Primeval (Lect., Conv. & Letters)

Expressions researched:
"primeval"

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query: "primeval" not "primeval lord"

Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures

Lecture on BG 2.19 -- London, August 25, 1973:

Pradyumna: "He who thinks that the living entity is the slayer or that he is slain does not understand. One who is in knowledge knows that the self slays not nor is slain."

Prabhupāda:

ya enaṁ vetti hantāraṁ

yaś cainaṁ manyate hatam

ubhau tau na vijānīto

nāyaṁ hanti na hanyate

(BG 2.19)

na jāyate mriyate vā kadācin

nāyaṁ bhūtvā bhavitā vā na bhūyaḥ

ajo nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ purāṇo

na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre

(BG 2.20)

"For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain."

So, in different ways, Kṛṣṇa is trying to convince us how the soul is immortal. Different ways. Ya enaṁ vetti hantāram (BG 2.19). When there is fight, so if one is killed or... So Kṛṣṇa says that if one thinks that "This man has killed this man," so, or "This man can kill this man," this kind of knowledge is not perfect. Nobody kills nobody. Then the butchers, they may say that "Then why do you complain that we are killing?" They're killing the body, but you cannot kill when there is injunction "Thou shall not kill." That means you cannot kill the body even without sanction. You cannot kill. Although the soul is not killed, the body is killed, still you cannot kill the body without sanction. That is sinful. For example, that a man is living in some apartment. So some way or other you drive him away from that, illegally, you drive him away. So the man will go out and will take shelter somewhere. That's a fact. But because you have driven him away from his bona fide position, you are criminal. You cannot say, "Although I have driven away, he'll get some place." No. That's all right, but you have no power to drive him away. He was in his legal position to live in that apartment, and because you have forcibly driven him away you are criminal, you should be punished.

Lecture on BG 2.20-25 -- Seattle, October 14, 1968:

Viṣṇujana: "For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not... (BG 2.20)"

Prabhupāda: These are the statements of Kṛṣṇa. Now the constitution of the soul... So far materialists are concerned, they cannot even find out where is the soul. Therefore there are so many theories. Actually, they cannot find out where the soul is situated because material senses cannot approach. The measurement of the soul is stated in the Vedic literature as one ten-thousandth part of the tip of the hair. So there is no possibility of understanding what is soul by material scientists. The only process is to take it from higher authorities like Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa here gives definition of the soul. So we have to accept it. And not blindly accept it, but try to understand as far as possible with your arguments and reason, but this is the actual fact. What is that statement? The soul, definition of soul, Kṛṣṇa is giving?

Viṣṇujana: "Only the material body of the indestructible, immeasurable and eternal living entity is subject to destruction (BG 2.18). He who thinks that the living entity is the slayer or that the entity is slain does not understand. One who is in knowledge knows that the self slays not nor is slain (BG 2.19)."

Prabhupāda: Then next?

Viṣṇujana: 20: "For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain (BG 2.20)."

Prabhupāda: Yes. Because eternal, therefore how it can be slain? So soul is never slain. The body is slain. Then?

Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures

Lecture on SB 1.1.1 -- London, August 7, 1971:

Pradyumna: Translation: "I offer my obeisances unto Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, son of Vasudeva, who is the supreme all-pervading Personality of Godhead. I meditate upon Him, the transcendent reality, who is the primeval cause of all causes, from whom all manifested universes arise, in whom they dwell, and by whom they are destroyed. I meditate upon that eternally effulgent Lord who is directly and indirectly conscious of all manifestations and yet is beyond them. It is He only who first imparted Vedic knowledge unto the heart of Brahmā, the first created being. Through Him this world, like a mirage, appears real even to great sages and demigods. Because of Him, the material universes, created by the three modes of nature, appear to be factual, although they are unreal. I meditate therefore upon Him, the Absolute Truth, who is eternally existent in His transcendental abode, and who is forever free of illusion." (SB 1.1.1)

Prabhupāda: Vyāsadeva is offering his obeisances unto the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa. Oṁ namo bhagavate vāsudevāya. Bhagavate, "unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is known as Vāsudeva." Vāsudeva means the son of Vasudeva. Even the leader of the impersonalists, namely Śaṅkarācārya, he has accepted that the Supreme Personality of Godhead appeared as the son of Vasudeva and Devakī. People may not misunderstand. Just like we give identification by giving the name of father, mother, similarly, Kṛṣṇa's identification is that He is son of Vasudeva or son of Nanda Mahārāja, friend of Śrīdāmā, Sudāmā, lover of Rādhārāṇī. In so many ways He has got hundreds of thousands of names. So people who protest that God cannot have any name... They say that God cannot have any name. Yes, we agree with them. God cannot have any name. Or God has so many names, how we'll address Him? The śāstra says that He has got many names, but the chief name is Kṛṣṇa. In the Atharva Veda it is said. Kṛṣṇa is the son of Devakī, Vasudeva. Those who are very much strict to understand everything on the evidence of Veda, Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī has given them quotation from Vedas, that "In the Vedas, Kṛṣṇa's name is there, His father's name is there." Like that.

Philosophy Discussions

Philosophy Discussion on Carl Gustav Jung:

Devotee (3): You said that all things are created out of the water of origination. There's an ocean, the Kāraṇodaka, by which all these worlds are generated, (indistinct) the primeval ocean, from which (indistinct) the ocean...

Prabhupāda: Wherefrom the ocean has been generated? Everything is generated from the breathing of Lord Viṣṇu. Viṣṇu is lying in that ocean, that's all. So I'm lying on this bed, and something is coming out of my breathing, that does not mean it is coming from the bed. That's all.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation With David Lawrence -- July 12, 1973, London:

Pradyumna: "Nor having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain."

Prabhupāda: This thing first of all must be understood, immortality of the soul, transmigration of the soul. Then other things will be easier. And because this is eternal, therefore there is another spiritual world which is also the same nature, eternal. That is explained. What is that verse? Find out. Paras tasmāt tu bhāvo 'nyo...sarveṣu naśyatsu na vinaśyati (BG 8.20). The spiritual world existing eternally. This material world being annihilated, dissolved, that is not dissolved. Exactly like this body being annihilated, the soul is not annihilated. Similarly, the material world, it is bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate (BG 8.19). It takes place at a certain date, and it is annihilated at a certain... Exactly like this body. Anything material. It has got a date of creation, and it has got a date of annihilation. But as the spirit soul is not annihilated even after the annihilation of the body, similarly there is another spiritual world which is never annihilated even after annihilation of this material world. Hm. What is that?

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

Nitāi:

na jāyate mriyate va kadācin

nāyaṁ bhūtvā bhavitā vā na bhūyaḥ

ajo nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ purāṇo

na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre

(BG 2.20)

"For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain."

Prabhupāda: That is it. That is the position of the soul. So when there is mortality, that is not perfect stage. And when he attains the stage of again immortality... Because actually he is immortal.

O'Grady: Actuality is immortal.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

O'Grady: Hm, not bad. Because actuality has to do with effect.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The actuality is immortal. He never takes birth...

Room Conversation with Russian Orthodox Church Representative -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: "Translation: For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain." (French)

Prabhupāda: Next verse.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa:

vedāvināśinaṁ nityaṁ

ya enam ajam avyayam

kathaṁ sa puruṣaḥ pārtha

kaṁ ghātayati hanti kam

"O Pārtha, how can a person who knows that the soul is indestructible, unborn, eternal and immutable, kill anyone or cause anyone to kill?" (French)

Church Representative: I have nothing to say against. But I cannot say that it is a definition. Do you say in English, definition?

Prabhupāda: Yes, definition.

Church Representative: I cannot say that it is a definition. It is a sort of creed, a profession of faith.

Prabhupāda: No, it is characteristic. Definition means you mention the characteristic. That is definition. Definition, you mention the characteristic. So that can be mentioned directly, or if it is not perceivable, then you can define in opposite way. Just like we have got experience: everything in the material world, it is beginning. There is a beginning. Anything of this—your body, my body, everything—it has got a beginning, and it has got an end. So it is stated, na jāyate na mriyate vā: "It has no beginning, no end." And nityaḥ, eternal, śāśvataḥ, very old, purāṇaḥ. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). "It is not destroyed, annihilated, after the destruction of the body." So if we accept this definition, then we can understand the soul is eternal. Our characteristic, if we accept these characteristics, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20), after the destruction of body the soul is never destroyed, then you can understand the soul is eternal. And it is clearly stated, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). "After the destruction of the body, it is not destroyed." So, it means it takes another body. (French)

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Nitāi: O.K. "I offer my obeisances unto Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the son of Vāsudeva, who is the Supreme, All-pervading Personality of Godhead. I meditate upon Him, the transcendent reality, who is the primeval cause of all causes, from whom all manifested universes arise, in whom they dwell, and by whom they are destroyed. I meditate upon that eternally effulgent Lord who is directly and indirectly conscious of all manifestations and yet is beyond them. It is He only who first imparted the Vedic knowledge into the heart of Brahmā."

Prabhupāda: And this is Vedic knowledge.

Nitāi: "Who is the first created living being."

Prabhupāda: You read another verse, aham ādir hi devānāṁ maharṣīṇāṁ ca (Bg 10.2). Aham ādir hi devānām. (loud noise in background) Never mind, never mind. Don't bother. That's all right.

Nitāi: Oh, from the Bhagavad-gītā? Aham...?

Prabhupāda: Aham ādir hi devānām. In the Bible it is said, "There was word." That is Vedic knowledge.

Nitāi: Aham ādir hi devānāṁ maharṣīṇāṁ ca sarvaśaḥ: "Neither the hosts of demigods nor the sages know My origin for in every respect, I am the source of the demigods and the sages."

Yogeśvara: You said also in the Bible it is said, "There is the word."

Prabhupāda: That word, sound, is the Vedas. So before creation, Vedas were there. So you cannot find out the history of Vedas. You find out the history where the creation began. Then, before that, Vedas were there. (French)

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Svarupa Damodara -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Satsvarūpa: "For the soul there is never birth nor death, nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain."

Prabhupāda: That's all. So where is the question of creation? But because we have got these material eyes, we want to see everything through this material manifestation. We are seeing that he is dead, he is alive, he is born, he is this, that...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But that is the defect of the scientists. They only see the body.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is their defect. Therefore asses, go-kharaḥ. That is defined. Anyone who takes the body as the self, he is a go-kharaḥ, animal. And that is our protest, that "You are animal; you are passing as very learned scholar, scientist." That we want to protest. We want to expose them, that they are cheating people. They have no perfect knowledge; still, they are passing as scientist and big men and... That is our protest.

Mādhava: Can we say that the living entity is there, and that he is the one that makes the molecules and the atoms come together to form a body just like the scientists give explanation? No? We can't?

Prabhupāda: No. Because the living entity is there for the formation of his body, so many things are going on, action and reaction of the matter. That's all. That is depending on his desires. It is so subtle thing. He is desiring, and action, reaction is going on. And as soon as the living entity is not there, these action and reaction will stop. So they are trying to find out the missing thing. That missing thing is the living entity. That they do not know, foolishly. Just like a motorcar is running very nicely, and as soon as the driver goes away it stops. The machine is there, the everything is there, but this rascal mechanic, he comes, "Something is missing." And why something missing? But he does not know the missing part is the driver. He is finding out in the motorcar what is missing. The motorcar, everything is there. The hand is there, leg is there, heart is there, the intestines are there, everything is there. So they cannot explain. They say, "Now the blood has become white." Then make it red. Where is the difficulty? So they do not know what is missing; neither he'll take, I mean to say, learned instruction. That is their defect. Real thing is the driver is missing, but that they will not accept. They are so foolish, they are thinking that motorcar is running automatically.

Morning Walk -- July 11, 1975, Chicago:

Śrī Govinda: It all began from a primeval explosion.

Prabhupāda: Then same question, wherefrom the explosion came?

Satsvarūpa: They say that explosion began at time zero.

Prabhupāda: Huh?

Satsvarūpa: Time zero. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Time zero?

Satsvarūpa: Time began then, at time zero. And they say that if you ask the question, "What was before that?" that's not a logical, sensible question.

Prabhupāda: Why?

Satsvarūpa: They say it's a question that should not even be asked.

Prabhupāda: No, then you are rascal. You are beginning from zero. How you can begin from zero?

Devotee: Everything comes from nothing then.

Prabhupāda: So that is not philosophy.

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- April 22, 1976, Melbourne:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa:

na jāyate mriyate vā kadācin

nāyaṁ bhūtvā bhavitā vā na bhūyaḥ

ajo nityaḥ śāśvato 'yaṁ purāṇo

na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre

(BG 2.20)

"For the soul there is never birth nor death, nor having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain."

Brian Singer: Without the consciousness, what happens to the soul when the body dies?

Prabhupāda: He enters another body. Suppose if by force I get you out of this room, then you enter another room. That's all. But this is illegal, that you are living in this room.... By force if I get you out, that is illegal. Then I have to await for the punishment, "Why you have driven out this?" So similarly, although soul is immortal, but taking the soul is immortal, you cannot cut anyone's throat. He has got a right to live in that body for some time by the ordained order of the Supreme. I cannot get you out by force. That is sinful. By nature's way, when he gives up this body, that's all right. But I cannot force the soul to go out of this body by killing. That is sinful.

Room Conversation -- June 9, 1976, Los Angeles:

Hṛdayānanda:"For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain."

Prabhupāda: That's it. So as a lawyer, when there is some dispute, you refer to the lawbook. Similarly, when there is dispute how the soul is immortal, the body is changing, you refer to Bhagavad-gītā. You find it clear, na jāyate na mriyate, clearly said. Explain?

Hṛdayānanda: Purport? "Qualitatively, the small atomic fragmental part of the supreme spirit is one with the Supreme. He undergoes no changes like the body. Sometimes the soul is called the steady..."

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Just bring little salt.

Hṛdayānanda: "...or kūṭa-stha. The body is subject to six kinds of transformations. It takes its birth in the womb of the mother's body, remains for some time, grows, produces some effects, gradually dwindles, and at last vanishes into oblivion. The soul, however, does not go through such changes. The soul is not born, but, because he takes on a material body, the body takes its birth. The soul does not take birth there, and the soul does not die. Anything which has birth also has death. And because the soul has no birth, he therefore has no past, present or future. He is eternal, ever-existing and primeval—that is, there is no trace in history of his coming into being. Under the impression of the body, we seek the history of birth, etc., of the soul. The soul does not at any time become old, as the body does. The so-called old man therefore feels himself to be in the same spirit as in his childhood or youth. The changes of the body do not affect the soul. The soul does not deteriorate like a tree, nor anything material. The soul has no by-product either. The by-products of the body, namely children, are also different individual souls, and, owing to the body, they appear as children of a particular man. The body develops because of the soul's presence, but the soul has neither offshoots nor change.

'Life Comes From Life' Slideshow Discussions -- July 3, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Hari-śauri: This is 2.20. "For the soul there is never birth nor death, nor having once been does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain." (purport) "The soul can never be cut into pieces by any weapon, nor can he be burned by fire, nor moistened by water, nor withered by the wind. This individual soul is unbreakable and insoluble, and can be neither burned nor dried."

Prabhupāda: This is nonphysical. This is not physical. Physical, what is that physical thing which cannot be burned, which cannot be cut, which cannot be soaked? There is no such thing to the physical exterior. Is there anything?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: No.

Prabhupāda: Therefore not physical. This is definition by negation. In the logic, there is a process of definition by negation. The Māyāvādīs, they define this Brahman, neti, neti, neti, neti, negation. "It is not this, it is not this." What is, that they cannot tell. They simply negate. That is a partial definition. Yes, go on.

Interview with Newsweek -- July 14, 1976, New York:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The translation is, "For the soul there is never birth nor death nor having once been does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain."

Prabhupāda: So there is no question of death for a spiritually realized person.

Interviewer: Is there any method for dissent within your movement? Or change?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Reform, you mean? Changing the teaching perhaps, to fit the times?

Rāmeśvara: Just like in the church, as the public mood is changed, they have compromised on certain issues like abortion, homosexuality, priests getting married. So she wants to know if in our movement there will be this arrangement also. (laughter)

Interviewer: Well, I didn't necessarily mean the specifics.

Bali-mardana: In other words the purity is maintained by... The system is perfect to begin with so it remains perfect by being unchanged. If the system is imperfect, you may always be questioning.

Prabhupāda: Yes. When the system is imperfect, then it has to be changed according to time and circumstance. But if the system is itself perfect, there is no question of... Just like the perfect system: the sun rises from the eastern side. So for millions and trillions of years the system is going on because the system is perfect. It doesn't require change, neither you can change. You cannot ask the sun to rise from the western side. So if the soul is eternal, it does not die or it is slain after the body is finished. But that is eternal fact. Destined in the past present and future, everything.

Radio Interview -- July 27, 1976, London:

Harikeśa:

na jāyate mriyate vā kadācin

nāyaṁ bhūtva bhavitā vā na bhūyaḥ

ajo nityaḥ śāśvato 'yam purāṇo

na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre

(BG 2.20)

"For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain."

Mike Robinson: Thank you very much for reading that. So can you explain to me just a bit more, if the soul is undying, does everybody's soul go to be with God when they die? Do you have a belief in a heaven or a hell?

Prabhupāda: Not necessarily. If he's qualified, if he qualifies himself in this life to go back home, back to Godhead, then he can go. If he does not qualify himself, he gets another material body, and there are 8,400,000 different forms of body. And according to his desire and karma, activities, the nature, laws of nature, gives him a body. Just like a man infects some disease and he develops that disease. Is it difficult to understand?

1947 to 1965 Correspondence

Letter to Mr. Bailey -- Allahabad 7 July, 1953:

So the spirit that conducts even intelligence is the primeval root of everything and there is an adjustment of spirit and matter as much as there is an adjustment of smoke & fire. The smoke is a conditional state of fire and therefore smoke is nothing but fire and yet we cannot compare smoke & fire on the same platform. Smoke emanates from fire but it is disturbing condition of fire. We need fire and not the smoke.

1975 Correspondence

Letter to Mr. Ashis Roy -- Mayapur 8 April, 1975:

Please accept my greetings. I am in due receipt of your kind letter dated 27th march, 1975 and have noted the contents carefully. The process of opening a center somewhere is that we go there and hold classes for one week on the teachings of Bhagavad-gita and if the people like, then we'll open a center. Actually, the teachings of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu that in every town and village there will be a center of Krishna Consciousness, is essential. People must co-operate. If not, then they will have to suffer. So, I am very glad that you have come forward, being one of the leaders of the cultural community. I am very much enthused by this. Our ideology is standard. It is not anything new, but it is very old. It is not anything concocted. ajo nityah sasvato 'yam purano na hanyate hanyamane sarire (BG 2.20), The living entity is unborn, eternal, ever-existing, undying and primeval. He is not slain when the body is slain. (Bhagavad-gita 2/20).