So that is the proof that he's rascal. That is the proof. The example is given, payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam. Just like if you give milk, very nourishing food, to a human being, he'll get strength, but if you give to a snake, it will increase poison. So that is the proof that here is a snake. So payaḥ-pānaṁ bhujaṅgānāṁ kevalaṁ viṣa-vardhanam. If you give milk to a human child he'll grow healthy, and the same milk you give to a serpent child, it will grow poison. One day he'll: "Ohnn!" He'll ready to bite you. You have given milk, it has increased poison, and it will show his fangs, hood. That is asura.

Room Conversation After Film -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: You have no difficulty. You are happy more and more. Immense land. You can come, hundreds. We can provide. There is food. There is shelter.

Kīrtanānanda: They are worried that by protecting the cow it would not be economic, that they would lose. But actually we have proof—the more we protect cows, the more we gain in opulence.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Kīrtanānanda: Our community is gaining in opulence.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Dhānyena dhanavān. If you have got grain, then you are rich. And if you have got cows, then you are rich. This is the standard of Vedic richness. Dhānyena dhanavān gavayo dhanavān. They don't say, "Keep some papers and you become rich." All rascal, one thousand dollar I promise to pay, a piece of paper. Practical, we have got enough food grains. We have got enough... That is richness. What is use of paper? Even gold you have got, you have to exchange. And if you have grain, immediate food. Just boil with milk, and it is nectarean, param anna, immediately. Take some wood collected from the wood and have fire, put the milk and the grains-oḥ, you'll get so nice food, nutritious, full of vitamin, and so easily made. It is practical. So tasteful, so nutritious, and don't require. If you simply boil little milk and little grain, whole day, so much sweet rice, you take-bas. You don't require any more. And if you add little apples and fruits, oh, it is heavenly. Your whole day free from any food anxiety, and you can work. And you can work. You can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Make this ideal life here. America has got good potency. We have got so much land here. We can have hundreds of New Vrindabans or farms like that. And people will be happy. And invite all the world, "Please come and live with us. Why you are suffering congestion, overpopulation? Welcome here. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." Make that. Indian culture and American strength make the whole world happy.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Now these statements are quite scientifically valid and sound. Now this will be verified in our next slide that is called the axioms. This is called structure of a theory. In scientific disciplines, specifically in mathematics, now scientists work with a beginning called axioms. There are two types of axioms. First one is logical axiom, and second one is theoretical axioms. Now from these axioms, by inference, actually one deduces these theorems. That's in the second block. From there, by observation, we have this object of study. Now the basic question is wherefrom these axioms coming from? The starting point, axioms, they take it for granted, and actually there is no proof. It is beyond proof, beyond any scientific proof.

Prabhupāda: Vedānta-sūtra means all axiom. Vedānta-sūtra, that is all axiom. Axiomatic truth.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So the way that science works, also they depend on axioms. But actually, when one analyzes this a little thoughtfully, one should come to the conclusion that actually these axioms are coming from the Absolute. So our first proposition that in order to understand life and matter one must have this, er, some knowledge of the Absolute Truth is scientifically sound.

Prabhupāda: I tried to explain something in the beginning of Īśopaniṣad, my lecture in the Conway Hall, what is that Absolute Truth. "Introduction." I have given the example that the Vedas say cow dung is pure. This is axiomatic truth. Now if you analyze cow dung you'll find all the antiseptic properties are there. This is axiomatic.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Well, we get information that in the spiritual world the spiritual world is full of variegatedness. It is not just one variety. It is full of varieties. So we take that as proof of the complex nature of life.

Prabhupāda: We see that so long the life is there in the material body, he has got varieties of thoughts. That is the proof that life is full of varieties. As soon as the life is not there, no more varieties, only one variety, dead body, that's all, finished. And as long as the life is there, he has got so many ideas, so many arts, so many philosophies, so many... That is the proof that life is full of varieties. That is the proof. As soon as the life is off, there is no variety. So what do you want, more proof that life is full of variety.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes. Śrīla Prabhupāda, in this connection, this variegatedness in connection with life, can you take it as some sort of complex structures?

Prabhupāda: You can... Because we, at the present moment, we cannot understand, except physics and chemistry, we cannot understand life. So as we do not understand life, so therefore the definition by negation is there. It is not physical, not chemical. It is something beyond. But by practical experience we can see that when there is life, a living man wants varieties. That's a fact. Varieties. Otherwise, why we disagree? I have got some varieties, you have got some varieties. So the conclusion should be tested that living condition or life is full of varieties, therefore the kingdom of life, the spiritual kingdom, must be full of varieties. That is the conclusion.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: This is the proof. Consciousness developed and the symptoms are there. Just like we are studying this. Our consciousness is developed. This discussion is not possible by the animals, although it has got the all life symptom. Therefore because our consciousness is developed, we can inquire. Therefore in the human form of life it is the only business to inquire about the Absolute. Now, athāto brahma jijñāsā. The animals, they can inquire where is some food, where is some stool. That much. They have no other power. But when one becomes..., gets this machine of human form of body... The Vedānta axiom is "Now it is the time for inquiring about the Absolute Truth." Athāto brahma jijñāsā. That is real human life, when he inquires about the Absolute Truth. Otherwise, it is animal life. And there are so many department of education means inquiries. In the human society, there are departmental education. Physics department, chemist department, mathematics department, this department, that... Why? Because there are different inquiries. So Vedānta-sūtra says that the prime inquiry is to inquire about the Absolute Truth. That is human life. If there is no inquiry about the Absolute truth, then still he is animal. So those who are simply satisfied with the physics and chemistry, they are still animals.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Yes, sterilization. And then see whether there is any life developed within that broth. Now in the first flask, the neck is still attached to the flask. Now Pasteur found that there was no micro-organisms fermenting the flask, in the solution inside the flask. But after some time he cut the neck of the flask, that is in the second flask, then as soon as the neck is cut, then microorganisms from the air, surrounding air, atmosphere, entered into the flask, and then the solution is fermented. So that was actually the proof that without presence of the micro-organisms from outside, from the atmosphere, then life cannot grow into that matter.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is Vedic theory. That is explained in the Bhāgavatam.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: And here he has a nice quote, Pasteur. Somebody can read that?

Hari-śauri: Says: "Posterity will one day laugh at the foolishness of the modern materialistic philosophers. The more I study nature, the more I stand amazed at the works of the creator."

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: So he believed actually completely in the divine concept, divine personality. But unfortunately this experiment has been misinterpreted by these demoniac scientists.

Prabhupāda: That is also Vedic conception, that sex between man and woman is not the cause of life. Unless the living soul comes in the proper situation, the man's secretion, woman's secretion combined together emulsifies, and it creates a proper situation for the rest of the soul. So contraceptive method means that emulsification is disturbed. It does not create the proper situation; therefore pregnancy does not happen. Or imperfect discharge. The main point is that the two discharges, they create a situation wherein the living entity comes and rests. Then it will grow. Not that that is the cause of life. The mixture of two secretions is not the cause of life. That creates a proper situation, and the life comes.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. That is the proof.

Sadāpūta: Actually, this couldn't come about by just chance, because the number of possibilities...

Prabhupāda: There is, but he takes it as chance. All the possibilities taken together he is given by God. That he does not know. He takes it as chance. But there is no question of chance. It is the gift of God.

Sadāpūta: Next example, this is another example taken from music. This example is Mozart. Mozart was a musician. He composed symphonies. And in that quote which-I'll just summarize it instead of reading it—he explains how it was that he created these symphonies. He explained that actually what happened was that ideas just came into his mind, melodic themes and so on, and he says "Whence do they come I do not know, and I have nothing to do with it." And actually what would happen was that an entire symphony would just blossom into his mind, and he wouldn't even know where it was coming from.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes, you see the way physical and atomical constitution of the animal and the man, the same. If you say man has soul, then the animal has also soul. If you deny that man has no soul, then you can also deny. But so far physiological... They, in the biological laboratory, they dissect the frogs to see the similar arrangement. So how you can you say the frog has no soul? Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Sadāpūta: Śrīla Prabhupāda, on Saturday Svarūpa Dāmodara was talking about the scientific proof of the Absolute Truth from the Kṛṣṇa conscious point of view. When one realizes Kṛṣṇa, the Absolute Truth, does one also see like how the physical world is manifesting itself? Do we understand all physical laws, how chemicals are combining, or...? What do we actually understand when we understand the Absolute Truth?

Prabhupāda: Absolute Truth, there is direction. Scientific explanation is... You were showing the picture that everything is being performed under some direction, not whimsically. Therefore there is somebody dictating.

Sadāpūta: You see the cause of everything?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: ...potency of hari-nāma-kīrtana, everyone will join. We have to be sincerely working, then everything... Kṛṣṇa will. Natural, even child, drunkard, sane man, everyone was.

Vipina: Yes, they were all dancing.

Prabhupāda: The proof was there.

Vipina: You said last night that actually they all want to dance, but they're artificially checking. (break)

Prabhupāda: Birth, death. (laughter)

Svarūpa Dāmodara: I saw Niagara Falls, Śrīla Prabhupāda.

Prabhupāda: I have seen.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: You have seen? How do you like it?

Prabhupāda: Oh, very nice. The water is very clean. Īśāna took me there when I was (at) Buffalo.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Devotee (1): The Vedanta Society was formed...

Prabhupāda: No, no, the other day we spoke that... Now in Vṛndāvana, you know we have got our temple. So the Ramakrishna Mission, they have got their temple also. In our temple, thousands and thousands of these Americans came, and not a single one went here. If they had preached anything, then why these American boys and girls are not interested, "Let us see where the Ramakrishna Mission stays." They do not know even. There are many present here who went to Vṛndāvana, and none of them were interested to see. Why? lf there was any propaganda... This is practical proof. Why none of them were interested, "Oh, here is also Ramakrishna Mandir, let us go here"? Nobody. Is it practical?

Guest: Yes, of course. Of course, even in India I don't think Vivekananda is that popular.

Dr. Sukla: Within one period, people who probably just had no good books to read, and they got some of his writings. I know my father brought some books and...

Prabhupāda: So where is your home?

Dr. Sukla: It's in Benares, Kāśī.

Conversation with Prof. Saligram and Dr. Sukla -- July 5, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the proof.

Dr. Sukla: Yes, because he was, when he was thirteen or seventeen he was walking, he was going from one village to another village through the paddy fields, and the clouds were very thick and thunder and lightning, and he writes that he saw Kali, and I have a friend in England, Carl Wilson, who has done some work on Ramakrishna, he believes that at that very moment...

Prabhupāda: These are miracles, that's all. It has no value. People are after miracles. So in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ yajante 'nya-devatāḥ (BG 7.20). Those who are worshipers of other demigods, they are hṛta-jñānāḥ. Hṛta-jñānāḥ. Śrīla Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura gives his comment, hṛta-jñānāḥ naṣṭa buddhayaḥ, one who has lost his intelligence. So by worshiping the demigod Kali he is to be considered as hṛta-jñānāḥ, one who has lost his intelligence—and he becomes God. Is it possible? One who has lost his intelligence, he becomes God. With that lost intelligence. And this is the proof that on account of lost intelligence, he says yata mata tata pat. Kṛṣṇa says mām ekam. Sarva dharmān parityajya (BG 18.66). And when he became Ramakrishna, same Kṛṣṇa is speaking, yata mata tata pat. So he has changed his view. We have to accept this? And how he gave up his wife, that's a long history, I don't wish to discuss. We know everything. So we cannot accept something which is beyond the instruction of śāstra.

Evening Darsana -- July 7, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Bill Sauer: Is that immediately after one dies you transfer to another body, or later?

Prabhupāda: Yes, body is changing every moment. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā lesson.

dehino 'smin yathā dehe
kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā
tathā dehāntara-prāptir
dhīras tatra na muhyati
(BG 2.13)

Every body... Just like a child is changing his body to boyhood, boy is changing his body to youthhood, kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā. The young man is becoming old man. Similarly, when the body is no more endurable, then you get another body. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). This body is being destroyed, we are not destroyed. We living entities, we are nityaḥ śāśvato 'yam. We are eternal. The proof is given that the child is growing, getting the boy's body. That means the living entity is there, he has changed bodies. When a child is grown to become a boy, the father, mother do not think that "My child is no more existing." He knows "My child is existing, but in a different body." This is common sense. So we shall exist, we existed in the past, we are existing now and we shall exist in the future, but in a different body.

Morning Walk -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Why these rascals compare it with Arizona? As if there is no other place in the world. Everything they are doing in Arizona. All photograph in this place. Now they have been caught. I was always protesting, "These rascals have never gone." For the last ten years I've protested. Whenever they asked me, I say straightly, "It is all childish. They have never gone, neither they'll be able to go." That has been proof available. Now they do not talk about it. That is finished, all propaganda, finished. Now they have taken another...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Mars.

Prabhupāda: ...to keep their service in order. This is going on, all cheating. To keep people in darkness and exploit them. The so-called swamis exploiting, yogis exploiting, politician exploiting, scientists exploiting, philosophers exploiting. What is the position of the world? And this is the opportunity, human life, to know everything, to solve all the problems. They are not given the opportunity, they are kept in darkness. The demons. "There is no God, science is everything, life is produced from chemicals, and there is no living entities on other planets." They are simply show. This planet is full of..., it is all scientists, and they are vacant. And we have to believe that. Perhaps for the first time I am raising protest against all this nonsense.

Room Conversation -- July 10, 1976, New York:

Rādhāvallabha: They have here proof that his mantra is no different than any ordinary sound. It says "In a Stanford Research Institute experiment, a group of TM trainees was compared to a control group who had been taught a fake mantra that they believed would be effective. In both groups some subjects were able to bring unpleasant psychosomatic symptoms under control. Three of these dropped out of the TM training group. Their symptoms returned. Two dropped out of the control group; their symptoms came back too. Evidence like that suggests that whatever works in the TM system, it does not depend upon the mystical mantra."

Prabhupāda: Let their men come and talk with our men in a public meeting. Then people will understand what is the difference.

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: They are hopeful of everything. That is their foolishness. Hope against hope, that's all. The hope will never be fulfilled, still... Therefore they are called pramatta. Pramatta means mad, crazy. Their hopefulness means that is a proof that crazy, mad.

Bali-mardana: Some of the rich men, they buy a cabinet that their body is put into, and they hope that they will wake up in a thousand years.

Prabhupāda: Yes, hope there must be, otherwise how they are foolish? This is called..., what is called? Bakāṇḍo nyāya. Baka, the duck, and aṇḍa, the testicle. So the bull, he has a testicle hanging, and the baka is thinking it is a fish. (laughter) So he's going, he's... (laughter). This is called bakāṇḍo nyāya.

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1976, New York:

Prabhupāda: Yes, from the, it is out of touch from the original bark. Similarly, any civilization which is out of touch of God consciousness, that will dry up in due course of time.

Devotee (1): Yesterday, Svarūpa Dāmodara—we were speaking about the scientists—he said that they don't accept our proof that God exists as being any more conclusive than their proof that He doesn't exist.

Prabhupāda: Hmm?

Devotee (1): In other words, they don't accept that we have any proof that God exists. They say God doesn't exist.

Prabhupāda: God exists, we have given so many proofs. If the rascal cannot understand, what can be done? There is mother, there is children; where is the father? This is our argument. Mother, the earth is mother, and everything, these trees, we are all coming out of mother, mother nature. And who is the father? What is the answer? Now, what the atheist will say that there is no God? How they will say?

Rāmeśvara: They say the earth is the mother and the father.

Morning Walk -- July 20, 1976, New York:

Rāmeśvara: Yes, the different...

Prabhupāda: No, no, how it is growing? When it was put into the bottle, why it did not grow? It remained as it is.

Rāmeśvara: They say because they severed its connection with the mother.

Prabhupāda: That means the baby has grown from the mother. So mother is life. That is the proof. Otherwise how the baby has grown? You cannot say that life can be grown out of matter.

Rāmeśvara: Life from life.

Prabhupāda: As soon as they say that "It has grown from the mother," the mother is life.

Rāmeśvara: Life from life.

Prabhupāda: That's it.

Room Conversation -- July 26, 1976, London:

Bhagavān: Yeah. This is just the press proof. It needs improvement.

Prabhupāda: Fifty thousand?

Bhagavān: Twenty-five thousand. The translators have been working day and night for the last two weeks to get everything ready. They are now in Italy. We are printing this book in Italy.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Cheaper?

Bhagavān: Very cheap. Very cheap. Including composition, the book cost $1.75.

Prabhupāda: Oh, very cheap.

Bhagavān: Sixty-four color pictures.

Prabhupāda: It is very nice.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Prabhupāda: If you accept human being has soul, you have to accept animal has soul. If you accept animal has no soul, then there is no soul.

Mike Robinson: Well what proof have you got, then, that a human being has got a soul?

Prabhupāda: That is your business. We say everyone has soul. The animal has soul and the man has soul.

Mike Robinson: But if you're going to be rational, you've got surely to prove, you see you've got to prove that a human being has a soul.

Prabhupāda: This is rational. Because we see all the points of similarity, analogy, therefore the human being has soul and the animal has soul, by points of similarity.

Mike Robinson: Yes, I can see the point you're trying to make about similarity, but what I'm asking is, what proof do you have that a human being has a soul?

Prabhupāda: That is, I have already begun. As soon as the soul is gone, what is the value of your this beautiful body? Who cares for this body? You throw it away, kick it out. And now, if I touch your hair, there will be fight. (laughter) Yes. That is the distinction. The soul is there and soul is not there. As soon as soul is not there, it has no value, useless.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Mike Robinson: So you would say that science can prove that God exists?

Prabhupāda: Yes, here is proof. Here is the proof, that there is children. Children are children; there is mother; so there must be father. This is proof. It doesn't require much proof.

Mike Robinson: I see. Can you tell me what you believe to be the meaning of life, why do we exist in the first place?

Prabhupāda: Meaning of life means to enjoy, but we are in a different platform of life. Therefore we are suffering instead of enjoying. But if you come to the real platform, then you enjoy. Because here we see struggle for existence, everyone is struggling, but what is the aim? For enjoyment of life. Therefore life means enjoyment. But at the present moment our life is not enjoyment.

Evening Conversation -- August 8, 1976, Tehran:

Pradyumna: "Only the material body of the indestructible, immeasurable and eternal living entity is subject to destruction."

Prabhupāda: Yes, the body's destructible, but the spirit soul is not destructible. When you understand this point, then we understand what is spirit, and then spiritual culture begins. Without being convinced of this spirit soul, there is no question of spiritual culture. So the spirit soul is described as eternal. And the proof is given, eternity. Just like there are so many children. They'll grow up from childhood to boyhood, from boyhood to youthhood. The body is changing. This is very practical. But the spirit soul is there, the same spirit soul which was within the womb of the mother in a small body. Then coming out of the mother's womb, the same spirit soul is there, but the body is different. In this way, the body is being situated in different status, but we know that the proprietor of the body is the same. Is there any difficulty to understand? Anyone? The body is changing, that's a fact. You are young man. You'll have to become an old man like me. That means body will change. But so far you are concerned, you are the same. So, the body changes and the spirit soul remains the same.

Evening Darsana -- August 9, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Then there is the proof of less intelligence. God is great, very good, but how He is great. What is the conception of greatness. You accept me as a spiritual master, great, so you have got some conception of greatness. That you see in your spiritual master, therefore you accept him. And if you have no conception of greatness, what is the meaning of "He is great"? Therefore the real fact is, in the world there is no religion. They do not understand what is God, what is religion. Traditional, you can say superstition or some idea, actually no clear conception of religion. No idea in the world, except that in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. All vague ideas. "God is great," that's all. How He is great and worshipable? Who is God? And our ideal is to love God. So if I do not know about God, if I do not know who is God, then where is the question of love?

Nandarāṇī: But their faith is there.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: But why the Indians, they are not like the Americans? You find in India still millions of people will go to the Kumbhamelā with torn cloth. They are not like Americans, riches. Why they take? Indian is well-known poverty-stricken. So why almost ninety-nine percent people, they are after Kṛṣṇa consciousness naturally? Still they'll go, when there is Kumbhamelā, so many saintly persons are coming. They will come by lakhs. Have you seen it? You have seen Kumbhamelā? You have seen? That is the proof. Not only Kumbhamelā. In Vṛndāvana, just like in our temple, recently it was jam-packed. Why they are coming to Vṛndāvana? Mostly they are coming from villages. Especially during this time at least twenty thousand, fifty thousand men are coming, daily. Still. We held Hare Kṛṣṇa festivals in Calcutta, Bombay, Madras. As soon as it is advertised, you'll find fifteen thousand, twenty thousand men come. And if you hold for weeks, for weeks they will come. You have seen? They are not like Americans, rich. They are all poverty-stricken. To the general eyes they are poverty-stricken. Kumbhamelā you'll see, Hardwar, in Vṛndāvana. Or even in big, big cities like Calcutta, Bombay, such festivals are held, people will come by thousands. It is training, culture. And this boy is taking three times bath, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. It is training and culture. And if he is kept in this culture, in future he'll be great saintly person. Then he'll do everything automatically. He will deliver others. It is training.

Evening Darsana -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Mrs. Patel: It is convenient for them to.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Not convenient, foolishness. A rabbit, when there is some big animals, he closes his eyes. He thinks, "There is no danger." That does not mean he's out of danger. He'll be eaten up. So simply by concocting that there is no life after death, you'll not be escaped. In Bhagavad-gītā informs, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ. There is no need of studying any literature, Vedic literature. Dehāntara-prāptiḥ, Kṛṣṇa is giving evidence. Dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā (BG 2.13). This dehāntara-prāptiḥ, I was not this body in the beginning, I was a very jubilant child like this. Where is that body? That body is not existing. It is different body, dehāntara-prāptiḥ. So why they do not believe dehāntara-prāptiḥ? I am the same soul who possessed a child's body, young man's body, boy's body. Now I have got the old man's body. So dehāntara is there, and I am still. I remember, I was a child, I was lying down on the lap of my elder sister. I remember still. But where is that body? It is different body. This is dehāntara-prāptiḥ. I am the same man who was lying down on the lap of my elder sister, and now I am differently situated. The body has changed. This is the proof, Kṛṣṇa is giving you this proof. Tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). So if we accept authority of Kṛṣṇa and His statement, so reasonable and so scientific, then our life is successful.

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: Then there is proof: śāstra is there, sādhu is there, ācārya is there, other authorities are there. Just like Arjuna said, that, quoted Vyāsa, Nārada, Asita, Devala, "All of them have accepted You the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and You are explaining Yourself. Therefore I have no doubt." Vyāsadeva is authority, Nārada is authority, and there are many others. Recently, all the ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Caitanya Mahāprabhu... We are following the Caitanya cult, but He's stated yāre dekha tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa. He's accepting. Why does He say "Kṛṣṇa"? Why does He not say others? Āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra ei deśa yāre dekha (CC Madhya 7.128), tāre kaha And Kṛṣṇa also, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7), "There is no more superior person." And Arjuna accepted, "Whatever You are saying, it is all reasonable." Sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye (BG 10.14). "Whatever you have said, I accept in toto." There is no cut short, "I don't like this, I don't accept this." No, everything, sarvam etad.

Morning Walk -- August 12, 1976, Tehran:

Prabhupāda: The scientists also, they are talking, but there is no practical proof. Simply talking.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: That is how we can attract people, through action.

Prabhupāda: Āpani ācari prabhu jīvera śikṣāya. That is the way. (child chanting in background) Just see how he's chanting, this boy, his son, he's chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is not joke. (all chant japa) That building is costly, but we have left that building, we have come here. And this is costlier? Nature's way of... In the room, to make us comfortable you have to run on the fan? Here we are, don't require any fan. So what is the advantage?

Hari-śauri: Well, if it rains, then we'll go back inside.

Prabhupāda: And if your electricity fails, you'll go to hell. (laughter) This is no argument. That is obstinate rascal's argument. That one, they were eating yogurt. Everyone said, "Oh, very first-class, nice yogurt." Everyone was saying. So there was the obstinate rascal, he has to find out some fault. He said, "Yes, it is very nice, but if we keep it three days it will be bad." He's not thinking of the present, but he has to criticize it, that if you keep it three days it will become bad. That is all right, but what you are tasting now, talking of that. When there will be rain, you'll have to go in the room—this is no argument. This is obstinate rascaldom. We're talking of this.

Arrival Conversation -- August 13, 1976, Bombay:

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: Spiritual Sky in Los Angeles. He has come on a business trip. They were trying to negotiate buying incense sticks from Mysore, sandalwood, and Bangalore. So they are... Did you get those color proofs I sent you of Bhāgavata? Did you like? It's coming out quite nicely.

Prabhupāda: Not as good, not as good as foreign.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: It's not as good as foreign? That is... But we are going to be printing the softbound book for seven rupees.

Prabhupāda: All right, we shall talk later on. Now let me...

Hari-śauri: Maybe somebody could take those flowers and put them in vases.

Gopāla Kṛṣṇa: All the pictures have a garland. Distribute it?

Prabhupāda: So you have come, it is good.

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: That Chicago Address was the worst. He is defying, "Why you give credit to God?" This is the... We have seen that Chicago Address. Now they are eliminating. Most blasphemous. One Christian priest, he was surprised, "What kind of nonsense these Indians are..." He asked him, "How you are speaking in this way, 'Why you are giving credit to God?' " He said like that, "You are working, why you are giving credit to God?" This is Vivekananda's realization. And he created God, a illiterate priest, he become God. Because he said, "I am God." That is the proof.

Jayapatākā: Because he said?

Prabhupāda: "I am God. I am the same Rāma, same Kṛṣṇa." Therefore his name is Ramakrishna. He was Gadadhar Chatterji, and he said to his disciple, Vivekananda, first-class rogue, that, "I am the same Rāma, same Kṛṣṇa." So he took it. This is evidence. Because Kṛṣṇa says "I am the Supreme." So he said, "I am the same Rāma, same Kṛṣṇa." This is the evidence. If Kṛṣṇa can say, he can say also. This institution is the most harmful institution for Vedic culture.

Meeting with Endowments Commissioner -- August 24, 1976, Hyderabad:

Prabhupāda: Do you think that realization is good? If anyone realizes that he is God? Do you think he has actually realized anything?

Indian man: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: What is the proof? Everyone can say, "I am God," but where is the proof? He must act like God. If somebody says, "I am the richest man," simply this statement will do, or we must see how he is rich? (pause) Hm. Give him.

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Krishna Modi: Emergency means there is something unnormal.

Prabhupāda: Yes. If it is normal there is no question of emergency. That is the proof. Another thing, personally, from the Vedic point of view, I don't think India is ready to take actually democracy. Mass of people, they do not care for politics. You have better experience. There, in other countries, even a small man, he has got political sense.

Krishna Modi: Ah, but they are educated.

Prabhupāda: But here, mass of people, they do not know what is politics. One gentleman, he was my friend, it was in 1952 or '53, Mr. Datt. He was a statistics man. So he was going in the villages to take some statistics. He said to me: "In the village, they ask me, 'Bābujī, iṁrej kakhan... (in Bengali asking "When will the English return?')." So (Hindi). The mass of people, they're for foreigners' rule: "Come and rule over us." Because the mass of people they have no sense of politics. Anyone may come and let them rule, we don't mind. Whatever little tax you want, you take, that's all right. The mass of people is like that. They are not concerned in politics. Under the circumstances, a democracy is not suitable for India. Long ago that Lord Curzon, he suggested this, that in India monarchy is better. He suggested that some of the royal family members should become King of India. It will be welcome. And our country, all along this monarchy was there. Democracy is idea now, but the monarch up to Parīkṣit Mahārāja, they were ideal, rājarṣi. People have so much faith in the monarch that whatever he does, it is right. Naradeva. Of course, nowadays things have changed.

Letter to Sai Baba -- September 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Where is your incarnation is described? Will you kindly give the reference. Anyone can say like you, that one is incarnation, as it has become a fashion nowadays. But is that claim only is the proof of one's becoming incarnation? Some such unauthorized claim of becoming an incarnation is certainly ridiculous. Such...

Pradyumna: ...unauthorized claim of one's becoming an incarnation...

Prabhupāda: Is certainly ridiculous. Then you have claimed to take form. What is he has written?

Pradyumna: "Then you have claimed to take..."

Prabhupāda: No, no. What he has written.

Pradyumna: "In my present avatāra I have come armed with the fullness of the power of the formless God to save humanity."

Letter to Sai Baba -- September 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. Last what you have written.

Pradyumna: "Similarly, Lord Rāma's incarnation, Lord Buddha's incarnation, Lord Caitanya's incarnationness, we have got full information from the Vedic scriptures. Where is your incarnation described? Will you kindly give the reference. Anyone can say like you, that one is an incarnation, as it has become a fashion nowadays. But is that claim only the proof of one's becoming an incarnation? Such unauthorized claim of one's becoming an incarnation is certainly ridiculous. Then you have claimed to take a form of the formless God. But we see in the Bhagavad-gītā that God is never formless."

Prabhupāda: (dictating:) Only the rascals and less intelligent class of men think that God is formless and when He incarnates, He takes a particular form. In this connection, a verse from Yāmunācārya may be quoted as follows. You have quoted the Bhagavad-gītā? That quote?

Pradyumna: Well, it doesn't mention the Sanskrit here of that Yāmunācārya verse.

Prabhupāda: No, no. "In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said"—what you have written?

Pradyumna: Oh. We can put the Sanskrit, avyaktaṁ vyaktim āpannam.

Prabhupāda: No, what you have written here?

Pradyumna: "Such unauthorized claim of one's becoming... Then you have claimed to take a form of the formless God, but we see in the Bhagavad-gītā..."

Prabhupāda: That you have to quote.

Letter to Sai Baba -- September 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: (dictating:) You are desiring to become God. There cannot be no desire. But you're unceremoniously desiring to become God. Although there is no proof in the śāstras. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is accepted that the living entities are sparks of..., part and parcel of God, Kṛṣṇa.

Pradyumna: "In the Bhagavad-gītā it is accepted that the living entities..."

Prabhupāda: Are part and parcel of God. But part is never equal to the whole. (break)

Pradyumna: "So you can claim as a spark of God, as every living entity can claim but you cannot claim as the..."

Prabhupāda: The Supreme Person with full power. That is misleading. You can show a little magic, as other magicians also can show.

Letter to Sai Baba -- September 13, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: But He never claimed that "I am avatāra." But we understand from the śāstric evidence. He never claimed. Rather when He was addressed as Kṛṣṇa He blocked His ears, "You don't say like that." He never claimed. He fully displayed Himself as a devotee. Not Bhagavān. Therefore Gaurāṅgavāda is illegal. Gaurāṅga-nāgarī. That is illegal. Moha-vāda or something like that.

Pradyumna: Gaurāṅga-nāgarī, mentioning Lord Caitanya in the role of Kṛṣṇa dancing with the...

Prabhupāda: In this way, find out the faulty statement and give him proof. He can claim... Hm.

Pradyumna: Thank you, Śrīla Prabhupāda. (end)

Room Conversation with Life Member, Mr. Malhotra -- December 22, 1976, Poona:

Prabhupāda: What is the proof? Just like this Ramakrishna, he was an illiterate priest, and at the time of his death he said to Vivekananda, that I am Kṛṣṇa, I am Lord Rāma, and he accepted. He accepted. (Hindi conversation) Let him create one motorcar. Why he's asking, "Please sir, give me car." That's all. He is such a great man; bogus. People are foolish persons, they are deviated by these bogus rascals. That is going on. (Hindi conversation) Ṣaḍ-aiśvarya-pūrṇam. (Hindi conversation)

Mr. Malhotra: Then he is servant, always servant?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Nityānām, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaḥ... (Hindi) Jīvera svarūpa haya nitya-kṛṣṇa-dāsa (Cc. Madhya 20.108-109). (Hindi) That is his foolishness. And foolish person will accept. Kṛṣṇa says mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya (BG 7.7). Therefore He shall remain the Supreme always. We have to refer to the Vedic śāstras. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. This is description of Bhagavān. That He has nothing to do, na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate. (Hindi) (Explains in Hindi that Kṛṣṇa does not need or show any magic, when He was just a child He killed Pūtanā. Not that by meditation He became God. Bhagavān is always Bhagavān.) Either he is three months old or three years old or three hundred years old. Na tasya kāryaṁ karaṇaṁ ca vidyate na tat-samaś cābhyadhikaś ca dṛśyate, nobody can be equal or greater than Him.

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Rāmeśvara: We always answer their charge that "You are saying that all the people are being upset by us, but actually the proof is that we are getting so many letters every day, hundreds of letters, and all these letters, no complaints. Simply they want more information. They want to order all our books. So from our mail order we can see that these people are writing to us because they have been sold books on the street."

Prabhupāda: So these letters are important. You can publish these letters in book. Those who are ordering our books, they...

Rāmeśvara: Also, when we tell them, "Our magazine used to sell two hundred thousand copies a month, now it is selling five hundred thousand, seven hundred fifty thousand, some months one million copies. so that means the public is..."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Becoming more interested. So let us go on fighting with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no disappointment. Yudhyasva mām anusmara (BG 8.7). We shall fight and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Then everything is all right. We cannot stop fighting.

Discussion on Deprogrammers -- January 9, 1977, Bombay:

Trivikrama: We can kill our parents even, like Prahlāda.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is actually required. Prahlāda did not protest. It is a great sin, if your father is being killed before you, if you do not protest even, "Why you are killing?" not to give protection. But even if you do not, then you are not worthy son. So in that way Prahlāda Mahārāja was accused that in his presence his father was being killed. He did not protest, neither he... Rather, he was ready with the garland: (laughter) "As soon as my father is killed, immediately garland the Lord." So that is not the fact. And he is... Later on, he requested that "My father was a great offender. So kindly give him protection." So he's not..., that son. He knows... He knew that this, "My father is being killed by the nails of my Lord. It is his great fortune." Why shall he protest? He's seeing that "My father is being released from this material existence." Why shall he protest? And still to confirm it, he requested the Lord that "This, my rascal father made so many offenses..." But for him he did not ask anything, but he's such a good son that for demon father he requested. So how much faithful son he was, this is the proof. Not that he was unfaithful to him. He knew it, that "Let my father's body be separated from his soul by the Lord. That is good for him." And still to confirm it he personally requested that "My father may be excused." "Why your father? Your father's father, his father, everyone, up to fourteen generations."

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa was proved, and still He is proved. Who is reading others' book all over the world? Therefore He is God. Where is that book so respected as Bhagavad-gītā? Who is printing so many books? Not even Bible. They respected Bible. Why the foreigners are reading Bhagavad-gītā? That is the proof that Kṛṣṇa is God. During the Christmas festival we sold our books greatest number in the history. How many copies Bible you have sold? That is the proof. Here is God. Otherwise why Christians should purchase Bhagavad-gītā during Christmas holiday? And because Kṛṣṇa is God, therefore you have come to fight. Who is going to fight with Jehovah? Who is going to fight with Jehovah movement?

Hari-śauri: Well, just like in the Middle East area, if they want to describe God or if they want to glorify God, they refer to Him as the Almighty One. And that word that means "Almighty One" is Allah. So if in India they want to glorify God by calling Him the All-attractive One, and that word is Kṛṣṇa, then what is the wrong?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Hari-śauri: But he was the president of India.

Prabhupāda: President was therefore kicked out. māyā has kicked out on his face. (laughter) Who cares for Radhakrishnan? In India, who cares for Radhakrishnan? They worship Kṛṣṇa. So therefore they have urinated on the face of Radhakrishnan. Say like that, (laughter) that "Indian people have passed urine on his head, and they are worshiping Kṛṣṇa. This is Radhakrishnan." Tell him like that. "Who cares for Radhakrishnan?" Do you mean to say they have stopped worshiping Kṛṣṇa in so many millions of temples? That is the proof: they have passed urine on the face of Radhakrishnan. Is that all right?

Hari-śauri: (laughing) Yes.

Rāmeśvara: And I found an article in the Time magazine about another translator of Bhagavad-gītā, Christopher Isherwood.

Prabhupāda: He is rascal, another rascal.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:
Prabhupāda: "Fools rush in where angels dare not." You are such a fool that you are running in to obstruct Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which is... Even the demigods, they aspire after it. You are such a fool. You are rushing in. So we take pity upon you, and therefore we are trying to expand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. But be sane; don't talk insanity. (break) And here you see big, big scholars that "Yes, here is Indian statement for the whole..." There are many saintly persons. Who cares for your Bible? And Bhagavad-gītā all over the world... Even if you take Dr. Radhakrishnan, elected as authority, he has tried to comment on Bhagavad-gītā, not on your Bible. Has he done? Who cares for your Bible? He may speak favorably or unfavorably, that is Bhagavad-gītā. But he has not spoken a word upon the Bible. Who cares for you? Not only here, all over the world, who is going to take the Bhagavad-gītā, er, Bible? And we are selling millions of copies of Bhagavad-gītā. That is proof Kṛṣṇa is God. We can say that we have got at home. Here is God.
Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the fact.

Rāmeśvara: So they say this is the proof that we have brainwashed them. Because it is natural to have affection for your family.

Prabhupāda: Before that, he was accepting a false father. And now they understood that "He is not my father. He's my enemy." Therefore he's going... According to Bhāgavata it is said, "One should not become father if he cannot save his son from the imminent danger of birth, death, old age and disease." So the so-called father, they are not father. So after enter into Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, one understands that "He's my false father." So if he gives up the relationship, that means he's successful.

Conversation on Train to Allahabad -- January 11, 1977, India:

Prabhupāda: It is not a prison house.

Rāmeśvara: They say, "You cannot deprogram a Christian because Christianity is real. Therefore this is the proof that Hare Kṛṣṇa is false."

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Rāmeśvara: That there is no record of any Christian...

Hari-śauri: We were all Christians, and we changed.

Jagadīśa: There's a record of a Christian deprogrammed, Peter himself. Christ prophesied that "Before the cock crows you'll deny me three times," and he did. He was deprogrammed just by his association.

Rāmeśvara: That was Peter?

Jagadīśa: Yes. (train going again)

Hari-śauri: His own... One of his twelve apostles put him on the cross, Judas Iscariat. He was one of the original twelve. He betrayed Jesus for some money and put him on the cross, killed him. He killed him.

Prabhupāda: That's right. This is the history of your religion. You kill Jesus Christ; you deprive him.

Room Conversation on 1976 Book Scores -- January 16, 1977, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the best answer to this opposition. And when the case is there, put all the books before the judge: "Now you read and give your judgment. Don't... You are learned lordship. Please read these books and give your judgment. We have got already judgment from the scholars." Present like that. "But still, because in your court it is presented, so we pray that you give your judgment after understanding our method of brainwash." That will make him flat.

Rāmeśvara: And we gave this proof, another proof that our movement is transcendental to all material obstacles and impediments, that this year in America there was spiraling inflation and unemployment, and the cost of living was therefore rising like anything, but our books, in defiance of all these material trends, were being printed in larger quantities, but the temples were paying less for the books than ever before. And even though all the major airports were closed for, a minimum, six months or more, the hardbound book distribution—we just looked at the numbers-actually increased by one hundred percent.

Prabhupāda: So it is Kṛṣṇa's mercy. "You can do all kinds of opposition, but we shall go forward. The caravan will pass. You may bark." So take all these things as Kṛṣṇa's mercies and engage more enthusiastically. Why should we be defeated? Yuddhyasva mām anusmara (BG 8.7). Just remember Kṛṣṇa and fight. Bas. Fighting is... This material world is fighting. Manaḥ ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7). The karṣati is struggle, but struggle for Kṛṣṇa. That is perfection. That's all

Room Conversation -- January 19, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: That is the proof we are gaining ground.

Hari-śauri: The two champion big-book distributors are both German boys.

Rāmeśvara: Yes. They have outdistributed everyone, even in America.

Prabhupāda: Oh. Paraṁ vijāyate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. Just see how small animal it is, and how freely it is going. Let them manufacture a small animal like this with chemicals. It has got all the symptoms of animal. It has got the desire. It has thinking, feeling, willing, then eating, sleeping, mating. Everything is there. And as such, the anatomic physiology is there, within such a full stop. Everything is there. If you check them going here, they'll protest. And wherefrom they are coming? Where they are going? Just see how small it is. You cannot see even with naked eyes, so small. But it has all life symptoms. And they say there is no soul.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Just see. Such... They have created this Vivekananda and Cinmayanandas, rascals, so many rascals. They have created such situation that Indian people are mostly in darkness, although God appears here in India. They have executed such thankless task, this Vivekananda, Cinmayananda and so many Māyāvādīs. "Ramakrishna is Bhagavān." And what is his certificate that he is Bhagavān? "He said." No. He said "I am the same Rāma. I am the same Kṛṣṇa." So he is taking shelter of Kṛṣṇa to prove his Godhead. So why not go to original Godhead? Why shall I take the imitation? He is maintaining his position that "I am the same Kṛṣṇa." "So then same Kṛṣṇa is authority. So why shall I not go to same Kṛṣṇa? Why shall I go to you? Your authority is also Kṛṣṇa. So why shall I give up original Kṛṣṇa and take to an imitation Kṛṣṇa? You may be the same, but I am not a very intelligent man. Why shall I go to the imitation? I shall go to the original." Hm? Is it not? "I am not so expert to understand whether you are actual or not. You are saying. There is no proof in the śāstra. So let me go to the original." Is that all right, argument? "Why shall I take you? You are supporting, trying to maintain yourself." Everyone says that "I am Kṛṣṇa. I am God." So India, we have to fight little. There are so many atheists. But mass of people, they are all right.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Rāmeśvara: But anyway, these surveys show that religious sentiment in America is increasing.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is proof. You are the proof. There is no doubt. They are intelligent. Intelligent and there is no poverty. In other countries, on account of poverty, they are thinking, "First of all we must be materially prosperous. Then we shall think all this nonsense God." This is then... This propaganda is going on, "What you'll, can do by God. First of all we must have sufficient to eat, sufficient to drink." And this is their philosophy. How they can...? There is a Sanskrit verse that daridra-doṣo guṇa-rāśi-nāśaḥ: "If somebody is poverty-stricken, all other qualities become useless." And nowadays the education is for money. One has passed D.H.C., Ph.D., but if he does not get an employment, then what is the value? He's begging from here: "Sir, will you give me some service?" That's all.

Room Conversation -- January 21, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: And the result was that Christ was killed first. Who advised not to kill, they were so civilized that "Kill him first." So this is the proof. Why he said, "Thou shall not kill"? That means the society was so ravaged that they're killing one another.

Rāmeśvara: It was their sport to see men fight each other until one of them was killed. Their wrestling was based on fighting until someone was killed.

Gargamuni: They would take Christians and put them in the arena.

Rāmeśvara: That was their sport, entertainment, just like wrestling in India, but in the Middle East in Roman times the wrestling was fought until somebody had to be killed. That was their entertainment. They wanted to see them die. Even today, actually, all the entertainment in America and the Western world is based on violence. They have bull fighting. They want to see the bull tortured and killed. And they have chicken fighting and they have...

Prabhupāda: Dog fighting.

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: How they would reveal? They are thieves and rogues. Their idea is: three thousand years ago there was no civilization. This is their poor idea.

Bhāgavata: (break) I was speaking with him. He's an Indian here in Bhuvaneśvara. He said Vyāsa could not have written the Vedas five thousand years ago because writing did not start till 2,500 years ago. I said, "What is your proof?" He said, "Because we can see in the caves the markings, and these things did not come till 2,500 years ago." I said, "Do you think Vyāsa was a cave man, that he was banging on the walls with hammers?" So I said, "He is a great professor." He said, "No, no. Actually Vyāsa is not even a person. He's only a school." So I said, "Well, you do not understand." These are very atheistic type of people. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...taking Bhagavad-gītā as some imaginary writing, a school, thinking that.

Satsvarūpa: "A work of many hands," they say.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: "Not one author."

Prabhupāda: They do not take it that Kṛṣṇa is God and He's speaking. They do not believe. "God is imperson."

Morning Walk -- January 24, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Bhāgavata: His only proof was carbon dating, and that carbon dating has already been proven wrong so many times.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Bhāgavata: Can prajāpatis give birth to different species of animal life from their own bodies?

Prabhupāda: Hm. Yes.

Satsvarūpa: Prajāpatis, humans, they give birth to animals in the beginning.

Prabhupāda: Crocodile. (break) ...topless, is that freedom for the woman? The shop is open from ten to four a.m. I have seen the signboard in Texas. Is that freedom for the woman? They have no means of livelihood, and they come.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Satsvarūpa: But they can say, "Neither is it a proof that it does exist."

Prabhupāda: How you can prove? You can hear only. There are many things which is beyond your sense perception. The example which I often give, that "Who is your father?" What is proof? The proof is the hearing from mother. That's all. You cannot have any other proof.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: We have got proof. Kṛṣṇa says. We believe in Kṛṣṇa. You believe in some rascal; we believe in Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference. Kṛṣṇa says, tyaktvā dehaṁ punar janma naiti mām eti (BG 4.9). So we believe that. That's all. We have got evidence. You have no evidence. You are simply suggesting in future you'll do. But we have got evidence.

Gargamuni: Sometimes they ask, "Show us somebody who's come."

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Gargamuni: "Show us someone who has come from there."

Prabhupāda: Many.

Gargamuni: "But we don't find any."

Prabhupāda: Many. It is in the śāstra. "He was formerly like this, and now he has become this." There are many.

Evening Conversation -- January 25, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: But śāstra is the proof. Our proof is śāstra. Your proof is your śāstra. Did you go to the moon planet or you believe the newspapers? Have you gone?

Gargamuni: No.

Prabhupāda: Then if you can believe newspaper, why shall not believe in the Veda, Vedānta?

Gargamuni: No, but one man has come.

Prabhupāda: So one man... You have not done. You have no experience. So one man you believe authority.

Gurukṛpā: But we saw the television. They showed on the television.

Prabhupāda: No. Television could not show that. You can arrange in the laboratory such television, cheat others. And you have done it. But anyway, television or man or newspaper—you believe on others. You have not personally gone. So you believe some authority. We believe some authority. What is the difference. You take newspaper as authority. We take Vedic literature as authority. Where is the difference? You have personally not gone. How do you believe? The difference is that you believe somebody, we believe somebody. I asked this question to Professor Kotovsky, that "You believe Lenin; we believe Kṛṣṇa. Then where is the difference between philosophy?" Now it is to be judged whether Lenin is all right or Kṛṣṇa is all right. That is another thing. But the principle is there. "You believe in Lenin; we believe in Kṛṣṇa. The process is the same.

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1977, Puri:

Prabhupāda: What is this scientist? The scientists are rascals. These are the proofs. They are trying to go to the moon planet, but they do not know what is this. So many stars are hanging on my head. What are they? They cannot give any perfect information. They do not know. Two things they do not know. What is the meaning of science, real two things. One thing, how life come into existence, and how this planetary system is existing. They do not know. What is value of their science? There are so many things they do not know.

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- January 30, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: So the scientists could not say anything.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Well, we said, "We are working on it." We were not giving a definite..., 'cause we need some proof to satisfy them. So we are...

Prabhupāda: Anyway, you are meeting big, big scientists.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But we are saying that our senses are very incomplete, very limited. So how can we...

Prabhupāda: That is our basic principle of knowledge, that every one of us is defective. So you cannot give us complete knowledge. It is not possible. We must receive knowledge from the perfect without defects.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Satsvarūpa: He's saying that they say our position is we can't prove. We can't prove our...

Prabhupāda: No, we can prove. Just that... Our argument is that this is beyond our experimental. Therefore you have to hear from the authority. That is our proof. Just like you cannot make an experiment who is your father, but you have to hear from your mother. That is the only way. There is no second alternative.

Satsvarūpa: Śabda-pramāṇa.

Prabhupāda: Śabda-pramāṇa. Yes.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: There is another very strange statement in this regard saying that though we cannot prove something by experiment, but sometimes it is convenient to assume that way.

Prabhupāda: No, that is foolishness. How you assume?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is logical positivism, saying that... How, there's a house. Let's say there is a temple there, but since I don't see the temple there, but I don't know that the temple is existing or not, but it is convenient to assume that there is a temple.

Prabhupāda: No, no. When there is a possibility of getting proof, why shall I assume?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Because they say they cannot see.

Prabhupāda: Now, just the same example: You cannot see. You cannot see your father because the father was before your birth. Only mother can see. How you can refute this argument? Therefore she is the only proof.

Morning Walk -- February 1, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: It is quite logical that without father, nobody is born. So I do not know who is my father, but the mother is the evidence. That's all. You cannot make this theory that "I was born without father." That is not possible. That is not the laws of nature. But there must be father. You can say, "I have not him." And that is not proof that there is no father. One who has seen, go. Tattva-darśinaḥ. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā says,

tad viddhi praṇipātena
paripraśnena sevayā
upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ
jñāninas tattva-darśinaḥ
(BG 4.34)

Go to mother who has seen your father. That is only proof. Tattva-darśinaḥ. She has seen your father. So you submit, praṇipātena, to mother. "Mother, tell me who is my father." And she'll say, "Yes, he is." Tattva... She has seen. Tattva-darśinaḥ. It is not that mother is blindly indicating somebody as father. She has seen, and you have to learn from your mother by submission. That's all. There is no other way.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That means you are not intelligent. That is the proof. "Beyond your intelligence"—that means your intelligence is not yet perfect. You're lacking in brain. (aside:) I see so many workers simply loitering. They are doing nothing. What can be done? So many. Simply they are taking money. Doing nothing. I see. There is nobody to see. They take advantage. Seventy-five percent of the workers, they are doing nothing. But the Gītā explains that within this body there is something. Not body itself is moving, but dehinaḥ asmin dehe. Within this body there is the real power, dehī, who has got this body. That is there. And because he is there, the body is changing. They cannot understand. No brain, exactly like the dogs and cats. The dog cannot understand that "Within my body, I am." They cannot. Therefore you are no better than dogs. And actual fact is you are not this body. You are within this body. It is a dress. In so many ways Bhagavad-gītā teaches, but you have no brain. Then where is brainwashing? You have no brain to understand your real position.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Just because we cannot make the mind doesn't mean that the mind is not material. I may not make it, but still we say it's...

Prabhupāda: No, you say material; we say... We have full knowledge. We say material, but subtle material. But you have no knowledge; therefore you have no brain.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "What proof is there?" they may argue.

Prabhupāda: This is the proof. Now, if the real active principle has left, the brain has left, the mind has left—it is only a lump. You cannot understand. If you understand it, then replace it. If you cannot, then you have no brain. You have to prove that, that "You have no brain at all. Where is the question of brainwashing?"

Hari-śauri: But if we operate on a person's brain, actual brain substance, it affects his personality. So therefore the personality in the brain is the same.

Prabhupāda: Whatever you know, you give this man brain, mind, and again let him get up and work. I want this.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Brain means intelligent. Brain does not mean dull-headed. This man has brain, then he's intelligent. Proof is he has got intelligence.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: By brain, you mean intelligence.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ādi-keśava: Otherwise you could say the dog has intelligence.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Ādi-keśava: The dog has a brain.

Prabhupāda: The dog has also brain: "Where there is food? Where there is sex?" He has got brain. Not that brain. That brain, everyone has got. Even a small fly, it has got. So think over like that and place very intelligently in the court. The... Prove that "You have no brain at all. This movement is giving, brain-giving. Not brainwashing." You have to prove. Not brainwashing but brain-giving.

Room Conversation -- February 17, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: That is another thing, rascal. A dog will not hear, that does not mean he has brain or he has intelligence.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's the proof he's a dog. (laughs)

Prabhupāda: That he's a dog. We are not going to give any credit to the dogs and cats. So you have to fight like this. Think over. There are different brain. Just like in Chicago I said...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Woman's brain.

Prabhupāda: Woman's brain and man's brain.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Half the size.

Prabhupāda: That is the... That difference is intelligence.

Room Conversation -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Brahmānanda: Burden of proof.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is your duty, not us. You have to prove it. (break) And now don't go to the court with any other dress. Preach like this. Preach there with this dress. Have they any objection with this dress?

Hari-śauri: In this dress.

Ādi-keśava: I agree. I think it is very good that they see us dressed like this in court.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we should...

Ādi-keśava: They will understand what we are.

Prabhupāda: We shall...

Hari-śauri: We have to represent our religion properly.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation about BTG the Moon -- February 18, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: So thousands of men reading our Bhāgavata. No, many.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: If numbers is proof, we have more.

Prabhupāda: This is no argument.

Hari-śauri: But they'll argue that "We're building the rocket ships, and we're sending... We watch them go off..."

Prabhupāda: What you have done? You could not go and live there. You say the atmosphere is different. We deny this. Atmosphere cannot be different. It is within this material world. We can see. Why atmosphere should be different? If the atmosphere is different, how you can see a solid, very bright thing? I can see. Why there is a bright thing? Why it should be different?

Hari-śauri: Well, it's just got no atmosphere, that's all.

Prabhupāda: That is your statement. I don't believe it. I don't accept your statement. I use my common sense. Why the atmosphere? I can see the bright thing, light. If I see this light, I can see that light.

Room Conversation -- February 19, 1977, Mayapura:

Prabhupāda: Huh? No, this was very done, that hiding in the garage, and as soon as, "Oh," beat. Give them. "Eh!"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And he could understand. There was no proof, but he could understand very well why he was beaten.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Hari-śauri: It's just like when they get taken before Yamarāja at the end of their lives, it says in the Bhāgavatam, they understand all their past sinful activities. Now they're getting punished for it.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is allowed. That is within Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: They are doing that, because the policemen and others are beating our men in the airports sometimes. We are getting hit and beaten. Tripurāri sometimes was punched in the face. Many times it has happened to him. He has been beaten for distributing.

Prabhupāda: We can also do that.

Room Conversation with Scientists, Svarupa Damodara, and Dr. Sharma -- March 31, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Russia is also purchasing our books. If the scientists do not believe in God, what is the reason?

Dr. Sharma: They just want a valid proof.

Prabhupāda: Direct proof. The other day somebody asked me... Perhaps you were present? No. Logically. The logical proof, common sense, anyone who has got common sense, the logical proof is there. Just like everything is growing from the earth. The earth is giving birth. Earth, water, air, fire. Bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). Take, for example, water. You dig a pond, and after a few months there will be fishes. So wherefrom the fishes came? If you don't touch even, the fishes will come, and they will grow. So wherefrom the fish came? What is the answer?

Mādhava: The scientists' answer? Well, immediately they would not say evolution, because it takes many billions of years to say evolution.

Prabhupāda: Evolution..., apart from evolution, when I dig a pond, water comes out. You don't touch, after few days, after few months, there will be fishes.

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: He can read the proof.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Proofing. Simply they have to find a good press who can do the work.

Prabhupāda: Press, Usha Press is nice.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Can they do Bengali work?

Prabhupāda: Any work he'll do.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Offset printing.

Prabhupāda: Hm.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Their letter said they don't have here Bengali type.

Prabhupāda: Type printing is now abolished.

Morning Conversation -- April 11, 1977, Bombay:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: That's nice. And that boy... What is that boy's name in Māyāpur, the one who was in England? He can read the proof.

Prabhupāda: Subhaga.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Subhaga.

Prabhupāda: You can reach by mail.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Now with these books coming out, I think it is only a matter of time until we get many, many people joining us.

Prabhupāda: And respectable position. The more we publish books, we become respected.

Room Conversation with Ram Jethmalani (Parliament Member) -- April 16, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (laughs) No, it is not blaming, it is fact. It is the real understanding. Without evidence, without proof, how law can be established? That's a good method. So he is speaking like lawyer, that "You want evidence, you want witness: see here." Tāra sākṣī jagāi mādhāi. So that is five hundred years ago. Now in our Hare Kṛṣṇa movement you see practically. Drunkards, illicit sex-hunters, and so on, so on, they have become saintly persons. This is the effect of it. So... And Kṛṣṇa also says, māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ (BG 9.32). It doesn't matter. Pāpa-yoni. According to our Vedic system, low-class, those who are born in low-grade family, they are called pāpa-yoni. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, lower than that—śūdrādhaḥ. Kirāta-hūṇāndhra-pulinda-pulkaśā ābhīra-śumbhā yavanāḥ khasādayaḥ (SB 2.4.18). They are called pāpa-yoni, untouchables. Of course, nowadays these things cannot go on. But these are there. So Kṛṣṇa says, ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ. Anyone born in anywhere, te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. Mām eva vyapāśritya. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice, everyone can be elevated. So what is this harijana? We can do.

Conversation with Yadubara (after seeing film) -- April 17, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Details, you cannot show it. It is so fine. Just like here is the sky, but you cannot see it. The mind is finer than the sky. The air is sky. (claps) That is sky. Where is the proof? (claps) That you cannot see. Śabda, sound. Sound is the sign of presence of sky. But you cannot see it. But it is there. (claps) This is the proof.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It can be suggested only.

Prabhupāda: That's all. Therefore śruti, which is beyond the sense perception, you have to hear it from authorities. That is knowledge. Who has seen it? These rascals... Who has seen it? So grossly educated they are. "Everything can be seen." Why everything? The same example we give. You have not seen your father. You have to hear, "Here is your father." That's all. That is the proof.

Second Meeting with Mr. Dwivedi -- April 24, 1977, Bombay:
Prabhupāda: A politician cannot understand. His motive is different. He cannot understand. Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī... Bhakta... How to become bhakta? Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). Kṛṣṇa says, "By bhakti one can understand." He never said, "By jñāna, karma, yoga..." No. Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gata... (BG 6.47). Eh? What is that? Antar-ātmanā, śraddhāvān bhajate yo māṁ sa me yuktatamo... So if you want to organize on that line, then it will be successful. Otherwise it is waste of time. That is real cooperation, that we must accept Bhagavad-gītā as it is and preach as it is. Then people will be happy. Otherwise waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam (SB 1.2.8).
vāsudeve bhagavati
bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ
janayaty āśu vairāgyaṁ
jñānaṁ ca yad ahaitukam
(SB 1.2.7)

Now, that is wanted. (Hindi) Those who lead the sevā-saṅga, they must learn how to do benefit to the people. They must practically assimilate, apply in their practical life, and teach others. Then it will be successful. There is no doubt. And the proof is here. In our foreign countries, they are foreigners. They are practicing different religious systems.

Morning Conversation -- April 29, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, I don't...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yeah, but it's confirmed, anyway. Yeah, that's what that Rajneesh says. They asked him, "Why are you with so many women?" He said, "This is the proof, that I am able to be with all these women but not be disturbed." But that doesn't really answer why he's with them. Our point is: "Why are you with them? Never mind whether you're disturbed or... Why are you with them? What benefit are you getting? They are not God. So why are you spending so much time with them?"

Prabhupāda: That is their way of sādhana.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everyone admits that this is luxurious, fifth floor of...

Prabhupāda: It is luxurious. (break) ...the āṭā dough. So after it is cooked... They have got ghee. That ball soaked in ghee and the ḍāl, it is so nice when taken. That is called baṭī. Very quickly made. And after eating, with that ash the two or three utensils, mean the loṭā and the plate, they'll cleanse it very nice and walk away. And that food is sufficient for twenty-four hours. Within twenty-four hours he will not be hungry and feel very strong. The two things. And you can cook anywhere without any difficulty. In India, especially in village, you can get so many dried cow dung. So fuel is ready. The āṭā is packed up. And ghee in a pot. That's all. How simple life. Simply they'll sit down where there is water, and they'll take water. Then everything is arranged. No hotel. Or even there is no āṭā, they keep their own ghee, homemade, pure. Āṭā can be purchased anywhere in the village. There is no need of carrying āṭā. So this preparation for tourists... Tourists, Indian tourists, means going to some holy place. They have no other sightseeing, no program. All villagers, they are still... The pilgrimage in holy places, now no educated man goes. Very rarely.

Evening Darsana -- May 11, 1977, Hrishikesh:
Prabhupāda: You become a devotee. You worship Him and offer your obeisances." It doesn't require that you become very learned scholar. Anyone can do. A child can do. That's it. We are teaching. Where is the difficulty? Hm? Is there any difficulty? Why don't you do that? Why you are making so big, big program without any effect? Take the simple thing, program, and preach everywhere. That is being done. We are preaching this philosophy all over the world, and they are accepting. You know that. In Europe, America, Australia, in everywhere, in all parts of the world they are preaching. Even the Africans, they are chanting name. So if I have manufactured some theory and with a limited circle I am satisfied, that is good? Or Kṛṣṇa's program, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's program, it is being accepted all over the world—that is good or this is good? Which one is good? So everyone is manufacturing some concoction, and he's satisfied with few followers. But we have got Kṛṣṇa's program, and it is being followed all over the world. So which one is good, with some limited circle or all over the world? That is the proof that we have enough (indistinct). (remainder of recording too faint to transcribe) (end)
Morning Talk -- June 19, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is rascal, mūḍha. That is the proof they are rascals. They cannot do something. Still, they are promising, "Yes, yes." This is rascal.

Śatadhanya: They do not accept that beyond death there is life.

Prabhupāda: Why not? Why not? If your childhood takes boyhood, why not next?

Śatadhanya: It's logical.

Prabhupāda: You see everything. That means the body is finished. The body is finished. Childhood body is finished. Why do you say "He is my son"? Although this previous body is finished, he has got another body. You are confident. Otherwise how you say "Here is my son"? Body has changed, but your son is there. And your friends say, "Oh, he is your son? Oh, I saw him, little boy." And he could not identify. The father knows that he is the same. That is the difference. The other man, he could not believe that child has become so grown up, young man. Father knows it. "No, he's the same child." That is the difference. Unless one understands this very first instruction, eternity of life, so-called scientists, philosophers—all nonsense. All rascals.

Bhu-mandala Discussion -- July 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Where is the proof that you produce life from chemicals? We say it cannot be, and they say, "Yes, it is..."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Everything in life comes from some other life.

Prabhupāda: We say that "You have never gone to moon." They will say, "Yes, we have gone." Now they have mentioned, "It is hoax." So how we can believe them? What is the value of their statement? And they promise future, "Yes, we are trying."

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Post-dated check.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversations Bangladesh Preaching/Prabhavisnu Articles by Hamsaduta -- August 11, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: He can be allowed to do so because he is not civilized. But you are civilized, and you are committing great sinful activities by maintaining slaughterhouse. You are such a rascal. And because you are godless, you do not know that you will suffer for these sinful activities. That is the proof of existence of soul.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says that "This has happened by man's technology and not by the help of any God or knowledge obtained from any scripture. Advancement in medical science and social welfare services are helping more and more misfits..."

Prabhupāda: What social welfare?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "...to survive to procreate more and more misfits as future citizens."

Prabhupāda: No, what social welfare you have done? You have opened so many hospitals, but does it mean you can give life?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, this is a real... Here's what he says. He says, "Advancement in medical science and social welfare..."

Prabhupāda: What is the advancement?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He's going to explain it. "...and social welfare services are helping more and more misfits to survive to procreate more and more misfits as future citizens. While the short-term goal is achieved, the long-term goal is jeopardized. Future governments are not going to allow all the misfits to procreate misfit children on the ground that life originates from the Supreme Soul. It is the unique ability of man to engage in creative thinking that has made him succeed in his fight against the laws of nature."

Prabhupāda: What you have gained? Your father died. Your mother died. You are a great scientist. Why you cannot save them? What is the value of your education? Simply empty voice. You'll also die.

Room Conversation With Madhudvisa and others -- August 17, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Because they... Nowadays people say "We don't want any sentiment, religious. We want science." Rascal, where is your science?

Balavanta: They have only blind faith. "Big bang," all these things. There's no evidence, no proof, simply blind faith. And but for you, no one is challenging. They would simply go unchallenged.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It said in the article that in Ceylon, this man Kovoor has been challenging and being victorious for decades, challenging everyone, "There is no God. There is no soul." But now it said for the first time someone has turned the tables on him and challenged him for the first time. He never expected such a thing.

Prabhupāda: And public applauded.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: It says here the challengers want some solid proof that life comes from matter. They're not willing to be duped simply by this man's statement. They want to see some real examples. "At a three-day international conference on 'Life Comes from Life' at Vṛndāvana last week at the Bhaktivedanta Institute, it was stressed..." Śrīla Prabhupāda, do you want it Bhaktivedanta Institute or Bhaktivedanta Swami?

Prabhupāda: Oh, that's all right.

Room Conversation -- October 27, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Bhaktivedanta Institute is doing something scientifically to understand God consciousness. That is proof. And it is well advertised. And we shall go on proceeding like that more and more. So many scientists, foreign and local, they participated, discussed. It is not ordinary thing. Hm?

Guest (2): Jaya.

Prabhupāda: The importance of Bhaktivedanta Institute is there, not that theory molecule. Come on. We are challenging. Discuss like scientist, not like sentimentalists.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda? It seems like we should... Next time we have a conference here, it should be done in the proper hall.

Prabhupāda: Yes, we have got enough place.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Some people were thinking that Vṛndāvana is not a good place for building that hall, but...

Prabhupāda: No, there is no immediate necessity. We have got already nice building.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is the proof, that it was not in order this year.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: What was proof, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: That ratha-cakra broken.

Gaura-govinda: Yes.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Does Lord Jagannātha reside there any more?

Prabhupāda: No, He resides everywhere. Jagannātha says, yatra tiṣṭhati mad-bhaktas tatra tiṣṭhāmi nārada. Things are deteriorating. That I am lamenting. There is no... For thousands of years sanctity—they are killing.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is there anything we can do about it?

Prabhupāda: Unless the administration comes to us.

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1977, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: "Without your blessings, how can I get compassion?"

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: And without your blessings, how could we distribute so many? We directly see the proof of that verse, that the more the Pañca-tattva saw that these fruits of love of God were distributed, the more they relished. We find in distributing your books that the more we distribute your books, the more blissful we feel. This book distribution is actually a part of our daily lives, just like... It is one of the regulative principles practically. Chant sixteen rounds, follow the four regulative principles, and distribute Prabhupāda's books. Everyone sometime in the day does some book distribution or helps in some way the book distribution. (break) ...distribution has begun, the devotees enjoy it so much that they even like to do book distribution more than the life membership. The ecstasy of approaching people, person by person, simply on the friendship of your books is the highest of all pleasures. (break)

Prabhupāda: So far I am thinking, I'm not improving in strength. And how can I improve by drinking little barley and milk and little fruit juice? I have no appetite for anything else. In case I... Most probably, I am diminishing my strength.

Page Title:Proof (Conv. 1976 - 1977)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, Mayapur
Created:23 of May, 2011
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=124, Let=0
No. of Quotes:124