Power (Conversations 1974 - 1975)

Expressions researched:
"power" |"power's" |"powered" |"powerhouse" |"powers"

Notes from the compiler: VedaBase query: power or powered or powerhouse or powers or power's not "supreme power" not "power* of" not "no power*" not "without * power*" not "without power*" not "mystic power*" not "mystic * power*" not "power to" not "powers to"

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 9, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Number of zeroes never make one. It is zero. You add thousands of zeroes, one after another, the value will be zero. Not one.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But there is a theory, Śrīla Prabhupāda... Not theory. It's a fact, that if some number is raised to the power zero, that becomes one. In mathematics.

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But I am speaking that you combine millions of zeroes. That will never become one. That I am speaking. Zero is zero. Zero plus zero equal to zero. Zero minus zero equal to zero. Zero multiplied zero, zero. Zero divided by zero, zero. That's all. Where you get...? And by the side of zero, if you bring one, eko brahma, immediately it will become ten. And add another zero, immediately hundred, ten times increased. That one must be there, one God. Then zero increases value. Similarly, this material world is zero, but if there is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then it is valuable. Then it is valuable.

Morning Walk -- January 10, 1974, Los Angeles:

Devotee: Śrīla Prabhupāda, if... Since Kṛṣṇa is the power that gives the demigods the ability to render everything, then why is it recommended in the Nectar of Devotion that a Vaiṣṇava should worship Gaṇapati?

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa worship, everyone. Just like we worship also ordinary man if it gives us facility to worship Kṛṣṇa. We go to somebody and worship him, flatter him, because he will give some money, and it will be engaged in Kṛṣṇa's service. The man is not worshipable, but he will help us to worship Kṛṣṇa. Thereby he will be helped and we will be also helped, and Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied. Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied that "My devotee has brought some money from this rascal. All right." That is... (laughter) So Gaṇapati is also devotee. So Gaṇapati, it is not required, but sometimes we do. Just like gopīs, they worshiped Goddess Durgā, Kātyāyanī. They did not require, but the social system is that. But they asked that Mother Kātyāyanī, give us the opportunity to have Kṛṣṇa as our husband." The aim is Kṛṣṇa. Generally, they go to worship Devī Durgā for asking material benefit. Dhanaṁ dehi rūpaṁ dehi yaśo dehi, the things which we want in material... But the gopīs, they do not go for any material things. For Kṛṣṇa. Similarly, we can go to any demigod. Why Gaṇapati? Everyone. But our prayer should be, "Please give us Kṛṣṇa." Then it is correct.

Morning Walk -- January 12, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Why in the school? In every home.

Prajāpati: Well, it was a very big issue several years ago. They used to have a prayer at the beginning of each school day. But then one demoniac lady, one atheist, she, by her, simply by her will-power got the Supreme Court to rule that unconstitutional. Now prayers are not allowed in schools anymore unless we make an amendment to the constitution, saying "Yes, we can have a prayer in school." Then it would be allowed.

Prabhupāda: Even prayers are allowed, unless there is scientific knowledge of God, that will not help. The prayer's still going on in the churches, but what improvement? They have become hackneyed. It requires training.

Morning Walk -- January 18, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: Therefore I say that a sensible man is that "I am controlled. I am controlled by some other agent of Kṛṣṇa. So why not be controlled directly by Kṛṣṇa." This is sense. I cannot be independent. Just like the government. If somebody says, "I don't agree to be controlled by you," then government will kick with police, with military. That is our position. We are being kicked by the agent of government, material nature. We are desiring in different way to become controller or enjoyer, and we are being offered different facilities, means different types of body, birth and death. So because they have no sense, they have accepted this process. So by the force of nature... "You wanted to desire. You desired this thing. All right, take this body. You wanted to eat without discrimination. All right, take this body of a pig and eat up to stool." That is nature's gift. So therefore he's changing. Ei rūpe brahmāṇḍa brahmite kono bhāgyavān jīva. He's going on changing, this dress that dress, that dress, that dress, that dress. But he's not in sense that "How I can stop this change?" That he doesn't know. Now, as Americans, they have so many nice facilities, but you cannot enjoy them. By nature's force, you'll have to change. What you can do? Today you are living on the twenty-fourth floor of this skyscraper, and tomorrow you may become a rat in that room. How you can change it? It is not in your power. The rat is also in the same room and you are also in the same room. Who has made this arrangement?

Morning Walk -- January 22, 1974, Hawaii:

Prabhupāda: I don't believe your documentation; you do not believe my documentation. Then let us come to reason. The reason is, as we see varieties—one is better than the other—there must be the best. And that is God. So far documentation is concerned, you do not believe my documentation, I do not believe your documentation. Then? How the conclusion will come? As far as possible, by reasoning. Reasoning is that we find one is better than the other. So go on finding; if you have got power, you will see that the best. (aside:) Give me that. This is reasoning. As the child has a father, the father has his father, the grandfather has his father, then there must be some ultimate father. How can you deny this? By experience you see. Suppose a great-grandchild does not see the great-grandfather, does it mean that he was not there? The reason is as everyone has got father, father's father, his father, his father, his, so go on, find out the ultimate father.

Room Conversation -- February 13, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: So, what is your philosophy?

Guest (1): My philosophy?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Guest (1): The body is not the self. The self, or the ātmān, is the one absolute existence, but is has a delusive power whereby...

Prabhupāda: Who is that God? Delusive power?

Guest (1): God, or...

Devotee: God?

Guest (1): ...the māyā, the māyā of God makes, makes a man identify himself with his body, but it is, that's an illusion, and it's God's play that sometimes..., it's God's play that sometimes a man ignorantly identifies himself with the body, and through God's grace the bonds of ignorance are..., he is released from the bonds of ignorance through God's grace.

Prabhupāda: By God's grace, what happens?

Guest (1): One cannot... One achieves, one attains love for God, pure love. And, uh, by loving God, one, one, uh, one's..., one no longer identifies himself with his body.

Prabhupāda: So result of loving God, what it is?

Guest (1): Without loving God?

Prabhupāda: No.

Morning Walk -- February 22, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, it is world over.

Dr. Patel: this robbing(?) even in America or England or in Continental countries also. The same.

Prabhupāda: The other countries, they were never following.

Dr. Patel: Worst are these Muslim countries. They kill each other and come into the power. Still they are following their forefathers. They are faithful to them.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (japa).

Dr. Patel: We should go there. And here.

Prabhupāda: A little more?

Dr. Patel: So I am trying to associate with them because here is a guru who is trying to spread the real religion to the foreign countries.

Prabhupāda: Thank you very much.

Morning Walk -- February 23, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Mechanical.

Dr. Patel: So the vartas (?) also get it, these śakti-vartas. They get this by tantric yoga. I can't still understand how tantras, by following, I mean, drawing particular figures and writing down those figures, you can get powers. This is very common in Bengal side, this tantra. No? I read a book on tantra by Sir Arthur Avalon, and he described so wonderful powers come by this and that. I don't know whether it is a fact or not.

Prabhupāda: No, no. That is materialism. Anyone who is after powers, that is materialism.

Dr. Patel: I could not believe in it. How could it come?

Prabhupāda: It can come.

Dr. Patel: Not so.

Prabhupāda: Now, this is also tantra. Just like nowadays, they were flying sputnik, and from here controlling everything. Millions and millions of miles...

Dr. Patel: But there is a science behind it, no?

Prabhupāda: So that is also a kind of science, subtle science.

Morning Walk -- February 23, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: The same.

Dr. Patel: ...either way. Where the śiṣya draws his power and guru gives it.

Prabhupāda: Yes, but if he has no power, how he can give?

Dr. Patel: But... That is what I say. So we have to take guru as God.

Prabhupāda: So therefore guru as God, not distinction that guru is so much God, and he is so much God.

Dr. Patel: I don't say distinction. I...

Prabhupāda: No, you said that distinction of body, distinction...

Dr. Patel: I did not say that. You have to understood it differently.

Prabhupāda: No, no. I am not. It is the guru principle we are talking. That is about guru.

Dr. Patel: I want to learn from you.

Prabhupāda: I am not guru. I am... I am... This is... The guru has no material body. Just like the statue is not material, similarly, guru's body is not material.

Morning Walk -- March 15, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: There must be some law like that. The government has taken from the public because it is not being worked out. Now we shall work. Give us this land. (Hindi) "You have taken from the public. Why should you not give us?" So that there will be no question, even government does not, we shall go and occupy, occupy, and go on tilling. What the government will...? Public will support us.

Gupta: Again it is being distributed to their relations, those who are in the power, and then they do not work again.

Prabhupāda: Again

Gupta: Then it remains...

Prabhupāda: Then whatever field is not being worked, we occupy them, and begin to work. And invite all the unemployed, "Come and join us. We shall give you food, shelter, everything." (break) ...how Kṛṣṇa is setting example. Kṛṣṇa is saying that "I have already arranged the result of this fighting. Everyone will be killed." Nimitta-mātraṁ bhava savyasācin. But still, He is inducing Arjuna to work. Not that He's already (indistinct), "I am your friend, Kṛṣṇa. Everything will be done." "It will be done, but you have to work."

Morning Walk -- March 16, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: On the basis of Bhagavad-gītā, then nobody can supercede. (break) ...he turns back all our money invested, (indistinct) people. (break) ...if he's prepared to pay double the price, so why not pay the full price, fourteen lakhs? We have paid two lakhs, let him pay twelve lakhs and he'll immediately transfer, and we'll take double price from him, so that... (break) ...if he's so eager. These, these are practical. If he's prepared to pay double, why not pay us? (break—switches to room conversation) Sun is the same. The power observation, this is a morning sun, this is noon sun. The sun is the same. We sometimes say that because this noon sun, it is so strong. So sun is always powerful. It is our appreciation, relative appreciation, that we consider in the morning it is less scorching and in the noon it is very scorching. Kṛṣṇa is always Kṛṣṇa. ...tābhir ya eva nija-rūpatayā kalābhiḥ. Nija-rūpa kalā taya.

Room Conversation -- March 16, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: To carry his order. That is purification. If you create your own atmosphere, then you become impure. If you simply carry out the order of your spiritual master, then you will be benefited. If you do your own business, that is not good. You can not do anything which is not ordered by your spiritual master. Of course, everyone should have sense. It is not that we are dull, stone. Unless it is moved, it cannot... You have got moving power. But the basic issue should be to carry out the orders of his spiritual master. That is your president. Otherwise you are not.

Harikeśa: Sometimes we have the experience of someone in authority who is obviously not following your instructions.

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Harikeśa: Sometimes we have the experience, someone in authority who is obviously not following your instructions.

Prabhupāda: That you have not to judge.

Morning Walk -- March 17, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Money's pure. (laughter) And prasāda, because it is offered to Kṛṣṇa, it is impure. Just see their argument. Money is pure. Even you can give me with your hand as much as you like. Because it is pure, I'll take it. And so far prasāda is concerned, because it is offered to Kṛṣṇa, therefore I cannot take it. (break) Oh yes. She has got the power. Śakti-mati Sar. Some... The police commissioner has remarked, "This bhajana is nuisance." So we have to agitate. There are so many Vaiṣṇavas. Bhajana is nuisance? Eh?

Guest: (indistinct)

Prabhupāda: So there must be some big agitation to drive away this man. The demand should be that "This man should be immediately removed. He has focused a sarcastic remark on a very pure religious system." This movement should be started. He must be removed immediately.

Morning Walk -- March 24, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: "Because of My direction." Hetunānena. "On this account." Mayādhyakṣeṇa. "Under My Supreme control." Just like these boys and girls, my students, they are working under my direction. They are individuals, I am also individual. And they have got their independence, to obey or not to obey, but still, they are directed under my supervision. Similarly, this material nature has got individual power. Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni vibharti durgā (Bs. 5.44). But still, yasya icchānurūpam api ceṣṭate sā. That material nature is working under the direction of the Supreme Person. Therefore govindam ādi-puruṣam. (Hindi)

Dr. Patel: We call him Baby. He is innocent like a baby.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is very good qualification. But sometimes babies are misled.

Morning Walk -- March 31, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: When we, when you find vibhūtimat sattvaṁ, a very powerful man, a powerful elephant, you should, you know that "There is Kṛṣṇa. This power is Kṛṣṇa."

Dr. Patel: This is standard nyāya.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Mr. Sar:

yad yad vibhūtimat sattvaṁ

śrīmad ūrjitam eva vā

tat tad evāvagaccha tvaṁ

mama tejo-'ṁśa-sambhavam

Prabhupāda: So where is the difficulty to understand Kṛṣṇa? (laughs) Every moment you can remember Kṛṣṇa. Every moment you can see Kṛṣṇa, provided you have got eyes. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti (Bs. 5.38). Santaḥ. So you have to become a santaḥ, perfect santa. Then you'll see Kṛṣṇa always.

Morning Walk -- April 1, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Pure bhakti is above karma-yoga. Pure bhakti is above karma-yoga.

Bhāgavata: That is the difference between the Chapter Karma-yoga and Karma-yoga in Kṛṣṇa Consciousness.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Pure, pure devotion means Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam.

Guest (1): I read fifteen percent power cut from today in the state. They have not able to do the service in electric. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...cut, cent percent. (break)

Makhanlal: ...you're performing, is the vaidhī-bhakti stage of...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Makhanlal: ...of the sādhana-bhakti, the regulative principles.

Prabhupāda: Yes, vaidhī-bhakti means regulative principles, and when you are accustomed, automatically you perform, that is rāga-bhakti.

Makhanlal: So vaidhī-bhakti is considered superior to karma-yoga then.

Prabhupāda: No. Karma-yoga is better.

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Paraṁ bhāvam ajānantaḥ. They do not know what is the all-omniscient nature of Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: The spiritual power of Kṛṣṇa. No. Paraṁ bhāva? Moghāśā mogha-karmāṇo mogha-jñānā vicetasaḥ (BG 9.12).

Prabhupāda: Therefore, as soon as these rascals, they get little power, yogic perfection, they think, "I have become God. I have become God."

Dr. Patel: Mogha-jñānā vicetasaḥ. (laughing)

Prabhupāda: Yes. Rascal, he thinks that because "I can make like this, little gold, therefore I have become God." The rascal does not think that "I am making, say, two grains or five grains of gold, but one who has made gold mines, millions, so he will be God or I will be God?" The rascal does not think that. And other rascals follow, "Oh, here is God. Here is God. He is creating gold." You see? Therefore mūḍha.

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes, this is the understanding of Kṛṣṇa. Yo mām ajam. Ajam. "Because Kṛṣṇa appears as born of Vasudeva and Devaki..." That is mūrkha. He appears. He appears, ajo 'pi sann avyayātmā bhūtānām īśvaro 'pi san, sambhavāmi. That is His extraordinary power, how He ap... But when one understands that He is aja, there is no birth of Kṛṣṇa... Aja, and?

Dr. Patel: Maheśvaram.

Prabhupāda: Maheśvaram, mahā īśvaram. There are īśvaras, but parameśvara or mahā-īśvara, that is Kṛṣṇa.

Dr. Patel: Shall I read further?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Now, this is to be understood, how "You are all-pervading by Your influence, by Your power." That means "You are always there." "You" person is there. Just like a big man, big businessman, is sitting in his room, but he is all-pervading, all-pervading.

Dr. Patel: But he must have got special powers deputed to certain people. And these are that vibhūtis.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That is vibhūti. That does not mean... Māyāvādī philosophy is: "Because He has spread everywhere, therefore He is imperson." He remains person, without any change, avyaya. But still, He is spread. That he is asking that "How I shall understand You, that You are spread everywhere." Akhilātma-bhūtaḥ. Goloka eva nivasaty akhilātma-bhūtaḥ (Bs. 5.37). That is... So we have to understand from Kṛṣṇa how He is all-pervading, not that mental speculation. "Just like if you take a thing and distribute all over, the original thing is lost." Not like that. Original Kṛṣṇa is there.

Morning Walk -- April 4, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: So darśayam, darśaya. "Now, how You have, I mean to say, manifested yourself in this cosmic, gigantic cosmic manifestation?" So if it is possible, kindly... So the point is: this gigantic cosmic manifestation is dependent on Kṛṣṇa, not that Kṛṣṇa is one of the product of this gigantic manifestation.

Girirāja: (reads synonyms) (Prabhupāda interrupts)

Prabhupāda: Here Kṛṣṇa is addressed, "Yogeśvara," because the yogic power, that is estimated very much important by the ordinary class of men. So He is the master of all yogic power. Just like here, that gold maker?

Girirāja: Sai Baba?

Prabhupāda: Sai Baba. He is showing little yogic aiśvarya. But people are, because they do not know, they are not aware of Kṛṣṇa, they are taking him as God. You see?

Girirāja: (reads rest of synonyms for this verse) "Translation: If you think that I am able to behold Your cosmic form, O my Lord, O master of all mystic power, then kindly show me that universal self."

Prabhupāda: Now, here is the description of how God manifests. So unless one reads Bhagavad-gītā carefully, they will be misled by this avatāra, that avatāra, that avatāra. You see?

Morning Walk -- April 4, 1974, Bombay:

Girirāja: (completes synonyms) "Translation: But you cannot see Me with your present eyes. Therefore I give to you divine eyes by which you can behold My mystic opulence."

Prabhupāda: Now, this is Kṛṣṇa's power. Let us understand. A teeny aeroplane is floating in the air, and it is making so much sound. And millions and trillions of planets are floating, there is no sound. There is no sound. (break) ...if you take it and fix it up... What is that? One thousand or more than, one thousand miles.

Dr. Patel: A second.

Prabhupāda: No, no. This earth, per hour.

Dr. Patel: Earth is rotating and also going round... It has got two movements.

Prabhupāda: Anyway, but we cannot understand any movement, but it is moving. The force is there.

Dr. Patel: Shall I go further?

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Morning Walk -- April 10, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Lord Śiva is Lord Śiva. He is very powerful demigod. He can give. He has got the power. But in spite of being favored by Lord Śiva, in spite of his becoming the great devotee of Lord Śiva, why he is described as rākṣasa? That is the point. So therefore if I say Rāvaṇa a rākṣasa, according to the śāstra, another devotee may be angry. So what can I do? It is stated in the śāstra, rākṣasa. Similarly, in the śāstra it is stated that na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ prapadyante narādhamāḥ: "If one is not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa he is duṣkṛtina, the most sinful, mūḍhā, rascal, naradhāma, lowest of the mankind, māyayā apahṛta-jñāna." These things are there. But if we quote the śāstra, that "This man has not surrendered to the Supreme Lord; therefore he is a rascal," then what is wrong with us? It may be very strong words, but it is stated in the śāstra. Just like about Rāvaṇa, it is stated that he is a rākṣasa. So it may be very insulting and strong words, but this is the statement of the śāstra. And if one quotes from the śāstra, what is wrong on his part? Suppose in the court a big man has done something criminal, and the judgement is that he should be punished. So can you accuse the court, "Oh, such a big man?" Just like... For the time being let us understand. Mahatma Gandhi was put to jail in so many times. So nobody could say because according to law there was civil disobedience. So if the law puts you in the jail, so can you protest against that? Then you will be also put into jail, contempt of court. Although everyone respects Mahatma Gandhi, but why he was put into jail? According to law. It may be it is man-made law, it is wrong, but the principle is that whatever is judgement of the śāstra, we have to take. It doesn't matter who is that man and how great he is. That is... Yaḥ śāstra-vidhim utsṛjya vartate kāma-kārataḥ, na siddhim sa... (BG 16.23). The śāstra is given stress always. So you cannot go beyond the verdict of the śāstra. That is the injunction.

Morning Walk -- April 11, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Therefore he is not God. That is existence of God. You cannot do because there is higher power controlling you. God means controller. He is controlling you. You cannot do that. Therefore you are not God. There is superior controller, who does not allow to do this. You have to abide by the laws. This is common sense reasoning. If you are being controlled, how you become God? God means the supreme controller. Is it all right? So long you will be controlled, you are not God. But where is the position that you are no more controlled? That position is never.

Indian Man (1): It is human nature; no doubt about it.

Prabhupāda: Nature? What is this nature? Nature is an agency of God by which He controls. That is nature, that "I have got a stick. I can beat you. But the stick is not beating, I am beating." This is knowledge. And the rascal will think, "The stick is beating." What stick has got power?

Indian Man (1): Somebody is there.

Morning Walk -- April 14, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. (break) ...also have to die.

Dr. Patel: We die, don't mind, but we want others to die as Muslims. We want to die them as Hindus. (break) ...Supersonic sound.

Prabhupāda: Supersonic, what is that? Any circumstance, the ruling power is nature. He cannot avoid that. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). (break) ...more their senses are turbulent. This is also... Therefore there is one tapasā brahmacāryena (SB 6.1.13) and the word anaśana, anaśana, "not eating." Eating should be reduced.

Dr. Patel: Tapasā brahmacāryena... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...yamena damena. There are so many. Out of that, there is one, anasana, not eating. Yes. (break)

Girirāja: "...not very turbulent, he cannot become violent." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...yuktāhāra. Not to eat more, not to eat less. That is required. (break) ...when I was alone in Baroda, I was making my customers for Back to Godhead. So I entered one gentleman's house and from the porch he was, "Don't come! Don't come! Don't come!" (laughs) Immediately.

Morning Walk -- April 16, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Otherwise these modern researches would not have been brought into existence if there was no difference.

Prabhupāda: No, that is their nature, to differ. That is the nature. Nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam: "He is not a muni if he does not differ with other muni."

Dr. Patel: Yes, that's it. Muni does not speak. Maunam. (break)

Prabhupāda: Why there is difference? (break) ...and Kṛṣṇa's power is compared. Brahmā's power is just like glowworm, and Kṛṣṇa's power is just like day sunlight. (break) The power displayed, they are of different degrees. That is the difference. The Māyāvādī philosophers, they say everything is water. They give that example. But the sea water, the force of the sea water, and the water in a pot, small pot, the degrees of force are different. In England it is very common to say, "Lord Chelmsford. Lord Chelmsford," do you know?

Dr. Patel: We used to call him Chelemfor.

Prabhupāda: No. So Chelmsford is a place, is a village. But he is called Lord Chelmsford. He is personified. Like that.

Morning Walk -- April 16, 1974, Bombay:

Girirāja: "Lord Viṣṇu, Brahmā also realized, was the reservoir of all truth, knowledge and bliss. He is the combination of three transcendental features, namely eternity, knowledge and bliss. He is the object of worship by the followers of the Upaniṣads. Brahmā realized that all the different forms of cows, boys and calves transformed into Viṣṇu forms were not transformed by a mysticism of the type that a yogi or demigod can display by specific powers invested in him. The cows, calves and boys transformed into viṣṇu-mūrtis, or Viṣṇu forms, were not displays of viṣṇu-māyā, or Viṣṇu energy, but were Viṣṇu Himself. The respective qualifications of Viṣṇu and viṣṇu-māyā are just like fire and heat. In the heat there is..." (break)

Dr. Patel: (Sanskrit) (break) So you stop. You stop only.

Prabhupāda: Give up, give up the result.

Dr. Patel: That is what the Bhagavad-gītā says. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...kāryaṁ karma karoti yaḥ,...

Dr. Patel: Sa sannyāsī ca yogi ca.

Prabhupāda: Go on.

Girirāja: "The transcendental form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead is perfect or so great that the impersonal followers of the Upaniṣads cannot..." (break)

Prabhupāda: Sometimes we...

Dr. Patel: First reading you don't mind following.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So after all, we have got still the material body. Sometimes we get tired. That is also fortune. (break) That is the advantage of human life. You can check.

Morning Walk -- April 16, 1974, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: First reading you don't mind following.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So after all, we have got still the material body. Sometimes we get tired. That is also fortune. (break) That is the advantage of human life. You can check.

Dr. Patel: Particular intelligence is given to human being?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: The elephant has got so much intelligence, they say, as good as human being.

Prabhupāda: Intelligence... Not only intelligence. Human life has got the discriminating power. Sad-asat. (Indians speaking) (break) ...infected, how your medicine will be sold? (break) ...merchant, I will say like that. (break) Since we are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, then bahyābhyantaraṁ śuciḥ. We are... What is called? Prophylactic, prophylactic. (end)

Morning Walk -- April 18, 1974, Bombay:

Girirāja: (reading) "This māyā or illusory struggle for existence is immediately stopped. Lord Brahmā, who has full control over the Goddess of learning and who is considered to be the best authority in Vedic knowledge, was thus perplexed, being unable to understand the extraordinary power manifested in the Supreme Personality of Godhead." (break)

Prabhupāda: ...muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ. Tene brahma hṛdā ādi-kavaye muhyanti yat sūrayaḥ. (break) ...said that unless one comes to understand the inconceivable power of God, there is no meaning of God.

Dr. Patel: It is inconceivable to conceive God.

Prabhupāda: No, no, inconceivable power of God. God is in your presence.

Dr. Patel: No, no, but His personal power is inconceivable. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...understand the inconceivable power of God. (break) First of all he has to come to the sattva-guṇa. Sthitaḥ sattve prasīdati.

Room Conversation with Irish Poet, Desmond O'Grady -- May 23, 1974, Rome:

Prabhupāda: What is that?

Yogeśvara: I can't read it.

Atreya Ṛṣi: Niran, san, oṁkara, dvāroṁkāra, so 'ham, sat-nām.

Guest: Sat-nām. Those five names, according to your ways, position, you will be attracted to one of the names. Everyone has a center of power, energy, the way he taught us. Whatever you fear(indistinct), what particular name one(indistinct), some one that you're attracted to meditating on. (indistinct) dvāroṁkāra, so 'ham and sat-nām. I thought that I met a good master.

Dhanañjaya: Mr. O'Grady. Desmond O'Grady and some of his friends have just arrived. They'd like to come and see you and speak with you.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Atreya Ṛṣi: This is the Irish poet. (guests enter)

Satsvarūpa: Please sit down.

Prabhupāda: Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. How are you?

Woman: Very well, thank you.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: No. If there is actual brain, there is no problem. Just like if I have got good brain... I want to take this thing in my pocket. But if I have got brain, "No, this will be stealing," then I can refrain from it. But if I think that "It is lying here. I can take," what is that?

C. Hennis: I think that your effort of philosophy and teaching must really be directed, in the present state of affairs where countries are organized in the form of national states, must really be directed to the national leaders of government, the people who exercise temporal and spiritual power in the various sovereign states. And the United Nations is a forum for these sovereign states. The International Labor Organization is a forum for the sovereign states on certain subjects related to labor...

Prabhupāda: No, whatever subject may be, our point is the same. You just try to understand. If... You can organize so many, but if there is lack of brain, the brain is not in order, then any amount of suborganization, organization, will never be successful. That is my point.

Room Conversation with Biochemist, Dr. Sallaz -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: No, it is energy, exactly the name. Because we say prakṛti. Prakṛti means energy, nature, nature. Just like it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakṛtiṁ parām. You find out this verse. (Yogeśvara translates.)

Dr. Sallaz: Our aim. We are looking about. The state of the world is going down since thirty years, I said. With pollution, with strengths, with power, with everything, the world is going down, going to the catastrophe. And there is only one possibility to save it. It is a question of spiritual revolution. Without a spiritual revolution, between twenty, twenty-five years, the world is finished, all the world of which people are so proud.

Prabhupāda: Very good.

Dr. Sallaz: And this we are doing everything in our power to prepare and to do what we can to prepare this spiritual revolution. It is the thing we have to do today to save the world. Without spiritual revolution, there is no possibility to save the world. It is going down definitely. For this earth, yes.

Prabhupāda: So we have started this movement, spiritual revolution, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So why don't you cooperate with us?

Room Conversation with Biochemist, Dr. Sallaz -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Then what do you mean by spiritual revolution?

Dr. Sallaz: It is to see, to look, for the real truth, the simple truth. The very simple truth. And to abandon our way of life aiming only for money, power and material things, to go back to simple living and especially to living with up.

Prabhupāda: Living with?

Yogeśvara: Living with higher thoughts.

Prabhupāda: Then higher thoughts... Is there any definition of the higher thoughts? (French)

Yogeśvara: He says humanly it is impossible to understand it.

Dr. Sallaz: We can feel it. We can believe it, but we cannot explain it.

Prabhupāda: No, if there is explanation by a person who is not a human being, say, God.

Room Conversation with Prof. Regamay, Professor of Sanskrit at the University of Lausanne -- June 4, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: This is very good example. There are many candles. Just like you ignite one candle. Then from this candle, another candle, another candle. Then many thousands of candles. So each candle is of the same power, lighting power. But still the first one is called original. So far the candle power is concerned, they are of equal flame, but still, the first candle, the second candle, the third candle. like that.

Prof. Regamay: Yes, I understand.

Prabhupāda: Dīpārcir eva hi daśāntaram abhyupetya dīpāyate vivṛta-hetuḥ (Bs. 5.46). They are not derived from any other power. They are all Viṣṇu-tattva. Dīpārcir eva hi daśāntaram abhyupetya dīpāyate, yas tādṛg eva ca viṣṇu-tayā vibhāti (Bs. 5.46). This is the expansion of Viṣṇu, Viṣṇu-tayā. Govindam ādi-puruṣam. He is always referring, Govinda, Kṛṣṇa. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **.

Prof. Regamay: Yet I still think of this problem why Lord Kṛṣṇa had to have an incarnation like Buddha who was teaching atheist doctrine and no...

Prabhupāda: That is described. I have described in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Find out, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, First Canto, first part.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Geneva, there are varieties of living entities and also houses and mountains. So two things, animate and inanimate. One section, animate; another section, inanimate. So we are small gods, or īśvaras. We may control the government and the management of the street and parks and everything, but we are controlled by the supreme. As supreme God, the supreme controller is not controlled by anyone. I am controlling, but I am being controlled by somebody else. That is God. So therefore we have to admit, we must admit that we are not free. We are controlled. Eh? By superior power or superior controller we are controlled. Therefore our duty is to be controlled according to His desire. So if we agree to be controlled by the Supreme, that is perfect life. And if we do not like to come to be controlled by the supreme, that is sinful life. And this is the perfect knowledge.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Well, Viṣṇu or Kṛṣṇa is the same thing. It is external. Kṛṣṇa... Somebody says Kṛṣṇa is avatāra of Viṣṇu, and we say that Viṣṇu is expansion of Kṛṣṇa. Now, this example I have already given. Just like one candle. The another, ignite another candle, ignite another candle... Now, all these candles, so far light-giving power the same. But you can call, "This is first candle. This is second candle." And if you say the second candle is first candle, so there is no trouble because the candle power is the same.

Yogeśvara: (translates)

Frenchman: (French)

Yogeśvara: He says, do we see Kṛṣṇa as being a savior in the way that Christians see Christ as being the savior?

Prabhupāda: What do you mean by "savior"?

Yogeśvara: (translates)

Frenchman: (French)

Yogeśvara: He say the savior is one who rekindles the spiritual spark that reunites the living being with God. So the savior is in between God and the living being.

Prabhupāda: Savior means who saves you from this material existence. He is called savior. Because the living entity, being entangled in this material existence, he is suffering, so savior means one who saves from this material entanglement and gets him back to God, back to Godhead.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Electric energy.

Robert Gouiran: Any energy you need to survive.

Prabhupāda: So energy comes from a source. Just like this electric energy is coming from the electric powerhouse. There is a resident engineer who is... What is called? Chilling (?)?

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Generating?

Prabhupāda: Generating, yes, generator. He is somehow or other, putting the machine to get out...

Yogeśvara: Turning, turning the generator.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Engineer.

Prabhupāda: Engineer. So the electricity is being generated. So behind this energy there is the living entity, engineer. Otherwise it is useless. No more energy. If you drive away that resident engineer, the electricity will fail. No more energy.

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Struggle. We cannot do anything because the bigger creative energy's there. And we are simply trying to combat with Him. So therefore, uselessly we are struggling. That's all. We cannot change. Because the bigger creative energy is different. Prakṛti, the material nature. Just like they are trying to create living being in the laboratory. So suppose you are trying to create living being by scientific, chemical combination, so what is the credit to you? Millions of living beings are created by the material energy. Where is your credit? You cannot even create a small ant up till now. So simply you are wasting your time. That's all. Therefore it is called, prakṛti-sthāni karṣati. Eh? Just like the children are playing. What is the value of this playing? They are making some howling noise. That's all. What they can do? But they are thinking they are creating so many things. "We are Ṭhākura (?)." (laughter) So you all scientists, you are doing that thing. That's all. You cannot do anything. That is not in your power. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā (BG 7.14). It is very, very difficult, physical energy, which is being conducted... Just like you you have created this nuclear bomb, and if you take it and throw on the sun planet, what is the effect? Nuclear bomb can destroy something here. But where the... Your nuclear bomb will be destroyed if you throw it on the sun. Is it not? What is your calculation? We know the sun...

Room Conversation with Robert Gouiran, Nuclear Physicist from European Center for Nuclear Research -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Robert Gouiran: We can make a speaking...

Prabhupāda: No, speaking, what is that speaking machine? If I speak, then it will speak. (laughter) That is nonsense. This speaking machine will speak when I speak, when the life speaks. Otherwise it has no speaking power. Then what is the use of your machine if there is no life?

Robert Gouiran: But that doesn't tell me what is life.

Prabhupāda: Now, life means... Just like you say that speaking-machine is an instrument. It has no life. But when a living man speaks, the machine speaks.

Yogeśvara: It is a study of the symptoms.

Prabhupāda: Similarly, the whole physical world is a machine, and the Supreme Life, Kṛṣṇa, when He manipulates, operates, then it works. That is stated.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: He said, "Our Father who art in heaven, hallowed be Thy name. Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil, for Thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory for ever and ever."

Prabhupāda: Very nice prayer. Very nice prayer. (pause)

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: This is vandanam. Yes, Śrīla Prabhupāda?

Prabhupāda: Hmm.

Nitāi: Śrīla Prabhupāda, is there some gradual development in all those nine processes of devotional service, beginning from hearing?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Ādau śraddhā tataḥ sādhu-saṅgaḥ (Cc. Madhya 23.14-15). This chanting and hearing should be in the association of devotees. First of all, one must have faith that chanting is good. Then he should chant in the society of the devotees. Then it will develop. He can chant anywhere. But if he chants along... Therefore saṅkīrtana. Bahubhir milita. Many devotees, chanting together, that is called saṅkīrtana. So one, our movement is saṅkīrtana movement, many devotees together would chant the holy name of God. Then it is very quickly successful. Just like a person who comes to our center in the association of the devotees, after few weeks, he also becomes devotee. Quickly. And there are many others, they are seeing that there is a group like this, but because they do not come, they do not understand. Therefore the quick development process is to execute devotional service in the association of devotees, sādhu-saṅga (CC Madhya 22.83).

Room Conversation with Monsieur Mesman, Chief of Law House of Paris -- June 11, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Tejas. No?

Nitāi: Śauryam,

śauryaṁ tejo dhṛtir dākṣyaṁ

yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam

dānam īśvara-bhāvaś ca

kṣātraṁ karma svabhāva-jam

(BG 18.43)

"Heroism, power, determination, resourcefulness, courage in battle, generosity and leadership are the qualities of work for the kṣatriyas."

Prabhupāda: Next class, the vaiśyas. Kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44).

Nitāi:

kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ

vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam

paricaryātmakaṁ karma

śūdrasyāpi svabhāva-jam

(BG 18.44)

"Farming, cattle-raising and business are the qualities of the work for the vaiśyas, and for the śūdras, there is labor and service to others."

Prabhupāda: At the present moment, the people in general, they are engaged in service, in factories, in big, big office, big, big establishment. So they're all śūdras, fourth-class men. And the fourth-class men select their representative. So they must be also fourth-class. Democracy means selected, I mean to..., voted, elected. So because they are being elected by the fourth-class men, the leaders are also fourth-class men. The fourth-class men cannot appreciate the first-class men. And there is lacking of second-class men. So the result is that at the present moment, the whole world is being managed by the fourth-class men. Therefore, there are so many anomalies.

Morning Walk -- June 12, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: They're expecting that?

Paramahaṁsa: Yes.

Prabhupāda: The earth will be finished?

Bhagavān: They think it's within their power.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Bhagavān: It's within their power.

Prabhupāda: Within their power, so many things they're imagining. That is not possible. He can make a big hole only. That's all. Then where he'll stand? Suppose he finishes the earth. Then he is also finished. Then what is the credit? If you suicide, if you cut your own throat, is that very good credit? Then what is the credit? Suppose he has manufactured something that the earth will be finished. Then he'll be also finished. So what is God's loss? There are millions of earth-like planets floating in the sky. So one is lost. What is God's loss? It is your loss, that you are finished. Is that very good invention, to finish yourself? You are being finished. And now you have invented instrument to be finished. So you'll be finished. Wait for that. Why you are anxious to invent something to finish yourself? Is that very good intelligence? You'll be finished. That's a fact. So why you have invented machine to finish yourself quickly and you want to take credit? That means he proves he's a nonsense. He's a nonsense.

Morning Walk -- June 13, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: If the devotee is fearless, how is it Prahlāda was expressing his fearfulness of the material nature?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Even you are fearless, you should not be fool. Because, if you know that "There is danger, I must be very careful," that is intelligence. That is not fearfulness. Besides that, a devotee like Prahlāda, he's fearless, but he's fearful for others. That is stated. Just like the mother. She knows that she'll not catch fire, she'll not fall down in the water, but she is always anxious to see her child that the child may not fall into the water, may not catch fire. She's working in her own way, but always fearful of the child. Similarly, a Vaiṣṇava, he's not fearless for himself, but because he's sympathetic, because he knows that all these rascals, they are wrongly wasting their time, therefore he's anxious, fearful. Para-duḥkha-duḥkhī. They are unhappy by seeing others unhappy. For themselves, there is no unhappiness. That is their grace. And Vaiṣṇava is fearless, even if he's sent to hell, he's not unhappy. Because wherever he goes, he'll chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. So actually he has no fear, fearfulness. He is only unhappy... Just like we are talking. Others may think that we are criticizing, but we are actually talking. Suppose this, one who has manufactured this big park and he has, next life, he has become contaminated, the dog's life, then what is the use? How you can guarantee that you are not going to be a dog? It is under the management of material nature, maram (?), very powerful. Just like even a big man like Napoleon, he's also under the control of material nature. As soon as the time is... "Get out." "No, I want to finish this arch." "No, sir, you get out." Then where is your powerfulness? That they do not know. For the temporary power, they become puffed up and go to hell. That's all. But they have no conception of hell. These are primitive ideas.

Room Conversation with Mr. Tran-van-Kha, and President & Members of the Society of Buddhists in France -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Yogeśvara: Is the sun to be considered a representation of God?

Prabhupāda: Yes, every..., everyone is representation of God. Sun is more powerful representation. You are also representation of God. The God is also a living being. That is said in the dictionary, Oxford Dictionary. God means, "Supreme Being." So we are all beings, and God is the Supreme Being. We are limited by our power. God is unlimited by His power.

Lady (3): (French)

Yogeśvara: When we say Kṛṣṇa, are we speaking about God or an incarnation of God? How to define it?

Prabhupāda: No, God Himself.

Lady (4): (French)

Yogeśvara: Then what is the meaning of the word ātmā?

Prabhupāda: Ātmā means also God. Ātmā means this body. Ātmā means this mind. Ātmā means the soul, and ātmā means also God. Ātmā means the active principle which is working. Just like in you the ātmā is there, therefore your body is moving. Similarly, the active principle of the whole cosmic manifestation is God.

Room Conversation with devotees about Twelfth Canto Kali-yuga, and Conversation with Guest -- June 15, 1974, Paris:

Prabhupāda: Yes.

hrasva-kāyā mahāhārā

bhūry-apatyā gata-hriyaḥ

śaśvat kaṭuka-bhāṣiṇyaś

caurya-māyoru-sāhasāḥ

Patiṁ tyakṣyanti nirdravyaṁ bhṛtyā apy akhilottamam. "The natural tendency will be to give up, divorce, husband, especially when he has no sufficient money." The wife will divorce. Or the husband has no sex power. The wife... The divorce case takes place in two: when the sex indulgence is not very good, and when the husband has no money. Here it is:

vāso 'nna-pāna-śayana-

vyavāya-snāna-bhūṣaṇaiḥ

hīnāḥ piśāca-sandarśā

bhaviṣyanti kalau prajāḥ

"In the Kali-yuga, the general public, having no residence, vāsa," you see. I was surprised when I saw in the beginning that they are lying down on the street in the Bowery. They have no place. They pay one dollar, and the Lion's... What is that?

Satsvarūpa: Salvation Army.

Prabhupāda: No, no, no. The Lions...

Yogeśvara: Lion's Club?

Prabhupāda: Lion's Range, or something. They give shelter at night. They pay one dollar and lie down. And morning, they go away. There I have seen many signboards in Bowery Street.

Reporters Interview -- June 29, 1974, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: That is very... Otherwise... If the living entity is equal to the Supreme Being, then... Suppose you are a living entity. You could speak everything of what is going on in others' mind or body. You cannot say what I am thinking. I cannot say what you are thinking. Therefore I or you are not all-pervading. We are limited. And that is living entity. This is a very nice example. Go on.

Satsvarūpa: "But if the constitution of the living entity is accepted as being the minute part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, then automatically he becomes a controlled living entity under a supreme energy or power. This is his constitutional position. Therefore if he remains as he is created in that natural position, he can attain..."

Prabhupāda: Yes. We are created as being controlled. So instead of aspiring to become controller, if we remain controlled, that is our natural position. But some rascals, they are trying to become controller, "I am... By meditation I have become God." But if you are a God, then how you have become dog? This is going on. The cheating, the so-called swamis. Do they not say, "I am God?" Do they not say? "I am God. You are God. Everyone God."

Morning Walk at Marina del Rey -- July 12, 1974, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Only?

Svarūpa Dāmodara: But a... Big, big people were invited and actually he didn't walk. He fell down in the water.

Bali Mardana: Maybe Kṛṣṇa took his power away.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He was almost beaten. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: The same thing...

Svarūpa Dāmodara: He said he missed something.

Prabhupāda: So many birds are floating on the sea. Nobody's interested. But one rascal will advertise that "I can walk." They purchase five hundred rupees ticket. (laughter) (pause) People want to see magic.

Jayatīrtha: Yes.

Prabhupāda: And if somebody can show magic, then he becomes God.

Morning Walk at Marina del Rey -- July 14, 1974, Los Angeles:

Bali Mardana: And His representative.

Prabhupāda: Yes. The whole thing is managed by the law of gravitation, but when Kṛṣṇa lifted the hill, there was no weight. He's not conditioned by the law of gravity. He can lift up. We cannot do because we are conditioned. And when they cannot understand God's inconceivable power, they think it is all mythology. Because he is a rascal, he thinks Kṛṣṇa also rascal.

Bali Mardana: They try to put Kṛṣṇa within the framework of their own...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Avajānanti māṁ mūḍhā mānuṣīṁ tanum āśritam (BG 9.11). Because Kṛṣṇa is kindly become visible to our eyes, these rascals immediately take Him as one of us. By His kindness He's coming to be visible by us, to listen Him, His instructions, but these mūḍhās will take Him as ordinary human being. Mūḍhā nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam.

Room Conversation -- August 12, 1975, Paris (with French translator):

Prabhupāda: So the God, He is also with me always as friend. So one, it is said in the Upaniṣad, there are two birds in one tree. The two birds means I, individual soul, and God, the Supreme Soul. The individual soul is limited within this body. And God is everywhere, in every body, in every atomic particle, everywhere. Because I am individual soul, I can understand my bodily pains and pleasure. But I cannot understand your bodily pains and pleasure. But God, being all-pervading, He can understand my pains and pleasure, He can understand your pains and pleasure, He can understand cats' and dogs' pains and..., everyone. This is the difference between me and God. Sometimes they mistake, because God is also within this body, I am also within this body, therefore they think that there is no other individual soul than God, therefore I am God. So if I am God, then you are also God. And if there is more than one God, there is not God. God is one. There cannot be two. So if I think I am God, then everyone is also God, so God becomes plural, so there is not God. God is one. Therefore, God is great, we are small. In quality we are one. Just like the president and the citizen, as man they are one. But in power, the citizen and the president, they are different. So these things can be understood if one is sober and very great thinker: they can understand that God is situated with me, He can help me also.

Room Conversations -- September 10, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That is a fact. But this higher class and lower class will continue to exist. Even it is existing in communistic countries. That cannot..., you cannot stop in this material world. The tendency is that everyone is thinking that he shall be the best enjoyer, best enjoyer. So this is called struggle for existence. Naturally, this higher class and lower class will remain. You cannot stop it. Even in communistic country, this Khrushchev was driven away. He was taking all advantages for his family, for himself. As soon as he got the post, he misused it. He gave his son-in-law very big post, his family members. That was detected, and he was charged that "You are using your influence, nepotism." Therefore, he was driven away. So this natural tendency, as soon as one gets power, he will try to utilize it. This psychology you cannot stop in the material world. That is not possible. That sacrificing spirit, that "My life is dedicated to Kṛṣṇa," then it is possible. Otherwise, as soon as one will get some position and power, he will try to utilize it for his personal benefit. How you can stop it? It is like if you try to make the lion nonviolent. Is it possible? Why lion? Even an ant is violent. Even an ant it is violent. As soon as it gets opportunity, it will bite you. So this tendency of artificial supremacy means material life. That is material life. So how you can stop it? That separation is going on. You see in the spiritual life also. My Godbrothers, they are trying to suppress me. They are writing articles that in foreign countries these things..., Ratha-yātrā is going on, so many temples have been, but they will never mention my name. They have suppressed. They want to... They write articles in such a way that Bon Mahārāja has done so much and they have done so much, and my name is not mentioned. This spirit, "Oh, this man is going so high."

Room Conversations -- September 10, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Bhukti means ordinary karmīs want to enjoy in this material world. And mukti, they also want "I shall become God, I shall become one with God." That means "I shall become God." One with God means I'll become. Bhukti-mukti and siddhi. The yogis, they want to show some magic power and gain. Just like this rascal is doing, (indistinct) Baba. He has some yogic siddhi, so he has some (indistinct). Otherwise what is the attraction? He is a most wretched man, always he's smoking, and he sleeps too long, no regulation of life. But people are attracted because they have been captivated that "If I pay him one lakh, I shall get two lakhs." This is the propaganda. It is a..., what is called, gambling. You put one rupee, and if you are successful you will get four rupees. Siddhi. Because material world, they think "If I get more money, then it is perfection." Everywhere, the whole world is thinking-nationwise, individual—how to become. You will find in Europe the same propensity. Napoleon is trying to make Paris the most opulent city in Europe. Or Englishmen, Gladstone and others, they are trying to make England, London, most opulent city in the world. Similarly, czar was very accomplished. (indistinct) it is burst out into war. So we see the propensity. In Paris, the Place Concorde, so many beautiful buildings are there for museum, how they have conquered. In Rome, how they have conquered over Egypt, that pyramid they have brought. You have been in Rome?

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1975, Tokyo:

Prabhupāda: Ah, jagad āhur anīśvaram (BG 16.8). There is no God, it has come automatically by interaction. But even it is so, how the interaction is taking place? That is intelligence. Interaction, just like acid and alkali. Just like oil and caustic soda. These are two chemicals and mixing them, interaction, the result is soap. Accepting this principle, but there must be a mixer, a person who is mixing. Otherwise, how the soap and oil is being mixed? The soap is there and the oil is there and the caustic soda is also there, that is material ingredient. But they are not coming together automatically. That is not possible. Where is the evidence? There are so many soap factories, and let them keep oil and caustic soda and there is no question of labor, let them become soap. Where is that evidence? But these rascals say like that. Aparaspara sambhūtam. Interaction of the two things. But where is the interaction of two things unless it is arranged by some third element? Where is the evidence? So these are foolish theories, that there is no God, things are taking place automatically and things are coming out, these are all foolish theories. There is no evidence. Pramāṇa, there must be evidence. Otherwise... Just like science means simply not to see observation that things are taking place, but experiment. It must be substantiated by experiment. Just like theoretically everyone knows that two chemicals, soda and alkali, mixes together and there is interaction, effervescence. But who is mixing the soda and alkali, er, alkali and acid? There must be. Therefore the answer is there in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ suyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). "Under My superintendence." That is God. Under God's superintendence things are coming. Parasya śaktiḥ vividhaiva śruyate. He has got many multi powers and energies, they are working. Just like in nowadays electronic. You type your "a" and thousand miles away another typewriter will strike immediately "a", is it not? It is called, what is called?

Room Conversation -- January 27, 1975, Tokyo:

Prabhupāda: Teletype, yes. You push here "a" and the other end the "a" will immediately strike. There is no need of another person typing. But how it is being done? There is electronic arrangement by higher scientist. Not that, ordinary typewriter will not, no. Suppose if you keep one typewriter at your brother's place and you push it here, will it strike there? (laughter) Why? Because there is no arrangement. There is no arrangement. So these are common sense but the rascals will not understand. That without a touch of the living entity nothing can be done. The supreme living entity is Kṛṣṇa. Therefore it is said mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ suyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). "I am the cause of the material energy working." Parasya śaktiḥ vividhaiva śruyate. There is parasya śaktiḥ, now who can explain how this flower has come into existence? That is same thing. The energy of Kṛṣṇa is working. Just like you want to paint one nice flower, so you have to take the brush and the color and you have to endeavor. Not that automatically coming, this beautiful flower. So how do you think this beautiful flower has come automatically? This is foolishness. There is also the brush, the paint, but it is so perfect that just like you cannot see how the other typewriter is striking. You cannot say it is automatically striking. There is arrangement. But this arrangement you do not understand. Therefore you are foolish, you are thinking that this typewriter is striking automatically. It is not automatically. Here the other typewriter it is stroken and there is electric arrangement and it is striking. So you have to understand like... That is sura. And asura, they will say, "No, there is no God. It is taking automatically, it is going on," This is foolishness. The asura means foolish, first-class foolish, that's all. Why it has become so? That is explained here. That they do not know how to behave, nāpi cācāraḥ. Na satyaṁ teṣu vidyate, neither they know what is the actual truth. They are defective themself and they are explaining in the defective way that so many rascal chemists they say that the chemical evolution is the cause of life. What is this nonsense? Chemical evolution, you get the chemicals and make a experiment and produce life. Then your proposal is all right that by chemical evolution there is life. No, that is not possible. You have got all the chemicals. Why don't you revive a dead man by injecting chemicals again into life, where is your power? So why do you talk foolishly like that? This should be challenged that "You are foolish number one." Actually it so happened in California.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, other Guests and Disciples -- February 12, 1975, Mexico:

Devotee (1): Most of the people are still ignoring God. They are so weak-willed. They are so weak-willed that they are easily swayed by, you know, when somebody comes and claims that...

Prabhupāda: Well, if one is weak, he may be infected by some disease. It requires some resisting power. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that, your answer, that "Only the fortunate person, they can get the shelter of bona fide spiritual master." Kona bhāgyavān jīva. Not all, kona. Kona means some.

Devotee (1):. Some, yes. Kona bhāgyavān...

Prabhupāda: Jīva. So as there are bhagavān—somebody is rich, somebody is poor; this is also due to fortune or misfortune—similarly, if one is spiritually fortunate he gets a bona fide spiritual master.

Guest (2): Do you have any opinions about some of the other Indian masters who have been...

Prabhupāda: That I have already said, that unless one is bona fide servant of God, he cannot become master.

Guest (2): I mean specific people like Guru Maharaji.

Prabhupāda: So Guru Maharaji says that he is God himself. Then he's a bogus. How he can be God? God is so cheap? So only the foolish person will accept him. Those who have no knowledge.

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, other Guests and Disciples -- February 12, 1975, Mexico:

Prabhupāda: Sai Baba, he also says, "I am Bhagavān." Therefore he's bogus. How you can say yourself that you are Bhagavān, God? What is your power? What you have shown? And this is cheap. Now, supposing Sai Baba is God. So people accept him God, why? Because he shows some jugglery. He creates little gold. Is it not? So if, by creating gold, he is God, then there is bigger God who has created gold mine. Why shall I go to this tiny god? I must go to the big God who has created gold mine. This is common sense. But foolish people, they have no common sense even. Therefore it is called mūḍhā. Mūḍhā nābhijānāti mām ebhyaḥ param avyayam. Tribhir guṇamayair bhāvair mohita, mūḍhā nābhijānāti. Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Just like mostly people take: "The nature is all in all." The scientist, they take nature. But nature is matter. So where is our experience—the matter is working automatically? Where is our experience? Hm? Matter... Does matter work automatically? What is your opinion?

Hanumān: It's a chain of reaction.

Prabhupāda: Reaction. First of all there must be beginning of action, then reaction.

Room Conversation with Woman Sanskrit Professor -- February 13, 1975, Mexico:

Professor: No, I said old tradition in India has been going on into argument itself.

Prabhupāda: No, argument you can go on, but if you want to know the truth it will not be attained by argument because argument is also within your thinking power: thinking, feeling, willing. So if your thinking, feeling, willing is imperfect, what is the use of your argument? What is the use of your so-called advancement of knowledge? Basically, if the senses, knowledge acquiring senses, are imperfect, then how you can get perfect knowledge?

Professor: Well, then what do we with all techniques, all systems, that have been developed? I am thinking only India, I am not thinking other places, and all the old tradition, since Śaṅkara onwards, of different ways to think, to study, to go deeply to all these relations between...

Prabhupāda: Śaṅkara has interpreted. Śaṅkara has interpreted by his limited knowledge. So that is not perfect knowledge. Therefore we don't accept Śaṅkara's philosophy.

Room Conversation with Metaphysics Society -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Guest (Hṛdayānanda): He said that you have said that God expands, but this implies that God modifies Himself or changes.

Prabhupāda: No. That is God. He can expand unlimitedly; still, He remains as He is. That is, means, unlimited. Just like if you have got hundred dollars in your pocket, then if it is spent, one dollar, one dollar, one dollar, then ultimately you become zero. But about God it is said, pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya pūrṇam eva avaśiṣyate (Iso Invocation). That means you take hundred dollars. Still, the hundred dollar is there. Similarly, God as He is, He can expand Himself in millions and millions separately; still, He is the same million. That is called God. If we take God in our conception, that "I have got hundred dollars. I spend hundred dollars. It is zero," but God is not like that. God can expand Himself as God unlimitedly; still, He remains the same. There is another nice example. Just like you take one candle and you lit up another candle, you lit up another candle, another candle and millions of candle, but this candle remains the same powerful, and all the candles lit up, they are also same power. But for our understanding, we take the original candle as first candle, the next as second candle, the third, fourth, fifth, millions. But each candle is equally powerful, and the original candle is still there. So by this expansion, God does not diminishes. That is the meaning of God, and that is the meaning of unlimited.

Room Conversation with Metaphysics Society -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But still, in the essence, in the essence means the spirit; that God is the supreme spirit, I am the particle spirit. So far spiritual constitution is concerned, God and the living entity, one. Both of them are spiritual. But the power, God's power and your power, is not the same. It is said in the Bible, so far I remember, "God said, 'Let there be creation.' There was creation." Can you do that, "Let there be creation" and create something? Therefore when God says, "I am" and you say "I am," that is different. So "I" means person. As person, He is also person. And "I" means persons. You are also person. But that person and you person is different. He is almighty, all-powerful. You have no... You have limited power.

Lady (Hṛdayānanda): This is Māyāvādī philosophy. She's saying that when she says, "I am," she doesn't mean "I" in the sense of the lower self but in the higher self.

Prabhupāda: That we have admitted. God is spirit; I am spirit. So both of them "I." But God's power and your power is not equal. God said, "Let there be creation." There was creation. But you say, "Let there be capati," there will be no capati unless you work. (laughter) You have to work for it.

Room Conversation with three Trappist Monks, Psychologists from the University of Georgia, and Atlanta Lawyer, Michael Green -- March 1, 1975, Atlanta:

Guest (1): ...at the present time in this country to 10% of the people. They don't have jobs. They are let out. They can't...

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, every country, every country. Now, just like you are highly educated. Your country could not give you service. You are coming here. And that is śūdra. One who cannot live independently, he is śūdra. Paricaryātmakaṁ karyaṁ śūdra-karma svabhāva-jam (BG 18.44). Kalau śūdra-sambhavaḥ. In this age, everyone is practically śūdra, because nobody can live independently. So we are producing mass śūdras. Therefore it is in chaotic condition. The Communist is the last word of the śūdras. The Communist philosophy is that "We are worker. We have all the power. We must have all the power." And that they are doing. And because they do not want to obey any authority, therefore they are denying existence of God. This is the tendency of the modern society. Not only they do not know what is God, and they are trying to disobey the orders of God. So practically there is no religion. And without religion human society is animal society. Dharmeṇa hīnā pasubhiḥ samānāḥ. "Human being without any ideas of religion, God, he is no better than animal."

Room Conversation with Bernard Manischewitz -- March 5, 1975, New York:

Prabhupāda: So this is the Vedic rituals. Another animal sacrifice is there just to make experiment of the Vedic mantra. An animal is sacrificed in the altar, and he is given again life, rejuvenated life. An old cow sacrificed, and he gets a youth, young (body). If the animal comes out alive, then it is to be considered that the Vedic mantras are being recited correctly. Not to kill and eat, no, no, that is not the purpose. Just like in laboratories, they make some experiment on the animal, similarly this is like that. The animal is sacrificed, and he is rejuvenated in young life. Old life is sacrificed, and he gets a new body. Then it is to be understood that in this ritualistic ceremony the mantras are chanted correctly. That is their power. But because in this age such learned brāhmaṇas are not available, therefore it is stopped. No more. There is a verse in the Purāṇas,

aśvamedhaṁ gavālambhaṁ

sannyāsaṁ pala-paitṛkam

devareṇa sutotpattiṁ

kalau pañca vivarjayet

(CC Adi 17.164)

In this age of Kali, five things should be avoided: one is performing sacrifice by offering cows; performing sacrifice by offering horse; and oblation offering to the forefathers with meat; and then to get child by the husband's younger brother. Maybe it was practiced formerly. According to Vedic rituals, the husband's wife... That is permanent relation; there is no divorce, nothing of the sort. But in case of the husband being sick or dead, the women was allowed, if she has no children, to get children by the husband's younger brother. Devareṇa. That is also now not allowed. So these five things are not allowed in this age, Kali-yuga: sacrifice offering cows, sacrifice offering horse, sannyāsa—renouncing family life—sannyāsa order, offering oblations with meat to the forefathers, and begetting children through the husband's younger... These five items are forbidden.

Room Conversation with Reporter -- March 9, 1975, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes, social work, this is the best social work. People are in ignorance, and we are giving them knowledge. Is it not the best social work? If you keep the man in ignorance and if you give him something... Just like your child. You simply give him to eat but no education. Then what is the benefit? Is that very good nice work, that you give your children nice food to become robust but no education? Is that very good nice work? People are, in this human form of life, especially meant for understanding God. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is the Vedānta-sūtra. So they are keeping them in darkness and teaching them technology, how to make cycle. That's all. The life is meant for understanding God, and they have been educated for making cycle and sewing machine. This is going on. Therefore there will be disaster. It is already there. Just like in America or any Western country, they have manufactured so many cars, and now they are flattering the Arabians, "Please give us oil." You see? Power crisis. And if they stop manufacturing, there is unemployment. And if they increase car, there is power shortage. So this dilemma, this modern civilization will have to meet this dilemma because they are going against the laws of God.

Morning Walk -- March 11, 1975, London:

Brahmānanda: It is difficult to come to that understanding, that actually, those who are the leaders are not to be trusted.

Prabhupāda: Yes, leaders means government men. That is described. They are all thieves and rogues, anywhere. Dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. Dasyu. Dasyu means plunderers, rogues. Unless you become a rogue you cannot go to the government. You cannot... Any honest man cannot stay with these government men. That is not possible at the present age. Any government. Unless... Just like first-class rogue, your Nixon, he became the president. Because he was a first-class rogue, he became the president. So unless you are first-class rogue, you cannot stay within the circle of government men. Rājanya dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. And their business will be to eat up the vital force of the people. Bhakṣayiṣyanti prajā sarve rājanya dasyu-dharmabhiḥ. This is the statement. And people will be harassed. On account of their godlessness, they will be harassed by three things: famine, no rain, and taxation. Taxation by the government, and there will be no rain, there will be famine, no food, and they will be so much embarrassed that they will give up their family and go away, gacchanti giri-kananam, will go, enter into the hills and forest, giving up their hearth and home. This is Kali-yuga. And this is due to their godlessness. On account of this, then the democracy, means anyone, brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra, anyone who becomes powerful, he will capture the government post. So the śūdras, they are now powerful. Śūdras. Industry means śūdra. So they will capture the governmental power. Just like Communist.

Room Conversation with Canadian Ambassador to Iran -- March 13, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: He said or the governor said? Anyway, it is... Mr. Casey from Australia—he was governor of Bengal—he said, I think, that thing. His study was like that. He was a politician, that's all.

Ambassador: But God uses whatever material is there and He used him.

Prabhupāda: No, it was God's desire. You see? Without His desire, otherwise how such a vast British power could be driven away by the noncooperation movement? Of course, it was very nicely planned because the Britishers were ruling over India by the cooperation of the Indian.

Ambassador: Yes.

Prabhupāda: So when that cooperation was withdrawn, naturally they could not... They were trying to the last point, but when the Subhas Bose's organization, INA... You have studied that Indian history. Yes. INA. Indian National Army. So this National Army was formed by Subhas Candra Bose outside India with the cooperation of Hitler and Tojo. He's formed that, what is called, Indian government outside India, the INA, the soldiers... The INA soldiers means all the soldiers that were arrested in the battlefield, they were given to Subhas Candra Bose, either by the Japanese or by the Germans. So the soldiers took this opportunity; they voluntarily surrendered to the enemy. So when the Britishers understood that the soldiers, Indian soldiers, are now noncooperating, then they decided, "No, no more. It is not possible." So they voluntarily withdrew, that Sir Sirpiting(?) Lawrence, the secretary of state for India. Then they voluntarily settled up. And they settled up means the last parting kick was partition-Pakistan and India. And they partitioned in such a way that these two people will fight everlong. That is going on. They are very good politicians.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: That I can understand, that sometimes you realize that you are one, and sometimes you realize that you are different. That means simultaneously you are one and different from God. This is the conclusion. Acintya-bhedābheda. This is the philosophy, acintya, inconceivable, one and different, one because we are one in quality, and different in quantity. That is our position. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānṁ. The Vedic information is like that, that He is the Supreme Being amongst all beings. He is also being, we are also being, but He is the Supreme Being. So as being, we are one, but as Supreme and subordinate, we are different. This is the conclusion. As being, living being, we are one. That is not very difficult. Just like in your country the king, the Shah, he is also a being and you are also a being. But he is the supreme being in this country. Although as human being you are equal, but so far his power, his position is concerned, he is different. Similarly, as being, we are one with God, but so far the power and position is concerned, He is too big, the great. We are subordinate. This is our position. That is the right conclusion.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Guest: They say powerful but what about...

Prabhupāda: Yes, then we have to know this powerful, not only the power. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Mayādhyakṣeṇa prakṛtiḥ sūyate sa-carācaram (BG 9.10). In another place, sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir eka chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni bibharti durgā (Bs. 5.44). Durgā is power. Power is in... What kind of power? Sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir eka. She can create, she can maintain and she can destroy, so powerful. But this power, sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir eka chāyeva (Bs. 5.44), is working just like shadow. Just like here is shadow. I am moving this hand; the shadow is moving. Shadow is not independently moving. Therefore this gigantic power, material energy, is working under the direction of Kṛṣṇa. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, mayādhyakṣeṇa: (BG 9.10) "under My superintendence." So we are allured with the power, but who is manipulating this power we do not know. That is God.

Room Conversation with Yoga Student -- March 14, 1975, Iran:

Prabhupāda: But that is everyone's dilemma, that "What is this power?" The scientists, the (sic:) physists, they are seeing the power. The power is working and energy is working. But how it is working, that is further enquiry.

Guest: I have three points. First of all I have nothing... I have seen nothing in Bhagavad-gītā, although it is a work of the most beautiful of all these books which are attributed to God and are supposed to be speaked in the name of God. It is one of the beautiful book among these (Parsi?). But sincerely there is nothing in Bhagavad-gītā about God which you cannot find similar passage, a passage similar to it in Koran or in other teachings. That's my first point. The second point is that if we believe to God and we believe that the God has spoken only through Bhagavad-gītā to, thus, a people who live in a given country, then we are going to have a very narrow-minded God who doesn't love all human beings...

Prabhupāda: No. No there. Here, here I impress...

Guest: He has bestowed all His love to a given people. And my third point is that if we believe God as a life force or who must be discovered by a human being and the human being who has to proceed toward this truth, then also we have no reason to confine this into one people.

Indian man: Swamiji, I may take your leave.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Why you are going soon?

Indian man: I have to go still far off.

Prabhupāda: Oh, all right. Jaya. Jaya.

Conversation with Devotees on Theology -- April 1, 1975, Mayapur:

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The answer to his point is that just as there's a president of the United States, so when someone is talking about the president, according to how intimate that person is, you discuss different subject matters. For example, if the person is just a common person, a regular person, you may discuss about the president's powers in the government. But when you meet someone who actually is intimately connected with the president, then you describe the president's family, how the president's family is doing, what is the president doing in his time of relaxation, etc. So similarly, Jesus was speaking to persons who were not very intimate with God. They were not so much spiritually advanced. Therefore, for those persons, simply the power and glory of God is mentioned in the Bible. But Kṛṣṇa, the description of Kṛṣṇa in the Bhāgavatam, is meant for the pure devotees. And for them the very detailed, intimate description of Kṛṣṇa is given there.

Pañcadraviḍa: Nirmatsarāṇām.

Prajāpati: A very major thing happenned to the Christian tradition in about 400 A.D. Up until that time, as best our records are, Christianity was very much like Kṛṣṇa consciousness, very much like our movement. But at that time it became the official religion of the Roman Empire under Constantine, and it took on many of the paraphernalia of the old Roman demigod worship, and at that time it became a whole...

Prabhupāda: Just to make it favorable for your government, for the government.

Morning Walk -- April 2, 1975, Mayapur:

Rāmeśvara: Against Indian cultu...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Britishers made so many attempts that "Indians were uncivilized, and we have come here to make them civilized."

Rāmeśvara: So for colonialism.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Just to... Because there are other powers, so they are envious that "Why these rascals, they occupy India?" So, so just to support this occupation, I mean to say, yes, occupation, and..., they made so many propaganda. Even during Gandhi's movement, they engaged one American woman to write a book "Mother India." "Mother India." "Mother India." So the... In... That "Mother India" is simply full of stories where there are so defects. Suppose a priest in the temple is attached with some woman, like that, so many stories like... So one Punjabi, what is his name? Gobha, (?) Gobha. He counteracted that book—"Uncle Sam." (laughter) So these things are going on.

Madhudviṣa: Is that where that name came from, "Uncle Sam"?

Prabhupāda: Uncle Sam is the American word?

Trivikrama: Yes, yes.

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: That is their foolishness. That is their foolishness. They are thinking God a person like me, like himself. That is foolishness. They cannot conceive that a person can become so powerful than myself. That is the defect. A person has acintya-śakti, acintya-śakti, inconceivable power. Now, just like you are person. You cut your hair. It is growing. Do you know how it is growing?

Haṁsadūta: No.

Prabhupāda: Then? Even it is beyond your conception, what to speak of others. But it is growing. It is... If there is any scar or if the nail is broken some way or other, it will come out. But... You cannot manufacture it by conceiving. But it is coming out. That means within you there is an inconceivable power. So if you have got, an ordinary human being, so much inconceivable power, how much God has got inconceivable power. That is God.

Haṁsadūta: In Los Angeles, you called it mystic power, that every living creature has some mystic power.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Every living creature.

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1975, Mayapur:

Trivikrama: Citric acid.

Prabhupāda: Yes, lemon juice. Acintya-śakti, inconceivable power. The cow, eating grass, producing milk—this is inconceivable power. Can you produce milk from the grass? But how the cow is producing? Hmm? Answer this. You eat grass and produce milk. Give your wife grass and let her produce milk. (break) Your question is answered? Eh?

Satsvarūpa: Well, it's answered, but they would say that our saying that... You said... I said, "Where did God come from?" You say that is the definition of God.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Satsvarūpa: But then they can say...

Prabhupāda: Everything comes from God, but He's self-sufficient. That is God. That is the searching out God, that you search... You... Wherefrom you came? From your father. Then your father comes from his father, from his father. Go on, go on. When you reach one person—he does not come from any father; he is self-sufficient—then He's God. That is the definition of... If God also comes like you, from a father, then how He is God? He's like you. That is the difference.

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1975, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Trivikrama: So that they don't have to be accountable for their activities.

Prabhupāda: Certainly. And they are being accountable. If they become so dull-headed, then God's power will make him a tree: "Stand here. Stand up here for three thousand years. That's all. You are so dull-headed that you have no sense, so become a tree so that even if you are cut, you cannot protest. You have no sense, senses." That is the punishment. "If you don't eat prasādam, then eat stool." This is the arrangement. So they are being punished. But they are so dull-headed, they cannot understand.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: With their science, they've been able to build so many buildings and roads and bridges and so many things which they consider wonderful.

Prabhupāda: And what you'll do with the buildings? You'll be kicked out. Your building will remain there. Your spoiling labor will remain there, but you will be kicked out. You cannot live there. Who is managing these affairs? "So you have constructed a building? All right, I kick you out. Get out!" Then what is the purpose of building? If you know that "I am constructing this high building, and tomorrow somebody will kick me out," then what is the use? Have you made it insured that you'll not be kicked out?

Viṣṇujana: No.

Prabhupāda: Then it is useless waste of time.

Morning Walk -- April 3, 1975, Mayapur:

Rāmeśvara: You said that the... You pointed to a chunk and said that it is not moving. But they're...

Prabhupāda: But if you..., then you are also moving. Everything is moving because you are on the earth. When the train moves, everything moves. But how it moves, train? That you have to search out. Train is not automatically moving. Some power, engine, is moving it. That is blind vision, that "Train is moving." How the train is moving? You have to see. That is childish. Train is not moving. The engine is moving the train. And how the engine is moving? The coal, fire, is moving. Then wherefrom the coal come? In this way, you have to search out. You'll find, ultimately, the supreme cause is Kṛṣṇa. Nothing is moving without Kṛṣṇa's indication. That is the explanation,

Mayādhyakṣeṇa: (BG 9.10) "Under My superintendence..." When Kṛṣṇa desires, this big, big chunk will move in the air. Recently, Madhudviṣa Mahārāja said, the buses were flying in the sky.

Brahmānanda: Buses?

Prabhupāda: Yes. In Darwin.

Devotees: Oh, in that, that cyclone, cyclone...

Prabhupāda: Yes. And whole city smashed.

Rāmeśvara: They don't know how to search beyond the microscopic level, microscope level. They think that the atoms have their own energy. They don't know the process of searching...

Prabhupāda: The energy is: Kṛṣṇa is there. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham (Bs. 5.35). The asura's business is to avoid Kṛṣṇa. That is their business. And our business is to establish everywhere Kṛṣṇa. That is the difference between them and ourself.

Room Conversation -- April 4, 1975, Mayapur:

Devotee (1): Russia.

Prabhupāda: No. The Bangladesh, they were Bengalis. Although the whole Pakistan, including Bangladesh and the other part, West Pakistan, East Pakistan, Bangladesh... So actually, Bangladesh is bigger than West Pakistan. They should have taken the government, majority. But the West Pakistan, by force they were ruling. They are not majority. So after all, they are Bengalis, maybe Muslim. They're intelligent than these Punjabis. Punjabis, they have got bodily strength, not brain. So these Bengalis, in Mujjhamat Raman, that was his demands, that: "We are majority. Why they should govern us? We should govern over them." This is the movement. So, but they're already in power. So how to throw them out of power? So he negotiated in India, that: "You help us to separate from..." And India's interest is that Pakistan becomes weak by separation, that is India's interest. So India agreed to help them. How to help? They organized a false, er, soldiers. You know? What is called? Bahini. Mean a freedom soldier. They organized freedom soldier. And India consulted Russia. Russia was friendly, that: "We want to help Bangladesh." So they said: "Yes, you help. If there is fight, then we shall help you." This was the... So these bahini, sanan bahini, sandana bahini, or something like that, they organized, "freedom soldiers." The freedom soldier means Indian soldiers. They entered Bangladesh because East Bengal, West Bengal. And they started this freedom soldier. But this is Indian soldier.

Evening Discussion -- May 6, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: Usually people don't have a very clear idea of what spiritual life is. So when they see someone who is a good musician or a good artist or something like that, sometimes they automatically think, "Oh, he must be spiritual, because he is so good at this. No one else can do it. He must be some spiritual power." So therefore someone like Ravi Shankar, a lot of people either they become envious or they worship him as being an incarnation or something like that.

Prabhupāda: That is also stated, yad yad vibhūtimat sattvaṁ.

Paramahaṁsa:

yad yad vibhūtimat sattvaṁ

śrīmad ūrjitam eva vā

tat tad evāvagaccha tvaṁ

mama tejo 'ṁśa-sambhavam

"Know that all beautiful, glorious, and mighty creations spring from but a spark of My splendor."

Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (offer obeisances) (end)

Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Śrutakīrti: Someone must turn it on and off.

Prabhupāda: Yes. There is no such automatic machine. It is impossible to prove.

Gaṇeśa: But we can see the operator of these small machines, Śrīla Prabhupāda, we cannot see the operator of this big machine.

Prabhupāda: Have you seen the operator in the power house?

Gaṇeśa: No.

Prabhupāda: Then? Do you think the powerhouse is going on?

Paramahaṁsa: Well we could see him. We could go, we could drive there right now and see him.

Prabhupāda: Yes, you can see. You can go to Kṛṣṇa and see Him. That requires qualification.

Paramahaṁsa: That's not as easy.

Prabhupāda: No, it is very easy. It is simply, as we are teaching our students, just become a devotee, offer namaskār, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto, always think of Him, and you will go to Him. It is not at all difficult. Bahavo jñāna-tapasā pūtā mad-bhāvam āgatāḥ. Bahavo, many, did come to Me. How? Jñāna-tapasā, by knowledge and tapasya, being purified, they come to Me. Kṛṣṇa says. Why you are disappointed? You can go. Kṛṣṇa is open. Te 'pi yānti parāṁ gatim. Striya śūdra tathā vaiśya, even the women, less intelligent, the śūdra, vaiśya, they can come. Where is the difficulty? Even if you are born very lowest, you can go. Kṛṣṇa is open to everyone. Simply you become qualified. That's all. And what is the qualification? Man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru (BG 18.65), just always think of Me, become My devotee, offer your respects to Me, and man-manā, worship Me. Four things. That... We are opening this temple (in Melbourne) for this purpose, that you always think of Him, you worship Him, you offer obeisances to Him, and become His devotee. And then? Mām evaiṣyasi asaṁśayaḥ (BG 18.68), without a doubt you will come to Him. What is the difficulty? There is no difficulty.

Morning Walk -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Paramahaṁsa: If the operator of the powerhouse, he is operating and running the powerhouse, but it's not really necessary that we go and see him. We can simply enjoy the facilities offered by the powerhouse.

Prabhupāda: That's alright, but if you are intelligent enough, if you are a rascal fool, you cannot see, but if you are intelligent, then you'll be eager to: "Who is operating? Let me see?" That is the difference of intelligence. Dull, just like we read one story. One little boy he was beating on a drum. So, he became inquisitive, "Wherefrom the sound is coming? Somebody must be within it." He took a knife and cut it. This is intelligence. Wherefrom the sound is coming? He was beating-dum, dum, dum—he became inquisitive. That is intelligence. A dull student-coming, that's all. And intelligent, he tries to (find out), that is intelligence. Inquisitive. Intelligent boy will always enquire, "What is this, father? What is this father? Wherefrom the sound is coming?" That is intelligence. So, if one is very dull—just like cats and dogs, they cannot enquire. What is this machine? What is this behind? It is the human form of life—these enquiries should come. Otherwise he remains a cat and dog.

Room Conversation with Kim Cornish -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Similarly, this body, machine, is complete. And the soul is there, it is working nicely. The body is also a creation, and the universe is also a creation, and the brain which has created these things, He is complete. Therefore He has created these complete units. That is the idea. Pūrṇam idaṁ (Iso Invocation). Pūrṇaḥ means complete. And because He is complete, the Creator, He has no defect; therefore He can create everything complete. Pūrṇam idaṁ, pūrṇam adaḥ, pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate. And He is so complete that pūrṇasya pūrṇam ādāya, from the complete, if you take the whole complete, still He is complete. Here is a glass of water; I am drinking. Drinking part by part. And when it is finished, the water is finished, no more complete. But He is so complete, that just like the sun, the temperature is being distributed for million and millions of years, still it is full of temperature. Here, unless the electric power is there, it is not complete. But there is power in the sunshine. It is a reservoir of so much temperature and light, that in history millions and millions of years it is distributing, the seasonal changes are going on, the green foliage is coming again, the snow and rain is coming, so many things are going on account of temperature. Any machine is rolling, just like as soon as there is power the machine is rolling. In all machines, your bodily machine, my bodily machine, and electric machines and other powered machines—everything is going on. Pūrṇāt pūrṇam udacyate. And in spite of taking so much energy from the sun, it is still full of light and energy. This is one of the creations of the Supreme. Now how much perfect is the Supreme? Its one of the creations, sun, is maintaining the whole universe. And there are many millions of universes, and each of them has got a sun to conduct the business. And all these suns are created by somebody.

Room Conversation with Kim Cornish -- May 8, 1975, Perth:

Prabhupāda: Not perhaps. There is no question of perhaps. We want to speak factually.

Kim: But Patañjali says that siddhis, powers, can be produced by drugs, so perhaps...

Prabhupāda: Drugs are meant for medicinal purposes, not for drinking or taking generally. Every herb, every vegetable, is a drug meant for curing a particular disease. This is nature's gift. Just like if you cut your finger, you take little grass and take a little juice and apply it. It will act as tincturizing, immediately. They are meant for this purpose. These vegetable, drugs, are meant for when you are sick or disturbed, you can utilize. Not for intoxication. Just like opium. If you have severe type of dysentery, diarrhea, a little opium it will immediately cure. But opium is not meant for using as an intoxication. There is use of opium. Morphia, opium, they have got use at a certain time, not for using it for intoxication. That is foolish.

Morning Walk -- May 13, 1975, Perth:

Gaṇeśa: Thank you. Kṛṣṇa is the biggest cheat.

Prabhupāda: Yes, He is big in everything, but you should not imitate, because you are not as big as Kṛṣṇa. Tejīyasāṁ na doṣāya (SB 10.33.29). He is very powerful. Before His power, everything becomes vāṇīshed. He remains powerful. But you cannot do that. "Kṛṣṇa is biggest cheater; therefore I shall become a cheater." That is not good policy. Then you will be finished. Just like the example is given that Lord Śiva drank the ocean of poison, and if you drink a drop, you will die. You cannot imitate the most powerful. That is not possible.

Jayadharma: You told Madhudviṣa Swami once in Sydney a few years ago that actually you're the biggest cheater because you're stealing away all our māyā.

Prabhupāda: What is that? I am...

Paramahaṁsa: He says that once you told Madhudviṣa Swami that you are the best cheater because you are taking away all our māyā and making us devotees.

Prabhupāda: (laughs) Yes. That kind of cheating is very good. (pause) Christ also spoke about nivṛtti-mārga. "Thou shall not kill." Because they were practiced to kill, and still they are practiced to killing. The first nivṛtti, "Thou shall not kill." The same thing, "Thou shall not covet."

Morning Walk -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Madhudviṣa: When they go up in the space ship there is such a force holding the rocket ship down, they must have...

Prabhupāda: That is everything. Everything, everything will fall down on the ground, but the controlling power is the air. If the air is adjusted, then it will not fall down.

Madhudviṣa: That's why when they go into outer space they become weightless, they can float without any airplane.

Prabhupāda: That, what they're doing (indistinct). But we see that if you can make adjustment in the air, just like we see the heavy cloud bearing many million tons of water, they do not fall down, they float. Where is the law of gravity?

Amogha: (laughs) Hare Kṛṣṇa. You also give that example of those big birds.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Big, big birds, they carry elephant.

Madhudviṣa: We have not seen such a bird. (devotees laugh)

Prabhupāda: What you have seen? You have seen your father and mother, that's all. What you have seen? You are still in the womb of your mother. What you you have seen? You can simply falsely speculate, that's all. What you have seen? Are you seeing the stars now? Why you are not seeing? The stars are there, why you are not seeing?

Room Conversation with Jesuit -- May 19, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: I don't (indistinct) some men here, or the whole universal souls combined together, still they are finite. They're not infinite. Yes, multi-billions of zeroes cannot make one. So I don't say that, but the quality is there very minutely.

Jesuit: Imitation of the divine powers.

Prabhupāda: Not imitation, actually we have got. Just like, another example, gold and a particle of gold, a small fragmentary, that will be called gold, but not the gold equal to the mine.

Jesuit: No.

Prabhupāda: Therefore the philosophy is acintya-bhedābheda, inconceivable one and different simultaneously. One in quality, but different in quantity. God's power... I have got some creative power, and God has got creative power. So the creative power is there. But God has created millions of the planets that floating in the air and we have created a 747 airplane, we want to take more credit than God. That is our foolishness.

Jesuit: Oh, I say that is man's sin, if you like, is that he prides himself on his achievements.

Prabhupāda: That is false pride. The scientist, the modern scientists, they are taking false pride that there is no need of God, we are now creating...

Jesuit: Some of them are, not all...

Prabhupāda: Some of the fools, not all fools, but some of the fools declaring themselves as scientists, "There is no God."

Morning Walk -- May 21, 1975, Melbourne:

Madhudviṣa: And the demigods we cannot see. Like the demigods, the higher human species, we cannot see.

Prabhupāda: You, why do you believe on your seeing? That is the defect. That is the defect of the Westerners. They are very deficient; still they say, "I cannot see." What is your seeing power? Suppose if Nārada comes, some demigods come, but you cannot see. Just like when Lord Nṛsiṁha-deva appeared, Prahlāda was seeing. "Is your God here?" "Yes." And he could not see. So why do you believe so much on your seeing? You have to attain seeing power. That is very good example, Prahlāda... Hiraṇyakaśipu asking Prahlāda, "Where is your God?" "My God is everywhere." "He is on the pillar?" "Yes." So he was seeing, but he was not seeing. He became angry and broke the pillar. "Let me see, where is your God." This is the position. So one has to create the eyes to see things. Not that whatever eyes you have got you can see everything. No. Just like motorcar is being driven, a child is seeing that the car is running automatically. And the father is seeing, "No, there is driver."

Morning Walk -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Madhudviṣa: So how is material forcing something spiritual?

Prabhupāda: You have voluntarily accept her supremacy. Just like you have accepted some disease. So disease is forcing you. And if you cure, then it will not be able to force you. You infect some disease. Then you become forced by the disease to accept the miseries. But if you are not diseased, there is no question of force. If you become criminal, the police forces you. And if you are not criminal you have no business with the police. It is like this. Police control, controller—the controlling power upon me comes when I am criminal. Otherwise why police will control me? Therefore I voluntarily accept the control of police by my criminal desires. That is going on. That is material life.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Soldiers, they should be also trained up. They are being trained up. Kṣatriyas. Just read the kṣatriya...

Amogha:

śauryaṁ tejo dhṛtir dākṣyaṁ

yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam

dānam īśvara-bhāvaś ca

kṣātraṁ karma svabhāva-jam

(BG 18.43)

Translation: "Heroism power, determination, resourcefulness, courage in battle, generosity, and..."

Prabhupāda: Courage in battle.

Guest 2: American soldiers.

Prabhupāda: No, whoever may be. Not that I sit down in my armchair and I give direction. The poor soldiers are fighting. No. He should go. Courage. He should personally give direction, "Do like this." Who is doing that? The minister of defense is very comfortably sitting on his chair, and the poor soldiers are fighting. That is not required. He must go first of all: "Do like this." Just like in Battle of Kurukṣetra, Arjuna is in front; the other side, Duryodhana. The real fighters, they are face to face. Soldiers are assistant. Where is that? So they should be trained up. So unless he is by his nature very powerful, śauryam... What is that?

Amogha: Śauryam, heroism.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Amogha: There is a general in Africa who is very powerful, but he's demonic.

Prabhupāda: No, no. They should not be demonic. Other things are there. Śauryaṁ tejo...

Amogha: "Heroism, power, determination, resourcefulness, courage in battle, generosity, and leadership..."

Prabhupāda: Generosity.

Guest 2: So he hasn't got generosity.

Guest 3: No, he's got another one, insanity. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: Not insanity.

Guest 1: You can't substitute.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Everything is there. He must be at the same time... Although he is hero, he must be generous. Just like Alexander the Great. Perhaps you know the story. He arrested one thief. So when he was arrested and he was being judged by Alexander, the thief pleaded that "What is the difference between you and me? You are a great thief. I am a small thief." (laughter) So Alexander understood it and got him released, "Yes." (laughter) This is generosity. He must agree to the principle.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Prabhupāda: Oh yes.

Guest 1: They, we found out or the suggestion was... Because there were little power groups in that church that possibly the senior people don't know about, but they objected for some reason, which is very hard to understand.

Prabhupāda: In London we wanted to purchase one church that was not working. In London. But when we approached that priest, the in-charge, not directly to me but one of my disciples, he informed him that "I shall better set fire in this church. Still, I shall not give to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness."

Guest 1: That's one reason that the main religion has possibly become bad in the eyes of non-religious people when they hear something like that. Because you could assume that whatever religion, if a person was religious...

Prabhupāda: Religion means God. God is one.

Guest 1: ...that that should aid all religions. And the more Kṛṣṇas there are, the more other religious people might benefit. Yet they can't see it.

Prabhupāda: According to Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, religion means the law given by God. Just like law means the act given by the state. You cannot manufacture law, I cannot manufacture law. From that purport (?) give me. So Mr. Raymond has gone?

Devotee: Yes, yes.

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: So I will not believe them. That's all, finished. (laughter)

Devotee (3): They cannot see them.

Prabhupāda: What can you see, teeny eyes? What can you see? Can you see what is there on the other side of the sea? Then does it mean there is nothing? Your nonsense seeing. Why you are believing of seeing? Your seeing power is very, very limited. Why do you believe in seeing? That is childish, "I cannot see." What you can see? First of all, let us consider this point. You cannot see anything.

Paramahaṁsa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, people will be very surprised to find out that the moon is farther away from us than the sun when they read your..., when they read Fifth Canto.

Prabhupāda: But at least, they could not go there. Otherwise, why they are giving up this job? They could not go there. That's a fact. Their plan was to... They were selling land even on the moon planet.

Ambarīṣa: Selling land on the moon?

Prabhupāda: Yes. (laughter)

Morning Walk -- June 2, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Sending dog first of all?

Ambarīṣa: Yeah, mice and then monkeys and...

Prabhupāda: (break) ...desert. But here we find, within the desert, petrol. Why not get petrol there and solve your power problem. Can I not raise this question?

Ambarīṣa: How would they get it back from the moon?

Prabhupāda: There will be petrol. You take it.

Ambarīṣa: How would they get it back here?

Prabhupāda: As they are coming. They are going and coming. So let them go, and if the surface is desert, then find out oil within.

Paramahaṁsa: But their answer would be: "Well, even if we found oil, it would be impossible to bring it to the earth."

Indian man: They can make up tanks.

Prabhupāda: No, you can make devices, fill it up, and throw it. (laughter) (break) ...mad, you should give them mad suggestion. (laughter) (end)

Room Conversation with Yogi Bhajan -- June 7, 1975, Honolulu:

Devotee: "Power, determination..."

Prabhupāda: Power. He must have power, influence. Why he should beg vote, "Give me vote, give me vote, give me vote," begging? Where is power? If he is begging vote, where is power? Formerly the kings... Just like they used to take sword. "If you don't accept me, then I shall kill you." This is power. Śauryaṁ tejam...

Devotee: Dhṛtir, determination.

Prabhupāda: Determination, and yuddhe ca apalāyanam. Now when there is war, these politician will remain in their room safely. They will not go to the war. And why these people are voted for political post? Formerly the king would first of all stand. To the other side also, the king is there and this side also. The fight is going on. If the king is killed, then the victory is there. Yuddhe ca apalāyanam. The formula is there. So these classes of man should be on the administration, not anyone coward, nonsense, and by hook and crook they get some vote and take the political leader... How you will find peace? The fourth class is required. Just like in your body you have got brain, brain is required.

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: What is this nonsense scientific? That is... We reject immediately. What is scientific? A tiny brain, what is their science? Phene bare dhake nate ute. A snake catcher... There is a kind of snake which has no poison. So he cannot catch even that non-poisonous snake, and he's trying to catch one cobra. So these scientists, what is their value? What they have done anything contribution to the world for the benefit of the human society? They could not give any relief from the disease, relief from old age, relief from death or birth. These are the real problems. So what is their contribution? They have given some horseless carriage. Again there is problem of power. What is actually benefit they have done, that this is the benefit from the scientists? Anything they have done, there is counter disadvantage. This is simply waste of time. Our... We consider our human life is very valuable, and before the next death we should prepare ourself go back to home, back to Godhead. This is our philosophy. We cannot waste a minute time before the next death comes. That is our philosophy. So why should we waste our time, "Where is the moon? Where is sun?" Just have it gist idea, that's all. (break) ...no profit. Suppose the position of the moon is correct according to Bhāgavata or according to the scientist, what benefit we shall get out of it? Whichever may be correct or wrong.

Morning Walks -- June 18-19, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Indulge in sex.

Siddha-svarūpa: ...indulge in sex so that it's just a cultural thing that they actually try to control that just for health and mental power, whereas in the west the leaders and the people in general... (break)

Prabhupāda: ...and because they indulge too much in sex, therefore they cannot understand. That is the proof they are fools.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. (break) ...control themselves. The colonialists will go in and... (break)

Prabhupāda: Unless they are taught about spiritual attraction, everyone will be finished. (break) ...very childhood they should be given spiritual education. (break) ...by repressive method you will never be successful.

Siddha-svarūpa: Yes. Repression is also due to frustration. That they can't convince someone... (break)

Prabhupāda: Russians are doing that by repression.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva:. Toast.

Prabhupāda: Not toast even. (laughter) Dry loaf? Without any taste, without any value. That also in his table. He cannot go to the... He's busy working. So this is ass. He does not think that "I am working so hard, I am earning so much money. What benefit I am taking? A glass of tea and a loaf? For this I am working so hard? I can get this without any work. Anyone will offer me this glass of tea and loaf. Why I am working so hard?" That sense he hasn't got. Therefore he is ass. Everyone you will see. They are working so hard, they have no time. But what they are enjoying? They are not enjoying even more than ordinary man. But he has no sense, "So for this much benefit I am working so hard?" Therefore he is an ass. A philosopher at least thinks that "Why shall I work so hard for this, only a glass of...?" So therefore he is a little better than these karmīs. Karmī, jñānī. And they are restless because they are falsely thinking that they will get some benefit. They have some aspiration, ambition for getting some benefit. The karmīs they are trying that "I will have so much bank balance, 300,000,000's." He is satisfied to see the bank balance. Although bank balance will not go with him, but he is happy by seeing that "I have got so much bank balance." So they want bank balance only, not enjoyable life. They do not enjoy life. They want to see that "I have so much bank balance, such a high building. I possess this much." They are satisfied. That is not satisfaction. He will never be satisfied. He will want more, more, more. So the karmī has got some demand in his heart. And the jñānī, although they are little advanced more than the karmīs, but they have also demand, that "I shall become merged into the existence of the Supreme." Brahma-li(?). That is also demand. The yogis, they want to show some magic power and get popularity.

Garden Conversation with Dr. Gerson and devotees -- June 22, 1975, Los Angeles:

Dr. Gerson: That's what psychology's been trying to teach people: to do whatever they want to do because they have the power.

Prabhupāda: That's... But can he do anything as he likes?

Dr. Gerson: That's right.

Prabhupāda: If he... As he likes, if he infects some disease, he must suffer from the disease. Where is his independence? If you infect some disease, infectious disease, then you must suffer from the disease. That is nature's law. So where is your independence? Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya (BG 13.22). It is all described. Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu. Why there are so many varieties of life? Because he has associated with a particular type of modes of nature and he has got the body. Without any human sense he has learned to eat anything and everything, without any discrimination. Therefore nature will give the body of a pig. "All right, you eat anything up to stool. Up to stool you can eat." So how can you stop it? And because nature has given this body, he is relishing very good taste from stool. But this body, you cannot relish what is enjoyment in the stool. But because he has no discrimination of food, nature has given him, "All right, you can eat up to stool." Human life is meant for civilization, and they are trying to be naked. So next life will be: "All right, you remain naked standing as tree for five thousand years." How can you stop it? Wherefrom these varieties of life are coming? Kāraṇaṁ guṇa-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yoniṣu (BG 13.22).

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Bahulāśva: Even by studying the soil on the earth, Prabhupāda, they cannot make food grow without rain.

Prabhupāda: They cannot do anything. Simply they can bluff. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). Everything is being done by the nature. What they can do? These foolish rascals.

Indian guest: Certainly, nature got a whole lot of power.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes.

Indian guest: They're looking for energy. Energy running short, and we are running short of energy for driving a car and driving the entire ocean over here. See all these big waves coming round. So...

Jayatīrtha: Yes, Kṛṣṇa has no shortage of energy.

Indian guest: No. All big hurricanes and they came and full of energy and... I'm not saying that's good, but... We can put a small little fan in a room to blow a little wind this much. And see a big wind comes in from the nature. (break)

Prabhupāda: Everything is floating in wind, in air. Such a big cloud, floating in the air. It contains millions of tons of water but it is kept in air.

Morning Walk -- June 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that experience you can get. Just like God is describing Himself. Now, why don't you take that? Your description may be defective because you are imperfect. But if God Himself is giving His, I mean to say, identification, why don't you take it? Not only gives description, He acts according to the description. When Kṛṣṇa was present, He says, mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat (BG 7.7), "There is no more superior element." He proved it when He was present. There was no more superior power than Him when Kṛṣṇa was present. In His opulence, in His richness, in His strength, in His education—everything, all topmost, Kṛṣṇa. All topmost. The proof is that because you get the topmost knowledge, therefore Bhagavad-gītā is read all over the world, accepted, topmost knowledge. All scholars, all philosophers, all religionists, they read it.

Room Conversation -- June 26, 1975, Los Angeles:

Devotee (2): Wait. I am not speaking with you. He said he did that and he did it in the name of his authority as a sannyāsa. So if you say, Prabhupāda, that everything that they say is absolutely true, then they will have absolute power and can do anything that they want, and anything that they say and any opinion they express is taken to be the same as yours, then it becomes implied that you agree with and condone such things, because they do them with absolute license. And we don't believe that to be true. So we think it is some kind of mistake.

Prabhupāda: They say like that?

Devotee (1): Everyone says like that.

Room Conversation with the Mayor of Evanston -- July 4, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: This is first-class man. And the second-class man?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:

śauryaṁ tejo dhṛtir dākṣyaṁ

yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam

dānam īśvara-bhāvaṣ ca

kṣātraṁ karma svabhāva-jam

(BG 18.43)

"Heroism, power, determination, resourcefulness, courage in battle, generosity, and leadership are the qualities of work for the kṣatriyas."

Prabhupāda: That is second-class. And the third-class?

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa:

kṛṣi-gorakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ

vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam

paricaryātmakaṁ karma

śūdrasyāpi svabhāva-jam

(Bg 18.44)

"Farming, cattle raising and business are the qualities..."

Prabhupāda: They are not cattle raising, that was...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Cow protection.

Prabhupāda: Cow protection. It has to be corrected. It is go-rakṣya, go. They take it cattle-raising. I think Hayagrīva has translated like this.

Television Interview -- July 9, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: This is first-class man. Then second-class man?

Nitāi:

śauryaṁ tejo dhṛtir dākṣyaṁ

yuddhe cāpy apalāyanam

dānam īśvara-bhāvaś ca

kṣātraṁ karma svabhāva-jam

(BG 18.43)

"Heroism, power, determination, resourcefulness, courage in battle, generosity, and leadership are the qualities of work for the kṣatriyas."

Prabhupāda: This is second-class. And then third-class?

Nitāi:

kṛṣi-go-rakṣya-vāṇijyaṁ

vaiśya-karma svabhāva-jam

paricaryātmakaṁ karma

śūdrasyāpi svabhāva-jam

(BG 18.44)

Prabhupāda: That is fourth-class. First of all, third-class.

Nitāi: Third-class: "Farming, cattle raising and business are the qualities of work for the vaiśyas,..."

Prabhupāda: Not cattle raising, cow protection.

Nitāi: Cow protection.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Farming and cow protection and trade, this is meant for the third-class division. And worker, fourth-class. These divisions must be there. Then the society will go on very nicely. Exactly the same example, that if the different parts of the body—the brain, the arms, the belly and the legs—all are in order, the bodily function will go on very nicely. This is natural.

Morning Walk -- July 12, 1975, Philadelphia:

Devotee: Prabhupāda, did you say that trees have the ability to see and hear in the Bhāgavatam?

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Devotee: How is that?

Prabhupāda: Just like a vulture, he has got more seeing power than you. Is it not?

Devotee: Yes. He sees the carcass, you give the example, from way up.

Prabhupāda: Yes. (chuckles) But he can see only the carcass.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is also acintya-śakti of the vulture. He can see... He has special eyes.

Prabhupāda: No, it is acintya-śakti for us, but Kṛṣṇa has given different power to different animals. For us it is acintya, not for Kṛṣṇa.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Not for...?

Prabhupāda: For Kṛṣṇa there is nothing like acintya. Therefore we have to take knowledge from Kṛṣṇa.

Conversation with Professor Hopkins -- July 13, 1975, Philadelphia:

Prabhupāda: Our purpose is how to become happy. Everyone is struggling how to become happy. Somebody is thinking that "If I can get money then I'll be happy." Somebody is thinking that "If we become one with the Supreme, then I'll be happy." And somebody thinks that "If I can get material power, then I'll be happy." So those who are thinking in terms of money, they are karmīs. And those who are thinking in terms of becoming one, they are jñānīs. And those who are thinking in terms of getting material power, they are yogis. But the bhaktas, they don't want any such perfection. They, bhaktis, "Let me worship the Supreme, that's all." Therefore he has already (indistinct) and they are all in want. Bhakta is satisfied simply by worshiping the Lord. Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi. And all others, karmīs, jñānīs, yogis, they want something so they cannot be happy. So if happiness is my aim, then I must become a bhakta, otherwise there is no happiness. You are always in want. Somebody is in want of money, somebody is in want to becoming one with the Supreme, and somebody wants to show some jugglery, mysticism. So they want something. And a devotee, he doesn't want all these things. He wants to serve Kṛṣṇa, that's all. No demand. And he serves Kṛṣṇa without any motive. Ahaituky apratihatā. That is bhakta.

Morning Walk -- July 14, 1975, Philadelphia:

Ravīndra-svarūpa: But they can't understand the cell.

Prabhupāda: Yes. So their "perhaps," "maybe," is going on. And that will continue.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: Why does the living entity wish to speculate in this way?

Prabhupāda: He has been given a special advantage to think of God, but instead of thinking God, he is thinking all these rubbish things, which he will never be able to fulfill. Misusing. The thinking power he is misusing.

Ravīndra-svarūpa: So this mental speculation or this "perhaps" and "maybe" is a misuse of his specific power to understand God.

Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. The life, human life, is meant for enquiring about God, and God is explaining Himself about God. Instead of studying Bhagavad-gītā very scrutinizingly, they are wasting time. "The cells, this, that, atom." That's all, wasting time Just like we are driving this car. So we can utilize it for going from one place to another. So there is no need of studying how the car is moving, how many parts are there.

Morning Walk -- July 18, 1975, San Francisco:

Paramahaṁsa: Yeah, right. History.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is nature's arrangement (chuckles) that you all die. That is nature's arrangement.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: When someone gets some power he wants to try it out. Just like there was that demon. Lord Śiva gave him power: whoever head he touched, the head would fall off.

Prabhupāda: Just like in your country there are so many cars so that a poor man like me has car always, not an inch move on leg. So because there is so many. There are so many cars. So there are so many weapons now. That must be used. That is a natural sequence. They must use it.

Bahulāśva: That is why they have wars, just so they can use up the weapons.

Prabhupāda: Oh yes.

Paramahaṁsa: The only difficulty is that if one person uses the atomic weapon, that means entire, it would be entire waste of mankind. So everyone's afraid of using the ultimate.

Prabhupāda: Well, anyway, they must be used. There is no doubt about it. Therefore we can say there will be war. It is no astrology. It is natural conclusion.

Morning Walk -- July 18, 1975, San Francisco:

Prabhupāda: As soon as you accept energy, then you must enquire what is the source of the energy? Energy is produced. Just like here is energy, but it is produced under certain arrangement. Where the energy is being produced? If you accept energy, that is knowledge. Now, just like electrical energy is, what is called, generated in the powerhouse. You cannot say the electrical energy has jump over. It is being generated. Eh?

Bahulāśva: Yeah.

Prabhupāda: Then wherefrom this electric energy is coming? Where is the generating house? You cannot say that electric ener..., so many electrical light, they have come all of a sudden, no. There is a regular generating house. So where is that generating house? What is their reply?

Bahulāśva: They have none.

Dhīra Kṛṣṇa: You may get some of them to admit that they don't know, but then they'll think, "No one knows." They will say, "Well, no one knows that."

Prabhupāda: No, because you are rascal, therefore you cannot say that everyone is rascal. You rascal, you do not know. But we know because we are not rascals. We know. Kṛṣṇa says, aham ādir hi devānām (Bg 10.2). Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate (BG 10.8). So we know. You do not know, you rascal. But we know. Then what is the answer?

Morning Walk -- July 25, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That's nice. Hare Kṛṣṇa. (break) Caitanya Mahāprabhu's order is yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'-upadeśa (CC Madhya 7.128). Don't talk nonsense. Whomever you meet, if you want to become a leader and talk something, talk Kṛṣṇa-kathā, yāre dekha, tāre kaha 'kṛṣṇa'..., what Kṛṣṇa has said. Then satisfy your ambition to become a talker. Otherwise, you rascal, remain a talker only. You talk only; you get nothing. If you want to utilize your talking power, then talk what Kṛṣṇa has instructed. Then your life will be successful. And if you talk foolishly, then you will be revealed as a rascal. Tāvac ca śobhate mūrkho yāvat kiñcin na bhāsate: "A rascal fool is so long beautiful as long he does not speak. As soon as he speaks, then he is revealed that he is a rascal." So don't talk this. Tāvac ca śobhate mūrkha. You can dress yourself, very nice gentleman. People will res...But as soon as you talk nonsense—"Oh, here is a rascal," that's all. That is going on. They are... In the name of scientist, philosopher, they are talking nonsense and exposing themselves that they are all rascals.

Room Conversation -- July 31, 1975, New Orleans:

Satsvarūpa:

yatra yogeśvaraḥ kṛṣṇo

yatra pārtho dhanur-dharaḥ

tatra śrīr vijayo bhūtir

dhruvā nītir matir mama

(BG 18.78)

"Wherever there is Kṛṣṇa, the master of all mystics, and wherever there is Arjuna, the supreme archer, there will also certainly be opulence, victory, extraordinary power, and morality. That is my opinion."

Prabhupāda: Where there is Kṛṣṇa and His devotee, all opulences, all power, all strength, everything is there. Yatra yogeśvaraḥ kṛṣṇo yatra dhanur-dharaḥ pārthaḥ. Wherever there is Arjuna... Just like Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa were on the chariot. Whole battlefield became victorious on behalf of Arjuna. That is wanted. A devotee must be there, and Kṛṣṇa must be there. Then all opulences will come. That is the secret. Why a devotee shall go to the forest for meditating or acquiring some mystic powers? He doesn't require anything. If he keeps Kṛṣṇa always with him, then everything will... Yes. Is there any purport?

Satsvarūpa: Yes. "Purport. The Bhagavad-gītā began with an inquiry by Dhṛtarāṣṭra." (break)

Guest: Could you speak to us on giving thanks to the Lord?

Satsvarūpa: Could you speak about giving thanks to the Lord.

Prabhupāda: That is Hare Kṛṣṇa. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa always. That's all. All of us, we are keeping these beads. Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Room Conversation -- August 21, 1975, Bombay:

Lalitā: (Bengali) ...American guru. Yesterday somebody came to me when I am just... (Bengali) ...Central Intelligence... (Bengali) ...whose house that Mr. Badiraja(?) house, and Guru Maharaj-ji is Indian or American. Twice they phoned from the prime minister's office. We are telling them in Bengali. From there, Calcutta, West Bengal. And I know, my grandfather knows him, and I told this. (Bengali) ...this American guru. And again and again they are phoning. I said, "No, no." (Bengali) What she will feel? She has got that power.

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) ...she is spiritually inclined, therefore... (Bengali) "I know Mrs. Gandhi is spiritually inclined." (Bengali) By 1928 Jawaharlal Nehru, Congress President... (Bengali) "Dear Panditji, I want to go to Congress as a delegate. Please give me delegate ticket." (Bengali) "You don't require any ticket. You come here. You'll get it." Delegate's seats are... (Bengali)

Morning Walk -- September 6, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That's all right. But why you are very much disturbed with so many problems?

Dhanañjaya : They always take the brighter side.

Prabhupāda: No. They are discussing, "There will be no more petrol. There will be no more this, no more that."

Brahmānanda: So they are thinking, "Well, then we'll get the sun power. Then we'll get this and we'll get that."

Prabhupāda: Well, that is the problem. It is not that "Theoretically here is a problem. I will solve it like this. I'll..." That is not solution of problem. Problem is there. When you actually make solution, then... This is madness, theorizing, "We shall solve the problem like this." They are wasting public money in so many ways. (break) They do not know what is real problem. The real problem is presented by Kṛṣṇa: janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi (BG 13.9). That they do not care, although they do not want it. That's a fact. It is a problem because they do not want it. But they do not take it as serious problem. This is foolishness.

Brahmānanda: President Ford, he was almost killed.

Prabhupāda: Ācchā? What about?

Brahmānanda: Some woman... He was mingling in the crowd for the election, and some woman came up to him. She was two feet away from him, and she took out of her purse a loaded pistol, and she was to go like this, and then she was...

Prabhupāda: Captured.

Morning Walk -- September 26, 1975, Ahmedabad:

Indian man (3): Sir, if there is...

Prabhupāda: No, first of all let us settle this.

Indian man (2): First of all let us settle this one thing

Prabhupāda: Settle this. I create something which has got so power that it is localized, at the same time sarva-vyāpaka. And I myself, I cannot be sarva-vyāpaka. What is this logic?

Indian man (3): The sun rays are not actually... When there is hindrance, it cannot be on the other side.

Prabhupāda: No, hin... There is question of hindrance. I am seeing as it is. That is another thing.

Indian man (2): Hindrance is already there, as I described before. (laughter) Swamijī, my request is that the world is divided into two main things. One, some people believe, a group, believe that world is formless. Some say world has got a form. So instead of entering to this controversy, why we should not agree that whatever you...?

Prabhupāda: No, this is not controversy. This is fact, that God is... That is... We learn from śāstra,

vadanti tat tattva-vidas

tattva yaj jñānam advayam

brahmeti paramātmeti

bhagavān iti śabdyate

(SB 1.2.11)

The Absolute Truth is manifested in three ways: impersonal Brahman, and all-pervading Paramātmā, and Personality of Godhead-brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate—but they are one and the same. This is the verdict of the śāstra.

Morning Walk -- October 2, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: The world is not imperfect; you are imperfect rascal. You are rascal; you are imperfect. World is not imperfect.

Brahmānanda: Well, they have these cyclones. They come...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Must come because you are to be killed. You are rascal; you are to be killed. Therefore God has created cyclone. You protect yourself if you are scientist, if you have got power.

Cyavana: Because they are anxious for some...

Prabhupāda: Because God has created cyclone, therefore He is perfect because you are to be killed, blown away with your all paraphernalia, with your all scientific laboratory and instrument. Go. Go to hell. That is perfection.

Cyavana: They are eager to find a solution. Therefore they are forced to speculate because they have no other way...

Prabhupāda: No other way.

Cyavana: They have no other way to learn, unless they will accept Veda, which they won't accept. (break) ...sense gratification. They enjoy making so many theories.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Yes. Mano-ratha: "Chariot of mind."

Morning Walk -- October 3, 1975, Mauritius:

Brahmānanda: They had very good managing talent.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. But the whole thing was planned for their own sense gratification.

Brahmānanda: Exploitation.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: If we ever had any kind of power like that and tried to do something like that, they would accuse that this is like the Crusades.

Prabhupāda: Now, Crusades, even... If they could expand the ideas of Christian, love of Godhead, that was nice. But that was not the purpose. It is exploitation.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Even by force?

Prabhupāda: Yes. By force if you give some good medicine, that is good for him. In my childhood I would not take medicine. Exactly like this, now also. (laughter) So I was given medicine by force in the spoon. Two men will catch me and my mother take me on the lap and then force and I shall take. I never agreed to take any medicine.

Room Conversation -- October 4, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Try. Foolishly you try whatever you like. That is another thing. But it is not under your control. You can try. That is your... Of course, you must try as a dutiful father, but you should know that you cannot take any guarantee or do anything, good or bad. That you have already said, "the destiny." That is prominent. That is prominent, not you.

Cyavana: The tendency of the humans...

Prabhupāda: You can do the best to train your child to become Kṛṣṇa conscious. That is in your power. That you can do. That is the best service, not anything else. That is not possible. If you become yourself Kṛṣṇa conscious, and if you try to make your son Kṛṣṇa conscious, that you can do. And that is the duty, real duty. Other things, you cannot do anything. That is destiny. And if you make him Kṛṣṇa conscious, then destiny can also be changed. This is the concession of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Destiny also can be changed. Karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājām (Bs. 5.54). One who comes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, his karma is also changed.

Morning Walk -- October 5, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Indian man (3): Lord Kṛṣṇa created Lord Viṣṇu, and Lord Viṣṇu in His turn created Lord Brahmā. So...

Prabhupāda: Not created, expanded. Just like one candle is burning, and you lit up another candle. So this candle is not created, it is simply power transfer. Expansion. You can call it expansion. Dīpārcir eva hi daśāntaram abhyupetya (Bs. 5.46). Expansion of the light. This is, contains iodine, this ship. Iodine. That ship is going or coming?

Cyavana: Going. But he's sitting.

Prabhupāda: Oh, it is standing.

Cyavana: It's sitting, yes.

Indian boy (2): Swamijī, do you think that Bible, about the Adam, Adam is Brahmā? It has been copied from the Indian philosophy to put it there in different name?

Prabhupāda: From historical point of view it is copied because Vedas are created by Brahmā long, long, many millions, millions of years, and Bible is created two thousand years. So we have to take the original. All religious system of the world, they are taken from Vedas, from different parts. Therefore they are not complete. The age of Bible is not more than two thousand years. The age of Veda you cannot calculate, millions and millions of years.

Room Conversation -- October 5, 1975, Mauritius:

Guest (1): No.

Prabhupāda: And gradually, when you are well behaving, then you shall be initiated to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. That will give you strength, spiritual power. Strictly observe the regulative principles—no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication, no gambling. It is very simple. Read these literatures, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, and observe these regulations. Then you will become gradually powerful. Your speeches will be effective. People will like you.

Guest (2) (Indian man): Now the program in the village, Swamijī, how to...

Prabhupāda: Village... Just like you acquire some land. That you will get. It is not very... Is it difficult?

Guest (2): No, sir.

Prabhupāda: Just we are doing so many places. So you produce your own food grains, not for making money but just for feeding yourself and the animals, cows. Keep cows, as many cows as possible, and produce, till the ground, field, and make water supply arrangement. If the investment is required, we shall do that. You have no worry about investment. We shall bring money from anywhere. But the work must be done very nicely. There must be good arrangement for water supply and for plowing and keeping the cows in order. Then you get sufficient milk, sufficient food grains and produce your own cloth. The girls and ladies, they can spine (spin) thread, and from the thread you make cloth, handlooms. So your first necessities of life, eating, and make little cottage, sleeping... And if you want sex, get yourself married, live peacefully. And when you are there you can defend yourself. So the first necessity is how to eat and how to cover. That you have to provide. That is not difficult. You can do it. And then you become peaceful, no anxiety for your maintenance. And then cultivate this spiritual knowledge the same way. Have a temple there. Have... Go on chanting, offering prasādam. You have got your food grains. Don't be dependent on anyone else. Become self-independent. And don't be after money. Simply produce your bare necessities of life. Keep yourself fit, strong. And chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, read book. Then you'll grow strong. Is there any difficulty?

Morning Walk -- October 7, 1975, Durban:

Devotee (2): They know how to destroy everything, but they can't create anything nice.

Prabhupāda: No question of creating. They have destroyed themselves. Save yourself from destruction. Then you talk of destruction. You destroy. That's all right. But you will be destroyed by some other greater power. What you are going to do that? What you have done for that purpose? You destroy. That is going on, nature's way. I am killing somebody, somebody is killing me. That is nature's way. So what is your special credit? There is no credit. There is no credit. You save yourself not to be destroyed by others. "I can destroy others but nobody can destroy me"—that Hiraṇyakaśipu tried. But that is not possible. Ultimately he was destroyed. That's all.

Morning Walk -- Durban, October 13, 1975 :

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So then the point is that they criticize that how we can preach such a civilization to the Western countries if even it's not working in India today. Although theoretically it's perfect, practically it's not working.

Prabhupāda: No. Practically, because you have preached your culture in India; therefore they have lost their own culture. The Western, the Britishers were for two hundred years and they preached. Their policy was to kill the Indian culture. Because that report of Lord McCauley, after studying Indian situation, the report was to the Parliament that "If you keep India as Indian, then you will not be able to rule over them," so therefore there was regular policy to kill Indian civilization. And because they were on the governing power, they could do it. Therefore India lost its own culture and victimized by the Western culture. This is the position. Just they are learning how to eat meat, how to drink wine, how to dress them with coat and pant, how to go to the hotel, illicit sex—these things are…

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Imported.

Prabhupāda: In India it was unknown. They did not know. In our childhood we have seen that they did not know how to drink tea even.

Room Conversation -- October 14, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: Defamy. So the last defamy is that you die. I say, "You are rascal. You are fool. You are this, and that." This is all not so dangerous. But if I say that "You die," that is the last defamy. So in spite of all their clever invention, they are going to die. Then what is the value? That you cannot check. "I have done wonderful things"—that's all right, invention, so many things. That's all right. "But what about my death?" Have you done anything that you can save yourself? You, Mr. Darwin, you have so experience. Millions of millions of years you have got. Why don't you stop your death? You cannot live more than a hundred years, and you are talking of millions of years. What is this nonsense? You stop your death, live for millions of years and see things. So where is that power? Then what is your value? You live for fifty years, sixty years, or utmost, hundred years, and you talk of millions of years?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Actually our theory, even taken as a theory, that the soul is there and enters the body, and when the soul leaves, the body is finished, it's very palatable, very palatable. Very few people argue with it. It's simply that they've been miseducated. Therefore they are cheated. They accept.

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is the difficulty, that, wholesale people have been miseducated. That is our protest. And this miseducated is ruling the whole world, all rascals (break)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: ...cheated in some business transaction, they become very mad, angry, so much so sometimes they want to kill the opposing party. But when they are cheated in this way they don't mind so much, because their sense gratification, either way, is there. So only people who are serious about understanding the truth will accept these things.

Prabhupāda: We therefore submit our statement as it is stated in Bhagavad-gītā. You cannot say that we are cheating, because we are presenting something authorized, which is accepted. That's all. So we are not cheater. You may accept or not accept; that is your business. But we are presenting something standard. That's all.

Morning Walk -- October 16, 1975, Johannesburg:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So complex.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This is going on. "These Britishers do not allow me to go there? All right, kill them." That was the Hitler policy and Kaiser's policy, to kill British empire. They did it. They were successful. But they were also killed. This is going on, unnecessary. Why you produce so much razor and scissor? And then find out market, and when there is competition, there is anger, there is enviousness, there is fight, one after another, one after another. Where is peace? Why do you produce so many unnecessarily? Why do you produce so many cars, when there is scarcity of power, and fight with Arabians? Anartha. Therefore it is called anartha, unnecessary. Anarthopasamaṁ sākṣād bhakti-yogam adhokṣaje (SB 1.7.6). As soon as people will be devotee, they will not require unnecessary things. They will be satisfied, simply bare necessities of life. That is peaceful condition. You create unnecessary needs of life, and then there is competition, there is hellish life, the factory, and then the factory man requires wine to forget his hard labor, so on, so on. Then he become thieves. He become rogues. This is your society. How you can expect peace?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The only solution is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

Prabhupāda: That's it, only solution.

Morning Walk -- October 17, 1975, Johannesburg:

Prabhupāda: So unless one agrees you cannot turn him. It is not possible. Five-years'-old boy, staunch devotee, and the powerful Hiraṇyakaśipu, father, who is threatening with his life and so many ways he tried that "You become atheist, godless. Otherwise I shall kill you." He did not agree. And similarly, the son also solicited the father that "You have got so much power by the grace of God. Why you are becoming atheist?" Both of them could not turn to their side. Prahlāda remained Prahlāda, and Hiraṇyakaśipu remained Hiraṇyakaśipu. (break) ...can expect that without agreeing, conceding, one can be reformed. No, that is not possible. Impossible.

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Not simply by rubber stamp.

Prabhupāda: No, that is not possible. He must agree, "Yes." Therefore guru is required. Guru means, accept guru means, "Whatever you say, I will accept." That is guru. Otherwise friendly talk. Friendly talk will not do. To accept guru means "Now I accept you, guru, my instructor, without any argument," and that is acceptance. "Whatever you say, I shall do." That is agreement. Then he can be reformed. Śiṣyas te 'ha śādhi mā prapannam: "I surrender unto you. I become your disciple. Now you train me." Then he can be reformed. Otherwise not possible.

Morning Walk -- October 19, 1975, Johannesburg:

Indian man (1): Is it possible that every man's life is directed by God, and you're born to do certain things, and you come to be prime minister or something?

Prabhupāda: Yes, there is something like that. But I am talking of, if you depend on God, then why do you keep elections? You are opportunist. Sometimes you take shelter of God and sometimes of your election power. If you are so firm believer in God, then why election? Let God elect. Why you take part in election? Huh? Let God elect the prime minister. Why you are busy in giving vote? (break) God elected Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira. Hm? His plan was that Mahārāja Yudhiṣṭhira should be king, not Duryodhana. So He killed all the Duryodhana's party and selected Yudhiṣṭhira: "Sit down here." That is God's election. So why you elect? Depend on God.

Indian man (1): And that comes through lack of spiritual knowledge, Swamiji?

Prabhupāda: Yes, no knowledge. No spiritual knowledge means he is animal. That's all. Sa eva gokharaḥ. This is the final verdict. One who has no spiritual knowledge, he is no better than these cows and dogs. That's all. Therefore guidance of the brāhmaṇa required. Why the brāhmaṇas are selected to guide? Because they have got full vijñāna, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyam, therefore.

Morning Walk -- October 25, 1975, Mauritius:

Prabhupāda: (break) ...the government accept you as guide, then everything will be all right. Brāhmaṇa, kṣatriya, vaiśya, śūdra. Tell them that "We are not going to take any salary. You simply take our advice, and govern." The modern legislative assembly, they should be composed of first-class brāhmaṇas, no salary. Then the government will be first-class. All of them are after money; therefore they are trying to capture the power. They have no idea, no desire for the well-being of the citizens. (break) ...this tree? Dates?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Called palmetto tree. Palmetto tree. Not fruit-bearing. Not fruit-bearing.

Prabhupāda: (Break)...beyond the sun.

Indian man: Beyond the sun. How would you explain about eclipse which we get?

Prabhupāda: That you ask some astronomer. I am not astronomer. But I understand from Vedic scripture that moon is beyond the sun.

Indian man: 'Cause we have seen that the moon comes between...

Prabhupāda: Yes, eclipse, it is Rahu. It is Rahu between the sun and, sun and moon. Yes.

Morning Walk -- November 3, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Nobody landed. This is all bogus.

Dr. Patel: No, no, whatever he did... Let us... It is all bogus, but that man is divorced by his wife because he has lost his sex. Somebody told me.

Prabhupāda: There are many cases. This is the statement in the Bhāgavata. Dampatye ratim eva hi: "Marriage relationship will continue only on sex power, that's all." If one is weak in sex power, the marriage will be cancelled.

Dr. Patel: You must tell any other good messages, how actually a marriage is, can be for production of good progeny...

Prabhupāda: Yes. Putrārthe kriyate bharyā putra-piṇḍa-prayojanam. This, the first, piṇḍa-dāna for maintaining family. But nowadays nobody wants offspring. They want to kill to avoid botheration.

Dr. Patel: First they prevent, and if by accident it happens, then they kill it. And the medical profession help them.

Prabhupāda: Help them. Before my speaking you are saying. (laughter)

Morning Walk -- November 4, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Consciousness means soul, soul.

Dr. Patel: Consciousness is the higher śakti of God, I mean, apara to anya...

Prabhupāda: No, no, consciousness... So long the soul is there, the consciousness is there. The consciousness is not there means the soul is not there.

Indian (2): But one thing the doctor has got in power, you see. That is this, that suppose he gives a poisonous injection, that is immediately affected, and why the soul is out of it if...?

Prabhupāda: No, no, all injection will be effective so long the soul is there.

Dr. Patel: Yes. Give it to the dead bodies, he says.

Prabhupāda: That is my point, that if... (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. If this analysis of the blood, urine and other things can help us, so you can analyze the dead bodies—stool, urine, blood, something is there—and give some injection and let him come to life.

Morning Walk -- November 7, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...is occupying very exalted post, even in this material world, he is favored by Kṛṣṇa. Sanātana Gosvāmī, when the Nawab said that "I shall arrest you," then he replied that "You are representative of God, so if you arrest me I have no objection." He said that. He was Mohammedan, and he was a Hindu brāhmaṇa. He never felt that "How the Mohammedan can arrest me?" No. He said that "You are representative of God because you are in such exalted post." (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Kṛṣṇa also says, "Anyone who is, materially even, very opulent, that means he has got some power." (aside) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (Hindi) (break) ...in politics, how to treat with enemies, how to treat with friends, how to make... In politics there are so many things, diplomacy. So he said, "What is this nonsense? Everyone should be Kṛṣṇa conscious. They are all equal." His father became angry. What is that?

Indian man (3): (Hindi)

Prabhupāda: Oh.

Bhāgavata: He said it is all nonsense.

Prabhupāda: Yes. For a devotee, these politics, diplomacy, these are nonsense. But sometimes they have to do. Sate sarthaṁ samācaret. Hare Kṛṣṇa.

Morning Walk -- November 11, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: That is the disease. That is the disease. A diseased man never thinks that he is diseased. He thinks, "I am quite all right." But a physician will say, "Oh, no, no, you are diseased." He says, "I am quite all right." Cancer. And then, after few days, finished. They do not know that "Why I am dying?" They think death is natural. But Bhagavad-gītā says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). They have no brain to inquire that here is information that even after the destruction, the jīva does not die. But he does not inquire. He says, "Death is natural. Let me die." This is blind. They agree to die. And Bhagavad-gītā says, na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre: (BG 2.20) "There is no death even after destruction..." They will not inquire about this. So blind. So blind. This should be inquiry, that "If it is a fact that even after destruction of the body I do not die, then what is that position?" That inquiry is also not there. They are so fool. That is human life, athāto brahma jijñāsā, to inquire about the spirit soul. (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (Hindi) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. (break) Bhelpuri? Very popular. Yes. Picnic.

Harikeśa: The scientists will say that their particles are smaller than one ten-thousandth the tip of a hair.

Prabhupāda: First of all find out one ten-thousandth. Then talk. Find out.

Harikeśa: They make measurements with, to the twenty-second power, like a decimal point and twenty-two zeroes and then a one. We were just talking about quarks.

Prabhupāda: Quarks?

Harikeśa: Quark. Yes. The quark is the... There are things called hedons, and the quark is the smallest possible combination of elements that make a hedon, which makes up the protons and electrons. They haven't seen them yet. They just thought they might be there.

Prabhupāda: Again, "Might be. Maybe."

Morning Walk -- November 11, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: And in our list the plants are there. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. Sthāvara means plants. There are jalaja, aquatics, and sthāvara means plant. All living entities, different forms... Bhagavad-gītā says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya (BG 14.4). As many forms are there of the living entities. But what are these forms? Forms means the spirit soul is one, and he is covered by these material elements. That is form. So either your form or my form, but the ingredients are the same, bhūmir āpo 'nalo vāyuḥ (BG 7.4). (break) The soul is the same, and the ingredients of the body are the same. That is explained in Iśo..., ekatvam anupaśyate. Just like from gold, take from the mine—you make earring or this finger ring, the ingredients are the same. The forms may be different. (break) Apollo airship, thousands of technologists and scientists were engaged to make this Apollo, and it burst out. So they have no foreseeing power that it will burst out. At that time they began to pray to God.

Morning Walk -- November 29, 1975, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: But what the Communist has done for the world benefit?

Harikeśa: Well, it's a nice philosophy.

Prabhupāda: In India there are many Communists, but the price of foodstuff increasing daily. What they can do?

Haṁsadūta: Well, they say "If we were in power, this would not happen."

Prabhupāda: So why don't you become in power? You are strong. And what they have done, those who are already in the power? There is no food. One has to give line for two hours to get foodstuff. I have seen in Moscow.

Ambarīṣa: They don't have any food. They have to buy from the United States.

Kṛṣṇa-caitanya: Importing from India.

Prabhupāda: Yes, importing India, America.

Kṛṣṇa-caitanya: They don't have any bananas, mangoes, nothing.

Prabhupāda: So this rascaldom is going on.

Morning Walk -- December 11, 1975, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: That's alright. Make you one sun, if you know! Many suns but you have not made anyone of them. You just try to make one, then I shall see your intelligence. Huh? What do you say? Anybody?

Akṣayānanda Swami: They cannot do.

Devotee (1) (woman): They don't have enough power.

Prabhupāda: Huh? Then why do you say nonsense! If you have not enough power there must be somebody powerful than you—you have to admit that—who has made all these things. But you are rascal you have not... You are simply, ahh, what is called? Speculating. That in future we shall be powerful. But the powerful is already there. What is your credit? More powerful-) you cannot conceive even how powerful He a scientist. Huh? Is that alright? What is your value? The already powerful is there, who has manufactured these things. And you are expecting in future you'll be powerful; therefore you are more powerful. Just see their folly. If you are powerful then make it, another imitation sun.

Room Conversation -- December 14, 1975, New Delhi:

Prabhupāda: As soon as he finds a female dog, he wants to make friendship with her and have sex. On the street, never mind. And similarly the demigods they are also engaged in the same business. In a different standard only. The business is the same. Āhāra-nidr-bhayam etam. So if one wants to continue this business then he'll continue this material body and if he wants to stop this business, come to his original position, then he makes real progress. But nobody is interested in advancement of spiritual life. Generally they take to religion, religiosity, for material happiness. Artho 'rhati. I am distressed, I have no money, or I am suffering from some disease; you'll find all these. So all of them go to the sādhus only for this purpose. Sir, I am suffering from some disease, so without going to the doctor, and saving so much money, let me pay hundred rupees to the sādhu and he'll give me his blessings. So I will save thousands of rupees, for curing the disease. For this purpose they go to sādhu. Nobody goes to sādhu for going back to home back to godhead. It is only (material) proposition. Otherwise the so-called yogis, sādhus, swamis, they are making good luck business simply by promising that you'll get this material power. This Mahesh Yogi he says that, what is his philosophy?

Conversation on Roof -- December 26, 1975, Sanand:

Prabhupāda: Just see how rascal they are. This is the fact. We make some arrangement, and after few years it becomes imperfect. They say the revolution required. Why? That is natural. And natural means a power which makes your arrangement spoiled. Then what is your brain? You have got some superior brain which nullifies your plan. Why don't you accept this?

Harikeśa: Like breaking the law and being thrown in jail...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harikeśa: ...after you are caught...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Harikeśa: ...and then wondering why.

Prabhupāda: Yes. He does not know that "I was imperfect, thief. Therefore I have put into jail." So we can face any philosopher. But I can give you ideas. You can write some small articles. Let them solve these thesis, antithesis and synthesis. They, they accept this thesis, antithesis?

Harikeśa: Oh, yeah.

Prabhupāda: Put them.