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Poverty (Conversations)

Conversations and Morning Walks

1968 Conversations and Morning Walks

Questions and Answers -- Montreal, August 26, 1968:

Prabhupāda: Pratigraha means accept offerings from others. Just like you offered so many things to me-money, clothing, food—so a sannyāsī, a brāhmaṇa, can accept. Not others. A gṛhastha cannot. There are restriction. A brahmacārī can, but he can accept on behalf of his spiritual master, not personally. These are the rules. So He was learned brāhmaṇa, and people used to present Him profusely, so He had no economics problem. Not that He renounced the world on account of poverty or some strain. He had no poverty, He was opulent. A brāhmaṇa does not require any great amount of wealth just to pull on his family. So that much amount was more than that He was receiving. He was teacher also. Paṭhana, pāṭhana, yajana, yājana. Brahmin's business is to teach and to become a very learned scholar and teach people how to worship Kṛṣṇa and become devotee himself, and accept charities from others and distribute it again.

1970 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation -- November 4, 1970, Bombay:

Haṁsadūta: (laughs) They're angry. "How can the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa purify the mind? It only closes it to everything else. Purity of the mind lies in knowing all evil and yet abstaining from it. The escapist attitude of the devotees of the movement is reflected in the reply of Adhikārī when he bypasses the question of India's poverty by giving irrelevant answers. The poverty of our country is known to all of us. I am not an atheist, but I find it difficult to digest the sentimentalism in the article."

Prabhupāda: What is that sentimentalism?

Haṁsadūta: I didn't read the article. That was in the... Which paper? I think this was in a Bombay paper. What paper is this?

Guest (1): This is Times of India.

Prabhupāda: Bombay.

1973 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Indian Guests -- July 11, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi)

Guest (3): It's more peaceful.

Prabhupāda: Especially in Bengal, all, they have turned to be low...

Guest (3): Due to poverty, Guru Mahārāja?

Prabhupāda: Ne, culture...

Guest (3): Culture nāsti.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) Poverty's not question.

Guest (1): It's basically the character, the problem of the character.

Prabhupāda: (Hindi) They have no idea about Vedic... They are supposed to be preaching Vedānta philosophy, but they do not know what is Vedānta.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Lord Brockway: Yes, two things. First, when I speak of service, I don't just mean individual goodness to others. I think the service to the world today means an understanding of the causes of war, of the causes of poverty. It means an intellectual analysis and seeking to end what are the causes of war and poverty and suffering and crime. And it isn't only individual goodness. It's a combination of a desire, which is good, with a knowledge of how to achieve it. That would be the first thing that I would say. And the second thing I would say is this, and this may surprise you. I would quite welcome death. I've no fear of it at all.

Prabhupāda: Because you are pure.

Lord Brockway: I, uh... (Prabhupāda laughs)

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: No, but my proposition is that they should not commit, either the king or the elected person should not commit mistake. But if you try to educate the mass of people to become educated to elect the right person, that is very difficult. But if a king, a person, is educated nicely, that is easier. That is my point of view.

Lord Brockway: Yes. Yes, but the mass of people in poverty, the...

Prabhupāda: No, everything will be all right. Because the man on the head is perfectly, he'll manage, he'll manage. But if he's not perfect, then it is not possible. Therefore the endeavor should be made... Either call it dictator or president or king, it doesn't matter. The man on the top of the executive must be a perfect man.

Lord Brockway: Now, in taking your view that all men and women are the children of God, they've got God within them, then the advance of mankind must be by giving the opportunity of God in all men and women.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: Yes. That is our mission.

Lord Brockway: And at the present time you haven't got those conditions. Because of inequalities, because of poverty, because of hunger, because of war, you haven't got those conditions.

Prabhupāda: No, I...

Lord Brockway: And therefore, therefore, it is not only the goodness of an individual which you want. You want, combined with the goodness of an individual, of an understanding of the causes...

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Lord Brockway -- July 23, 1973, London:

Lord Brockway: ...which lead to hunger and poverty and war.

Prabhupāda: That...

Lord Brockway: It's only when you have those two things together...

Prabhupāda: Yes, we have got...

Lord Brockway: ...that you can bring about a solution.

Prabhupāda: Because people are godless at the present moment, they're suffering.

Lord Brockway: It's not only because of that.

Room Conversation with Reporter from Researchers Magazine -- July 24, 1973, London:

Prabhupāda: But it did not go to his hand-hands of his secretary. They thought, "What is this nonsense propaganda? Now let us become prime minister."

Reporter: (laughs) Yes. But how problems of India, like poverty...

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Reporter: Like poverty, and this lack of balance between rich and poor. How these problems can be solved?

Prabhupāda: That, that... Gandhi wanted to solve it, but you rejected. Gandhi wanted it to... Village organization. He started that Wardha Ashram. But you have rejected. What Gandhi can do? That was good proposal—to remain satisfied in one's own place. That was Gandhi's proposal. That "Don't go to the city, town, for so-called better advantage of life. Remain in your own home, produce your food, and be satisfied there." That was Gandhi's policy. The economic problem he wanted to solve by keeping cows, by agriculture, by spinning thread. "You want food, shelter and cloth? Produce here, and remain here. Don't be allured by the capitalists and go to cities and engage in industries." But Jawaharlal Nehru wanted, overnight, to Americanize the whole India. That is the folly.

Room Conversation with Cardinal Danielou -- August 9, 1973, Paris:

Cardinal Danielou: Oui. Bien. Cest, nous avons... We have today many community of prayers where young men go together and in the monastery or in the... N'est ce pas? And pray together with alternative of silence and of lectures, of some text of the Bible and of the gospel, you know. Because we, we think that the life of Jesus is the model or the shape, and we like that Jesus is the manifestation of God. He is the way, the way. Because it is necessary to find God, who is hidden, to have a way, to have a way. And for ourself, Jesus is the way to go to the hidden God. You know, you know. The imitation of Jesus is, for a Christian, the ideal, imitation of his poverty, of his goodness, of his love of God.

Yogeśvara: He says the ideal of Christianity is to imitate these various qualities of Lord Jesus Christ.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation with Indian Ambassador -- September 5, 1973, Stockholm:

Ambassador: There is poverty.

Prabhupāda: Eh?

Ambassador: There is poverty.

Prabhupāda: Poverty, there is poverty in other countries also.

Ambassador: Also.

Prabhupāda: There, there also... Now India has got poverty. So why in America and Europe, there are hippies. Why?

Ambassador: It's an express... It's another type of poverty.

Prabhupāda: They're also thinking that "We are not sumptuously fed," or something. Some demands is there. Some demand. And they are lying down, Amsterdam and here, on the street. And why? But they are coming of rich families, rich nation. Especially America. In London also, I have seen. Regent Park. They're lying down. Police is kicking. Police is kicking: "Get up, get up!" Why? Behind them the British Empire is, British government is there. Why he's lying down there? Who has told him to...? Government is requesting, "If you have no home, come on. I shall give you home." In Bombay also, these, what is called? The huts?

Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay:

Banker: We have had a long history of debate in America over wealth. We have had one group, the fundamentalist Protestants, who argue that... Most of them are poor, and they feel very guilty if they have money. And then you have another group of Protestants, the Gospel of Wealth Protestants, who say that if you are truly holy, then it is better that the money be entrusted to your hands than to a man who is unholy. And then you have still another group that regards money as an end in itself, rather than a means to, committing you to do other things, And this confuses people in America. Your parents will be one thing, you'll be another. In my case, my mother is a Gospel of Poverty person. Blessed are the poor. She thinks you won't get into heaven unless you are poor. And I'm in the Gospel of Wealth category. (laughter) And you just select your own philosophy along the way. Carnegie was in that philosophy. He even wrote a book about it a one hundred years ago. The steel Carnegie, Carnegie steel.

Prabhupāda: Yes, Carnegie's name I know.

Morning Walk -- December 20, 1973, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: That is everywhere. Luxury leads to poverty. (break) ...a living man, but if you are actually interested, why don't you do it, organized way. Sentiment, it is good, but if you do not understand the science, sentiment may be for the time being. Sentiment is sentiment. That will not act. They are admitting sinful activities?

Prajāpati: Yes, they are admitting that... They are an abyss of moral decay.

Prabhupāda: So let them know what are the sinful activities. These are the sinful activities. Close all the slaughterhouses. Close all these illicit sex brothel houses, and close the liquor houses.

Morning Walk -- December 30, 1973, Los Angeles:

Nalinīkaṇṭha: Too much.

Prabhupāda: Too much, yes. Luxury leads to poverty. Too much luxury. Now it will deteriorate.

Nalinīkaṇṭha: I was reading in one of the books you translated that you said that as more people become Kṛṣṇa conscious, the mentality of all of the people in that area, they lose their desires for material enjoyment.

Prabhupāda: No. Material enjoyment, you enjoy, but not like cats and dogs. You enjoy material life like human being. That is our proposal. Not like cats and dogs. Is it not enjoyment when you sit down in the Deity room and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and read philosophy? It is not enjoyment?

1974 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- February 19, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Sarva-karma-tyāga. Where is Girirāja? These boys collecting not less than thirty thousand per month, but not a single farthing for him. This is sarva-karma-phala. Is there any man, businessman?

Mr. Sar: Yes, yes. He stays in utter poverty.

Dr. Patel: Sarva-karma-phala-tyāgam eva.

Prabhupāda: He does not care for his body even.

Mr. Sar: Yes, he does not care.

Prabhupāda: I forced him to go to U.S.A. and get...

Dr. Patel: I invited him to stay in my house, but he said that he won't come.

Prabhupāda: No, no, he is not interested for his person.

Morning Walk 'Varnasrama College' -- March 14, 1974, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: They'll automatically come if you are ideal. Because they are being forced to poverty. So when there is a question of poverty, they'll come.

Hṛdayānanda: Room and board and training.

Prabhupāda: Yes. This poverty. Why there is poverty? Because they are not producing food. Everyone wants so-called comfortable life. So-called education. Sitting idle in the table and chair, and talking all gossips, nonsense, and sleeping. They have been trained up in this way, śūdra.

Hṛdayānanda: So they should be trained to rise early and so on.

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, if you keep healthy, then you will naturally rise healthy, er rise early in the morning. But if you... Because you have lost all, what is called? Stamina?

Morning Walk -- March 23, 1974, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no. First of all, are you serving the poor?

Guest (5): Yes, sir. I am a doctor. And we see only poverty. So I want to ask.

Prabhupāda: Then, then every... So every patient is a poor, and every doctor is puṇyavān.

Dr. Patel: Ha, every doctor is a fool. Like me.

Guest (5): No, I want to ask you. Swamiji...

Dr. Patel: Swami, Swami answered.

Prabhupāda: This has become a slogan, "Serving the poor." Where is the śāstra? Where Bhagavad-gītā it is said, "Serving the poor?"

Morning Walk -- May 24, 1974, Rome:

Dhanañjaya: ...control the whole of Rome. They own nearly all the businesses. (break)

Atreya Ṛṣi: ...a few enjoying very much. In the whole city, a lot of parks, a lot of amphitheaters and that is how they went to ruin.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Luxury leads to poverty. American luxury or European luxury leading to these hippies' poverty. Voluntarily they are accepting poverty. Opposite. Sometimes this side, sometimes that side. Pendulum.

Dhanañjaya: What is that? (loud noise from birds)

Prabhupāda: Cranes.

Dhanañjaya: Cranes?

Satsvarūpa: The zoo.

Room Conversation with Mr. C. Hennis of the International Labor Organization of the U.N. -- May 31, 1974, Geneva:

Prabhupāda: No.

C. Hennis: One of the obstacles is just plain poverty. One of the obstacles is overwork.

Prabhupāda: No, no. A human being should be considerate. Everyone has got religion. Either he is Hindu or Muslim or Christian, it doesn't matter. There must be discrimination between sinful activities and pious activities. Human being should be engaged for pious activities, not for sinful activities. That is human society. If the human being does not discriminate what is pious activities and what is sinful activity, that means lack of brain. He has no brain. He is no better than the animals.

Room Conversation -- June 5, 1974, Geneva:

Yogeśvara: Because the real problem is not poverty. That they haven't understood.

Prabhupāda: This is karma. If you have bad karma, then you must suffer by the laws of nature. You may be a rich man's son or king's son.

Puṣṭa-kṛṣṇa: Christ, he actually also said that. There's one verse in the Bible. Christ said, "The poor you will always have with you, but I will not be with you always." He said that also. They misunderstand.

Prabhupāda: Very good idea. Therefore I said Jesus Christ is son of God, so what he says and what Kṛṣṇa says, there is no difference. This has become a hackneyed slogan, "poor feeding." To do to the humanity—and cut the throat of the animal. What is this philosophy, nonsense philosophy? They have no conception of God. If he has got conception of God, then everyone—paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ (BG 5.18). Oh, why for the benefit of the human being, other animals' throat should be cut? Even they have no common sense. National. National means one who is born in that land. That is national. So why the animals born in that land, they are not national?

1975 Conversations and Morning Walks

Room Conversation with Sanskrit Professor, other Guests and Disciples -- February 12, 1975, Mexico:

Guest (4): Poverty is also a comparative term.

Prabhupāda: No, I saw in Amsterdam—simply full of hippies, lying down on the street, lying down in the park, no food, no shelter. It is going on.

Guest (2): The hippies are not lying in the park because they lack food.

Prabhupāda: They must be wanting something. They are in need of something.

Guest (2): But not necessarily food.

Prabhupāda: One body is in need of food; another body is in need of something else. They're needy, everyone, needy. That you have to accept. I have seen in Los Angeles. I was walking in the Beverly Hills quarter. One hippie boy is coming from a very nice house. Beverly Hills, that quarter, is resided by all rich class. And he has got very nice car, but he's hippie. Why? His father is very rich man. He has got nice car. He might be very educated. Then why he is hippie? What is the answer?

Morning Walk -- February 21, 1975, Caracas:

Prabhupāda: University education is simply to learn some art, materialistic art. It is not education. Education is different. Education is brahma-vidyā, self-realization. Therefore in politics the so-called leader, because there is no standard, they change government, revolution. Why? From nature's study we can see one tree is producing a particular type of fruit and flower. There is no revolution. It is standard. But these people, because they have no standard, they change every moment, every year. Nature's way—the sun is rising from the eastern side—that is standard. (chuckles) These rascals, they will say, "Let the sun rise from the north." It is childish, simply childish. "Eastern philosophers, Western..." What is this philosophy? Philosophy is philosophy. Why they talk of Eastern, Western?" Eastern sun, Western sun." Sun is always Eastern, never Western. How one can say, "Western sun?" (break) Just see. It is in the water, but the water is not over it. If the water increases, it also increases. See? There is no water on the leaf. Here you see. The water must be always down. (break) ...falling from the top of the Sumeru Hill, a big tree, and the juice, after falling down, turns into a river of mango juice. And the blackberries, they are just like the body of elephant and small seed. They also turn into river, Jambu-nada. And the both sides of the river, being moistened by the juice and dried by air and interacted by the sunshine, it becomes gold. And that gold is used for the denizens of heaven for their ornaments, helmets, bracelet, belt. Where is gold here? Paper. They cannot make even gold coins. They are reducing into poverty.

Morning Walk -- February 23, 1975, Caracas:

Devotee: Even in all these countries, Śrīla Prabhupāda, they are always complaining about there are so many starving people, but nobody has ever seen anybody die.

Prabhupāda: (chuckles) In India also. They, "Poverty, poverty, poverty." Have you seen anyone dying?

Śrutakīrti: No.

Prabhupāda: They are purchasing eight rupees kilo rice.

Śrutakīrti: Even the poorest person seems to be maintaining somehow. Even the poorest people seem to be maintained. (break)

Prabhupāda: ...of knowledge, not starvation of food.

Room Conversation with Press Representative -- March 21, 1975, Calcutta:

Guest: Is it possible for poverty-stricken people, those who have to earn bread and money by the sweat of their brow?

Prabhupāda: According to śāstra, poverty is no impediment for understanding God. Because we see practically that those who are great souls, they have voluntarily accepted poverty.

Guest: Just like Pratapudro(?).

Prabhupāda: Many. Just like Vyāsadeva. There is no comparison of his literature. One cannot write one line like him. But he was living in a cottage. Cāṇakya Paṇḍita, such a great politician, he was living in a cottage. He did not keep any Rolls Royce car or like that. Rather, this material opulence is impediment to understand God. So it is not that I say, comparatively inferior, not that material opulence is also another check, no. Neither poverty is check nor material opulence is check. Anyone can understand if he follows the principle or process.

Room Conversation with Press Representative -- March 21, 1975, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the ABCD. Then you can go further on. If you read Bhagavad-gītā as it is, there is everything explained, everything. All problems are solved. Any problem you propose, there is solution in the Bhagavad-gītā. Now this poverty, as you raised this question, poverty, so what is written there in the Bhagavad-gītā? Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). This is instruction, that "You produce food grain." Now, suppose Calcutta is a big city. Who is producing food grain? Everyone is trying to purchase food grain. But who is thinking that "Wherefrom the food grain will come?" Just see the foolishness of the people. You have to produce food grain. And there is ample facility. But throughout the whole world there are hundreds and thousands of cities. Now, who is producing food grain? The solution is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. He said, annād bhavanti bhūtāni. Kṛṣṇa never said, "By motor tire bhavanti bhūtāni."

Room Conversation with Press Representative -- March 21, 1975, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is the ABCD. Then you can go further on. If you read Bhagavad-gītā as it is, there is everything explained, everything. All problems are solved. Any problem you propose, there is solution in the Bhagavad-gītā. Now this poverty, as you raised this question, poverty, so what is written there in the Bhagavad-gītā? Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). This is instruction, that "You produce food grain." Now, suppose Calcutta is a big city. Who is producing food grain? Everyone is trying to purchase food grain. But who is thinking that "Wherefrom the food grain will come?" Just see the foolishness of the people. You have to produce food grain. And there is ample facility. But throughout the whole world there are hundreds and thousands of cities. Now, who is producing food grain? The solution is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. He said, annād bhavanti bhūtāni. Kṛṣṇa never said, "By motor tire bhavanti bhūtāni." Bhavanti means flourish. Everyone is engaged in producing motor tire, car, and they are flattering the Arabians for petrol. The same energy, if it would have been engaged in producing food grain, then where is the poverty? (Someone enters) Oh! Hare Kṛṣṇa! Jaya.

Room Conversation with Press Representative -- March 21, 1975, Calcutta:

Prabhupāda: Realize the Supreme, that is the first and foremost aim, but at the same time, to keep the whole human society in perfect happiness, according to the direction of God. Just like I told you that Kṛṣṇa says, annād bhavanti bhūtāni. If you want to keep the living entities, both men and animal, you must arrange for their nice fooding. Who can deny this philosophy? But they are saying that poverty should be removed, and we must acquire food for the suffering and starving. But what they are doing? They are manufacturing motor tire, the rascals.

Guest: (Bengali)

Prabhupāda: (Bengali) There is no question of dharma. First of all we say they must live. That is our proposal. Where is the question of dharma? Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). Give everyone to eat sufficiently. This is our proposal.

Room Conversation with Two Lawyers and Guest -- May 22, 1975, Melbourne:

Guest 1: Yes, but people are changing now. You're getting the young people who for the first time in years are becoming aware and are getting interested in things outside their own town, their own individual state or whatever it is they have. You have people, the young people now are getting interested in things like poverty, they're interested in Bangladesh and so on. This is good. But you nonetheless have a very large proportion of the people who have got that idea of, "I'm all right, and I'll look after mine without taking the overall picture into account." And I think that so long as you have different concepts, different beliefs, it's going to be very hard to get into what you're talking about.

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is to be united first, that... First thing is that everyone should be convinced or understand clearly that everything belongs to God. But they have no conception of God even. That is the difficulty. The whole human society at the present moment, majority, they are Godless, especially the Communists. They don't acknowledge. The scientist, the philosopher, the scholars—all Godless. Scientists' special business is how to defy God. They say, "Science is everything. We can do everything by science." There is no need of God. Huh?

Morning Walk -- June 10, 1975, Honolulu:

Prabhupāda: Very much cut down, but it's very much increasing in another side.

Siddha-svarūpa: No, no, they have smallpox.

Harikeśa: In America there's no smallpox. So that means here...

Prabhupāda: That is all right. It is due to poverty, uncleanliness. So that is known to everyone. The smallpox takes place amongst the poorer class, unclean class. In India also, that is there. No gentleman's house, there is smallpox. Only these lower class, unclean.

Siddha-svarūpa: Where there's no facility for sanitation...

Prabhupāda: If you remain unclean, all diseases will come. Where is the cure?

Harikeśa: They also have this thing where they're freezing bodies just before they die.

Prabhupāda: That is another nonsense.

Morning Walk -- June 23, 1975, Los Angeles:

Prabhupāda: Even Dr. Radhakrishnan he did not believe Kṛṣṇa. So this is the disease. God comes personally and says, "Here I am." They won't believe. That is the difficulty.

Indian guest: Really, it is some kind of sanctifying to a person to come in contact with a real sādhu. In India I run into hundreds of sādhus, and I donate some money, but completely... Well, this poverty probably has brought this corruption, in that whole temple. I go to Benares and I go to Mathurā and I go to any temple, Badnatham(?), and those people only they are after money.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Indian guest: This has been over the... I don't know how it can be corrected, those holy places.

Prabhupāda: So you see, they are living within the sand... (laughter)

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Vegetable, grains, that's all. But something must be given. This is our program. So I saw yesterday the mayor. He came also very kindly. And you have come. So you consult yourself. This place or any place, give us some facility and see the result.

Lt. Mozee: Would you say that it should be done in an area of affluence or an area of poverty to begin with?

Prabhupāda: No, we have no distinction, such, but a place which is easily available for all kinds of men, that is very nice. There is no such condition that the only poor man will take benefit and the rich man, they do not require. Everyone requires. Do you think that the criminality is only in the poorer section?

Lt. Mozee: Oh, no.

Prabhupāda: Then? Everyone is a criminal, either he is a poor man or rich man. So we should not make such distinction, that only it is meant for the poor man.

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: Then? Everyone is a criminal, either he is a poor man or rich man. So we should not make such distinction, that only it is meant for the poor man.

Lt. Mozee: No, the distinction I was attempting to draw was would there be more benefit, would there be more of an influence, or would there be more of a strengthening if it were in an area of affluence rather than an area of poverty or vice versa?

Prabhupāda: No, no, no, that's... Our treatment is for the diseased person. So diseased person does not make any distinction of poor man and rich man. Rich man is also diseased, and poor man is also diseased, and everyone should be admitted in the hospital. So hospital should be in such a place where the poor man and rich man, both of them can come because all of them are diseased. So when one comes to the hospital there is no such thing as a poor man's hospital or rich man's. Hospital is hospital. And everyone being diseased, everyone should take advantage. But the difficulty is, as we are quoting the passage, that rich man, he thinks that he is not diseased.

Room Conversation with Lt. Mozee, Policeman -- July 5, 1975, Chicago:

Lt. Mozee: Oh, yes.

Prabhupāda: So our process is to cleanse the heart, not the opulence or poverty. No, that is not our... To cleanse the heart. If the poor man is cleansed in his heart he will not touch anybody's property. I heard that King, Emperor Edward VII, his habit was to steal.

Lt. Mozee: Yes, he was a kleptomaniac. (laughter)

Prabhupāda: And I have known many instances. In Calcutta one very rich man's son in the evening he would take his bath and dress nicely, and he would go to the Howrah station and beg, cheat men: "I have lost my purse. Will you kindly help me?" And any gentleman: "He has lost..." And he will go to the restaurant and eat and go home. That was his habit. He was a very rich man, but his habit was this. So we have to change the habit by changing the heart. You know very well. Many thieves, they have committed many times theft and put into the jail. So he knows that "If I commit theft, I will go to the jail." He has practically seen it, and he knows it. Still, he steals. Why? Because heart is unclean. So this process will cleanse the heart. Unless he cleans the heart, you cannot stop criminality simply by laws. Laws are already known. The professional thief, he knows the law.

Morning Walk -- July 10, 1975, Chicago:

Prabhupāda: My first step will be to capture all the hoarders and distribute the grains free. Immediately public will be obliged to... There are immense food grains; they are simply hoarded. They are not selling without good price. This is going on. Immediately she can capture the public. And some of the hoarders should be hanged, yes, so that in future nobody will hoard. People are hungry. And she says she has got some program, garivi hatta(?), "Drive away the poverty." This is the point. If she can supply all consumer goods for the time being free to the poor, then immediately the whole population will be after her. And the hoarders should be exemplary punished. Shoot them, that's all. Then nobody will hoard. But to remain the dictator she requires spiritual knowledge. Otherwise it will be another disaster. If she wants to remain the dictator, then she must be a spiritual man. She must become a Vaiṣṇavī. (end)

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: Yes. You can... Actually there is no need of economic development. But if you think it is required, you can do that. But don't forget your real business. That is our proposal. We don't condemn, but economic development... Just like in America. When I did not come here... Of course, I know that everywhere everything is there. But I thought that "America is very rich, there is no poverty. There is no crime because they are rich." But when I came here I saw everything is the..., as in India so in America. There is crime; there is poverty; everything is there. At least, they are voluntarily accepting poverty, just like hippies. Most of them are coming from rich family, rich father. But he has volunteered to lie down on the street. Why? Why he doesn't care for economic development?

Room Conversations -- July 26, 1975, Laguna Beach:

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, but that we see in India. On account of poverty, many men are lying on the footpath. And here also, in Europe, America, we see. Although he is coming from rich family, government is rich, government is endeavoring to take them back to nice place, they will not go. So these three classes of men-rich, middle class and poor—everywhere, either it is rich country or poor country. Then we have to accept: by nature it is so arranged that these three classes of men will exist. Then the question is "Where is the benefit of economic development?" If these three classes of men will exist anywhere, so where is the use of economic development? Even one is placed in developed economic condition, rich family, rich, he is accepting poverty voluntarily. And there is a big park in Amsterdam, that... You have been there?

Morning Walk -- August 7, 1975, Toronto:

Jagadīśa: Yesterday I saw a statistic saying that in the United States, 21% of the population is in poverty.

Prabhupāda: Hm. So?

Brahmānanda: But that poverty means that they earn five thousand dollars or less. Less than five thousand is the line.

Prabhupāda: Well, it is all proportionate, that... You are paying rent for this room where I am staying, $175 per month?

Uttamaśloka: It has just been changed to 175 from 150.

Prabhupāda: So out of five hundred dollars if you have to pay 175, rent, then why it is not poverty? Almost one third money is finished by paying rent. (break) ...seen in India the Narmada Falls? Huh? Jabalpur? Ah, it is wonderful.

Morning Walk -- November 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: ...poverty.

Dr. Patel: They have nothing to eat all the time. Ninety percent of the peasantry absolutely, completely wiped out during the Britishers' time. They never looked after them.

Prabhupāda: No, no. Poverty is the cause of nonretirement?

Dr. Patel: They have nothing to eat. They hardly get, I mean, two meals. Not square but even triangle. (laughs) They don't get any food in the mofices(?).

Prabhupāda: What is the question of mofices?(?) I am talking of...

Morning Walk -- November 17, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: But where is the question. Unless...

Dr. Patel: But how they have forgotten this is the greatest, I mean, mystery to me. Because the sādhus voluntarily, I mean, embrace poverty?

Prabhupāda: No, no.

Dr. Patel: All those, sir...

Prabhupāda: This service to Kṛṣṇa has disappeared on account of this māyāvāda philosophy.

Dr. Patel: You think so.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Morning Walk -- November 29, 1975, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: No, no. Then why in your country there are hippies lying on the street? Why? Why they have accepted poverty?

Harikeśa: That's a temporary thing.

Prabhupāda: India is poor and rich, and why they are voluntarily poor?

Harikeśa: That was because they were all intoxicated.

Prabhupāda: Then you cannot say that there is no poor. There is voluntarily poor. You cannot say there is no poor.

Harikeśa: Well, in our Russian system we are trying to abolish that poor by making, take money from the rich.

Morning Walk -- December 16, 1975, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: (aside:) Hare Kṛṣṇa, Jaya! (break) No. Why Karl Marx? Your Vivekananda says yata mat tata patha: whatever you manufacture, that is all right.

Dr. Patel: That is because you are struck by the utter poverty of the people...

Prabhupāda: No, no...

Dr. Patel: It was temporary, you see. Because here Karl Marx wanted it permanent, and...

Prabhupāda: He himself is suffering from poverty—of knowledge.

Dr. Patel: Karl Marx, he committed the greatest sin...

Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa says mam ekaṇ śaraṇaṁ vraja, and Vivekananda says yatha mat tatha path. Just see. He is poverty-stricken of knowledge, and he's giving knowledge. Just see the fun. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said guru more mūrkha dekhī' kori... śāsan: (CC Adi 7.71) "My guru found Me, seeing Me, I am a fool number one, he has chastised Me." What is that? "Don't read Vedānta; You cannot understand. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa," because...

1976 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 19, 1976, Mayapur:

Prabhupāda: Yes. No, why they should not try to be rich? If the rich man exploits them, that "You work in our land and take some salary," why they will work for that? They will go to the factory, will get more salary. This way Indira Gandhi cannot solve the poverty problem. They must take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like these soldiers, they for twenty years, simply eating and sleeping, and they are not engaged in cultivating-useless waste of time—and government has to maintain in big cantonment, big, big house, big, nice food, nice.... This is going on. Why the soldiers are maintained? It is waste of energy. They should have been engaged in tilling. Formerly the kings would give them free land. "You make your fortune—but on condition: when there is fight, you have to join."

Morning Walk -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Individual's freedom, when he is ignorant, it is not really freedom because it's completely under the control...

Prabhupāda: And when he gets the money, and he spends it, and he sees, "My poverty is gone," then he becomes thankful. "Oh, it is so merciful that he has given me this thing."

Ātreya Ṛṣi: The individual freedom, when he is in the mode of ignorance, is completely under the laws of material nature. When the individual makes spiritual advancement...

Prabhupāda: Individual freedom means.... We should always know our freedom is limited.

Ātreya Ṛṣi: Limited. Yes. But...

Conversation with News Reporters -- March 25, 1976, Delhi:

Hṛdayānanda: Yes, all coming from very nice families, the majority, education. Many, many of them coming from very wealthy families.

Prabhupāda: Now, if you should take good family means wealthy family, then America, there is no poor family. There is no question of poverty. So how do you distinguish that he's coming from good family, he's coming from bad family? Poverty is unknown to them. Nobody is uneducated. Then how you distinguish who is bad and who is good? Everyone is good—unless he voluntarily becomes bad, hippie. Otherwise everyone is coming from very good family, rich family, educated family.

Reporter (2): Do you have a large number of American negroes in your movement, Swamiji?

Prabhupāda: Not large number, but there are.

Morning Walk -- June 11, 1976, Los Angeles:

Rāmeśvara: One day America will be poor like that also.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Luxury leads to poverty. When the American becomes too much luxurious, they'll not be able to defend their country. Then it will be finished.

Rāmeśvara: That is the fear even now, that America has lost their fighting spirit against the Communists.

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes, yes. Yes. Vietnam. It is proof. When the Vietnam is attacked, American soldiers, they began to fly, flee away, became afraid. Naturally. They were not soldiers. They have no fighting spirit. By force they have been made soldiers. Let them take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness. America will be saved. (japa)

Room Conversation with Ambarisa and Catholic Priest -- June 14, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: (Hindi to Indian girl)

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: So how long can this civilization go on, simply producing automobiles, like this? So the situation is that the people are always in a state of poverty. Just like the black people here in Detroit. Even they are making sufficient money, still they are always in a state of poverty because they don't know how to live. Prabhupāda related one story that the capitalist and the worker, both of them, they went to the goddess of fortune appealing for a benediction. So the capitalist asked, "Give me such money that I will be able to work one day and it will last me for six months." And then the worker, he went and he said, "Give me one thousand dollars I have every day to spend."

Conversation with Clergymen -- June 15, 1976, Detroit:

Prabhupāda: That assistance means to.... First of all, a man is...

Scheverman: Feed the hungry, clothe the naked, visit the homeless.

Prabhupāda: A man is poor when he's in ignorance.

Scheverman: So you see that as a greater poverty, is the ignorance, rather than the physical poverty of not having enough food.

Prabhupāda: So food problem can be solved simply by accepting.... That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Find out. Annād bhavanti bhūtāni (BG 3.14). How everyone can.... Find out.

Dhṛṣṭadyumna: "All living bodies subsist on food grains which are produced from rains. Rains are produced by the performance of sacrifice, and sacrifice is born of prescribed duties."

Room Conversation and Reading from Srimad-Bhagavatam Canto 1 and 12 -- June 25, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Prabhupāda: Paṇḍita, if you can speak very vehemently, any subject matter, people may or may not understand, and they will certify you: "Oh, this man is very learned." "What you have learned from him?" "Oh, I could not understand, but he's spoke very nicely." He spoke very nicely. What is that nicely? That cāpala. (Prabhupāda speaks some gibberish) You go on speaking like that, (devotees laugh) and people will appreciate, "Oh, he's a big speaker!" What have you learned from him? Then?

Pradyumna: Anadhyataivasādhutve sādhutve dambha eva tu.

Prabhupāda: And if you are poor man, then you are not honest. That is the criterion. "Oh, here is a..." When the poor man comes, you'll not give place at your place. If he wants to stay, you'll refuse, "No." Because he's poor, he's immediately accepted as dishonest. He may be honest or dishonest, but poverty is a sign for accepting a man as dishonest. Then?

Room Conversation After Film -- June 28, 1976, New Vrindaban:

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Blind and lame.

Prabhupāda: India could not improve on account of poverty, lame. And America? Blind for want of culture. So let the blind man carry the lame man on the head, and the lame man give direction that "Go this way," and he walks. So both men's work is done. There is no hampering because one is blind and one is lame. Combined together, they get the benefit. Andha-paṅgor nyāya.

Rādhāvallabha: The book distributors use that example sometimes.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Rādhāvallabha: It works too.

Room Conversation With Scientists -- July 6, 1976, Washington, D.C.:

Prabhupāda: That we do not take care of atoms, we take gross estimation. Must be atomic differences. Just like gold and mercury, little atomic difference. And it is suggested that tin, copper, and mercury, proportionately mixed it will become gold.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: Once you told me that in Los Angeles.

Prabhupāda: Yes. Now you can do that experiment. Then our poverty will be... (laughter) It is fact. There are many yogis, they prepare gold by drinking mercury. They drink mercury, overnight, next morning they pass urine and dip copper coins in it. And then after some time the copper coins put into the fire, it becomes gold.

Svarūpa Dāmodara: That's alchemist.

Prabhupāda: Whatever it may be, they do that. But it is a fact that copper and tin and mercury proportionately mixed will produce gold.

Meeting With Member of Parliament, Mr. Krishna Modi -- August 31, 1976, Delhi:

Prabhupāda: So this is the real platform of United Nation. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati samaḥ sarveṣu (BG 18.54). At that time samaḥ sarveṣu. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. They have no demand. These boys they are working so hard. They never ask a single paisa from me. It is not possible for me to pay these foreigners as salaried man. That is not possible. They get minimum four thousand rupees minimum. Minimum salary America is $400 dollars. That means four thousand rupees. So and they are getting $800, $1200, $2000. And poverty is unknown in America. They do not know what is poverty. I see here the milk they are standing in block. You can get as much milk as you want anywhere you go, any shop you go you take immediately. Anything. Building materials. You simply order to the suppliers, immediately everything is there.

Room Conversation -- September 5, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: ...they're reading now. Here, although we have got books, nobody reads. But there they are reading. But nobody is... (microphone moving) That means they are concentrating (indistinct) with so many books. There are other books also. Why they cannot sell so many books. Unless public is interested... If one has read one part of Bhāgavatam, he has got some impression, and actually that is the... (break) One young gentleman came, I do not know where. He simply asked me, "Swamiji, can I talk with you?" "Yes, sit down." His first appreciation was, "Swamiji, where you have got so vast knowledge?" I have already told some of you. So these people, these Americans and Europeans, they are intelligent. They are seeing that here are some ideas which is not to be found throughout the whole world. Therefore they are purchasing. Actually, it is right here. Every verse, every śloka is so sublime, and if it is properly explained people must appreciate. There is no doubt about it. And they are doing that. In our country, due to the loss of our own culture and poverty, we have now taken, "Money is everything." Wherefrom you are coming?

Room Conversation -- November 3, 1976, Vrndavana:

Prabhupāda: Eh, (Hindi) In that night because in daytime it is so hot, it is embarrassing to cook and to digest also. Better take food, ah, fruit, this melon, and at night they take 3 or 4 cāpāṭis according to the... And good sleep. Very happy life it was, all over India. There was no question of poverty. People did not know what is poverty and now it is poverty. They do not get even sufficient food.

Hari-śauri: Industrialization.

Prabhupāda: Ugra-karma. I don't like industrialism.

Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (end)

Morning Walk and Room Conversation -- December 26, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no, this is all right. (break)

Dr. Patel: Only tired feel? (break) ...or may be due to poverty of heart action, or it may be due to some inaction on the part of the kidney or some collection of some obnoxious substances in the blood. That is why we must have an analysis done. So for a right understanding, we can advise you what to do. Anyone can write analysis, acidity and (indistinct).

Prabhupāda: Now, everything is less.

Dr. Patel: Then you stay here. And you're completely home, without anything. You are not prepared to... This is...

1977 Conversations and Morning Walks

Morning Walk -- January 6, 1976, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: It is not their words, but just to counter...

Dr. Patel: In fact, sir, Engels was a spiritualist, and his chela, Karl Marx, became materialist because he saw, accept poverty all round, due to the industrial revolution. He thought in that way.

Prabhupāda: As if he was ordained to do it.

Dr. Patel: But, well, he felt... He was a philosopher.

Prabhupāda: Such a rascal. He has moved poverty. He was in poverty-stricken...

Dr. Patel: He was extremely poor man. Yes, he died (indistinct). But that is what he thought.

Evening Darsana -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No, no, so-called poor.

D. D. Desai: That's it. Because the other day when I was reading Howard Hughes and his billion-dollar life, and then also Poli(?), I can say this much, that some of our poorest of Indians are far better off than these gentlemen.

Prabhupāda: Yes, culturally we are better off. Materially, we are certainly very poor. But because we are culturally advanced, even the actual poor man, he does not feel that he is in poverty.

D. D. Desai: Yes, that is the case. That is... There is a basic grace in poverty.

Prabhupāda: That is...

Room Conversation -- January 7, 1977, Bombay:

Dr. Patel: Good for them. The amount of money that has been wasted by America, that much money could have raised the standard of living the whole...

Prabhupāda: Money is no consideration.

Dr. Patel: Apart from that, sir, after all, it is a disease, poverty. If the people are out of poverty, then they will think about... First they'll think about God in the stomach. Then anywhere else.

Prabhupāda: No, no. This is not the fact.

Trivikrama: Out of poverty, then they'll think about wine and women.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Dr. Patel: But that is in America, not...

Prabhupāda: Everywhere. Everywhere.

Evening Darsana -- January 23, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: Udaraṁ bharatā. Dakṣyaṁ udaraṁ bhāratā. Bas, Kali-yuga. Somehow or other, if you can fill up your bellies, then you are very expert. That is going on. If you can maintain your family nicely, then you are dakṣya. Dakṣyaṁ udaraṁ bhāratā. These symptoms are there in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Because the Kali-yuga, it is so condemned that it will be difficult to maintain one's body and soul together, that udaraṁ bharita is very expert. He's maintaining. (laughs) Mandāḥ sumanda-matayo manda-bhāgyā (SB 1.1.10). All unfortunate, they have no certainty. In Western countries they have voluntarily given up regulative life, the hippies. No certainty where he shall eat, where he shall lie down. Voluntarily. Coming of very nice family. In Europe, America.... Especially in America there is no question of becoming poor. Everyone has got sufficient means. But still, voluntarily they have accepted this poverty. Voluntarily. A father is rich man. Grandfather is rich man. And besides that, the government maintains. If you have no engagement, the government will give you at least $25 per week. Is it not?

Room Conversation -- January 31, 1977, Bhuvanesvara:

Prabhupāda: What this material advance? You don't want to die; you have to die. Where is material advancement?

Hari-śauri: But there's no poverty or anything like that.

Prabhupāda: There is poverty. And "We are..." The same thing: "Mother, everything is all right. Simply there is no cloth, there is no food." You don't want to die. Nobody wants to die. Why you are dying? That is the real poverty. From the śāstra we understand, na hanyate hanyamāne śarī... (BG 2.20). Why I am under this tribulation?

Yogeśvara: So they may challenge, "Do you mean to say that you can feed the whole world without meat?"

Room Conversation -- April 5, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Jaya Prakash Narayan. Even in old days they were dealing with this politics. What they will do good to the people? But they do not know. This is disease. They do not study the whole history of the world. What Gandhi has done? What Hitler has done? What Napoleon has done? And what they will do? But they are applauded. "He is promising within one year poverty will be driven away." All false propaganda. Ahaṅkāra-vimūḍhātmā kartāham iti manyate (BG 3.27). Vimūḍhātmā. Rascals. They are promising so many things. They will never be able to do anything. And they are applauded.

Guest (1): I think they should be invited here to see what is being done.

Room Conversation about Harijanas -- April 10, 1977, Bombay:

Bhakti-caru: "As the nation observes this week the death anniversary of Dr. Amritsar, it behooves our news research to face a challenge 'for the plight of this downtrodden community.' " (break) "The story of the vast quantity of harijana in this ancient and illustrious land is a miserable story of shame and sorrow. Harassment and humiliation, operation and separation, poverty and pity. The harijana problems is not merely a social or religious or economic or political one. It is a complex problem involving many factors. It is, however, the most baffling national problem, posing a great challenge to the leaders, rulers and people of India."

Prabhupāda: On the whole—you read this article—why not say that "We can lead you to the highest perfection of cultural, social, religion." It will be...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: You want us to write a letter to the editor?

Prabhupāda: Not editor. The person who is the leader. Means the harijana movement.

Room Conversation with Ratan Singh Rajda M.P. 'Nationalism and Cheating' -- April 15, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: Yes. If not equal quality...

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: At least...

Prabhupāda: So we have to touch all these. Then poverty... And "Drive away poverty. Give them more money." More money means cheating. You are employing; I am employed. Begins from government. More money and printing, they are coming. If I have got power to print paper and distribute it as money, you are dissatisfied, getting hundred rupees, you want two hundred, so what is to me? I print and give you. This is artificial inflation.

Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: More money means printing more bills.

Prabhupāda: Yes.

Room Conversation -- April 19, 1977, Bombay:

Prabhupāda: No Indira Gandhi's news?

Bhakti-caru: (continues to read news articles) No... Indira Gandhi... "Infighting with Civic Congress Party leads to more powers for laborers." "Civil judge regrets motives against magistrates." (reads more headings and newspaper articles) " 'The revolutionary work of eliminating poverty and unemployment in the rural areas can be accomplished by a considerable extent through the khādi and village industries. To achieve these objectives modern technology must be used to rise to the extent possible.' He hopes the new commission would take steps in this direction." (continues reading news articles; Prabhupāda is silent)

Prabhupāda: Hm. Hm. That's all. (break)

Girirāja: ...lal to meet you. So far, he hasn't shown himself to be too...

Prabhupāda: Hm?

Page Title:Poverty (Conversations)
Compiler:Visnu Murti, RupaManjari
Created:18 of Mar, 2012
Totals by Section:BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=62, Let=0
No. of Quotes:62