"The Supreme Personality of Godhead," he said, "is the cause of victory and defeat. Not knowing that the Supreme Lord is the cause of all causes, fools and rascals try to take credit for victory or defeat themselves, but everything is actually under the control of the Lord. No one but Him has any independence. The puruṣa (the enjoyer) and prakṛti (the enjoyed) are under the control of the Lord, for it is by His supervision that everything works systematically. Not seeing the hand of the Supreme in every action, a fool considers himself the ruler and controller of everything. When one understands, however, that the real controller is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, he is freed from the relativities of the world, such as distress, happiness, fear and impurity." Thus Indra and Vṛtrāsura not only fought, but also engaged in philosophical discourses. Then they began to fight again.
Philosophical discussion
Expressions researched:
"discussion of philosophy"
|"philosophical discourse"
|"philosophical discourses"
|"philosophical discussion"
|"philosophical discussions"
Srimad-Bhagavatam
SB Canto 1
Droṇācārya was informed of Arjuna's presence in the fight of the Kurus and the Virāṭas. Later, on the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra, Arjuna killed many great generals like Karṇa and others. After the Battle of Kurukṣetra, he punished Aśvatthāmā, who had killed all the five sons of Draupadī. Then all the brothers went to Bhīṣmadeva.
It is due to Arjuna only that the great philosophical discourses of the Bhagavad-gītā were again spoken by the Lord on the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra. His wonderful acts on the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra are vividly described in the Mahābhārata. Arjuna was defeated, however, by his son Babhruvāhana at Maṇipura and fell unconscious when Ulūpī saved him.
SB Canto 2
This transcendental knowledge is unknown to the forgotten conditioned souls. Śrīla Vyāsadeva, who is the incarnation of the Lord, thus compiled the Vedic literatures to revive the lost memory of the conditioned souls about their eternal relation with the Lord. One should therefore try to understand the Vedic scriptures, or the nectar transferred by the Lord to His consorts in the conjugal humor, from the lotuslike mouth of Vyāsadeva or Śukadeva. By gradual development of transcendental knowledge, one can rise to the stage of the transcendental arts of music and dance displayed by the Lord in His rāsa-līlā. But without having the Vedic knowledge one can hardly understand the transcendental nature of the Lord's rāsa dance and music. The pure devotees of the Lord, however, can equally relish the nectar in the form of the profound philosophical discourses and in the form of kissing by the Lord in the rāsa dance, as there is no mundane distinction between the two.
SB Canto 6
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta
CC Adi-lila
Astonished that the child was speaking Māyāvāda philosophy, mother Śacī replied, "Who has taught You this philosophical speculation that justifies eating dirt?"
In the philosophical discourse between the mother and the son, when the son said that everything is one, as impersonalists say, the mother replied, "If everything is one, why do people in general not eat dirt but eat the food grains produced from the dirt?"
CC Madhya-lila
Rāmānanda Rāya continued, "According to the Bhagavad-gītā, "One who is thus transcendentally situated at once realizes the Supreme Brahman and becomes fully joyful. He never laments or desires to have anything. He is equally disposed toward every living entity. In that state he attains pure devotional service unto Me.""
In this verse from the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that a person who accepts the theory of monism—being always engaged in empiric philosophical discussions about spiritual life—becomes joyful and is relieved from all material lamentation and hankering. At that stage, one is equipoised. He sees all living entities as spiritual beings. After attaining this elevated stage, one can attain pure devotional service. The conclusion is that devotional service mixed with ritualistic fruitive activity is inferior to spiritual service based on empiric philosophic discussion.
One has to develop his devotional service under the directions of a pure devotee, the spiritual master, and in accordance with the Vedic directions given in the Pañcarātra and Bhāgavata systems. The Pañcarātra system includes methods of temple worship, and the Bhāgavata system includes the spreading of Kṛṣṇa conscious philosophy through the recitation of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam and the discussion of philosophy with people who are interested. Through discussion, one can create an interest and understanding of the Pañcarātra and Bhāgavata systems.
The three types of egotism (ahaṅkāra) are technically known as vaikārika, taijasa and tāmasa. The mahat-tattva is situated within the heart, or citta, and the predominating Deity of the mahat-tattva is Lord Vāsudeva (SB 3.26.21). The mahat-tattva is transformed into three divisions: (1) vaikārika, egotism in goodness (sāttvika-ahaṅkāra), from which is manifested the eleventh sense organ, the mind, whose predominating Deity is Aniruddha (SB 3.26.27–28); (2) taijasa, or egotism in passion (rājasa-ahaṅkāra), from which are manifested the active and knowledge-acquiring senses, along with the intelligence, whose predominating Deity is Lord Pradyumna (SB 3.26.29–31); and (3) tāmasa, or egotism in ignorance, from which sound vibration (śabda-tanmātra) expands. From sound vibration, the sky (ākāśa) is manifested, and then the senses, beginning with the sense of hearing, are also manifested (SB 3.26.32). Of these three types of egotism, Lord Saṅkarṣaṇa is the predominating Deity. In the philosophical discourse known as the Sāṅkhya-kārikā, it is stated, sāttvika ekādaśakaḥ pravartate vaikṛtād ahaṅkārāt—bhūtādes tan-mātraṁ tāmasa-taijasādy-ubhayam.
Other Books by Srila Prabhupada
Renunciation Through Wisdom
The austerities a monist performs are painful both during the initial stage of practice (sādhana) and when he has supposedly reached perfection. The impersonalists suffer excruciating pains trying to establish the oneness of matter and spirit through speculative theories. Thinking that Brahman is impotent, through sophistry they try to equate the Lord's inferior, material energy with His superior, spiritual energy, thus reaping ridicule from truly learned circles. In attempting to prove that the Absolute Truth cannot be the Supreme Personality of Godhead with unlimited energies, they argue that this would mean immutable Brahman is actually mutable. Thus their logic loses all cohesion and they become a laughingstock. In trying to refute the established theory of pariṇāma-vāda, or the "transformation of energy," they accuse Śrīla Vyāsadeva of being mistaken when he says that the material universe and the living entities are all transformations of the Lord's energy and are therefore real, not false. Thus in their philosophical discussions the monists reject the main purport and essence of all Vedic scriptures and their corollaries and hang on to nonessential injunctions, such as tat tvam asi, "You are that." They like to deliberate on these subpoints, but when confronted with the arguments of a learned Vaiṣṇava, they turn and run from the battlefront.
Besides these out-and-out impersonalists, there is a certain group of devotees that has deviated from the path of pure devotion and fallen prey to pretension. These cheaters actually end up following the impersonalists' path of trying to merge with the Supreme Lord. Such materialistic sentimentalists are not counted among the devotees of the Lord. Like their impersonalist counterparts, they cannot understand the true position of the Supreme Lord's name, form, qualities, pastimes, associates, or paraphernalia, for they wrongly consider these transcendental subjects illusory. They act capriciously and confuse the mass of people.
These materialistic sentimentalists reject the spiritual conclusions of Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī and try and take shelter of impersonalism. Yet they miserably lack the scholarship and discipline of the impersonalists. They divorce themselves from the impersonalists' scriptural studies and philosophical discussions, regarding discussions on the scripture as dry speculation and their ignorant, sentimental outbursts as spontaneous devotional fervour.
To shed more light on the meaning of the Upaniṣadic aphorism sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma, we cite a verse from the Viṣṇu Purāṇa (1.22.56):
- eka-deśa-sthitasyāgner
- jyotsnā vistārinī yathā
- parasya brahmaṇaḥ śaktis
- tathedam akhilaṁ jagat
"A fire radiates light all around although remaining in one spot. Similarly, the Supreme Brahman radiates energy everywhere, which is manifested as this material world."
In their philosophical discussions the Māyāvādīs deny the existence of the Supreme Lord's multifarious energies. Such sub-standard debates are indeed on the kindergarten level. According to Śrīla Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Ṭhākura, the Māyāvādīs have a poor fund of knowledge and are thus prevented from understanding that the Supreme Brahman is full with six opulences. To save these poor Māyāvādī impersonalists from philosophical impoverishment, Lord Kṛṣṇa has mercifully instructed them in the Bhagavad-gītā (7.19),
- bahūnāṁ janmanām ante
- jñānavān māṁ prapadyate
- vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti
- sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ
"After many births and deaths, he who is actually in knowledge surrenders unto Me, knowing Me to be the cause of all causes and all that is. Such a great soul is very rare."
Lectures
Bhagavad-gita As It Is Lectures
And dravyamaya-yajña means, just like yesterday, day before yesterdays, discussed that in the altar of fire we have to sacrifice clarified butter, grains, or sometimes animal sacrifice. They are called dravyamaya-yajña. So Kṛṣṇa says, śreyān dravyamayād yajñāt. That dravyamaya, that sacrificing goods or other things in the yajña, from that type of yajña, śreyān dravyamayād yajñāj jñāna-yajñaḥ parantapa. Jñāna-yajña, this philosophical discussion, logical discussion of the aim of life from authorized books like Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, if we have discussion, this is called jñānamaya-yajña, with knowledge, jñānamaya-yajña.
Now, this verse we are discussing in our last meeting. Śrī Kṛṣṇa, Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, has concluded that all kinds of sacrifices that we can expected, we are expected to do, the best sacrifice is to acquire knowledge, acquire knowledge. Because whole, our this material conditioned life is due to ignorance. Therefore the purpose of sacrifice, penance, yoga, and philosophical discussion, everything—the ultimate aim is to acquire knowledge.
Now, Lord Kṛṣṇa says, "O Dhanañjaya, Arjuna, anyone who is working in the Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or yoga..." Yoga means God conscious, or Kṛṣṇa conscious. Everything, anything, any attempt, which we perform, which we do for spiritual realization is called yoga. Yoga. So there are many different kinds of yoga, but they have been divided into three: the jñāna-yoga, karma-yoga, and bhakti-yoga. Jñāna-yoga means realization of self by culture of philosophical discussion. That is called jñāna-yoga. And dhyāna-yoga... Oh. And karma-yoga... Karma-yoga means that the ordinary persons who are engaged in working...
And where you shall do, what you shall do there? Some philosophers think that that spiritual atmosphere must be impersonal, impersonal, void. There are some philosophers, they think like that, that "There is. We accept the spiritual atmosphere." The impersonalists, Śaṅkarites, even the Buddhists, they also, some way or other, they accept that there is the voidness. But the Bhagavad-gītā does not disappoint you in that way. That voidness philosophy has created atheism. Because, just try to understand clearly, I am spiritual being. I want enjoyment. That is my life. I want enjoyment. But as soon as my future is void, I must be inclined to enjoy this material life. Therefore they simply discuss this voidness impersonalism, but they enjoy as much as possible this material life. Simply armchair philosophical discussion. But as soon as we see their behavior, they're too much attached with the material enjoyment. So that is simply you can enjoy some speculation. That's all. But there is no benefit.
Now, to act in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the devotional service, you can understand it, how happily it is done. Now, take for example what we are doing here. We are singing, we are dancing, we are taking nice prasādam offered to Kṛṣṇa and chanting and discussing Bhagavad-gītā philosophy. Oh, these are the processes. These are the processes. We are not meant for any stringent rules and regulation or gymnastic or breathing control, so many things, as they are described and they are performed by many different sections. But here it is very easy and happily done. Everyone wants to dance. Everyone wants to sing. Everyone wants to eat. Through this formula—dancing, singing and eating Kṛṣṇa prasāda and hearing philosophical discussion, transcendental topics from Bhagavad-gītā—so don't you think it is very happy? Susukham. And whatever we acquire, it is permanent. Whatever knowledge you acquire, that is permanent. That is not going to be finished with the finish of your body. It is such a nice thing.
The Lord says, "I am the only enjoyer, beneficiary of all kinds of sacrifices." Ahaṁ hi bhoktā. Ahaṁ hi sarva-yajñānāṁ bhoktā. Bhoktā means enjoyer. Just like in the office, or in the factory, so many workers, they are working day and night, producing money, but who is the bhoktā? Who is the enjoyer? The enjoyer is the proprietor. They are not enjoyer. They are laborers. They are workers. Similarly the, the, any kind of worship, any kind of sacrifice, any kind of charity, any kind of penance, any kind of austerity, any kind of philosophical discussion, any kind of meditation... There are so many things recommended for self-realization or the Supreme Absolute Truth realization. So Lord Kṛṣṇa says, "Of all those processes, the ultimate beneficiary is I am, Myself, Lord Kṛṣṇa." Ahaṁ hi sarva-yajñānāṁ bhoktā prabhur eva ca. "Master." Prabhu means master. Na tu mām abhijānanti: "People do not know Me," na tu mām abhijānanti, "that 'Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Enjoyer, the Absolute Enjoyer.'"
Srimad-Bhagavatam Lectures
So here Parīkṣit Mahārāja, digvijayāya. Digvijaya. Vijaya means to own victory, conquering. Just like Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu argued with a digvijaya-paṇḍita. There were several kinds of digvijaya. A learned scholar also would travel all over the world and challenge the other scholars about philosophical discussion, literary credit, so many other fields of activities. So one digvijaya-paṇḍita came from Kashmir. He got victory all over India and then came to Navadvīpa, Nadia. Because Nadia, still there are many, many learned scholars, and in those days, it was simply full of learned scholars. Some of the Indian cities were famous for learned scholars, like Navadvīpa, Nadia, Vārāṇasī, and there were several places, in Garabanga,(?) in the southern India also, there is a place. So there were several places where different schools, Māyāvādīs... Chiefly there are two schools of transcendental subject matter, namely the Māyāvādī school and the Vaiṣṇavas. So Māyāvādīs, were there in Vārāṇasī, mostly. And Vaiṣṇavas also they have their place, especially in Navadvīpa, Vṛndāvana, like that. So one digvijaya-paṇḍita, Keśava Kāśmīrī, he also came to Navadvīpa. He got victory in all other cities, but when he came to Navadvīpa, he became defeated, because Caitanya Mahāprabhu was there.
Para, the Supreme Lord, Absolute Truth, has multi-energy. So the multi-energy is divided into three division. That is called antaraṅga-śakti, internal energy, external energy, and the marginal energy. All of them are energies, or prakṛti. So in the Sāṅkhya philosophical discussion, Devahūti—she is also the mother of Kapiladeva—she asked this intelligent question: "What are the characteristic of the prakṛti, and what are the characteristic of the puruṣa?" Prakṛteḥ puruṣasyāpi lakṣaṇaṁ puruṣottama. He (she) is addressing his (her) son, Kapiladeva, God, as Puruṣottama. Uttama puruṣa. Uttam a, madhyama, and adhama. There is a comparative. So uttama puruṣa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa, or His incarnation like Kapiladeva, Ṛṣabhadeva. There are many incarnations. So they are all Puruṣottama.
Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Lectures
Lord Caitanya's pastimes going on, still going on, but some of the fortunate devotees, they can see. Anything, God's pastimes, that is perceivable through devotional service. Bhaktyā mām abhijānāti (BG 18.55). Only way. This is the process. No other process. No amount of speculation, no amount of academic education, no amount of philosophical discussion can..., one can... It is confirmed in the Vedic literature: nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhya, na bahunā śrutena. Na ayam ātmā... This self-realization is not possible. Nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhya, simply by discussion, nobody can arrive. Nobody can understand what is self-realization, what is Supreme Soul, the Absolute Truth. Nāyam ātmā pravacanena, na medhayā. Medhayā means one who is, who has got very good brain substance, he also cannot. Simply by agitating the brain, brain substance, one cannot understand. Nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhya, na bahunā śrutena, na medhayā. Śrutena, one who is highly educated, very good scholar, he also cannot understand. Then, what is the pro...? Janena saba puruṣe tena labhya: a person to whom God reveals Himself, he can understand. So we have to wait for that and for God's mercy. We have to be engaged in loving, transcendental service, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then He'll reveal.
General Lectures
So Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī, he was a great Vedāntist. He did not like the idea. He said, "Oh, He is a pseudo sannyāsī. He is chanting and dancing. This is not the business of a sannyāsī. This is the... Sannyāsī should always engage himself in the study of philosophy and Vedānta, and He is simply chanting and dancing?" So he remarked that "He's a pseudo sannyāsī. He is not actually sannyāsa." Then one of the devotees, he did not like the idea, remark of Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī. He came back and informed Lord Caitanya that "These people are blackmailing You. I cannot tolerate this. So if something can be done to stop this blackmailing?" So that's a long history. So one devotee, he arranged the meeting of all the sannyāsīns, and Caitanya Mahāprabhu was also invited, and there was Vedānta philosophical discussion between Prakāśānanda Sarasvatī and Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. This description and philosophical discussions are given in our Teachings of Lord Caitanya, and it is very nice that Prakāśānanda himself with his, all his disciples, they became Vaiṣṇavas. The idea is... Similarly, Caitanya Mahāprabhu had a great discussion with Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya, the greatest logician of that time. He was also Māyāvādī, impersonalist.
So those paramparā system, line of disciplic succession, are still existing in India. Practically, India's spiritual life is still being controlling by these lines of disciplic succession. So all these ācāryas, according to the Vaiṣṇava ācārya... Vaiṣṇava ācāryas, there are four ācāryas. Śrī Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Nimbārka, and Viṣṇu Svāmī. And those who are not Vaiṣṇavas, impersonalists, they are represented by Śaṅkarācārya. Even Śaṅkarācārya, from whom we differ in philosophical discussion... Not very much different—so far the procedure is concerned, the regulative principles are concerned, they are all the same. The only difference is that Śaṅkarācārya's sampradāya, they take the ultimate Absolute Truth as impersonal, and we Vaiṣṇavas, we take the Absolute Truth as person. But Śaṅkarācārya, in his later stage, he also admitted in a different way.
Conversations and Morning Walks
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Yogeśvara: You didn't find it necessary to enter into any kind of discussion with this French Professor just now. There was no real discussion of philosophy. I was wondering why that didn't happen.
Prabhupāda: He did not raise any question. And he is simply translator. He has no philosophy. I asked him "Which philosophy you are...?" "So I make comparative study." I think he did not like to enter into philosophical... Is it not?
Correspondence
1947 to 1965 Correspondence
In the midst of his multifarious duties, Gandhiji never missed to attend to his randhun kirtana meeting. This is one of the soundest method for the culture of devotion to God. In the opinion of Srimad-Bhagavatam, one who is imbibed with the devotion of Godhead is also endowed with all the good qualities of the gods. But one who is not a devotee of Godhead, has not any value for his good qualities because he utilizes his so called good qualities for ulterior purposes. As such the easy way to raise the moral standard of people in general, is to make this sankirtana movement more popular all over the world by philosophical discourses based on reasoning and moral and ethical codes. The Vaisnava acaryas especially Lord Caitanya and his six Gosvami disciples give us ample opportunity and scope for this work. Lord Caitanya first inaugurated the sankirtana or randhun movement and the later Gosvamis supported it by scholarly philosophical synthesis. The six sandarbhas by Srila Jiva Goswami are marvelous in this respect.
The method of His demonstration was also very suitable. He inaugurated the sankirtana movement accompanied with melodious song which method has been found practically very effective amongst the masses. It is not possible for the masses to study the Vedanta or to undergo the difficult mystic processes especially in the Kali-yuga when the general people is indolent, unfortunate, shortlived and always disturbed by physical and mental tribulations. So they the general mass of people are fallen in the estimation of the great saints and as such for them Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is the only hope for deliverance. When Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu visited Varanasi He was invited to a philosophical discourse by the Prakashananda Sarasvati a great giant scholar and sannyasi of the Mayavadi or Sankara sampradaya and discussion was made on the Vedanta philosophy. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was victorious in that discussion and converted the great sannyasi with his 60,000 followers to His cult of devotion and established His easy method of sankirtana movement the most suitable method for the deliverance of the people in general.
I believe that practical solution of world unrest is lying in the transcendental message of Sri Krishna the Personality of Godhead as given by Him lately in the Bhagavad-gita.
In this sacred philosophical discourse the Supreme Godhead declares Himself as the begetting father, who impregnates the seeds of living entities in the womb of mother nature who in turn gives birth to all varieties of living entities or species. So the plain truth is that the Supreme Godhead the Father, the nature material is the mother and all living entities are so many children of almighty father Godhead, and the mother nature. The whole arrangement is just a family unit, and we should wonder as to why there is so much anomaly in this great universal family unit.
On the conclusion of the All Religious Conference held at Bombay very recently, I may submit that nothing practical has come out of it for uniting the different faiths of the world. The practical solution is lying in the transcendental message of Sri Krishna the Personality of Godhead as given by Him lately in the Bhagavad-gita.
In this sacred philosophical discourse the Supreme Godhead declares Himself as the begetting Father who impregnates the seeds of living entities in the womb of Mother Nature who in turn gives birth all varieties of living species. So the plain truth is that the Supreme Godhead is the Father, the Nature is the Supreme Mother and all living entities so many children of Almighty Father Godhead and the Mother Nature. The whole arrangement is therefore a family unit and one should wonder as to why there is so much anomaly in this universal family affair.
1968 Correspondence
Kirtana means both lecturing and chanting with music. The chanting with music is specially attractive for the mass of people, but talking from philosophical point of view on Krishna Consciousness is also chanting. The whole Srimad-Bhagavatam is full of philosophical discussions and we are prepared to present our Krishna Consciousness movement both ways, whichever is suitable in special circumstances. If Mr. Renovich is interested only in philosophical discussions, we are prepared for that. But at the same time we are concerned mostly with the mass of people, therefore Hare Krishna kirtana is our life and soul. So there is no problem if Mr. Renovich is especially interested in scholarly philosophical discussions.
Regarding the article suggested by Rayarama, you are correct in your doubts that Radha-Krishna lila should not be discussed in Back To Godhead. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam there are so many philosophical discussions and we should concentrate on these philosophical aspects. Otherwise the less intelligent will surely understand Radha-Krishna lila as simply nonsense boy and girl sex life. Hanuman Prasad Poddar and company are all mundane types and they have no entrance into actual spiritual activities. Superficially they pose themselves as great devotees, but we can feel their pulse; ultimately they are impersonalists. We should not depend upon writings from such unauthorized sources.
1971 Correspondence
Please try to distribute our books very very widely in all languages. That will push our movement very rapidly. We are now preparing a book on philosophical discussions. Syamasundara. is daily discussing with me the views of the different Western philosophers and we are studying them from the ISKCON point of view. This work is going on regularly and Aravinda is typing them regularly. So very soon a book will come out. When I go back to India I shall review all the Indian systems of philosophy also, from this angle of vision, so that this book will be very much interesting to the student class in the schools and the colleges. Try to encourage all our centers to go to the schools and colleges and introduce our philosophy, books and literatures.
I am pleased also to learn that you are teaching university course in Krishna Consciousness. Try to make this program very stimulating for all the students at the university by challenging anyone and everyone to try to defeat our Krishna philosophy with their philosophy. If such discussions can be held they will be very lively and the student body may take note and enroll in increased number. Philosophy is the highest knowledge, but even higher than philosophy is the practice of philosophy. So if your students can be enticed to practice Krishna philosophy, they will feel the practical benefit and become convinced, that is Lord Caitanya's process. As more students become involved in our philosophical discussions, you will be able to sell them our books. I want that my books and literatures should be very widely distributed, as many as possible.
| Page Title: | Philosophical discussion |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, Labangalatika |
| Created: | 13 of Dec, 2008 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=3, CC=4, OB=3, Lec=11, Con=1, Let=8 |
| No. of Quotes: | 30 |