Prabhupāda: That is the unifying center. That I will convince you. He is the unifying center actually. And Bhagavad-gītā it is said, mama vartmānuvartante manuṣyāḥ partha sarvaśaḥ. "Everyone is trying to come to Me. Everyone is trying to come to Me." Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante (BG 4.11). "But he's realizing Me in My different phases. But everyone is trying." So so far unifying religion is concerned there are three groups: impersonalists, personalists, and localized. Some are trying to understand the Absolute Truth in impersonal way. Some are... The yogis, the mental speculators, they are trying to understand the Absolute in impersonal, without any personal form. And the yogis, they are trying to find out Kṛṣṇa within their heart, meditation. And some are trying to find out the Absolute Truth in person by reciprocating love. So all these things are in Kṛṣṇa.
Phases (Conversations)
Conversations and Morning Walks
1969 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Now, Absolute Truth is always one. There is no... Absolute Truth cannot be two. Then it is relative truth. Absolute Truth means one. So the knowledge of the Absolute Truth is one. Vadanti tat tattva-vidas (SB 1.2.11). Tattva-vidas means those who are in knowledge of the Absolute Truth, they say that Absolute Truth is one. But He's realized in three phases. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate. Brahman means impersonal, and Paramātmā is localized, and Bhagavān, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So these are different stages. Just like the sun. The first experience of sun is this impersonal effulgence all over the sky. But that is not very important than the sun globe. Because it is from the sun globe the effulgence is coming. So anyone will understand that this sunshine is not so important as the sun globe. And if you approach the sun globe and if you penetrate into the sun, if you have got strength to go into the... Just like you are trying go to the moon planet.
1972 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. So the article is nice. So one thing is that we are simply interested for a temporary object, but we are eternal. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre (BG 2.20). We do not die. We simply change bodies. Just like these children, they are changing bodies from babyhood to childhood, from childhood to youthhood, the changing bodies. The final change is called death. That means, final change means, giving up this body, we accept again another babyhood body, again begin. This is going on. And this is called māyār bośe, jāccho bhese. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ (BG 3.27). We are being washed away by the waves of māyā. We are forced to accept a certain type of body, again give it up, again forced to, under 8,400,000 species of life. We do not know, next life what kind of body we are going to get. People should be careful about this. But they are simply interested with this short duration of life, say fifty years or hundred years. But they do not... There is no education, there is no university, that "Everyone is eternal. He should not be engaged only the changing phases of life.
Prabhupāda: That's all. The finger, so long it is serving my body like this, like this, it is in real condition, real, healthy condition. And if it is painful—it cannot serve—then it is not in healthy condition. So therefore any living entity who is not serving Kṛṣṇa, he is not in healthy condition. He is in māyā. Anyone who is not in Kṛṣṇa's service, he is in māyā. That is, Kṛṣṇa says,
- mamaivāṁśo jīva-loke
- jīva-bhūtaḥ sanātanaḥ
- manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi
- prakṛti-sthāni karṣati
- (BG 15.7)
He is struggling hard within this material nature because he is not serving Kṛṣṇa. Therefore his punishment is to struggle hard in different species of life. There are 8,400,000 species of life, and he is transmigrating but becoming happy this way or that way, that way, that way. Just like you have come to America to become happy. Is it not? Otherwise why you left? Similarly, we are transmigrating from one country to another, one planet to another, one body to another, searching after happy, happiness. That is struggle for existence. So Kṛṣṇa says, "They are My part and parcel. Instead of serving Me, they are serving their mind and senses." Manaḥ-ṣaṣṭhānīndriyāṇi prakṛti-sthāni karṣati (BG 15.7). So long we serve our senses and mind we remain in this material world, prakṛti-sthāni. And as soon as we revive our real consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness—we serve Kṛṣṇa—that is liberation. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja (BG 18.66). That is the ultimate instruction. So instead of serving the senses, kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā, just like serving the country, serving the family, something, the wife, and serving the husband, serving the father—all the services are different phases of kāma. Kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśāḥ. So at the present moment we are serving our senses. When the sense service will be transferred to Kṛṣṇa, that is liberation. And this is bondage.
1973 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: By logic, by science. Anyway, that we have to make program. Because this is most misleading. The whole human society is affected by this misleading theory. We have to make program, go from place to place and invite all big men, all scientists. That program we have to make. We cannot allow this nonsense theory to go on. We must make something. Brahmānanda, how to make this? This is a fact, that, that life comes from life. In another sense life does not come. Life is existing. It is not exactly the word that life generates, no. Life is existing. The matter is generated. Matter is generating, and it stays for some time, again it is vanished. Just like this body. This body is born at a certain date, and it will be finished at a certain date. This is matter. (break) The wood was born at a certain date from the tree. It remains green for certain time. Then it is not green, dry. Then, after some time, it will be finished. Matter is not permanent. Matter is changing. Ṣaḍ-vikāra. Six kinds of changes, matter. Birth, then growing... Matter grows also. Just like the body has grown. It was very small, pea-like body in the beginning, and it grows. So birth, growth, maintenance for some time, then by-product. There are some by-products. And then dwindling, then finished. This is matter. But life has no such change. When the life is within the matter, it appears that it is taking birth or death. Life will come. One phase of this change, accept. And when it cannot be maintained anymore, just like this body, when it is too old it cannot maintain. Just like dress. When it is too old we change.
Prabhupāda: Yes but daily we see it is covered. Why? That means?
Śrutakīrti: The tides go in and out.
Prajāpati: The phases of the moon, Śrīla Prabhupāda, affect the tides.
Prabhupāda: That I know. Or due to this moon, yes. Now it will go down. After this full moon. Yes. (break)
Prajāpati: ...Christmas, Śrīla Prabhupāda. They'd be better off celebrating the fact that you're here.
Prabhupāda: I say that they are not Christian. They're all atheists. Christians, one who is actually Christian, he's good. But they are not Christians. They do not believe in Christ. Neither in his words. So what kind of Christian they are?
Hṛdayānanda: They're such rascals that some of the young student so-called Christians, they even preach that.
Prabhupāda: I see. So... Oh, you have no seat? They are giving him? All right. So from Bhagavad-gītā we understand that Bha... Just like in this planet we are so many persons, or the President Nixon is the President. Similarly, in every planet there are living entities, and the President of the sun planet is called Vivasvān. So he was instructed by Kṛṣṇa long, long ago. In the higher planetary system, the time is different. That was proved when the Russian aeronautics were on the sky. In one hour twenty-five minutes, he went round the earth, twice or thrice, like that. So time is different. So the point is... Just like the sunshine is impersonal, the sun is localized, and the president of the sun globe is a person, similarly, the Absolute Truth is realized in three phases. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate (SB 1.2.11). The first realization is impersonal, then localized, and then personal. So ultimately, God is person.
1974 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Yes, so that I am explaining. The sound is there. God consciousness is there, sound as the God consciousness, but in different phases the development is there differently. That is the principle. Everyone has got God consciousness. There is no doubt about it.
Dr. Patel: We come to you, sir, to serve your disciples in the best way we can do because to serve a disciple is to serve God.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then, that means it is being developed. That śānta-rasa is being developed to dāsya-rasa.
Dr. Patel: But sometimes disciples don't like our service.
Prabhupāda: ...may be because it was Bhagavad-gītā, they stopped me.
Dr. Patel: This is a phase of the government. The government is not the people. (break) (Heavy wind noise throughout)
Prabhupāda: ...people everywhere good.
Dr. Patel: But the Russians are really good.
Prabhupāda: Only the... People everywhere, all over the world, they are all good. Only the leaders make them bad. That's all. That is my opinion. Misleaders. Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhas tat tad evetaro janaḥ (BG 3.21). The so-called śreṣṭha, leaders, they... Just like in India. When Gandhi was there it was prohibition, and now there is wine shop every step. It is due to the leaders. People, people, what the innocent people, what they'll do?
Dr. Patel: You are talking of this, but I am the knower of the private character of so many businessman.
Prabhupāda: Why you know? Everyone knows.
1975 Conversations and Morning Walks
Rūpānuga: Read that other verse.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: In this respect I wanted to phase this on (indistinct) that ultimate research, that brahma-jijñāsā.
Prabhupāda: Brahma-jijñāsā. That is beginning of knowledge, what is the absolute truth?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: That is the research topic.
Prabhupāda: Mm. Now this subject matter should be taken up seriously in the human form of life, that is the suggestion. Atha, atha, ataḥ, now you have got this human form of life, therefore you discuss about the absolute truth. Paraṁ satyaṁ dhīmahi. Yes?
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Next one is, next chapter is "Matter Originates from Life." That one of Dāsa (?) Prabhu's. And on the eleventh chapter there will be (indistinct)...
Prabhupāda: No. That, that is also beginning of understanding. But first, preliminary understanding should be that God is one. There cannot be Christian God. There cannot be Hindu God. There cannot be Muslim God. That is not complete idea of God. That is imperfect. Just like in Vedic literature, brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti: (SB 1.2.11) three phases of understanding of the Absolute. First, beginning, is Brahman, then, further advanced, Paramātmā, then, final advancement, Bhagavān. Similarly, the final realization of God is the Supreme Person. And then we should seek (see?) who is that person. That is real theology.
Pañcadraviḍa: What if they say, "We agree there's one God, but we do not agree that His name is Kṛṣṇa" or "We do not agree..."
Prabhupāda: ...which is fact? The dreams and phases of different life while passing through, they are facts or I am fact? What is your answer? We are teaching that, you take care of the fact, not of the dreams. That is our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. That is the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā, dehino 'smin yathā dehe kaumāraṁ yauvanaṁ jarā, tathā dehāntara-prāptiḥ (BG 2.13). We are changing circumstances. The circumstances are not fact but the whole world is taking care of the circumstances not of the sheer fact. This is the defect of modern civilization. We are very much serious about the passing on circumstances, but we are not serious about the person who is going through the circumstances. This is the whole defect of modern civilization. And that is the beginning of real life. If we take care of the circumstances, that is being done by the cats and dogs and hogs, everyone. Where to find eatables, where to find sex, where to find shelter for sleeping, and how to defense—these circumstances are understood by the animals. There is no need of education. Just like this morning I pointed out.
Dr. Judah: Yes, that philosophy of Altheiser's, and Hamilton and some of the others, so-called "death of God theology," of course, was a phase through which Christianity went through but I think has lost its, certainly, its efficacy at the present time. I think it's probably had an effect certainly on some, but I would not say that is characteristic of Christian theology today. In fact, I see a swinging back to a more conservative position. And, of course, as far as the people are concerned, there is this need for an experiential relationship with God, which has gone through all of the churches and which is called the charismatic renewal, and this has been very influential in many of the churches.
Jayādvaita: But he was trying to say that because God is dead, now we have to revive our relationship with Christ. And then he equated that that everyone is, that means we have to have a relationship with all the human beings.
Dr. Judah: Yes. It is put on a, certainly, on a more humanistic scheme.
Jayādvaita: And now people want to know Kṛṣṇa.
Dr. Judah: Yes.
Revatīnandana: Did they actually seriously think that the Father was dead?
Dr. Judah: Yes. (break)
Prabhupāda: ...dead, then what kind of God he is?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is stated in the Bhāgavatam:
- vadanti tat tattva vidas
- tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam
- brahmeti paramātmeti
- bhagavān iti śabdyate
- (SB 1.2.11)
Human life is meant for understanding the tattva. Then the question will be what is that tattva or ultimate truth? And that is described. Tattva is realized in three phases: Brahman, impersonal Brahman; Paramātmā, localized Paramātmā; and Bhagavān.
Prof. Hopkins: So it's the mistake... The mistake of the impersonalist then is to identify the complete reality with Brahman, which is only one aspect of the complete reality.
Prabhupāda: Just like finger. Finger is one of the item of the whole body. You can't say, "Yes, the finger is my body," because the finger is not the whole body. Similarly, everything is part and parcel of the whole but that does not mean that everything is whole.
Prabhupāda: And purport?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Purport. "Kṛṣṇa and the Supreme Personality of Godhead are identical. Therefore Lord Kṛṣṇa is referred to as Bhagavān throughout the Gītā. Bhagavān is the ultimate in the Absolute Truth. Absolute Truth is realized in three phases of understanding, namely Brahman, or the impersonal, all-pervasive spirit; Paramātmā, or the localized aspect of the Supreme within the heart of all living entities; and Bhagavān, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Kṛṣṇa. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, this conception of the Absolute Truth is explained thus:
1976 Conversations and Morning Walks
Prabhupāda: Huh? Yes, I am a layman. Actually sun is moving, but they say fixed up.
Pañca-draviḍa: (break) ...moving the same, though, the moon would always appear full, and it goes through changes, or phases.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why it, the moon is...?
Jayapatākā: (break) They say that everything is moving. Both the earth is moving, sun is moving and the moon is moving, but everything has got its own time. Moon is moving once around in twenty-eight days, and our earth is moving around in 365 days, and sun is also moving in its own time.
Prabhupāda: But they say sun, fixed up.
Jayapatākā: No, they don't say fixed up.
Pañca-draviḍa: What?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Of the.... Everything revolving around the polestar, the constellations.
Gurudāsa: Are the moon's phases due to the planet Rāhu, Śrīla Prabhupāda?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Gurudāsa: Are the moon's phases due to the planet Rāhu?
Prabhupāda: Space?
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: The phases of the moon-quarter moon, half moon, full moon.
Gurudāsa: Waxing and the waning of the moon.
Prabhupāda: No.
Prabhupāda: You cannot do anything. There will be a third-class or poor class man, which you even want to help them, they'll not accept your help. That is another thing. These three phases.... I have seen in London, the British Empire, and the hippies, they are lying on the park, and the police kicking, "Hey, ut, ut," (laughter) But I mean to say, the nature is law, nature's law, that a richer class, middle class and a poorer class. That will continue.
Scheverman: Jesus said the poor you have always with you. But at the same time, he said we must go out and give what assistance we can as a Christian community.
Prabhupāda: That assistance means to.... First of all, a man is...
Prabhupāda: Everything has got divine purpose. This human form of life is given to us by laws of nature to understand what is God, what we are, what is our relationship with God, what is this material world, why you have come here, these things we have to know in this human form of life, and, if we like, we can know also. But instead of knowing these different phases of life, if we simply take care of this body like the animals, then we miss the opportunity. The animal is concerned to take the care of the body, that's all. If we simply remain taking care of this body, then we are animal. Sa eva go-kharaḥ (SB 10.84.13).
Svarūpa Dāmodara: Rūpānuga, we should also... What we've been thinking was at the beginning we would try to finish this book as part of the Institute's program, and plus that journal we discussed yesterday with Ravīndra Svarūpa as the, er... And that will be our initial phase, and our feeling is that, now, this Institute, at the beginning, some sort of research institute that we are doing right now, writing something, collecting some information from other sources. So some sort of... Looks to me like a research type... It is research oriented.
Rūpānuga: Until we finish the book and are able to establish a teaching situation. Right now our men are really concerned with finishing so we have some good propaganda.
Prabhupāda: No, one thing is, research means again that mental speculation.
Rūpānuga: We were not going to advertise ourselves as a research institute.
Prabhupāda: Research means that it is not known; you are trying to find out. But our, Kṛṣṇa's position is not. It is already known.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: And another aspect of the Institute at the beginning phase is that Your Divine Grace also instructed a few days ago that we also get some, try to give some lectures to colleges. We can present as members from the Bhaktivedanta Institute, the higher learning section of ISKCON. That can also be part of the... So we can go to colleges and universities. We don't have to go every month or so, but maybe once a month or twice a month.
Prabhupāda: Whenever there is opportunity.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: So we can, in the initial phase we can...
Prabhupāda: (aside:) So you can post this. Here.
Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: This one, Bhaktivedanta Institute. I have to go into town a little bit later to pick up these passports. They're not quite ready till two-thirty.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: We were also thinking that since Rūpānuga Prabhu is here in the Washington area but his participation is most important, so he's suggesting that the Institute, they house someone here in Washington.
Rūpānuga: It is also a good area for scientists. Already we have met...
Prabhupāda: That you make thing. That you will make from among yourselves.
Svarūpa Dāmodara: In this college program, when we went last time to Florida, Gainesville, Amarendra, our president of Gainesville temple...
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Others insist that the style of shaving the head identifies devotees of various spiritual orders. The long śikhās marks a man as a follower of Kṛṣṇa. Still another group says that the head-shaving simply stands for renunciation of the material world, its values and its pleasures. One or more of those reasons may be the true one. Possibly all of them have a multi-determined, have multi-determined the Kṛṣṇa cut. The how of the cut is simplicity itself. Commonly two men cut each others hair. Our pictures show how. Phase one of the cutting, known as the buzz-off, is done with ordinary..." (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Buzz off? (laughter)
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Yes. "...is done with ordinary hair clippers. The post buzz-off effect..." (laughter)
Prabhupāda: Yes, when you are practiced. Sleep means what you do when you are awakened, the same thing you'll dream, that's all. Physical, I've told you there are two phases of senses. Gross and subtle. When the gross senses are not working, the subtle senses work. Just like you dream, your mind is working. Although your hands and legs are taking rest, but mind is working. That is dreaming. So there are two phases of physical senses, gross and subtle. When the gross senses are stopped, the subtle senses continue to work. And when you are above even subtle senses, that is spiritual. Sometimes we misunderstand subtle senses are spiritual. No. Spiritual senses are different from the subtle stages.
Ali: These are the different stages.
Prabhupāda: This is a different phase of knowledge. By your material calculation it will be difficult. The same thing, Kṛṣṇa says, aśnāmi: "I eat." So Kṛṣṇa is far, far away. How does He eat?
Guest (2): It is said there that holy planets is the...
Prabhupāda: Who says? Who says? Who is the sayer? An imperfect person, that's all.
Guest (2): No, it is in the Bhāgavatam. That's what I am saying.
Prabhupāda: Oh, what is that?
Guest (2): That holy planets exist between the lotus stem that's sprouting from navel of Kṛṣṇa. But there are many planets, millions of planets...
Prabhupāda: Yes, yes. That is all explained there. Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ (Bs. 5.48). Yasyaika-niśvasita-kālam athāvalambya. The Mahā-Viṣṇu's breathing and with the breathing innumerable planets are coming, brahmāṇḍas are coming out. Yasya eka niśvasita-kālam atha avalambya jīvanti loma-vilajā jagad-aṇḍa-nāthāḥ. Jagad-aṇḍa means universe, and jagad-aṇḍa-nāthaḥ means Brahmā. Millions of Brahmās living within the breathing period of Mahā-Viṣṇu. So we have to accept this Vedic knowledge. You cannot compare with your limited knowledge. That is not...
| Page Title: | Phases (Conversations) |
| Compiler: | Visnu Murti, RupaManjari |
| Created: | 21 of Apr, 2012 |
| Totals by Section: | BG=0, SB=0, CC=0, OB=0, Lec=0, Con=25, Let=0 |
| No. of Quotes: | 25 |